Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from how
Speaker 1: stuff dot com by their kids, and welcome to tech stuff.
Speaker 1: My name is Chris Poulette, and I am an editor
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. But you may have
Speaker 1: known that already sitting across me, as usual is senior
Speaker 1: writer Jonathan Stricklin. Hey there, you might have also known
Speaker 1: that already. So, um, Chris, tell me if you recognize
Speaker 1: this quote. Okay, Jonathan, you may not. You may not.
Speaker 1: It's a it's it's it's one that I've seen bandied
Speaker 1: about a bit since uh we started talking about this topic.
Speaker 1: But endy inventions reach their limit long ago, and I
Speaker 1: see no hope for further development. Um. It is not
Speaker 1: the patent office, which is the other famous one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That that is a funny, funny quote. This is Julius
Speaker 1: Frontinus of the first century a d. A Roman engineer
Speaker 1: who worked in the water. Uh the management essentially back
Speaker 1: in the back in the day, which was a Thursday.
Speaker 1: Um he uh sorry, I almost a he uh so Yeah,
Speaker 1: he said back then like inventions had to reach their limit,
Speaker 1: and then that's it. We are. We have gone about
Speaker 1: as fur as we could go. As people in Oklahoma
Speaker 1: would say, and I'm talking about Oklahoma, the musical, not
Speaker 1: the state. But it's okay. Uh the he Yeah, he
Speaker 1: said that that they, we humans had reached the peak
Speaker 1: of ingenuity. He's not the first person to say that.
Speaker 1: He's not the last person to say that. Another very
Speaker 1: famous quote that's been bandied about recently, again more bandying,
Speaker 1: was from Charles H. Dwell, who was the Commissioner of
Speaker 1: the U. S Office of Patents in eight so just
Speaker 1: before the turn of the century. He said famously, everything
Speaker 1: that can be invented has been invented. Yeah, he submitted.
Speaker 1: That was in his resignation. Yeah, I'm resigning his head
Speaker 1: of the Patent Office because it's all it's all been done. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're done. Yeah, it's just a barnicked lady song. Now
Speaker 1: we're done. And like to hand him. I don't know, Um,
Speaker 1: let's let's think of something obsolete already, like uh, you know,
Speaker 1: eight track tapes, right, and take a look at this
Speaker 1: and this this is something that this is something we
Speaker 1: don't use anymore. Um unless here you can have it,
Speaker 1: unless you're in my dad's car. So yeah, they I'm
Speaker 1: just kidding, just kidding. Yeah, that player hasn't worked for years. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: the two quotes of people famously saying that we have
Speaker 1: reached the level of of ingenuity that we are capable
Speaker 1: of reaching, and nothing beyond that is within our grasp
Speaker 1: and we should just settle down and and make ourselves
Speaker 1: at home. The reason why I bring those up is
Speaker 1: because the topic we're talking about today is the whole
Speaker 1: reason we're talking about is because of a discussion that
Speaker 1: happened online on Facebook, of all places, on Facebook, on Facebook,
Speaker 1: and it was started by a guy named David Sachs
Speaker 1: who was a founder of Yammer Yammer. Uh is this
Speaker 1: Uh it's an enterprise social network, so social network meant
Speaker 1: for businesses and here a popular business social network. He
Speaker 1: founded it and then sold it in June of two
Speaker 1: thousand and twelve to Microsoft for one point to billion
Speaker 1: with a B dollars. It's a princely some princely some. Indeed,
Speaker 1: you could buy a lot of pie with that princely
Speaker 1: some pie. And uh so, yeah, he created this company,
Speaker 1: sold it off to Microsoft. Well, the reason why we're
Speaker 1: talking about this is on Facebook he posted and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna read the full quote. I think Silicon Valley as
Speaker 1: we know it may be coming to an end. In
Speaker 1: order to create a successful new company, you have to
Speaker 1: find an idea that one has escaped the attention of
Speaker 1: the major Internet companies, which are better run than ever before.
