Speaker 1: Episode three sixty two, The Multiple Forms of Capital to
Speaker 1: Earn and Build Wealth with Laura ol Dainey. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money,
Speaker 1: embrace simplicity, vice and liver a your life. Here your
Speaker 1: hosts Jen and Jill. Welcome to Frugal Friends podcast. My
Speaker 1: name is Jen, my name is Jill, and today we
Speaker 1: are playing you one of our favorite interviews we've ever done,
Speaker 1: but we have never shared it on the podcast before.
Speaker 1: This was from our Future of Frugal summit in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, and if you were with us two years
Speaker 1: ago then hopefully you got a chance to hear it.
Speaker 1: But even if you have, it's still a great one
Speaker 1: to re listen to.
Speaker 2: It still holds up and it can take I used
Speaker 2: to live in my mind as one of our best interviews,
Speaker 2: even though again we didn't do it for the podcast.
Speaker 2: We did it for the summit. But now we want
Speaker 2: to share it with you because super unique perspective, super
Speaker 2: helpful information from Laura old day.
Speaker 1: So yeah, really truly guided. It has truly guided a
Speaker 1: lot of our thoughts moving forward, like since this interview
Speaker 1: last two and a half years, So you're going to
Speaker 1: hear a lot. A lot of the inspiration that we've
Speaker 1: used kind of stemmed from our interview with Laura. But first,
Speaker 1: this episode is brought to you by Christmas cards. If
Speaker 1: you haven't sent them out by now, do not do it.
Speaker 1: Do not feel pressure to do it. Give up girlfriend,
Speaker 1: post a pick on instacelap a happy Holidays graphic on
Speaker 1: it in Canva, say the paper, save the money, give
Speaker 1: yourself some grace. Grandma will survive. Now take a deep
Speaker 1: breath in. You know that was a lot. Breathe out.
Speaker 1: Feel that weight lifted from your shoulders. Do you like
Speaker 1: that feeling? That's the feeling we're giving out three times
Speaker 1: a week in the front letter. We have got it
Speaker 1: three times a week. If you want to feel it,
Speaker 1: then head to frugalfriendspodcast dot com sign up for the
Speaker 1: Friend Letter because we're giving more permission and more money
Speaker 1: saving tips all the time.
Speaker 2: Wow, you really just walked us through a mindfulness exercise, right,
Speaker 2: really short and sweet but beautiful. Well done, And that
Speaker 2: is what we're doing with the Friend Letter, getting.
Speaker 1: Rid of all the Christmas cards, though I'm still I'm
Speaker 1: planning to do Christmas cards because we are recording this
Speaker 1: like a month out, so we'll see. We'll see if
Speaker 1: I listen to this. If I haven't sent them by
Speaker 1: the time this airs, I'm just not going to but.
Speaker 2: Not gonna lie about. It's one of my unpopular opinions.
Speaker 2: I think it's a waste of money and time because
Speaker 2: someone will send me a Christmas card in the mail
Speaker 2: that they pay what is it fifty six cents to
Speaker 2: send to me, and the very same pictures posted on Instagram? Yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah and Facebook? Why why are we mailing these right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And that's just the cost of postage, much less what
Speaker 2: you paid the photographer. How much you paid to print
Speaker 2: it out?
Speaker 1: Well, we call a photographer. We just go over to
Speaker 1: your house and have you take it with our phone.
Speaker 1: Joe's literally what we do. So yeah, and we just
Speaker 1: send them to Grant.
Speaker 2: Oh you'll get the invoice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we understand Grandma will survive if we don't
Speaker 1: send her a Christmas card. But they're also good once
Speaker 1: you have kids. They're like good scrap book kind of items.
Speaker 1: I don't have a scrap book, but if I did,
Speaker 1: that's what I would want to be in my scrap book.
Speaker 1: So instead of the scrap book, I just have the cards. Wow,
Speaker 1: so there you go. Okay, all right, anyways, let's talk
Speaker 1: about sustainability. Well, so we talked about the eight forms
Speaker 1: of capital with Laura back in twenty twenty one, and
Speaker 1: the eight forms of it's not just natural capital. So
Speaker 1: we talk a lot about being a good steward of
Speaker 1: your resources. That's what your frugality is, being a good
Speaker 1: steward of your money, your time, natural resources, physical space.
Speaker 1: And that lines up very similarly with Laura. That's kind
Speaker 1: of why we invited her on and she talks about
Speaker 1: in permaculture there it is this closed loop system, closed
Speaker 1: loop way of life. Whereas a lot of things in
Speaker 1: our lives have a start and end up in a dump.
Speaker 1: So in permaculture they have these eight forms of capital.
Speaker 1: And it was just like this mind blowing concept of
Speaker 1: So we need money to buy things, so it makes
Speaker 1: sense we talk a lot about earning money to buy
Speaker 1: those things, but what if we as often as possible,
Speaker 1: we're able to get creative and bypass the money and
Speaker 1: earning more and go directly to the things we really want,
Speaker 1: the things money can't buy. We use the resources we
Speaker 1: have that are not monetary to acquire other resources that
Speaker 1: are also not monetary, so that I hope that blew
Speaker 1: your mind, because that's really what this interview is about.
Speaker 1: And Laura is a permaculture expert. She's an expert on
Speaker 1: using these forms of capital to build wealth, build resiliency,
Speaker 1: and we're so excited to share this. And if you
Speaker 1: want to queue up a few other good ones to
Speaker 1: listen to after this, we loved our recent episode three
Speaker 1: twenty three with Brad Barrett of Choose FI what financial
Speaker 1: independence looks like today. Laura started in the financial independence
Speaker 1: community and has been really invested in that community, trying
Speaker 1: to usher people towards more sustainable forms of building wealth.
Speaker 1: And then another interview we did from the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: one summit was with Rich Jones, episode three oh five.
Speaker 1: We put that, you know, we loved that one also
Speaker 1: so much that we put it in episode three oh
Speaker 1: five Intentional Strategies to Increase your income, And this one
Speaker 1: really emphasizes social capital, which is one of those forms
Speaker 1: of capital, so using your connections and.
Speaker 3: All that.
Speaker 1: So episode three twenty three, Episode three oh five, But
Speaker 1: first let's get into this one. Laura, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for coming. We're so excited to have you here.
Speaker 3: I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and you are actually another Saint Pete resident.
Speaker 1: So we're all in the same city right now, in
Speaker 1: different vices recording this technology.
Speaker 3: Lucky us.
Speaker 1: It's great. So please tell everyone watching this because I am.
Speaker 1: I have been so excited for this, and I hope
Speaker 1: that a lot of people will watch this this session
Speaker 1: for the summit, like, tell us about your mission and
Speaker 1: why you're passionate about it.
Speaker 3: So I help people achieve financial resilience in ways that
Speaker 3: help address our major social and environmental problems instead of
Speaker 3: causing them. And there's so much out in the conventional
Speaker 3: wisdom and personal finance space that keeps us focused on
Speaker 3: working and investing in harmful and destructive industries. And it
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be that way though there are alternatives.
Speaker 3: They're far lesser known, but they exist, and so I
Speaker 3: just I'm out there trying to open people's minds to
Speaker 3: the possibilities beyond what you know mainstream media and investing
Speaker 3: and wealth conversations are feeding them. And I'm passionate about
Speaker 3: this because I am concerned about you know, people and
Speaker 3: planet and the environmental and social challenges I think we face,
Speaker 3: and so this is a way of building wealth that
Speaker 3: helps us be more resilient in the face of those
Speaker 3: challenges as well as addressing them. And I really believe
Speaker 3: that this, you know, what I'm helping people to do.
Speaker 3: What I'm talking about, what I offer people is it
Speaker 3: connects people with a much more. It's it's a path
Speaker 3: to a higher quality of life and well being as well,
Speaker 3: you know, in tandem with that pursuit of wealth, it
Speaker 3: looks to our own resourcefulness and creativity and gives us
Speaker 3: the opportunity to tap into that and you know, move
Speaker 3: from consumer to producer and that fulfillment and satisfaction of that. Well.
Speaker 2: I am so thrilled with the things that you're saying,
Speaker 2: and it's such an important space to be in, and
Speaker 2: unfortunately not a message that we hear often. Like the
Speaker 2: words that are coming out of your mouth sound like
Speaker 2: fresh water, and I don't encounter fresh water very often.
Speaker 2: I think there's also an element for me. I know,
Speaker 2: Jen said before we start recording that I'm a little
Speaker 2: bit disconnected from this space of personal finance experts. I
Speaker 2: obviously have money, and I want to do well with
Speaker 2: my money, but yeah, I'm not in it all the time,
Speaker 2: and so because of that, I don't know what I
Speaker 2: don't know, And I think in some ways I can
Speaker 2: represent the general the general public. I mean maybe maybe
Speaker 2: not everybody, but knowing that or assuming there's one way
Speaker 2: towards wealth, maybe a collection of ways, but here's your
Speaker 2: general path. And I think for you to describe listen,
Speaker 2: where we put our money matters, but just moving beyond
Speaker 2: what we do in our daily lives, like I recycle,
Speaker 2: and now you're saying, no, there's actually there's there's more
Speaker 2: macro level things that we can be looking at that
Speaker 2: are sustainable but also benefit us. So anyhow, that's my
Speaker 2: monologue to say, I'm really excited about what you're saying.
Speaker 4: Thanks for the water, You're very welcome, my pleasure, and
Speaker 4: actually I do get that a good bit what you said,
Speaker 4: Jill about I don't know what I don't know, and
Speaker 4: that's what I you know, That's why I'm so in
Speaker 4: part why I'm so passionate about this because people don't
Speaker 4: realize these other possibilities even exist.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you talk about different forms of capital, Can
Speaker 2: you tell us about that? What does that mean? What
Speaker 2: are you seeing?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 3: I know, back it up a little bit and explain
Speaker 3: that I was introduced to this concept of multiple forms
Speaker 3: of capital through permaculture and permaculture I describe it as
Speaker 3: a design science that looks to nature and its closed loop,
Speaker 3: abundance based no waste model, you know system as the model.
Speaker 3: And so through my diving into permaculture and its teachings,
Speaker 3: I was exposed to what in the permaculture space is
Speaker 3: referred to as the eight forms of capital. And so
Speaker 3: that's just the way it's discussed in permaculture. But this
Speaker 3: concept exists beyond that. In fact, there is a community
Speaker 3: capital's framework that has been put together. So communities, you know,
Speaker 3: when they don't have a lot of financial resources, often
Speaker 3: rural communities, they will look to these non monetary forms
Speaker 3: of capital to recognize the wealth and resources that already
Speaker 3: exist in their midst they're just not in the form
Speaker 3: of dollar signs. And so I'll talk through each of
Speaker 3: the eight forms of capital very briefly just to give
Speaker 3: people an overview of what they are. And the first
Speaker 3: one is the one we all know and deal with most,
Speaker 3: and that's financial capital. Our money are you know, national currencies, stocks,
Speaker 3: and bonds. That's all in the financial currency space. Then
Speaker 3: we have material capital. So these are the more tangible
Speaker 3: things like the laptops we're using in our microphones that
Speaker 3: we're using to communicate with each other, our homes, our cars,
Speaker 3: any of the hammers or shovels that we're using, the rocks,
Speaker 3: these physical tools, these are material capital. Then we have
Speaker 3: intellectual capital. So that's the knowledge that's the books behind
Speaker 3: me that I read to gain. You know, the books
Speaker 3: are material, but the information, the knowledge I gain from
Speaker 3: them is intellectual capital. So if I read about how
Speaker 3: to fix a bicycle, for example, if I want to
Speaker 3: change my own tire or something like that, repair something
Speaker 3: on my bike, I read about it. Then I go
Speaker 3: out to my bike and actually physically do the work
Speaker 3: to replace the tire or repair it. That's experiential capital.
Speaker 3: I'm out there doing it. I'm gaining that experience. So
Speaker 3: experiential capital are those skills. And it's not just the
Speaker 3: physical skills though it's your podcasting skills. It's all the
Speaker 3: skills we learn when we learned how to do something new.
Speaker 3: This talent stack of skills that we have. So that's
Speaker 3: experiential capital, spiritual capital, So you know it could be
Speaker 3: your religious faith if you're religious. It could be your
Speaker 3: yoga practice if you practice yoga. It's just how you
Speaker 3: connect with the universe. Is your spiritual capital. Then we
Speaker 3: have living capital, so that's the water, the trees, the gardens,
Speaker 3: the fruit trees in our yards, the parks near us
Speaker 3: that we go out to when we go to national
Speaker 3: parks and we're out there taking in all of that
Speaker 3: beautiful nature. That's living capital. We also have cultural capital.
Speaker 3: Cultural capital is our shared capital of songs, movies, a
Speaker 3: common history. Food is a great example, ethnic foods, the
Speaker 3: foods that we share as different cultures. And then social
Speaker 3: capital and social capital is you know, we're building a
Speaker 3: little bit of social capital right now just having this
Speaker 3: conversation and building the connections with the people at the
Speaker 3: summit who who are you know, engage you know, watching
Speaker 3: us have this conversation. It's when you get a job
Speaker 3: because you have a connection to someone. It's when a
Speaker 3: hurricane comes through Saint Petersburg and you don't have your
Speaker 3: own generator but you've lost power, but your neighbor next
Speaker 3: door has a generator and lets you plug in your
Speaker 3: refrigerator or a fan or something. So that's that's social capital.
Speaker 3: And so those are the eight forms of capital, these
Speaker 3: non monetary forms of capital. And if we if we
Speaker 3: think about it, the financial capital which we all focus on,
Speaker 3: we focus on it because it's a means of exchange
Speaker 3: and it's our access point to the other forms of capital.
Speaker 3: It's not that we want dollar bills because we like
Speaker 3: to stack them up and like, you know, make a
Speaker 3: statue out of them because they're so beautiful, or there's
Speaker 3: some other intrinsic money. Yes, and even there so you're yes,
Speaker 3: colorful currencies are certainly more engaging visually, but even then,
Speaker 3: primarily we want we want them because we're going to
Speaker 3: exchange them, and there are gateway and access point to
Speaker 3: these other forms of capital. And so in terms of
Speaker 3: your frugality and friends or is it frugal friends audience,
Speaker 3: you know, I really think if we get so focused
Speaker 3: and drawn into getting that financial capital in our lives
Speaker 3: and what are we going to do? How are we
Speaker 3: going to trade our time or set up our passive
Speaker 3: income streams to get it? But we can also focus
Speaker 3: more on how do we just go directly get these
Speaker 3: other forms of capital, these non monetary forms of capital,
Speaker 3: without needing to trade our life energy for money. And again,
Speaker 3: you know, as I mentioned before, and how do we
Speaker 3: move more into that producer versus consumer role and have
Speaker 3: that more fulfilling opportunity to solve our own problems. Money
Speaker 3: just robs us of the opportunity to use our creativity
Speaker 3: so often because we're so busy, so trapped in the system,
Speaker 3: that we can't think about how to get these other
Speaker 3: forms of capital without money. And for example, I I
Speaker 3: needed a new shower curtain rod and I really did
Speaker 3: not like the idea of going out to a store.
Speaker 3: And certainly saving money is a good thing, and that
Speaker 3: was part of it, But just one more shower curtain
Speaker 3: in the world. Does someone really, you know, need to
Speaker 3: buy another shower curtain and use those resources? There was
Speaker 3: so much an energy that went into producing it. Where
Speaker 3: is it going to go? You know, when I'm done
Speaker 3: with it, it's you know, it's just going to end
Speaker 3: up in a landfill or here in our county in
Speaker 3: an incinerator, polluting the air. So I could, you know,
Speaker 3: I was trying to find one at a thrift store
Speaker 3: and I just wasn't finding one. And finally I looked
Speaker 3: outside my window and I saw that I have this
Speaker 3: beautiful slender bamboo growing in my yard, and I thought, hot, damn,
Speaker 3: that is my shower hurt rod, And it is a
Speaker 3: beautiful piece of nature that I've brought into my bathroom
Speaker 3: that already happens to be green and brown colored anyways.
Speaker 3: And I just love the feel of this natural product,
Speaker 3: you know, that was completely free, that's completely renewable. Bamboo grows,
Speaker 3: you know, like anything. So it just because I did
Speaker 3: not go out and spend the money, I gave myself
Speaker 3: to have the opportunity to have that aha moment and
Speaker 3: get such a better product for myself in the end.
Speaker 1: I love that concept because we've always said that frugality,
Speaker 1: I mean, most of it is just getting creative. It's
Speaker 1: not being in can nvenienced. It's not being or you know,
Speaker 1: at the expense of others living like it's not negative.
Speaker 1: It's just forces you to get creative. And so the
Speaker 1: fact that you're like reiterating like money robs us of
Speaker 1: our natural ability to be creative. And it's such a
Speaker 1: wild like thought to meditate.
Speaker 2: On the social worker inside of me is like leaping
Speaker 2: at everything that you're describing. I honestly, I've not heard of,
Speaker 2: you know, the eight forms of capital, but before you,
Speaker 2: and yet it's it's not unfamiliar concepts either. And I
Speaker 2: think it just put it puts vocab to what I
Speaker 2: think a lot of us do experience. I mean, when
Speaker 2: there was a time when my husband and I made
Speaker 2: very little money, I mean by American standards, we were
Speaker 2: below the poverty line, and yet I felt wealthy. I
Speaker 2: didn't think like, where's my next meal coming from? I mean,
Speaker 2: thank goodness, I was very blessed in that situation. And
Speaker 2: I would say, like, we have family and friends who
Speaker 2: are supporting us, like I still do have a form
Speaker 2: of transportation. And I think you're putting words to why
Speaker 2: I felt that way. And I think even beyond that,
Speaker 2: not not just looking back, but also looking forward for
Speaker 2: what are our standards for whether or not where we
Speaker 2: are wealthy or happy or content. There's so much more
Speaker 2: to look at, and I think you've just broadened the
Speaker 2: horizon on that. And so thank you for that terminology
Speaker 2: and vocabulary that we can be focusing on. And as
Speaker 2: Jen said, meditating on, I'm excited about it.
Speaker 1: So how I.
Speaker 3: Would love to shift how we define a rich for
Speaker 3: wealthy life.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, like, so earning more and investing
Speaker 1: in these like forms of capital, Like how what are
Speaker 1: what are the ways that we can like invest and
Speaker 1: earn like outside of the financial capital like because this
Speaker 1: is definitely a more environmentally and socially conscious way to
Speaker 1: earn and invest. So like where do we go about starting?
Speaker 3: Well? Okay, so certainly I think just looking more closely
Speaker 3: at the multiple forms of capital, you know, and thinking about,
Speaker 3: like I said, how do you access them without money?
Speaker 3: Not I want to be cautious because I want us
Speaker 3: to wisely steward these forms of capital. We don't want
Speaker 3: to over harvest them or abuse them, you know, and
Speaker 3: deplete them like we've done in our other in our
Speaker 3: traditional economy. But I do think that, you know, they
Speaker 3: offer an opportunity for us to think about, you know,
Speaker 3: what else in our life could provide value for us
Speaker 3: in the forum of financial capital if we needed to
Speaker 3: exchange it, you know, so just even you know, being
Speaker 3: able to grow your own food or forage food, for example.
Speaker 3: I love here where we live. You know, we're coming
Speaker 3: upon a time soon where mangoes are going to be
Speaker 3: dropping in the alleys, going to waste. Avocados are going
Speaker 3: to be so abundant. And you know, in years past,
Speaker 3: I've gone around on my bike and just harvest the
Speaker 3: foraged them, and then I've taken them to our local
Speaker 3: kenwood organics and exchange them for other produce and chicken eggs,
Speaker 3: you know that I didn't have myself. So there's an
Speaker 3: opportunity to use those forms of capital without you know,
Speaker 3: even bringing in the financial capital to exchange them. But
Speaker 3: you could also sell them, you know, or make money
Speaker 3: from your skills, from your intellect, from your singing, you know,
Speaker 3: from cultural capital. So it's just how do you tap
Speaker 3: them wisely, these forms of capital. So that's an answer
Speaker 3: to your question that looks directly at those forms of
Speaker 3: capital in terms of you know, stepping away from that
Speaker 3: and thinking more about, Okay, we are in this monetary
Speaker 3: economy right now, and how do we navigate that in
Speaker 3: a more socially and environmentally conscious way. I think in
Speaker 3: terms of earning money, we can look to a Buddhist
Speaker 3: concept of right livelihood. And so this Buddhist concept of
Speaker 3: right livelihood is you know, finding ways to earn money
Speaker 3: that are honest and don't harm people or plant, you know,
Speaker 3: and we can think about that in our jobs, you know,
Speaker 3: what is the environmental and societal impact of the work
Speaker 3: we're doing, and how does that feel to us? You
Speaker 3: know here, you know, the three of us, we're working
Speaker 3: to you know, kind of in personal development, personal finance,
Speaker 3: helping people improve their lives. You know, little things I've done.
Speaker 3: You know, I had a backyard plant nursery at one time,
Speaker 3: and I have I do a good bit of dumpster
Speaker 3: diving because the waste in our country just really really
Speaker 3: upsets me. We do not have good solutions for waste.
Speaker 3: And so you know, one year, I've probably made three
Speaker 3: or four thousand dollars off of eBay and other sites
Speaker 3: selling what I was rescuing out of thrift store dumpsters,
Speaker 3: all the dumpsters, you know, university dumpsters at the end
Speaker 3: of the semester, because so much still perfectly usable and
Speaker 3: valuable stuff gets thrown away. So I you know, if
Speaker 3: people are concerned about waste, I think tapping the waste
Speaker 3: stream to redirect it, because I say that there's no
Speaker 3: such thing as waste, There are only misdirected resources and
Speaker 3: poorly designed systems. So you know, I strongly encourage anyone
Speaker 3: you know to interested in that, to think about them
Speaker 3: because I think there's a lot of potential. We don't
Speaker 3: have good good solutions for waste, and we produce far
Speaker 3: too much of it. So that's on the income side,
Speaker 3: is you know, thinking about right livelihood and just the
Speaker 3: environment in society in general, how can we have work
Speaker 3: that helps to address these challenges? And then in our investing.
Speaker 3: So there are so many really great things percolating out
Speaker 3: there that people don't know I and you there are
Speaker 3: ways to invest in these things in you know, going
Speaker 3: deeper into the personal finance lingo, you know, tax advantaged
Speaker 3: ways and retirement accounts and non tax advantaged ways, just directly.
Speaker 3: And so I always encourage people even first before they
Speaker 3: think about investing, is to start with banking. Where are
Speaker 3: you banking? Because when your money sleeps at a bank,
Speaker 3: it's supporting something. It's not sleeping at the bank. They
Speaker 3: have farmed it out, shipped out somewhere else. So are
Speaker 3: you comfortable with what your bank is supporting? And if
Speaker 3: you're with a major bank, you're more than likely supporting
Speaker 3: fossil fuels. So if you've divested from fossil fuels in
Speaker 3: your investing, but your bank money in the bank is
Speaker 3: still supporting it. That may be something that doesn't sit
Speaker 3: right with you. So there are way you know, socially
Speaker 3: responsible banks like Aspiration or Amalgamated Bank. There are also
Speaker 3: banks where we can put our money to work in
Speaker 3: under resourced communities, you know, communities that don't have the
Speaker 3: access to capital that more affluent communities do. So you know,
Speaker 3: there are community development financial institutions CDFIs. Many of them
Speaker 3: are banks, and like I said, they're low income communities.
Speaker 3: The Hope Credit Union in Mississippi is one that does
Speaker 3: a lot of good work. There's also the Native American Bank.
Speaker 3: You know, you can park your money even if you
Speaker 3: can't invest or make a philanthropic contribution, and you're concerned
Speaker 3: about indigenous populations, you can open savings or checking account
Speaker 3: or a CD with the Native American Bank and they're
Speaker 3: lending that money to indigenous populations for mortgages for small businesses.
Speaker 3: So even just starting with banking is a great way
Speaker 3: to do it. In investing, you know, an easy kind
Speaker 3: of gateway. One that I like to talk about and
Speaker 3: I think Jen you know about this is Worthy Worthy Bonds.
Speaker 3: You know, it's a five percent return on investment and
Speaker 3: that they're using the money to make loans to small businesses,
Speaker 3: so at least it moves your money off of Wall
Speaker 3: Street and closer to Main Street. You know. That's a
Speaker 3: good one. I have really come to appreciate Steward. I
Speaker 3: think the website is gosteward dot com. They're making loans
Speaker 3: to regenerative farmers, small regenerative farmers, you know, and I
Speaker 3: think their loans are returning five to eight percent. That's
Speaker 3: not too bad. And it's helping, you know, regenerate farmers
Speaker 3: who need money that and they're even you know, this
Speaker 3: is generally beyond organic. They're really working to regenerate the soils,
Speaker 3: you know, and restore the biodiversity on their farms that
Speaker 3: we're we're losing. So that's just to say that these
Speaker 3: opportunities are out there. There are people like like we said,
Speaker 3: they just don't know what they don't know, and there's
Speaker 3: there's information on my website where people can find more
Speaker 3: out more. But I'll also say quickly for those that
Speaker 3: are interested in doing this in a tax advantaged way,
Speaker 3: what's really helped me is that I learned about self
Speaker 3: directed retirement account and so these are accounts that allow
Speaker 3: for a much wider range of investing than traditional retirement accounts,
Speaker 3: which limit us to the offerings of Wall Street. Primarily
Speaker 3: mostly people who are using these self directed accounts are
Speaker 3: in real estate, but it's not limited to real estate.
Speaker 3: You know, both of the investments I just described the
Speaker 3: worthy and steward I've made through my self directed IRA,
Speaker 3: and I've made a number of others all the others
Speaker 3: I've mentioned on my website. So there are the more
Speaker 3: traditional the iras, but there are also solo for one case,
Speaker 3: for people who own their own businesses. So I think
Speaker 3: only four percent of the retirement accounts out there are
Speaker 3: these self directed kind. So there's potential, huge potential for
Speaker 3: an explosion for people to move their money out of
Speaker 3: these harmful, destructive, extractive market industries in the marketplace and
Speaker 3: direct it towards what they really want to see in
Speaker 3: the world, to invest in the future they want to create.
Speaker 3: And one quick resource I'll share for anyone who's listening
Speaker 3: that's interested, there's a wonderful group online called the Next Egg.
Speaker 3: So it's a play on nest Egg, the Next Egg,
Speaker 3: and it's an online forum for people who are pursuing
Speaker 3: this self directed retirement investing and looking for these types
Speaker 3: of investing investments outside of you know that are more
Speaker 3: towards sustainability and sustainable solutions. So it's it's, you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's new territory that we're charting here stepping out
Speaker 3: of this. So it's great to have this group to
Speaker 3: walk that path together.
Speaker 2: Beautiful Laura, thanks for giving all of those resources and
Speaker 2: tips and even talking about banking. I think until I
Speaker 2: met Jen and was talking with her about this, it
Speaker 2: wasn't even a thought on my radar. I mean, I
Speaker 2: guess if you sat me down and had me think
Speaker 2: about it a little more, like, let me think your
Speaker 2: bank's doing with that money like I do, It's just
Speaker 2: I didn't. It was never something I sat down and
Speaker 2: thought about. So I'm so thrilled to be having this conversation,
Speaker 2: and I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on some
Speaker 2: of these lesser talked about aspects of what you're presenting.
Speaker 2: As we're talking about wealth and you discuss community sufficiency
Speaker 2: and interconnectedness as a form of wealth, and you've already
Speaker 2: mentioned some of that, like borrowing your neighbors generator, but
Speaker 2: I'm curious to hear more from you on this topic,
Speaker 2: because again I don't think we talk about it a lot,
Speaker 2: especially as a form of wealth and how we can
Speaker 2: tap into that.
Speaker 3: Sure, so, yes, the community sufficiency, the interconnectedness, the even
Speaker 3: financial interdependence as opposed to financial independence. And I will
Speaker 3: give Vicky Robbin credit for introducing me to that concept.
Speaker 3: That's something she talks about in Your Money or Your Life.
Speaker 3: But this is all a nder the umbrella of social capital.
Speaker 3: And you know, to the extent that people are out
Speaker 3: there talking about multiple forms of capital, you know, and
Speaker 3: their importance, I think many of us would agree that
Speaker 3: social capital, of all of them, is probably the most important.
Speaker 3: It's where the resilience is, you know, it's it's what's
Speaker 3: going to get us through when we're really in need.
Speaker 3: And so it is a form of wealth, and you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's as little as you know, what we talked
Speaker 3: about before, under the realm of social capital. But there's
Speaker 3: also you know, you can really work to cultivate it.
Speaker 3: So I have a dear friend, Jenny Nazak, who wrote
Speaker 3: a book called Deep Green, all about low footprint living,
Speaker 3: and so she it has done a wonderful job of
Speaker 3: creating you know, working on the front of her yard
Speaker 3: towards the sidewalk to put in a bench so people
Speaker 3: can stop and rest and gather and chat. You know,
Speaker 3: you could put in a little free library. I just
Speaker 3: met a neighbor down the road a couple of days ago,
Speaker 3: within forty eight hours of her putting up a little
Speaker 3: free library, because I knew any neighbor in my community
Speaker 3: that had one with someone I wanted to meet. You know,
Speaker 3: you could put if you're into plants, put out a
Speaker 3: little box and for free plants. You know, there are
Speaker 3: so many ways just making an effort to get to
Speaker 3: know your neighbors and build that connection. And it doesn't
Speaker 3: have to just be neighbors. We've had conversations some of
Speaker 3: my friends in Saint Petersburg. You know we instead of
Speaker 3: all of us selling our homes and living together in
Speaker 3: an intentional community house, how do we build that intentional
Speaker 3: community among ourselves, you know, so that we know that
Speaker 3: when we need something, these are the people we can tap.
Speaker 3: This is our community sufficiency. And for the three of
Speaker 3: us in Saint Pete, we're so fortunate that we have
Speaker 3: the time bank we have. So time bank is a
Speaker 3: is a bank where the unit of exchange is time,
Speaker 3: and everyone's time is valued equally, and so it can
Speaker 3: be you know, anything from you know, helping someone weave
Speaker 3: their yard to I used our time bank to have
Speaker 3: someone come take pictures of me for my social media,
Speaker 3: you know, so I didn't have to hire a photographer.
Speaker 3: It's it's just limited to our imagination the exchanges we
Speaker 3: can come up with and the again, the currency is time.
Speaker 3: But that's the whole point of the Time bank is
Speaker 3: to foster that community sufficiency, that financial interdependence, that interconnectedness.
Speaker 3: And so not every community has a time bank, but
Speaker 3: they buy nothing projects they can join their buy nothing group.
Speaker 3: That I don't think it's always the reality, but I
Speaker 3: know based on what I've read from the women who's
Speaker 3: founded that that was part of their goal was to
Speaker 3: foster that community interaction and build more community.
Speaker 2: I love what you're describing because I think it also
Speaker 2: hits on what Jen and I have noticed with this
Speaker 2: podcast and the community that has been created around this,
Speaker 2: that it is far more important and rich than anything
Speaker 2: Jen and I could just do together then, or just
Speaker 2: a podcast, Like it's a community that has been created
Speaker 2: that we are just seeing is so helpful on so
Speaker 2: many levels. So yeah, I agree with you, Laura, and
Speaker 2: what can come out of this interconnectedness and looking at
Speaker 2: our community both giving and receiving that reciprocity that can
Speaker 2: exist in relationship there is beautiful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I agree you do have to take some
Speaker 1: step to show that you are willing to be like connected.
Speaker 1: I know it's a lot easier to sit inside after
Speaker 1: work or sit like secluded in your backport, but like
Speaker 1: we since having our son and now will either sometimes
Speaker 1: go on the front of our house and we see
Speaker 1: a lot more people walking their dogs and neighbors walking
Speaker 1: like from their cars, you know, into their homes after work,
Speaker 1: and like we see a lot more because we are
Speaker 1: putting ourselves out there to connect with our neighbors. And
Speaker 1: so like I've always been the introvert that stays at
Speaker 1: home inside, doesn't talk to people, and my husband is
Speaker 1: makes connections and new friends wherever he goes, and it's
Speaker 1: just been it's been delightful for me to get to
Speaker 1: benefit from that, to like have neighbors for the first
Speaker 1: time in my life where we'll go across, you know,
Speaker 1: across the alley to their backyard and have a beer,
Speaker 1: like after work. It's so beautiful, but it does take
Speaker 1: a little bit of effort. It's so worth it though,
Speaker 1: so so we are asking this question to all of
Speaker 1: our speakers, Laura, in different forms, but we would really
Speaker 1: like to know what do you hope the future of
Speaker 1: earning and or investing like looks like for the future
Speaker 1: for us.
Speaker 3: Well, and I think I've pretty much touched on it.
Speaker 3: I hope it's a shift more towards this right livelihood,
Speaker 3: you know, so that people can feel good about what
Speaker 3: their the work they're doing and feel like they're contributing
Speaker 3: to solutions and helping people and helping to solve our
Speaker 3: environmental challenges and investing. You know, I would love to
Speaker 3: see money much more, if not money coming out of
Speaker 3: Wall Street, you know, and moving towards these investments that
Speaker 3: are again much more working towards our solving our social
Speaker 3: and environmental issues and giving people that satisfaction. It also
Speaker 3: engages you so much more in your investing journey, you know,
Speaker 3: as opposed to just tracking the spreadsheet and the charts
Speaker 3: and the dots on the graph. You know, it's like
Speaker 3: what's happening at that farm today, or what's that small business?
Speaker 4: How are they doing? You know?
Speaker 3: It's just it's such an richer experience of investing that's
Speaker 3: so awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets it outside of just being like how
Speaker 1: much can I earn and being like how much can
Speaker 1: I give back and still earn. I love that none
Speaker 1: of this involves like moving off the grid into like
Speaker 1: a place like I'm sorry, I've been watching a lot
Speaker 1: of cult shows, but like ut like those little communities
Speaker 1: and cults, but none of it involves that we are
Speaker 1: living in a city right now. We live in a
Speaker 1: very populated city, and you are and you are doing
Speaker 1: this like you're very much on grid and really making
Speaker 1: a difference. So I love that this Also that makes
Speaker 1: it more accessible to more people.
Speaker 2: Well, and I think it brings people along in the process. Right,
Speaker 2: Not everybody is to the point that you are, Laura
Speaker 2: in this journey, And I think in any journey we
Speaker 2: talk about, it takes people to help guide, to teach,
Speaker 2: to show, to respond to to give advice, and so
Speaker 2: I think remaining engaged in the community is what helps
Speaker 2: to build that and grow that and not just become
Speaker 2: a little pocket isolated doing this in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2: So so much of what you're saying, I'm hoping with you,
Speaker 2: and I'm excited about what you have your sights on.
Speaker 2: That being said, Laura, do you have a bill of
Speaker 2: the week for us?
Speaker 1: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 1: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 1: is Williams.
Speaker 4: Maybe you paid off your mortgage.
Speaker 1: Maybe your car died, and you're happy to not have
Speaker 1: to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton,
Speaker 1: this is the bill of the week.
Speaker 3: Yes, my bill of the week would be that we
Speaker 3: have been sold a bill of goods believing that we
Speaker 3: have to be part of this consumerist, harmful capitalist system,
Speaker 3: or at least our current version of capitalism, and I
Speaker 3: think that we can extract ourselves from it and live
Speaker 3: far richer lives. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's
Speaker 3: it's completely possible, and I just encourage people to think
Speaker 3: outside of the box and look beyond the pick sure
Speaker 3: that they're living in right now.
Speaker 2: That is such hiring Bill Firing to be more like
Speaker 2: I lowered my internet bill.
Speaker 1: Me over here the narrator of Anchorman. Okay every time. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much Laura for coming on and inspiring us,
Speaker 1: and I hope that somebody listening to this is motivated
Speaker 1: to either get their money out of their big bank
Speaker 1: or do something that just builds interconnectedness between them and
Speaker 1: the people around them. We especially need it now more
Speaker 1: than ever. So where can people go to find more
Speaker 1: from you?
Speaker 3: So? My website is rich and Resilientliving dot com. You
Speaker 3: can find lots of blog posts about these topics there.
