1 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: Hey or heey. Have you ever wanted to go visit 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: another star or even a far away galaxy? Totally? I 3 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: mean wouldn't, although you know, it kind of depends on 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: what the accommodations are over there, Like are we going 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: to be camping on a rock basically for the rest 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: of my life? Or isn't going to be a beautiful place. Well, 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to get pictures in advance. If 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: you're the first human to ever land on this surface. 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: There aren't any Airbnb reviews yet. You can't trust YEP 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: to do everything for you. But I guess the problem 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: is how would we even get there? Isn't it really 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: hard to go to another star or galaxy? It is 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: really hard, which means we have to be really creative 14 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: and sometimes looking unexpected places for sources of inspiration and 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: power than in a fusion use the energy trapped in 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: bad punts. Well what if I told you you could 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: actually make use of a black hole? But I thought 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: black holes were just like traps that trapped you there forever. 19 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: I mean, they can actually be useful. You might get 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: nervous when we talk about black holes in a positive light, 21 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: but they do have a possible practical applications. I am 22 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: more handmade cartoonists and the creator of PhD comments. Hi. 23 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I'm paid by 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: the Big black Hole corporate consortium to talk positively about 25 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: black holes wherever I can. Really, you've switched to black 26 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: hole PR now or astronomical PR. That's right, I'm funded 27 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: by Big black Hole. You went from physics research to 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: public relations PR. No, but I like black holes. I'm 29 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: definitely pro black hole. I mean, I'm not pro the 30 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: Earth getting sucked into one or you and your loved 31 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: ones being killed by one, but I'm fascinated by them, 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: and I would love to study one and to create one, 33 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: and of course do it all very safely. Yet would 34 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: you visit one? I would visit a black hole if 35 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: it was big enough that you could come close to 36 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: the event horizon without being torn apart by the tidal forces. 37 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, are you starting a tour company to the 38 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: center of the galaxy? And I am definitely anti black hole, 39 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: But in this universe it's hard to tell sometimes what 40 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: could be useful or what could be something that will 41 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: kill you instantly. So welcome to our podcast. Daniel and 42 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of My Heart Radio 43 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: in which we examine everything in the universe, from the 44 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: tiny to the massive, from the dangerous to the cozy, 45 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: and we talk about whether it could help us answer 46 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: our questions, whether it could take us on a journey 47 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: to the stars, or whether it just helps us zoom 48 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 1: in and understand the universe at the smallest, most microscopic level. Yeah, 49 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: we like to talk about all the possible ways out 50 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: there that we could maybe visit or travel to other 51 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: places in our galaxy or in the universe, because it 52 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: seems like it's all out they're waiting for us to 53 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: go visit and study. That's right. I feel like we 54 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: are in the early days of the human age of exploration, 55 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: where we learn about what our galaxy looks like and 56 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: what's out there and who is out there. But so 57 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: far it's still sort of shrouded in mystery for us. 58 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: And if we could only get out there, if we 59 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: could send people or probes or something, we could learn 60 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: so much about what's out there in the universe and 61 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: how things work. Yeah, I feel like we're almost like 62 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: stuck in a deserted island in the middle of the ocean. 63 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: You know, like there's such a huge gap between us 64 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: and maybe other things, and we don't even know if 65 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: we can make it out there, or what would happen 66 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: if we went out there. That it's kind of preventing 67 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: us from spreading out into the cosmos. It is, and 68 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: it's frustrating to know that that knowledge is just sitting 69 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: out there waiting for us. Alien civilizations or not, crazy 70 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: planets or not. Whatever is out there, it's just waiting 71 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: for us, literally sitting there, waiting for us to come 72 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: and check it out and learn things about the universe. 73 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: And whenever there's like a bare year between us and deep, 74 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: powerful cosmic knowledge about the universe, it just drives me crazy. 75 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: I just want to pierce through it or around it, 76 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: or whatever preposition you need to use. But I want 77 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: to get that knowledge, and I want us to understand 78 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: how the universe works. Doesn't make you want to be 79 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: an engineer, Daniel, so you could actually make something useful. 80 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: It makes me want to be a physicist so I 81 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 1: could have a clever idea which I could then pass 82 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: to the engineers who would make something useful. I see, 83 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: there are limits to your curiosities. What you're saying there's 84 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: limits to my practical ability to build something, but no 85 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: limits to my imagination. All right, Well, it is a 86 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: very big problem to get to other stars, into other galaxies. 87 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: And we've talked about in the program before about different 88 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: ways to power our spaceship out into the cosmos, because 89 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: it's really hard to bring all the fuel with you 90 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: that you'll need to get to somewhere far away. Yeah, 91 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: you need to build a really big ship if you're 92 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: gonna bring a lot of people and you're going to 93 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: keep them safe from cosmic radiation, and then you need 94 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: to bring some source of fuel to get you there. 95 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: So people have been struggling with this question for decades, 96 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: for maybe even longer than that. And there's some crazy 97 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: ideas out there. We've talked before about instead of just 98 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: building a ship, move the whole Solar system by building 99 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: a stellar engine, something that would turn our star into 100 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: an engine. Yeah, and so on the episode today, we'll 101 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: be talking about another crazy idea that physicists are toy with, 102 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: thinking about and spitballing about. And this one involves black holes. 