1 00:00:00,210 --> 00:00:27,570 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,590 --> 00:00:30,930 Speaker 1: the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you, as always, so 3 00:00:31,010 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it. For the man, 4 00:00:34,300 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: the myth, the legend, our super producer, Max 20% or better, Williams. 5 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: That was sort of like the roar of the crowd, 6 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 2: but also the satisfying sound of taking a sip of 7 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: an ice cold beverage served to you. 8 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:54,870 Speaker 3: By a lovely human who you reward for their service. 9 00:00:55,310 --> 00:00:59,510 Speaker 3: Reward is the wrong word. It's so complicated. It's so complicated. 10 00:00:59,550 --> 00:01:01,690 Speaker 3: That's Noel Brown. I've been bullied. 11 00:01:01,750 --> 00:01:07,390 Speaker 1: This is part two of an exploration on the practice 12 00:01:07,690 --> 00:01:13,580 Speaker 1: of tipping, which has baffled, fascinated people. irritated, and saved 13 00:01:13,860 --> 00:01:18,020 Speaker 1: so many folks here in the United States. And Noel, 14 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: as you, Max, and I were discussing at the very 15 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:28,220 Speaker 1: end of our first episode on this, tipping in the 16 00:01:28,330 --> 00:01:32,450 Speaker 1: United States comes from a very problematic place. 17 00:01:32,970 --> 00:01:36,490 Speaker 3: It sure does. Are we talking about the racist part? 18 00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: We have to talk about the races part. We have 19 00:01:46,180 --> 00:01:49,100 Speaker 1: to introduce– Max, Nolan, I don't know what kind of 20 00:01:49,620 --> 00:01:51,950 Speaker 1: sound cue you're going to do here, but I know 21 00:01:52,030 --> 00:01:54,550 Speaker 1: it's going to be perfect because you're a genius. We 22 00:01:54,610 --> 00:01:59,610 Speaker 1: have to introduce the Pullman Palace Car Company founded by 23 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:09,500 Speaker 1: a guy named George Mortimer Pullman Jr. In the late 1800s. And, Noel, 24 00:02:09,860 --> 00:02:14,740 Speaker 1: these dudes were super dupes, fancy. They made high-end luxury 25 00:02:14,860 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: cars for railroads. 26 00:02:16,580 --> 00:02:19,100 Speaker 3: Carriages, right? Carriages, yeah, just so. 27 00:02:19,100 --> 00:02:19,460 Speaker 2: Yes, yes. 28 00:02:19,700 --> 00:02:23,540 Speaker 3: Also, can we bring back the name Mortimer and Poindexter, please? 29 00:02:24,060 --> 00:02:25,900 Speaker 1: I like a Mortimer. I like a Mortimer. 30 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 3: Not a Poindexter so much? 31 00:02:28,050 --> 00:02:31,900 Speaker 1: I point Dexter. I haven't met one personally, but if 32 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: I met, cause they're not around, I'm saying bring it back. 33 00:02:34,180 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 34 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,139 Speaker 1: But if I know that the three of us do 35 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: our best to be cool, empathetic, hang. So if we 36 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: met a point Dexter and they had the cojones to say, uh, 37 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,370 Speaker 1: I am, they call me point Dexter. I would have 38 00:02:48,470 --> 00:02:51,310 Speaker 1: so much respect. And Max is throwing his hand up here. 39 00:02:51,330 --> 00:02:54,170 Speaker 3: I would mock them relentlessly. Cause I'm a bad guy. 40 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,340 Speaker 3: I'm kidding. I wouldn't do that. Do you know a Poindexter, Max? 41 00:02:58,780 --> 00:03:00,710 Speaker 4: Oh, I was going to just jump in. There is 42 00:03:00,970 --> 00:03:04,490 Speaker 4: a former NBA player by the name of Quincy Poindexter. 43 00:03:05,020 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: Now, as a last name, it's acceptable and it's around, 44 00:03:07,620 --> 00:03:08,340 Speaker 3: but as a first name. 45 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,230 Speaker 4: But what about his first name's Quincy? Quincy Poindexter. And 46 00:03:12,270 --> 00:03:15,030 Speaker 4: he is in the news because he just like recently, 47 00:03:15,050 --> 00:03:17,070 Speaker 4: like this week, was hired as the new G League 48 00:03:17,110 --> 00:03:20,650 Speaker 4: head coach of the Chicago Bulls. He's also six foot seven. 49 00:03:20,889 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 4: So I'm not going to make fun of his name 50 00:03:22,500 --> 00:03:23,020 Speaker 4: to his face. 51 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:23,820 Speaker 2: No, no. 52 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,100 Speaker 3: I mean, you couldn't even see his face. It would 53 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 3: be towering above you. 54 00:03:27,980 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 4: And because this is an audio-only podcast, people don't know 55 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,899 Speaker 4: what I look like, so I won't say it on air. 56 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 3: Okay. 57 00:03:34,380 --> 00:03:43,070 Speaker 1: Well, congratulations to anybody with the cargo to say my 58 00:03:43,110 --> 00:03:46,630 Speaker 1: name is Poindexter with your chest. You know what I mean? 59 00:03:46,790 --> 00:03:49,890 Speaker 1: I have such respect for that. I also am fascinated 60 00:03:49,950 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: to hear what the short version of your name is. 61 00:03:53,050 --> 00:03:55,970 Speaker 1: Like if you're a Max Jamin, an old Jamin, or 62 00:03:56,010 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: a Benjamin, you usually go with something shorter. So it's 63 00:03:59,740 --> 00:04:00,619 Speaker 1: just Dexter, right? 64 00:04:00,700 --> 00:04:02,820 Speaker 3: Is Dexter short for Poindexter? 65 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: In some cases, it must be statistically. 66 00:04:05,980 --> 00:04:06,940 Speaker 3: I guess it's got to be. 67 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:07,300 Speaker 1: It must be. 68 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 3: Okay. So back to the Pullman Palace Car Company and 69 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:17,260 Speaker 3: George Mortimer Pullman in the late 1800s. Big time, fancy schmancy, 70 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 3: what we might call bespoke carriages for, you know, highfalutin 71 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,830 Speaker 3: passengers traveling by rail. And I know that we must. 72 00:04:26,630 --> 00:04:30,030 Speaker 2: Have talked about this aspect of tipping or at least 73 00:04:30,089 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: the railroad system either on Ridiculous History in some other 74 00:04:34,010 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: context or on stuff they don't want you to know, 75 00:04:36,020 --> 00:04:39,460 Speaker 2: our sister show. But this company hired thousands of black 76 00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:46,770 Speaker 2: men to essentially attend to the passengers. on these fancy 77 00:04:47,410 --> 00:04:53,690 Speaker 2: railway lines. And they were called porters. There were sleeping cars. 78 00:04:53,790 --> 00:04:56,170 Speaker 2: They would attend to the guests or the passengers, move 79 00:04:56,190 --> 00:04:59,390 Speaker 2: around their luggage, cargo, all of that kind of stuff. 80 00:05:00,029 --> 00:05:03,460 Speaker 2: It was not easy work, but they were kind of, 81 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 2: weren't they sort of more, like a porter was almost 82 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:07,060 Speaker 2: kind of like a valet? 83 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 3: Like it was an upstairs job, right? 84 00:05:09,860 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: It wasn't like they were down shoveling the coal or 85 00:05:12,620 --> 00:05:15,980 Speaker 2: like working, you know, Like bag tossers on an airline. 86 00:05:16,140 --> 00:05:20,940 Speaker 3: These folks were interacting with the public. Yeah. 87 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,770 Speaker 1: Often there would be public interaction. I do appreciate that upstairs, 88 00:05:25,890 --> 00:05:30,870 Speaker 1: downstairs idea here. These folks are. 89 00:05:31,630 --> 00:05:34,110 Speaker 3: Because they wear little suits. They make them wear little outfits, right? 90 00:05:34,180 --> 00:05:38,099 Speaker 1: Yes. And they had to pay for that on their own. 91 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: Their uniforms were not provided by the company. And like 92 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,119 Speaker 1: you said, this is very physically demanding work. On top 93 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: of this, you have no rights as an employee. You 94 00:05:51,420 --> 00:05:55,710 Speaker 1: are going to suffer intense racial discrimination when you run 95 00:05:55,870 --> 00:06:00,310 Speaker 1: into not just customers but your management. And this is 96 00:06:00,390 --> 00:06:05,670 Speaker 1: so messed up. Okay, so our buddy or someone's buddy, 97 00:06:05,750 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: George Pullman, he– is on record multiple times saying he 98 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:18,100 Speaker 1: specifically sought out formerly enslaved people to do this Porter 99 00:06:18,140 --> 00:06:23,060 Speaker 1: job because he believed in some very nasty eugenics and 100 00:06:23,140 --> 00:06:29,110 Speaker 1: social Darwinism. He said these folks are already conditioned to subservience, 101 00:06:29,589 --> 00:06:33,530 Speaker 1: to working long hours without rest or a past, and 102 00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:39,450 Speaker 1: they will obey white authorities. Pretty gross stuff. 