WEBVTT - The Delightful History of Pubs 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:14.080 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:18.000 and there's Charles Depe, Chuck Bryant and Jerry's here. I'm 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:22.040 mute and this is stuff you should know. Good day. 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:31.200 Why are you doing in Australian greeting? There's pubs in Australia. Okay, okay, 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:35.600 fair enough, Okay. Did you uh had a really great 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.199 pub experience in Manchester? I know you told me about it. 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:42.640 Was it the one I can't remember the name of 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.479 it where Morrissey? What had his Heather the Smith's sad 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:48.800 that photo shoot? Or was that just in the same 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.680 story that probably the same story that was outside of 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:58.360 the Salford Lads Club, very famous photo. But I wandered 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:03.320 inside a gin you in old school, uh like basement 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:09.399 cask Ale pub in Manchester and it was great and 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:13.199 authentic and on such a lean like I've never seen 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:15.360 a floor of this slanted in my life. That wasn't 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:20.200 like a house of tricks. Oh, I remember that. And 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:23.200 then in the end of Greece, I don't know a 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:28.640 long time because you need a man, I don't remember that. 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:30.640 Did they go into a leaning house, yeah, I believe 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.720 they do, or a bounty house or really something like that. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:36.480 This one is so leany that you felt like if 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.040 you were in the front of the pub and put 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:44.039 your point on a table, it may actually slide. Wow. 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:46.720 It was really leaning. So the point of going to 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.280 this pub was to get so bent that everything straightened 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:52.320 out for you. I don't know. No, I had a 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.120 couple of beers. It was just great, and I just 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.040 I'm a sucker for for that kind of stuff, really 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.840 old places and having a beer in an old place. Yeah, 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.040 I love it, definitely. Yeah. I had a couple of 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:05.320 nice pub experiences too. I went to one I can't remember. 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:09.320 It was in Dublin, right down from the Guinness Factory, 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:11.640 and don't remember the name of it, but it was 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:17.239 super old, very it was a really old pub and um, 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:19.120 I wish I could remember the name, but shout out 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:23.079 to the that pub. I can't remember. But I'm with you, 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.680 and I think it's not just us who appreciate pubs 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.639 for their homeliness, Um and Chuck. I believe that what 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:34.080 you went to would be called a local, a traditional 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:39.600 independent English pub, a neighborhood pub, and um pub we 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.480 should say short for public house to the few people 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.679 who didn't know that, now you do. And these things 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:52.600 are so pubs are so um essential to England into Ireland, 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.640 as we'll find too that the essay is Hilaire Bellock 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:00.400 wrote that when you have lost your ins, mean pubs 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:04.000 for all intensive purposes, drown your empty selves, for you 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:08.720 have lost the last of England. I love it. Yeah, 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:15.200 So where do we get pubs from the Romans? Uh? Uh? 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.840 It is true, Um, before there was a United Kingdom 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.320 and there was Roman occupation. We're talking about forty three 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:24.960 to four ten CE. That was we talked a lot 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.480 about Roman roads and how their big network of roads 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.600 and that was one of their big accomplishments, linking places together. 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.640 And so along these routes they had what we're called 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.440 tavern a t a b E r in a e 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.880 what we know is taverns and it was what you think, 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.880 it's like a place where a traveler can stop, have 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:48.400 little food and and these establishments have wine. Yeah, because 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:53.800 the Romans were not so for wine pretty much wine 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:58.200 no forever right, So um, the way that you would 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.200 know what house to stop him, because this isn't a 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.160 time where they were, you know, designing shopping malls and 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:08.560 strip centers, like the tavern looked a lot like everybody 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.960 else's house, because it probably was somebody's house. But if 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.720 you were a new in town traveling along this Roman 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.440 road and you wanted to figure out which place was 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:21.280 the actual tavern, you would just look for, um, some 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:25.480 grape vines hanging over the door. That was the basically 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:29.280 the universal symbol among Roman occupied areas for a tavern. 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.280 But when they pushed further and further west, when they 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.320 got to England and occupied it, they said, well, there's 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.400 not that many grape vines here, what else can we 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:43.480 we use them? They started using bushes, right. Uh. And 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:45.760 you know, we'll talk a little bit all over the 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.040 place about the interesting pub names, because that's kind of 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.920 one of the fun things about pubs is their interesting names. Uh. 