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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back Bob Left stepod podcast. My guest

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Speaker 1: this week is the one and only Tommy James. Tommy,

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Speaker 1: good to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Great to be with you. So you're going on the

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Speaker 1: road during the era of COVID. What is that like? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know something, we were down for a year and

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Speaker 1: a half. We didn't we didn't perform our you know,

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Speaker 1: it was from February of two, just recently and uh so,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like being an athlete who stops. Who

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Speaker 1: stops being an athlete for a year and a half

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Speaker 1: and your your your muscles get all saggy and you

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Speaker 1: you know, when you go back out, you're not You're

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Speaker 1: not sure what's going to happen. And so that's what

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Speaker 1: I felt like. We have just completed our seventh concert

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Speaker 1: after COVID, and uh, you know, I get stronger and

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Speaker 1: stronger at each show. So I feel pretty good now.

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Speaker 1: The first couple of shows were crazy. I was forgetting

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Speaker 1: the words to Hanky Panky and that's hard to do.

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Speaker 1: That's very There's only six of them, so so at

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Speaker 1: any rate, uh, uh, you know, I'm feeling pretty good now.

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Speaker 1: We're we're we're in St. Louis this week and uh

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Speaker 1: so you know it's uh getting back out in the

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Speaker 1: road and mixing it up with the fans feels really good.

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Speaker 1: What about COVID and the fan do you have any

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Speaker 1: problem people anxious about attending since you know a lot

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Speaker 1: of older demo people want to come to your show. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, we weren't sure what was going to happen, uh,

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Speaker 1: if people are gonna come back to but these these

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Speaker 1: folks are ready to party, and it's it's very I'm

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Speaker 1: very pleasantly surprised. Um, there's only been a couple of

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Speaker 1: places where uh, masks were required. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: you go to a rock concert with a mask on, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, singing along and whooping and hollering. It's pretty tough.

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Speaker 1: But um, uh, you know it's funny. As soon as

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Speaker 1: we get there, people seem to just rip the masks

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Speaker 1: off and uh so everybody is is ready to go,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I'm not I'm not really concerned.

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Speaker 1: I had COVID uh last December. In fact, Christmas Eve

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Speaker 1: they told me I had COVID. They said, Merry Christmas,

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Speaker 1: you got COVID, And I was very very blessed and

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Speaker 1: fortunate to not have a serious case at all. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have even known I had it if they hadn't

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Speaker 1: told me. Our housekeeper basically told my wife and I that,

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Speaker 1: uh she had tested positive in December of and so

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Speaker 1: we had a lab. The lab came out and we

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Speaker 1: we both tested and I she she was negative. I

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Speaker 1: was positive. So all I can say is I was.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't have known I had it if I hadn't

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Speaker 1: have been told. So thank God. And uh so, I

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Speaker 1: you know, I have whatever natural immunity you get, and

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Speaker 1: uh so, I feel pretty good. I feel I feel

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Speaker 1: very confident out in the road. Now. Okay, Tommy, we

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Speaker 1: heard recently that your wife wasn't doing so well. What's

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Speaker 1: up with that? Well, Linda has MS and she's had

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Speaker 1: it since uh oh nine. She was diagnosed with it,

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Speaker 1: and it's progressive and it's part of our life now.

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Speaker 1: MS is a really spooky disease because everybody gets it

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Speaker 1: different and essentially, the the the lining around the nerves

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Speaker 1: um it's called milon and uh it gets inflamed and

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Speaker 1: when it does, it leaves scars. And when it leaves scars,

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Speaker 1: the electrical impulses can't get in and out, so it's

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Speaker 1: essentially paralyzing. And so it's progressive and it's just the

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Speaker 1: way it is and we gotta live with it. So

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Speaker 1: your wife Linda is a practical matter. Now, what's her

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Speaker 1: life look like? How mobile is she? Well, she's she's

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Speaker 1: not mobile at all. She's pretty much better ridden now

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Speaker 1: and that's just the way it's going to be. Occasionally

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Speaker 1: we can use a wheelchair, but pretty much she's ah,

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Speaker 1: she's an invalid, and so we have a team of

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Speaker 1: nurses and I'm a caregiver in between doing Tommy James stuff.

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Speaker 1: So that's just the way it is. Thank you for asking.

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Speaker 1: So when you do a show t me, the audience

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Speaker 1: expects the hit. Do you ever not play one of

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Speaker 1: the hits? And what's the reaction? Yeah? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: we we get requests for so many more than we

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Speaker 1: can do during you know, an hour and a half.

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Speaker 1: We we probably could play for three hours if we, uh,

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Speaker 1: if we were to do more of the more of

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Speaker 1: the hits and more of the big album cuts and stuff.

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Speaker 1: But I'm very honored and flattered. During that time, we

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Speaker 1: get requests for all kinds of stuff and h every

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Speaker 1: now and then we throw new stuff into the show,

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Speaker 1: but we've only got so much time, so we try

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Speaker 1: to cram as many of the big songs and two

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Speaker 1: into that much time as we can. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: tell you I read your stuff all the time, and

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Speaker 1: I am really knocked out. I love, I'm very honored

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Speaker 1: to do this with you. And uh, uh you're extremely articulate,

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Speaker 1: and you are saying the things that all of us

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Speaker 1: need to know. You know, um who are in the business,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you have a very keen eye. And and

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Speaker 1: I must say I'm very impressed with your writing and

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Speaker 1: your insights and things, and I mean that sincerely. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know this is an audio podcast, so people can't

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Speaker 1: see me smiling. Thanks so much. But since we're on

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Speaker 1: the laudatory path, you wrote one of the best rock

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Speaker 1: biographies ever, the first and for first and for most.

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Speaker 1: It hits the number one criterion of writing. It's extremely

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Speaker 1: readable because I certainly read about it, read it and

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Speaker 1: wrote about it when it came out. But I was

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Speaker 1: reviewing it last night, my girlfriends, well, what's going on?

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Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah, And I said none. I said,

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Speaker 1: this is the type of book. You start reading it,

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Speaker 1: you can't stop. It's just done so well. I've read

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Speaker 1: a million of these things, and that's why I said

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Speaker 1: great things about it when I did read it. But

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Speaker 1: I really have to put that fourth now. The other

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Speaker 1: thing that's amazing in your career. You really made it

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Speaker 1: as a teenager. Yeah, when he when Hanky Panky. When

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Speaker 1: Hanky Panky was a hit, how old were you? Uh, Well,

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Speaker 1: when I recorded it, I was sixteen when it hit.

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Speaker 1: It was two and a half years later, so I

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Speaker 1: was I had just I was just turning nineteen. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I had been in a band though since I was twelve.

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Speaker 1: If you can believe that, I started my first rock

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Speaker 1: band back in my hometown of Niles, Michigan, when I

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Speaker 1: was twelve, uh and played the seventh grade variety show

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Speaker 1: and we ended up keeping the band together. We got

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Speaker 1: such a great response, we kept the band together, and

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Speaker 1: uh I started uh performing you know, at the y

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Speaker 1: m c A. And dances all over town and wherever

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Speaker 1: they'd have us. And when I was fourteen years oh,

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Speaker 1: I made my first record, and that was I got

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Speaker 1: a job in a local record shop and one of

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Speaker 1: the distributors from an outfit called singer one stop in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: you know, would would service all the mom and pop

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Speaker 1: record stores, and Niles Michigan was one of them. And

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Speaker 1: he came in and we got to talk, and I

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Speaker 1: was fourteen years old, and I told him I had

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Speaker 1: a band, and he had a little studio up in Hastings, Michigan.

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Speaker 1: I said, uh. He said, why don't you come up

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Speaker 1: and record something? So I said, well, yeah, so I

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Speaker 1: did and that was our first record. It was a

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Speaker 1: cover of the Fireballs record Long Ponytail. And so that

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Speaker 1: was my first recording experience on a little label called

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Speaker 1: north Way Sound. And then two years later, um, a

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Speaker 1: local disc jockey was starting to record. Well wait, Lech,

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Speaker 1: let's let's stop for a second. So you were born

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Speaker 1: and your first you in what town? I was born

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Speaker 1: in Dayton, Ohio. And spent about ten minutes and what okay?

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Speaker 1: And what did your parents do in Dayton? My folks

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Speaker 1: managed a hotel. My father actually managed a hotel and

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Speaker 1: he was in the hotel business in Dayton, and uh.

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Speaker 1: We soon left after that and moved to South Bend, Indiana,

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Speaker 1: where he managed another hotel. And you know, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like being a military kid and go ahead. No,

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Speaker 1: So he was managing a hotel. South Bend is a

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Speaker 1: home of Notre Dame. How big hotel was it? Well,

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Speaker 1: I suppose a medium sized hotel. Wasn't huge. It was

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Speaker 1: called the LaSalle Hotel. And uh he stayed there for

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Speaker 1: many years. And uh, I my mother and my dad

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Speaker 1: and I there was I was an only child, lived

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Speaker 1: in South Bend and until I was seven years old,

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Speaker 1: and then we moved to Niles, Michigan, which was just

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Speaker 1: over the state line in Michigan. Okay, but do you

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Speaker 1: still work in the same hotel? Yes, Okay. So you

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Speaker 1: know there's the Helloise books or the Eloise books. Hellowise

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Speaker 1: was the cleaning person Eloise books about living at the plaza.

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Speaker 1: What's it like when your father runs a hotel? Do

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Speaker 1: you hang out at the hotel? Well, sometime we would

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Speaker 1: go down and we'd have lunch there down down in

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Speaker 1: the coffee shop. Sometimes my mom and I get my

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Speaker 1: hair cut in the hotel barbershop. You know, they had hotels,

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Speaker 1: especially ones that are on a corner, you know, have

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Speaker 1: all kinds of other little businesses. I if I hadn't

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Speaker 1: have done the music business, I would have probably gotten

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Speaker 1: to the hotel business. I loved hotels. I love sitting

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Speaker 1: in the lobby looking at the beautiful furnishings and the ceilings,

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Speaker 1: and I loved it ever since I was a little kid. So, um,

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Speaker 1: it's probably a good thing I played guitar though, just

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Speaker 1: as as I looked back. So anyway, we moved to Niles, Michigan,

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Speaker 1: and when I was seven years old, and I grew

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Speaker 1: up there. I went to school in high school there

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Speaker 1: and at the same time, Uh God, bless that little

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Speaker 1: record shop, because I got a job there. And before

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Speaker 1: before you get there, you're growing up. What kind of

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Speaker 1: kids are you? Are you smart? Are you good in school?

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Speaker 1: You're bad in school? You're a loner? You remember the group?

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Speaker 1: What was your identity growing up? Oh? I was pretty

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Speaker 1: average in school. Uh. I certainly wasn't an honor student.

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Speaker 1: I was had a lot of other activities going on,

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Speaker 1: mostly of them having to do with music, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the group. And uh, because I you know, by

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Speaker 1: the time I was twelve, I had started the group.

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Speaker 1: So I was a very average kid. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: think of anything. I played a little basketball, but not much.

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Speaker 1: I Um, I had a lot of friends, Uh, some

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Speaker 1: that I still go back to Niles to this very

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Speaker 1: day and and power with you know have I've stayed

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Speaker 1: in touch with many of them. We didn't have a

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Speaker 1: big family, but I developed a whole lot of buddies. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So how did you get a job at a record store?

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Speaker 1: I was at the right place at the right time.

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Speaker 1: Has happened so often in my life. Um, I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, had a collection of records that was, you know,

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Speaker 1: just stacks of records. I was buying records since I

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Speaker 1: was a little kid. By the way, I left something

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Speaker 1: out there. My mother used to have brought me a

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Speaker 1: record player and um and records. Uh when I was

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Speaker 1: you know, three years old and four years old, So

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Speaker 1: I had a stack of records. Um. My grandfather bought

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Speaker 1: me a ukulele and Arthur God for ukulele when I

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Speaker 1: was four, and I started playing everything I could on

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Speaker 1: that uku ale and started singing along with the radio

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Speaker 1: and stuff. And so when I was nine years old,

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Speaker 1: I saw Elvis on TV for the first time on

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Speaker 1: the Ed Sullivan Show, and the ukulele went out the window,

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Speaker 1: and I begged my mom for a guitar, uh, which

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Speaker 1: she got me and started playing the acoustic guitar. The

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Speaker 1: next year, when I was ten, I got my first

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Speaker 1: electric guitar, and uh, you know, started playing as much

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Speaker 1: electric guitar as I could hear in the radio. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so how did you learn how to play the guitar?

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Speaker 1: You owned it? But well, my mom tried to get

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Speaker 1: me lessons and I didn't want to do that. I

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Speaker 1: I taught myself how to play. I had taught myself

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Speaker 1: to ukulele, and I figured I could teach myself the guitar,

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Speaker 1: and uh, and I did so this very day. I

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Speaker 1: still don't play the guitar properly. I pre tuned the

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Speaker 1: guitar to an open e chord and uh, play rhythm.

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Speaker 1: I can't play lead worth a damn because, uh, that

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Speaker 1: requires a better knowledge of the guitar than I have.

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Speaker 1: So I play and sing. That's my job, was to

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Speaker 1: sing and accompany myself. Okay. And what was your first

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Speaker 1: electric guitar? It was made by Slingerland Drums. It was

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Speaker 1: a Slingerland guitar. It was I didn't either, but it was.

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Speaker 1: It was Slingerland. And it was a jazz guitar. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that had been and it was was owned by my

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Speaker 1: barber and my barber who cut my d a off. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know every other week. Uh, you know, it just

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Speaker 1: seems something really immoral about that. Told me my sold

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Speaker 1: me my first guitar and amp, and uh that was

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Speaker 1: the thrill of my life, getting my first electric guitar. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you got the amp simultaneously. And what was the

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Speaker 1: brand of the amp? It was an Airline amp by

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Speaker 1: Montgomery Wards. I couldn't yet afford a silver tone from Sears,

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Speaker 1: but that came later, Okay, that you know, really God

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Speaker 1: bringing it back the catalog. Okay. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: they started playing music when the Beatles broke, or even

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Speaker 1: a little bit before, they played acoustic guitars in the

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Speaker 1: folk era. You're now talking about the fifties. What is

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Speaker 1: the music scene in the fifties and what is motivating

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Speaker 1: you to play and want to have a band? Well,

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Speaker 1: all I wanted to be was one of those rock

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Speaker 1: and roll guys that I saw on Bandstein, And of

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Speaker 1: course when I saw Elvis, I knew that was a

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Speaker 1: job possibility. And so honestly, seeing Elvis had a great

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Speaker 1: impact on me when I was nine years old, and

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Speaker 1: I all I can say is that I the I

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Speaker 1: learned everything on the radio and everything I could buy

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Speaker 1: on record. And uh, I think the first guitar line

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Speaker 1: that I ever learned was Sanford Clark playing the fool. Uh.

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Speaker 1: A very famous guitar player name Al Casey played that lick.

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Speaker 1: Are you a musician? By the way, we were all musicians, okay,

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Speaker 1: we all started off. But but I am not a musician.

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Speaker 1: I had guitars, etcetera, but I had no natural talent.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, you seem to know a lot about it,

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Speaker 1: and that's I just kind of well, you know, when

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Speaker 1: the Beatles hit, etcetera. And I grew up about fifty

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Speaker 1: miles from New York City, one of the things you

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Speaker 1: would do is go into Manny's and the other place street,

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Speaker 1: uh and look at all the instruments, know all the brands,

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Speaker 1: you go to see the acts. It's just that. And

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Speaker 1: I was in bands, but not having the natural talent,

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Speaker 1: you know, nothing, even when I never played a live

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Speaker 1: gig or anything like that, although I had a lot

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Speaker 1: of friends. But since you were there before and after,

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Speaker 1: what was the change from your perspective when the Beatles

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Speaker 1: hit as opposed to what had come before? You got

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Speaker 1: motivated by Elvis all of a sudden the Beatles hit.

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Speaker 1: Why to what degree is that different? Well, my perspective

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Speaker 1: probably is different because I was working in the record shop.

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Speaker 1: This is really the end of nine. And UM, whenever

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Speaker 1: I think of the Beatles making it, I think of

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Speaker 1: two things. Uh what Capitol Records did in the record shops,

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Speaker 1: the mom and pop record shops. Uh, they had a

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Speaker 1: U the Beatles are coming little poster, little little tripods

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Speaker 1: sign shaped like a guitar, and the front of the

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Speaker 1: album of the Beatles first album, UM was on the

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Speaker 1: body of the guitar in the picture, and the Beatles

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Speaker 1: are coming. The Beatles are coming, and their faces were

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Speaker 1: turned backwards. And every week the distributor would come in

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Speaker 1: and their faces would be turned slightly to the right,

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Speaker 1: and and when their record came out they were facing

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Speaker 1: exactly forward. Every week they would change this sign. And

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Speaker 1: so I watched this happen. Uh as and of course

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Speaker 1: that the Beatles exploded. But the second thing that happened

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Speaker 1: was the Kennedy assassination. And I always associate, uh, the

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Speaker 1: killing of John Kennedy with the Beatles making it, because

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Speaker 1: they happened at exactly the same time. And UM, I've

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Speaker 1: often said that I think the only thing that made

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Speaker 1: bearable was the Beatles, because um, everything happened at once

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Speaker 1: and anyway. In my head, I always think of those

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Speaker 1: two things as being simultaneous because they were for me,

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Speaker 1: and so when the b I remember hearing the Beatles

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Speaker 1: though on jukeboxes I want to hold your hand, and

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Speaker 1: I saw our standing there the first time, and I

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Speaker 1: thought it was not very sophisticated. I thought it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of uh too, and then I went

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Speaker 1: to try to play it. I don't know if you've

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Speaker 1: ever tried playing the Beatles chord progressions, but uh, you

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Speaker 1: could make your fingers bleed because they were they were

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Speaker 1: very sophisticated. And I mean I remember going into the

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Speaker 1: bridge of I want to hold your hand, you know,

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Speaker 1: and when I think you know, the change is key

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Speaker 1: completely and it's so subtle that you don't even realize

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Speaker 1: hard Day's night. She loves you. Have you ever tried

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Speaker 1: playing she Loves You? I mean, the chords that she

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Speaker 1: Loves You are insane and and they certainly were for me.

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Speaker 1: I was playing three chords, you know, I was playing

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Speaker 1: you know cf G, you know E A b uh. Well,

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Speaker 1: the Beatles changed everything and all of a sudden, I

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Speaker 1: realized how good these guys were. And then my band

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Speaker 1: we tried to do the harmonies, and uh, they were

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Speaker 1: really something we had to rehearse. Day used to do

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Speaker 1: and on our gigs that we would usually play three

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Speaker 1: hours gigs, you know, nine to twelve or eight to

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Speaker 1: eleven for teen dances. And on the third set we

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Speaker 1: bought Beatle up fits. We actually bought them the boots,

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Speaker 1: the Beatle wigs. Uh, And as soon as we went

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Speaker 1: out on our third set, the girls started to scream.

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Speaker 1: You know if we were you know, that was the

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Speaker 1: only time, you know, if when we wore the Beetle outfits,

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Speaker 1: when we took them off, they go, So, I mean

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Speaker 1: I was into the Beatles. Okay, let's go back. You're

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Speaker 1: twelve years old, you form a band. Certainly once the

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Speaker 1: Beatles hit, everybody is playing and everybody wants to join

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Speaker 1: a band. Was it hard to assemble a band? And

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Speaker 1: what were the steps to working and to what degree

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Speaker 1: did you have gigs from when you were twelve leading

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Speaker 1: up to the Beatles. Sure, well, it's funny you say

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Speaker 1: that because on the last week's radio show that I did,

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Speaker 1: I talked about this is exactly what I talked about.

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Speaker 1: You have a serious XM show every Sunday, right correct

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Speaker 1: correct For those who might not know, it's called Getting

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Speaker 1: Together and we're on at five o'clock. So anyway, Um,

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Speaker 1: the bottom line is that when I started my band, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was just the very beginning. This is

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Speaker 1: nine I'm talking about. My first gig was sixty. I

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00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 1: was thirteen, and suddenly everyone was starting a band. Um,

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Speaker 1: the kid down the street. As long as you as

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Speaker 1: long as you own some kind of guitar, electric guitar

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Speaker 1: and knew a drummer, you could start a group. You'd

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Speaker 1: probably get a sacks player from the school band and

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Speaker 1: a kid down the street who played piano, who took

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Speaker 1: piano lessons, and you had a group. So the was

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Speaker 1: what were you going to do then? And the real challenge,

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00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,719
Speaker 1: of course, was too what are you gonna play? You know?

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Speaker 1: And you had to play at the same time, you know,

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Speaker 1: somebody had to count one to three, four and you

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Speaker 1: had to start and then you had to end at

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Speaker 1: the same time. That was a challenge. So what I'm

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Speaker 1: saying is that, um, uh, it was uh, every kid

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Speaker 1: started a band because you could see him on TV.

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Speaker 1: All the time. When the Beatles came out, it just

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Speaker 1: got worse. The Beatles really uh changed everything, as you know, Um,

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Speaker 1: I think the hair was was was interesting because kids

358
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Speaker 1: were growing there air long in school. It kind of

359
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 1: they kind of felt they had the right to do

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Speaker 1: it after no matter what the teacher said as because

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Speaker 1: of the Beatles. I mean, the Beatles really changed everything immediately.

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Speaker 1: So I loved So how do you get the gig

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Speaker 1: at the record store and what's the experience working there? Well?

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Speaker 1: I would buy my records at this particular record store.

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Speaker 1: It was called the Spinnett Record Shop in Niles, Michigan,

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Speaker 1: on Main Street. And I walked in one day and

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Speaker 1: she was letting a kid go and he had come

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Speaker 1: in late and to work, and it was about four

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Speaker 1: o'clock in the afternoon after school, and she just came

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Speaker 1: over to me. And she had known me because I

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Speaker 1: bought records there and she knew that I was in

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Speaker 1: a band and so forth. And she says, Tom, you

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Speaker 1: want a job, and I looked her I said, yes

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Speaker 1: I do. She said, all right, come in tomorrow after

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Speaker 1: school and I'll show you what to do. And I

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Speaker 1: worked there until I graduated from high school. Uh four

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Speaker 1: years later, and thank god I did, because so many

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Speaker 1: things happened to me. I it was like going to school,

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Speaker 1: it was like going to college. I learned the business

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Speaker 1: from a retail angle. I learned the trade papers, I

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Speaker 1: learned the labels, I learned the publishers, I learned the songwriters,

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Speaker 1: the artists and um, I just got a hell of

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Speaker 1: an education there that I used to this very day.

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Speaker 1: And that was I loved working there. I thought it was.

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Speaker 1: It was the coolest job in town. I don't think

386
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Speaker 1: you could have had a cooler job than working than

387
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Speaker 1: selling records in the record store if you were at

388
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Speaker 1: all music. Oh believe me. You know, people don't understand.

389
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Speaker 1: You know, you couldn't even get a job at a

390
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Speaker 1: record store. That was like the rate his job you

391
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: could get. So since you were, since you were amongst

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Speaker 1: the records, you know what, did you play all the

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Speaker 1: records and just take advantage of being in the shop. Well?

394
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Speaker 1: I did, But the problem was I also had to

395
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Speaker 1: clean up, and I didn't want anybody seeing me mopping

396
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Speaker 1: the floor, especially to girls, especially somebody else in a band.

397
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Speaker 1: So I had to go down there immediately, Uh do

398
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: the you know, and scrub the floors with the mop

399
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Speaker 1: and get that out of the way before I could

400
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Speaker 1: go behind the counter and be cool. So while the

401
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: other kids were down at Venie's Sweet shop getting cokes

402
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: and burgers after school, I was mopping the floor in

403
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: the record shop trying to get cool before they would

404
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: come up the street and stop at the record store.

405
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: So anyway, UM, that was my life for four years.

406
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Speaker 1: I forget the question you asked me, what you are

407
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: answering it? But the only other thing is, since you're

408
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Speaker 1: amongst all the records, did you play the right I

409
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: sure as hell did, and uh, we'd have new records

410
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: would come in. I think it was like every Wednesday.

411
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: I think we'd have new new product come in from

412
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: the distributor, and um yeah, I would play everything I

413
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: could get my hands on. And that's one of the

414
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: reasons why I'm able to do what I do today

415
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: with with on on serious, because um, you know, I

416
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: got an education of all the stuff, and I played

417
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: all those records from sixty two when I first got

418
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: the job, when I graduated from high school and so

419
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: and plus the fact I could promote my band out

420
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Speaker 1: of the record shop. Dickie Frusci who was She was

421
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: the She was like my second mother. She owned the

422
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: place and she would let me um put posters in

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00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: the windows of gigs and stuff like that, and she

424
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: would allow me to promote my band out of the

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Speaker 1: record shop. And that's how I got both of the

426
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: record deals that I got. Okay, So ye have the

427
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: Elvis in the fifties, before all this, you have you know,

428
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: so many other acts birth of rock and roll, the

429
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: sun acts that uh came up with him. Then we

430
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: hit the sixties, we have the folk scene. Then we

431
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: have the Four Seasons and the Beach Boys, but we

432
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: also simultaneously have Bobby Rydell and all these other acts.

433
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: Were you solely an Elvis kind of guy or did

434
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: you like all that other music there were? I loved

435
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: rock and roll, and I all I can say is that, yes,

436
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: I loved Elvis. But by nineteen sixty, Uh, of course

437
00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: Elvis was drafted, and so there were a lot of

438
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: other acts. I think, Uh, those years between Elvis leaving

439
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: the States and and the British invasion, we're we're very strange,

440
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: they're very schizophrenic. We'd have you know, puff the magic Dragon,

441
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: and we'd have uh, Eddie Cochlan, we'd have you know,

442
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: we'd have um, just this tremendous um. You know, you'd

443
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: have a lot of instrumentals. You'd have a rock instrumental,

444
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: but you'd also have Wonderland by Night by Bert Kempfort,

445
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: you'd have uh. The Top forty was just inundated with uh,

446
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: different kinds of music. Walter Brennan even had a hit,

447
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: remember Old Yeller. Yeah, of course I remember. I'm just

448
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: cracking up because I don't think think people young people

449
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: can know who Walter Brennan is. Well, yeah, the real McCoy's.