Speaker 1: Two is capable of being launched and proven out for
Speaker 1: around five million dollars the typical seed plus Series A investment,
Speaker 1: and three is protectable from the onslaught of those big
Speaker 1: companies once they figure out what you're onto. How many
Speaker 1: ideas like that are left? So he's essentially saying the
Speaker 1: environment that we now all live in is not conducive
Speaker 1: to a small, nimble startup coming out and challenging these
Speaker 1: big goliath companies that are in the text space. Um
Speaker 1: and so saying that it's it's getting increasingly difficult, if
Speaker 1: not impossible, to make a successful company. However, his question
Speaker 1: and how many ideas like that are left? How many?
Speaker 1: How many people can come up with an idea that's effective,
Speaker 1: that is going to capture people's imaginations to get support
Speaker 1: and it has not already been thought of by one
Speaker 1: of these big companies. Uh Well, a fellow by the
Speaker 1: name of Mark and Reason answered that question and said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know that name. Yeah, I'm sure it an escaped you. Um,
Speaker 1: he's so, and reason said an infinite number human creativity
Speaker 1: is limitless, which doesn't make it easy, but does mean
Speaker 1: the opportunity is an ending. So andreeson saying you can't
Speaker 1: put a cap on human ingenuity. Every time we've done that,
Speaker 1: people have proven that it was a premature statement and
Speaker 1: that there are always going to be people out there
Speaker 1: who come up with these great ideas and uh, and
Speaker 1: to say otherwise is not really being honest with yourself. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then there became this big dicussion through lots with
Speaker 1: lots and lots of people, Andresa bombarded the Facebook page
Speaker 1: with about seven or eight comments in a row where
Speaker 1: he was making his points and refuting the points that
Speaker 1: sax had made, and it became a discussion between the two.
Speaker 1: So today we wanted to talk about Silicon Valley. Are
Speaker 1: it's days numbered? Does it even make sense to refer
Speaker 1: to the industry in general as Silicon Valley now? Um?
Speaker 1: And and maybe or are we all just arguing over semantics?
Speaker 1: Could we just agree that Silicon Valley kind of encapsulates
Speaker 1: the idea of the tech industry and it doesn't really
Speaker 1: refer to a geographic region anymore. And once we get
Speaker 1: past that is everything cool. Well yeah, so let I
Speaker 1: guess first we need to talk about what Silicon Valley is.
Speaker 1: It's it's a place, so it's Silicon Valley refers to
Speaker 1: a region in California where a lot of tech companies
Speaker 1: first got their start, big big name tech companies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah there. Uh, as it turns out, there's a university
Speaker 1: out there called Stanford. Yeah. A lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of smarty pants were there in Stanford. Yeah, we've we've
Speaker 1: mentioned that many, many, many many times. Uh, just simply
Speaker 1: because uh, it's it's one of the places where technology
Speaker 1: folks um ended up going to school in the first place.
Speaker 1: And then um, they didn't really go far physically to
Speaker 1: start their companies. They went you know, I like it here.
Speaker 1: So yeah, apart from the earth place that's not really
Speaker 1: whether um not here. The geologic formation is nice apart
Speaker 1: from the earthquakes. Um, but yeah, I mean it's a
Speaker 1: it's a nice place to be around a lot of
Speaker 1: other smart people, and um, you know, even people who
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily go to Stanford, Uh, like Cooper Tino. You know,
Speaker 1: they're garages, right, there are a lot of garages out there. Actually,
Speaker 1: that that's something we should talk about, is that, you know,
Speaker 1: it is something of a trope to talk about Silicon
Speaker 1: Valley and getting your start in a garage, but several
Speaker 1: of them actually did. If you've been listening to tech
Speaker 1: stuff or any like the time, you've actually heard us
Speaker 1: talk about some of these HP started in a garage.
Speaker 1: Google started in a garage. Apple started in a garage.
Speaker 1: Origin Systems, Origin Games, I should say Origin Games started
Speaker 1: in a garage Richard Garriad. Of course that was not
Speaker 1: in California, that was in Texas. But the garage thing, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the garage thing was this, you know, this idea that
Speaker 1: there was a time and perhaps that time is now over,
Speaker 1: but there was a time where and enterprising and innovative
Speaker 1: person or group of people could get together in a
Speaker 1: space like a garage, build a a concept, turn it
Speaker 1: into reality, and make a viable business out of it.