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.120 And if you see pubs name the bush or the 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.200 bull and the bush or the holly bush, Uh, it's 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.279 sort of thrown back to this old tradition where they 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:01.919 would hang stuff above the door to let you know, 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.960 come on in and have a drink. Right, pretty great, 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.720 That's it's kind of what all pub lore circles back 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:13.920 to is how awesome their names are? So what happened 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.039 to the Romans? Chuck? Did they stick around? And is 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:20.560 there a Roman president of the UK today? No, they 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.800 left and the Anglo Saxons took over and they liked 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.880 to drink ale. Yeah, they said to this wine stuff. 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:30.600 We were just pretending all this time to like wine 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.760 while the Romans were here. We actually like ale. And 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.520 the Anglo Saxons I didn't realize this. I was like, okay, 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.080 what's the difference between the Anglo Saxons and the Normans 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:44.400 and the Vikings? And apparently there's plenty of differences. The Normans, 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.640 I guess, came up to conquer Um and I think 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.720 ten sixties six from the south from France, but they 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:56.080 originally still were Germanic Um they were they I think 0:05:56.080 --> 0:06:00.760 they had some Norse people mixed in. So like I said, okay, 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.320 well who who you who lived in England originally? And 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:08.120 apparently it was the Celtic Britons. Okay, so this is 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.039 this is the first group that came in after the Romans. 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:15.720 The Romans came and conquered the Celtic Britons. They left 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.440 and I don't think I'm saying that right, because they like, 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.320 I have a tick or something like that. Um and 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.640 uh they were so. Then the Romans subsequently left and 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.919 the Anglo Saxons came in and replaced them. And the 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.039 Anglo Saxons were the ones who said, let's all start 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:35.000 drinking some ale. That's right, and aile is not beer. 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:39.160 Ale didn't have hops, which is the big differentiator there. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:42.520 Hops would come along later. Uh, and people still like 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.560 that ale. But people also liked the beer for sure. 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.200 I think it was the Dutch who said, hey, you 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.880 should try these hops, man, they'll knock your socks off. 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:56.560 And when they did in the fifteenth century, Um, the 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:00.360 Britons said, well, let's let's do this where kay with 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.719 alef or We're okay with hops from now on, we're 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:04.960 like beer. They said, it did knock my socks off 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:09.000 because I'm wear shot garters. Right. But they loved Ale 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.360 so much that it was like a part of their 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.680 like like their meals. Whenever they drank something, they usually 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:21.120 drank ale. Um. And I think we talked about this 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:25.960 in the beer episode. I don't remember bars maybe maybe, 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:31.760 but if you were a housewife, housewife, um, you were 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:35.000 probably in charge of making ale for your family. And 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.760 if you were really good at making ale, the town 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:40.840 might know about it, and they might come and try 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.360 to buy some of your excess ale, and you might 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.040 end up supplying ale to thirsty travelers who passed through, 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.640 and the next thing you know, you're running what's known 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.720 as the ale house. That's right. They were called ale 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.480 wives or brewsters. And if you want to indicate, like 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.760 the Romans hung the grapevines and bushes and things above 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.760 the air door. Uh, they would have an ale steak 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:05.680 or an ale pole, which sort of from this drawing 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.960 Dave sent Dave Russ helped us with this. Uh, you 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.440 just give Dave a wou sure. Uh, it looks sort 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.720 of like a witch's broom. It was a big stick 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.560 with branches tied to the end and they would hang 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:21.440 it out a window or above the doorway like a 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.040 flagpole over the doorway, kind of sticking out of the house. 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.240 And that meant come on end and have a drink. Yeah, 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.120 and you you would like that like this is it 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.520 was really important to the Anglo Saxons and other subsequent 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.600 groups that kind of came over and took over England 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:43.840 to say like like the hospitality is really really important, um, 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.240 And they actually started to kind of regulate it a 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.600 little bit in part because ale houses became so popular 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.320 that they're like, this is something we can tax, but 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.760 also we don't want um any kind of social issues 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.680 arising from this. So I think it was King Edward 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.960 the Peaceful Um who started path saying like the first 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:06.040 uh laws that regulated drinking establishments in England. Yeah, and 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.800 he said, hey, how about one of these in every 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:13.240 town or village And he said and everyone went, okay, 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:15.520 I guess we can live with that, but I don't 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.360 think but I don't think it was just too limited. 