1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:10,920
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. I cannot believe it. Netflix

2
00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,920
Speaker 1: at it again. In the last days, we learned about

3
00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:21,920
Speaker 1: a so called Netflix special documentary okay, that tasted bad,

4
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 1: going down documentary with quote new evidence that Jesse Smolett's

5
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:38,479
Speaker 1: hate crime hoax quote might just be a true story. Okay,

6
00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:44,440
Speaker 1: somebody comes, scrape me off the floor. What Okay, we've

7
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,440
Speaker 1: heard about this, We've investigated this, we have the two

8
00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,880
Speaker 1: guys that pulled the hoax with checks written to them.

9
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,560
Speaker 1: We've got all the lies, we've got all the circumstantial evidence.

10
00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 1: And now Netflix announces quote documentary. You know, I think

11
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 1: it should be called a mockumentary about Jesse Smollette and

12
00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 1: his hate crime hopes. Okay, wait for it. What's the

13
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:20,040
Speaker 1: title quote The truth about Jesse Smollette question mark end quote.

14
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna vomit. No, I've got to keep reporting. According

15
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:30,200
Speaker 1: to Netflix, they have quote new evidence about the case,

16
00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 1: and we'll tell the quote shocking true story of an

17
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 1: allegedly fake story that some now say might just be

18
00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:47,040
Speaker 1: a true story. Okay, that's a loaded ad. I need

19
00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,160
Speaker 1: to see, Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

20
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,160
Speaker 1: being with us. Let's just off the top say technical

21
00:01:54,240 --> 00:02:02,800
Speaker 1: legal term, that's bs. Jesse Smollette pull off a hoax,

22
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 1: a hoax that engendered so much hatred, so many bad feelings,

23
00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:17,800
Speaker 1: wrongdoing from within the prosecutor's office and more. If you'll recall, Smolett,

24
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 1: famous for the storing role of Jamal Lyon on Fox's

25
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:33,120
Speaker 1: drama Empire. He then reported himself as a hate crime victim,

26
00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,960
Speaker 1: one because he is black and two because he is gay.

27
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:43,800
Speaker 1: And he did the unthinkable. He wrapped a rope around

28
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:49,200
Speaker 1: his neck to suggest he was threatened with being lynched,

29
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:57,320
Speaker 1: lynched an unknown chemical substance he said was poured on him. Hello,

30
00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:58,359
Speaker 1: he did it himself.

31
00:02:59,440 --> 00:02:59,600
Speaker 2: Now.

32
00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 1: At first, the so called hate crime was met with

33
00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:08,200
Speaker 1: incredible support for Smollette, all sorts of famous stars like

34
00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:15,040
Speaker 1: Bayola Davis, Sean de Rhime's political figures like VP Harris

35
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:22,440
Speaker 1: Corey Booker described it as an attempted modern day lynching.

36
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,680
Speaker 1: That is, until, of course, the evidence came out. What

37
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,399
Speaker 1: do we know about what really happened that night when

38
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,480
Speaker 1: Jesse Smollette staged a hate crime on himself and what

39
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,400
Speaker 1: was the motive to make more money per episode on

40
00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:53,560
Speaker 1: Empire by conjuring up pr Press media on himself. Now,

41
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,680
Speaker 1: this is how I recall it all went down.

42
00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 3: You know, it's two o'clock in the morning, You're going

43
00:03:58,320 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 3: to subway.

44
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,560
Speaker 2: And so there is open twenty four hours. Like people

45
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,480
Speaker 2: kill me when they say things like that, because it's like,

46
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,160
Speaker 2: subway is open twenty four hours for a reason, so

47
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:08,960
Speaker 2: that when you're hungry at night and you ain't got

48
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:13,280
Speaker 2: no food, you go to subway. The camera facing north.

49
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,800
Speaker 2: How is that my issue? It feels like if I

50
00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:23,880
Speaker 2: had said it was a Muslim or a Mexican or

51
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,640
Speaker 2: someone black, I feel like the doubters would have supported

52
00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,960
Speaker 2: me a lot much more, a lot more. And that

53
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,200
Speaker 2: says a lot about the place that we are in

54
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,760
Speaker 2: our country right now, the fact that we have these

55
00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:41,800
Speaker 2: fear mongols, these people that are trying to separate us,

56
00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:48,080
Speaker 2: and it's just not okay. It's just not okay. And

57
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 2: for all of the people. The next time that you

58
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,280
Speaker 2: see someone report something, maybe well after the fact that

59
00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,800
Speaker 2: it happened, and you say to them, well, why are

60
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,040
Speaker 2: you waiting till now? Just remember that mine was reported

61
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,160
Speaker 2: right away and look what has happened.

62
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,279
Speaker 1: You are hearing TV star Jesse Smillette talking to superstar

63
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:17,320
Speaker 1: Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who

64
00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:22,480
Speaker 1: have doubted his story that he was attacked by I

65
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,200
Speaker 1: believe it started as two white males. It changed at

66
00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,800
Speaker 1: some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is how

67
00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,040
Speaker 1: the story started. That also has changed at two am

68
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,080
Speaker 1: in the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop.

