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Speaker 1: Today's episode of No Dunks is presented by the Salvation Army.

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Speaker 1: Your donations can help those affected by COVID nineteen find

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Speaker 1: help and hope to give. Ask your smart speaker to

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Speaker 1: make a donation to the Salvation Army or make your

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Speaker 1: gift at Salvation ARMYUSA dot org. Good morning, sweet world,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the No Dunks podcast on the Athletic Network.

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Speaker 1: It's Monday, April twentieth, and we're here to recap the

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Speaker 1: first two episodes of ESPN's ten part documentary The Last Dance.

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Speaker 2: I'm G.

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Speaker 1: Skeetz and joining us here on.

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Speaker 3: The horn from North Mississauga.

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Speaker 1: Cass Mellis. I don't know if that's true, TAPLESO.

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Speaker 3: Nah, North wasn't too cool. I'm from that south side,

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Speaker 3: Big White Sox and Ice Dogs fan.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we also got the Bearded one, Trey Kirby. Hey,

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Speaker 1: hey yo yo, the international man of mystery taking it

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Speaker 1: to the max Leelis friends, last, but not least, making

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Speaker 1: this magic happen here on a Monday. JD.

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Speaker 2: Hello, it's up.

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Speaker 4: JD. Well.

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Speaker 1: That was a little more enjoyable than NBA Horse. You

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Speaker 1: could start there for those of you living under a

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Speaker 1: rock the Last Dance. It's chronicling Michael Jordan and the

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Speaker 1: ninety seven ninety eight Chicago Bulls Championship run. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to make that clear because I was hoping someone out

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Speaker 1: there thought that this was a new film session podcast

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Speaker 1: and then we were dissecting Save the Last Dance, the

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Speaker 1: twenty and one teen drama featuring Julius Styles.

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Speaker 4: Not a bad idea having some one Maybe.

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Speaker 1: Down the road we'll get to that. No, this is

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Speaker 1: the Last Dance, MJ and the Bulls Again, ten part documentary.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the first two episodes, which premiered on

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Speaker 1: Sunday Night. Will tackle each episode, you know, one at

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Speaker 1: a time if we can. I know there'll be some

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Speaker 1: bleeding between the two. But this was awesome and these

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Speaker 1: two episodes really covering sort of the rise of the

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Speaker 1: Bulls dynasty along with that disintegrating relationship between the team

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Speaker 1: and the front office. But how hyped were you guys

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Speaker 1: on Sunday leading up there? And did episode one live

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Speaker 1: up to that hype? Because Twitter was going insane? What

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Speaker 1: did you think tasks will just start with you did

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Speaker 1: to live.

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Speaker 3: Up to the hype? There was a lot of hype.

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Speaker 3: I'll say that first and foremost. But yeah, it's a

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Speaker 3: great setup for what will lead to be these next

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Speaker 3: eight episodes where we will see the drama. I think

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Speaker 3: we're gonna see a ton more of the Pip and

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Speaker 3: krous Pip in Front Office fallout. I don't want to

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Speaker 3: call it the best sports documentary quite yet, because we

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Speaker 3: still have eight episodes left, and I imagine there's going

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Speaker 3: to be a Michael Jordan documentary which will document the

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Speaker 3: first few years of his the championships and the gambling

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Speaker 3: and his father passing and all that, So maybe that

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Speaker 3: will be the best sports stock But I think we're

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Speaker 3: in a great place right now after these first two episodes. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I lived up to.

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Speaker 1: The hype, Trey you. I got a photo sent I

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Speaker 1: think it was your wife Senate to me and Nora

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Speaker 1: of you rocking full on Bulls gear. So you were

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Speaker 1: obviously into this as a Bulls fan growing up.

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Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, Skeates, it was ridiculous.

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Speaker 5: I was feeling sick to my stomach all day with

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Speaker 5: nerves and anxiety. It felt like the Bulls were gonna

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Speaker 5: be tipping off Game seven of the Finals on Sunday night,

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Speaker 5: and then once it started It's like, you know, I

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Speaker 5: had on my warm up shirt over my full uniform,

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Speaker 5: so I had to pull the warm up shirt off

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Speaker 5: to actually start celebrating. Once they started winning all those titles,

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Speaker 5: I was getting hype. Man, it was it was awesome.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's basically two hours of setting the scene

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Speaker 5: is what I felt like. But I was happy to

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Speaker 5: have that scene reset for me, that's for sure. It

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Speaker 5: was like watching an adult version of all of those

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Speaker 5: you know, like home videos basically that you had like

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Speaker 5: a come fly with Me or his Airness whatever whatever

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Speaker 5: the Jordan Docks were called back in the days, or

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Speaker 5: the you know, the home video little propaganda things. This

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Speaker 5: felt like the version made for a thirty year old

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Speaker 5: rather than made for a thirteen year old.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Lee, you're always talking about how you wish you had

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Speaker 1: your Wendel Survivor buff while watching Survivor. So when we

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Speaker 1: did our recaps, did you have on, you know, any

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Speaker 1: MG paraphernalia or Bulls parafernealia last night?

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Speaker 2: No, I wasn't wearing anything, but yesterday throughout the day,

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Speaker 2: I was definitely going through all the old sort of

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Speaker 2: posters and magazines and little clips and things like that

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Speaker 2: that I've gotten and I've collected over the years, and

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Speaker 2: you know, some of it was on our set there

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Speaker 2: in the studio, and just it was like going into

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Speaker 2: time machine last night, you know, at nine o'clock, I

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Speaker 2: was just like, Wow, we're actually going back to see

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Speaker 2: Michael Jordan in his prime again. You know, like because

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Speaker 2: in the last few years when we see Jordan, he's

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Speaker 2: the retired owner of the Charlotte Hornets. You know, he's

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Speaker 2: not the sort of guy that who took the league

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Speaker 2: and catapulted it to this global level. So to see him,

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Speaker 2: to see the balls in that challenge, in that situation

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Speaker 2: and facing all those circumstances, you know Trey mentioned there

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Speaker 2: set the scene. It sure did for me because even

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Speaker 2: though we know the outcome, we know how this ends.

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Speaker 2: This is not a movie. We know that we know

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Speaker 2: the final scene here is going to be triumphant, but

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Speaker 2: it still feels to me like, I'm not sure if

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Speaker 2: that is going to happen. Like I love the sort

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Speaker 2: of tension and the drama that we're already seeing in

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Speaker 2: these first two episodes, because you're like, Wow, they're facing

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Speaker 2: some internal strife here as much as they're facing like

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Speaker 2: the challenge of trying to win another championship. So I thought,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was captivated.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It was two hours of course, the two episodes an

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Speaker 2: hour along each, and it was one of those ones

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Speaker 2: where you know sometimes when you're watching a movie and

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh my god, it's over already. Like it

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Speaker 2: felt like it just blew past me in no time

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Speaker 2: at all, Like I was just really caught up in it, so.

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Speaker 1: Like you could have watched all ten hours last well.

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Speaker 2: So that's the funny thing, you guys. Know, I don't

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Speaker 2: really watch a lot of TV, so I don't go

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Speaker 2: through binge watching series. The only time I've done it

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Speaker 2: is Cobra Kai. But I definitely, I definitely. Now I'm like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, I've got to wait another month before

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Speaker 2: I see episode ten. There's no question. If I could

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Speaker 2: have i'd be halfway through this series easily by now.

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Speaker 2: I would have just been watching it all last night

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Speaker 2: and then probably save a few for today. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: very very strong start, I thought, very captivating and immediately

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Speaker 2: has drawn me in, you know, and now I'm a

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Speaker 2: basketball fan of course, but I feel like I just

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Speaker 2: can't wait now for episode three.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you Tassel story with you. How much

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Speaker 1: do you remember of this specific season with the balls

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Speaker 1: and really like that again that strafe heading into the

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Speaker 1: final year, you know, trying to go for number six,

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Speaker 1: this idea, this whole thing with pippin versus the front

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Speaker 1: office and just you know, Jordan hating them. Like what

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Speaker 1: do you remember this? I mean we were you know what,

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Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen eighteen. I actually don't remember the details all

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Speaker 1: that well, I'm curious if you do.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't remember the details though though were Yeah,

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Speaker 3: just remember you know, more of the bare bones Scottie,

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Speaker 3: Pipman angry and not very happy with being the one

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Speaker 3: hundred and twenty second highest player paid player in the

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Speaker 3: ninety seven to ninety eight season. That's basically about it.

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Speaker 3: And I just remember that that Big Bulls logo everywhere,

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Speaker 3: that Big Bull just seeing it everywhere. See that footage

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Speaker 3: was awesome of him being in mj being in Paris

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Speaker 3: walking around with the beret and the Big Bulls warm up.

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Speaker 4: So that was one of my favorite lines of the night.

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Speaker 5: Stern when he just said, you know, Michael, I think

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Speaker 5: was wearing a beret because he's Michael, just striding through

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Speaker 5: Paris wearing a beret in a full bulls warm up too,

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Speaker 5: that that was awesome. But yeah, I mean for me,

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Speaker 5: I do remember most.

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Speaker 4: Of these details there.

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Speaker 5: If you've read Playing for Keeps by David Halberstam, an

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Speaker 5: incredible book, and that's where you're getting a lot of

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Speaker 5: this final season stuff. And then MJ of course ditches

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Speaker 5: him to write his own book at the very end there.

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Speaker 5: But that's the difference will be once we get further

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Speaker 5: and further than into this documentary. When you read about it,

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Speaker 5: they say Michael is berating players, But now we're going

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Speaker 5: to see what braiding is really like. There were just

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Speaker 5: a couple of tastes of it last night, but I

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Speaker 5: think those are even those little nuggets. I feel like

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Speaker 5: our scene setter is like, if this is what we're

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Speaker 5: going to show you in the first episode.

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Speaker 4: Imagine what it's going to be like in number six

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Speaker 4: or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the hope, I think. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And when he was yelling at a couple of his teammates,

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Speaker 3: he was basically the same message for Ron Harper, what

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Speaker 3: the hell are you waiting for? Tony Kuk coach? Come on, man,

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Speaker 3: what are you waiting for? I thought the creators of

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Speaker 3: a doc could have inserted as soon as he said

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Speaker 3: it to Ron said it to co coach, what are

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Speaker 3: you waiting for? Quick? What the hell are you waiting for?

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Speaker 3: Could have used that in there, but hey, it's an

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Speaker 3: editor's choice. Tough choice.

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Speaker 2: JD.

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Speaker 1: What did you think. Did you get a chance to

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Speaker 1: watch one or two last night?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: Well I watched it this morning.

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Speaker 4: Actually, okay, it was great.

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Speaker 6: I love watching sports like this. It's full of drama,

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Speaker 6: it's cinematic. Yeah, speaking of beraiding, my favorite part of

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Speaker 6: the Paris part was the audio guy get berated for

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Speaker 6: an hour. Yes, yes, yes, yes, rate that guy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because m J didn't say a thing.

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Speaker 2: Deal, yeah he was. He wasn't expecting it at all,

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Speaker 2: and then he just sort of looked around for someone

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Speaker 2: to come in and say, get this ashole out of here,

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Speaker 2: like what the hell is going on?

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Speaker 3: Or common with the little story side story there that

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Speaker 3: he fake signed in autograph for a fan when he

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Speaker 3: was a ball boy with Michael Jordan's signature that he

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Speaker 3: spelled Michael wrong, which when I was younger, I always

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Speaker 3: went m I C H E A L for all

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Speaker 3: Michaels as well. So maybe that was the spelling mistake out.

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Speaker 1: That's probably what Common did as well. I think you're

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Speaker 1: right it was.

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Speaker 3: It's a common spelling mistake.

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Speaker 1: It was cool that they could use this the Bulls

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Speaker 1: traveling to the preseason and doing this Paris with whatever

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Speaker 1: McDonald's game or whatever to set the scene of like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, this team and m specifically, I mean, they

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Speaker 1: were rock stars, like just like and watching this whole

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Speaker 1: thing these last two episodes, the first two episodes, I

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Speaker 1: kept thinking like, like you, like all of us really

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Speaker 1: are like reliving it to some degree, like Trey obviously

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Speaker 1: in the Chicago area US. This is exactly when you

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Speaker 1: know around what ninety three ninety four is when I

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Speaker 1: really really, really truly became an NBA fan, and mainly

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Speaker 1: because of the Bold, mainly because of MJ. But there

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Speaker 1: are so many people watching this, younger people that didn't

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Speaker 1: really experience any of this or maybe even had an

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Speaker 1: idea of like, oh my god, they were like the Beatles.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know they've seen MJ clips and they

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Speaker 1: knew the Balls won a bunch of titles, but this

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Speaker 1: is new to a lot of people, which is sort

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Speaker 1: of fascinating to wrap my head around.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Yeah, I do for sure,

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Speaker 2: because you're right. I mean a lot of basketball fans,

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Speaker 2: now do you think of someone like Bradley Beale who said,

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Speaker 2: when he grew up, you know, Lebron was the guy

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Speaker 2: that he sort of idolized. So even for NBA players,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the young guys, you know, they weren't

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Speaker 2: even born when Jordan was, you know, a star player,

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Speaker 2: and so for them, this will be a really insightful

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Speaker 2: look back at just how not how good just the

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Speaker 2: Bulls and Jordan were at the time, but just how

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Speaker 2: impactfully they were around the globe before social media as well,

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Speaker 2: you know, like everywhere, Like they go to Paris and

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Speaker 2: they were just the hottest ticket in town and we

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Speaker 2: saw people freaking out, you know, on the street, young kids,

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Speaker 2: young girls and boys like just absolutely you know, gobsmacked

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Speaker 2: to be able to see Michael Jordan in their city.