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.040 I think it was also to make sure that there 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:21.400 was at least one in every town, that every town 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:23.520 had one to like, there were probably towns that didn't 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.040 have and they're like, you need to get on the trolley. Yeah, 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.680 some people are probably like hooray. And then towns that 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.559 had more than one went okay, yeah, we gotta flip 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.400 a coin. Yeah exactly. Uh. And then he also moved 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.439 on to say and maybe we shouldn't drink as much 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:43.400 as people and everyone went way at a minute, like 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.560 we've been drinking ale for breakfast literally, uh. And he said, 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.080 how about this thing. It's called a peg tankard, and 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.200 it's a it's a big like two lead uh drinking 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.520 vessel that has these pegs, vertical pegs and you're only 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.200 allowed to drink down to the next peg, and then 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.400 you gotta pass it along to your friend and then 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.480 they can drink down to the next bag. And if 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:07.079 you drink past your peg, then your tax too. Penny. Yeah, 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.440 it was a super hygienic setup. Yeah, and two leaders, 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.400 I mean that's not that much. Well, I don't mean 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.440 for like per person, but like they think about it, 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.520 two leaders or soda? How many people were sharing that? Sure? Sure, 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.880 I mean like you know too, three four? All right, 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:30.160 so a leaders thirty two ounces? Yeah, so it's about 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:35.679 two points no points sixteen ounces? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.880 So yeah, it was about two points. No, I'm thinking 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:42.520 of a court. I think a court and a leader 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.679 are pretty close. Regardless, you're right, it's not that much. 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:51.480 It's a couple of forties. Man, oh man, I've had 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:56.720 a forty since college. It's been a while. Sat Id's 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.600 I had sat Id's at least's been says that great 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:05.240 song st Iights Heaven um My jam was not forties, 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:06.640 but I would for a little while in college I 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.599 would drink schlitz or And I know I mentioned this 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.400 before the Mickey's big mouth. Yeah sure, but I can't 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:18.120 imagine drinking that swill. Now, That's what I was gonna say. 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:21.000 Even at the time, st IDs was terrible stuff. Yeah, 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.800 I never understood. Even among the malt liquors that came 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:29.360 in bottles, IDs was gross. What was the eight ball? 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:33.439 Old English? Old English? Yes, I think that may have 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:37.840 been tied with st Nights. It was all pretty gross. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.520 The early drinking days are just nothing to be proud of. No, 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.079 it's like you call this orange juice, you call this 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:51.080 a cape cod right. Uh, but now we're more refined 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.360 in our old age, and we drink very tasteful small cocktails. Sure, 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:57.920 forty ounces at a time. I've actually dialed it back 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:03.520 to almost nothing these days. Uh yeah, get better sleep, yeah, 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.440 and better next days. Really, but yeah, better sleep too. 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:08.800 That's where the next days. To me. That's why I 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.320 was just like, this is not this is not okay. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.680 it's good as you get older that you gotta gotta 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.679 dial that back. Didn't you say you don't get affected 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:21.600 by it very much like hangovers. Yeah, I don't really 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.360 get that hungover, and if I do, then I willingly 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.920 wade into those waters. Oh I see, you know, like 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.320 I know what's coming and I'm like, you just one 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.240 one of those nights. But yeah, those are few and 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:34.920 far between these days. You schedule a blood transfusion for 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:39.120 the next morning, No, no, no, uh? Should we take 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.199 a break? Yeah, let's take a break and then we'll 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:43.920 go to the Emerald Aisle right after this. All right, 0:12:43.960 --> 0:13:05.959 let's do it. Are we in Ireland? We are in 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:11.319 Ireland here, yep. Um. So they had their own kind 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.080 of pub culture, despite the fact that the Anglo Saxons 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.880 never made it into Ireland, which I didn't realize. Um, 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:22.200 but they they devised their own kind of um system 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.439 of hospitality as well. Like the Anglo Saxons to that said, Hey, 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:27.800 if you've got people coming around your town, you need 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:29.559 to make sure that you can take care of them. 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.599 That's right. And what is the law pronounced? How is 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.439 it pronounced? Bron okay b r e h o N. 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:40.360 Is that what you're gonna go with? R Briton. I'm 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:44.160 sure we're pronouncing that wrong, but that was sort of 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.200 the system of like legal hospitality that you were talking 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:53.280 about from originally from the sixth century. Uh, and you 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:55.360 know it was it was a lot. It comes a lot, 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.760 but it definitely put a lot of emphasis on hospitality 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.679 and kind of like in England they said, hey, uh, 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.959 every town has to have a hostel, which is also 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.720 sort of code for pub but you could spend the night. 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.720 I guess, um, yeah, but this is like I didn't 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:15.679 quite understand this. It said I had to be located 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:20.040 at the main crossroads with four doors open in each direction. 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:24.720 Is that symbolic or did they literally mean like, uh, 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:26.760 don't make them walk around the corner to get in. 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.240 I don't know, and I really don't. Maybe travelers were 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.240 generally dumber than they are today back then, I'm not sure. 