WEBVTT - Elephant Conservation 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:08.560 Ruby. 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:12.360 Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz. What is the world? 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.360 I'm Marco Went and this This is Amazing Wildlife, a 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:17.920 podcast where we cover unique stories of wildlife from around 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.560 the world and uncover fascinating animal facts. This podcast is 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:25.040 in production with iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio and San Diego Zoo 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.240 Wildlife Alliance, an international nonprofit conservation. 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.080 Organization which oversees this beautiful. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.000 Place, the San Diego Zoo where we are now and 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:33.440 the San Diego Zoo Safari Park. 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:37.559 You know, every time you do that monel like my friend. 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.800 Which it's an intro, but you know, I tend to 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:44.599 like get in sync with our surrounding area. Guess where 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:46.519 we're here at the zoo again. There's a robin flying 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.200 behind you. There is a red shild or hawk cruising around. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.880 We're lucky that we get to go on locations of 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:53.680 this podcast. I know a lot of podcasts are in 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:55.880 studio and sound control and all that, but I think 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.040 we're lucky we get to places. 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.160 And I was remembering, like we were talking about and 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.040 Panda last and we were here in the area at 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:03.760 the zoo right, like we learned a lot of really 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.280 cool things and it made me think of like even 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.800 just like bears in general and where bears live, and 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.360 even like some people live really close to maybe like 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:12.480 a grizzly or a polar air. 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.840 It's actually a big part of the conservation world that 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.039 we have. Yeah, there's humans. They're a big part of 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:20.600 why we need that conservation yea. 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:21.200 Yeah, hundred percent. 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.000 I mean even being a native San Diego you know, 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:24.600 I know they're mountain lying in the area, but it's 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:26.360 something we have to think about. And you know, while 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.199 we were talking about it, we brought this wonderful journal, right. 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:30.039 So for those who. 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.720 Video yet, we brought our scenes a wildlife journal, a 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.280 wildfe Lions Journal. Excuse me, Yeah, that came out in 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:39.840 July and August partly only dropped mine. 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:42.880 Sorry mind so pristine and beautiful. 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:44.720 But even in the cover, man, I means like there's 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.080 a beautiful species right here, like a leopard, right and 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:48.880 then in the middle here there's a really cool title, 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.240 which I want to get props at Peggy, who actually 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:53.280 I learned later came out with the title and we 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:55.280 can talk about a little more. But it's a common ground, right, 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:57.960 and a lot of really interesting facts and stories about 0:01:57.960 --> 0:01:58.920 community and wildlife. 0:01:59.120 --> 0:01:59.320 Yeah. 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:01.200 Yeah, there's two articles that I want to make sure 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:02.800 you know. And this is the benefit of being a 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.120 member of the San Diego Zoo and the Safari Park 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:07.200 is not only do you get the free entrance with 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.600 every visit and guests get all sorts of extra things 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:11.840 that way too, but you get these great stories that 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:13.600 come in and talk a lot about the inside of 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.760 what we do as an organization. And there's one article 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.200 in here about the jaguar and human conflicts that occur 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:20.760 in South and Central America and the work being done 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.440 to help mitigate that, to help change that from being 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.840 a conflict to be living in coexistence. And then the 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.200 other one you mentioned, common Ground, of course, which is 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.639 about all the elephants there in Kenya and work being 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:33.320 done to find common ground for humans and elephants to 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:33.959 live together there. 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:35.519 I know, I mean, I think we should talk about 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:35.720 it more. 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:36.440 I think we should. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:38.600 But instead of you and I just talking about the articles, 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.440 why don't we ask the experts that we have with Oh, I. 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:42.639 Know, we got the experts. Hey, good morning, experts. 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:43.920 Good morning extnie y, good morning. 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:45.360 Go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.320 Let them know who you are and what your title 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:48.320 is here with this organization. 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:50.120 I'm doctor Christy Rupert. 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.720 I am an Associate Director of Community Engagement on our 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.000 Conservation Science where on Life Health team, I get to 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.400 work on the human dimensions of conservation, so understanding how 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.240 people interact with wildlife, how they affect by wildlife conservation, 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.680 and how our conservation hubs can support human wildlife coexistence 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:05.360 around the globe. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.880 This is a small job, that's awesome. 