69
00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,960
Speaker 1: According to Jesse Smollette, everyone knows him, big star on Empire.

70
00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,200
Speaker 1: He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put

71
00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,760
Speaker 1: a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called

72
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,359
Speaker 1: his manager and not nine one one. When he walked

73
00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,599
Speaker 1: back home. He then called nine one one When police arrived.

74
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:05,560
Speaker 1: They found him sitting there and roughed up and the

75
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:11,040
Speaker 1: rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If

76
00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 1: this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not

77
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 1: the truth. When he talks about his detractors dividing people,

78
00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:25,479
Speaker 1: is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this

79
00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:30,560
Speaker 1: is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every

80
00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:36,040
Speaker 1: single one of them. This is about a potential hoax

81
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 1: on police or a horrible hate crime with me an

82
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,599
Speaker 1: all star panel forensics expert, and boy do we need

83
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,800
Speaker 1: her now? Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction, renowned

84
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:53,120
Speaker 1: criminal attorney DARYLD. Cohen, former prosecutor, joining me from Atlanta,

85
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:58,680
Speaker 1: joining joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall, and

86
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,400
Speaker 1: joining me right now, Crime on line dot COM's Ellenclaurin E. K.

87
00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,640
Speaker 1: Let's just start at the beginning.

88
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:06,719
Speaker 4: Now.

89
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 1: Typically, when I'm hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything,

90
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,960
Speaker 1: usually the wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it,

91
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,880
Speaker 1: and go back to sleep. All right. Usually I don't

92
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,360
Speaker 1: feel like getting up and even going to the fridge

93
00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,440
Speaker 1: because I'm exhausted. But let's just start with a two

94
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,000
Speaker 1: am subway sandwich call.

95
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:24,480
Speaker 5: Go.

96
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 6: Well, it does appear that Jossy Smollett had arrived to

97
00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,440
Speaker 6: the airport in Chicago Lake, so I don't think this

98
00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 6: was a matter of him waking up in the middle

99
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,040
Speaker 6: of that and going out to the freezing cold in

100
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,400
Speaker 6: the subway. It was a very cold day, though, and

101
00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,400
Speaker 6: he's he tells police that he's on his way home

102
00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:43,880
Speaker 6: with his subway sandwich.

103
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 1: Wa wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

104
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,520
Speaker 1: this is in Chicago, correct.

105
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 7: That's right?

106
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So how cold is it it?

107
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 6: We were pretty sure it was blow freezing temperatures. This

108
00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 6: this was during a very very very cold spell in Chicago.

109
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,360
Speaker 1: I don't know the exact Dr Bethney. He must have

110
00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 1: been very hungry, very hungry.

111
00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,960
Speaker 8: Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in

112
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,679
Speaker 8: the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor,

113
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,520
Speaker 8: So if it's twenty degrees out regular temperature, the wind

114
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,320
Speaker 8: starts blowing forty fifty degree below windschill. I did my

115
00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,280
Speaker 8: undergraduate work there. Nobody goes out at to.

116
00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,200
Speaker 1: See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing

117
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 1: his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he

118
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,960
Speaker 1: thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.

119
00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,040
Speaker 1: But that's why I always like to start Darryl, not

120
00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,800
Speaker 1: with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is

121
00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,760
Speaker 1: he wakes up, according to his story, at two a m.

122
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,200
Speaker 1: And instead of getting leftover Pietz out of the fridge

123
00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,560
Speaker 1: or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter may be,

124
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,640
Speaker 1: he goes out in forty below to get a subway sandwich.

125
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,280
Speaker 1: See I start right there, That's where I start the story,

126
00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,840
Speaker 1: and I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen.

127
00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,920
Speaker 1: I just think that's Craig cray.

128
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,200
Speaker 5: Well, I'm wondering if Subway was actually open at two

129
00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:11,720
Speaker 5: in the morning.

130
00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I love Subway. Although

131
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 1: I did have a mini boycott for a week after

132
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:23,800
Speaker 1: Jared was you busted on child porn? I guess it

133
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 1: was their spokesperson. But long story short, Darryl Cohen, I

134
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 1: mean a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely nothing

135
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:32,240
Speaker 1: to do with it.

136
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,440
Speaker 5: I don't think it has anything to do with it.

137
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,640
Speaker 5: I think what has to do with it is did

138
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,040
Speaker 5: it or did it not happen? And as far as

139
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,319
Speaker 5: I can see from all of the evidence that's been

140
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,120
Speaker 5: presented to me, this guy is looking for more publicity

141
00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,200
Speaker 5: for whatever the reason, and he is about to get it.

