Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Dutton Zaren Burnette.
Speaker 1: So good to see you, really good to see you.
Speaker 2: I've been good. That's great. I got a question for you.
Speaker 2: Do you know it's ridiculous?
Speaker 1: Oh heavens, do I listen? Valentine's Day is ridiculous? Oh
Speaker 1: don't you think?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think it's like a garbage day.
Speaker 2: What is even the story of that one? Really? Saint
Speaker 2: Valentine like shot someone in the heart with an arrow
Speaker 2: and we all celebrate. What is the real story?
Speaker 1: Did you know he's the patron saint of lovers?
Speaker 2: Yes? I did know that, Eliabeth, I did. Okay, Epleptics, No,
Speaker 2: I did not know that one. And Beekeepers I did
Speaker 2: not know that one either. Right.
Speaker 1: But see that's I'm saying Valentine's date. But we're not
Speaker 1: here for Saint Valentine. We're just gonna go somewhere different
Speaker 1: with Valentine's state. Okay, we got a hot tip from
Speaker 1: Instagram friend Sophia Techno.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you Sophia tech.
Speaker 1: Now, oh she's the best. She passed along, are they?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Sophia Techno passed along a really terrifying company.
Speaker 1: It's called manly Man. Manly Man. Yeah, they're tough. It
Speaker 1: said his love language, cured meat God. So basically it's
Speaker 1: a beef jerky company.
Speaker 2: I like that just as an adjective. This is a
Speaker 2: beef jerky company. It's like it's Mickey Mouse. It's beef jerky.
Speaker 1: So they sell jerked beef and they have meat hearts,
Speaker 1: which are like you know those candy hearts.
Speaker 2: I know it. Beef hearts aren't.
Speaker 1: Well, it's me meat hearts and they're heart shaped and
Speaker 1: it says stuff like XO XO love. Some say beefmine
Speaker 1: Hello the hearts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's there's jerky, but it's meat yeah, looks
Speaker 2: oh god.
Speaker 1: So some of them say you plus me, meet me, okay,
Speaker 1: but then there's naughty hearts.
Speaker 2: They meet me was not naughty meat hearts? What's the noughty?
Speaker 2: Can you give me an example?
Speaker 1: I'm trying to look, and it's like they won't show
Speaker 1: pictures of the naughty. Oh wait, it says hot, wild, spicy,
Speaker 1: eat me sexy, and then a devil emoji. Anyway, So
Speaker 1: they have all these Valentine's Day gifts for men because
Speaker 1: most men apparently only eat meat and not chocolate. They
Speaker 1: sell beef jerky flowers, so you can do a bouquet
Speaker 1: of beef jerky.
Speaker 2: Flowers edible arrangement essentially quote.
Speaker 1: Most of our manly gift sets are available in three
Speaker 1: different versions, gift boxes, ammo can gift baskets and tactical
Speaker 1: Christmas stocking kits. EAT are based on different themes and
Speaker 1: include products both curated through a thoughtful selection process and
Speaker 1: custom designed at our headquarters located in sunny southern California.
Speaker 1: This is so Orange County. I can't take it. There's
Speaker 1: a bloody Mary gift set, bacon scented gift wrapping paper.
Speaker 1: This is edible greeting cards like they write on beef jerky. Oh,
Speaker 1: and the whole thing is just like fragile, toxic masculinity.
Speaker 1: But aside from that, Zaren, maybe if you're good, Saint
Speaker 1: Valentine will give you some beef.
Speaker 2: He'll meet me something.
Speaker 1: Will yeah, spicy anyway, sorry about that. I'm just going
Speaker 1: that was a long daddy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was ridiculous though, Thank you, Elizabeth. I know
Speaker 2: as a California native.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, I love to talk about that. I'm
Speaker 1: like the Anthony Kias over here.
Speaker 2: We're going to test that today. You know that Ronald
Speaker 2: Reagan was once the governor of this great state? Oh man, yes,
Speaker 2: but you may not know this next one. Did you
Speaker 2: know that when Ronald Reagan was sworn in as governor
Speaker 2: of California in nineteen sixty seven, Yes, he scheduled his
Speaker 2: inauguration to occur exactly at twelve ten am.
Speaker 1: What like, right after midnight?
Speaker 2: Why would Ronnie Reagan want to become governor at exactly
Speaker 2: ten past midnight? I don't know, great question, Elizabeth. Well,
Speaker 2: because at that precise moment, Jupiter would be at its zenith.
Speaker 1: Wait are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: And as any good occultists can tell you, Jupiter is
Speaker 2: the symbol for kings. But not only that, Elizabeth, Jupiter
Speaker 2: is also the zodiacal symbol for fame and prosperity, all
Speaker 2: things governors desire.
Speaker 1: And boys go to Jupiter to get stupider. Exactly midnight,
Speaker 1: it was Wait, that's what he inaugurated? What?
Speaker 2: Yes, this is all true story. If you asked the
Speaker 2: newly elected governor's executive secretary that night, he would have
Speaker 2: told you, as he told reporters at the time, Governor
Speaker 2: Reagan quote is not guided by the stars, nor do
Speaker 2: we intend to have stargazers in the administration. He was
Speaker 2: lying they had stargazers in the administration anyway. But if
Speaker 2: you asked the newly elected governor's wife, she would have
Speaker 2: told you, oh that that was my idea, because Ronnie
Speaker 2: and I are we're down with the mysticism. Not a
Speaker 2: direct quote, but that woman, of course was Nancy.
Speaker 1: Reagan and nance Okay.
Speaker 2: Get ready for a wild one.
Speaker 3: Oh boy, this is Ridiculous Crime a podcast about absurd
Speaker 3: and outrageous capers, heists and cons It's always ninety nine
Speaker 3: percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Sure, Nancy Reagan, Yeah, all right. Now, these days you
Speaker 2: see her get mentioned from time to time on social media,
Speaker 2: usually for what she did as a First Lady of
Speaker 2: the United States. Either you know about like the just
Speaker 2: Say No drug wearing his campaign, she did sit on
Speaker 2: lap she did for a Christmas photo. Very yeah, he
Speaker 2: puts he was a Santa and she was I think
Speaker 2: miss Elf. She was an elf.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, these days you'll read also read online about how apparently,
Speaker 2: back in her Hollywood days, the former First Lady was
Speaker 2: rumored to be quite a crowd pleaser, Elizabeth. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: not just says an act, more of a people pleaser.
Speaker 1: One might say, yeah, a little bit saucy.
Speaker 2: She liked a party.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in like risk ways.
Speaker 2: She was a goat.
Speaker 1: Yes, I am. I have a relative who was sort
Speaker 1: of in the circles Pasadena kind of like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that whole like wild like uh, astronomers in Hollywood,
Speaker 2: people getting into sex parties them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she knew the Reagans. I mean, this isn't like
Speaker 1: a contemporary of mine. It's she's long deceased, but like
Speaker 1: she's amazing, sounds amazing, And she knew them, and she's
Speaker 1: always like, they're freaks. They are freaky deaky. Now I'm
Speaker 1: like ten, being like tell me, tell me everything, and
Speaker 1: she's like they are one for No, she didn't tell me.
Speaker 2: She told them all, Oh okay, you're just like listening
Speaker 2: around the corner. Yeah, I'm like, what, what's a freak?
Speaker 2: You're looking up freaks? You just shut down, you're more confused.
Speaker 1: She got down with a lot of fellas.
Speaker 2: Yes, Nancy, yeah, not your no, no, no, no, no, of course, Now, Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: The thing to know about Nancy Reagan is she was
Speaker 2: always crazy cunning, a true operator, as this story will
Speaker 2: in particular go to show, she was also the real
Speaker 2: power behind the throne. Right, that's not a lot of
Speaker 2: people know that. It's not a big secret, but we'll
Speaker 2: get into that anyway. To keep them hold that power
Speaker 2: for her and Ronnie, Nancy relied on a cadre of
Speaker 2: psychics and astrologers. In fact, Nancy Reagan let astrologers decide
Speaker 2: American foreign policy. Amazing, Yeah, because that same policy that
Speaker 2: her husband as the president would then make real because
Speaker 2: he listened to her and she listened.
Speaker 1: To the astrology, and then everyone listens to him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get into all that, but first, let's go
Speaker 2: back in time. You're gonna go, yeah, do you want
Speaker 2: to do a Huey Lewis Esse.