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.160 And I'm doctor Schiffer Goldenberg and I'm a scientist also 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.200 within our Conservation Science and Wildlife Health department, and I 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.800 work mostly in ecological fields and mostly on megafauna, so 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:20.280 large animals that he plants. 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:21.880 Oh wow, that would be. 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:24.919 Here. 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:26.000 Okay, fair enough. 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:27.920 I mean there was a lot to talk about. Can 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.280 you guys highlight a little like what's succor this article 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.120 for you? What impressed you so much about it? 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:34.000 Yeah? Sure, so I can start. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.480 I think part of a collaboration with social science is 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:40.080 really understanding how important those long term relationships are and 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.240 the process of conversation about what the problem is and 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:47.080 what the context is for that conflict and coexistence. And 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:51.400 this work in particular grew out of human leopard coexistence 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.280 work that Kirsty and her colleagues have been leading for 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.440 many years, and it was that collaboration that really allowed 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.520 us to expand into this space of human elephant code systems. 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.880 And part of the reason the conversation really emerged to 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:08.080 the top is reflective of broader trends and patterns in Kenya, 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:11.760 where a lot of our work is centered. The challenges 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:16.839 to elephant populations historically have revolved around ivory poaching, so 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.080 in global demand for ivory products, and over the last 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.960 ten or so years, Kenya and many other countries have 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:28.400 really stemmed ivory poaching as the main pressure on elephant populations. 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:32.400 That is a major success for conservation and thinking about 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:37.560 overall populations. Though the rates that elephants are illegally killed 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:41.240 has actually shifted more so over to conflicts with people 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:45.200 and so in Kenya, trying to better understand human elephant 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:49.479 conflict as a challenge to people and elephants has helped 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:51.400 kind of emerge this as a focus for us in 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:51.760 our work. 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:53.560 So I want to ask real quick so we can 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.760 kind of set the common ground for our audience, what 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:01.160 are the actual conflicts someone listening to this, who might 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.800 live in, whether it's rural Middle America or a big 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.320 city like San Diego or Los Angeles or somewhere like that, 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.039 may not really have a clear picture as to what 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.760 is human elephant conflict, what conflict could possibly exist, because 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:15.800 I don't know if that's a clearer image as to 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.120 how people might have to coexist with them in Kenya. 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:20.760 Yeah, yeah, so what are some of the problems. 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:22.960 It's a really great question. And so if people have 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:26.120 heard about human elephant conflict, they've probably heard about crop reading, 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:30.039 which is elephants going into agricultural fields and just eating 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.520 their fill and trampling crops in the process. That's not 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:35.760 as much of an issue in the area where we 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:37.800 work in northern Kenya because it tends to be a 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.920 very dry area where it's not supportive of very large 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.919 scale agriculture. So we do see some crop reading, and 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.840 we do see some you know, destruction of kitchen gardens, 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.320 but we also see a lot of conflict emerging in 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.920 other cases, some cases where trees are being ripped down 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.679 by elephants when they switch to brows in the dry season, 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.520 going after water resources that are shared, and then you know, 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.480 things sort of change in space and time where people 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.200 are walking to community resources like a school or a 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:09.080 clinic and they're bumping into elephants and it escalates from there. 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:10.880 And so those are some of the issues that we 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:12.760 see and that we hear about from this community. 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:14.560 I mean, it seems like it's so vary too. 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:16.640 I mean, I'm a TikTok scarlier you guys, And sometimes 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:18.720 I get on some videos where I see a video 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.119 of maybe a rhino that went into a suburban area 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.159 and for good reason, the mother is very worried about 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.960 her child. And I imagine it's extremely specific and nuanced. 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.240 Even just Africa alone, I would imagine different communities where 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.680 the north or south and we have to listen, right, 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.640 we have to work with those communities. Can you talk 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.360 a little bit more about that, like how do we 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.200 as the Alliance help out those communities in those kind 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:39.880 of scenarios. 