142
00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,320
Speaker 1: Well, he's getting it all right, Okay, e K. Let's

143
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,679
Speaker 1: just go with the premise that it's true because the official,

144
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,840
Speaker 1: the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being

145
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:07,720
Speaker 1: treated as a victim because he is a victim. Crime

146
00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:15,000
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grief. In the last hours, we learn

147
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,359
Speaker 1: that Netflix is at it again, sturring their witches cauldron

148
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,200
Speaker 1: with quote new evidence that the hate crime against Jesse

149
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:32,240
Speaker 1: Smilette and his story quote might just be a true story.

150
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 1: As you will recall. Soon after Smollett takes to the

151
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,880
Speaker 1: airwaves describing how he was the victim of a hate crime,

152
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:49,959
Speaker 1: Chicago PD released surveillance images of the perpetrators and identify

153
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:56,440
Speaker 1: the two as also being black. They are Nigerian American brothers.

154
00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:02,720
Speaker 1: So we see the attackers performing a quote hate crime

155
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:08,720
Speaker 1: on Smolette who is black, and the purpse are black. Okay,

156
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,679
Speaker 1: just let that soak in for a moment. To claim

157
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:18,800
Speaker 1: a hate crime and wrap a rope around your neck

158
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,680
Speaker 1: as if you were threatened with lynching. Nothing could be

159
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:32,160
Speaker 1: more incendiary in our American consciousness. A horrible, horrible era

160
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:39,600
Speaker 1: that our country endured, all brought to the forefront by

161
00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:45,880
Speaker 1: Smollette's hoax. Then evidence came out Smolet orchestrated his own

162
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:51,679
Speaker 1: attack and paid the brothers nearly four thousand dollars. Idiot

163
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 1: wrote a check. Yeah, idiot wrote a check for his

164
00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,160
Speaker 1: hate crime attack. What more do we know?

165
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,439
Speaker 3: When did you, because as you said, it was an

166
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:11,760
Speaker 3: accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you

167
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,400
Speaker 3: make that information available to the police.

168
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,080
Speaker 2: We gave we had to give the phone records, which

169
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,920
Speaker 2: they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked

170
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,600
Speaker 2: for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone

171
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,040
Speaker 2: to the tech for three to four hours. I'm sorry,

172
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:34,920
Speaker 2: but I'm not gonna do that. Why Because I have

173
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:40,680
Speaker 2: private pictures and videos and numbers, my partner's number, my

174
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:47,120
Speaker 2: family's number, my castmate's number, my friend's numbers, my private emails,

175
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,240
Speaker 2: my private songs, my private voice memos. I don't know

176
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 2: what that's going to be to hand over my phone.

177
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,720
Speaker 2: And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been

178
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:58,480
Speaker 2: put out there.

179
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,880
Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend superstar Robin Robert said ABC's GMA,

180
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,120
Speaker 1: She's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smollette, the

181
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:13,480
Speaker 1: Empire star Everybody Loves Empire. The Empire star who claims

182
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,880
Speaker 1: that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he

183
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,760
Speaker 1: decided he was hungry, goes out to subway sandwich, gets

184
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,160
Speaker 1: a sandwich, and is attacked by two guys that throw

185
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:27,760
Speaker 1: acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around

186
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:32,679
Speaker 1: his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He

187
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,320
Speaker 1: manages to get home and call police. He says he

188
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,000
Speaker 1: calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that

189
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,960
Speaker 1: is why they wanted the phone to confirm that he

190
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,160
Speaker 1: called his manager and not nine to one one. They

191
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,719
Speaker 1: aren't being clear why they want the phone, but they

192
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,720
Speaker 1: want the phone. Karen Smith jourining me for insics expert

193
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,560
Speaker 1: out of Florida. Why do they want Jesse Smollette's phone?

194
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,319
Speaker 7: Listen, when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators,

195
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,040
Speaker 7: the best now in the world of social media and

196
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,640
Speaker 7: texting is to get the phone of the victim. You

197
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,840
Speaker 7: can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook and

198
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,120
Speaker 7: Twitter and all of those things, and text messages especially

199
00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,520
Speaker 7: Listen if nothing happened. And I understand, you know the

200
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 7: privacy thing, and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever

201
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:20,560
Speaker 7: that he not released.

202
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,840
Speaker 6: But the police they're not going to go into that.

203
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,520
Speaker 7: That's not their interest. Their interest is looking at communications

204
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,560
Speaker 7: between Jesse Smollett and these other alleged perpetrators if there

205
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 7: was any, if there was any, the phone call that

206
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,640
Speaker 7: he made to his manager, what time did he make it,

207
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 7: where did he make it from. All of those questions

208
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,320
Speaker 7: have to be answered, and they have to have the device.

209
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,200
Speaker 7: They can't just take somebody's word for it. That's not

210
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,360
Speaker 7: how life works anymore.

