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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast. Sir Charles Schultz,

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Speaker 1: the third with us, will take calls with him next

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Speaker 1: hours we talk about all things space. Let's talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about the Russians for a moment, Sir Charles.

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Speaker 1: Of course, you know they've got the payload. They get

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Speaker 1: us up to the Iss and everything else. But why

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Speaker 1: have they stopped, you know, no attempts to go to

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Speaker 1: the Moon, no more attempts to go to Mars. What

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Speaker 1: happened to them? Well, there are two things we have

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Speaker 1: to consider here. One of them is when you go

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Speaker 1: to do a venture of that sort in space, you've

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Speaker 1: got to make a profit at it, whether it's in

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Speaker 1: raw information that you can use to advance your science,

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Speaker 1: or if it's in finding and exploiting a resource of

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Speaker 1: some sort. Going to the Moon is on the slate

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Speaker 1: for a number of countries, particularly for issues of raw

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Speaker 1: resources and energy. We've talked in times past or the

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Speaker 1: thought that there's helium three on the Moon which might

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Speaker 1: be useful for a fusion power in the future, and

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Speaker 1: we've also looked at the fact that shielding satellites from

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Speaker 1: impact and so forth could best be done by a

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Speaker 1: system that makes the equivalent of the lunar sandbags and

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Speaker 1: launches them back to Earth orbit. So you do that

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Speaker 1: for the Moon rather than having to pay for all

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Speaker 1: that tonnage going into space. But the other thing is,

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Speaker 1: really the Russians are not really delivering any of the

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Speaker 1: supplies to the United to the International Space Station of

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Speaker 1: any consequence these days, because SpaceX has already made sixteen

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Speaker 1: launches up there, and so you know, the time flies

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Speaker 1: that we become so used to these things happening, we

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Speaker 1: don't even consider how long it's been. We used to

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Speaker 1: depend on the Russians to get every person and every

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Speaker 1: payload up there for quite a while. Now they're still

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Speaker 1: carrying people. But that's about to shift now the loss

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Speaker 1: of the SpaceX capsule, and by the way, it was

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Speaker 1: a test of their safety escape system, and that was

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Speaker 1: a used capsule. By the way, the loss of the

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Speaker 1: capsule may set them back as much as a year

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Speaker 1: toward making manned launches. But we're to the position now

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Speaker 1: where if they said, man, we've absolutely positively got to

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Speaker 1: go now, we could do it. So you know, our

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Speaker 1: hands aren't tied. The Russians are are going to play

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Speaker 1: a lower importance task in getting people and supplies to

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Speaker 1: the space station, as they have been over the last

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Speaker 1: year or so. So, you know, going to space, you

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Speaker 1: don't have a destination to go unless you put it there.

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Speaker 1: In the past, the destination has been We're going to

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Speaker 1: gather some information, or going to fix something, or going

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Speaker 1: to deliver a payload. So that's all about the change.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of our favorite subjects here, and

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Speaker 1: that is extraterrestrial life. Sir Charles personally, how do you

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Speaker 1: feel about that possibility? Well, you know, if you look

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Speaker 1: at it, there's so much life on the Earth and

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Speaker 1: so much diversity, you think it must be everywhere, and

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Speaker 1: chemistry and physics, you know, work the same everywhere on

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Speaker 1: the universe. You know, there have been reports over the

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Speaker 1: last few months of repeating radio signals from space. This

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Speaker 1: is something that set he's always looked for. But the

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Speaker 1: signals are billions of years old. They're from ancient galaxy.

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Speaker 1: Now this could mean two things. Number One, it's sold

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Speaker 1: in so far away that they couldn't possibly have any effect,

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Speaker 1: any sort of an effect on us here on Earth.

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Speaker 1: Most likely. And the other one is well, if life

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Speaker 1: would around that far back, then civilizations could exist in

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Speaker 1: the universe that are extremely ancient and know pretty much everything.

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Speaker 1: We are really the newcomers on the block. So alien life,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, has to be a sure bet. I mean,

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Speaker 1: look at all the poor sorts of life forms we

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Speaker 1: found on Mars, and it looks like there could be

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Speaker 1: six places in our Solar system alone where primitive life exists.

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Speaker 1: Intelligent life, it's just a matter of time before we

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Speaker 1: find it. And would you say that it appears that

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Speaker 1: intelligent life forms about four and a half billion years

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Speaker 1: after the system has been created. Well, that's a good guess,

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Speaker 1: but that's the only guess we have. We have a

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Speaker 1: sample of one town. It's got to be us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I would say that's probably not a bad guess.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you look at how the dinosaurs were proceeding,

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Speaker 1: they were beginning to get brainy before they got wiped

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Speaker 1: out by the asteroid impact, and that was sixty five

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Speaker 1: million years ago, that's right. If not for that impact,

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Speaker 1: they would probably be dominating the planet right now. And

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Speaker 1: that's something to think about. On other worlds. We often picture,

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Speaker 1: you know, mammals as the dominant life Other worlds could

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Speaker 1: have the equivalents of reptiles or birds or some other

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Speaker 1: form that we haven't quite imagined as the dominant life form.

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Speaker 1: But whatever we find, it's going to be something utilitarian.

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Speaker 1: I mean, think about dolphins. They have no hands. They

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Speaker 1: can't run technology underwater, like blast furnaces and electronics, so

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Speaker 1: they're very limited by their physical environment and their structure.

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Speaker 1: There could be plenty of smart things in the universe

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Speaker 1: that don't have hands. On the other hand, we're not

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Speaker 1: going to meet them. We're not going to hear from them.

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Speaker 1: We're going to hear from people who have technical capabilities

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Speaker 1: and manipulative capabilities and the ability to think and produce

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Speaker 1: technologies and learn from the universe like we do now.

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Speaker 1: Of course, when we talk about life, we bring in spirituality,

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Speaker 1: some people bring in religion, some people bring in of

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Speaker 1: course God. Where does God fit into the equation in

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Speaker 1: your opinion with all of this, well, I would say this,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people feel that the universe could arise

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Speaker 1: at random, and that's certainly a possibility. Other people feel

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Speaker 1: that its complexity could only have been created by somebody

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Speaker 1: directing it. That's not necessarily true. If you had enough

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Speaker 1: universes forming over a long enough period of time, eventually

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Speaker 1: one of them would produce life, and you would need

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Speaker 1: a god to produce it. On the other hand, I

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Speaker 1: do believe there's a God, and there's a number of

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Speaker 1: reasons I do believe that. But what I will say

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Speaker 1: is this, it's easy for us to imagine, in our

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Speaker 1: weakness that there is always somebody smarter, faster, or stronger,

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Speaker 1: And it is only natural for this idea, as pervasive

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Speaker 1: as it is, to put things together in such a

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Speaker 1: way as we believe that there is a smarter, master,

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Speaker 1: stronger being outside of ourselves manipulating things and handling things,

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Speaker 1: because that's what we desire to do. As we know,

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Speaker 1: the Greeks created their gods in their own images with flaws.

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Speaker 1: A real god, if he had flaws, would be flaws

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Speaker 1: we can't even comprehend. Perhaps, But compared to where we're

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Speaker 1: going with computer technology, we can see how to create

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Speaker 1: and simulate worlds now, and some of them are getting

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Speaker 1: better and better. And we reached the realm of quantum computing.

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Speaker 1: We literally could create universes in the computer that, for

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Speaker 1: all intents and purposes, are real and if we put

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Speaker 1: intelligences in them, what would we tell them, what would

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Speaker 1: we represent to them? Well, and I've got to tell you,

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Speaker 1: it appears to me that there is no randomness here

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Speaker 1: to make all of this happen. It's got too much

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Speaker 1: order to it. It's got everything seems to be fit

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Speaker 1: like a glove, and random doesn't work that way. So Charles, well,

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Speaker 1: that's an easy position to take. But if you look

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Speaker 1: at something as simple as the evolution of a system,

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Speaker 1: any system that can carry information from one stage to

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Speaker 1: the next can change its level of complexity. And you know,

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Speaker 1: people scoff at evolution all the time, but it's an

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Speaker 1: observed fact. There are things that evolve, and we use

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Speaker 1: the technology, evolving code, evolving systems all the time. So

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Speaker 1: evolution is a valid process. But remember that doesn't exclude

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Speaker 1: a god. As I told a friend of mine who

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Speaker 1: said this years ago, he says, how can you believe

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Speaker 1: in God and believe in evolution? I said, it is

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Speaker 1: because there's not my job to tell God what tools

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Speaker 1: he can use. Well, that's a possibility too, But you know,

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Speaker 1: with the intelligence, whatever the intelligence might be, whether we

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Speaker 1: want to call it God or whatever, it might be.

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Speaker 1: It really appears to be there, doesn't it in your opinion?

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Speaker 1: I think so. Then you know, there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of things that I that I think of that as

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Speaker 1: a scientist I don't generally discuss. And you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: a man of faith, not a man of religion, and

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Speaker 1: understand there's a big, big difference there. I do see many,

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Speaker 1: many reasons why it makes the most sense for there

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Speaker 1: to be a god. And if you really come back

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Speaker 1: down to it, though, if the universe is a created thing,

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Speaker 1: then it was done through intent. And if there is intent,

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Speaker 1: then we're the product of intent, and that means we

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Speaker 1: have a purpose. And I think that for many people

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Speaker 1: this is one of the things that gives them a

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Speaker 1: sense of hope that their lives aren't just wasted or

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Speaker 1: at random. The thought that we actually have a meaning

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Speaker 1: of some sort, that we're valuable to someone or something somewhere, Well,

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Speaker 1: that's possible too. So Charles Shilts the third with us,

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Speaker 1: we'll take calls next hours. We talk about just about

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Speaker 1: everything going on in space. How aggressive are we in

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Speaker 1: terms of wanting to send an astronaut to Mars? Now

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Speaker 1: we've heard estimates of having them there by twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty. It can be done. The big showstopper right

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Speaker 1: now is getting better engine technology. I mean, we could

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Speaker 1: send anybody anywhere right now if we had sufficient engine

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Speaker 1: power to get them there in a reasonable period of time.

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Speaker 1: And those engines are emerging. I worked on an engine

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Speaker 1: project with the Space Island Group, remember Gene Myers group

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Speaker 1: many years ago, to make a plasma engine to move

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Speaker 1: some of their hardware to higher orbit, and I feel

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Speaker 1: that that engine could easily be adapted to traveling all

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Speaker 1: of the Solar System. Well, it's something that cuts our

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Speaker 1: travel times down from seven to ten months down to

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Speaker 1: let's say a month or less a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: Then you're in the ballpark. You actually have the ability

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Speaker 1: to put people anywhere without them being exposed to, for instance,

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Speaker 1: half a lethal dose of radiation on the trip. This

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Speaker 1: is the big issue right now. In the time it

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Speaker 1: takes for a man to travel to Mars, or alone

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Speaker 1: to travel Mars, or even living life samples or living materials,

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Speaker 1: they would be hit with so much radiation that for

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Speaker 1: a human being in behalf of a lethal dose, you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be coming back because you'd get the rest of

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Speaker 1: your dose on the way. So, Charles Schultz, this is

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Speaker 1: amazing work that you've done. It's amazing work that's just

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Speaker 1: out there, letting our minds wander to think about all

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Speaker 1: these incredible complexities and possibilities. What will it take for

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Speaker 1: us to really say definitively there are other planets out

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Speaker 1: there with intelligent life on them. I believe that that

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Speaker 1: could be done if we could see some sort of

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Speaker 1: a signal we could detect, well, in fact, that would

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Speaker 1: be That'd be it right there. Any signal we could

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Speaker 1: detect on a regular basis would be enough. If we

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Speaker 1: could get an optical look at what's going on, if

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Speaker 1: we could see an atmosphere and see pollution byproducts in it,

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Speaker 1: for instance, well, you know that's a good possibility. But

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Speaker 1: you know, when it really comes down to it, we

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Speaker 1: often think in terms of radio or laser signals, but

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Speaker 1: what if they're using quantum entanglement to send the messages.

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Speaker 1: We would not have the ability to detect those signals

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Speaker 1: just yet. We are only now learning how to use entanglement.

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Speaker 1: And personally I may be wrong, but I really strongly

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Speaker 1: believe that entanglement quantum mechanical methods, that's the way to

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Speaker 1: send your information, and it could get anywhere in the

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Speaker 1: universe nearly instantly as far as we can tell. So

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Speaker 1: maybe this communication is passing through us all the time.

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Speaker 1: We simply don't know how to read it yet. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that could be too, That's a very possible situation. Now,

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Speaker 1: there was just a report a few weeks ago of

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Speaker 1: a spacecraft that China had blown up some time ago,

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Speaker 1: and all this debris was heading possibly to the ISS,

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Speaker 1: the International Space Station. How bad is that situation? You know,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things that really concerns me. They

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Speaker 1: have a number of governments working on anti satellite weapons,

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Speaker 1: and the latest one, of course, was the Indian space debris,

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Speaker 1: but before that was the Chinese one. The Chinese event

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Speaker 1: was back in January of two thousand and seven, and

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Speaker 1: they shot down a satellite and they made thousands of

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Speaker 1: chunks of debris. About twenty three hundred of those was

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Speaker 1: large or larger than a golf ball. About thirty five

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Speaker 1: thousand of the pieces of debris were got signs of

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Speaker 1: a fingernail, think of little chips of solar panels and

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Speaker 1: bits of metal and plastic, and as an estimated one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand bits that are smaller than that,

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Speaker 1: and so that cloud of debris could reach the International

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Speaker 1: Space Station. It's in a lower orbit, but it only

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Speaker 1: takes a tiny little piece of material to penetrate the

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Speaker 1: skin of a spacecraft at that speed. A paint flake

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Speaker 1: can carry the energy of a hand grenade at those velocities. Now,

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Speaker 1: on March twenty seventh of this year, India became the

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Speaker 1: fourth nation to destroy a satellite in orbit, and they

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Speaker 1: used a ground based weapon and it was called Mission shocked,

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Speaker 1: and so they did it as well, they shot down

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Speaker 1: one of their own. But the debris is about sixty

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Speaker 1: miles lower than the space station, sixty five miles lower,

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Speaker 1: but it too, some of it could reach a space station.

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Speaker 1: So there is a real concern about there's something called

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Speaker 1: the Kessler syndrome. You blow up a satellite, gets pieces

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Speaker 1: destroy more satellites, and those pieces of debris destroy more,

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Speaker 1: that's right, and then before you know it, you can't

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Speaker 1: travel in space. Donald J. Kessler back in seventy eight,

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventy eight and was working as a

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Speaker 1: nasaster physicist, and he was the one that defined this

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Speaker 1: Kessler syndrome. And it is a real concern. We've got

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Speaker 1: to have a way to get junk out of orbit,

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Speaker 1: maybe using drones or something. How fast are these objects moving? Well,

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Speaker 1: if you're going forward in an orbit, it's around wow,

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Speaker 1: about fifteen thousand to twenty seven thousand miles per hour,

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Speaker 1: depending on where you are. Gosh, you're going backwards, you're

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Speaker 1: already at that speed and something's coming at you with

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Speaker 1: that same speed in the opposite direction. It doubles your

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Speaker 1: velocities and that means it hits four times as hard.

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Speaker 1: I mean if it hit an astronaut Sir Charles doing

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Speaker 1: a spacewalk, would it cut right through his suit depending

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Speaker 1: on the well, yes, yes it would. And you know

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Speaker 1: how big it was? It good? Could kin whom instantly?

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Speaker 1: If it's something as large as you know, your finger

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Speaker 1: or a finger name, it could mean instant death. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what would a bullet do? Yeah, exactly exactly. It can

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Speaker 1: be exceptionally dangerous. Now we try to track these objects

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Speaker 1: from the surface with our equipment. How small can we

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Speaker 1: track do you know? Well, that's classified, but we can

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Speaker 1: track items as small as a fingernail. That much is

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Speaker 1: known in space, Yes, and it's my opposition what we

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Speaker 1: do is we send a mixture of radar signals, and

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Speaker 1: the combined wave fronts from a number of weaker signals

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Speaker 1: come together to give you an image. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like when they do a cat scan or an MRI

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Speaker 1: on your body. You can get a lot more information

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Speaker 1: out of the radar signal than you think by a

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Speaker 1: mathematical analysis. So they're tracking millions of tiny pieces of

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Speaker 1: garbage right now, and really this is one of our

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Speaker 1: biggest potential industrial revolutions in space travel. Getting something that

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Speaker 1: will safely travel into space, trap this garbage and bring

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Speaker 1: back of the atmosphere so it can re enter just amazing.

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Speaker 1: I just can't think of the possibilities that's something like

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Speaker 1: that could actually happen. But it's out there, isn't it. Well,

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Speaker 1: it certainly is. But just consider if you were standing

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Speaker 1: on the Moon on a flat plane and no mountains

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Speaker 1: out of the way, A high velocity rifle is enough

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Speaker 1: to put a bullet literally in orbit, to go completely

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Speaker 1: around the Moon and come back to you. M dramatic.

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Speaker 1: To be sure, listen to more Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: every weeknight at one am Eastern and go to Coast

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