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.960 I think this relates to something Triffer is just touching on, 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.600 which is that the conflicts are varied. Yeah, conflicts are 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.680 not singular and they're not static. And so when we 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:52.280 approached engaging with these communities in Northern Kenya, a lot 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:57.080 of it was about understanding the diversity of interactions and challenges, 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.680 as well as priorities for coexistence where people see elephants 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.040 and where the interactions are not negative so that can 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:09.000 be maintained and supported. And really it was about prioritization too, 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:13.120 so we tried to be open and honest and that 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.560 conflict is never going to be eliminated, is never going 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:18.800 to be zero. These conflicts are going to fluctuate as 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.240 conditions change over time, and so part of the process 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.239 was developing one that was a trusted and transparent process 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.920 to rate and prioritize what types of conflicts communities wanted 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.760 to address first. And we did this by pulling information 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.560 from different channels, like said for scientists, we want information 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:41.280 to guide some of these decisions. Data data that's generated 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:44.000 by these community members, and I think that's really important 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:49.800 because the decision making around what's selected to pursue, having 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.400 that come from voices within the community at different levels, 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.200 so not just people informal power, but pulling those different 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:01.200 perspectives to understand as a community what to approach first 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.440 was really important to us. So we started with mapping 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:08.520 exercises to understand again spatially, where people are really dependent 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:12.320 on natural resources like water sources, or grazing blocks for 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.560 their livestock. We did a number of focus group discussions 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.640 and that really illuminated some of the seasonal aspects of 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.240 human elephant interactions that were really pertinent to our decision 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:26.360 making process. And then also a representative survey, and that 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.720 was to get at some of the voices within the 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.040 community that maybe aren't always at the community meetings, So 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.680 how do you get a representative sample from these areas? 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.439 That helped us rate and prioritize if we can't address everything, 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.760 what's most important to address first. And this helped us 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.600 identify human safety, particularly for children walking to school, as 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.240 something community members certainly wanted to address first. 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:50.400 I love that. 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.920 I mean specifically on the really hit home for me 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.840 was those people who can't go to those certain meetings 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.080 as an example, get that data, ranchers. I'm thinking out 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.439 in the back of the country and there are opinions matter. 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:02.440 Greatly as well these scenario. 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:04.240 So that's really great that you guys are trying to 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.840 invest in all manners of community in different walks of life. 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:07.679 So that's really cool. 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:08.440 Thank you so much. 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:10.960 It was important to us as well to gather that 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.040 information before any of these strategies started, so we can 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.960 monitor that over time, learn what's working what's not, so 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.119 that our conservation strategies could be adjusted. 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.600 Yeah, you had mentioned that it'll never go to zero, 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.560 that there's always going to be fluctuations of different things 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:28.760 going on in the environment. Populations of course as well, 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.200 can change things. There's so many variables. But of course 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.160 the goal is to mitigate it as much as possible, 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.199 and it being of course the conflict between the elephants 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:36.959 and the people. 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.079 When it comes to doing this, and we've talked. 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:41.280 About this for in fact, they just came up in 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.040 pandas that conservation isn't just to go in and solve 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:44.880 the riddle and you're done. 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.360 It is a long game. It's a long process. 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.920 When you look at the riddle of elephant human conflict, 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:53.200 knowing it's going to be a long game, what are 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.720 some of the more important things you look at going 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.480 into that. We've talked about really addressing things within the community, 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.400 listening to them, leaning on their knowledge and expertise of 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.640 the environment and the weather patterns and the elephants and 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:05.080 all that. 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.760 But for this long game of mitigating. 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.240 This, what's probably some of the more important things you 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:11.480 guys have come across so far. 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:13.920 That's a really great question. I think you touched on it. 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:17.160 With a complexity. There is so much complexity involved with 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.760 human elephant conflict for a number of reasons. Elephants, as 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.800 we know, are extremely smart animals. They are problem solvers 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.400 and they figure out a bluff. And so what we 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.120 know with mitigation methods is that they will find the 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.640 weak points or they will understand when it's actually not 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:34.680 that risky to do what they're trying to tell you. 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:38.520 So and of course they're driven to these great resources. 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.000 Elephants they have these spatial maps in their head. They 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:43.880 know where they're going, they know when those resources are ripe, 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.800 whether it's accia pods on trees or you know, water 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.640 sources that are ephemeral, and so that's a piece of 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.240 the complexity. Another piece of the complexity is that the 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.760 seasonal dynamics of the place change all the time, and 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.120 so the levels of conflict and the distribution of conflict changes. 