Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio
Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome back to Katie's Crib. Everyone,
Speaker 1: I'm Katie Lows, and on this episode, we're talking about
Speaker 1: those other precious babies in our lives. Are furry babies,
Speaker 1: are dogs? Okay. Since I started this podcast, I have
Speaker 1: been absolutely dying to do an episode on both pets
Speaker 1: and kids. So with us today is the amazing Matt Weiser,
Speaker 1: who in my eyes is a dog whisper because of
Speaker 1: how he was able to help my super duper difficult
Speaker 1: dog dog Roger. If you guys know him, Roger Hamilton's
Speaker 1: Shapiro Lows. I instagram them all the time. He's a
Speaker 1: curmudgeon old part of a dog that I love. Matt,
Speaker 1: who you may know from his National geographic TV show
Speaker 1: called Dog Impossible, provides the best kind of training and
Speaker 1: helps people develop the deepest possible relationship with their dog.
Speaker 1: And he taught me so much and so many different
Speaker 1: kinds of approaches that I wanted to share with you
Speaker 1: guys on Katie's Crib. So thank you for being on. Matt,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad to be here, Katie. Thanks oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm this has been I have to tell you, Like
Speaker 1: I sent out tweets and and posts asking Katie's Crib
Speaker 1: listeners like what are topics you really want to cover?
Speaker 1: And across the board, people have always asked, how do
Speaker 1: I bring a baby home to my house when I
Speaker 1: have a dog, when I have a difficult dog, when
Speaker 1: I have an older dog. What happens if I want
Speaker 1: to get a dog and I have a kid. Our
Speaker 1: dog is good for allergies, what happened if the dog
Speaker 1: bites a kid? I mean, it's a very triggering topic.
Speaker 1: And you saved my dog life. I almost had to
Speaker 1: get rid of my dog so many times. And I'll
Speaker 1: explain that in a minute, but let's just start with
Speaker 1: a brief background on you and how you got into
Speaker 1: this field, and what inspired you to work with all dogs,
Speaker 1: but specifically aggressive dogs. To begin with, I was smiling
Speaker 1: when you asked that, because the story never it's old
Speaker 1: that I actually was afraid of dogs to about eleven
Speaker 1: eleven twelve years ago. Now I have an appropriate sense
Speaker 1: of fear, but I had interrational fear and I was
Speaker 1: bit when I was a kid on Halloween. Um, I
Speaker 1: was like eight years old, and my parents knew what
Speaker 1: what a lot of people still consider to be helpful information,
Speaker 1: which is if a dog's tail is wagging, that means
Speaker 1: you can pet the dog. So it was Halloween. I
Speaker 1: had a little pumpkin, you know, orange candy pumpkin bucket
Speaker 1: with me, and my parents had dressed me up like
Speaker 1: Richard Nixon, and so the mask and everything was the
Speaker 1: time set up, and I go to uh, So, I'm
Speaker 1: approaching the dog and dogs wagging its tail and I
Speaker 1: reached out and the dog punctures me in the arm
Speaker 1: and that was hit. That was like for the next
Speaker 1: thirty something years, I had that fear in the fear
Speaker 1: just progressed. And then I got older and I was
Speaker 1: ashamed of it, and you know, you're not supposed to
Speaker 1: be a grown man and be afraid of dogs and
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And and then I landed
Speaker 1: with somebody. About twelve years ago. I moved in with
Speaker 1: somebody was pretty sick at the time, and I've been
Speaker 1: open of people about the fact that I'm sober. So
Speaker 1: I was actually detoxing. And I moved in with her
Speaker 1: and she had an aggressive puppy who would attack me
Speaker 1: every time I moved around the house and that kind
Speaker 1: of out it started, and from there I ended up
Speaker 1: helping her dog and who's now my dog. We've since
Speaker 1: split with the dog and I are still together and
Speaker 1: helping her dog and her friend's dogs and friends of
Speaker 1: friends dogs. And I did a lot of stuff then
Speaker 1: that that I wouldn't recommend. Now. You know, I was
Speaker 1: a hack in a lot of ways, but what was
Speaker 1: fundamental is that I begin the relationship with the dog
Speaker 1: predicated on what the dog needed. And my understanding what
Speaker 1: the dog needed was limited, for sure, and my ability
Speaker 1: to help the dog was limited, for sure. But it
Speaker 1: planted a see that became a foundational principle of the
Speaker 1: Zen dog as it is today, which is what do
Speaker 1: I do for this dog? And if I make my
Speaker 1: relationship with the dog about what the dog needs, everybody
Speaker 1: changes for the better. And wait, can you just go
Speaker 1: back and explain for people who are listening what zen
Speaker 1: dog is. Which is how I knew I was in
Speaker 1: the right place was when I went on the Zen
Speaker 1: I was at a loss. I had just adopted a
Speaker 1: seven year old dog Adam and I, and he was
Speaker 1: air snapping at people. He was very aggressive on a leash.
Speaker 1: He hated other dogs, So my visions of having dog
Speaker 1: play dates with friends and going on long hikes up
Speaker 1: Runyon Canyon with my girlfriends and their dogs was not
Speaker 1: a reality. And I went to the website and said
Speaker 1: the Zen Dog and then I believe, I think the
Speaker 1: logo was there are no Bad Dogs or something. It
Speaker 1: said there are no bad dogs, and I remember breathing
Speaker 1: for the first time. So tell me what zen dog is. Well,
Speaker 1: the Zen Dog is a place for hope and help
Speaker 1: and solution. It's a place where people learn that they're
Speaker 1: not alone. One of the things that's important in the
Speaker 1: scientific understanding is that aggression is fear based. And so
Speaker 1: if we just look at that aggression is fear based,
Speaker 1: then it is it is overwhelming be likely that the
Speaker 1: aggression that that your dog or a dog that you're
Speaker 1: interacting with is expressing is simply because it's afraid. And
Speaker 1: if we look at it that way, it starts to
Speaker 1: shape in really important ways the way we interact with
Speaker 1: the dog. Because I have a three and a half
Speaker 1: year old son, he's angry right now because we have
Speaker 1: a five month old daughter that wasn't part of his plan.
Speaker 1: So and he wants to slap me on the face,
Speaker 1: you know there's something else going on. And and so
Speaker 1: if I know that agression is fear based, and I
Speaker 1: know what it's like having been afraid of dogs, and
Speaker 1: I know what it's like to be aggressive in my
Speaker 1: life from a place of fear. If I have that consideration,
Speaker 1: it changes how I'm going to meet the dog, you know,
Speaker 1: and meeting the dog where it's at is the first
Speaker 1: thing we do. I gotta respect what this dog needs,
Speaker 1: not what I want I want it to want, not
Speaker 1: what I think it wants. I gotta respect with this
Speaker 1: dog needs, which is what you and Adam have have done.
Speaker 1: You're just you're such great examples of how this works
Speaker 1: because you had with Roger, a show dog who had
Speaker 1: been touched, preamed, and poked without permission his entire life,
Speaker 1: and he had good reason to say, I don't want
Speaker 1: a human being to touch me. Ever again, that's exactly right, yes,
Speaker 1: and Matt I, I I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: in our generation get dogs before kids, because I think
Speaker 1: we are having babies later in life. And I think
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, they share a dog first,
Speaker 1: maybe in their relationship, and the dog is sort of
Speaker 1: the gateway drug to possibly children. Anyway, that was the
Speaker 1: case for me and Adam and you guys, we got
Speaker 1: one hell of a fucking dog. Like like and what
Speaker 1: Matt did. You came in and you did a few
Speaker 1: home sessions with us, and I remember you sat down
Speaker 1: on What you said to me was you can either
Speaker 1: accept Roger for who he is or you can't. And
Speaker 1: you he can't be your dog. You have to give
Speaker 1: him up or you accept him for who he is.
Speaker 1: And I started sobbing because I just had to, like
Speaker 1: you said, I love him for who he is, which means, no,
Speaker 1: I can't take him on social hikes with my friends. No,
Speaker 1: I can't take him to the dog beach and let
Speaker 1: him off leash and go frolic in the waves with
Speaker 1: other people. No, I can't trust him in big groups
Speaker 1: of people when they come over my house. He has
Speaker 1: to go away. And yet I love him anyway because
Speaker 1: he's like I don't know, I don't love him any less.
Speaker 1: I love him the ways he needs me to be loved,
Speaker 1: which is he allows me to pet him on the
Speaker 1: belly in the morning and at night when he's relaxed
Speaker 1: and on the floor. You know, he he I know
Speaker 1: him so well inside, and I know what he doesn't like,
Speaker 1: and I've just had to accept that he doesn't like
Speaker 1: those things. Whether or not I want to hike, it's
Speaker 1: never gonna happen. You said something interesting there I heard.
Speaker 1: I think what you meant to say is I love
Speaker 1: him the way that he needs to be loved. But
Speaker 1: what I think I actually heard you say is I
Speaker 1: love him the way he needs me to be loved.
Speaker 1: And if I riff off that for a second, that
Speaker 1: is actually a deeper, profound understanding of the nature of
Speaker 1: a relationship with the dog. Because if I love my
Speaker 1: dog based on the way I need to be loved,
Speaker 1: not the way I want to be loved, not the
Speaker 1: way I think you should love me, but really what
Speaker 1: I need to be loved, and it lets it lets
Speaker 1: my dog off the hook, because my dog's not there
Speaker 1: to fix my problems. Problems. Yeah, that was exactly it.
Speaker 1: So tell me, maybe take us through how you what's
Speaker 1: so great about having you on is that you also
Speaker 1: have two kids. How do you coach new parents into
Speaker 1: bringing a baby home, let's say, first to a household
Speaker 1: that has a dog. Well, we we do on on
Speaker 1: our website the zend dog dot com. We have a
Speaker 1: slew of information that's available and Brooklyn, my wife and
Speaker 1: I Brooklyn when we were preparing for our son talents arrival,
Speaker 1: who's our oldest, we already had five dogs. Four of
Speaker 1: them were leasily aggressive, and we had to have a
Speaker 1: very real conversation about whether or not we were going
Speaker 1: to be able to keep all five of our dogs.
Speaker 1: So we actually wrote what ended up being like a treaty,
Speaker 1: like a treatise, like sixteen page document of real time
Speaker 1: experience coupled with you know, empirical evidence and how science
Speaker 1: would support things about how to integrate a dog. And
Speaker 1: the thing to keep in mind is that safety and
Speaker 1: integration those are the points from which this temple of
Speaker 1: harmony can be built. Safety is not enough by itself,
Speaker 1: because safety can mean that I put the dog in
Speaker 1: the room every time somebody comes over, and the dog
Speaker 1: has never integrated into anything. Safety means I don't let
Speaker 1: my dog meet other dogs, and then my dog never
Speaker 1: has a dog. So safety doesn't really do anything. It
Speaker 1: just means that we don't get arrested. I didn't do
Speaker 1: criminal acts. I just didn't get arrested. You know what,
Speaker 1: I mean some of us. So safety and integration is key,
Speaker 1: and we come into it knowing that for many of us,
Speaker 1: definitely from Brooklyn and I, that our kids, our first kids,
Speaker 1: are as you said, are our dogs. And so there's
Speaker 1: this really sensitive and important and complex dynamic too to
Speaker 1: address in a short amount of time while the hormones
Speaker 1: are firing off and this baby is growing in your belly.
Speaker 1: And if we look at this and we think about
Speaker 1: how we set the dog up to succeed, that's really
Speaker 1: the number one question, how do I set this dog
Speaker 1: up to succeed? So in Roger's case, it doesn't dive
Speaker 1: for Roger to be around a kid party with our
Speaker 1: five dogs. Nama, who's who's one of our pitch mixes,
Speaker 1: who's a big star on our show Dog Impossible. Nama
Speaker 1: loves everybody, everybody and everything. So Nowama loves a kid party.
Speaker 1: She's been doing. My Jindo not so much. My little terrier,
Speaker 1: the one that I was that I first met when
Speaker 1: I was when I was getting facing my fear of dogs,
Speaker 1: not at all. So I got to know who the
Speaker 1: dog is, meet the dog where it's at. When we're
Speaker 1: looking at this integration process, safety and the integration or key.
Speaker 1: How do I set the dog up to succeed? And
Speaker 1: there are a couple of things to to bear in mind.
Speaker 1: One is that we we actually have times some people
Speaker 1: are up against it. They call me it at month
Speaker 1: eight of pregnancy and they say what do we do?
Speaker 1: And then I'm just looking at setting absolutely safe parameters.
Speaker 1: I first like to look at what's realistic for how
Speaker 1: you want your dog to be living with you. Do
Speaker 1: you want your dog to still be sleeping in the bedroom.
Speaker 1: Definitely not having your dog sleep in the bed. But
Speaker 1: I have to look at what's practical because as parents,
Speaker 1: you're gonna lose your mind. It reminded me of like
Speaker 1: a Monty Python sketch where my my skull cap had
Speaker 1: been taken off and then another one that was not
Speaker 1: mine was put back on, and my brain just kind
Speaker 1: of kept falling out. I couldn't think up all the pieces.
Speaker 1: And that's how you're supposed to manage a dog and
Speaker 1: a kid. It's not a great setup. So so I'm
Speaker 1: always looking at what's practical. For example, if your dog
Speaker 1: sleeps in the bed, not going to work. There are
Speaker 1: serious attachment issues that are gonna come to play A
Speaker 1: lot of dogs. Actually, what they do is they figure
Speaker 1: out this kid is now the center of attention, and
Speaker 1: so I'm going to cozy up to this kid. And
Speaker 1: it reads like my dog loves my kids so much.
Speaker 1: Look at my dog looks my kid's face and let
Speaker 1: him lay on him and all that stuff. And I
Speaker 1: can't tell you over the years from the people that
Speaker 1: come to me, nobody's coming to me on a winning streak.
Speaker 1: From the people that come to me, that was all
Speaker 1: cool until it wasn't. And when we play it back,
Speaker 1: we actually get to see that the dog was clearly
Speaker 1: communicating I'm not okay with this. So if we're looking
Speaker 1: at what's practical not having the dog in the bed,
Speaker 1: um Brooklyn I talked about it. I selfishly wanted the
Speaker 1: dogs in the bedroom, and she made the right call anyway,
Speaker 1: she said that's not gonna be okay with me. And
Speaker 1: if you think about it, waking up multiple times a night,
Speaker 1: whether your kid is is in the sleeper next to you,
Speaker 1: are co sleeping in the bed, or your kids in
Speaker 1: in another room, do you want your dog to be
Speaker 1: disturbed every time your kid is disturbed? Right? Your dog
Speaker 1: doesn't want to be disturbed exactly. So we start to
Speaker 1: shape things practically. How do you want to move about
Speaker 1: the house, how do you want to bring the kid
Speaker 1: home and introduce the dogs, those kinds of things. And
Speaker 1: even though it can feel overwhelming because we're looking at
Speaker 1: safety and integration, the dog has a unique opportunity if
Speaker 1: it's set up safe too, to actually watch your kid grow.
Speaker 1: And most dogs, there is a list of thirteen subliminal
Speaker 1: bite triggers, and every dog is any dog is predisposed
Speaker 1: to be one of the subliminal bite triggers as kids.
Speaker 1: So dogs don't typically have a frame of reference for
Speaker 1: a kid. But the upside of having an infant a
Speaker 1: newborn and we had our second kid, we did a
Speaker 1: home birth. Yeah on Halloween. She was born on Halloween,
Speaker 1: and we actually left the front door open and all
Speaker 1: the trigger treaders got to come in. It was rado. No,
Speaker 1: we didn't do that. I was just thinking in my head.
Speaker 1: I was busy thinking this is so full circle. You
Speaker 1: got a dog on Halloween and then you had a
Speaker 1: baby on Halloween. I was like, oh, that makes that
Speaker 1: that's a full circle. That doesn't make a s. But
Speaker 1: our dogs didn't. They didn't bark once they didn't like
Speaker 1: they were so they were so yeah. So. So the long,
Speaker 1: the long, detailed answer to your important question here is
Speaker 1: that your dog has time to acclimate because your kid's
Speaker 1: not gonna do much other than making noises and having
Speaker 1: diapers that smell interesting. Your kid's not going to do
Speaker 1: much for the first few months. And so our our girl,
Speaker 1: our daughter, she is now five months, she's just starting
Speaker 1: to work on this, although she wants yeah, all of that. So,
Speaker 1: so your dog has time to get used to this thing, right,
Speaker 1: do you recommend anything of like bringing home something that
Speaker 1: smells like the baby, and how you bring the dog inside.
Speaker 1: That's the stuff I really remember going over with you
Speaker 1: is like I was in the hospital and I'd just
Speaker 1: given birth to Albi, and I had my brother come
Speaker 1: to the hospital pick up like a bloody blanket that
Speaker 1: I had, like one of the many pieces of fabric
Speaker 1: that had been used in childbirth. And my brother, just
Speaker 1: because he's awesome, came and picked it up and brought
Speaker 1: it home and had Roger smell it or something. And
Speaker 1: then I vaguely remember when we brought Albie home, all
Speaker 1: meeting out in the middle of the street and then
Speaker 1: walking into the house in the order of power, if
Speaker 1: that makes sense, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear what
Speaker 1: you're saying. And we met in the street. I walked
Speaker 1: in with the baby, then Adam walked in, and Roger
Speaker 1: walked in last because he needed to know the shift
Speaker 1: it happened or something. Yeah, and what you did is
Speaker 1: actually you created in real time experientially for Roger a buffer.
Speaker 1: And that's important because when you got a new baby.
Speaker 1: Our rule in our house was hula hoop's length, no dog.
Speaker 1: I don't care how comfortable you are a dog with
Speaker 1: with us. In our family, no dog is within arm's
Speaker 1: length or hula hoop's length of the baby until we
Speaker 1: say so. Um, we didn't have our dogs didn't make
Speaker 1: contact with our kid until he was about three months old,
Speaker 1: and that was when they kissed his feet. And then
Speaker 1: about five and a half months old, Brooklyn was there
Speaker 1: because she had been doing it because she was home
Speaker 1: with him and the dogs at five months old five
Speaker 1: and a half months old are Blue, nose pit Desha
Speaker 1: Blue got to lick him in the face. That stuff
Speaker 1: takes time, but a lot of people don't do it
Speaker 1: that way. So yeah, you need like those people at first,
Speaker 1: really dive into it quickly, right, Like I feel like
Speaker 1: I see a lot of newborn video pictures of like
Speaker 1: you know, bringing home the baby and day too. They're
Speaker 1: they're being placed on the dog's belly and the dogs
Speaker 1: licking the faith And you think it's much more important
Speaker 1: to do everything very slow and really measured, right, I
Speaker 1: think that. But that's also the world of dogs that
Speaker 1: I work, and you know there there are there are
Speaker 1: just amazing stories and videos about dogs. You can see
Speaker 1: they're genuinely happy and protective and bonded and those kinds
Speaker 1: of things. So you know, to your question, it's about
Speaker 1: taking the mystery out of it. This whole thing is
Speaker 1: going to be weird and for an alien to everybody
Speaker 1: in the home, you know, humans and dogs included, So
Speaker 1: taking the mystery out of it. So if I'm gonna
Speaker 1: take the mystery out of it, I want to give
Speaker 1: the dog access to smells, sights, and sounds. This is
Speaker 1: not information I created. This is this is pretty standard.
Speaker 1: What Brooklyn and I did that was really informative was
Speaker 1: we created the baby date, which I'm which I'm really
Speaker 1: stoked about sharing. And what is it? What is it?
Speaker 1: What is we got a not the mega baby date
Speaker 1: that already happened. The baby date was we got a
Speaker 1: fake baby and brought and actually did the research and
Speaker 1: I did this. Remember that, you guys. I'm so sorry,
Speaker 1: but it's weird mom brain and dad brain, as you know,
Speaker 1: that is a real thing. I have a two and
Speaker 1: a half year old, and I forgot that I bought
Speaker 1: a fake baby that made crying sounds off the black market,
Speaker 1: that's right, and I and I like would this was
Speaker 1: when the nursery was built, and I put the baby
Speaker 1: in like the baby carrier, or like pretended to change
Speaker 1: the baby's diaper, or like hold the baby and press
Speaker 1: the buttons that it cried while I held the baby.
Speaker 1: So that the first time Albie did that in my house.
Speaker 1: Roger had already been seeing me do that with a
Speaker 1: fake baby. Yeah, you took the mystery out and we
Speaker 1: that the thing about the baby date that was so
Speaker 1: that was so great. There's there's an amazing vegan restaurant
Speaker 1: here called Little Pine. Shout out to Little Pine, Shout
Speaker 1: out a Little Pine, and we actually one of my
Speaker 1: favorite places to eat. So we had this fake baby
Speaker 1: that that our dogs hadn't seen yet, and we kept
Speaker 1: it in the car, which was, you know, the last
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks we'd ever get away of doing
Speaker 1: something like that. We kept it in the car. We
Speaker 1: went on this baby date and got dressed up and
Speaker 1: really enjoyed the time with each other. And we made
Speaker 1: a point on our on our baby date, at this
Speaker 1: great dinner of talking about everything we loved about each other,
Speaker 1: what we thought about each other as parents, what we
Speaker 1: everything we loved about our dogs, what we just There
Speaker 1: was so much love in the meal and in the experience,
Speaker 1: which was key because what you do is you come
Speaker 1: home with oxytocin. You come home with a baby in
Speaker 1: a carriage and full of oxytocin, which is the love drug.
Speaker 1: And what happens with the love drug is in those
Speaker 1: first two hours the oxytocin levels and it decreases, but
Speaker 1: the oxytocin levels of the highest they're ever going to
Speaker 1: be in the child's life. So if we're looking at
Speaker 1: that two day window, there's still quite a bit of
Speaker 1: it in the air, and the two day window. If
Speaker 1: you come home with the baby and you've got all
Speaker 1: this good juju and your dog picks that up, it's
Speaker 1: really helpful for the dog to know what that's about,
Speaker 1: and they've seen it before. And they've seen it before.
Speaker 1: So we brought fake baby home. We put fake baby
Speaker 1: on the on the cough the table, and I watched.
Speaker 1: We didn't do anything. I just wanted to do and
Speaker 1: I watched what my dogs were going to do. And
Speaker 1: the terrier, Kingston, it was the one that got me
Speaker 1: into all. This actually got really weird with fake baby.
Speaker 1: And that's when Brooklyn and I had unexpectedly had to
Speaker 1: have that conversation, are we going to be able to
Speaker 1: keep Kingston? What does this say about me as a
Speaker 1: dog trainer, etcetera, etcetera. And we did and haven't had
Speaker 1: an incident with him. Kingston is quite content. Yeah, we've
Speaker 1: had to really learn the rules of you know, it's
Speaker 1: such a in a way, it's a blessing that that,
Speaker 1: like you said, watching these babies grow, that everything sort
Speaker 1: of happened slowly. You know, they learned to crawl before
Speaker 1: they learned to walk, they learned to walk before they
Speaker 1: learned to run. Thank God, because I've been able to
Speaker 1: watch how Roger does and now it's like they're just
Speaker 1: hardcore rules, like if there's two babies over, three babies
Speaker 1: over Roger has to be put away. If there's any
Speaker 1: baby parties at the house, our dog walker has to
Speaker 1: come and take Roger away, or my brother has to
Speaker 1: come take Roger for a plate date for four hours
Speaker 1: or whatever. But like it's also for my peace of mind.
Speaker 1: Like I have a difficult dog, and it's my responsibility
Speaker 1: to make sure that I set him up for success.
Speaker 1: And throwing him in the middle of a plate date
Speaker 1: with toddlers who are now running around and some of
Speaker 1: them running after him is a terrible mix for my dog. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's that's the bottom line. You know, we talked
Speaker 1: about this a little bit before that It's it's ultimate
Speaker 1: about setting Roger up. And Roger doesn't want that mama.
Speaker 1: My mama wants it. Roger doesn't want it. And the
Speaker 1: other thing that's really important that you said is for
Speaker 1: your peace of mind, because there's it is hard enough parenting,
Speaker 1: and it's hard enough trying to be a good parent,
Speaker 1: you know, and be a conscious parent and those all
Speaker 1: those things, and and there's no way to see if
Speaker 1: the dog bit a kid, it would be my fault.
Speaker 1: It would be my fault because I know my dog
Speaker 1: and I know that he's sensitive to certain situations and
Speaker 1: I can't. Um. It's part of me being a dog
Speaker 1: owner that I don't put him in those situations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm not against re homing, I should say as
Speaker 1: as I've done that, and that's really important. I just
Speaker 1: want and that's not my call if people decided to
Speaker 1: do that, but I want parents to be able to
Speaker 1: make solid, experientially informed choices because it is a very
Speaker 1: very difficult choice and if a dog bites a kid,
Speaker 1: the odds of that dog getting rehomed are exponentially smaller.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about one of your training methods
Speaker 1: is to communicate with dogs through energy. I'm sure all
Speaker 1: of you listeners out there can just listen how the
Speaker 1: Matt Bisner energy is something I wish we could all
Speaker 1: just like wash ourselves with constantly, um, because it's so calming.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's because you work with
Speaker 1: aggressive dogs or people going through at times very very
Speaker 1: traumatic things with their dogs. But can you tell me
Speaker 1: about treating what is that? Yeah, it's a it is not.
Speaker 1: I know it can sound woo woo, but you ask
Speaker 1: anybody that's a parent and they walk into a room
Speaker 1: and they can tell you what the energy is. They're
Speaker 1: at a dinner and and the sitter says everything's cool,
Speaker 1: and then something doesn't feel right and they get a tax.
Speaker 1: So you know, your baby's choking on the knife I
Speaker 1: left out, you know, sorry, So it's so that's a
Speaker 1: real thing. I know that, you know, nine of human
Speaker 1: communication is nonverbal. But we've built this world on the
Speaker 1: six percent, you know, and not not very well. So
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot more happening here than than I
Speaker 1: can understand. What I do know is that if I,
Speaker 1: if I get quiet and I and I practice being
Speaker 1: calm around my dog, and I practice what I called attachment,
Speaker 1: which is not being cold. I'm not ignoring the dog.
Speaker 1: But if I if I practiced attachment so I don't
Speaker 1: engage with the dog unless the dog is calm, I
Speaker 1: start to see the dog in different ways, and I
Speaker 1: start to see my impulses to engage with the dog
Speaker 1: or get something, or rile the dog up or beloved.
Speaker 1: I start to see that, and I start to see
Speaker 1: the impact that I have when I do engage with
Speaker 1: my dog. So you you basically get you get your
Speaker 1: power back in this relationship. If you if you detach
Speaker 1: and you start to let your dog tell you who
Speaker 1: it is. You get you get real genuine positive impact
Speaker 1: in the relationship. So energy changes. Energy can be changed biologically, physiologically,
Speaker 1: chemically by the weather at the time of day. Guests
Speaker 1: you have over. What dogs do is they can experience
Speaker 1: something that stresses them, and then they can stack the
Speaker 1: stressors up and then and then even up to four
Speaker 1: d eight hours later, the dog snaps and it seems
Speaker 1: like it's come out of nowhere. I am not Zen,
Speaker 1: I'm not the Zen dog. I have to be this
Speaker 1: way as as somebody who is has to be clean
Speaker 1: and sober. I just have to maintain a certain mental
Speaker 1: and emotional sobriety. And it just so happens that that practically,
Speaker 1: that works really well for dogs. And I've been able
Speaker 1: to take the principles of that and offer it to
Speaker 1: people in a way that they can apply it in
Speaker 1: their homes and make it their own and it and
Speaker 1: it allows things to breathe, and it allows the dogs
Speaker 1: to be themselves. And I totally remember this MHM to
Speaker 1: this day. I I will say to my staff, even
Speaker 1: though I'm ten years and thousands of dogs into working
Speaker 1: exceptionally dangerous dogs I'll go into a yard where we're
Speaker 1: working with a dog and I'll say I don't feel
Speaker 1: right today, and I'm tapping out. I'm gonna let you
Speaker 1: run this session. I have to know that about myself.
Speaker 1: It's a different level of humility than how I was.
Speaker 1: I'll put it this on myself, different level of humility
Speaker 1: than how I raised myself to be. Wow, I remember this.
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, I grew up with very easy dogs.
Speaker 1: And I think that was also the huge problem with
Speaker 1: having the dog I got, and also having a baby
Speaker 1: in this sort of a picture becau because I grew
Speaker 1: up in a family where the dog slept in the
Speaker 1: bed and we all slept with the dog, and we
Speaker 1: rolled around with the dog, and the dog was a
Speaker 1: very submissive, you know, always on its back, ready for anything.
Speaker 1: And I had to repaint the picture in my mind
Speaker 1: that that's not what my family was going to look like.
Speaker 1: And I remember you retraining my brain of not rewarding
Speaker 1: Roger by petting him when he was super stoked and
Speaker 1: excited and wagging his tail, but waiting for him to
Speaker 1: be really calm and laying down and his zen like self,
Speaker 1: and then pet him so that it's reinforcing that behavior.
Speaker 1: That's it, and that's how what we found is if
Speaker 1: we change again, not to be abstract, if we change
Speaker 1: the energy in the relationship, then the dog's behavior changes
Speaker 1: and the dog actually can change its own behavior. And
Speaker 1: that's something else that that even since we met that,
Speaker 1: I've seen there's newer science that demonstrates that the reward
Speaker 1: system and the dog's brain fires more for humans attention
Speaker 1: than anything else than food or anything. It's all about
Speaker 1: most of the dogs that come to us. I have
Speaker 1: a colleague who is a master master aggression trainer, and
Speaker 1: he's relied with great success on food. I have a
Speaker 1: lot of dogs that come to us and that didn't
Speaker 1: work for them. So you know, we've found this niche
Speaker 1: where dogs could get help in a different way and
Speaker 1: and the energy is key. Um, so what do you
Speaker 1: suggest if this is so sad to even talk about
Speaker 1: what we have to It's an animal is being aggressive
Speaker 1: towards a baby, and it's more than what a family
Speaker 1: can handle. I know we spoke about rehoming, but I
Speaker 1: and of course I'm sure that is the last thing
Speaker 1: people want to think about. I mean, Adam and I
Speaker 1: really had to have those conversations and we ultimately did
Speaker 1: not make that decision, and it was the right one
Speaker 1: for us. Yeah, and it helped us grow as people,
Speaker 1: and I think also prepared and helped us to be parents,
Speaker 1: because I do have to say, I think about you
Speaker 1: constantly when I'm accepting my son for who he is
Speaker 1: and not what my childhood was, for what I thought
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be. And I feel like I
Speaker 1: got a lot of practice with that with Roger. But
Speaker 1: let's say aggression is still very much in the picture
Speaker 1: and parents are afraid or there's been a bite or something,
Speaker 1: What the hell do people do? Yeah? Well, that the
Speaker 1: single most important thing, and I hope this has taken
Speaker 1: with the respect that I mean. It is human safety,
Speaker 1: particularly the safety of the child. Uh. And if a
Speaker 1: dog is biting um, it's imperative to contact an appropriate professional,
Speaker 1: somebody at the very least who's method is based in
Speaker 1: positive training. What I do know is that a child
Speaker 1: that watches violence in the home with dogs, it's much
Speaker 1: more likely to grow up being violent. So those kinds
Speaker 1: of things are maybe second in the focus, but it's
Speaker 1: part of the reality. When we're looking at that element
Speaker 1: of danger and that and that even for myself in
Speaker 1: my own home, that we don't normalize that. I'm constantly
Speaker 1: explaining to my son that dogs are afraid, and how
Speaker 1: do we meet them where they're at, and how do
Speaker 1: we be kind and those kinds of things, and so
Speaker 1: getting immediate, appropriate professional help. There are a lot of
Speaker 1: great places to look for that. You know, we do
Speaker 1: what we can with the show, but but that's not
Speaker 1: the same thing as being in somebody's house. And you know,
Speaker 1: the show is also a show, and I take responsibility
Speaker 1: to for what we what we are able to transmit,
Speaker 1: but above all, don't put a child at risk. I
Speaker 1: have been in a home where somebody I said, in
Speaker 1: no uncertain terms, I cannot sign off on this because
Speaker 1: your daughter just said to me that she's afraid. Your
Speaker 1: ten year old daughter just said to me that she's afraid.
Speaker 1: And I do not feel comfortable about this dog remaining
Speaker 1: in this home. And the mom chose to ignore the
Speaker 1: daughter and keep the dog in the home. And what
Speaker 1: can I can do about I love that you brought
Speaker 1: up about the violence thing, because I think it's it's
Speaker 1: so great in today's day and age. I feel like
Speaker 1: there's a lot of literature that I have read just
Speaker 1: about disciplining kids and how violence is never, ever, ever,
Speaker 1: ever the option because it just teaches violence. And it's
Speaker 1: so great to hear that that's the same with dogs.
Speaker 1: Like if you are hitting your dog to shape their behavior, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just going to show your kids you can daily
Speaker 1: do the same. Yeah, you're gonna you'll change behavior, but
Speaker 1: but you won't empower the kid or the dog to
Speaker 1: change its own behavior. You'll get respect and that the
Speaker 1: behavior is not not the same. But you're going to
Speaker 1: get a dog that is having to compartmentalize things. And
Speaker 1: I can't say enough about about what it's like as
Speaker 1: a dad to have to be accountable to my three
Speaker 1: and a half year old son about how I interact
Speaker 1: with my dogs. Yeah, so how do you this is
Speaker 1: a good question, how do you teach your kid and
Speaker 1: other kids how to approach dogs that are strangers or
Speaker 1: dogs and other people's houses. Yeah. So the first thing
Speaker 1: is that I my son had to know from the
Speaker 1: beginning that you never touch a dog without permission. And
Speaker 1: and we are I'm not being cheeky and I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to capitalize on anything, but we are in a
Speaker 1: We are in a new understanding about what consent means,
Speaker 1: and this is an imperative for the dog's experience in
Speaker 1: the home. Do not touch a dog without permission. Now,
Speaker 1: what permission looks like maybe different for different people. Were
Speaker 1: were really clear and intentional about how we do that.
Speaker 1: The thing I told my son and you don't touch
Speaker 1: the dogs without permission. I taught him to look at
Speaker 1: things like stress or signals. Are the eyes getting tired
Speaker 1: as the dog turning away, or the lips puckering, you know,
Speaker 1: is the mouth puckering or they're licking their lips, is
Speaker 1: the breathing changing. And we looked at a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of different things, but most of all, I said, you
Speaker 1: always go underhanded and you leave it there. Go underhanded
Speaker 1: and you leave it there so that the dog can
Speaker 1: tell you if it wants to come to you. Never
Speaker 1: go over the top of the head. Number one fear
Speaker 1: trigger for a dog is being touched around the back
Speaker 1: of the neck. And that's that's how I got bit
Speaker 1: on Halloween. And that's what most of us do or
Speaker 1: would have done. So if I teach him that you
Speaker 1: don't touch a dog without permission, and if you want
Speaker 1: to ask permission, you go hand underneath first, and you
Speaker 1: let the dog come to you. And even then the
Speaker 1: dog may not want may not want you to pet it.
Speaker 1: It may just want to sniff you and see what's
Speaker 1: going on and so not how to teach him about patients.
Speaker 1: And that's it, And that's actually a win for the
Speaker 1: dog because use of smell is part of a positive
Speaker 1: what we consider the list of positive reinforcers, and it's
Speaker 1: such a valuable lesson. I mean, just listening to you
Speaker 1: say that, it's like, you know, I'm I'm trying to teach.
Speaker 1: I'll be like when he goes to someone's house, if
Speaker 1: there's a dog there, you can ask the owner, am
Speaker 1: I allowed to touch your pet? And if he gets
Speaker 1: permission from an adult, then he puts his hand underhand
Speaker 1: out calmly and just waits for the dog to come
Speaker 1: to him. And if the dog chooses that he doesn't
Speaker 1: want to come to you, then that's it. That's the
Speaker 1: end of the story. It's not like, oh, that's my
Speaker 1: cue to go run after you and put my hand
Speaker 1: over hand over your head. Yeah, any more than we
Speaker 1: get into a crowded room and we would say uh,
Speaker 1: and I'd go over and close talk with people. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Right, that's exactly right. What about
Speaker 1: for people whose kids are just afraid of dogs like
Speaker 1: there are? Just I was a nanny for ten years
Speaker 1: before I gave birth to um, not before I gave birth,
Speaker 1: That is not true. For ten years before scandal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I had a couple of kids who were definitely
Speaker 1: afraid of kids and had never had an incident. But
Speaker 1: they were the kids that when we showed up, I
Speaker 1: had to ask the owner to please put the dog
Speaker 1: away because it's going to ruin the plate. The kid
Speaker 1: on babysitting is just going to have a tantrum the
Speaker 1: whole time. What is that, Well, it's hard to say
Speaker 1: what it's like for for kids, there's show within any
Speaker 1: number of reasons why they're afraid. My experience has been
Speaker 1: that if the fear is not borne out of an
Speaker 1: actual traumatic event, and traumatic event may just be that
Speaker 1: I that I got scared as a kid dog man.
Speaker 1: It didn't even necessarily bite me. But most of all,
Speaker 1: what I see is that the kids just don't know
Speaker 1: and they haven't been taught. And so in the same
Speaker 1: way that we want to set dogs like Roger to succeed,
Speaker 1: we want to set the kids up, and so I
Speaker 1: want to give the kids room for safety and integration,
Speaker 1: give them space to observe. And if I can help
Speaker 1: a kid, I do this. I've done this with my
Speaker 1: son and I do it with his friends. If I
Speaker 1: can just help them watch, they start to see things differently,
Speaker 1: and even if they don't love dogs in the future,
Speaker 1: it makes a little bit of space. It puts a
Speaker 1: wedge between that fear and that possibility, and that can
Speaker 1: make the difference, you know, for a lifetime. I have
Speaker 1: a lot of That just means a lot to be
Speaker 1: able to do that with kids. That's great advice because
Speaker 1: I have seen also parents try to be like, you know,
Speaker 1: all come on, get over and just touch the dog.
Speaker 1: It's fine. It's not sort of like push the kid
Speaker 1: into their fear and push the kid into the experience
Speaker 1: with the dog. And I I've always felt instinctually like
Speaker 1: that is not the right choice. So it's good for
Speaker 1: our listeners to know that if your kids are just
Speaker 1: innately afraid of dogs, so maybe just be somewhere where
Speaker 1: they can watch them, yes, you know, from afar, and
Speaker 1: get some space around the fear. And you know, my
Speaker 1: son has taught me that that his feelings are really
Speaker 1: important and if I if I'm gonna squash those I
Speaker 1: get over it, then I actually am negating his ability
Speaker 1: to communicate with himself. And to me, that's that is
Speaker 1: really troublesome for a parent. Tell me about this is
Speaker 1: really scary for me. If my dog is now ten,
Speaker 1: what in the heck? For most people, toddlers or younger kids,
Speaker 1: sometimes their first relationship with death will be an animal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what in the hell does one do? I'm I'm working
Speaker 1: through it right now. Four of our five dogs are seniors.
Speaker 1: Our oldest is fifteen. I think we've got a fifteen, thirteen, twelve, ten,
Speaker 1: and I know it's coming and uh, and I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but an episode, Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1: And I'll share about that openly because I'm not. I
Speaker 1: certainly don't. I don't have the answers by any stretch. Um.
Speaker 1: I have experience, and I and it's important for me
Speaker 1: to be transparent because if somebody can't relate to the experience,
Speaker 1: then it's not really worth much. And I'm afraid. And
Speaker 1: I tell my son I'm afraid, and he sees me
Speaker 1: crying about I see my dog. In a moment, I
Speaker 1: feel like my oldest is becoming a ghost. I literally
Speaker 1: want to write a story called ghost Dog about him.
Speaker 1: And I'm watching it happen, and you know, this eyesight
Speaker 1: goes in the ear, the hearing goes, and that, you know,
Speaker 1: you can see the stiffness in those kind of things.
Speaker 1: And he sees me crying and I tell him, you know,
Speaker 1: he's gonna he's going to pass. But I'm not even
Speaker 1: quite sure how to get into it beyond that. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm having a similar boat. My son is walking and
Speaker 1: running and scootering and bicycling, and simultaneously my dog is
Speaker 1: getting more and more arthritis, and I'm calling his name
Speaker 1: and he's not turning his head to see me. So
Speaker 1: he's hearing is getting less, and he has more moles
Speaker 1: than he's ever had. You know, It's just that cycle
Speaker 1: of life. For parents who are considering adopting, fostering, or
Speaker 1: bringing in an animal, are their characteristics that one would
Speaker 1: look for in a dog that would make the dog
Speaker 1: maybe better or worse to be with young kids? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's things people will will ask me about temperament, for sure.
Speaker 1: There are things that are They're often breed specific I
Speaker 1: look at physical skill sets of a breed. Obviously, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of press and positive and negative litigation around
Speaker 1: pit bulls. For example, in Brooklyn, I have two of them,
Speaker 1: and both of them are exception with our kid. But
Speaker 1: I look at the physical skill set. You know, those
Speaker 1: are big strong there breeds that are big strong dogs
Speaker 1: that are smart and sensitive, and they need a certain
Speaker 1: lifestyle and that may or may not be conducive to
Speaker 1: the way one parents. You know, there's just that. Then
Speaker 1: people ask me about getting a hypoallergenic dogs and dogs
Speaker 1: that bark and those kinds of things. I'm working with
Speaker 1: a Golden Retriever. Now that's one of the more dangerous
Speaker 1: dogs I've ever worked with. You wouldn't think that, but ever, right,
Speaker 1: I feel like every little video I see have a
Speaker 1: baby rolling around on an animal, it's a fucking Golden
Speaker 1: Retriever And I'm just sitting here with my crotchety air
Speaker 1: snapping wheat and terrier and I'm like, God, do you
Speaker 1: have Yeah, so I don't. I don't. That's not my world.
Speaker 1: What I think is really important is for the humans,
Speaker 1: the parents, to get honest with themselves about why they
Speaker 1: want a dog and what kind of dog they want
Speaker 1: and why they want that kind of dog, because if
Speaker 1: it's used as a salve for something else, if it's
Speaker 1: used to to fill a void for something else, then
Speaker 1: then it likely will become problematic because that dog is
Speaker 1: arriving not knowing that this whole thing is going to
Speaker 1: be put on it. And that's important, so fostering with
Speaker 1: reputable foster organizations. I happen to have the great privilege
Speaker 1: to serve as an advisor to a newer rescue group
Speaker 1: called Real Time Rescue, which I will plug shamelessly and
Speaker 1: we will include links to that thank you. And their
Speaker 1: tenants are exceptional and they take responsibility from the moment
Speaker 1: they find the dog all the way through the end,
Speaker 1: rather than they have pulled fifty dogs from a shelter.
Speaker 1: Can somebody give me money? You know? Like none of that.
Speaker 1: There's there's a different sense of responsibility and transparency and
Speaker 1: integrity and what they do. So it's what part of
Speaker 1: what I encourage people to include in their conversation. Where
Speaker 1: is a reputable rescue and how do they work? And
Speaker 1: tell me about their stories and really get the information
Speaker 1: because there's a whole underside to what happens in the
Speaker 1: rescue world, which I won't take up time here, and
Speaker 1: saying word of mouth is really key. When I adopted
Speaker 1: Roger at seven, I thought he was cute, a supermodel,
Speaker 1: which he is. He was a show dog, guys, and
Speaker 1: he was the exact breed that I grew up with.
Speaker 1: So I put on this dog my entire childhood experience
Speaker 1: and saw visions of me walking around with this supermodel,
Speaker 1: the dog that I could pat on my back because
Speaker 1: I adopted a senior dog. Yes, but he was a supermodel. Yes,
Speaker 1: And this dog is nothing like the dog I grew
Speaker 1: up with nothing, but has taught me more than I
Speaker 1: could ever thank him for. Okay, you you've given him
Speaker 1: a home that is nothing like the home he grew
Speaker 1: up in. That's really quite beautiful. He does never have
Speaker 1: to show again, that's for sure. Are Is there anything
Speaker 1: you can tell us about this time and coronavirus and
Speaker 1: dogs who are in shelters or things like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's happening. There's a there's a movement that's happening that
Speaker 1: I think is quite beautiful where people are they're they're
Speaker 1: making the extra effort to adopt dogs or to foster dogs,
Speaker 1: you know, short term or long term, just to keep
Speaker 1: the dogs in need. And what we're seeing here in
Speaker 1: l A County is that dogs that aren't severe cases
Speaker 1: aren't going to be accepted at shelters. So there is
Speaker 1: a huge number of dogs that that ostensibly are are
Speaker 1: going to need to be rehomed. And for people that
Speaker 1: have space and have the time, which a lot of
Speaker 1: us do, and have the patients, this is a great
Speaker 1: opportunity to give to something and to and to bond
Speaker 1: and to have relationships. And keep in mind that if
Speaker 1: you're not going to be this dogs forever person, that
Speaker 1: it's not enough just to spoil the dog until that
Speaker 1: dog lands in another home, because that dog is learning
Speaker 1: from you right now what it needs to do to
Speaker 1: be able to go out and have a place in
Speaker 1: the world where it belongs and where it can stay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been seeing that a lot on social media, people
Speaker 1: saying this is a great time to foster a pet.
Speaker 1: But that's a really good point. It's like, Okay, don't
Speaker 1: take in this foster dog for three weeks and like
Speaker 1: give it eight thousand treats and and a reality that
Speaker 1: will not be true at the end of it, but
Speaker 1: I can say as a dog owner during this time,
Speaker 1: I feel very grateful to have a dog. I keep
Speaker 1: having recollections of the other big things in my life
Speaker 1: that were global, and one of them being nine eleven,
Speaker 1: and I I remember all of those emotional support dogs
Speaker 1: being around, and I can say that this is I'm
Speaker 1: really happy that I have my dog, and just being
Speaker 1: able to pet him puts me in the present moment
Speaker 1: and can be a lovely release from all of the
Speaker 1: stress going on right now. So for people who are
Speaker 1: looking into fostering right now and looking for some companion,
Speaker 1: maybe you live alone and you're lonely, or your family's
Speaker 1: far away and you're quarantined in a different, far away
Speaker 1: city like it could be a great opportunity. And Real
Speaker 1: Time Rescue Real Time Rescue is a great organization that
Speaker 1: I work with that I get to serve as an
Speaker 1: advisor on and you contact them Real Time Rescue Inc.
Speaker 1: At gmail dot com, Real Time Rescue on Instagram and Facebook,
Speaker 1: and they can hook you up with dogs or hook
Speaker 1: you up with people that have dogs. This is amazing.
Speaker 1: Any last bits of wisdom, plugs tell us where listeners
Speaker 1: can find you, and just listen to your energy about
Speaker 1: dogs and family life. Thank you. The so our website
Speaker 1: is the Zen dog dot Com. I love to have
Speaker 1: people follow us on Facebook, the Zen Dog l A, Instagram,
Speaker 1: the Zen Dog l A and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: information on our website. We have a document call to
Speaker 1: Hope for help because now that we have a global reach,
Speaker 1: I think our show is in maybe twenty countries at
Speaker 1: this point, and it's it's been remarkable to feedback and
Speaker 1: obviously we can't help everybody, and I want to be
Speaker 1: intentional and responsible about how we can help. We have
Speaker 1: a lot of information on the website to at least
Speaker 1: begin the conversation for people between themselves and their dogs.
Speaker 1: And uh, I think the art of consideration is really
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. This whole thing is consideration. There's
Speaker 1: something that I don't know about this dog or myself
Speaker 1: for this moment, the knowing of which would change our experience.
Speaker 1: And if I stay open, if we look at the logo,
Speaker 1: the logo is open ended, the circles open ended, because
Speaker 1: there's always more I don't know. And if you look
Speaker 1: at the pad and the logos, I'm trying to do
Speaker 1: this backwards in the camera, the pad of the logos
Speaker 1: is sitting Buddha. And that's not for religious purposes. That's
Speaker 1: just to remind me that the center of what I
Speaker 1: do is about being quiet and paying attention. And when
Speaker 1: I slip, it's usually because I stopped considering things ego,
Speaker 1: in patience, whatever it was. But if I start to
Speaker 1: make it about me, it's going to go south. And
Speaker 1: this is the Zen Dog logo. Yeah, this is the Zendo.
Speaker 1: And I just feel like with or without pets, if
Speaker 1: you are people that have pets, don't have pets, have
Speaker 1: aggressive pets, have pets that aren't aggressive. I think we
Speaker 1: should all just spend a nice week retreat at the
Speaker 1: Zen Dog Love to. That's that our five year plan
Speaker 1: I got. I've been a whole master thing where you
Speaker 1: could come spend a weekend in a in a cabin
Speaker 1: at the back part of a huge problem. We will integrate.
Speaker 1: You're telling you come on This sounds like heaven on Earth.
Speaker 1: Are there any last bits of advice you could give
Speaker 1: for parents that are either about to bring a baby
Speaker 1: home into a household that has a dog, or people
Speaker 1: that are looking to get a dog. I think, don't
Speaker 1: do it alone. Don't do it alone. There's there's an
Speaker 1: immediate sense of isolation if you're not already in it
Speaker 1: when you're expecting and your bed bound and those kinds
Speaker 1: of things. Don't do it alone and get get appropriate
Speaker 1: help and keep talking to people you know there. There's
Speaker 1: there's so much wisdom out there and information and great
Speaker 1: science and uh and there's mastery out there. But most
Speaker 1: of all, don't do it alone. And I think second
Speaker 1: to that which I am right now learning in my
Speaker 1: life is be a little bit easier on yourself in
Speaker 1: the moment. Love that. See guys, Matt Bisner's Zen Dog.
Speaker 1: You think it's going to be about your dog dog,
Speaker 1: And this is the funny thing, it's about you. Am
Speaker 1: I right inspect If you make it about the dog,
Speaker 1: you'll definitely become about you. Matt, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for being on Katie's crib. You are a gem. I
Speaker 1: Roger thanks you, Adam, and I thank you endlessly. I'll
Speaker 1: be thanks you endlessly. Thank you. Thanks for letting me
Speaker 1: be part of your family and give them all my
Speaker 1: best appropriate affection. You will. I hope you guys learned
Speaker 1: so much about having a dog and having that part
Speaker 1: of your evolving family. I know Matt was so helpful
Speaker 1: to me in the time where I needed it most,
Speaker 1: and it meant a lot to me to be able
Speaker 1: to share him with you guys. So thank you for
Speaker 1: tuning into Katie's Crib and I would love to hear
Speaker 1: from you guys so we can continue navigating this mama
Speaker 1: thing together. Email me at Katie's Crib at shamaland dot com.
Speaker 1: You guys are incredible. I am so thankful to have
Speaker 1: you in my tribe. Love you, love you, love you.
Speaker 1: Get some sleep again. Katie's Crib is a production of
Speaker 1: Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, visit the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows coming for I Want You Want to Watch