Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex Bar and Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it?
Speaker 1: Joined as always buy our bart.
Speaker 2: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bar throw the ball
Speaker 2: against the Saints on third and short. Yes, I can't
Speaker 2: tell if you're making fun of me. Your extual's trying
Speaker 2: to follow. I have it on a table here. Do
Speaker 2: you want to see it?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: I just want to keep going. When when is when
Speaker 1: we need a whiteboard?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: When teams throw the ball against the Saints on third
Speaker 2: and short, yes, they are converting a first down thirty
Speaker 2: three percent of the time, it's not good. When they
Speaker 2: run the ball against the Saints on third and short
Speaker 2: sixty two.
Speaker 1: Of the time is good. It's funny because like I
Speaker 1: not that you don't you know. I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: say like you don't know any stats, but like usually
Speaker 1: it's me that's like, you know, bringing the spreadsheet to
Speaker 1: the podcast. Well, that's a very tangible stat. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: We talked about this earlier. I got I got it
Speaker 1: as people could imagine. We got a bunch of stuff
Speaker 1: on our mind. But we were talking earlier about the
Speaker 1: Herald story that came today Alex with Andrew Callahan and
Speaker 1: Doug Kyde. You know a lot of information there, some
Speaker 1: of it that I think we could have probably gleaned
Speaker 1: on our own, right, Like the Patriots have receivers that
Speaker 1: don't get open, and an offensive line that doesn't block
Speaker 1: anybody in a quarterback that's broken, Like I think we
Speaker 1: all like we all knew that, right. But one of
Speaker 1: the pieces of information we don't have to get into it,
Speaker 1: but I knew it would would grind your gears was
Speaker 1: they mentioned that the Patriots are are not at the forefront.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the way to phrase this, And
Speaker 1: they said they didn't use analytics. So okay, they said
Speaker 1: they didn't use analytics.
Speaker 2: First off, by the way that rant I had last week, Yeah,
Speaker 2: five third and shorts last week for the Patriots. They
Speaker 2: threw it four times and they ran that for cocta
Speaker 2: fake tush push on the other one. So so much
Speaker 2: for the numbers there on that.
Speaker 1: That could have been a touchdown if Andre gets the ball. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of things could have been. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying like in terms of like it was, they.
Speaker 2: Definitely set it up well, they only ran like thirty
Speaker 2: Tousch pushes to set it up, which is start the
Speaker 2: season push.
Speaker 1: But I here's the thing.
Speaker 2: I don't think the and by the way they ran
Speaker 2: it when they were down thirty four nothing so great
Speaker 2: time to break that out. I don't think the NFL
Speaker 2: likes the term toush push, So that's why I'm so
Speaker 2: committed to continue using it. Okay on the Herald story,
Speaker 2: so you know where I'm at with Like when I
Speaker 2: say analytics, the math, I'm talking about win probability models,
Speaker 2: win probability EPA, CPO, anything that has expected in it
Speaker 2: or theoretical or hypothetical they brought up in that article
Speaker 2: like next gen stats, which is player right player, a
Speaker 2: guy running twenty miles an hour, He's running twenty miles
Speaker 2: an hour. It's very tangrble. I have no problem with
Speaker 2: that stuff should be used. That stuff's great. It's when
Speaker 2: you get into the hypothetical, theoretical expected that you just
Speaker 2: totally lose me and I think it's nonsense. But the
Speaker 2: next gen stat stuff they absolutely should be using. Every
Speaker 2: team should be using it. Yeah, I'm not saying it
Speaker 2: should be the be all, end all, but it's I mean.
Speaker 1: It's informations a tool. It's a tool. It's a tool
Speaker 1: away putting it. So that wasn't at the top of
Speaker 1: my mind. I have a couple of things that are
Speaker 1: at the top of my mind. I didn't really know.
Speaker 1: Like usually I we you know, I try to set
Speaker 1: the table, have something like an opening take yeah back
Speaker 1: when you thought the show was going to start having
Speaker 1: ordered No, no, no, no, it does, it does. I
Speaker 1: doesn't have to. It's really okay. No, it has order.
Speaker 1: It has order. My OCD makes it.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 1: Uh, here's the thing. I I don't know where to
Speaker 1: go with this because if you and I'm telling saying
Speaker 1: you as in you, the people, you, the listeners. If
Speaker 1: you guys want to call into the show today and
Speaker 1: ask us big picture questions, who's the next head coach,
Speaker 1: who's the next GM, who's the next quarterback? I understand.
Speaker 1: I'm fine with that. We'll answer those questions. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about those things. If you want to listen to how
Speaker 1: do they fix this this season, I'm cool with that too.
Speaker 1: We can talk about that. Also, how do they be
Speaker 1: you know, more competitive this year? If you want them
Speaker 1: to take for the number one overall pick. Fine, If
Speaker 1: you want them to try to piece this thing together
Speaker 1: to be better on the field this season and this
Speaker 1: week against the Raiders. Also, fine, we're gonna give you both.
Speaker 1: We're gonna give you both. But here's here's my my
Speaker 1: big opening thing. And this is recent now, and uh,
Speaker 1: this kind of puts a little bit more directions in
Speaker 1: my mind because you know, those two things are so
Speaker 1: polar opposite. Like, let's talk about next year and in
Speaker 1: the future, let's talk about this week against the Raiders.
Speaker 1: It couldn't be more on either side of the of
Speaker 1: the thing. Jerry Judy. Jerry Judy is apparently, according to
Speaker 1: I think multiple reports, safe to say at this point,
Speaker 1: available and likely to be moved before the NFL trade deadline. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so on some levels, I've gotten this this pushback on
Speaker 1: on on the X machine already. Why would you give
Speaker 1: up draft capital to help this team? Why would you
Speaker 1: let Bill Belichick make any more trades? Why would you
Speaker 1: make a trade that would make this team better and
Speaker 1: maybe put you in a spot where instead of the
Speaker 1: second overall picking the draft, you're picking fifteenth again, And like,
Speaker 1: what's the point in that, right? And my whole thing
Speaker 1: with all of that is that Jerry Judy is somebody
Speaker 1: that we've both been clamoring for because of his skill set.
Speaker 1: He's a good player, good player, good route runner, gets
Speaker 1: open against man coverage, which this team can't do and
Speaker 1: is a dead last in the league right now in
Speaker 1: production against man coverage. This is one of the best
Speaker 1: man coverage beaters in the league.
Speaker 2: Jerry Judy, he is his route running Is that we
Speaker 2: talk about a carrying trade, right, Yeah, what makes his
Speaker 2: ability to separate on a route on his own is
Speaker 2: his carrying trade. He is top fifteen in the league
Speaker 2: in that regard.
Speaker 1: A technician, Yeah, he's a route running technician. He's got
Speaker 1: that PhD and route running and he's pretty good with
Speaker 1: the ball in his hands too after the catch. So
Speaker 1: my whole thing with Jerry Judy is in all likelihood
Speaker 1: acquiring Jerry Judy. Well, let me first say this. You're
Speaker 1: not trading your first round pick for Jerry Judy. You're
Speaker 1: not trading for first round pick for anybody else. You're
Speaker 1: not trading No one's trading a first round pick for
Speaker 1: Jerry Judy. You don't no, like the Chiefs. No, I
Speaker 1: could see the Chiefs doing it. I don't they if
Speaker 1: they if they had a first round pick on the
Speaker 1: table for Jerry Judy, he wouldn't be a Bronco anymore.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, you get a few weeks, all right, yeah,
Speaker 1: fair enough. No one's trading a first round pick for
Speaker 1: Jerry Judy, so you're talking at most a second round pick,
Speaker 1: a Day two pick. So that with that out of
Speaker 1: the way, if you're the idea of to me of
Speaker 1: trading for Jerry Judy is a long term play, it's
Speaker 1: long term. He's twenty four years old. He's twenty four,
Speaker 1: so you give him a contract extension, you trade a
Speaker 1: mid round pick for him, third round pick, second round pick,
Speaker 1: whatever it takes. And whether it's Mac Jones throwing him
Speaker 1: the football in twenty twenty four or it's Michael Pennocks
Speaker 1: throwing him the football in twenty twenty four, what difference
Speaker 1: does it make? What difference does it make? Either way?
Speaker 1: Jerry Judy is making the quarterback and the offense better, period,
Speaker 1: full stop. He's making them better. That's all that matters.
Speaker 1: Whether it's Drake May, Michael Pennix, Mac Jones, Kyler Murray,
Speaker 1: whoever's throwing him the ball next year, it makes the
Speaker 1: team better. I would also mention that this drives me
Speaker 1: up a wall. People's attachment to non first round picks
Speaker 1: drives me up a wall, Alex, because it's we do
Speaker 1: this all this time on the show, because it's a
Speaker 1: good bit. Yeah, it's the family Guy Mystery box. Yep.
Speaker 1: You can have Jerry Judy or you could draft a
Speaker 1: receiver in the third round and he might be as
Speaker 1: good as Jerry Judy. Right, So, I like, what is
Speaker 1: the infatuation with the draft picks. I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: the Rams do it right and the Rams say f
Speaker 1: the picks and they know there's a happy medium. There's
Speaker 1: a happy medium, and no one's sitting here today saying
Speaker 1: at the page. I would actually say that they shouldn't
Speaker 1: be trading their first or second round pick for Jerry
Speaker 1: j So that's I wouldn't trade the second. Now maybe
Speaker 1: if it's.
Speaker 2: Jerry Judy and a third for like a second, Yeah
Speaker 2: you know you're getting You're not.
Speaker 1: They should not lose any top one hundred picks. I
Speaker 1: would trade a third for Jerry Judy. Might trade a third.
Speaker 1: But so here's the thing.
Speaker 2: If we're going to really blow this up and talk
Speaker 2: about this down the road, like that, Yeah, the Patriots
Speaker 2: are not getting the first overall pick. That's just not
Speaker 2: gonna happen. I know a lot of people think it is.
Speaker 1: It's not.
Speaker 2: The Bears hold the trump card right now because they
Speaker 2: have their picky and the Panthers pick. So a lot
Speaker 2: of people are like, oh, they need a tank so
Speaker 2: they can get Caleb or whatever. It's not all about
Speaker 2: like tanking in the NFL. You don't need the second
Speaker 2: overall pick to get the second best player in the draft.
Speaker 2: And what I mean by that, or you don't need
Speaker 2: the second worst record, sorry, to get the second best
Speaker 2: player in the draft. It's as much about how you
Speaker 2: position yourself.
Speaker 1: To move up the board.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's why I like, I'm not as hesitant
Speaker 2: to part ways with the third round pick as like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's a third round pick, you're turning into a great player.
Speaker 2: But like, are you gonna if if they want to
Speaker 2: move into the top five take a quarterback and they're
Speaker 2: sitting there at like seven, is that the pick you're
Speaker 2: gonna need and now you don't have it?
Speaker 1: But that also goes to another point. You can trade
Speaker 1: from future years.
Speaker 2: You can trade from future years. But I would add
Speaker 2: as well so one, I would try to trade future
Speaker 2: your picks for Jerry Tuty. The other thing is this
Speaker 2: is where you talk about what are they gonna do
Speaker 2: with some of the guys on the team.
Speaker 1: Now that aren't expiring contracts. Yeah, and if you.
Speaker 2: Somebody did this a couple of years ago, like they
Speaker 2: traded for a guy that was on a long term deal,
Speaker 2: like I mean long term but with Judy multi year deal,
Speaker 2: and then they traded away another player on expiring contract
Speaker 2: and got like the equivalent of that pick back. So
Speaker 2: they essentially it wasn't that they didn't get a better
Speaker 2: player at a certain stances were a little different, but
Speaker 2: like they extended the window. So if you were to
Speaker 2: trade like a third for Jerry Judy and then trade
Speaker 2: like one of the expiring players Hunter Henry Kendrick born
Speaker 2: Josh Uche and maybe like a fifth for a third,
Speaker 2: well now you you still have the same number of
Speaker 2: third round picks you always had, Like that would be
Speaker 2: can I yeah, I hear you, Yeah, I just I
Speaker 2: the real value in those picks to me, and this
Speaker 2: is a unique situation is to trade up if they
Speaker 2: need a quarterback. Because you're not talking about trading up
Speaker 2: like like we usually do with them from like twenty
Speaker 2: to fifteen. We're talking about going from like seven to
Speaker 2: two or three, and that's where you do want to
Speaker 2: be able to position yourself a certain way, all right, So.
Speaker 1: We're both I think in lockstep that we would offer
Speaker 1: a third round pick for Jerry Judy, and that's the most.
Speaker 1: That's the highest we'd go. I might do like a
Speaker 1: second for Jerry Judy in a third okay something. I
Speaker 1: don't know if the Broncos would do that. Okay, fair enough,
Speaker 1: So let's just let's just, you know, call it a
Speaker 1: third round pick. Sure, here's the Patriots last five third
Speaker 1: round picks. Oh you came ready? Are you ready for this?
Speaker 1: I just pulled this up. Wait can I hang on?
Speaker 1: Hang on?
Speaker 2: Marte Maphu, yeah, uh, Marcus Jones yep. All right, So
Speaker 2: then I gotta go back to mac Jones draft class.
Speaker 2: That would be Ronnie Perkins yep.
Speaker 1: Uh. Twenty twenty. They had two that year, right three?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 2: Uch, noj was second, Anthony Jennings yep. Oh, and the
Speaker 2: two tight ends yep. And keenan Assi OSSI.
Speaker 1: And now we're am I eighteen nineteen nineteen, yeah, nineteen.
Speaker 1: So that's Nikhil Harry draft.
Speaker 2: That would was chase one of its third I think
Speaker 2: it's chased one of its right, third round, right when
Speaker 2: Damien Harris was the fourth round.
Speaker 1: No third round. Oh, they're both third round picks and
Speaker 1: Yadney could just okay. So to summarize, Marty Mapuh, Marcus Jones,
Speaker 1: Ronnie Perkins, Anthony Jennings, Devin Asiassi, Dalton Keene, Chase Winovich,
Speaker 1: Damien Harris, Yadney, kajuiced woof, And you guys are worried
Speaker 1: about giving up a third round pick for that collection.
Speaker 2: Am I allowed to be worried about it in losing
Speaker 2: an asset to move up in the first round?
Speaker 1: No, you're not. Why. I'll tell you why two reasons. One,
Speaker 1: there's a million different ways to split that at him, right,
Speaker 1: Like you can trade from future years. You can trade
Speaker 1: two fourths instead of a third, Like, there's a million
Speaker 1: different ways to cut up that pie. Two, who's the
Speaker 1: GM of the team, Because if it's the same guy
Speaker 1: that's sitting in the chair right now, you and I
Speaker 1: both know well and good that he ain't trading up
Speaker 1: in the first round. Well, he's not taking a quarterback either,
Speaker 1: But he's not trading up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so no, he's gonna hold onto the third because
Speaker 2: that's where they're going to take the quarterback.
Speaker 1: That's what they're going Like. The bottom line is is
Speaker 1: that Jerry Judy makes your team better now, he makes
Speaker 1: your he makes your team better in the future, and
Speaker 1: stop obsessing over the draft picks. Stop. Okay, moving on
Speaker 1: from that, and you can.
Speaker 2: Call it one caveat and all that now yes, no, yes,
Speaker 2: no caveat. Yes, no, you have to have to have
Speaker 2: to sign him long term. I know you can't let
Speaker 2: him walk after twenty twenty four, but that's that defeats
Speaker 2: the entire purpose.
Speaker 1: Yes, but that that's where I would I would like
Speaker 1: to think that Macro, assuming that Macro is still going
Speaker 1: to be here in twenty twenty four, maybe he can
Speaker 1: sit there and say to Bill, like, come on money.
Speaker 2: If they make that trade and then let him walk,
Speaker 2: that's a total mis mismanagement of assets.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree. Okay, Okay, let me put that. Let's
Speaker 1: let's that's the Jerry Judy take from me and from Alex.
Speaker 1: If you want to call in and disagree, you want
Speaker 1: email in and disagree or agree, we can still talk
Speaker 1: about Jerry Judy for the rest of the show. But
Speaker 1: I have I have four things, Alex, four things that
Speaker 1: I would do to fix the offense right now, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't include Jerry Judy. Right, We're not talking about external,
Speaker 1: internal moves. So I'm gonna read them off one by
Speaker 1: one and then you can tell me your opinion. Right,
Speaker 1: Number one starts up front, right, offensive line, start up front.
Speaker 1: Offensive line has to get better. So when the head
Speaker 1: coach goes on Sunday and Monday and Wednesday, kind of
Speaker 1: his whole mantra and the mantra around the team right
Speaker 1: now in the building is start all over, right, start
Speaker 1: all over? Like just forget about the last serio, no idea,
Speaker 1: who that is? I knew what you were doing. I
Speaker 1: still let it get to me. Start all over right,
Speaker 1: So in the interest is starting off like, what does
Speaker 1: that mean to you? Start all over? I got this
Speaker 1: question a lot, like what's that mean to you? Start
Speaker 1: all over? To me, what that means is, let's go
Speaker 1: back to the spring and training camp day one. What
Speaker 1: was our team, what was our installation? What were the
Speaker 1: plays that we were running? And that's what we're gonna do, right,
Speaker 1: And in that Vein. When it comes to the offensive line,
Speaker 1: starting all over to me is going back to march.