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.360 And then there are other degrees of come complexity, including 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.800 whether a community is willing to buy into a particular intervention, 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:10.079 whether there are barriers for entry with that intervention, financial sustainability, 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.320 of the method that kind of thing, and so Kirsty 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:14.680 touched on this a bit where she spoke about level 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.200 setting at the beginning and understanding what we're going to 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:18.360 be able to do and what we're not going to 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.400 be able to do, and so prioritizing and understanding that 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:23.800 there's always going to be some degree of conflict, but 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:28.200 where can we prioritize And then to the piece about adaptability. 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:32.120 I think it's really important to understand that because you 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.400 need a suite of tools and you need the adaptability 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.600 piece within a community. We have really focused effort on 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.360 training for community members who are dealing with conflict so 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:43.880 that people actually are able. 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:45.319 To go and you know, not reinvent the wheel. 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.080 There are resources available, there are organizations who are leading trainings, 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.200 and so the last couple of years or so, we've 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.480 been facilitating a lot of those exchanges so that there 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.800 are people embedded within the community who can adapt as 0:11:57.880 --> 0:11:59.160 the conflicts change well. 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.160 And that gives them a sense of ownership too. It's 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:02.920 not just you walking in the same Okay, this is 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:04.160 what you need to do. I'm going to go back 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.120 home now. I'll be back in a few months to 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:06.560 check on you. 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:06.840 Guys. 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.640 But when you do the training and there's other organizations 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:11.320 that are involved. The partnerships that we have with other 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.520 organizations are so important. But then giving ownership to of 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.280 the individuals who live there, who are dealing with the 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.480 conflict on a daily basis to then empower them to 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.480 teach others as well. Really is that sense of ownership 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.400 where you can go back and check up on them, 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:25.960 but you're not needed there every single day. 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.000 I would imagine a little more inclined to you know, 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.160 I definitely know that guy from the other side of 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.520 the valley, but these I don't know about the es 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.800 day from the alliance because that could be something that 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:36.640 you have to contend with. I would imagine sometimes in 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:38.360 certain communities, wouldn't you say? 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.800 Yeah, this brings up a point that we always like 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.160 to highlight, which is the incredible team on the ground 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:43.720 that we work with. 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:45.400 Yeah, so I wish he. 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.520 Was sitting next to me, our Human Round Life Code 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.320 Existence coordinator and Kenny his name is Ambrose, led to Luai. 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:51.400 Shout out to Ambrose. 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.440 Ambrose, and he is helping to manage this group of 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:59.240 community conservation assistants that are going down to learn from 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.319 save yellowpant since Southern Kenya about the human elephant coexistence 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.280 toolbox and the point about ownership, I think that goes 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.600 part and parcel with leadership within these communities and different 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.440 roles and opportunities. Something we've learned from exploring this elephant 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.440 coexistence work is that there are different types of knowledge 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.960 and experience that can have a role in. 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:20.440 Any collective strategy. 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.320 So someone perhaps is formally trained in the toolbox and 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.600 they can lead trainings about say, reading elephant behavior, and 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.240 then in addition, they can invite or have an elder 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.520 from the community to share about their wisdom that they've 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:35.800 developed through the course of their life living with elephants. 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:40.120 A key part of our process has been sharing results 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.080 from the different streams of information that we've been gathering 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.720 so that any decision making is collective. And I always 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:51.199 remember sitting in Lasso Lodge next to Ambrose and next 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.640 to our other colleague, LExEN, and one of the elders said, 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.800 I definitely want there to be education days where you're 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:00.679 sharing about this toolbox. I want to be there and 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.360 share what I know too, and that wisdom piece I 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.320 think is really important for this elephant work. We did 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.599 ask those questions and some of the surveys about what 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:12.160 do you already do? And that is really important to 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:17.079 understand also as we're evaluating any strategies and interventions, because 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.160 it's not a clean slate, this is not a static 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:24.280 laboratory setting, so understanding what people are already doing and 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.800 how well they think those strategies work is an important 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:28.920 component of this as well. 