WEBVTT - Alternate Theories 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.200 How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? Now streaming only 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.800 on Hulu, experience a race against time by four mothers 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:10.039 who went undercover. My ex partner abducted our six year 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:12.000 old son and took him out of the country. This 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:15.040 was a mother's worst nightmare, and we'll stop at nothing. 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.239 I knew something bad at for the children they love. 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.080 I was so scared, and that's when all hell breaks loose. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.800 Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you mess with 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:29.280 the wrong mother. Now streaming oh Man, Hulu search Mother Undercover. 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:32.120 He'll forget about the video game you gave him on 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:35.919 his birthday. Wow, thanks Grandpa. 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With get Around, 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.040 you only pay for the time you need with rates 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.280 starting at just five bucks an hour, so you can 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.760 get moving on a budget. Get Around Just book on 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.160 lock to drive, say twenty five dollars on your first 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.680 Get Around trip with code affordable twenty five supply. Welcome 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.400 to the piked In Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:10.360 Katie Studios, four members of the Wagner family are in 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.239 prison awaiting death penalty trials for the murder of eight 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.799 members of the Rodan family. Four suspense are Billy and 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:20.600 Angela Wagner and their sons George. The fourth day. These 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:24.000 four individuals are now in custody for alleged late committing 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:29.280 this heartless, ruthless, cold blooded murder. Two others have been 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:31.840 charged with helping to cover up the grizzly crime rider 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.400 Joe Nukam and Fredrik Kirol Wagner under house arrest connected 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:37.840 to the killings of eight members of the Rodan family 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.920 to judges said bond and one hundred thousand dollars. But 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.760 while Ohio's largest murder investigation brings the alleged killers to 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.320 stand trial, it also raises some unsettling questions about the 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:53.359 victims themselves. There had been reports of scuple with other 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:57.080 people in public. There were indications that they were involved 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.919 in some drug deals in drug trade. Law enforcements yet 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.239 to say if the extensive marijuana crew operation they found 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.360 is connected to the death, And now two years after 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.320 the arrests, the residents of Piked in Ohio are conflicted 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.880 about what really happened on the early morning of April 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:16.360 twenty sixteen. I think there's more to it, and I 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:18.480 don't know if we'll ever get to treat about it, 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:24.919 to be honest with yet. This is the Piked and 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:36.560 Massacre Episode four alternate theories. In the last episode, we 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.440 examine the motive that authorities believe lie at the center 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.400 of the brutal killings of eight members of the Roden family, 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.560 a feud between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin over the 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.200 custody of their two and a half year old daughter, Sophia. 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.040 Though it is important to remember that the Wagners are 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:55.000 all innocent until proven guilty, there is mounting evidence to 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:59.280 support the custody theory. Still, nearly two years after the arrests, 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.600 some sens of Pikes in Ohio are conflicted about their guilt. 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.520 You know the BCI, you know in the state of Ohio, 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.440 poor County. They're not really wanting to spend a lot 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:11.760 of money on it. Somebody did it, but it wasn't. 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.000 Now it just doesn't make sense to me if they 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.000 are innocent, because who else would do that. I wish 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.520 we knew exactly what happened. I knew people kill people 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:24.880 with her custody, but not that many people. I think 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.839 there's more to it. It's bigger than what people think 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.159 it is, and I don't know if we'll ever get 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:38.159 the truth about it. To be honest with you, that's 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.279 exactly what we're going to explore in this episode. I'm 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:45.040 Courtney Armstrong, a producer at Katie Studios. With Stephanie Lydecker 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.839 and Jeff Shane. We worked on a documentary about the 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.560 case back in twenty nineteen. One thing the three of 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:52.760 us know for sure is that the Rodents did not 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.960 deserve this by all accounts. They were just a loving 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.400 and caring family, and their loss is felt throughout the 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.440 entire community. And that's really why we want to bring 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:04.960 down only them, but the entire town of Piked injustice 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.320 and hopefully shut a light on the crime and help 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:14.560 bring everyone in some sense of closure. Following the Roden murders, 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.680 it was two and a half years before the Wagners 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.360 were arrested. In that time, many other plausible theories were 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:22.880 put forward, and there are those who believe that some 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.960 of them are credible possibilities. When we began researching the story, 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.680 we kept hearing rumblings about two of the victims. We 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.279 haven't discussed much yet. The Roden sons, Chris Junior and Frankie. 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.960 From all accounts, twenty year old Frankie was a wonderful man. 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.880 He was a devoted father and excited about his upcoming 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.760 marriage to his fiance, Hannah Gilly. Chris Junior was just 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.839 a few years younger than Frankie. Brittany, one of Chris 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.839 Junior's oldest friends, talked to Stephanie about her memories of 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.880 him growing up. When did you and Chris Junior meet 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.680 for the first time? How old were you? Guys? We 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:00.160 were young. We were either in kindergarten or first grade, 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.200 and you were friends from that day forward. Yes, we 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:07.400 actually dated first grade. He was the love of my life. 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:12.440 What did the first grade version of you love about him? 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.039 That he's a little bad noise and that's how he 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.680 always was, Like he was the guy that he's like, 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:20.960 I know, I have it all like. He was that 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:25.039 type of boy growing up. One of the things that 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.440 kept coming up when we talked to people around town 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.360 was the Roden Boys love of demolition derby. Frankie and 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:35.280 Chris Junior were very passionate about demolition derby racing. They 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.120 spent most of their time building and rebuilding these cars 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:42.000 to race in Derby's all across Ohio. We spoke to 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.760 journalist Jeff Winkler, who spent some time at Derby Races 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.040 as part of his investigation into the Roden murders. Demolition 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:51.280 derby is if you've seen it on TV, it's it 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.640 looks like chaos, and to a degree it is, but 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:56.760 it's you know, raining into people. There's a lot of 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:58.920 loud noises, and there's a lot of concrete flying, and 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.720 there's fires, smoke and dirt, and it's exciting and fun 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.560 and people who love it love it. The Rodents were 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.040 deeply involved in demolition derbies in the area. They were 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:12.560 very much part of that culture. But demolition derbies are 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.880 are really intense. You're smashing each other, I mean, emotions 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.760 get high. Jeff told us about one derby that Chris 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.920 Junior and Frankie participated in in May of twenty fifteen 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.240 that ended in a bloody altercation. Based on what's been 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.600 reported and the court documents, I think it's fair to 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.880 say that Frankie and Chris Junior, I mean definitely were 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:36.280 hotheads and definitely got into fights here and there. They 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:40.520 had an incident with a fellow named Tommy Gorman, who 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:45.920 was a rival in the demolition derbys. They got into 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.360 a bit of a sort of heated match and there 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.040 was a believe a sort of incident on the track. 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:52.960 They got up to stay with each other's in bad blood, 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.840 and then again it's you know, kind of picked up 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.800 speed with Facebook posts about sort of consulting each other, 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:03.760 and then of course Chris Junior Frankie drove over to 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:09.040 Gorman's house and proceeded to really beat on Gorman and 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:13.480 his father, and the fights and beatings were only really 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.400 broken up after the grandfather came out and pumped a 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:23.520 few shotgun shells into the air. According to reports, the 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:26.200 Rodents showed up with a dozen friends and proceeded to 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.200 brutally assault Tommy Junior and even knocked out his father, 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.120 Tommy Senior's front teeth in the aftermath of the fight. 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.640 Frankie was arrested and sentenced to less than a year's 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.720 probation for the attack. Chris Junior was a juvenile at 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:40.840 the time of the attack, and no court records are 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:45.600 available that charges made against him. Here's our producer Jeff 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.120 Shane speaking to Jeff Winkler and was Tommy and his family. 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:50.920 Were they ever looked at a suspects do you know, like, 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.240 did the sheriff ever interview them or see if they 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.720 were involved. I mean, the press had had talked to 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:59.040 the Gorman family after hearing about these fights, you know, 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.360 on Facebook, but far as I know, the law enforcement 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.640 never really approached them. While the Gorman's admitted to reporters 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:08.600 that there was some bad blood between them and the 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.760 Rodent family, it was not enough to retaliate and certainly 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.960 not enough to kill over. In fact, the Gorman family 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:18.160 were never suspects in the investigation, but there were more 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:24.360 people to look into as our investigation unfolded, so too 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:26.679 to the list of people who could have wanted payback 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:30.080 on the Rodents. Take Rusty Mongold, another local kid who 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.920 had gotten into an altercation with Chris Junior just two 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:36.200 weeks before the Rodents were murdered. Long gold Head posted 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.560 on Facebook that Chris Junior hid him with a car 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.600 and in his message, you know, he uses some pretty 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:44.800 tough language. I mean, Rusty was nineteen at the time, 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.400 and you know he's talking about I'm going to break 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.800 his fucking legs and curb stop his ass, and I 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.720 mean just sort of sort of nineteen year old bluster. Really, 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:59.560 the Rusty Mongold thing happened just two weeks before the murders, 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.920 so I mean, I think this was pretty obvious that 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:05.920 the investigators had to check that out. And of course 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:10.679 he got pulled over and was detained and even did 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:15.120 a DNA sample, But it was pretty clear that you'd 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.160 nothing to do with it. But you know, that kind 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.199 of language is certainly going to grab the attention of 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:25.120 the authorities, especially after something like this. But the authorities 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.320 finding no clear link between Rusty Mongold, the Gorman family, 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:30.640 and the road and murders, the feeling around Piketon was 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.880 still ominous. No one knew who could be responsible for 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.920 the mass murder, or even if the responsible parties lived 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:42.559 next door. Jeff Winkler fills us in on yet another 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.360 incident that happened leading up to the murders, according to 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:49.560 court documents, on February twenty fourth, and this was two 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:51.880 months before the murders, so two months before the murders. 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:56.320 In late February, Chris Junior was involved in a road 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.640 rage incident with a thirty three year old woman named 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.280 repect Allen. Apparents of the court records Rebecca had slapped 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.320 Chris Junior in the face, but she also made threats 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:10.560 against him and his mother, Dana, which were recorded on 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:15.960 a cell phone. Here's what we know about this. Dana Roden, 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.839 Chris Junior's mom, got involved as well, and Rebecca Allen 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.560 ultimately got two years probation, forty hours of community service, 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.079 and a restraining order against contacting Chris Junior and Dana Roden. 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:30.319 This was on April twentieth, twenty sixteen, one day before 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:36.280 the murders took place. There were definitely some scrapes, some posturing, 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.079 and yeah, some social media threats, But is that really 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.480 motive enough to murder eight people? Of course not, But 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.000 the timing of it is interesting. You know, as we 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.960 try to understand what's happened, it's important to know everything 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.840 this family was going through up until the murders, because 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.040 we don't know what's important until we know it's important. 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.480 But going back to Rebecca Allen and the road rage 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.000 incident for just one second. Leonard Manley, Danna's father, who 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.800 at this point was just trying to cope with the tragedy, 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.520 was quoted in the news as saying that Rebecca Allen 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:10.000 should be looked into with regards to the massacre Dania 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.800 Roden's family. The Manlies were deeply entrenched in the Rodent's 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.080 day to day lives and they were a key piece 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.320 of the investigation at first. Bobby Joe Manley, for example, 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.560 she's the one who discovered their bodies and also made 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:27.240 that first nine one one call. Here's investigative reporter Jodi Barr. 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.360 The days after this, the nine when one calls were 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.240 beginning to be produced, so then you could get a 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.880 picture of what happened that morning that you know, a 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.480 family member went into the first home and found the 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:50.280 first two dead, Gary and Chris Senior. Okay, that's idea. Okay, 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:59.800 what's your name my Bobby Stry, Yeah, what's your name? Christler? 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.240 That was Bobby Joe Manly. You hear about James Manley 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.439 going over to Dana's house, finding his sister, dad, his 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:19.559 niece and nephew. So you start getting some more pieces 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.000 to put together in this puzzle, and then you realize, well, 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:27.360 wait a minute, why were they there? Police want to 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.280 know that too. We found out from Lynn Manly that's 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:36.040 Dana Rodin's father, James Manley's father. That Bobby Joe and 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.840 James were both taken down into the Pike County Sheriff's 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.520 office and interrogated. So from the outset, when you look 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.040 at that and you go, well, obviously they had two 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.400 people in mind. These were the two people who made 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.520 the initial finds of the bodies that morning and made 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.679 those nine on one cause. And then we had gotten 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:58.520 word that investigators wanted to know who paid them to 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:04.600 murder their own family. Over the next few weeks, Bobby 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.760 Joe Manley has questioned several times these people are not 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.600 only being looked at in murder suspects, they're going through 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:15.640 the entire process. They're being interrogated, they're given polygraphs. I 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.520 can tell you I spoke with Bobby Joe Manley on 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.800 the porch of her father's home and she was She 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.000 told me that she was given three polygraph tests and 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:31.200 passed every one. As the suspicion surrounding Bobby Joe subsides, 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.520 authorities began taking a closer look at James Manley, and 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.080 it's not too long before they make a stunning discovery 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.440 about who he talked to on the night of the murders. 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.960 In the overnight hours at two am. This would have 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.440 been just for all we know, minutes before the murders 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:47.720 two in the morning. I mean the bodies were found, 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.120 you know, at sun up, but that at two in 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:55.600 the morning, James was texting with Jake Wagner. Jake obviously 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:00.880 now charged in these murders. We didn't know the context 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.480 of those texts, but we do know that happened, and 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:10.440 you know, just strange suspicions. And then James Manly took 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:18.040 a polygraph and failed that. We're going to take a 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:24.320 quick break here, we'll be back in a moment. Like 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.120 many of us, you might think identity theft will never 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.520 happen to you, but consider this. There's a new identity 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.760 theft victim every three seconds in the US. 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My 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.360 partner abducted our six year old son and took him 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.760 out of the country. This was a mother's worst nightmare. 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:46.199 I didn't know what to do, and we'll stop at nothing. 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.399 I knew something bad for the children they love. This 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:52.480 is the mission to get the child back. I was 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.560 so scared I would have to disguise myself to get him. 0:18:55.720 --> 0:19:00.119 You're not keeping my child for incredible heart racing story. 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.240 I'm not a detective. I just wanted my family back together. 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.480 I had to live a double life to save my son. 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:07.879 This is the last chance to get my kids back, 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:09.960 and that's when I'll help breaks loose. There has to 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.720 be away, Go Go, Go. Experience the stunning new true 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:18.960 crime docuseries Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:22.960 mess with the wrong mother. Now streaming only on Whoever 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:35.800 Search Mother Undercover Here again is Jodie Barr commenting on 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.720 James Manley's failed polygraph. I don't know what to make 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.360 of that. You know what that means, failing a polygraph. 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:43.600 I have no idea because we don't know the questions 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:49.840 were asked without sufficient evidence to charge him. James Manley 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.080 is released, but police continue to keep an eye on him. 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:55.800 Something to think about is that no arrests were made 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.200 after this questioning or the alleged polygraph failure, So it's 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.600 not like the police found some sort of smoking gun 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.760 that implicated him in the crimes. Furthermore, in the state 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:08.960 of Ohio, polygraphic examinations are admitted under limited circumstances in 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.320 the court of law. In the state. Only if all parties, 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.960 including the defendant, defense attorney, and the prosecutor, agree in 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.760 advance to the admissibility of the results, will the court 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.800 be inclined to admit them. Plus, it's really not uncommon 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:26.400 for immediate family members, particularly those who have discovered bodies, 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.960 to be considered air quotes suspects at first. It's just 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.520 a natural place for most investigations to begin. All that's said, 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:35.719 I can only imagine how difficult that must have been 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.040 for the manlies. We found out later that you know, 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.240 he was. It was some respects a potential target of 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:46.880 the investigation because we know that investigators put a GPS 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:51.920 device underneath James Manley's pickup truck and for whatever reasons 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.639 they follow need to track him. And then James many 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:59.280 finds that this GPS tracker attached to the underside of 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:03.040 his pickup truck, he rips that off, and then he's 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:09.399 arrested for doing that. This all happens in May of 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:13.040 twenty seventeen, three hundred and ninety days after James Manley's 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.600 sister and her family were murdered. He's charged with two felonies, 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.159 tampering with evidence and vandalism, both counts for removing the 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.320 tracking device on his car. I can remember, you know, 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.399 getting that news late late in the day and driving 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.760 straight to Ross County, Ohio to the jail where James 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:34.359 Manley was booked and you know, being held overnight or 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:36.840 waiting a bond hearing. But on the way there, you're 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:40.040 trying to replay these conversations in your mind that you know, 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:43.399 what were the scenarios that involved James. Why is there 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:47.800 a GPS tracker on the brother of the a dead family. 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:51.760 I mean, this was hitting really close to home. So again, 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.840 every trip to Pike County was this cloud of suspicion 0:21:56.000 --> 0:22:00.359 and confusion. You wonder if they arrested him on those 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:02.240 charges to try to just bring him in and hopes 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:04.240 that they would then question him and he would admit 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:07.560 to something murder related. You know, that was a suspicion. 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.119 You know, it's like, man, where is this going to 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:14.080 end up? You know, because the story is horrible and 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:19.479 horrific enough. But six days after his arrest, the charges 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:24.040 against James Manley are dismissed. It's another dead end for investigators. 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.399 Another leading theory at the time was the involvement with 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.480 the drug cartel. The Rodents did have marijuana growing on 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.040 their property, and it was not just a few plants 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:37.520 here and there in the window. It was a lot. 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:41.440 A law enforcement source has confirmed that investigators found some 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.879 two hundred marijuana plants on all of the properties. The 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.080 same source said that the size of the operation indicates 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:49.760 it was being grown for sale and not for personal use. 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.840 And just to put that into perspective, each plant could 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:55.600 produce around one pound of marijuana and a pound of 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:58.080 high grade quality marijuana had a street value of around 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:00.399 two thousand dollars at the time, meaning that the Rodents 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.040 had in their possession four hundred thousand dollars worth of marijuana. 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:06.800 I think it's worth noting also that the unemployment rate 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:09.840 and PIKED in Ohio is one hundred and fifteen percent 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:12.840 higher than the national average, and I share that simply 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:15.280 to say, by all accounts, the Rodents were very hard 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:18.480 working people, and the fact that there was this marijuana 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:23.000 grow operation in their backyard kind of erased the entire investigation, 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:25.280 as if the Rodent family was just a bunch of 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:29.320 drug dealers who had it coming, and based on our research, 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:32.520 that really doesn't add up. It should be noted that 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:35.639 around the same time as the murders, marijuana was being 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:38.680 legalized for medicinal use in the state of Ohio, So 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:41.400 in theory, the Rodents could have been growing the crop 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:44.800 to be distributed for people who were prescribed marijuana legally 0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:48.120