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Speaker 2: So it's going to really, I think, provide some historical

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Speaker 2: context for a lot of people who who only sort

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Speaker 2: of know the league from the Lebron years in these

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Speaker 2: last few years, because again that's where so much of

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Speaker 2: it is played out on social media, and I think

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Speaker 2: that I think that's great for the leak, you know,

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Speaker 2: and it's going to be great for Jordan's legacy, not

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Speaker 2: that he necessarily needs it, but you know that's what

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Speaker 2: you're saying.

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Speaker 5: Probably not a coincidence that he green lit the documentary.

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Speaker 4: The Day Lebron Warriors.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that was interesting. I did see that as well,

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Speaker 2: So you know, that's it Jordan, and you know he

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Speaker 2: likes to he doesn't want to get sort of lost

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Speaker 2: in the shuffle of old players. I mean, you know

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Speaker 2: for us guys, for us older guys, that won't be

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Speaker 2: the case, but certainly you can see that. You know,

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Speaker 2: younger kids growing up, they only really want to know

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Speaker 2: what has existed during their own lifetime. You know, that's

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Speaker 2: just the way sort of nature is. So yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: it's it's great. I mean, it's it's so good because

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Speaker 2: if this was played out in the summer, I just

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Speaker 2: wonder if it would have been as hyped up and

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Speaker 2: we would have all been as excited for it as

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Speaker 2: we are right now because there's no basketball. I mean probably,

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Speaker 2: but I think it certainly helps that there's just no

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Speaker 2: basketball on right now. So we take this trip down

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Speaker 2: memory lane, and that's one of the most awesome lanes

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Speaker 2: you can possibly go down. Yeah, it's like, yeah, exactly, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I love the Paaris stuff because you just get to

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Speaker 3: hear so many accents. I mean, it's hard not to

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Speaker 3: think of Barcelona in n eighty two and the Dream

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Speaker 3: Team when they're over there, and some guys like John

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Speaker 3: Stark Stockton can go incognito, but basically everybody is swarming

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Speaker 3: everybody and you hear that, well, it's Michael Jordan. It's

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Speaker 3: Michael Jordan, and you just hear those great accents of

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Speaker 3: people who are just clamoring to see him. Hey, what

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Speaker 3: are your thoughts on the Eiffel Tower stuff like that. Oh,

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Speaker 3: it's a blast.

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Speaker 1: What Trey was the biggest takeaway from the first episode

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Speaker 1: for you?

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Speaker 5: From this one, to me, the biggest takeaway is that

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Speaker 5: everything everybody ever says about Michael Jordan is one hundred

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Speaker 5: percent true. It feels like living through it. When it happened,

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Speaker 5: I felt like the Bulls would never lose a game.

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Speaker 5: And then I watched this last night, and it felt

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Speaker 5: like the Bulls never lost a game, despite the fact

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Speaker 5: that I'm seeing scores where they lost. It seemed like

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Speaker 5: any time their back was up against the wall, Jordan

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Speaker 5: would show up and just do something amazing. I thought

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Speaker 5: that quote quote from Roy Williams was incredible. He's the

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Speaker 5: only guy that can turn it on and off, and

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Speaker 5: he freaking never turns it off. I thought that was

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Speaker 5: just awesome, And that to me is kind of like

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Speaker 5: the dictionary definition of Michael Jordan.

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Speaker 4: He's the best there is and he's trying the hardest

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Speaker 4: there is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's cool that, Like I love how they're the

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Speaker 1: you know, the filmmakers. They've decided to do this jumping

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Speaker 1: around like of of like of chronological order simultaneously. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're in the ninety seven ninety eight season here and

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Speaker 1: all the drama surrounding that. But yeah, we're gonna tell

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Speaker 1: you about how MJ even got to the Bulls and

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Speaker 1: then of course later on in episode two with you know,

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Speaker 1: how Piven gets there and MJ with his broken foot

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Speaker 1: and all that. I think it's so cool And for me,

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Speaker 1: that is really like I'm really geeking out on that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Like the college stuff was fascinating to me because that

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Speaker 1: really is truly before my time and really anybody's time

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Speaker 1: except Lee Ellis who lived it. But yeah, like that's

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Speaker 1: so so cool. It's like you know the story. You know,

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Speaker 1: he hits the shot for un see. You know, he

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Speaker 1: became pretty quickly maybe the best player on the team,

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Speaker 1: even though James Worthy was there for crying out loud

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Speaker 1: and other players like Sam Perkins. But to see it

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Speaker 1: and like you're, oh my god. Yeah, they were in

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Speaker 1: the Superdome, like I had forgotten that. I forgot they

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Speaker 1: were playing in front of sixty thousand people against Georgetown's.

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Speaker 1: Like this stuff is just crack for me. It's like

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Speaker 1: a I'm a part of the old bulls. I'm doing

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Speaker 1: I'm in the crack line. I'm in the cocaine line.

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Speaker 1: It's trays in the weed line. You know, maybe past

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Speaker 1: is having a drink line it with the women line women. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's that. I love that stuff.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that was a great line from James Worthy. What

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Speaker 5: the guy was the final four most outstanding player during

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Speaker 5: Jordan's freshman year and he's like, yeah, he was better

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Speaker 5: than me within two weeks. I mean, obviously Worthy had

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Speaker 5: the more successful season because you know, he's has the

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Speaker 5: seniority on the team, so he's getting all the touches

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Speaker 5: and stuff, and he's like, if we're playing one on one,

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Speaker 5: the guy is wasting me.

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Speaker 4: I thought that was incredible.

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Speaker 5: The guy's in the Hall of Fame now and he

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Speaker 5: knew when Michael Jordan was nineteen years old that he

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Speaker 5: was better than him is incredible.

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Speaker 2: And seeing Patrick Ewing in the documentary was a little

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Speaker 2: bit of surprise to me. But also just seeing that

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Speaker 2: Jordan hits that game winner over Georgetown, over Patrick Ewing's

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Speaker 2: team in the NCAA Final, like it just that that

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Speaker 2: sort of sets a scene of what's to come as

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Speaker 2: well for Patrick Ewing's career, you know, and you know

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Speaker 2: he's been tortured by Jordan, has probably you know, probably

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Speaker 2: worse than anybody else. And it's like, oh, man starts

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Speaker 2: straight away there. But yeah, you know that that young,

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Speaker 2: that young confidence already in that self belief that he

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Speaker 2: had in himself, Like when the shot was coming to him,

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Speaker 2: he was taking it straight away and knocked it in.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's incredible just to see that those seeds

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Speaker 2: were planted so young and so illly into his career

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Speaker 2: as a basketball.

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Speaker 3: Player on that in North Carolina shot. I am not

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Speaker 3: a college connoisseur whatsoever, but watching that felt like, hmm,

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Speaker 3: I haven't missed much in college ball. It looks the

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Speaker 3: exact same. It looks exact Move the ball side to side,

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Speaker 3: somebody will get an open shot. Yea, The entire defense

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Speaker 3: is going to swing over here. We'll move it over here,

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Speaker 3: and that guy is going to get an open shot.

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Speaker 3: Thirty seconds to get mg and open shot. Boom. That's

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Speaker 3: college basketball, now, is it not. Look it looks so similar.

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Speaker 1: Maybe except a three pointer instead of.

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Speaker 3: A Yeah, that was a long two. I was surprised

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Speaker 3: nobody got out to a guy shooting along too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: They weren't even really.

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Speaker 5: Close, not even anywhere close to him. He's like, they

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Speaker 5: didn't even know I was gonna shoot it. They didn't

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Speaker 5: expect it. There was like thirty seconds left in the game.

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Speaker 5: Somebody had to shoot it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Also, I actually think that's a bit of a lie.

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Speaker 4: They were not like they were.

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Speaker 1: There was two defenders right by him. But the problem

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Speaker 1: is Jordan just jumps like forty inches up in the

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Speaker 1: air and like no guy's jumping or has a hand up.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they were by him, but my god, he

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Speaker 1: leaps so high on his jump shots. That stuck out

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Speaker 1: to me from watching these first two episodes. It's just

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Speaker 1: so funny to compare MJ's you know, basketball playing and

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Speaker 1: that era to today, Like did we see I don't

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Speaker 1: think we did. Maybe outside of like a quick shot

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Speaker 1: of him hitting a three and doing the shrug versus

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Speaker 1: the Blazers in the finals as a little setup thing,

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Speaker 1: did he take a three in this in any of.

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Speaker 2: This footage, Like it's.

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Speaker 1: All attacking the rim and it's all those little jumpers

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Speaker 1: and a lot of on baseline or whatever at the elbow,

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Speaker 1: Like it's just so glaring. It's like this was a

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Speaker 1: completely different style of basketball.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that's part of the story, right, Forty nine

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Speaker 5: and sixty three against the Boston Celtics in the Garden

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Speaker 5: with no threes attempted.

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Speaker 4: Pretty incredible.

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Speaker 1: It's insane. It's just his shot just looks so cool

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Speaker 1: because of his giant hand and how high he gets

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Speaker 1: and how he just he really does just he steals

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Speaker 1: in the beat. Oh sorry, he stays in the air

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Speaker 1: like a beat longer than everybody else.

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Speaker 2: He just well you see that one where he's where

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Speaker 2: he blocks that shot in college and he whacks his

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Speaker 2: head on the backboard as well. I mean he's just

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Speaker 2: up so high. And then you see him on the

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Speaker 2: sidelines with He've got the ice on the back of

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Speaker 2: his neck and head area there, like, yeah, athletically, I mean,

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Speaker 2: those young legs were just incredible and then just so explosive,

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Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, like every time in that game. It's

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Speaker 2: that third game I think of his of his NBA

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Speaker 2: career against the Bucks where they're down and then they

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Speaker 2: have that big fourth quarter and even then you see

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Speaker 2: him jump and he just like he does seem to

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Speaker 2: almost catapult himself up in the air higher than everybody else. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's it's incredible stuff.

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Speaker 3: He's a great fan quote a fan quote that was

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Speaker 3: asked about Michael Joran ways, he's so special and the fan,

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Speaker 3: a woman, says, there are no words to describe him.

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Speaker 3: He is poetry in motion and it's just him hanging

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Speaker 3: in the air. Was basically this that first entire hour,

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Speaker 3: and I was awesome to watch. And then I always

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Speaker 3: love watching practice footage and seeing guys just shoot around

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Speaker 3: because I've had some fun just being sort of on

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Speaker 3: that court level, seeing Kevin Durant warm up and seeing

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Speaker 3: MJ grab a ball and shoot it and have extra fingers.

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Speaker 3: It seems like on the basketball with like he flicks

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Speaker 3: that that pinky He doesn't need that extra pinky finger,

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Speaker 3: but he's got it. Like how large those hands are.

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Speaker 3: And that's why part of why he was so great,

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Speaker 3: why he hangs in the air as well. And the

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Speaker 3: third thing why he was so great is that he

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Speaker 3: didn't do cocaine like the rest of his teammates. I

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Speaker 3: think that was a good message, a good message for everybody.

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Speaker 3: He had a great knee slapping laugh when that reporter

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Speaker 3: asked him or the interviewer brought up the headline that

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Speaker 3: the Bulls were a traveling cocaine circus before he came along.

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Speaker 3: There's MJ's dying. I just don't do cocaine. I think

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Speaker 3: that's the message. And you can be Michael Jordan.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I like how he slips in there too, like

436
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 1: at the time, you know, I did it. I didn't

437
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 1: do cocaine. I didn't smoke weed. I did it drink

438
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,399
Speaker 1: and like this is like he has to say at

439
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 1: the time, because while he's being interviewed, he's drinking. He's

440
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 1: got a cigar. I love that part too.

441
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,160
Speaker 3: I think it's a sketch. I wouldn't go with a Hennessy.

442
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,360
Speaker 1: I thought he was a man really interesting.

443
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:15,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a cigar I thing.

444
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, probably it makes more sense. I guess you

445
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 1: can have a cigar and some Hennessy.

446
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably for sure.

447
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 1: You know we heard Trey say he loved that Roy

448
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 1: Williams quote about you know, the turning it on and off,

449
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,159
Speaker 1: but he just never turned it off. Lee. Did you

450
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: have a favorite either interviewee or a quote that stuck

451
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 1: out to you from episode one?

452
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 2: Well, I guess it's just more the story of Jerry Krause,

453
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 2: Like they kind of got straight into that there, and

454
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 2: I think the thing with that, I thought, and and

455
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:42,919
Speaker 2: you know I did sort of know some of this

456
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 2: again through reading books and being around at the time,

457
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,199
Speaker 2: that he was a pretty lonely figure Jerry Krause. You know,

458
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 2: no one seemed to stick up for him, and no

459
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:51,840
Speaker 2: one seemed to, you know, help him out. And like

460
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 2: those couple of times when he does get when Jordan

461
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,360
Speaker 2: takes a few shots at and no one's there sort

462
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 2: of defending him. I mean, of course it's Michael Jordan.

463
00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 2: No one's going to stand up to the greatest player

464
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,239
Speaker 2: of all time and try to, you know, put him

465
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 2: in his spot on the team. But I just wondered throughout.

466
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: You know, Jerry Reinsdorf knew what was going on, but

467
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 2: he and I think he could have sort of stepped

468
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 2: in and tried to ease a little bit of that tension,

469
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 2: but he never. He was sort of happy to just

470
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 2: let it play out, you know, and Kraus like, I'm

471
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 2: sort of surprised that at some point Reinsdorf didn't almost

472
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,120
Speaker 2: choose Kraus or the team and maybe try to separate

473
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 2: it like that, because it wasn't a healthy relationship, it

474
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 2: wasn't a healthy environment.

475
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 4: Kraus's that's the well he chose Chraush.

476
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I guess, I guess that's right. He did

477
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: choose Kraus, but he could have, you know, seeing how

478
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 2: much tension and friction there was between the front office

479
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 2: and the players, I'm surprised that Reinstorf didn't try to

480
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 2: do a little bit better, try to easing that, you know.

481
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 2: And there's that famous quote there of Jerry Krause that

482
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 2: he claims as a misquote saying that organizations win championships,

483
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 2: not players, and he's saying, he said, the whole quote

484
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 2: is it's not just players that wins championships, it's organizations

485
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,439
Speaker 2: and players, it's everybody. But of course the part of

486
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 2: the quote, the meaty part of the quote, is what

487
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 2: gets attributed to him, saying, I basically, you know, me

488
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 2: in the front office won this championship, not the Bulls

489
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 2: and the team. So you can understand why the players

490
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 2: resented him, you know, for sort of trying to take

491
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 2: all that sort of credit. Having said that, I think

492
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 2: Jerry also did a good job in a lot of

493
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 2: ways in getting that team together, you know, making the

494
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 2: trade for Pippen and drafting Horace Grant and that huge

495
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 2: trade of course for Bill cart right, that's a major

496
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 2: major moment in this whole franchise here. So he did

497
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 2: some good things, but of course his ego was as

498
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 2: big as anybody else's as well, and so he wanted

499
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 2: full credit for everything, even though you know, as Jordan

500
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 2: and the players say throughout, like, it's the players who

501
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 2: go out there and win and perform. So I thought

502
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 2: that storyline and just the sort of back and forth

503
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: between everyone there again, really that to me is a

504
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 2: big part of the story how they were able to succeed,

505
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 2: even though the working relationship was very, very bad of

506
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 2: course with Phil Jack as well.

507
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: So I mean Jerry Crouse was booed on reading it,

508
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: and like you, it's audible, like they didn't pump up

509
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: the ball. You don't think on that one, JD. That's

510
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: just straight Chicago saying, boo this man. You're trying to

511
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: break up a dynasty, you idiot, even though you helped

512
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 1: build it. What are you doing?

513
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean I remember hating that guy growing up.

514
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 5: But also just crazy to think that the NBA thirty

515
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 5: years ago, you could just walk into the owner's office

516
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 5: and say, actually, you know, I work for your baseball team.

517
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 5: I'd like to be the GM for your basketball team,

518
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 5: and you can do it. And the guy's in the

519
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 5: Hall of Fame now for building an incredible team. But

520
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 5: it's also such a tough situation for Jerry Krouse too, Right,

521
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 5: he does build an incredible team around Michael Jordan, but

522
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 5: Michael Jordan is there and he was there before Jerry

523
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 5: Krouse showed up, So I mean, there's no way he'll

524
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 5: ever get the credit he's really due, and especially now

525
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 5: you know he has passed away and he and the

526
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 5: documentary is coming out now, so he doesn't have really

527
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 5: a chance to defend himself. So hopefully we get a

528
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 5: little bit more, uh Jerry background as well as the

529
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 5: series goes on.

530
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so wild to think too with Kraus, like

531
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: do the Bulls because Jordan wants to take everything, you know,

532
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: obviously personally, and it's gonna you know, he's gonna use

533
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 1: it as motivation. I mean, as we saw, of course

534
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: in his Hall of Fame speech where he just like

535
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: recalled every time anyone had ever slighted him or said

536
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: he couldn't do something, blah blah blahlah blah. And in

537
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: a weird way, Jerry Krouse, you know, contemplating trading Pip

538
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: in contemplating whether this is the end of the dynasty

539
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: or Phil Jackson, Okay, we don't really maybe want you

540
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: or need you, but we'll give you one more year.

541
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: In a weird way, him doing this may have actually

542
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: helped the Bulls and Jordan win another title, right, because

543
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: like they're almost like they're almost not even playing the

544
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: other teams in the league now, they're just playing against

545
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: It's like they're winning a championship in spite of their

546
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: own front office.

547
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well yeah, mine Barkley and that that sort of

548
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: goes back as well to the thing with Phil Jackson

549
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: saying I don't care if you go addie to or no,

550
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 2: this is the last season you're coaching, no matter what. Like,

551
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: how does that show any sort of confidence or motivation

552
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: even for Phil to you know, well, I guess Phil

553
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 2: can say, well, screw you. If we win it, then great,

554
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 2: But it's just that bad chemistry and that bad feeling

555
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 2: that like I don't even really want your coaching. You know,

556
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 2: we talk they served as well. How for his own

557
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: wedding or his daughter's wedding. I guess it was that

558
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: Phil Jackson wasn't even invited, but Tim Floyd was, who

559
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: took over as coach after that season, So you know,

560
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: just the that sort of tension and that sort of

561
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 2: ugly toxic working environment. To me, it's just incredible that

562
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: they were able to succeed. And again going back to

563
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 2: my point earlier that that's where I'm sort of surprised

564
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 2: where Jerry Reinstorff didn't just sort of step in and

565
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 2: say I'll handle all this stuff, you handle you know,

566
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: the other stuff. Maybe because I can't have people just

567
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 2: openly at war with each other among the within the franchise.

568
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, but again in a weird way, Jordan relishes.

569
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: I thinel, like, yeah, I know what you mean.

570
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, turmoil and like, yeah, the ultimate f you to

571
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: that guy, Like he actually like almost gets off on

572
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: it and like takes this game to another levels. He

573
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: used like there's so many examples where he's used that

574
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: type of stuff. So it's just this backwards way of

575
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: getting to another championship, despite you know, Jerry Cross contemplating

576
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: whether he was going to blow it up or not.

577
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 2: No, I get that, and it is it is a

578
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: fair point to make, and it's probably true as well

579
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 2: because Jordan just always wanted to sort of prove people wrong.

580
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: But it just felt to me again at that stage

581
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: of their relationship, had having been there together for so long,

582
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: that you wouldn't have wanted it still at that point.

583
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 2: But but you know, again, I guess it just shows

584
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 2: that you can still work under those conditions. If you know,

585
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 2: when people do their own jobs, their own way, they

586
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 2: don't have to like each other.

587
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, But the sad part is obviously the way they

588
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 3: they all broke up at the end of the ninety

589
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 3: eight season after a championship. You know, I think Steve

590
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 3: Kerr tried to imitate what Phil Jackson did by calling

591
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 3: it the last dance with this Warriors team last year.

592
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 3: He said it multiple times. He didn't put it on

593
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: the front of a duo tang that he handed out

594
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: to the team like Phil Jackson did, but with the Warriors,

595
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: he definitely felt like, you know, he was saying, we

596
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 3: don't know what the heck's gonna happen after this year,

597
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 3: so let's try and put it out on the floor,

598
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 3: or put it all out on the floor and try

599
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 3: and win. They obviously didn't win a lot. A lot

600
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 3: had to do with injuries, a lot had to do

601
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 3: with that team from the North. But you know, the

602
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 3: MJ was at that podium said multiple times he said,

603
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 3: you know, we should be able to defend our championship.

604
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: And that was before the ninety seven ninety eight season.

605
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 3: And then they win it, and they don't end that

606
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 3: run with a loss, which obviously is part of the glory,

607
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 3: but also you know, sad that they didn't at least

608
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 3: get even another year, that Pippen wasn't re up from

609
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 3: that two point whatever million he was making and giving

610
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: him a you know, a fifteen million dollar contract just

611
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 3: to see them try and do it at least lose

612
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 3: before they break it up. But I guess it also

613
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 3: shows how tough it is for any franchise to go

614
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 3: on a dynasty run. It's just it seems like nothing

615
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 3: ends well when they and all these runs happened. You know,

616
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 3: obviously the Lakers of the early two thousands, this Warriors

617
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 3: team that just happened right here. Doc Rivers even tried

618
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: to do it with a Clippers team that never won.

619
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 3: He tried to say this the last time we're getting together.

620
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 3: It's it always it's tough. It's just it's it's a

621
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 3: very difficult thing to I guess to end well. But

622
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 3: I guess that's the part of m J. Maybe it's

623
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 3: just great he didn't never lost the finals as well.

624
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. Did you have a favorite

625
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: interviewee or quote test from this one?

626
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 3: Interview require? I mean I got them all in there.

627
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: I think I snuck them in with the cocaine and

628
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 3: the I mean, we can when are we going to

629
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: go through the crouse berating If you're a short person

630
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 3: watching this documentary, that I must have hurt. I must

631
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 3: have hurt just every single person who's under whatever five nine.

632
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 3: If you're a man under five to nine. I mean,

633
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 3: that's it was rough watching Jerry Krouse get killed for

634
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 3: being a short guy.

635
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I felt terrible for him that scene where he's like, oh,

636
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 5: those the pills you take to keep you short, and

637
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 5: like that's bad enough, but least he's around, like, you know,

638
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 5: everybody who's six foot eight, seven feet tall.

639
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 4: He's around a lot of tall guys.

640
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 5: But then he hits him with or all of those

641
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 5: diet pills and then like kind of walks away with

642
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 5: a jaunty laugh, like I just completely belittled you, and

643
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 5: everybody's on my side.

644
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: And there's like a camera right there, there's like twenty

645
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: people right there. Yeah, it's like he obviously knew what

646
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: he was doing.

647
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 3: MJ.

648
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: And he's like I don't care. I hate this guy.

649
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: And it's what's wild about all of that, and maybe

650
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: we're going to see more of it in the in

651
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: the episodes to come. It's like just that Jerry Crows

652
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: is like, Nope, I'm going on the bus still. I'm

653
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: gonna be around the team all the time, Like wouldn't

654
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: you at one point, like I don't know if you

655
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: just sort of hating each other and it's pretty damn awkward.

656
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: And you're sort of, you know, coming to blows with

657
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: the most popular athlete maybe of all time or at

658
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: least on the short list, like maybe just avoid being

659
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: around the team. And I guess he was a stubborn

660
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: little guy as well. He was no I'll show my face,

661
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: I'll take it on the chin and maybe even throw

662
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: it back a little bit. So kodles to him. I

663
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: couldn't believe. Like even there's that one shot where like

664
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: they're starting to get on the bus and they just

665
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: like zoom in on Kraus and it's like, you don't

666
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: know if anything was said or a look was had

667
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: between the two while someone was getting on, but man,

668
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: it's like you can just feel the tension.

669
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's the thing I'm looking forward to the

670
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: you know, because they talked about how Scotty pipp And

671
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: just absolutely berated him on the bus, So I guess

672
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 2: we're going to see a little bit of that, you know,

673
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: later in the episodes here. But you know, and guys

674
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: were saying like like he went too far, and you

675
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: know that. But you can understand Scotty's position because you know,

676
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: he felt that he was not only underpaid, but completely

677
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: disrespected by Krause, you know, trying to trade him and

678
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 2: trying to move on from him. So you know, Scotty

679
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: had had a bone that he wanted to pick there

680
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: with Jerry Krause, and he wasn't able to make any

681
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: progress in getting a new contract from the owner. So

682
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,479
Speaker 2: I guess he just took it out on Jerry Krouse.

683
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: So it will be interesting to see if just how

684
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: nasty that sort of spat gets and how much of

685
00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: it we get to see.

686
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 3: I guess one interesting thing, I forget the reporter's name

687
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: who basically psychoanalyzed Jerry Crouse and said he was a

688
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: fat kid growing up. He needed he needed the credit,

689
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 3: you know, for building this team, And I guess it

690
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: sort of speaks to what Trey said. Now that Jerry

691
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 3: Kross has passed, he can't defend himself and at least

692
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: at least be there doing these testimonials, Like you know,

693
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 3: obviously people discredit Jerry Reinsdorf and the way he handled things.

694
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 3: People are doing that with Jerry Krouse, and unfortunately he

695
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 3: can't even tell you what he was like as a kid,

696
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 3: or you know, at least defend his entire worldly view

697
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 3: and all the thing and he doesn't. He's not going

698
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 3: to get the credit he deserves for the you know,

699
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 3: those mid eighties moves that Lee sort of went through

700
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 3: a bunch of those moves, And I guess he's not

701
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 3: able to tell you that. I don't know, maybe maybe

702
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 3: the sad stuff we heard about Scottie Pippen. You know,

703
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 3: we'll get to it in episode two. We would hear

704
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: about with Jerry Krouse a little bit more of the

705
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: background of his early upbringing. But this reporter again, I

706
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 3: forget his name. He just said he was a fat

707
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 3: guy and he always needed He's always a fat kid

708
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 3: who just needed to He was just always picked on,

709
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 3: really and he needed to get more credit than he got.

710
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 3: So that was a good it was a good line.

711
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 3: But and this guy, this reporter, obviously he obviously hated

712
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 3: Jerry Krousse as well. Yeah, he had a dislike for

713
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 3: which is a theme of I guess, of this whole documentary.

714
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, even Reinstorf says, right at the beginning when he

715
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 5: was hiring it, everybody told me stay away from this guy.

716
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 5: Everybody hates him. But I hired him anyways, and it

717
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 5: worked out until it didn't work out. There's a quote

718
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 5: from Phil Rosenthal in the David harberstand book, where he

719
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 5: says Jerry Kraus was a person who deserved more credit

720
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 5: than he got, but wanted more credit than he deserved,

721
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 5: and that's an impossible spot to be in.

722
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 3: Really.

723
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there was.

724
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: There was like one hundred and thirty people I think

725
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: interviewed for this documentary series. And by the way, I

726
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: feel like at the end of all of this, after

727
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: ten hours of this, we're gonna be going. Man, I

728
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: would have watched it their ten hours. I just have

729
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: this feeling like how much was left on the cutting

730
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: room floor or why didn't you explore that story more

731
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: or whatever. But my three favorite interviewees from this episode.

732
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: One one Jordan's mom, Dolores, for she looks incredible. Don't

733
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: know when that was filmed, but she looks, like Nora

734
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: pointed out, she was like, she looks like the exact

735
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: same age as Michael Jordan. If you look like go on,

736
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: She's like, oh my god, yeah, like absolutely they could

737
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: be the same age and that's his mother. So she

738
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: looked fantastic And that was a great little part where

739
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: and smooth and JD I'm interested to hear your take

740
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: on it, like the idea of like handing MJ your

741
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: subject of your documentary the iPad and saying, hey, watch this,

742
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: and then have them react to in this case, Jordan's

743
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: mom reading the little letter that he once wrote to

744
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: her from UNC. What do you think about that that strategy?