211
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,520
Speaker 1: Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor,

212
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,680
Speaker 1: felony prosecutor, and the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted. I

213
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,520
Speaker 1: just missed him, Darryl. At the time when we were

214
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 1: when I first started prospers, we did not have DNA,

215
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,920
Speaker 1: we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it

216
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: old school, okay, and we did it now with the

217
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:16,040
Speaker 1: advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is

218
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:21,000
Speaker 1: saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is

219
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 1: a problem to me. I don't have a problem with

220
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,360
Speaker 1: anything else he's saying. But when he says find you

221
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 1: know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry

222
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 1: at two am or goes out in sub zero that

223
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,240
Speaker 1: below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't

224
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 1: hand your phone over to cops, that is a big

225
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 1: red flag to hay with your private communications. If you

226
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,600
Speaker 1: have had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a

227
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 1: rope tied around your neck out on the street, you're

228
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,000
Speaker 1: handing your phone over because you want those people caught, right,

229
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,600
Speaker 1: I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing, Darryl.

230
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with finding

231
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 5: out why he would call his manager. The last time

232
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,360
Speaker 5: I checked, was not a law enforcement person, was not

233
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,320
Speaker 5: a bodyguard. Why would you not call the police any

234
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,520
Speaker 5: of us. Any of us, whether we're an actor, whether

235
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 5: we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief, whatever we may be,

236
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,880
Speaker 5: we are going to call the police if something bad happens.

237
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,200
Speaker 5: So yeah, I've got a real problem with him not

238
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,040
Speaker 5: turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse, but he

239
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,280
Speaker 5: thinks he's Jesse James. He is having Oh you work

240
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,120
Speaker 5: right now. He's having a real problem.

241
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:34,720
Speaker 1: You probably stand up all night.

242
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,240
Speaker 5: Law. I thank you coming.

243
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,080
Speaker 1: Up with that. He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay,

244
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to just pass over that one.

245
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's a big deal to me, Darryl. And

246
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 1: I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but in

247
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,840
Speaker 1: my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor because

248
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,800
Speaker 1: you could get a jury eating out of your hand.

249
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 1: You're always prepared. You need the law, you need the facts,

250
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,560
Speaker 1: knew at all when you went in front of a jury,

251
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,479
Speaker 1: and in this case, when you have a victim that

252
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 1: does not cooperate with police, that is a problem. I

253
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,199
Speaker 1: don't care who he is. I don't care who he

254
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,280
Speaker 1: sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care.

255
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,560
Speaker 1: But if you don't cooperate with police, then that is

256
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,919
Speaker 1: a problem with me. What's your problem.

257
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,919
Speaker 5: There's a problem with me as well. I've got another

258
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,439
Speaker 5: problem with that. How in the world in the middle

259
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 5: of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees

260
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:40,640
Speaker 5: it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by

261
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 5: two people who know you're obviously black but you're homosexual?

262
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 5: Really and you well.

263
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 1: Because he's a famous things TV star. So here, here's

264
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,200
Speaker 1: the thing. This is another wrinkle in this too, Ellenklauren

265
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,440
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com. Hold On, I'm going to write

266
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 1: this down. Here's the thing. So, if they were targeting

267
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:07,640
Speaker 1: Jesse Smolette, Okay, hold on, they were targeting him and

268
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,879
Speaker 1: this was a hate crime, how do they know to

269
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:17,080
Speaker 1: be outside the subway at too am with bleach and rope?

270
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,399
Speaker 1: Or are they just hanging around to get a sandwich

271
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 1: and they happen to have bleach and rope with them?

272
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,800
Speaker 1: If they were targeting Jesse Smolette, E k were they

273
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,240
Speaker 1: casing out his apartment? Why were they there at two am?

274
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,560
Speaker 1: And I haven't even touched on these two guys, these

275
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 1: two Nigerian guys that work out in his apartment building,

276
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 1: gim that know him, that have been extras on the

277
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,480
Speaker 1: set of Empire, or at least one of them has

278
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,040
Speaker 1: that have been questioned and released and allegedly are now

279
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 1: saying they were paid to do the attack. But first

280
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 1: of all, to get to the theory, Ellen to Laurence.

281
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 1: So the perps were what waiting outside the subway sandwich

282
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,120
Speaker 1: shop for him? I mean, what's the theory here? How

283
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 1: did they know he was going to be getting a

284
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 1: sandwich at two am if he was the one targeted

285
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 1: for a hate crime?

286
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was

287
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 6: going to get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse

288
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 6: has an un Instagram account and he's a very active

289
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,119
Speaker 6: social media user, and we learned over the weekend that

290
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 6: he had been in New York during the previous days

291
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 6: and he was on He had flown back to Chicago

292
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,199
Speaker 6: that night, but his flight was the lead and he

293
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 6: came in much later and expected, and he posted a

294
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:47,440
Speaker 6: couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram account talking about

295
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 6: how his flight was delayed. So someone who had to

296
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,919
Speaker 6: have had a little bit of information about what was

297
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 6: going on with him that day, if they wanted to

298
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,320
Speaker 6: track his movements, they could to a certain degree through

299
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 6: his social media activity.

300
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you this, Eka, regarding Jesse Smileette.

301
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 1: Now that may make it make more sense that he

302
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,520
Speaker 1: was out at two am? Was he was his flight

303
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,960
Speaker 1: so delayed? He was just getting home from the airport

304
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,359
Speaker 1: at say one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know

305
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: the timing of that? Because that makes although the Chicago

306
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 1: airport is full of food, but I don't know if

307
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 1: it would be open. The food stands will be opened

308
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 1: that late at night. So if he gets off a

309
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 1: plane from New York and he gets in midnight, gets

310
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 1: to his apartment at one, he may very well be hungry.

311
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 1: And there is a theory out there that that is

312
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: how he communicated to set up the attack through posting,

313
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 1: you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, that these two brothers could

314
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 1: actually see his movements by looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So, Ek,

315
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 1: do we know what time he got in from his flight?

316
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 8: Don't ask me what.

317
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 6: Time he landed or got back to his apartment. But

318
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 6: it does We don't have a lot of very clear

319
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 6: information at all, Nancy, but it does seem as though

320
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 6: it's likely that he did stop off at his apartment first.

321
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 6: But like you said, he has been away the middle

322
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 6: of the night. He probably hasn't eaten. He's on the

323
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 6: flight for longer than expected. The Food Court.

324
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:23,919
Speaker 9: Put it the Coon.

325
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Netflix at it again, this

326
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 1: time climbing Jesse Mullett quote might just be telling the truth,

327
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: He's not. Why are you even saying that Smllet, initially

328
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: indicted on sixteen counts of felony disorderly conduct, charges were dropped.

329
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: You remember that Kim Fox all up in the middle

330
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 1: of it. A year later he was re indicted. There

331
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: was a high profile trial. He was convicted and sentenced

332
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 1: to thirty months probation Hello, plus one hundred and fifty

333
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 1: days in jail finds over one hundred thousand dollars. But

334
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 1: then that conviction was reversed. The Illinois Supreme Court found

335
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: that reprosecution violated do you process. But then in twenty

336
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: twenty five, Smollett settles with the City of Chicago and

337
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 1: to this day denies he staged the attack. Yes you did,

338
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: and this is how we know it. Let's just look

339
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: not at Netflix, not at what Smollett says, but at

340
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: the facts.

341
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 2: I think that what people need to hear is just

342
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 2: the truth.

343
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: It's just the.

344
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 2: Truth, because everybody has their own idea. Some are healing

345
00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 2: and some are hurtful. But I just want young people,

346
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 2: young members of the LGBTQ community, young black children, to

347
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 2: know how strong that they are, to know the power

348
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 2: that they hold in their little pinky.

349
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 9: It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse

350
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 9: Smolette bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the

351
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 9: raw motions.

352
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?

353
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 2: I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram

354
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 2: and dms and things like that. It's like, but you know,

355
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 2: I'm a public figure. I'm very outspoken, sometimes maybe too outspoken,

356
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 2: but it's who I am, you know, So I get

357
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 2: the idea of pissing people off, that you're going to

358
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: rub people the wrong way.

359
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 9: In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a

360
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 9: letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago, threatening

361
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 9: language at least with powdery substance likely Tailan knol Do

362
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 9: you think there's a link between the letter and the

363
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 9: attack and you did mention it to.

364
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 3: The police right away out of the.

365
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: Letter, absolutely, just because on the letter it had a

366
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 2: stick figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing

367
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 2: towards it, with the words that said small at Jesse,

368
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 2: you will die black. There was no address, but the

369
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 2: return address it in big red, you know, like caps maga.

370
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: Did I make that up too?

371
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking with

372
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: Empire star Jesse Smillett, and right now we know that

373
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,719
Speaker 1: the police investigation is going on. Police chief has confirmed

374
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 1: the two guys that allegedly are identified in the video

375
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: that police believe committed the act the attack on Jesse

376
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: Smollett have been apprehended, questioned and released with no charges.

377
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters

378
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: that he claims he got leading up to this attack?

379
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: Threatening letters?

380
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 6: Yes, one, exactly one week before the night of the

381
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 6: alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where

382
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 6: he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it contained

383
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 6: direct death threats, homophobic and racist language. There's two things

384
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 6: about the letter that are coming up more recently in

385
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 6: the discussion around this case. One of those is that

386
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,239
Speaker 6: some unidentified sources who have access to the set and

387
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 6: may even work with Jesse, have told CBS News that

388
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 6: he was unhappy about the response to the letter and

389
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 6: the threat that he got, that he felt that there

390
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 6: wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and that he was angry,

391
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 6: and that they're questioning did he set up this orchestrate

392
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 6: this purported hate crime as retaliation for that. The other

393
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 6: thing that we're learning, and again these are not official

394
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 6: law enforcement statements. These are unidentified sources you are talking

395
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 6: to new thoughtless. But we're learning that the letter was

396
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 6: made out of and you can see it in the photos.

