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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of the

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Speaker 1: Weekly Zeitgeist. Uh. These are some of our favorite segments

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Speaker 1: from this week, all edited together into one NonStop infotainment

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Speaker 1: laugh stravaganza. Uh yeah, So, without further ado, here is

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Speaker 1: the Weekly Zeitgeist. Well, Miles, we are thrilled to be

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Speaker 1: joined in our third seat by a writer, director, comedian,

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Speaker 1: podcaster father who's written comedy, horror comics, and parenting books,

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Speaker 1: and who hosts the podcast What Are You Watching with

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Speaker 1: Chris Mancini, which is an appropriate title because he is

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Speaker 1: Chris Mancini. Hey, great to be here, guys, Thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me. Thanks. Thanks. I was thinking of that song

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Speaker 1: in a Gotta David. It was like the first one

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Speaker 1: that everyone got the name wrong, right right. Yeah, Mike

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Speaker 1: could then realize what it doesn't matter, nobody cares enough

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Speaker 1: to correct it. So that's just what we're gonna call

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Speaker 1: it for that one, because it's in the Garden of

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Speaker 1: eva Eden that it just came out and yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I got yeah that That also was another one I

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Speaker 1: also thought was and I got a Davida for a

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Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, Well, I think I think if you

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Speaker 1: look at the lyrics, that's how they have it listed.

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Speaker 1: I might I might be wrong the one so like

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Speaker 1: in other news of looking up the lyrics to be

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Speaker 1: like this must mean something and I just had it

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Speaker 1: wrong or like jumbled it into something. That part where

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Speaker 1: he's aren't saying oh bosh, you won't, it's saying you

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Speaker 1: love but you don't. You give your love but you

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Speaker 1: won't wish. That doesn't really make sense either, man, Like,

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna put something that's like mumbled over, it

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Speaker 1: should have it should repay people when they go try

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Speaker 1: and figure out what the funk you were saying. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: people just go for the rhyme. Yeah exactly, and won't

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Speaker 1: and don't. I mean, that's that's rhyme. Smith and Chris,

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Speaker 1: what what's good? Where are you coming to us from?

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Speaker 1: I'm coming from Los Angeles, and I don't know if

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Speaker 1: for some reason, I live in a neighborhood that there's

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Speaker 1: always a tree being cut down, so you might hear

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Speaker 1: a little bit of buzz sawing periodically. Yeah, shout out

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Speaker 1: the arborists. Yeah, I was getting those checks. Shout out nurses.

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Speaker 1: I do. I feel like I pushed past nurses a

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Speaker 1: little bit, but nurses are truly the best and do

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Speaker 1: some of the most thankless difficult work in the American

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Speaker 1: Come on, the pandemics over. They're not heroes, my dad,

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Speaker 1: my best that's not. Let's not. Let's not. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: for National Nurses Day they just went the day off. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how about listen when we were begging people to stay

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Speaker 1: safe in the pandemic so we didn't have to see

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Speaker 1: untold horror in the yers for months on end. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: shout out all the nurses, Shout all the nurses in

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Speaker 1: my life, you know who you are. And arborists, who

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Speaker 1: are the hours of trees. I guess in many ways,

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize how important tree maintenance was. So I

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Speaker 1: moved somewhere windy, and like a dude was like, hey man,

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Speaker 1: you should really trim your tree. Like the wind is

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Speaker 1: it's going to be like it's gonna just suck your

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Speaker 1: ship up. The city came by, said it was a

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Speaker 1: year and a half waiting list to get a tree trimmed.

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Speaker 1: You know, so I think we're gonna need to hire

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Speaker 1: a private contractor to do it exactly Like I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I l A has like super tall palm

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Speaker 1: trees that like almost seemed like I I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's weird how tawsome of the palm trees are. But

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Speaker 1: then like a a chik of them will just fall

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Speaker 1: off in the wind. We have tall trees and high winds.

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Speaker 1: It's great. Yeah, well it's because we have like there's

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Speaker 1: a you know, all of our palm trees, so a

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Speaker 1: lot of them are dying because of like a fungus.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah that's why I like, you see

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Speaker 1: a lot they're just lopped off, like lopped off at

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Speaker 1: the top and stuff like these, like sick dying palm trees. Man. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's the whole thing. Shout out to Arborus night gang.

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Speaker 1: This is this is your palm tree. Palm tree fungus

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Speaker 1: is a hoax. So yeah, that's what I did hear.

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Speaker 1: That's a hoax. Okay, drink your own palm tree oil,

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Speaker 1: palm oil, you'll be good. What what is something from

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Speaker 1: your search histories? So one thing from my search history

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Speaker 1: recently was are there any female Greek rappers? Okay? The

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Speaker 1: answer was there's exactly one. I couldn't find any of

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Speaker 1: her music, just her name because I really like Greek rap.

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Speaker 1: But it's like, have be misogynistic and I was like,

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Speaker 1: come on, there's got to be like a badass Greek

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Speaker 1: lady out there that wraps. Just one can't find her music,

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Speaker 1: So that's where we're at. What's her MC name? I

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Speaker 1: think it's a sent Doesignia or something like that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: didn't even get her name down correctly. That's how see

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Speaker 1: Barbara Lucas. Yeah right, yeah, coming through another lifetime? Yeah

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Speaker 1: is that are you? Are you? Like? Do you did

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Speaker 1: you listen to a lot of hip hop in general?

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Speaker 1: And and like when you're like living in Greece, you're like,

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Speaker 1: let me check on Greek hip hop or did you

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Speaker 1: suddenly even like I'm suddenly into Greek hip hop and

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Speaker 1: now you're looking for the female mcs. What's what's your

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Speaker 1: relationship to? You know what, if my friends could hear

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Speaker 1: that question, they would laugh really really hard. I lowed

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Speaker 1: our friends had to hip hop and wrap in New

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Speaker 1: York And I was living in New York for ten

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Speaker 1: years and I was always the one that's like not

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Speaker 1: up on the culture like at all at all. But

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Speaker 1: for some reason, when I moved here, when you go

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Speaker 1: to the clubs or bars here, they just they just

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Speaker 1: play Greek music like they don't play American music at all,

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Speaker 1: So I had to get into the Greek thing, and

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Speaker 1: I was learning Greek, and I don't know, I just

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Speaker 1: started vibe with Greek Wrap for some odd reason, maybe

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Speaker 1: partly because they tend to be from the United States.

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Speaker 1: They tend to be Greek Americans to wrap here interesting,

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Speaker 1: which really answers a lot of unasked questions. How rap

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Speaker 1: same degrees in the first place? Right? Right? Yeah? What

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Speaker 1: about you, Zachary, what what's something from your search history? Well?

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Speaker 1: I did a piece last week for Time on billionaires

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Speaker 1: owning media properties for the past hundred years in light

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Speaker 1: of everybody's favorite billionaire maybe buying Twitter. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to mention the name just because I feel like, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you don't know it then So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of in my search history about about billionaires and and

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Speaker 1: media ownership for the past hundred and twenty years of

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Speaker 1: American media. Mm hmm. And how what are your what

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Speaker 1: are your feelings about that trend and the continuance? You know,

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Speaker 1: I knew that, I knew that lots of billionaires have

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Speaker 1: bought contemporary media properties like Mark Benny Off and Time,

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Speaker 1: like Jeff Bezos in the Washington Post. Like Glare and

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Speaker 1: pal Jobs in the Atlantic, I wasn't as acutely aware

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Speaker 1: of just how completely all media for most of America history,

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Speaker 1: well most of American history from the late nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: through the present, has been owned by wealthy individuals and

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Speaker 1: usually wealthy men. Right. It's pretty hard to find any

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Speaker 1: media newspaper, TV station, magazine that has not been owned

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Speaker 1: by wealthy private individuals, which makes musks bid for Twitter

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Speaker 1: seem much less of a new thing, even if it's

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Speaker 1: a big deal. M that. Yeah, that our media has

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Speaker 1: been under billionaire control for quite some time and we're

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Speaker 1: at where we're at now, including my heart just saying

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Speaker 1: no people, I heard his own people. We're like the

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Speaker 1: Green Bay Packers of media outlets. No, it's definitely true.

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Speaker 1: I mean everything is. Yeah, I mean it was clear

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Speaker 1: Channel before and they're liker. That's true of like every everything,

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Speaker 1: like the everything an American culture, maybe with the acceptance

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Speaker 1: exception of the Green Bay Packers, right, Like, there's not

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Speaker 1: much that is not owned by extremely wealthy people. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's, I mean there is independent media, but

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Speaker 1: not to the levels of what we're talking about. I guess,

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Speaker 1: you know, in terms of pervasiveness, right, like you you

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Speaker 1: know that even even even what what people like to

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Speaker 1: think of as the countercultural or alt media, like The

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Speaker 1: Nation and Harper's, you know, also owned by very wealthy

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Speaker 1: individuals whose politics simplice skew left. Yeah, I wouldn't. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I would love them in there, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I mean like more like at the extremely local

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Speaker 1: and like where we have like weeklies and things that

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Speaker 1: were at some point felt like they embodied something of

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Speaker 1: like oh no, this, this is this is ran by

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Speaker 1: like human beings that you can identify, rather than where

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Speaker 1: is the c suite that makes all the decisions for

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Speaker 1: this entity kind of thing? What what's something you guys

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Speaker 1: think is overrated? Oh? Other than the Green Bay Packers?

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Speaker 1: Um well, I mean on that light, I'm sort of

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Speaker 1: repeating myself. I think the concern that wealthy individual's owning

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Speaker 1: media platforms is a threat to free speech. It's either

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Speaker 1: we've never had it or we've always had it, and

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Speaker 1: it has been neither here nor there to the ownership

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Speaker 1: structure of these organizations. M hm. So are you less

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Speaker 1: concerned about Elon Musk doing it? Because I think I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming like part of the concern that a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: including myself for feeling is like how how brazen and

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Speaker 1: also like popular he seems to be, Like I it's

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Speaker 1: the first time I could see like a billionaire coming

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Speaker 1: through and being like, no, you can't write that about me,

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Speaker 1: and like a bunch of people being like, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can't write that about Elon Musk. Whereas the zos like

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Speaker 1: tried to kill a story about Amazon publicly in the

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Speaker 1: Washington Post that would probably be very unpopular. That's it

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Speaker 1: just feel like those stories never get to the front

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Speaker 1: page of the Washington Post, right, And you certainly have

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Speaker 1: to wonder if there had, if there were multiple ongoing

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Speaker 1: instances of criticism, you know, of Musk himself or anything

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Speaker 1: that Tesla did, or anything that Twitter did being routinely

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Speaker 1: shut down, and then that having other reverberations. You know,

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Speaker 1: one can set up a new social media platform of information. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't have the network effect. But Trump was able

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Speaker 1: to set up truth social and now the fact that

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Speaker 1: he's running it really badly is neither here nor there

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Speaker 1: in terms of the ease of actually creating one. So

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Speaker 1: even there, it's not as if Twitter is like the

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Speaker 1: soul and only public sphere of very sharp and often

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Speaker 1: pungent commentary. Yeah, I mean you guys, general thesis on

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Speaker 1: the podcast and on like it seems to be the

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Speaker 1: like not enough, And I agree with this in in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways that like a lot of the

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Speaker 1: good news doesn't get reported, and so it's like kind

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Speaker 1: of goes into this like we we just hear the

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Speaker 1: problems in the media, but then like this feels like

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Speaker 1: one of the problems overall, like overarching that like we

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Speaker 1: don't hear about, which is that things are generally being

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Speaker 1: vetted by a billionaire class that like gowns all these

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Speaker 1: things that are supposed to be talking to us. Like,

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Speaker 1: would you agree with that or you think that like

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Speaker 1: this is just a kind of a misreading of the current.

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Speaker 1: I think, I think and and Emma has a kind

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Speaker 1: of aversion to the idea of good news as opposed

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Speaker 1: to news that points in a more constructive direction. But

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Speaker 1: for profit news demands attention that can be measured in

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Speaker 1: real time compared to other people getting the same eyeballs.

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Speaker 1: And that's the same incentives for Netflix as it is

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Speaker 1: for a newspaper. So the issue I think is less

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Speaker 1: who owns then the structure of these things have to

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Speaker 1: generate a profit, and what generates a profit is what

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Speaker 1: is most immediately emotional and intense and outrageous and fearful

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Speaker 1: and hot emotions rather than cool emotions. And that is

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Speaker 1: as much the issue irrespective of the ownership structure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like something's changed with social media and

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Speaker 1: like as compared to you know, some of these legacy

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Speaker 1: medias that, like the New York Times was not running

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Speaker 1: the sorts of headlines that now make a tweak go viral,

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Speaker 1: right like they there there was some sort of difference

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Speaker 1: or diminished heat, like for through the editorial process, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Emma does a lot more of our you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the progress social media she kind of manages.

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Speaker 1: And so the flip side of that is it's also

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Speaker 1: been an amazing tool to have people find inform asian

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Speaker 1: and perspectives right that are but they were they have

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Speaker 1: a hard time finding otherwise, you know, the connective tissue

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Speaker 1: that these platforms still provide. I think that the difference

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Speaker 1: between social media and legacy media is just that the

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Speaker 1: rules haven't been figured out yet, Like the rules of

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Speaker 1: journalism have been around with legacy media for a really

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Speaker 1: long time. So what's considered you know, good editorial practice

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Speaker 1: and bad editorial practice. What the rules are in relationship

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Speaker 1: to ownership, for instance, those are pretty set. And if

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Speaker 1: you know the mary and public doesn't know what they are,

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Speaker 1: they should know what they are. Social media is still

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Speaker 1: quite new. We're still figuring out the rules, are trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out, like what does the space look like

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Speaker 1: where it's kind of a public square, so issues of

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Speaker 1: free speech or there. But it is also a privately

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Speaker 1: owned company, so what does that mean who is responsible

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Speaker 1: legally for the stuff is published on the platform. It's

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Speaker 1: just I think we're going to work ourselves into a

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Speaker 1: better place with that. Is just that we're in the

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Speaker 1: messy middle at the moment. M hmm. Yeah. What is

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Speaker 1: something you think is overrated? Him? I was gonna say

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Speaker 1: the five day work week overrated? Overrated in the sense

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Speaker 1: that we're all doing it right that what do you

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Speaker 1: what's what's ideal? You think? What's the balance here? I

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Speaker 1: would love to see us move towards four. I think

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Speaker 1: that would be better. I mean, there's there are a

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Speaker 1: few countries that are piloting that, right. It seems like

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Speaker 1: it's that so far, it doesn't seem to be throwing

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Speaker 1: economies into like a downward spiral. Yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess I would say that. The only thing I would

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Speaker 1: say to that is like it's a really small amount.

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Speaker 1: Is like, of course I can't remember which countries now exactly,

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Speaker 1: but it's like the government of Iceland I don't know,

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Speaker 1: or like this one company here there. But but that's

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Speaker 1: not too to damper the enthusiasm about the pilot projects. Superanted,

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Speaker 1: I hope it goes well. I hope there's absolutely no

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Speaker 1: economic downturn and that productivity stays high so that it'll

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Speaker 1: just can the four day work we creep will continue

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Speaker 1: to creep. Mm hmm. I thought the rub on Mediterranean

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Speaker 1: countries was that they had essentially been pilot in the

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Speaker 1: four day work weeks generations between May and September, even

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Speaker 1: if nominally it was a five day work week. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is a sad thing about Mediterranean culture is, or

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Speaker 1: at least about Greece in particular. When I was younger,

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Speaker 1: my grandparents would always have a siesta, you know, after lunch.

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Speaker 1: That has disappeared. So the Mediterranean culture is getting infected

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Speaker 1: by the five day work week, causing cultural situation in

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Speaker 1: my view, right right, right, that back on track, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love that. I'll bring nap culture back into it.

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Speaker 1: What is something do you think is overrated? As a

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Speaker 1: person who really like loves fashion, I love reading a

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Speaker 1: Vogue magazine, Harper's Bizarre if you will love the fashion

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Speaker 1: world and their goofiness and their eccentric nous. The Met

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Speaker 1: Gala is really overrated to me. And here's why no

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Speaker 1: one follows theme. Okay, I know we say it every

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Speaker 1: year the Met Gala fans go on to the twitters

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Speaker 1: and we're like, what they went through the whole effort

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Speaker 1: of making a theme. They brought in specific art pieces.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times the meal goes along with the theme.

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Speaker 1: Why would you come dressed? Not as the theme? What

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Speaker 1: is the point? And this year they did the Gilded Age.

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Speaker 1: One of the fancy is most like extreme time. You

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Speaker 1: could have done giant parasols, huge hats, I mean, hoop

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Speaker 1: skirts four days. It's literally the era of coursets. And

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Speaker 1: everyone was like ongoing in black, which first of all,

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Speaker 1: it's the Guilded Age is all about color too much black,

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Speaker 1: lots of like lace, underwear things. Some people got it.

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Speaker 1: Some people were about it Gigi hadid you know, at

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Speaker 1: first I was like, I don't understand the entire like

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Speaker 1: latex red leather corset hant thing. But then with the coach,

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Speaker 1: she was like, oh no, I'm gonna really, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: with this silhouette and give you, you know, give you

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Speaker 1: perfect time period, which works. Sara Jessica Parker was working

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Speaker 1: out of three separate centuries, but it came together. It

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Speaker 1: was mostly in line with theme. And then who's the

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Speaker 1: director of something like forty year some Netflix? So hold

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Speaker 1: on find her because she knocked it out of the park,

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Speaker 1: doing the sort of like oh too, black women of

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Speaker 1: the era, highlighting the seamstresses who were behind a lot

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Speaker 1: of the classic designs. Rhonda Blank. Rhonda Blanc is an

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Speaker 1: incredible director. She directed this movie called the forty year

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Speaker 1: Old Version, about a woman who's interested in getting into

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Speaker 1: like hip hop and reconnecting with her writing roots. It

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Speaker 1: is a setting performance. But her outfit for the gala

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Speaker 1: was like giant white head wrap, like knife billowing skirt.

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Speaker 1: It was incredible and I really appreciated was she brought

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Speaker 1: to the theme. I think my favorite outfit was Pete

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Speaker 1: Davison with his his Tanner his self tanding spray. Oh god,

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Speaker 1: his new tattoos. You cannot look. Did you not look

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Speaker 1: a little tan to you? Yeah? I mean, listen, that's

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Speaker 1: what happens when you get with a Kardashian. Your your

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Speaker 1: beauty up routine begins immediately because breaking on more cameras

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Speaker 1: than you ever thought existed in your whole life. So

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Speaker 1: he's got it's literally keeping up with the Kardashians. He's

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Speaker 1: got work. Also, I love how point, like, just how

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Speaker 1: odd the theme of the Gilded Age. You know, it's on.

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Speaker 1: It's frightening, you know what I mean, massive inequality and

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Speaker 1: child labor. But hey, you know this ball out and

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Speaker 1: nothing but Hillary's dresses dedicated to Harriet Tubman, So you know,

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Speaker 1: problems resolved. Let's see it giveth and it taketh truly.

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Speaker 1: I also think the met gal is overrated because I

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Speaker 1: don't know who any of these designers are. For the

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Speaker 1: most part, people are like, oh and they're wearing Louis

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Speaker 1: I mean I know Louuia Louis Dry. Yeah, okay, Carolina Herrara,

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Speaker 1: I know that one. But like they's there were some

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Speaker 1: probable I don't know Jean Louis Yeah, you're like, where

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Speaker 1: my favorite designers Gilding. Hey, what what is something you

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Speaker 1: think is underrated? Yeah? This this one is just cool.

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Speaker 1: Willie Nelson. Willie Nelson is doing great. Yeah. He turned

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Speaker 1: eighty nine last week and he put out a new

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Speaker 1: album on his birthday and it's great. It's called a

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Speaker 1: Beautiful Life. It's very good. And he's just generally always

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Speaker 1: been on the right side of most things as far

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Speaker 1: as I know. He's great, really into it. He is

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Speaker 1: one of the like musicians that my parents listened to

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Speaker 1: all the time that still holds up for me. And there,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot that probably the fact that

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Speaker 1: my parents listened to them all the time make me

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Speaker 1: associate with like being nerds like Billy Joel. Maybe that's

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Speaker 1: not fair. And you know, Anita Baker at the time,

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Speaker 1: I did not of a fair shake because I was

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Speaker 1: just like, come on, this is so slow. Put on

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Speaker 1: AXL Rose, he will be cool forever. And that wasn't

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Speaker 1: the case. But Willie Nelson, I always liked his voice

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Speaker 1: even back then. And he stays stays cool. What a

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Speaker 1: what a voice? Guy stays cool? Huh? And he's to

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Speaker 1: joint in the White House. He did yeah with Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Carter's son. It's great, So that's fun. I and I

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Speaker 1: missed country music completely when I was a kid. Like

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Speaker 1: I've only started getting into it in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years, so I have no associations with it. Really,

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Speaker 1: I'm just like fresh and it feels great. He's very cool.

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Speaker 1: He has like the way he sings. He'll do interesting phrasing,

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Speaker 1: kind of like Sinatra. If that helps people on board,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. He's great, Yeah, yeah, really good. I

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Speaker 1: used to as a kid. I used to think him

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Speaker 1: and George Carling were the same person. Oh that's carl yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I was like, these are white guys with long hair, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like white beards and like yeah, and I was again,

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Speaker 1: this was me not even hearing this thing. Like my

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Speaker 1: visual thing was like, oh he's wearing a headman today.

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Speaker 1: Oh he's not right. And then I'm like, as I

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Speaker 1: got older, I'm like, they are not safer, bad fuck

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Speaker 1: at all. But I remember that very early on. I

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Speaker 1: was confused when I saw the do with them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they have kind of the same head shape, like kind

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Speaker 1: of a square head to me, and I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: the same facial hair and I think it's just a

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Speaker 1: little bit of gleaming long hair in the back. That

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Speaker 1: was enough to say as a four year old, be like,

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Speaker 1: and that is the same person, and I know everything

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Speaker 1: about popular culture. Yeah, I mean Willie Nelson's hair I

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Speaker 1: always associate with, like being in the pigtail braids. The

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Speaker 1: fact that he was able to pull that off and

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Speaker 1: still just be a complete icon is is pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: He got Texas on board with that, the state of Texas,

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Speaker 1: you know, but they did for him. Yeah, Like I

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Speaker 1: guess we're doing this now. Yeah, like with yeah, reminds

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Speaker 1: of like this is a very specific reference. But Jack

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Speaker 1: Peter and on the Braves was wearing like pearls like

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Speaker 1: when he plays baseball, and I was like, look at

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Speaker 1: all these braves fans and men coming out with their pearls,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, the power of sports. It's okay

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Speaker 1: because he does it. Yeah him straight, him hit home run.

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Speaker 1: I'm now where pearl also, man, he should he should

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Speaker 1: push it like this year when he's in the postseason,

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Speaker 1: he should just like have more accessories, just keep accessorizing

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Speaker 1: until the breaking point right to like every man in

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Speaker 1: George is weighed down by an insurmountable amount of jewelry.

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking a lot about the Carter White House.

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Speaker 1: I think we talked about it a little bit on

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Speaker 1: yesterday's episode, which I have mostly blacked out, but the um,

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Speaker 1: we can't go back, we can't go back. The like

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Speaker 1: the fact that The New York Times is addressing, you know,

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Speaker 1: centrist democrat in power as being like, Wow, there's just

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Speaker 1: a mood issue that nobody can quite pinpoint. And the

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Speaker 1: fact that that was followed by like just twelve years

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Speaker 1: of like hardcore republicanism in the mainstream worries me a

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Speaker 1: little bit that we're like back back at that point

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Speaker 1: where they're like, I don't know, we're we're out of

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Speaker 1: answers here, folks. I guess we turned it over to them.

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Speaker 1: Hot potato. There you go that up there, take it.

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Speaker 1: And and I feel like that whole thing is sort

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Speaker 1: of like the response to inflation going up or something else,

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Speaker 1: like people are like, oh, I guess this is just

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Speaker 1: how people feel. And I don't know, look at the context. Man,

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Speaker 1: like he's exclusively been president during a global pandemic like

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Speaker 1: that will impact people's mood a little. That's not his

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Speaker 1: fault necessarily, yeah, And I think the other part just

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Speaker 1: sort of like what could it be? Do we we

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Speaker 1: point at the little breadcrumbs that fell out of his

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Speaker 1: jacket pocket that were legislative winds and hope that's enough?

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Speaker 1: Or do we dangle a bunch of existential threats in

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Speaker 1: front of them to get them to fucking vote? And

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Speaker 1: it looks like the ladder right now? Yeah, so well,

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Speaker 1: I guess what we'll be talking about that in a moment.

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Speaker 1: So let's take a break, gird yourself, and we'll be

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Speaker 1: right back. And we're back. And so Democrats find themselves

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Speaker 1: in the like the New York Times called it democrats Mystery,

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Speaker 1: how to brighten up presidency and a national mood. It

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Speaker 1: basically seems like, you know, just the mood down. And

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Speaker 1: the article also seems to, you know, take them at

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Speaker 1: sort of face value when it comes to like what

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Speaker 1: the mystery is here, Like they're like, I don't know,

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00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: like should we emphasize the small games we've made aid

425
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: or try to make larger gains? And it just feels,

426
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, it feels weird and disingenuous to treat

427
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: people's feelings about this administration like it is a mystery

428
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: illness that like they don't know the cause of, and

429
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: they're just trying to figure out, you know, they're floating

430
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 1: some weather balloons up to see how this works and

431
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: how that works. But I don't know. We talk a

432
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: lot about like sort of a disconnect between the reality

433
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: is people live it and experience it, including on like

434
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: social media versus the reality that I feel like the

435
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: mainstream media and the mainstream Democratic Party seem to exist

436
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: inside of or at least like sort of message from

437
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: the planet of But I don't know, I think it

438
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: like comes back to sort of an unacknowledged like I

439
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: think too that Nate like probably and the financial collapse

440
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: like kind of ties a lot into this, and just

441
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: the fact that that there hasn't been like sort of

442
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: a reckoning in the mainstream media or with the Democratic

443
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: Party with what happened there, and you know, you had

444
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: like Bernie Sanders as an insurgent candidate who wanted to

445
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: address that, and Trump addressed it in his way, and

446
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party was kind of still in the middle.

447
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: And I don't know, it just feels feels very much like, well,

448
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: there there are concrete things people are asking for you

449
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: kind of said you were going to do something with

450
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: that or around that, and have not done those things.

451
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: But like, so why is it be being treated as

452
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: like are they depressed? Like what's what? What am I

453
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: said about? Why is everyone sad? How do we make

454
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: them happy? I was just curious that what would be

455
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: the know, top three lists of things that they said

456
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: that they were going to do that they haven't done.

457
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: I think voting rights is a huge one. Yeah, I

458
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: think I'm honestly like looking at things like the unemployment

459
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 1: insurance uh, like the weird math that happened around things

460
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: being like two thousand dollars and like, well, if you

461
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: add this from over here, you carry the two that

462
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 1: adds to two thousand, the child tax credit, lapsing student debt,

463
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: like you know, student loan debt. There's a I mean

464
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: there's a lot talking about like law enforcement reform, not

465
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: necessarily about defunding the police, but looking at that with

466
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: a real clear eye and thinking things looking at things

467
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: like qualified immunity, like these are things that we're talked about.

468
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: I never in a million years or think Joe Biden

469
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: would ever touch anything with the qualified immunity, but a

470
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: lot of gestures were made in that direction, and I

471
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: think especially for you know, black people, well, we look

472
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: at something like voting rights as being completely at threatened,

473
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: being threatened, and we see countless as like in places

474
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: like Georgia, Florida, Texas, where it's becoming increasingly difficult to

475
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: vote even for fucking you know, the people that they

476
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: want to vote for. So I think those are like

477
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: big things that feel very existential for people. I think,

478
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: like one, if we're if we're meant to believe that

479
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: if this sort of equation here is to vote the

480
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 1: representatives into Congress that represent you know, the values that

481
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: we have, that if we can't even do that, what

482
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: what is the point here, Like we're not even looking

483
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: at like that should even I'm surprised that wasn't the

484
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: big one of the biggest things democrats even so, just

485
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: like in the cynical game of staying in power, which

486
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: is like, hey, they're trying to take away the their

487
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: ability to vote for us. But that's been you know

488
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: that we've seen. We've seemed to let the obstruction happen

489
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: like within the party and just kind of keep it moving.

490
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: I mean, look, part of it is that Biden was

491
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: unpopular by the fall of last year, within six months

492
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: of being in office, when it wasn't even clear that

493
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: those things weren't going to be passed, and there was

494
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: some effort. There was a you know, a voting rights

495
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: bill that the House had passed that was at the Senate,

496
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: and there was also the Build Back Better omnibus, you know,

497
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: was going to retain the child tax credit, was going

498
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: to provide universal pre k and and more time off

499
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: for working women. But he was on popular even before.

500
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: Those things didn't pass amongst a wider swath of the

501
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: public than one would have thought. And what's odd is

502
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: the lesson that government, including Republicans, learned from two thousand

503
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: and eight two thousand nine, was that if you don't

504
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: bail out people who are actually working, and you just

505
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: bail out institutions, you're gonna create a lot of ill will.

506
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: So there was you know, four trillion dollars of money

507
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: during COVID, both in and then in February, a lot

508
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: of which did go toward It was the first time

509
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: in forty years that the lower quintile people saw some

510
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: income growth larger because of transfer payments from government, and

511
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: you know, that did not engender like oh, we're doing well,

512
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, I mean there is a degree of you

513
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: mentioned malaise at the beginning, Jack, that there is that

514
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: aspect of what's going on that that isn't purely about

515
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: I think something one can point to specifically that doesn't

516
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: make an undiagnosed illness. It just means, first of all,

517
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to do anything right now other than

518
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: those two stimulus bills during COVID that has anything resembling

519
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: bipartisan support. I mean, there are actually things that have

520
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: bipartisan support. Like, weirdly enough, Criminal Justice Reform was the

521
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: one bill passed that had genuine bipartisan support during the

522
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: Trump years in December that actually, for the first time

523
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: moved away from like a lot of the draconian sentencing

524
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: that have become commonplace in federal courts. Right doesn't do

525
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: anything for state systems, which are which are different, but it,

526
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, it does speak to and part of why

527
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: M and I are trying to do this our own,

528
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: our own show of getting people to look at what

529
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: what people are trying to do to solve things is

530
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: in the United States definitely is in a culturally massive

531
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: question mark, verging on kind of despair. And cynicism in

532
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: a way that would have been really familiar in the

533
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: mid seventies. You know, it's not like we haven't been

534
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: here before and would have been really familiar in the

535
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: mid nineteen thirties, you know, it would have been really

536
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: familiar in the mid eighteen seventies. At best. These are

537
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: like cyclical things where we we we snap out of

538
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: our somewhat illusionary view of us of being the greatest

539
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: of all nations that has solved everything right, as a

540
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: comforting narrative that's never been true, but which we buy

541
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: into really easily for long periods of time, and then

542
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: it's like something happens and we wake up and we're like,

543
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: wait a minute, right, No, we're not all those wonderful,

544
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: hyperbolic Hosanna things that we said that we were. We've

545
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: got real problems and we've got real issues, and the challenge,

546
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: of course is to is to have that clear gimlet

547
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: eye to awareness of what's going on without sinking into

548
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: despair and cynicism, you know, without that then trending into

549
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: the other direction and we're we're clearly whether you're on

550
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: the left or the right, easily heading in those directions

551
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 1: and I think that's partly reflective of the fact that

552
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, no political leader has anything resembling a majority approval,

553
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: let alone much of a plurality. I just add really quickly, Miles,

554
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: I agree he like about the child tax credit. I

555
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: think that was a really you know, that was terrible

556
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: that that lapsed. One interesting thing about voting rights is

557
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: that it is a very serious issue. There are several

558
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: states where they're they're rolling back, you know, they're making

559
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: it harder to vote. But it was interesting is that

560
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: the Brennan Center also put out a report about all

561
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: of the new pathways of voting that we're open during

562
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: the pandemic with mail and voting, and what with all

563
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: the hop of about mail and voting during the last election,

564
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: there's actually states that made it easier to vote. They

565
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: took the new pandemic pathways that had put into place

566
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: about voting, particularly around around mailing voting, and they kept them.

567
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: So this is just this is just aside to it

568
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: that is not often discussed. And you know, it's the

569
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: same thing about Zachary is saying that we're not we're

570
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: not trying to paint like you know, let's look at

571
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: everything through rose colored glasses. It's just a balance question. Yeah,

572
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: I mean I do think too that, you know, there

573
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: are some things that Biden is at vault for, like

574
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: the massive cash transfers that went into place during the pandemic,

575
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: like Zachary mentioned, were massively beneficial for people. It also

576
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: seemed to have kicked up inflation. I'm not sure how

577
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: much we can blame Biden for, you know, gas and

578
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: gas places going up and up and up with the

579
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: war right now. So I think some of them malaised

580
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: does have to do with like the Democrats are not delivering,

581
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,719
Speaker 1: and I think they're particularly not paying attention to voters

582
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: concerns about working and wages and worker power compared to

583
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: corporate power. But some of it too, I do think

584
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,239
Speaker 1: it is kind of like there's a bad vibe right now,

585
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure that the Democrats are all are

586
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: all to blame for that. I don't think that they

587
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: are all to blame because this is this is century

588
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: He's built up where now like the lived experience of

589
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: an American person is such where the American dream is

590
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 1: you know, not very accessible to most people anymore, and

591
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: that the feeling that people have is like, oh my God,

592
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 1: all that like post World War two glow is completely

593
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: faded away, and we're looking at like crumbling infrastructure, stagnant wages,

594
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: and like really massive societal issues where it looks like

595
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: the leadership in the country can't really like really address

596
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: the elephant in the room, which I think for voting

597
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: people is equal inequality and like broadly tackling that issue

598
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: to say, we absolutely hear you that being able to

599
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: live in a city has become it's prohibitively expensive, even

600
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: if you're just trying to if you're a single parent,

601
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: like good luck, like trying to do that. We hear you,

602
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: We understand that that is something that societally feels like

603
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: we need a realignment to say, what is the minimum

604
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: that an American deserves, you know, like many other countries

605
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: have that defined where it's like you will not go

606
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: broke because you you know, because you've got into medical

607
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: debt or things like that. If you want an education,

608
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: here go at it. Here you go. We could we

609
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: were there's a there's a place for you to attain that,

610
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 1: and I think we're by by not really getting into

611
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: that part. I think it's probably messy for both parties

612
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: because at some point they have to acknowledge their connection

613
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: to it. And I think that's what makes it a

614
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,959
Speaker 1: little bit difficult is that the you know, the both

615
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: parties in this country have been so entangled in that

616
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: inequality that it's like if they're finding it very difficult

617
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 1: to a acknowledge that they're the policies that they were

618
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: supporting and with the hopes of thinking like, yeah, this

619
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: is this is the way too, like have all of

620
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: the abundance flow to many people isn't working And to

621
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: really acknowledge that, to really say that that is completely

622
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: failed and we actually need to think about I think

623
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: that's what some people are waiting for, is like, can

624
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: we just acknowledge that this has failed? Because it's failed

625
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: so many people at this point, it's hard to say

626
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: that this is us moving in a beneficial direction. Yes,

627
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: I mean I have too pushbacks on that one is

628
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: I think it's not about inequality as much as it's

629
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: about what you just talked about. I mean, you could

630
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: reduce inequality the amount of inequality and still have people

631
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: not be able to afford living in cities and going

632
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: bankrupt for medical debt. It's the abundance part. It's the

633
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: non proliferation of sufficient abundance to enough people in a

634
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: in an otherwise highly affluent society, and inequality per se

635
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: is not reducing an equality doesn't solve those issues. Just

636
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: like you know, as we see with inflation, right, expanding

637
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: incomes doesn't do you much good if the cost of

638
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: things is rising more quickly than your incomes are expanding.

639
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: If costs went down, which was somewhat happening with the

640
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: declationary effects of technology, then you wouldn't necessarily need more

641
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: more income, right, because net net would be the same thing.

642
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: Your dollar would be buying more if the costs were

643
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: going down. If costs you're going up, your dollars buying less.

644
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: So I think it's more about the non sharing of

645
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: that abundance. And one of the real obstacles for the

646
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: United States is the set point of the mid twentieth century,

647
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: which we look at as some sort of normative moment

648
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 1: where everything worked, but so many stars aligned in that

649
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: moment that we're both of our own doing and also

650
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: global right World War two ends the United States is

651
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: more than that. Actually, all global industrial capacity the entire world. Right,

652
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: we were this engine because we hadn't been bombed you know,

653
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: we were the one bombing. We weren't the ones getting bombed.

654
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: We had emerged victorious. There was some degree of collective

655
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: unity that that had to do with white America, right,

656
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: And the g I Bill was great, but it didn't

657
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 1: extend to African Americans, that certainly didn't extent to women.

658
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: And yet we hold that up as the validation of

659
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: a system that worked. And I'm really of the mind

660
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: that we we hamper ourselves more by thinking that we

661
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: had a formula that worked that we are now failing,

662
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: rather than recognizing that we never really had the formula

663
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: we think we had and it never worked the way

664
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: we idealized it having worked. You know that we were

665
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: always much more flawed than we like to tell ourselves.

666
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: We're always more just like a group of humans who

667
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 1: had an interesting formula for social organization that did allow

668
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: for things a lot of other societies didn't and still don't.

669
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: But I think the fact that we look to that

670
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: moment in the forties and fifties and sixties as this

671
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: is when it worked and now we failed, I think

672
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: that's a false story of who we were. I mean,

673
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: who looks to that though? Who who are you talking

674
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: about when we talk about looking to the forties, fifties, sixties,

675
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: and seventies, I don't think that's who we're talking about. Well,

676
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,439
Speaker 1: when I even say that post war glow, I think

677
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: that's that that I'm not. That's not to say that's

678
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't idealize any moment in American istry. No,

679
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: I'm not getting you guys are, But I think are

680
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: a lot of our public debate speaks of a kind

681
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: of something worked, and then we out off track. Yeah.

682
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: The Republican Party and Fox News certainly do, right, Yeah,

683
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: but the Democrats do as well. This is a time

684
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: when there was more democracy, or more egalitarian nous, or

685
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: more rights that are being you know, I don't. I

686
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: don't think it's just one side here. What I see

687
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 1: is that the media, like when I say this post

688
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: war glow, is that that that's those that that is

689
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: like you're saying, that is looked at is like something

690
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: you know, that like we were doing okay or whatever.

691
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: But again you look at even as you as you

692
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 1: lay out, not all those benefits were distributed equally. In fact,

693
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: you know, most people, especially if you are not in

694
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: like the white mainstream, there really hasn't been a great

695
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: time for for those people in this country. And to

696
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: say that, like whether it's thinking that something worked and

697
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: then failed or just saying that like nothing is going right,

698
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: I think what we're saying is that the same thing

699
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: is that we're not We're not we're not actually arriving

700
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: at a moment we're trying to actually reckon with what's

701
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: going on. We have ways to kind of shroud the

702
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: discussion and something else then just silo it off into

703
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: like a separate thing and just make it about, Okay, well,

704
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: let's look at uh, let's look at how we can

705
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,439
Speaker 1: help out student loan like people with student loan debt,

706
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: or maybe we can look at how PELL grants are

707
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: distributed and how that's working. But again, all of these

708
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: issues are sort of part of this larger problem that

709
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 1: we have is that most American people on some level

710
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: have these like feelings of like I don't know if

711
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to have enough to make it or to

712
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: be have a level of financial stability. I look at

713
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: that with my friends who are in their mid thirties

714
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: who work at grocery stores still and talk about the

715
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 1: stress they have from doing like smaller jobs because it

716
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: was harder for them to go to college. They didn't

717
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: they weren't taking out student loans and things like that.

718
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: And there's I I see firsthand a lot about how

719
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: ground down people get. And that's my concern is that

720
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: I think, you know, even in in the past episode

721
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: you talk about this idea of nostalgia that we have,

722
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: of this idea of the return of the king and

723
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: someone will come to right all the wrongs, and it's

724
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: really not that simple. And I know people still think

725
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: that's like possible, but we we have to sort of

726
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: on a put all of that ship out of our

727
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: mind and say that there has to be this basic

728
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: reshifting or really looking at the things that we're saying

729
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: what is the minimum? And I think that's I think

730
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: that's an easier place a conversation to start for in general,

731
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: to talk about, this is what's the minimum an American

732
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: deserves by being a citizen? What is that? What is that? What?

733
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: How does that enable you to live a prosperous life. Yeah,

734
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 1: that I totally agree with. You know that there should

735
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: be some baseline understanding of what is an affluent society

736
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: provide as its contract to itself Because the basics of

737
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: you know, healthcare, education, shelter, food, you know, not not

738
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: not a particularly high bar or shouldn't be a particularly

739
00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: high bar of security. That once we established that, then

740
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: everybody's lives can go and all the different directions that

741
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: everybody's lives go. And one concern I have with the

742
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: malaise like storyline is, you know, the last time the

743
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: Democrats got like blamed for a nation with malaise, like

744
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: you know that that ended with or that led to

745
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: eight years of Reaganism and Republicans like just sort of

746
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: staying hyper focused on like the wealthy and like, you know,

747
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: America is great because of this small part of what

748
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: is happening in America. And I just I feel like

749
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: that tends to be I don't know, I don't I

750
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: don't want to see that dynamic again. But if the

751
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: Democrats continue to be just like the holding the holding

752
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: bag for like everything that's negative and the Republicans can

753
00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: just you know, invent new versions of themselves, like are

754
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: we going to just be like yo yoing back and

755
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: forth between you know, just insufferable like Republican leaders who

756
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: are saying wild ship about what they're going to do,

757
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: and you know, threatening horrible things and you know, being

758
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: horrible leaders back to like a you know, sane democratic

759
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: alternative that then everyone's like yeah, but like this problem

760
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: is still there. Like I feel like that's the dynamic

761
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: we're currently at, is that whatever you diagnose the problem being.

762
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: And I think that there's a a huge unacknowledged like

763
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: wound from two thousand eight that like the end from

764
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: like you know, corporate you know what when we talk

765
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: about like Biden not getting things done in office and

766
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: like it's stopping with like mansion and cinema, like that

767
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: was they are like have influenced by like dark money

768
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: and corporate interests, and you know, it just feels like

769
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: we're like the Democratic Party and like that mainstream has

770
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: chosen to be the sort of holding bag for like

771
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: all of this malaise. But like they don't have like

772
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 1: some alternative that they're they're they're not choosing to offer

773
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: an alternative. I guess I definitely hear you about like

774
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: the wound from two thousand and eight. I talked about

775
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: this with my friends a lot some mimennial and a

776
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: lot of us got really screwed going into college, during

777
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: college and coming out of college and it did lead

778
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: to a lot of us, you know, sort of getting

779
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: behind as far as not being able to settle a

780
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: life for ourselves with enough money to buy a house,

781
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: particularly in a city that's relatively expensive. But I also

782
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: just think like the Democrats are not working with the

783
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 1: things that they should be working with. Like Miles brought

784
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: at the child tax credit, they were that also is

785
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: something that has bipersion support. There are Republicans who support

786
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: various versions of that. They should be going straightforward towards that.

787
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 1: Why aren't they The whole discussion around student loan debt

788
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: I find really odd because once you cancel out everyone's

789
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: student loan debt, you're still left with the undiscussed problem.

790
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: Like you guys are pointing out that it's prohibitly expensive

791
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: to attend a lot of private colleges. So you might

792
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: have solved that, you know, in a moment in time. Okay, great,

793
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: everyone who has you know, a lot of debt is

794
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: free from that. But a lot of the student loaned

795
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: it that's being hold held in the United States is

796
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 1: from from for profit colleges. And like I said, it's

797
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: not going to solve the situation of people entering into

798
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: college just going to graduate with him with more debt.

799
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: And again the you know, the Democrats are also not

800
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: focusing on healthcare, so techo that, Yeah, there were things

801
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: that the Democrats could have done in that because of

802
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: the party's sort of maximums position about a lot of

803
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: these things didn't happen. You know. Even Jim mentioned had

804
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: a voting rights bill that he had helped craft, that

805
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: he have supported that was far less than the voting

806
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: rights bill that was passed in Congress, but was far

807
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: more than no voting rights bill and would have given

808
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: the federal government much more teeth to take on some

809
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: of these restrictions in some of these states. There was

810
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: also a series of social spendings that could have passed

811
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 1: through through the Senate. Emma talked about the child task Credit.

812
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: But there was a kind of a maximum position, and

813
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: I think in many ways, you know, a lot of

814
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 1: what is disparaging about the Democrats is the degree to

815
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: which by trying to govern as if there was this

816
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: huge mandate without recognizing that. Look, I mean there's a

817
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,280
Speaker 1: whole series of Democrats in swing districts, in non urban

818
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: areas of the country. You know, people like Alyssa Slankin

819
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: in Michigan and Tom Malinowski New Jersey, who's an old friend,

820
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: and Abigail Spansburger and Virginia and Cindy Asney and in

821
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: Iowa who support all these things, you know, and and

822
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: and feel like they have a constituency that would support them,

823
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: but but not at the most you we're gonna remake

824
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: society allow what more urban you know, younger educated voters won.

825
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: And by not taking the half loaf, you know, the

826
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: proverbial like not taking the deal that was on the

827
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: table and going for the wish list, I think that's

828
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it is almost impossible to overstate what a

829
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: mistake that is. And it changes the narrative in a

830
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: way that didn't have to be. You know, there's more

831
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 1: support for a lot of these things because they affect

832
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: a lot of humans lives, irrespective of what party they

833
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: affiliate themselves with. And uh, you know, I think that's

834
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: going to be part of the real challenge for the Democrats,

835
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: other than the fact they've done a really effective job

836
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: counter Jerryandering well. And I think the issue though two

837
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: is right, like they'll come out with these maximalist solutions

838
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: on the campaign trail to court the voters, and then

839
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: when it's time for the rubber to hit the road,

840
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: the lobbyists step in and completely derail everything. And I

841
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: think that's a huge right. I think that's why for me,

842
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how the current set up is equipped

843
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 1: to actually take on these issues because they're so systemic.

844
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: I used to be a lobbyist for a for profit

845
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: education institution, and the work I did had nothing to

846
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: do with education and had everything to do with exerting

847
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: pressure on, you know, politicians, to convince voters that this

848
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 1: politician was using X policy to benefit them when they weren't.

849
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 1: And my whole existence was predicated on a wealthy donor

850
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: wanting to make sure that his business was doing well.

851
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: And I think that's a huge, huge blind spot in

852
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 1: the discussion, is that it's it's it's not just Joe

853
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 1: Manchin sat down and looked at the Build Back Better

854
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: Infrastructure bill and said, you know, cutting it back at

855
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: trillion dollars every couple of months, which coincides with I

856
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: think why Biden's numbers by the fall hit hit such

857
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: a weird point because we started we started off the

858
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: spring thinking this this bill is gonna work. Then slowly,

859
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: you got to see that a lot of the like

860
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: sort of more corporatist elements of the party, but you

861
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: could see where their interests were. People suddenly are now

862
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: voting to block bills that we're going to bring prescription

863
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: costs lower and low and behold, it's coming from people

864
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: whose biggest donors are from the pharmaceutical industry. And I think, yeah, like, well,

865
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: and all of that is pretty disheartening. But I think

866
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: if when that's completely absent from the conversation, we're gonna

867
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: keep we're gonna keep getting stuck in this like abstract

868
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 1: version like what's really going on without again reckoning with

869
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 1: what this how the system is actually operating and who

870
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: who actually can you know, pull those levers at that

871
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: certain points when they want to, Yeah, I'm with you

872
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: about healthcalth health care for sure, Miles. I mean, coming

873
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: to Greece and and living in uh that's probably one

874
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: of the worst European countries as far as health insurance goes.

875
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: The dramatic difference between here in the United States is

876
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: like it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. I feel like I should

877
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 1: recommend everyone if they can, like go live in Europe,

878
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:07,879
Speaker 1: if you can, for sometimes see what the health care

879
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: is like, then come back you'll have a crystal clear

880
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: idea of how much better it could be In the

881
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: United States. Yeah, and unfortunately, too many people just living

882
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: the version where they're experiencing the worst kind ever without

883
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: any idea of how much how good it can be,

884
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 1: and we're just grinding people down to like nothing. I

885
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: feel like that's it. It's like meant, it's like I've

886
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 1: gone through periods where I ignore my mental health and

887
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: just like grind myself and then like, you know, there

888
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: there are negative consequences, but if you just like don't

889
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: take that as a as a factor into consideration. But like,

890
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: the the reality of like living in America in a

891
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: place where like getting sick or hurt can like bankrupt

892
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: you is so fucked up, like so dark. And the

893
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 1: fact that like you know, you would have to like

894
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: that you feel like you need to suggest to people

895
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: like you guys have to see this ship. It's crazy

896
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,359
Speaker 1: like over there you can get hurt and not be bankrupted.

897
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: Is like that that feels. I don't know. I think

898
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: there are a lot of things that we kind of

899
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: lose track of because we're so used to them, as

900
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: you guys have kind of talked about, but that need

901
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: to be improved and are the thing that is like

902
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: grinding people down, like you were saying, well, I mean

903
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: I will say to you that there's pros and content everywhere.

904
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: So I would be remiss to say that if you're

905
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,919
Speaker 1: on public health insurance here in Greece, part of your

906
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: medical experience is not going to be bankruptcy, but it

907
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: is going to be bribing the doctors in the hospitals

908
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: that they'll actually take care of you. So yeah, I

909
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: mean health insurance is hard. Let's just say that. Yeah,

910
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 1: because again, like I think it speaks to the this

911
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: perversion of like certain industries where we're not taking certain

912
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: things saying that's not a thing where you need to

913
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: go and you know, exploit and extract trillions of dollars

914
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: out of Like that's that's that that's at a minimum,

915
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: a thing to keep people healthy and alive. Like, don't

916
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 1: don't begin to to mix that up with growth and

917
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: shareholder value and those kinds of ideas, because yeah, we've

918
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: we come. When we do that, we completely reduce people

919
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: to just shoot on the spreadsheet abstract numbers and at

920
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: a certain point, one person being like, I need to

921
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: crank this up by half a percent means tens of

922
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 1: thousands of people going to bankruptcy. And we're like, we're

923
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 1: completely i think, divorced from like the humanity of it all,

924
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: which I think is just unfortunately that happens a lot

925
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: of the people who are the most vulnerable. We forget

926
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: about it because it's not necessarily maybe presents the greatest

927
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: threat to the most people all the time, but it's

928
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: simmers and it ends up, you know where eventually that

929
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: that rot touches all of us. So I had to

930
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: say one of the things that really startled me in

931
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: pandemic time, the heart of it was, like a fair

932
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 1: number of us, I looked to Western European national health

933
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: systems with a degree of admiration of some sense that

934
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 1: this is a public good right. It should be channeled

935
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 1: through private industry. It should be a product of a

936
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 1: profit motive, per se. It should be about Look, every

937
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: person in a society should be able to get the

938
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: health care they need for the lives they want to live.

939
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: But those national systems were no more able to cope

940
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 1: with the demands of of a pandemic for the most

941
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 1: part and showed in many the same fissures between sort

942
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: of haves have nots that the United States did, partly

943
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: because their own budgets had been investrated over the prior years,

944
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: because people didn't want to really pay taxes to support

945
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 1: that collective good, and they were susceptible to the same

946
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 1: mantras of efficiency. And efficiency means you know, you don't

947
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: have spare beds, it means when a crisis hits, there's

948
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: no slack. Slack costs money. All I'm saying is like,

949
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: it is true that we have massive structural impediments to

950
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: delivering some of the goods that you talk about, but

951
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: it is eye opening to see the degree to which

952
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: it's very hard to find a human assemblage on the

953
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: planet that does this particularly well other than some, you know,

954
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 1: smaller homogeneous societies. You can say, look, Denmark does this

955
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:17,320
Speaker 1: pretty well, but Denmark's like you know, Manhattan plus Queens.

956
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's not said with any pejorative right,

957
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: It's just I think it's easier when there's fewer people

958
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: and they're all somewhat related. I do have to say

959
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: I bribe all my doctors just to get better reports better,

960
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: like which put from my height there, doctor dropped like

961
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 1: twenty pounds from the weight and that cholesterol needs to

962
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 1: come way down. Bro. You can bribe people here to

963
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: get a driver's license to which is why it's really

964
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: scary to drive here. Wow, all right, let's take a

965
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: quick break. We'll come back and talk for like five

966
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: minutes about vampires and then we'll let you guys go

967
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: and we're back. Um, and this is this is kind

968
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 1: of a weird one. This is just like, uh, you know,

969
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: something I noticed, but I'm curious to get you guys thoughts.

970
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 1: But I just like head and listen to MPR. And

971
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: probably a year, Um, something happened with the way my

972
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,760
Speaker 1: phone was connected to my car, so I started popping

973
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: on every once in a while around the time of

974
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 1: the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And it's like I was

975
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 1: hearing it again like with fresh years, and it just

976
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 1: felt insane to me, Like it's like it's so gentle

977
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 1: and like it's explaining the death of a of a

978
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: pet to a child, but they're explaining the news of

979
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:51,959
Speaker 1: the world to an entire generation of adults. Um. And yeah,

980
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 1: So I mean that's basically my thesis. That if we

981
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: weren't used to it from like decades of MPR being

982
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: like a one of the primary neoliberal sources of information,

983
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 1: we'd all be like this is so fucking weird. Um.

984
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: And then I do wonder if there's you know, a

985
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: a larger point about the amount of cognitive dissonance that's

986
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: required for the type of people who listen to NPR,

987
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: sort of that gentry class of liberals, like where there's

988
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: just a lot of calories, a lot of mental calorie,

989
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 1: Like you could mint a bitcoin with the amount of

990
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: mental work that's required too, you know, both be aware

991
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: of all the inequality in the world, uh, and also

992
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: believe that like the mainstream d NC is the answer

993
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: and you know, buying into mainstream corporate media narratives and

994
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: like still feeling like you're the good guy. Like it's

995
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: just it all feels very um, Like it's a it's

996
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 1: a lot of work, it's a it's a weird position

997
00:56:55,840 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 1: to be in as a neoliberal. And so I feel

998
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: like there's something something about this aesthetic that like helps

999
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 1: just be like, no, it's okay, this is all happening.

1000
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: So you are right, you are You're good because you're

1001
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: listening to stuff about the bad stuff happening enough to

1002
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 1: get like a cursory understanding of of the details. Um,

1003
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:21,439
Speaker 1: but don't worry. We're gonna make it down, go down

1004
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: very smooth, and we're going to talk to you in

1005
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: the way that uh, you know, you're you're snobby friends

1006
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: talk to you and you know it's we're just doing

1007
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: this over a glass of like pinot grig. Don't worry,

1008
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: like it's all cool. Um, I don't know what do

1009
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: you what do you guys? I know I totally feel

1010
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: that because and we talked, We talked about this all

1011
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: the time. Because then no mainstream media outlet, like it's

1012
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: always meant to sort of frame all these conversations in

1013
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: a very tidy thing where it's it's not going to

1014
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: bring too much, it's not gonna bring the reader or

1015
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 1: listener or viewer to ask really tough questions about like

1016
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: US foreign policy or domestic economic policy. It'll describe a

1017
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: problem you know, somewhat you know in a balanced way,

1018
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: but also not really confront the problem or offer solutions

1019
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: to the listener, which would actually spur the next first thing,

1020
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: like the next thought on. Because if it's just like

1021
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: and it's all bad, but it's being contained there. And

1022
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: due to that, like the people do have a more

1023
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: optimistic outlook on the chances of Russia being successful in

1024
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 1: their invasion of Ukraine. And you're like, Okay, I don't

1025
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: really I know that's happening. I don't need to fucking

1026
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: think deeper about this. I don't even need to think

1027
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: of like what does this mean for the military industrial

1028
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: complex in the United States? Why some factions of the U. S.

1029
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 1: Government like all in on this, others aren't. What's the

1030
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: deal there? Why there's like you know, it's it's again. Yeah,

1031
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: like you're saying, it sells like an illusion of being

1032
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: tapped in and that you're you're on top of it

1033
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: all without challenging you enough to really kind of begins.

1034
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: Doesn't have anything to do you think with that um

1035
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: that annoying thing, what does it? Ally fatigue how people

1036
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: are just they're like, oh, man, I cared about this cause,

1037
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: but can't we take the black squares off our Instagram? Yet?

1038
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: You know that kind of thing where it's like it's

1039
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 1: like you want to be there and you want to

1040
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: support and fight, but like you also wanted to be

1041
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: kind of easy and simple and short, and like maybe

1042
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: there's something to that, like if you if it goes

1043
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: down with a little bit of sugar and a smooth,

1044
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 1: you know, airy voice, then it's easier to handle. But yeah,

1045
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: then you're not necessarily hearing it all or understanding how

1046
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: big it could be because you're just like, this is

1047
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: just it's like neatly contained, right, Yeah, and it's the

1048
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 1: emotion is removed. Um. It's very much like hearing a

1049
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: professor talk about a thing that like an event from

1050
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 1: history more so than it's like hearing somebody at that

1051
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: this thing is actually happening, to that there's a you

1052
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: exist in the world where this is happening. Um. But yeah,

1053
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: I think like the ally fatigue syndrome and like NPR,

1054
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,439
Speaker 1: which has been doing this for you know, decades now,

1055
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: but I think they both come from the same place

1056
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: of you know, wanting to feel like you are on

1057
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: the right side while also wanting to stay at a

1058
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: safe distance from the like what what is actually happening? Um?

1059
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: I have this clip that I pulled and I literally

1060
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 1: just like I was like, it would be helpful if

1061
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 1: we had a clip, uh, this morning, and I went

1062
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: to the NBR website and was like, let's find them.

1063
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: The thing that made me notice it was a story

1064
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: about Russia's invasion of Ukraine. So I just went and

1065
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: looked for a story where they were talking about that,

1066
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: and I've like four minutes in. I thought, this is

1067
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: you know, this isn't like that I'm catching them saying

1068
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: something wild or anything. This is just an example of

1069
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. Um, I don't know, Miles, do

1070
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: you wanna like, I have the link there, I could

1071
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: just pull it up. Yeah, so for for ten, is

1072
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: this a podcast? No, well this is on the NPR.

1073
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 1: They so they serve everything as a podcast. And I

1074
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: should say, like in relation to the podcast. Um, when

1075
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 1: we started like our little shingle of like how stuff Works,

1076
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: which became my heart, Like, one of our stated goals

1077
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: was to create shows that did were not influenced by

1078
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: the nprs that because it felt like so many shows

1079
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: were just like you know, this American Life and then

1080
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: This American Life Descendants and like everybody was just like, hey,

1081
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: so this is a you know, um, but yeah, the

1082
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: NPR is wild influential to the point that like this

1083
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 1: might not even sound that crazy to people who listen

1084
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: to a lot of podcasts eligence capabilities, including So this

1085
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: is just the end of the support of how the

1086
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 1: US is helping to investigate work runs NPR Justice correspondent

1087
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 1: Ryan Lucas, Thank you, Ryan than you. Isn't that soothing?

1088
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: I guess nice Susan boys, there some nice soothing music.

1089
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: The first step in confirming that comes in next door

1090
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 1: to look for themselves. Days ago our colleagues got detro

1091
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: how to look around Boora Yanka. That's one of the

1092
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: cities near Kiev from which Russian forces recently withdrew. And

1093
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 1: today we hear Scott's stories of two people who survived

1094
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: the Russian occupation. Natasha and her daughter's family spent a

1095
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: month hiding in a cramp key. What did we eat?

1096
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: Mostly potatoes. I had some spare oil and then I

1097
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: have a cow, so I had milk, and I went

1098
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 1: to my neighbor. I gave her some milk. She gave

1099
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: me some other things, some cheese. So this is how

1100
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 1: we survived. So that's all right. That was the main

1101
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 1: like kind of pieces I wanted to play because you know,

1102
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: so Scott, Scott and Skip comes in very calm, just

1103
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 1: like you know, this is the story we're we're going

1104
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 1: to give you some stuff from the ground, and then

1105
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: they bring in somebody who is, you know, very emotional

1106
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: and like you know, breaks down a little later in

1107
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: the interview, but then they like overlay her with someone

1108
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: who sounds like they're recounting a meal they prepared over

1109
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: a glass of wine. Like ever, yeah, yeah, just when

1110
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: you're talking military operation. Yeah, yeah, for context that that

1111
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: woman uh was hiding in her basement, um, starving with children,

1112
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 1: trying to hide from Russia who was trying to murder her,

1113
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: and like like what do we eat? Well, we had

1114
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 1: a nice little like potato saute, and like it's like

1115
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: this kind of feel is disingenuous because like they are

1116
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 1: giving people information that people need. I just want to

1117
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: take a moment to acknowledge the aesthetic and uh make

1118
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 1: fun of it because it is fucking weird. Will say that.

1119
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 1: I remember I was watching CNN and like watching the

1120
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: election results come in, and I was getting so stressed

1121
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: out and had such anxiety, so I had to turn

1122
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: it to CBC Canadian TV because they were just they're

1123
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: just talking. They were just they're presenting the facts and

1124
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: not going crazy, and there weren't like air horns and

1125
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: loud noises every five minutes, and it was like the

1126
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: only way I could handle it. So it's like I

1127
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: know that you know that that's working. You know, it

1128
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: gives them, you know, more listeners, and people are drawn

1129
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: to that for that reason, I think, But yeah, what

1130
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 1: does that say necessarily about people, Like that's how they

1131
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: have to handle work crimes and things. Well, yeah, and

1132
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: it's just how It's just like the messaging, right, Like

1133
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:48,959
Speaker 1: it's one thing if someone's like, oh, hey, that house

1134
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: is on fire, that house is on fire. Ye in

1135
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 1: human it's it's it's the humanity out of it was strange,

1136
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 1: and so your respond to it is going to be

1137
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: completely different too. It's like it gives you the news

1138
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: with a like little like anti anxiety medication, Like so yeah, yeah,

1139
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:12,919
Speaker 1: I don't need Yeah, people don't need to be listening

1140
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 1: to like the death Metal of News podcast. You're like,

1141
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 1: it's all fucking over. But at the same time, you

1142
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: do do people a disservice because like you're saying, but this,

1143
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 1: even this is even how I saw it, especially the

1144
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 1: summer covering all the police Fucori. They were like then

1145
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: some have seen it as potentially being racially motivated behavior,

1146
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 1: and you're like, hold on, yeah, we're we're all looking

1147
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 1: at this in real time, and you can't even come

1148
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 1: out and properly sort of catch people up. I think

1149
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: is the energy should be there's there's a serious issue

1150
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 1: with law enforcement. I think that's just there. And I

1151
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 1: get that. I think people see like we're auditorializing by

1152
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: saying something like that, But you also need to convey

1153
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: the severity of something to people, because if you say

1154
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: it all monotone, you're gonna think, oh, yeah, just a

1155
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 1: few bad apples. Meanwhile, you look at the people who

1156
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: are in the streets and the way they speak about it.

1157
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 1: They're not like, oh, it's this or that. We're talking

1158
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:09,919
Speaker 1: about existential threats, and I think to take that out

1159
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 1: of the way you're telling the news allows people to think, oh,

1160
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, the the invasion might be fucked up

1161
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 1: in Ukraine, but that woman seemed so, she had a cow,

1162
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: she had some oil. Yeah, yeah, this is yeah. I mean,

1163
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 1: this is the whole NPR aesthetic, is itself a reaction

1164
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: to the like you know, Dan rather Peter what's his

1165
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: name from ABC, Tom Broke, Peter Jennings, like that whole

1166
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 1: like and like it's unnatural like that that is, it's

1167
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 1: the weird, unnatural trying to play the center type thing UM,

1168
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: and NPR is like, no, we'll talk to you UM

1169
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 1: in this other way that feels less like artificial. But

1170
01:06:55,920 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 1: now it's like so uniform across so many channels, and

1171
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 1: it just doesn't like it's now its own weird artificial

1172
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 1: thing that seems to be aiming to just like make

1173
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: everybody feel calm about uh and like feel like they're

1174
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 1: the good guy and you know, get well can wear

1175
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 1: their tote bag with pride um and yeah, so I

1176
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 1: asked uh super producers Becca and Tricia to you know,

1177
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 1: Becca looked into just like a history of like what

1178
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 1: what are other people pointing this out? And she pulled

1179
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 1: some very funny tweets and also like I think a

1180
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: really smart one where somebody, um how Alex safe Cummings tweeted, Uh,

1181
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 1: the system has every reason to want to revert back

1182
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 1: to the norm, to the even keeled MPR tone of voice,

1183
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 1: and it will probably try. But Trump, to his credit,

1184
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 1: in a weird way, has blown up all duplicitous civility

1185
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 1: to the ruling class. The pretty West wing illusions are

1186
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 1: mostly gone, and like, I think that's interesting to think

1187
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:07,800
Speaker 1: of Trump as, uh, what one of the things he

1188
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 1: is reacting to is like this insufferable neo liberal class

1189
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:19,600
Speaker 1: of just you know that tone, like he Trump's rude, conversational,

1190
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:26,200
Speaker 1: like kind of weird speaking style as a breaking out

1191
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: of the like quiet politeness that MPR embodies. Um is

1192
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: kind of an interesting way to think about that. UM.

1193
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:37,640
Speaker 1: And then and then there is apparently like straight up

1194
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 1: gate keeping UM, Like we don't have them in a

1195
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:46,400
Speaker 1: room telling people to like be more zand out, which

1196
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: was the assignment. I was like, can you find out

1197
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: if they have like a candy bowl full of like

1198
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 1: xan x at the office or like conditioning? What do

1199
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: they tell the people before they go on the air?

1200
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 1: Is my question? Like I I still like, well, we

1201
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 1: won't find this out, but if if zy gang, if

1202
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 1: any of our listeners have experience with this, like I

1203
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 1: I'm dying to know, like what are there is there

1204
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,720
Speaker 1: a process where they're like nope, okay, just calmer, all right? Now?

1205
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 1: Can you take it down just a little bit more?

1206
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 1: You're at like a three. I need you at like

1207
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 1: a one minus. UM, Like I would love to just

1208
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 1: hear what that's like. Maybe when they're in person, the

1209
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:31,720
Speaker 1: hosts talk super quietly, they're like, so you compare, so

1210
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 1: then the other person that's talking to them feels like

1211
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: they need to talk quietly to like maybe it's just

1212
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 1: this weird like mirroring thing. Feel bad for the people

1213
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 1: of color who work in there. And they're like, let

1214
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 1: me tell you what I did. They're like, what, thank you,

1215
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, yeah, I mean so. Uh. Producer Tricia pulled

1216
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:51,560
Speaker 1: a story about, you know, somebody who an MPR contributor

1217
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:53,760
Speaker 1: who was preparing a story for air when he became

1218
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 1: aware that he was altering his speaking style to fit

1219
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 1: would he believe to be the MPR voice? Um? And

1220
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 1: then you know there there's another story where somebody was

1221
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 1: basically told, uh that they couldn't come on the air

1222
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 1: on NPR because their accent seemed to or their voice

1223
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 1: seemed to accent at Giselle Regatto road an essay and

1224
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: the Columbia Journalism Review in which she recounted her attempt

1225
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 1: to pitch a story to NPR, only to be told

1226
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: by an editor that her piece would not air out

1227
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:29,679
Speaker 1: of concern for her accent. Um So you know there's

1228
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 1: that too, like there's obviously a crazy bias there, um,

1229
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: and its yeah, go ahead, no, just do you think

1230
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:40,640
Speaker 1: about what you're talking about Trump, right, And like the

1231
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 1: I get you know, I get that it's soothing, right,

1232
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,679
Speaker 1: that it makes it easier, But at the same time,

1233
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,639
Speaker 1: it deep down we know it's disingenuous because we're only

1234
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:52,559
Speaker 1: listening to it because we feel that we need to

1235
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 1: know about it, but don't want to get freaked out

1236
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,439
Speaker 1: by the sort of the scale of the issue that

1237
01:10:57,479 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: we're trying to learn about. And I think that's another

1238
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:03,680
Speaker 1: reason why a lot of people just you know, like

1239
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 1: people responded to Trump because if you're hearing on the news,

1240
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:08,880
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, you know, medical dad or blah blah blah,

1241
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: and this guy's been like the pharmaceutical costs are out

1242
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: of control and like that energy people like exactly, that's

1243
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: that that actually connects energetically with what I'm feeling about

1244
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:23,719
Speaker 1: this whole situation. It's not the way it was presented

1245
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: to me. It's that I'm living in a very grim reality.

1246
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,600
Speaker 1: So to present my grim reality with you know this

1247
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,639
Speaker 1: like you know, this paint of Cote or this quote

1248
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:35,880
Speaker 1: or code of paint that makes it really shiny doesn't

1249
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 1: help me anyway in any way. So yeah, people are

1250
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 1: gonna gravitate towards the people who at least are speaking

1251
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 1: with a level of emotion to it or acknowledging this verity,

1252
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 1: even if it's disingenuous, because that feels more real. Yeah,

1253
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 1: all right, that's gonna do it for this week's weekly Zeite. Guys,

1254
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 1: please like and review the show. If you like, the

1255
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 1: show means the world of Miles. He needs your validation. Folks,

1256
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:07,720
Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great weekend and I will

1257
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 1: talk to you Monday. By