Speaker 1: What you thought you had along the offensive line. These
Speaker 1: were our penciled in five starters along the offensive line.
Speaker 1: So therefore, I think, and I would even go as
Speaker 1: far to say that it's ridiculous if this isn't the case.
Speaker 1: From left to right, Trent Brown assuming healthy, Cole Strange,
Speaker 1: David Andrews, Mike on Winne. Who I think is gonna play?
Speaker 1: Riley Reef is.
Speaker 2: Going.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: He's been limited's let me played last week kind of
Speaker 2: standing off to the side during stretching.
Speaker 1: You'll be all right.
Speaker 2: He played a little. I think he's healthy enough to play.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's healthy enough to play a hundred percent.
Speaker 2: I think you have to rotate him.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't want to get too caught up again.
Speaker 1: Why not I would. I would still put Riley Reef
Speaker 1: at guard Mike and win it tackle. But sure, it's
Speaker 1: not gonna happen it. See that. That's why I didn't
Speaker 1: like go that way, because it's not the right. It's
Speaker 1: not gonna happen. But I still feel like we have
Speaker 1: to say it, all right. I think that if you're
Speaker 1: if you're truly starting all over. But and that's starting
Speaker 1: all over.
Speaker 2: We talk about the best five that you know, maybe
Speaker 2: something changes it left guard, but more or less, that's
Speaker 2: your best five.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's your best five. And I think one of
Speaker 1: the few bright spots from that debacle against the Saints
Speaker 1: was that I thought Riley Reef played okay. I thought
Speaker 1: Riley Reef looked solid. I thought even looked like that's
Speaker 1: the word like twitchy almost, you know, like he was
Speaker 1: moving well, and he was sudden with his movements and
Speaker 1: he was able to redirect and stay in front of guys.
Speaker 1: Had a really really good one on one rep against
Speaker 1: Brian Breeze, who's the Saints' first round pick, Breezy whatever,
Speaker 1: first round pick, and uh, you know, Breezy tried to
Speaker 1: spin move him, shut it down. I thought he was
Speaker 1: really good in that game against New Orleans. And he's
Speaker 1: got to be in your starting lineup. If if they
Speaker 1: don't think he can play tackle anymore, because the the
Speaker 1: stuff we saw in the summer, the foot speed, that
Speaker 1: kind of thing, then maybe he's left guard right, but
Speaker 1: he's gotta he's got to play. He's got to be
Speaker 1: in the starting five. That's where I would if you're
Speaker 1: gonna start all over, like that's starting all over to me,
Speaker 1: starting all over and and and rolling with like the
Speaker 1: young guys like Antonio Maffi and City. So how's that's
Speaker 1: that's not starting all over? That's that's not.
Speaker 2: I did think it was interesting to go back to
Speaker 2: that Harald piece. They it doesn't say from a source,
Speaker 2: but it sounds in form like it's almost like they're
Speaker 2: sitting there reporting it with that really reporting that Cole
Speaker 2: Strange is facing a challenge for his job from Mafi.
Speaker 1: So I, Mafi's so tough, and we're gonna get to
Speaker 1: like three up, three down here in a little bit.
Speaker 2: Mafi's tough because he was he was Okay, it's currently
Speaker 2: in a battle for his starting cold. Strange currently in
Speaker 2: a battle for a starting drob with fifth round rookie
Speaker 2: Antonio Maffy.
Speaker 1: I mean that's fair, but Mafi was He was good
Speaker 1: against Dallas, or I shouldn't say good. He held his
Speaker 1: He treaded water against Dallas, right like I thought that
Speaker 1: he wasn't bad the film, Yeah, the film was some progress.
Speaker 1: He was terrible against New Orleans. He just he doesn't have.
Speaker 1: I did the feel and the instincts. Yet I think
Speaker 1: because of the lack of playing time at the position
Speaker 1: going back to college, which Belichick talked about last week
Speaker 1: in his press conference when he was giving him credit
Speaker 1: for learning. But line movement stuns, twists, blitzes, things like that,
Speaker 1: like he doesn't know how to pick him up yet,
Speaker 1: he just doesn't. He doesn't know. So I still think
Speaker 1: he's not ready. All right. So that's number one, though,
Speaker 1: Start all over on the offensive line. Put the five
Speaker 1: guys out there that not only I think are the
Speaker 1: best five that you have on paper, but is the
Speaker 1: original penciled in. This is what we were going to
Speaker 1: go into the season with offensive line before all the
Speaker 1: injuries and all the other stuff happened. All right, Number two,
Speaker 1: and I think that this is really important moving forward.
Speaker 1: Let the kids play at wide receiver. I play them
Speaker 1: all and when, and I include Taekwon with the kids,
Speaker 1: right Taekwon. I know, Pop Douglas probably not going to
Speaker 1: play in this game on Sunday, but this is just
Speaker 1: in general, Taekwon Douglas. Booty should be active. Booty should
Speaker 1: be active. He should play over Juju. If you're not
Speaker 1: playing Booty over Juju. It's because you pay Juju. That's
Speaker 1: the only reason. It's the only reason. The only guy
Speaker 1: out of this receiver room that deserves to keep playing
Speaker 1: is Kendrick Port. Everybody else should be riding the pine
Speaker 1: for the younger guys, the more explosive options, and also
Speaker 1: obviously the guys that are going to develop hopefully or
Speaker 1: maybe not.
Speaker 2: We'll see you includingly cunning him. No, Okay, yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that expands beyond the receivers. I understand, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe with the line it's a little tricky, but I
Speaker 2: would give Mafia a chance to win that job against
Speaker 2: Cole Strange.
Speaker 1: But I'm not doing it with they're off, because this
Speaker 1: is an interest of fixing it, Okay. And I think
Speaker 1: the reason why I say play the kids, and I
Speaker 1: know I brought out the developmental thing. Maybe you just
Speaker 1: think they're better. I think they're better. Okay.
Speaker 2: I would say play the kid like uh Marte Mop
Speaker 2: who's only played like twenty percent of snaps this year. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and some of that is because he's a passing down
Speaker 2: player and they keep following these big holes and teams
Speaker 2: are running the ball, But like, play him, play Keon White,
Speaker 2: another guy that should play. I'm off for playing the kids,
Speaker 2: but yeah, a wide receiver, they might help you.
Speaker 1: Right now, DeVante Parker and Juju Smith Schuster have given
Speaker 1: you zilch, nothing, nada.
Speaker 2: I mean, there was that one ball against the Saints,
Speaker 2: I mean, and Parker did a good job of getting
Speaker 2: himself in position to catch it, and he just didn't
Speaker 2: close his hands. It just went right through his hands
Speaker 2: and he didn't make it and he didn't like make
Speaker 2: it any effort to go up and get it or sorry,
Speaker 2: made the effort to go up and get it, but
Speaker 2: he didn't make any effort to actually make the catch
Speaker 2: once he got up there, and it was like, what
Speaker 2: are we doing here?
Speaker 1: He's one on one all the time and he doesn't win,
Speaker 1: right because teams are begging Mac Jones to throw the
Speaker 1: ball outside the numbers. Yeah, and he's so it. Parker's
Speaker 1: one on one all the time, he doesn't win. Juju.
Speaker 1: We know we don't have to like beat a dead
Speaker 1: horse like Juju has been terrible for them all right,
Speaker 1: So play the youngins born Born Thornton for this week
Speaker 1: Boorn Thornton Booty who's lining up where I would play
Speaker 1: Born at the Z yeah, I'd play Booty as a
Speaker 1: third receiver, and I'd played Taekwon at the X.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, probably i'd play Taekwon at the X. In twelve,
Speaker 2: I would almost play when you go to eleven, I'd
Speaker 2: kind of put Taekwon in the slot just to get
Speaker 2: him some free releases. Yes, and maybe it's Born at
Speaker 2: the X. Maybe it's Booty. They can kind of just
Speaker 2: go back and forth between. Yeah, I'm not like two
Speaker 2: caught up and like where exactly they'll play. I think
Speaker 2: Bill O'Brien will figure that piece of it out, but I'm.
Speaker 1: Just I'm just curious. Yeah, because I'm thinking about it
Speaker 1: for this week, Like Taekwon's not the savior, right, Like
Speaker 1: we know that Taekwon's not the savior, but for starters,
Speaker 1: Parker's given his zilch. Parker has given you nothing, And
Speaker 1: I think that there's something to be said for the
Speaker 1: fact that Taekwon can at least run through a defense
Speaker 1: like it might happen, like he might just run.
Speaker 2: I think you're looking for can he be a contributor.
Speaker 2: Maybe he's not a coverage dictator, but if he can
Speaker 2: show you enough that he can be your third or
Speaker 2: fourth receiver. Does that help them this year? I don't know,
Speaker 2: but we've talked about what next year is going to
Speaker 2: look like. Parker and Juju really the only receivers under
Speaker 2: contract are they still gonna be here? And then Thornton
Speaker 2: and that's it in the rookies, Like Bourn's contract's upright,
Speaker 2: So how many receivers do you have to go get
Speaker 2: next year? If you know Thornton can at least be
Speaker 2: a depth guy. It's not great for the fiftieth overall pick,
Speaker 2: but hey, it's something, yeah, and it's one less guy.
Speaker 1: You have to add it. And even if he can
Speaker 1: also just be I'm not as concerned with Taekwon with
Speaker 1: volume as I am with like actual impact of the
Speaker 1: spacing and the ability to threatn the safety, to keep
Speaker 1: the safety over the top, and like how it opens
Speaker 1: up the middle of the field maybe a little bit
Speaker 1: just by having somebody on the outside that can actually
Speaker 1: run by somebody one on one. It's not like I
Speaker 1: don't expect, because of what we've seen, for Taekwan to
Speaker 1: ever develop into like a high volume producer. But I
Speaker 1: also don't need him to do that necessarily. I just
Speaker 1: need him to be a threat out on the football field.
Speaker 1: So the offensive line configuration go back to the March
Speaker 1: offensive line configuration, play the kids. I also just would
Speaker 1: say quickly about Booty. I saw enough from Booty in
Speaker 1: the summer to think at this point when it comes
Speaker 1: to like the quick hitters, the slants, the screens off
Speaker 1: our pos, all this stuff that they're trying to feed
Speaker 1: to Juju, I just think Booty's in more explosive player
Speaker 1: at this time at this point, so I think he's
Speaker 1: that are suited to catch some of those passes if
Speaker 1: that's what you're still gonna do.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: So those are my two things so far. Number three,
Speaker 1: I think Hunter Henry is your only consistent option, probably
Speaker 1: your best option at this point. I think Kendrick Bourne
Speaker 1: is more uh there's more boom to his game, but
Speaker 1: there's not as much consistency to him. Okay, Hunt, I
Speaker 1: believe that everything in the passing game needs the funnel
Speaker 1: through Hunter Henry. Yeah. Yeah, everything he's there. I mean
Speaker 1: he needs to.
Speaker 2: I want to say he needs to be in the
Speaker 2: Julian Nevilman role, not like he.
Speaker 1: Needs to be the chain mover. He needs to be
Speaker 1: ten to twelve targets a game. Yeah, and he needs
Speaker 1: to be the chain mover, Like when it's third down.
Speaker 1: You know that first third down of the game last
Speaker 1: week against the Saints, the route that Mac threw to
Speaker 1: him is really just like clearing it out, Like he's
Speaker 1: not even really the first read in the progression. Necessarily
Speaker 1: it's a clear out route. He's running through the middle
Speaker 1: of the field to take the linebacker and the safety
Speaker 1: out of the window for the crosser to Devonte Parker.
Speaker 1: I don't want him clearing out. I want the ball
Speaker 1: going to Hunter Henry, right, So Hunter Henry, I think,
Speaker 1: needs to be whatever way you want to call it,
Speaker 1: like the number one reading the progression. The concept needs
Speaker 1: to be set up for Hunter Henry, Like he's got
Speaker 1: to be your go to volume guy in this offense
Speaker 1: because the receivers. I think Kendrick Bourn's like, like I
Speaker 1: just said, a good big play guy, and I don't
Speaker 1: mean like he's gonna hit a seventy yard touchdown, but
Speaker 1: you get you catch my drift. Like he's one of
Speaker 1: those types of guys that can make some high, high
Speaker 1: impact plays, but not necessarily high volume plays. The volume
Speaker 1: can pass catcher in this offense for you, is Hunter
Speaker 1: Henry so he needs to be the third down chain mover.
Speaker 1: He needs to be the guy that you set up
Speaker 1: to wind man to man like, that's the guy that
Speaker 1: I'm funneling the offense through right now. So that's number three,
Speaker 1: number four, last one here, and this one I cannot
Speaker 1: stress enough is something that I just can't figure out
Speaker 1: about this team. Thy Montgomery needs to be the third
Speaker 1: down back. Yes, they need Toy Montgomery to be the
Speaker 1: third down back. I don't understand why they don't want
Speaker 1: to do this. I don't understand why he's playing wide receiver.
Speaker 1: I don't get any of the usage with thy Montgomery
Speaker 1: to this point. He has shown in last summer, in
Speaker 1: the opening week of that season, last year, and this
Speaker 1: summer that he's a decent third down back and I
Speaker 1: need to see him in that role. I think that
Speaker 1: this offense is starving for the checkdowns, the dump offfs
Speaker 1: into the flats, the one on ones against the linebacker,
Speaker 1: and having somebody that can actually get open. And I
Speaker 1: don't think Zeke and Remandre are getting the job done
Speaker 1: in that sense. I think that they take too long
Speaker 1: to get into their routes. I think that Mac doesn't
Speaker 1: know if they're on an option. Are they breaking in?
Speaker 1: Are they breaking out? And he's waiting. He's holding the
Speaker 1: ball a lot, trying to throw the football to them,
Speaker 1: waiting for them to get out of the backfield, waiting
Speaker 1: for their route to declare just two much much time,
Speaker 1: take it time. Montgomery's got to be the third down back.
Speaker 1: So those are the four things that I would do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know where I'm at with Montgomery.
Speaker 2: I agree with you on that he had that bad
Speaker 2: drop this week, but that's not you can't be sending
Speaker 2: time Montgomery.
Speaker 1: Go ball. Yeah I was a crosser, but he's playing
Speaker 1: wide receiver. I might and agains. So I would add
Speaker 1: a couple things to that one. Here we go again.
Speaker 1: You want to guess who I'm going with this.
Speaker 2: No, just get in ie formation or single back and
Speaker 2: just hand the ball off like that. No more fake
Speaker 2: push push, no more running out of shotgun, no more
Speaker 2: remember like Pop Warner, Remember twenty two dive two back to.
Speaker 2: I know that's not how plays are called at this level,
Speaker 2: but like, can I get a twenty two dive.
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Something like that? Run the ball like that. That's really
Speaker 2: the only thing I'd add they need. They're not going
Speaker 2: to be able to win games during the ball forty
Speaker 2: times a game. They need some sort of semblance of
Speaker 2: a running game. In the running game the way it's
Speaker 2: constructed now, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, I agree. I think that in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, like I kind of put that all
Speaker 1: together with the offensive line take, you know, that it's
Speaker 1: all kind of goes together. I do think that based
Speaker 1: off of, you know, some of the things that you know,
Speaker 1: I've talked to some of the players about this week.
Speaker 1: You know, I asked a couple of guys, all right, well,
Speaker 1: Bill O'Brien said that there's gonna be tweaks. He didn't
Speaker 1: say that there's gonna be like wholesale changes, but he
Speaker 1: said that there's gonna be tweaks. And I think some
Speaker 1: of the things that they are gonna try to tweak is,
Speaker 1: you know, less less tosses, less outside zone, like let's
Speaker 1: trying to hit the outside and just letting these guys,
Speaker 1: these big guys like on Wyne Vederian Lowe, Trent Brown,
Speaker 1: like just fire off the ball. If it's Mafi at guard, like,
Speaker 1: just fire off the ball. Right. Like to your point,
Speaker 1: it's not not as much of the side to side,
Speaker 1: not as much as the movement block, but just gap
Speaker 1: and just run ahead, right like that's sort of gonna
Speaker 1: be sort of the goal I think more this week.
Speaker 1: And the Raiders defense, like you should be able to
Speaker 1: run the ball a little bit on that interior D line.
Speaker 1: So I'm with you on that. But those are the
Speaker 1: things that I would try to do. Now, there's no
Speaker 1: quick fixes. They have a personnel issue. They have a
Speaker 1: talent issue on this team. We all know that. So
Speaker 1: it's not gonna fix that's not gonna fix itself overnight.