397
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 6: The letter was written sort of like a ransom type

398
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 6: of letter with cutout letters from a magazine. And we're

399
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 6: hearing that when investigators went and raided the apartment of

400
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 6: these two brothers who have been identified as possibly involved

401
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 6: in this attack, they took away a magazine.

402
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall, are

403
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha

404
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: Christi and Erquil Poirot, like in the movies where you

405
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them

406
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.

407
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: And also we are learning for sure that in a

408
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: follow up visit by investigators, Malette says, the attackers mentioned

409
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: something about this is Maga country, which relates back to

410
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign. So the whole situation is fluid, but

411
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: I can tell you this. Remember the Runaway Bride when

412
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut grass

413
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: and do community service out in the public for I

414
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: forgot how long other people have done jail time, hard

415
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: jail time for bringing police in on a hoax of

416
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: an investigation, because who knows what crimes were really happening

417
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: at the time of a hoax, and instead of dealing

418
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands and

419
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,239
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve a

420
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: fake call. And this one, if it is fake, is

421
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: a whopper. Now what do you make Dr Bethany Marshall

422
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: the studio, the Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've

423
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,719
Speaker 1: been told, but according to sources, he was unhappy with

424
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: the reaction to the letters. Does that mean what, they

425
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: didn't get enough attention. What does that mean to you,

426
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany.

427
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 8: Well, you were mentioning the runaway bride and these crimes

428
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 8: where we find out it's a hoax in the end.

429
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 8: And I don't know if this was a hoax or not.

430
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 8: But in forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained

431
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 8: to do with crime victims is to find out if

432
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 8: they're doing something called malingering. MA Lingering is when you

433
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 8: make up medical symptoms or you exaggerate medical symptoms for

434
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 8: some external reward. It's that simple. Now, in twenty percent

435
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 8: of criminal cases, lingering is involved in some way, twenty

436
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 8: percent of PI cases, as you can imagine MA lingering,

437
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 8: thirty percent of disability cases. The sicker I am, the

438
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 8: more I'm going to get some kind of reward or

439
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 8: attention or I'm going to get out of some consequence,

440
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 8: like you're not going to send me to jail, I'm

441
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 8: not going to have to go to the military. So

442
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 8: what's so interesting to me about this story is the

443
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 8: exaggerate two aspects, the exaggerated nature of his symptoms. He's

444
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 8: sitting on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the rope

445
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 8: around his neck, wouldn't you pull a rope off? No,

446
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 8: he's sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that

447
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 8: he's been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ,

448
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 8: anything that could paint him in a sympathetic light, he

449
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 8: keeps putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy

450
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 8: nature of the timeline. When somebody malingers, they usually obstruct

451
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 8: the investigation process. They do not want the investigators to

452
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 8: know clearly what happens. So if I have a patient

453
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 8: and my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall, I was,

454
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 8: I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me. I

455
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 8: want to bring a lawsuit, you know, I say, well,

456
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 8: what did your boss say?

457
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know.

458
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 8: I just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very

459
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 8: fuzzy dkay.

460
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: Now is it true? Ek Ellen color crime online dot

461
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter that Smolead had been in New York

462
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,239
Speaker 1: to audition for a role in the play that is

463
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: very oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we

464
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: know about the play for which he was auditioning?

465
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 6: He was at a reading. Actually it wasn't an audition.

466
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 6: I believe he's already part of the cast. But that's

467
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 6: what he was doing in New York. He was flying

468
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 6: back to He was flying back to Chicago from New York,

469
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 6: and he was in New York because he was doing

470
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 6: a reading of the script of this play. And the

471
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 6: character in the play is a person of color. It's

472
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 6: a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in the

473
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 6: cave in the case of the fictional character. But he

474
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 6: is someone who the character is someone who has been

475
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 6: the victim of hate crimes that, according to the reports

476
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 6: that we're reading the have some similarities in the crime

477
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 6: that was allegedly committed against him, just that within hours

478
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 6: of him arriving back to Chicago for.

479
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: The same wording, the same slurs, awful slurs. If this

480
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: is true, it is a hate crime. I'm learning also

481
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in felony court,

482
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: that he Smelette did not call police. It was a

483
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: close associate about forty minutes after the attack, according to

484
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: the New York Times, and I think that was his manager.

485
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: He did not call police. And when Cox got to

486
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: his place, he still was wearing the rope around his neck.

487
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 5: Help me, well, I can help you, Nancy, because it

488
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 5: sounds to me like a setup. Did you also pay

489
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 5: attention to his voice. This is a guy that's reading

490
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 5: a script. This is not someone who's upset. This is

491
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 5: not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not

492
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 5: going to be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail.

493
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 5: Add the fact that he's not giving his phone to

494
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 5: the police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all

495
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 5: he can do is say, oh my gosh, I was

496
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 5: attacked and this is terrible, but he has a noose

497
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 5: around his neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a

498
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 5: guy who was look many times, Nancy, people equate stars

499
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 5: on television or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry,

500
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 5: not the same. Some are, some are not. This guy

501
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 5: is reading a script. He saw a way to get even, perhaps,

502
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 5: he saw a way to make more money. Perhaps, but

503
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 5: what he didn't see is that he's not as bright

504
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 5: as he believes himself to be. So he's not shakesa Take.

505
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: A Listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar, brothers Ola

506
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: and abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told detectives.

507
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 4: Their role in the reported January twenty ninth attack on

508
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 4: actor Jesse Smilette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say

509
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 4: Smolette pay the brothers Thou to carry out a staged attack.

510
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 4: So Malette had this to say about the scuffle with

511
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 4: his attackers.

512
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: He said, this Maga country punches me right in the face.

513
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: So I punched the ass back. I noticed the rope

514
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: around my neck and I started screaming.

515
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: People that make false claims to police, much less to

516
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: this extent, usually land behind bars. If they're regular mortals

517
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,959
Speaker 1: like all of us. If your Hollywood star, maybe you

518
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: get different treatment. Jesse Smollett, superstar on the cast of

519
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:38,239
Speaker 1: Empire to Ellenclaurincrimeline dot com investigative reporter where we have

520
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: all breaking crime and justice news. Ellen, what can you

521
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: tell me about these two guys. Everyone refers to them

522
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: as Nigerian. They're American, That's right, Nancy.

523
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 6: They were bored and raised in Chicago. The reason I

524
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 6: believe that people are calling them Nigeria is because they

525
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 6: for reasons that have not been explained and I do

526
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 6: not understand. Apparently, slew to Nigeria the day after the

527
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 6: attack and came back to Chicago last week where they

528
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 6: were met with investigators at the airport. That has not

529
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 6: been explained why that happened or if it has anything

530
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 6: to do at all with the alleged assaults. And I

531
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 6: also wanted to point something else out, since we're talking

532
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 6: about the rope and the phone. A lot of the

533
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 6: things that have come up in recent days really don't

534
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 6: look look good like they look very suspicious, and and

535
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 6: things are starting to really maybe fall apart here in

536
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 6: this story. But a couple of things I think are

537
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 6: not suspicious that happened here. I don't think it's suspicious

538
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 6: that he did not want to hand over his entire

539
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 6: phone immediately. He's a public figure, he's a celebrity.

540
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 8: You who had Allen received before?

541
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: Allen, have you ever been attacked at two am, had

542
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: a rope tied around your neck and bleach port on you?

543
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: Because if you have, I'd like I have you not

544
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: got that? Okay? Because if that happens to you and

545
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: your life is in danger, and say we need your phone,

546
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: you go here whatever I mean when the cop pulls

547
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: me over, which has happened, I like say whatever here,

548
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: take it all okay, Just please leave my children behind. Whatever.

549
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay. Nobody

550
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: should be above the law. And if they want your phone,

551
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: give your phone. But you know what, that's you and

552
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: this is me, So go ahead with your analysis, okay.

553
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 6: But what I wanted to also say is that I

554
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 6: believe he did agree to hand over the full records

555
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 6: about the rope. What we heard in the in the

556
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 6: beginning of this narrative was that he kept the rope

557
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 6: around his neck because he didn't want to sort of

558
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 6: disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers to

559
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 6: see what had been done. That was the explanation for

560
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 6: the rope of being left.

561
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: You know what, I hear you. And he could have

562
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: claimed that he did not want his DNA his I

563
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: don't think you get prints off rope, but any of

564
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 1: his fibers or DNA on the rope, or to ruin

565
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: any evidence on the rope. So I can understand that.

566
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,

567
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: but that they were heavily redacted. Now, according to TMZ

568
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records were handed over

569
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: and the cops rejected them. The cops rejected them Darryl

570
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: cod are you sitting down? The cops rejected them, saying

571
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: that they were so heavily redacted that they were basically

572
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: of no use. What about handing over your phone records

573
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: to cops and you redact them.

574
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 5: Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have

575
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 5: a victim of a crime. First of all, I want

576
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 5: to go back to the net of the noose. If

577
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 5: I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god,

578
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 5: I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I

579
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 5: possibly can, because I am freaked out. This guy was

580
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 5: not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking

581
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 5: for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire,

582
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 5: but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win

583
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 5: a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who

584
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 5: doesn't recognize the truth from a lie. He is scripted

585
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 5: and he's gotten himself into a problem. He's a walking,

586
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 5: living soap opera.

587
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: That the whole reason they got interested in the phone

588
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: records to start with is that Smolette said to cops

589
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: he was on the phone with his manager at the

590
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 1: time of the attack, and that the manager says he

591
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: heard the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown and they

592
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: want to authenticate that that call was in fact made.