Speaker 1: Not just a viable business, but potentially an empire. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's hard to describe Google as anything other than an
Speaker 1: empire at this point, at least as far as you know,
Speaker 1: Web advertising goes and and Internet search as well, and
Speaker 1: and making big roads into things like smartphone adoption and
Speaker 1: and other areas of technology. Uh that all started in
Speaker 1: you know, building a few servers in a person's garage,
Speaker 1: and then it took off from there. Yeah, and that
Speaker 1: isn't that isn't really too um to put down the
Speaker 1: rest of the technology world, of course, Um, they're famous.
Speaker 1: Other areas where lots of tech companies have gathered, of course,
Speaker 1: Uh the Seattle area in Washington where Microsoft and and
Speaker 1: Nintendo famously have headquarters. Places in Texas around Austin and Dallas,
Speaker 1: you know, t I and and Dell and all those
Speaker 1: guys are down there. Uh you know there. There's lots
Speaker 1: of tech innovation going on in other places, uh around
Speaker 1: m I T in Massachusetts and Harvard they're together, um
Speaker 1: places down here in Atlanta where Georgia Tech is the
Speaker 1: Georgia Institute of Technology. So and other other countries in
Speaker 1: the world too. I mean there are company examples in
Speaker 1: Japan and in Germany and and really any country you
Speaker 1: can you can almost all of the countries have some
Speaker 1: sort of tech presence. Not all of them all, obviously,
Speaker 1: but many of them do. Israel has a strong tech community,
Speaker 1: so that it's it's not that that Silicon Valley is
Speaker 1: the be all and end all, it is not the
Speaker 1: Omega and the alpha or the alpha and the omega. Right. However,
Speaker 1: it did have uh a nifty name. Somebody decided to
Speaker 1: call it Silicon Valley because in the valley right there,
Speaker 1: there are lots of tech companies, and I think that
Speaker 1: at frankly it's it's inadvertently a marketing thing. So we
Speaker 1: we think of tech coming from Silicon Valley. So if
Speaker 1: you think of it as Silicon Valley, the region, uh,
Speaker 1: the actual region, you could you could argue that, yeah,
Speaker 1: the era of Silicon Valley, like new companies coming out
Speaker 1: of Silicon Valley is if not over, uh slowed to
Speaker 1: a crawl because you've got so many established companies there already.
Speaker 1: And frankly, something as practical as the amount of money
Speaker 1: it would take to rent a garage has increased to
Speaker 1: the point where it is prohibitively expensive for a new
Speaker 1: company that doesn't have any money. So if you, if
Speaker 1: you permit me an analogy, sure, um, it sort of
Speaker 1: reminds me of a a want a an up and
Speaker 1: coming actor moving to Los Angeles or New York City.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, to break into movies or TV,
Speaker 1: um to New York City or Broadway at your you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna go up there and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get a job if I can make it there, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, you know, stake out a famous director's house,
Speaker 1: or I'm gonna be on the corner half a because
Speaker 1: I know so and so was discovered there really um
Speaker 1: and you know, Okay, So I'm going to move to
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley and I'm gonna start a brand new tech
Speaker 1: company with this idea I've got, and doesn't it doesn't
Speaker 1: always work like that, yea. So if we if we
Speaker 1: think of Silicon Valley as like that, that physical place,
Speaker 1: then I guess you could argue maybe that, yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: maybe that era is over. But if you look you
Speaker 1: at Silicon Valley more as a general term for the
Speaker 1: technology industry and the idea of small, nimble companies starting
Speaker 1: up and really making a go at it and and
Speaker 1: becoming these big companies later on, like like the Google's
Speaker 1: and the Amazons and the Apples out there and the
Speaker 1: hps UM. I think it might be a little premature
Speaker 1: to call that now, To be fair to Sacks, he
Speaker 1: did later go and and elaborate upon his point. Because
Speaker 1: this was a Facebook status that he posted, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't It was in an article for a magazine or
Speaker 1: newspaper um and I think it was more of a
Speaker 1: thing he was mulling over in his head, and maybe
Speaker 1: we should also be fair, all right, So let's let's
Speaker 1: think about this for a second. His company had just
Speaker 1: earlier than in the summer, been bought by Microsoft, right,
Speaker 1: so he had the experience of building a company up
Speaker 1: and seeing him seeing that company go up against some
Speaker 1: really established, big companies, and he saw that the the
Speaker 1: opportunities for his company to succeed on its own were limited,
Speaker 1: and that it was going to be a very difficult
Speaker 1: road if he chose to keep his company his own
Speaker 1: and not to sell to anyone, it would be really
Speaker 1: hard to make a success story out of it because
Speaker 1: of the competition he faced against these monolithic companies. And
Speaker 1: he has a point. If you come up with an
Speaker 1: idea that's really really uh innovative and is uh is popular,
Speaker 1: that it's only a matter of time before one of
Speaker 1: these other big companies makes a go at that same space.