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.400 But they could only move in straight lines, That's what 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:39.480 I said, right. But Um, Additionally, under the law, you 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:43.160 had to have and you couldn't have an empty cauldron. 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:45.880 It always had to be ready to go with ale. 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.520 You had to have on hand raw meats and cooked 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.000 meats ready to serve, also animals ready to slaughter, and 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.760 that any time traveler showed up twenty four hours a 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.920 day you had to serve them. That was just the hospital. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.640 It was that emphasized. It was almost like the local 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:05.120 Chamber of Commerce was in charge of writing the laws 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:13.320 for them. Law. I love it. Yeah. Like Backstreet? What's 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.160 what was that? Remember that club Backstreet that was open 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.720 twenty four hours and in Atlanta, right, that was the 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.480 late night place. Yes, but it was like open twenty 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.840 four hours for real. Yeah. And I didn't go there much. 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.840 I didn't. I mean I was I was not living 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.520 in Atlanta during its heyday. This is what I mean 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.120 to say. I got you that was all about backstreets. 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.560 I just didn't live there, I see. Uh. So in 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:41.000 England we're kind of marching forward through time. I think 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.360 it was between thirteen and sixteen hundred. This is when 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.680 things kind of made the shift over those few hundred years, 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:52.000 from someone's home where the lady made great ale, uh 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.520 to an official like licensed what we would call a 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.280 pub today. Um. I still don't think they were called 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.680 public houses at the point, right, No, not until the 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.600 Victorian era in the I think the late nineteenth century, 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.200 all right, but they were actually licensing places in the 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:11.200 fifteen hundreds. Uh. And they made a distinction between the 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.160 three different kinds of places where you could serve booze. 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.080 The ale house, which we talked about, Uh, you could 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.240 only sell ale and beer though. Then you had your 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.640 taverns which also sold liquor and wine and food, and 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.080 then the end where you could spend the night. Yeah. 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.440 And one other really big shift that took place during 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:33.520 that time from ale houses to common brewers with licenses 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.320 was that the licenses were given to men, So the 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:42.040 custom of making ale and eventually beer moved from women 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:47.640 to men exclusively. Basically it was taken out of women's hands. Yeah, 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:49.680 and it feels like an industry that's still very much 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.600 male dominated, uh, as is the wine industry. But I 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.720 know there's a lot of support behind female brewers and 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.560 the wine makers these days, so that's always a good 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.680 thing to seek out. Yeah, well there should be. But 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:08.000 there were a lot of pubs per person back then. 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.960 Uh there's a census from fifteen fifty seven that basically 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:17.199 showed that there was one licensed pub for every one 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.879 hundred and eighty seven people, whereas it's about one for 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.359 every six and fifty seven people today, Which I mean 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.639 if you've been to England anytime recently, like there are 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.800 a lot of pubs there. Yeah, so to imagine there 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.080 were that many more back then or that fewer people, 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.560 I guess is probably the likelier thing. The same amount 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.520 of pubs, just a lot of fewer people. Yeah. I 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.680 always love working out dumb stuff in my head live 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.639 on our episodes. But there's a good example of it. Uh, 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.200 we had a great episode on gin. I didn't think 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.080 that was done by the way. It doesn't matter. It's 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.159 a combination of both. I think, Uh, more pubs in 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.080 fewer people. I appreciate you. You're being very magnanimous on 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.080 your birthday. Uh, jin that we had a great episode 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.280 on gin um. But if you remember from that episode, 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:08.000 in the seventeen hundreds, jin became a very sort of 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.440 evil liquor and there were moves to ban it and 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.200 limit gin drinking. But while this was going on, beer 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:17.600 was on the rise, and and England was all in 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.399 on beer, basically saying like we're not saying don't drink, 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.720 we're saying gin is bad and that ale and beer 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.920 is really good. Yeah, they definitely accepted it from their 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.840 ire um and there was a there was a really 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.520 good um. I guess the political cartoon it was to 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.960 two different panels in it that was produced in the 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:41.119 eighteenth century by William Hogarth. I think it came out 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:45.399 in se And on one side is Beer Street on 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.800 the left side. On the right side is a very 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.960 similar picture, but it's on Jin Lane. And if you 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.040 look into what's going on in those pictures, they're very 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:59.280 two very different pictures, Um and Jin Lane. It's basically 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:03.560 like just has been ravaged by gin. There's a mother 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:08.399 who's like stop. Her child is toppling over a wall 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.359 where it had just been breastfeeding because her mom is 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.080 now like trying to figure out how to buy some gin. 