103 00:06:39,550 --> 00:06:43,210 Speaker 2: Yeah, man. Yeah, this notion of them being particularly suited 104 00:06:43,310 --> 00:06:48,460 Speaker 2: for this level of treatment and acceptance of, let's just 105 00:06:48,500 --> 00:06:50,460 Speaker 2: call it what it is, a slave wage. I mean, 106 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,860 Speaker 2: a slave wage would be free, but it's still about 107 00:06:53,900 --> 00:06:55,219 Speaker 2: as low as it goes. 108 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:56,380 Speaker 3: Next to free. 109 00:06:57,060 --> 00:07:04,690 Speaker 1: And because these United States are, if imperfect, definitely aspirational, right, 110 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:09,049 Speaker 1: and have some good ideas— We do want to acknowledge 111 00:07:09,350 --> 00:07:13,610 Speaker 1: that Pullman's villainous practices, which we're about to get into, 112 00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:23,860 Speaker 1: were so insanely out of the Overton window that he motivated. 113 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,180 Speaker 1: We'll go to Max with this one. One of the 114 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: largest strikes in all of U.S. history, even up to 115 00:07:32,060 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: the modern day. Max, can you tell us a little more? 116 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, the Pullman strikes. It was a massive strike where 117 00:07:38,140 --> 00:07:42,140 Speaker 4: they effectively shut down, I think, 25% of the rail 118 00:07:42,180 --> 00:07:45,530 Speaker 4: industry in the United States during the Gilded Age. Because, 119 00:07:45,890 --> 00:07:48,610 Speaker 4: I mean, just across the board, Pullman and his company 120 00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:53,510 Speaker 4: treated their employees terribly. And this actually gave rise to, 121 00:07:53,790 --> 00:07:57,730 Speaker 4: as a guy who I've referred to before as my daddy, 122 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 4: Eugene V. Debs, who was the president of the union 123 00:08:01,900 --> 00:08:07,310 Speaker 4: at the time, He helped lead this strike and this boycott. So, yeah, 124 00:08:07,430 --> 00:08:09,650 Speaker 4: thank you for helping give rise to Debs. 125 00:08:10,570 --> 00:08:13,190 Speaker 2: Guys, it just occurred to me that we have one 126 00:08:13,210 --> 00:08:18,130 Speaker 2: of these sort of gentrified, redeveloped, big old industrial complexes 127 00:08:18,190 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: here in Atlanta called Pullman Yards that was absolutely owned 128 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: by the Pullman Company. 129 00:08:24,780 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 3: Pullman. 130 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,870 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sixth and final national company. overhaul facility for 131 00:08:29,930 --> 00:08:34,570 Speaker 2: these luxury sleeping cars, uh, where hundreds of these folks 132 00:08:35,450 --> 00:08:39,479 Speaker 2: labored and toiled, um, and who became the brotherhood of 133 00:08:39,540 --> 00:08:42,700 Speaker 2: sleeping car porters is a very, uh, important location for 134 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:43,819 Speaker 2: exactly what you're talking about. 135 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,770 Speaker 3: And now it's like, You know, they have, like, festivals 136 00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:51,620 Speaker 3: and stuff there. It's cool. It's, like, it's historical, and 137 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:53,180 Speaker 3: I'm sure there's plaques and stuff. 138 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,069 Speaker 2: Around, but it is kind of funny whenever you see 139 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,449 Speaker 2: something with this sort of historical connotation being turned into, like, 140 00:08:58,490 --> 00:09:03,500 Speaker 2: a place where the frickin', you know, Monet experience comes 141 00:09:03,630 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: on tour. 142 00:09:04,630 --> 00:09:07,370 Speaker 4: This is the period of monopolies where, you know, you 143 00:09:07,410 --> 00:09:11,050 Speaker 4: have the guy who makes the sleeping car, the guy 144 00:09:11,090 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 4: who makes the oil, the guy who makes the railroad, 145 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,300 Speaker 4: the other guy who makes the not railroad, but close 146 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:17,900 Speaker 4: enough to it. And the guy who makes steel. 147 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:24,020 Speaker 1: Yes. And with the rest, the great unwashed. Now, we're 148 00:09:24,059 --> 00:09:27,180 Speaker 1: talking about these folks. We're talking about George Mortimer here 149 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: because he is a big part of why tipping exists 150 00:09:32,300 --> 00:09:36,730 Speaker 1: in the United States in the modern day. The Pullman Company, 151 00:09:37,809 --> 00:09:43,090 Speaker 1: being very racist and targeting a vulnerable demographic of employees, 152 00:09:43,510 --> 00:09:49,030 Speaker 1: they loved, loved, loved, adored the idea of tipping because 153 00:09:49,309 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: it let them massively underpay employees. Those employees, things were 154 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:59,930 Speaker 1: super terrible for these guys already. Their salaries were way below. 155 00:10:00,460 --> 00:10:04,260 Speaker 1: what would qualify as a living wage, even as a 156 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: single person, much less if you have a spouse or children. 157 00:10:08,540 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: They had to, as I mentioned earlier, they had to 158 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: pay for their own uniforms and food. You could not 159 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,860 Speaker 1: be employed if you didn't have the uniform. They were 160 00:10:18,059 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: also expected to This is kind of similar to airlines today. 161 00:10:22,660 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: They were expected to do a lot of unpaid work. 162 00:10:26,059 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: So they would have to prep the cars for trips. 163 00:10:29,020 --> 00:10:32,070 Speaker 1: They would have to clean the cars afterwards. That did 164 00:10:32,250 --> 00:10:35,530 Speaker 1: not qualify as part of their paid employment. And a 165 00:10:35,570 --> 00:10:37,630 Speaker 1: lot of folks don't know this. I didn't know this 166 00:10:38,230 --> 00:10:42,790 Speaker 1: until my girlfriend told me about it with her experience 167 00:10:42,809 --> 00:10:46,250 Speaker 1: in the airline industry. Did you guys know that flight 168 00:10:46,290 --> 00:10:50,860 Speaker 1: attendants are not paid? in the US until the flight 169 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:52,860 Speaker 1: has left the ground? 170 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:53,940 Speaker 3: I heard that. 171 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 2: I was dating a flight attendant for a little while 172 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,099 Speaker 2: and she told me something similar and I thought it 173 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 2: was really bizarre. 174 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:02,820 Speaker 3: I don't understand the logistics of that. 175 00:11:03,470 --> 00:11:06,410 Speaker 4: What does that accomplish? Why did somebody push for that? 176 00:11:06,650 --> 00:11:10,570 Speaker 1: I have no idea, guys, but we know that as 177 00:11:10,610 --> 00:11:14,670 Speaker 1: a result, the Pullman Company made a lot of money 178 00:11:14,830 --> 00:11:19,490 Speaker 1: by underpaying these porters And it meant that these employees 179 00:11:19,550 --> 00:11:24,750 Speaker 1: in particular had to rely on tips to survive, which 180 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:29,140 Speaker 1: means they are in turn dependent on the generosity of 181 00:11:29,179 --> 00:11:33,300 Speaker 1: these customers, these strangers, all of whom, as you and 182 00:11:33,340 --> 00:11:37,140 Speaker 1: I said earlier, Noel, were not technically required to pay 183 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: these porters one red cent. And they also might be 184 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,359 Speaker 1: super racist to them. They will call them things like boy. 185 00:11:46,830 --> 00:11:49,470 Speaker 2: And not to mention, I mean, these outfits that they 186 00:11:49,530 --> 00:11:52,470 Speaker 2: had to pay for themselves were kind of meant to 187 00:11:52,510 --> 00:11:55,449 Speaker 2: like sort of gussy them up a little bit for 188 00:11:55,950 --> 00:11:56,620 Speaker 2: the white folks. 