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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so

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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super

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Speaker 1: guest producer, the Man the myth legend, mister Matt the Madman.

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Speaker 1: Still o urrah orrah? Indeed? Uh, you are an old

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Speaker 1: brown I am ben but.

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Speaker 2: I finally get the military exclamation right. Isn't it urah?

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Speaker 1: It is urah, but it's also hoorah depending upon which

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Speaker 1: branch of the service. Uh, you are five soldier semplified.

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Speaker 1: That would be marishings.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that would be the marine.

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Speaker 1: Yes, cool? Who's that? I ad some I have been

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Speaker 1: bold first and foremost. Yeah, we stepped on that part.

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Speaker 1: I am been bullet. We're joined with a special guest, uh,

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Speaker 1: the returning Jonathan Strickland, who has uh functioned under a

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Speaker 1: few monikers, a few aliases, a few personas Curly Joe.

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Speaker 1: He wants the curly joke.

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Speaker 3: In a previous life you would transcribe police altercation reports.

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Speaker 2: Apparently he has heard some great tales.

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Speaker 1: Mike.

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Speaker 4: Our old former coworker, Candy May used to call me Jathan.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I started baby j Baby Jay h Josh and

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Speaker 1: Chuck coll me strick Yeah Yeah. I called you big strick.

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Speaker 2: Jonathan. You can have cookie Strickland, Yeah, I am Jonathan.

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Speaker 4: You can't have cookie I'm gonna get yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you may have been the cookie in that story

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Speaker 1: because we didn't find out the full the full extent

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Speaker 1: of the annective.

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Speaker 4: That's okay though, because the listeners haven't even gotten part

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Speaker 4: of the extent of the anecdote.

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Speaker 1: Exact imagination. Y'all. It's just like Loup. It is just

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Speaker 1: likelu Looper. And speaking of Loops, we are on part

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Speaker 1: two of a continuing exploration of the US camel core.

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Speaker 1: So a quick recap previously odd, ridiculous history. We talked

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Speaker 1: about a fascinating aspect of the United States, which is

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Speaker 1: as it began to become the modern country we know

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Speaker 1: it as today. They discovered there was a vast swath

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Speaker 1: of desert, and the European forces there had no idea

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Speaker 1: how to address this. How do we move things to

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Speaker 1: the West coast in hospitable land wherein pack animals like

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Speaker 1: horses and mules will die and people and people. If

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Speaker 1: you use people as pack animals, they're going to have

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Speaker 1: a hard time.

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Speaker 3: Too, at the very least, there's going to be some

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Speaker 3: serious trudging going on, you know, sinking into the sand dunes.

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Speaker 4: So then we had some smarty pants people in the

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Speaker 4: military saying, well, if we're going to need to get

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Speaker 4: supplies across, which clearly we are, we need to rely

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Speaker 4: upon something that is well suited for desert environments. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: this was way before Doune buggies. Yeah, way before Dune,

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Speaker 4: yes exactly, although Dune itself, who knows when that actually happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, is a little loose with the timeframe.

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Speaker 2: There, thousands of years, honestly.

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Speaker 1: And so and so a couple of enthusiasts, based often

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Speaker 1: on nostalgia, went to the powers that be in this

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Speaker 1: emerging or emergent United States and they said, guys, anybody

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Speaker 1: else indy camels? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And it took quite a bit of convincing. This

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Speaker 4: was a conversation that takes place over decades, with multiple

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Speaker 4: people suggesting the possibility of bringing camels into the United

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Speaker 4: States for the purposes of addressing supply chain issues. And

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Speaker 4: it could have just been one of those things that

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Speaker 4: was a flight of fancy and never went any further. Sure,

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Speaker 4: but for the determination of a couple of people, one

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Speaker 4: of whom had the money and the other of whom

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Speaker 4: had the humpy dream.

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Speaker 3: The Humpy Dream and our Tail left off with Major

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Speaker 3: Wayne and David Dixon Porter having retrofitted a ship called

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Speaker 3: the Supply Noah's Ark style to ferry these drama dairies

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Speaker 3: to our lands spitting bars.

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Speaker 4: Spitting bars, Yeah, and they bring over. They buy thirty

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Speaker 4: three camels. They end up with thirty.

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Speaker 1: Four, and the math is difficult.

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Speaker 4: It turns out one of the camels was smuggling another camel. No,

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Speaker 4: it turned out one camel died on the way across.

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Speaker 4: Six camels were born, but only two of those survived,

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Speaker 4: leaving us with thirty four.

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Speaker 1: Which sounds like such a middle school math problem. You're

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Speaker 1: on one side of a river, you have three camels. Train.

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Speaker 1: What I always would always love about those, about those

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Speaker 1: math problems, the word math problems in school, at least

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Speaker 1: in the US, is that there is an implied, ridiculous scenario. Right.

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Speaker 1: For some, there's nothing in the paragraph that tells you

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Speaker 1: why Johnny a child has forty eight apples? What's going

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Speaker 1: on with john? Right?

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Speaker 4: But you just have to accept that reality and continue forward.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and why are these people racing on trade?

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Speaker 4: Honestly, I think it's a really valuable lesson, Like eventually

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Speaker 4: you learn that just accepting reality and moving forward sometimes

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Speaker 4: is the only way you can get through life.

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Speaker 3: So we've got thirty four camels remaining and an additional and.

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Speaker 1: It turns out that the United States government at that

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Speaker 1: point says, success, Wow, you actually brought camel's over and

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Speaker 1: you got one more than you bought and under budget.

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Speaker 4: So why don't you go back and get more of those?

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Speaker 1: That's just more camels please, And so they ordered Porter

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Speaker 1: to turn around. Immediately, he got his Ata boy to

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Speaker 1: sail back to the Middle East and to buy yet

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Speaker 1: more camels. Six months later, he has returned and he

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Speaker 1: has forty one new camels. We made an interesting point

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Speaker 1: in part one about how long it takes to travel

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Speaker 1: across the Atlantic. During the previous months while Porter and Wigne,

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Speaker 1: while they're fact finding mission, tensions in the United States

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Speaker 1: were rising, so camels became increasingly important. That's why it's

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Speaker 1: not surprising that they sent them back immediately. And again

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Speaker 1: months transpire on the on the ship on the new

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Speaker 1: camel mission. During these six months. This is the official

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Speaker 1: part two folks. During the six months, our pal Major

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Speaker 1: Wayne takes these, this first shipment of thirty four camels

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Speaker 1: out to Camp Verde and Fort Wayne, Texas, and he

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Speaker 1: has this is like the humorous act to part in

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Speaker 1: the great you know, like the hero Ernie aspect or

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Speaker 1: the what's that Disney rule that we always talked about

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Speaker 1: in improv the Pixar rule for movies.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I don't know that rule. Okay, we'll fight it.

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Speaker 3: It does feel a bit like a second act of

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Speaker 3: a heist movie that also introduces some slapstick elements.

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Speaker 1: Right right, this is a part of the heist movie.

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Speaker 1: This is really so hero's journey. Here. You got a

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Speaker 1: little humor, some levity after the tragic death of these

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Speaker 1: juvenile camels. Major Wayne out in Texas. He's got his humans,

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Speaker 1: he's got his animals. He has to figure out when

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Speaker 1: he has to figure out the following Can we use

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Speaker 1: these as transport which we always assumed. Then the military

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Speaker 1: and Congress wants to know this. Can we use this

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Speaker 1: in war? Bad news? First, Campbell's are terrible at war.

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Speaker 1: Like they have great affection, they're just it's not there.

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Speaker 4: Well, for one thing, they can't hold the cards, right, So.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't have thumbs.

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Speaker 4: So you play a camel at war, I mean, you're

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Speaker 4: always gonna win.

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Speaker 1: So I guess there's that, Jonathan, you're being silly. I'm

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Speaker 1: a little silly the card game war. Yeah you so.

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Speaker 1: Fish on the other hand, they're excellently Yeah, but they

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Speaker 1: are good at poker because of their poker face, they

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Speaker 1: look like they're always smirking. That's true.

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Speaker 4: But they also they are very good for transport like

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Speaker 4: that is that is beyond question. They know for a

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Speaker 4: fact they could use them for supply chains. But they

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Speaker 4: do experiment with the concept of perhaps a camel cavalry.

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Speaker 1: A camelvvery war camels, Yeah, on tour with camel core. Yeah, camelvry.

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Speaker 1: That's I'm just going to keep that portmanteau. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: if you look back through ancient history, there are there

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Speaker 1: are several reports I'm not going to say a lot,

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Speaker 1: but there are several reports reports of camels being used

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Speaker 1: in warfare and.

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Speaker 2: The being fitted with armor and stuff.

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Speaker 1: For one of the common descriptions you would see in

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Speaker 1: from some Greco Roman and North African historians would be

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Speaker 1: the idea that you would have two people mounted on

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Speaker 1: a camel one guy driving essentially and the other guy

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Speaker 1: on the back shooting the arrow in retreat or leaning

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Speaker 1: forward and shooting that.

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Speaker 3: Way, very similar to the idea of like war rhinocerosis

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Speaker 3: and more elephents we do know happen, But that was

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Speaker 3: almost more of a flex than it was a functional maneuver.

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Speaker 1: That was a little more shocking. All now, we do

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Speaker 1: know that camels in the past could be used as

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Speaker 1: a cavalry to drive a wedge and break a line

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Speaker 1: of opposing forces. But all they were at that point

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Speaker 1: there were a V shaped agent of chaos.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they might spit up on them, you know, I

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Speaker 3: could see how they could be useful in a psychological

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Speaker 3: warfare way because.

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Speaker 1: If you see it freaky looking, if you see.

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Speaker 4: A force approaching you on camelback. First of all, they're

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Speaker 4: not going to be in a uniform kind of unit.

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Speaker 4: You're just gonna look and think, well, I have no

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Speaker 4: idea what these mother flippers are going to be doing

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Speaker 4: to us.

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Speaker 2: These people are insane right exactly.

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Speaker 1: Next, it's like the guy who right before a bar fight,

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Speaker 1: breaks the bottle over his own head man that says,

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Speaker 1: let's go.

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Speaker 2: You know what, I mean or like puts a cigarette

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Speaker 2: out on his own tongue or yeah, and then.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be like Tuco from Breaking.

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Speaker 2: Back, Yes, exactly, like Tucco or.

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Speaker 1: Also Looper, yeah, or my friend Darren from Chili's Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Chili's the restaurant, or Chile of the country, Chili's the restaurant.

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Speaker 1: Got yeah, Darren still works there.

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Speaker 2: Did you know that I did not?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's a parole thing. Anyway. There's also

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Speaker 1: this aspect that camels are surprisingly fast for the way

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Speaker 1: they look. They can exceed forty to forty five miles

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Speaker 1: an hour.

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Speaker 3: Once again, just a reminder for people who didn't listen

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Speaker 3: to part one, in which case, shame on you. You're going

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Speaker 3: to be completely lost. Please go back and do that.

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Speaker 3: We are coming to you from Doha Guitar, where camel

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Speaker 3: racing is big the GCC.

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Speaker 1: And we also we know that we know that camels

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Speaker 1: weren't very good at warfare because once you get okay

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Speaker 1: so you can run, you can cause chaos once you

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Speaker 1: get into the fray. Your faithful camel, no matter how

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Speaker 1: much they love you, they're kind of gangly. Like we

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Speaker 1: talked about in part one, they're not super nimble like

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Speaker 1: an Arabian horse for instance, and they're mounted so high

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Speaker 1: that when you want, you know, calvalry wants the height advantage,

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Speaker 1: but there's a goldilock zone, so if.

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Speaker 2: You're too within sword reaches.

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Speaker 1: So then can you imagine the bloody slapstick when some guys,

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Speaker 1: the guys trying to be camel cavalry for the first

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Speaker 1: leaning over too far off the side.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love the move where the whole saddle flips

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Speaker 3: upside down and then they're just mounted underneath the camel

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Speaker 3: with their like camel balls hitting them in the face.

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Speaker 1: Also, it turns out camels are not the bravest of mounts,

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Speaker 1: so I.

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Speaker 3: Can see not sorry about the camel balls comment. Guys

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean to put that image carry I.

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Speaker 4: Was trying to move on. It's I was really trying.

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Speaker 1: It really a delicacy in some someplace, So I hear

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Speaker 1: like the hump no anyway, Yeah, so so not the

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Speaker 1: bravest amounts. So also not very useful if you're going

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Speaker 1: to ride into an active war zone and you know

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Speaker 1: they they don't smell so nice. So soldiers were not

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Speaker 1: very keen on spending a whole lot of time. They're

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Speaker 1: fine with them carrying their stuff, right, Not so much

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Speaker 1: with like riding on on the back of a camel

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Speaker 1: where they present a tempting target, they can't reach their opponent,

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Speaker 1: and the camel is like, I really don't want to

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Speaker 1: be here. And and the horses also, and the mules, uh,

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Speaker 1: these are American horses and mules. They've never seen a camel.

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Speaker 1: It smells different. They are not on board. So that's

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Speaker 1: the thing. The soldiers, No, you don't want to camel

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Speaker 1: blame here or be unfair to the soldiers. Camel right.

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Speaker 1: The soldiers here also said the camels had a terrible attitude.

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Speaker 1: We mentioned it part one. Camels are sassy. They got

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Speaker 1: sass and they the guys who were trying to train

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Speaker 1: with these camels, they did not have the you know,

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Speaker 1: they didn't roll high on animal handling and D and D.

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Speaker 1: These guys were not Steve Irwin. No like hurting cats

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Speaker 1: more than training a you know, a horse. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it would take to it as well. They were attempting

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Speaker 1: to go heavy on the sticks rather than the carrots

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Speaker 1: when they were trying to train camels, and camels didn't

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Speaker 1: take that. Camels have the size of che Camels were

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Speaker 1: spitting on people. Side to camel spit.

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Speaker 3: As nasty as the other thing they would do, not

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Speaker 3: as nasty.

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Speaker 1: As the other thing they do, which the bite was.

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Speaker 1: The bite was super serious because don't let the smirk

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Speaker 1: fool you. That bite comes quickly. And then they also

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Speaker 1: what sometimes kicks laughing because they would kick soldiers down

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Speaker 1: to the ground and then they would they would excrete,

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Speaker 1: urine or feces on them in a very purposeful move.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awful.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So then you have soldiers on the runs.

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Speaker 2: Would you be furious if that happened to you. I

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Speaker 2: would never trust a camel again, I think. I think

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Speaker 2: once I got over the horror being horrified, can you

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Speaker 2: imagine being spit on, bitten and then pooped and pede on? Well,

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Speaker 2: I mean not for less than fifty bucks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's like what's their discout? And so there's

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Speaker 1: an app for it. So as far as the cavalry goes,

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Speaker 1: the military quickly realizes, all right, cavalry, that's gonna be horses.

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Speaker 1: But they did have good news. They had some great news. Actually,

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Speaker 1: camels were fantastic pack animals. They could carry way more

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Speaker 1: they didn't need uh they it needs near as much

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Speaker 1: actual TLC.

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Speaker 3: They're good at walking in a line, you know, when

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Speaker 3: you point them in the direction. Isn't it funny?

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Speaker 1: Though?

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Speaker 3: And so like the government to like Mission Creep their

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Speaker 3: way from like the whole idea was these are going

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Speaker 3: to be transport.

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Speaker 2: Why don't we try them out in common? Let's just

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Speaker 2: get more bang for the buck.

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Speaker 4: I honestly think most of human history is someone looking

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Speaker 4: at an animal and first asking I wonder if I

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Speaker 4: can eat it? And they're thinking I wonder if I

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Speaker 4: could write on it.

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Speaker 1: Well that's probably what they did with Neanderthals as well,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, but also I thought you were going

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Speaker 1: to say something I very much agree with with the

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Speaker 1: whole story of human history is mission creep. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know that's also true. Guys like what I come down

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Speaker 1: from the tree, you know what I mean? And now

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Speaker 1: we have velcro and someone went to the moon. What

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Speaker 1: if you didn't publish another episode per week? So yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: this is okay. So this is this is crazy because

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Speaker 1: this is an emotional roller coaster for Wayne, it is

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Speaker 1: for us too. Yeah he uh, he is finally getting

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Speaker 1: good news out out to our producers here, Matt Max,

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Speaker 1: we get like a good news sound cube back in

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Speaker 1: the high life again, can we get the rights to that?

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Speaker 1: I feel that maybe the warren zevn version, which I

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Speaker 1: think is superior to the originals air looked so okay,

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Speaker 1: So they have that moment. And these guys, the camels,

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Speaker 1: I mean, have a bunch higher tolerance for heat. They

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Speaker 1: actually need less water and food.

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Speaker 3: And again we did bust the myth and the hump

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Speaker 3: of the hump being you know, filled with water. I

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Speaker 3: think I kind of wonder people are like, you know,

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Speaker 3: are camels like animal versions of cacti, because we know

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Speaker 3: cacti do retain a lot of water. But the camels,

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Speaker 3: it's more that they have these fat reserves yea, and

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Speaker 3: they are able to store a lot of caloric energy cereal,

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Speaker 3: but not like water.

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Speaker 1: And this they also this is a point I don't

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Speaker 1: know about you guys. I didn't think about this. Camels

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Speaker 1: did not unlike horses and mules. You don't have to

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Speaker 1: shoe a camel. You don't have to put horseshoes or

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Speaker 1: mule shoes on them. They already have the clown feet

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Speaker 1: that have evolved to go through the harsh cliche.

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Speaker 3: Well, exactly, you say clown shoes because they do have

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Speaker 3: a lot of surface area, which is very important, so

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Speaker 3: they don't sink into the dunes. Because a horse it's

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Speaker 3: a much kind of pointier hoof, right, and the camel

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Speaker 3: hoof is much broader and it creates like a padding

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Speaker 3: almost so that it's Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So in our first episode we talked about how there

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Speaker 4: have been multiple studies trying to justify the the great

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Speaker 4: effort it would take in order to transport camels in

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Speaker 4: the nineteenth century over to the United States. Now we

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Speaker 4: actually have a situation where the camels have been active

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Speaker 4: in the United States.

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Speaker 1: So what's the result, def conc we have active camels,

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Speaker 1: we have camel.

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Speaker 4: Camel is, camel is out on field.

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Speaker 2: The camels have hit the fan.

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Speaker 1: Right, So are we going to do something worthwhile with this?

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Speaker 1: Or we like are we like the Gary Larson cartoon

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Speaker 1: of the dog who finally catches the car? Right? This

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Speaker 1: is a reference that does not occur to Major Wayne

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Speaker 1: because Gary Larson in the far side are not a

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Speaker 1: thing yet, be super excited and he writes, you know, everybody,

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Speaker 1: do check out part one. He's one of the guys

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Speaker 1: who made a study study. It was a it was

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Speaker 1: kind of a fan mail letter based in fact, a little.

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Speaker 2: Bit of fans fiction, you know, woven in there for

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Speaker 2: got a little.

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Speaker 1: Erotic I'm little little slash fiction lit. Little shipping. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's ship of the desert.

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Speaker 4: Let's let's not put in too much misinformation in this episode.

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Speaker 3: Okay, guys, all right, okay, but it is true that

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Speaker 3: Major Wayne is excited. In October of eighteen fifty six,

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Speaker 3: he wrote that the usefulness of the camels in the

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Speaker 3: interior of the country is no longer a question here

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Speaker 3: in Texas.

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Speaker 1: Among those who have seen them at work or examined

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Speaker 1: them with a tension, which it's.

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Speaker 4: The only way you can examine them, they demand it.

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Speaker 1: They do. Oh yeah, okay, good ver. Somebody wrote to

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Speaker 1: me earlier and they said, you know, I love you

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Speaker 1: guys show, but I feel like sometimes Jonathan is dismissive

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Speaker 1: of camels. And they said, no, he examines them with attention.

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Speaker 1: I do. I do.

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Speaker 2: He's a member of the camel level, both the animal

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Speaker 2: and the carrying.

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Speaker 1: So this idea is picking up steam.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: If we go to the National Park Service, we'll see

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Speaker 1: that they describe how this became slowly of interest to

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Speaker 1: civilians as well. We see a lot of technology come

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Speaker 1: from military applications and then later go to early adopters

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Speaker 1: in the world or the civil world, and not the war,

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Speaker 1: the Civil war world, right, and so civilians polite society. Yes,

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Speaker 1: well we're still talking gold Rush, not that polite, okay, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it's after the gold Rush. Citizens of the US

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Speaker 1: are starting to say, hey, we need you to build

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Speaker 1: a road west, and a few very clever guys are

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Speaker 1: clocking the existence of this thing called the camel. In

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifty seven, a i'll say it, legendarily bad president

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Speaker 1: overall named James Buchanan almost said President James Buchanan again,

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Speaker 1: as though his first name was president. Do you think

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Speaker 1: anybody there's some there are billions of people someone has

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Speaker 1: the real first name president, just.

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Speaker 2: Like major major, major major.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, shout out to Heller, right, yeah yeah, catch

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Speaker 1: twenty two. So all right, this guy, President James Buchanan

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Speaker 1: appoints a guy named Edward Beale to build a road

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Speaker 1: from Fort Smith, Arkansas to California. It's a long row, yes, yep.

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Speaker 3: And he's already got a good reputation for his uh

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Speaker 3: involvement in the Mexican American War, as well as being

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Speaker 3: the person who brought the very first golden nugget from

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Speaker 3: California all the way to Washington, actual nugget, not the casino,

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Speaker 3: but he had a whole.

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Speaker 2: Song about it. I got a golden.

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Speaker 1: Nugg is the one where you bite on it? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, make sure there's a little ten noise that makes Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh, because gold is quite ductile. Indeed, that's my one

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Speaker 1: fact I know about gold. That means you can pull

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Speaker 1: it into like wire morgage. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So so wait a minute, okay, let me let me

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Speaker 2: ask you this question.

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Speaker 1: Then.

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Speaker 4: All right, So we've we've had this whole effort to

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Speaker 4: bring the camels over. We've had success in the application

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Speaker 4: of using camels to move supplies around. We've got the

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Speaker 4: interest of civilians making use of camels. So where where

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Speaker 4: to heck the camels? Then, guys? I mean, we brought

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Speaker 4: horses over to the North America in the sixteenth century.

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Speaker 4: They they flourished. Are they about to abandon the camels? Guys,

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm asking. Oh, well, well, I hear it's

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Speaker 4: really hard to give up camels.

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Speaker 2: I know you can it's hard to quit those camels. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you gotta have like a camel patch.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, horse camel got stop yeah, camel teen uh

401
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Speaker 1: they call it. Yeah, that's a great question, Jonathan, because

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Speaker 1: for a while it seemed like camels were going to

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Speaker 1: be you know, horse two point oh to put it

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Speaker 1: in corporate parla, camels arrive in Los Angeles. It's December

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifty seven. You know, people are still very into

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Speaker 1: this westward expansionized camels are coming. They say, yes, they

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Speaker 1: really do say the camels are coming, and they're like

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Speaker 1: celebrities kind of people are gathering to witness the arrival

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Speaker 1: of the camel like the Beatles, like the British invasion. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they could go over deep mountains and gullies. This

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Speaker 1: speaks directly to the expansionist, pioneer spirit of American society

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Speaker 1: at the time, and this is where we get the first,

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Speaker 1: the first real kind of US Camel Corps. In eighteen

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Speaker 1: fifty nine, the group that is going to Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: they passed by essentially, let's see, okay, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: curse because it's appropriate here. They pass by a big

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Speaker 1: ass rock. It's I think gas isn't. It's not fully

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Speaker 1: a curse anymore. Okay, Yeah, they passed by a rock

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Speaker 1: that is large enough to have its own name, got it?

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Speaker 1: And the rock's name is so Oh and that means

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Speaker 1: the Moro. Yes, yeah, and they're they're passing excuse me,

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Speaker 1: they're passing by it on the for the second time.

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Speaker 1: First they passed the rock and they're like, it's a

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Speaker 1: big rock. And then some guy comes out and goes

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Speaker 1: that's and they go, all right, they get to lay

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Speaker 1: they go back.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm glad that you're they're going clarify because I

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Speaker 4: wasn't sure if they just like went in a big

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Speaker 4: circle and like, hey, I know we've been by here.

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Speaker 4: There's no way there's two rocks that day.

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Speaker 1: And that guy comes back. That's also.

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Speaker 3: We do get to introduce a few side players that

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Speaker 3: hung out with our buddy Edward Beale.

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Speaker 1: And this dude's name here, I just love. I gotta

435
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: say it, pe Gilmour, Breckinridge. Yeah. Who else we got?

436
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,719
Speaker 1: We got e Penn Long and f Engle Junior.

437
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 2: These are all great names.

438
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 1: These are great names.

439
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 4: I mean, those names are so great you want to

440
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 4: have them preserve for posterity.

441
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: If only there were a giant rock. There were some

442
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: giant rock. Uh. The reason we know their names right

443
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: now and not their full first names. The reason we

444
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 1: can't tell you their full first names is because that's

445
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: what they wrote on the rock. That's what they wrote

446
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: on El Morrow. We're here. Yeah, yeah, uh. And I

447
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: love the play of making jove where they possibly lost

448
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: and just say, okay, okay, if we run into this

449
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: rock again, if our names are on it, we know

450
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: we've been here before.

451
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 3: And perhaps we can use this as a rallying point to

452
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 3: restart civilization in the event of apocalypse.

453
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: Yes, interestingly enough, they did not write the names of

454
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: the camels. We don't even lost to history the names

455
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: of the camel. I'm sure they had one. People always

456
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: name animals.

457
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Simon Theodore Alvin, there.

458
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 1: Was probably, you know, because camels have such sleepy I

459
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: bet they had. There were some that were like, yeah,

460
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: there were some like danger ho. There's one who's just

461
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: old Cairo, you know what I mean. And then there's poops,

462
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: mister humpty hump, and I hope there's one with just

463
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: a human name. There's one that's just named Richard yea steven.

464
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: So this gets us to the question the experiments paid off.

465
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 1: Camels might become an integral part of the US Army,

466
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: at least supply chain. They're doing a big pr push,

467
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: it would seem, yes.

468
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 4: And we're still like we're inching toward the massive uh

469
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 4: war that would break out within the United States, the

470
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 4: Civil War, and.

471
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: Which is a terrible name between the United States and

472
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 2: the United States.

473
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: It was. It was very not civil it's very much

474
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: not a civil war.

475
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 4: But but one of the big players in that war

476
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 4: is our next little point.

477
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that's how he would want to

478
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: be referred to as a data point at point a foot. Well,

479
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: I don't want to.

480
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: I don't wanna, you know, stir things up again.

481
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 1: The barely known in ly obscure Lieutenant Colonel Robert E.

482
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: Lee in eighteen sixty he used camel on a long

483
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: range patrol and he gave these great reviews. It was like,

484
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 1: camels are awesome, this is great. You know, five stars.

485
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: I wish I could give six. Yeah.

486
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: He did it on yelp, but back then you would

487
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 2: just yelp yes.

488
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 1: Would recommend yes. And for some reason, his rave review

489
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: did not get a lot of traction because he was

490
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: Robert E. Lee.

491
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

492
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

493
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 4: It turns out that the people in charge, at least

494
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 4: of the United States Treasury weren't too interested in what

495
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 4: he had to say.

496
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: And ed I did not know this until beginning research

497
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 1: and writing on this episode. Kid you not, there was

498
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: a political or a corporal political corporal political a word

499
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: made up, brought by ridiculous history. It was there was

500
00:26:53,680 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: a genuine political conspiracy against the use of camels. A

501
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: mule lobby, a powerful trade organization. The mule owned owned

502
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: soul fules. They came in as smoky back.

503
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 4: We all know that asses carry a lot of power.

504
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: Powerful ass is there, boy, They got wind of this experiment,

505
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: that's where they comes from a little bit late. So

506
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: we were able to get that shipment of those two

507
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: shipments of camels, and by this time camels are reproducing

508
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 1: a bit in the US. But the mule lobby shuts

509
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: down the proposition they were going to put a stop

510
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: to this camel nonsense. Yeah, to them, this is not

511
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: a he Haw situation. It's it's quite an existential threat

512
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 1: to their own existing government contracts for mules right with

513
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: the US Army.

514
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 4: It turns out that that lobbies are not a new thing.

515
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 4: They're not recent. They have been a very much a

516
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 4: part of the Great American experiment since the beginning.

517
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 3: And they know how to get their way. And then

518
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 3: the war between the States does kick off in Ernest

519
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 3: in eighteen sixty one, and very early on all of

520
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 3: these camels, as we mentioned, were housed at this one camp,

521
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 3: Camp ver Day, and it was very quickly captured.

522
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: Yes, by the Confederates, And the US Civil War started

523
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty one in Earnest, like you said, and

524
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: it goes into eighteen sixty five. It was a real bummer.

525
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

526
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 4: No, not a lot of jokes to make about the

527
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 4: Civil War that aren't in incredibly poor taste.

528
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 2: Now, Robert E.

529
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 3: Lee must have been stoked about capturing camp Verde, because

530
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 3: now he had all these camels to play with, yes.

531
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 4: Which would end up being like almost a non factor,

532
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 4: because almost all the actual battles would take place far

533
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 4: to the east.

534
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: And in the desert. The Union had possession of their

535
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: own camel for so you could argue, for brief brief

536
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: time amid all this chaos, there were two camel cores.

537
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, there could have been camel on camel violence.

538
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: And coc is a real and present dangerous We don't.

539
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: We don't at all. We want you to know if

540
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: you were a camel involved in COC violence, there are

541
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: resources available. Check your local dune. So they had these,

542
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: they had, the Union had these camels from California. But

543
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: just like the Confederates, nobody was sure what to do

544
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: with these guys. So they transferred the groups of camels

545
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: just back and forth to different places. You know what

546
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: I mean, Like here you are major brown your camels, Oh,

547
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Colonel Strickland to take these camels. Yeah, we don't

548
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: know what you should do with them, but we just

549
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: know that we have no use for them at the moment.

550
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,479
Speaker 1: So they instead of passing the buck, they kept passing

551
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: the camels like a cigarette in a circle. And which

552
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: makes sense, they kind of passing camels. Yeah, ye cigarettes, Yeah, sure,

553
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: it makes sense. Yeah, I'm killing it with comparisons today.

554
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

555
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: But the issue here is that.

556
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 4: While you could just think of the camel's as being

557
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 4: kind of superfluous, what they actually represented, if you want

558
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 4: to get really cynical with it, is an expense, right,

559
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 4: Like this is something that you still have to spend

560
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 4: money on name. Yeah, you got to keep them alive,

561
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 4: you know, even if you're just transporting them from one

562
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 4: place to another, Like you're paying not just for the camels,

563
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 4: but for all the people involved in that too. And

564
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 4: you eventually get people who are all those penny pinchers

565
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 4: who are saying, why are we spending money on something

566
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 4: that's not actually contributing to the efforts that are necessary

567
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 4: for us to fight this war.

568
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: And everybody obviously knows who we're referring to. Secretary of

569
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: War Edwin M. Stanton. I'm sure we have all heard of.

570
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: The villain of the piece she encountered in the Civil War.

571
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 3: He was unaware of the camel experiments. He simply saw

572
00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 3: them as a waste of.

573
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was cowboying in and you know, rightly

574
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: with validity, he was saying, we need to save some

575
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: cash here, so the camels. By the end of the

576
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 1: war eighteen sixty five, the camels in California are sold

577
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: the remaining parts for parts for clown feet long necks

578
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: and smirk. I mean, honestly, I don't really want to

579
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: think about what people did with those camels.

580
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think it was a concern on the

581
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 3: part of the selling not at all.

582
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, there wasn't a check in. It wasn't like getting

583
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: a pet, making sure they're getting a good home, right,

584
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry you don't want to think about it,

585
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: because you are going to learn about So we know

586
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: that the camels like when the Confederacy fell, right and capitulated. Alert, Yes,

587
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: Titanic sinks. Abraham Lincoln has a bad time at the

588
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: play the Confederates lost.

589
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 4: But apart from that, Missus Lincoln, so uh, brought to

590
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 4: you by the Ford Theater.

591
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: So look the remaining camels that are part of the

592
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: spoils of war when the Confederacy falls, they're sold in

593
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty six. And you know, again we made the point.

594
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: It's because this was a mule and horse centric conflict.

595
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: Camels are very well adapted, but very specifically adapted to

596
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: the desert. So you don't if you have a railroad,

597
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: if you have horses and you have mules and you're

598
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: in the forest and you actually have roads now and

599
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: you have roads, then you don't need the camel. And

600
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: even if you didn't need the camel, things may have

601
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: worked out differently had that they would have had there

602
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: not been a civil war or had the major supporters

603
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: of the camel Corps been union because pretty much all

604
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: of the major supporters we named. Yeah.

605
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, So a lot of those military camels were sold off,

606
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 3: all of them. As you mentioned, most of them ended

607
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 3: up abandoned by their new owners and or set free,

608
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: we'll call that charitably. Many did get put to use

609
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 3: as pack animals, and some of these Nevada mining towns

610
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 3: very sadly, a lot of the remaining ones that weren't

611
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 3: so lucky were sold to meat markets uh and butchers,

612
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: you know, to be consumed and again sold for parts.

613
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

614
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the point I'm really excited about, not

615
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: just the myth parts.

616
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 3: There's a really, really cool legend that we're about to

617
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 3: get into that was likely direct result of these freed camels.

618
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: Se really it is.

619
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 4: I've always wanted to say that.

620
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jonathan and I respect that. What are we talking We.

621
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: Are talking about. Uh, this is the coolest chapter the story,

622
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: one that we can't wait to end on the influence

623
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: of feral camels because not all of them, not all

624
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: of them ended up in the bottom mines, not all

625
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: of them ended up being hopefully very well loved pets.

626
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: Not all of them ended up being butchered. Some went feral,

627
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: just like horses of yesteryear. Some got away, and this

628
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: may have led to the creation of a thoroughly haunting

629
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: American encryptid, the Tale of the Red Ghost. We have

630
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: to go to the Smithsonian. They set it up pretty

631
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: We love the Smithsonian, Chris Heller writes in the eighteen eighties.

632
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: We we've done work with the Smithsonian too. By the way,

633
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 1: we got to get them back on and yeah, another crossover.

634
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: We check out the Sonian podcast, check out the side

635
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: Door podcast.

636
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 3: Indeed, Chris Heller writes in the eighteen eighties, a wild

637
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 3: menace haunted the Arizona Territory. It was known as the

638
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 3: Red Ghost, and its legend grew as it roamed the

639
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 3: high country.

640
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: It trampled a woman to death in eighteen eighty three.

641
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: It was rumored to stand thirty feet tall.

642
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 4: A cowboy once tried to rope the ghost, but it

643
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 4: turned and charged his mouth, nearly killed them both rope

644
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 4: a ghost. One man chased it, then cleaned it disappeared

645
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 4: right before his eyes. Another swear devour the grizzly bear.

646
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 4: All right, wow, so Camebl's are tall, but not thirty

647
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 4: feet tall.

648
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 3: Also, I imagine stuff of legend though, right, I say,

649
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 3: if you've got one of those video games where you

650
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 3: can create units of different stuff and make them fight

651
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 3: each other.

652
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: If I've made a camel versus a grizzly bear, I

653
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: cannot imagine the camel coming out on time. Maybe if

654
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: the maybe if it took place late in the game

655
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: in the desert and the grizzly had been in the

656
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: desert was really Yeah.

657
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 3: That's sort of like like a smaller dude tiring out

658
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 3: a much larger boxer.

659
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: Right, I would still if it comes down to it, though,

660
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: I would regretfully have to vote for even a starving

661
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: bear over, especially a starving bear over.

662
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 3: Again, But these types of details we see all the

663
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 3: time in reports of cryptids that we cover often on

664
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 3: our other podcast, Stuff they Don't want you to know

665
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 3: that are often these exact gerated tales that get repeated

666
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 3: and sort of twisted, and and you know, everybody wants

667
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: to tell a cool story, and everyone wants to put

668
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 3: their own spin on, especially if they haven't seen the

669
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 3: thing with their very eyes.

670
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the stories just get more and more outlandish.

671
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 1: Right, you see this throughout throughout history. You know, the

672
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: legend of the unicorn is some sort of horn to

673
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: antelope seen from the side. And if you mermaids are

674
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: are our manatees it was that's wild long time on

675
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: the ocean of those guys. All is all I could

676
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: think of. And yeah, this becomes a part of folklore.

677
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 1: But we are convinced. I think it's fair to say

678
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: that there's a grain of truth to this because a

679
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: group of you would have multiple sightings, and despite embellishment

680
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 1: and second hand reporting, the first hand reporting does have

681
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 1: a lot of commonalities. Right.

682
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 3: It lines up with Fort Verde first and Foremers, which

683
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 3: was the location where these animals were held, and likely

684
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 3: many of them may have been released from there in

685
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 3: the first place.

686
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, or escaped right right. Maybe somebody tried, because again,

687
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: camels are fast. Maybe someone tried to ride away on

688
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: a camel. Maybe they got shots in the chaos and

689
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: the camel kept going. So one attack is described by

690
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: a group of miners along the Verde River. They say

691
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: they saw the red ghost. They fired at it, something

692
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: shook loose and landed on the ground. When they approached

693
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: the spot where it fell, they saw the skull of

694
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: a recently deceased person, skin and hair still stuck to

695
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: the bone. That's our dead rider theory. The red ghost

696
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: is a ginormous thing that seems to have death riding

697
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: upon it, which I'm thinking could quite possibly podcast level

698
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: true campfire story here. It could possibly be someone who

699
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: tried to escape and then die, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

700
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: I have to say that at the end of my life,

701
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: if I see the Grim Reaper astrided camel going to

702
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: be greatly disappointed, I've just thought he also delighted to

703
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: take any of it seriously, you know, yeah.

704
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 4: Be like, well, now I know that the most ridiculous

705
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 4: is yet ahead.

706
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: For me, there was that's a positive attitude. And then

707
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: you know what else we could say, like, hey, Grim Reaper,

708
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: thanks for checking out our show man, Grim, Yeah, you're

709
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: you're kind of zany.

710
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: Actually good to have him in our corner.

711
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 1: Man, I WoT, yes, let's say it's a hot pepper.

712
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 3: So a few years later, we got a rancher near

713
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 3: Eagle Creek who spotted a faral red haired camel getting

714
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 3: into his tomato patch. Old farmer McGregor.

715
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this guy was a much better shot than

716
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: those miners. Because when he shot the animal, he managed

717
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: to bring it down and was verified that he had

718
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: shot a camel. The Red Ghost reign of Terror had

719
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: concluded a new spread back east uh the New York Sun.

720
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: You can see you could see this in various archives.

721
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 1: They published a report about the demise, and Jonathan A

722
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 1: long time ago, you and I collaborated on a story

723
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 1: that went viral for brain stuff about the Transatlantic accent.

724
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: So could you give us could you give us this quote?

725
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: I think Transatlantic is appropriate for this.

726
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 4: When the rancher went out to examine the dead beast,

727
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 4: he found strips of raw hide wound and twisted all

728
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 4: over his back and shoulders, and even under his tail.

729
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: This supports the dead rider theory. Someone or something had

730
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: been lashed onto this camel. No. Obviously, reporting at this

731
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: time was not what we would call fact based, So

732
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: it's possible this was to the earlier point made Nola's

733
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: possible was widely wildly embellished to sell papers yellow journalism.

734
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: But the question remains, could the Red Ghost have been

735
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: a real animal. I'm gonna I'm gonna say yes, but I'm.

736
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 2: Not Probably not thirty feet tall.

737
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: Probably not thirty feet tall. I am not also the

738
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: official state historian of Arizona in twenty fifteen. What that's unfortunate.

739
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: You were robbed.

740
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 4: Let me just say, when I was reviewing mister Bowen's resume,

741
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 4: it said otherwise.

742
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: Okay, it said no, it just had the word otherwise.

743
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly That's all it said. Otherwise. It was

744
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: like kind of well, you're hired.

745
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: This guy's got camel balls, sure, which is what we

746
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: call him. That's what they call it. If we are

747
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: talking about the official state history of Arizona, we're talking

748
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: about a guy named Marshall Tremble.

749
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 3: Marshall Tremble the official state History of Arizona as of

750
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen. He went through a lot of the clippings

751
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 3: reports on this from the late eighteen hundreds to figure

752
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 3: out what the actual truth was. Farah Campbells certainly could

753
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 3: survive in the desert for some time, although there almost

754
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 3: certainly weren't enough of them living in the wild to create.

755
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 2: A kind of new camel civilization. Right.

756
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 4: It couldn't be enough to have a sustainable population of camels.

757
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 4: There's too few of them and possibly spread far too

758
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 4: far apart. So uh, that would just mean we would

759
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 4: have a very slow and sad story of camels living

760
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 4: out their natural life spans in decline in decline, right,

761
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 4: the population eventually diminishing to nothing.

762
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: The word for that is the last This wouldn't quite apply,

763
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: but there there is a word for the last living

764
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: example of a species. It's really sad. That's a final camel, Derek.

765
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: It's called it's from Chili's. It's called it's called an endling.

766
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: So sad.

767
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 3: Quick question, guys, we know that camels can survive, you know,

768
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 3: unchecked in the desert for long periods of times.

769
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: But what what do they enjoy eating?

770
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 3: You know, when after a certain point they can no

771
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 3: longer survive off of the fat reserves alone, Right, they

772
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 3: need to have some sort of natural.

773
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: Deserts aren't completely devoid of plant life, it's just sparse

774
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: and far apart. So they would eat greens of some

775
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: kind of herbivorous for sure, rily bears occasionally, yeah, right,

776
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 1: they eat a lot of stuff that would be maybe

777
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: too dry or salty for other animals. So really for them,

778
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: it's being around a source of water that they can

779
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: just howse you know what I mean? Butause do eat

780
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: cat cacti twigs, leaves, stems. They will also eat I

781
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: don't know, pretty much any part of a plant. You know,

782
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 1: plants have evolved to fight off fight off large animals

783
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: and certain birds and other things that would that would

784
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: eat plants. Camels d g a f about those protections.

785
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: Camels probably eat some hot peppers. I don't know. You

786
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: know what I bet for a good treat for your camel.

787
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: I bet there are some fruits that they would really.

788
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 2: Love, or a nice carrot.

789
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 3: And they are savvy about making sure not to consume

790
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 3: poisonous greens, poisonous plants.

791
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: Yes, and as we're seeing now we're doing this live,

792
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: they are. There's some pretty hardcore herbivores. There's some pretty

793
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: hardcore ruminants. They can eat a lot of stuff. Actually,

794
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: it looks like the salt is good for them. Oh

795
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 1: to have the dietary abilities of a camel, you guys, indeed, Yeah,

796
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: I'm on an anti camel diet. I'm on low sodium. Yeah, okay,

797
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: that's true.

798
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 2: That's not even a joke.

799
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: You had to give up the old salt lick. Yeah. Yeah.

800
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 4: I was out there like six seven hours a day,

801
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 4: and they said, you're not being a productive member of society.

802
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: This guy used to just always I remember it was

803
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: in your contract, the salt lick breaks. Yeah yeah, your

804
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: agent explained to me, that's like a smoke break for

805
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: other people riding your camel rider. Yep, all right, there

806
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: we have it. So this is this tells us, According

807
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: to Marshall Tremble, this tells us these sightings that were

808
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: reported throughout the region up until the early nineteen hundreds

809
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: were likely based in fact. And so the legend of

810
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: the red Ghost. Like you said, no, it fits perfectly

811
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: with some of our timelines. It also fits perfectly with

812
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: some of our geography. The legend might be embellish, but

813
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: a wild camel, possibly an army camel, that escaped from

814
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:31,720
Speaker 1: camp Verde, was spotted, someone did kill it. They found

815
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: that it had scars across its back and body. It

816
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,919
Speaker 1: had those straps. We know that we owe a lot

817
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: of this to a lot of the research to guys

818
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: like Doug Baum, who was a zoo keeper and owners.

819
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: To be confused with our Doug Baum, who runs our.

820
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: Ballet podcast studio. Differently, well, we haven't asked them. We

821
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: should ask him, Doug, where were you in the late

822
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: to mid eighteen.

823
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 4: Hundreds while I was keeping a zoo in Texas. Oh

824
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,879
Speaker 4: my god, we talked about you on recent show.

825
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: So what did camel Doug have? So zookiber Doug, owner

826
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: of the Texas Camel Corps. He hunted down just on

827
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: his own steam, his own volition, the truth of the

828
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: Red Ghost as well as the fate of all those

829
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: other former military camels. And we know that a lot

830
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: of them went through Mobile Galveston, San Francisco. And Baum

831
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: gives us this note. He says, these commercially imported camels

832
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: start to mix with the formerly army camels in the

833
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: eighteen seventies. This is what he's mad about. By the way,

834
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: this is what Doug is, what really gets Doug's hump here.

835
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: He says, they innerbred with the former military camels. So

836
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: unfortunately it's really murky where the military camels end up

837
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: and what their ultimate dispositions were. You know, their endings

838
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: were because of these nebulous traveling menageries and circuses. So

839
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 1: he's like, like literal circuses.

840
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 2: Literally some of these were taken on by you know, traveling.

841
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 4: Famous for how well they kept there.

842
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 1: Even in the modern day.

843
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 3: You know, there have been changes in absolutely more oversight,

844
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 3: but back in the early days, zero over horrific conditions

845
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 3: of these animals.

846
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: I propose, gentlemen, we end with a nice uh not

847
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: even call back a book end with our friends here.

848
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: Well we'll see the friends are get this. We know

849
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: what happened to at least one camel, a white haired

850
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: camel named Sayd. He was yeah, we got what because

851
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: he was Beale's prized riding camel. When they were expediting

852
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 1: out west, Sayid was killed by a younger, larger camel

853
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: in his hers Camela Violence cooc and COCV, and a

854
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: soldier who is also a veterinarian. He said, look, Bill,

855
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: mister Bill, I know this. I say meant a lot

856
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: to you. So we're going to ship him across the

857
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 1: country to Washington. He his body is preserved by the Smithsonian,

858
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: and the boons of Sai are still in the collection

859
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: of the National Museum of Natural History to this.

860
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 4: Very day, right next to mister Lincoln.

861
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a it's a weird aisle. Yeah, in

862
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: the museum.

863
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it's just misk is the title.

864
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's it's misk. Because budget cuts, uh didn't

865
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: give us enough from the right. You know, I mean

866
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: that's a big signs. That's a big sign. It's a

867
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: big it's a big sign and it's on whiteboard, which

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Speaker 1: is just remarkable. Wow.

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00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 4: So the terrible joke one upsmanship has been amazing.

870
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: For the our collective. Parents.

871
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: Would dad would be proud, honestly you think so? Oh yeah,

872
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 2: my dad? Yeah, he would be like, way to go, son.

873
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 1: Mine would be utterly ashamed. Oh right, well, uh, once

874
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: again I let happens. He was a tough nut and

875
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: a fantastic four villain that may be coming to a

876
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: theater near you. No spoilers. Yeah, big, big thanks of course,

877
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: as I was saying to you, fellow ridiculous historians for

878
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 1: tuning in, huge thanks to Matt the Madman. Still O, Matt,

879
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: how'd we do? There? We go ahead? Of course, we

880
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: can't thank you enough. Jonathan Strickland. This will probably be

881
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: the most polite thank you we have given you in

882
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: the credits, because you are here in making eye contact

883
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: in human form.

884
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

885
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I didn't turn it into my evil alter ego.

886
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: It was.

887
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 3: It was on the table, but we ended up running

888
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 3: a little long, and we're a little pressed for time

889
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 3: here today.

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00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 1: At this tech conference.

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00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 3: A huge thanks to Chris Frasciotis Naves, Jeff Cote here

892
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 3: in spirit, Alex Williams who composed our theme.

893
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,760
Speaker 1: Max Williams, super producer.

894
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 3: Max, thank you for the editing, all the crazy sound

895
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 3: cues and for just being a mention.

896
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 1: And big big thanks of course to the rude dudes

897
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: over at Ridiculous Crime, our crew of research associates on

898
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 1: this show. Big thanks too. Okay, yep, there they go.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to be shouted out in the credits.

900
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: We are working live. We'll be back next week. We're

901
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: going to talk about ancient civilizations. You have to wonder

902
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: what that means. We'll see next time, folks.

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00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows