1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? Now streaming only 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: on Hulu, experience a race against time by four mothers 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: who went undercover. My ex partner abducted our six year 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: old son and took him out of the country. This 5 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: was a mother's worst nightmare, and we'll stop at nothing. 6 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: I knew something bad at for the children they love. 7 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: I was so scared, and that's when all hell breaks loose. 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you mess with 9 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: the wrong mother. Now streaming oh Man, Hulu search Mother Undercover. 10 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: He'll forget about the video game you gave him on 11 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: his birthday. Wow, thanks Grandpa. But he'll never forget how 12 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: you invested in his future with the unstapp. Wow, thanks Grandpa. 13 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 1: The unstap makes it easy for grandparents and family friends 14 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: to give funds to a child's investment account for a 15 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: limited time. Download the unstapp and use the code I 16 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: Heart fifty aet sign up to receive a fifty dollar 17 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: bonus when you find your account. That's code I heard fifty. 18 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: When you sign up at unest dot COO for fifty 19 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: dollars bonus. See terms and conditions at Unest dots EO. 20 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: Have you cut the chord and are feeling bored with 21 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: your streaming services. Curiosity Stream can help with thousands of 22 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: documentary films and TV shows. Let curiosity Stream put the 23 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: science back in your screen time. Astound you with history, 24 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: come to life and wildlife that will reach out and 25 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: grab you. We've got the fix for your nonfiction fascination 26 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: with monthly, annual, and bundled plans. Find one for you 27 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: at curiosity stream dot com. Reasons to use get Around 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: the most awesomest car sharing app in the world, number sixteen, 29 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: rates as low as five bucks an hour. I rented 30 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: this car from get Around for less than the price 31 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: of that coffee you're drinking a lot say less, really, 32 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: come on, that's a softol down the middle. With get Around, 33 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: you only pay for the time you need with rates 34 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: starting at just five bucks an hour, so you can 35 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: get moving on a budget. Get Around Just book on 36 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: lock to drive, say twenty five dollars on your first 37 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: Get Around trip with code affordable twenty five supply. Welcome 38 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: to the piked In Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and 39 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: Katie Studios, four members of the Wagner family are in 40 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,239 Speaker 1: prison awaiting death penalty trials for the murder of eight 41 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: members of the Rodan family. Four suspense are Billy and 42 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner and their sons George. The fourth day. These 43 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: four individuals are now in custody for alleged late committing 44 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: this heartless, ruthless, cold blooded murder. Two others have been 45 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: charged with helping to cover up the grizzly crime rider 46 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: Joe Nukam and Fredrik Kirol Wagner under house arrest connected 47 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: to the killings of eight members of the Rodan family 48 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: to judges said bond and one hundred thousand dollars. But 49 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: while Ohio's largest murder investigation brings the alleged killers to 50 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: stand trial, it also raises some unsettling questions about the 51 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: victims themselves. There had been reports of scuple with other 52 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: people in public. There were indications that they were involved 53 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: in some drug deals in drug trade. Law enforcements yet 54 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 1: to say if the extensive marijuana crew operation they found 55 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: is connected to the death, And now two years after 56 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: the arrests, the residents of Piked in Ohio are conflicted 57 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: about what really happened on the early morning of April 58 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. I think there's more to it, and I 59 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: don't know if we'll ever get to treat about it, 60 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: to be honest with yet. This is the Piked and 61 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: Massacre Episode four alternate theories. In the last episode, we 62 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: examine the motive that authorities believe lie at the center 63 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: of the brutal killings of eight members of the Roden family, 64 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: a feud between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin over the 65 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: custody of their two and a half year old daughter, Sophia. 66 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: Though it is important to remember that the Wagners are 67 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: all innocent until proven guilty, there is mounting evidence to 68 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: support the custody theory. Still, nearly two years after the arrests, 69 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: some sens of Pikes in Ohio are conflicted about their guilt. 70 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: You know the BCI, you know in the state of Ohio, 71 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: poor County. They're not really wanting to spend a lot 72 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: of money on it. Somebody did it, but it wasn't. 73 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: Now it just doesn't make sense to me if they 74 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: are innocent, because who else would do that. I wish 75 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: we knew exactly what happened. I knew people kill people 76 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: with her custody, but not that many people. I think 77 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: there's more to it. It's bigger than what people think 78 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: it is, and I don't know if we'll ever get 79 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: the truth about it. To be honest with you, that's 80 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: exactly what we're going to explore in this episode. I'm 81 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong, a producer at Katie Studios. With Stephanie Lydecker 82 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: and Jeff Shane. We worked on a documentary about the 83 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: case back in twenty nineteen. One thing the three of 84 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: us know for sure is that the Rodents did not 85 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: deserve this by all accounts. They were just a loving 86 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: and caring family, and their loss is felt throughout the 87 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: entire community. And that's really why we want to bring 88 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: down only them, but the entire town of Piked injustice 89 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: and hopefully shut a light on the crime and help 90 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: bring everyone in some sense of closure. Following the Roden murders, 91 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: it was two and a half years before the Wagners 92 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: were arrested. In that time, many other plausible theories were 93 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: put forward, and there are those who believe that some 94 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: of them are credible possibilities. When we began researching the story, 95 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: we kept hearing rumblings about two of the victims. We 96 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: haven't discussed much yet. The Roden sons, Chris Junior and Frankie. 97 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: From all accounts, twenty year old Frankie was a wonderful man. 98 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: He was a devoted father and excited about his upcoming 99 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: marriage to his fiance, Hannah Gilly. Chris Junior was just 100 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: a few years younger than Frankie. Brittany, one of Chris 101 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: Junior's oldest friends, talked to Stephanie about her memories of 102 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: him growing up. When did you and Chris Junior meet 103 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: for the first time? How old were you? Guys? We 104 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: were young. We were either in kindergarten or first grade, 105 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: and you were friends from that day forward. Yes, we 106 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: actually dated first grade. He was the love of my life. 107 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: What did the first grade version of you love about him? 108 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: That he's a little bad noise and that's how he 109 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: always was, Like he was the guy that he's like, 110 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: I know, I have it all like. He was that 111 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: type of boy growing up. One of the things that 112 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: kept coming up when we talked to people around town 113 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: was the Roden Boys love of demolition derby. Frankie and 114 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: Chris Junior were very passionate about demolition derby racing. They 115 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: spent most of their time building and rebuilding these cars 116 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: to race in Derby's all across Ohio. We spoke to 117 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: journalist Jeff Winkler, who spent some time at Derby Races 118 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: as part of his investigation into the Roden murders. Demolition 119 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: derby is if you've seen it on TV, it's it 120 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: looks like chaos, and to a degree it is, but 121 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: it's you know, raining into people. There's a lot of 122 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: loud noises, and there's a lot of concrete flying, and 123 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: there's fires, smoke and dirt, and it's exciting and fun 124 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: and people who love it love it. The Rodents were 125 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: deeply involved in demolition derbies in the area. They were 126 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: very much part of that culture. But demolition derbies are 127 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: are really intense. You're smashing each other, I mean, emotions 128 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: get high. Jeff told us about one derby that Chris 129 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: Junior and Frankie participated in in May of twenty fifteen 130 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: that ended in a bloody altercation. Based on what's been 131 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: reported and the court documents, I think it's fair to 132 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: say that Frankie and Chris Junior, I mean definitely were 133 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: hotheads and definitely got into fights here and there. They 134 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: had an incident with a fellow named Tommy Gorman, who 135 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: was a rival in the demolition derbys. They got into 136 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: a bit of a sort of heated match and there 137 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: was a believe a sort of incident on the track. 138 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: They got up to stay with each other's in bad blood, 139 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: and then again it's you know, kind of picked up 140 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: speed with Facebook posts about sort of consulting each other, 141 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: and then of course Chris Junior Frankie drove over to 142 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: Gorman's house and proceeded to really beat on Gorman and 143 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: his father, and the fights and beatings were only really 144 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: broken up after the grandfather came out and pumped a 145 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: few shotgun shells into the air. According to reports, the 146 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: Rodents showed up with a dozen friends and proceeded to 147 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: brutally assault Tommy Junior and even knocked out his father, 148 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: Tommy Senior's front teeth in the aftermath of the fight. 149 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: Frankie was arrested and sentenced to less than a year's 150 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: probation for the attack. Chris Junior was a juvenile at 151 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: the time of the attack, and no court records are 152 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: available that charges made against him. Here's our producer Jeff 153 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: Shane speaking to Jeff Winkler and was Tommy and his family. 154 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: Were they ever looked at a suspects do you know, like, 155 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: did the sheriff ever interview them or see if they 156 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: were involved. I mean, the press had had talked to 157 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: the Gorman family after hearing about these fights, you know, 158 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: on Facebook, but far as I know, the law enforcement 159 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: never really approached them. While the Gorman's admitted to reporters 160 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: that there was some bad blood between them and the 161 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: Rodent family, it was not enough to retaliate and certainly 162 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: not enough to kill over. In fact, the Gorman family 163 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: were never suspects in the investigation, but there were more 164 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: people to look into as our investigation unfolded, so too 165 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: to the list of people who could have wanted payback 166 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: on the Rodents. Take Rusty Mongold, another local kid who 167 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: had gotten into an altercation with Chris Junior just two 168 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: weeks before the Rodents were murdered. Long gold Head posted 169 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: on Facebook that Chris Junior hid him with a car 170 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: and in his message, you know, he uses some pretty 171 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: tough language. I mean, Rusty was nineteen at the time, 172 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: and you know he's talking about I'm going to break 173 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: his fucking legs and curb stop his ass, and I 174 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: mean just sort of sort of nineteen year old bluster. Really, 175 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: the Rusty Mongold thing happened just two weeks before the murders, 176 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: so I mean, I think this was pretty obvious that 177 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: the investigators had to check that out. And of course 178 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: he got pulled over and was detained and even did 179 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: a DNA sample, But it was pretty clear that you'd 180 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. But you know, that kind 181 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 1: of language is certainly going to grab the attention of 182 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: the authorities, especially after something like this. But the authorities 183 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: finding no clear link between Rusty Mongold, the Gorman family, 184 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: and the road and murders, the feeling around Piketon was 185 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: still ominous. No one knew who could be responsible for 186 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: the mass murder, or even if the responsible parties lived 187 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 1: next door. Jeff Winkler fills us in on yet another 188 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: incident that happened leading up to the murders, according to 189 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: court documents, on February twenty fourth, and this was two 190 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: months before the murders, so two months before the murders. 191 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: In late February, Chris Junior was involved in a road 192 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: rage incident with a thirty three year old woman named 193 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: repect Allen. Apparents of the court records Rebecca had slapped 194 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: Chris Junior in the face, but she also made threats 195 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: against him and his mother, Dana, which were recorded on 196 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: a cell phone. Here's what we know about this. Dana Roden, 197 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 1: Chris Junior's mom, got involved as well, and Rebecca Allen 198 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: ultimately got two years probation, forty hours of community service, 199 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: and a restraining order against contacting Chris Junior and Dana Roden. 200 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: This was on April twentieth, twenty sixteen, one day before 201 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: the murders took place. There were definitely some scrapes, some posturing, 202 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: and yeah, some social media threats, But is that really 203 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: motive enough to murder eight people? Of course not, But 204 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: the timing of it is interesting. You know, as we 205 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: try to understand what's happened, it's important to know everything 206 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: this family was going through up until the murders, because 207 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: we don't know what's important until we know it's important. 208 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: But going back to Rebecca Allen and the road rage 209 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: incident for just one second. Leonard Manley, Danna's father, who 210 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: at this point was just trying to cope with the tragedy, 211 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: was quoted in the news as saying that Rebecca Allen 212 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: should be looked into with regards to the massacre Dania 213 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: Roden's family. The Manlies were deeply entrenched in the Rodent's 214 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: day to day lives and they were a key piece 215 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: of the investigation at first. Bobby Joe Manley, for example, 216 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: she's the one who discovered their bodies and also made 217 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: that first nine one one call. Here's investigative reporter Jodi Barr. 218 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: The days after this, the nine when one calls were 219 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: beginning to be produced, so then you could get a 220 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: picture of what happened that morning that you know, a 221 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: family member went into the first home and found the 222 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: first two dead, Gary and Chris Senior. Okay, that's idea. Okay, 223 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: what's your name my Bobby Stry, Yeah, what's your name? Christler? 224 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: That was Bobby Joe Manly. You hear about James Manley 225 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 1: going over to Dana's house, finding his sister, dad, his 226 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 1: niece and nephew. So you start getting some more pieces 227 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: to put together in this puzzle, and then you realize, well, 228 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: wait a minute, why were they there? Police want to 229 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: know that too. We found out from Lynn Manly that's 230 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: Dana Rodin's father, James Manley's father. That Bobby Joe and 231 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: James were both taken down into the Pike County Sheriff's 232 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: office and interrogated. So from the outset, when you look 233 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: at that and you go, well, obviously they had two 234 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: people in mind. These were the two people who made 235 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: the initial finds of the bodies that morning and made 236 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: those nine on one cause. And then we had gotten 237 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: word that investigators wanted to know who paid them to 238 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: murder their own family. Over the next few weeks, Bobby 239 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: Joe Manley has questioned several times these people are not 240 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: only being looked at in murder suspects, they're going through 241 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: the entire process. They're being interrogated, they're given polygraphs. I 242 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: can tell you I spoke with Bobby Joe Manley on 243 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: the porch of her father's home and she was She 244 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: told me that she was given three polygraph tests and 245 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: passed every one. As the suspicion surrounding Bobby Joe subsides, 246 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: authorities began taking a closer look at James Manley, and 247 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: it's not too long before they make a stunning discovery 248 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: about who he talked to on the night of the murders. 249 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: In the overnight hours at two am. This would have 250 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: been just for all we know, minutes before the murders 251 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: two in the morning. I mean the bodies were found, 252 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: you know, at sun up, but that at two in 253 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: the morning, James was texting with Jake Wagner. Jake obviously 254 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: now charged in these murders. We didn't know the context 255 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: of those texts, but we do know that happened, and 256 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: you know, just strange suspicions. And then James Manly took 257 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: a polygraph and failed that. We're going to take a 258 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: quick break here, we'll be back in a moment. Like 259 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: many of us, you might think identity theft will never 260 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: happen to you, but consider this. There's a new identity 261 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: theft victim every three seconds in the US. That's over 262 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: fifteen million people by the end of this year, equal 263 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: to the populations of New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago combined. 264 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: Even worse, identity theft victims often don't even know they're victims. 265 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: That's why LifeLock identity theft protection helps you identify threats, 266 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: even the ones that don't show up on a credit report, 267 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: like data breaches, fraudulent bank transactions, loan and credit card applications, 268 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: and crimes committed in your name. If your idea entity 269 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: is stolen, your own dedicated LifeLock US based restoration specialist 270 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: will work to fix it. No one can prevent all 271 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: identity theft, but LifeLock protects you in ways that you 272 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: simply can't on your own. Save up to twenty five 273 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: percent your first year at LifeLock dot com slash iHeart. 274 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: That's LifeLock dot com slash iHeart to save up to 275 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: twenty five percent. Identity theft protection starts here. He'll forget 276 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: about the video game you gave him on his birthday. Wow, 277 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: thanks grandpa, But he'll never forget how you invested in 278 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: his future. What the unstapp? Wow, thanks grandpa. Don't just 279 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: give them any gift, give them a gift that can 280 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: grow with them. Invite grandparents and family friends to contribute 281 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: to your child's future with the unstapp. Unst is an 282 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: investment account for kids that makes it easy to gift 283 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: funds that can be used for college tuition, their first home, 284 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: and more, just by sharing the link or include a 285 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: UNSQR code on party invitations for birthdays and holidays. For 286 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: a limited time, download the unst app and use the 287 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: code I Heart fifty at sign up to receive a 288 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: fifty dollars bonus when you fund your account. That's code 289 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,239 Speaker 1: I heeart fifty when you sign up at une st 290 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: dot coo for a fifty dollars bonus. See terms and 291 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: conditions at uns dot coo. Curiosity Stream is the streaming 292 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: service for people who want to know more more about 293 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: our world and beyond. Curiosity Stream has the best collection 294 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: of documentary films and TV shows and now check out 295 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: Curiosity's new series, The Real Wild West. Rolling Stone magazine 296 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: says it's the history of the West. They usually don't 297 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: teach you the an mythology of the West left out 298 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the people. American West is far more different, 299 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: far more diverse. Popould say they've never seen a black cowboy. Well, 300 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: we've been there, we've been doing it. I never really 301 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: learned about the Hispanic Mexican aspect of the story. This 302 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: is the history book, but did you know about these 303 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: other facts? Watch The Real Wild West now on Curiosity Stream. 304 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: Just go to curiosity stream dot com to sign up 305 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: or download the app now. With new titles dropping every week, 306 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: you'll never run out of things to watch, and with 307 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: monthly annual and bungled pricing plans. It's easy to find 308 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: one that works for you when your budget. Go to 309 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: curiosity stream dot com to satisfy your curiosity and sign 310 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: up today. How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? Now 311 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: streaming only on Hulu, Experience for yourself a real life 312 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: race against time by four mothers who went undercover. My 313 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 1: partner abducted our six year old son and took him 314 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: out of the country. This was a mother's worst nightmare. 315 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do, and we'll stop at nothing. 316 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: I knew something bad for the children they love. This 317 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: is the mission to get the child back. I was 318 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: so scared I would have to disguise myself to get him. 319 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: You're not keeping my child for incredible heart racing story. 320 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: I'm not a detective. I just wanted my family back together. 321 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: I had to live a double life to save my son. 322 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: This is the last chance to get my kids back, 323 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: and that's when I'll help breaks loose. There has to 324 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: be away, Go Go, Go. Experience the stunning new true 325 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: crime docuseries Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you 326 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: mess with the wrong mother. Now streaming only on Whoever 327 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: Search Mother Undercover Here again is Jodie Barr commenting on 328 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: James Manley's failed polygraph. I don't know what to make 329 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: of that. You know what that means, failing a polygraph. 330 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: I have no idea because we don't know the questions 331 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: were asked without sufficient evidence to charge him. James Manley 332 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: is released, but police continue to keep an eye on him. 333 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: Something to think about is that no arrests were made 334 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: after this questioning or the alleged polygraph failure, So it's 335 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: not like the police found some sort of smoking gun 336 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: that implicated him in the crimes. Furthermore, in the state 337 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: of Ohio, polygraphic examinations are admitted under limited circumstances in 338 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: the court of law. In the state. Only if all parties, 339 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: including the defendant, defense attorney, and the prosecutor, agree in 340 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: advance to the admissibility of the results, will the court 341 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: be inclined to admit them. Plus, it's really not uncommon 342 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: for immediate family members, particularly those who have discovered bodies, 343 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: to be considered air quotes suspects at first. It's just 344 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: a natural place for most investigations to begin. All that's said, 345 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,719 Speaker 1: I can only imagine how difficult that must have been 346 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: for the manlies. We found out later that you know, 347 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: he was. It was some respects a potential target of 348 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: the investigation because we know that investigators put a GPS 349 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: device underneath James Manley's pickup truck and for whatever reasons 350 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: they follow need to track him. And then James many 351 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: finds that this GPS tracker attached to the underside of 352 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: his pickup truck, he rips that off, and then he's 353 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: arrested for doing that. This all happens in May of 354 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, three hundred and ninety days after James Manley's 355 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: sister and her family were murdered. He's charged with two felonies, 356 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: tampering with evidence and vandalism, both counts for removing the 357 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: tracking device on his car. I can remember, you know, 358 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: getting that news late late in the day and driving 359 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: straight to Ross County, Ohio to the jail where James 360 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: Manley was booked and you know, being held overnight or 361 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: waiting a bond hearing. But on the way there, you're 362 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: trying to replay these conversations in your mind that you know, 363 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: what were the scenarios that involved James. Why is there 364 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: a GPS tracker on the brother of the a dead family. 365 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this was hitting really close to home. So again, 366 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: every trip to Pike County was this cloud of suspicion 367 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: and confusion. You wonder if they arrested him on those 368 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: charges to try to just bring him in and hopes 369 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: that they would then question him and he would admit 370 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: to something murder related. You know, that was a suspicion. 371 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: You know, it's like, man, where is this going to 372 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: end up? You know, because the story is horrible and 373 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:19,479 Speaker 1: horrific enough. But six days after his arrest, the charges 374 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: against James Manley are dismissed. It's another dead end for investigators. 375 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: Another leading theory at the time was the involvement with 376 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: the drug cartel. The Rodents did have marijuana growing on 377 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: their property, and it was not just a few plants 378 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: here and there in the window. It was a lot. 379 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: A law enforcement source has confirmed that investigators found some 380 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: two hundred marijuana plants on all of the properties. The 381 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: same source said that the size of the operation indicates 382 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: it was being grown for sale and not for personal use. 383 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: And just to put that into perspective, each plant could 384 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: produce around one pound of marijuana and a pound of 385 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: high grade quality marijuana had a street value of around 386 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: two thousand dollars at the time, meaning that the Rodents 387 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: had in their possession four hundred thousand dollars worth of marijuana. 388 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: I think it's worth noting also that the unemployment rate 389 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: and PIKED in Ohio is one hundred and fifteen percent 390 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: higher than the national average, and I share that simply 391 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: to say, by all accounts, the Rodents were very hard 392 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: working people, and the fact that there was this marijuana 393 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: grow operation in their backyard kind of erased the entire investigation, 394 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: as if the Rodent family was just a bunch of 395 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: drug dealers who had it coming, and based on our research, 396 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: that really doesn't add up. It should be noted that 397 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: around the same time as the murders, marijuana was being 398 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: legalized for medicinal use in the state of Ohio, So 399 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: in theory, the Rodents could have been growing the crop 400 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: to be distributed for people who were prescribed marijuana legally 401 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: to treat things like cancer and Alzheimer's. Also, when Jeff 402 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: and I were in Piked in the last time, somebody 403 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: said something to us in passing, and it's always sort 404 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: of stuck with me regarding the marijuana grow operation. On 405 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: the one hand, if it was a small operation, how 406 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: would that possibly come institute a drug cartel hit of 407 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: this size? Four different locations. It felt very personal. Each 408 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: crime scene seemed to tell a story of sorts, not 409 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: totally the moo of the drug cartel. In our research 410 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: on the flip, if it was a large scale operation, 411 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: they would have needed a lot of equipment, specialized lighting, 412 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: and that lighting likely would have caused a bit of 413 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: a surge in electricity that would have been noticeable by 414 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: the electric company number one and number two. It also 415 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: would have been very bright. Where they lived was a 416 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: very rural road. It's dark, there's no street lights. How 417 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 1: would a grow operation of that size go unnoticed? Yeah, 418 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: and based on all of our research, if it really 419 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: was the drug cartel, they would have killed the dogs 420 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: and the kids. They leave no one behind. I think 421 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: it's okay for us to confirm that we did find 422 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: marijuana in three locations. There's a grow operations. Our producer 423 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane spoke to investigative journalist James Pilcher, who was 424 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: in piked in just after the announcement was made. That 425 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: obviously feeled even more speculation that these were outside operators. 426 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: Possibly was as a drug deal gone bad, or was 427 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: somebody trying to take over their turf. All kinds of 428 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: rumors started to slow after that disclosure. So this idea 429 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: that like a drug cartel being a potential culprit, it 430 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: does sound crazy. The small town infiltrated by you know, 431 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: international drug dealers in the middle of Appalachian in southern Ohio. 432 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: You know, but if it turned out to be that, 433 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: we would not have been suppressed because Mexican drug cartels 434 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: had done a lot of activity in southern Ohio, in 435 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: Pike County, in Siotta County, and in Ross County. In fact, 436 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: in August twenty twelve, law enforcement officers found a major 437 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: marijuana grow site in Pike County. It had suspected ties 438 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: to a Mexican drug cartel. During that raid, officials destroyed 439 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: about twelve hundred marijuana plants and found two abandoned campsites 440 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: that they believe belonged to Mexican nationals. The main route 441 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: from southern Ohio to Columbus, which is the next biggest 442 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: city next to Cincinnati, cuts right all through there, So 443 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: you have those people coming in and out. Now, were 444 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: the rodents involved directly in the narcotics business. There were 445 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: indications that they were involved in some drug deals and 446 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: drug trade with marijuana. The Rods had attack dogs, which 447 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: again belies that all American image, which means what did 448 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: they have to hide? They had attack dogs, the security cameras, 449 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: there was a lot of security at that place. They 450 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: wanted to protect what they had. Now does that mean 451 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: that they were doing anything wrong? Not necessarily, but it 452 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: certainly raised a lot of questions. Journalist Jodie Barr walked 453 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: off through the logic of the drug cartel theory. As 454 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: the months war on, no one has been arrested, no 455 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: one charged, no people named as persons of interest. You 456 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: really started to wonder, you know, maybe this drug cartel 457 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: things there was something too that they definitely knew how 458 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: to kill people. You know, you're looking for signs of 459 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: the drug cartel, and then you find Kenneth Rowden with 460 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: what appeared to be a gunshot in the head, but 461 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: that there were dollar bills or some sort of paper 462 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: money spread around the body. Was that a sign? What 463 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: did that mean? You know, as you know a reporter, 464 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: you're steadying back trying to draw conclusion or at least 465 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: a lead from what this meant? I mean, what does 466 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: that mean? There's a body lying there with money on it, so, 467 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: of course a drug cartel. At that point in time, 468 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: you couple with the Attorney General announcing that they found 469 00:27:52,480 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: commercial grow operations, it made sense. Let's stop here for 470 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: another quick break. We'll be back in a moment. He'll 471 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: forget about the video game you gave him on his birthday. Wow, 472 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: thanks grandpa, but he'll never forget how you invested in 473 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: his future with the unst app. Wow, thanks grandpa. Don't 474 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: just give them any gift, give them a gift that 475 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: can grow with them. Invite grandparents and family friends to 476 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: contribute to your child's future with the unst app. Unst 477 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: is an investment account for kids that makes it easy 478 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: to gift funds that can be used for college tuition, 479 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: their first home, and more. Just by sharing the link 480 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: or include a UNQR code on party invitations for birthdays 481 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: and holidays. For a limited time, download the unst stapp 482 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: and use the code I Heart fifty at sign up 483 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: to receive a fifty dollars bonus when you fund your account. 484 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,479 Speaker 1: That's code I Heart fifty when you sign up at 485 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: une sto for a fifty dollars bonus. See terms and 486 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: conditions at unest dot coo. Curiosity Stream is the streaming 487 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: service built by and for people who want to know 488 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: more more about our world and beyond. Curiosity Stream has 489 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: the best collection of documentary films and TV shows about 490 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: everything from the history of human migration to the future 491 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: of space travel. With thousands of titles, curiosity has something 492 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: for everyone science, wildlife, travel, human stories, culture, and pretty 493 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: much anything you're curious about. Watch Curiosity Stream on your 494 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: TV or any digital device all around the world. Just 495 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: go to curiosity stream dot com to sign up or 496 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: download the app. Now you'll have access to brand new 497 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: titles dropping every week, filled with new discoveries and new 498 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: stories that will open your eyes to the world around us. 499 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: And with monthly, annual, and bundled pricing plans, it's easy 500 00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: to find one that works for you and your budget. 501 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: Go to curiosity stream dot com to satisfy your curiosity 502 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: and sign up today. How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? 503 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: Now streaming only on Hulu. Experience for yourself a real 504 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: life race against time by four mothers who went undercover. 505 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: My ex partner abducted our six year old son and 506 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: took him out of the country. This was a mother's 507 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: worst nightmare. I didn't know what to do, and we'll 508 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: stop at nothing. I knew something better for the children 509 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: they love. This is the mission to get the child back. 510 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: I was so scared I would have to disguise myself 511 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: to get him. You're not keeping my child for incredible 512 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: heart racing stories. I'm not a detective. I just wanted 513 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: my family back together. I had to live a double 514 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: life to save my son. This is the last chance 515 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: to get my kids back, and that's when all help 516 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: breaks loose. It has to be away. Go Go, Go. 517 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: Experience the stunning new true crime docuseries Mother Undercover. I 518 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: wanted him to know, you mess with the wrong mother, 519 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: now streaming only on whoever search Mother Undercover up. You 520 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: will fail. So what everybody does, but your jim your watch, 521 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: your yoga pants, They pretend you won't. So when you 522 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: miss a day, eat the pancakes, give up on a workout, 523 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: you failed. Seriously, What the hell we're body? We've been 524 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: a part of that too, but not anymore at body 525 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: or rejecting perfection, an embracing reality, not in a pizza 526 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: Monday kind of way, in a loving your whole life 527 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: kind of way. In this workout is fun and it's 528 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: okay if I take a week off kind of way, 529 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: in an I'm eating healthy and it's okay if I 530 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: indulge kind of way, in a I like myself. No 531 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: matter what kind of way. Yeah, you will fail, we 532 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: all will. But we're not going to let that be 533 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: the end. And see that we're already making progress. So 534 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: let's keep going. We are Body. Start your free trial 535 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: at body dot com. That's Bodi dot com. The discovery 536 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: of the Rodents grow operation didn't just complicate the case 537 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: and who might be responsible. It forced the residence of 538 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: Pyton to reconsider their feelings for the family. As soon 539 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: as Dwine and Reader made that announcement of the commercial 540 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: grow operations that appeared to change the entire public perception 541 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: of these murders. The empathy for this family, and even 542 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: the monetary donations that were coming in to help bury 543 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: these people, all of that stopped. There was a large 544 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: reward put up by Jeff Ruby, a restaurant owner in Cincinnati, 545 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: that was rescinded that day. The public support they were 546 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: getting almost vanished that day. I mean, these were eight 547 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: innocent people, and then sort of flifted on his head 548 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: that you know, these were eight people potentially involved in 549 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: some large drug operation and the people seemingly just instantly 550 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: stopped caring. And you know, all that momentum the family 551 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: had of you know, the public being interested in this 552 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: by trying to solve it, taking care of this, you know, 553 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: these kids who were left trying to bury these eight people. 554 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a large expense that vanished that day, 555 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: and that was over as soon as that announcement was made. However, 556 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: those closest to the family never believed that Cartel was 557 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: behind the murders. Is Kenneth Roden's daughter. Kenneth was that 558 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: eighth victim, the final victim found. I worked out an 559 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: interview with Kendred and her mother at their home, and 560 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: I mean, through that interview we finally got to look 561 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: at how close his family really was. Kendred just going 562 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: through her phone with her She had pictures with Hannah, 563 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: she had pictures with Chris Junior, she had pictures with Dana, 564 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: her father obviously was a large part of the photos 565 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: stored on her phone. I mean, they looked like a 566 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: normal family. I mean there was nothing in those pictures 567 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: that would indicate that, you know, a week later, eight 568 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: of these people in these pictures would no longer draw 569 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: the breath of life. Man. You just it was nothing 570 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: to indicate that. And you're looking at these pictures and 571 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,959 Speaker 1: you're looking for some clue, You're looking for that sign 572 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: from Kendrem when you're invited into her home. You saw 573 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: none of that. I mean, it was almost like, That's 574 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: why it's almost unbelievable that it even happened, because when 575 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: you look at these photographs and you talk to these people, 576 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: they're just like anybody else you'd ever talk to, a 577 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: typical rural American family who rose to this notorious, you know, 578 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: platform through the nightly news coming out and telling the 579 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: world about their darkest hour. Eight people murdered in their 580 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: homes while they slept, children spared covered with blood. And 581 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 1: it's like you try to reconcile what you saw on 582 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: those photographs and the story that Kendra Roden was telling 583 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: about this family to the picture that you now have 584 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 1: of them murdered in these homes, apparently involved in some 585 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: sort of commercial drug industry, and then you try to 586 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: put all that together. I mean, I don't know how 587 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: the hell you figure that out. It was so confusing. 588 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: So if it wasn't a drug cartel, who was it. 589 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: Let's shift our focus back to the Wagners for a minute. 590 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: Could there be other motives aside from the custs dispute 591 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin. As we found out 592 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,240 Speaker 1: from speaking to journalist Jeff Winkler, there were more connections 593 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: between the Rodens and the Wagners than just Hannah and Jake. Obviously, 594 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: the families shared a grandchild together, so there was just 595 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: a lot of interaction between the families. But as the 596 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: investigation went on, you know, there was a clear sort 597 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: of trail between Christopher Roden Senior and Bill Wagner. They 598 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: had been long time acquaintances, possibly friends, and also business partners. 599 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: They were just you know, some little boy entrepreneurs. These 600 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: are multi generational families in the same area, so yeah, 601 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 1: they just again that sort of mix of family and 602 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: friends and neighbors, business partners. It all sorts of blends 603 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: in together. Angela Wagner even had said to the press 604 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: that her and her husband and Chris Senior were longtime 605 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: friends like they were. The Wagners. Were presenting them as 606 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: close allies, and I think some of that was, of course, 607 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: is trying to, you know, sort of trade the family 608 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: as not adversarial to the Rodents. But they had something 609 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: to have fallen out before the murders. Attorney and legal 610 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: commentator Mike Allen philed us in back in mid April 611 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen. Supposedly there was a fight between 612 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: Chris Senior and Billy Wagner. Witnesses say ended with Billy 613 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 1: threatening to quote come back and finish them all. Nobody 614 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: seems to know what the fight was about or what 615 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: caused it. But you know, these two families, from everything 616 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: that I've seen, were probably not shy about taking care 617 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: of business if they felt somebody abused them or their family. 618 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: So could this all have stemmed from some kind of 619 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: business arrangement gone wrong? Though we can't be positive. One 620 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: thing we do know is that the detail of Christinior's 621 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,760 Speaker 1: autopsy seems to indicate that his death was much different 622 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: than the other seven victims. Here's James Pilcher speaking to 623 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: Jeff again. Of all the crimeses that day, like his 624 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: was known to be the worst. Yeah, he was shot 625 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: the most first of all, he was shot nine times, 626 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 1: possibly because he was trying to fight back, but possibly 627 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: because you know, the vendetta was mostly against him, or 628 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: that he was the primary target, I should say. And 629 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: then they positioned his body in a certain way and 630 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 1: actually drug his body away from where he had originally fallen, 631 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: so that gave investigators even more of an indication that 632 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: this was personal. An anonymous Wagner family relative told Jeff 633 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 1: that the situation between the Wagners and the Rodents was 634 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: reaching a boiling point. This was just before the Rodents 635 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: were found dead. I knew that they were the families Hanness, 636 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,760 Speaker 1: the Rodents and you know my family. They were fighting. 637 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: There was a lot of tension there, bad blood there, 638 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: but I never thought in a million years that they 639 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: had anything to do with that. To me, it's just 640 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: it's so overwhelming. It's there's a feeling that is almost indescribable. 641 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: It's kind of like, you know, you don't know how 642 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: to react, so you're constantly at least I am at this, 643 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: like it said, like it does a war with my emotions, 644 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: my feelings because I beloved him so much. She know 645 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,919 Speaker 1: when I care about him, and they our family, that's 646 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,439 Speaker 1: your family, So it's hard to just turn your back 647 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,320 Speaker 1: and be like, Okay, well you're a freaking monster, so 648 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: I want nothing to do with you, and I don't 649 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,879 Speaker 1: love you no more, I don't care about you no more. 650 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: So it seems like your relationship with Angela and her 651 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,839 Speaker 1: family really changed and never really was the same. Yep, 652 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: it did. It was absolutely mind blowing. I just couldn't 653 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:30,399 Speaker 1: I couldn't picture it because I knew them completely different people, 654 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,399 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I would have never 655 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: pictured Angela being capable, or or the boys of any 656 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 1: of that. When we first heard about the road and murders, 657 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: we were shocked at the brutality of it all. And 658 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: when we first got to piked In, we couldn't believe 659 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: that these murders took place in this community. But upon 660 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: speaking to residents and learning more about the town, we 661 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: discovered that the Rodents were not the first murder victims 662 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: who called piked In home. You know, if you look 663 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: back through the history of piked and there's quite a 664 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: bit of things that just happened that, you know, there's 665 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: no explanation for get swept under the rug. I don't know. 666 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: I think there's just more evil there than than just 667 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: what happened to those eight. Pike County is beautiful. It's 668 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: a beautiful place, but there's a lot of dirty people 669 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: here too. For the town that we you know the 670 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: size of our town, there's been a lot of murders 671 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: here that have not been solved. More on that next week. 672 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,800 Speaker 1: Piked and Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and 673 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,720 Speaker 1: me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by executive producer 674 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: Jared Aston. Additional producing by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker. 675 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 1: The Piked in Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and 676 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 1: Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit 677 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 678 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:16,759 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. How long was Neil Armstrong actually on 679 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 1: the Moon? When did Europe start speaking English? Did Marco 680 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: Polo really go to China? Curiosity Stream is the streaming 681 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: service for all things history, plus science, wildlife and more. 682 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: What's the real story behind the Mona, Lisa? We've got that? 683 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 1: What caused the collapse of Rome? We know? Where? Did 684 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,240 Speaker 1: we find Mankind's earliest ancestor? Come find out? From Egypt 685 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: to Weinstein Curiosity Stream is the place for history with monthly, annual, 686 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 1: and bundled plans. Find one for you at curiosity stream 687 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 1: dot com. How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? Now 688 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: streaming only on Hulu. Experience a race against time by 689 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: four mothers who went undercover. My ex partner abducted our 690 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: six year old son and took him out of the country. 691 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,919 Speaker 1: This was a mother's worst nightmare, and we'll stop at nothing. 692 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: I knew something better for the children they love. I 693 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: was so scared, and that's when all hell breaks loose. 694 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you mess with 695 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: the wrong mother. Now streaming only and Hulu search Mother Undercover. 696 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: When we protect the ocean, we protect the creatures we 697 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: love and ourselves, from sea otters to penguins to the 698 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: always grumpy looking giant sea bass. These animals need a 699 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,919 Speaker 1: healthy ocean to thrive, and so do we. It takes 700 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: a community dedicated to nurturing our favorite places to ensure 701 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: these animals big too small, as well as other crucial 702 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: sea life like help anemones and jellies can flourish, and 703 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 1: a healthy ocean helps us all join our mission to 704 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: inspire conservation of the Ocean by visiting us at Monterey 705 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 1: Bay Aquarium dot org, slash share your voice. Since her 706 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: role as White House correspondent, Caitlyn Collins has never been 707 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,840 Speaker 1: afraid to dict deep. She's a reliable, deeply sourced reporter 708 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,800 Speaker 1: and is always willing to hold the powerful accountable. On 709 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: her new CNN show, The Source with Caitlyn Collins, Caitlyn 710 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,879 Speaker 1: is bringing that to acious spirit to prime time. She's 711 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: chasing the facts, connecting with her rolodex of sources, and 712 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 1: pulling the threads of a story together right up to 713 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 1: the minute she goes live, so viewers are getting the 714 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: very latest. The Source with Caitlin Collins weeknights at nine 715 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,760 Speaker 1: pm Eastern only on CNN