450
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: By time we got a hold of them, he was

451
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: already at the end of his career, was bringing back

452
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: the memories. So I was waiting for Gabby Hayes to

453
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: get a record. I don't so Anyway, The bottom line

454
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: was that there was such a mishmash of of music

455
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: on Top four because what Top forty meant back then

456
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: was the Top forty most popular records, whatever they were,

457
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: so uh, it doesn't mean the same anymore. So when

458
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: the Beatles came in the British Invasion, things kind of

459
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: were clarified. You know, rock and roll was the Rolling

460
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: Stones and the Animals and the Beatles, and you know,

461
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: um uh it was. It was very different than the

462
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: very early sixties. There was a lot of good R

463
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: and B though in the early sixties, which which I'm

464
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm an RMB that I love early sixties R and B. Okay,

465
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,479
Speaker 1: So you're working in the record store, you get this offer,

466
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: you make a record. A couple of questions you're gonna

467
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: answer all at once. One did you think you're gonna

468
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: make a career in music? B? How many bands did

469
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: you go through? See? How did you end up recording

470
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: Hanky Panky? Oh boy, this is a lot of stuff. Okay.

471
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: Um yes, I honestly did believe I was going to

472
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: make a career out of it. But that was my

473
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: stupidity because h and my ignorance back then, because what

474
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: I was doing was praying that I could make a

475
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: career out of it. Actually and uh, but I remember

476
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: when I made our first record, Long Ponytail. The name

477
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: of my group, by the way, was the Tornadoes back then,

478
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: and the Tornadoes that became Tom and the Tornadoes on

479
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: the record of Long Ponytail and Judy on the other side.

480
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: And um, I remember driving to the studio when I

481
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: was fourteen, thinking that this is the beginning of something

482
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: really important. It turned out to be, but of course

483
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: I had no no way of really knowing that. Um uh.

484
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: And I was so glad to have a record out.

485
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how glad I was, how how

486
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: happy I was, and how just seeing your name on

487
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: a record and hearing your voice on a on a

488
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: on a piece of avinyl. It was just the most

489
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: incredible thing in the world. And I actually heard it

490
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: a few times on the radio. But then, of course

491
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: the record died and that was the end of that.

492
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: So that was my core court recording career. So uh.

493
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: The next one, as I said, came about about a

494
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: year and a half, close to two years later, and

495
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: I was sixteen, and uh this was the end of

496
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: nineteen and I was I was asked if I would

497
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: if I would record for this little label, Snap Records. Uh.

498
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: Jack Douglas the not the famous Jack Douglas, but a

499
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: disc jockey from Niles, Michigan. He was the morning man

500
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: on de WI n I l was starting a little

501
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: label and when he asked me to do it, I

502
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: just I said, hell, yes, let's do it. And so

503
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: we recorded uh uh four sides for him, and to

504
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: the first two he put out, there were his song.

505
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: We had to do his crappy little song in order

506
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: to do our crappy little song. So we had to

507
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: do We did. It was called Pretty Little Red Bird,

508
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: and we put it out. We were embarrassed, but we

509
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: put it out. Thankfully. It died quick and then we

510
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: were going to put something out. And I happened to

511
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: be out at a club one Sunday and I saw

512
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: a group play a record called Hanky Panky, and um,

513
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: the group was named the Spinners, but they weren't the

514
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 1: R and B group The Spinners. There was a local group.

515
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: And but I saw the reaction of the kids on

516
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 1: the dance floor and they must have got asked half

517
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 1: a dozen times to repeat Hanky Panky. The kids went

518
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: nuts fort and I said, that's what we're gonna do,

519
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: and I we went into the studio. I forgot the

520
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: words to it too. I had there was a real song,

521
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: and I went back to the record shop and we

522
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: looked up Hanky Panky and it turns out that it

523
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: was on the flip side of a record by the

524
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: rain Drops called that Boy John and which was Jeff

525
00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: Berry and Ali Greenwich and uh, but it was taken

526
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: off the air because, uh, that Boy John was about

527
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: John Kennedy and John Kennedy had just been assassinated, and

528
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: so the record came off the market and the B

529
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: side went with it, so that then that's what it was,

530
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: was on the flip side of that Boy John. And

531
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: um So anyway, we went in the studio and all

532
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: I could remember is my baby does the hanky Panky

533
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: and a few we made up a few other lines

534
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: and that was it, and we put the record out

535
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 1: and it was a smash locally. I had just gotten

536
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: my first manager and his name was Frank Fabiano. That

537
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: was isn't that a great name? Frank Fabia Yeah, and

538
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: it and it's uh. And his father was a cohort,

539
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: Frank Fabiano, Sr. Of al Capone in Chicago, and he

540
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: Fabriano's owned the jukebox business within fifty miles. So Frank

541
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: Fabriano Jr. Became our our first manager, and uh, hanky

542
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: Panky actually went in the jukeboxes with printed you don't

543
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: know how important this is, printed title strips. You know,

544
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: you didn't have to write them by hand. They were

545
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: printed professionally, and that was a big deal. You have

546
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: no idea how thrilling that was. And so we're on

547
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 1: all the jukeboxes and it made a lot of noise.

548
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: We couldn't get go any further really than southern Michigan

549
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: northern Indiana because we had no distribution. So UM the

550
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: record again came and went. So when I graduated from

551
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: high school in we were playing all those years. And

552
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: when I graduated, I took my band on the road

553
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: and we were playing. We got an agent out of Chicago,

554
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: and this is right after high school, and we're playing

555
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: UH six nights a week in clubs throughout the Midwest.

556
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: And I'm playing Janesville, Wisconsin in early sixty six in

557
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: this dumpy little club and right in the middle of

558
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: my two weeks, the guy goes belly up because the

559
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 1: I r S shuts him down for not paying his taxes.

560
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: This true story. And so we go home feeling like dogs.

561
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: And as soon as I get home. That's how God works, though,

562
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 1: because as soon as I got home, UM, I got

563
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: the call that changed my life. UH distributor in Pittsburgh.

564
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: Fenway Distributors in Pittsburgh calls me and tracks me down

565
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: because one copy of The record ended up in Pittsburgh

566
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: and they put it on. They played it at dances.

567
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: The kids flipped, this is Hanky Panky I'm talking about.

568
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: It goes on. And by the way, we had changed

569
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: our name to the shan Delves when we made Hanky Pank,

570
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: so um they they the kids went nuts for it. It

571
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: It went on the radio. They bootlegged eighty thousand of

572
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: them and sold them in ten days, and we were

573
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: sitting at number one. That's just the hand of the

574
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 1: Good Lord. I had nothing to do with that. Only

575
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: in America. Only in America could something like that happened.

576
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: And they tracked me down because it said Niles Michigan

577
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: on the labels Snap Records, Niles Michigan. Who do they

578
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: call the record shop that I used to work in.

579
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: All these little miracles happened one right after another, and

580
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: she gives him did she gives him my home phone number?

581
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 1: And I just happened to be home at that exact

582
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: minute because we got let We got let go from

583
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: the club who went to the I R S shutdown.

584
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: So if all those things hadn't happened in a row.

585
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: The longer I'm in this business, the more I realized

586
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: what a million to one shot. And I'm very, very thankful.

587
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: I I can't tell you how how thankful I am

588
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: to have had those things happen, all those little miracles

589
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: in a row. And well, okay, in the interim, your

590
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: girlfriend gets pregnant and you get married, Yes, I do.

591
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: What the hell is going through your mind when that happens.

592
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,959
Speaker 1: I wish somebody had sent me to my room. All

593
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: I can say is is that, uh, things just sort

594
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: of happened to me quickly. Um. I was a senior

595
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: in high school and my girlfriend that I've been going

596
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: with for a couple of years, Diane, uh, informed me

597
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: that she was going to have a baby. I'm a senior,

598
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: she's a senior. We go to we went to different schools.

599
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: I was in study hall in April of sixty five.

600
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 1: I get handed a blue slip. It says it's a boy.

601
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: I said what, And of course I knew it was

602
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 1: going to happen rather soon, but I didn't know what

603
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 1: was going to happen that day. And the office came

604
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 1: down and handed me a slip of paper that said

605
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: it it's a boy. So I had to leave school

606
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 1: and I went down to the office and told him,

607
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I have to leave. My wife's having a baby,

608
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: so that they didn't know anything. They said, what So

609
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: I left and I went over to St. Joseph Hospital

610
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: in South Bend, and sure enough I was a dad.

611
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: So Um, basically what happened is, uh, Diane and I

612
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: lived at my parents house until I graduated from high school.

613
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 1: She had to she had to quit school obviously, and

614
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: so I couldn't work in the record shop and play

615
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: teen dances anymore. I had to make a living, so, uh,

616
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: I didn't. I almost took a day job. I mean,

617
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: this is the whole thing about I don't know how

618
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: far you want to get into this because I'm I'm

619
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm rambling on, but it's all Oh no,

620
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: this is all great stuff. Is exactly what I want.

621
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 1: So tell me about almost taking a day job. Yeah,

622
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,720
Speaker 1: so there was a there was a store called John's

623
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: Bargain Store in South Bend, Indiana, and they wanted to

624
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: hire me as a manager right out of high school.

625
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: And uh, I said no, no, no, let's say I

626
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: Actually the day I drove over there um to to

627
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: take this job, I got about halfway there and I

628
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 1: stopped the car. So I can't do this. I'm supposed

629
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: to be a musician. I can't do this. What am

630
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: I gonna do? I'm just gonna end everything right here

631
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: and sell T shirts and preparation hs the rest of

632
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: my life? What am I gonna do? So? Uh? I

633
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: turned the car around, went back home, and in about

634
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: an hour and a half, I get a call from

635
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: the drummer from that group, the Spinners that I saw play,

636
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: Hanky Banky his name was Hank Randolph and called me

637
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: and said, look, two of the other guys are drafted.

638
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: I've got a bunch of gigs. Can can we can

639
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: we put a group together to play six nights a

640
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: week us God is God is really Yes, yes we can.

641
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: So that honestly is how it happened. And I we

642
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: started playing. We started a new group called the Coachman

643
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: spelled with a K and uh. That was the group

644
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: that I ended up taking uh through the Midwest, you

645
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: know that I ended up playing with in james Ville

646
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: when when we got let go, that was that was

647
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: the group. So that's how fast it all happened. And

648
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: I went when I went back, and of course I'm

649
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: sending money home every week being trying to be a

650
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: good dad and a husband. Um, that's how that happened.

651
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 1: I mean, where are Diane and the boy today? Brian

652
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: lives about thirty miles from me here in New Jersey.

653
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: He's uh uh married to a great gal. Uh uh.

654
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: He is a design engineer in New York, goes back

655
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: and forth from Jersey to New York. And uh, I

656
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: love him dearly and he's my only child as well.

657
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: And Diane, we're all friends. Uh still I'm I'm married again,

658
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: but uh, Diane and I are still friends. And she's

659
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: still back in Niles, Michigan. She's remarried, and uh we

660
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 1: all care about each other. Strangely enough, isn't that something

661
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: all's well, that ends well? Okay, So Hanky Panky is

662
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: a local hit. You go to New York to get

663
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: a record deal. Tell us how you end up on

664
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: Roulette Records? Oh god, okay, you want the full blast?

665
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: Don't absolutely all? Right? Well, Um, when Hanky Panky broke

666
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: out in Pittsburgh, it was a major market, so that

667
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 1: was a big deal. And I went to Pittsburgh at

668
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: their request and did local TV, and uh I had

669
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: to pick up another band because I couldn't put the

670
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: original back together, and so I UH, I got my

671
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: first manager in my first manager after Hanky Panky in Pittsburgh,

672
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: UM and UH got a new group from Pittsburgh that

673
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: became the new Shandls, And a week later we were

674
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: in New York selling the Master and it was amazing.

675
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: I had never been to New York, you know, I'm

676
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: a hic from Niles, Michigan. And we make all the rounds.

677
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: We pick up fella by name of Chuck Ruben. Bob

678
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: Mack was the fellow who became my first manager and

679
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: who was the disc jockey who played Hanky Panky first

680
00:45:52,400 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: on UH dances that he he had. So UM we

681
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 1: go to New York and make the rounds. Bob Mack

682
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: myself and felt the name of Chuck Rubin who's a

683
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:12,959
Speaker 1: booking agent, and we went to UH CBS and got

684
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 1: a yes because we had a regional breakout in the

685
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: trade papers with Hankey Pankey and from making it in Pittsburgh,

686
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: so we got We've got a yes from CBS. We

687
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 1: got a yes from Rona Lexembourg at EPIC, we got

688
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: a yes from um Our c A, we got a

689
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: yes from Kamas Sutra. I don't know if you remember.

690
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: Camasuit director Ore rd Rip was all these people have

691
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: become my friends over the years. But got a yes

692
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 1: from camas Sutra and yes from Atlantic, and so I

693
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: was on cloud nine. We just got a yes. We

694
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: never got turned down, didn't get it turned down every anywhere.

695
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: So I went to bed feeling really good that night.

696
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: By the way, the last place they went to was Roulette. Uh.

697
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: And because I was just too tired, I went back

698
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: to the hotel. Bob and Chuck took the record to Roulette.

699
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: Morris Levy was out of town, so Red Schwartz, who

700
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: was the promotion man, took the record and played it

701
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 1: and uh, and they said, yeah, they wanted it. So

702
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: the following morning, I slept thinking we were going to

703
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 1: be with one of the big corporate labels and probably

704
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: CBS or r C A and uh. The next morning

705
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: I get up and the phone starts ringing and it

706
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: was all the record companies that had said yesterday before,

707
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: And one after another they called up and said, listen, Tom,

708
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, but we gotta pass. What do you

709
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: mean you gotta pass? I thought we had a deal,

710
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: and uh, so I Finally Jerry uh uh, Jerry Wexler

711
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: at Atlantic told me the truth that Maurice Levy from

712
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,720
Speaker 1: Roulette had called up all the other labels and threatened

713
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: them and basically said, this is my fucking artist, excuse

714
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: my French back off. And that's how we talked to

715
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: right out on the movies. So uh he uh he

716
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: literally backed him down, including CBS. And I was apparently

717
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: going to be on Roulette. It was the first offer

718
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: I couldn't refuse. And we go and uh so, uh,

719
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 1: I go to Roulette and I meet all these people

720
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, Morris, as I said, was right

721
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: out of the movies, Morris Levy from Roulette. He was

722
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: every bit of gamester and he talked like this, you

723
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, and uh you shook hands with him.

724
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: It was like grabbing a catcher's mith. That's all I

725
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: can and he but he was fascinating. You couldn't take

726
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: your eyes off the guy he was. He was like

727
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: a great actor and so at any rate. H he

728
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,720
Speaker 1: explained if we how it was gonna work, We're gonna

729
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,439
Speaker 1: do this, we're gonna do that, some of that over there,

730
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 1: and I meet Red Schwartz, and I meet uh oh

731
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 1: so uh uh, who's the big dish shockey? Not Alan Freed,

732
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: the guy who took his Oh god, Mariva Ka Marya

733
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 1: Kay was sitting in the office, as was George Goldner,

734
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,439
Speaker 1: who we had been to we had seen the day

735
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: before at Red Bird Records, and he gave us a

736
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: yes too. By the way, I forgot to mention him.

737
00:49:54,600 --> 00:50:00,919
Speaker 1: So they're all sitting in Morris's office and Okay, all

738
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: I can say is that, you know, they brought out

739
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: the contracts uh, and we signed then and there and

740
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: and he says to me, and this was this ended

741
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: up being the subtitle of our book. He said, I

742
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 1: hope you're ready to kick, because you're going on one

743
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: hell of a ride. He actually said that to me.

744
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: I said, good, that's great. And so at any rate,

745
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: I had no idea who I was rubbing shoulders with.

746
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: I had no idea what was going on. We learned incrementally, Um,

747
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: you know, we'd meet somebody in Morris's office and a

748
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: week later we'd see him on TV uh being escorted

749
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: by the police out of a warehouse in New Jersey.

750
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: Is isn't that the guy who just met Morris's office?

751
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 1: And that was true. That really happened, and it kept happening.

752
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: We started recognizing famous gangsters, We started recognizing people that

753
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,760
Speaker 1: we knew from TV, and they were up in Morris's office,

754
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: as was Cardinal Spellman. Uh you name it. They were

755
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: up in Morris's office. And so anyway, Karen, who was

756
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: Morris's secretary, explained who these people were and that this

757
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:25,280
Speaker 1: was the Genevese family. It turns out Roulette, in addition

758
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: to being a functioning indie label, was also a front

759
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: for the Genevese crime family. So this made life really interesting.

760
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: We couldn't talk about any of this stuff. And uh so,

761
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: while we're hanky panking and money, money and stuff that's

762
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: very dark and sinister, story is going on behind us

763
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: that we really couldn't say a word about. And a

764
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: lot of people in the business knew, you know, but

765
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 1: but but you know, the fans certainly didn't know it. Okay,

766
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,720
Speaker 1: this lad game needless just say, Morris ripped you off,

767
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: but you were a big star. Would you have been

768
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,760
Speaker 1: as big without Roulette Records? I don't think so. In fact,

769
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,399
Speaker 1: I know so, because if we had gone with one

770
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,919
Speaker 1: of the corporate labels, every time I start to say

771
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 1: something really bad about Roulette or Morris, I stopped myself

772
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: because the truth is, if it wasn't for Morris LEEVI,

773
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: there wouldn't have been a Tommy James Um if we

774
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: had gone with one of the corporate labels. I can

775
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: tell you right now, if we'd gone with CBS, we

776
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: would have been turned over to an in house a

777
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: and our guy, and that's the last you would have

778
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: heard from us, especially with a record like Hanky Panky,

779
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, uh we would have and the competition would

780
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 1: have been unbelievable. It was how did you ever have

781
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: a get getting noticed? With all the competition from from

782
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: any of these labels. And so at Roulette they actually

783
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 1: needed us. They hadn't had a hit since the Essex

784
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 1: in sixty three was easier said than done, and and

785
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: uh so they were hurting for a hit, and so

786
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: they gave us the keys to the candy store. They

787
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: really did in every way I was. I learned my

788
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: craft at Roulette. I would have never learned street level

789
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,399
Speaker 1: record business at any other label. And I certainly would

790
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,399
Speaker 1: have not been able to put my own production crew.

791
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 1: They trusted me with putting my own production crew together

792
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: and and uh, bringing in songwriters and and you know,

793
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: songs from other labels and stuff. They trusted me to

794
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: do all that that would have never happened at another label. Now,

795
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: you had a lot of hits at Roulette. Some of

796
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: these records, as we say, were just in. It was

797
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: just in the grooves, just had to hear it. But

798
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,360
Speaker 1: what was their specials sauce to make sure one of

799
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: your records was a hit? How much was muscle money

800
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: or it was just the record? Well, how did they

801
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:13,720
Speaker 1: bring it to the top? Hey, blay to freaking record?

802
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: All right, No, that's not true. That's I'm making that up. Um. Honestly,

803
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,760
Speaker 1: we were the biggest act on the label that helped

804
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: a lot. Roulette was a well known label, so so

805
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: it wasn't like, you know, they'd had Luke Christie, and

806
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: they'd had Joey did and the Starlighters, and they had

807
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 1: Jimmy Bone, Buddy Knocks, they had, oh god, the pony Tails.

808
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: They had just a lot of hit records. They were

809
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: great at selling singles and radio knew him. Red Schwartz,

810
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,399
Speaker 1: by the way, I credit more than anyone up there.

811
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: Red Shorts taught me the radio business and he was

812
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: a disc jockey himself from Philly, and he knew all

813
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: these disc jockeys. He knew them all. He sat me

814
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: down and made me learn the names of all these guys,

815
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: who their kids were, who what their wives names were.

816
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: When I talked to him, uh uh, you know, I

817
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: could I talk to them as a friend. And uh

818
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: we were we became a radio act more than that.

819
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: You know, some acts are big concert acts, they're big songwriters.

820
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: And we were a right we were created by radio.

821
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: And I think that's the best way to do it,

822
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: because that's you know, back then, on an a M.

823
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 1: The a M stations, you played about a dozen you

824
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,280
Speaker 1: got on about you know, l S and Chicago and

825
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: CFL and and ABC in New York and uh k

826
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: R l A out out in l A and k

827
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: UP our seat in San Francisco. You got about a

828
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 1: dozen stations. You had the whole nation. A M radio

829
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: was unbelieved evable. And the number of people that they covered,

830
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: the you know LS at Night covered thirty eight states,

831
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: for God's sake. And so what I'm saying is um

832
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: Roulette was very good at promoting singles albums. They didn't

833
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: do so much that came later, but um ah, singles

834
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 1: was there Forte and Morris knew how to do it.

835
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: And he used all independent distributors too. He could have

836
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 1: been with anybody, but of course he couldn't have cheated

837
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: as well. But uh, you know, and he used all

838
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: indie distributors that he basically controlled. So honestly, at another label,

839
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: I don't think we would have had any a fraction

840
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 1: of the success that we had at Roulette. Okay, so

841
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 1: the records you hit, they send you on the road.

842
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: You come back to the office and Morris says, I'm waiting,

843
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: which time are you talking about? Which I'm trying to say.

844
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 1: If you read the book, he's constantly demanding new product, yes,

845
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: while the other product is you know, hasn't fallen off yet.

846
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 1: Well that's true. Um we were, we were. We were

847
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: putting out five singles a year, and Morris would crack

848
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 1: the whip for another single. But he was you know,

849
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: what what do you would do is like he whatever

850
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: your hit was, that became the name of your album,

851
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: Like the first album was the Hanky Panky album. Could

852
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: have called It's something else with Hankey Pap, but no,

853
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: the Hanky. He knew how to sell stuff, uh, and

854
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: and immediately went gold and the ultimately platinum. But but

855
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: Hanky Packy the album made it right out of the box. Um,

856
00:57:55,360 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: but you know he he that was That was probably

857
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 1: more luck than anything else. They were not great at

858
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: selling albums until Crimson and Clover. But the point I'm

859
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: trying to make is that, Uh Morris, You're right. He

860
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: always wanted more product, and so we were constantly I

861
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 1: couldn't sleep until I had the next single in the camp.

862
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: But that was good. That's why we had twenty three

863
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: gold singles were lette okay, so you know the Hanky

864
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 1: Panky was a cover. You need new records. How do

865
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: you come up with the material? Well, this is another

866
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 1: stroke of luck. I was you know, I the band

867
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: could write somewhat. We we our second record, Say I Am,

868
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 1: was by the way Lightning struck twice. We went back.

869
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: Uh Bob Mack went back to the same record bin.

870
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: He found Hanky Panky and and pulled the fireballs Say

871
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: I Am, and Uh brought it to New York and

872
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: we were in the in Bell Sound Studios doing a

873
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: Hankey Pankey album, and he brought in Say I Am,

874
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: and we learned it note for note, and that became

875
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 1: our second gold record. So we were very lucky with that. Well,

876
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 1: right then I met Richie Cordell and Bow Gentry. Richie

877
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: Cordell Saltramachi and Bow Gentry. How did you meet him? Okay,

878
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: um the Red Swartz secretary. Uh, Ronnie, she became well.

879
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: I we started hitting it off and we began going out.

880
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: And Uh, I was a married man, had no business

881
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: doing this stuff, but shame on me, that's what I did.

882
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 1: So Ronnie, I was going to take her out one

883
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: night and I met her at her apartment and she

884
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: had a roommate named Linda and not my landa another

885
00:59:56,240 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: land and so um, Linda's boyfriend was this crazy little

886
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: songwriter named Richie Cordell. And when I went to pick

887
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: Ronnie up, I started. She had a little record player

888
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 1: on the on the floor and UM some demos and

889
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: I played a demo of a song UH called hold

890
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 1: on to Him. And I played it and I said,

891
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: who who is this? I said, this is a hit record,

892
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 1: this is a smash. Who is this? She said, Oh,

893
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: that's my roommate's boyfriend, Richie. You want to meet him?

894
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, Well, it turns out. All these guys

895
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: were writers for Hardie RiPP over Cama Sutra. Richie and

896
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 1: sal Uh and Bow Gentry were all um all writers

897
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: over Cama Sutra. So the next night I went up

898
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: and I met Richie, and Richie and I hit it off.

899
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: He was like, you know, he was like a little

900
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: mad scientist. I loved him and he became uh. He

901
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 1: and Bow Gentry became my producers and songwriters. And the

902
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: first record we put out was Its Only Love, written

903
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 1: by Richie and salth Romachi, and that went top twenty.

904
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: Didn't blow the doors down, but it was a big record.

905
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 1: And then Bow and Richie brought me I think we're

906
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 1: alone now. And when they brought it to me, it

907
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 1: was a ballad. I mean it was, you know, not

908
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: a real slow about but a slow mid temple ballad.

909
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 1: And we went in the studio. As soon as I

910
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: heard the hook, that's that's a smash. That what a

911
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: great hook that is. And we went into the studio

912
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 1: over at Allegro. I changed studios Allegro, which was at

913
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: the basement of exteen fIF Broadway, um At anyway, So

914
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 1: they we went in in the studio and that's where

915
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: I came up, I said, why don't we speed this

916
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: thing up? And I was playing the eighth notes, the

917
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: doom doo doo doo doo doo doom doom do. I

918
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 1: was That's what I was playing. I just came up

919
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: with that on the guitar and we started UH doing

920
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: the doing the demo with with sped up with Boasting

921
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 1: in the league. So it came out great, and we

922
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: took it back and played it for Morris and he

923
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 1: loved it, and that was gonna be the next single.

924
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: And so I got Jimmy Wissner. Uh. Karen asked me

925
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: if I wanted an arranger, and I said, I remembered

926
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: seeing Jimmy Wissner's name on a label of one to

927
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: three by Lynn Barry a year before that, because I

928
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 1: bought the record so I could learn how to play

929
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: with my group. And so I said Jimmy Wissner and

930
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 1: she said, yeah, I think so, So she calls Jimmy Wisner.

931
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: He comes up the next day. So bo Richie, myself,

932
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Wissner became like the production team and UH,

933
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 1: the engineer Bruce Staple was the fifth member of the team.

934
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: But these guys had to deal with Cama Sutra. How

935
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 1: did you get around that? Morris Levy? Morris Levy as

936
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 1: it took, turns out put already ripping business over at

937
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 1: Cama Sutra, and so he owed him a few favors.

938
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 1: So he calls up already ripped. Morrise calls up already says, listen,

939
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 1: my artists wants to do one of his songs with you,

940
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: with you, with your with your couple of year guys.

941
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: He said, I need him over here. Okay. So we

942
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: got him, We got him, We got them all and

943
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: they became our writers, uh and our producers. And that

944
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: was the first production team that that we put together.