189 00:11:57,050 --> 00:11:57,750 Speaker 3: I mean, right? 190 00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,980 Speaker 2: Like it was a little bit of a demeaning kind 191 00:12:00,059 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 2: of uniform, right? Like a little bit of a, I 192 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 2: don't know, it had a certain, I don't know, man, 193 00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:08,700 Speaker 2: kind of minstrel quality to it, frankly. 194 00:12:09,059 --> 00:12:12,540 Speaker 1: It was dehumanizing for sure. I agree with that. And 195 00:12:13,179 --> 00:12:16,349 Speaker 1: there's some great resources to read more about this from 196 00:12:16,890 --> 00:12:20,130 Speaker 1: our friends at the Jim Crow Museum, and they note 197 00:12:20,250 --> 00:12:25,790 Speaker 1: that the sheer economic realities here led to porters often 198 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: working more than, get this, guys, 400 hours per month. 199 00:12:31,820 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: And that was not allowing them to save up a 200 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: bunch of money. That was allowing them to have a 201 00:12:38,059 --> 00:12:40,660 Speaker 1: basic income such that you could survive. 202 00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 3: Not good. 203 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,380 Speaker 2: So essentially, they pivoted the idea of tips being bonuses. 204 00:12:46,890 --> 00:12:51,030 Speaker 2: provided by these fat cats to their underlings or their inferiors, 205 00:12:51,390 --> 00:12:55,270 Speaker 2: how they viewed it, to becoming the only source of 206 00:12:55,390 --> 00:12:58,980 Speaker 2: income for these black workers that they did not want 207 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,859 Speaker 2: to pay. And we brought up at the top of 208 00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:04,420 Speaker 2: the first episode just how, and I know it's more 209 00:13:04,460 --> 00:13:09,630 Speaker 2: complicated than that, but maybe to the untrained observer, it 210 00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:13,429 Speaker 2: can certainly feel like that's a very similar arrangement for 211 00:13:13,490 --> 00:13:16,699 Speaker 2: the restaurant owners. I mean, I get it when it 212 00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:19,459 Speaker 2: comes to like smaller, more independent, you know, restaurants where 213 00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 2: the margins are so slim and it's really, you know, 214 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,980 Speaker 2: restaurants fail all the time, but for like these big 215 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,579 Speaker 2: corporate chains and stuff, it just, it really just seems 216 00:13:26,620 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: like this exclusively benefits the folks. 217 00:13:29,420 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 3: At the top rather than the folks doing the work. 218 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,220 Speaker 3: A hundred percent. Yeah. Nailed it. 219 00:13:34,620 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: And this would later become normalized in multiple service industries. 220 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:45,010 Speaker 1: But even in the time of this deep blatant racism 221 00:13:45,250 --> 00:13:50,190 Speaker 1: and discrimination, the concept of tipping was a divisive issue. 222 00:13:50,330 --> 00:13:53,690 Speaker 1: Maybe not for the reasons we would assume today. Up 223 00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:58,030 Speaker 1: until the early 1900s or so, there were a lot 224 00:13:58,050 --> 00:14:04,510 Speaker 1: of normal, non-wealthy Americans who said, hey, tipping as a practice, 225 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:10,020 Speaker 1: as an expected thing, is that not inherently contradictory to 226 00:14:10,059 --> 00:14:13,980 Speaker 1: the values of a democracy? Is it not like a 227 00:14:14,140 --> 00:14:21,410 Speaker 1: backhanded compliment? Are you not forcing an aristocratic framework upon us? 228 00:14:21,550 --> 00:14:26,570 Speaker 1: Are we not, when we are having these well-to-do people 229 00:14:26,630 --> 00:14:30,690 Speaker 1: tip us, are they not saying, Your job's not good enough. 230 00:14:30,990 --> 00:14:34,730 Speaker 1: You are inferior to me. NPR has a great article 231 00:14:34,810 --> 00:14:35,090 Speaker 1: on this. 232 00:14:35,330 --> 00:14:36,990 Speaker 3: Well, I love the word flunkyism. 233 00:14:37,130 --> 00:14:40,150 Speaker 2: Can I just say that they drop in their very 234 00:14:40,270 --> 00:14:45,010 Speaker 2: astute description. When tipping began to spread in post-Civil War America, 235 00:14:45,620 --> 00:14:50,020 Speaker 2: it was tarred, reference not lost, on us as a 236 00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:53,020 Speaker 2: cancer in the, this is a quote from the time, 237 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,930 Speaker 2: cancer in the breast of democracy, flunkyism is, and a 238 00:14:58,150 --> 00:15:03,710 Speaker 2: gross and offensive caricature of mercy. But the most common 239 00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:08,610 Speaker 2: insult hurled at it was that it was just offensively un-American. 240 00:15:08,670 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: This idea of a day's wage for a day's work, 241 00:15:12,140 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 2: you know, it just really did fly in the face 242 00:15:14,420 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 2: of that and seemed inherently designed to benefit, as I 243 00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 2: was just saying a minute ago, the folks at the top, 244 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 2: the folks pulling in all the profits, you know? 245 00:15:24,660 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. 246 00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:28,150 Speaker 1: So the question then becomes, or, not to be too 247 00:15:28,190 --> 00:15:34,830 Speaker 1: Dennis Reynolds about it, the implication becomes you are not 248 00:15:35,010 --> 00:15:39,190 Speaker 1: a person just doing your honest job. You are somehow 249 00:15:39,810 --> 00:15:53,210 Speaker 1: my servant, my social inferior. This great debate became a 250 00:15:54,030 --> 00:15:58,050 Speaker 1: huge issue across the country. It was such a big 251 00:15:58,130 --> 00:16:02,780 Speaker 1: deal that it would show up in political campaigns. The 252 00:16:02,860 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: author we mentioned in episode one, Seagrave, points out that 253 00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: William Howard Taft had this entire plank of his platform 254 00:16:13,490 --> 00:16:18,630 Speaker 1: about this in 1908 during his presidential campaigns. He wanted 255 00:16:18,690 --> 00:16:22,610 Speaker 1: to be seen as the patron saint of the anti-tipping crusade. 256 00:16:22,670 --> 00:16:26,150 Speaker 1: He also, by the way, bragged about, he did this 257 00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:29,510 Speaker 1: multiple times, he bragged about how he would never tip 258 00:16:29,550 --> 00:16:32,570 Speaker 1: his barber, and I think, honestly, it shows. 259 00:16:34,030 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 3: Guy's not famous for his good haircuts. 260 00:16:37,970 --> 00:16:40,670 Speaker 4: Um, all my positive things I've ever said about William 261 00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:41,270 Speaker 4: Howard tough. 262 00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:43,430 Speaker 3: I mean, he did do some good stuff, but this 263 00:16:43,450 --> 00:16:44,090 Speaker 3: is pretty gross. 264 00:16:44,130 --> 00:16:44,310 Speaker 1: Yeah. 265 00:16:44,730 --> 00:16:47,130 Speaker 2: Uh, so this debate over tipping became a huge deal, 266 00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:50,510 Speaker 2: became like almost like a political talking point. Um, so 267 00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:54,630 Speaker 2: much so that six separate States made tipping illegal for 268 00:16:54,730 --> 00:16:58,930 Speaker 2: a period of time. And that was Washington, Mississippi and Arkansas. Um, 269 00:16:59,430 --> 00:17:03,030 Speaker 2: followed by then a handful of other States, Iowa, South Carolina, 270 00:17:03,050 --> 00:17:07,340 Speaker 2: and Tennessee, um, in 1915, not too far after, uh, 271 00:17:07,450 --> 00:17:10,850 Speaker 2: Georgia even tried some tipping or we find ourselves, uh, 272 00:17:10,930 --> 00:17:14,310 Speaker 2: prohibition for a time. Um, but you know what they 273 00:17:14,350 --> 00:17:16,850 Speaker 2: say about prohibition. We say it all the time. It's 274 00:17:16,930 --> 00:17:21,460 Speaker 2: not really, uh, the way to, to enact change. Um, 275 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,580 Speaker 2: you tell someone a thing they can't do and they're 276 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,660 Speaker 2: going to double down on wanting. 