Speaker 1: The guys from paying They've kind of shown me how
Speaker 1: much the equipment matters.
Speaker 2: I just love that I can hit any shot.
Speaker 3: I kind of want we're gonna be able to tell
Speaker 3: some fun stories about what goes on here to help
Speaker 3: golfers play better golf.
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Ping Proven Grounds Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Shane Bacon, joined as always by Marty Jerts and Marty.
Speaker 1: I want to discuss something with you today that is
Speaker 1: mentioned probably one hundred times around from everybody that plays
Speaker 1: golf and maybe isn't quite understood to the level that
Speaker 1: maybe would help golfers out there. Let's talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about spin today. Spin in friction, specifically with wedges,
Speaker 1: and I want to start here, Marty. We talk about spin.
Speaker 1: We see spin on videos, like there's some shots that
Speaker 1: we saw this year on the PGA Tour, you know,
Speaker 1: balls hitting a couple of times in stopping, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the great shots we've seen some of the
Speaker 1: best players in the world hit all kind of created
Speaker 1: with spin, spin back, things that average golfers want to
Speaker 1: do more often. But I want to just start with, like,
Speaker 1: where does spin come from? How is spin created for
Speaker 1: any golfer, whether it be Victor Hovelin or me or
Speaker 1: a twenty five handicap.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Shane, I think that's the that's a great place
Speaker 3: to start. Like what creates spin? Right, So if you
Speaker 3: have an impact or a club with zero loft on it,
Speaker 3: and you don't hit up or down on the ball,
Speaker 3: so club's coming in perfectly straight, no loft on it,
Speaker 3: all of the energy transfer, the momentum transfer between the
Speaker 3: ball and the face will be what's called kind of
Speaker 3: normal to the golf ball, or just make the golf
Speaker 3: ball translate only so just linearly so it'll come off
Speaker 3: with no spin. So anytime you start introducing an angle there,
Speaker 3: which the golf kind of teaching community technical community is
Speaker 3: kind of calling spin loft. Now, right, anytime you have
Speaker 3: this angle and you have the club moving forward, you're
Speaker 3: going to generate kind OF's what's called a tangential force.
Speaker 3: So you got to force acting on the golf ball
Speaker 3: that's gonna impart ball speed, and then you have a
Speaker 3: force that's gonna act on the ball that's gonna kind
Speaker 3: of flick it and put in part rotation onto the
Speaker 3: golf ball, and that's what causes spin. So there's ways
Speaker 3: to influence how much that tangential force, how big that
Speaker 3: tangential force is, And the bigger you can get that
Speaker 3: tangential force, the more spin you're gonna put on the
Speaker 3: golf ball. And there's some things that can influence that
Speaker 3: tangential force. Those are gonna be the club head speed.
Speaker 3: So the faster you have the club going, the bigger
Speaker 3: that potential you have to get that tangential force, the
Speaker 3: more backspin you can put on the golf ball. The
Speaker 3: other big one is the coefficient of friction, So the
Speaker 3: more friction you can get between the ball and the
Speaker 3: club face, the more potential you have to impart backspin
Speaker 3: on the golf ball. And then the angle. There's kind
Speaker 3: of this sweet spot here on the angle how much
Speaker 3: you open the face, And this is where things get
Speaker 3: a little nuanced and a little complicated, because you can
Speaker 3: have a higher friction at some angles doesn't change the
Speaker 3: spin as much. There's a reason why nobody's playing eighty
Speaker 3: degree lob wedges out there, because you actually start to
Speaker 3: lose spin over a certain threshold on that angle. So
Speaker 3: there's a lot kind of going on in the impact
Speaker 3: physics and the microphysics but that's kind of the general
Speaker 3: principle of how spin is created, which is really fun
Speaker 3: to think about, really fun to think about.
Speaker 1: All right, So let's take a high level player. Let's
Speaker 1: take somebody that's, you know, tour level or a really
Speaker 1: high level amateur player. They're always trying to control spin.
Speaker 1: You know, there were so many times I'm calling corn
Speaker 1: faery golf and you get a feeling, right, guys in
Speaker 1: the middle of fairway, you know, pins in the back
Speaker 1: of the green. They've got a short wedge in hand,
Speaker 1: but it's a full shot and a lot of the
Speaker 1: time you'll hear me say you got to watch the spin, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, they can rip that back to the middle
Speaker 1: of the green, front of the green, even spin it
Speaker 1: off the green. And then on the other side of things,
Speaker 1: you've got a high handicap player that's just trying to
Speaker 1: spin the golf ball.
Speaker 2: Right, they're trying to create spin.
Speaker 1: Why does that happen between Why are high level players
Speaker 1: that hit the ball a decent amount and can hit
Speaker 1: it pretty far can try to control spin while maybe
Speaker 1: a shorter hit or higher handicap player is trying to
Speaker 1: find spin when they can't get it.
Speaker 3: Great question and yes, absolutely, the high level player those
Speaker 3: backpins good greens. Okay, so you got good players have
Speaker 3: higher club ed speed, so you got that one ingredient
Speaker 3: we talked about that have high speed. High speed generally
Speaker 3: will generate more spin you have.
Speaker 1: Is that just simply is that just just from the
Speaker 1: club at speed, Like if you're just breaking it down,
Speaker 1: that's simply because you swing a wedge and non iron,
Speaker 1: a seven iron faster than the person that does it.
Speaker 2: That's just basic it.
Speaker 3: Okay, yes, yeah, so that's gonna apply a bigger what's
Speaker 3: called a force vector. So you get a bigger force vector,
Speaker 3: you got not only more ball speed, but also more
Speaker 3: potential for that tangential forcea to generate more spin on
Speaker 3: the ball. So more speed, more spin. It's one of
Speaker 3: the benefits of gaining speed is that you can spin
Speaker 3: your irons more. Right, if we talk about the the
Speaker 3: high handicapped player that needs to spin it more in
Speaker 3: a lot of scenarios to stop that ball in the green.
Speaker 3: So let's go back to that high elite level tournament player.
Speaker 3: They're in that that condition. They got high club ed speed,
Speaker 3: so they're trying to either reduce their club ed speed
Speaker 3: to reduce the spin. They're playing a high quality golf ball, right,
Speaker 3: They're playing a eurothane cover, high quality golf ball. They're
Speaker 3: on a well manicured golf course. So they got yes,
Speaker 3: you have a tight lie. So when you have a tight,
Speaker 3: clean lie, let's assume it's not raining or fuzzy fairways.
Speaker 3: You got tight fairways, You're going to have very clean
Speaker 3: friction between the ball and the face, the clean contact,
Speaker 3: so that's going to help increase the spin. And then
Speaker 3: you have you know, maybe fast greens and a pitch green,
Speaker 3: and then these players know how to deliver the club
Speaker 3: with their wedges to hit kind of that sweet spot
Speaker 3: spin loft that's going to maximize spin as well. So
Speaker 3: you have a lot of these core ingredients where the
Speaker 3: better player, oftentimes especially to those backpins, greens, pitch back
Speaker 3: to front, they're trying to figure out how to reduce
Speaker 3: their spin. So they can do that by reducing their
Speaker 3: club speed a little bit, swing a little slower, right,
Speaker 3: they can reduce it by changing their spin loft, maybe
Speaker 3: playing a wedge with a little bit less loft on it.
Speaker 3: They can change kind of their handle delivery. How much
Speaker 3: shaffling there is going into impact, and so players do
Speaker 3: this very differently. Some combination of those ingredients are going
Speaker 3: to change, you know, help them reduce their spin. Also,
Speaker 3: they can hit a club with less loft and reduce
Speaker 3: their launch angle, which ultimately what they're trying to do
Speaker 3: is change their descent angle. They want that ball coming
Speaker 3: in and laying on a shallower angle, and that's going
Speaker 3: to help the ball skip a little bit more on
Speaker 3: that first bouncer get.
Speaker 1: Not get that rip effect like that high and then
Speaker 1: it's just ripping back twenty five feet.
Speaker 3: Not get that initial rip. So a lot of times
Speaker 3: some of those shots shine will will still have very
Speaker 3: high spin and us we're kind of calling it and
Speaker 3: golf slang. Hey, they're going to reduce their spin. Technically,
Speaker 3: they might hit a shot that still has ten eleven
Speaker 3: thousand RPMs of spin. They're just controlling their land angle.
Speaker 3: Interesting quite a bit, right so, and it's okay to
Speaker 3: kind of call it spin. A lot of times they
Speaker 3: are actually reducing their spin a little bit. But the
Speaker 3: big thing I think that the better players doing in
Speaker 3: those scenarios when they're quote unquote controlling their spin is
Speaker 3: also just as much reducing the land angle and having
Speaker 3: the ball land shallower.
Speaker 1: Marty, you're somebody that spends a lot of time on
Speaker 1: on not just your own golf game, but understanding golf.
Speaker 1: Let's say you've got one hundred and fifteen yards, Like,
Speaker 1: what's your sand wedge stock ten, one fifteen?
Speaker 3: What my sam my fifty six bent to fifty five
Speaker 3: is right at one fifteen in Phoenix, Arizona gol All right.
Speaker 1: Yeap, So so we've we've got one hundred and fifteen yard
Speaker 1: backpen for you, Marty.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: How are you hitting that shot and getting it close?
Speaker 1: Obviously factoring and all the things we've already talked about.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know your spin, how it's going to
Speaker 1: come in. What do you do specifically that maybe somebody
Speaker 1: at home could try to work on or put into
Speaker 1: their own game.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So in that scenario, I would usually hit
Speaker 3: a gap wedge, which is full out, like one your club.
Speaker 3: I'm a club, I'm gonna club up. I'm gonna go
Speaker 3: to my one thirty club, which is my gap wedge.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna grip down a little bit. I kind of
Speaker 3: vary that maybe an inch two inches at the most.
Speaker 3: I think some of the better players actually grip down
Speaker 3: a little bit more. I need an experiment with that,
Speaker 3: but I'm gonna grip down a little bit. Gripping down
Speaker 3: a little bit helps me get more shaffling and more handling.
Speaker 3: And I also stand closer to the golf ball, so
Speaker 3: that also helps me get more shaffling. Right, So those
Speaker 3: variables help me get more shaffling while also uh slowing
Speaker 3: my clubhead speed. So so grip down on it, you're
Speaker 3: going to deliver less clubhead speed, so less clubheed speed.
Speaker 3: We talked about, it's going to reduce your spin. Gripping down,
Speaker 3: I can get more shaftling, so I can reduce my
Speaker 3: spin lof launch it lower, and that in turn will
Speaker 3: reduce the land agle the golf ball. I'm also shamed.
Speaker 3: What I do is I narrow my stance. I will
Speaker 3: narrow my stance. That will take out This gets into
Speaker 3: kind of how you power the golf swing a little bit.
Speaker 3: But by narrowing the stance, I reduce how much lateral
Speaker 3: force I'm generating in the in the swing. So that's
Speaker 3: kind of the step right, step step left powering that
Speaker 3: you can use, you know, power the golf swing and
Speaker 3: get more club at speed by narrowing your stance, you
Speaker 3: reduce that and in part a bigger percentage of your
Speaker 3: swing just the twisting force. And so that's a way
Speaker 3: that I have found through experimentation and Derek Dominski Golf
Speaker 3: better twos on it we've had on the pod is
Speaker 3: help at the spin doctor. He also knows how to
Speaker 3: take off spin okay, and you know how to generate spin.
Speaker 3: He's good at helping that with so a distance control,
Speaker 3: stand with the narrow stance, so stand closer, narrow stance,
Speaker 3: grip down. Then you know, I kind of as an
Speaker 3: experiment a little bit with a little clock system if
Speaker 3: you want to from one fifteen. I think if I
Speaker 3: do all those things and standing with the very narrow stance,
Speaker 3: I actually have a hard time hitting my gap page
Speaker 3: past that one fifteen number. So I can go ahead
Speaker 3: and swing relatively what I feel like is full, but
Speaker 3: I won't have the up and down going. I won't
Speaker 3: have the left right. It'll be all twisting force, twisting power,
Speaker 3: a rotational power and hit that one fifteen number.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what's interesting you say that, Marty, I
Speaker 1: mean something I find myself struggling with when I do
Speaker 1: what you're talking about because I do a lot of
Speaker 1: what you said, and I think I might even do
Speaker 1: it when I don't know i'm doing it. I think
Speaker 1: I do the narrow stance. I mean I take more
Speaker 1: club a lot when I'm trying to hit kind of
Speaker 1: the driving wedge into the back pin or whatever. One
Speaker 1: thing I do find is a lot of the time
Speaker 1: I'll hit the shot, it'll land short of where I
Speaker 1: wanted it to, and I'll think to myself, you know, at.
Speaker 2: Least hit it.
Speaker 1: But to your point, it makes sense if you're you know,
Speaker 1: if you're narrow in the stance and you know you're
Speaker 1: doing certain things that are going to take distance off
Speaker 1: a full shot anyway, reminding yourself that now all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, a full golf shot is going to go
Speaker 1: to that pen versus if you're trying to hit the
Speaker 1: thing full out one third.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Shane, If you have a home launch monitor, this
Speaker 3: this is a great test and for the listener that
Speaker 3: wants to do this. If you have a little home
Speaker 3: launch monitor, next time you have access to get on
Speaker 3: a launch monitor, do this test where you hit some
Speaker 3: wedges with literally your feet together. Okay, so stand with
Speaker 3: your feet literally touching or maybe one ball with the
Speaker 3: part or something like that. I like to look and
Speaker 3: judge my stance with by how far apart my heels
Speaker 3: are with my golf shoes. So just stand one inch apart,
Speaker 3: a couple of golf balls apart, and swing literally as
Speaker 3: hard as you can and measure how far it goes.
Speaker 3: Do that with your wedges and you can see everyone's
Speaker 3: gonna be a little bit different. But you can kind
Speaker 3: of have that as a little hacked control how far
Speaker 3: you hit your wedges, and that way, Shane, you get
Speaker 3: to you get to that environment where maybe you got
Speaker 3: one twenty and you but you can't go long, Like
Speaker 3: you're dead if you go long. But the same time,
Speaker 3: you got a wedge in your hand, let's try to
Speaker 3: make a birdie. I mean that is a great scenario.
Speaker 3: I think the best wedge players and we're talking about
Speaker 3: looking at stats from the tour players. I mean, we've
Speaker 3: done really cool analysis that you know, Victor's a little
Speaker 3: bit like this when he gets on he's very aggressive.
Speaker 3: We saw him do this last year at the end
Speaker 3: of the playoffs. Yep back pins. He got very aggressive
Speaker 3: to those and he had the ability to control that distance.
Speaker 3: We've seen this from the likes of Justin Thomas, very
Speaker 3: aggressive wedge player. Maybe one out of ten shots he
Speaker 3: will short sight himself, but he can lean on short
Speaker 3: game to get that ball up and down. But you don't,
Speaker 3: you know, I think in order to get better at
Speaker 3: the game, it's okay to kind of have some skills
Speaker 3: in there with your wedges where you can get more aggressive,
Speaker 3: you know, and and get that ball close to the
Speaker 3: whole if you can control the spin in the trajectory.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Marty, I remember, and you'll remember this moment. But
Speaker 1: it was two thousand. Tiger ran down gogle, remember at
Speaker 1: Pebble Beach and he was on that lone of winds.
Speaker 1: And I remember I had an instructor in Shreveport, Louisiana
Speaker 1: that i'd go see, you know, once in a month
Speaker 1: or something. I was playing junior golf and trying to
Speaker 1: play a jaga stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Tiger hold that wedge.
Speaker 1: Oh, and I remember I hit pitching wedge from I
Speaker 1: think it was one hundred and eight yards. It was
Speaker 1: a back a location and he hold the wedge. I
Speaker 1: remember I went to Peter the next week and said,
Speaker 1: how do you hit that shot?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And so much Marty of what he told me at
Speaker 1: that time, you know, twenty four years ago, is a
Speaker 1: lot of what you said. It was weight on the
Speaker 1: front foot, it was narrow in the stands. It wasn't
Speaker 1: you know, turning as much. It was kind of like
Speaker 1: allowing the arms to do a lot of the work
Speaker 1: because you are taking distance off, but you're also taking
Speaker 1: spin off. And that was obviously a shot. Tiger was
Speaker 1: very comfortable hitting, and he knew that if you went
Speaker 1: full boar at a sandwich from one o eight, the
Speaker 1: likelihood that thing ripping all the way off those pebble
Speaker 1: beach greens was going to happen. So it's just so
Speaker 1: interesting that some of those is a characteristics still kind
Speaker 1: of play. So now we talked about controlling the spin
Speaker 1: for the you know, the high speed, low handicap player.
Speaker 1: What about the players that come to you and say
Speaker 1: I want to spin the golf ball more.
Speaker 3: Yes, So there's a couple ingredients here. Let's go back
Speaker 3: to those fundamentals speed. So you know, it's okay to
Speaker 3: kind of swing full, to spin your wedges. For the
Speaker 3: every day player. You don't want to overswing, you want
Speaker 3: to swing within control and things that nature on your wedges,
Speaker 3: but don't be afraid to take a full swing at
Speaker 3: it your equipment side. So we need you know, high
Speaker 3: performance wedges, all the friction technology that we have in
Speaker 3: ours one fifty nine. You need to be playing a
Speaker 3: golf ball that gives you the potential to spin the ball.
Speaker 3: I think that's one big thing that the high handicap
Speaker 3: player is not playing a golf ball that spins a lot.
Speaker 3: We have Balnamic and we can help out get you
Speaker 3: in a golf ball that spins a lot around the greens.
Speaker 3: We actually have that as a question in Balnamic, Right,
Speaker 3: do you want to spin your wedges with your full
Speaker 3: shots green side shots. We can help recommend a golf
Speaker 3: ball club combination that it gives you potential for generating
Speaker 3: a lot of friction. Then a big thing is being
Speaker 3: able to uh get a little more dynamic uh shaftling.
Speaker 3: So right again we talked about that.
Speaker 1: So that's your your hands are in front of your
Speaker 1: your basically hands are well in front of and theory
Speaker 1: well in front of impact.
Speaker 3: Yes, you want your hands leaning that shafter being in
Speaker 3: front of it at impact, Shane. So there's a lot
Speaker 3: of high handicap golfers out there that set up maybe
Speaker 3: a little weaker grip and the hands on there on
Speaker 3: when they set up to a wedge, the handle is back,
Speaker 3: it's like pointed at their belly button. Right then you
Speaker 3: see the really good wedge players have the hands a
Speaker 3: little bit forward and the even at address. That would
Speaker 3: be my advice for the high handicap golfer. Don't be
Speaker 3: afraid to have, you know, have your hands forward, pressed
Speaker 3: so to speak, a little bit and experiment with that.
Speaker 3: Go one inch more, go two inch more, go three
Speaker 3: inches more. Watch that launch window come down and your
Speaker 3: spin should increase right along with it. What you're doing there,
Speaker 3: from a physics standpoint, is getting more into the sweet
Speaker 3: spot of that spin loft. So don't be afraid to
Speaker 3: swing full. Get the right equipment. You gotta have wedges
Speaker 3: that give you the potential for friction high spin. You
Speaker 3: want to play a golf ball that has that potential,
Speaker 3: and then get a little more shaft lean and that's
Speaker 3: going to help you get more in that optimal window
Speaker 3: to be able to generate some spin with your full
Speaker 3: swing on your wedges. Obviously, you got to make clean contacts.
Speaker 3: That's a skill you gotta work on. That's a skill
Speaker 3: you gotta work on, and and and and try to perfect.
Speaker 3: Is you want to put a little bite on your
Speaker 3: wedges out there?
Speaker 1: Is there a part of the club you should be hitting,
Speaker 1: like lower on the face of a wedge, middle of
Speaker 1: the face, sweet spot, Like is there a part of
Speaker 1: the golf club that creates more spin for players?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Oh, that's a fun topic because this is a
Speaker 3: very hot topic in the teaching and coaching world. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: maybe four or five six years ago, still is today.
Speaker 3: But you know, we got a lot of times we
Speaker 3: get asked these questions from the teachers. Let's go to
Speaker 3: ping and and and they'll have the answers, and so
Speaker 3: this is a really fun one, Shane. Everyone kind of thought,
Speaker 3: and some other companies are talking about, oh, I'm going
Speaker 3: to have high cg wedges and things of this nature
Speaker 3: because we all rightly, so we know that when we
Speaker 3: hit low on the face on our driver three would
Speaker 3: we get that low launch, high spin, ballooning shot, right,
Speaker 3: So it seems very logical to think that in wedges
Speaker 3: you'd want to do the same thing. Let me hit
Speaker 3: low on the face, because when I do that on
Speaker 3: a driver launches low with high spin. That's what I'm
Speaker 3: trying to do on my wedges, same thing will happen.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: This is very interesting and very nuanced. Here is that
Speaker 3: actually we do see and it is correct that when
Speaker 3: you hit low on the face that's generally correlated with
Speaker 3: higher spin. Right. So the question is why does that happen.
Speaker 3: Is it from the same causal reason that you get
Speaker 3: this gear effect on a driver and that somehow again
Speaker 3: we're going back to what we first started with in part,
Speaker 3: a bigger tangential force to get the ball spin. And
Speaker 3: the answer is no, it's not from the gear effect.
Speaker 3: But when golfers hit the ball lower on the face
Speaker 3: with their wedges, you get less debris, You get less matter,
Speaker 3: less water, less dirt that gets picked up in the incher.
Speaker 3: Two of you coming in to hit the golf ball.
Speaker 3: Let's say you're hitting the ball off the ground or
Speaker 3: even a nice clean lie, You're going to pick up
Speaker 3: little grass clippings, little pieces of moisture, debris, dust, dirt
Speaker 3: are going to get between the ball and the club face.
Speaker 3: The lower you can hit the ball in the face,
Speaker 3: it means the less of that debris you're picking up.
Speaker 3: The higher you're coefficient of friction, the more potential you
Speaker 3: have to spin the golf ball. So it is true
Speaker 3: that we generally see a correlation. The best teachers are
Speaker 3: kind of teaching it, the best players are kind of practicing.
Speaker 3: Hitting the ball lower on the face gives you potential
Speaker 3: for more spin. The reason is not from the gear
Speaker 3: effect like a driver would. The reason is actually because
Speaker 3: you're getting better friction and having less debris and matter
Speaker 3: between the ball and the club face. Now, that's a
Speaker 3: very hard thing for the high to tell the high
Speaker 3: handicapper to go do oh, just kind of thin and
Speaker 3: pick your wedges.
Speaker 2: Fine, yeah, yeah, you'll love it. You're gonna love that feeling.
Speaker 3: Just pick them, you know, like Tiger. But but if
Speaker 3: you do want to work on that, if you are
Speaker 3: a pretty if you are kind of skilled golfer and
Speaker 3: you are in that scenario where you do make pretty
Speaker 3: good contact with your pitches and chips and you're looking
Speaker 3: to figure out how to spin it more, yes, indeed,
Speaker 3: try to kind of hit the ball lower on the face,
Speaker 3: even at the risk of when you're practicing, maybe thinning
Speaker 3: one now and again, and that will give you potential
Speaker 3: for generating more spin absolutely.
Speaker 1: All right, So let's move around the golf course because
Speaker 1: we're talking about spin, and obviously with spin, friction is
Speaker 1: obviously an important part of this. Let's move around the
Speaker 1: golf course. What happens? Why is it if I hit
Speaker 1: it in the rough, you're getting jumpers, the ball's not
Speaker 1: spinning as much. What causes that? And how do you
Speaker 1: you yourself, Marty and what and you kind of dive
Speaker 1: into this stuff. What do you see as is a
Speaker 1: way to fix it, a way to play through it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think the question when you hit it
Speaker 3: in the rough is the fear of the flyer, you know?
Speaker 3: And this is interesting one, Shane, it's it's and I
Speaker 3: talked about, you know, spin being very nuanced in these rules.
Speaker 3: Kind of it's hard to apply to general rule to
Speaker 3: all scenarios. So I'll give a couple of case studies here,
Speaker 3: a couple examples. The old timers, they always used to
Speaker 3: say the eight iron gave you the biggest flyer. In
Speaker 3: the modern day golfer tour player, they'll say the nine
Speaker 3: iron might give you the biggest flyer. Maybe the pitching wedge, right, Well,
Speaker 3: the reason why is because today's nine iron pitching wedge
Speaker 3: has the loft of yesterday's eight iron. Yeah, so they
Speaker 3: actually talk about the same kind of loft scenario. But
Speaker 3: the place in the bag where you get a really
Speaker 3: big jumper flyer where the spin is reduced, the ball
Speaker 3: launches high low spin, especially in the Bermuda like like
Speaker 3: lighter Bermuda scenarios where you get a super fly is
Speaker 3: around that pitching wedge or nine iron, And that's because
Speaker 3: you're gonna get a lot You're gonna get grass between
Speaker 3: the ball and the face before you hit.
Speaker 2: The golf ball.
Speaker 3: Okay, So that grass gets and it has a little
Speaker 3: moisture to it as well, so it's a grass water
Speaker 3: combination is getting between the ball in the club face.
Speaker 3: And if you know, we're doing everything we can in
Speaker 3: the design of our grooves and our finishes to get
Speaker 3: that to get that out of the way and get
Speaker 3: better compliance between the ball and the face to reduce
Speaker 3: your flyer. Now, you can't always get one hundred percent
Speaker 3: of that out of there, depending on the lines and
Speaker 3: the conditions, So depend on your golf ball, depend on
Speaker 3: the type of lie, depend on how you deliver it.
Speaker 3: That's going to give you a higher launch, lower spin
Speaker 3: it's where that tangential force that generates the backspin actually
Speaker 3: gets reduced and more of the It changes the force
Speaker 3: vector acting on the ball to be more up and
Speaker 3: that's why you launch it high.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: So anytime there's a reduction backspin, almost always for clubs
Speaker 3: above like a seven iron, it'll be correlated with increased launch.
Speaker 3: So you get that high launch, low spin and when
Speaker 3: you get it with the pitching wedge of nine iron
Speaker 3: can be very dangerous, right, So that's one thing to
Speaker 3: be aware of of where that big flyer comes from. Now,
Speaker 3: what I do to kind of negate that Shane is
Speaker 3: I will a it's a course, it's a strategy thing.
Speaker 3: So if you're in a nine iron pitching wedge scenario,
Speaker 3: you got water penalty, something long, you gotta be careful.
Speaker 3: So you gotta kind of know, Okay, I'm gonna hedge
Speaker 3: it in this scenario, head to my bets on coming
Speaker 3: up short. I will quite often open the face on
Speaker 3: the nine iron or the wedge a lot so I
Speaker 3: can add more loft to it. Don't be afraid to
Speaker 3: steal swing hard club down in those scenarios and be
Speaker 3: aware of what's gonna happen. I usually stand closer open
Speaker 3: the face, make sure I deliver the face very open
Speaker 3: to the path, and try to keep a plenty of
Speaker 3: a kind of spin loft on that particular golf shot.
Speaker 3: Right now. There's other scenario, Shane, where if you have
Speaker 3: a lie in the rough, and maybe it's a four
Speaker 3: iron or a five iron, that's a scenario where it's
Speaker 3: actually on the other side of what's called spin loft mountain.
Speaker 3: And that's a scenario where the timing of the forces
Speaker 3: that impact are such that you can actually get an
Speaker 3: increase in spin, lower launch, and an increase in spin
Speaker 3: on those clubs. So you'll think a lot of golfers
Speaker 3: are like, oh, there's a flyer lie with my five
Speaker 3: iron here. They'll hit a shot, it'll launch kind of low,
Speaker 3: you know, kind of balloon a little bit and come
Speaker 3: up short, and they're like, I thought that was a flyer. Well,
Speaker 3: actually it was. It was a flyer that manifests itself
Speaker 3: in lower launch and increase in spin based on where
Speaker 3: it was and kind of the friction impact physics part
Speaker 3: of the of the curve here. So those are some
Speaker 3: general things that can happen. I think a good rule
Speaker 3: of thumb. For the everyday golfer, seven iron and above,
Speaker 3: you're gonna get a lower spin, and the biggest impact
Speaker 3: that could have for you is generally around nine iron
Speaker 3: or pitching wedge seven iron in below you're gonna get
Speaker 3: You're gonna your flyer a lot of times can respond
Speaker 3: in a way that can increase your spin. It gets
Speaker 3: a little more nuanced to that, even Shane, because your
Speaker 3: golf ball needs to travel through grass as it gets
Speaker 3: out into the air. So it's very depending on the
Speaker 3: type of rough.
Speaker 1: All right, So here's a question for you, because we're
Speaker 1: talking about rough and we're talking about contact, and a
Speaker 1: lot of the time you're in rough and you're just
Speaker 1: trying to kind of maybe get the ball out. You're
Speaker 1: trying to get the ball back and play, trying to
Speaker 1: get the ball around the green. You mentioned, you know,
Speaker 1: you've got a backpin or you've got a flyer, and
Speaker 1: there's trouble long you're basically okay with the fact that
Speaker 1: the ball's gonna come up short.
Speaker 2: One thing I do see a lot.
Speaker 1: Of the the everyday golfer due that I'm not I
Speaker 1: don't quite understand why it happens, but I see It
Speaker 1: happen a lot is they'll be in trouble, There'll be trees, branches,
Speaker 1: stuff in front of them, They'll be in rough, and
Speaker 1: a lot of the time they'll hit it and it'll
Speaker 1: hit the branch up in front of them.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: Why why is it that the ball's kind.
Speaker 1: Of sent up even with maybe a six iron, seven
Speaker 1: iron something like that. And how can a everyday average
Speaker 1: player combat that when they are in trouble, they are
Speaker 1: out of position, they are in rough, trying to get
Speaker 1: the ball under something. How do they combat that ball
Speaker 1: kind of flipping up into the sky and hitting the
Speaker 1: trouble that they're trying to avoid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Shane, I mean not only this is that's not
Speaker 3: a problem and only for the every day golfer. I
Speaker 3: mean I think the tire you do it all the time.
Speaker 3: You're like, oh man, that's.
Speaker 2: Marty.
Speaker 1: Last year, I was playing a qualifier in Connecticut First Hills,
Speaker 1: a par five out of bounds literally both sides, like
Speaker 1: five yards off the fairway, and it was maybe five
Speaker 1: to eighty and it was kind of cold. I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, listen, I'm not hitting driver here. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: hit like I'm gonna crossover in the fairway. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: basically play for the layup. I pulled the layup a
Speaker 1: little bit right, and you know the branches that you
Speaker 1: don't even see in your train when you're when you're you're, you're,
Speaker 1: you're taking a couple of practice wings.
Speaker 3: I've done this.
Speaker 2: Oh, ball crawls.
Speaker 1: The face of the wedge hits the branch right in
Speaker 1: front of me, and I'm sitting there going, well, I
Speaker 1: guess I'm making six to open the golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it happens to us all the time.
Speaker 3: I've done it. There's a hole it of course I play.
Speaker 3: It's a par three. If you miss it over to
Speaker 3: the right, there's a tree, branches and you'll you'll have
Speaker 3: you be like, I'm just gonna pitch it on with
Speaker 3: my lob weedge, not a problem. And if but if
Speaker 3: you launch it at like fifty degrees, you're gonna hit
Speaker 3: this tree. It's usually, oh, there's no big deal. Hit
Speaker 3: this pitch shot. You can feel it. You can feel
Speaker 3: getting back to why this happens, grasp between the ball
Speaker 3: and the face, and what happens in that scenario is
Speaker 3: the ball has no stick. So when the ball impacts
Speaker 3: the face what you want it to do, and what
Speaker 3: feels really good is the golfer is that the ball
Speaker 3: sticks on the face. Okay, right, So the ball's either
Speaker 3: slipping so it's slipping up the face. So if you
Speaker 3: had no friction and loft on the club, the ball
Speaker 3: would slip all the way up right and it would
Speaker 3: launch very very high with very little spin. If you
Speaker 3: had maximum friction, tons of friction spikes on the face right,
Speaker 3: the ball would stick instantly. And the ball is kind
Speaker 3: of viscous a little bit, it's kind of wobbling on
Speaker 3: the face, but that would that would take on more
Speaker 3: of the of the angle of attack of the club,
Speaker 3: less of the loft, so it launched lower and once
Speaker 3: that ball left the face out tons of spins. Those
Speaker 3: are the two extremes. So what you're feeling in those
Speaker 3: scenarios when you're trying to pitch the ball out of
Speaker 3: the trees, keep it under stuff and void embarrassment for
Speaker 3: us better players is you don't want that ball slipping
Speaker 3: up the face. And that's what's happening. Grass is getting
Speaker 3: between there the balls slipping up the face and just
Speaker 3: launching super high with very little spin. So Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: it's it's it's practicing, it's shaffling, it's it's the right
Speaker 3: club selection, uh, to be able to practice those scenarios.
Speaker 3: This is this is where actually you're having your punch
Speaker 3: out game is a legitimate skill.
Speaker 1: Shout out, Shout out a man that is retired from
Speaker 1: the game. Shout out, my goodness. Okay, so we talked
Speaker 1: rough in terms of spin and friction. I want to
Speaker 1: go to bunker play because we watch professional golf on
Speaker 1: a weekly basis on TV. These dudes, I think the
Speaker 1: most impressive part of pro golf, in my opinion, is
Speaker 1: how good they are out of bunkers. And we hear
Speaker 1: announcer state it all the time. They'd rather be in
Speaker 1: a bunker than in the rough. But these pro players
Speaker 1: will hit the shots that'll hit and just stop. They'll
Speaker 1: hit the bunker shots that hit.
Speaker 2: And rip back.
Speaker 1: They'll hit all sorts of different shots. How are they
Speaker 1: creating that amount of spin in a short sided scenario
Speaker 1: out of a greenside bunker? And how can players that
Speaker 1: maybe strug out of the bunkers or just trying to
Speaker 1: create spin out of bunkers, how can they mimic?
Speaker 2: At best?
Speaker 1: They can what a pro can do out of the
Speaker 1: bunkers to create that level of spin in friction.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great another fun to think about. So
Speaker 3: let's kind of think about this theoretically, is like, what
Speaker 3: is happening there when you hit a bunker shot? Is
Speaker 3: the club actually hitting the ball or not? Right?
Speaker 2: I mean most of the time no, right, yeah, slapper,
Speaker 2: they'll say it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So what is the golf ball scene and
Speaker 3: what forces are acting on the golf ball?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: So the tour player week in and week out, they're
Speaker 3: playing in very good bunker conditions, nice pretty fine sand,
Speaker 3: generally pretty firm, not to powdery unless it's a very
Speaker 3: penalizing course or with jack doesn't memorial or something like that. Right,
Speaker 3: They're playing in bunker conditions where you got nice sand
Speaker 3: that if you if you have the right technique. And
Speaker 3: again we'll talk about a lot of speed. Actually the
Speaker 3: sand is what's acting on the golf ball, and that
Speaker 3: sand has a has a level of abrasiveness that can
Speaker 3: generate a lot take a lot of the the force
Speaker 3: that you're that you're applying through the club traveling through
Speaker 3: the sand and acting a little bit like sand paper
Speaker 3: to be honest with you, Okay, So it's very abrasive.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like sand instead of your club face.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit like sand paper swiping across the
Speaker 3: bottom of the golf ball. Right, So with the right technique,
Speaker 3: which is getting the amount the face is open, controlling
Speaker 3: your low point, your attack going through there combined Shane,
Speaker 3: I'll go back to this again. A lot of club
Speaker 3: eddspeed the tour players many do. They're almost swinging maximum
Speaker 3: on a lot of green side shots right totally the
Speaker 3: face wide open. Sometimes it's it's more than ninety degrees
Speaker 3: open literally right when they set up to it. At
Speaker 3: least not delivered to the golf ball, but they got
Speaker 3: that face filaid open their swing, their swing speeds very high.
Speaker 3: They're hitting relatively close to the golf ball, closer than
Speaker 3: the average every day player be comfortable with. And then
Speaker 3: effectively in good bunker conditions, it's like they're hitting the
Speaker 3: golf ball with sandpaper, right, And that abrasive interaction is
Speaker 3: what's taking putting a big tangential force. That force is
Speaker 3: going to create a lot of spin on the golf ball.
Speaker 3: So the everyday player to do that, you got to
Speaker 3: get comfortable opening the face. You got to get comfortable
Speaker 3: hitting a little closer to the golf ball, and you've
Speaker 3: got to get comfortable swinging hard. Right, So those three
Speaker 3: in radients are kind of fun to experiment with if
Speaker 3: that's something you're interested in putting a little sizzle out
Speaker 3: of the bunker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's so interesting. You mentioned, you know,
Speaker 1: the face being open. I mean, I open mind to
Speaker 1: your point. I mean, I've got it as open as
Speaker 1: it can be when I get into those bunkers. I'm
Speaker 1: sure the exact same way. It's like just what you
Speaker 1: have to do to create what you're trying to accomplish, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so often I see players, you know, ten twelve,
Speaker 1: fifteen hindiccap players getting to a bunker. Their stance is
Speaker 1: very square, like set up like a full golf shot.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's barely opened, if at all, the
Speaker 1: face is barely open, very very square. And I will,
Speaker 1: and I'm not I'm not very good at explaining like
Speaker 1: instruction to players. I try at times, but it's not
Speaker 1: something I find myself being very good at or accomplishing well.
Speaker 1: But you know, I will try to talk people like
Speaker 1: keep open in the face and they'll open it like
Speaker 1: two degrees.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, keep opening in that
Speaker 1: thing to a point where you think you're not going
Speaker 1: to hit the golf ball, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: That's where we're starting from. One thing I did want
Speaker 1: to ask about in terms of the spin and technique
Speaker 1: right now is I do feel like there was a
Speaker 1: time where every pro like if the if the whole
Speaker 1: locations at twelve o'clock on a clock, their feet are
Speaker 1: shot at let's say two thirty and they're kind of
Speaker 1: cutting across it and creating that level of spin. It
Speaker 1: feels like they've changed and moved away from that. It's
Speaker 1: a little more square for the players.
Speaker 2: Why is that?
Speaker 3: I Yeah, no, Shane, I kind of agree with that.
Speaker 3: I think the classic old bunker technique was like, am
Speaker 3: pretty good, laughed, open the face, swipe across it. There
Speaker 3: you go. I think there's been a lot of instructors
Speaker 3: that have been able to inform players kind of angle
Speaker 3: of attack, their vertical vertical swing plane, and have some
Speaker 3: ingredients for different type of short game shots, including you
Speaker 3: see some tour players stand a little bit closed, right, they'll.
Speaker 2: Stay to see that.
Speaker 3: Yes, it is really crazy. But there's I think now
Speaker 3: more than ever, there's a bigger variety in bunker techniques. Okay,
Speaker 3: I think there's a bigger variety of bunker techniques. I
Speaker 3: think some the study of of of Sevy by Asteros
Speaker 3: Out of the Bunker, I think was a big part
Speaker 3: of this and kind of informed some of the top teachers,
Speaker 3: and then and then as they started working on this,
Speaker 3: I think they found that there you can the ingredients
Speaker 3: for good bunker players are are more broad than other
Speaker 3: skills in the game. Right, There's different ways you can
Speaker 3: get that that the club use the club loft, use
Speaker 3: the angle of attack, uh, marry that with the type
Speaker 3: of bunkers, in the type of sands you're playing with,
Speaker 3: and have just more options for different type of shots
Speaker 3: around the green, some of which give you a bigger
Speaker 3: margin of error. Right. And I think that's the beauty
Speaker 3: of bunker play is that I think if you can
Speaker 3: dial in your technique, you actually because you're not actually
Speaker 3: hitting the ball, it's the one place unless you're hitting
Speaker 3: the ball out of the water, uh, that you're not
Speaker 3: actually you don't actually have to hit the golf ball.
Speaker 3: You actually can have a very decent margin margin vair. Right,
Speaker 3: you have those bunker shots, Shane. We had one in
Speaker 3: our match where I had a shot on the eleventh
Speaker 3: hole there that is at Astancia, and I could have
Speaker 3: chunk and runned it and just pretended like I meant
Speaker 3: to do it. I could offend it would have flew
Speaker 3: to the hole and spun and it would have made
Speaker 3: me look good. Right. So I think a good bunker
Speaker 3: technique gives you a lot of margin prayer, and I
Speaker 3: think that's what the coaches and players are finding with
Speaker 3: some of those techniques where you don't need to stand
Speaker 3: thirty degrees open with the face so much open and
Speaker 3: cut across it anymore.
Speaker 1: What's the biggest enemy to spin? I know you've done
Speaker 1: so many studies on this. Is it grass on the face?
Speaker 1: Is it water on the face? Is it sand?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What's the biggest enemy for golfers when they're just simply
Speaker 1: trying to spin the golf ball?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it generally would be grass between the ball
Speaker 3: and the club face. Because we've we've done some We
Speaker 3: just did a recent study my colleague doctor Paul Wood.
Speaker 3: It kind of was kicked off with with Joe Mayo
Speaker 3: and Victor Hovelin and just think just understanding how much
Speaker 3: does the golfer impact the ground even you know, on
Speaker 3: pitch shots, right in eighty five percent of pitch shots
Speaker 3: have some level across the sweep of all skill levels,
Speaker 3: the club is interacting with the ground, the grass of
Speaker 3: the debris before you hit the ball. Even if you
Speaker 3: you hit it low on the face, it gets that
Speaker 3: clippy sound, or you have high spin to some degree,
Speaker 3: you've got some grass between the golf golf on the
Speaker 3: club face. So so that is that's the main one
Speaker 3: from you know, things you can't control, and then things
Speaker 3: you can, Shane is is your golf ball selection and
Speaker 3: your wedge selection, right those are going to give you
Speaker 3: the potential to generate a lot of spin. Always clean
Speaker 3: your grooves too, Like I even get lazy with that
Speaker 3: a little bit.
Speaker 1: I mean, like like Marty, if you watch the tour
Speaker 1: players videos now on you on like Instagram and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, they all now have the belt clip with
Speaker 1: the brush, They've all got the alignment stick stuck in
Speaker 1: the ground and they're practice and batal And I mean
Speaker 1: if you ever have a track man or foresight or
Speaker 1: anything like that and you're hitting golf shots in front of.
Speaker 2: It to hit a shot.
Speaker 1: It's worth your time hitting a shot with a dirty
Speaker 1: club face, Just so you understand a thirty yard pitch shot,
Speaker 1: the difference of of like club interaction and what the
Speaker 1: grooves can do to the golf ball versus what happens
Speaker 1: when you have a clean golf club. It is astonishing.
Speaker 1: You will never hit another shot in your life with
Speaker 1: dirty grooves when you're playing. If it matters to you,
Speaker 1: if you see those numbers in front of your face.
Speaker 3: Absolutely yeah, you're gonna you're gonna get that slip. You're
Speaker 3: gonna get that slip. You're not gonna be leveraging the
Speaker 3: technology that we put in there to use the grooves
Speaker 3: like treads on a tire is a good way to
Speaker 3: think about. It's like an all weather tire. You want
Speaker 3: to get the debris, the grass, everything out of the way.
Speaker 3: So that's that's great advice. I've I really like the
Speaker 3: retractable club scrubber you can put on your pat Now.
Speaker 2: I do it.
Speaker 3: I do it at the range. I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1: All right, So when you're out playing golf and you're
Speaker 1: playing in an outing or a pro am or something
Speaker 1: like that, and you get a guy that you can
Speaker 1: tell plays of golf. Yeah, and their wedges you can
Speaker 1: tell have been in the back for two years? Does
Speaker 1: it like kill you inside? Like how how many holes
Speaker 1: are you playing? Until you go, hey, man, listen, you
Speaker 1: gotta get some new wedges, Like what are we doing here?
Speaker 1: I do feel like it's grips and wedges that golfers
Speaker 1: refuse to replace when they are so important to the
Speaker 1: way you're able to go about your business.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I love Shane. I got a technique I
Speaker 3: use where I can I can hit kind of pretty
Speaker 3: high launch. Uh not not quite as good as h
Speaker 3: as Derek Dominski, but I got a high launch technique
Speaker 3: where I can put a lot of spin on it.
Speaker 3: So I just wait for that one time I missed
Speaker 3: the green, or I'm on the par five and I
Speaker 3: got a tuck pin and it hit my high saucy
Speaker 3: one up there and I get that white mark on
Speaker 3: the face. Yep, you know, and you just go over
Speaker 3: to him and say, hey, you know this. Yeah, you
Speaker 3: know that's how that works. You know. They think I
Speaker 3: got some type of magic technique or something, but UT
Speaker 3: new what's I like? But yeah, you can tell you
Speaker 3: can tell where those players you get them in some
Speaker 3: challenging in green side positions and their equipment won't allow
Speaker 3: them to hit the shot. And I think that's going
Speaker 3: back to one of your questions you started with is
Speaker 3: how can the high handicap or do things that the
Speaker 3: tour player wants to do. You have to have the equipment,
Speaker 3: you know, so you have to have our latest technology
Speaker 3: and our grooves friction design, all the engineering we put
Speaker 3: in the face to help you you increase that tangential
Speaker 3: force to get more spin on the golf ball, clean
Speaker 3: your grooves before you hit your webshot or your pitch
Speaker 3: shot or spin's going to be important. And play a
Speaker 3: golf ball that gives you potential to marry with that
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 1: I know this is a ping podcast, and I know
Speaker 1: you and I both work alongside paying, but the S
Speaker 1: one to fifty nine's, in my opinion, are some of
Speaker 1: the best wedges that I've ever seen, ever played.
Speaker 2: I've been obsessed with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you're ever in the market, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, go give them a look, practice them, go
Speaker 1: hit them on a driving range. I can guarantee you
Speaker 1: that you'll fall in love with them as well, because
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it's all the the idea of
Speaker 1: any golf company is just trying to make people play
Speaker 1: better golf, right. I mean that's when you think about
Speaker 1: the ethost of everything. It's like, how can we get
Speaker 1: you to be better at this sport? How can we
Speaker 1: get you to intubate a little bit more? And these wedges,
Speaker 1: you know, wedges are the forgotten part of the golf bag, right,
Speaker 1: and having something that looks good, performs good, is good,
Speaker 1: is a lot of fun to have in the bag,
Speaker 1: and you know is going to be as good as
Speaker 1: anything out there on the market. It's gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: help the confidence and help you save a few extra
Speaker 1: pars when you miss golf shots, because we all miss
Speaker 1: golf shots.
Speaker 3: Right, absolutely, Shane. I think in wedges it's you know,
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people, you know, they want
Speaker 3: to get more spin. So we got high friction club phase,
Speaker 3: we got hydro pearl, hydrophobic finish, we got optimized grooves
Speaker 3: with tight edge radius. We've engineered the surface to get
Speaker 3: more friction. So it's like, okay, our wedges give you
Speaker 3: potential to generate tons of spin, which I absolutely love.
Speaker 3: And then the two hardest parts about getting into the
Speaker 3: right wedges are the gapping in the grinds right, and
Speaker 3: so we made webfoit wedge. It's been used by over
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty thousand people at this point in
Speaker 3: time since we launched it, so we're helping a lot
Speaker 3: of golfers crazy launch it. Yeah, we launched that in
Speaker 3: the spring, So in the springtime with the wedges.
Speaker 1: One hundred and fifty thousand golfers in a year, I
Speaker 1: mean that, Yeah, in what in seven months?
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's in the US. I think internationally we've had
Speaker 3: close to two hundred thousand people go.
Speaker 2: Through ac Man.
Speaker 3: It's an educational process that can help you understand a
Speaker 3: how to gap your wedges and what your gap should
Speaker 3: be right based on how far you hit your pitching wedge,
Speaker 3: and then b understand which grind you should you should
Speaker 3: play or you should get in. So definitely go through
Speaker 3: that before you go out and demo or get a
Speaker 3: fitting with the S one fifty nine wedges. It really
Speaker 3: helps educate you on all of our amazing six different
Speaker 3: grinds options there are in the S one fifty nine.
Speaker 1: And it helps you at your own golf course because
Speaker 1: every golf course is different with different grasses and the
Speaker 1: kind of shots and stuff that they ask throughout the
Speaker 1: fitting and throughout the app. You know, you can answer
Speaker 1: the questions that are specific to how you play golf
Speaker 1: and where you play golf and the region that you
Speaker 1: live in and things like that. So I would, I would,
Speaker 1: I would. You know, just say what Marty said is
Speaker 1: is spot on. Do exactly what he says, as I
Speaker 1: tend to say to people all the time. Just kind
Speaker 1: of follow Marty's lead and you'll be uh, you'll be Marty.
Speaker 1: That was a lot of wedge and friction talk.
Speaker 2: Did we miss anything? Did we nail it all?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, uh, friction. Friction is a in spin
Speaker 3: generation is a is a fun thing, you know, I
Speaker 3: think it's very fun to think about. Okay, what makes
Speaker 3: wedges act differently than drivers in fairway woods. We've covered
Speaker 3: that with differences in the gear effect. You know, folks
Speaker 3: getting flyers in different conditions. Maybe that is helpful for
Speaker 3: you when you're out there on the golf course. How
Speaker 3: to avoid the embarrassment of you know, your punch out
Speaker 3: slipping up the face, hitting the tree and make it double,
Speaker 3: you know, on your first hole, the turn the worst.
Speaker 3: The same thing though, Shane I was gonna say. The
Speaker 3: thing about spin is in flyers, you can also apply
Speaker 3: it to why it's hard to curve the ball out
Speaker 3: of the rough.
Speaker 2: Rkay.
Speaker 3: So this is another thing. It's anytime you get in
Speaker 3: the rough. For the same reason that it's hard to
Speaker 3: hit it low with high spin, it's also hard to
Speaker 3: curve the golf ball. So just be cognizant of that
Speaker 3: if you're in the If you're in the rough and
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, I'm gonna hit my normal twenty yard
Speaker 3: draw with this pitching wedge around the corner, and you
Speaker 3: the thing takes off straight, flies dead straight, even though
Speaker 3: you definitely have the face very shut to your path.
Speaker 3: You're like, what's going on here? It's the same reason, right,
Speaker 3: It's hard to get the sideways spin generation force up,
Speaker 3: so be careful with that as well when it comes
Speaker 3: to shot making or curving the golf blo out of
Speaker 3: the rough. And one other piece that's pretty interesting is
Speaker 3: if you have a very short part three, we're hitting
Speaker 3: a fifty eight or sixty degree and you put the
Speaker 3: ball in the tee, that's when you have potential generate
Speaker 3: tons of spin? Interesting, okay, So if you have a
Speaker 3: you know, seventy eighty ninety one hundred yard par three
Speaker 3: on your golf course, or you go play a course
Speaker 3: with one of those really fun short part threes, be
Speaker 3: careful in that scenario with watching your spin as well,
Speaker 3: because you have that golf ball on his tea perfect friction.
Speaker 3: If it's not raining, and you can, you can generate
Speaker 3: tons of spin. So that's a scenario to kind of
Speaker 3: watch out for it. Be careful with.
Speaker 1: Will you let's say it's a front pin and you've
Speaker 1: got your stock sandwich one fifteen. Let's say it's a
Speaker 1: front pin and it's one oh eight. Oh yeah, right, yep?
Speaker 1: Will you not put it on a peg sometimes to
Speaker 1: take some of the spin off.
Speaker 3: I will still always put it on a tee. I
Speaker 3: think that variability. Anytime you put it on the ground,
Speaker 3: you're gonna have variability. So it's a trade off of
Speaker 3: maximizing spin or more variability, which is okay. Some you know,
Speaker 3: my launching spin window might be more variable if I
Speaker 3: put that golf on the ground, right, And I'm I'm
Speaker 3: a believer anytime you can put it on a tee
Speaker 3: with an iron shot. You'll want to do that.
Speaker 2: There you go, mart Marty, just throw an advice left
Speaker 2: and right. I like this one. This is fun, I
Speaker 2: will say.
Speaker 1: I mean, we think about golf, and we think about
Speaker 1: viewing golf, Marty, and there's an obsession with distance as
Speaker 1: there should be. I mean, watching guys like Cam Champ
Speaker 1: hit drivers crazy, right. I mean he hits it three
Speaker 1: forty three fifty and kind of hits this low bullet
Speaker 1: and it goes forever and you're kind of amazed by
Speaker 1: his ability to do that. I've always been more attracted
Speaker 1: to the amazing shots around the greens that these players hit.
Speaker 1: You know, the Rory shot at the Ryder Cup last year.
Speaker 1: You know that he's talked. I think he told Kyle
Speaker 1: Porter it's one of the best shots he's hit in
Speaker 1: his life in terms of tournament golf. Like some of
Speaker 1: those those kind of shots that the players pull off,
Speaker 1: you know, they hit and they.
Speaker 2: Just stop on a dime. I remember more a Cawa
Speaker 2: hit one.
Speaker 1: I think at the Travelers last year that I of
Speaker 1: course went in scram and started to go a bit viral.
Speaker 1: You know, when you think about those kind of shots,
Speaker 1: they're just so cool to watch because you obviously understand
Speaker 1: the player is in total connection with the club face,
Speaker 1: the ball, the spin, everything to be able to pull
Speaker 1: a shot like that off.
Speaker 3: I think the fun ones on tour that you get
Speaker 3: to the courses to have zoija around the green oh
Speaker 3: teet up and is literally teed up. It is like
Speaker 3: hitting off a teeth quite literally right, and that's where
Speaker 3: you can really melt it on the on the club face. Shane,
Speaker 3: I'm really glad you brought up Tiger shot at Pebble
Speaker 3: because that is I will envision that swing when I'm
Speaker 3: on the range literally trying to hit you know, the
Speaker 3: dead arms wedge, the take spin off pitching wedge. I
Speaker 3: actually heard I don't know if you've heard this story. Tiger.
Speaker 3: He would go to the range and one of his
Speaker 3: drills was he would pick a He would pick a
Speaker 3: post out there, maybe one sixty. He can start by
Speaker 3: ripping pitching wedges at it right. Then he'd go to
Speaker 3: that same post and go nine irons a little lower,
Speaker 3: a little less spin than eight irons, land them right
Speaker 3: at it. Then seven, then six, then five, then four.
Speaker 3: He's just hitting four irons at that thing at one sixty.
Speaker 3: There's no wonder he could pull that shot off.
Speaker 2: You know, he's done that before, and he's done it before.
Speaker 2: He was he was good at golf. That was fun.
Speaker 2: We'll uh well. If you have any other questions.
Speaker 1: By the way, if you ever have any questions after
Speaker 1: these podcasts and you want to ask us one, you
Speaker 1: can hit Marty and I on social and we'll do
Speaker 1: our best answer them. We get messages a decent amount,
Speaker 1: Marty from people that want to follow up, and we
Speaker 1: love answering them. And if you send me a question
Speaker 1: on Instagram or Twitter and I can't answer it because
Speaker 1: I'm much dumber than Marty, I will pass it along
Speaker 1: to Marty and he will he will relay that information
Speaker 1: back to me. But we're we're here to try to help,
Speaker 1: So if you ever have questions in that regard, feel
Speaker 1: free to reach out to us and make sure, especially
Speaker 1: specifically on this podcast, this one in particular, if you
Speaker 1: watch us on YouTube, Marty was very good in terms
Speaker 1: of explaining it with his hands and showing you what
Speaker 1: he's talking about. So if you ever want visual help
Speaker 1: in terms of what we're talking about, the podcasts are
Speaker 1: always up on YouTube and you can find him there.
Speaker 1: That's Marty Jertson. This is the Being Proven Grounds podcast