1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome back to Katie's Crib. Everyone, 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: I'm Katie Lows, and on this episode, we're talking about 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: those other precious babies in our lives. Are furry babies, 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: are dogs? Okay. Since I started this podcast, I have 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: been absolutely dying to do an episode on both pets 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: and kids. So with us today is the amazing Matt Weiser, 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: who in my eyes is a dog whisper because of 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: how he was able to help my super duper difficult 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: dog dog Roger. If you guys know him, Roger Hamilton's 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: Shapiro Lows. I instagram them all the time. He's a 12 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: curmudgeon old part of a dog that I love. Matt, 13 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: who you may know from his National geographic TV show 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: called Dog Impossible, provides the best kind of training and 15 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: helps people develop the deepest possible relationship with their dog. 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: And he taught me so much and so many different 17 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: kinds of approaches that I wanted to share with you 18 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: guys on Katie's Crib. So thank you for being on. Matt, 19 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: I'm so glad to be here, Katie. Thanks oh my gosh, 20 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: I'm this has been I have to tell you, Like 21 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: I sent out tweets and and posts asking Katie's Crib 22 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: listeners like what are topics you really want to cover? 23 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: And across the board, people have always asked, how do 24 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: I bring a baby home to my house when I 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: have a dog, when I have a difficult dog, when 26 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: I have an older dog. What happens if I want 27 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: to get a dog and I have a kid. Our 28 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: dog is good for allergies, what happened if the dog 29 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: bites a kid? I mean, it's a very triggering topic. 30 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: And you saved my dog life. I almost had to 31 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: get rid of my dog so many times. And I'll 32 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: explain that in a minute, but let's just start with 33 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: a brief background on you and how you got into 34 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: this field, and what inspired you to work with all dogs, 35 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: but specifically aggressive dogs. To begin with, I was smiling 36 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: when you asked that, because the story never it's old 37 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: that I actually was afraid of dogs to about eleven 38 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: eleven twelve years ago. Now I have an appropriate sense 39 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: of fear, but I had interrational fear and I was 40 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: bit when I was a kid on Halloween. Um, I 41 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: was like eight years old, and my parents knew what 42 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: what a lot of people still consider to be helpful information, 43 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 1: which is if a dog's tail is wagging, that means 44 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: you can pet the dog. So it was Halloween. I 45 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: had a little pumpkin, you know, orange candy pumpkin bucket 46 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: with me, and my parents had dressed me up like 47 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon, and so the mask and everything was the 48 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: time set up, and I go to uh, So, I'm 49 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: approaching the dog and dogs wagging its tail and I 50 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: reached out and the dog punctures me in the arm 51 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: and that was hit. That was like for the next 52 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: thirty something years, I had that fear in the fear 53 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: just progressed. And then I got older and I was 54 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: ashamed of it, and you know, you're not supposed to 55 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: be a grown man and be afraid of dogs and 56 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And and then I landed 57 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: with somebody. About twelve years ago. I moved in with 58 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: somebody was pretty sick at the time, and I've been 59 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: open of people about the fact that I'm sober. So 60 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: I was actually detoxing. And I moved in with her 61 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: and she had an aggressive puppy who would attack me 62 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: every time I moved around the house and that kind 63 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: of out it started, and from there I ended up 64 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: helping her dog and who's now my dog. We've since 65 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: split with the dog and I are still together and 66 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: helping her dog and her friend's dogs and friends of 67 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: friends dogs. And I did a lot of stuff then 68 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: that that I wouldn't recommend. Now. You know, I was 69 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: a hack in a lot of ways, but what was 70 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: fundamental is that I begin the relationship with the dog 71 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: predicated on what the dog needed. And my understanding what 72 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: the dog needed was limited, for sure, and my ability 73 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: to help the dog was limited, for sure. But it 74 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: planted a see that became a foundational principle of the 75 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: Zen dog as it is today, which is what do 76 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: I do for this dog? And if I make my 77 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: relationship with the dog about what the dog needs, everybody 78 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: changes for the better. And wait, can you just go 79 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: back and explain for people who are listening what zen 80 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: dog is. Which is how I knew I was in 81 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: the right place was when I went on the Zen 82 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: I was at a loss. I had just adopted a 83 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: seven year old dog Adam and I, and he was 84 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: air snapping at people. He was very aggressive on a leash. 85 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: He hated other dogs, So my visions of having dog 86 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: play dates with friends and going on long hikes up 87 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: Runyon Canyon with my girlfriends and their dogs was not 88 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: a reality. And I went to the website and said 89 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: the Zen Dog and then I believe, I think the 90 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: logo was there are no Bad Dogs or something. It 91 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: said there are no bad dogs, and I remember breathing 92 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: for the first time. So tell me what zen dog is. Well, 93 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,559 Speaker 1: the Zen Dog is a place for hope and help 94 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: and solution. It's a place where people learn that they're 95 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: not alone. One of the things that's important in the 96 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: scientific understanding is that aggression is fear based. And so 97 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: if we just look at that aggression is fear based, 98 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: then it is it is overwhelming be likely that the 99 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: aggression that that your dog or a dog that you're 100 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: interacting with is expressing is simply because it's afraid. And 101 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: if we look at it that way, it starts to 102 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: shape in really important ways the way we interact with 103 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: the dog. Because I have a three and a half 104 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: year old son, he's angry right now because we have 105 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: a five month old daughter that wasn't part of his plan. 106 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: So and he wants to slap me on the face, 107 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: you know there's something else going on. And and so 108 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: if I know that agression is fear based, and I 109 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: know what it's like having been afraid of dogs, and 110 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: I know what it's like to be aggressive in my 111 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: life from a place of fear. If I have that consideration, 112 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: it changes how I'm going to meet the dog, you know, 113 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: and meeting the dog where it's at is the first 114 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,559 Speaker 1: thing we do. I gotta respect what this dog needs, 115 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: not what I want I want it to want, not 116 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: what I think it wants. I gotta respect with this 117 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: dog needs, which is what you and Adam have have done. 118 