277 00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:27,140 Speaker 3: To do it and find a way to do it 278 00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 3: despite you. 279 00:17:28,540 --> 00:17:32,850 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. By, uh, you know, the last holdout on this, uh, 280 00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:40,060 Speaker 1: fad of anti-tipping laws was Mississippi, a famously problematic place. 281 00:17:40,780 --> 00:17:47,500 Speaker 1: By 1926, even Mississippi had left their tipping prohibition laws behind. 282 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,340 Speaker 1: These had all been abolished. And the reason they were 283 00:17:51,380 --> 00:17:55,379 Speaker 1: abolished was similar to the reason so many prohibition laws 284 00:17:55,460 --> 00:18:02,470 Speaker 1: get passed by the wayside in other milieus. The authorities 285 00:18:02,570 --> 00:18:07,950 Speaker 1: just can't enforce it. Tipping is normalized now. Some employees are, 286 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: with validity, saying, I can't make a living without tips. 287 00:18:13,140 --> 00:18:15,820 Speaker 1: Pullman is not going to ever pay me enough. And 288 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,050 Speaker 1: then on the other side, you have customers who are saying, well, 289 00:18:19,609 --> 00:18:23,290 Speaker 1: gosh darn it, it's my money, right? I already pay 290 00:18:23,330 --> 00:18:27,250 Speaker 1: you taxes, so why should you get to tell me 291 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,340 Speaker 1: who I can or cannot give money to. Those are 292 00:18:31,420 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: good points, but the entire time, tipping is still deeply, 293 00:18:36,780 --> 00:18:42,649 Speaker 1: deeply rooted in racial prejudice and the shadow of chattel slavery. 294 00:18:42,990 --> 00:18:45,889 Speaker 1: There are journalists who, and I hate to say it, 295 00:18:46,170 --> 00:18:50,230 Speaker 1: they were quite respected for their day. They would write 296 00:18:50,270 --> 00:18:54,899 Speaker 1: at length about how tipping black people was fine because 297 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,870 Speaker 1: it was a token of black inferiority, And they would say, 298 00:18:58,990 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: in contrast, tipping white people was embarrassing to everyone, which 299 00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:10,020 Speaker 1: is such a weird bit of mental parkour, is it not? 300 00:19:10,580 --> 00:19:11,260 Speaker 3: It sure is. 301 00:19:11,540 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 2: The Pullman Company that we've been talking about and others 302 00:19:13,940 --> 00:19:16,739 Speaker 2: may have gotten away with this practice forever, but the 303 00:19:16,820 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 2: Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters and all the black porters involved, 304 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:27,850 Speaker 2: led by Philip A. Randolph, said, fought against this in 1925. 305 00:19:27,850 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 2: This organization became the nation's first Black union to be 306 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 2: affiliated with the American Federation of Labor, and they fought 307 00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: for and won higher wages and were also still able 308 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,500 Speaker 2: to take their tips. 309 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: A little bit of have your cake and eat it, too. 310 00:19:43,660 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: And we have to do an episode maybe in the 311 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:53,020 Speaker 1: future on the American Federation Federation of Labor. This is 312 00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:58,129 Speaker 1: a huge historic milestone for the porters, for their union. 313 00:19:58,530 --> 00:20:01,370 Speaker 1: And it is a big win. We cannot take that 314 00:20:01,810 --> 00:20:06,690 Speaker 1: away from the tremendously courageous people who at this time 315 00:20:06,730 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: were literally risking their lives for equality. But we do, 316 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: at the same token, have to say there were a 317 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,660 Speaker 1: lot of restaurant workers who were also being victimized for 318 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:24,450 Speaker 1: their race or for their gender. Many of these restaurant 319 00:20:24,490 --> 00:20:28,750 Speaker 1: workers were women. They did not see the same success. 320 00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:31,750 Speaker 1: We're doing a setup here, folks. It'll take us to 321 00:20:31,790 --> 00:20:37,090 Speaker 1: the present day. In the restaurant industry, The concept of 322 00:20:37,230 --> 00:20:42,860 Speaker 1: tips replacing wages was still very much a thing, even 323 00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: after Congress passed the first minimum wage law in 1938. Right. 324 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,970 Speaker 2: This allowed states to set a lower wage for tipped workers, 325 00:20:56,050 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 2: but it excluded restaurant workers. In 1942, the Supreme Court 326 00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:04,740 Speaker 2: ruled that employees had an exclusive right to their tips 327 00:21:05,140 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 2: and that their employers couldn't force them to share their 328 00:21:09,540 --> 00:21:10,780 Speaker 2: tips with kitchen staff. 329 00:21:10,940 --> 00:21:13,940 Speaker 3: Like that pooling concept I was talking about. Tip out. 330 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,100 Speaker 3: Pretty divisive today. Yeah, exactly. I think pooling is a 331 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:17,869 Speaker 3: little different than tip out. 332 00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:18,300 Speaker 2: You're right, Bennett. 333 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 3: It is more of the tip out situation. 334 00:21:20,260 --> 00:21:23,859 Speaker 2: In fact, in 1966, when our nation's minimum wage was overhauled, 335 00:21:24,180 --> 00:21:28,130 Speaker 2: restaurant workers were even more formally cut out of the conversation. 336 00:21:28,930 --> 00:21:34,410 Speaker 2: And Uncle Sam greenlit a sub-minimum wage for tipped workers, 337 00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:37,629 Speaker 2: calling this tip credit, which allowed employers to pay tipped 338 00:21:37,690 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 2: employees a sub-minimum wage on the understanding that the rest 339 00:21:41,180 --> 00:21:44,220 Speaker 2: of that wage would be made up, subsidized by the 340 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 2: customers themselves, who, again. 341 00:21:46,859 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 3: Were gently asked. 342 00:21:50,460 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 2: Expected-ish, but not required to leave that money on the table. 343 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,900 Speaker 3: So basically, we're right back where we started. Yeah, boom. 344 00:22:01,250 --> 00:22:06,350 Speaker 1: We're back to Pullman at this point. Congress and the 345 00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:12,450 Speaker 1: SCOTUS in their infinite wisdom said, everybody but you. It'll 346 00:22:12,490 --> 00:22:17,619 Speaker 1: be fine. There is no law that says a customer 347 00:22:17,780 --> 00:22:21,780 Speaker 1: needs to pay anything more than the official price for 348 00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:24,810 Speaker 1: a good or a service. And that's part of why 349 00:22:24,970 --> 00:22:29,909 Speaker 1: this is so befuddling and bedeviling to people who are 350 00:22:29,950 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: not from the United States and As you can tell, folks, 351 00:22:33,619 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: the three of us are still baffled about this today. 352 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,870 Speaker 1: There's a grand debate that continues. Tipping is now ubiquitous 353 00:22:42,350 --> 00:22:46,010 Speaker 1: in U.S. culture. It was once seen as un-American, as 354 00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:50,290 Speaker 1: a moral malady, as one journalist called it. And then 355 00:22:50,609 --> 00:22:54,170 Speaker 1: there was a lot of victim blaming, too, at that time. 356 00:22:54,330 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: Like in the 1800s, 1900s, there were, I'll say it, 357 00:23:00,060 --> 00:23:04,750 Speaker 1: there were more well-to-do people, journalists, authors of note, who 358 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: would say that your local server is overly entitled. There 359 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,780 Speaker 1: were a lot of accusations of what they called itchy palms, right? 360 00:23:14,820 --> 00:23:15,980 Speaker 2: Oh, gosh. 361 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Which is where, you know, like you— Sounds 362 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 3: like a disease. 363 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 4: Exactly. 364 00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: They were portrayed just as that. Thankfully, that's fallen to 365 00:23:25,180 --> 00:23:30,570 Speaker 1: the wayside. And guys— Maybe this is naive on my part, 366 00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:33,209 Speaker 1: or maybe we're all too optimistic, but I'd like to 367 00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:37,770 Speaker 1: say that most people in the United States today understand 368 00:23:38,350 --> 00:23:42,970 Speaker 1: that servers, in particular, people working at restaurants, they're not 369 00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:47,510 Speaker 1: the real beneficiaries of this awkward system. They, like the 370 00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:52,169 Speaker 1: customers complaining about itchy palms, are instead the victims of 371 00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:56,060 Speaker 1: the larger system. Because tipping is... I was reading some 372 00:23:57,270 --> 00:24:03,050 Speaker 1: really upsetting studies about how discriminatory tipping can be. Like 373 00:24:03,130 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: a customer will make a subjective call, not on the service, 374 00:24:08,859 --> 00:24:13,020 Speaker 1: but on how they feel an employee looks or how 375 00:24:13,060 --> 00:24:17,700 Speaker 1: they feel their background is. Profile. They'll profile them. Yeah, 376 00:24:17,740 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: that's a perfect word. And there's not really a recourse 377 00:24:21,940 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: for the workers who are victimized, right? Like, I mean, no, 378 00:24:29,060 --> 00:24:31,780 Speaker 1: you and I both worked at restaurants, I think for 379 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,340 Speaker 1: a brief time. Is that correct? 380 00:24:33,940 --> 00:24:37,619 Speaker 3: Yeah. I worked in the kitchen. I've never been a server. Okay. 381 00:24:37,660 --> 00:24:40,260 Speaker 1: You were at a, yes, yes. I remember that story. 382 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,420 Speaker 1: I had worked as a server, but not, not officially 383 00:24:43,460 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: in a kitchen. So Max, you have more experience than 384 00:24:47,020 --> 00:24:50,619 Speaker 1: Noel and myself. What is the recourse? Like you could, 385 00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: you could quit the restaurant. if you're a victimized employee 386 00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:57,699 Speaker 1: or you could maybe convince management not to let that 387 00:24:57,780 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: customer come back? 388 00:24:59,260 --> 00:25:02,910 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's about it. That's about all you get. Because, 389 00:25:03,730 --> 00:25:06,970 Speaker 4: I mean, some places like, you know, but like, honestly, 390 00:25:07,030 --> 00:25:08,690 Speaker 4: if it's just like, oh, this person doesn't tip well, 391 00:25:09,010 --> 00:25:11,209 Speaker 4: that's not going to fly because they don't care. At 392 00:25:11,230 --> 00:25:12,590 Speaker 4: the end of the day, like that's money. I mean, 393 00:25:12,890 --> 00:25:14,909 Speaker 4: I've had, I mean, I worked at smaller restaurants. I 394 00:25:15,150 --> 00:25:16,990 Speaker 4: worked with some bigger ones. I did not like it. 395 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,900 Speaker 4: I usually worked at pretty small ones where I knew 396 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,050 Speaker 4: the owners as well and stuff like that. You get 397 00:25:21,070 --> 00:25:23,550 Speaker 4: a lot more leeway there. If you have somebody who 398 00:25:23,630 --> 00:25:27,550 Speaker 4: has like a pattern of just not tipping or just 399 00:25:27,609 --> 00:25:32,750 Speaker 4: being a total, just, I don't know, insert 37 different 400 00:25:32,770 --> 00:25:37,859 Speaker 4: words that I have to beep right here. Then, you know, 401 00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 4: they'll usually get your back. I would usually, I mean, I, 402 00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:43,619 Speaker 4: I would, I ended up doing a good bit of 403 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,540 Speaker 4: management management as well. And, you know, if somebody was awful, 404 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,689 Speaker 4: I would do my employees, I would throw them out. 405 00:25:48,730 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 4: We usually had the back. of our employees but you 406 00:25:51,900 --> 00:25:54,690 Speaker 4: don't really get much recourse especially here's the truth too 407 00:25:55,910 --> 00:25:59,690 Speaker 4: a lot of times you're picking up the check after 408 00:25:59,710 --> 00:26:03,310 Speaker 4: the person's gone so like you you you can pick 409 00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:05,550 Speaker 4: it up like i i still remember the the the 410 00:26:05,869 --> 00:26:08,490 Speaker 4: the one that pissed me off the most ever i 411 00:26:08,490 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 4: was like this is probably my first year or two 412 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 4: of me waiting tables in city atlanta i uh i 413 00:26:14,220 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 4: got this guy's car i picked up the guy's check 414 00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 4: and went and swiped his card his card was like 415 00:26:18,350 --> 00:26:21,290 Speaker 4: falling apart and i swiped it and it broke you 416 00:26:21,310 --> 00:26:24,910 Speaker 4: know the guy's card was like literally falling apart and 417 00:26:25,310 --> 00:26:27,930 Speaker 4: he wrote on the line like he didn't tip me 418 00:26:27,970 --> 00:26:31,330 Speaker 4: he's like thanks for breaking my card and i'm like 419 00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:36,490 Speaker 4: and i'm still they like you know resentments are dangerous 420 00:26:36,530 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 4: things to harbor And I've tried to process, but bring 421 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,460 Speaker 4: that one up right now. That's about 12, 13 years 422 00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:45,020 Speaker 4: in the past. And I'm still pretty pissed about that. 423 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I get it. That's rough, man. That's like 424 00:26:47,460 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 3: someone looking for a problem that doesn't exist. 425 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,659 Speaker 4: And then his friend didn't tip me as well, basically 426 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 4: because I broke his friend's card, which was already broken. 427 00:26:54,790 --> 00:26:57,110 Speaker 1: Oh, well, hopefully we will. 428 00:26:57,130 --> 00:26:57,730 Speaker 4: I'm angry now. 429 00:26:57,790 --> 00:27:02,710 Speaker 3: I have to go punch a wall. We will see justice. 430 00:27:02,950 --> 00:27:07,070 Speaker 1: Uh, we do know, um, God, yeah, that guy sounds 431 00:27:07,090 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: like a pill, man. I'm sorry that happened to you. 432 00:27:10,220 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: We do know that guy's going to have to walk 433 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 1: around being him the rest of his life. So that's 434 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:28,150 Speaker 1: a pretty damning consequence. We also know... that there are 435 00:27:28,550 --> 00:27:32,449 Speaker 1: real winners of the tipping system, at least according to 436 00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:38,100 Speaker 1: the anti-tipping critics, one of whom is Leon Trotsky, famously. 437 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,580 Speaker 1: That guy? Yeah, from earlier. Famously a resident of the 438 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,940 Speaker 1: Bronx for a while, and he did some other stuff 439 00:27:46,460 --> 00:27:50,500 Speaker 1: with Russia. He said the winners of this system are 440 00:27:50,580 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: restaurant owners, cough, cough, capitalists, because he had this whole 441 00:27:55,020 --> 00:27:56,100 Speaker 1: thing about capitalism. 442 00:27:56,730 --> 00:28:00,150 Speaker 2: Yeah, Trotsky actually had hot soup poured on him by 443 00:28:00,190 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 2: a waiter for his refusal to tip. 444 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,580 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because he was a guy who never shied 445 00:28:06,619 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: away from a speech. So can you imagine, just to 446 00:28:09,940 --> 00:28:14,540 Speaker 1: exercise empathy, can you imagine being the server and expecting 447 00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: some sort of gratuity, and all of a sudden this 448 00:28:17,980 --> 00:28:21,109 Speaker 1: guy is not only not tipping you, but he's making 449 00:28:21,150 --> 00:28:25,010 Speaker 1: you listen to his TED Talk about capitalism? you know, 450 00:28:25,109 --> 00:28:25,669 Speaker 1: and you have other tables. 451 00:28:25,690 --> 00:28:27,890 Speaker 3: Don't take it with Lanwell. Maybe he deserved the soup. 452 00:28:28,390 --> 00:28:30,740 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, time and a place, right? Just 453 00:28:31,140 --> 00:28:33,980 Speaker 1: slide your book across the table and say thank you. 454 00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:37,020 Speaker 4: I mean, this is a Sir, this is Wendy's moment 455 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,340 Speaker 4: right here. That's the best way to think of it. Sir, 456 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,719 Speaker 4: this is Wendy's. What are you doing about this? You 457 00:28:41,740 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 4: have this giant rant about this. It's still not going 458 00:28:44,420 --> 00:28:45,110 Speaker 4: to pay my bills. 459 00:28:45,530 --> 00:28:46,370 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 460 00:28:46,410 --> 00:28:49,770 Speaker 1: You can't pay me in poems and diatribes and jeremiads. 461 00:28:50,530 --> 00:28:53,270 Speaker 1: Maybe this is a good way for us to start 462 00:28:53,310 --> 00:28:56,230 Speaker 1: to wrap up this episode in the present day. I 463 00:28:57,410 --> 00:29:01,190 Speaker 1: don't know about you guys, but I was fascinated to 464 00:29:02,130 --> 00:29:07,540 Speaker 1: discover how deep the tipping versus anti-tipping debate went in 465 00:29:07,580 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: the United States, especially because it is so normalized today. 466 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: Like we mentioned Taft, a president. We mentioned Trotsky, a 467 00:29:16,780 --> 00:29:25,370 Speaker 1: legendary thought leader. what about tight-fisted millionaires rockefeller carnegie they 468 00:29:25,410 --> 00:29:28,210 Speaker 1: hated tipping which is kind of predictable. 469 00:29:27,940 --> 00:29:30,220 Speaker 2: Actually yeah i mean honestly it's kind of a trope 470 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,460 Speaker 2: that like rich people are some of the worst tippers right. 471 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,170 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah i i think they earned that stereotype too. 472 00:29:38,250 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 4: I will jump in here and say there is an 473 00:29:41,230 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 4: Instagram account that gained fame. Their names were Tips for Jesus, 474 00:29:45,220 --> 00:29:46,940 Speaker 4: where they would go to places and rack up these 475 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,420 Speaker 4: massive tabs and dip like $ 100, 000. And I think they 476 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,500 Speaker 4: figured it out, but I believe they were supposed to 477 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,570 Speaker 4: be like connected to like paypal the people who made 478 00:29:59,590 --> 00:30:01,230 Speaker 4: a bunch of money off of paypal so. 479 00:30:01,210 --> 00:30:03,270 Speaker 3: More like tips for clicks am i right. 480 00:30:03,690 --> 00:30:06,230 Speaker 4: Exactly like you know we would always dream like oh 481 00:30:06,270 --> 00:30:07,810 Speaker 4: man i really hope that they come in here because 482 00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:09,970 Speaker 4: they rack up a massive tab buy everything in the 483 00:30:10,030 --> 00:30:12,110 Speaker 4: restaurant and then like tip an insane amount of. 484 00:30:12,090 --> 00:30:16,230 Speaker 2: Money performative altruism i think we call that not to 485 00:30:16,250 --> 00:30:18,810 Speaker 2: diminish you know people doing good work but it is 486 00:30:18,850 --> 00:30:21,390 Speaker 2: sometimes easy to take To take issue with it when 487 00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:24,630 Speaker 2: it's done for the gram or, you know, like Mr. 488 00:30:24,690 --> 00:30:25,910 Speaker 2: Beast kind of stuff. 489 00:30:26,590 --> 00:30:28,310 Speaker 3: Look at me being good. 490 00:30:29,310 --> 00:30:29,570 Speaker 2: Right. 491 00:30:29,730 --> 00:30:33,450 Speaker 1: We also we also have to give credit where it's due. 492 00:30:34,730 --> 00:30:37,230 Speaker 1: I don't know how you guys feel about Dave Matthews band, 493 00:30:37,290 --> 00:30:40,430 Speaker 1: but apparently the front man, Dave, is a really good tipper. 494 00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:40,990 Speaker 2: Good. 495 00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:43,300 Speaker 3: Yeah. He's making up for all that poop he dumped 496 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,300 Speaker 3: on those poor people in Chicago. He didn't do that. 497 00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:47,860 Speaker 3: He did. 498 00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: The bus did. 499 00:30:49,180 --> 00:30:50,060 Speaker 4: It wasn't even his bus. 500 00:30:50,140 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 3: It was his bus. What are you talking about? 501 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:53,820 Speaker 1: Dave Matthews' band. 502 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,340 Speaker 3: Unloaded a septic tank over. 503 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,140 Speaker 4: I thought it was the violin player's bus. 504 00:30:57,270 --> 00:30:59,070 Speaker 3: No, it was the band. I was like, he had 505 00:30:59,110 --> 00:31:00,850 Speaker 3: his own bus, the violin player. 506 00:31:01,590 --> 00:31:04,350 Speaker 4: I found out about this thing live on an episode. 507 00:31:04,690 --> 00:31:06,950 Speaker 4: How detailed do you think I know this story? 508 00:31:07,010 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 2: Maybe I don't have all the facts, Max. They are 509 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 2: big enough that perhaps each member could have had their 510 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,260 Speaker 2: own bus, but it was my understanding that it was... 511 00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:17,230 Speaker 2: the Dave Matthews band and the people commemorate the, this 512 00:31:17,290 --> 00:31:21,730 Speaker 2: fortuitous date in history. Ben, you, you included for the 513 00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:23,690 Speaker 2: wrap up here, kind of a little table of some 514 00:31:23,730 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 2: expectations around tipping. And I just thought in setting that up, 515 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,540 Speaker 2: I did have a question and Max, maybe you can 516 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 2: shed some light on this too. If you're eating at 517 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 2: a fancy restaurant and the bill is really expensive, like 518 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 2: really expensive, like, I guess it still eludes me as 519 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:50,090 Speaker 2: to why just standard waiter treatment deserves, earns like the 520 00:31:50,090 --> 00:31:53,230 Speaker 2: $ 300 tip. Like, it's like, where does that, I mean, 521 00:31:53,290 --> 00:31:55,010 Speaker 2: is it like, okay, you lucked out. You got a 522 00:31:55,030 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 2: job at a really fancy restaurant. Therefore, you're entitled to 523 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,500 Speaker 2: like way more tips than someone working at Waffle House 524 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 2: doing the same job gets? 525 00:32:03,370 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, I defer to Max here. 526 00:32:05,670 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 2: I'm just saying in some situations, there's definitely extra stuff. 527 00:32:09,260 --> 00:32:11,970 Speaker 3: There's more volume and all of that stuff. I get it. 528 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,980 Speaker 2: But it's also like sometimes it confuses me or eludes 529 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,540 Speaker 2: me when I go to a fancy restaurant and the 530 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,050 Speaker 2: person is just doing the lease. 531 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,230 Speaker 3: And then they expect to get that 20% of a 532 00:32:20,210 --> 00:32:20,610 Speaker 3: $ 200 bill. 533 00:32:20,650 --> 00:32:20,730 Speaker 2: Yeah. 534 00:32:20,750 --> 00:32:20,890 Speaker 3: Yeah. 535 00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:27,610 Speaker 4: Yeah, that is a tricky particular man right there because 536 00:32:27,670 --> 00:32:29,390 Speaker 4: I have worked– I never worked like fine dining. I 537 00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:31,910 Speaker 4: worked what was called casual dining. I hated it. I 538 00:32:31,930 --> 00:32:35,090 Speaker 4: went back to working bars as soon as possible because 539 00:32:35,910 --> 00:32:38,190 Speaker 4: the churn and burn of a bar is you're just 540 00:32:38,210 --> 00:32:40,210 Speaker 4: doing so much more volume that it's just easy and 541 00:32:40,230 --> 00:32:41,700 Speaker 4: that's kind of like a Waffle House server. You're just 542 00:32:41,740 --> 00:32:45,100 Speaker 4: doing so much volume that like– When you're working at 543 00:32:45,140 --> 00:32:47,260 Speaker 4: a place like that, you're doing so many less tables, 544 00:32:47,460 --> 00:32:49,150 Speaker 4: so you're so much more dependent on it. 545 00:32:49,220 --> 00:32:49,940 Speaker 3: That's right. 546 00:32:50,350 --> 00:32:51,890 Speaker 2: I guess what I'm saying is at a place like 547 00:32:51,930 --> 00:32:55,410 Speaker 2: that with an experience like that where the bill is 548 00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:58,850 Speaker 2: that high, I guess I sometimes expect the wait staff– 549 00:32:59,390 --> 00:33:01,430 Speaker 2: to be a little more like a maitre d' or 550 00:33:01,470 --> 00:33:04,050 Speaker 2: like to really have some interesting information or to like, 551 00:33:04,090 --> 00:33:07,620 Speaker 2: you know, share details about the dishes or really give 552 00:33:07,660 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 2: you an expertise, a level of expertise about the wine pairing. 553 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 3: And I mean, I'm not trying to be Mr. Bougie boy. 554 00:33:12,660 --> 00:33:15,100 Speaker 2: I don't eat out fancy that often, but I just 555 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,219 Speaker 2: feel like if you're expected to pay 25% or whatever 556 00:33:18,620 --> 00:33:21,620 Speaker 2: on a massive bill like that, this person should have 557 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,020 Speaker 2: a little extra bona fides as well. 558 00:33:23,060 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I hear you. 559 00:33:24,670 --> 00:33:26,630 Speaker 4: And that's where I'm kind of getting to the whole 560 00:33:26,670 --> 00:33:29,990 Speaker 4: like thing where you probably heard me waffling and like 561 00:33:30,050 --> 00:33:32,310 Speaker 4: hedging a little bit at the beginning because you're supposed 562 00:33:32,330 --> 00:33:34,110 Speaker 4: to do that because it's like, you know, hey, you 563 00:33:34,170 --> 00:33:37,050 Speaker 4: have this really small section. You are supposed to be 564 00:33:37,170 --> 00:33:39,540 Speaker 4: at this table explaining stuff, bringing down like I've I've 565 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,260 Speaker 4: had a lot of friends who like worked like. like 566 00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:45,460 Speaker 4: as like nice steak houses and stuff like that, who, 567 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,180 Speaker 4: you know, are routinely, and they're bringing home really good 568 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 4: money and they have like, and they're like, you know, 569 00:33:50,740 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 4: SA server assistants are super knowledgeable would be like running 570 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,110 Speaker 4: other restaurants. They're doing this because they're making good money. 571 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,170 Speaker 4: So it is tricky in that way. But I mean, 572 00:34:00,190 --> 00:34:03,250 Speaker 4: I think the, at the root of the problem, it 573 00:34:03,290 --> 00:34:05,710 Speaker 4: goes down to this whole thing of just, you know, 574 00:34:05,730 --> 00:34:09,350 Speaker 4: the person's livelihood being dumped on the customer. 575 00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:14,150 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the onus of it. And to respond to 576 00:34:14,190 --> 00:34:18,890 Speaker 1: these points, which you can tell, again, folks, we're reiterating 577 00:34:19,390 --> 00:34:23,100 Speaker 1: the great U.S. debate about tipping. If you go to 578 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: a very high-end dining establishment in other countries, there will 579 00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:32,129 Speaker 1: be a service charge included typically, right? 580 00:34:32,190 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 2: Oh, about that. It complicates things. It decomplicates things. things 581 00:34:36,739 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 2: so significantly. And Ben, in this list of yours here, 582 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,819 Speaker 2: I mean, I was, you know, maybe, I don't know, 583 00:34:42,900 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: maybe 10 years ago that I realized you're supposed to 584 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,989 Speaker 2: tip hotel housekeeping, a service that goes largely unnoticed. It's invisible, 585 00:34:52,110 --> 00:34:53,830 Speaker 2: you know, at its best. You're supposed to like, it 586 00:34:53,850 --> 00:34:55,590 Speaker 2: happens and you come back and your room's clean. You 587 00:34:55,610 --> 00:34:58,910 Speaker 2: don't see these folks interact with these folks often. And 588 00:34:58,930 --> 00:35:02,470 Speaker 2: there is an expectation of tip, but like nobody tells 589 00:35:02,510 --> 00:35:04,989 Speaker 2: you that. You kind of have to just learn that 590 00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:07,690 Speaker 2: through like societal mores or whatever. 591 00:35:07,730 --> 00:35:10,790 Speaker 1: Another unwritten rule, man. And if you're in a fine 592 00:35:10,850 --> 00:35:16,570 Speaker 1: dining establishment in the United States, you'll often see automated 593 00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: service charge only kicks in if you have a certain 594 00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: number of people at your table, right? So that's where 595 00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:26,540 Speaker 1: you'll see the little note that says parties of five 596 00:35:26,580 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: or parties of six or more will have an automatic 597 00:35:29,219 --> 00:35:30,299 Speaker 1: gratuity added. 598 00:35:31,350 --> 00:35:33,230 Speaker 4: And the legality of that has been challenged. 599 00:35:33,770 --> 00:35:36,430 Speaker 1: Yeah, the legality of that is tricky. It's kind of 600 00:35:36,450 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 1: like when you go to a gas station and they 601 00:35:39,780 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: want to charge you extra for using a credit card, right, 602 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,020 Speaker 1: below a certain threshold. That's also technically illegal in a 603 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: lot of places. 604 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 4: I know friends who have worked at restaurants where basically 605 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,820 Speaker 4: they have– the way that they're making their money is 606 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,180 Speaker 4: they're doing so many large parties and their entire night 607 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,180 Speaker 4: is just working this party. And then– They take away 608 00:35:58,219 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 4: the gratuity coverage on that. So then now they can work. 609 00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 4: I remember my friend Jessica, she worked this, it was 610 00:36:04,140 --> 00:36:06,620 Speaker 4: like a high school graduation party. It was like a 611 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 4: 50-person party. She got tipped 20 bucks on it because 612 00:36:09,020 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 4: they took away the gratuity on it. 613 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,939 Speaker 1: Wow. Was Michael Jordan in the party? The famous anti-tipper 614 00:36:15,020 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: from the Chicago Bulls? 615 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 4: Probably. 616 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,620 Speaker 1: We also, here's one. No, I feel you on the 617 00:36:22,820 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 1: housekeeping idea. Valet parking. is another one where it's complimentary 618 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,060 Speaker 1: parking if you're a jerk. That's the implication, right? 619 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,450 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's almost never complimentary. Valet parking almost exclusively, 620 00:36:38,469 --> 00:36:41,730 Speaker 2: in my experience, especially if it comes with a hotel stay, 621 00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:45,690 Speaker 2: it's a daily charge, right? to valet your car and 622 00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:47,660 Speaker 2: have them return it to you and keep it in 623 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,660 Speaker 2: the garage. But then if the valet is literally going 624 00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 2: and fetching your car, driving it out, returning it to you, 625 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,900 Speaker 2: they absolutely deserve a tip. But sometimes these services are 626 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,350 Speaker 2: so overpriced that it's almost a sticker shock that probably 627 00:37:01,630 --> 00:37:03,030 Speaker 2: keeps a lot of people from tipping. 628 00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:06,989 Speaker 1: Yeah, what I'm talking about here more is going to, 629 00:37:07,130 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: back to the restaurant idea, going to a restaurant that 630 00:37:09,340 --> 00:37:11,300 Speaker 1: has complimentary valet parking. 