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.920 There's some children, um fighting over a dog or fighting 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.760 over a bone with a dog. Um. I think a 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:25.480 tradesman is pawning his his tools all for gin. And 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.040 then if you go over to Beer Street, it's a 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:31.399 different different picture altogether. For sure. Yeah, everything's happening on 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.760 Beer Street. People are working hard, they look good, they're 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:39.080 making art, and they're drinking beer. But what's funny is 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.440 if you look closely on the Beer Street too, there's 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:46.120 stuff that's there's there's a there's it's struggling a little 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.560 bit too. There's like boards over one window. Um, people 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.280 are definitely crocked. It's just hilarious that they didn't try 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:56.600 to make it like perfectly perfect. Like there's still like 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:00.239 just some some freight edges around there on Beer Street too. 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.359 I thought that was kind of funny. And then the 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:08.400 third panel was Weed Avenue. Nothing bad was happening there. 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.359 Everybody's just kind of sitting around. Yeah, there's a lot 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:19.920 of PlayStation happening. I forgot what people do what when 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.760 they spoke pot I can't even come up with a 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:28.200 decent joke here. Well, let's move to the Victorian area, 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.040 the era and area, because that is when we finally 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.280 get our name the public house, And this is when 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:39.359 things really sort of as as did much in the 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.840 Victorian area. Man, why do we keep saying that the 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.800 Victorian era took on a shine and a fanciness and 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.520 these places became pretty swank. Yeah, because while Gin was 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.760 vilified and run out of town in the middle of 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:57.080 the eighteenth century, by the middle of the nineteenth century 0:20:57.359 --> 0:20:59.879 it had come back, Remember in a different form. Originally 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.520 was Dutch Gin and then London Dry Gin made its 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:06.520 its mark in the nineteenth century. And everybody's like, oh, well, 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.760 this is fine, we're making it here. And we liked 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.920 jin again. And so they built Jim palaces starting in 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.919 the eighteen forties and they were very very nice. They 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:17.880 had like marble bars and they were just really well 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:23.200 decked out. And um, the pubs started kind of replicating 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:27.399 that vibe when they were being built or remodeled or whatever. 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:31.480 And so pubs started to add like bars. Apparently they 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:33.400 didn't have bars before. I guess it was just all 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:37.240 comfortable chairs and like many tables and yeah. Um, and 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:41.760 so they added bars at this era as well. Pretty awesome. Uh. 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.520 In Ireland, you know, if we're again going chronologically around 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:49.960 this time, Um, they had some interesting like the pubs 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:52.200 over there, and I think this is true to a 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.359 certain degree in England too, but they were there were 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:57.359 more than just the place to go drink. It was 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:02.520 sort of the center for public course and activity. Uh. 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:06.119 Some of them operated other businesses, like some um acted 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.320 as banks during the daytime or post offices. Uh. And 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:11.680 then there was the Coroners Act of eighteen forty six 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:18.199 that basically said pubs have these great cool sellers and uh, 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.240 that's where dead body should be taken in our village 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:25.600 to be stored until the funeral, because every pub has 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:28.280 got a very cool basement, and that wasn't just the 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:30.720 most common thing at the time and home. So the 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.960 Corners Act of eighteen forty six, I think, demanded that 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:37.040 a dead body was brought to the nearest pub. Yeah, 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:43.320 and some publicans, people who own and operate pubs, um said, okay, 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:44.960 I can make some money doing that, and they started 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:48.960 installing like marble bars in the basement the sellers of 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:53.000 their pubs to better accommodate corpses and cadavers that came 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.240 their way. So they became undertakers as well. And it 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:59.119 makes me wonder like how many how many Irish pubs 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:02.280 have these marble slabs that the corpses used to be 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.080 laid out on still today, I would love to see that. 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:07.720 That would I can imagine going in for to a 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:09.760 pub for a pint and and end up getting a 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:14.000 tour like that. Yeah, that'd be really cool. Like you 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:19.919 suddenly woke up on Weed Street, Weed Avenue, dang uh 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:22.120 and then what about this other thing? This was really cool? 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:25.520 I think I love it when someone creates a drinking 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:30.240 law that also has a tremendous gaping loophole for people 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:32.920 to jump through. Uh, And that was the case in 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:36.960 eighteen in the eighteen seventies in Ireland, to kind of 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:40.359 tame down the pub scene, they said, all right, you 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:44.320 gotta close before midnight and you can only go to 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:48.400 these pubs um at any hour if you're what's called 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:52.200 a bona fide traveler, which means that you have traveled 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:56.240