1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to brain Stuff, production of iHeart Radio, Hey brain 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: Stuff Lauren Boglebon here. Recently, the American public got its 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: first look at Special Counsel Robert Mueller's two volume report 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: on the investigation into Russian interference in the presidential election, 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: and some may have been startled to see how much 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: of the four forty eight page document, about seven point 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: to five of the text, according to the news website 8 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: Fox And been blacked out by US Attorney General William Barr. 9 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: Each blacked out word or passage was labeled with a 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: color code and notation indicating the legal justification for withholding 11 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: that material. These included potential harm to an ongoing legal matter, 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: the need to conceal investigative techniques, personal privacy, and grand 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 1: jury testimony, which generally must be kept secret under Rule 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: six of the Federal Rules of Procedure. In less a 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: judge issues a waiver, the House Judiciary Committee still subpoena 16 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: the uncensored report and Bar's explanations didn't quell the widespread 17 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: curiosity about what it was that Barr decided that we 18 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: shouldn't see. We spoke with Michael Ravnitzky, an attorney who's 19 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: an expert in the release of government documents through the 20 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: Freedom of Information Act. He said, there's something psychological about it. 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: If you see a document with blocked out sections, your 22 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: eyes go to it and you wonder what's under their 23 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: welcomed the arcane, secretive subculture of redaction, which is the 24 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: practice of removing or concealing portions of documents before a publication. 25 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: It's a phenomenon that most ordinary Americans probably are unfamiliar with, 26 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: as evidenced by the four thousand percent spike in the 27 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: number of searches for redact and redacted on the Meriam 28 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: Webster dictionary website on the day that bar sent a 29 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: letter to Congress revealing that he would release a redacted 30 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: version of Mueller's report. But attorneys, journalists, and historical researchers 31 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: are accustomed to blacked out spaces on documents as a 32 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: consequence of dealing with sensitive subjects. Redacting has long been 33 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: part of government imposed secrecy. When former CIA employee Victor 34 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: Marcetti and his co author John D. Marx sought to 35 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: publish a book on the CIA in the early nineteen seventies, 36 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: government censors who had authority to review the book under 37 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: Marchetti's employment contract redacted a hundred and sixty eight pages 38 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: from the text. The book was published with blank spaces 39 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: showing the location of the redacted passages. Decades later, documents 40 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: obtained using the Freedom of Information Act are still sometimes 41 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: riddled with blank squares over faces and photographs, and black 42 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: bars over words and sentences, and sometimes entire pages. But 43 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: it's not just the government. In the legal world, attorneys 44 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: routinely redact portions of documents that are to be turned 45 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: over during the discovery process in civil lawsuits. Those deletions 46 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: occur in order to protect attorney client privilege, attorney's work 47 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: product for clients, commercially sensitive information, and information not relevant 48 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: to the litigation. Other redactions are required by the courts 49 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: themselves to protect personal information, such as social security numbers, 50 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: from misuse. One of the odd things about redaction is 51 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: that while there are rules about what should be redacted, 52 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: there aren't really a lot of hard and fast rules 53 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: about how to block out that material. For years, attorneys 54 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: and government officials often simply used black markers to conceal 55 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: sensitive portions of documents, which were then photocopied so that 56 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: someone couldn't hold the paper up to thee and read 57 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: the censored words. In the mid two thousands, as more 58 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: and more documents began to be distributed in electronic form, 59 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: both the government and private sector law firms started shifting 60 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: to redacting the digital files themselves using software tools. These days, 61 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: attorneys involved in big corporate lawsuits often use e discovery platforms, 62 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: which allow them to manage massive amounts of documents and 63 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: which contain tools for redacting portions, though you can also 64 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: safely redact information using programs like Adobe Acrobat Pro assuming 65 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: that you're working with PDFs, But regardless of what technology 66 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: is used, it's necessary to go through documents individually and 67 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: figure out what to mask, which is a time intensive process. 68 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: In the case of the MULA report, bar and his 69 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: staff apparently scanned a printed copy of the report, redacted it, 70 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: and then printed and scanned it again to create a 71 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: new digital copy. That excess of caution resulted in a 72 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: low quality image that wasn't searchable. Since then, the Department 73 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: of Justice has published a searchable version as well. But 74 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: digital redaction isn't always fool proof. One sophisticated, high tech 75 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: method for reading redact word in the document involves analyzing 76 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: their lengths and comparing them to other words with the 77 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: same length on the page. And Guardian reporter John Swain 78 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: found that he could view redacted text in a court 79 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: document in the Paul Manifort case by copying and pasting 80 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: it into a Microsoft Word document. Matthew Ingram of the 81 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: Columbia Journalism Review explained, quote this likely happened because someone 82 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: either drew over the unwanted text with the black highlighter 83 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: tool and Microsoft Word, or used Adobe Acrobat's redaction tools 84 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: but forgot to merge them with the original document. We 85 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: also spoke with Mark Sade, a Washington, d c. Based 86 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: attorney who specializes in national security law and frequently deals 87 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: with redactions. He said, I don't trust technology. Even if 88 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: there's a safety mechanism, someone will invent something that overrides it. Thus, 89 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 1: Zaid generally shoes electronic redaction. His preferred method is to 90 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: quote literally cut it out with scissors and then photocopy 91 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: the page. It's a really sloppy looking redaction, but no 92 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: one will ever see what I cut out. In other instances, 93 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: if he's obstructed by the government to redact information from 94 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,679 Speaker 1: a document, he deletes the text and types the number 95 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: of word and deleted by the request of the CIA 96 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 1: in its place, but manual redactions on actual paper can 97 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 1: go awry to Zad recalls once receiving some redacted documents 98 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: in a case and discovering that he could hold them 99 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: up and read the words through the black ink. Whoever 100 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: sent them had provided the original pages rather than making 101 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 1: a photo copy. Zaide says that even when information in 102 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: court papers is redacted, it's sometimes possible to figure out 103 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: what's in the blacked out sections. The client may be 104 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: able to identify a witness or piece together what was 105 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: said in a discussion in which he or she participated, 106 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: for example, but generally, Zaide explained that it's not wise 107 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: to speculate, as even educated guesses can be wrong. He 108 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: gave the example of a Freedom of Information Act litigation 109 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: connected with the DP Cooper skyjacking case. He said, we 110 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: thought a document pertained to a particular person who was dead, 111 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: but when Zaide gave the government a copy of the 112 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: man's obituary in an effort to get the full document released, 113 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: they told Zaide he assumed wrong and the document was 114 00:05:54,200 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: about someone else. Today's episode was written by Patrick J. 115 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: Kaiger and produced by Tyler clang. Brain Stuff is a 116 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more on 117 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: this and lots of other topics, visit our home planet, 118 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com. And for more podcasts for 119 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: my heart radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 120 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.