103 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: All the craziest, most fun ideas involved black holes. It's 104 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: about as crazy as you can get I guess in 105 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: this universe. So today on the program, we'll be asking 106 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: the question could a black hole power a starship? Wow? 107 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: That's crazy? What what does that even mean? Well, first 108 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: of all, it's stemmed me through like where did this 109 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: idea come from that? Did you wake up with it 110 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: one morning? Or is this something that's actually being discussed 111 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: at like physics conferences? Oh? Man, I wish I could 112 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: take credit for this idea, but no, this idea, like 113 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,679 Speaker 1: many great creative ideas in science, came from science fiction. 114 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: This was first written about by Arthur C. Clark in 115 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: a short story he wrote called Imperial Earth. Wow, so 116 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: a long time ago, quite a while ago. Yeah, it's 117 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: a fairly old idea. And then since Hawking revolutionized our 118 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: understanding of black holes, and in the last ten or 119 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: fifteen years we've made some progress in quantum gravity. People 120 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: have started sitting down, like doing the calculations and figuring 121 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: out like, couldn't you do this? Is this possible? Is 122 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: there a fundamental physics reason that says no? Or could 123 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: we just pass it off to the engineers to figure 124 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: it out? Didn't Arthur C. Clark sort of foresee, another 125 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: huge thing, wasn't it the Internet or something like that. 126 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure that he and other science fiction writers foresaw 127 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: a lot of what's real. The cool thing is that 128 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: they also foresaw a lot of stuff that didn't happen. Right, 129 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: So I see, you don't really pay attention to the denominator. 130 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: Just like spew a bunch of crazy predictions, and if 131 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: you hit a few, then you know, you become famous 132 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: for foreseeing the future. Your visionary right, even if your 133 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: hit rate is low. That's right. I got a room 134 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: full of monkeys predicting the future. One of them is 135 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: a genius, because I make real a genius for having 136 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: the monkeys or but anyways, it's a crazy idea. So 137 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: the idea is to use a black hole to power 138 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: your starship. And so we'll get into the diesel because 139 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: I have a lot of questions about this crazy idea. 140 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: But first we were wondering how many people out there 141 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: I thought this was a good idea, or I had 142 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: heard of this idea. So Daniel went out there and 143 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: asked to the Internet if they knew the answer to 144 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: this question. That's right, And we're always looking for volunteers, 145 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: people who are interested in speculating baselessly on questions. We 146 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: asked them for future episodes, so if you'd like to participate, 147 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: please write to us two questions at Daniel and Jorge 148 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: dot com. So think about it for a second. If 149 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: someone asked you if you thought you could use a 150 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: black hole to power a starship, what would you as? 151 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: There here's what people had to say. If he wants 152 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: you to use an actual like black hole as an 153 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: engine to propel yourself around, I don't think that would 154 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: work because surely for a normal engine you need something 155 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: that applies a force in the opposite direction that you're moving, 156 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: so that the resulting force pushes you to where you 157 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: want to go. But surely a black hole would just 158 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: suck everything in. Well that would be cool, yes, I well, 159 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: probably theoretically can be done. I don't know in how 160 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: much time can this be put in practic cern For sure, 161 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 1: it's working on it, of course, because they usually want 162 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: to start trek the next generation. I think you could 163 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: use it in part for a spaceship that's designed for 164 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: faster than light travel. It's the idea of compressing the 165 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: space in front of you and expanding it behind you 166 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: is a primary engine. I don't think so you can 167 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: definitely use a stellar stationary black hole to propel your 168 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: ship in an arbitrary direction. You just calibrate a trajectory 169 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: so that you avoid falling in and avoid being destroyed 170 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: by tidal forces, and have the black holes link shot 171 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: you to an arbitrary direction. I think that you cannot 172 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: use the black hole as a spaceship engine because you 173 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: everything New York gets sucked in, so it can suck 174 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: in bits of your spaceship blue by little, depending on 175 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: its size. I'm sure that a space draft can use 176 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: a black hool as an as an engine. I'm trying 177 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: to think, how would you use the energy from the 178 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: black hole? Alright, Well, we got about as many different 179 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: answers as people answering the question. Yeah, well it seems 180 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: like people think it's cool. It's a cool idea, but 181 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: there was some skepticism like how would that even work? 182 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: And there are lots of different ideas here about how 183 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: it could work, like could you use it to make 184 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: a warp drive by compressing spased run of you? Very 185 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: cool idea, or just like the gravitational assist right using 186 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: as a slingshot, or people thinking that certain is currently 187 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,839 Speaker 1: working on a black hole drive are you. I can 188 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: either confirm nor deny that. Do you have a room 189 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: full of monkeys working on it? There at certain one 190 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: of my monkeys is working on it. I bet you do. Look, monkeys, 191 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: just don't press this button. I'll be back in an hour. 192 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: I have to do a podcast. Well, these are pretty 193 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: good monkeys if they can understand instructions like that, Danny. Yeah, 194 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: they come from the best universities. So it's kind of 195 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: a crazy idea, and people seem to think it was 196 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: maybe possible, And you're right, there are many different ways 197 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: that you could attack this, Like you could use the 198 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: black hole itself, like as a gateway. Isn't that a possibility? Oh? 199 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: I suppose if a black hole is just like a 200 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: doorway to a wormhole connected to a white hole somewhere 201 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: else in space, then yeah, I suppose you could use 202 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: that as a way to get through the universe. I 203 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: love that this question and has inspired so much creative thinking. 