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: You're just you're such great examples of how this works 119 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: because you had with Roger, a show dog who had 120 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: been touched, preamed, and poked without permission his entire life, 121 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: and he had good reason to say, I don't want 122 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: a human being to touch me. Ever again, that's exactly right, yes, 123 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,799 Speaker 1: and Matt I, I I think a lot of people 124 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: in our generation get dogs before kids, because I think 125 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: we are having babies later in life. And I think 126 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: for a lot of people, they share a dog first, 127 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: maybe in their relationship, and the dog is sort of 128 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: the gateway drug to possibly children. Anyway, that was the 129 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: case for me and Adam and you guys, we got 130 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: one hell of a fucking dog. Like like and what 131 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: Matt did. You came in and you did a few 132 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: home sessions with us, and I remember you sat down 133 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: on What you said to me was you can either 134 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: accept Roger for who he is or you can't. And 135 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: you he can't be your dog. You have to give 136 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: him up or you accept him for who he is. 137 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: And I started sobbing because I just had to, like 138 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: you said, I love him for who he is, which means, no, 139 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: I can't take him on social hikes with my friends. No, 140 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: I can't take him to the dog beach and let 141 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: him off leash and go frolic in the waves with 142 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: other people. No, I can't trust him in big groups 143 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: of people when they come over my house. He has 144 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: to go away. And yet I love him anyway because 145 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: he's like I don't know, I don't love him any less. 146 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: I love him the ways he needs me to be loved, 147 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: which is he allows me to pet him on the 148 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: belly in the morning and at night when he's relaxed 149 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: and on the floor. You know, he he I know 150 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: him so well inside, and I know what he doesn't like, 151 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: and I've just had to accept that he doesn't like 152 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: those things. Whether or not I want to hike, it's 153 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: never gonna happen. You said something interesting there I heard. 154 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: I think what you meant to say is I love 155 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: him the way that he needs to be loved. But 156 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: what I think I actually heard you say is I 157 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: love him the way he needs me to be loved. 158 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: And if I riff off that for a second, that 159 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: is actually a deeper, profound understanding of the nature of 160 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: a relationship with the dog. Because if I love my 161 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: dog based on the way I need to be loved, 162 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: not the way I want to be loved, not the 163 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: way I think you should love me, but really what 164 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: I need to be loved, and it lets it lets 165 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: my dog off the hook, because my dog's not there 166 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: to fix my problems. Problems. Yeah, that was exactly it. 167 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: So tell me, maybe take us through how you what's 168 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: so great about having you on is that you also 169 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: have two kids. How do you coach new parents into 170 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: bringing a baby home, let's say, first to a household 171 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: that has a dog. Well, we we do on on 172 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: our website the zend dog dot com. We have a 173 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: slew of information that's available and Brooklyn, my wife and 174 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: I Brooklyn when we were preparing for our son talents arrival, 175 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: who's our oldest, we already had five dogs. Four of 176 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: them were leasily aggressive, and we had to have a 177 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: very real conversation about whether or not we were going 178 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: to be able to keep all five of our dogs. 179 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: So we actually wrote what ended up being like a treaty, 180 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: like a treatise, like sixteen page document of real time 181 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: experience coupled with you know, empirical evidence and how science 182 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: would support things about how to integrate a dog. And 183 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: the thing to keep in mind is that safety and 184 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: integration those are the points from which this temple of 185 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: harmony can be built. Safety is not enough by itself, 186 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: because safety can mean that I put the dog in 187 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: the room every time somebody comes over, and the dog 188 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: has never integrated into anything. Safety means I don't let 189 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: my dog meet other dogs, and then my dog never 190 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,839 Speaker 1: has a dog. So safety doesn't really do anything. It 191 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: just means that we don't get arrested. I didn't do 192 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: criminal acts. I just didn't get arrested. You know what, 193 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: I mean some of us. So safety and integration is key, 194 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: and we come into it knowing that for many of us, 195 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: definitely from Brooklyn and I, that our kids, our first kids, 196 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: are as you said, are our dogs. And so there's 197 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: this really sensitive and important and complex dynamic too to 198 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: address in a short amount of time while the hormones 199 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: are firing off and this baby is growing in your belly. 200 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: And if we look at this and we think about 201 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: how we set the dog up to succeed, that's really 202 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: the number one question, how do I set this dog 203 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: up to succeed? So in Roger's case, it doesn't dive 204 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: for Roger to be around a kid party with our 205 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: five dogs. Nama, who's who's one of our pitch mixes, 206 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: who's a big star on our show Dog Impossible. Nama 207 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: loves everybody, everybody and everything. So Nowama loves a kid party. 208 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: She's been doing. My Jindo not so much. My little terrier, 209 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: the one that I was that I first met when 210 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: I was when I was getting facing my fear of dogs, 211 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: not at all. So I got to know who the 212 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 1: dog is, meet the dog where it's at. When we're 213 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: looking at this integration process, safety and the integration or key. 214 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: How do I set the dog up to succeed? And 215 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: there are a couple of things to to bear in mind. 216 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: One is that we we actually have times some people 217 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: are up against it. They call me it at month 218 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: eight of pregnancy and they say what do we do? 219 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: And then I'm just looking at setting absolutely safe parameters. 220 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: I first like to look at what's realistic for how 221 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: you want your dog to be living with you. Do 222 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: you want your dog to still be sleeping in the bedroom. 223 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: Definitely not having your dog sleep in the bed. But 224 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: I have to look at what's practical because as parents, 225 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna lose your mind. It reminded me of like 226 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: a Monty Python sketch where my my skull cap had 227 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: been taken off and then another one that was not 228 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: mine was put back on, and my brain just kind 229 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: of kept falling out. I couldn't think up all the pieces. 230 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: And that's how you're supposed to manage a dog and 231 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: a kid. It's not a great setup. So so I'm 232 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: always looking at what's practical. For example, if your dog 233 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: sleeps in the bed, not going to work. There are 234 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: serious attachment issues that are gonna come to play A 235 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: lot of dogs. Actually, what they do is they figure 236 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: out this kid is now the center of attention, and 237 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: so I'm going to cozy up to this kid. And 238 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: it reads like my dog loves my kids so much. 239 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: Look at my dog looks my kid's face and let 240 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: him lay on him and all that stuff. And I 241 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: can't tell you over the years from the people that 242 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: come to me, nobody's coming to me on a winning streak. 243 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: From the people that come to me, that was all 244 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: cool until it wasn't. And when we play it back, 245 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: we actually get to see that the dog was clearly 246 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: communicating I'm not okay with this. So if we're looking 247 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: at what's practical not having the dog in the bed, 248 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: um Brooklyn I talked about it. I selfishly wanted the 249 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: dogs in the bedroom, and she made the right call anyway, 250 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: she said that's not gonna be okay with me. And 251 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: if you think about it, waking up multiple times a night, 252 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: whether your kid is is in the sleeper next to you, 253 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: are co sleeping in the bed, or your kids in 254 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: in another room, do you want your dog to be 255 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: disturbed every time your kid is disturbed? Right? Your dog 256 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: doesn't want to be disturbed exactly. So we start to 257 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: shape things practically. How do you want to move about 258 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: the house, how do you want to bring the kid 259 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: home and introduce the dogs, those kinds of things. And 260 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: even though it can feel overwhelming because we're looking at 261 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: safety and integration, the dog has a unique opportunity if 262 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: it's set up safe too, to actually watch your kid grow. 263 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: And most dogs, there is a list of thirteen subliminal 264 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: bite triggers, and every dog is any dog is predisposed 265 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: to be one of the subliminal bite triggers as kids. 266 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: So dogs don't typically have a frame of reference for 267 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: a kid. But the upside of having an infant a 268 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: newborn and we had our second kid, we did a 269 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: home birth. Yeah on Halloween. She was born on Halloween, 270 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: and we actually left the front door open and all 271 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: the trigger treaders got to come in. It was rado. No, 272 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: we didn't do that. I was just thinking in my head. 273 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: I was busy thinking this is so full circle. You 274 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: got a dog on Halloween and then you had a 275 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: baby on Halloween. I was like, oh, that makes that 276 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: that's a full circle. That doesn't make a s. But 277 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: our dogs didn't. They didn't bark once they didn't like 278 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: they were so they were so yeah. So. So the long, 279 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: the long, detailed answer to your important question here is 280 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: that your dog has time to acclimate because your kid's 281 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: not gonna do much other than making noises and having 282 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: diapers that smell interesting. Your kid's not going to do 283 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: much for the first few months. And so our our girl, 284 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: our daughter, she is now five months, she's just starting 285 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: to work on this, although she wants yeah, all of that. So, 286 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: so your dog has time to get used to this thing, right, 287 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: do you recommend anything of like bringing home something that 288 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: smells like the baby, and how you bring the dog inside. 289 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: That's the stuff I really remember going over with you 290 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: is like I was in the hospital and I'd just 291 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: given birth to Albi, and I had my brother come 292 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: to the hospital pick up like a bloody blanket that 293 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: I had, like one of the many pieces of fabric 294 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: that had been used in childbirth. And my brother, just 295 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: because he's awesome, came and picked it up and brought 296 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: it home and had Roger smell it or something. And 297 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: then I vaguely remember when we brought Albie home, all 298 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: meeting out in the middle of the street and then 299 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: walking into the house in the order of power, if 300 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: that makes sense, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear what 301 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: you're saying. And we met in the street. I walked 302 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: in with the baby, then Adam walked in, and Roger 303 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: walked in last because he needed to know the shift 304 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: it happened or something. Yeah, and what you did is 305 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: actually you created in real time experientially for Roger a buffer. 306 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: And that's important because when you got a new baby. 307 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: Our rule in our house was hula hoop's length, no dog. 308 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: I don't care how comfortable you are a dog with 309 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: with us. In our family, no dog is within arm's 310 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: length or hula hoop's length of the baby until we 311 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: say so. Um, we didn't have our dogs didn't make 312 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: contact with our kid until he was about three months old, 313 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: and that was when they kissed his feet. And then 314 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: about five and a half months old, Brooklyn was there 315 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: because she had been doing it because she was home 316 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: with him and the dogs at five months old five 317 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: and a half months old are Blue, nose pit Desha 318 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: Blue got to lick him in the face. That stuff 319 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: takes time, but a lot of people don't do it 320 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: that way. So yeah, you need like those people at first, 321 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: really dive into it quickly, right, Like I feel like 322 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: I see a lot of newborn video pictures of like 323 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: you know, bringing home the baby and day too. They're 324 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: they're being placed on the dog's belly and the dogs 325 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: licking the faith And you think it's much more important 326 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: to do everything very slow and really measured, right, I 327 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: think that. But that's also the world of dogs that 328 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: I work, and you know there there are there are 329 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: just amazing stories and videos about dogs. You can see 330 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: they're genuinely happy and protective and bonded and those kinds 331 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: of things. So you know, to your question, it's about 332 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: taking the mystery out of it. This whole thing is 333 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,479 Speaker 1: going to be weird and for an alien to everybody 334 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: in the home, you know, humans and dogs included, So 335 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: taking the mystery out of it. So if I'm gonna 336 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: take the mystery out of it, I want to give 337 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: the dog access to smells, sights, and sounds. This is 338 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: not information I created. This is this is pretty standard. 339 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: What Brooklyn and I did that was really informative was 340 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: we created the baby date, which I'm which I'm really 341 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: stoked about sharing. And what is it? What is it? 342 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: What is we got a not the mega baby date 343 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: that already happened. The baby date was we got a 344 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: fake baby and brought and actually did the research and 345 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: I did this. Remember that, you guys. I'm so sorry, 346 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: but it's weird mom brain and dad brain, as you know, 347 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: that is a real thing. I have a two and 348 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: a half year old, and I forgot that I bought 349 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: a fake baby that made crying sounds off the black market, 350 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: that's right, and I and I like would this was 351 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: when the nursery was built, and I put the baby 352 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: in like the baby carrier, or like pretended to change 353 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: the baby's diaper, or like hold the baby and press 354 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: the buttons that it cried while I held the baby. 355 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: So that the first time Albie did that in my house. 356 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: Roger had already been seeing me do that with a 357 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: fake baby. Yeah, you took the mystery out and we 358 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: that the thing about the baby date that was so 359 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: that was so great. There's there's an amazing vegan restaurant 360 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: here called Little Pine. Shout out to Little Pine, Shout 361 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: out a Little Pine, and we actually one of my 362 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: favorite places to eat. So we had this fake baby 363 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: that that our dogs hadn't seen yet, and we kept 364 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: it in the car, which was, you know, the last 365 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: last couple of weeks we'd ever get away of doing 366 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: something like that. We kept it in the car. We 367 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,239 Speaker 1: went on this baby date and got dressed up and 368 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: really enjoyed the time with each other. And we made 369 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: a point on our on our baby date, at this 370 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: great dinner of talking about everything we loved about each other, 371 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: what we thought about each other as parents, what we 372 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: everything we loved about our dogs, what we just There 373 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: was so much love in the meal and in the experience, 374 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: which was key because what you do is you come 375 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: home with oxytocin. You come home with a baby in 376 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: a carriage and full of oxytocin, which is the love drug. 377 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 1: And what happens with the love drug is in those 378 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: first two hours the oxytocin levels and it decreases, but 379 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: the oxytocin levels of the highest they're ever going to 380 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: be in the child's life. So if we're looking at 381 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: that two day window, there's still quite a bit of 382 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,239 Speaker 1: it in the air, and the two day window. If 383 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: you come home with the baby and you've got all 384 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: this good juju and your dog picks that up, it's 385 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: really helpful for the dog to know what that's about, 386 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: and they've seen it before. And they've seen it before. 387 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: So we brought fake baby home. We put fake baby 388 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: on the on the cough the table, and I watched. 389 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: We didn't do anything. I just wanted to do and 390 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: I watched what my dogs were going to do. And 391 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: the terrier, Kingston, it was the one that got me 392 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: into all. This actually got really weird with fake baby. 393 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: And that's when Brooklyn and I had unexpectedly had to 394 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: have that conversation, are we going to be able to 395 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: keep Kingston? What does this say about me as a 396 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,239 Speaker 1: dog trainer, etcetera, etcetera. And we did and haven't had 397 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: an incident with him. Kingston is quite content. Yeah, we've 398 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: had to really learn the rules of you know, it's 399 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: such a in a way, it's a blessing that that, 400 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: like you said, watching these babies grow, that everything sort 401 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: of happened slowly. You know, they learned to crawl before 402 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: they learned to walk, they learned to walk before they 403 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: learned to run. Thank God, because I've been able to 404 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: watch how Roger does and now it's like they're just 405 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: hardcore rules, like if there's two babies over, three babies 406 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: over Roger has to be put away. If there's any 407 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: baby parties at the house, our dog walker has to 408 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: come and take Roger away, or my brother has to 409 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: come take Roger for a plate date for four hours 410 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: or whatever. But like it's also for my peace of mind. 411 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: Like I have a difficult dog, and it's my responsibility 412 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: to make sure that I set him up for success. 413 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: And throwing him in the middle of a plate date 414 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: with toddlers who are now running around and some of 415 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: them running after him is a terrible mix for my dog. Yeah, yeah, 416 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: And that's that's the bottom line. You know, we talked 417 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: about this a little bit before that It's it's ultimate 418 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: about setting Roger up. And Roger doesn't want that mama. 419 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: My mama wants it. Roger doesn't want it. And the 420 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: other thing that's really important that you said is for 421 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: your peace of mind, because there's it is hard enough parenting, 422 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: and it's hard enough trying to be a good parent, 423 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: you know, and be a conscious parent and those all 424 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: those things, and and there's no way to see if 425 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: the dog bit a kid, it would be my fault. 426 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: It would be my fault because I know my dog 427 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: and I know that he's sensitive to certain situations and 428 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: I can't. Um. It's part of me being a dog 429 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: owner that I don't put him in those situations. Yeah, 430 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: and I'm not against re homing, I should say as 431 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: as I've done that, and that's really important. I just 432 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: want and that's not my call if people decided to 433 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: do that, but I want parents to be able to 434 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: make solid, experientially informed choices because it is a very 435 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: very difficult choice and if a dog bites a kid, 436 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 1: the odds of that dog getting rehomed are exponentially smaller. 437 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: Can you tell me about one of your training methods 438 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: is to communicate with dogs through energy. I'm sure all 439 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: of you listeners out there can just listen how the 440 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: Matt Bisner energy is something I wish we could all 441 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: just like wash ourselves with constantly, um, because it's so calming. 442 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's because you work with 443 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: aggressive dogs or people going through at times very very 444 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: traumatic things with their dogs. But can you tell me 445 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: about treating what is that? Yeah, it's a it is not. 446 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: I know it can sound woo woo, but you ask 447 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: anybody that's a parent and they walk into a room 448 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: and they can tell you what the energy is. They're 449 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: at a dinner and and the sitter says everything's cool, 450 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: and then something doesn't feel right and they get a tax. 451 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: So you know, your baby's choking on the knife I 452 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: left out, you know, sorry, So it's so that's a 453 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: real thing. I know that, you know, nine of human 454 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: communication is nonverbal. But we've built this world on the 455 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: six percent, you know, and not not very well. So 456 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: there's there's a lot more happening here than than I 457 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: can understand. What I do know is that if I, 458 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: if I get quiet and I and I practice being 459 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: calm around my dog, and I practice what I called attachment, 460 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: which is not being cold. I'm not ignoring the dog. 461 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: But if I if I practiced attachment so I don't 462 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: engage with the dog unless the dog is calm, I 463 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: start to see the dog in different ways, and I 464 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: start to see my impulses to engage with the dog 465 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: or get something, or rile the dog up or beloved. 466 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: I start to see that, and I start to see 467 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,479 Speaker 1: the impact that I have when I do engage with 468 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: my dog. So you you basically get you get your 469 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: power back in this relationship. If you if you detach 470 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: and you start to let your dog tell you who 471 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: it is. You get you get real genuine positive impact 472 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: in the relationship. So energy changes. Energy can be changed biologically, physiologically, 473 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: chemically by the weather at the time of day. Guests 474 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: you have over. What dogs do is they can experience 475 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: something that stresses them, and then they can stack the 476 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: stressors up and then and then even up to four 477 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: d eight hours later, the dog snaps and it seems 478 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: like it's come out of nowhere. I am not Zen, 479 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: I'm not the Zen dog. I have to be this 480 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: way as as somebody who is has to be clean 481 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: and sober. I just have to maintain a certain mental 482 00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: and emotional sobriety. And it just so happens that that practically, 483 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 1: that works really well for dogs. And I've been able 484 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: to take the principles of that and offer it to 485 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: people in a way that they can apply it in 486 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: their homes and make it their own and it and 487 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: it allows things to breathe, and it allows the dogs 488 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: to be themselves. And I totally remember this MHM to 489 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: this day. I I will say to my staff, even 490 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: though I'm ten years and thousands of dogs into working 491 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: exceptionally dangerous dogs I'll go into a yard where we're 492 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: working with a dog and I'll say I don't feel 493 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,719 Speaker 1: right today, and I'm tapping out. I'm gonna let you 494 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: run this session. I have to know that about myself. 495 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: It's a different level of humility than how I was. 496 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: I'll put it this on myself, different level of humility 497 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: than how I raised myself to be. Wow, I remember this. 498 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: I remember, you know, I grew up with very easy dogs. 499 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: And I think that was also the huge problem with 500 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: having the dog I got, and also having a baby 501 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: in this sort of a picture becau because I grew 502 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: up in a family where the dog slept in the 503 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: bed and we all slept with the dog, and we 504 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: rolled around with the dog, and the dog was a 505 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: very submissive, you know, always on its back, ready for anything. 506 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: And I had to repaint the picture in my mind 507 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: that that's not what my family was going to look like. 508 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: And I remember you retraining my brain of not rewarding 509 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: Roger by petting him when he was super stoked and 510 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 1: excited and wagging his tail, but waiting for him to 511 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: be really calm and laying down and his zen like self, 512 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: and then pet him so that it's reinforcing that behavior. 513 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: That's it, and that's how what we found is if 514 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: we change again, not to be abstract, if we change 515 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: the energy in the relationship, then the dog's behavior changes 516 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: and the dog actually can change its own behavior. And 517 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: that's something else that that even since we met that, 518 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: I've seen there's newer science that demonstrates that the reward 519 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: system and the dog's brain fires more for humans attention 520 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: than anything else than food or anything. It's all about 521 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: most of the dogs that come to us. I have 522 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: a colleague who is a master master aggression trainer, and 523 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: he's relied with great success on food. I have a 524 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: lot of dogs that come to us and that didn't 525 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 1: work for them. So you know, we've found this niche 526 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: where dogs could get help in a different way and 527 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: and the energy is key. Um, so what do you 528 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: suggest if this is so sad to even talk about 529 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: what we have to It's an animal is being aggressive 530 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: towards a baby, and it's more than what a family 531 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,959 Speaker 1: can handle. I know we spoke about rehoming, but I 532 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: and of course I'm sure that is the last thing 533 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: people want to think about. I mean, Adam and I 534 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: really had to have those conversations and we ultimately did 535 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: not make that decision, and it was the right one 536 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: for us. Yeah, and it helped us grow as people, 537 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: and I think also prepared and helped us to be parents, 538 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: because I do have to say, I think about you 539 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: constantly when I'm accepting my son for who he is 540 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: and not what my childhood was, for what I thought 541 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: it was supposed to be. And I feel like I 542 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: got a lot of practice with that with Roger. But 543 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: let's say aggression is still very much in the picture 544 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: and parents are afraid or there's been a bite or something, 545 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: What the hell do people do? Yeah? Well, that the 546 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: single most important thing, and I hope this has taken 547 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: with the respect that I mean. It is human safety, 548 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: particularly the safety of the child. Uh. And if a 549 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: dog is biting um, it's imperative to contact an appropriate professional, 550 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: somebody at the very least who's method is based in 551 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: positive training. What I do know is that a child 552 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: that watches violence in the home with dogs, it's much 553 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: more likely to grow up being violent. So those kinds 554 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: of things are maybe second in the focus, but it's 555 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: part of the reality. When we're looking at that element 556 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: of danger and that and that even for myself in 557 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: my own home, that we don't normalize that. I'm constantly 558 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: explaining to my son that dogs are afraid, and how 559 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: do we meet them where they're at, and how do 560 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: we be kind and those kinds of things, and so 561 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: getting immediate, appropriate professional help. There are a lot of 562 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: great places to look for that. You know, we do 563 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: what we can with the show, but but that's not 564 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: the same thing as being in somebody's house. And you know, 565 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: the show is also a show, and I take responsibility 566 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: to for what we what we are able to transmit, 567 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: but above all, don't put a child at risk. I 568 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: have been in a home where somebody I said, in 569 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: no uncertain terms, I cannot sign off on this because 570 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: your daughter just said to me that she's afraid. Your 571 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: ten year old daughter just said to me that she's afraid. 572 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: And I do not feel comfortable about this dog remaining 573 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: in this home. And the mom chose to ignore the 574 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: daughter and keep the dog in the home. And what 575 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: can I can do about I love that you brought 576 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: up about the violence thing, because I think it's it's 577 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: so great in today's day and age. I feel like 578 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: there's a lot of literature that I have read just 579 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: about disciplining kids and how violence is never, ever, ever, 580 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: ever the option because it just teaches violence. And it's 581 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: so great to hear that that's the same with dogs. 582 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: Like if you are hitting your dog to shape their behavior, yeah, 583 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: it's just going to show your kids you can daily 584 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: do the same. Yeah, you're gonna you'll change behavior, but 585 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: but you won't empower the kid or the dog to 586 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: change its own behavior. You'll get respect and that the 587 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: behavior is not not the same. But you're going to 588 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: get a dog that is having to compartmentalize things. And 589 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: I can't say enough about about what it's like as 590 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: a dad to have to be accountable to my three 591 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: and a half year old son about how I interact 592 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: with my dogs. Yeah, so how do you this is 593 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: a good question, how do you teach your kid and 594 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: other kids how to approach dogs that are strangers or 595 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: dogs and other people's houses. Yeah. So the first thing 596 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: is that I my son had to know from the 597 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: beginning that you never touch a dog without permission. And 598 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: and we are I'm not being cheeky and I'm not 599 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: trying to capitalize on anything, but we are in a 600 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: We are in a new understanding about what consent means, 601 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: and this is an imperative for the dog's experience in 602 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: the home. Do not touch a dog without permission. Now, 603 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: what permission looks like maybe different for different people. Were 604 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: were really clear and intentional about how we do that. 605 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: The thing I told my son and you don't touch 606 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: the dogs without permission. I taught him to look at 607 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: things like stress or signals. Are the eyes getting tired 608 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: as the dog turning away, or the lips puckering, you know, 609 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: is the mouth puckering or they're licking their lips, is 610 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: the breathing changing. And we looked at a whole bunch 611 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: of different things, but most of all, I said, you 612 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,959 Speaker 1: always go underhanded and you leave it there. Go underhanded 613 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: and you leave it there so that the dog can 614 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: tell you if it wants to come to you. Never 615 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: go over the top of the head. Number one fear 616 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: trigger for a dog is being touched around the back 617 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: of the neck. And that's that's how I got bit 618 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: on Halloween. And that's what most of us do or 619 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: would have done. So if I teach him that you 620 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: don't touch a dog without permission, and if you want 621 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: to ask permission, you go hand underneath first, and you 622 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: let the dog come to you. And even then the 623 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: dog may not want may not want you to pet it. 624 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: It may just want to sniff you and see what's 625 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: going on and so not how to teach him about patients. 626 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: And that's it, And that's actually a win for the 627 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: dog because use of smell is part of a positive 628 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: what we consider the list of positive reinforcers, and it's 629 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: such a valuable lesson. I mean, just listening to you 630 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: say that, it's like, you know, I'm I'm trying to teach. 631 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: I'll be like when he goes to someone's house, if 632 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: there's a dog there, you can ask the owner, am 633 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: I allowed to touch your pet? And if he gets 634 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: permission from an adult, then he puts his hand underhand 635 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: out calmly and just waits for the dog to come 636 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: to him. And if the dog chooses that he doesn't 637 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: want to come to you, then that's it. That's the 638 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: end of the story. It's not like, oh, that's my 639 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: cue to go run after you and put my hand 640 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: over hand over your head. Yeah, any more than we 641 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: get into a crowded room and we would say uh, 642 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: and I'd go over and close talk with people. You 643 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Right, that's exactly right. What about 644 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: for people whose kids are just afraid of dogs like 645 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: there are? Just I was a nanny for ten years 646 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: before I gave birth to um, not before I gave birth, 647 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: That is not true. For ten years before scandal. Yeah, 648 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: and I had a couple of kids who were definitely 649 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: afraid of kids and had never had an incident. But 650 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: they were the kids that when we showed up, I 651 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: had to ask the owner to please put the dog 652 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: away because it's going to ruin the plate. The kid 653 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: on babysitting is just going to have a tantrum the 654 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: whole time. What is that, Well, it's hard to say 655 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: what it's like for for kids, there's show within any 656 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: number of reasons why they're afraid. My experience has been 657 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: that if the fear is not borne out of an 658 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: actual traumatic event, and traumatic event may just be that 659 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: I that I got scared as a kid dog man. 660 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: It didn't even necessarily bite me. But most of all, 661 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: what I see is that the kids just don't know 662 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: and they haven't been taught. And so in the same 663 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: way that we want to set dogs like Roger to succeed, 664 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: we want to set the kids up, and so I 665 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: want to give the kids room for safety and integration, 666 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: give them space to observe. And if I can help 667 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:24,959 Speaker 1: a kid, I do this. I've done this with my 668 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: son and I do it with his friends. If I 669 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: can just help them watch, they start to see things differently, 670 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: and even if they don't love dogs in the future, 671 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,479 Speaker 1: it makes a little bit of space. It puts a 672 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: wedge between that fear and that possibility, and that can 673 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: make the difference, you know, for a lifetime. I have 674 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: a lot of That just means a lot to be 675 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: able to do that with kids. That's great advice because 676 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: I have seen also parents try to be like, you know, 677 00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: all come on, get over and just touch the dog. 678 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: It's fine. It's not sort of like push the kid 679 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: into their fear and push the kid into the experience 680 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: with the dog. And I I've always felt instinctually like 681 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: that is not the right choice. So it's good for 682 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: our listeners to know that if your kids are just 683 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 1: innately afraid of dogs, so maybe just be somewhere where 684 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: they can watch them, yes, you know, from afar, and 685 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: get some space around the fear. And you know, my 686 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: son has taught me that that his feelings are really 687 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: important and if I if I'm gonna squash those I 688 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: get over it, then I actually am negating his ability 689 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: to communicate with himself. And to me, that's that is 690 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: really troublesome for a parent. Tell me about this is 691 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: really scary for me. If my dog is now ten, 692 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:56,720 Speaker 1: what in the heck? For most people, toddlers or younger kids, 693 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: sometimes their first relationship with death will be an animal. Yeah, 694 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: what in the hell does one do? I'm I'm working 695 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: through it right now. Four of our five dogs are seniors. 696 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: Our oldest is fifteen. I think we've got a fifteen, thirteen, twelve, ten, 697 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,240 Speaker 1: and I know it's coming and uh, and I'm not sure. 698 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but an episode, Yeah, I think so. 699 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: And I'll share about that openly because I'm not. I 700 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: certainly don't. I don't have the answers by any stretch. Um. 701 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: I have experience, and I and it's important for me 702 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: to be transparent because if somebody can't relate to the experience, 703 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: then it's not really worth much. And I'm afraid. And 704 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: I tell my son I'm afraid, and he sees me 705 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: crying about I see my dog. In a moment, I 706 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: feel like my oldest is becoming a ghost. I literally 707 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: want to write a story called ghost Dog about him. 708 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: And I'm watching it happen, and you know, this eyesight 709 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: goes in the ear, the hearing goes, and that, you know, 710 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,240 Speaker 1: you can see the stiffness in those kind of things. 711 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: And he sees me crying and I tell him, you know, 712 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 1: he's gonna he's going to pass. But I'm not even 713 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: quite sure how to get into it beyond that. So, yeah, 714 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: I'm having a similar boat. My son is walking and 715 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: running and scootering and bicycling, and simultaneously my dog is 716 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: getting more and more arthritis, and I'm calling his name 717 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: and he's not turning his head to see me. So 718 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: he's hearing is getting less, and he has more moles 719 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: than he's ever had. You know, It's just that cycle 720 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: of life. For parents who are considering adopting, fostering, or 721 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: bringing in an animal, are their characteristics that one would 722 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: look for in a dog that would make the dog 723 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: maybe better or worse to be with young kids? Yeah, 724 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 1: there's things people will will ask me about temperament, for sure. 725 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: There are things that are They're often breed specific I 726 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: look at physical skill sets of a breed. Obviously, there's 727 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: a lot of press and positive and negative litigation around 728 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: pit bulls. For example, in Brooklyn, I have two of them, 729 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: and both of them are exception with our kid. But 730 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,879 Speaker 1: I look at the physical skill set. You know, those 731 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: are big strong there breeds that are big strong dogs 732 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: that are smart and sensitive, and they need a certain 733 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: lifestyle and that may or may not be conducive to 734 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: the way one parents. You know, there's just that. Then 735 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: people ask me about getting a hypoallergenic dogs and dogs 736 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: that bark and those kinds of things. I'm working with 737 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: a Golden Retriever. Now that's one of the more dangerous 738 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: dogs I've ever worked with. You wouldn't think that, but ever, right, 739 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: I feel like every little video I see have a 740 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: baby rolling around on an animal, it's a fucking Golden 741 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: Retriever And I'm just sitting here with my crotchety air 742 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 1: snapping wheat and terrier and I'm like, God, do you 743 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 1: have Yeah, so I don't. I don't. That's not my world. 744 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: What I think is really important is for the humans, 745 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: the parents, to get honest with themselves about why they 746 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: want a dog and what kind of dog they want 747 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: and why they want that kind of dog, because if 748 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: it's used as a salve for something else, if it's 749 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: used to to fill a void for something else, then 750 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: then it likely will become problematic because that dog is 751 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: arriving not knowing that this whole thing is going to 752 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: be put on it. And that's important, so fostering with 753 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,280 Speaker 1: reputable foster organizations. I happen to have the great privilege 754 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: to serve as an advisor to a newer rescue group 755 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: called Real Time Rescue, which I will plug shamelessly and 756 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: we will include links to that thank you. And their 757 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,800 Speaker 1: tenants are exceptional and they take responsibility from the moment 758 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: they find the dog all the way through the end, 759 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: rather than they have pulled fifty dogs from a shelter. 760 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: Can somebody give me money? You know? Like none of that. 761 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: There's there's a different sense of responsibility and transparency and 762 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 1: integrity and what they do. So it's what part of 763 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: what I encourage people to include in their conversation. Where 764 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,319 Speaker 1: is a reputable rescue and how do they work? And 765 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: tell me about their stories and really get the information 766 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: because there's a whole underside to what happens in the 767 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: rescue world, which I won't take up time here, and 768 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: saying word of mouth is really key. When I adopted 769 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: Roger at seven, I thought he was cute, a supermodel, 770 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: which he is. He was a show dog, guys, and 771 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: he was the exact breed that I grew up with. 772 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: So I put on this dog my entire childhood experience 773 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: and saw visions of me walking around with this supermodel, 774 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: the dog that I could pat on my back because 775 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,479 Speaker 1: I adopted a senior dog. Yes, but he was a supermodel. Yes, 776 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,879 Speaker 1: And this dog is nothing like the dog I grew 777 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: up with nothing, but has taught me more than I 778 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: could ever thank him for. Okay, you you've given him 779 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: a home that is nothing like the home he grew 780 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: up in. That's really quite beautiful. He does never have 781 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: to show again, that's for sure. Are Is there anything 782 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: you can tell us about this time and coronavirus and 783 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: dogs who are in shelters or things like that. Yeah, 784 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: what's happening. There's a there's a movement that's happening that 785 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: I think is quite beautiful where people are they're they're 786 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: making the extra effort to adopt dogs or to foster dogs, 787 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, short term or long term, just to keep 788 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: the dogs in need. And what we're seeing here in 789 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: l A County is that dogs that aren't severe cases 790 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: aren't going to be accepted at shelters. So there is 791 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: a huge number of dogs that that ostensibly are are 792 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: going to need to be rehomed. And for people that 793 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 1: have space and have the time, which a lot of 794 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: us do, and have the patients, this is a great 795 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: opportunity to give to something and to and to bond 796 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: and to have relationships. And keep in mind that if 797 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: you're not going to be this dogs forever person, that 798 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: it's not enough just to spoil the dog until that 799 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: dog lands in another home, because that dog is learning 800 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: from you right now what it needs to do to 801 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: be able to go out and have a place in 802 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,839 Speaker 1: the world where it belongs and where it can stay. Yeah, 803 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: I've been seeing that a lot on social media, people 804 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: saying this is a great time to foster a pet. 805 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: But that's a really good point. It's like, Okay, don't 806 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: take in this foster dog for three weeks and like 807 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 1: give it eight thousand treats and and a reality that 808 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: will not be true at the end of it, but 809 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 1: I can say as a dog owner during this time, 810 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: I feel very grateful to have a dog. I keep 811 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 1: having recollections of the other big things in my life 812 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: that were global, and one of them being nine eleven, 813 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: and I I remember all of those emotional support dogs 814 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 1: being around, and I can say that this is I'm 815 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: really happy that I have my dog, and just being 816 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: able to pet him puts me in the present moment 817 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: and can be a lovely release from all of the 818 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 1: stress going on right now. So for people who are 819 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: looking into fostering right now and looking for some companion, 820 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,280 Speaker 1: maybe you live alone and you're lonely, or your family's 821 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,720 Speaker 1: far away and you're quarantined in a different, far away 822 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,439 Speaker 1: city like it could be a great opportunity. And Real 823 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: Time Rescue Real Time Rescue is a great organization that 824 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: I work with that I get to serve as an 825 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,760 Speaker 1: advisor on and you contact them Real Time Rescue Inc. 826 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 1: At gmail dot com, Real Time Rescue on Instagram and Facebook, 827 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,879 Speaker 1: and they can hook you up with dogs or hook 828 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,719 Speaker 1: you up with people that have dogs. This is amazing. 829 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: Any last bits of wisdom, plugs tell us where listeners 830 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: can find you, and just listen to your energy about 831 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: dogs and family life. Thank you. The so our website 832 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: is the Zen dog dot Com. I love to have 833 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: people follow us on Facebook, the Zen Dog l A, Instagram, 834 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: the Zen Dog l A and there's a lot of 835 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 1: information on our website. We have a document call to 836 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: Hope for help because now that we have a global reach, 837 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: I think our show is in maybe twenty countries at 838 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,719 Speaker 1: this point, and it's it's been remarkable to feedback and 839 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 1: obviously we can't help everybody, and I want to be 840 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 1: intentional and responsible about how we can help. We have 841 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,919 Speaker 1: a lot of information on the website to at least 842 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: begin the conversation for people between themselves and their dogs. 843 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 1: And uh, I think the art of consideration is really 844 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. This whole thing is consideration. There's 845 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 1: something that I don't know about this dog or myself 846 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,879 Speaker 1: for this moment, the knowing of which would change our experience. 847 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 1: And if I stay open, if we look at the logo, 848 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: the logo is open ended, the circles open ended, because 849 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,879 Speaker 1: there's always more I don't know. And if you look 850 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: at the pad and the logos, I'm trying to do 851 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,280 Speaker 1: this backwards in the camera, the pad of the logos 852 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 1: is sitting Buddha. And that's not for religious purposes. That's 853 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 1: just to remind me that the center of what I 854 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,919 Speaker 1: do is about being quiet and paying attention. And when 855 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: I slip, it's usually because I stopped considering things ego, 856 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,840 Speaker 1: in patience, whatever it was. But if I start to 857 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,799 Speaker 1: make it about me, it's going to go south. And 858 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,840 Speaker 1: this is the Zen Dog logo. Yeah, this is the Zendo. 859 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,279 Speaker 1: And I just feel like with or without pets, if 860 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,759 Speaker 1: you are people that have pets, don't have pets, have 861 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: aggressive pets, have pets that aren't aggressive. I think we 862 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: should all just spend a nice week retreat at the 863 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,879 Speaker 1: Zen Dog Love to. That's that our five year plan 864 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 1: I got. I've been a whole master thing where you 865 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 1: could come spend a weekend in a in a cabin 866 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,080 Speaker 1: at the back part of a huge problem. We will integrate. 867 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: You're telling you come on This sounds like heaven on Earth. 868 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,879 Speaker 1: Are there any last bits of advice you could give 869 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,319 Speaker 1: for parents that are either about to bring a baby 870 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 1: home into a household that has a dog, or people 871 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,439 Speaker 1: that are looking to get a dog. I think, don't 872 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 1: do it alone. Don't do it alone. There's there's an 873 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: immediate sense of isolation if you're not already in it 874 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,839 Speaker 1: when you're expecting and your bed bound and those kinds 875 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: of things. Don't do it alone and get get appropriate 876 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,200 Speaker 1: help and keep talking to people you know there. There's 877 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 1: there's so much wisdom out there and information and great 878 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 1: science and uh and there's mastery out there. But most 879 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,920 Speaker 1: of all, don't do it alone. And I think second 880 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,359 Speaker 1: to that which I am right now learning in my 881 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 1: life is be a little bit easier on yourself in 882 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,319 Speaker 1: the moment. Love that. See guys, Matt Bisner's Zen Dog. 883 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,360 Speaker 1: You think it's going to be about your dog dog, 884 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 1: And this is the funny thing, it's about you. Am 885 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,919 Speaker 1: I right inspect If you make it about the dog, 886 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: you'll definitely become about you. Matt, thank you so much 887 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,239 Speaker 1: for being on Katie's crib. You are a gem. I 888 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,399 Speaker 1: Roger thanks you, Adam, and I thank you endlessly. I'll 889 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: be thanks you endlessly. Thank you. Thanks for letting me 890 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:27,960 Speaker 1: be part of your family and give them all my 891 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: best appropriate affection. You will. I hope you guys learned 892 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,959 Speaker 1: so much about having a dog and having that part 893 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: of your evolving family. I know Matt was so helpful 894 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,280 Speaker 1: to me in the time where I needed it most, 895 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: and it meant a lot to me to be able 896 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 1: to share him with you guys. So thank you for 897 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 1: tuning into Katie's Crib and I would love to hear 898 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 1: from you guys so we can continue navigating this mama 899 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: thing together. Email me at Katie's Crib at shamaland dot com. 900 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: You guys are incredible. I am so thankful to have 901 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 1: you in my tribe. Love you, love you, love you. 902 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 1: Get some sleep again. Katie's Crib is a production of 903 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For 904 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, visit the I Heart 905 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 906 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:27,400 Speaker 1: favorite shows coming for I Want You Want to Watch