Speaker 1: Do you know my first concert that I ever saw
Speaker 1: was Huey Lewis State Fair Calexville's amazing, He's incredible.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Yes, could you give us a little
Speaker 2: Huey Lewis Sands the News?
Speaker 1: UHM, gonna go back.
Speaker 2: Well, Huey Lewis Sands the News Right, Well, I was
Speaker 2: just you know, calling him up for the eighties of
Speaker 2: it all. They're back in time. But anyway, Ronald Reagan,
Speaker 2: what was that all about? Right? Who knows you remember
Speaker 2: how they called each other mommy and daddy? Yes, right,
Speaker 2: that's kind of what you're saying with the freaky right.
Speaker 2: I always thought that was eerie. Anyway, I'm going to
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call everybody Mommy, Andy, just anybody.
Speaker 2: I think it's cool. Like I like you. You earned it.
Speaker 2: I saw you've been across the bar Mommy and Daddy.
Speaker 1: Continue Mommy, okay.
Speaker 2: Anyway. The year's nineteen forty seven. Ronald Reagan's movie career
Speaker 2: has been sidelined by World War Two. The star of
Speaker 2: New Rockney All American aka Win One for the Gipper, right,
Speaker 2: that guy? That was his biggest hit, by the way,
Speaker 2: but that was back in nineteen forty, so now he's
Speaker 2: seven years past that. He's not been getting parts after
Speaker 2: the war. In total, I don't know if you know this,
Speaker 2: Reagan was in fifty three films really. His last film
Speaker 2: was The Killers. Anyways, At this point is stalling, Reagan
Speaker 2: decides I'm gonna run for office. He's elected to be
Speaker 2: the president of SAG YEP Screen Actors Guild March tenth,
Speaker 2: nineteen forty seven. Now in April, he's interviewed by the
Speaker 2: FBI and he supplies the agents with a list of
Speaker 2: suspected communists and Communist sympathizers in Hollywood. Right now, here's
Speaker 2: a little Tinseltown history for you, Elizabeth. The Hollywood Blacklist
Speaker 2: was created under Reagan's presidency of SAG. Yeah, in October
Speaker 2: of that same year, forty seven. He had known commed
Speaker 2: hater Walt Disney. They like tag team together, and they
Speaker 2: went to Washington and appeared before the House un American
Speaker 2: Activities Committee, which were the first They were the first
Speaker 2: witnesses in the hearings that would eventually give us the
Speaker 2: Hollywood Blacklist and the Red Scare.
Speaker 1: And destroy careers of geniuses.
Speaker 2: But yeah, completely, and when it was Reagan's turn, he
Speaker 2: sang like a bird. Reagan took their stand. He named names,
Speaker 2: and I mean he was like a phone book just
Speaker 2: spitting out names.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: He was like he named friends, co workers on film sets,
Speaker 2: anyone he suspected being likely communists.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Like that's the thing is that it was
Speaker 1: just even if he had a whiff, it's not like
Speaker 1: he suspected the actual party.
Speaker 2: They don't have like a picture of their card you know,
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, he's a card carrying communist. No, it's
Speaker 2: just like he.
Speaker 1: Smokes clothes, cigarettes and suspicious.
Speaker 2: He likes too many German expressionist films. I think he's
Speaker 2: a communist Anyway, big moment in the beginning of the
Speaker 2: wave would be called Red Scare. Okay, Reagan plays his part.
Speaker 2: This turn by the Reagan into becoming an anti commi
Speaker 2: witch hunter. This caused tensions with his wife at the time,
Speaker 2: actress Jane Wyman, and the two prepaired divorced. Now, this
Speaker 2: was about when Ronald Reagan made his big switch from
Speaker 2: being a Democrat who had backed Truman in forty eight
Speaker 2: and once called Roosevelt a true hero. Right, he becomes
Speaker 2: an Eisenhower Republican in fifty two. Yeah, just switch a road. Now,
Speaker 2: there was another big change in his life around this
Speaker 2: same time. Well, Reagan was president of SAG. This young
Speaker 2: actress came calling upon him. Right, the year was nineteen
Speaker 2: forty nine. The actress was named Nancy Davis. Can you
Speaker 2: guess why Nancy Davis first came into Ronald's office that
Speaker 2: day when he was SAG president?
Speaker 1: Like you, Susponso.
Speaker 2: Is the chimp in the office. Excuse she was worried
Speaker 2: about her name appearing on a list of communist sympathizers. Oh,
Speaker 2: but it's not what you would suspect, Elizabeth. It turns
Speaker 2: out the suspected comedy was a different Nancy Davis, and
Speaker 2: she's like, I don't want that girl getting my career
Speaker 2: all messed up.
Speaker 1: She's like, let's change my name by you marrying me.
Speaker 2: Exactly simplified things now, just as sure as Quentin Tarantina
Speaker 2: Love's feet. Nancy Reagan was no comy, right, but she
Speaker 2: was single and the two hit it off. Nancy was
Speaker 2: twenty eight, Ronnie was thirty eight, and then, obviously, she
Speaker 2: married Ronnie. She becomes Nancy Reagan now. According to her biographer,
Speaker 2: Nancy had been scheming for months about how she get
Speaker 2: into Ronnie's pants. Right. She finessed it so she felt
Speaker 2: she had to now lock it down and make him
Speaker 2: put a ring on it. Nancy's plan work breage brilliantly
Speaker 2: he did, and she had more plans, many many more
Speaker 2: plans for him. Right now, let's get forward again. This
Speaker 2: year is now nineteen fifty three. For it, we've gone
Speaker 2: four years forward. Right. The name Reagan is now practically
Speaker 2: mud in Hollywood. He's not only not getting parts of Reagan.
Speaker 2: At this point, the name Reagan wouldn't even get you
Speaker 2: like a a table to Brown Derby. Right, he's just
Speaker 2: like falling off. Ronald Reagan was on his way to
Speaker 2: officially becoming a has been B movie actors right. Right
Speaker 2: by this point, he's making mostly forgettable westerns. He's already
Speaker 2: made his classic man in a Chimp movie, Bedtime for Bonzo.
Speaker 2: That's in the past. Right at this point, he's he's
Speaker 2: making B movies with the titles like quote, She's working
Speaker 2: her way through college.
Speaker 1: That was the name of the movie.
Speaker 2: That was the name of the title. Trust me, that
Speaker 2: title makes the flick sound far more interesting than it was.
Speaker 1: It's like, legitimately just like a cinema verite, a lady.
Speaker 2: Working her way through college. Anyway, year nineteen fifty three,
Speaker 2: Eisenhower's president. We're in a very staid time in America.
Speaker 2: Reagan is forty two years old, and he's looking around
Speaker 2: for what's he gonna do. You know, if big time,
Speaker 2: like lasting Hollywood fame was gonna happen, it would have
Speaker 2: happened by now. He knows that ship is saled, so
Speaker 2: he's willing to face the writing on the wall. He
Speaker 2: has to come up with a new Reagan. Reagan, also,
Speaker 2: mind you, was deeply in debt. He's got a Malibu
Speaker 2: ranch cost him eighty five thousand dollars. He's got another
Speaker 2: eighteen grand and assorted debts all told, that's one hundred
Speaker 2: and three thousand dollars. I know you like the translation,
Speaker 2: give it to me one point two million in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four dollars.
Speaker 1: That's not good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's one point two million in debt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like, imagine what a Malibu ranch. What does
Speaker 1: the Malibu ranch go for today?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, it's like fifty million dollar proper.
Speaker 2: It would be ridiculous. Yeah, you know he got in early.
Speaker 2: He got in good.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, the dude also has responsibilities. His divorce from Jane
Speaker 2: Wyman's left him paying five hundred month in child support.
Speaker 2: He's got a new baby with his wife Nancy. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I remember, as I said, he's not getting cast much.