593
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 1: They asked Salent for the records about two weeks before

594
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: they got a PDF file. Now, police also say their

595
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: cameras everywhere in the area, but there is a sixty

596
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: second gap in the video where you don't see the

597
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: Empire Star, so there's no video of the actual attack.

598
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: I've looked at shots of the video and you see

599
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: two persons of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is

600
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,959
Speaker 1: what is telling to me, Doctor Bethany Marshall. These two

601
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: guys that everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very

602
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: clear on that. Who take off to Nigeria. The day

603
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: after the attack. They work out in his building. At

604
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: least one of them does in the gym in Spolette's building,

605
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: his apartment building. One of them has been an extra

606
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: on the set. They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders.

607
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: I've seen their photos and I never see them wearing

608
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: a shirt. I mean not judging, but they are totally buff.

609
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: So you can see they work out all the time.

610
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: They take off for Nigeria the day after the attack,

611
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: they come back and they're met by the cops, they

612
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: are questioned, they are released Dtor Bethany no charges and

613
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: after meeting with cop say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolett.

614
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 1: What does that say to you, doctor Bethany.

615
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 8: Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now

616
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 8: thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid

617
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 8: for the attack, right, And some people do not think

618
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 8: ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into

619
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 8: a crime. So they thought, may have fought, no big deal,

620
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 8: we'll rough them up, We'll put a rope around his neck,

621
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 8: we'll take vacation, we'll come back, this will have all

622
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 8: blown over. But you know what, they talk to the police.

623
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 8: As I was saying about malingering, the whole story does

624
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 8: not shake out. The timeline is not consistent, and so

625
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 8: the police are going to look to Jesse. And I

626
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 8: would wonder what is Jesse's reward in all of this?

627
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 8: When people malinger symptoms.

628
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 7: You know, I was.

629
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 8: Roughed up, I was a victim. They do it for

630
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 8: a reward. Is he trying to up his Twitter following?

631
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 8: Is he negotiating a contract right now and he wants

632
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 8: to prove to the EP of the show that he

633
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 8: is the center of a national news situation. Is he

634
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 8: wanting to take somebody else's role in Empire? You know,

635
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 8: I think that there's a reward there somewhere, and if

636
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 8: you follow that trail, the whole thing begins.

637
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: Well, I've been looking in researching and following and asking questions.

638
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: According to CBS Chicago, who is there on the scene,

639
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: Cotts want to speak to Smollette again based on quote

640
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 1: new evidence they learn from the two friends the two guys. Now,

641
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,439
Speaker 1: according to CBS, two sources told them that Smolette paid

642
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: the two guys thirty five hundred dollars to stage the attack.

643
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: This is CBS This Morning anchor John Dickerson. Take a

644
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: listen to what they see on the video.

645
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 10: Please are looking for two potential persons of interest in

646
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 10: a possible hate crime against actor Jesse Smollette. Please say

647
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 10: a surveillance camera took these images of the two men

648
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 10: on the night Smollette says he was beaten. The star

649
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 10: of the TV drama Empire said his masked attackers yelled

650
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 10: racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is tracking the investigation.

651
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 11: Investigators are hoping the FBI can enhance those images to

652
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 11: provide some distinguishing details. Now, the men are not considered suspects,

653
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 11: but the police do want to know who they are

654
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 11: and what they were doing when Smollette says he was attacked.

655
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 12: Sources tell CBS News the two figures seen in these

656
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 12: dark surveillance images were also spotted sitting on a bench

657
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 12: when Jesse Smolette walked past them across the street. They

658
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 12: then appear to get up and follow him, although the

659
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 12: three of them are never seen on camera together. About

660
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 12: a minute later, investigators say another security camera captured Smolette

661
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 12: returning to his apartment with a noose tied around his neck.

662
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 12: The rope was untied but still on his neck when

663
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 12: police arrived forty five minutes after he says he was

664
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 12: a tact.

665
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: The truth about Jesse Smollette, I think I already know

666
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: the truth now. This is from the director Gagan Reehill

667
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: and raw or Aw, the production company behind several Netflix

668
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: hits such as Don't f With Cats and The Tender Swindler.

669
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: This is what the director says, and I quote this

670
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: story is a thrilling ride. A ride. This was a

671
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 1: court case with evil intent on the behalf of Smollett

672
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: to stir up hatred and more ill will across our country.

673
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: He goes on to say, I wanted this documentary to

674
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: balance their competing narratives. In other words, nobody's getting the

675
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: same story because they're listening to Smollette lie end quote,

676
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: use their color full testimonies translation lies more lies than Smollett.

677
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: But more than that quote. I want this film to

678
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: speak to the particular moment of rapid cultural change. I

679
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: don't even know what he's talking about. That said, I

680
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: do know the truth that came out in court under oath,

681
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: under threat of perjury. Netflix documentary or Netflix documentary or

682
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: Netflix documentary. I know what happened in court. Smellett did it.

683
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye,