WEBVTT - #453 Jason Flom with Jennifer McMullan at the 2024 Innocence Conference 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.080 The following interview was recorded in person at the twenty 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:10.160 twenty four Innocent Network Conference in New Orleans. On March sixth, 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:14.640 two thousand and one, in McHenry, Illinois, two masked men, 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.720 one armed with a twenty two, attempted to rob a 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:22.000 Mexican takeout joint, but the owner grabbed a butcher knife 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.800 and his employee followed. As they chased the men out, 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:30.040 they caught one of the assailants and removed his mask. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:34.080 The other assailant turned around, ripped off his mask and 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:39.000 opened fire, fatally shooting the owner and the surviving employee 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.040 ran back inside to call the police. The police canvass 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.760 the area and discovered four young people in a house 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:50.760 up the street, including a young woman named Jennifer McMullen. Eventually, 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.800 she and two of her friends confessed to a role 0:00:54.280 --> 0:01:06.880 in the robbery homicide. But this is wrongful conviction. Wrongful 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.840 conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison, 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.520 and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.800 at eight three, three, two oh seven four six sixty 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.200 six and tell us how these stories make you feel 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.800 and what you've done to help the cause, even if 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.639 it's something as simple as telling a friend or sharing 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.960 on social media, and you might just hear yourself in 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.520 a future episode. Call us eight three three, two oh 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:44.640 seven four six sixty six. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:48.320 Today's story is it's like something out of a Quentin 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:52.560 Tarantino movie, and the investigation, if you can call it, that, 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.440 is like something out of The Three Stooges or Keystone 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.760 Cops or something much more sinister. First of all, we 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.000 have I don't know why this is first time, but 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:03.760 for the first time, we have the co director of 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:07.000 the Illinois Innocence Project, Stephanie Cammell. She's been hiding out 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:08.920 from us while some of her colleagues have been on 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.000 the show multiple times. But it's overdue. But I'm really 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:13.079 honored to have you here. 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.600 Thank you so much for having us and for profiling 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:17.480 Jennifer's case. We really appreciate it. 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:19.320 You go, don't embarrass you, but you're kind of a 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:21.760 legend in this space, so you know, it's really great 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.320 to have you here, and I'm very lucky and honored 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.720 to have the person here who lived through this ordeal, 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.079 Jennifer McMullin. Thanks for being here. Welcome to Ronful conviction. 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:33.080 Thank you so much. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:35.880 And I always say I'm so happy you're here, but 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.079 I'm sorry you're here because you should have never been 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.000 on this show in the first place. This is this 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.080 case came with instructions. You were only nineteen when this 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:44.840 happened and the top of what your life was like 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:48.400 because you were a law abiding, sort of normal person. 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:49.800 You were born where. 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:51.520 Oh, Libertyville, Illinois. 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:55.520 Libertyville ALLNOI it sounds very all American, it is. Is 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.400 it like one traffic light like that kind of place. 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.880 I mean, it's it's a busy small town, but yeah, 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.400 it's an amazing place. I was born there and grew 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.799 up around Lake Beach with my stepfather and mother, only child, 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:11.000 three older siblings. The eldest is my brother, and then 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.280 the other two are sisters. There's ten years difference between 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.720 me and the next daughter. So they were all out 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.760 and getting married and having families, and I was the oops. 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:22.880 I came ten years later. 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.160 So growing up in my teens, I was the only 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.960 one in the house. But yeah, it was a great childhood. 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:32.600 Never in trouble, was always in sports, softball, soccer, competitive cheer, 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.120 and dance. Sports was definitely a passion for me. 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.680 Got it? Okay, so it sounds like a nice childhood. 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:43.640 Yeah, absolutely, I had an amazing childhood, amazing parents, siblings, family. 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.440 It was great and quite an athletic resume you have there, 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.840 as well as someone who didn't make the sports teams 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.000 in high school. I'm a little jealous, but you know, 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.320 I'm going to let that slide. That's why I played 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.600 the guitar and smoked pot instead. But that's a different podcast. 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.960 We're not going to talk about that now. But anyway, Okay, 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:03.920 so then let's go to this crime. Okay. This was 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.120 on March six of two thousand and one. Two masked 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:11.640 men attempted to rob a small restaurant in McHenry, Illinois, 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.760 right a Burrito express. The owner, welding a butcher knife, 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.480 and his employee chased the two men out of the restaurant, 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.640 and an ensuing chase, the owner was shot and killed. Jennifer, 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.760 you stumbled onto this scene right, so to speak. I mean, 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.520 you were talk about wrong place, wrong time. Absolutely tell 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:32.480 us how you came upon this chaotic and terrifying scene 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.000 and then how you eventually got implicated. 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:35.800 Definitely. 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.320 So that day, I remember I had got a call 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.080 from one of my friends who needed to find somebody 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.920 to borrow a laptop, so I called another friend who 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:47.000 I knew had one. So I went and grabbed my 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.839 three code defendants. We headed out to Twin Lakes, Wisconsin. 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.720 You know, just young listening to music and join a 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.360 car ride. Get to Twin Lakes. We end up finding 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.400 out that my friend wasn't allowed to loan out her laptop. 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:00.680 I think we say they are about fifty minutes, you know, 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.520 just chit chatting, and then we were on our way, 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.480 the four of us again and headed it out to mckenry, Illinois, 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.159 where one of my co defendants had a very close 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:11.520 family friend who lived out there. 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.120 Our listeners may remember mckenry, Illinois from the story of 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:19.400 Mario Kasharo, whose lead detective was a former failed hardware 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:23.440 store stock boy. Yeah. I know it sounds crazy, but 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:27.240 it's true. And it's the same prosecutorial team Combs and 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:32.440 Kanneely who prosecuted Mario three separate times while having more 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.280 evidence supporting an alternative narrative. And we're going to have 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:39.400 that incredible episode linked in the episode description because Jennifer's 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:41.360 case bears such a strong resemblance. 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.600 As we're going into mckenry, we heard like a lot 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.160 of commotion, ambulance squad cars. We ended up going to 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.279 a smoke shop dispensary type place. Only one code defendant 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:53.159 went in and the rest of us stayed in the car. 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.919 From there we went to another co defendant's friend's house, 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.400 which ended up being right in the vicinity of the 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:01.320 Brito Express. 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:06.280 Jennifer's friends and later co defendants Kenneth Smith, Justin Hoftling, 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:10.120 and David Collette. Their sole connection to the situation was 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.719 that they arrived at their friend's house near the Burrito 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.039 Express in the aftermath of this robbery turned homicide that 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.160 occurred around seven to twenty pm the same evening. 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.600 Two masked men came into the Brito Express. No one 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:26.320 was in there except the owner of all Presento and 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:28.800 his employee, at Wardo Pardo, and they were in the 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.640 back and the first mask man had a twenty two 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:37.440 caliber gun and they were attempting to rob the Brito Express. 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.640 Mister Briseno took the butcher knife and started chasing them, 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:45.200 with mister Pardo following right behind him. They chased them out. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:50.200 Now this is March in northern Illinois. There's ice, it's cold, 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.440 and one of the perpetrators slips on the ice and falls, 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:59.159 and so mister Pardo grabs him, takes off his mask 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.120 so he gets a good look at him and starts 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.920 dragging him back to the restaurant. Mister Briseno, the owner, 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.320 has yelled at a passing car to call the police, 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.560 and the perpetrator starts yelling to his friend because he's 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.320 now been caught. The friend turns around and removes his 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.680 mask and starts shooting. He's trying to get him to 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.200 let his friend go, and mister Preseno and Pardo are 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.920 dragging him back to the Brito Express. At one point, 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.960 mister Presento gets hit, and so mister Pardo drops the 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:34.400 perpetrator and runs in and calls the police. By the 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.640 time he comes back out, the two men are gone 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.680 and mister Burzeno is on the ground and has been shot. 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.160 He died a little bit later. Within ten minutes of 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:48.040 everything starting. The police were there, and mister Pardo spent 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.200 a couple of hours that night with law enforcement, and 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:56.320 they got composite sketches of each of the suspects that night. 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.960 Pardo also said that the assailant heat caught was wearing 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.080 green leather jacket and police began to canvass the area 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.520 looking for suspects. Meanwhile, Jennifer and her friends were just 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:08.200 up the hill from the Burrito Express. 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.480 Throughout the evening, we were watching out the back window 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.320 of that house. We saw detectives putting you know, the 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.920 yellow markers on the ground for the different things that 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.240 they were finding. I ended up not driving home that 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:21.960 night because I was scared. I called my mother and 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.160 told her, you know, something was going on in this area. 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:26.080 I'm gonna go ahead and stay here for the night. 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:28.360 It was the four of us. The mother came home 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.920 from work, she worked at a gas station nearby the house. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.480 There was a couple of younger kids there, you know, 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.240 and we were just in the house actually watching the 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.520 news of the scene of the crime in what was 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.080 going on. Of course you're interested, and it's you know, 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.520 happening right behind you. And then we all eventually went 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.280 to sleep. While we were sleeping, mc henry police were 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.839 doing canvassing of the neighborhood and when they had came 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.320 to the house, they asked for the people's IDs who 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.440 were in the house. I was sleeping and they were 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:56.880 given to my id out of my purse. 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.679 As she said, they canvassed the neighborhood and had all 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.360 the different identification and so Jennifer I think, was questioned 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:09.320 a couple of different times and obviously told them they 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:13.800 knew nothing about this. And what we've learned later is 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.280 they seemed to zero in on her friend, her co defendant, 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.680 Ken Smith, and I've heard that they thought he may 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:25.520 have gotten away with something else, another crime. He hadn't 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.720 really been in trouble before, and so I think it 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.440 just seemed like all of a sudden, they thought he's 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.600 right here behind the Burrito Express, must have done this. 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.880 It was later discovered that mister Pardo had viewed a 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:42.120 photo array that contained photos of Jennifer's co defendants, but 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:47.439 did not identify them. It's believed that he was deported 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.719 and Jennifer and her friends remained the focus of the investigation. 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:56.440 The police theory was that Jennifer and perhaps David Collette, 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:01.079 drove Ken Smith and Justin Hoftling to the Burrito Express 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.480 before the crime, and may or may not have known 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.760 what the assailants had planned, and they brought Jennifer in 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.160 on May eleventh, two thousand and one to take a polygraph. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:11.760 I went in willingly. 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:16.640 It was to mckenry County Detectives, a round the beach 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.920 police officer who was actually a friend of the family 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.600 and family yes, and was accompanying me in the situation, 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.000 assuring my mother they just want to talk to her. 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.000 You know, you don't need a lawyer. Don't worry. 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.960 Her mother specifically asked if she needed to get her 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:37.439 a lawyer. Yes, you're told that if you have nothing 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:39.640 to hide, why would you need a lawyer, And that 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:44.480 is so incorrect. Make sure that you have representation as 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:46.400 you're trying to be helpful to the police. 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:48.640 But there was another factor at play here. 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:53.320 I was diagnosed with bipolar and manic depression, so I 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.000 was on medication. Before I went into the light detective test, 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.920 I was given a dose of one of my medications, 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.240 which was clanipin, So clanopin is a sleep aid. 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:08.040 After that or she had the light detector test, there 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.760 were only four questions asked. After that, they come out 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:15.840 and say a couple answers were highly suspicious, and so 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:19.960 then they start trying to what really happened? What really happened? 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.040 They didn't believe her. They didn't believe her. 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.080 By two thousand and one, polygraphs were no longer admissible 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.520 in court. And when law enforcement tells the subject that 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.800 they failed or their answers were suspicious, this serves to 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.520 arm interrogators with a pseudo scientific reason why their subjects 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.560 denials just cannot be believed. 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.960 We get back to mckenry County Police Department. They take 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.079 me into almost like a boardroom with long tables, big 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:47.360 screen TV. They pop in a VHS and it was 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.720 footage of the smoke shop, which was called Cloud nine. 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.240 And the footage did show. 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.360 One of my co defendants in their shopping around, which 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.760 did happen that night We did go to the smoke shop. 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.840 So they asked me to identify who was on the tape. 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:02.360 I did so. 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:06.599 It was David Collette on video at seven thirty eight pm. Importantly, 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.520 they were all still together at Jennifer's ordeal continued. 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.480 Another detective comes in that that I hadn't met that 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:17.920 day yet, So it becomes three detectives in myself in. 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:23.400 The room, multiple mail, law enforcement officers, no parent, no attorney, nothing, and. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:27.680 He basically just started saying, this is what we want 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.600 you to say, tell us what we want to hear, 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:31.400 and you can go home. We know you didn't have 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.600 anything to do with it. Just give us this name 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:35.920 and all this can be done and over with. And 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.679 as I keep saying, we didn't commit this crime, I 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:40.560 don't know you know what you want me to say. 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.400 I don't know what you're talking about, Like this isn't right, 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:45.480 you know. Sorry. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.480 At any time, you know, an attorney could have said 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.720 this is not going to go on anymore. She kept 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:54.240 asking to go home and thought she was going to 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:57.280 go home, and they kept saying, oh, we will take 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.880 you home, you know, until it gets longer and longer again. 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.160 Social science study shows people's defenses start to break down 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:04.400 after about an hour and a half. 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.440 This went on for over fourteen hours, as they kept drilling, 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.760 starting and stopping recording. Just tell us what we want 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:17.280 to hear and you can go. I just remember being 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:22.760 in a daze from the medication, not understanding, just wanting 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:23.600 it to be over with. 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.640 Oftentimes people they'll say anything just to get out of 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.120 the situation, thinking well, we'll get out of the situation, 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.480 and then they'll find out the evidence and it'll show 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:34.480 that I didn't do it. You know, they'll go get 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.520 the actual perpetrators, right. 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:38.000 So eventually. 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.439 One of them sat with like a yellow legal pad 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.600 and he would write down descriptions of things that happened 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.760 in the crime. Even drew a picture of like the 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.200 gun that was used and kind of like a description 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.040 of it. And he said, if there's anything at you 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.320 mess up on, you can glance over here at this 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.080 legal tablet. And every time I didn't get something great, 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:05.000 you would shut off the camera recording and just start screaming. 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:10.800 And then I just couldn't take any more and told 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.040 them what they wanted to hear, just that we can 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.440 be over with. I just wanted to go home. 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.960 You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.720 and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.160 and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:46.520 on Apple Podcasts. In a videotape statement that ended around 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.800 ten ten pm, Jennifer said that she saw police activity 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.800 in the area, then lent her card to her three friends. 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.720 Then they returned and admitted to the shooting. But why 0:14:55.760 --> 0:15:00.280 would there be police activity before the alleged assailants even 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:04.480 left to commit the crime that makes absolutely no sense. 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.520 There are two different videotape interrogations. In the first one, 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.960 she starts breaking down and giving them information, but again 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.920 highly unreliable. They take a break and while they said 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.640 they did not give her medication until after the second interrogation, 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.680 the video stops recording, but on the audio you hear 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.920 a man say, do you want coffee with your medication? 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.840 And then the false confession from that first videotape wasn't 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.880 really accurate, So then they do another videotape and they 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.520 get the confession that ends up being used at her trial, 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.800 which is more accurate. But again none of the withheld 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.320 facts from the crime. Did she know, did her code 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.000 defendants know? Had no idea. 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.760 Often police will withhold information from the public in order 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:54.400 to better assess the credibility of witnesses. In this case, 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.240 there were two details well, that mister Persseno had a 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.360 head injury that was consistent with being histol whipped, and 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.480 two that mister Persseno had yelled to a passing car 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.000 to call nine one one. Jennifer mentioned neither. Instead, she 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.440 placed herself in the car, alleging that all three of 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.400 her co defendants had participated, and that only one wore 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:18.040 a mask, directly contradicting the known facts of the crime. 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.120 I remember falling asleep in the corner of the interrogation room. 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.320 I remember a blanket being thrown on me. The next morning, 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:28.560 I woke up in a holding cell. I woke up 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:31.840 to a detective throwing a bag of McDonald's breakfast at 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.840 me and saying, you need to get up. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:35.640 We're charging you with first degree murder. 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:36.280 Wow. 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.480 They shackled me, put me in a squad car, and 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.040 took me to mckenry County Jail. 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.600 The following day, they arrested fifteen year old Justin Hoftling, 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.960 who informed the police that he was on hallucinogenic drugs, 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:57.720 but they interrogated him anyway. The buck I'm sorry. He 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.360 maintained his innocence, but changed his story when he was 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.040 told a lie that all three of his friends, not 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.239 just Jennifer, had made incriminating statements and that if he 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.040 did too, he could make a deal. He said that 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.120 Jennifer drove him and Smith to the Burrito Express and 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.000 they committed the robbery homicide. 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:20.560 Her co defendant, who was fifteen, gave a very unreliable 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.320 confession didn't have any of the facts correct. When they 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.120 gave him choices of the gun, he chose an automatic, 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:27.000 not a twenty deal. 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:28.280 Yes. 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.359 Yeah, he was under the influence of drugs too during 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:32.560 his false confession. 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:37.280 Justin Hoftling was facing potentially sixty seven years in prison, 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.800 and so he accepted a twenty year sentence. David Colette 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.560 accepted five years to testify that Jennifer drove all three 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.320 of them to the Burrito Express where he split from 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.760 Ken and Justin and did not participate. But before anyone 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.640 appeared in court, the mother of an alternate suspect came 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.399 forward and pointed the finger at her own daughter. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.960 Was never disclosed to Jennifer's trial council was there was 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:08.440 an alternate suspect group that had repeatedly confessed to family 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:12.000 and friends of committing this crime. In November of two 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.400 thousand and one, the mom called in to the police 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.359 and she says, my daughter told me you have the 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.040 wrong people. That her daughter was driving in the car 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.159 and saw her friends run into the Brito Express and 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.159 then saw them run out, and the owner yelled at 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:29.880 her to call the police. 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:30.520 Wow. 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:35.080 She also said that her daughter saw the person that 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.840 was doing the shooting come back and hit mister Bresento 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.879 in the head with the butt of the gun to 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.840 knock him over to let go of his friend. That's 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:49.520 two pieces of information about the crime that they withheld 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.200 from the public to corroborate confessions. 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.159 The daughter's name is Suzanne de Chico and her friend's 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.439 names are Russell Levon and Adam Hyland. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.920 The alternate suspect was at her mom and stepdad's home, 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.760 which was also close to the Brito Express And because 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.520 it was a bloody struggle, the alternate suspect got cut 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:10.879 up on his shins from the ice, but also his 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.080 hand got a cut from the knife, and they end 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.719 up burning their clothes because there's so much blood. And 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.520 eight weeks to ten weeks later they took her card 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.800 over the board in Wisconsin and torched the car because 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.000 they couldn't get the blood out from the back seat 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.640 of the car. Jennifer's car. In twenty twenty still, when 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.120 we were going in for DNA testing, it was still 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.800 impounded by the police. They had it in their custody, 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.159 you know. Nineteen years later they never found anything in 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.320 the car because it wasn't nothing was in there right. 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.000 So you have this mother calling in. She identifies the 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.160 two friends of her daughter's and her daughter her daughter 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:47.600 has confessed to other. 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.520 People, and the police didn't just ignore this tip. 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.960 When this mother called in, she also said they stole 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.879 my husband's gun. Then they tested that gun and found 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.840 that the bullet that was taken from mister Zunno's body 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.680 matched five of the six grooves, but they couldn't say 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.480 it definitively matched, but it had a crack in the handle, 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:11.320 which her daughter talked about him hitting mister Bresento in 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:13.800 the forehead with the butt of the gun to get 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:15.240 him to let go of his front. 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.359 When it comes to ballistics testing, guns can only be 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:23.280 definitively ruled out not matched, to the exclusion of all 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.840 of the guns on the planet. But with the cracked 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:30.320 handle and matching mother daughter confessions, it appears that this 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:35.760 crime basically solved itself. Even still, police and prosecutors hid 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.119 this information from the defense and put Justin Hoffling and 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.800 David Collette on the stand of Jennifer's trial in March 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:45.280 two thousand and two. But theirs and Jennifer's stories were 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:49.399 inconsistent with each other, as well as inconsistent with reality, 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:51.320 which naturally raised doubts. 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.600 So it was last day of the trial, the jury 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.959 was arguing they couldn't come to a decision. The judge 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:03.800 I had Arnold stated to the jury that they had 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:05.840 to hurry up and come up with the decision, and 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.040 the jury was brought in and I was found guilty. 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.800 You see on the sentencing documents stating that she did 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.639 not participate in the planning or carrying out of this, 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.000 that she wasn't a threat to society, that she'd never 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:22.280 been in trouble with the law, but because she drove them, 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:26.600 he sentenced her harshly to twenty seven years in prison. 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.000 And the crazy irony is that the people that she 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:30.800 drove also had nothing to do with it. 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.840 Yes, exactly, although of course law enforcement said her friends 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:36.080 committed this crime. 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.479 Even if that were true, that would mean that if 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:43.919 you at home speaking to everybody who's listening for me, 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:45.840 or you were just sitting in our car and a 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:47.800 couple of friends come up and go, hey, can I 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:50.560 get a ride down the block, and you give them 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:53.880 a ride, not knowing that they may have done anything, 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.480 you can now be convicted a sense to twenty seven 0:21:57.600 --> 0:21:58.760 years in prison. 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:02.520 Twenty seven years, straight through, no good days, no credit 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.639