Speaker 2: So Reagan's income is basically coming from whatever roles he
Speaker 2: can get from one off appearances on TV shows or
Speaker 2: personal appearances for corporations like he's doing as he's doing
Speaker 2: trade shows ads like conventions. Right, So Reagan's talent agency
Speaker 2: is still a big time agency. It's MCA Lou Wasserman's
Speaker 2: old place. His agents tell Reagan they got a new
Speaker 2: gig for him right now. It would be a show Well,
Speaker 2: it's in a show room, right, and then it's in
Speaker 2: the newly made pleasure Oasis in the desert Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: They're looking to bring in like, you know, Hollywood types,
Speaker 2: recognizable faces from TV to impress the tourists and make them,
Speaker 2: you know, give a little touch of glamour Hollywood. Who, right,
Speaker 2: come on, what do you think Reagan? Regan's I don't know,
Speaker 2: is there maybe he kind of thinking about it, know
Speaker 2: what he wants to do now. They thought Reagan would
Speaker 2: just do absolutely fine as a touch of Hollywood, because
Speaker 2: that's basically what his career is, a touch of Hollywood. Now.
Speaker 2: He is recognizable, but he's not a big star. People
Speaker 2: know him. So his agents they know he needs the money.
Speaker 2: So they're like, Regan, come on, let's take it. He's like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, he's not the ideal career move right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's nineteen fifty three. Vegas at this point is still
Speaker 2: the sticks.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: He's making Vegas into what we know. It's not even like,
Speaker 2: you know Sinatra at nineteen sixty Yeah, nobody exactly right.
Speaker 1: So this is like when Fremont Street was completely downtown?
Speaker 2: Is the scene? Right? So the Frontier, the casino, The
Speaker 2: Frontier offered Reagan a bunch of money to come out
Speaker 2: there because they know he didn't want to come, so
Speaker 2: they gave him thirty thousand dollars for two weeks.
Speaker 1: In their show in the in those days, that's three.
Speaker 2: Hundred and forty two thousand dollars in twenty twenty four
Speaker 2: money for two weeks work for Ronald Reagan. He's like,
Speaker 2: Reagan's like, let me think about it.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: He's like, let me think about He goes on to Nancy.
Speaker 1: They discussed, Oh, I can imagine she's right.
Speaker 2: She's like, she's not totally into it, but she likes
Speaker 2: the numbers, like that was a big number, all right.
Speaker 2: So they decided they need to follow the advice of
Speaker 2: someone they can trust to help them make these decisions.
Speaker 2: So they turned to Hollywood astrologer Carol Wrider. Oh boy, Now,
Speaker 2: at the time, he had an astrology column in the
Speaker 2: La Times. So the Reagans they flipped through the La
Speaker 2: Times and they found Carol Writer's zodiac breakdown. His horoscope
Speaker 2: on the day for Reagan's horoscope was this is a
Speaker 2: day to listen to the advice of experts. So He's like,
Speaker 2: my agents are experts. I'm taking the job. So Reagan says, yes, Wow,
Speaker 2: you listened to his agent MCA and the.
Speaker 1: Horoscope toty three thousand.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Now, that one choice, it was not made by him,
Speaker 2: radically changed his fortunes and the future of America. Two
Speaker 2: years later, Reagan gets a new gig hosting the General
Speaker 2: Electric Theater, which is on TV for the next decade.
Speaker 2: Is that consistent fame to basically plan his next move
Speaker 2: a political career. Soon enough, Reagan's elected the governor of California,
Speaker 2: and both Ronnie and Nancy credited the zodiac and the
Speaker 2: newspaper Psychic for guiding their fate. Exactly. That's when he
Speaker 2: took power as governor. There was that whole Jupiter is
Speaker 2: ascending an event because now they're locked into this lifestyle. Okay,
Speaker 2: now that we laid down our star crossed foundation, Elizabeth,
Speaker 2: let's take a break and when we get back I'll
Speaker 2: tell you all about the psychic that shadow ran the
Speaker 2: Reagan White House. And we're back Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: Hey, how are you all right?
Speaker 2: So we're talking mommy and Daddy, Yes, Ronnie and Nancy.
Speaker 1: Yes. Father.
Speaker 2: It's like a really different Nancy's story. Okay. Over the years,
Speaker 2: after he had guided.
Speaker 1: Them, imagining her like all smeared like coal eyeliners, blood hair,
Speaker 1: like what do you.
Speaker 2: Call baby pin through the nose to Okay, Ever, the years, uh,
Speaker 2: what's his name? Carol Writer? Right, he'd been guiding them
Speaker 2: from his newspaper column, and Nancy Reagan eventually initiates a
Speaker 2: close personal relationship with this Hollywood astrologer to the stars
Speaker 2: Carol Writer. And by the way, this guy is a
Speaker 2: flamboyantly gay man, Okay, like just flamboyant as flamboyant can be.
Speaker 2: And somehow this didn't bother the wagons back then when
Speaker 2: they needed his help. I guess it was like Hollywood hairdressers.
Speaker 1: He's playing roles for.
Speaker 2: Men to be gay if they could, you know, style
Speaker 2: your hair to divine the stars.
Speaker 1: And in that situation, and I think it carries out
Speaker 1: in some communities to this day that if you have
Speaker 1: like if you play a certain role, like you're saying
Speaker 1: a hairdresser or an astrologer.
Speaker 2: What did they prescribe for it?
Speaker 1: But you have to be you can be flamboyant, but
Speaker 1: they have to be kind of sexless. Definitely say yes,
Speaker 1: I don't want to you know, they don't want to
Speaker 1: see them like in a relationship or living their life.
Speaker 1: It's really weird. Yeah, I know what you mean with
Speaker 1: that whole scene.
Speaker 2: So that seen they were cool with it. Then apparently anyway,
Speaker 2: Nancy Reagan, what was that all about? What she like? Okay,
Speaker 2: Nancy Reagan back when she was Nancy Davis was a
Speaker 2: total trooper, and I mean like an actress, like she
Speaker 2: was showfolk, the daughter of show folks. Oh really yeah,
Speaker 2: her mother was an actress and her mother helped her
Speaker 2: secure a future in Hollywood. So Nancy Reagan, you know,
Speaker 2: she took care of the rest. She was always a
Speaker 2: shrewd personality. And but she and Ronnie they were, as
Speaker 2: I said, a peculiar couple. And as you know, those
Speaker 2: close to them they say that they as you pointed out,
Speaker 2: and they're kind of freaky. They adored each other in
Speaker 2: more white terms, right, I told you they call each
Speaker 2: other mommy and daddy. But they were also apparently super
Speaker 2: horny for each other, like when they were always down
Speaker 2: for PDA, like the heavy petting in the Oval office.
Speaker 2: Years later, like when they're like, you know, kind of
Speaker 2: wrinkled and old. The White House Doctor said quote, I
Speaker 2: feel like I was a kid watching a sister necking
Speaker 2: on the couch with her boyfriend. Oh my god, you're
Speaker 2: welcome for that visual.
Speaker 1: I'm like shuddering. But I'm also kind of like proud
Speaker 1: of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, call him super prouder. I might get it, you know,
Speaker 2: like I want him like lick smacking each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just like they She takes some beef jerky
Speaker 1: in her mouth and she leans over and he receives it.
Speaker 2: Yes, so sweet, and then like as that to the
Speaker 2: jelly beans in his mouth already she like bird fed
Speaker 2: to him.
Speaker 1: She chews up the jelly bellies and choose them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah exactly. They're still warm but half cheered. He
Speaker 2: likes to suck out anyway. Are you trying?
Speaker 1: It can't happen?
Speaker 2: We all rad it, Carol writer, what's up with that guy?
Speaker 2: Why did the Reagans love him so much? Great question?
Speaker 1: I learn more about him.
Speaker 2: Now, as I said, dude was a newspaper astrologer, but
Speaker 2: he was also a personal fortune teller of fabulous psychic
Speaker 2: to the stars. He'd first been recognized as a boy
Speaker 2: having psychic powers by a renowned astrologer named Evangeline Adams,
Speaker 2: who we should do a story about it. Anyway. She
Speaker 2: was a curious one. It was illegal for her to
Speaker 2: be like a psychic and astrologer in New York at
Speaker 2: the time. This is the Madam x era of like
Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties. She was like writing astrology books. The
Speaker 2: ghost writer for her books on astrology was a young
Speaker 2: Aleister Crowley. No, yeah, she was about about it.
Speaker 1: Well, you know what's weird again, We've done this for
Speaker 1: a few weeks in a row now and I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how this is happening. I'm talking about a Hollywood
Speaker 1: psychic really yeah.
Speaker 2: On Thursday, so we don't tell each other our stars.
Speaker 1: Its like keeps happening of like compendium. I'm sorry, this
Speaker 1: is just I'm kind of I can't process this. This
Speaker 1: is really weird. It's in the stars totally.
Speaker 2: We're in sync, I guess, yeah, like college roommates.
Speaker 1: Like we were now in the band in sink.
Speaker 2: Exactly now, as I said Carol Ryder, when he was fourteen,
Speaker 2: the famous astrologer of Angeline Adams, she told him you
Speaker 2: have great powers, right, and he he's like, oh you
Speaker 2: think so he doesn't listen to her. He's like, that's cool,
Speaker 2: that's neat. But he was like, you know, like I
Speaker 2: would have run away and joined the circus, right. He
Speaker 2: was like, no, I'm going to go become a.
Speaker 1: Lawyer, so I want powers. I want psychic powers.
Speaker 2: Totally.
Speaker 1: That'd be down right, totally want that.
Speaker 2: He went the other way. We kind of denied him.
Speaker 2: He went to U Penn. He gets a law degree,
Speaker 2: he gets a job as a lawyer in a big
Speaker 2: Philadelphia firm, and then he finds he hated it. He's like,
Speaker 2: this is hello, Oh not for Carol Ryder. So he
Speaker 2: did what you would counsel a little to do, Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: He quit nice.
Speaker 2: Yes, he threw up his deuces and walked down.
Speaker 1: I love quitting jobs.
Speaker 2: He would have made you feel real proud with this,
Speaker 2: because next he started feeding the poor. That was his
Speaker 2: mission was. It was the Great Depression at this point
Speaker 2: in early nineteen thirties, and there was plenty of hungry
Speaker 2: mouths to feet and he's like, I used to be
Speaker 2: a lawyer. I got a little coin in my pocket.
Speaker 2: And so he goes around feeding the homeless and the forgotten.
Speaker 2: So around this time, this is when Carol decides he's
Speaker 2: going to get into astrology full stop. Right, he starts
Speaker 2: reading people's horoscopes. He embraces his powers, but soon, since
Speaker 2: it is the Great Depression, he mostly starts to get in,
Speaker 2: focusing on helping forgotten men get jobs. Oh wow, right,
Speaker 2: he's not even like over there like enriching his pocket.
Speaker 2: He's like, I can get you a job. Go down
Speaker 2: to and he puts his fingers to his head and
Speaker 2: he's like the stockyards and talk to a man named
Speaker 2: Larry or whatever.
Speaker 1: Right, there's a man there with a mustache.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so big walrus mustache. Tell him you're from Brooklyn,
Speaker 2: so out of nowhere. He receives this crazy news from
Speaker 2: his doctor. Right, he has a pain in his back
Speaker 2: that won't go away, so he visits a doctor. The
Speaker 2: doctor tells him he has six months to live, and
Speaker 2: he's like, I did not see this coming. What kind
Speaker 2: of powers are these? Anyway, Carol writer freaks out, but
Speaker 2: rather than give in to despair. What does he do?
Speaker 2: He decides, uh, I know what to do. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: read my own horoscope. So he goes to see he
Speaker 2: is a doctor, right, and the stars inform him that
Speaker 2: he just needs to relocate, and he's like, I knew it.
Speaker 2: So he goes west.
Speaker 1: What was it like a parasitic twin.
Speaker 2: That's your guests, the parasitic.
Speaker 1: Anytime anyone's like my back hurts, I'm like you probably twin.
Speaker 2: That sounds like parasitic twin.
Speaker 1: Got a calcified parasitic twin in there.
Speaker 2: You got like your little baby brother inside you. He's
Speaker 2: all he's all bone now. Anyway, he goes out there
Speaker 2: and he finds quote physical protection in the Southwest, just
Speaker 2: like the stars in his horoscope had told him.
Speaker 1: Did he go to Sedona?
Speaker 2: No, he went to La. Oh yeah, he ignored his doctor,
Speaker 2: listened to the stars, moves out to La.
Speaker 1: You know what, that's what you gotta do. Sometimes.
Speaker 2: He arrives just in time for the Golden age of Hollywood.
Speaker 2: It's such a good time in the great era of
Speaker 2: studios and Darlot's and like, I don't know, party scenes.
Speaker 2: It was great for Carol writer. Somebody who's fabulous and
Speaker 2: looking to be fabulous for money, right, So the studio
Speaker 2: bosses and the Hollywood power brokers and a lot of
Speaker 2: the actors, the actresses, they're big believers in the occult.
Speaker 2: They love this stuff. So they love you know, they
Speaker 2: love stars out there, Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Carol writer, he finds a happy home
Speaker 2: in Hollywood. He works his way into the Hollywood crowd.
Speaker 2: His big debut as an astrologer to the stars took
Speaker 2: place at Charlie Chaplin's house. He goes to a Charlie
Speaker 2: Chaplin party and just starts reading people's cards and stuff,
Speaker 2: and they're like, this guy's amazing, and everyone's like super
Speaker 2: into it. Anyway, from then on, he's got all the
Speaker 2: Hollywood glitterati around him. They all eager for him to
Speaker 2: come to their parties or for them to go to his.
Speaker 2: So he has I'm talking stars like Clark Gable, Tyrone Power,
Speaker 2: Marlene Dietrich, Betty Grabil, Hetty.
Speaker 1: Lamar personal amazing.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I total a friend of the show, Hetty Lamar,
Speaker 2: great girl, Greg Gal, I love her. Anyway, Apparently this guy,
Speaker 2: he threw incredible parties. As I said, Soares really so imagine, like, well,
Speaker 2: you don't have to imagine. I found one account of
Speaker 2: one of his parties, the Reagan biographer Kitty Kelly. She
Speaker 2: recorded the details of a Carol Ryder party at his
Speaker 2: Hollywood Hills home, and I quote fish were swimming around
Speaker 2: in his pool. For the Pisces party, he rented a
Speaker 2: live lion for my Leo party, and he lined up
Speaker 2: sets of twins for the Gemini party. He served astrologically
Speaker 2: appropriate food such as meat and potatoes for moon children,
Speaker 2: lemon pie for the tart tastes of aries people, and
Speaker 2: hot red peppers for passionate scorpios.
Speaker 1: Oh, I want his life. I want psychic powers, which
Speaker 1: would be amazing. Seriously, I would love.
Speaker 2: That wanding around in a I want to wear a momoo.
Speaker 1: And throw lavish parties. Guy, I love lavish parties them.
Speaker 1: I like throwing and to go back in time and
Speaker 1: live in that time in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, totally. It's a good time, very simple in
Speaker 2: some areas.
Speaker 1: I'd just like to imagine what it looks like pre development,
Speaker 1: very burgeoning development of things. Well, you know, there's slice
Speaker 1: and Ladies open black dalliole Oh.
Speaker 2: Nancy Reagan, she was a Carol Writer superfan. Right, so
Speaker 2: she attended his weekly Tuesday night astrology class. Yes, their
Speaker 2: relationship blossomed into a full on like Fengali deal.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Okay, he was the Reagans like therapist, their marriage counselor
Speaker 2: their love coach, their life coach, their everything. Right, So,
Speaker 2: following his advice, he coached them right into the California
Speaker 2: Governor's mansion in nineteen sixty seven. He's amazing and this
Speaker 2: was noted by others. This wasn't like a big secret
Speaker 2: because Time magazine took note, because two years later they
Speaker 2: put him on the cover of Time magazine and announced
Speaker 2: it with the headline Astrology and the New Cult of
Speaker 2: the Occult.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they were about about it. So the article
Speaker 2: mentioned how writer, no longer young, had still attended to
Speaker 2: as many personal clients as Time article noted, quote, the
Speaker 2: phone rings constantly and writer spends much of his time
Speaker 2: in a soft voiced swivet of ooh, moonchild, I'm happy
Speaker 2: to tell you that this is a very good day
Speaker 2: for you. So that's what he was doing towards, you know,
Speaker 2: his golden years. Right after this same man was able
Speaker 2: to guide the Reagans to power. Once the couple were
Speaker 2: in the governor's mansion, you can imagine how the Republican
Speaker 2: staff reacted to this life. They got there right, but
Speaker 2: they had to swallow whatever they thought, because, as the
Speaker 2: campaign consultant Stu Spencer.
Speaker 1: Noted, yes, I know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that. The Nancy warned folks like him
Speaker 2: that quote. She was going to be the bad guy.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. She came in Darth Vader style, like he's
Speaker 2: the Emperor. I'm Darth Vader. Fear me.
Speaker 1: There is a listener of ours. I think what's her name,
Speaker 1: fran I think I remember because she said she was
Speaker 1: a second generation California and I'm going to want up
Speaker 1: for being a fifth anyway. So she recommended a book
Speaker 1: called The Last Days of the Late Great State of California.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yes, and it has become one of my
Speaker 1: favorite books ever.
Speaker 2: Yes I am, then I have to check that out.
Speaker 1: Eternal debt to her. But one of the so like,
Speaker 1: the first chapter of the book is fiction. It's about
Speaker 1: like an earthquake in California, the ocean. Last chapter fiction.
Speaker 1: The middle part of it is all just like true
Speaker 1: account of California through these years. It's like it came
Speaker 1: out like sixty seven. The book interesting, and so they
Speaker 1: talk about all the consultants, the political consultants who get
Speaker 1: Reagan to where he he is, and so you know,
Speaker 1: how do you get him in the governorship and the
Speaker 1: manipulations of that. Yes, it's insane. It was he just
Speaker 1: created a candidate exactly.
Speaker 2: He was like very much like if you want to
Speaker 2: say Kennedy was the first TV candidate, Reagan was the first,
Speaker 2: like you know, like focus group. So anyway, this is
Speaker 2: how his Republican staff learned to look past the gay
Speaker 2: astrologer who was informing Nancy and Ronald's decision making and
Speaker 2: guiding them to power.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to imagine like all these stiff suits, yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: just like sixty six, right, we got.
Speaker 2: Power you sixty seven, sixty six, sixty seven detectics. Sixty
Speaker 2: six was the election year, sixty seventy takes power. So
Speaker 2: this sort of management, though, wasn't a huge problem for
Speaker 2: when Reagan was governor of California, but it would become
Speaker 2: a problem for them once he considered running for president.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can get away with a lot out here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a land of Jerry Brown shaking earth.
Speaker 1: I think it is just amazing. Love him. One of
Speaker 1: the greatest governors we ever had.
Speaker 2: Called Governor Moonbeam himself.
Speaker 1: Well that's do you know why they call him governor Moonbeam. No,
Speaker 1: why you'd think it was because it was all crystals
Speaker 1: and what I.
Speaker 2: Assume that he meditates at night under the moon to beams.
Speaker 1: It's my understanding that he got called governor Moonbeam because
Speaker 1: he wanted to have satellite connections to basically have like
Speaker 1: early Zoom, like has oh wow, phone calls for meetings
Speaker 1: so that you're not traveling all over the state and
Speaker 1: use technology to your benefit. And they were talking about satellite.
Speaker 1: So he wants to be moon That's what I've been told.
Speaker 2: Interesting, well, when Reagan was governor of California, it wasn't
Speaker 2: a problem to maintain all this like back channel with
Speaker 2: the occult. Right. But now once he's going to become president,
Speaker 2: this is going to be an issue. Right, But first
Speaker 2: decide to even run for president, they have to go
Speaker 2: and consult with the occult. Right, So of the Reagan's
Speaker 2: they turned to their life coach and personal astrologer. And
Speaker 2: you know, rather than me just talk about it, I'd
Speaker 2: like to take you there Elizabeth, the fateful decision of
Speaker 2: whether or not Ronald Reagan should run for president. Wait, Elizabeth,
Speaker 2: I'd like you to close your.
Speaker 1: Eyes as close and picture it.
Speaker 2: It's early in the year in the bis Entennaial of
Speaker 2: America nineteen seventy six, and everyone seems to be in
Speaker 2: a patriotic mood, well most everyone. At the moment. You
Speaker 2: are at a sprawling estate in the Hollywood Hills. The
Speaker 2: house is a pillared, beauty, classical, well appointed. It's the
Speaker 2: kind of house that has a nickname. The owner calls
Speaker 2: it Harmony House. Once a month he hosts fabulous zodiac
Speaker 2: themed parties for the Hollywood elite to come and act
Speaker 2: out their eyes wide shut fantasies. Elizabeth, you are the
Speaker 2: dog groomer for the astrologer to the Stars, Carrol Ryder. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you're currently using scissors and combs to shape the
Speaker 2: fur puffs of a pair of French poodles. The one
Speaker 2: you're currently trimming is thankfully willing to stand poised and
Speaker 2: proud as you snip away across the great room, seated
Speaker 2: on a seventeenth century chair, working on an an ornate
Speaker 2: desk covered in framed photos of classic stars like Joan
Speaker 2: Fontaine and Grace Kelly, Princess of Monaco. Is Carol Writer
Speaker 2: wearing a silk smoking jacket. He's working at an old
Speaker 2: royal typewriter, working on his astrology column. The quietude is
Speaker 2: interrupted by a loud, gonging sound. That's the doorbell to
Speaker 2: Harmony House. You hear a butler greet the visitor, and
Speaker 2: then from their approaching footsteps you can hear what sounds
Speaker 2: like a woman drawing near her high heels are staccato
Speaker 2: against the marble tile floor. The butler and a woman
Speaker 2: wearing a kerchief and sunglasses, clearly meant to avoid being seen,
Speaker 2: enters the great room. The butler announces her, Nancy Davis,
Speaker 2: to see you, mister Ryder. You look up from the
Speaker 2: French poodle and you nearly spit out your big red
Speaker 2: cinnamon gum because you see, despite her kerchief and sunglasses,
Speaker 2: that's the first lady at California and you do not
Speaker 2: like her. Her husband put a number of your friends
Speaker 2: in San Francisco behind bars for minor possession charges. What
Speaker 2: is she doing here? You give a look to Carol
Speaker 2: Rider to see if you should leave, but with a
Speaker 2: graceful hand he suggests you stay and finish grooming his
Speaker 2: French poodles. The woman Nancy Davis aka Nancy Reagan greets
Speaker 2: the astrologer Carol Rider. They air kiss and exchange pleasantries.
Speaker 2: You look away and keep your scissors busy cleaning up
Speaker 2: puffs of poodle. Nancy Reagan and Carol Rder huddle at
Speaker 2: his desk. You're trying not to listen to their hush tones,
Speaker 2: but then Nancy gets a little heated and says, rather loudly,
Speaker 2: should Ronnie run for president? You're hoping the stars are
Speaker 2: not aligned, but you can't help it. As you listen
Speaker 2: to Carol Writer read Nancy and Ronnie's star charts. After
Speaker 2: a moment of study of the stars, Carol Writer tells
Speaker 2: Nancy the timing isn't right. Nancy does not want to
Speaker 2: hear this. She barks back, why must we wait? Why
Speaker 2: can't we go now?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: Why? Why? This is a direct quote, You think to yourself,
Speaker 2: She's like an angry little girl. Carol Writer smooths down
Speaker 2: the lapel of his silk smoking jacket, thinks a moment
Speaker 2: you wait to hear his reply. Carol Writer tells Nancy
Speaker 2: the stars impel. They don't compel. What you make of
Speaker 2: your life depends on you. This is not unique advice.
Speaker 2: This is actually the disclaimer he adds to his astrology
Speaker 2: column in the La Times. You have to fight back
Speaker 2: a laugh, but you no longer want to laugh. As
Speaker 2: for the next hour, you have to listen as you
Speaker 2: groom the two French poodles. Nancy Reagan beg plead, badger,
Speaker 2: browbeat and guilty astrologer to telling her what she wants
Speaker 2: to hear. You admire how he stays firm and grace
Speaker 2: will and unflappable. Finally, he tells Nancy Reagan that she
Speaker 2: needs to go, to leave and to think deeply about
Speaker 2: what the stars are telling her. She agrees to go,
Speaker 2: but she'll contact him soon. Her high heels walk back
Speaker 2: to the front door, led by the butler. You hear
Speaker 2: the click clack recede into the distance. The front door
Speaker 2: opens closes. That's when Carol Ryder finally lets out the
Speaker 2: deeply annoyed sigh he's been holding in, and he loudly
Speaker 2: exclaims that woman, she wears me out. You can't help it.
Speaker 2: You laugh, and he laughs, and the two of you
Speaker 2: share a laugh at Nancy Reagan's thirstiness.
Speaker 1: No, two things. Yes, one, I want to live in
Speaker 1: that picture. It's amazing. I want that too.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: Why did she think she could browbeat him to change
Speaker 1: the stars?
Speaker 2: I do not get You go to somebody to tell
Speaker 2: you what the stars say and you yell at the sky. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you gotta just listen. That's what you're going to them for.
Speaker 2: Otherwise you can just tell yourself whatever, Why do you
Speaker 2: need them involved?
Speaker 1: And it is what it is.
Speaker 2: It's got a fortune cookie and interpret it. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 2: Nancy Reagan, she decided not to listen to her astrologer's advice.
Speaker 2: She found a different astrologer who'd tell her what she'd
Speaker 2: want to hear, and then she told her husband that
Speaker 2: he should indeed run for president in nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 2: He was in the stars, He did, and he lost
Speaker 2: the primary. Carol Ryder was correct, it.
Speaker 3: Was not at times.
Speaker 2: Well, that may have been not the right moment for
Speaker 2: the Reagans. As we all know, they didn't have to
Speaker 2: wait long because four years later, in nineteen eighty, Ronald
Speaker 2: Reagan ran again for the White House, and that time
Speaker 2: the Reagan spoiler alert. Carol Ryder became a frequent guest
Speaker 2: at the Reagan White House, which did not play well. However,
Speaker 2: by then he was a very old man and he
Speaker 2: didn't care. And also he knew he would not outlive
Speaker 2: the Reagan's presidency. If you can believe it, Carol Rider
Speaker 2: correctly predicted the date of his own death. Really anyway,
Speaker 2: Knowing he didn't have long, the astrologer knew he needed
Speaker 2: to turn the reins over to another astrologer who could
Speaker 2: divine the future for Nancy Reagan. Enter Joanne Quigley. She
Speaker 2: was a San Francisco based astrologer. She was raised in
Speaker 2: knob Hill. A child of wealth and privilege. She attended Vassar.
Speaker 2: She went on to publish books on astrology. She was
Speaker 2: also on the talk show circuit. You could find her
Speaker 2: on MERV Griffin's show. It was MERV who brought her
Speaker 2: to the Reagan's orbit. Yeah, okay, but what do you
Speaker 2: think happened on March thirtieth, nineteen eighty one that pushed
Speaker 2: Nancy Reagan to seek out an astrologer that she could
Speaker 2: count on and depend on for life advice? Is that
Speaker 2: when he shot her husband got shot.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yes, less than three months into his presidency, someone tried
Speaker 2: to assassinate Ronald Reagan in order to impress Jodie Foster. Yeah,
Speaker 2: nut job. Rightly, he was convinced that if he killed Reagan,
Speaker 2: Jody Foster would want to go out with him or something.
Speaker 1: A lot of barriers.
Speaker 2: I got some bad news for you about who Jody
Speaker 2: Foster prefers. Anyway, he went through with it. He damn
Speaker 2: near killed Reagan. I don't know if you know this,
Speaker 2: but how close he came to dying. Yeah, apparently the
Speaker 2: press secretary took a note at the time, doctors believe
Speaker 2: bleeding to death. Right. He also recorded other diagnostics doctors
Speaker 2: had told him in the in the er, they said,
Speaker 2: can't find a wound. Think we're going to lose him,
Speaker 2: rapid loss of blood pressure, touch and go. Yeah. So
Speaker 2: the bullet that hit Reagan left a quote, tiny jagged
Speaker 2: slit in Reagan's side, and the doctor didn't notice it.
Speaker 2: None of the doctors noticed it until they'd stripped Reagan.
Speaker 2: After they cut off his clothes and he was naked
Speaker 2: on the gurney, one of them spotted a tiny entry
Speaker 2: wound and in that nice you get a picture of
Speaker 2: naked Reagan on a gurney. Anyway, thank you, It wasn't
Speaker 2: even a doctor who noticed the bullet wound. It was
Speaker 2: an intern who had been in Vietnam War, and he
Speaker 2: was like, that's a bullet wound, and he pointed it
Speaker 2: out and he's like, yeah, there's no exit wounds. Three
Speaker 2: hours of surgery later, the surgeons discovered the bullet just
Speaker 2: chilling a couple inches away from his heart. The bullet
Speaker 2: was in Reagan's left lung. When the president finally came around,
Speaker 2: he wrote on a pad, I'm alive, aren't I Right? Then,
Speaker 2: when Nancy was finally at his bedside, he joked his
Speaker 2: older honey, I forgot to duck. So he joked with
Speaker 2: his attending doctors, I hope you all were all Republicans.
Speaker 2: Weeks Reagan was back at work in the White House. Yes, yeah, Yet, though,
Speaker 2: there was a new error about him, because, as Nancy
Speaker 2: Reagan biographer Karen Tumulty wrote that Reagan quote saw a
Speaker 2: divine hand in the fact that he had been spared,
Speaker 2: which made him more convinced than ever that there was
Speaker 2: a purpose at work in his presidency. So now he's
Speaker 2: all messianic. He's God's chosen president. Meanwhile, Nancy got deeper
Speaker 2: into the occult. So, as her biographer Tumulty wrote, quote,
Speaker 2: her astrology was a crutch. Nancy didn't have religion to
Speaker 2: fall back on, and Ronald Reagan had a very deep
Speaker 2: religious faith. He truly believed God had a plan for him.
Speaker 2: But despite his Christian faith, Ronnie was cool with his
Speaker 2: wife's love of Ay. As Nancy wrote in her memoir,
Speaker 2: Reagan told her, quote, if it makes you feel better,
Speaker 2: go ahead and do it. He also cautioned her, but
Speaker 2: it might look a little odd if it ever came out. Now,
Speaker 2: as the leader of the Free world, he couldn't have
Speaker 2: allies and enemies, or the American people believing that an
Speaker 2: astrologer was shaping White House policies. Now that was the case.
Speaker 2: Elizabeth will take a break, and after this I will
Speaker 2: tell you how that eventually came out. All right, Elizabeth,
Speaker 2: we're back here. I am there you are. He told
Speaker 2: me you'd be here. It okay, Leader of the Free World,
Speaker 2: his wife's into the occult. You got to keep this
Speaker 2: a secret, right, Nancy's leaning on astrologers to keep her
Speaker 2: husband safe from future assassinations. Now, astrology in the White House, right, this,
Speaker 2: as I said, mainly started after the assassination. The thing was,
Speaker 2: Nancy had been warned about the assassination.
Speaker 1: Really by whom after the fact, her old warned.
Speaker 2: After the fact, her old friend, MERV Griffin contacted her.
Speaker 1: He's like spoiler alerts, and.
Speaker 2: He told her an astrologer had told him that in
Speaker 2: the president's chart quote they saw something bad would happen
Speaker 2: that day. So apparently they got told. BRV got told beforehand,
Speaker 2: Nancy got told anything.
Speaker 1: He was just like sitting in the kaftan in Palm
Speaker 1: Springs and like, I slipped my mind to tell her.
Speaker 2: I meant to tell you, but you were busy. So
Speaker 2: when she hears Nancy said, with an actor's theatricality, oh
Speaker 2: my god, I could have stopped it. So now she's
Speaker 2: on a mission, right, So MERV Griffin connects her with
Speaker 2: this psychic astrologer's friend of hers, Joan Quiggly, and uh,
Speaker 2: this means at this point now the president will be
Speaker 2: guided by a San Francisco astrologer who has Nancy's ear right.
Speaker 2: Her influence lasted seven years, the whole first term and
Speaker 2: all but the last few months of Reagan's second term.
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty eight, the open Secret came out to
Speaker 2: the public. You see, Nancy Reagan made an enemy and
Speaker 2: he knew the astrology secret. When she came for him,
Speaker 2: he struck back at her. Oh and that awesome. So,
Speaker 2: in her own words, Nancy Reagan knew that relying on
Speaker 2: an astrologer to keep her husband safe and to make
Speaker 2: decisions for the America's future and the future you know,
Speaker 2: all of the people was not a good idea. She
Speaker 2: knew that, right, but she didn't care. Nancy Reagan was like, no,
Speaker 2: that is what's good for Nancy Reagan will hopefully be
Speaker 2: good for most of the people. Now. She was hooked right.
Speaker 2: As she wrote in her autobiography, she said that her
Speaker 2: relationship with the astrologer Joanne Quigley quote began as a crutch.
Speaker 2: Within a year or two it had become a habit. Oh,
Speaker 2: she's like a star chart junkie. This my right, so
Speaker 2: her biography or Kitty Kelly, she wrote that quote. Nancy
Speaker 2: Reagan relied on Joanne Quigley. She would call her sometimes
Speaker 2: eight times a day for almost everything, down to unbelievable details,
Speaker 2: including the takeoff and landing times for Air Force One.
Speaker 2: That was astrology that charted their way. Nobody knew that
Speaker 2: at the time.
Speaker 1: Wait like that, Oh wow, yes, and you know home
Speaker 1: girl's sitting there in San Francisco and every time she
Speaker 1: takes a call, she's like making a note in the
Speaker 1: ledger how many hours this is.
Speaker 2: Also, it was a costly relationship because when you're keeping
Speaker 2: that secret, you know, you can charge a gazill right
Speaker 2: so quickly.
Speaker 1: She was another thing, I want to do a psyche
Speaker 1: powers and then charge up the huha for it.
Speaker 2: She was paid by the hour and had a retainer.
Speaker 2: She was like a lawyer. She was kept on retainer
Speaker 2: to the tune of three grand a month. That would
Speaker 2: be ninety five hundred and twenty twenty four dollars. Nancy
Speaker 2: Reagan was sent monthly bills to pay the monthly retainer,
Speaker 2: and aedy racked up charges for the month. The bill
Speaker 2: obviously was not sent to the White House, but it
Speaker 2: was sent to a private zip code that was then
Speaker 2: routed to the presidential residence in the White House. But
Speaker 2: so it's kind of circumvented. Most of they unwonted oversight. Yeah,
Speaker 2: then she had an old friend in California reportedly pay
Speaker 2: the astrologers monthly bills on behalf of the President and
Speaker 2: the first Lady. That created a layer of removal, and
Speaker 2: that way there's no direct evidence. There was no checks
Speaker 2: from Nancy Reagon to of San Francisco Astrology. So at
Speaker 2: this point, to make sure her husband stayed safe from assassins,
Speaker 2: Nancy Reagan would give her private astrologer the president's upcoming schedule.
Speaker 2: You know that, Like the Secret Service would have just
Speaker 2: lost it, oh completely if they knew. They did not
Speaker 2: know that Nancy kept it super hush. So over time,
Speaker 2: Nancy came to trust her astrologer's psychic quickly, so much
Speaker 2: that she asked her advice on how Reagan should handle
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union and nuclear proliferation and the ongoing Cold War.
Speaker 2: Of course, her psychic was like, I got you boo,
Speaker 2: hand me my star charts. In order for astrologer's prognostications
Speaker 2: that have sway over the White House, Nancy had to
Speaker 2: find a willing accomplice, right, an insider she could trust
Speaker 2: and manipulate and terrify. Right, So she found the perfect accomplice,
Speaker 2: this dude named Michael Deaver. He was one of Reagan's
Speaker 2: closest advisers, right. He was keen to help her get
Speaker 2: away with this. So their influence campaign started first with
Speaker 2: managing the president's scheduling. Nancy Reagan's biographer Tomlty documented the
Speaker 2: secret partnership. She wrote that quote Deaver would dither and
Speaker 2: then insist, for example, that the president and his plane
Speaker 2: takeoff for a foreign trip at precisely to eleven am.
Speaker 2: He concocted stories to tell the traveling press a pre
Speaker 2: dawn takeoff. It was deemed to have been dictated by
Speaker 2: medical advice on how to avoid jet lag. So he
Speaker 2: was just lying. So meanwhile, Reagan's chief of staff, James Baker,
Speaker 2: he was not down with astrology or really any of
Speaker 2: the occult so he just pretended none of this was happening,
Speaker 2: just exactly like, I don't know what that's that's not
Speaker 2: happening over there. Let me look at my watch. Oh
Speaker 2: I love my watch. Now he had to wait on
Speaker 2: Quigley to tell Nancy when the president could address the nation,
Speaker 2: hold a press conference, all sorts of stuff, imagining the
Speaker 2: chief of staff at the White House, and you got away.
Speaker 1: All weird times, like the press conference starts at three
Speaker 1: forty seven, the.
Speaker 2: Plane leaves it to eleven am exactly, So James Baker
Speaker 2: recalled at the time, quote, when we wanted to schedule
Speaker 2: a big thing like a press conference, he'd say, let
Speaker 2: me take a look at it. Then we figured he
Speaker 2: and Nancy would talk about the date. Now it's clear
Speaker 2: that they were clearing it all with her with the astrologist.
Speaker 2: So he found out way later. That's how much he
Speaker 2: was like head in the sand about this. After the
Speaker 2: first term, Deaver decides he'd had enough of life in
Speaker 2: the White House. He's like, this sucks. So eight nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty four, after Reagan's re elected, Deaver begins to prep
Speaker 2: his replacement get him to be cool with the whole
Speaker 2: astrologer's shadow influence on the White House. Deaver insisted his
Speaker 2: replacement be cool with this, so he invites him out
Speaker 2: for a drink to kind of like tell him how
Speaker 2: it goes. He breaks it to him right. The dude
Speaker 2: was quote flabbergasting, and he told him and I quote,
Speaker 2: holy Mike, I thought you were a madman. I can't
Speaker 2: believe you had to do this. Now now it was
Speaker 2: his responsibility, and he took it on. This dude's name
Speaker 2: was Bill Hankel, and now he fell under Nancy's powers
Speaker 2: of persuasion just the same as Deaver had. Soon enough,
Speaker 2: he's keeping her secrets too, no questions about it. All
Speaker 2: it took was the strategic confession of her fears. You see,
Speaker 2: Nancy confided to him how Reagan's near assassination terrified her
Speaker 2: and she would do anything to keep the president safe.
Speaker 2: Nancy told him, and I quote Bill, I want you
Speaker 2: to understand and feel what it was like. I saw
Speaker 2: six doctors with panic in their eyes. My naked husband.
Speaker 2: I knew he was dying. So there you go. Nancy
Speaker 2: Reagan wants you to feel fear. That's gotta be a
Speaker 2: weird moment. And then she uses naked Ronald Reagan to
Speaker 2: make you understand fear. That would do it for me.
Speaker 2: Do it for me anyway, so that.
Speaker 1: I'm made of stronger stuff?
Speaker 2: Do you have? I worked in two naked Reagan into
Speaker 2: the same thing anyway entered Donald Reagan.
Speaker 1: It's like from the waist up.
Speaker 2: Okay, there you go, cartoon mine.
Speaker 1: And it's very like a Kendall smooth.
Speaker 2: From it's okay, oh, I gave like a waxy and place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's just a wax figure.
Speaker 2: So former Treasury Secretary Donald Reagan, he becomes Reagan's new
Speaker 2: chief of staff after James Baker's like deuces, and oh boy,
Speaker 2: did he hate Nancy Reagan. I just saw Red hated her, right,
Speaker 2: and Nancy hated him. So one time, after she'd called
Speaker 2: his office for like the three hundred and seventy seventh time,
Speaker 2: he barred no one in particular, I'm not the chief
Speaker 2: of staff of the first lady. Oh yeah, that kind
Speaker 2: of sexist. So Nancy, he liked to say of Donald Reagan, quote,
Speaker 2: don thought he was the president. Yeah. So the lines
Speaker 2: in the sand were drawn, and it didn't take Nancy
Speaker 2: long to figure out what she needed to do, which
Speaker 2: is run a White House coup and get rid of
Speaker 2: Donald Reagan. So how does she do this? To get
Speaker 2: rid of Donald Reagan? She needed something that wouldn't point
Speaker 2: back at her. So she's like, I'm Nancy, I can
Speaker 2: figure this. Moment she waits, she finds the perfect excuse
Speaker 2: in the form of the Iran Contra affair. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: she uses that as a spatchelor let to flip him
Speaker 2: out of the White House. Yes, when that sordid scandal
Speaker 2: broke and rocked to the Reagan White House, Nancy slightly
Speaker 2: used all the negative attention to oust Donald Reagan like
Speaker 2: it's him. Oh yeah, that's easy, orchestrates his removal. Boom,
Speaker 2: he's out. But a man like Donald Reagan, he's not
Speaker 2: gonna go quiet. He's gonna remember he waited. Meanwhile, he
Speaker 2: wrote a book, and in that book he documented everything
Speaker 2: he knew and everything he could allege. And it comes
Speaker 2: out in nineteen eighty eight, just in time, well Reagan
Speaker 2: still president election year. Donald Reagan made sure that Nancy's
Speaker 2: big secret was revealed in a way that it looked
Speaker 2: maximally manipulative and conniving. And so for Reagan wrote, and
Speaker 2: I quote, virtually every major move and decision that Reagan's
Speaker 2: made during my time as White Elf chief of staff
Speaker 2: was cleared in advance with a woman in San Francisco
Speaker 2: who drew up horoscopes to make certain that the planets
Speaker 2: were in a favorable alignment. He also wrote that he
Speaker 2: didn't personally know the astrologer's name or her identity. Now
Speaker 2: the news of the book hits right, Nancy springs into action.
Speaker 2: She contacts her astrologer, and Nancy tells her the any
Speaker 2: like busy body reporters come sniffing around her place. The
Speaker 2: astrologer is to deny the story. Yeah, and I quote lie.
Speaker 2: If you have to just lie, you can't say anything.
Speaker 2: So that's her approach. Didn't take long for the reporters
Speaker 2: to get to San Francisco. They find the astrologer. Remember,
Speaker 2: it's an open secret. So the astrologer psychic was only
Speaker 2: too happy to come forward and to tell her side
Speaker 2: of the story. She completely ignored.
Speaker 1: Nancy told her to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly is her chance. So she told a reporter
Speaker 2: from the Associated Press that she was quote a serious
Speaker 2: scientific astrologer. To clarify what that meant, she added, and
Speaker 2: I quote, I am really not one of those clowns.
Speaker 2: And I really don't like the circus atmosphere. So she's serious,
Speaker 2: She's dead serious. Yeah. Anyway, soon enough she had a
Speaker 2: book deal, so she cashed in on all that the
Speaker 2: circus atmosphere she didn't like. She made it work for
Speaker 2: her in the name of the name of a book. Quote,
Speaker 2: what does Jones say my seven years as a White
Speaker 2: House astrologer to Nancy and Ronald Reagan?
Speaker 1: I kind of want to read that, right.
Speaker 2: So once the story broke and their San Francisco astrologery
Speaker 2: is unmasked, the White House had to spring into damage control.
Speaker 2: Right Press secretary of the time Marlin Fitzwater, he tried
Speaker 2: to contain any damage from the psychic scandal. May fourth,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight. He holds a White House press briefing
Speaker 2: downplays Donald Reagan's claims quote, it's true that Missus Reagan
Speaker 2: has an interest in astrology. She has for some time,
Speaker 2: particularly following the assassination attempt in March of nineteen eighty one.
Speaker 2: He was very concerned for her husband's welfare, and astrology
Speaker 2: has been part of her concern in terms of his activities.
Speaker 2: The New York Times also reported that, quote, mister Fitzwater
Speaker 2: acknowledged that the President has a superstitious streak. He often
Speaker 2: talks and speeches about quote lucky numbers and jokes that
Speaker 2: the ghost of Abraham Lincoln resides in the White House. Well, yeah,
Speaker 2: so they just wanted to basically connect all the dots.
Speaker 2: So Ron reag was eventually asked about this by reporters
Speaker 2: and they're like shouting at him because he won't answer
Speaker 2: the questions. Eventually he replies, quote no policy or decision
Speaker 2: in my mind has ever been influenced by astrology. Okay,
Speaker 2: so that raised the question, other than scheduling, what influence
Speaker 2: did Quiggly have?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: How much influence did this San Francisco psychic really scheduling?
Speaker 2: In her nineteen ninety memoir, quickly claimed that she advised
Speaker 2: the President not to play it so tough in negotiations
Speaker 2: with Mikhail Gorbachev and the Soviet Union. She told Nancy
Speaker 2: Reagan that, quote, Ronnie's evil empire attitude has got to go,
Speaker 2: so quickly claimed in nineteen eighty six, in the hours
Speaker 2: before a summit in Iceland between the Soviet Union and
Speaker 2: in the US that focused on nuclear disarmament, quickly read
Speaker 2: the star charts of Reagan and Gorbachev, and she told
Speaker 2: Nancy Reagan their horoscopes. In a twenty fourteen interview, Quiggily recalled,
Speaker 2: I affected the relationship between the superpowers by my reading
Speaker 2: of Gorbachev's horoscope. What does she mean by that? Elizabeth Well,
Speaker 2: in her own words, quickly told Nancy Reagan, quote, Gorbachev's
Speaker 2: aquarian planet is in such harmony with Ronnie's. You'll see
Speaker 2: they'll share a vision now. Nancy Reagan reported that to
Speaker 2: the White House advisor, specifically, she told Bill Hankel the
Speaker 2: good news right She's like, oh, great news, no nuclear
Speaker 2: war whatever. Right, So Henkel, he wrote in his autobiography, quote,
Speaker 2: she came back saying, these two have by the stars
Speaker 2: some good vibes. So I guess the psychic astrology was right,
Speaker 2: because the world did get nuclear disarmament. And so there
Speaker 2: you go. I admit there was no explicit criminal prosecution
Speaker 2: of Nancy, but I said, you know that there was
Speaker 2: an alleged criminal scandal run by Nancy Reagan and the
Speaker 2: news that Ronald Reagan was secretly being guided by a
Speaker 2: San Francisco astrology I mean, you got to admit that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's both ridiculous and slightly criminals.
Speaker 2: So what's your ridiculous?
Speaker 1: Oh boy, howdy, I need psychic powers because let's make
Speaker 1: it all about me for a second course, as I do,
Speaker 1: I need psych I think too that it's fascinating. I'm
Speaker 1: not like astrology person. I have you know, close friends
Speaker 1: who are and it's like a serious thing for them,
Speaker 1: and I respect that.
Speaker 2: I respect anything that the person to get through the deck.
Speaker 1: But you know, you're talking about how he would say
Speaker 1: lucky numbers, and there are so many things that we
Speaker 1: do that are you know, woo. And you know, even
Speaker 1: like the stock market is astrology for bros. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like.
Speaker 2: It's like one of those mood rocks for capitalists.
Speaker 1: Totally, so I think, you know, we can't we can't
Speaker 1: look too unkindly on it. Plus, I know they got
Speaker 1: you know, the psychics, but then you also had like
Speaker 1: at that time, like Cheney and Rumsfeld, you know, scooting
Speaker 1: around out of that.
Speaker 2: Uh Ford White House going when do we get power?
Speaker 2: To get power?
Speaker 1: They were more influential than it. But it's like, Zaren,
Speaker 1: what's your ridiculous take?
Speaker 2: It's so refreshing, so naked Ronald Reagan, right. I love
Speaker 2: that that Nancy gets that, you know, the thing that
Speaker 2: she loves is also the way to make someone taste fear.
Speaker 2: Turns me on. But this will make you taste fear.
Speaker 2: So there you go. That's mine.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful.
Speaker 2: Oh hey, you in the mood for a talkback?
Speaker 1: I love talkbacks. Let's hear one producing.
Speaker 2: D Oh my god, I love get.
Speaker 1: Hi guys. I'm just listening to the Agatha Christie episode
Speaker 1: and I literally spit coffee out when I listened to
Speaker 1: elizabeths impersonation of Sean Connery. Love your show. Thanks so
Speaker 1: much for all the laughs.
Speaker 2: Nic Yes, thank you guys always, you know, keep those coming.
Speaker 2: We did those, and you couldn't always call us on
Speaker 2: our hotline that we don't have yet, but you can
Speaker 2: find us online at Ridiculous Crime on Twitter and Instagram,
Speaker 2: I think, and we have the website ridiculous Crime dot com.
Speaker 2: And also we, as I said, love your talkback, so
Speaker 2: please give us more of those.
Speaker 1: Call us on the talk back, call us on the.
Speaker 2: Hot back talkback line emails if you want a Ridiculous
Speaker 2: Crime at gmail dot com. All right, thanks for listening.
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