Speaker 3: I'm also on Instagram at rich underscore Resilience.
Speaker 1: Thanks again, Laura.
Speaker 2: Laura's a national treasure. I think we all know that now.
Speaker 1: She is fantastic. I love that I get to see
Speaker 1: her occasionally around town because we both live in We
Speaker 1: all live in the same city, but Laura lives especially
Speaker 1: close to me, and her boyfriend does the garden Grandpa
Speaker 1: at the library, So once a month he will take
Speaker 1: fruits from his garden and teach kids about local like
Speaker 1: produce or flowers or whatever he's growing in his garden
Speaker 1: at that time in the season and teach kids about it.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just I love how they're getting creative
Speaker 1: right to build wealth and not totally. They're not living
Speaker 1: off the grid somewhere right, They're still in embedded in society,
Speaker 1: but they're just choosing an alternative path to building wealth,
Speaker 1: and it's great. She's got some great ideas for investing
Speaker 1: and yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2: Wow, the library man so much to do and discover there,
Speaker 2: that's amazing. Well, we hope that you enjoyed listening to
Speaker 2: this one as much as we enjoyed having the conversation.
Speaker 2: Rehaving the conversation. And something else that we love is
Speaker 2: reading all of your kind reviews. So many of you
Speaker 2: are out here choosing kindness in your review writing, and
Speaker 2: we thank you. We especially love this one that we
Speaker 2: want to share from Frugal Young Mama, who said, I
Speaker 2: love this podcast. It's so fun, funny and frugal. Love
Speaker 2: that literation. It's nice to have a lighthearted podcast asked
Speaker 2: about stuff that is so important, like finances. I feel
Speaker 2: like finances is something a lot of people don't like
Speaker 2: to talk about because it's serious. These girls find a
Speaker 2: way to make it fun and enjoyable to listen to.
Speaker 4: So great.
Speaker 2: So glad you love any.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you Frugal Young Mama. I'm a frugal almost
Speaker 1: young mama, so I feel like I resonate with you.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Not that young anymore, but we're trying.
Speaker 1: But I mean, if you resonate, please take a minute
Speaker 1: to leave a rating and review. It helps potential new
Speaker 1: listeners know that some of us are frugal mamas a
Speaker 1: varying in ages, and some of us are frugal women
Speaker 1: of varying ages. There's a variety, there's something for everyone.
Speaker 2: See you next time.
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni. So I think
Speaker 1: if this is a good time to put this out
Speaker 1: here into the ether, if you listen to this whole episode,
Speaker 1: if you're still with us, you might be a great
Speaker 1: candidate to write for us. We're hiring a writer for
Speaker 1: the friend Letter, yes, and we're not really putting it
Speaker 1: out there publicly except write here right now, because you're
Speaker 1: my target audience, you listening right here. Yes, she's not
Speaker 1: talking to me, just seeing me.
Speaker 2: I've been writing the friend Letter, and now she's looking
Speaker 2: to hire someone.
Speaker 3: Yes, Jill.
Speaker 1: Jill hasn't lived up. No, she's looked up too much
Speaker 1: of the hype. She's too good, and now we need
Speaker 1: somebody that she can mentor and and build up.
Speaker 2: It kind of feels like what happened to me when
Speaker 2: I worked at a bakery in my young twenties. They
Speaker 2: I did kind of the front of house everything, sometimes
Speaker 2: doing some baked stuff, and around the holidays they needed
Speaker 2: extra help decorating the cookies, and so I was like, sure,
Speaker 2: I'll get some extra hours and that sounds fun, just
Speaker 2: sitting in the back decorating cookies. And my boss came
Speaker 2: up to me about an hour later and was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're not going to do this anymore.
Speaker 1: Like, what am I doing wrong?
Speaker 2: He's like not, I mean, the cookies look beautiful, the
Speaker 2: cookies are stunning, but you're taking way too long to
Speaker 2: decorate these cookies, and your time is better spend elsewhere.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of what's happening with the friend.
Speaker 1: Letter is I'm doing a good job.
Speaker 2: I just apparently my time needs to go to social media.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not even that you're taking too long. It's
Speaker 1: just that here my time needs to go. Time is
Speaker 1: better spend elsewhere. Yeah. So, if you're looking to make
Speaker 1: extra money in twenty twenty four and want to want
Speaker 1: to hang out with us digitally for the long run,
Speaker 1: just you got you got to commit. You got to
Speaker 1: commit to us, not forever, not for the rest of
Speaker 1: your life, but you know, like you got to you
Speaker 1: got to be listening to the full episode and here
Speaker 1: at the the after show. Yeah, you got to be
Speaker 1: one about blood and that's you. Yeah. But no, if
Speaker 1: you if you can commit to writing about like if
Speaker 1: you've ever written a blog post about two thousand words,
Speaker 1: kind of writing that every week, we've got three front letters.
Speaker 1: They're about six to seven hundred words each. So if
Speaker 1: you can commit to that, if you have the time
Speaker 1: for that, you want to make some extra money, reach
Speaker 1: out Jen Atfrugal friendspodcast dot com. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2: It's a paid gig.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's paid. Yeah, I'll pay you for your commitment. Yeah. Yes,
Speaker 1: we don't skim poor frugal not cheap. Oh boom mm
Speaker 1: hmmm