745
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 6: As the filmmaker, Oh my god, this is great.

746
00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 4: Now.

747
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 6: Well, not only do we get to hear the letter,

748
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 6: which was really sweet and cute, and it elicited the

749
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 6: emotional response that we were looking for from from both

750
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 6: of them, she was touched and with a happy memory,

751
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 6: and he was touched to see his mother touched by

752
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 6: the by the letter itself. It was great. It was

753
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 6: really good.

754
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so cool. I think there's more of that

755
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: to come too throughout the documentary, like this idea of

756
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: like handing MG the iPad and hey, watch this person

757
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: actually react to something else you have done or something

758
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: like That's pretty cool.

759
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 4: I heard episode four is all about the stamps. You know,

760
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 4: Michael mailing letters like crazy.

761
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: The other two interviewees. I mean, Lee, I think I

762
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: saw your tweet Barack Obama described as former Chicago resident.

763
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: That was unbelievable, like that, because I was watching it

764
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know, you sort of sort of

765
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: just assume it's going to say you form a president

766
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: or whatever, and just it got to the end, I thought,

767
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 2: I think that just said like former Chicago residents. So

768
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: I had to like scroll back and I'm like, that

769
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: is just a brilliant thing to add there for And

770
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 2: they did the same thing with Bill Clinton later on,

771
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 2: uh you know, former Arkansas governor. I think it said

772
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: for him, but uh yeah, just just to put that

773
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: in there just adds a it's a it's a little quality,

774
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 2: a little touch to add in there that just you know,

775
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 2: helps set the scene. And I think for the for

776
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: the whole thing, But.

777
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 3: Why didn't why didn't Bill Clinton get former Arkansas resident

778
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 3: and or former Illinois senator?

779
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 2: I mean, that's right, Well you just got to mix

780
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 2: it up a little bit, you know.

781
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: The final the final person interviewed in episode one that

782
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: I loved just because he's the coolest looking guy on

783
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 1: the planet, pat Riley, so damn cool in that shot,

784
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: this entire appearance and obviously the way he like speaks,

785
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: it's just that was just perfect. But I mean, across

786
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: the board, especially with all like these long time you

787
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: know Chicago beat writers and stuff like that, and then

788
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: and then you have like, yeah, the upper etchelon of

789
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: presidents and like just I mean, everybody has really an

790
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: MG sort of story. But I thought a lot of

791
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: the people they're using, of course, have a personal connection

792
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: of some sort to them, so they're knocking to it

793
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: out of the park with I mean, I guess so

794
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: when you do one hundred and thirty of them, you're

795
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: gonna get some gold in there.

796
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean even you know, to me, this

797
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 5: was kind of the first episode was just the overview, right,

798
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 5: and you're just seeing little things in there that you

799
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 5: just can't wait to see how they play out. Because

800
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 5: in the press leading up to it, Jordan was worried

801
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 5: about how he was gonna come off throughout this documentary,

802
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 5: and through the first two parts, I'm like, he seems

803
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 5: intense and tough and you know, but nothing that was

804
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 5: too crazy. But you see like that scene where Ron

805
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 5: Harper is joking around with Scotty Burrell, and you know

806
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 5: that Jordan has said some of the stuff with Scotty.

807
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 4: Burrell I think people are not gonna like, but he

808
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 4: just like gives him a dirty look.

809
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 5: He gets mad at them for celebrating a championship that's

810
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 5: not really a championship. But that to me is like,

811
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 5: I don't know, Scotty Burrell, you're getting a little too

812
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 5: jokey here for just showing up knowing what's coming down

813
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 5: the line, Like how terrible is he gonna beat to him?

814
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 5: When Scotti Breull asked him for a hug and he

815
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 5: just gives him the most disdainful look, like, how dare

816
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 5: you ask to touch me?

817
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 3: I think Scotti Burrell played a little too early. I

818
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 3: think he would. Scotty Burrow would be perfect in today's era,

819
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: like Channing Fry and Richard Jefferson. There's Scottie Burrell a

820
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 3: few decades later. You know that that's the personality. Wise, anyways,

821
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 3: he'd fit. He'd fit better now.

822
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: I think any other funny moments from episode one or

823
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: random observations that anyone wanted to throw in there.

824
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 6: I loved this score. The guy that scored the episode,

825
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 6: or I guess the whole series is Thomas Caffey, and

826
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 6: he's done. He did the Andrea the Giant Talk and

827
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 6: the Carter Effect and other sports documentaries, and I noticed

828
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 6: in this first episode not so much a second but

829
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 6: it all leads up to that track by the Alan

830
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 6: Parsons Project that the the their theme song. Serious It's

831
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,479
Speaker 6: called and everybody knows this I guess, but he took

832
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 6: little bits of it. It seemed he was playing with

833
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 6: the melody throughout and there was little hints of it.

834
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 6: It was very subtle. But it all led up to

835
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 6: the ring ceremony, which I love that part of it.

836
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I have to catch that on a rewatch.

837
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: Nice little note there, jd anybody else?

838
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 5: A great line from Jordan when they got to talking

839
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 5: about rebuilding and he drops cubs have been rebuilding for

840
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 5: forty two years. Crowd goes crazy. I was like, oh, yeah,

841
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 5: you're employed by the owner of the socks. Nice one

842
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 5: right there. I mean, the hat watching was incredible. A

843
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 5: lot of the beret, obviously, a kangle was there. I

844
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 5: forgot that Jordan used to wear that little beanie that

845
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 5: would just kind of cover just the top of his head.

846
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 4: When he showed up wearing that with a Jordan sign

847
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 4: on it, I was like, who is this guy?

848
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,439
Speaker 5: But then eventually they show his dad and he's wearing

849
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 5: like a gigantic corduroy hat. I was like, Okay, so

850
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 5: it comes from a this is a family thing. Everybody's

851
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 5: wearing crazy hats in the Jordan family, and I gotta

852
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 5: say I would say Jordan had a tucked in T

853
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 5: shirt one hundred percent of the time.

854
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 4: The guy's tucked in at all times.

855
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. Nora noticed that too. She's like, was that a thing?

856
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, yeah, I guess MJ did

857
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: it a lot, because it's really glaring. When he's wearing

858
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: like the red Bulls jersey or a white Bulls jersey

859
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: and he's got like black track pants and like super

860
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: tucked it in. It's like, whoa, that's a power look. Yeah,

861
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: I guess he did do that a lot. You've been

862
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 1: starting to do it too, Trey.

863
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 4: I'm going one hundred percent tuck this summer after watching this.

864
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 5: I'd like to maybe if I if I have to

865
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 5: dress up for some reason, maybe I'll get a banker shirt.

866
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 5: When's the last time you saw somebody wearing the blue

867
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 5: shirt with the white collar.

868
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 4: That was a thing back in the nineties too.

869
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 5: The suits are great, they could fit two people easily.

870
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 5: I'm like, Bill Wennington must have bought suits for everybody

871
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 5: and then just handed them down.

872
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

873
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I told you guys about my hashtag TBT,

874
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: the photo I was pushing out there last week. Yeah,

875
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: that suit that I'm rocking in that to prom would

876
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: have fit right in during this bull's run because it's big,

877
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 1: big and baggy and just hanging off me. So that

878
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: was the look. It was quite the look, all right.

879
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: Before we break down episode two of The Last Dance,

880
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: a quick word from one of our sponsors, The.

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890
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895
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913
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914
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Speaker 1: For the moment before sitting down to start this series,

915
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: I was trying, I don't know about you guys, like

916
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: to absorb and read everything I possibly could about it

917
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: or about of course the Bulls dynasty and that particular year,

918
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 1: and you know, so either an athletic article or ESPN

919
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: or Kelly Dwyer, whoever was writing about it. I was

920
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: reading it all mainly also because I was bored, because

921
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: what else are.

922
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: We gonna do?

923
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: But ESPNS. Ramona Shelburne she wrote something that stuck with

924
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 1: me because she said, this isn't the definitive documentary about

925
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: one of the greatest players of all time, Michael Jordan.

926
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: It's a documentary about one of the greatest teams of

927
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: all time, the ninety seven ninety eight Balls, with Jordan

928
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: as the leading character. And I think we quickly saw

929
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: that in episode two because this really was for a

930
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: good chunk of it, the Pippin episode, right, or a

931
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: lot about Scottie Pippen, the contract holdout and where he

932
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: came from, you know, the poverty and the issues with

933
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 1: his family that I hadn't even really little recollection of

934
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: with his father and one of his siblings and stuff

935
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 1: like that, and this that's what I'm love and already

936
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: about this doc. It's not just MJ. It's like, you know,

937
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna get a Rodman and we're probably gonna get

938
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: like a Phil Jackson. Maybe we get even some role

939
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 1: player stuff. Who but this was I thought this episode

940
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: was even better than the you know, the table setting

941
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: episode one. Would you agree with that lead?

942
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I liked the angle for Scotty Pippen

943
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 2: because he grew up in a really small town and

944
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: you know, you didn't really think he was gonna make

945
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: it as a basketball player at the start, and then

946
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: he has that incredible growth spurt where he grows like

947
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 2: five inches in one summer, which is just an incredible

948
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: thing to happen, and then he transformed into this dynamic

949
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: basketball player that Jerry Krause absolutely must have, and then

950
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: they have to swing a trade for him to get him. So,

951
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 2: you know, like his whole story that the fact that

952
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 2: he even ended up on the bulls is quite unique

953
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 2: because in those days, scouting was a lot more quiet,

954
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 2: Like there wasn't you know, people weren't sharing clips and

955
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: videos and things like that. If you knew about a

956
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 2: guy you had to sort of try to keep it

957
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: under wraps so it didn't get out there too much.

958
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 2: But then and then of course the whole situation with Scotty.

959
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 2: You know that we know about his family life there

960
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 2: you mentioned there, but then him getting the credit and

961
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 2: the reward for being the player who Michael Jordan absolutely

962
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 2: said is the second, you know, the best teammate he

963
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 2: could have had, and wanted to keep him there, but

964
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: he had to sort of be a protector for him

965
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 2: in some ways like that as well, because Scotty was

966
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 2: upset with the franchise. You know, he demands a trade

967
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: later in the episode there, and they tried to trade him.

968
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 2: It's incredible that he wasn't traded when you consider all

969
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 2: those factors there that you know, Jerry Krows says, there

970
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 2: was a lot of trades out there, they couldn't get

971
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 2: one done, and Scotty said he wasn't coming back either.

972
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 2: So again, for all the obstacles that Scotty and the

973
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: Bulls had to overcome to get they were where they were,

974
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 2: was great. But Scotty's whole family life as well, added

975
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 2: to that fact, just made it you could sort of

976
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 2: see that he was dealing with so many issues on

977
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: the court in his professional life but also in his

978
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: private life, and again, it just gives a whole more,

979
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 2: a lot more rounding to the character of who he is.

980
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 5: Growing up, I was always shocked that somebody could come

981
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 5: out of University of Central Arkansas, Like, how would you

982
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 5: ever find somebody? But this was the most like college

983
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 5: footage you've ever seen of Scottie Pippen and he looks

984
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 5: like welch. So to me, I was like, wow, Okay,

985
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 5: at least it makes sense that they would find out

986
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 5: about this guy. There's that clip where he goes up

987
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 5: and dunks on a guy and just does two flying

988
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 5: knees right into his shoulders. I'm like, what is this

989
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 5: guy still alive that got knocked down because Pippen just

990
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 5: crushes him. So yeah, I mean, it's like, what an

991
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 5: incredible fine by Jerry Cross. But you have to imagine

992
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 5: Pippen did go fifth in the draft. He's not an

993
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 5: unknown guy by the time he gets to the NBA.

994
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 4: But like, oh my goodness, seeing him play in college

995
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 4: was insane.

996
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can you can make the debate like

997
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: or the argument I should say that I mean Pippen's

998
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: backstory of getting to the NBA is maybe even crazier

999
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: than MJ's. Right.

1000
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you would have to say so.

1001
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 5: I mean, coming from abject poverty, and he started he

1002
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 5: was always it was always said he was started as

1003
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 5: a walk on. It was kind of how I always

1004
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 5: heard the Pippen story, but to hear him say that

1005
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 5: he was actually the equipment manager and then some guys

1006
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 5: started doing poorly at school, so he just kind of

1007
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 5: talked his way into getting a scholarship and then retired

1008
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 5: as one of the fifty greatest players of all time.

1009
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love the footage just because it was from

1010
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 3: literally the rafters of the Arenas that he was playing

1011
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 3: with for Central Arkansas. Because the footage is not good

1012
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 3: at all. It was up in the last row really,

1013
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 3: because I guess those games weren't, you know, broadcast anywhere

1014
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty six, eighty seven. Fun to watch. I

1015
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 3: am looking forward to just the the everything Pippen. Now,

1016
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 3: I agree with you, Skeetze. The second episode here of

1017
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 3: the ten episodes, was a little bit more about, you know,

1018
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,959
Speaker 3: the human interest piece of Yeah, Scott Scottie's upbringing and

1019
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 3: the horrible accident of his second oldest brother. As he said,

1020
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 3: it was just a pe class at gym class where

1021
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 3: a wrestling movement wrong, leaving his brother paralyzed. Wild stuff.

1022
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 3: And you know, Pippin is definitely the figure that you know,

1023
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 3: I'm drawn to. I'm empathetic towards and I side with

1024
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 3: even if he was yelling at Jerry Krause, and it

1025
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 3: was he had to be talked to at some point,

1026
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 3: like all the reporters on the bus and even you know,

1027
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 3: Jerry Reinsdorf had to look at Pippen and say, calm down, relaxed.

1028
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'm definitely I definitely am

1029
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 3: teams Scott Pippen, and it's always cool to see, you know,

1030
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 3: Scott go to Scotty, Mike go to Michael. Yeah, and

1031
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 3: I know that Michael. You mentioned Ramona Shelburne and I

1032
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 3: mentioned it off the top of the episode. I read

1033
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 3: Ramona as well, and she was clearly stated that Michael,

1034
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 3: I believe at some point, you know, when he's a

1035
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 3: lot closer to you know, his deathbed, really when he's

1036
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 3: in his seventies or whenever, whenever, he'll actually allow people

1037
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 3: to talk about his early nineties and the gambling and

1038
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 3: his father passing away, Like this isn't the definitive Michael

1039
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 3: Jordan piece, and I don't know. That just makes me

1040
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 3: excited for that if he's willing to let that go.

1041
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 3: But like like Trey said about him giving the green

1042
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 3: light when Lebron won, I think this is the basketball

1043
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 3: story and eventually we'll get the Michael Jordan's human interest piece.

1044
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 3: But the Scotty human interest piece is uh, He's awesome.

1045
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: I loved it. H Yeah, I love the Pablo Torre

1046
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: had a tweet last night when Scottie Pippen speaks, my

1047
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 2: subwolfer turns my whole apartment into the glass of water

1048
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 2: in Jurassic Park.

1049
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 3: Pablo Torre, Yeah, great tweet, Pablo.

1050
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess that voice runs in the family because

1051
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 5: his brother Billy Pippen.

1052
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, identical look, identical voice.

1053
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 5: I'm like, Okay, I guess you guys are just gonna

1054
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 5: be twins by the time you're both seventy years old.

1055
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 5: It's nice to see Scottie Pippen growing into his voice

1056
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 5: and his face, because I feel like he looked like

1057
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 5: an old man back in the nineties when he was

1058
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 5: playing for the Bulls, but now he's getting to be

1059
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 5: an old man, so it kind of fits.

1060
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: Did you know anyone Trey growing up again in Illinois

1061
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: that was more of a Pippen fan than a Jordan fan? Like,

1062
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: did those people did they exist?

1063
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 4: Did they? I mean that's the question. Some people would

1064
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 4: say they would.

1065
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 5: Danny Selecci said he was a Scottie Pippen fan more

1066
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 5: than a Michael Jordan fan. But he also said, if

1067
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 5: Carrie Wood has two twenty strikeout games, he should win

1068
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:11,879
Speaker 5: Rookie of the Year.

1069
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 4: It doesn't make any sense.

1070
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 5: So, yeah, certainly there were people that would say Pippen

1071
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 5: was their favorite, but I feel like that's just a swerve.

1072
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's possible.

1073
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 4: It's possible.

1074
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: I mean I was I remember as a kid, a

1075
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: massive Pippin fan. But even I can't lie and say, oh, yeah,

1076
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: I liked Pippin more than Michael Jordan. No, I just

1077
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 1: maybe liked him more than what you thought he was

1078
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: getting credit for. Like O, this guy really is maybe

1079
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: the second best player in the league.

1080
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 2: It is.

1081
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: It's wild to think that that it's there. There were

1082
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 1: a couple of years where that's probably true, right, I mean,

1083
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: I think there are a handful of years where Pippen

1084
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: is arguably the second best player in the league and

1085
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: he's on the same team with the.

1086
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 3: Number one guy.

1087
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a case. I mean, you know,

1088
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 2: he was on the Dream team. I mean he was.

1089
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 2: He was an incredible player. And you know, it wasn't

1090
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 2: just that he did one thing. It was he was

1091
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 2: able to defend. He one of the best defenders ever.

1092
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 2: And you know, he could play the point, he could shoot,

1093
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 2: he could dunk you I mean, he had some of

1094
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 2: those massive dunks. You know, we see it over Patrick Ewing,

1095
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 2: probably the most famous pip and dunk. But you know,

1096
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,439
Speaker 2: he was more than just a sort of complimentary piece.

1097
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 2: He was a star in his own right who certainly

1098
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 2: thrived and you know had moments where you know, Jordan

1099
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 2: needed Pippen to to sort of carry the team, and

1100
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 2: it did happen, you know, at times, but of course

1101
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 2: Jordan was always the one that you sort of it

1102
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: defaulted back to his team and his moment always whenever

1103
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 2: the game needed to be one.

1104
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 3: And it has to be asked, could Scotty score on

1105
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 3: his own enough to be the second best player in

1106
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 3: the NBA? Could he put it on the floor and

1107
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 3: score on his own, to be a guy you could

1108
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 3: rely on to be the number one option as a

1109
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 3: go to guy.

1110
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: He was pretty damn good when MG wasn't there. Yeah,

1111
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: he was awesome. I hear what you're saying. I mean, yeah,

1112
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's well, he's not MG and

1113
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: he's not like even like a Kobe or something like

1114
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: that was. But how could he had been like more

1115
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: of a Lebron, you know, given that opportunity. I don't know,

1116
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,359
Speaker 1: it's no sort of impossible, I guess to say they.

1117
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: I thought it was cool that like mj' is like,

1118
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: oh yeah, he was my best teammate. He was the

1119
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: best teammate ever played with. And I mean we like

1120
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 1: compliment each other so perfect, which is so cool. And

1121
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: you know this whole contract holdout thing too. Getting Pippin's backstory,

1122
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: I thought really brought that some clarity with the idea

1123
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: of like, you know, he took this, he took that

1124
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: super long contract, what was it, seven years, eighteen million, Yeah,

1125
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: because he came from nothing and he's got family members

1126
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: to take care of, and like, yeah, that's still a

1127
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: goddamn lot of money. You know, in retrospect, of course

1128
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: you're like, oh man, you would have you could have

1129
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: made like whatever, eighty million dollars more over those seven

1130
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 1: years whatever. But you get why someone in that position

1131
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: would be like, yeah, okay, give me nearly twenty million dollars. Yeah, sure,

1132
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: I'll play for six seven years and then turns into

1133
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: one of the best players in the league, and then sure,

1134
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: then there's resentment. But at the time you can see

1135
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: why that decision, I guess was made probably from you know,

1136
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 1: Pippin and his agent's side of things, you know what

1137
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: I mean.

1138
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think there is any regret from Pippen

1139
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 5: for signing a long deal like that, because, like you

1140
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 5: see him saying, he's like, you saw how I grew up.

1141
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 4: This is what I needed to do.

1142
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 5: The problem is that as more and more money came

1143
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 5: into the NBA, he signed this deal in ninety one,

1144
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 5: and then by ninety four they could have renegotiated.

1145
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 4: You know, Jordan was off the payroll.

1146
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 5: They could have definitely talked to Pippen and paid him

1147
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 5: like he should have been paid. But that's not a

1148
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 5: Jerry Rhyinsdorf thing. He told Pippen when he was signing

1149
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 5: the deal. I thought that's fascinating too. Ye, he is

1150
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 5: basically bargaining against his own GM, saying you shouldn't do this,

1151
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 5: you should get some more money from this, and Pippen's like,

1152
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 5: I gotta do it.

1153
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 4: I gotta take the money.

1154
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 5: And I mean eighteen million dollars, no doubt is life

1155
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 5: changing money for Scotty, Pippen and his family. But I

1156
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 5: don't know, it just seems tough for Pippen to have

1157
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 5: one shot at it and then never get another shot

1158
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 5: at it again until he's away from the Bulls.

1159
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 2: I thought that was a fascinating moment there, because you're right,

1160
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 2: Jerry Reinsdorf's almost saying this is crazy to sign that.

1161
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 2: But then you also see Jerry Hinsdorf lay to say,

1162
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: once you've signed your contract, don't come and talk to

1163
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 2: me again. Like you've signed it, that's it, no renegotiation.

1164
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 2: So you know, it was almost like you were saying

1165
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 2: to Scotty, there's a better deal out there for you,

1166
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 2: but if you sign this, I don't want to hear

1167
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 2: from you again. You know, crazy, crazy sort of insight there,

1168
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 2: because I don't think we would see that anymore where

1169
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 2: an owner is you know, basically going against his own

1170
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 2: gm aget for a star player like that, I thought

1171
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 2: that sort of dynamic was fascinating, and I sort of

1172
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:30,399
Speaker 2: wonder as well why Reinstorf didn't take over those negotiations then,

1173
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:33,720
Speaker 2: and you know, say to Jerry Kraus, like, I'll handle Scotty,

1174
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,439
Speaker 2: he's one of our star players. Because ninety one they'd

1175
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 2: won the championship, so it was pretty clear that Pippen

1176
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 2: was a star and the rise he was an All star.

1177
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 2: Even then, you know, there was an opportunity, I think

1178
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: for Reinstorf to just sort of be the father in

1179
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 2: this situation and say I'll take care of this Jerry,

1180
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 2: but to Kraus, but I guess, I guess that just

1181
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 2: didn't happen. He allowed Kraus enough rope to be able

1182
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 2: to go out there and do what he had to do,

1183
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 2: but at the same time, he didn't have a sort

1184
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 2: of decide I'm gonna say, I'm gonna overrule here and

1185
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 2: do what's better for the team in the long term

1186
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 2: or for the player.

1187
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: Jerry Reinsdorf because he doesn't seem all that human to me.

1188
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 1: He seems like robotic in a weird way, like it's

1189
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 1: either just so black or white with him. Yeah, that's

1190
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,919
Speaker 1: what that was sort of a Nora made the same

1191
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: observation watching It's like, this guy is so dry and

1192
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: he's just so matter of fact, and he's like he

1193
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: doesn't I don't know, he just he lacks that sort

1194
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,359
Speaker 1: of human quality he or something about him. Maybe that's

1195
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: a part of it, Lee, I have no idea for sure.

1196
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 5: Once in a while he would make a joke and

1197
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 5: you're like, oh, that was a joke. That was actually

1198
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 5: a funny joke that you just made. But I mean

1199
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 5: that's kind of the rep for Reinsdorf is that in

1200
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 5: every negotiation he wants to win, he wants to get

1201
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 5: the money from you, and then as soon as that

1202
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 5: deal is signed, we're never talking about it again.

1203
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 4: You signed a contract.

1204
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. He's a shrewd businessman, no doubt.

1205
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, business people huh yeh yeah. Less less emotion, more smarts.

1206
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 3: And it's odd to hear that they're both named Jerry.

1207
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 3: You know, it didn't really occur to me for a

1208
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 3: while that there you got a double Jerry, although Jerry

1209
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 3: Cross is a Jerome, which was surprising in retrospect watching

1210
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 3: Scotty Pippen, you know, lament the whole thing and lament

1211
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,439
Speaker 3: Jerry Cross. There's you know, it's obviously it's it's hard

1212
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 3: not to sympathize with Scotty to some degree. And there's

1213
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 3: the moment where he is angry and he says, I

1214
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 3: will get my due. I will get my due, and

1215
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 3: I hope at the end of the dock in the

1216
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 3: tenth episode when we get the the notes afterwards and

1217
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 3: you get the post ninety eight notes, it will say

1218
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 3: that Scottie Pippen did go on to make some bucks

1219
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,919
Speaker 3: in the NBA. In his next five seasons, he made,

1220
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 3: you know, nearly eighty million dollars. And it's crazy to

1221
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 3: see after he returned with for those stints with the

1222
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 3: Rockets and the Blazers that his highest paid years with

1223
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 3: the Bulls were when he came back in three and

1224
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,399
Speaker 3: four for those two years. Bonkers to think that.

1225
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 1: Bonkers so too. I mean, it's bookend Bipippin. Like it starts, obviously,

1226
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 1: we're getting the backstory of Pippin and then yeah, sort

1227
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: of we come back around to him berating Krous and

1228
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: all the on the bus and stuff like that, and

1229
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: really building towards that but within this, I mean, there

1230
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: is a lot of MJ still and and task whether

1231
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: or not this is yeah, gonna be the definitive MJ

1232
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 1: doc that we that we get and this is it

1233
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: and this is the best it will get. Or maybe

1234
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: that's to come down the line, like you said, as

1235
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 1: he as he ages even more and he's willing to

1236
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 1: share some of these more personal stories we did get

1237
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:34,280
Speaker 1: this like childhood MJ part and the cool clips older

1238
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 1: clips of his father speaking and stuff like that. I

1239
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: thought that was really insightful too, like of like, wow,

1240
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: maybe yeah, that's why MJ is Maybe like that, like

1241
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 1: that whole father son dynamic where you know, get in

1242
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: the house, you don't even you don't even know what

1243
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 1: a Phillip screwdriver is, you dummy, Like you know, a

1244
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 1: man get in there with your mom and like him

1245
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: just trying to always uh you know, I guess, like

1246
00:56:57,840 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: get the love of his father or prove to him

1247
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: that he something else. I thought that was pretty cool

1248
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 1: that they slipped out in there.

1249
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 3: God yeah, and I love his dad and I loved

1250
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 3: the character of his dad and that you love the

1251
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 3: dynamic between him and Ronnie, his older brother, And I

1252
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 3: guess it just proves every man has daddy issues. That's far.

1253
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 3: That's too much to say. It's too much to say that,

1254
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 3: but a lot of men have daddy issues, just like MJ.

1255
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 3: MJ had daddy issues. And yes, so I, like you said,

1256
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 3: I hope, I hope that's revealed later on in a

1257
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 3: doc because, as Ramona Shelburne said, MJ just he's not

1258
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 3: comfortable being now in his fifties with letting it all go.

1259
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 3: He's still in a battle with father time. He's still

1260
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 3: competitive with father father time. He will not he will

1261
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 3: not give in quite yet, but maybe one day he

1262
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 3: will and we'll get even more of that stuff because

1263
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 3: it it is great, and it wasn't It was hard

1264
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 3: not to like, you know, the story Pippin's backstory, and

1265
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,439
Speaker 3: it was hard not to love MJ's backstory there too.

1266
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: That spins into Jordan breaking his foot in nineteen eighty

1267
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: five and this story that I had no idea of

1268
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: him secretly playing at unc OH. Yeah, like I didn't

1269
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: know that at all. Definitely, you know, not an MG

1270
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: expert by any means, but that was new to me.

1271
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 1: And then even like when he comes back, he's limited

1272
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: to the fourteen minutes per game, even though the Bulls

1273
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: are sort of in the weirdest playoff run. Remember when

1274
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: do they make the playoffs with thirty wins or something?

1275
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 4: H fifty two here, Oh.

1276
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 2: Well, it's the second worst record ever. The worst record

1277
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 2: was actually the Bulls as well, in like sixty seven

1278
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 2: sixty eight, they went twenty nine and fifty three. But yeah,

1279
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 2: that I knew they had a bad record, but I

1280
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 2: thought it was like thirty eight and forty four or

1281
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 2: something like that, not thirty and fifty two.

1282
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: And that is where like really the seeds of like

1283
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: mistrust right with ownership and like Jerry Crows and like

1284
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: that's where that is really starts with MJ specifically, like

1285
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: this idea of like what do you know I'm not

1286
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: not playing or you only got me on these limited minutes,

1287
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: like and you know, yeah, the doctors say ten percent

1288
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 1: chance I could hurt myself, but well what about the

1289
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 1: other ninety percent? Like I want to play and if

1290
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: I play, we're playing to win and I don't care

1291
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: who we're playing against, what seed we are and all

1292
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: that like where you can see like it's so different

1293
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 1: to today's NBA, where it's like a lot more of

1294
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: people will be like, no, I don't play, like get

1295
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: a draft pick, help yourself for the future, set it

1296
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 1: up for the long run. But you know that's just

1297
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: not that's not MJ's. That is not in his ethos

1298
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: to like play the long game. If I can play,

1299
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 1: I can play, and we're gonna try and win. That's

1300
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: where it really starts, right like that sort of you know,

1301
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: break between ownership and MG and the players.

1302
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 2: I thought, Yeah, And a great a great quote there

1303
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 2: from Jordan when when Jerry Reinstorf said to him, like,

1304
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 2: you know, you've got a ten percent chance of re

1305
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 2: injuring it, and if you do, your career may be over.

1306
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 2: And he said, talks about the ninety percent. And then

1307
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 2: and then Jerry says, well, what if you had a headache,

1308
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 2: you know, and I gave you ten pills and nine

1309
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 2: of them could have could cue the headache, and one

1310
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 2: won't would you take it?

1311
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: And one would kill you?

1312
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 2: One would kill you? Yeah, And he has to think

1313
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:05,919
Speaker 2: about it for like less than a second. Then he's like, well,

1314
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 2: how bad is the fucking headache? Like you know that?

1315
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 2: That I think is just a great sort of insight

1316
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 2: again into the drive of Jordan that like he's willing

1317
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 2: to risk whatever it takes to win, which ultimately, you know,

1318
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 2: wasn't all that significant in the grand scheme of things.

1319
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 2: A young player and a young team. They weren't challenging

1320
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 2: for a title, as Rhinsdorf says, there but Jordan's still

1321
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: wasn't prepared to give up at any point on the season.

1322
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 2: You know, he wanted to win. He wanted to get

1323
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 2: into the playoffs, and just again to every single game

1324
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 2: for him was so important and I thought it was

1325
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 2: great that you know, you get you get to that

1326
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 2: game against the Paces where they have to win, and

1327
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 2: he's on the he's on the stopwatch for like you're

1328
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 2: only playing fourteen minutes, seven minutes.

1329
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 5: And the Okay, this doesn't make sense though, because in

1330
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 5: that game he played twenty eight minutes. Yeah, right, so

1331
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 5: I guess it was fourteen minutes per half.

1332
01:00:58,000 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I guess that.

1333
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: Well, he said that, right, right, or it changed to

1334
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: I guess yeah.

1335
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 5: I think it changed when he first came back, he

1336
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,919
Speaker 5: played thirteen fourteen, fifteen, sixteen sixteen, and then they worked

1337
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 5: their way up there. It wasn't just the fact that

1338
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 5: he was playing fourteen minutes and then then the regular

1339
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 5: season ends and they're like, okay, go play forty eight.

1340
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, that doesn't make any sense, but we got.

1341
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 5: A yeah, I think we got a little little cross

1342
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 5: wires here for the for the minutes limit. But yeah,

1343
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,959
Speaker 5: I mean it's crazy to think what a sliding doors moment.

1344
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 5: If John Packson doesn't hit that shot, maybe we never

1345
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 5: see Jordan get sixty three in the playoffs. Maybe the

1346
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 5: Balls get the number one draft pick, they draft Patrick

1347
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 5: Ewing and then they never win any championships.

1348
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting for me that it was Packson who

1349
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 2: hit that game winner as well, because you know, you

1350
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 2: look a look at Jerry Ryn's doves loyalty to Jerry

1351
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 2: Kraft throughout, and then you look at where John Paxson

1352
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 2: up until you know, well you still kind of on

1353
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 2: the in the organization. But Jerry Ryn's all very, very

1354
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 2: loyal to his guys, and you know, John Paxson was

1355
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 2: winning games for them back in nineteen eighty six there,

1356
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 2: so you know, he had a long established relationship that

1357
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 2: you know, you can sort of just see that the

1358
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 2: beginnings of it back then. But the fact that Stan

1359
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 2: that was.

1360
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 5: Crazy to me that he became basically what Jerry Krause became.

1361
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 5: He fought Vinnie del Nigro over playing Joe Kim Noah

1362
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 5: too many minutes over a minute limit? Like how did

1363
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 5: how did he see what happened with Jordan and the

1364
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 5: balls and then become Jerry Krause out of it? That

1365
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 5: doesn't make any sense to me. Well, I guess it

1366
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,919
Speaker 5: was explained why he was around for another fifteen.

1367
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 2: Yeah years, I guess that's it. I mean, if that's

1368
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 2: his relationship with Hinstorf was the same as Jerry Krause,

1369
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 2: I guess Reinstorf was okay with it, but the fact

1370
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 2: that stan Alback was like, if you play a second

1371
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 2: over this this minute's limit, I'm going to get fired,

1372
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 2: And he didn't want to even go over it by

1373
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 2: fourteen seconds, which you know again like that's just I guess.

1374
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 2: I guess stan Albeck was like, if I do it,

1375
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 2: there's absolutely no way I'm not going to get fired.

1376
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 2: So he tried to at least keep his job in

1377
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 2: that sense, and fortunately it worked out for him that

1378
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 2: they that they won that game and went on to

1379
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 2: make the playoffs.

1380
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, they go to the playoffs play the Celtics sixty

1381
01:02:56,440 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: seven win team Celtics in the eighty six playoffs and

1382
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: Jordan the famous game too double overtime. Yeah, sixty three,

1383
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: five and six, he throws up, I had forgotten about

1384
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: you going for forty nine in Game one too. Yeah,

1385
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 1: and it is. I will say, it always blows my

1386
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: mind when you get the clips of Larry Bird, Magic Johnson,

1387
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: you know, like guys on the Mount rushmore of the

1388
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: greatest players of all time, and they are, you know

1389
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: yet at the time, not just now after seeing what

1390
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: Jordan became, but basically at the time saying like, this

1391
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 1: guy's the best basketball player I've ever seen. Like that

1392
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: is so wild to me that the greatest basketball players

1393
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: that a lot of people have ever seen are saying, Oh, yeah,

1394
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 1: this guy, this young guy, he's got he's gonna be

1395
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 1: the best if he gets the right guys around him.

1396
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 1: He's the best. He's we can just tell. And it's

1397
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: so so surreal to me that they're admitting it. The

1398
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 1: most competitive people in the world to some degree saying oh, yeah,

1399
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: he's better than I am. He's just you know, doesn't

1400
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 1: have a team that I have right now. So crazy

1401
01:03:57,960 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: to me.

1402
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And some people regod that Celtics eighty sixteen is

1403
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 2: the best team ever as well. And here's Larry Bird,

1404
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,959
Speaker 2: you know, the MVP, the star of that team, saying, man,

1405
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 2: this is God dressed up as or God in disguise

1406
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 2: as Michael Jordan out there, and you see, like it's

1407
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 2: it's pretty cool those clips. How so many people, different

1408
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 2: players try to defend Jordan. There's the classic Rick Carlile there,

1409
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 2: who looks like it looks like that he looks like

1410
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 2: a schoolboy really out there and just kind of like

1411
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 2: really demoralized that he's like, why am I even defending

1412
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 2: this guy? But that that classic move where Jordan, you know,

1413
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 2: dribbles under his legs three times and hits the jump shot.

1414
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 2: Larry Bird's chasing him around, trying to get close to him,

1415
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 2: and he can't get anywhere near him. And yeah, I mean,

1416
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 2: you know, quite humble of the Celtics. Really, Bill Walton's

1417
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 2: angry that he bowls out in that game that you

1418
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 2: know these legends, yeah, exactly, you know this team, this

1419
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 2: is this legendary Celtics team that has won championships already,

1420
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 2: humbly kind of saying, wow, Jordan's better than anyone on

1421
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 2: our team, but we're just a better team really, you know,

1422
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 2: pretty fascinating moment there, and again you talk about the

1423
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 2: athleticism that you of Jordan a couple of those players

1424
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 2: where he jumps up and it's like he's taken three

1425
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 2: guys almost in the air and still getting the ball

1426
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 2: to drop, you know, taking the contact, getting to the

1427
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 2: free throw line, like just it's incredible to look back

1428
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 2: now just how much that he he was so competitive

1429
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 2: and so driven and he was not afraid coming off

1430
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 2: that injury to really throw his body out there. You know,

1431
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 2: we've talked a lot about Joe Moran this year. You know,

1432
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 2: he goes up there sort of haphazardly throwing himself into

1433
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 2: teams and into their defenses. You know, Jordan was doing

1434
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 2: that as well. He was a couple of years into

1435
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 2: his career at least by then. But you know, these

1436
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 2: younger guys not really knowing the consequences of one bad

1437
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 2: fall or one bad hit could could knock you out

1438
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 2: for you know, a season if you get it wrong.

1439
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 1: Do you think Scott Burrell Leader said, hey, MG, congratulations

1440
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 1: on those Miller Player of the Games in the eighty

1441
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 1: six Celtics series and.

1442
01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 2: Shut up anything.

1443
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 1: We get was there anything that tasks or tray you

1444
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 1: like that stuck out to you from you know, seeing

1445
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: these these playoffs that again were a little bit before

1446
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 1: our time in terms of watching, you know, religiously basketball,

1447
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: this eighty six playoff run. I'm sure you've seen the

1448
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 1: games and the clips and stuff, but anything that jumped out.

1449
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 5: How about going golfing with Danny Ainge in between, Yeah,

1450
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 5: during a playoff series so you can meet people will

1451
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 5: get killed if they did that now, But Jordan did

1452
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 5: forty nine and then sixty three after playing I'm probably

1453
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 5: thirty six holes knowing that guy, and I'm sure it

1454
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 5: was in intense holes with him as well.

1455
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 4: But that was pretty That was pretty cool.

1456
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 5: I wish we would actually seen Danny Ainge out there

1457
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 5: on the course, but yeah, I just love the idea

1458
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 5: that Jordan's out there smoking Danny Ainge at golf.

1459
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 4: I'm sure Danny Ainge is probably a good golfer.

1460
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 5: He's obviously an athlete as well a baseball player as well.

1461
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 5: But I just love the idea of Jordan going out

1462
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 5: dominating a basketball game, dominating a golf match, and then

1463
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 5: going out and having an even better basketball game. Meanwhile,

1464
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 5: Walt Frasier, like two years earlier. It is like, this

1465
01:06:58,040 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 5: is a league of seven footers. There's no way this

1466
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 5: guy can do it all himself. Within two years, the

1467
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 5: best players in the league are like, well, our time

1468
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 5: is almost done here.

1469
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, how many quotes did we hear a former player

1470
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:13,439
Speaker 3: saying he's six foot five? What that's not big enough?

1471
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 3: And I guess that's where that that that idea goes where, Hey,

1472
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,439
Speaker 3: you got a bigger player like Greg Oden in the draft,

1473
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 3: got a draft him over Kevin Durant. I mean, that's

1474
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:24,440
Speaker 3: that's where it comes from. It's been around for a

1475
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 3: very very long time. And I was just looking at

1476
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 3: Danny Ainge's baseball card. I guess Danny Ainge was a

1477
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 3: better baseball player than Michael Jordan. I'm not sure if

1478
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 3: he could beat him a golf, but he could probably

1479
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 3: beat him at baseball if they if they stepped up

1480
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 3: onto the heil on what position did Danny Ainge?

1481
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 2: Was it?

1482
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 3: Pitcher? Wasn't I thought he was an too? Yeah?

1483
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 5: You know who was Scottie Burrell, first guy in the

1484
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 5: first round of both the MLB draft and the NBA Draft.

1485
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 5: I think he was a blue Jay pitching prospect if

1486
01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 5: I'm not mistaken.

1487
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, well Scotti revel interesting. Yeah, Danny Ainge definitely played

1488
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 3: for the Jays. I just turned around and looked at him.

1489
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 3: Was up on my wall here nice but beside Jim

1490
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 3: Clancy and Jim Gantner. Yeah, some baseball dudes. Yeah, that

1491
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 3: was It was a blast to watch all that. Also,

1492
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 3: I mentioned all the old, the old idea that you

1493
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 3: got to be bigger to be good, well the old.

1494
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:28,560
Speaker 3: Everybody this year looking at the standings and being like,

1495
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 3: well there's a sub five hundred team in the playoffs.

1496
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 3: Well number one we just talked about the thirty and

1497
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 3: fifty two Bowls went to the postseason with just nuts

1498
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 3: when you think about it, and their first eight games

1499
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 3: of the season that year there four and four. They

1500
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 3: didn't score one hundred points in any of those eight games.

1501
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:52,680
Speaker 3: Gross they lost the Hawks. Gross basketball was different back then.

1502
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:57,600
Speaker 1: Also gross watching Jordan have to putt Jesus, get this

1503
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: guy a custom putter had.

1504
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 4: A bend over, Holy moly.

1505
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: Crunched over like us playing like mini putt with like

1506
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 1: a like a little two foot club.

1507
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 4: It was crazy looking.

1508
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. Actually I thought, actually I thought that may have

1509
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 3: been the worst thing that Michael Jordan did in these

1510
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 3: these first two episodes. He was worried about his character

1511
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:22,200
Speaker 3: being questioned. Well, Scottie Pippen said Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan

1512
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:25,679
Speaker 3: bought him a set of golf clubs only to lure

1513
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 3: him in into gambling on golf to lose money. If

1514
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 3: he really did that, I know, Michael Jordan's most competitive

1515
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,680
Speaker 3: dude in the world, But if he really tried to

1516
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 3: take money off a guy who signed a seven year,

1517
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 3: eighteen million dollar contract was making pennies in comparison to MJ,

1518
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 3: and was sending it back to his family. I mean,

1519
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 3: that's the most asshole thing.

1520
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 1: That's low. Yeah, anybody but Pippin take anybody but anybody's money,

1521
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 1: but Pippin after that contract.

1522
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:55,599
Speaker 3: Take it from Scattie, a two sport athlete.

1523
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: We then get, at one point, you know again Kraus

1524
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 1: building the team and UH and getting some obviously some

1525
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 1: some credit for like you said Lee earlier, getting Horace Grant,

1526
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:11,960
Speaker 1: getting Pippen in eighty seven, and then doing the UH

1527
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: training Oakley, who was the enforcer MJ's buddy too for

1528
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 1: Bill cart right in eighty eight. I wish we had

1529
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 1: a chance to hear from Oakley on that matter, because

1530
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 1: that is, uh, you know, that's a crazy what if

1531
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 1: Kurtwright was huge from them? I get that, but man,

1532
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 1: it's Oakley goes to the Knicks and then just gets

1533
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,759
Speaker 1: embarrassed a lot of the time by MJ's Bulls.

1534
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 2: Later on.

1535
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:36,800
Speaker 5: We saw him in the dock, and you would think

1536
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 5: we'll hear more from him at some point, just because

1537
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 5: you know, the Knick's rivalry and the friendship with Jordan.

1538
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 4: But I mean, there was basically one scene of.

1539
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 5: Charles Oakley as a youngster playing with the bulls and

1540
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 5: he's just slapping Scottie Pippen in the face. So I

1541
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 5: mean maybe it was a tough call to ship him out,

1542
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:54,600
Speaker 5: but also he's just slapping people in the face, and

1543
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 5: Scotty fps like I'm just happy to be here.

1544
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 4: Nice slap, bud.

1545
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was That was one of those clips I

1546
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 1: had seen before. I'm sure you have as well. I

1547
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 1: remember that making the blog rounds once, like way way

1548
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: back maybe in the ball Don't Lies days, that clip

1549
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 1: somehow surfaced of Okally just pushing Pipot up against the

1550
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 1: blackboard and slapping them like god weird way of showing love.

1551
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 1: Nora's number one question watching this was why is this

1552
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: taking so long? Come out? And I like, yeah, I mean,

1553
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 1: oh yeah, this is like what how old is this now?

1554
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 1: Twenty two years? Yeah, something like that. So I'm like, well, yeah,

1555
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 1: the backstory is that.

1556
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 2: What is it?

1557
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:39,600
Speaker 1: Michael Thompson's brother of all people, is like, goes to

1558
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,519
Speaker 1: NBA Entertainment says, you know, we should be filming this.

1559
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 1: They are the Beatles, like, we should be documenting the Bulls.

1560
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 3: Right now, you work there, right, and Thompson as well

1561
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 3: as Adam Silver at the time NBA Entertainment basically exactly,

1562
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,679
Speaker 3: we need to document this thing. Those those two guys said,

1563
01:11:55,720 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 3: we need to do it. And then Michael Jordan was

1564
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 3: given permission he would be able to approve absolutely everything

1565
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 3: in the documentary and that's the only way they were

1566
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 3: allowed to film it, and so he didn't green light

1567
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 3: it until twenty sixteen, right.

1568
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's exactly why I told her, was like, yeah,

1569
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 1: other people had tried to do stuff with all this footage,

1570
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:19,680
Speaker 1: and you know, but could never get it off the

1571
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:22,040
Speaker 1: ground because they could never get really mj to sign

1572
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:24,640
Speaker 1: off on it. And he finally has and now we have,

1573
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 1: you know, the director getting two years to work on

1574
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 1: this and obviously the budgets of ESPN and Netflix to

1575
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: throw at it. So yeah, that's why we have it now.

1576
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:35,640
Speaker 1: But it is it's strange that this footage has just

1577
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 1: been or a lot of this footage has just been

1578
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 1: sitting you know in Secacas, right just in a vault

1579
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: somewhere and finally saw the light of the day. Lee,

1580
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:47,040
Speaker 1: did you have a funny moment or random observation or

1581
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: even like I don't know, or never before seen clip

1582
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 1: that you loved from episode two?

1583
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 2: Bob Costas gn Yeah, it's incredible because you see ball

1584
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:00,640
Speaker 2: but he still looks great today. It looks great, but

1585
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:03,759
Speaker 2: seeing him back then, the sort of blonde, almost moppy

1586
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,760
Speaker 2: sort of hairstyle there was was pretty fascinating. But it

1587
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 2: just shows as well, you know, guys like him who

1588
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,719
Speaker 2: have been around for the entire journey, you know, seeing

1589
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,439
Speaker 2: Jordan as a young Jordan and then being you know,

1590
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 2: still sort of a sports journalist now sports reporter now,

1591
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:21,719
Speaker 2: like he's been around and he could have seen everything

1592
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 2: because he calls that last game too, of Jordan, you know,

1593
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 2: he's on the NBC call the for the ninety eight series. Yeah,

1594
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 2: so it's good. I'm sure we're going to see you

1595
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 2: more from Bob. But I certainly hadn't seen that clip

1596
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 2: of him before where he was just the young man,

1597
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 2: young handsome man, making the rounds, reporting on the on

1598
01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 2: the sports. So is he a Chicago guy, Tray.

1599
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1600
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:46,600
Speaker 5: I actually didn't know he was WJ in Chicago, so

1601
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 5: perhaps perhaps not. But I just know he was looking

1602
01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 5: like Mark Hamill out there.

1603
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 1: Yea, Trey, what about you? In terms of funny moments

1604
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 1: or random observation.

1605
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 5: Peppin to me obviously had the line of the episode

1606
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 5: when he was explaining why he didn't want to have

1607
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 5: surgery on his ankle and he got it done right

1608
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 5: before the season started.

1609
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:10,120
Speaker 4: I just didn't, you know, want to my summer.

1610
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 5: Up, Scotty Pippen just want to party, man, The guy's

1611
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:15,440
Speaker 5: on top of the world, just won his fifth championship.

1612
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 5: He just wants to relax, have fun in the summer,

1613
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:20,880
Speaker 5: and then get his ankle fixed right before the season started.

1614
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 5: But I thought that was so brilliant to have that

1615
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 5: contrasted with Jordan breaking his foot his second season and

1616
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 5: then basically rehabbing it himself saying there's no way I'm

1617
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 5: going to stay away from basketball as long as you

1618
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:34,120
Speaker 5: guys want me to. Meanwhile, Pippin, in the midst of

1619
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 5: a title run, is willing to jeopardize team success because

1620
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 5: he's mad at the GM, which I mean, he was

1621
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:45,599
Speaker 5: understandably mad, but I think it just really factors into

1622
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 5: how angry Jordan was at the start of the ninety

1623
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:49,840
Speaker 5: seven ninety eight season because it's all these things.

1624
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 4: He's basically being ushered out.

1625
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:56,040
Speaker 5: His running mate is intentionally missing the season, and he

1626
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 5: knows his coach is going to be gone as well. Meanwhile,

1627
01:14:58,360 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 5: the one guy who keeps showing up on the bus

1628
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 5: guy he despises. So even Jordan saying he is angry

1629
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 5: to me is like a big step because if Michael

1630
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 5: Jordan's willing to admit he was angry and mean to people,

1631
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 5: he must have been very angry.

1632
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, if Jordan continuously calling himself, if she did it twice,

1633
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 3: I think during during this episode was shocking to me.

1634
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,880
Speaker 3: A guy who likes to hold his grudges in MJ

1635
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:24,840
Speaker 3: I thought would sort of understand that Scott he would

1636
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 3: have a grudge for her for several seasons, but you know,

1637
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:31,240
Speaker 3: he wanted to win, I guess, and that that wasn't

1638
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 3: the winning thing to do was to party that summer,

1639
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:36,880
Speaker 3: But I guess, I guess the Chicago was happening in

1640
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:39,040
Speaker 3: the summer of nineteen ninety seven and you just wanted

1641
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 3: a couple of months to to throw down with Bob

1642
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,719
Speaker 3: Costs probably wasn't around then, but other guys in Chicago.

1643
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:47,040
Speaker 4: JD.

1644
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 1: Did you have anything that stuck out to you from

1645
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:51,000
Speaker 1: episode two that you like well?

1646
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 6: From both of the episodes, I love the way, just

1647
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:58,320
Speaker 6: from a story telling point of view, how they would

1648
01:15:58,360 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 6: put a pin in something and then they would go

1649
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:03,000
Speaker 6: back in time, and the way visually how they did

1650
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 6: that was really cool, just like a snapshot with the

1651
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 6: year and then you're sort of you go backwards in

1652
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:13,759
Speaker 6: time along a literal timeline. Stylistically, it was awesome, especially

1653
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 6: for young people I think as well, Like.

1654
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:23,360
Speaker 3: You know, people we remember decade to decade that MJ

1655
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:26,479
Speaker 3: was there or in North Carolina at the beginning of

1656
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 3: the eighties, but these they're all just numbers to young people, yeah,

1657
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 3: who were born in the late nineties, in the early

1658
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:36,640
Speaker 3: two thousands, So yeah, seeing that numerical the year I

1659
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:41,680
Speaker 3: think it's pretty important. And also just to note, not stylistically,

1660
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 3: but Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, even back in those days,

1661
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 3: use the word like a lot and thought I thought

1662
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 3: that was a thing of the twenty tens. I thought

1663
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 3: that was just a commonplace in the twenty tens. I

1664
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:00,320
Speaker 3: didn't think that existed in two thousands. We watched Love

1665
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 3: in Basketball where Omar App's character uses the D for

1666
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:07,920
Speaker 3: euphemism for penis back in two thousand. I didn't think

1667
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 3: that existed back then. But I had no idea that

1668
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:14,360
Speaker 3: people said like so much in the eighties. Yeah, I

1669
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 3: had no idea. You tell me, JD.

1670
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:18,639
Speaker 6: My dad used to be all over me every time

1671
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 6: I said every time at the dinner table. He would

1672
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 6: me and my brother, who was just it was horrible.

1673
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 6: He would beat it out of us, not literally, but

1674
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 6: just like he would just like like like is it

1675
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:35,320
Speaker 6: like this or is it not like this? And I

1676
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:37,559
Speaker 6: caught myself doing it to my own kid the other day, so.

1677
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've heard you do it before, I heard you

1678
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 3: hate it before.

1679
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 1: My one random observation from episode two, and this is

1680
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 1: really only for the Canadians out there, but I love

1681
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 1: how much. Sam Smith looks like a real life version

1682
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 1: of Sam Crenshaw from Today's Special.

1683
01:17:57,040 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 4: Again.

1684
01:17:57,360 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 1: That one maybe is just for the Canadians, but it's

1685
01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 1: it's and I think he's so good in this one too.

1686
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 1: I just love how joyful he is in recalling some

1687
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:10,559
Speaker 1: of the stories and talking about the characters in this. Yeah,

1688
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 1: so far, you know, so good. After only two episodes,

1689
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:15,840
Speaker 1: I was I was hooked, and oh, man, guys, I

1690
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 1: mean just quickly I was grow I was going through

1691
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 1: some things last night. I'm in a new place, I've

1692
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 1: just moved, and I thought, you know, nine o'clock's gonna

1693
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:29,680
Speaker 1: come around. I've got an ESPN Plus subscription, all right,

1694
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be able to watch this, you know,

1695
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 1: in live time with everybody else and tweet away with

1696
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:36,519
Speaker 1: everybody else. And then I soon found out about nine

1697
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:41,120
Speaker 1: oh one. Uh oh, you can't watch it live on

1698
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:45,559
Speaker 1: ESPN Plus. It'll go up, you know, right after it airs.

1699
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:48,240
Speaker 1: So I guess it went up at eleven. So I

1700
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 1: was quite angry for a good forty five minutes. Didn't

1701
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: know that part, didn't.

1702
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:53,679
Speaker 3: Know that part.

1703
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:56,320
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, oh, well, what do I do now?

1704
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:58,639
Speaker 1: So I stayed up I watched. I actually watched episode

1705
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:01,000
Speaker 1: one last night because I wait, you know, I stay

1706
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:02,479
Speaker 1: up till eleven to watch that, and then I went

1707
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 1: to bed and watched episode two this morning, which maybe

1708
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:09,680
Speaker 1: actually helped differentiate them a little bit, because I'm sure

1709
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:11,200
Speaker 1: if you just watch them together, it's a little bit

1710
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 1: more like two hour movie.

1711
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, blend, definitely, yeah, definitely blended in a little bit more,

1712
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 2: I think in that respect. But but but it's good

1713
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 2: that the story just sort of continued like that. You know,

1714
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:23,560
Speaker 2: you're sort of like I was so impatient on the

1715
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 2: commercial breaks. I'm like, come on that one, because I'm

1716
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 2: watching on Hulu's all right, so you can't fast forward.

1717
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,000
Speaker 2: So if you have to, like you know, for if

1718
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 2: you glitch or whatever and you lose a second, you

1719
01:19:33,160 --> 01:19:35,920
Speaker 2: can you can fast forward during the during the actual action,

1720
01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 2: but if you're in the commercial, you got to sit

1721
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:38,200
Speaker 2: through it.

1722
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 1: So yeah, look, it could be worse. Like a lot

1723
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:44,880
Speaker 1: of international people are just catching this today. Right on Monday,

1724
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 1: I think it went up for a lot of people

1725
01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:48,800
Speaker 1: all over the world. And I'm with you, Lee, you

1726
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,600
Speaker 1: slipped it in there. I'm actually maybe this is just

1727
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 1: because we have nothing else to talk about we were

1728
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:55,560
Speaker 1: doing podcasts on NBA horse for crying out loud, but like,

1729
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:59,559
Speaker 1: I'm preferring this like two on Sunday and then another

1730
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:02,120
Speaker 1: two next Sunday and after that and after that then

1731
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 1: putting these in the NBA Finals, like on the off nights.

1732
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:08,880
Speaker 1: That's where it was originally going to go. And yeah,

1733
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:10,840
Speaker 1: you know, fine, that would have been great too. It

1734
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:12,400
Speaker 1: would have, of course been talking about it.

1735
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:14,200
Speaker 4: But I like it by itself.

1736
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 1: It's like such a more of an event without actual

1737
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 1: real NBA basketball going on, So in a weird way,

1738
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 1: it oddly worked out.

1739
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 5: I think it definitely feels like the nineties going back

1740
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:25,880
Speaker 5: and watching the Bulls and everybody's watching the Bulls.

1741
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:28,400
Speaker 4: That was my childhood growing up, no doubt about it.

1742
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,200
Speaker 5: But uh yeah, maybe watching one and two separate is

1743
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:33,759
Speaker 5: a good way because it's like, when did Phil Jackson

1744
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 5: show up in a trench coat?

1745
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:37,519
Speaker 4: Was that the first episode of the second episode, Inspector

1746
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:41,640
Speaker 4: jadget what? I thought? That was a crazy look. I

1747
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:44,680
Speaker 4: also love seeing like old Benny the bowl with the

1748
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:46,120
Speaker 4: big fat bottom yep.

1749
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 5: That looks so dated to me now too, But yeah,

1750
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 5: I don't know, it's like this took twenty two years

1751
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:54,679
Speaker 5: to come out. I would have watched it at any

1752
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:56,800
Speaker 5: point in those twenty two years, but I'm happy it's

1753
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,560
Speaker 5: now when there's not really anything else going on and

1754
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:03,560
Speaker 5: you get to see nineties basketball basically an HD. Like

1755
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:05,680
Speaker 5: when they're running out onto the court and you see

1756
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,320
Speaker 5: that shot from behind them and there's like lens players

1757
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:10,760
Speaker 5: coming up. You're like, this just looks incredible to see

1758
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 5: this stuff that looks like it's made with computers, because

1759
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:15,640
Speaker 5: these are basketball players we watched twenty years ago, but

1760
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 5: it looks crystal clear. I just the technology of it

1761
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:20,760
Speaker 5: is amazing to me. It's like, yeah, it would have

1762
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 5: been great to have it at any time, but I'm

1763
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 5: fine with it now.

1764
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:27,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you're right. Shout out to NBA Entertainment

1765
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 1: for actually putting this on film, even though I'm sure

1766
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:32,519
Speaker 1: it was quite expensive back then to follow the team

1767
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:34,960
Speaker 1: task is there? You know, we'll wrap this up here soon,

1768
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:38,600
Speaker 1: But is there anything you're most looking forward to? You

1769
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 1: know in the upcoming eight episodes, be at a particular

1770
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:44,040
Speaker 1: angle you think they're gonna go with, or a particular player,

1771
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:45,560
Speaker 1: a character, what are you most looking forward to?

1772
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:51,080
Speaker 3: Well, for a guy like Michael Jordan, to come out

1773
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:55,439
Speaker 3: now and say that I'm worried about the way I

1774
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:58,840
Speaker 3: will be perceived after this makes me think that there's

1775
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:03,200
Speaker 3: gonna be some real berating. And not just the berating

1776
01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:06,680
Speaker 3: on his head. There's the yelling he's gonna give it

1777
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 3: to somebody he is going to.

1778
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:11,559
Speaker 1: Do because we're saying it wasn't that bad in your nothing,

1779
01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:13,720
Speaker 1: because I agree from the first two episodes that fair

1780
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 1: to say.

1781
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,599
Speaker 3: It wasn't It wasn't anything. Yeah, maybe, and maybe it's

1782
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 3: because he set us up for it. But for a

1783
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 3: guy like MJ who doesn't usually care about stuff like

1784
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:24,639
Speaker 3: he just wanted to win. So him telling Kou coach

1785
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:27,160
Speaker 3: to you know, he got in his face a little bit,

1786
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:28,559
Speaker 3: or Ron Harper got in his face a little bit.

1787
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:30,720
Speaker 3: That doesn nothing. So yeah, I'm looking forward to what

1788
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:32,639
Speaker 3: he's got in store. There's got to be some real

1789
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:35,080
Speaker 3: deep archives, some real deep footage if they follow him

1790
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:38,759
Speaker 3: around for a whole year. You know, the the backstory

1791
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:41,160
Speaker 3: is all great, but I want ninety seven ninety eight,

1792
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:46,479
Speaker 3: the footage that was somewhere in seacaucas some somewhere somewhere

1793
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:49,600
Speaker 3: in there in that in those the archivists had to

1794
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 3: document all that stuff, and it was held separate. It

1795
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 3: was told MJ. We're gonna hold it separate. It'll be said,

1796
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 3: we're not gonna blend it in with anything. So, yeah,

1797
01:22:57,720 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 3: I want to see what those tapes had.

1798
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:00,439
Speaker 2: Lee.

1799
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:01,880
Speaker 1: What about you? What are you're most looking forward to?

1800
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, just the Dennis Rodman story. I think that's coming

1801
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:08,280
Speaker 2: up pretty soon. It's going to be interesting to see

1802
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:11,360
Speaker 2: how his personality intertwined with the others. I mean, a

1803
01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 2: chaotic situation. We know that at that stage of his career,

1804
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 2: Rodman was really he didn't really seem to care. He

1805
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:20,040
Speaker 2: goes wrestling during the finals with m alone, you know,

1806
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 2: you know, we know he goes out drinking and partying

1807
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:24,880
Speaker 2: and all that sort of stuff. So it's going to

1808
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 2: be interesting to see how Jordan and his dynamic works

1809
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 2: because again, Jordan obviously wants to win, we know that.

1810
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:34,759
Speaker 2: And does he you know, does he get any tension

1811
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 2: with Rodman because Rodman goes out there when he plays,

1812
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 2: he competes, and there's no question about that. But does

1813
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:44,120
Speaker 2: the extra curriculous stuff in Rodman's life ever great on Jordan?

1814
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 2: You know, That's what I'm going to look forward to

1815
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:50,519
Speaker 2: seeing and seeing how Jordan manages that relationship. So but right,

1816
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:53,400
Speaker 2: I mean, so you're looking yeah, I bet all. I mean,

1817
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 2: you know, like two episodes in it was great and

1818
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:56,880
Speaker 2: I just yeah, I just want to watch them more.

1819
01:23:57,280 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 2: So I just want to give a quick shout out

1820
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:02,120
Speaker 2: too to trailing Guy's name is Adam Ryan. He has

1821
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 2: the in All Airness podcast and he got a credit

1822
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:09,560
Speaker 2: last night. He made a contribution to this documentary. So

1823
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:11,800
Speaker 2: it's great to see an Australian guy out there who's

1824
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:14,880
Speaker 2: just a Jordan historian, you know, a Bulls fan. He

1825
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:17,160
Speaker 2: grew up in Australia like me, and he was able

1826
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 2: to contribute to this feature. So that's just speaking of that.

1827
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:24,600
Speaker 1: Was there not a shot of the exact poster that

1828
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:27,120
Speaker 1: you had obviously in your bedroom and then brought to

1829
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 1: the starters set? That was the exact poster, right exactly?

1830
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. Yeah, I saw that as it was

1831
01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 2: going along. You reminded me I want to go back

1832
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:37,040
Speaker 2: and find the exact spot of that. But that's right.

1833
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:40,519
Speaker 2: That that's from Jordan's rookie season there, which is which

1834
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:42,720
Speaker 2: was incredible. So there that to see that, because that's

1835
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 2: the one I dug out yesterday and I looked at

1836
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:46,560
Speaker 2: and I put it out on social media. So to

1837
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 2: see it in the documentary, Wow, yeah, that's awesome.

1838
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:52,880
Speaker 4: Well it's good to see some Australian get a little

1839
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:54,720
Speaker 4: bit of credit because where was Luke Longley for all this?

1840
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:57,280
Speaker 4: I know, well, I guess we know, Kucko, Jim Hoppin.

1841
01:24:57,320 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 4: We'll get to them and all.

1842
01:24:58,760 --> 01:25:01,400
Speaker 2: I'm expecting Luke's going to have double episode himself. Surely.

1843
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:07,320
Speaker 1: Why don't you get some point they'll only air in Australia. Yeah, Trey,

1844
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:09,400
Speaker 1: to wrap it up here, what are you most looking

1845
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:09,680
Speaker 1: forward to?

1846
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:11,599
Speaker 4: Tascin Lee nailed him.

1847
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:15,679
Speaker 5: Anything behind the scenes, any locker room scene, any practice scene,

1848
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:17,559
Speaker 5: any of the stuff that we just haven't seen before

1849
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 5: is must watch. And I think the Rodman episode is

1850
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:23,400
Speaker 5: gonna be insane because if it just focuses on his

1851
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:26,000
Speaker 5: time in the Bulls, like, that's gonna be a crazy episode.

1852
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:29,880
Speaker 5: But Rodman was despised by Bulls fans because of the

1853
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 5: run ins with Pippen and Jordan when he played with them,

1854
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:36,360
Speaker 5: when he played with the Pistons, like he sent Pippen

1855
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:38,640
Speaker 5: into the stanchion like the guy was one of the

1856
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 5: least like players as a Bulls fan that I can

1857
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:44,400
Speaker 5: remember growing up. It's like him and Lambier and then

1858
01:25:44,479 --> 01:25:47,599
Speaker 5: suddenly he becomes the Bulls. But we hear Jordan's okay

1859
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:49,000
Speaker 5: with it because all he wants to do is win

1860
01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:50,720
Speaker 5: and if this is gonna help, it's gonna help. But

1861
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:52,960
Speaker 5: there's got to be some sort of tension when that

1862
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 5: guy comes into practice after he is basically trying to

1863
01:25:56,560 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 5: hurt the Bulls and then a lot of them are

1864
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:00,560
Speaker 5: still there. So to see them actually be able to

1865
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 5: work it out and make that relationship work for three

1866
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:06,519
Speaker 5: years despite the fact that you know, Rodman just wasn't

1867
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:08,559
Speaker 5: showing up by the end of it, and like you're saying,

1868
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:12,240
Speaker 5: was going and releasing books and wrestling Karl Malone. Like

1869
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:14,280
Speaker 5: there's a whole lot of stuff that we're going to

1870
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:16,200
Speaker 5: learn about Dennis Rodman, and we've learned a lot of

1871
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:18,160
Speaker 5: it with his thirty for thirty and you know, he's

1872
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:20,920
Speaker 5: pretty open with his life in general. But just seeing

1873
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:23,280
Speaker 5: that relationship between Jordan Pippen and Rodman, it's going to

1874
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 5: be crazy for sure.

1875
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:26,840
Speaker 1: All Right, Well, we'll call it there. That's it for

1876
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:29,040
Speaker 1: this podcast. We're going to hit the beach a day earlier.

1877
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:32,160
Speaker 1: Than normal, So get your NBA questions and comments in asap,

1878
01:26:32,280 --> 01:26:35,080
Speaker 1: email us nodunks at the Athletic dot Com, tweet them

1879
01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:37,679
Speaker 1: in at No Dunks Inc. Hashtag No Dunks that Beat

1880
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:40,639
Speaker 1: Step In podcast will drop on Tuesday of this week,

1881
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,439
Speaker 1: and then on Wednesday we are going to talk to

1882
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:47,400
Speaker 1: Ethan Sherwood Strauss about his new book, The Victory Machine.

1883
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 1: That is about the making and unmaking of the Golden

1884
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 1: State Warriors dynasty. So sort of interesting timing here talking

1885
01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:59,320
Speaker 1: to Sherwood Strouss about the Warriors coming to Juggernaut and

1886
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:01,760
Speaker 1: then what happened with them with Katie leaving, all while

1887
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:05,160
Speaker 1: this is going on reliving the Bulls dynasty. So that

1888
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:07,679
Speaker 1: should be fun. Shaping up to be a fun week here, boys.

1889
01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:09,720
Speaker 1: So Clipper Bros take us out.

1890
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 4: You heard it here first, have a great time, turn up,

1891
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:13,679
Speaker 4: Love you guys awesome.

1892
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:16,639
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us. And remember, as Larry Bird said,

1893
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 3: God was dressed as Jordan that day.

1894
01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:20,920
Speaker 1: Embrace the day.

1895
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 3: People.

1896
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:25,759
Speaker 4: You could stay boom every day.

1897
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:29,719
Speaker 2: And I'll be happy every minute.

1898
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:38,559
Speaker 4: It's been so long that your no Wana ways, it's

1899
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:39,479
Speaker 4: happened already.

1900
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:42,280
Speaker 3: It's gonna be grevy