Speaker 1: You know, they might not be copying your idea, you
Speaker 1: know exactly, but they may be aiming for the same
Speaker 1: general target that you're aiming for, and then they these
Speaker 1: companies have way more resources than you do, so it
Speaker 1: may just be a matter of time before they end up,
Speaker 1: you know, wiping you out. And so his point is saying, uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't, you know, look at my experience, like I
Speaker 1: I sold to Microsoft. So there's some critics who have
Speaker 1: said that he he's taking too narrow a view because
Speaker 1: of his own personal experience with this situation. And in fact,
Speaker 1: I would argue that there are success stories, relative success
Speaker 1: stories out there that contradict what he said. Uh, in
Speaker 1: the sense of think about Twitter. Twitter is the the
Speaker 1: short messaging version of social networks that is popular. Well
Speaker 1: it's not the only one that was out there, and
Speaker 1: and some of them were backed by big companies. Google
Speaker 1: had Jaiku, which was very similar to Twitter. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: acquired Jaiku. They bought Jaiku and you but you there
Speaker 1: you go, You've got Jaiku that was again a smaller
Speaker 1: competitor first and then bought by Google. They suddenly had
Speaker 1: the the power of Google behind them. But that that
Speaker 1: went away. Twitter became the place everyone went to. So
Speaker 1: you know, it is possible, I think, for a company
Speaker 1: to do this because if they do it well. There's
Speaker 1: no guarantee that a giant company is going to do
Speaker 1: it well. They might be able to throw a lot
Speaker 1: of money in it, but doesn't mean that their product
Speaker 1: is going to be compelling enough to convince people to
Speaker 1: use it versus some startups company uh startup product. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, why bother starting something like Facebook when you've
Speaker 1: already got friends too? Yeah? Yeah, I mean that those
Speaker 1: are good arguments though. I mean, granted, Facebook's at a
Speaker 1: level that Frinster never was. But but the point but
Speaker 1: my Space, my Space was was dominating for the longest time,
Speaker 1: and people couldn't even imagine someone dethroning my Space from
Speaker 1: the social uh network scene. And then Facebook did it
Speaker 1: and handily as it turns out. So the I can
Speaker 1: see what what Sacks's point is here. I don't entirely
Speaker 1: agree with it. Now. He did come out and say
Speaker 1: later that he wanted to clarify he thought that if
Speaker 1: if you were to create a startup, you should aim
Speaker 1: for the fringe of what is already out there because
Speaker 1: the big companies he he likened those two redwood trees.
Speaker 1: He's enormous redwoods, right, Yeah, it does. There might be
Speaker 1: especially since he was his company was bought by Microsoft, right,
Speaker 1: so he yeah, but close enough. Um, he's got these
Speaker 1: giant so these giant redwood trees that are casting lots
Speaker 1: of shade on the ground. So to plant a startup
Speaker 1: in the shade, you don't have a lot of chance
Speaker 1: of having it grow. It's not gonna get the sunlight
Speaker 1: it needs. So he says the better thing to do
Speaker 1: is go to the edge of the forest and plant
Speaker 1: your start up there. And what he means by that is,
Speaker 1: don't look to provide a service that one of these
Speaker 1: giant companies already is providing. So we'll use maps as
Speaker 1: an example. Let's say that there's a startup where they
Speaker 1: feel like we've got the killer approach to providing online maps.
Speaker 1: Problem is, you've already got companies that are doing that.
Speaker 1: You've got Apple and you've got Google, both doing it
Speaker 1: in the mobile space and on desktops. So what and
Speaker 1: and there are others as well. Those aren't the only two.
Speaker 1: It's just those are two I just grabbed right at
Speaker 1: the top. So the barrier you have is huge. But
Speaker 1: but if you come up with a service that none
Speaker 1: of these come these are doing yet none of them
Speaker 1: have figured out how to do or they none of
Speaker 1: them have even thought of doing this particular thing. And
Speaker 1: you start a company, then you have a much greater
Speaker 1: chance of success. Um. And I think a lot of
Speaker 1: the people who are initially criticized Sax's point, which again
Speaker 1: you know was probably the first thing he had thought of,
Speaker 1: he hadn't made necessarily, really debated it heavily by the
Speaker 1: time he posted on Facebook. Um, I think they would
Speaker 1: agree with that. I think Andreason would agree with that
Speaker 1: because and Reason's point is that, Yeah, for for a
Speaker 1: large company to go up against a small company, uh,
Speaker 1: it needs to not just be big, but competent. And
Speaker 1: that's a that's a big point because these like I said,
Speaker 1: these big companies might be able to do certain things
Speaker 1: really well, but when it comes to adopting something new,
Speaker 1: that's hard for a big company to do, and they
Speaker 1: may not be as agile exactly and making changes no
Speaker 1: pun intended well. And that that's a natural evolution for
Speaker 1: most companies. Right when when you're a startup, your nimble,
Speaker 1: you can try lots of things and you are, uh,
Speaker 1: you're very quick to act on those things and to
Speaker 1: build your business that way, and you take lots of risks.
Speaker 1: Once you get established, well, then you're looking at stability.
Speaker 1: You're not necessarily looking to continue taking these crazy risks
Speaker 1: because you've got a lot more at stake now. So
Speaker 1: you're looking at how do I sustain what I have
Speaker 1: and build on it without going crazy and running all
Speaker 1: over the place like I did when I was when
Speaker 1: the company was tiny. And so you know, they don't
Speaker 1: have that luxury that the smaller companies have. And so
Speaker 1: they may have the money, and they may have a
Speaker 1: lot of resources, but they might not have the um
Speaker 1: the flexibility to do that. So and that's a good
Speaker 1: point as well. Yeah, I was. I was hardened to
Speaker 1: see that the conversation that they were having was civil
Speaker 1: and productive, you know, unlike some I mean, it was
Speaker 1: primarily the two of them. They did. They did make
Speaker 1: it public. Know, there were there were lots and lots
Speaker 1: of comments. It was a really good discussion. Was not
Speaker 1: a YouTube, which was nice, no, no, um. But you know,
Speaker 1: I was also reading this is one of the reasons
Speaker 1: I was interested in looking at this, UM was I
Speaker 1: was reading recently that about some of the other areas
Speaker 1: in the world that uh, you might not necessarily think
Speaker 1: of as being UH tech stars are sort of coming on,
Speaker 1: you know, making a name for themselves in the tech
Speaker 1: world to UM. Apparently, UH Mexico actually has quite a
Speaker 1: few tech startups UM that have been launching recently. UM,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of American investment. UH. You know,
Speaker 1: you'd think of the venture capitalists out in Silicon Valley
Speaker 1: and other places looking for startups here, but they also
Speaker 1: look abroad and they have been taking notice of a
Speaker 1: lot of the places in Mexico and also in UM
Speaker 1: UH places like Chile, UM where there are venture capital
Speaker 1: funds and in some cases UM like for example, a
Speaker 1: startup Weekend UM, which is a founded or you know,
Speaker 1: gets its money from the Coffin Foundation now has UH
Speaker 1: thirteen chapters in Mexico and that second only to the
Speaker 1: United States. UM and UH there are other governments around
Speaker 1: the world that are are encouraging UH tech innovation. So
Speaker 1: it is very possible that UM, in addition to our
Speaker 1: own literal Silicon Valley, there will be others like it
Speaker 1: UM in other countries all over the world. UM, and
Speaker 1: there will be innovations coming UM for those markets specifically,
Speaker 1: and things that that you know may become global sensations
Speaker 1: in their own right in the years to come. And
Speaker 1: so it's funny because well, uh, he's looking at you know,
Speaker 1: we're talking about the possibility of um silicon valley here
Speaker 1: in the United States sort of waning in its ability
Speaker 1: to generate new products, UM other places uh that maybe
Speaker 1: you know are on the edge of the forest in
Speaker 1: that in that analogy, you know, might be taking off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I read an article on inc I n C
Speaker 1: Business magazine written by Eric Sherman which was titled and
Speaker 1: into Silicon Valley not even close. And Sherman also was
Speaker 1: obviously refuting Sex's points, but there was one thing that
Speaker 1: he said that I don't think was I don't think
Speaker 1: that was sex. He's refuting something that I don't think
Speaker 1: Sex was establishing. And his statement was about how, uh
Speaker 1: the idea about protecting your idea from big companies. And
Speaker 1: one of the problems is that that a small business
Speaker 1: might find itself in is running into patent issues where
Speaker 1: big companies own thousands and thousands of patents and it
Speaker 1: may be that some aspect of that small companies business
Speaker 1: model could infringe upon a patent, and then where did
Speaker 1: they go if they can't license it, then they're out
Speaker 1: of luck. So um, But Sherman says that the big
Speaker 1: companies often buy these smaller companies, Like, how how can
Speaker 1: you say that these aren't viable, because, like you were
Speaker 1: saying with with Jaiku, Google bought them, and you know,
Speaker 1: Google bought the company that designed Android and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. But I think Sax's point was that
Speaker 1: he was talking about the company being successful as its
Speaker 1: own entity, not as something that gets bought by another company.
Speaker 1: And so that that's one point that Sherman makes that
Speaker 1: I don't think addresses what Sex was actually saying. Um.
Speaker 1: I think you know, it's it's access. Idea of success
Speaker 1: means that you are making it based upon the the
Speaker 1: viability of your company and how it can compete in
Speaker 1: the market, not whether or not you're attractive enough to
Speaker 1: get bought. But I think we will definitely sometime in
Speaker 1: the future have to have an episode about companies that
Speaker 1: were designed or seemingly designed from the ground up specifically
Speaker 1: so they would be purchased by another company. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there have been many of those. Yeah, or at
Speaker 1: least that's what it appears to be, you know, because
Speaker 1: sometimes it's hard to tell and Sometimes you see a
Speaker 1: company that gets brought up by another company and you're thinking,
Speaker 1: was that their plan the whole time? Uh? And then
Speaker 1: there's some companies that you would think, well, if that
Speaker 1: was their plan, why haven't they done it yet? Twitter?
Speaker 1: Twitter is the one I always think about, because, you know,
Speaker 1: the whole revenue question for Twitter has been a big
Speaker 1: issue since it launched, and everyone, I think expected someone
Speaker 1: else to weep in and buy Twitter. But at this
Speaker 1: point it might just be too big to be bought,
Speaker 1: at least not for any for anything less than an
Speaker 1: astronomical sum of money. I was gonna say, if Yahoo's
Speaker 1: not too big to buy? Yeah, well yeah, right? Were
Speaker 1: we already talked about you who extensively so that we
Speaker 1: don't need to go back to that that one? All right? Well,
Speaker 1: I think that's a good discussion. I think, I think
Speaker 1: I think Chris and I both agreed that Silicon Valley,
Speaker 1: at least as far as the idea of the startup
Speaker 1: tech industry version of Silicon Valley, is not dead. It's
Speaker 1: definitely more challenging. Yeah, it's more challenging to get a
Speaker 1: company off the ground and make it successful and and
Speaker 1: keep it going without too much interference from the big companies.
Speaker 1: It's definitely harder, but it's not impossible. And it all
Speaker 1: depends on your idea and the execution of it, and
Speaker 1: and that you know, the fact that you have good
Speaker 1: business sense as well as a good you know, just
Speaker 1: a good product. It's a tough combo to get. Not
Speaker 1: everyone can manage it um, but I think it's still attainable.
Speaker 1: So guys, if you have any topic suggestions for things
Speaker 1: that we should talk about on this show, you should
Speaker 1: email us our addresses tech stuff at Discovery dot com
Speaker 1: or drop us a line on Facebook or Twitter, or
Speaker 1: handle it both of those locations. Is tech Stuff, H. S.
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