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:30.200 So I want to ask. 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.120 Both of you mentioned a couple of times the toolbox, 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:34.720 and I know in context what you mean, but for 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.600 our audience who may be guessing or trying to understand 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.840 what that means, what is the toolbox? 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:40.160 Right? 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:44.360 Not a literal one exactly. 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:45.240 So it's a book. 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.720 It's essentially a manual that our colleagues that Save the 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.760 Elephants put together, which is a collection of all the 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.640 different mitigation strategies that people have used. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:55.440 And the different ways that they work. 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:57.760 And as well, it's really important it's sort of the 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:02.120 trade off of labor and costs that's involved, and so 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.400 obviously not every method is going to work in every community, 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.520 and so it allows people to really evaluate what might 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.560 work in their communities, what they're already doing, and so 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.040 they have trainings along with that manual, and they have 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.640 it published in many languages at this point, and they're always 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:18.120 updating it so visual. 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.360 It's illustrations are gorgeous, and it is available online. 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:25.280 So anyone listening to this podcast our members can search 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.760 the Human Elephant Coexistence Toolbox and find the website that 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.520 Save the Elephants manages and updates regularly with different languages, 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:36.800 and as the evidence base around coexistence evolves and develops. 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.440 I think that's an important aspect too. Is part of 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.360 the toolbox development was a call for information about how 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.520 well these strategies work, so that could be refined over 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:46.160 time as well. 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.840 I'm curiously when you talked about methods that were successful 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.720 and we're not successful for listeners who have no idea 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.200 what's going on out there with elephants in different communities, 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.320 could you give me like a couple examples, maybe one 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.360 a little more rule and maybe one a little more urban, 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.440 if you can think of a certain different situations you 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.480 know or not, just whatever pops up in your head. 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.960 You know, some of the nuances of elephant and human 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:06.560 interactions and conflicts. 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.040 That have fences high. What do you want? 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:09.680 Oh? 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:11.920 Yeah, and actually the one that's a good one because 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.120 actually there's a really cool picture and I mean I 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:15.720 can describe a little bit, but it's a picture. 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.080 Actually, you guys describe this picture? What am I looking 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.440 at right here? 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.160 Yeah, so this is a photo that's in the common 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.320 Ground article within the Sez tw a journal I got 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.680 to take this photo actually, but yeah, during. 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.520 A visit, yeah, thank you. During a visit from or 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:32.400 for Chewy Mamas. 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.320 They were being hosted by one of the women's groups 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.000 that say the Elephants work at called Loam Beni. So 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.760 they were at the women's center that's next to Save 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.160 the Elephants camp in Savo or in the Voi Savo 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.960 area of Kenya, and one of the Save the Elephants 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:50.120 staff members is describing a beehive fence to these Chewy Mamas. 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:54.440 Be High fences are an incredible innovation that work in 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.000 that the the beehives are set up around a fixed boundaries, 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.680 such as around a farm, and there's wire between each 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.880 of those bee hives, and so the beehives will shake 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.080 if something touches them like an elephant or in the wind, 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.920 and be highs and the sound would invoke a few 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.520 response from elephants. And so that would keep elephants further 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.280 away from the farm Shiffra, Is that right? 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:15.600 Yeah? 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.800 Yeah, And I think this is an incredible innovation. There 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.800 are some really important considerations though. One is that there's 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.560 heavy initial cost investment and so it's not a viable 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.800 option for some household owners that are more resource constrained. 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.800 So there's a heavy initial cost investment. And then a 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:37.000 really important aspect is that bees require water sources nearby 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.640 and so yeah, so you need bees within those boxes 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.359 for it to be an effective fence tool. And so 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.960 in drought times, which is a natural but unfortunately exacerbated 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:52.560 aspect of conditions in Kenya giving climate related drought impacts, 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.160 if the bees aren't there, then the fence isn't going 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:59.480 to work, right, Yeah. So I think that it's incredible 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.240 to look at where these beehive fences work because it's 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.240 also producing a product that someone can sell for an 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:06.399