204 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: But nobody who answered these questions hit on what is 205 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: actually the idea that's being considered in the community for 206 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: how a black hole could power a starship. Nobody had 207 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: read Arthur's c Clark. I guess or all of his 208 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: collected works. No, none of those folks are up on 209 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: the latest there. All right, well let's jump right into Daniel. 210 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: How would you even use a black hole to power 211 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: your starship? And if it's powered by a black hole, 212 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: do you have to call it a black hole ship? 213 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: I'll leave it to you to name the eventual ship 214 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: once we build it. But the idea is that a 215 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: black hole actually satisfies a lot of the requirements you 216 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: need for fueling a starship. It's very very dense, and 217 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: so it's a great way to store energy, and it's 218 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: very efficient because it turns that energy into radiation. Remember, 219 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: many people think about black holes as a fold in space, 220 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: a place where nothing can escape, not even light. But 221 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: black holes are not actually totally black. They radiate a 222 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: very small amount of radiation, and they're turning essentially their 223 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: own mass into radiation. And the basic idea of the 224 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: black hole starship is to take advantage of that, the 225 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 1: black hole turning its mass into radiation and using that 226 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: radiation to provide thrust for a starship. Oh I see, 227 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: all right, So a pro idea for using black holes 228 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: as fuel is that one. It's first of all, you 229 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: said it's very dense. I guess it is very dense 230 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: in that you can crame a lot into it but 231 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: not require like a big chamber to hold it. What 232 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: do you mean precisely? I mean it doesn't get more 233 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: dense than a black hole. Anything else you get to 234 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: that same density is just going to turn into a 235 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: black hole. So the black hole is by definition the 236 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: most dense storage of energy. So I guess, like if 237 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: you had to pack a star that would be pretty 238 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: hard because you need a big container. Yes, exactly, exactly, 239 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: And that's the other advantage about black holes is that 240 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: they contain themselves. What are the common alternatives for using 241 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: a starship? Is like antimatter? What if you store antimatter 242 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: in your starship and use matter antimatter reactions to provide 243 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: the energy, Right, that seems like a better idea. Yeah, well, 244 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: the problem is antimatter is really hard to store. It's 245 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: very reactive. It could blow up your ship. Black hole 246 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: store themselves. They contain themselves, They are their own bottle, 247 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: and so they really have an advantage there over antimatter. Oh, 248 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: I see what you're saying, Like, it doesn't have anything 249 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: like dangerous that could get out. I mean as long 250 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: as you don't slip and fall into the black hole, 251 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: you're pretty safe, right, that seems kind of We'll just 252 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: put up a sign, you know. I'm sure we'll put 253 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: a sign. People will sign a waiver. They'll be fine. 254 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: Those yellow cones or prop up things. Which is like 255 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: a stick figure falling into a black hole, that would 256 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: be the warning. We'll let you draw the sign. Yeah, 257 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: exactly where a helmet. And the basic problem that you're 258 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: trying to solve by using a black hole is efficient 259 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: conversion of fuel into thrust because as a lot of 260 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 1: the other more common methods of accelerating the starship are 261 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: just very inefficient, like fusion or fission. They're wonderful, but 262 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: they don't capture most of the mass in your fuel 263 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: and turn it into energy. There's a very low efficiency there, 264 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: and so you end up bringing a huge amount of 265 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: fuel and then more fuel to carry that fuel, and 266 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: more fuel to carry that fuel. So you want a 267 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: source of energy that's very, very efficient in converting its 268 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: mass into your thrust. And that's where black holes really 269 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: can't be beaten. Like literally, you can't beat them. There's 270 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: nothing hit him with a stick. It just eats up 271 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: the stick. That's right. And there's another really fascinating feature 272 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: about black holes that makes them well suited to being 273 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: a source of energy for a starship. There's a lot 274 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: of details to get right to get your black hole 275 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: to power your starship. Well, let's get into that, and 276 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: also a lot of these details about how you would 277 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: make a black hole power your starship. But first let's 278 00:14:54,280 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: take a quick break. All right, we're talking about the 279 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: idea of using a black hole to power your starship 280 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: to get to another galaxy or another star, or maybe 281 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: to another galaxy cluster even and so, Daniel, the idea 282 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: is that I would somehow bottle a black hole and 283 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: then bring it with me. You're saying, the first advantage 284 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: is that it's really compact, meaning like I could keep 285 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: it in my pocket even. Yeah, the kind of black 286 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: hole we're talking about that would power a reasonable flight 287 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: would have a radius, you know, less than ten to 288 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: the eighteen meters. It would be really really small. Oh wow, 289 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: would be like a microscopic Yeah, microscopic. And you wouldn't 290 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: even need to bottle it. Remember, black holes are their 291 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: own bottles, so you don't really need to put it 292 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: in anything. You could just have the raw black hole bear. Well, 293 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: I guess that's my first question about this idea is like, 294 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: how would you even carry it around? Like does it 295 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: sit on something? Does it you just let it flow 296 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: next to you. I'd even like bring it with you. Well, 297 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: you don't bring it with you. It brings you with it, right, 298 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: that's the idea. It's like you're hitching a ride. You're 299 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: hitching a ride on a black hole exactly. And so 300 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: how do you turn a black hole into an engine? 301 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: All right? Remember that black holes radiate or they shoot 302 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: off this hawking radiation, and this is theoretical. Still nobody's 303 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: ever actually seen hawking radiation, but they shoot off hawking radiation. 304 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: And the fascinating things that this happens more for small 305 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: black holes, like really big black holes from stars or 306 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: supermassive black holes hardly radiate at all. But the theory 307 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: is that as black holes get smaller, they radiate even more. 308 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: Like how much more like like it's shining, like it's 309 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: like a small black hole would actually be bright, Yes, 310 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: it would be bright. It would be dangerous. You would 311 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: have to wear protection. The kind of black hole we're 312 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: talking about when it's like, you know about a billion kilograms. 313 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: This is like two times the mass of the Empire 314 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: State building. This thing would really a hundred and sixty 315 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: petal whites of energy, two thousand times the worldwide energy 316 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: consumption every year. Okay, so let's walk through this scenario. 317 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: So I take two Empire State buildings and I somehow 318 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: compressed them into a black hole, which would be about 319 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: ten to the minus eighteen meters. I like, how you're 320 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: making this like an internet recipe sugar cookies or black 321 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: hole dry. I'm an engineer. I gotta I gotta know 322 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: the instructions here. So I take the two Empire State's building, 323 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: I compressed them into tents of the minus meters and 324 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: now have a black hole. It's really tiny. It's like 325 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: a basically a pinpoint. It's basically a pin point. And 326 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: we can talk later about more practical ways to actually 327 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: make these black holes and involves enormous space lasers, but 328 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: that's basically the recipe. Get that much amount of energy 329 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: into that small or radius and you have a black hole. 330 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: And black holes that are that small. That's very small 331 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 1: for a black hole. You know, black holes out in 332 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: the universe are measured in units of the mass of 333 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: the Sun. This is a tiny, tiny, little black hole, 334 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: and so it radiates a lot, a lot more than 335 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: any black hole that's out there sort of scattered around 336 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: the universe. A synthetic black hole on a human scale 337 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: would radiate a lot more than natural black holes. Oh, 338 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: I see, so a small black hole is actually and 339 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: not black, it's really shiny. Yeah. The smaller the black hole, 340 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: the more radiated because the amount of things radiate depend 341 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: on their temperature. And this is something that Stephen Hawking 342 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: discovered that black holes have a temperature, and everything in 343 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,719 Speaker 1: the universe that has a temperature gives off radiation. It's 344 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: called black body radiation. Everything glows, even black holes, because 345 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: they have a temperature, and the temperature the black hole 346 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: is connected to its mass, and as its mask it's smaller, 347 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: it's temperature goes up. And there's some complicated arguments there 348 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: about entropying quantum mechanics that we shouldn't get into. But 349 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: smaller black holes have higher temperatures and so they radiate more, 350 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: and so it's a sort of a runaway process like 351 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: it radiates more or like surface area or like total 352 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: like it's hard to imagine that a you know, like 353 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: the supermassive black hole in the middle of the galaxy 354 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: would be radiating less than a little tiny empire state 355 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: building black hole. It's definitely more per mass, like per 356 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: unit mass of the black hole, but I think it's 357 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: also an absolute levels more. I mean, these little black 358 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: holes they radiate more, and then they lose mass because 359 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: they have radiated that mass away, and then they radiate 360 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: even more, so it becomes a runaway effect. And the 361 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: last few moments of the life of one of these 362 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: black holes they're extraordinarily bright. Wow. All right, So it 363 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: has something to do with, I don't know, some sort 364 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: of weird relationship inside of the black hole that did. 365 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: The less mass you have, the more it radiates. Yes, precisely. 366 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: And that's why this works because you don't have to 367 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: build a black hole the size of the Sun. You 368 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: can build one that's pretty small and it will be 369 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: pretty bright. So it's a great way to store that 370 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: energy and then have that energy be released over time. 371 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: All right, So I just compressed to empire state buildings. 372 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 1: I created a black hole, and I guess I did 373 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: it in space? Where my did I do it here 374 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: on Earth? Better? Do that in space, please, sir? Yes? Absolutely. Okay, 375 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: don't do this in your backyard. And I have this 376 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: in space, and what does it do? Does it get 377 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: attracted to the Earth when it also kind of like 378 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: act as if I had to empire state buildings out 379 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: in orbit. Yeah, it would, and so you could have 380 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: it in orbit around the Earth. Right, You can have 381 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: anything in orbit around the Earth, a black hole, anything else. 382 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: It has a strong gravity to it, but it's not 383 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: like actively sucking in the Earth. So it can be 384 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: in a stable orbit around the Earth. And then you 385 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: build your spaceship around the black hole. But I think 386 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: I have to keep feeding it, right, because it's radiating 387 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: and so it's shrinking at the same time. You don't 388 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: have to keep feeding it, though, that's an option. You 389 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: can just sort of build your spaceship around it and 390 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: then use it up and by the time you get 391 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: to your destination, it will have evaporated into nothing. Oh, 392 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: I see, so it takes years and years for it 393 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: to evaporate. That's right. A two empire state building black 394 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: hole will evaporate in about three or four years. All right. 395 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: I guess my question is like how do you hold it, 396 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: or like how do you move it? Or how do 397 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: you nudget because wouldn't anything that it touches gets sucked 398 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 1: into the black hole. Well, remember that black holes have 399 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: strong gravity, but they're not like actively sucking stuff. Right. 400 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: You can be in a stable configuration near a black 401 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: hole as long as the tidal forces are not too great. 402 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: So the way you take a black hole, which is 403 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: just shooting energy out in every direction and turn that 404 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: into a spaceship is actually the same way that we 405 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: talked about for turning a star into a spaceship. Is 406 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: that you capture half of the radiation, like all the 407 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: radiation on one side you capture in some sort of 408 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: parabolic mirror and focus at the other direction, so that 409 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: effectively it's only radiating in one direction. And if it's 410 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: only radiating in one direction, that's basically thrust. It's like 411 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: it's shooting particles at one side. And that's how an 412 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: engine works. It pushes something away, gives off mass and 413 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: energy in one direction, and so by conservation momentum it 414 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: will go the other direction. So that's the second critical 415 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: piece you need the black hole shooting off energy. Then 416 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: you need this reflector which turns the black hole into 417 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: an engine, like you put a mirror to one side 418 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: of it, and then some of them gets reflected into 419 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: the black hole. You put a mirror to one side 420 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: of the black hole, near the black hole, not in it, right, 421 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: You don't want your engine to get into the black hole. 422 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: If you put a parabolic reflector around the black hole, 423 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: then all of its radiation will get reflected to be 424 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: in parallel lines and all shooting out in one direction. Right, 425 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: But to the black hole, it's just radiating out in 426 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: all directions. So what would cause it to move? Well, 427 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: it's reading out in all directions. But now you have 428 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: this reflector, and the reflector is gravitationally bound to the 429 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: black hole, right, It's being held in place by the 430 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: black holes gravity. So you can think of them like 431 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: as a system. The black hole plus this reflector are 432 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: now like one gravitational system, and the two together are 433 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: only shooting out radiation in one direction, so they have 434 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: to move in the other direct Oh, I see, So 435 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: you kind of have to put the black hole behind 436 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: you almost right, Yes, the black holes in the back 437 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,719 Speaker 1: and the reflectors in the front, and then you end 438 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: up moving in the direction of the reflector like it's 439 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: pushing you. The black hole is pushing you away, but 440 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: you're also pulling the black hole with your own gravity. Yes, 441 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,239 Speaker 1: that's a good way to think about it exactly. So 442 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: you're right, the black hole all it knows is that 443 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: it's just shooting off radiation in every direction because you've 444 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: built it into this system with a reflector. The combined 445 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: system has to move, you know, in whatever direction you 446 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: were pointing in order to balance the momentum that's coming 447 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: out the back of the ship. Right, But isn't that 448 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: a really tricky balance? Like how do you know the 449 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: black hole is gonna follow you? Do? You have to 450 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: be as big as two empire state buildings too. You 451 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: have to build a pretty big ship. But you want 452 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: to build a pretty big ship anyway, because if you're 453 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: going for three and a half or four years, you 454 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: need like a lot of room for you know, canned 455 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: soup and people, and you have to build a lot 456 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: of shielding to protect yourself from radiation. So you want 457 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: to build a really big ship. But yes, it is 458 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: not easy engineering problems, so I do not envy the 459 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: engineers who have to work on that. But also, but 460 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: it's isn't it a little bit dangerous? Like how far 461 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,719 Speaker 1: away would you have to build this reflector, and like 462 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: if something knocks the ship but in it potentially knock 463 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: get into the black hole and then with destroyership. Yeah, 464 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily a stable configuration, you're right, And if 465 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: something gets too close to the black hole, then the 466 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: whole thing could just get sucked in. Right, So yeah, 467 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: there are definitely problems to solve. But you know, my 468 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: department is is this theoretically possible? And then you know, 469 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: I put my stamp on it, and then we send 470 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: it off to you know, safety and configuration and engineering 471 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: to make it actually work. But so there's definitely some 472 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: challenges that you just just said, a worry somewhere which is unstable, 473 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: Like is this a unstable configuration? What did you mean, 474 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: my dad? Like, I can put the black hole behind me, 475 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: but it's very precarious. Yes, some things in equilibrium are 476 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: stable so that if you perturb them, they'll naturally go 477 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: back to the original configuration, right, But some things are unstable, 478 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,479 Speaker 1: and in this case, if the mirror gets too close 479 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: to the black hole, then it will eventually fall into 480 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: the event horizon the black hole or would be very 481 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: difficult to take too much energy to move it away. So, right, 482 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: it's pretty tricky. It's