Speaker 1: But if you start to think about some of the
Speaker 1: things that the team can do to make it better,
Speaker 1: I think that's where you have to start. It's obviously,
Speaker 1: like I said, it's not not gonna be the number
Speaker 1: one scoring offense in the league the rest of the
Speaker 1: way just because you make time Montgomery the third down back.
Speaker 1: We are all aware of that. But in terms of
Speaker 1: what they can do in the on the micro level
Speaker 1: to try to make this at least look like an
Speaker 1: NFL offense, those are some of the places that I
Speaker 1: would start, big picture wise, really quickly before we open
Speaker 1: the phones. I think my like, my one thing with
Speaker 1: the big picture on this team, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you agree with this. Alex, I was walking. I think
Speaker 1: we walked out together on Sunday after the game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I fully admit I said this yesterday. I think
Speaker 1: on playbook like, I was like, fire everybody, right, ihire everybody.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I do think that we
Speaker 1: need to take a step back and take a deep breath.
Speaker 1: And I think that this is one thing I'm not
Speaker 1: saying like because they're gonna turn the season around and
Speaker 1: make the playoffs. That's not what I'm saying. But I
Speaker 1: think this is one thing that you know, separates an
Speaker 1: owner like mister Kraft with people that cover the team
Speaker 1: like us in fans. Right, is that the knee jerk
Speaker 1: reaction to fire Bill on Monday morning because they lost
Speaker 1: thirty four to nothing, that didn't happen because you got
Speaker 1: to see the forest through the trees, right. You can't
Speaker 1: just react so knee jerk to everything. I would just
Speaker 1: say that at this point we all know. I think
Speaker 1: where I'm leaning. I think I know where you're leaning.
Speaker 1: By won't speak for you in terms of the future
Speaker 1: of the team and the head coach. I am certainly
Speaker 1: leaning towards a full reset, but With that being said,
Speaker 1: I do want to see the entire body of work.
Speaker 1: I don't think that in season firing is the right
Speaker 1: way to go about this, but I I I'm leaning
Speaker 1: towards that being the end outcome here. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1: But let's see what it looks like, you know, in January. Right,
Speaker 1: let's just let's give it a breath and uh, and
Speaker 1: let's see what it looks like. If it still looks
Speaker 1: like a train wreck, then he's gone, like, that's well.
Speaker 2: I mean, how many games are you gonna lose by?
Speaker 2: If by thirty consecutively? Right, That's kind of what it
Speaker 2: comes down to. Can they be better this week? And
Speaker 2: then what happens when you get to Buffalo in Miami? No,
Speaker 2: it's you got to see the whole picture, definitely, I there.
Speaker 2: I don't know that there needs to be like a
Speaker 2: rush to make a change. There's maybe a little inherent
Speaker 2: value if you wanted to see somebody on your staff
Speaker 2: as an interm you of that. But I don't know
Speaker 2: that it was so much a gut reaction to that
Speaker 2: game as it was the last two weeks. What makes
Speaker 2: it tough for me, and I'm I'm the guy that's
Speaker 2: the optimist. I'm the guy that's always sitting here. You know,
Speaker 2: you make fun of me for being too positive. Sure,
Speaker 2: it's it would be one thing if the issues as
Speaker 2: weird as this sounds, if the issues were things we
Speaker 2: didn't expect, I would almost feel better. Yeah, Like, let's say,
Speaker 2: let's say instead of you know, the offense being bad
Speaker 2: and the defense looking pretty good, let's say that they
Speaker 2: were losing all these games, like sixty to fifty. I
Speaker 2: would almost I'd feel better because I'd be that's really weird,
Speaker 2: but hey, we know this defense can do it, and
Speaker 2: they'll probably turn it around.
Speaker 1: And look at this do what the offense is doing.
Speaker 2: We've been saying since March even, Yeah, the offensive line
Speaker 2: is going to do this team in right, and what
Speaker 2: has happened. The offensive line has done this team in
Speaker 2: So to me, all they've done to this point is
Speaker 2: confirmed priors. And that's where I think it's a little
Speaker 2: again totally. You want to see the forest for the trees,
Speaker 2: but at this point.
Speaker 1: I want to see the full picture.
Speaker 2: But maybe we're not looking at the whole forest. But
Speaker 2: there's a lot of trees in front of us right now.
Speaker 2: And that's you know, every chance I get. I have said,
Speaker 2: this is not an overnight issue, right, Like, this isn't
Speaker 2: just about two games, This isn't just about some you know,
Speaker 2: a battle, was it now like eleven day stretch or
Speaker 2: something like that. This has been brewing, and this has
Speaker 2: been building in the In the personnel side of things particularly,
Speaker 2: is is problematic. They they're right now, Uh, they're not
Speaker 2: a very good talent evaluating team. They don't evaluate talent
Speaker 2: very well. They have really not made a single good
Speaker 2: offensive move on this team in like five years. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this has been my take. Sorry, this this has been
Speaker 2: my take. What was the last good offensive personnel moved
Speaker 2: to Patriots made? And I like Matt when we both
Speaker 2: liked Zeke, but that was like good for the city.
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, the situation is what it is.
Speaker 1: You made the right mo the only good move that
Speaker 1: they have made in the last five years. And I
Speaker 1: know it had and turned out good, Yeah, but it
Speaker 1: was the drafting Mac was the right move, and so I.
Speaker 2: Would argue that they've made one good move since. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it was about forty hours later when they drafted
Speaker 2: Ramandra Stevenson.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like like drafting Christian Gonzalez was a
Speaker 1: good pick too.
Speaker 2: Offensive, I like offensive the last like you look at
Speaker 2: what they've done since, and I don't even know that
Speaker 2: Like some of it is is is misidentifying talent, but
Speaker 2: some of it's also just the lack of trying. Who
Speaker 2: when's the last time they put a and I defined
Speaker 2: premium asset as a top fifty pick or in fre
Speaker 2: agency making a player five highest paid at their position
Speaker 2: in the league. Yeah, when's the last time they put
Speaker 2: a premium asset in an tackle position?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Isaiah Win, They've this isn't It's something that I
Speaker 1: also think that, like we've talked about, but yeah, it
Speaker 1: just to echo your point there, there was there was
Speaker 1: a time in place in Bill Belichick's tenure with the
Speaker 1: Patriots where they always used to be a step ahead
Speaker 1: of these things. Yeah. Uh, you know, I tackle obviously
Speaker 1: the one that we always talk about his Nate soldered
Speaker 1: Matt Light to Nate Solder. Right, they drafted Matt Nate
Speaker 1: Solder a year before Matt Light retired. Nate Solder I
Speaker 1: think he played some right tackle his rookie year and
Speaker 1: some title sixth offensive line tight end thing, but really
Speaker 1: he was a backup. Volmer was at right tackle, Matt
Speaker 1: Light was at left tackle. Those guys were in trench starters.
Speaker 1: There are good players for the Patriots, but they still
Speaker 1: drafted Nate Soldier in the first round because they knew
Speaker 1: Matt Light was going to return.
Speaker 2: Even even at a less impact position. They went, I
Speaker 2: mean it was seamless Kevin Falk to Shane Vereen to
Speaker 2: Danny Woodhead to James White, Danny Woodhead and I don't
Speaker 2: even know. And James White was an important player for
Speaker 2: this offense, and that's an important role for It's it's
Speaker 2: not like they tried to draft his replacement or sign
Speaker 2: his replacement in Whift.
Speaker 1: What was the plan? Like?
Speaker 2: Was it time Montgomery? I don't think it was because
Speaker 2: they'd be playing him there?
Speaker 1: Yes, was it?
Speaker 2: Pierre Struck got caught nineteen passes in college. Again, it
Speaker 2: goes to that point where they haven't invested at all
Speaker 2: at tackle. They made one investment wide receiver. It missed,
Speaker 2: but they made what do you think it's gonna look like?
Speaker 2: And you look at the guys they've had leave. How
Speaker 2: many of these big name players that left. You can't
Speaker 2: find even the attempt the one for one to replace
Speaker 2: a lot of them. You can't even find the attempt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just I think we harp a lot on
Speaker 1: the drafting, but their pro personnel evaluation on offense has
Speaker 1: been terrible.
Speaker 2: No, it's the whole thing again. It's like I said,
Speaker 2: premium mass set. There's such a thing as a premium
Speaker 2: mass set at wide receiver. And people will talk about,
Speaker 2: you know one, people will talk about Hunter Henry Well
Speaker 2: that was technically before mac, but I would say that
Speaker 2: was a good move. People will bring up DeVante Parker.
Speaker 2: He's not I don't think he's in the top twenty
Speaker 2: highest paid receivers in football right now. Nelson Aglar was
Speaker 2: like the twenty fifth highest paid receiver. When they sign up,
Speaker 2: people talked about that, Oh they gave Nelsonnagelor a big contract.
Speaker 2: That's not a big contract for wide receiver in today's game.
Speaker 2: Juju Smith Schuster is the thirty six.
Speaker 1: Highest paid wide receiver in football. Those are not premium assets.
Speaker 1: They are also just bad evaluations of the player. Like
Speaker 1: the deave Port. I'm trying not to like pile on
Speaker 1: them too much about the Jacobe for Juju thing because
Speaker 1: I was wrong about that too, but I was wrong
Speaker 1: about it. Sitting in this chair in this studio talking
Speaker 1: to you about it, I'm not running the football team
Speaker 1: right like right, And I'm not saying that that makes
Speaker 1: me like it's better, but it is kind of better,
Speaker 1: right Like it's you're supposed to know more than me.
Speaker 1: They're supposed to prove us wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're supposed to be here the media, aud mouth
Speaker 2: saying what we think, and everybody in the comments, who
Speaker 2: are these guys, you know, leading to the professionals, and
Speaker 2: then they do the right thing, and everybody rips us
Speaker 2: on Twitter?
Speaker 1: Right, that's the natural order. So they had all the
Speaker 1: information I had about probably said. And I'm not exonerating myself.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying they should have been right, and I
Speaker 1: should have been wrong, and they were wrong too. That's
Speaker 1: a problem. John new Smith is having a much better
Speaker 1: year in Atlanta. So you could talk about that being
Speaker 1: like a usage thing, but I think that that's part
Speaker 1: of GMing right, is knowing how you're gonna use a player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I always say this, You got to
Speaker 2: have whether you're drafting a player, whether you're signing a player,
Speaker 2: you need to have outside like maybe like Day three guys,
Speaker 2: you're just drafting for potential whatever, But whether you're gonna
Speaker 2: draft a player where you're gonna sign a player like
Speaker 2: with a premium asset, what is the plan? We talked
Speaker 2: about this. A lot of people call in and say,
Speaker 2: you know, I like so and so prospect. We did
Speaker 2: this with with Quintin Johnston, right, people, And he's been
Speaker 2: good in LA. Yeah, he's been fine in LA. There
Speaker 2: there are people who called in were like, yeah, we
Speaker 2: like Quinn Johnson. We sat in and said, yeah, he's
Speaker 2: a good player, but is he gonna play what is
Speaker 2: the path to him making them a better team? And
Speaker 2: there were other good players with more clear of a path.
Speaker 2: It does felt like at times they've added guys just
Speaker 2: to add them and the I mean I Johnny Smith,
Speaker 2: Nikil Harry, there's some guys on defense as well that it's.
Speaker 1: Like Jalen Mills, Juwan Williams, what was the plan there? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Are you just adding the player to Adam? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm with you on that. I just it's all of
Speaker 1: it like we I think we harp on the draft
Speaker 1: and this isn't about Like my take earlier by Jerry Judy,
Speaker 1: But I think we harve a lot on the draft
Speaker 1: picks because the drafting has been bad. Outside of a
Speaker 1: few isolated instances, maybe more recently, it's been a little
Speaker 1: bit better than it was in let's say, like sixteen
Speaker 1: to eighteen. But the twenty twenty two draft is not
Speaker 1: better than anything that brings it right. Twenty one was good.
Speaker 1: This year's looks good. Yeah, this year looks okay. I
Speaker 1: mean Christians Alz looks great.
Speaker 2: Christians also looks great. They'll hit on one of Mapu
Speaker 2: and White. I think the jury's still out, but there's
Speaker 2: a night with each one that I think one of
Speaker 2: those guys.
Speaker 1: I think they might both like technically hit, but are
Speaker 1: either one of them an impact player? And I think
Speaker 1: you've seen flashes from the I don't think. I think
Speaker 1: both of those guys are role players, and the defense
Speaker 1: that knows how to use role players. Like I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that it is like a horrible thing. You just
Speaker 1: read off all the third round picks the last few years.
Speaker 1: If they get role players in those picks and then
Speaker 1: to Mario Douglas might be something. So it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I do think there's a misconception that a good draft means,
Speaker 1: like all the players are like six of seven, five
Speaker 1: of seven. If fifty percent your players become like solid
Speaker 1: contributors from a DRID, you want it. You always want
Speaker 1: to hit on your first You generally have two Day
Speaker 1: three picks. You want to hit two of two. You
Speaker 1: want to hit on two of those three, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then one or two on Day three. Yeah.
Speaker 2: If about half your draft class becomes contributing players, you
Speaker 2: had a solid DREFD, you do better beat a solid draft.
Speaker 2: I think that they hit on their first round pick.
Speaker 2: I feel it's a decent chance one of those two
Speaker 2: Day two guys turns into something and then they have
Speaker 2: to Mario Douglas and it's like, all right, if one
Speaker 2: more of those Day three guys comes along, maybe a
Speaker 2: Tonio Maffi's a guy. Yeah, all right, that's just fine.
Speaker 2: You're not you know, it's not gonna go up in
Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame, but that's a fine draft.
Speaker 1: Mafi kills me. And I didn't know when I was
Speaker 1: gonna do this, but I you know, I'm gonna say it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it for three down. But I think
Speaker 1: the biggest thing is is, uh, you know, it's been
Speaker 1: pro personnel and it's been on a on a college
Speaker 1: scouting level too, and I think sometimes we even don't
Speaker 1: call both things out and I and I really feel
Speaker 1: like it's been on a pro level.
Speaker 2: Off.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the calls and then we'll
Speaker 1: do three up, three down from this last game against
Speaker 1: the Saints. Brandon is an Oregon Brandon, if you're still there,
Speaker 1: I doubted that one. Cousin, Patty, what's up, cousin Patty?
Speaker 6: You know I'm still hanging on.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Evan.
Speaker 6: I don't want this to come off as like in
Speaker 6: a jerk, but the idea that I brought up on you,
Speaker 6: like I had no idea, Like that's that's why I
Speaker 6: asked the question. That's why I had the idea. Like
Speaker 6: I didn't know they were still running McDade teams.
Speaker 1: Oh no, No, I just didn't know. You're good.
Speaker 6: No, I'm glady cleared up because I'm like, all right, well,
Speaker 6: I guess that makes sense. It looks like crap. So
Speaker 6: here's my idea.
Speaker 3: I will you know, what do you guys.
Speaker 6: Think about this? Love the idea of trading for Jerry
Speaker 6: and you know we're gonna have all this frigging money
Speaker 6: to spend in the offseason, Go get T Higgins and
Speaker 6: draft I don't know how to say his name, Bashanu
Speaker 6: or and I mean, just ride it out with Mac
Speaker 6: for at least next year. I don't know who's coming
Speaker 6: up in twenty twenty five. Do you think that's a
Speaker 6: better idea than possibly taking a like another quarterback like
Speaker 6: a Drake May. Yeah, I agree. I don't think we're
Speaker 6: gonna get Caleb Williams. But then you're you're sort of
Speaker 6: throwing them to the wolves, you know, I mean basically
Speaker 6: our whole line minus Cole Strange, and you know, all
Speaker 6: the guys that we drafted, all the guards and Jake
Speaker 6: Andrews that we drafted are are off the team next year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question, Patty, and thanks for the call. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's a good question about what's the best way for it.
Speaker 1: Is it going back in the quarterback Carris in the
Speaker 1: draft and drafting one of the quarterbacks, or is it
Speaker 1: continuing to build the offensive personnel so that either Mac
Speaker 1: works or two years from now, a year from now,
Speaker 1: you get the quarterback and just drop him in and
Speaker 1: hit the ground running. They have so many holes on
Speaker 1: offense that it's a fair question to ask if it's
Speaker 1: better to just start drafting offensive players that aren't quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: because no quarterback is gonna succeed if you just drop
Speaker 1: him into this mess right now. But my contention to
Speaker 1: that is, and this is the one time that I
Speaker 1: might agree with you on this, I don't know what
Speaker 1: the quarterback classes in twenty twenty five and beyond are
Speaker 1: going to look like. I do know that there's a
Speaker 1: couple of quarterbacks in this class that I really like.
Speaker 1: So if you really like a quarterback in this class
Speaker 1: and you can upgrade that position, I'm of this, of
Speaker 1: the thought that you have to do that. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, I can hear the other side of
Speaker 1: it of drafting, was it Joe alt Right is the
Speaker 1: other the guy he's said, say you're gonna love him,
Speaker 1: Marvin Harrison Junior. If you're that high up like I
Speaker 1: brought Bowers, I can understand that line of thinking, and
Speaker 1: maybe we get to that point I said earlier of
Speaker 1: wanting to see the whole picture. If Bill O'Brien has
Speaker 1: Mac Jones playing better football in the second half of
Speaker 1: the season, and the arrow starts to point back upward,
Speaker 1: for mac I don't think he's ever gonna develop into
Speaker 1: anything like special at the position, but maybe he's a
Speaker 1: better bridge option for the time being as you draft
Speaker 1: your left tackle stud or your receiver stud or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just the other thing you have to consider here
Speaker 2: is the whole value of that rookie quarterback contract. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and the clocks essentially run out on that for mac
Speaker 2: Jones next year. You know they have the fifth year option,
Speaker 2: but next year's released last year under contract. You have
Speaker 2: a chance to reset that thing entirely if you take
Speaker 2: a quarterback this year. And if it wasn't such a
Speaker 2: strong quarterback class, I might say, you know, Joe al
Speaker 2: Fashanu or whatever, but you're gonna have a shot. I think,
Speaker 2: get up potentially franchise guy as long as you're picking
Speaker 2: in the top fifteen. And I used to be the
Speaker 2: one that was like, yeah, if you don't get the
Speaker 2: guy memember you really wanted, was it Davis Mills or
Speaker 2: Kellen Mond, I'd like to tell that the mac Jones
Speaker 2: here where you were like, oh, just you know, wait
Speaker 2: till the second.
Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I said, if you if I
Speaker 1: had to take any of the day two guys like
Speaker 1: the day two three guys.
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of give myself
Speaker 2: the opposite of Victory lap here too, because you wanted
Speaker 2: that guy and I said no at that point, just
Speaker 2: wait till next year. Next year looks like a really
Speaker 2: good class too. You remember the guy who I was
Speaker 2: talking about was filed your COVID who's now.
Speaker 1: A tight end. So look, you did like I did,
Speaker 1: like filder Covic and then BC ruined him. Uh mate,
Speaker 1: going around this city right exactly exactly, maybe next year's
Speaker 1: class ends up being good. I personally believe Shouldar Sanders
Speaker 1: is going to go back to school, So I think
Speaker 1: that's the only guy that I can tell you is
Speaker 1: going to be in next year's class right now.
Speaker 2: Right, So Shouldar Sanders is gonna go one one. So
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to be the worst team in the league.
Speaker 2: And if you're picking Joe Alt, if you add more Harrison,
Speaker 2: those guys are gonna win you games.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I look.
Speaker 2: At the rest at class, the guys who are projected
Speaker 2: first round picks right now, Caid klub Nick, I don't
Speaker 2: think this is very updated because Clemson's offense has not
Speaker 2: been good.
Speaker 1: He does not look like the typical Clemson quarterback. Drew Aller.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: Did you see the press conference with James Franklin about
Speaker 2: Drew the other day where the reporter ass like, have
Speaker 2: you ever told h to just throw it deep?
Speaker 1: Just to do it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Drew Aller right now? Has you're drafting Mac Jones again.
Speaker 2: If you draft Drew Aller, the only other quarterback is
Speaker 2: supposed to go in the first round next year's a
Speaker 2: guy named Connor Connor Weigman from tex A and m
Speaker 2: who's not even a starter there yet.
Speaker 1: And then you get in like Ty Simpson, who hasn't Okay,
Speaker 1: sot me ask you this question.
Speaker 2: If you have a chance to draft a franchise quarterback
Speaker 2: with your quarterback who at best has been up and
Speaker 2: down entering the final year of his rookie deal, I
Speaker 2: think you have to do it.
Speaker 1: It's just too important of a position. So let me
Speaker 1: ask you the important question, because this is this is
Speaker 1: a good money question that we're going to get starting
Speaker 1: in January. We're gonna get this questioning at me now
Speaker 1: five thousand times. Yeah, who is the Jalen Hurt of
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're not even asking me about the first round?
Speaker 2: Who is the Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 1: Because let me preface it. If you're gonna this is
Speaker 1: the this is the Carson Wentz year. The Eagles drafted
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts right going into Carson Wentz's fourth year. They
Speaker 1: gave Carson Wentz the fourth year to see if it
Speaker 1: was gonna be good or not. It wasn't. That's when
Speaker 1: they pivoted to Jalen Hurts. So everybody that called us
Speaker 1: last year in last draft cycle about the kid from Tennessee, oh,
Speaker 1: Ken Hooker and calling him the next Jalen Hurts and
Speaker 1: all this stuff, they I kept on saying, you're a
Speaker 1: year too early, You're a year too early. We're here now.
Speaker 1: So is there I know JJ McCarthy is like the
Speaker 1: mac Jones. I have no interest in JJ McCarthy. I
Speaker 1: have zero interesting Yeah. So is there a guy that
Speaker 1: has the tools but maybe needs to be put together? Okay?
Speaker 1: So can I give you a couple of names? Yeah?
Speaker 2: You know I have to give you a couple of
Speaker 2: names here. Yeah, a guy a lot of people like
Speaker 2: is Riley Leonard from.
Speaker 1: Duke Oh yeah, I do like him I like his moxie.
Speaker 1: He just make up.
Speaker 2: He's got the makeup. He runs really well. He is
Speaker 2: not remotely a passer right now, and he just suffered
Speaker 2: a pretty serious ankleing, so there's some wonders about him.
Speaker 1: That sounds right up the Patriots.
Speaker 2: I like kJ Jefferson from Arkansas. Big dude, big guy,
Speaker 2: cannon arm plays with a ton of confidence, can run
Speaker 2: the football. He's kind of got that like, and I
Speaker 2: use this comp very very loosely. He's got a little
Speaker 2: bit of that Cam Newton thing where he's like, I
Speaker 2: can throw it pastua, I can run through you. Now,
Speaker 2: his decision making that needs to build up, both as
Speaker 2: a runner and a passer. He's a little too loose
Speaker 2: with the football right now. The conference is maybe a
Speaker 2: little too much, But I like him.
Speaker 1: Joe Milton from Tennessee.
Speaker 2: From Tennessee, I am very interested for you to actually
Speaker 2: watch and break down time.
Speaker 1: Watched like a little bit of him because he would
Speaker 1: come in for Cockers sometimes last year because they're blowing
Speaker 1: teams out. And he would also come in from Hooker
Speaker 1: for hook On Hill Mary's because he's.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing about Joe Milton. If you need somebody
Speaker 2: to throw the football eighty yards. Joe Milton can throw
Speaker 2: the football at the right. If you need somebody to
Speaker 2: throw a five yard slant, Joe Milton can throw the
Speaker 2: football eighty yards. Like that's just kind of There's one
Speaker 2: play I think it might have been in their spring game.
Speaker 2: I can't remember where they're at, like the five yard line,
Speaker 2: and he's trying to hit a crosser along the end line,
Speaker 2: like the back of the end zone, and he throws
Speaker 2: the ball like like four rows into the stands. Yeah,
Speaker 2: which is like impressive but not really helpful.
Speaker 1: But you're telling me he's like his in his pro day.
Speaker 1: He's gonna He's Pro day. They're gonna love.
Speaker 2: So so here's they Remember how last year I said,
Speaker 2: Anthony Richardson makes Josh Allen looks like he plays under control.
Speaker 2: Joe Milton is the next evolution of that. Okay, but
Speaker 2: Joe Milton. Joe Milton makes Josh Allen look like Chad Pennington.
Speaker 1: And Joe Milton's defense, that is kind of what we're
Speaker 1: talking about.
Speaker 2: So again we're talking about the guy who just rock
Speaker 2: Can you build him up? That's maybe Joe Milton. I've
Speaker 2: got two more for you okay quickly. One is Grayson
Speaker 2: McCall from Coastal Carolina. Gray McCall's been in college for
Speaker 2: a while, and.
Speaker 1: One coat say, like is he is he thirty? At like?
Speaker 1: I think he's like twenty four? What point are we
Speaker 1: gonna go to the NFL?
Speaker 2: So Grayson McCall, people thought he'd be a first round
Speaker 2: pick at one point and then a bunch of quarterbacks
Speaker 2: in this class kind of came out of nowhere. He's
Speaker 2: twenty two, it'll be twenty three in December. He's if
Speaker 2: you're somebody who thinks, maybe Zach Wilson that makeup is
Speaker 2: what you want and he just got butchered by the
Speaker 2: Jets or the spoiled rich kid thing did him in.
Speaker 2: Grayson McCall moves around really well, throws a really pretty ball.
Speaker 2: You're gonna wonder about the jumping level of competition and
Speaker 2: consistency in the last one. And this one's really interesting.
Speaker 2: You talked before about Riley Leonard being up the Patriots
Speaker 2: alley if it's still this regime, because this is a
Speaker 2: trend with them. Dj Ujungloway is the quarterback at Guy.
Speaker 2: So he was he was the number one recruit in
Speaker 2: the country coming out in class of twenty nineteen. Not
Speaker 2: number one quarterback, number one recruit, and it was supposed
Speaker 2: to be they had Deshaun Watson, they had Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 2: This was the next guy. Big dude, six four to two.
Speaker 2: I think he's two fifty. Yeah, six four, two fifty,
Speaker 2: can throw the ball around the yard. Electric it'ber Matt
Speaker 2: and we're doing this. They they never they never figured
Speaker 2: him out. Dabo Sweeney, shocker, couldn't figure him out. He
Speaker 2: and I was ready to write him off. But he
Speaker 2: has gone to Oregon State this year and that I
Speaker 2: know you don't like Pack twelve pac Twel's no joke,
Speaker 2: this yere Beavers. He has been awesome through five touchdowns
Speaker 2: last week beat Utah. Alright, this is but this is
Speaker 2: the Patriots thing, right, former high score recruit maybe got
Speaker 2: misused in college.
Speaker 1: We're not doing this again next year. This is the
Speaker 1: Patriots thing. Right.
Speaker 2: But but but but you know, high high ranked, high
Speaker 2: score recruit, maybe didn get figured out. Old has been
Speaker 2: really good this year. And you're the guy that's clamoring
Speaker 2: for that modern quarterback. He can run it, he can
Speaker 2: throw it, he can process up the line.
Speaker 1: All of it.
Speaker 2: This is who he was supposed to be, and it
Speaker 2: just never clicked for him at organ At Clemson, it's
Speaker 2: clicking for him.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: He's gonna rise up draft boards. He's gonna be a
Speaker 2: guy that probably ends up in that day too, maybe
Speaker 2: early day three conversation that people look at and say,
Speaker 2: if he goes to the right and this was Jalen Hurts,
Speaker 2: if he goes to the right situation with the right
Speaker 2: coaching staff, the talent is certainly there, not just for
Speaker 2: him to be a starter, but for be a guy,
Speaker 2: to be a guy that can win games.
Speaker 1: It's just how much did Clemson set him back? All right?
Speaker 1: All right? I like that. It's depressing that we're talking
Speaker 1: about that on October twelve, you're gonna be a big
Speaker 1: DJ younga leg and that that's where we're at. I
Speaker 1: I just really quickly on the quarterbacks because I have
Speaker 1: not watched them as extensively as you. As you just
Speaker 1: rattled off, like seventeen, you gotta watch this week. But
Speaker 1: the one, well, so let me just play. It's still early,
Speaker 1: still a lot of ball to be played, so that
Speaker 1: can all change. The one guy that I really really like,
Speaker 1: and this is not like a mid round Yeah, because
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not that deep. Yeah, I love Drake
Speaker 1: Bay Oh Evan likes the second best prospect in the way.
Speaker 1: I really like Drake May. And when I watched Drake May,
Speaker 1: my comp right now is Justin Herbert. Yeah, you're not
Speaker 1: the only one that says that. Oh really, Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: that's you know, I don't pay attention, So who is it.
Speaker 2: One of the big draft guys. Is like he's halfway
Speaker 2: between Justin Herbert and Josh Allen.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think he's more controlled than Josh Allen, So
Speaker 1: maybe that's where we're getting at from.
Speaker 2: I definitely think he's closer to Herbert. I I'm starting
Speaker 2: to come around on him. Like my thing with quarterbacks,
Speaker 2: with first round quarterbacks again, it's that carrying trait thing.
Speaker 2: What does he do that nobody else in the class does.
Speaker 2: Drake May is kind of in this weird spot where
Speaker 2: even I think when you take Caleb Williams out of it,
Speaker 2: because he's a unicorn.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know that any single one of Drake May's
Speaker 2: traits are the best in this class, but every single
Speaker 2: one might be the second best in this class. And
Speaker 2: usually that's the guy that I'm like, but he's he's
Speaker 2: just so well rounded that I'm starting to come around
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, Like I got he's got confidence, poise, polished
Speaker 1: like he just looks he knows that he can play
Speaker 1: the position. He knows what the position entails. And I
Speaker 1: think one of the things that I watched him a
Speaker 1: lot last year because of some of their skill players
Speaker 1: and Josh dat that was who it was. He's got
Speaker 1: some of that that off platform moxie too, right, Like
Speaker 1: he can move around and throw off platform, he can
Speaker 1: throw a little side arm, he can flick the wrist
Speaker 1: sort of thing. I think he's got a lot of
Speaker 1: the of just throw making ability. Like he's just a quarterback.
Speaker 1: And it's not like we're trying to make an athlete
Speaker 1: into a quarterback. It's not like we're trying to do
Speaker 1: what they try to do with Mac where you're trying
Speaker 1: to take the intangibles and turn that into an NFL quarterback.
Speaker 1: Like you said, this guy's extremely well round.
Speaker 2: So it's you know, everybody wants to point to Mitchell Trubisky.
Speaker 1: He and I was doing that.
Speaker 2: I was doing that a couple of months ago because
Speaker 2: I was not super impressed with him last year as
Speaker 2: a freshman. Yeah, Richard freshman, I like, I think people
Speaker 2: were just talking about projection.
Speaker 1: And not what he was doing.
Speaker 2: And you're seeing that growth now and yeah, he's fucking
Speaker 2: it's it's I can't.
Speaker 1: I know it's Syracuse. I I don't don't, Okay, but
Speaker 1: I'm just saying. But I'm saying that I don't hype
Speaker 1: him up in terms of like actually the end result
Speaker 1: of the play, but like knowing where to go at
Speaker 1: the ball. He's just I think he's got something, all right.
Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to spend too
Speaker 1: They're gonna let me just say that they have plenty
Speaker 1: of times they're gonna play Duke in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: That Duke.
Speaker 2: And this is to the Rley Leonard people, Oh look,
Speaker 2: he made Duke relevant. That Duke offense is fine to fine,
Speaker 2: That Duke defense might be one of the ten best
Speaker 2: in college football right now.
Speaker 1: That Duke. This is what you do.
Speaker 2: So for people including you, who want to learn about
Speaker 2: these quarterbacks, here teach me.
Speaker 1: This is what you do.
Speaker 2: You find the games where they're actually fit. Like Washington organ.
Speaker 1: This year talking about quarterbacks in the draft, Drake May
Speaker 1: against Duke is gonna be very all right, let's clear
Speaker 1: the phone lines and then let's talk about the actual
Speaker 1: Patriots team. All right, Jeff is in Maine. What's up? Jeff?
Speaker 4: Hey, guys, how you doing.
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 4: So you can twist my arm into the Erry Duke.
Speaker 4: I don't mind taking him for the future. Uh, there's
Speaker 4: a part of me that kind of just wants to
Speaker 4: let this team die and sea, especially the offfensive line.
Speaker 4: You know, use what you got. I don't think we
Speaker 4: need to trade for any defensive players or anything like that.
Speaker 4: We've got put of his talent coming back. That's my
Speaker 4: take on the roster. And then you guys know, great
Speaker 4: value in the Walmart brand.
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, So.
Speaker 4: I don't remember how we used him, but assuming that
Speaker 4: Bill O'Brien uses Taekwon like great value, will Fuller, what
Speaker 4: would that usage look like based on you know, whatever
Speaker 4: film from Houston you watched to scout what Bill O'Brien
Speaker 4: used to do during the off season. I'll take off
Speaker 4: the here, thanks guys.
Speaker 1: Thanks Jeff. I actually wrote about this in the off season,
Speaker 1: because like, what else are we going to freaking write about?
Speaker 1: So I wrote about this in the off season, and
Speaker 1: I went back and watched Will Fuller and Jamison Williams,
Speaker 1: you know, Jameson Williams at Alabama with Bill O'Brien as
Speaker 1: the offensive coordinator and Will Fuller in Houston with Bill
Speaker 1: O'Brien as the head coach slash offensive guy. I think
Speaker 1: with Will Fuller, what you saw you did see a
Speaker 1: lot of verticals with Will Fuller, right, a lot of
Speaker 1: go balls, a lot of things, you know, just verticals
Speaker 1: down the field. Uh. He used him a lot, though,
Speaker 1: And this is what I'm looking forward to with Taekwon,
Speaker 1: and I think Alex you had mentioned this a little
Speaker 1: bit at the beginning of the show. Uh. He used
Speaker 1: him a lot out of like stack alignments. Right, so
Speaker 1: two receiver stacks. Uh. So you have the point man
Speaker 1: on the line of scrimmage. The idea is is that
Speaker 1: that point man is going to run off the ball
Speaker 1: and he's gonna he's gonna take the contact, right, he's
Speaker 1: gonna get off the line. He's gonna create a little
Speaker 1: bit of pocket of space underneath him for the receiver
Speaker 1: to get off the line, uh, without a jam. Right,
Speaker 1: So get a free release at the line of scrimmage
Speaker 1: and then will Fuller is so fast that he was
Speaker 1: able to then just make make things happen. With Taekwon,
Speaker 1: I I feel a similar way, and why I'm taking
Speaker 1: the cheese per usual on a receiver shocker with Taekwon,
Speaker 1: I feel like that's similar where I think that Bill
Speaker 1: O'Brien is gonna find ways to get him off the
Speaker 1: line of scrimmage, whether it's playing him out of the slot,
Speaker 1: which is what I think that you mentioned earlier, which
Speaker 1: is one way motion him right, like running him into
Speaker 1: the route like they do with Tyreek Hill in Miami,
Speaker 1: or running him out of bunches or stacks where teams
Speaker 1: have to pick him up down the field instead of
Speaker 1: jamming him at the line of scrimmage. I think last year,
Speaker 1: and I'm not trying to go down the road of
Speaker 1: like let's pick on Maddy p but last year they
Speaker 1: played him a lot at the X. They played him
Speaker 1: a lot on the line of scrimmage, and so he
Speaker 1: saw a lot of pressman and at his size, he
Speaker 1: just isn't big enough to get off of the pressman
Speaker 1: coverage at this level. So what you have to do
Speaker 1: is you have to get him off the line of
Speaker 1: scrimmage and I think that that's why I was bullish
Speaker 1: in the spring, and you all made fun of me
Speaker 1: because of the one practice that I saw from Taekwon,
Speaker 1: and I was already like all all in on it.
Speaker 1: The reason why is because I saw like a plan
Speaker 1: being hatched of. He's one hundred and eighty pounds soaking wet,
Speaker 1: so we're not gonna just isolate him against man coverage
Speaker 1: on the outside and expect him to win one on one.
Speaker 1: We're gonna find creative ways to get him open. And
Speaker 1: I think that that's what Bill O'Brien's gonna do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you can go back on Patriots dot com if
Speaker 1: you search that I like Fuller Jamison Williams my name
Speaker 1: on Patriots dot com. He should probably be able to
Speaker 1: find that. I remember writing about it. All right. John
Speaker 1: is in Louisiana. What's up, John? Hey?
Speaker 3: What's up?
Speaker 1: Your Yes?
Speaker 4: All right?
Speaker 3: I want I want just talking about it with moving
Speaker 3: on with Mac and draft to drink me. The reason
Speaker 3: why I was thinking about it is you know exactly
Speaker 3: what you have in Mac, so why not just build
Speaker 3: around him. I know he's having a roth here, but
Speaker 3: we know what we got it. I'm just building around
Speaker 3: them like, why why not you go that route?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a fair take. And thanks for the call, John,
Speaker 1: It's an interesting it's a fair take. And the caller
Speaker 1: before I talked about, well why don't we use to
Speaker 1: pick on a tackle or receiver and continue to build
Speaker 1: with Mac. I think the problem is is that you
Speaker 1: might know what you have with Mac and is that
Speaker 1: he ain't it right?
Speaker 2: So I think it's even beyond that that they had
Speaker 2: their chance to build around Mac. Yeah it was the
Speaker 2: last two years, yea, and they didn't do it. And
Speaker 2: it's a lot harder to build around. So then what
Speaker 2: you build around him?
Speaker 1: This year?
Speaker 2: He's on an expiring contract. Are you going to resign him?
Speaker 2: Are you going to risk losing him? And then you
Speaker 2: know what if the next years again that twenty twenty
Speaker 2: one class we talked about, what if they missed the
Speaker 2: next year? Kenny Pickett was the only first round pick
Speaker 2: in that class. So then you're gonna build this whole
Speaker 2: thing around Kenny Pickett? Yeah, who also probably isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I just the regardless of Mac, the clocks run out.
Speaker 2: The clocks run out to build around him because you're
Speaker 2: losing that rookie contract, you kind of have to reset that.
Speaker 1: I also we talked about and I talked about like
Speaker 1: this was the year that I wanted to find out
Speaker 1: about Mac. And I understand that we can have excuses.
Speaker 1: Offensive line has been horrible, the receivers are also mid
Speaker 1: or limited or whatever you want to call it. And
Speaker 1: Bill O'Brien hasn't come in a way the magic wand
Speaker 1: and fixed off all these issues, right, so you have
Speaker 1: all the excuses. I think dan Orlovsky said New England
Speaker 1: is currently the hardest team in the league to play
Speaker 1: quarterback for probably right, He's probably it's close. Carolina is
Speaker 1: pretty bad too, all right, Yeah, But regardless, it's probably
Speaker 1: pretty close. They're bottom five you play, So the only
Speaker 1: team where it's worse is that the only team that's
Speaker 1: yet to win a game yet, this Carolina. And then
Speaker 1: like I tend to say no to the Giants just
Speaker 1: because I love Dable, but the Giants offensive line is
Speaker 1: a train wreck, So maybe the Giants are up there
Speaker 1: as well. But regardless of all of that, I still
Speaker 1: think that you have seen you can isolate the quarterback
Speaker 1: play enough that you can see where the warts are
Speaker 1: in Mac Jones's game, and I think both of us
Speaker 1: regardless of how like the nature versus nurture argument of
Speaker 1: how we got here with Mac Jones, I'm not sold.
Speaker 1: This is as down on Mac Jones as I've probably
Speaker 1: been since they drafted him. This is in terms of
Speaker 1: my confidence level that you can build around Mac Jones
Speaker 1: and be not just a productive offense, but a winning
Speaker 1: football team with Mac Jones as your quarterback. This is
Speaker 1: probably as down on him as a player as I've been.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel about that. I just
Speaker 1: I'm down on the whole situation. It's not even just
Speaker 1: him as a play again.
Speaker 2: I go back to that thing where, even if you
Speaker 2: did want to give him another year one, unless you're
Speaker 2: overhauling the coaching staff on the front office, where's the
Speaker 2: belief that that's what's going to happen. Because last year
Speaker 2: we all sat here and said, you know, yeah, we
Speaker 2: know they haven't really invested on offense before.
Speaker 1: But it's as clear as day this year that they
Speaker 1: have to.
Speaker 2: Do it, and they didn't do it. And even if
Speaker 2: you move on and it's somebody else who is willing
Speaker 2: to commit to it, then what happens then he plays
Speaker 2: the fourth year, are you picking up his option? All right,
Speaker 2: that's two years and then what are you extending him?
Speaker 1: What if not?
Speaker 2: If he's still not good? The window to figure it out,
Speaker 2: we're years.
Speaker 1: One and two. Yeah, and they didn't use those years
Speaker 1: to figure it out. So do you feel like you
Speaker 1: have a definitive like I I in terms of like
Speaker 1: I get I just said we're gonna see the whole
Speaker 1: picture right yeah, but right now this second, do you
Speaker 1: feel like you have enough information to figure that out? No?
Speaker 1: I'm close.
Speaker 2: No, because if, like I, if you're gonna tell me
Speaker 2: that there's gonna be another coaching staff in here next year,
Speaker 2: another GM, then maybe there's an argument for it.
Speaker 1: But short of short.
Speaker 2: Of anything spectacular, I feel like they're just at the
Speaker 2: point where the the timeline for rebuild. And actually talk
Speaker 2: to somebody who works not not even more, but used
Speaker 2: to work in the NFL front office about this. With
Speaker 2: the fifty year option, everything and every team's a little different,
Speaker 2: but generally the timeline for rebuild is there's what you
Speaker 2: call year zero, which is you're bad. You're just bad,
Speaker 2: you're overhauling the roster. That was right exactly, Yep. Then
Speaker 2: you draft the quarter you have year one. The goal
Speaker 2: in year one is to figure out if the quarterback
Speaker 2: you've drafted as an NFL quarterback or not to what
Speaker 2: extent you don't have to know, but like, is this
Speaker 2: the guy We're going to move forward with a lot
Speaker 2: of teams never even get past that. Yeah, but it
Speaker 2: felt like, you know, year two if and this is
Speaker 2: all assuming you check the box from the year before,
Speaker 2: Year two is can you make the playoffs? Can you
Speaker 2: just get in the dance? Can you win enough games?
Speaker 2: Can you beat a couple of good teams while you're
Speaker 2: in there? Year three in your year three is then
Speaker 2: can you be a contender? And you're building this up
Speaker 2: around the quarchampionship window? So year three, I think is
Speaker 2: can you contend? All right, I contend? How I heard it?
Speaker 2: Can you contend for your division? You should be a
Speaker 2: a division contender. You should win a playoff game. Okay,
Speaker 2: year four and five, that's where you win.
Speaker 1: The top championship win. That's championship windows. Maybe instead of
Speaker 1: championship window, I should say contending contending window.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're you're you're not like a championship favorite, but
Speaker 2: all right, championship contender, yeah, they were ahead of schedule
Speaker 2: with Mac. They were where you should be after year
Speaker 2: two in year one, and then they went backwards. And
Speaker 2: so right now, based on that timeline, this year they
Speaker 2: should be an out. They should be a contender for
Speaker 2: the division and outside contender for the super Bowl. Next
Speaker 2: year they should be a super Bowl contender.
Speaker 1: Yikes. Do you see them getting there?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: And that's where I'm like, all right, you got to
Speaker 1: reset the process. Got it all right? Kevin is in
Speaker 1: Burlington and they're going to get up to three up,
Speaker 1: three down? What's up? Kevin?
Speaker 5: Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. I want to
Speaker 5: make the case of I want to make the case
Speaker 5: of Belichick really had a well thought out plan for
Speaker 5: the offense, but it just wasn't able to implement it,
Speaker 5: because I think the offensive problem is really date back
Speaker 5: to when Brady and Josh were still here. If you
Speaker 5: remember in twenty nineteen, they started eight to zero, but
Speaker 5: the offense really wasn't good and it ultimately sank that team.
Speaker 5: And I think it's at that part Belichick wanted to
Speaker 5: transition away from the Irah Pergin system because Brady was
Speaker 5: leaving and Scarnaki was leaving, and I think he wanted
Speaker 5: a more consistent running game, and it was very difficult
Speaker 5: at that time to on board new receivers because I
Speaker 5: think college was more spread RPO and NFL was running
Speaker 5: a out of Shanahan. So if you remember, in that offseason,
Speaker 5: they brought in Jed Fish as the key coach, and
Speaker 5: Jed was he spent time with Mike Shanahan, he spent
Speaker 5: time with Sean McVay, and that's when they brought in
Speaker 5: Kim Newton. But unfortunately that was also the off season
Speaker 5: of COVID, so I think that was really really impacted,
Speaker 5: you know, any kind of new philosophical install and then
Speaker 5: Jed was hired away from the University of Arizona as
Speaker 5: the head coach before the season even ended. And then
Speaker 5: if you look, you know, last year with Patrica, they
Speaker 5: were still trying to run you know, Shanahan's zones schemes.
Speaker 5: So I think, you know, ultimately it's this failure to
Speaker 5: transition to the new offensive system that's the root cause
Speaker 5: of the offensive problems, and the offenses of like Ellie Wise,
Speaker 5: Josh Daniels, and Bill O'Brien are very difficult to run
Speaker 5: successfully in the modern NFL. I think until this transition happens.
Speaker 5: I'm worried that our office will continue to crush this team,
Speaker 5: regardless of the types of players that they have.
Speaker 1: Thanks thanks for the call, Kevin. Yeah, it made a
Speaker 1: lot of really good points and things that we've touched on.
Speaker 1: You know, we talked a lot about like the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two draft and how a lot of those players
Speaker 1: were kind of built more for Shanahan offense. You know,
Speaker 1: athletic guard, speed receiver, speedback, right like, those are some
Speaker 1: of those picks that were made to suit. That my
Speaker 1: whole thing. And it's not to disagree with Kevin necessarily
Speaker 1: because I agree with him that a big part of
Speaker 1: their offensive failures were the systemic changes that they made
Speaker 1: that have not taken hold right that they've tried to
Speaker 1: make and they haven't worked. I've been saying a lot
Speaker 1: this week and in general, but this week especially about
Speaker 1: how annoyed I am that they ditched the full back
Speaker 1: and just don't have a fullback on the roster anymore.
Speaker 1: That to me, I think was a misstep. We talk
Speaker 1: about like all these types of moves. I agree. Now.
Speaker 1: The one point that I would push back a little
Speaker 1: bit on on that being the entire reason. H if
Speaker 1: you had good players, I don't think it would matter.
Speaker 2: Right, And that that to me. If you want to
Speaker 2: install this new offense, fine, go out and get players
Speaker 2: to run it. And it just all comes back to
Speaker 2: that if you ever invested, if you had real talent
Speaker 2: on offense, I don't care if you're running and Erhard
Speaker 2: Perkins West Coast spread RPO. If you have you know,
Speaker 2: Stefan Diggs and the Buffalo Bills offense, you're probably gonna
Speaker 2: be a pretty good offense, right right.
Speaker 1: I So I agree that maybe they miscalculated on a
Speaker 1: lot of on a lot of different elements, be trying
Speaker 1: to be more Shanahan like, and that's why this all
Speaker 1: came apart in a sense. But I still think that
Speaker 1: that's getting even for me getting a little too caught
Speaker 1: up in the x's and o's instead of the jimmy's
Speaker 1: and jokes. Yeah all right, Uh, let's do three up,
Speaker 1: three down, and then we'll take a few more of
Speaker 1: these fun calls before we wrap.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: In classic blowout fashion, Alex, I did two up, five down,
Speaker 1: because you know, you get blown out like that, you
Speaker 1: don't get more than two. That's my rule. So let's
Speaker 1: start with the positives. I'll start here because I kind
Speaker 1: of mentioned him already first out of the game, first
Speaker 1: up in the game, Riley Reef. I thought Riley Reef
Speaker 1: was a lot better in this game than what they
Speaker 1: put out there at guard. A one hurry allowed and
Speaker 1: happened late with Bailey Zappy in the game in the
Speaker 1: fourth quarter. I thought he was really good in his reps,
Speaker 1: run blocking. I think he shows some leverage, some toughness,
Speaker 1: some ability to move guys in the run game. Pass protection,
Speaker 1: he's been way, way, way better than anything they've thrown
Speaker 1: out there in pass protection at guard. Much better moving
Speaker 1: side to side, much better anchor. I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued.
Speaker 1: This is a good player that they could film. I
Speaker 1: should say for Riley Reef, and maybe they have a
Speaker 1: good player. I'll go to Mario Douglas.
Speaker 2: He got open on that one route and he made
Speaker 2: a nice catch and I mean, am I wrong?
Speaker 1: No? And he got hurt, but he got hurt on No,
Speaker 1: maybe he would have done more. That's not his fault. No,
Speaker 1: maybe he would have done more. I don't know, he's enough.
Speaker 1: I feel like two weeks in a row, we had
Speaker 1: what Damario Douglas is enough for one catch that he
Speaker 1: made in the game.
Speaker 2: It's almost like he should be playing more. Well, I
Speaker 2: guess like he couldn't have played more last week.
Speaker 1: But number two up Anthony Jennings. I thought Anthony Jenks
Speaker 1: was good in this game. Four stops in the run, game,
Speaker 1: set a good edge, had a hurry. Nobody had multiple
Speaker 1: hurries in this game because the Patriots had no pass rush.
Speaker 1: So the fact of the matter is is Anthony Jennings
Speaker 1: is one hurry, tied for the team lead. So tied
Speaker 1: for the team lead in hurries. Four stops against the run.
Speaker 1: Is Anthony Jennings a difference to making edge? No? Can
Speaker 1: he set the edge of the defense and play the
Speaker 1: run on first down? Yes? And for right now, that's
Speaker 1: gonna be how they're gonna have to survive without Judon right,
Speaker 1: everybody's gonna have to have a roll, everybody's gonna have
Speaker 1: to be hyper specific to that role, and they're gonna
Speaker 1: have to patch it together. So I have Anthony Jennings.
Speaker 2: I'm doing this for the I think the are we
Speaker 2: can around picking this guy at this point. I'm probably
Speaker 2: just doing it to annoy people more than anything.
Speaker 1: Else.
Speaker 2: Miles Bryant, Oh my god, had that big hit on
Speaker 2: Mike Thomas and he's stepping up making he's like their
Speaker 2: third highest graded run defender right now on PFF. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's had like I think it's maybe says more about
Speaker 2: the defense than him, but he's been one of their
Speaker 2: best defensive players this year.
Speaker 1: Not bad, not bad. Miles Brian has uh turned in
Speaker 1: to a player that fans poke at all the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll say this with all sincerity. If you're still picking
Speaker 1: on Miles Brian and saying that Miles Brian is bad,
Speaker 1: you're not watching the games, right, You're not your your
Speaker 1: your priors have brought have blinded you, and you're not
Speaker 1: watching the games this year. Is he prime Stefan Gilmore? Hell? No?
Speaker 1: Is he a serviceable nickelback? Yes? Yeah? All right? Do
Speaker 1: you have any more ups? No? Good? Good? I've you're
Speaker 1: gonna hate what my downs are too. Number one down? Okay?
Speaker 1: Mac Jones, Yeah, Mac Jones, number one down. I wanted
Speaker 1: to save this for three up, three down and talk
Speaker 1: about MCA a little, but here Mac is a down.
Speaker 1: I think what the problem is is with Mac. The
Speaker 1: three biggest things that I see that are wrong with
Speaker 1: Mac right now. Number one, first and foremost is he
Speaker 1: is Sam Darnold seeing ghosts out there. He's seeing ghosts
Speaker 1: even when it's a clean pocket. It's not a clean
Speaker 1: pocket to Mac Jones right now. His footwork's all over
Speaker 1: the place, his eyes are out down on the rush.
Speaker 1: He is feeling pressure that doesn't always exist, and that's
Speaker 1: a big, big, big problem. He had a couple of
Speaker 1: plays in this game where if he had just hung
Speaker 1: in the pocket and stayed with the play instead of
Speaker 1: being sped up and making a quick decision because of
Speaker 1: the of the panic meter with the pressure, he had
Speaker 1: some open reads in this game, but the ball is
Speaker 1: coming out so quickly or not at all because he
Speaker 1: was panicking because of the pressure. So that I don't
Speaker 1: know how you fix that. I And when I say fix,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you fix that. In season he
Speaker 1: might be able to go to the offseason, take a
Speaker 1: step back from football and reset and go six months
Speaker 1: without getting hit, and that might reset him mentally to
Speaker 1: the point where he can come in next season and
Speaker 1: not be sped up and panicked under pressure. But in season,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you necessarily fix that. And the
Speaker 1: other thing. I you know, I mentioned the footwork, I
Speaker 1: mentioned the eyes, you know, going down at the rush,
Speaker 1: not seeing the reds. I just really think that that's
Speaker 1: a broken quarterback. And I'm at the point now with Mac.
Speaker 1: And I don't know how you feel about it, but
Speaker 1: I'm at the point now with Mac that I don't
Speaker 1: know if you can put Humpty Dumpty back together again.
Speaker 1: I think that this is a guy that once you
Speaker 1: start to lose it in that respect, and you start
Speaker 1: feeling pressure that doesn't actually exist, and you start being
Speaker 1: unsettled with your footwork and like throw with your feet
Speaker 1: parallel to the line of scrimmage and not stepping into throws.
Speaker 1: You know, a couple examples, like the Time Montgomery interception.
Speaker 1: You can argue that a good receiver it hit him
Speaker 1: right in, catches that ball and shields the safety and
Speaker 1: makes the catch. The ball is a lollipop. You gotta
Speaker 1: step into the ball and throw it. If he steps
Speaker 1: into the ball and throws it with some velo instead
Speaker 1: of just arking it up there to Time Montgomery, the
Speaker 1: safety is not even a factor. Right, Like if he
Speaker 1: steps and rips it, then Time Montgomery catches it on
Speaker 1: the run and cuts in in front of the face
Speaker 1: of the safety and never gets hit. But the ball
Speaker 1: took too long to get there, and it causes these
Speaker 1: types of interceptions. That's not because he was panicked in
Speaker 1: the pocket necessarily, It's because he doesn't have any confidence
Speaker 1: to step up in the pocket and step into a
Speaker 1: throw and let it rip. Those throws need they need
Speaker 1: to have more mustard on them, They need to have
Speaker 1: more velocity on them. I just I'm not sure how
Speaker 1: you put Mac back together at this point. All right,
Speaker 1: that leads perfectly into my first down. The offense, it
Speaker 1: just Mac was panicked. He was rushing.
Speaker 2: They couldn't get anything blocked, they couldn't run the ball.
Speaker 2: Nobody was getting off open. Is there any part of
Speaker 2: that game you look at. I know you you sort
Speaker 2: of liked what Riley Reef did, but yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: as a whole, the game plan was bad. It was
Speaker 2: all bad. It's a bury the ball game. For the offense,
Speaker 2: they weren't good enough. They just weren't good enough. I
Speaker 2: know people are gonna say that this is me excusing Mac,
Speaker 2: especially because you just said Mac is your first down.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's no, it's it's all of it. It's it's
Speaker 2: it's Mac's bad. The offense is bad, the pass catches
Speaker 2: are bad, the run games bad, and it's they all
Speaker 2: compound when another. Yeah, and it's not the kind of
Speaker 2: game where you can single one person out, I think
Speaker 2: and say, this person had a bad game.
Speaker 1: It was all bad. Their offensive film is itster Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is disgusting to watch. It is an absolute abject disaster,
Speaker 1: to the point where I always watched the Patriots stuff
Speaker 1: to Patriots stuff. Then I turned the page. Now that
Speaker 1: the Raiders played on Monday night, so that threw off
Speaker 1: my schedule a little bit. Yeah, regardless, thank you, thank
Speaker 1: you for feeling bad for me. Regardless, the Raiders and
Speaker 1: the Packers played that Monday night game. What was the
Speaker 1: final score, seventeen to thirteen, seventeen thirteen, something like that.
Speaker 1: So they both because the Raiders haven't scored twenty once
Speaker 1: this year, they neither team scored a lot of points.
Speaker 1: That's the point. Their offensive film is fifty times better
Speaker 1: than what the Patriots put on film. Yeah, they were
Speaker 1: just turned the ball over and they didn't score. But
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter was is that it was
Speaker 1: synced up. It looked like an NFL offense right, Like,
Speaker 1: guys are running routes, bockers were blocking, quarterback was throwing.
Speaker 1: It was all on time. It just they're not very
Speaker 1: good right now, right, So they didn't hit on enough
Speaker 1: plays consistently to put up a lot of points. But
Speaker 1: if you put the Raiders offense that they're going up
Speaker 1: against this week and the Patriots offense side by side,
Speaker 1: the ugliness of the Patriots offensive film compared to the Raiders,
Speaker 1: it would be night and day to you. I mean,
Speaker 1: it is a disaster right now for the Patriots offense.
Speaker 1: So I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I had a
Speaker 1: few more specific guys though, Okay, Number two Antonio Mafi. So,
Speaker 1: Antonio Mafi has tools. I'm excited about some of the
Speaker 1: things I've seen from Antonio Mafi. I think he's got
Speaker 1: NFL play strength. I think he's got NFL hand strength.
Speaker 1: I think he's got NFL leverage and balance and ability
Speaker 1: to block and posture and all that kind of stuff. Like,
Speaker 1: I think he's got NFL tools. I put Antonio Mafi
Speaker 1: as a down, but I really mean Adrian Clem. Adrian
Speaker 1: Clem's got to start making his money on this team,
Speaker 1: in this organization. A guy like Antonio Mafi has one
Speaker 1: achilles heel right now. He can't pick up a stunt.
Speaker 1: He can't pass off a stunt. It's not physical, it's
Speaker 1: not foot speed in this game as much as it
Speaker 1: is mental of not seeing it right. He's not seeing
Speaker 1: the stunt coming. He's not mentally processing line movement up front.
Speaker 1: To me, that points more to coaching. This is a
Speaker 1: common problem for Antonio Maffi going back to the summer,
Speaker 1: which means that they've been coaching him up on it
Speaker 1: since the summer and he's not getting better. And at
Speaker 1: some point in time, Adrian Clme's got to start making
Speaker 1: some people better on the offensive line. They have to
Speaker 1: start looking like a five man unit on the offensive line.
Speaker 1: And don't don't give me like they haven't played enough together,
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to hear that these guys have
Speaker 1: like him and Trent Brown have basically been out there
Speaker 1: since since pad practice has started. Okay, Like we're not
Speaker 1: talking about him working next to a guy that hasn't
Speaker 1: played at all, like a cold strange or something like that.
Speaker 1: At some point in time, the line has to have
Speaker 1: an upward trajectory. There needs to be some development for
Speaker 1: the younger players on this line, like for example, City
Speaker 1: So he guard tackle whatever. Yeah, the fact that City
Speaker 1: so cannot even be active on game day when you're
Speaker 1: rolling Vederian Low out there at right tackle as an
Speaker 1: indictment on the coach. Because he's a fourth round pick,
Speaker 1: he has some tools, he's an athletic kid. He tested
Speaker 1: really really well in the combine, so he's got some
Speaker 1: raw ability. And the fact that he's not better than
Speaker 1: Vederian Low to me points to coaching and development. So
Speaker 1: whether you want to put Mafia as a down or
Speaker 1: Clem as a down, it's one and the same to me,
Speaker 1: Antonio Mafi Adrian Clem, that's my second down. Mine is
Speaker 1: the defense. I think you see whe I'm going with this.
Speaker 2: You look at the drives the Saints had early in
Speaker 2: the game, eight plays, sixty two yards, four sixteen, five
Speaker 2: thirty six. It's hot knife through butter and this this
Speaker 2: is a quarterback that had a bad arm, a bad
Speaker 2: throw on the shoulder. Yeah, a team that struggled to
Speaker 2: move the ball the we end. Look, maybe he's healthier,
Speaker 2: but a team that struggled to move the ball the
Speaker 2: week before. Honestly, you look at it, I know people
Speaker 2: think probably could have gotten worse. They were like three
Speaker 2: or four deep balls that either Car didn't throw to
Speaker 2: Olave or he did and Olave.
Speaker 1: Just missed them. There was one touchdown that ol remember,
Speaker 1: he dropped it Brian.
Speaker 2: So as bad as it looked, they got bailed out
Speaker 2: a couple times by the Saints. UH coverage didn't line up,
Speaker 2: pass rush never got home. They weren't able to put
Speaker 2: any pressure on Car, which they had to do to
Speaker 2: win this game. Alvin Kamara is making guys missing the
Speaker 2: open field, that that'll happen, but they just didn't seem
Speaker 2: like they almost seemed caught off guard by the way
Speaker 2: Alvin Kamara was used in this game.
Speaker 1: Defense down. Okay, so I have a position group on
Speaker 1: the defense, in particular the safeties. Yeah, that's fair. If
Speaker 1: I had to pick one, Yeah, that's fair all of them. So,
Speaker 1: Kyle Dugger, where are you? M I a missing an action?
Speaker 1: Kyle Dugger made some plays in the flat right, made
Speaker 1: some tackles like Derek Carr throwing late to the flat
Speaker 1: and Kyle Dugger made some tackles. Cool there. This goes
Speaker 1: back to something that we talked about a few minutes ago.
Speaker 1: With the personnel. They always used to have a plan,
Speaker 1: right like Nate Solder to Matt liked to Nate's older
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna use that because it's an easy one
Speaker 1: to use, Matt liked to Nate's Solder. They always used
Speaker 1: to have a plan. How many years? How many years?
Speaker 1: Is the same thing with tackle? How many years, Alex
Speaker 1: have We talked about free safety's center fielders in the draft,
Speaker 1: saying at some point you are gonna have to take
Speaker 1: Devin McCarty's successor, at some point you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: get somebody in the building. And both of us were
Speaker 1: lockstep that we prefer Devin to actually school this kid right,
Speaker 1: like teach them. And they ignored it. They ignored it,
Speaker 1: they ignored it, they ignored it. And now they're in
Speaker 1: a position where they have box safeties that aren't deep
Speaker 1: middle safeties playing center field in a single, high heavy defense.
Speaker 1: And Jabriel Peppers, Kyle Duggar, Adrian Phillips, those guys, it's
Speaker 1: not their fault. They're playing out a position, all of them.
Speaker 1: So uh Shaheed Rashid Shahied, Yeah, catches that big pass.
Speaker 1: Adrian Phillips is like the buzz defender. He lets him
Speaker 1: go by, he leaves Jabrill Peppers on him on an island.
Speaker 1: Jabrill Peppers can't pick him up because he's not Devin
Speaker 1: mccordy in his prime. Big play Chris o'lave is touchdown.
Speaker 1: Kyle Duggar, where are you going, dude? There's a route
Speaker 1: on the right side line. I think it's Michael Thomas.
Speaker 1: It's like a one on one, like fade back shoulder thing.
Speaker 1: And then there's one route in the middle of the
Speaker 1: field and it's Chris a Lava and Kyle Dugger allows
Speaker 1: Derek Carr to I manipulate him out of the passing window.
Speaker 1: Derek Carr looks right, so Kyle Dugger moves right, and
Speaker 1: then Derek Carr immediately comes back left and hits Chris
Speaker 1: a Lava. There's nobody else in the area for Kyle
Speaker 1: Dugger to go to right like it's a There's no
Speaker 1: route that's threatening his zone for him to worry about.
Speaker 1: Their free safety play is abysmal. It's been terrible, and
Speaker 1: all of it goes back like this is why I
Speaker 1: keep on going back to the head guy. All this
Speaker 1: goes back to the fact that they never addressed a
Speaker 1: successor to Devin mccordy, and now they're in a position
Speaker 1: where they don't have one and they're stuck, and it's
Speaker 1: been ugly at times at free safety.
Speaker 2: It's something we talked about or learning the show. How
Speaker 2: many guys have left. It's not just on offense. How
Speaker 2: many guys have left and just left and there was
Speaker 2: no plan to replace him. You know, whether it's on
Speaker 2: offensive tackle, at running back, at receiver, it's safety, at linebacker.
Speaker 2: We've seen it a lot over the past few years
Speaker 2: in free safety. Certainly that list. I don't know what
Speaker 2: they thought, maybe like Jabrill Peppers could play it or something,
Speaker 2: or Jalen Mills could play it. But he's not even
Speaker 2: playing like he's the most logical free safety. Yeah, roster,
Speaker 2: he's not playing.
Speaker 1: So Jabrill Peppers and Kyle Duggar if you want them
Speaker 1: to play center field and like a like a coverage
Speaker 1: rotation where you're running some sort of exotic and the
Speaker 1: center fielder drops out of center field and the robber
Speaker 1: drops back like it's some sort of rotation post snap. Sure, fine,
Speaker 1: as like a stagnant single high safety like Devin used
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, can't happen, like you can't have that guy.
Speaker 1: And they had options, like there was options in the draft,
Speaker 1: option in the draft. Mayor Taylor Rapp was here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: another guy you could do it, all right, you got
Speaker 1: you want to guess special team? Yes, yeah, there was.
Speaker 1: This is pretty clear. Uh, this is just good.
Speaker 2: I mean they're not thirty four nothing. You're not wrong
Speaker 2: Chad Ryland. Look, I'm conflicting on Chad Ryland. We'll start
Speaker 2: with Chad Ryland. Seven of his eight kicks had been
Speaker 2: from forty eight or longer. He's fifty percent on all
Speaker 2: his kicks. Yeah, Uh, seven of his eight have been
Speaker 2: from forty eight or longer. There are long kicks, so
Speaker 2: you're not gonna have You're not gonna hit ninety percent
Speaker 2: from forty eight or longer.
Speaker 1: Nobody is justin.
Speaker 2: Tucker doesn't, but you're here to He was drafted because
Speaker 2: he's a big leg. He should be hitting some of
Speaker 2: these and he's not.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: The snaps and holds haven't been great at times. There
Speaker 2: was another bad snap this week, this time on a punt. Yeah,
Speaker 2: almost so went out the back of the end zone.
Speaker 2: Bryce bearing it. Look he got it going later in
Speaker 2: the game. He was good later in the game. But
Speaker 2: he shanked his first two punts. Those both led to
Speaker 2: short field for the Saints and boom, just like that,
Speaker 2: you fall in the hole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was concerning.
Speaker 2: And then you had bro Peppers try to like pick
Speaker 2: up a punt that was bouncing and fumbled it and
Speaker 2: didn't end up turning it over, but very much almost did.
Speaker 1: In time, Montgomery ran two kicks out of the en
Speaker 1: zone that he didn't need to run out of the enzone.
Speaker 1: So the whole thing, it just didn't and.
Speaker 2: Right, exactly, well, no, he's at Ryland not run Bear
Speaker 2: during the second half was good. But it's just like
Speaker 2: you're seeing on offense where it just looks like guys
Speaker 2: are trying to do or being asked to do more
Speaker 2: than what's realistic because they're compensating for what's going on
Speaker 2: around them.
Speaker 1: We've talked about a lot on offense.
Speaker 2: It exists a little bit on defense, maybe more now
Speaker 2: with some of the injuries. You're seeing that pop up
Speaker 2: on special teams as well.
Speaker 1: All right, two more quickly, all right, Vaderian low like
Speaker 1: he's just gonna live on the downs list, right, Like
Speaker 1: it's just it's not good enough. It's just not good enough.
Speaker 1: And it's not his faulty as playing. So this kind
Speaker 1: of goes to my next one, but it's not his
Speaker 1: faulty as playing. They should have better options than Vaderian Low.
Speaker 1: Your fourth round pick should be a better option. Leyow
Speaker 1: Collin should be a better option. Like, they should have
Speaker 1: a better option, but they don't. Yeah, and he gave it.
Speaker 1: He's gave up another five pressures in this game. He
Speaker 1: has given up the most pressures in the league amongst tackles.
Speaker 1: Alex and he's only played four games and he's still
Speaker 1: giving up the most. Yeah. Okay, so he is the
Speaker 1: worst right tackle. He's the worst tackle in football, period,
Speaker 1: and he's this Patriots starting right tackle. So this goes
Speaker 1: to the last one. He's on the perpetual down list.
Speaker 1: It seems like for right now, Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick
Speaker 1: on the down list significantly. He's down bad at this point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of issues with this team. Most of
Speaker 1: them are personnel driven. We've talked a lot about all
Speaker 1: of that right tackle, free safety. Some of these spots
Speaker 1: that we're talking about go back to the whole thing
Speaker 1: of what was the plan, what was the succession plan,
Speaker 1: what was the thought process? Those spots. It's now two
Speaker 1: years in a row. And this is why I lumps
Speaker 1: Vederian Lowen with Bill. It's now two years in a row.
Speaker 1: That right tackles the worst position on the Patriots roster.
Speaker 1: Worst position? Yeah, how do we not address this? How
Speaker 1: they didn't address it at all?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: Sorry? Signed? Rather, they signed Riley Reef and Calvin Anderson.
Speaker 1: That was addressing. They signed a career backup in thirty four,
Speaker 1: and they drafted a guard from Eastern Michigan and tried
Speaker 1: to make them into the mystery box again city so
Speaker 1: could be anything. He could even be at tackling. And
Speaker 1: I got this question on Twitter. I think of like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: out of McGlinchey, McGary, Jwan Taylor, Like who who's who
Speaker 1: are those guys at Orlanda Brown? Who those guys have
Speaker 1: actually played well with their new teams. It's not the point, right,
Speaker 1: it's not the point. It's not that's not how it works.
Speaker 1: Like you can't just say, oh, this guy hasn't been good,
Speaker 1: so that why why waste? Like why sign him? Yeah,
Speaker 1: of a, it would have been better than what you
Speaker 1: had and be you don't know what that player would
Speaker 1: look like in your system and in your team Bill
Speaker 1: Belichick's you can There's so many different things you can
Speaker 1: point to. You can point to end game stuff, you
Speaker 1: can point to game plan stuff, you can point to
Speaker 1: personnel decisions. It's down bad all of it. And at
Speaker 1: this point, I'm running out of things, and I can't
Speaker 1: believe I'm saying this about Bill Belichick. I'm running out
Speaker 1: of things to say that he helps this football team with.
Speaker 1: If you can tell me one thing that you really
Speaker 1: think that he is helping them contributing to winning on
Speaker 1: this football team, I'm all years.
Speaker 2: Miguel Ben's in very well time tweet right now. How
Speaker 2: many right tackles do you think Matt starting right tackles
Speaker 2: you think Mac Jones is played with with his time
Speaker 2: in the Patriots?
Speaker 1: Oh god, ten? Yes, actually, yeah, nailed it? You want to? Yes?
Speaker 1: Oh boy? Isaiah Win, yep, that's one, Godneka just yep.
Speaker 1: Marcus Cannon, Calvin Anderson, Vederian Lowe, Oh man, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Trent Brown, yep, you got one more from last year,
Speaker 1: and then it's all twenty one guys. Oh god, who's
Speaker 1: the one from last year? It's like on the tip
Speaker 1: of my tongue. It's killing me. Who is it? Connor McDermott. Ah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I knew, I knew who it was.
Speaker 2: All right, the rest justin Hran Yanni could just and
Speaker 2: Mike and Win. I said, y oh did you who
Speaker 2: did I miss?
Speaker 1: Trent Brown?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: You see your drant? Yes? Oh god, god, what a list.
Speaker 1: It's in three years, less than three years, really to
Speaker 1: and change a two and a quarter?
Speaker 2: Oh god, all right, that's a new right tackle every
Speaker 2: three games.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Who's who's your last down?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: That was it? You only have? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you have three offense defense Qecially coaching. I
Speaker 2: feel like I kind of wrapped it in with all
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: How do you like? Genuine question? Because I you know,
Speaker 1: this is what we do. Yeah, And what's up?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What do you think is wrong with Chad Ryland? Like
Speaker 1: do you think it's just simply that he's been asked
Speaker 1: to kick a lot of forty eight plus the arders
Speaker 1: and I can't say fifty plus anymore? Yeah, No, it's
Speaker 1: it's a lot of little things. I think.
Speaker 2: You know, you had the bad snaps, and first of all,
Speaker 2: you had he didn't really get a chance to kick
Speaker 2: in the preseason and it's wild, right, which that helps.
Speaker 2: You had the bad snaps, the bad field in New York,
Speaker 2: and you wonder if it all just kind of compounds,
Speaker 2: and it's like, you know, he kind of didn't have
Speaker 2: he didn't kick really in games for a few months,
Speaker 2: and then his first game action was rough. And now
Speaker 2: maybe he's in his head and he hasn't exactly had
Speaker 2: a lay up to get back going right. It's not
Speaker 2: like he's gotten like a twenty five thirty five year
Speaker 2: old five yard chip shot to sort of just see
Speaker 2: one go through. I don't think he's a bad kicker,
Speaker 2: but it's so mental at that position, and I wonder
Speaker 2: if that stuff's all just starting the layer up.
Speaker 1: Oh God, just add it to another the list of
Speaker 1: things that are not going well for this team. All right,
Speaker 1: let's get back to the phones. Dan is in New York.
Speaker 1: What's up, Dan?
Speaker 7: Hey, guys, can you hear me?
Speaker 1: Yep?
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah.
Speaker 7: So I just wanted to say that I feel like
Speaker 7: this weekend's game is pretty big in the sense that
Speaker 7: if we lose, it's just going to be spiral effect.
Speaker 7: I mean, got Buffalo in Miami after that, and then
Speaker 7: and after the Commanders and Colt is not a gimme,
Speaker 7: So going into the by potentially there's a good chance
Speaker 7: of you or two and eight, one and nine and
Speaker 7: three and seven. So at that point, do you guys
Speaker 7: think that we should embrace the full timeway. What's the
Speaker 7: status of the team then, like, are they even until
Speaker 7: we committed or yeah, very hypothetical. I think it's a
Speaker 7: good chance happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, if they're like one to nine one. Thanks
Speaker 1: for the call, Dan, so h embracing the tank, I
Speaker 1: don't really know. You know, we've talked about this in
Speaker 1: terms of like tanking comes from the top down.
Speaker 2: It's it's a goofy thing you can do as fans,
Speaker 2: but the team will never Guys on the team aren't
Speaker 2: gonna I'd say they're not gonna quit. But like, guys
Speaker 2: are still playing for future jobs, future contracts, Guys are
Speaker 2: coaching for future jobs.
Speaker 1: So I think that the biggest thing. And you know,
Speaker 1: I don't usually get into this to the to the
Speaker 1: psyche too much, but in this in these moments, you
Speaker 1: kind of have to. Yeah, and I think the biggest
Speaker 1: thing that I'm interested in when we go to to
Speaker 1: Vegas this weekend, back to Vegas again, you get to
Speaker 1: go to luxow see the beam? God, Uh buy in?
Speaker 1: Like want to will who's pulling on the rope? Because
Speaker 1: you don't lose seventy three in a two week span
Speaker 1: on talent alone. You don't lose like that on talent alone. Right,
Speaker 1: You lose on that because you're not They're not. Everybody's
Speaker 1: is giving it one hundred and ten percent. So this
Speaker 1: is a really big test in my mind because you're
Speaker 1: going to Vegas, You're going on a six hour flight
Speaker 1: across the country. Uh, you're leaving a day earlier than
Speaker 1: normal because of the long fight. So this is a
Speaker 1: little bit of like a weekend, right, It's a little
Speaker 1: bit of a trip, Like we're not just going for
Speaker 1: for you know, twenty four hours and coming home. Who's
Speaker 1: who wants to play on Sunday? And is there enough
Speaker 1: guys in that locker room right now that want to
Speaker 1: play on Sunday and want to fight for the season
Speaker 1: and want to try to pull out of this where
Speaker 1: they have that kind of effort or do they lay
Speaker 1: another egg? Because if they lay another egg, then I'm
Speaker 1: starting to get with you on the fact that in
Speaker 1: season firing is on the table. If they chose some fight. Uh,
Speaker 1: and they show Gofer did they win? Like, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that that's pos Like, then that's showing you something, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: But this is to me, before we get to schemes
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do key matchups here in a second,
Speaker 1: before we get to matchups and x's and o's and
Speaker 1: game plans and things like that against the Raiders, the
Speaker 1: biggest thing is is do they even want to freaking
Speaker 1: be there or not?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's fair.
Speaker 2: I would just to the second part of that question,
Speaker 2: like what do you look for if it gets to
Speaker 2: that point?
Speaker 1: If it does? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Uh, And we kind of talked about it earlier, like
Speaker 2: how do the kids look the guys who you know
Speaker 2: are gonna be here if they reset it, Kean White,
Speaker 2: Marte Maphu, Taekwon, Thornton, Tomorrio, Douglas Kashawan, Boody, the rookie lineman. Uh,
Speaker 2: maybe Andrew Steuber gets some run like these are the
Speaker 2: Collie Cunningham. These you're just kind of looking to see,
Speaker 2: all right, are any of these guys part of the
Speaker 2: plan moving forward? Or like can any of them help
Speaker 2: you build this thing back up?
Speaker 1: Or where do you really need to go? And address. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, Gene is in South Carolina. What's up? Gene?
Speaker 3: Hey you guys hear me up?
Speaker 1: Yep, we're gould Oh.
Speaker 8: Jump speak your phone?
Speaker 3: Do you hear me?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 8: So, just I know, I'm just a fan, but it's
Speaker 8: just an idea for you guys. I was curious what
Speaker 8: you guys thought. So I know they talk about people
Speaker 8: not having or the players not having any uh any
Speaker 8: confidence in Mac, So why couldn't we You know, DeVante Parker,
Speaker 8: he's missed a couple of Condessa baskets that I think
Speaker 8: he could have caught, and he just I just didn't
Speaker 8: think he like tried like he was better last year
Speaker 8: and then juju, I mean, obviously just missed communication. We
Speaker 8: can go on. I listen to you guys talk about
Speaker 8: it all the time. The tight ends work with work
Speaker 8: with him. Why not just bring cunning him up and
Speaker 8: use Booty and you just Douglas when he's not hurt
Speaker 8: and and just go with these younger receivers and try
Speaker 8: to build something on that. But Mac, he's like Mac
Speaker 8: has a better relationship with the younger.
Speaker 1: Receivers anyway, Okay, yeah, thanks for the college. Interesting. I
Speaker 1: don't know about the younger receivers versus older receivers thing.
Speaker 1: I will tell you this. If your idea of bringing
Speaker 1: Malik Cunningham up is to put in a Taysom Hill
Speaker 1: package and just give you that option on offense to
Speaker 1: maybe run him a little bit like that, fine, I
Speaker 1: have no interest in MALIEK Cunningham playing receiver in the game. None.
Speaker 1: If you want him to play wildcat quarterback and add
Speaker 1: that element, because you can't move the ball anyway, so
Speaker 1: you might as well try it, I can hear that.
Speaker 1: But if you're asking me to play Milie Cuttingham at
Speaker 1: wide receiver, I'm out. That's where I'm at. Right, Do
Speaker 1: you disagree?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not opposed to the idea, like long term
Speaker 2: of him being a wide receiver, but I just from
Speaker 2: what we saw in the summer, he's not close enough
Speaker 2: he had to play that position in the NFL game.
Speaker 1: Not even close. All right, let's get into the Raiders
Speaker 1: a little bit. This Raiders game, I think is in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways like the Saints and that, and
Speaker 1: I feel like this is true almost every week. Not
Speaker 1: to pick on a scap here, but if you were
Speaker 1: to like rank the rosters, Raiders have a better roster.
Speaker 1: They have better They have a better top of the
Speaker 1: roster than the Patriots. The Patriots don't have a Max Crosby.
Speaker 1: Well they do, but he's hurt. The Patriots don't have
Speaker 1: a DeVante Adams, correct they I don't think they have
Speaker 1: a Josh Jacobs, No, sob Myers, and they don't have
Speaker 1: Jacoby Myers, so they don't. The Raiders have better top
Speaker 1: end talent than you do, so in that respect, it
Speaker 1: makes it tough for me to pick the Patriots in
Speaker 1: this game because I think pretty much everything else is equal,
Speaker 1: but they have a few more game changers than you do,
Speaker 1: and that's what's going to tilt the scales to the Raiders.
Speaker 1: With that being said, though I do think that this
Speaker 1: is a winnable game. It comes back to what I
Speaker 1: said earlier about do they want to win? Do they
Speaker 1: even want to be there? That's gonna be a factor
Speaker 1: I think in general with the Raiders, there's there's two
Speaker 1: things that really stand out to me. One, obviously, Max
Speaker 1: Crosby is one of the best players in the league.
Speaker 1: His film is just ridiculous, Like the guy combines the
Speaker 1: relentless motor with skill and block anticipation, and the ability
Speaker 1: to against the run and the pass like he's I
Speaker 1: think that's what makes him so rare is that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of guys that can rush the passer in
Speaker 1: the NFL a lot. There's not a lot of guys
Speaker 1: that can play the run as well as Max Crosby can.
Speaker 1: He does both of them at an elite level. He
Speaker 1: completely ruined the game for the Green Bay Packers on
Speaker 1: Monday Night. I think he did it for Steelers too
Speaker 1: the other week. Yeah, completely took the game over. So
Speaker 1: he can do that against his patriotsy, he certainly can
Speaker 1: against this offensive line. So that's number one. And number
Speaker 1: two to me is that I think that if you
Speaker 1: get too caught up in all the weapons that the
Speaker 1: Raiders have, you are gonna get overwhelmed by trying to
Speaker 1: solve plug holes defensively. Uh, it's Adams is tough, right,
Speaker 1: Like Adams the best receiver in football, maybe you know
Speaker 1: he's top five. Certainly looks a little compromise to me
Speaker 1: with that shoulder like I didn't think he looked like
Speaker 1: he was as good. And that's where other guys get
Speaker 1: open off of that. So then you have that, and
Speaker 1: then you have the run game, which I've always touted McDaniels.
Speaker 1: I still even though there are numbers and their production
Speaker 1: isn't quite as good as last year in the Run game,
Speaker 1: I still think that they design it really well and
Speaker 1: Josh Jacob is a good runner. So you have the
Speaker 1: run Game and then you also have their their their slots,
Speaker 1: Jacoby Meyers, Hunter, renfro Uh, those guys. So I think
Speaker 1: if you try to play, you know, the game plan
Speaker 1: is we're gonna till coverage to Adams and we're gonna
Speaker 1: do this and we're gonna stop to run with you know,
Speaker 1: seven in the box, and like, I think that you're
Speaker 1: gonna get overwhelmed by trying to plug holes. The one
Speaker 1: thing that you can do. They'll like, you know, to
Speaker 1: use a Star Wars reference, because you know a big
Speaker 1: Star Wars guy the uh the spot and the death
Speaker 1: Star that you can shoot at. Well, that's appropriate because
Speaker 1: as we call it, their stadium is the death Star.
Speaker 1: You maybe Mac canhelp me. What's it called, like the
Speaker 1: thing that that they shoot in ventilats that ventilationship. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the ventilations shaft of the Raiders death Star is the
Speaker 1: quarterback is Jimmy Jimmy. Jimmy Garoppolo is beatable, right like
Speaker 1: you can you can beat no but Evan. But Evan
Speaker 1: he's a winner. Have you seen his record? So Jimmy,
Speaker 1: uh is? The game plan against Jimmy is very very
Speaker 1: cut and dry, right like he his his splits. Whether
Speaker 1: you want to watch the film or you want to
Speaker 1: look at the numbers, his his splits tell the story.
Speaker 1: Pressure no pressure in breakers all other rats. If you
Speaker 1: take away the middle of the field and you pressure
Speaker 1: the quarterback, he will self destruct. Yeah, point blank. So
Speaker 1: in my mind, in this game, it's all about throwing
Speaker 1: off Jimmy because if you just let him sit back
Speaker 1: there and he let him throw his digs and his
Speaker 1: slants and his you know, crossing routes and things like that,
Speaker 1: their weapons are going to move the ball. Their weapons
Speaker 1: are good. They're gonna move the ball. If you get
Speaker 1: Jimmy to throw up all over himself, then you have
Speaker 1: a chance. So if I'm the Patriots, I'm game planning Jimmy,
Speaker 1: I'm pressuring the quarterback. I'm this is basically what they
Speaker 1: did last year. Yeah, I'm I'm packing the box in
Speaker 1: the middle of the field, right because that kills two
Speaker 1: birds with one stokeus top the run and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: take away the middle of the field and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: make Jimmy Garoppolo beat me down the field and outside
Speaker 1: the numbers like that. That's where I'm gonna make him
Speaker 1: beat me. And if he does, you tip your cap
Speaker 1: and unfortunately you lost, right But that but that's the
Speaker 1: way that the cookie crumbles.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: That That's where I'm at with this Raiders game. I
Speaker 1: think it's winnable. I'm not picking the Patriots because they
Speaker 1: I picked the Patriots the last two weeks for some
Speaker 1: God only knows what reason, and they embarrass me both times.
Speaker 1: So I'm not taking the Patriots. But if I'm the
Speaker 1: Patriots in this game, I worry about how can I
Speaker 1: I I might not be able to stop DeVante Adams, right,
Speaker 1: like Chrischi Gonzales, I don't have a Durell Reeves Stefan
Speaker 1: Gilmour to go out there and stop DeVante Adams. But
Speaker 1: if the guy who's throwing the ball at Devonte Adams
Speaker 1: can't get him the ball, then I'm in in good shape.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I isn't isn't the game playing the
Speaker 2: same against the Patriots. Yeah, right, and and that's where
Speaker 2: all right, So you gotta pressure the quarterback, you got
Speaker 2: to take away the number one receiver, you gotta take
Speaker 2: away the middle of the field. Patriots might be better,
Speaker 2: Quip takeaway the middle of field with their safeties. But
Speaker 2: you're talking about Max Crosby and Marcus Peters versus josh
Speaker 2: U Chay and Chay Jackson essentially Devonte Adams. You mean no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm saying the two guys. If both defenses are gonna
Speaker 2: go with the same thing, right, it's who's going to
Speaker 2: execute their assignments at a higher level. Is it Max
Speaker 2: Crosby and Marcus Peters or is it josh Uchay.
Speaker 4: And j C.
Speaker 1: Jackson. Yeah, And if that's the key, j C. Jackson
Speaker 1: Marcus Peters might be kind of close interchangeable. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think Max Crosby takes this game over.
Speaker 2: I just I just don't see how he doesn't.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm with you. I think that's more than fair.
Speaker 1: The other kind of big picture matchup thing before we
Speaker 1: get into the little matchups, big picture matchup thing. This
Speaker 1: it's funny. I think Fred put it the other day
Speaker 1: that normally we talk about like two really good teams,
Speaker 1: and like it's like strength on strength, right, Like it's
Speaker 1: like great offense against great offense. They're great defense against
Speaker 1: great defense. This is a weakness on weakness. Okay, So
Speaker 1: this is basically a big part of this game to me.
Speaker 1: And who might win this game is who stinks less
Speaker 1: in this category in man coverage or the Patriots against
Speaker 1: man coverage. Who doesn't screw the pooch?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: Because the Raiders right now dead lass in the league
Speaker 1: in most statistics in man coverage as a defense man
Speaker 1: to man defense. They think they're giving up over in
Speaker 1: nine yards per past attempt in man this season, right,
Speaker 1: by far the most in the league. The Patriots are
Speaker 1: by far the worst man coverage offense in the league.
Speaker 1: They can't win against man coverage. So who makes more
Speaker 1: plays the Raiders defensive backs or the Patriots receivers against
Speaker 1: man coverage.
Speaker 2: Well that kind of goes into mine where I'm curious
Speaker 2: what it looks like without Juju and Tomaro Douglas. Right,
Speaker 2: Juju's a fifty eight percent used to drake guy. Douglas
Speaker 2: is twenty five. But Douglas is like ten percent of
Speaker 2: all their receiving yards this year in just twenty five
Speaker 2: percent of the snaps. Is it Taekwon, is it Kaishaun
Speaker 2: Boody or are you can get more Jalen Rager. Honestly,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't surprise me, and Evans is probably gonna annoy you.
Speaker 2: But I wonder if we just get a ton of twelve.
Speaker 2: We just get a ton of twelve personnel with Kendrick
Speaker 2: Born and Devonte Parker and they're just putting Faroh Brown
Speaker 2: in the game a lot to counter Max Crosby. Yeah,
Speaker 2: instead of having that third receiver on the field with
Speaker 2: guys banged up. I would like to see Kijon Booty.
Speaker 2: I think you probably should see Taekwon Thorn a good amount,
Speaker 2: especially without Douglas, because he gives you that speed element.
Speaker 1: There'll be a little bit of all of that.
Speaker 2: But I would not be surprised if we see a
Speaker 2: ton of twelve in this game, essentially just with the
Speaker 2: six offensive tackle in Pharaoh Brown.
Speaker 1: I like that. I think that that's a big part
Speaker 1: of this game. Like when you talk about one are
Speaker 1: the scheme tweaks that they can make Max protect keep
Speaker 1: everybody in right right, Like just seven guys in the
Speaker 1: protection eight guys in the protection whatever you want to
Speaker 1: call that with the running back. Seven man protect, eight
Speaker 1: man protect, play action, two man route combinations not We
Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit last year. A lot
Speaker 1: of bit I should say, was Zappi right, Like, not
Speaker 1: only does it protect the quarterback, but it also so
Speaker 1: simplifies the read for Mac. He's basically reading one route,
Speaker 1: right so, and really more in reality, is really really
Speaker 1: reading one player and that's the deep safety. But the
Speaker 1: deep safety plays the post. He's throwing the crosser. The
Speaker 1: deep safety jumps the crosser, he's throwing the post. Like
Speaker 1: it's It's really as simple as football gets for a quarterback.
Speaker 1: So I I would really think that they are going
Speaker 1: to do a lot of that this week. Whether it's
Speaker 1: true they haven't. I don't think they've run a single
Speaker 1: snap in true six O line yet. I don't think so,
Speaker 1: whether it's true six to oh line or it's you know,
Speaker 1: twelve personnel and bowl tight end, stay in and block regardless,
Speaker 1: that needs to be a part of this game plan
Speaker 1: moving forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I just think you have the perfect
Speaker 2: opportunity to do it this week with how banged up
Speaker 2: they are at receiver.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, uh, quickly key matchups. We kind of
Speaker 1: mentioned this one already, Uh Varian Lover's Max Cross. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought were already doing this. Sorry, that was one
Speaker 1: of mine. Yeah yeah, it kind of is hian. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't meant to laugh, but Vedarien Low against Max Crosby, Uh,
Speaker 1: this is this is as big of a mismatch as
Speaker 1: Michael Parsons was, Like, this is a gigantic epic mismatch.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: I don't really know what the Patriots do other than
Speaker 1: trying to throw waves of bodies at Max Crosby. Again,
Speaker 1: twelve personnel Pharaoh Brown. Yeah, it's gotta be like Pharaoh
Speaker 1: Brown double teams and if they're passing, then like the
Speaker 1: back like goes over there to the to Crosby side too,
Speaker 1: and like if he gets through the two guys on
Speaker 1: the double team, then he's got to at least run
Speaker 1: over a speed bump on the way to the quarterback, right,
Speaker 1: Like you just have to throw waves and waves and
Speaker 1: waves of bodies at Max Crosby. And uh I mentioned
Speaker 1: this when they played Parsons, Like when you when it's
Speaker 1: your turn to chip them, like like freaking like lay
Speaker 1: into him a little bit, right, like like actually hit him. Uh,
Speaker 1: you gotta make him feel some of that, and you
Speaker 1: gotta maybe even most importantly, like gotta make him start
Speaker 1: looking for it right, like I'm gonna get off the ball.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, is it coming? Is it not? Right? And
Speaker 1: then that kind of that split second of indecisiveness that
Speaker 1: buys you time too. Uh. So you gotta throw away
Speaker 1: as at bodies at him. You can't leave Venderian low
Speaker 1: one on one against him at all, really, right in
Speaker 1: this game? This is a this is a tough one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my top one too. I mean they got
Speaker 2: to figure out away again. I think it's fair with
Speaker 2: Brown probably helps. I think shifting coverage to the right
Speaker 2: probably helps, but or shifting sorry blocking, Yeah, but then
Speaker 2: you need Trent Brown winning one on one. You need
Speaker 2: whoever's at left guard winning on one that creates its
Speaker 2: own issues within itself.
Speaker 1: That's why I probably would expect Riley Reef to play
Speaker 1: left guard, because the left side is probably gonna be
Speaker 1: one on one. Yeah, and so he's probably your best
Speaker 1: bet leaving him one on one at this point, So
Speaker 1: I could see that, all right. Uh, number two here,
Speaker 1: we haven't talked a ton about Jacoby main reason is
Speaker 1: because like I don't want to be taking any victory
Speaker 1: laws because I was dead wrong about this, So I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna like rag on them as like everybody else
Speaker 1: is about Jacoby and like really quickly like not pointing
Speaker 1: fingers at anybody in particular. But if you're like doing
Speaker 1: the Jacoby victory lap, like can we go back to
Speaker 1: your tweets in March and your articles in March, like
Speaker 1: what were you saying about to move back then? Cause
Speaker 1: I'm not going you know, and I'm trying not to,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not I was dead wrong about this too.
Speaker 1: So if you're gonna play revisionist history and now all
Speaker 1: of a sudden fast forward to now and you're gonna
Speaker 1: write your articles of the Patriots really screwed this one up, like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, did you two? You know, like you probably did.
Speaker 1: Jacoby versus John Jones, I think is probably gonna be
Speaker 1: the matchup most of the time. I would expect JC
Speaker 1: to stay on the on the perimeter with with DeVante Adams,
Speaker 1: this one's tough. I think John Jones will be fine
Speaker 1: in coverage on Jacoby. Jacoby obviously is a great route runner,
Speaker 1: good hands. We know Jacoby Uh. The one thing that
Speaker 1: I would be worried about in this game one of
Speaker 1: the odds Josh lets him throw a pass. I think
Speaker 1: it's pretty high. Yeah, it depends on what the score
Speaker 1: is like if it's a close game. I don't know
Speaker 1: if McDaniels McDaniel's trick plays all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's on the table whenever, that's on the
Speaker 2: table whenever. I just it's gonna be just as an
Speaker 2: observer of the game, it's gonna be fun to watch
Speaker 2: Dacobe Myers and Jonathan Jones, two good players, two players
Speaker 2: who know each other very well, going head to head.
Speaker 2: I think that'll be enjoyable to watch. And this is
Speaker 2: a big game for Jakobe. You don't think there's a
Speaker 2: little extra juice for him.
Speaker 1: Your kid, yourself. I am interested to see what he's
Speaker 1: gonna do me as well. It's gonna be interesting match up,
Speaker 1: all right. Last one here, whether it's Colton Miller on
Speaker 1: the left side, Miller will be there at left tackle.
Speaker 1: Their right tackle situation. I think Illuminor has started over
Speaker 1: there most of the time, but he's hurt and Munford's
Speaker 1: the backup. I Either way, whoever's that right tackle because
Speaker 1: Colton Miller is a pretty solid player. You can rush
Speaker 1: on coldon Miller too, but Josh J Josh J has
Speaker 1: gotta get out to the quarterback a little bit. Like
Speaker 1: last week one Hurry really wasn't very impactful in that game.
Speaker 1: Didn't play a ton, but wasn't very impactful. It needs
Speaker 1: to be better than that. Without Judon, they need second
Speaker 1: half of last year josh Uja, Right, like, that's the
Speaker 1: player that they need to see. I know he's been
Speaker 1: banged up and that could be a factor, but if
Speaker 1: he plays a backup right tackle, even if he plays
Speaker 1: a lumin or who I don't really think very highly of,
Speaker 1: he should be able to win that matchup. And if
Speaker 1: they're gonna get any sort of pass rush going, it
Speaker 1: needs to come through josh Uja. Yeah, I'd agree with that.
Speaker 2: It's we've talked about this for a few weeks now
Speaker 2: that with Matthew Judon out, we're gonna see, right, he
Speaker 2: had that great end to the season last year and
Speaker 2: was it hey he finally figured it out, or was
Speaker 2: it just teams were so over compensating for what Judan
Speaker 2: was doing that he kind of got cut loose. Now
Speaker 2: we can see what he does as a number one
Speaker 2: pass rusher.
Speaker 1: Yep, you got anything else?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bill versus Josh, Bill Belichick, Josh McDaniel's just that
Speaker 2: element of it, and it goes to your thing about
Speaker 2: the trick plays, and you know on both sides are
Speaker 2: gonna have some special in store. I thought, Josh out
Speaker 2: coach Bill last year. Josh's staff out coach Bill's staff
Speaker 2: last year. And yeah, you know, it's a big spot
Speaker 2: for Bill Belichick, Bigger than anybody. I would say, bigger
Speaker 2: than Mac Jones, is a big spot for Bill Belichick.
Speaker 2: We said last week was a big spot coming off
Speaker 2: the worst loss of his career. He did not respond.
Speaker 2: Does he respond this week?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's an interesting matchup. I actually have
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I love Josh. Yeah, and I've
Speaker 1: actually enjoyed watching the evolution of his offense in Vegas. Uh,
Speaker 1: he got a lot to get a lot watch a
Speaker 1: lot of Vegas because they've played him twice. And you know,
Speaker 1: the thing is with him, we've all I've kind of
Speaker 1: always believed that McDaniels does McDaniels and the players. It's
Speaker 1: on the players to adapt and fit the system. And
Speaker 1: I think that that's been pretty true in Vegas at quarterback, right,
Speaker 1: which I think a big reason why Derek Carr is
Speaker 1: not there anymore.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 1: But in terms of yeah, but in terms of how
Speaker 1: he's used the personnel, I think it has evolved quite
Speaker 1: a bit. Like because he didn't have a Divite Adams
Speaker 1: in New England, right, so to find ways to get
Speaker 1: Devanta Adams open, You're not going to run Devanta Adams
Speaker 1: like he used Julian Edelman, right, Like, that just doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense. So I think that they have adapted
Speaker 1: quite a bit in terms of how they attack down
Speaker 1: the field. And they're still middle of the field offense.
Speaker 1: There's still a gap run team. There's a little bit
Speaker 1: more Shanahan in there now because of Jimmy I think,
Speaker 1: like a little bit more bootlegs and things like that,
Speaker 1: and like just a little little less full back. Not
Speaker 1: like they haven't ditched it, right, Yaka Johnson's still out there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: seventeen percent last year they were at twenty one percent,
Speaker 1: so it's not a huge difference this year. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I you know, but against the Packers, that stood out
Speaker 1: to me a little bit was that Yaka Johnson snaps
Speaker 1: were really just like short yardage in red zone when
Speaker 1: they were in between the twenties, they ran a lot
Speaker 1: of twelve and they have they have Mayor obviously a
Speaker 1: tight end, and they have a Hooper too, So they
Speaker 1: have two tight ends that I think are are capable,
Speaker 1: and they they've ran it a little bit differently, not
Speaker 1: a ton differently, but a little bit differently just because
Speaker 1: of the personnel. So he's adjusted. They're trying to get
Speaker 1: the run game going, just like the Patriots. Josh Jacobs
Speaker 1: has not been as good. No, and that's I think
Speaker 1: a big reason why too, whether they've changed some of
Speaker 1: the blocking schemes and some of the things up front.
Speaker 1: But that's the Raiders. I mean the Raiders. This is
Speaker 1: an interesting game. It's the Raiders are the Raiders. The
Speaker 1: Patriots are gonna know them well, they're gonna know Josh well,
Speaker 1: they're gonna know Patrick Graham, the defensive coordinator. Well, this
Speaker 1: comes down to to me, again not to be a
Speaker 1: broken record, but this comes down to effort, Like this
Speaker 1: comes down to want to do the Patriots want to
Speaker 1: play hard? Do they want to be there? Do they
Speaker 1: want to get a win? And the Raiders coming off
Speaker 1: that Packers with you know, they're still in it. I
Speaker 1: think what they're two or three? You know, they're still
Speaker 1: in it. The Patriots maybe not. Yeah, that's a thing.
Speaker 1: That's what we got. All right. On that note, we're
Speaker 1: gonna wrap it up and Alex and I will be
Speaker 1: back next week to preview the Buffalo Bills and the Bills.
Speaker 1: Are the Dolphins Bills? Is it Bills Bills? First? The
Speaker 1: Buffalo Bills. Recap this game against the Raiders. Let's just
Speaker 1: hope the Patriots. Is it fair to say competitive against
Speaker 1: the Bills? Is like a win in this situation. Let's
Speaker 1: see what happens this week. Yeah, let's see what happens
Speaker 1: this week. Oh boy. All right, we'll see you guys
Speaker 1: next week. Thanks, thanks for listening. Thank you for downloading
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