945
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: And that was a lifesaver because I uh did not

946
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 1: have the songs to further my career. So if if

947
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 1: Bow and Richie hadn't come along at the moment they did,

948
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 1: I don't know what would have become. My career would

949
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: have probably ended with It's Only Love all I say,

950
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 1: I am. So you have hit records. To what degree

951
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: are you going on the road and what are your

952
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: experiences on the road. Well, um, that summer of sixty

953
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: we were on the road constantly. After Hanky Pank and

954
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 1: um I I we were working with a lot of

955
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: the other groups. I did my first arena dates I

956
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: had never done before, the biggest crowds we ever worked too,

957
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: um I had. I made a lot of friends in

958
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: the business. Um it really was. Uh. You know, when

959
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 1: you're when you're eighteen nineteen years old and you're out

960
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 1: on the road with a hit record, life is good

961
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 1: and uh you don't notice that you're burning the candle

962
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 1: at both ends. You don't notice that you're dog tired.

963
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: You know, you're just partying in the nighttime and traveling

964
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 1: in the daytime. I remember we traveled in a station

965
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: wagon and we hauled our own equipment. This is before

966
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 1: got invented roadies and uh so, uh, you know it was.

967
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 1: It was a real adventure that first year, but I

968
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 1: loved it. I think of that first summer of sixty

969
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 1: as the most fun part of my life. I think, So,

970
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 1: who are you on the road with? And what was

971
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 1: it like meeting those people? A year before are I

972
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: had been selling records, selling all these people's records now

973
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: I'm working with And I'll never forget the first big

974
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 1: arena date that I played, uh in Montgomery, Alabama at

975
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 1: the Civic Arena down there, and I'm working with uh

976
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 1: Lou Christie. We were the opening act. Hanky Banky had

977
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 1: just been on the charts about three weeks and we

978
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 1: were the opening act and we opened and Luke Christie

979
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: was on the show. Uh. This is about a year

980
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 1: after he had lightning strikes and uh, he had so

981
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: many hits and the animals and Hermann's Hermit's and they

982
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 1: were all at their peak. I felt I felt like

983
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: my voice was changing him. Tommy James. So I remember

984
01:06:53,680 --> 01:07:00,240
Speaker 1: going up to Eric Burdon and introducing myself to him. Hey,

985
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 1: I'm Tommy James. I want to and he goes, who

986
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 1: the bloody hell are you? Who the bloody hell are you?

987
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: And hey, they were animals right, So anyway, so Herman's

988
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 1: Hermits couldn't have been nicer and they were. Uh. We

989
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 1: spent the night partying with them. And uh. That was

990
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:27,360
Speaker 1: my first gig with Peter Noon and the Hermits. And

991
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 1: I'm still working with him today on serious radio. Okay,

992
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: what about the money? The what the money? Well, you're

993
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: on the on the road. The act is getting paid something.

994
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 1: You can see all the economics are completely different from

995
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 1: what they are today. Hey, are you just getting a

996
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 1: per diem and burning the kid on both ends, and

997
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:56,439
Speaker 1: you have no idea what's going on. It wasn't that bad.

998
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 1: We were we were, we were. We were making I

999
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 1: don't know the first summer, probably five thousand a night

1000
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: or something like that for the first few weeks, and

1001
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 1: it just went up incrementally from there with each record.

1002
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 1: Uh No, we made money on the road, and we

1003
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 1: made money from B M I from our paltry songwriting

1004
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 1: back then, and uh, mechanical royalties we just weren't getting.

1005
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 1: And that was a real interesting well showdown, I'll call

1006
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:35,719
Speaker 1: it the um We knew. I knew because the guys

1007
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 1: were really salary musicians, but I knew that I was

1008
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 1: supposed to be getting royalties from selling all these records

1009
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: and they weren't. It wasn't happening. So Uh, I got

1010
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 1: a lawyer, uh I won't mention his name, and who

1011
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 1: went up to Morris Levy and he was gonna get

1012
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 1: my royalties. And he comes out and he's slapping Morris

1013
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 1: on the back. I knew that was bad sign. I

1014
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 1: knew that wasn't good. So at any rate, what happened was, uh,

1015
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 1: we were told, in no uncertain terms to be to

1016
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 1: not to push it, because what happened to Jimmie Rodgers

1017
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 1: could happen to us. And I guess you know what

1018
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 1: happened to Jimmy Rogers. He was left for dead on

1019
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: an l A freeway because he was uh suing for

1020
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 1: his royalties. And he was a very athletic guy, very muscular,

1021
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 1: in good shape, and he was he was never the

1022
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: same after that. And he he survived it, but just barely.

1023
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 1: And so we knew what could happen if we pushed it.

1024
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 1: And so the bottom line was I sort of took

1025
01:09:55,160 --> 01:10:00,080
Speaker 1: a salary for a while, uh in addition to but

1026
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,679
Speaker 1: that was how I was gonna get and by the way,

1027
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 1: my writing moneys weren't going to come either, because don't forget,

1028
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: I was cross collateralized. Whoa, And so that I became

1029
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 1: very familiar with that term cross collateralized. That meant you

1030
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 1: weren't getting anything. So did you even get state did

1031
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: you even get statements? Uh? No? No. But we were

1032
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:36,800
Speaker 1: having one hit after another and we're making a lot

1033
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: of money on the road, and I was we had

1034
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 1: to make a conscious decision do we try to go

1035
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:48,919
Speaker 1: after our money because by this time we were good earners,

1036
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 1: as they say, So do we try to go after

1037
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:55,680
Speaker 1: our money? Do we try? Do we sue him? What

1038
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 1: do we do? Or do we just go along to

1039
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 1: get along and keep having hits. So I think in

1040
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 1: Hindstein we probably did the right thing. We uh, we

1041
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,639
Speaker 1: didn't make a big fuss every now and then I did,

1042
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 1: and I would I would get large chunks of money, um,

1043
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 1: you know, handed to me, but regular mechanical royalties when

1044
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 1: they were supposed to happen, weren't going to happen. So

1045
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 1: in the end I think I made the right decision.

1046
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 1: Plus now I get to tell the story. And so

1047
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 1: how big were these chunks of cash that Morris would

1048
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: give you? Oh sometimes twenty and thirty and forty, but

1049
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 1: not very often. And we figured out at the end

1050
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 1: that he ot us between thirty and forty million dollars

1051
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 1: um just in mechanicals and the publishing. I would have

1052
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:01,479
Speaker 1: been a little bit more than it would have been

1053
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: a lot more than that actually, But um, the way

1054
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 1: this came to a head was amazing. I don't know

1055
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 1: if you want me to skip ahead and tell her.

1056
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:11,680
Speaker 1: I don't know how much you wanted ye tell tell

1057
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:16,439
Speaker 1: us how it came to a head. Well, Um, my

1058
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 1: accountant Aaron Scheckter well more Morris. Okay, Morris had left

1059
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 1: the country for a while. Ah. There was a gang

1060
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 1: war in seventy one in New York when the Gambinos

1061
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 1: were taking over uh the other families. Uh, and Morris

1062
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:45,760
Speaker 1: was on the wrong side, and Morris left town. He

1063
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:51,680
Speaker 1: and Nate mccallo, who was his bodyguard, went to went

1064
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 1: to Spain and they came back. Um. And while he

1065
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 1: was away in Spain, Uh, my accountant, um sort of

1066
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 1: did a tally. Only they didn't try to go after

1067
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 1: the books. Everybody tries to go after the book. He

1068
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 1: went after the labels that we're being printed, uh, by

1069
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:26,600
Speaker 1: various printers. This tactic had never been tried before. I

1070
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:31,600
Speaker 1: don't think anyway. We got an honest count from the

1071
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 1: labels that were printed certain discount you know for DJ

1072
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 1: copies and stuff like that and returns, but we got

1073
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:42,719
Speaker 1: a pretty damn good count and it was somewhere between

1074
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 1: thirty and forty million dollars. And we He went to

1075
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 1: Morris with that information. When Morris got back, and Morris

1076
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 1: told him to know uncertain terms if he if he

1077
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 1: tried to use that against him. They'd be fishing him

1078
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 1: out of a river. So that was the end of

1079
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 1: my uh investigation of into Morris's bank roll. So um Anyway,

1080
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:24,800
Speaker 1: shortly after that, um uh, Morris's partner up in up

1081
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 1: at Roulette, Tommy Everley, who, by the way, he became

1082
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 1: the head of the Genevese family uh uh. When Video

1083
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: Genevies died in prison h on Valentine's Day and sixty nine,

1084
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 1: Tommy Everley became that of the family. And he was

1085
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:45,800
Speaker 1: then killed in seventy two and July of seventy two,

1086
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:51,080
Speaker 1: and all hell broke loose at Roulette and I said

1087
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 1: to Morris, I'm out of here. I am out of here.

1088
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 1: He said, you ain't going anywhere. I said, I am

1089
01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 1: out of here. I said, shoot me, I don't care.

1090
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 1: I'm done. I can't. I can't deal with this anymore.

1091
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:07,400
Speaker 1: And I It took me two years of not recording anything,

1092
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:12,600
Speaker 1: no more albums. Morris put out a few of the

1093
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 1: singles that had UH that were in the can, but

1094
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 1: I never did another album after that, And finally he

1095
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:25,839
Speaker 1: let me go in seventy four and I went Fantasy.

1096
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 1: So I had one record out an m c A

1097
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 1: and then I had. Then I went to Fantasy Records

1098
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: out on it in Berkeley and got as far away

1099
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 1: from New York. Is like good for the next couple

1100
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 1: of albums. But anyway, that's a long story. Uh, I'm

1101
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 1: sorry I took us off. No, no, no, that's great.

1102
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:44,760
Speaker 1: All this is great. Let's go back to some of

1103
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:48,600
Speaker 1: the records needless to save between the Beatles Citty and

1104
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 1: sixty four and seventy one or so, there were many scenes,

1105
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:58,120
Speaker 1: many developments. So when from May M to f and etcetera,

1106
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,559
Speaker 1: how did you come up with Crimson and Clover. Well

1107
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 1: that's the moment of truth Crimson and Clover, because uh,

1108
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:11,640
Speaker 1: we had come off a money money and then and

1109
01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:15,799
Speaker 1: Morris had a falling out with Bow and Richie. Richie

1110
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 1: came back, Bow went to Casnets and Cats and did

1111
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:25,560
Speaker 1: bubble Gum records on LORI and Richie came with me

1112
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 1: and so we did money money together. We did h

1113
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 1: do oneto Me, We did a couple of other singles

1114
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 1: and do do something to Me? And then finally I

1115
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 1: just decided so much was going on in Um. We

1116
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:51,839
Speaker 1: got Hubert Humphreys office called as he was running for president,

1117
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:58,720
Speaker 1: and Hubert Humphreys office contacted Roulette and wanted to know

1118
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 1: if we would join him on the camp on the

1119
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:08,760
Speaker 1: presidential campaign, which we did, and while I was on

1120
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 1: that campaign, the whole industry turned upside down. We left

1121
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: in August and we came back in November, and while

1122
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 1: we were gone, the industry had gone from singles to

1123
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 1: albums in ninety days. I couldn't believe it. When we

1124
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 1: left in August, the big acts were Gary Puckett, um Us,

1125
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:38,760
Speaker 1: the Rascals, the Association, its writer. I'm leaving a lot

1126
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 1: of people out, but it was all singles. When we

1127
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:45,759
Speaker 1: got back ninety days later, it was Led Zeppelin, Crosby,

1128
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:50,559
Speaker 1: Stills and Nash, Joe Cocker, Blood, Sweat and Tears, Neil Young,

1129
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:57,679
Speaker 1: all album acts. And really this started with the Sergeant

1130
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 1: Pepper album Company's real seeing how much money they were

1131
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: losing by not uh by not selling albums. And so

1132
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:10,760
Speaker 1: the reason I'm telling you all this is because at

1133
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 1: that very moment uh AM Radio then turned into FM Radio.

1134
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:19,680
Speaker 1: FM Radio was started playing rock and roll for the

1135
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:24,840
Speaker 1: first time ever in um. Up until that time, FM

1136
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 1: was only for jazz and classical. Now they're playing rock,

1137
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 1: unheard of, So everything was in stereo. Everything had to

1138
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:36,640
Speaker 1: sound good. At the same moments, technology was coming in

1139
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 1: from the Space program. We had multi tracks that were

1140
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 1: up to two tracks. Now we went from four track

1141
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 1: to track in about eighteen months. So everything was changing,

1142
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:51,920
Speaker 1: and so we realized we had to produce ourselves. We

1143
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 1: had to write and produce ourselves or we were done

1144
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:58,400
Speaker 1: and we had to sell albums. So it was just

1145
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:01,519
Speaker 1: very lucky for us. We were working on a little

1146
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:07,040
Speaker 1: record called Crimson and Clover, and Crimson and Clover was

1147
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:09,679
Speaker 1: just us two of my favorite words. I put together,

1148
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:13,439
Speaker 1: wrote it with a sort of a backwards three chord

1149
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 1: progression and um. We went in the studio and it

1150
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,600
Speaker 1: came out great. In five and a half hours. We

1151
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 1: put the whole record together UM and with the tremolo effects.

1152
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 1: Everything yes, we had recorded I had that was me

1153
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 1: playing guitar. We played, I played the tremorlo guitar and

1154
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 1: just kind of serendipitous, I did at the end, why

1155
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:43,040
Speaker 1: don't we put the voices through tremolo, And so that's

1156
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 1: how we did the face with the same tremolo that

1157
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:51,240
Speaker 1: was on the guitar. We plugged the um UM the

1158
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:56,920
Speaker 1: microphones into the guitar amp, Mike the guitar amp and

1159
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:00,560
Speaker 1: ran it back into the board and so it was

1160
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,280
Speaker 1: a really simple thing to do, but it made the record,

1161
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:07,639
Speaker 1: and Crimson and Clover then became the biggest record, uh

1162
01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:10,120
Speaker 1: that we ever did. It sold five and a half

1163
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 1: million copies right there in nine But what I'm saying

1164
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:19,280
Speaker 1: is that Crimson and Clover allowed us to make that

1165
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:23,480
Speaker 1: jump from a M Top forty singles to FM progressive

1166
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:26,519
Speaker 1: album rock. I don't think there's any record we ever

1167
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 1: put out that would have allowed us to do that

1168
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:33,240
Speaker 1: in one shot like that. And so then the album

1169
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:37,200
Speaker 1: came out and we were let's started really selling albums

1170
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:40,639
Speaker 1: for the first time. The Crimson and Clover album went

1171
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:45,719
Speaker 1: platinum and uh uh you know, we were suddenly selling

1172
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:52,720
Speaker 1: albums and singles and UM, that was a huge, big deal. UM.

1173
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,880
Speaker 1: It gave us the second half of our career and

1174
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 1: allowed me to do things I could never ever have

1175
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 1: done before UM in the studio. So we we became

1176
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 1: our own producers, our own songwriters. UM and UM life

1177
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 1: really changed at that moment, of course, and dragging the

1178
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 1: line how does that come together? Well, that was much later,

1179
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:28,519
Speaker 1: of course, and I had the Shan Dels and I

1180
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:35,280
Speaker 1: had parted ways in UM at least that group of them,

1181
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:40,120
Speaker 1: and so I started a solo career and I brought

1182
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:43,599
Speaker 1: my old one of my old writing partners up from

1183
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 1: South Bend, Indiana. His name was Bob King. I brought

1184
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:51,680
Speaker 1: him up and we began producing and writing together, and

1185
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:57,719
Speaker 1: I started producing artists Silver at Columbia for Clive Davis,

1186
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:03,720
Speaker 1: I did Patty Austin, I did Bennie Mardonis, uh you know,

1187
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:10,839
Speaker 1: several other acts, and uh, you know, just started expanding

1188
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:14,760
Speaker 1: everything I was doing. And I wrote this little song

1189
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:20,360
Speaker 1: for uh for as a B side called Dragon A Line,

1190
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:23,599
Speaker 1: and I put it out first as a B side.

1191
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 1: On the A side was a song called Church Street

1192
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:29,759
Speaker 1: Soul Revival, And the first time this had ever happened

1193
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 1: to me where I put it out as a single,

1194
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:38,840
Speaker 1: and the B side started getting as much or more

1195
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:41,360
Speaker 1: play as the A side that had never happened to

1196
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 1: me before. And so I took a second look at this,

1197
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 1: and I took Dragon A Line back into the studio

1198
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:50,000
Speaker 1: and I put horns on it, a couple of beet

1199
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:55,439
Speaker 1: beat boop boops, and remixed it and put it out

1200
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:58,800
Speaker 1: as a single in seventy one. The spring of seventy one,

1201
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 1: I just took off and broke out of l a

1202
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:07,360
Speaker 1: believe it or not, and so any at any rate,

1203
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:10,120
Speaker 1: that was a that was a huge big deal to

1204
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:14,680
Speaker 1: have a top five record as a solo artist right then.

1205
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:19,519
Speaker 1: And I had another twelve chart singles on Roulette as

1206
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:22,679
Speaker 1: a solo artist, I'm Coming Home and Ball and Chain

1207
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 1: and the others. And then you know what happened, how

1208
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:31,479
Speaker 1: I ended up leaving with it. Okay, at some point

1209
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:34,479
Speaker 1: the hits dry up. How do you cope with that?

1210
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 1: What goes through your mind? Well, look, this business we're in,

1211
01:23:41,640 --> 01:23:46,680
Speaker 1: it's generational, and you've got to be prepared for the

1212
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:53,680
Speaker 1: long haul. And you go through phases, and you know,

1213
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:57,599
Speaker 1: it's like being a child actor. You know, you as

1214
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:01,640
Speaker 1: you as you get older, Uh, the parts change and

1215
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 1: the windows aren't as frequent, but there are still lots

1216
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 1: of windows of opportunity and so um. After nineteen I

1217
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:13,560
Speaker 1: did two albums for Fantasy Records in the seventies and

1218
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:17,000
Speaker 1: they were both on the charts. They they weren't top

1219
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 1: ten albums, but they sold a lot of records. And uh,

1220
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:24,080
Speaker 1: then I had another I came back to New York

1221
01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 1: in eight and signed with Millennium Records, which was Jimmy

1222
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 1: Einer's label, and that was distributed by r C A.

1223
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:35,360
Speaker 1: And I had a number one Adult contemporary record with

1224
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 1: three Times in Love and it went top ten on

1225
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:42,600
Speaker 1: the charts, and uh, then two more chart records on

1226
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:47,840
Speaker 1: Millennium after that, and then finally UM, I left Millennium

1227
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:54,519
Speaker 1: and UH, basically things were pretty slow in the eighties.

1228
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:59,120
Speaker 1: I got my a lot of my music back. Finally

1229
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:03,559
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety I signed with Ronald Lexenburg at Aegis

1230
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 1: Records and we had an album called High Five and

1231
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:10,280
Speaker 1: did okay, didn't blow the Doorstown, but it was okay.

1232
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 1: So but all this time we're selling records. UH. Meanwhile,

1233
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 1: Roulette Morris gets uh Morris and I kind of stayed

1234
01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:26,320
Speaker 1: in touch. Morris gets arrested and gets convicted, uh for

1235
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:29,800
Speaker 1: racketeering and gets sentenced to ten years in prison. This

1236
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:35,040
Speaker 1: happened in eighty six and eighty seven, and he dies

1237
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:38,120
Speaker 1: of cancer before he can serve a day in prison.

1238
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:47,280
Speaker 1: And just before he died, he sold the company two Rhino,

1239
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 1: who is this is very contortive, but he sells it

1240
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:56,760
Speaker 1: to Rhino, UH, and the masters and sells the publishing.

1241
01:25:57,200 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 1: Two Fujifilm start a publishing company called Windswept Pacific. Windswept

1242
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:07,720
Speaker 1: Pacific themselves to E M I E M I, then

1243
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:13,720
Speaker 1: selves to Sony. Today I'm with Sony on on the

1244
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:16,479
Speaker 1: publish all the publishing. And they've brought me sixty three

1245
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:21,560
Speaker 1: movies uh in the past uh ten years or so,

1246
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:27,559
Speaker 1: sixty three of them. And um over on the masters

1247
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 1: are now owned by Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers brought Rhino,

1248
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:34,840
Speaker 1: bought Rhino, and Warner Brothers now who by the way

1249
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 1: is owned by the Russians, the Ukrainians. Um, there are

1250
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,280
Speaker 1: no more American owned record companies of the of the

1251
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:48,760
Speaker 1: big corporate labels. You know, Sony is owned by the Japanese, UH,

1252
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 1: Universal is Vivendi by the with the French, and UH

1253
01:26:54,760 --> 01:27:00,960
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers is the Ukrainians. So anyway, that's that's amazing.

1254
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 1: But anyway, so uh Warner Brothers has uh put out

1255
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 1: product licensed product my stuff all over the world. And

1256
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 1: so today you know it's a licensing business and a

1257
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 1: publishing business, and uh, frankly, I mean I'm kind of

1258
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:28,840
Speaker 1: embarrassed to say to this, I've never done better. Uh,

1259
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:33,800
Speaker 1: financially than then now any time in my career, not

1260
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 1: to mention the booking price. You said you got the

1261
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:40,800
Speaker 1: rights back. What rights did you get back? I own

1262
01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:44,479
Speaker 1: all of my masters after Roulette, in other words, the

1263
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 1: five labels I was with, including my own. Now I

1264
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:53,240
Speaker 1: have my own label, our records, and I own all

1265
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:58,439
Speaker 1: of my material, all of my masters h after Roulette

1266
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:03,720
Speaker 1: from seventy four on. Uh. Now, UH Warners owns the

1267
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:08,320
Speaker 1: big Roulette catalog. And they're doing a magnificent job of

1268
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 1: getting that stuff all around. And they pay. Okay, now,

1269
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 1: you signed deals in the sixties. Never mind, you didn't

1270
01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:20,320
Speaker 1: get paid in the sixties. Do they still pay you

1271
01:28:20,439 --> 01:28:22,719
Speaker 1: at the same rate in the you signed the contract

1272
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:26,559
Speaker 1: you signed in the sixties a much better rate. How

1273
01:28:26,600 --> 01:28:30,800
Speaker 1: did you come to how did you get to renegotiate that? Well,

1274
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 1: there were certain statutory laws that they had to um

1275
01:28:37,560 --> 01:28:44,719
Speaker 1: over the years. UM. I renegotiated with Rhino um because

1276
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,600
Speaker 1: otherwise I could have I was. I didn't threaten to

1277
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:51,880
Speaker 1: sue him or anything. I just said that, Uh, you know,

1278
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:54,760
Speaker 1: I never got paid, and I didn't excuse me. I

1279
01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:57,400
Speaker 1: guess I put a bug in their ear. But they

1280
01:28:57,439 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 1: were very eager to pay me the much higher rate.

1281
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:04,240
Speaker 1: And of course with movies and licens things, a lot

1282
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:10,080
Speaker 1: of the movies are very uh well paying, as is

1283
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:15,760
Speaker 1: SYNC licensing for other things television, uh licensing, and that's

1284
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:19,439
Speaker 1: a fifty royalty. Let's go back to your production era.

1285
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 1: Were you the King? You talked about technology going from

1286
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:25,720
Speaker 1: four track to track? Were you pretty savvy in the

1287
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:29,040
Speaker 1: studio and how did you get the work with Clive

1288
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:31,920
Speaker 1: and other people as a producer. Well, I was very

1289
01:29:32,040 --> 01:29:38,080
Speaker 1: lucky because I learned production. Excuse me, I learned production

1290
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:43,360
Speaker 1: with Bow and Ritchie. I went through all the phases

1291
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:49,479
Speaker 1: of production, producing records, writing songs, producing records, making records,

1292
01:29:50,160 --> 01:29:54,240
Speaker 1: um at roulette, even album design and stuff like that.

1293
01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:58,719
Speaker 1: Um I was I learned my craft from top to bottom.

1294
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:01,960
Speaker 1: And so yes, I was well versed in the studio.

1295
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:08,960
Speaker 1: And when I produced other artists, that really is a

1296
01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 1: rather thankless job producing other people. It's kind of uh,

1297
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:17,519
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's a hard it's a hard

1298
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:21,559
Speaker 1: thing to do and be successful at we we did. Okay.

1299
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:24,679
Speaker 1: The first record I ever produced for somebody else was Tighter,

1300
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:30,080
Speaker 1: Tighter by Live and kicking. Um I guess you remember

1301
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:34,800
Speaker 1: Tighter Tighter. I took it back to Roulette, and I

1302
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:38,280
Speaker 1: originally was going to do it for myself, and uh,

1303
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 1: I didn't like the way the vocal was coming out,

1304
01:30:40,640 --> 01:30:43,200
Speaker 1: so I brought a live and kicking in rewrote the

1305
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:46,120
Speaker 1: song as kind of a duet, did it with them.

1306
01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:48,920
Speaker 1: They sang on the track that we had already done,

1307
01:30:49,200 --> 01:30:51,679
Speaker 1: and then I added their guitar player and keyboard player

1308
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:54,880
Speaker 1: and so forth, um and had a We had a

1309
01:30:54,960 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 1: top five record with Tighter Tighter on Roulette. Uh. I

1310
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:04,040
Speaker 1: kind of got my production shops together through Tighter Tighter,

1311
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:07,080
Speaker 1: and then I began producing other artists at Columbia and

1312
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:12,000
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But I kind of grew tired of

1313
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 1: that pretty quickly. It's a lot of work, especially if

1314
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:18,519
Speaker 1: you're producing more than one person at a time, and

1315
01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:24,559
Speaker 1: I kind of tired of that. To be honest with you, Okay, now,

1316
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 1: during this behight of your fame, you are partaking of

1317
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:34,880
Speaker 1: substances to the point one one dig you collapse in

1318
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:38,240
Speaker 1: or people. The rumor goes around that you're dead. So

1319
01:31:38,920 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 1: tell us about your descent and your recovery there. Okay, Well,

1320
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:54,920
Speaker 1: I started popping pills, I started taking uppers. Uh started

1321
01:31:54,960 --> 01:32:01,160
Speaker 1: early on about and it all caught up with me. Um,

1322
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:05,880
Speaker 1: what was your motivation for taking the uppers? I had

1323
01:32:05,920 --> 01:32:07,760
Speaker 1: to write, I had to make records, I had to

1324
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:09,960
Speaker 1: be up a lot. But I also they also, I

1325
01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:14,439
Speaker 1: was you know, uh they I liked them. I wish

1326
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:17,439
Speaker 1: there was a better excuse than that. I mean, yes,

1327
01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:20,160
Speaker 1: I used them when I worked, but I also liked

1328
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:23,400
Speaker 1: the like the way I felt and uh, you know,

1329
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 1: doing the sixties. Uh, and and you had the feeling

1330
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:29,800
Speaker 1: it was all right because everybody else was doing them too.

1331
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:36,519
Speaker 1: So anyway, as I moved on, then I I started saying, well,

1332
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:39,439
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do pills anymore. I'm gonna I'm going

1333
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:44,439
Speaker 1: to rehab. So then I started drinking, and then so

1334
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:47,719
Speaker 1: booze became my drug of choice for a long time.

1335
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:53,880
Speaker 1: And then finally uh uh you know, I was very

1336
01:32:54,160 --> 01:32:58,559
Speaker 1: very lucky because I never really got caught. There were

1337
01:32:58,600 --> 01:33:01,360
Speaker 1: a couple of times, like the time you mentioned when

1338
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:04,479
Speaker 1: I collapsed on stage. I go back to Roulette and

1339
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:09,800
Speaker 1: they said what the hell happened? And I had to

1340
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:13,880
Speaker 1: explain what I was doing. But anyway, the bottom line

1341
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:18,360
Speaker 1: was that h I finally came to my senses in

1342
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:24,680
Speaker 1: n and I went to the Betty Ford Center, and uh,

1343
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:27,400
Speaker 1: it was the best thing I've ever done, one of

1344
01:33:27,439 --> 01:33:31,040
Speaker 1: the best things I've ever done. Certainly it saved my life. Okay,

1345
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:34,840
Speaker 1: a little a little bit slower, Okay, get pushed? Did

1346
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:37,720
Speaker 1: you get pushed or did you jump? How did you

1347
01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:40,960
Speaker 1: actually go into the Betty Ford Center? And what is

1348
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:44,799
Speaker 1: it like being a rock star taking pills and drinking

1349
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:48,679
Speaker 1: for decades and then going to rehab. It doesn't stick

1350
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:51,840
Speaker 1: with most people. So what was your experience and why

1351
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 1: did it stick? But first, how did you actually go? Well,

1352
01:33:56,439 --> 01:34:02,920
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, baby, U uh um, Well, frankly, I

1353
01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:06,760
Speaker 1: couldn't stomach myself anymore. I couldn't stand waking up with

1354
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:09,640
Speaker 1: the hangovers. I couldn't, you know, because and I was

1355
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:14,200
Speaker 1: just barely getting by on my on my road shows,

1356
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:20,920
Speaker 1: because I was putting more and more away and uh

1357
01:34:21,240 --> 01:34:30,040
Speaker 1: just barely uh not getting caught. And so I must

1358
01:34:30,080 --> 01:34:33,439
Speaker 1: tell you, oh, well, I don't want to jump ahead.

1359
01:34:33,720 --> 01:34:40,160
Speaker 1: So I basically couldn't stand myself anymore. And yes, my

1360
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:43,200
Speaker 1: dear wife was pushing me to do it too. Um

1361
01:34:43,720 --> 01:34:46,040
Speaker 1: God bless her, she stuck with me all those years.

1362
01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:49,840
Speaker 1: And so finally I we got on a plane and

1363
01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:53,599
Speaker 1: went to the Betty Ford Center. And uh, the Betty

1364
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:56,400
Speaker 1: Ford Center is laid out like a campus. It's a

1365
01:34:56,560 --> 01:35:00,519
Speaker 1: it's a wonderful place, Uh to get so ober and

1366
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:07,040
Speaker 1: too uh uh really reflect on what you're doing to

1367
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:12,479
Speaker 1: your life and to get to get better. And I

1368
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:15,920
Speaker 1: was there for six weeks. At that time, I was

1369
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:21,120
Speaker 1: cross addicted to valium and booge and that's a dangerous combination.

1370
01:35:22,280 --> 01:35:27,880
Speaker 1: And Uh, all I can say is that I've been

1371
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:30,759
Speaker 1: very fortunate. I never relapsed after I left the center.

1372
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:35,240
Speaker 1: I I wanted. The truth is I wanted to stop.

1373
01:35:36,080 --> 01:35:38,320
Speaker 1: If you really don't want, if you're badgered to go

1374
01:35:38,479 --> 01:35:42,840
Speaker 1: into rehab, it's not gonna work. Uh. You know they

1375
01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:45,240
Speaker 1: say a man convinced against his will is of the

1376
01:35:45,320 --> 01:35:48,519
Speaker 1: same opinion still, and it's the truth. You can't if

1377
01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:51,360
Speaker 1: you're badgered to go by somebody, it's not gonna work.

1378
01:35:51,840 --> 01:35:54,760
Speaker 1: You have to be sick of yourself. You have to

1379
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:57,679
Speaker 1: want to go and want to quit. And I did.

1380
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:03,160
Speaker 1: And that's really the story. And I and I a

1381
01:36:03,200 --> 01:36:06,639
Speaker 1: couple of things going back. Hey, what did you learn

1382
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:10,679
Speaker 1: and rehab and be you had somewhat of a religious

1383
01:36:10,720 --> 01:36:15,559
Speaker 1: conversion there well, yes, that had actually happened several years

1384
01:36:15,640 --> 01:36:19,280
Speaker 1: before that, but my faith played a big role in

1385
01:36:19,439 --> 01:36:27,280
Speaker 1: my recovery. Um, I'll tell a very personal story if

1386
01:36:27,320 --> 01:36:31,240
Speaker 1: you'd like me to. I. UM, while I was in

1387
01:36:32,360 --> 01:36:36,960
Speaker 1: the Fourth Center, I uh had a Bible, had my

1388
01:36:37,080 --> 01:36:45,160
Speaker 1: Bible with and I years before had done this and

1389
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 1: and uh open just opened my Bible up, thrown it

1390
01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:52,800
Speaker 1: down on the bed and saying, wherever it opens up to,

1391
01:36:54,479 --> 01:36:56,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna know God's talking to me. I'm gonna read

1392
01:36:56,880 --> 01:37:01,639
Speaker 1: that page and I'm I'm gonna know I's talking to me. Well,

1393
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:04,840
Speaker 1: I did it at the Betty Ford Center and I

1394
01:37:06,320 --> 01:37:08,560
Speaker 1: one afternoon, I just threw my Bible down on the

1395
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:12,439
Speaker 1: bed and I and it opened up to some thirty

1396
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:18,880
Speaker 1: two and it was a conversation between David and God.

1397
01:37:20,280 --> 01:37:28,160
Speaker 1: First David's talking and then God's talking. And basically I'm paraphrasing,

1398
01:37:28,920 --> 01:37:33,240
Speaker 1: but God told David, don't don't make me treat you

1399
01:37:33,479 --> 01:37:36,839
Speaker 1: like a wild donkey where I have to put reins

1400
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:38,640
Speaker 1: on you and pull you this way and pull you

1401
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 1: that way. I'm paraphrasing, but do the right thing, do

1402
01:37:44,880 --> 01:37:48,719
Speaker 1: what you know I want you to do, and don't

1403
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:52,160
Speaker 1: make me treat you like a wild animal. Well, I

1404
01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:55,320
Speaker 1: believe in my heart to this day that God was

1405
01:37:55,400 --> 01:37:59,040
Speaker 1: telling what's talking to me through that, and I knew

1406
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:04,360
Speaker 1: he meant it and that he was looking out for

1407
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:07,760
Speaker 1: me because I had always felt God was looking out here.

1408
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:10,120
Speaker 1: I've had so many little miracles, some of them I

1409
01:38:10,240 --> 01:38:13,280
Speaker 1: told you about happened in my lifetime that there was

1410
01:38:13,360 --> 01:38:19,120
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. And so that's what I did.

1411
01:38:20,360 --> 01:38:24,200
Speaker 1: And when I left the Betty Ford Center, I I

1412
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:26,439
Speaker 1: just knew in my heart that that was going to

1413
01:38:26,520 --> 01:38:31,240
Speaker 1: be it, and it was. I've never relapsed and ah,

1414
01:38:32,439 --> 01:38:36,640
Speaker 1: thank God, everything in my life changed after that for

1415
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:41,760
Speaker 1: the better. True story. Okay, you were on the road

1416
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:45,559
Speaker 1: with Hubert Humphrey. You knew him a little about lew

1417
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:49,800
Speaker 1: him a little bit. What was that experience like and

1418
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:53,040
Speaker 1: also compare the state of the country and your view

1419
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:58,640
Speaker 1: of it from then to now. Yeah, a lot of similarities.

1420
01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:03,040
Speaker 1: Um Well, basically I told you that Hubert Humphreys office

1421
01:39:03,160 --> 01:39:07,840
Speaker 1: called Roulette and we went out and I'll never forget.

1422
01:39:09,880 --> 01:39:15,880
Speaker 1: We were watching uh Richie and I Mike Vale and

1423
01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:19,160
Speaker 1: I from the from the group. We were watching the

1424
01:39:19,479 --> 01:39:23,880
Speaker 1: Democratic Convention in Chicago where all the kids got beat up,

1425
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:27,960
Speaker 1: and the reporters got beat up and everything. It was real,

1426
01:39:29,680 --> 01:39:34,439
Speaker 1: real UH riot and everything, real chaos. And we're watching

1427
01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:38,680
Speaker 1: this and we had just agreed the week before that

1428
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:42,080
Speaker 1: we would meet Hubert Humphrey UH and the and the

1429
01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:47,880
Speaker 1: campaign in UH. I believe it's rolling out Virginia, UH,

1430
01:39:48,240 --> 01:39:52,639
Speaker 1: the following Wednesday after the convention. And so we're writing

1431
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:58,479
Speaker 1: and and this UH convention comes on and we, my god,

1432
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:02,880
Speaker 1: what have we got our selves into? Is every campaign

1433
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:05,400
Speaker 1: stopped gonna be like this? What in the hell are

1434
01:40:05,439 --> 01:40:08,439
Speaker 1: we gonna do? Should we back out? What? So we

1435
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:12,000
Speaker 1: decided to go ahead and we met him the following Wednesday,

1436
01:40:12,160 --> 01:40:17,040
Speaker 1: and they gave us our own private jet UH to

1437
01:40:17,520 --> 01:40:22,439
Speaker 1: go back and forth whenever we could make it. And UH,

1438
01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:26,799
Speaker 1: he couldn't have been nicer and we so we opened.

1439
01:40:27,400 --> 01:40:29,360
Speaker 1: We opened for him, you know, like a like a

1440
01:40:29,479 --> 01:40:33,000
Speaker 1: rock act. And it's the first time that I'm aware

1441
01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:37,080
Speaker 1: of that a rock act and a and a politician

1442
01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:40,000
Speaker 1: linked up to do a campaign. We ended up. He

1443
01:40:40,120 --> 01:40:42,320
Speaker 1: asked me if I would do the whole campaign. We

1444
01:40:42,439 --> 01:40:46,320
Speaker 1: did it. We did the whole damn campaign. And what

1445
01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:51,720
Speaker 1: a what a learning experience that was? Um? Uh? He

1446
01:40:51,880 --> 01:40:54,080
Speaker 1: told me how he was gonna He told all of

1447
01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:56,120
Speaker 1: us how he was going to end the Vietnam War.

1448
01:40:57,479 --> 01:41:00,160
Speaker 1: He was going to have a national referendum. I mean,

1449
01:41:00,240 --> 01:41:03,720
Speaker 1: I remember thinking to myself how lucky we were to

1450
01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:05,680
Speaker 1: hear this. I mean that the press would have gone

1451
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:09,720
Speaker 1: nuts to hear this a national referendum. He says, it

1452
01:41:09,720 --> 01:41:12,160
Speaker 1: will show the world what a democracy really is, and

1453
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:16,720
Speaker 1: it will save twenty kids. And he was right, that's

1454
01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:22,200
Speaker 1: almost exactly the number. And uh he ended up writing

1455
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:27,160
Speaker 1: the liner notes to my Crimson and Clover album. If

1456
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:30,240
Speaker 1: you turn the album over, Hubert Humphrey wrote the liner notes,

1457
01:41:32,360 --> 01:41:37,960
Speaker 1: and um, it was just an amazing time. He asked me, uh,

1458
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:43,599
Speaker 1: if I would be President's advisor on youth affairs if

1459
01:41:43,680 --> 01:41:49,400
Speaker 1: he won, and I said something to him like some

1460
01:41:49,640 --> 01:41:52,280
Speaker 1: stupid and like you know, like believe me, the youth

1461
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:54,760
Speaker 1: are having affairs and I'm just a guy to look into.

1462
01:41:54,920 --> 01:42:00,920
Speaker 1: I thought that was uh. But the bottom line was that, uh, my,

1463
01:42:01,200 --> 01:42:03,559
Speaker 1: my career could have gone in a very different direction

1464
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:08,120
Speaker 1: if he had won. But of course, uh he did.

1465
01:42:08,320 --> 01:42:11,679
Speaker 1: He did lose, and but a lot of people thought,

1466
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:16,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember that night, uh, in

1467
01:42:18,200 --> 01:42:22,600
Speaker 1: of the presidential election, but uh, the voting machines in

1468
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:30,080
Speaker 1: uh Cook County in Chicago, suddenly we're an operative. They

1469
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:35,599
Speaker 1: broke and three hours later, oh and he was winning.

1470
01:42:36,479 --> 01:42:41,439
Speaker 1: And three hours later, um, voting machines came back on

1471
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:49,639
Speaker 1: and he lost. So um and Nixon one. And at

1472
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:53,320
Speaker 1: breakfast that day, everybody wanted him to do a recount

1473
01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:59,280
Speaker 1: because everybody felt that Daily had mayor Daily had uh

1474
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, fixed the election because he was so he

1475
01:43:02,960 --> 01:43:06,000
Speaker 1: was so upset with the Democrats for the fool they

1476
01:43:06,080 --> 01:43:08,040
Speaker 1: made of him at the convention. Do you did you

1477
01:43:08,120 --> 01:43:11,840
Speaker 1: watch any of that? Oh? Yeah, I know, yeah, absolutely

1478
01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:14,840
Speaker 1: so at any rate, Uh, they wanted him to do

1479
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:17,880
Speaker 1: a recount. He and he says, oh, he says, the

1480
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:19,920
Speaker 1: nation has been through enough. We don't need to do

1481
01:43:20,040 --> 01:43:24,479
Speaker 1: any of that. He says, this guy, this guy, Dick Nixon,

1482
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:29,440
Speaker 1: has a habit of getting himself in trouble. So hiss

1483
01:43:29,479 --> 01:43:35,479
Speaker 1: our support. That's what he said at breakfast. And so anyway,

1484
01:43:35,520 --> 01:43:40,880
Speaker 1: it was a major experience and right in the middle

1485
01:43:40,920 --> 01:43:45,000
Speaker 1: of my generation, I guess, and how did you get

1486
01:43:45,040 --> 01:43:53,120
Speaker 1: out of the draft? Well? I always feel really squeamish

1487
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:59,599
Speaker 1: about saying this, but it was probably Morris Levy, Morris Levy,

1488
01:43:59,680 --> 01:44:03,120
Speaker 1: this is a true story. Happened to be on the

1489
01:44:03,200 --> 01:44:06,040
Speaker 1: board of directors of the Chemical Bank in New York.

1490
01:44:07,160 --> 01:44:12,120
Speaker 1: Talk about the cat garden, the chicken house, you know. Um,

1491
01:44:13,120 --> 01:44:17,439
Speaker 1: And one of his best friends on on the board

1492
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:19,680
Speaker 1: was the head of the Selective Service in New York

1493
01:44:20,560 --> 01:44:25,559
Speaker 1: was also on the board, and I I'm almost certain

1494
01:44:25,720 --> 01:44:30,920
Speaker 1: that he used his influence for that. I I don't

1495
01:44:30,960 --> 01:44:32,960
Speaker 1: know if I'd have been accepted anyway, because I was

1496
01:44:33,080 --> 01:44:36,120
Speaker 1: really it was the height of my pill usage. We

1497
01:44:36,240 --> 01:44:38,840
Speaker 1: had just done the Ed Sullivan Show that Sunday night,

1498
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:47,280
Speaker 1: and this is February, early February, and I went down

1499
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:51,120
Speaker 1: to the Whitehall Street in New York, which was the

1500
01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:57,040
Speaker 1: UH induction center and took my physical and I had

1501
01:44:57,600 --> 01:45:01,160
Speaker 1: been up for two days in the studio and Uh,

1502
01:45:03,040 --> 01:45:05,879
Speaker 1: it turns out I was color blind to night time colors.

1503
01:45:05,960 --> 01:45:09,479
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. So you have a new album

1504
01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:13,960
Speaker 1: rock Party out this year. What does it contain and

1505
01:45:14,120 --> 01:45:20,040
Speaker 1: how did you decide to put out a record? Now? Well, um,

1506
01:45:21,800 --> 01:45:23,640
Speaker 1: if you if you don't mind me telling you one

1507
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:28,479
Speaker 1: more thing. UH. Two years ago in we put out

1508
01:45:28,600 --> 01:45:31,880
Speaker 1: the Alive album. It was my first studio album in

1509
01:45:32,040 --> 01:45:37,640
Speaker 1: probably ten years. And we went Top twenty with the

1510
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:42,840
Speaker 1: album Adult Contemporary, and we went top twenty with both

1511
01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:47,680
Speaker 1: of the singles from the album in Billboard. Um. Uh,

1512
01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:49,599
Speaker 1: so it was great to be back on the charts

1513
01:45:49,640 --> 01:45:54,519
Speaker 1: and that that was really a big big deal for me. Um. Secondly,

1514
01:45:54,600 --> 01:45:57,200
Speaker 1: we're putting out this new album called, as you say,

1515
01:45:57,320 --> 01:46:03,040
Speaker 1: Rock Party. Uh. This was an album that we uh license.

1516
01:46:03,120 --> 01:46:06,920
Speaker 1: I actually put this album together twenty years ago. Uh,

1517
01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:12,479
Speaker 1: and we licensed it to a Canadian label called Direct Source,

1518
01:46:13,479 --> 01:46:18,640
Speaker 1: and um, they had it out and the license is up,

1519
01:46:19,320 --> 01:46:22,439
Speaker 1: and we got the album back and they sent us

1520
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:25,959
Speaker 1: the copies of the album that they had put together. Basically,

1521
01:46:26,040 --> 01:46:33,759
Speaker 1: it's a it's a compilation of my favorite rock songs

1522
01:46:34,360 --> 01:46:38,439
Speaker 1: that I have produced over the years. Um. Uh. And

1523
01:46:38,720 --> 01:46:40,800
Speaker 1: and so we suped it up a little bit with

1524
01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:45,960
Speaker 1: extra crowd noises stuff and uh it really it really

1525
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:49,799
Speaker 1: sounds most of the many of the cuts are live anyway,

1526
01:46:50,479 --> 01:46:53,760
Speaker 1: and so it's a it's it's a rock album and

1527
01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:57,439
Speaker 1: it's uh things we have recorded at various spots around

1528
01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:05,840
Speaker 1: the country back then. Um. What happened with this album

1529
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:08,840
Speaker 1: was we got it back and decided since we've never

1530
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:11,760
Speaker 1: released it in the United States, had only been had

1531
01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:16,599
Speaker 1: only been released in um uh in Canada. We decided

1532
01:47:16,640 --> 01:47:19,479
Speaker 1: to release it first of all digitally in the United States,

1533
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:25,080
Speaker 1: which we did on Spotify and and uh iTunes and

1534
01:47:25,720 --> 01:47:30,280
Speaker 1: all of the those digital platforms, and then secondly we

1535
01:47:30,400 --> 01:47:34,960
Speaker 1: released it physical product of c d s November five

1536
01:47:36,400 --> 01:47:41,120
Speaker 1: all over the country, ah through our distributor. And now

1537
01:47:41,200 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 1: we're going to be releasing it all over the world.

1538
01:47:44,800 --> 01:47:48,040
Speaker 1: So Rock Party is going to get around and uh,

1539
01:47:49,120 --> 01:47:52,400
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope people dig it. It's uh uh

1540
01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:55,519
Speaker 1: never been released here before. So that's the story of

1541
01:47:55,640 --> 01:48:00,639
Speaker 1: Rock Party. Okay. Now these are on your own label, yes,

1542
01:48:00,760 --> 01:48:03,280
Speaker 1: and how do you actually promote them and market them

1543
01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:08,040
Speaker 1: in today's world of cacophony, Well, Ira we go. We

1544
01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:11,200
Speaker 1: we're going to retail with it everywhere, and retail has

1545
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:15,320
Speaker 1: taken it everywhere from Walmart to cost Go to uh

1546
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:21,200
Speaker 1: target uh uh. Ira is our marketing director for our

1547
01:48:21,400 --> 01:48:27,760
Speaker 1: records and and our distributor is m v D and

1548
01:48:28,439 --> 01:48:35,880
Speaker 1: the physical the Orchard does uh digital Yeah, and uh

1549
01:48:36,200 --> 01:48:40,080
Speaker 1: so uh we get it. We're getting around and radio

1550
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:42,679
Speaker 1: all over the country is playing cuts from it, tracks

1551
01:48:42,760 --> 01:48:46,160
Speaker 1: from it, and Carol does a wonderful job with radio.

1552
01:48:46,479 --> 01:48:48,360
Speaker 1: She does radio all over the world. As a matter

1553
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:54,519
Speaker 1: of fact. Okay, you've had quite a career, and unlike

1554
01:48:54,560 --> 01:48:57,320
Speaker 1: many people, you're still very active, not only in the

1555
01:48:57,439 --> 01:49:02,840
Speaker 1: road but in other endeavors. Recording. It's anything left to do,

1556
01:49:03,160 --> 01:49:05,280
Speaker 1: anything you know, reach you know, they use that term

1557
01:49:05,320 --> 01:49:08,760
Speaker 1: bucket list, anything you want to achieve before you leave

1558
01:49:08,840 --> 01:49:12,559
Speaker 1: this mortal coil. Well, we're doing a movie right now.

1559
01:49:13,640 --> 01:49:15,720
Speaker 1: The book Me, the Mob and the Music is being

1560
01:49:15,800 --> 01:49:19,919
Speaker 1: turned into a film. It's being produced by Barbara Dafina,

1561
01:49:20,240 --> 01:49:24,800
Speaker 1: who produced Good Fellas and Casino and Hugo a few

1562
01:49:24,920 --> 01:49:27,760
Speaker 1: years ago with Martin Scorsese and going all the way

1563
01:49:27,800 --> 01:49:31,080
Speaker 1: back to the Color of Money with Paul Newman back

1564
01:49:31,160 --> 01:49:33,920
Speaker 1: in the in the age, just a great string of hits.

1565
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:41,799
Speaker 1: And she's producing our film, and uh, Kathleen Marshall is directing.

1566
01:49:42,120 --> 01:49:45,479
Speaker 1: Who made her bones on Broadway, and they want to

1567
01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:49,400
Speaker 1: do a Broadway show after the film. And so the

1568
01:49:49,520 --> 01:49:51,960
Speaker 1: next couple of years are going to be real interesting.

1569
01:49:52,680 --> 01:49:56,120
Speaker 1: And uh, Hollywood shut down, as you know, for about

1570
01:49:56,120 --> 01:49:59,559
Speaker 1: a year and a half. So they're now just getting

1571
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:03,639
Speaker 1: up in a running again. And uh so I love

1572
01:50:03,720 --> 01:50:07,519
Speaker 1: watching all this come together. I'm getting another education they're

1573
01:50:07,520 --> 01:50:10,840
Speaker 1: putting the technical crew together right now, and uh they'll

1574
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:14,160
Speaker 1: be casting. They have their money. Uh, they're gonna be

1575
01:50:14,320 --> 01:50:18,800
Speaker 1: casting soon. And I'm gonna be helping produce the movie

1576
01:50:18,840 --> 01:50:21,160
Speaker 1: and I'm going to be technical advisor and the music.

1577
01:50:21,920 --> 01:50:25,240
Speaker 1: And what's amazing to me, by the way, is how

1578
01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:29,720
Speaker 1: many of the young actors, uh, the the young male

1579
01:50:29,800 --> 01:50:34,920
Speaker 1: actors started out in rock bands and so so many

1580
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:38,360
Speaker 1: of you know, because Jamie Fox really raised the bar

1581
01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:42,400
Speaker 1: and Ray by doing his own vocals and and uh

1582
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:46,120
Speaker 1: he even looked like Ray Charles, So he really has

1583
01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:52,479
Speaker 1: raised the bar uh for that sort of musical movie

1584
01:50:52,560 --> 01:50:57,760
Speaker 1: getting made. And so whoever they get uh in the

1585
01:50:57,880 --> 01:51:00,400
Speaker 1: lead role is going to have to play and sing

1586
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:04,639
Speaker 1: and actually re record some of these songs. And whoever

1587
01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:07,360
Speaker 1: they get from Marris Morris is really the star to

1588
01:51:07,439 --> 01:51:11,880
Speaker 1: show because uh, you know, all of us were kind

1589
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:18,280
Speaker 1: of jumping around pleasing Morris and he really, uh was

1590
01:51:18,600 --> 01:51:21,599
Speaker 1: the center of attention. So but I hope they get

1591
01:51:21,640 --> 01:51:25,720
Speaker 1: it right, and I'm gonna try to see to it,

1592
01:51:25,800 --> 01:51:28,519
Speaker 1: for example, that they on this in the in the

1593
01:51:28,640 --> 01:51:32,519
Speaker 1: studio scenes, that they actually have equipment that was used

1594
01:51:32,560 --> 01:51:35,760
Speaker 1: in the sixties. It's very important you know so many,

1595
01:51:36,240 --> 01:51:38,280
Speaker 1: so many of the people who try to recreate the

1596
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:41,880
Speaker 1: sixties don't get it right. Oh listen, you're you're you're

1597
01:51:41,960 --> 01:51:46,560
Speaker 1: preaching to the converted on that. So Tommy, you know

1598
01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:51,880
Speaker 1: you're great. You remember everything, you haven't lost a step.

1599
01:51:52,680 --> 01:51:56,800
Speaker 1: It's both impressive and interesting, and I want to thank

1600
01:51:56,880 --> 01:51:58,760
Speaker 1: you so much for taking the time. We could talk

1601
01:51:58,840 --> 01:52:02,120
Speaker 1: for hours more. We've just hit the surface, but you

1602
01:52:02,280 --> 01:52:05,120
Speaker 1: tell a great story. They're all interesting. I want to

1603
01:52:05,200 --> 01:52:07,679
Speaker 1: thank you so much. God bless you, Bob. I love

1604
01:52:08,080 --> 01:52:10,559
Speaker 1: reading your stuff. I'm very honored to do this show

1605
01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:14,080
Speaker 1: and thank you for everything. Until next time. This is

1606
01:52:14,160 --> 01:52:15,120
Speaker 1: Bob left Stocks