like, if you're in orbit around 483 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: the Earth and something knocks you out of orbit, then 484 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: you're not going to fall back into orbit. You're going 485 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 1: to fall into Earth, right, And the same problem happens here. 486 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: So basically you're saying on this trip, nobody can move 487 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: on the ship. It's like, alright, three and a half years, 488 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: nobody move, or else we're going to fall into this 489 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: black hole that we made and are bringing with us. Yeah, yeah, 490 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, maybe don't have assault the party right next 491 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: to the black hole. Yeah, no aerobics classes on this cruise, 492 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: no jumping up and down. It might be a boring trip, 493 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: but hey, it means it's a shorter trip because a 494 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: black hole could get you up to a significant fraction 495 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: of the speed of light. Really, if you build this 496 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: ship and you can use the black hole that we 497 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: talked about, like two masses of the Empire state building, 498 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: it can give off enough radiation to accelerate a large 499 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: ship to ten of the speed of light in just 500 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 1: twenty days. Wow, and is that a lot ten percent? 501 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: What is that per second? It's a lot of meters 502 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: per second and at that speed you could get to 503 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: the nearby star in like forty years instead of five 504 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: years or five thousand years. And you also could do 505 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: it without depleting the energy resources of the entire planet. 506 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: All Right, well, I still think it's a crazy idea, Daniel. 507 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: But let's get into whether it could actually work and 508 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: if we could actually build one. But first let's take 509 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: another quick break. All right, Daniel, you found something useful 510 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: to do with black holes, and that is to power 511 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: your starship to a nearby star or galaxy. And it theoretically, 512 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: it sounds like it could work, but it feels kind 513 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: of practically dangerous, like you know, you can put it 514 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: in the bag and it's pushing you, but if something happens, 515 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: it could also destroy. And that's a pretty good summary. 516 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not asking you to invest or 517 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: to buy a ticket on the black hole starship. I'm 518 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: just asking you to examine with me whether or not 519 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: this is theoretically possible. Because things that seemed I thought 520 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: you were pro prol black hole, which is why we're 521 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: talking about this. But I totally recognize that a lot 522 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: of problems to solve. But you know, today's impossible problem 523 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: is tomorrow's app Written by Middle schoolers. So let's leave 524 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: these open problems out there and maybe one of our 525 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: listeners will be inspired and think of a solution. Right, Okay, 526 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: so you're saying it can maybe accelerate a large ship 527 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: up to ten percent of the speed of light in 528 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: twenty days, which means we would get to the nearest 529 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: star you said in forty years. Yeah, the nearest stars 530 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: are like four light years away, and so if you 531 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: go at ten percent of the speed of light, you 532 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: could get there in forty years, which means you could 533 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: step on this ship and you actually step off of it. 534 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: You could visit those stars and not just your kids 535 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: or your grandkids, your great great grandkids who are mad 536 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: at you for having relegated them to being born in space, 537 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: but you could actually get there yourself. But you said 538 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: the black hole itself would only last three and a 539 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: half years. Yes, the black hole itself would last three 540 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: and a half years, but it only needs to last 541 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: long enough to accelerate you, and you know, then you're 542 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: up to the right speed. You know, there are other 543 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: questions about like deceleration and how do you stop. Yes, well, 544 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: I guess maybe this is one one thing I'm curious 545 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: about is can you feed the black hole? Like, can 546 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: you supply with more energy as you're going? No, you 547 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: certainly can. Two solutions they're one is start with a 548 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: bigger black hole and then halfway through the trip, flip 549 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: the reflector around if you think that's a safe procedure, 550 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: so that now the black hole is decelerating you, so 551 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: that by the time you get to your destination you're 552 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: at a reasonable speed. You don't fly through the system 553 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: at a zillion miles an hour. And the other thing 554 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: you can do is, as you say you can feed 555 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: the black hole, you can like gather interstellar gas and 556 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: micro meteorites and all that stuff and just sort of 557 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: like directed into the black hole. Because the cool thing 558 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: is everything is fuel for a black hole, right, even 559 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: bad punts, even bananas. Banana now that would just slip 560 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: on by. But I mean, is that the work math workout? 561 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: Like can I bring another empire state building with me? 562 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: Or does that take away them from the excelaration. The 563 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: way that you build the synthetic black hole that you 564 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: need to power this drive is not by bringing all 565 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: that mass, because we don't know how to take that 566 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: mass and compact it into a black hole size object. 567 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: That's not something we know how to do. Instead, the 568 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: best ideas for how to build a synthetic black hole 569 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: of the right size involved just essentially dumping energy into 570 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: a point in space using massive lasers. All right, now 571 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: we're getting more exciting here. So step us through how 572 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: would we actually make a black hole? Like, can we 573 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: make a black hole? As I guess you make black 574 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: holes at a large hadrant collider, but you don't keep 575 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: them around. Well, we don't know if we've made black 576 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: holes at the large hadron collider. We're trying to. We're 577 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: hoping to see one. We've never spotted one before. But 578 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: the idea is that to make a black hole, you 579 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: don't just need a huge amount of mass. What you 580 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: really need is high energy density. Any kind of energy 581 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: will curve space. Einstein's general relativity told us that matter 582 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: curve space, but also anything with energy in it. And 583 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: so what you need to do is just pour a 584 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: whole huge pile of energy into a small part of space. 585 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: And you can do that by focusing a bunch of 586 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: lasers on the same place. Oh, I see, you can 587 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: make a black hole, but just pure energy, just pure energy. Yeah, 588 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: And so you build a huge laser, a lot of 589 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: huge laser and you focus them on the same place, 590 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: and in principle, you pour enough energy into that dot, 591 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: it will turn into a black hole. It will capture 592 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: all that energy story gravitationally and then gradually release it, 593 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: which is what you need. Wait, what do he means? 594 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: So you can make a black hole just by pointing 595 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: lasers together. Yes, nobody's ever done it. We haven't ever 596 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: seen this, but the math tells us. The theory tells us. 597 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: General relativity says that you get enough energy density in 598 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: one spot, it will turn into a black and that 599 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: includes laser light. And lasers are actually great because photons 600 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: have no problem being close to each other. Like the 601 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: reason you can't take the Empire State building and turn 602 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: into a black hole is that that matter resists being 603 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: squeezed down right, there are chemical bonds there. But photons, 604 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: they are the kind of particle we call bosons that 605 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: are very happy to be right on top of each 606 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: other and all doing the same thing. And there's no 607 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: photon photon repulsion, and so you can pile as many 608 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: photons as you want. They will not resist. Then wouldn't 609 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: it take a lot of energy to power your lasers, 610 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: like could you wouldn't that take me all the energy 611 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: on Earth just to make a mini black hole. It 612 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: would take a lot of energy to make this black hole, 613 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: but it's much more energy efficient than for example, antimatter creation. 614 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: Ant a matter is something we can make and it's 615 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: a good way to convert mass into energy, but making 616 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: antimatter is very, very inefficient, whereas making a black hole 617 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: is much more efficient because all the energy goes into 618 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: the black hole. So yes, it's a huge energy consumption. 619 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: Anytime you want to accelerate something up to the speed 620 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 1: of light that's very massive, it's going to take a 621 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: lot of energy. But it's much more efficient to turn 622 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: lasers into a black hole than to build antimatter, which 623 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: is very difficult to do. And so the idea is 624 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: that then you just point lasers like at a point 625 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: or at each other, or just the laser itself would 626 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: create the black hole. And you need a bunch of 627 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: lasers altogether focused on a point. And people have done 628 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: some calculations to think like well, how much would you need, 629 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: how much energy would you need? And it's about like 630 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: point one second of all the energy coming out of 631 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: the sun, like the sun you know, really it's a 632 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: lot of energy. And you know, if you get like 633 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: a tenth of a second of all the solar energy, 634 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: that's about as much as you need to build this 635 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: synthetic black hole we were talking about. You can't capture 636 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: the whole Sun. But you know, people did other calculations. 637 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: If you build like a lot of solar panels, you know, 638 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: something like a few hundred kilometer sized solar panels in 639 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: circular orbit around the Sun, then it takes about a 640 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: year to get enough energy to power these lasers to 641 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: build the synthetic black hole. Oh I see, so you 642 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: would have to store all that energy for a year 643 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: and then release it at once. Yes, exactly, so big 644 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: batteries from Tesla Ellen, get on that. No, don't get 645 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: on that doing in space Wait, wait until you have 646 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: a space station. Yeah. And there's you know, lots of 647 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: other practical problems with building a black hole starship that 648 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: we sort of just you know, waved our hands over all. Right, Yes, 649 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: what are those problems? Well, number one is that black 650 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: holes don't just shoot off photons that can be easily 651 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: reflected by like a nice mirror. And we talked about 652 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: how you have to redirect the radiation of half of 653 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: the black all the other direction. If you want to 654 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: move anywhere, that works great if the black hole is 655 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: giving off photons, because we know how to bounce those 656 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: off a mirror. But black holes are very democratic. The 657 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: reason Hawking radiation exists is that you have random particles 658 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: coming out of the vacuum. So those could be photons, 659 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: they could be top corks, they could be Higgs bosons, 660 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: they could be electrons. Oh, they're spewing out all kinds 661 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: of stuff, all kinds of stuff. Yeah, and some of 662 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: those things are hard or impossible to reflect. Oh, so 663 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: you don't even know if you could reflect all of 664 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: that energy. You're pretty sure you can't reflect all of it. 665 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: And so there's some ideas that, like you could reflect 666 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: part of it, and the rest of it you could 667 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: try to absorb and then capture in terms of heat 668 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: and use that somehow, either funnel it back into the 669 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: black hole or use it to power you know, an 670 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: ion beam or something like that. But it gets pretty 671 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: tricky because this is very intense radiation and anything you 672 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: build nearby that can't reflect the radiation is going to 673 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: absorb it and get really hot and probably melt. Can 674 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: it spew out antimatter? It will. It will absolutely spew 675 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: out equal amounts of matter and antimatter, so that it 676 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: might even destroy your ship just from what it it's radiating. Yeah, 677 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: that is a concern. Actually a small concern is that 678 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: it's spewing out antimatter, which would and I lead your space. Yeah. 679 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,760 Speaker 1: I don't think this idea is you know, consumer ready yet, 680 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: but the bones of it are there, you know. Oh man, Yeah, 681 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 1: the black holes antimatter. That's right. Because the Hawking radiation 682 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: is random, it creates pairs of particles and antiparticles, and 683 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: sometimes the particles fall into the black hole, and sometimes 684 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: the antiparticles do. That's one of the really cool things 685 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: about black holes is that they radiate all the particles, 686 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 1: and so it's actually kind of a cool way to ask, like, well, 687 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: what particles are there? We'll just make a black hole 688 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: and have it radiate everything that there is. It's sort 689 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: of like the world's best particle collider. But I guess 690 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: if it's being out antimatter, then I mean, if some 691 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: of that touches you, then you're you're dead. Yes, if 692 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: some of that touches you, then you know, I recommend 693 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: you go immediately to the met deck or whatever it 694 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: is on this ship, which just when did it explode 695 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: on you or something? Well, if an individual particle eventimatter 696 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: hits you, it's not a big deal. You know, like 697 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: bananas emit anti matter. They're emitting positrons all the time, 698 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: but they don't hurt you, just a very small amount 699 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: of energy. But they could cause cancer. But we're talking 700 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: about a black hole emitting a lot of radiation. A 701 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: significant fraction of that would be radiation that you can't 702 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: easily absorb and reflect like photons, and some of it 703 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: would be antimatter. So yeah, there are big technical issues 704 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: they're remaining how to handle all this radiation. It's crazy. 705 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,800 Speaker 1: A black hole is too bright maybe to be a 706 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: starship drive? Could you just use a smaller one, Like 707 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: with a smaller one help a smaller one would help perhaps, 708 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: but then it might not have enough power. So this 709 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: sort of a sweet spot there. You need to be 710 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: big enough to provide power to drive your ship and 711 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 1: to last long enough, because the smaller black hole is 712 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: the shorterest lifespan. Just so, there is actually like a 713 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: literature on this idea, like there are papers out there Yeah, 714 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: I've read some papers in the last few days about 715 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: making black hole starships and whether it's reasonable. And in 716 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 1: addition to all the practical questions that you asked and 717 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: all the reasonable concerns you how about whether this thing 718 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: would survive, there are also fundamental physics questions about whether 719 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 1: this would work. Because you know, we're talking about Hawking 720 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 1: radiation that nobody's frankly ever seen in real life, and 721 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: we're relying on a sort of semi classical understanding of 722 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: black holes because we don't have a good theory for 723 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: what's going on inside black holes of quantum gravity. We 724 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: can't really explain what's going on inside black holes, and 725 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: we can't really explain whether they're radiating, and we've never 726 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: validated Hawking's predictions about how much they're radiating. So a 727 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 1: lot of whether or not this is possible depends on 728 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,839 Speaker 1: a quantum understanding of gravity that we just don't have yet. Wow, 729 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: all right, well, it sounds like a good idea to you. 730 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: Something we don't understand and may potentially kill is to 731 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: power a starship. We'll just ask for volunteers and we'll 732 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: have a really long waiver. I'm sure a lot of 733 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: people on the internet would sign up. I would think 734 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: about it for a moment. I'd be like, Wow, I 735 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: get to see an alien world and they get to 736 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,280 Speaker 1: ride in a spaceship with a black hole. That sounds 737 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: pretty cool. You would sign up, you who never want 738 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 1: to leave your house. Well, I said, I would think 739 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,959 Speaker 1: about it, and I would entertain it for a moment. 740 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't actually sign up, but you know, I 741 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: might post it on Twitter and encourage you might think 742 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: about it for point one second. Solar energy All right, Well, 743 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: it sounds like a pretty cool idea, and it's kind 744 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: of interesting, I guess to think about, you know, using 745 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: something like a black hole, which I think in popular 746 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: culture just has you know, death and destruction associated with it, 747 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: to use it for actually something useful. Yeah, and it 748 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: shows you how we should be creative. We should think 749 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,279 Speaker 1: this thing which seems crazy and dangerous, maybe we can 750 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: put it into work, although maybe not too creative, or like, 751 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: let's just double check these calculations before we start selling tickets. 752 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: Maybe do it a little bit ways out into the 753 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: solar system when you try it out. Yeah, and we'll 754 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: try it with hamsters first, or those monkeys you have 755 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,760 Speaker 1: in your lab no comment. Well, we hope you enjoyed 756 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: that and that it made you think a little bit 757 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 1: about black holes and how maybe they could somehow get 758 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: us out to see other black holes. And even if 759 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: this isn't the idea which cracks open this decades long 760 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: problem of how to get us to alien stars, I 761 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: have confidence that humans will one day figure this out. 762 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 1: We'll come up with a crazy idea that even Jorney 763 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: thinks sounds safe, and it'll get us to those star systems, 764 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 1: and we will learn the answers to these crazy questions 765 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: we've been asking basically since we've been asking questions. Thanks 766 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 1: for joining us, see you next time. Thanks for listening, 767 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge explained. The universe is 768 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,839 Speaker 1: a pretty auction of I heart Radio. Or more podcast 769 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 770 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,320 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.