631 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 3: Got it. 632 00:37:12,110 --> 00:37:15,029 Speaker 1: You know, and then, uh, if you don't tip it, 633 00:37:15,650 --> 00:37:20,069 Speaker 1: as you can see, folks, there's a whole regimen of 634 00:37:20,510 --> 00:37:26,110 Speaker 1: relatively unwritten rules that the United States is still trying 635 00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: to figure out. We definitely understand that a lot of, uh, 636 00:37:31,230 --> 00:37:34,350 Speaker 1: areas in other parts of the world that get American 637 00:37:34,450 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: tourists are having versions of the same conversation, you know, like, uh, 638 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,240 Speaker 1: You'll see a lot of expats say Paris is getting 639 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:49,290 Speaker 1: ruined by Americans who are exporting tipping culture, right? You'll 640 00:37:49,310 --> 00:37:52,890 Speaker 1: see that happening in cities throughout the world. And a 641 00:37:52,930 --> 00:37:57,290 Speaker 1: big part of this also here at home goes back 642 00:37:57,350 --> 00:38:04,860 Speaker 1: to the idea that there is a wide spectrum of 643 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,879 Speaker 1: minimum payment in the United States today. depending on which 644 00:38:09,940 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: state you're going in. Like Washington, you're going to make 645 00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:16,489 Speaker 1: more money than you would in, say, oh, what's the 646 00:38:16,530 --> 00:38:20,310 Speaker 1: worst one, guys? West Virginia, maybe? 647 00:38:20,870 --> 00:38:26,469 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, yeah, the minimum wage for tipped employees 648 00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:30,850 Speaker 4: is a very divisive topic, to say the least. It's 649 00:38:32,110 --> 00:38:33,690 Speaker 4: one of these things where, so I guess, like, the 650 00:38:33,710 --> 00:38:35,610 Speaker 4: common thing is, like, important thing to know beforehand is 651 00:38:36,870 --> 00:38:39,609 Speaker 4: while there's the federal minimum wage, you can obviously go 652 00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:42,390 Speaker 4: above it. You just can't go below it. And a 653 00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:45,890 Speaker 4: lot of States have actually been pretty proactive about increasing 654 00:38:46,010 --> 00:38:49,450 Speaker 4: this minimum wage, uh, mostly on the West, uh, coast 655 00:38:49,550 --> 00:38:54,230 Speaker 4: or the Western part of the country, such as like California, Nevada, Arizona, 656 00:38:54,350 --> 00:38:56,790 Speaker 4: and Washington, Washington's highest in the country at $ 17 and 657 00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:58,069 Speaker 4: 13 cents or a clear $ 15 more per hour than 658 00:38:58,090 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 4: the federal minimum wage. Um, But there are some interesting ones. 659 00:39:08,420 --> 00:39:11,580 Speaker 4: So like Montana has one if you're a business over 660 00:39:11,580 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 4: $ 110, 000 gross annual sales. It's $ 11. Under that, it's $ 4. 661 00:39:16,980 --> 00:39:18,779 Speaker 4: There's a big thing about like, oh, you're going to 662 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,650 Speaker 4: drive these companies out of business if you increase the 663 00:39:21,690 --> 00:39:24,570 Speaker 4: tip wage to make tip employees actually make a real wage. 664 00:39:25,230 --> 00:39:26,649 Speaker 2: Well, like I was saying earlier, too, like, I mean, 665 00:39:26,670 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 2: I can see how maybe with smaller independent run, you know, 666 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:36,219 Speaker 2: businesses and restaurants, they're so in danger of, you know, 667 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 2: closing often. 668 00:39:37,380 --> 00:39:40,290 Speaker 3: I mean, like the margins are really, really slim. And, 669 00:39:40,370 --> 00:39:41,170 Speaker 3: you know, what did I say? 670 00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:45,570 Speaker 2: Like new restaurants, there's the ratio of new restaurants closing 671 00:39:45,989 --> 00:39:47,850 Speaker 2: after a very brief period of time is pretty high. 672 00:39:48,610 --> 00:39:52,089 Speaker 2: But with like, you know, like massive, like Applebee's and 673 00:39:52,170 --> 00:39:55,009 Speaker 2: TGI Fridays and stuff like that. It just seems like 674 00:39:55,090 --> 00:39:58,529 Speaker 2: it benefits the, you know, the corporations more than it 675 00:39:58,570 --> 00:39:59,370 Speaker 2: does the individuals. 676 00:40:00,180 --> 00:40:02,700 Speaker 4: It very much. So, uh, I do also want to 677 00:40:02,739 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 4: point out Oregon for being the extra little diva they are. 678 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,419 Speaker 4: That's just how Oregon is on things. And I love Oregon. 679 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 4: You guys know that where they have different wages, depending 680 00:40:11,140 --> 00:40:14,300 Speaker 4: on what part you're in. So statewide has one, uh, 681 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 4: Metro of Portland has one. And then, uh, rural counties 682 00:40:17,620 --> 00:40:20,259 Speaker 4: are not urban ones have one, but, uh, I found 683 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,219 Speaker 4: that 12 states slash territories have now a federal tip 684 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,540 Speaker 4: minimum wage of $ 10 or more per hour. So that's 685 00:40:28,580 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 4: the good. Started with the good. There are 19 states 686 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,420 Speaker 4: slash territories that still have $ 2. 13 an hour, including our 687 00:40:37,460 --> 00:40:38,420 Speaker 4: home state of Georgia. 688 00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:40,010 Speaker 3: That's insane. It's true. 689 00:40:40,030 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 2: We never said out loud what that number is. To 690 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,890 Speaker 2: hear it, I had no idea that was still a thing. 691 00:40:45,170 --> 00:40:47,970 Speaker 2: I remember that being the case when I was working 692 00:40:48,010 --> 00:40:49,890 Speaker 2: in restaurants. That is indefensible. 693 00:40:50,469 --> 00:40:55,469 Speaker 1: It's unfathomable for sure. We also know that a lot 694 00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:59,810 Speaker 1: of famous authors were against tipping, including Mark Twain and 695 00:40:59,950 --> 00:41:03,570 Speaker 1: Ralph Waldo Emerson, who I accidentally put in the notes 696 00:41:03,700 --> 00:41:09,779 Speaker 1: as Ralph Walso Emerson, which is funny. But we have 697 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 1: so much more to get to. We do have good 698 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,300 Speaker 1: news for you, folks. We are not ever going to 699 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,169 Speaker 1: ask you for a financial tip. If you do want 700 00:41:19,210 --> 00:41:22,989 Speaker 1: to tip us, why not head over to your podcast 701 00:41:23,050 --> 00:41:27,760 Speaker 1: platform of choice and hit us up with a nice review. 702 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,580 Speaker 3: It does make a difference. 703 00:41:30,260 --> 00:41:35,900 Speaker 1: Yes, we greatly appreciate you. We're super grateful for everybody 704 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,340 Speaker 1: tuning in. Big thanks to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams, 705 00:41:40,420 --> 00:41:44,489 Speaker 1: for lending some firsthand experience. Big thanks, of course, to 706 00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:50,069 Speaker 1: to Jonathan Strickland, a.k.a. The Quister, who, as we know, 707 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,219 Speaker 1: outside of podcasting, has fought for the entirety of his 708 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,620 Speaker 1: life to keep Georgia's minimum wage at $ 2. 13 an hour. 709 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 1: Where do you get these things, man? 710 00:42:00,260 --> 00:42:03,910 Speaker 3: Where does this come from? It comes from him. That's true. 711 00:42:04,650 --> 00:42:06,870 Speaker 3: But not true. He's actually an okay guy. But we 712 00:42:06,930 --> 00:42:07,590 Speaker 3: hate him! 713 00:42:09,230 --> 00:42:13,430 Speaker 1: We hate him so, which is why we keep hanging 714 00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:16,830 Speaker 1: out with him on this show. Do tune in for 715 00:42:16,930 --> 00:42:19,970 Speaker 1: future episodes with the quizster. In the meantime, big shout 716 00:42:20,030 --> 00:42:23,879 Speaker 1: out to AJ Bahamas, Jacobs, AKA the puzzler, as well 717 00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: as a Dr. Rachel, big spinach, Lance. 718 00:42:27,660 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 3: Oh, big spin herself. 719 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,580 Speaker 2: Christopher Osiotis needs Jeff codes here in spirit. The rude 720 00:42:31,620 --> 00:42:35,060 Speaker 2: dudes and ridiculous crime. If you like our show, you're 721 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,219 Speaker 2: probably going to like them. And Hey, We'll see you 722 00:42:38,260 --> 00:42:47,910 Speaker 2: next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit 723 00:42:47,930 --> 00:42:50,980 Speaker 2: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 724 00:42:51,020 --> 00:42:51,940 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.