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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and it's just us and that's okay because we

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Speaker 2: can support one another and ourselves. We're grown men and

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Speaker 2: we feel good about things, especially us, well not especially,

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Speaker 2: but equally with us. And this is TI.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you told me, you sent me a text

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Speaker 1: very early that said put on your big boy pants today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because Jerry's not showing up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I got them out my breeches.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Are they green jeans?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I've got on green cords?

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Speaker 2: No, I do?

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Speaker 4: We do?

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Speaker 1: These are kind of my favorites. Actually, these forest green

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Speaker 1: chords great for this time of year.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember those. I remember some like brownish topey,

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Speaker 2: kind of shiny tope ones. Am I making up?

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Speaker 1: No? I have chords of many colors, much like Joseph.

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Speaker 2: Are they the thick whales or the thin whales?

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Speaker 3: The thins?

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Speaker 1: I don't get into the thick stuff anymore. That was nineties, Chuck.

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Speaker 2: Probably, Yeah, but I'll bet they're going to make a comeback.

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Speaker 3: I bet you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I think we should start talking about this because

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Speaker 2: we probably have some non regular listeners who have military backgrounds,

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Speaker 2: who are like, what the hell is this? Who want

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Speaker 2: to hear about Operation Paul Bunyan, which is the point

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Speaker 2: of all this. And I'm guessing just from the title,

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Speaker 2: there's probably a lot of people in the military who

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Speaker 2: know what we're talking about. Already. It seems to be

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Speaker 2: a fairly widespread, widely known incident that took place in

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six. We're just going to call it an

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Speaker 2: incident at the DMV DMZ that was totally unintentional, an

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Speaker 2: incident at the DMZ. That's where we're going to start

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Speaker 2: out calling it. Well, eventually, maybe refine that over time,

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Speaker 2: but we should probably talk about what the DMZ is

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Speaker 2: in the first place. Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And by the way, I'm looking real quick, because

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Speaker 1: I could have sworn this probably came from someone, but

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Speaker 1: I usually make a note and I'm not seeing that.

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Speaker 1: But I am seeing that pop Tarts came from Nelson Reynolds.

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Speaker 1: So sorry for that, Nelson.

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Speaker 2: Sorry Nelson, ah ha.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, the DMZ, I guess we should set up

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Speaker 1: just sort of the deal between North Korea and South

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Speaker 1: Korea and the United States post World War Two was

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Speaker 1: the Soviets and the Americans got together and said, all right,

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Speaker 1: Korea and Korea obviously got involved and said, we're going

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Speaker 1: to be two nations. Let's confuse everybody and call the

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Speaker 1: communists North Korea inside the Democratic People's Republic of Korea

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Speaker 1: and called the democratic South Korean side just the Republic

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Speaker 1: of Korea. And if you've ever heard of the thirty

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Speaker 1: eighth parallel, that's the famous dividing line between these two.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And North Korea and South Korea got divided after

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Speaker 2: World War Two because there was a power vacuum and

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Speaker 2: the Communists were fighting in the North and they were

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Speaker 2: fighting that US friendly South Koreans, and the North Koreans

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Speaker 2: were like, this can't sting it. We want the whole peninsula,

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Speaker 2: and they invaded and the Korean War broke out, like

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Speaker 2: you said, and it lasted for three years. I always

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Speaker 2: thought it was Americans who were fighting in Korea, but

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Speaker 2: it turns out there were plenty of American troops, mostly

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Speaker 2: American troops, but they were part of a UN command

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Speaker 2: that was actually fighting the North along with the South Koreans. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it's like ninety percent American forces. And you

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Speaker 1: said it lasted three years. I think the Korean War

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Speaker 1: is one of those that technically never ended true officially,

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Speaker 1: because I mean that's kind of one of those nitpicky

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Speaker 1: trivia questions. That's a good one that you know, there

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Speaker 1: was never an official treaty ending the war. They came

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Speaker 1: to a truce or an armistice because of a stalemate

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Speaker 1: basically after three years. But I think you know on

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Speaker 1: the books, the Korean War never technically ended.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's my understanding too. Well. Good point. So

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Speaker 2: one of the big things about this armistice agreement was

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Speaker 2: that it was like, okay, you guys, we need some

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Speaker 2: separation here, and they literally separated North Korea from South Korea.

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Speaker 2: Like you said, the dividing line runs roughly along the

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Speaker 2: thirty eighth parallel, But on either side of that border

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Speaker 2: of North and South Korea there's a buffer zone, the

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Speaker 2: demilitarized Zone the DMZ I was referring to before. I

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Speaker 2: think it's two point four miles wide total one point

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Speaker 2: two miles on either side, and that is like effectively

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Speaker 2: the de facto border between North and South. No one's

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Speaker 2: supposed to come into that no man's zone, no man's land,

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Speaker 2: the DMZ. But inside the DMZ. There's a little tiny

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Speaker 2: village called the panmu JOm and I know of that

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Speaker 2: from Billy Joel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I knew he was going to come up.

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Speaker 2: That was it. And then some of the other Korean

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Speaker 2: town names that came up, like Kaesong and all this.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, how do I know these? How are they

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Speaker 2: so unfamiliar? And then I realized watching mash with my dad,

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And it's this little tiny militarized spot inside

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Speaker 2: the demilitarized zone, and it's it's where North Korea and

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Speaker 2: South Korea actually come together physically, can come together in

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Speaker 2: this what's called the JSA, the Joint Security Area.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so if they over the years have to meet

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Speaker 1: to negotiate anything, that's where they meet. That's where the

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Speaker 1: governments go. There's a very famous bridge there separating the two,

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Speaker 1: the Bridge of No Return. It's very dramatic if you

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Speaker 1: look at pictures of it. Yeah, it's literally like, you know,

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Speaker 1: on one side is one thing, on the other side

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Speaker 1: as the other. And that's where they do prisoner exchanges

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And these days, you know, it's well,

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Speaker 1: largely because of this incident, I think it's not the

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Speaker 1: same as it was back then.

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Speaker 3: No, it's very separate.

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Speaker 1: Back then, the Joint Security Area was you know, there

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Speaker 1: were it was jointly patrolled, like you know, North Koreans

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Speaker 1: and South Korean soldiers and American soldiers were patrolling the

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Speaker 1: area at the same time that face to face contact.

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Speaker 1: They would try to intimidate one another. They would you know,

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Speaker 1: curse at one another, maybe spit at one another. The

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Speaker 1: Americans would play hopscotch on the bridge. The North Koreans

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Speaker 1: would you know, drive a truck really fast toward them

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Speaker 1: and slam on the brakes. They would sneak up and

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Speaker 1: bang on their checkpoint barracks at night and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: It was crazy to think that these kind of shenanigans

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Speaker 1: were going on without any further you know, sort of

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Speaker 1: war breaking out. They all kind of seemingly took it

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Speaker 1: in stride.

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Speaker 2: Well that's what their orders were. The UN Command troops

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Speaker 2: and the Americans in particular, had specific orders to like,

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Speaker 2: if you had to defend yourself physically because you were

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Speaker 2: getting beat up, okay, but you did not shoot. You

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Speaker 2: had to be shot at to draw your side arm,

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Speaker 2: and that was the most powerful weapon that anyone patrolling

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Speaker 2: the Joint security area had They were often outfitted with

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Speaker 2: axe handles, maybe baton's, and that was about it. So

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Speaker 2: the Americans had strict orders not to take the bait,

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Speaker 2: and North Korean troops had essentially strict orders to provoke

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Speaker 2: the Americans into attacking so that they could start a

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Speaker 2: war again and it would be the American's fault exactly.

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Speaker 1: And this came largely from the guy in charge. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, it came from on high, I'm sure, but

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Speaker 1: it was filtered down through Captain Arthur Bonifas. He was

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Speaker 1: a Vietnam vet. He was the JSA company commander. He

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Speaker 1: was thirty three years old. He was a big dude.

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Speaker 1: He was six' three, apparently super, popular like a father

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Speaker 1: figure as far as his command. Went and the camp

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Speaker 1: there at JSA's Name Camp boniface after, him so you

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Speaker 1: may see where this is. Headed but, he you, know

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Speaker 1: he believed in standing your ground but not taking the.

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Speaker 1: Bait like you, said like he wanted big guys down.

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Speaker 1: There he wanted to kind of, intimidate but the orders

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Speaker 1: were always to back off if it came to. Blows

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it would like you, know you could get

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Speaker 1: beat up or something and it would not escalate, further

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Speaker 1: which is just crazy to think.

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Speaker 2: About it is it's hard to. Imagine you said that

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Speaker 2: bonifass was into intimidating without you, know doing, it like

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Speaker 2: just being physically. Intimidating, yeah if you were assigned to PATROL.

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Speaker 2: Jsa this is a really really high stakes area still is.

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Speaker 2: Today Bill clinton toured it in the nineties and went

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Speaker 2: as far as out under The bridge Of No, return

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Speaker 2: and he said later that That Pamu jam is the

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Speaker 2: scariest place on. Earth that's a president saying that he's

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Speaker 2: probably been to some scary places and at least knows about.

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Speaker 2: Them so that really says quite a. Bit so if

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Speaker 2: you're assigned to this, area it's a big. Deal and

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Speaker 2: so you had to be over six feet, tall but

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Speaker 2: you also had to be laid back by nature and

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Speaker 2: rather cool, headed like even when, provoked like they really

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Speaker 2: tested the people who were a signed.

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Speaker 3: There, yeah they'd walk up and they'd slap you and

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Speaker 3: see what you.

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Speaker 2: Did they would apparently while they were interviewing you that

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Speaker 2: you'd have no. Idea they'd just start shouting at you

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Speaker 2: out of the out of nowhere to see how you.

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Speaker 2: Responded were they Really, Yeah, Oh. Wow, yeah there's a

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Speaker 2: really that's a great chance to shout. Out there's an

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Speaker 2: atavist article Called axes Of evil written By Josh dean

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Speaker 2: and it's it's a really great detailed look at this

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Speaker 2: whole thing that we're talking about. Today that would be.

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Speaker 1: Axe yes in this, case right, yep very clever, hmm a.

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Speaker 3: Bit of a uh what do you call?

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Speaker 1: It it's we're recording, early SO i can't think of

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Speaker 1: the word the. Foreshadowing, yeah maybe that's a play on

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Speaker 1: words a. Pun foreshadowing is probably Yet. OKAY i think

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Speaker 1: people are probably concerned BECAUSE i couldn't think of.

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Speaker 2: FORESHADOWING i couldn't think of chemistry the other day and

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Speaker 2: intro of me crazy.

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Speaker 4: Oh, Man, yeah aging is real, yeah and a, privilege

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Speaker 4: as they, Say uh so before this incident they were

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Speaker 4: about to talk about, there there was one example we

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Speaker 4: should mention When North korean troops were kind of must

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Speaker 4: in the hair of a soldier Named William henderson and he.

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Speaker 3: Did not take it.

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Speaker 1: WELL i guess he was into his hair or. Something

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Speaker 1: he got, mad took a swing and got A i

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Speaker 1: guess a throat chop or, something and got a busted.

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Speaker 1: Larynx and such That boniface wrote his wife and, said

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Speaker 1: our mission here is to take the verbal abuse to

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Speaker 1: kicking the, shoving but to not let it go any.

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Speaker 1: Further Major henderson lost his cool and blew. It it's

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Speaker 1: a natural, reaction but he should have known.

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Speaker 2: Better, yeah and it was a big. Deal SO i

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Speaker 2: also saw That henderson was provoked by a journalist who

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Speaker 2: spat at. Him When henderson stood, up the journalists hit,

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Speaker 2: him and then Finally henderson hit him, back and all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden a bunch Of North korean troops jumped on.

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Speaker 2: Him but the fact that he took the bait was

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Speaker 2: a big deal because he was a. Major that means

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Speaker 2: you're a big deal at a camp, already like you're

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Speaker 2: fairly high. Up so him fighting back Was, yeah that

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Speaker 2: was a big. Deal.

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Speaker 1: Uh maybe an early early ish break here seems like

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Speaker 1: a good dividing.

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Speaker 3: LINE i think we.

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Speaker 2: Should, well we'll take a break and we'll come back

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Speaker 2: and talk about the tree that started the whole, thing all, Right.

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Speaker 3: All, Right josh didn't pick up on my bad pun

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Speaker 3: of the dividing. Line oh what was? It AND i,

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Speaker 3: said it's a dividing, line like you, know the thirty eighth.

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Speaker 2: Parallel it just is so natural that it's. BAD i

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Speaker 2: totally missed. It it's also early for me.

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Speaker 3: TOO i couldn't tell by the.

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Speaker 1: Way that short stuff that you sent that we're going

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Speaker 1: to record later had a bunch of puns in, it

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Speaker 1: AND i didn't know if that was intentional or.

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Speaker 2: NOT i can think of, one and it was. Intentional

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Speaker 2: there were a. Couple, okay you got to point them.

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Speaker 1: Out, yeah, boy what a little tease of a whole different.

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Speaker 1: Episode you're such a. Tease so all, right now we

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Speaker 1: get to The Paul. Bunyan what instigated The Paul bunyan

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Speaker 1: incident or? Operation which was this tree that you Mentioned

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Speaker 1: that was a. Tree it was a poplar tree near

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Speaker 1: The bridge Of No. Return and the thing you need

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Speaker 1: to know about this, tree, well there's a few, things

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Speaker 1: but one is that it blocked the view of the

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Speaker 1: line of sight between these two un command. Checkpoints and

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Speaker 1: that was a big deal because you needed an open

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Speaker 1: line of site between these checkpoints because you, know there

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Speaker 1: were incidents of like kidnapping and stuff like that and other,

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Speaker 1: shenanigans and you just you had to have that line

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Speaker 1: of sight.

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Speaker 3: OPEN. Yep so they said the unc was, like we

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Speaker 3: got to get rid of this.

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Speaker 1: Tree so they sent a couple of Unarmed South korean

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Speaker 1: workers down there to just sort of figure out the

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Speaker 1: best way to remove. It and the first sort of

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Speaker 1: reaction was The North korean guards chased them. Away so

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Speaker 1: that was sort of the line in the sand was

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Speaker 1: get out of, here get away from that.

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Speaker 4: Tree.

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Speaker 2: Yeah apparently they tried again a couple days later and

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Speaker 2: got rained, out and then finally On august, eighteenth they were, like,

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Speaker 2: okay we're just gonna go ahead and do. This those

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Speaker 2: first guys got chased, off so we're gonna essentially assign

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Speaker 2: a few men to escort. THEM i think a fifteen

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Speaker 2: man team went over On august, eighteenth led By Captain,

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Speaker 2: bonifas and they started pruning the, tree just to. Prune

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Speaker 2: at this, point, yeah they're just pruning it. Back they

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Speaker 2: just want to make sure that even during summer they

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Speaker 2: can See checkpoint, three the loneliest outpost in the, world,

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Speaker 2: because like you, said it's very dangerous to man. That

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Speaker 2: so they're just pruning it, right and very, quickly The

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Speaker 2: North koreans came over The bridge Of No return because,

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Speaker 2: remember mind bogglingly The Joint Security area was, open like

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Speaker 2: the border didn't exist in The Joint security, area So

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Speaker 2: North koreans AND Un command could just go wherever they.

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Speaker 2: Want so The North koreans show up at this, site

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Speaker 2: at the poplar tree while it's being, pruned and they're

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Speaker 2: led By Lieutenant. Pacchoule he was known As Lieutenant bulldog

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Speaker 2: by THE Un command troops because he was very, confrontational

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Speaker 2: had provoked confrontation in the past plenty of, times and

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Speaker 2: so he showed. Up so you just immediately knew that

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Speaker 2: this could go south pretty. Quickly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah and apparently he, said you, know they wanted to

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Speaker 1: keep that tree pristine Because Kim il sung personally planted

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Speaker 1: it and nourished it and it's growing under his. Supervision so,

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Speaker 1: apparently or at least they said it was a special

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Speaker 1: tree and to stand.

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Speaker 2: Down, yes Because Kim il sung was the he was

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Speaker 2: the first deer. Leader Kim jong un is his. Grandson. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: yeah and so the idea that deer leader planted that.

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Speaker 2: TREE i don't know if that's. TRUE i never saw.

280
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Speaker 2: THAT i just saw it like stated here or. There

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Speaker 2: but at the very Least pacchool said, that, Right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure IF i buy, that given what we

283
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Speaker 1: now have sort of suspected about this being a, provocation

284
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Speaker 1: which we'll get, to but that sounds to me, like,

285
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,520
Speaker 1: hey let's tell him, that you know it's a special.

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Speaker 2: Tree, Yeah like he's like puck chool seemed like the

287
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,360
Speaker 2: kind who would just load you up on bs just

288
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Speaker 2: to mess with.

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Speaker 4: You.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah so he called for even more. REINFORCEMENTS i

291
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Speaker 1: think about thirty More North korean guards showed. Up he

292
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Speaker 1: Ordered Captain boniface to, stop but he turned his back on,

293
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 1: him WHICH i think, was you, know a pretty big

294
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,440
Speaker 1: insult on top of everything. Else and as the story,

295
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,280
Speaker 1: goes one of The american soldiers Saw poc take off

296
00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,720
Speaker 1: his wristwatch and put it in his, pocket which IS

297
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,160
Speaker 1: i guess a cain to Like pansie taking off his

298
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,480
Speaker 1: leather jacket like it's about to, happen and tried to Warn,

299
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 1: boniface but it was too late by that, point And

300
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,160
Speaker 1: pack ordered the attack basically by, saying LIKE i think he,

301
00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:58,240
Speaker 1: said kill the, bastards.

302
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,880
Speaker 2: Right. YEAH i saw in nineteen seven twenty Seven Army

303
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 2: War college report on the, incident and that's what they,

304
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,960
Speaker 2: said So i'm prone to believe them, yeah but he

305
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 2: said In korean, obviously. Right but right after that they

306
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:15,560
Speaker 2: the men attacked and ACTUALLY i Saw Lieutenant pocchoul Assaulted Captain,

307
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 2: bonifas who had again his back To. Pocchool, yeah he

308
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,240
Speaker 2: hit him with the karate chop in the back of

309
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,440
Speaker 2: his neck and Dropped Captain boniface and very very, Sadly

310
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 2: Captain boniface never got to his feet. Again, Yeah, like

311
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 2: immediately he was set upon BY i saw five to

312
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 2: Six North korean troops just started being beaten by. Them

313
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 2: AND i guess the people who were cutting the tree

314
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,560
Speaker 2: had a couple of, axes these, civilians and they dropped

315
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,560
Speaker 2: their axes and, ran and The North korean troops picked

316
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,360
Speaker 2: up the. Axes and here is where the reason that

317
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 2: this is called THE dmz ax incident. Begins that's.

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00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,760
Speaker 1: Right So boniface was bludgeoned to death by these guys attacking.

319
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 1: Him and you can watch this like it was on.

320
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,320
Speaker 1: Film it's very. Chaotic you can't really GET i, mean

321
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 1: it's kind of from far, away so you can't get

322
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,280
Speaker 1: a lot of, detail, right but you, know there are

323
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,480
Speaker 1: still shots in film of this stuff going. On so

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00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 1: he was bludgeoned First Lieutenant Mark barrett was also beaten to.

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00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:16,399
Speaker 3: Death he was chased.

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00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 1: Down over a retaining wall and you know sort of

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Speaker 1: THE i, mean it's sad enough as it, is But

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00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,919
Speaker 1: bonifas was due to go home to his wife and

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Speaker 1: three kids in three, days so it was made, it you,

330
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Speaker 1: know sort of especially.

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Speaker 2: Brutal, yeah and not like for a, visit like this

332
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,919
Speaker 2: was his last three days In. Korea, yeah where he

333
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,800
Speaker 2: was murdered by an axe By North korean. Troops it's

334
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 2: almost like a, Parody like it's almost too crazy to

335
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,119
Speaker 2: believe that that's how close he was to leave In.

336
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,760
Speaker 2: Korea he was also going to be promoted to major,

337
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 2: too like he was his life was like looking up

338
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:48,879
Speaker 2: when he was.

339
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,639
Speaker 3: Murdered, yeah really.

340
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 2: Sad so this was a really really big. Deal as

341
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 2: you can, imagine this is the first time that any

342
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,120
Speaker 2: un command true hoops and Any americans had been killed

343
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,560
Speaker 2: In korea since the end of The Korean. War it

344
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 2: was a huge provocation and there was a big question

345
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,320
Speaker 2: now on the, table what is The United states military

346
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 2: going to? Do, yeah that two of its officers were

347
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,960
Speaker 2: murdered by acts By North korean troops totally. Unprovoked this

348
00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,119
Speaker 2: was one hundred. Percent The North korean's doing this so

349
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,959
Speaker 2: much their fault, that like you, said it almost seems

350
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 2: like it was possibly set. Up we'll talk about that

351
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,360
Speaker 2: a little bit. Later and so there was a, big

352
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,399
Speaker 2: a big question that needed to be answered and answered really,

353
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 2: fast and that was how are we going to respond to?

354
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,880
Speaker 1: This, Yeah so on THE us side at the, time

355
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,400
Speaker 1: we Had Henry kissinger as The secretary Of state Under

356
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 1: President Gerald. Ford like we, mentioned it was seventy, six

357
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,720
Speaker 1: so it was the election year Between ford And Jimmy,

358
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,359
Speaker 1: carter And ford learned about the incident when and he

359
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 1: was at The Republican National, convention and obviously As secretary Of,

360
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 1: State kissinger was kind of in charge of figuring out

361
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,800
Speaker 1: what to. Do calls together The Washington Special Action, group

362
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,439
Speaker 1: which was a task force that was formed in sixty

363
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,119
Speaker 1: nine out Of vietnam to deal with like sort of

364
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 1: any emergencies like this that came. Up and It's Henry.

365
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,160
Speaker 1: Kissinger so he's, like would we should bomb the, Barracks

366
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,160
Speaker 1: like he wants to flatten the barracks of the guards

367
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,920
Speaker 1: that attack them and react really strongly and sinto you,

368
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,680
Speaker 1: know a big message that this will not stand, YEAH.

369
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,639
Speaker 2: I, MEAN i can kind of understand that. Impulse he

370
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 2: was apparently the only one in The Special Action group

371
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 2: that wanted to respond with a violent, action and the

372
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:48,120
Speaker 2: reason why was because this is such a flashpoint still,

373
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 2: today but at this, TIME i, mean it was like

374
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 2: we were still in the middle of The Cold. War

375
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,239
Speaker 2: so to, us not only was This North, korea this

376
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 2: is Also china and THE ussr right behind. Them. Right oh,

377
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 2: Yeah so if you sent a missile into THE jsa

378
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 2: against The North, koreans there was a better than even

379
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 2: chance probably that you might spark a Nuclear World war. Three,

380
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 2: unluckily cooler heads. Prevailed But kissinger he was probably a little.

381
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 2: PARANOID i would. Guess he's very widely, reviled including by,

382
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 2: me So i'm pretty sure he was at least a little.

383
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 2: PARANOID i, mean he started out in The nixon, administration

384
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: for goodness, sake but he was Also his position was

385
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:37,199
Speaker 2: also that this was a provocation by The north to

386
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,959
Speaker 2: Test america's resolve because it was an election, year they

387
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 2: were trying to interfere with the. Election to make the

388
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,440
Speaker 2: point Of Gerald ford's, Opponent Jimmy, carter who was, saying

389
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 2: we need to get troops out Of. Korea we don't

390
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,719
Speaker 2: have any business being there. Anymore So kissinger thought this

391
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 2: Was North korea doing this to basically show that The

392
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 2: americans didn't belong here, anymore just to get out wasn't worth, it. Basically,

393
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:01,359
Speaker 2: Yeah AND i get the.

394
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 1: IDEA i, MEAN i was but five at the, time

395
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 1: not super into politics, yet BUT i get the idea

396
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 1: that Getting american troops out Of korea was probably a

397
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 1: pretty popular idea That carter was laying.

398
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 2: Out, yeah and you Know.

399
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 3: Vietnam, yeah, well And kissinger was still ticked off About.

400
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,919
Speaker 1: Vietnam so he was, like if we don't do, this

401
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 1: it's going to send a message that to Other asian

402
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 1: countries and THE ussr In china that we have no

403
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 1: resolve and that we're going to stand. Down and you,

404
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: know he wanted his Guy forward back in there, Obviously

405
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: so he was out, voted like you, said, thankfully but

406
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 1: he was, like all, right we still need to show a,

407
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: force like we need to do. Something and the one

408
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: thing that everybody in the room agreed, on even if

409
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 1: it WAS i, MEAN i know it was somewhat, strategical

410
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 1: but it was also. Symbolic they were like we're cutting

411
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: that gd tree. Down no matter what anyone else, Says

412
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 1: we're going to cut that thing. Down and they were

413
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 1: all like haharump for.

414
00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 2: Umph so, yeah they, Decided, okay we're not going to

415
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 2: actually destroy, anything we're not going to fire any, missiles

416
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: we're not going to kill, anybody but that doesn't mean

417
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 2: we're not going to show them that we could do

418
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 2: that if we wanted, to, Right and what they came

419
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 2: up with was known As Operation Paul, bunyan which is

420
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 2: one of the better names of any Operation i've ever. Heard, yeah.

421
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: Totally it was under command Of General Richard. Stillwell he

422
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: was the commander in chief of THE un command, there

423
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: and the, message like you, said was to sort of,

424
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: intimidate show that we could do something if we wanted.

425
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 1: To they had forty thousand troops over there that WERE i,

426
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: Mean dave says here it was raised To defcon, three

427
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,239
Speaker 1: which is somewhat counterintuitive because it's raising a number even

428
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 1: though it's being, lowered, right.

429
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah right in the middle between one and, five

430
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 2: and one's the. Highest it is very.

431
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 1: Confusing, yeah so you're raising deaf, coon but the number goes.

432
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: Lower it took me a second to figure that. Out

433
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: BUT i have seen, wargame SO i know how it.

434
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 1: Works and a digit see The house Of. Dynamite have

435
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: you seen that, yet the New Catherine bigelow. Movie, no

436
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: IT'S i think it's. ON i think it's A netflix

437
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 1: movie about sort of a modern you, know what would

438
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 1: happen if nuclear arms were, Launched like what would we?

439
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: Do so it's a very tense thing and there's lots

440
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: of deaf con talk.

441
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 3: AND i liked a lot of. It, YEAH i might

442
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 3: say THAT.

443
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: I can get. THAT i think she's directly funded by THE.

444
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: Cia On Catherine, Bigelow, yeah.

445
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: She definitely has her, niche you. Know, yeah for, SURE

446
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 1: i would recommend. IT i didn't care for the third.

447
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 2: Act that, much But house Of. DYNAMITE i think that's

448
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: what it's. Called.

449
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: Great, Nay, YEAH i mean you Get Idris elba as the,

450
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: president so that's always a good.

451
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 3: Move, Oh i'll say.

452
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 2: That, wait you're talking about. That he's in it With John.

453
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: Cena John cena is The American president And Idris elba's

454
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: The Prime minister and they actually end up being like action.

455
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: Heroes, No Idris elba is The American, President John cena

456
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: is he's nowhere to be.

457
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 2: Found i'm thinking of something you think it's.

458
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: About, Anyway Operation Paul bunyan is set up. FOR i,

459
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: MEAN i Know i'm Saying, bungyan but that's just because

460
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 1: my weird. Accent It's. Bunyan august twenty, first this is

461
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: three days after The axe. Attack and what they were

462
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: going to do was mobilize sort of the largest mobilization

463
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: of our forces and defenses on The korean peninsula since

464
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: that fifty Three armistice with some pretty heavy artillery and

465
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: airships and sea.

466
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 3: Ships.

467
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: YEAH i, mean remember When Captain boniface went to escort

468
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 2: the tree trimmers there were fifteen. People now there's eight

469
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: hundred men involved in this tree trimming and it's not

470
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: even a tree trimming at this. Point right, now they're

471
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 2: aiming to cut the tree.

472
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 3: Down, yeah they hate this tree at this. Point they

473
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 3: want that tree.

474
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 2: Dead especially if they think that dear leader planted. It,

475
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 2: right this tree has now become super. Symbolic blood has

476
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: been shed to prune this. Tree and you said that

477
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: there was a ton of artillery armaments as part of

478
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: the show of, force and, boy you got it.

479
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: Right, YEAH i, mean they had flying overhead and clear

480
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: view so everyone could, see you, know what was going.

481
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: On they had Twenty huey. Helicopters they had Twelve cobra,

482
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 1: GUNSHIPS b fifty two, bombers tank, BUSTER f Four phantom

483
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: fighter JETS f one to eleven strategic. BOMBS i mean

484
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: they're pulling out all the stops and off the. Coast

485
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: they had THE USSS uss DID I sa three s's

486
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: or TWO uss, midway four frigates and a cruiser and

487
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: aircraft taking off flying. OVERHEAD i mean it was a

488
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: real show of.

489
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 3: Intimidation.

490
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: Yeah THOSE b fifty twos that take the intimidation even

491
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 2: further were flying Inside North korean airspace not too far From.

492
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 2: Peonyang they were also strapped with. Nukes there were nuclear

493
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: missiles in this theater, now not just THE b fifty

494
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: twos carrying, them but THOSE f one to elevens were

495
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 2: also carrying nuclear warheads as. Missiles so the idea is,

496
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: here as part Of Operation Paul bunyan is to trim

497
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 2: the tree or cut the tree down now and also

498
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: Show North korea, like do you do not want to

499
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: mess with? Us DO i ever do anything like that?

500
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 2: Again and to be prepared that If North korea did do,

501
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 2: something if they were provoked by this tree cutting, down

502
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 2: that they would just be essentially wiped off the map

503
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 2: as a as a. Nation, yeah for.

504
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: Sure and you know the whole AFTER i was studying all,

505
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: this right in the middle of, IT i got weirdly

506
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: very sad for this.

507
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 3: Tree.

508
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: YEAH i saw that tree in all of. It i've

509
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 2: seen other people refer to as the poor.

510
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: TREE i, know because in the middle of all this,

511
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: STUFF i, mean these you, know bombers are flying, overhead

512
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: and these troops are massing these heavy artillery on each

513
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: side of the, bridge AND i just picture, that you.

514
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 3: KNOW i Know i'm.

515
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: ANTHROPOMORPHISING i always say that. Wrong say it for me.

516
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: Anthropomorphizing you, said you just said so, lowly.

517
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 3: That's, right this.

518
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: Tree BUT i just pictured this poor tree sitting, there like,

519
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: MAN i JUST i just want to be a.

520
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: TREE i WISH i were a.

521
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 3: SHRUB i want to Start World war three or be cut.

522
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: DOWN i know that tree did not get their.

523
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 3: Wish oh grow, SLOWER i promise.

524
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: Right, HERE i can just shed a few.

525
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: Limbs So Major General john Singlab dave helped us with.

526
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 1: This found a quote that just showed how serious this,

527
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: was and he said it was my estimate shared by

528
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: many of the, staff that the operation stood a fifty

529
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: to fifty chance of starting a, war and that would

530
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: have Been World war, three.

531
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely a nuclear. War this tree cutting operation could have

532
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: Sparked World war, three no. Joke, again that is how

533
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: tense things are at THE dmz even still to this.

534
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 3: Day all, right should we take a.

535
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: Break, yeah let's take a, break and then we're going

536
00:27:52,600 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 2: to talk About Operation Paul bunyan. Commencing, So, chuck this

537
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 2: is not a reckless. Thing as a matter of, fact

538
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 2: this was really. Calculated you Mentioned General, stilwell who was

539
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: in charge of Every american troop In. Korea he personally

540
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 2: came up with this plan and he was not a,

541
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 2: warhawk but he also it was a really good, plan

542
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: especially if all of the troops like followed orders and

543
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: nobody tried anything provocative and nobody took any bait from

544
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: The North. Koreans it was a very good. Plan but

545
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 2: The United states was not reckless in. This in carrying

546
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: out this, plan they actually got in touch With china

547
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: and THE ussr and basically basically, said, hey you, know

548
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: we're thinking about doing something like, this And china and

549
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: the USS a both signaled that they were not going

550
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 2: to do anything If North korea started, fighting That North

551
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: korea was on their. OWN i think they've blinked twice

552
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: and pulled their left ear lobe and then touched the

553
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: bill of their, cap and The United states is, like,

554
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 2: oh we. Gotcha so now it was a little less,

555
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 2: tense even though it could still start a war With North.

556
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: Korea at least we had this idea That china and

557
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: THE ussr wouldn't immediately. Intervene.

558
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: YEAH i immediately thought Of Doctor, strangelove AND i could.

559
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 3: Just Hear Peter sellers on the phone, going.

560
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: Well, dmitri you see there's this tree that's, Perfect it's so.

561
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: GREAT i think we didn't mention too that the actual

562
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: tree cutting was going to be done by unarmed military.

563
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 3: Engineers that they sent.

564
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: Forward.

565
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: YEAH i, mean the fact that they weren't armed is

566
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: kind of neither here nor, there because there were so many.

567
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: ARMS i think the people actually on the bridge supposedly

568
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: just had like, these you, know clubs and axe handles

569
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: and side, arms but both sides of the bridge were

570
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: stocked with heavy artillery from both. Sides AND i also

571
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: saw that The Korean South korean faction that was assisting,

572
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: us they rolled in and blocked the, bridge AND i

573
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: don't think they were supposed to have anything more than just,

574
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 1: pistols but they unloaded a bunch of sand bags and

575
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: had a bunch OF m sixteens hidden that they took.

576
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: Out, yeah they also showed that they had claymore mines

577
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: land mines strapped to their chests and they had the

578
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: detonators in their other hand and were daring The North

579
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: koreans to come get them because they would blow themselves

580
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: up in The North. Koreans and this had not been

581
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: passed by THE Un Command force or anything like. That

582
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: no one had any idea that The South korean commandos

583
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: were going to do something like, that because, again we're

584
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: trying to not let this, be you, know any more

585
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: tense than it already. Is and all of a sudden

586
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: there's essentially suicide bombers on the, scenes like mocking The North.

587
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 2: Koreans so that definitely altered things a little. Bit playmore With.

588
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: Claymore oh, YEAH i forgot. THAT i knew that from

589
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: being a. Kid where where'd you hear? That is that

590
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 2: just from the military and it trickled.

591
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 3: Out, NO i thought it Was The, simpsons wasn't.

592
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: It. NO i think it was like a maybe in

593
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 2: a rambow or something. Like there's no WAY i would

594
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 2: have known that as a.

595
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: Kid, Otherwise, OKAY i can't remember WHERE i heard it,

596
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: first but at any, rate it's a very tense.

597
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 3: SCENE i think we've setting that.

598
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: Up and, again you, know we had orders not to,

599
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: provoke like our mission is to cut that tree, down

600
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: but all hell's going to break loose if anything. Happens

601
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: and like you, Mentioned North korea had some pretty decent

602
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,959
Speaker 1: incentive to kind of start some. Fighting they didn't Want

603
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: World war, three but they wanted, to you, know they

604
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: Wanted South korea still at this.

605
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 3: Point.

606
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah plus Also Kim il, sung The Dear, leader the

607
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: First Dear, leader he was A communist guerrilla fighting The

608
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: japanese In World War. Two he was battle hardened and. Tested,

609
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: yeah so he was totally into. Fighting he wasn't like

610
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 2: a dove or a diplomat at. All.

611
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: Yeah AND i think we didn't mention too that the

612
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: previous tree, trimming supposedly we had told them that this

613
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: was going to, happen and so the whole provocation to begin,

614
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,719
Speaker 1: with if they knew about it ahead of, time then

615
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: they came down there with that, knowledge because they didn't

616
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: raise any. Objections apparently that we were, like, hey were

617
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: going to trim this tree so we can have a

618
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: better line of sight and you'll have a better line of,

619
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: sight and no one said, anything you, know to the.

620
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: Contrary so the whole thing was really provocation by The North.

621
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 3: Koreans.

622
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely that was the first time When Captain bonifass

623
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 2: And Lieutenant barrett got, murdered.

624
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly which again made it sort of seem

625
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: like it was planned to begin.

626
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: With, yeah for. Sure so at oh seven hundred, hours

627
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 2: that's seven am On august twenty, first nineteen seventy, Six

628
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: Operation Paul bunyan, commences and like you, SAID i mean

629
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 2: basically what we described there was there was an order

630
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: not to. ENGAGE i mean, essentially if The North koreans

631
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: started unloading with sniper fire or machine, guns then, yes

632
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: we're going to. Engage and it was a very tense,

633
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 2: operation but they got in. There the military engineers cut

634
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: the tree essentially down to a ten foot. Stump they

635
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: were USING i Read vietnam era issue chainsaws that weren't

636
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: in very good, shape so it took him a little.

637
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: While but it took him about forty five minutes to

638
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: complete the whole. Thing and they should have sent out Leather.

639
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 2: Face he should.

640
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: Have he could have gotten that done in ten.

641
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 2: Minutes, Yeah but they left this big stump with a

642
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: two like it was branching at the, top and one

643
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 2: of the soldiers who was at the scene said that

644
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: it had looked like somebody raising their arms in, surrender

645
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: like The North koreans were. Surrendering, YEAH i saw.

646
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: That kissinger tried to get a carving artist in there

647
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: to shape it in the form of the middle.

648
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: Finger.

649
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: Right those guys are, great the chainsaw. Artists, Man, yeah

650
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: it's pretty. AMAZING i don't know if the intent was

651
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: ever to cut down the entire. TREE i don't think

652
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 2: that that was the, plan even in the second, time

653
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: even In Operation Paul. Bunyan but they left this. Stump

654
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 2: everybody on THE us side just went back. Out they just.

655
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: Withdrew the operation was, successful but things were still quite.

656
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: Tense it's not it wasn't clear Whether North korea was

657
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 2: going to respond, still just because the operation was done

658
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 2: and now there weren't a bunch of Troops america or

659
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 2: THE Un. Command they just kept patrolling The Joint Security

660
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: area like it was any other day because that's what

661
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: it was supposed to. Be even though this operation had,

662
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 2: commenced it was now, over so things were supposed to

663
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: go back to, normal but we still had no idea

664
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 2: What North korea was going to.

665
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: Do, so you, know pretext to this was they were

666
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: very unapologetic about the whole incident leading up to, that

667
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: like After Captain boniface And Lieutenant barrett were, killed but

668
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: After Paul bunyan they thankfully backed off that there wasn't

669
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:11,959
Speaker 1: like an expressed, apology But President Kim il sung did

670
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: express regret for those, deaths so they clearly were sort

671
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: of backing down at this, point you, know much to everyone's.

672
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: Relief and it was this incident that basically everyone was, like,

673
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: hey you know, what.

674
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 3: Maybe this maybe we didn't think this through.

675
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,479
Speaker 1: How this thing operates with these guys all being here

676
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: in the same place at all, times and so it's

677
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: set up much differently. Now so the actual line that

678
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: runs the link of THE dmc is the actual dividing

679
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: line even through THE gs THE.

680
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: Jsa, yeah that dividing, line the military demarcation, line that

681
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 2: is the actual border as far AS i, understand Between

682
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 2: North korea And South korea with THE dmz buffers on

683
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 2: either side of, It and they just ignored it in THE,

684
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: jsa but then they started enforcing. It so now The

685
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: North korean troops and THE u And command troops do not,

686
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: intermingle even though their posts are feet away from one. Another,

687
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 2: yeah it would be a really big deal for one

688
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 2: to attack the other because you would be crossing the.

689
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: Border now there's no free fight. Invasion it would be

690
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 2: an enormous. Deal it'd be an international. Incident and in,

691
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 2: fact there was something like that in nineteen eighty. Four

692
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 2: there was A soviet exchange student who was on a

693
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: tour with The North koreans who ran across the border

694
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 2: to defect into The west and a firefight started that

695
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: resulted in the deaths of Three North koreans and ONE

696
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: u In Command South korean, Soldier and it was a, huge,

697
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 2: again an international incident because some of The North korean

698
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: troops had run across the demarcation line to chase after the. Defector,

699
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 2: yeah for.

700
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: Sure so everyone is like pretty happy and considered it

701
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: a success except For. Kissinger of, course The North koreans

702
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: back down really, quickly so it really didn't give him

703
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: any chance during this election year to kind of tout

704
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: some big victory Of. AMERICA i, mean it was a,

705
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,959
Speaker 1: victory BUT i don't think it was like some huge

706
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: international news thing he. Wanted he still wanted them to

707
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: have blown up the barracks or to taken out like

708
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: a warship or two as like a big show of.

709
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: Force so everyone was pretty stoked except For Old.

710
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 2: Henry so they left that poplar tree there as a,

711
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: reminder a monument of. Sorts, actually until the tenth anniversary

712
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: of the axe murder incident On august, eighteenth nineteen eighty,

713
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 2: six they pulled the tree, out stump and, all roots and,

714
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: all and replaced it with a Memorial and there's a

715
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: plaque on it that reads on this spot was located

716
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: the yellow poplar tree which was the focal point of

717
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: the axe murders of Two United nations command, officers Kept

718
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: Arthur bonifas And First Lieutenant Mark, barrett who were attacked

719
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: and killed By North korean guards while supervising a work

720
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 2: party trimming the tree on Eighteen august nineteen seventy, six

721
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 2: and it's just so plainly put without any flowery language

722
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: that it also just kind of gets across the horrible

723
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: absurdity of the whole. Thing, yeah for.

724
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: Sure and just a few years, ago in twenty twenty,

725
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: two that was a sort of a.

726
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 3: Joint show of.

727
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,760
Speaker 1: Not, friendship but like maybe we should kind of literally

728
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: put this to rest by planting a. TREE i think

729
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: the presidents of the two countries got together in THE

730
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: jsa to plant a pine tree of, peace and they took,

731
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: turned shoveling soil from each, side watered it with rivers

732
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: from each, side and the pine tree Of peace became you,

733
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: know and right now is sort of a big symbol

734
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: of kind of what happened there and maybe let's try

735
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: and just chill things out a little.

736
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: Bit. Yeah what made it even more significant was that

737
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: The South korean president Moonjay in was actually one of

738
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 2: The South korean commandos who took part in. Operation, yeah it's.

739
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: Crazy and then there's one other little note THAT i

740
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 2: found pretty. Interesting there's a one whole par three well.

741
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 2: GOLF i don't think you could call it a, course

742
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 2: but it's it's like an astro turf part, well a

743
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: par three that's surrounded by land mines now where the

744
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: poplar tree used to, be and it's called the most

745
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: dangerous hole in golf From Sports.

746
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: Illustrated, yeah and we never really, said you, know we

747
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: kind of hinted around that this might have been all

748
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: planned to begin.

749
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 3: With and there is circumstantial evidence.

750
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 1: That suggests that that whole attack was pre planned to begin, with,

751
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: right you, know BECAUSE i mentioned that we had gotten

752
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: in touch with him and, said, hey we're going to

753
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: prune this, tree and no one really said, like, no

754
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: don't do, that and so that attack seemingly came out of.

755
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: Nowhere but one big clue, WAS i think three minutes

756
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: after this incident, Occurred Radio, pyonyang which is The North

757
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: korean state, radio they broadcast a very biased report on,

758
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: this like right after it. Happened so it seems pretty

759
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 1: clear that it was pre, planned but analysis later on

760
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: seems to indicate that The soviets did not know about

761
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: it and they were kind of acting on their. Own.

762
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: NO i saw one other piece of circumstantial evidence too

763
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: that kind of is pretty, definitive is that within five

764
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 2: hours there was a non aligned, nation which where the

765
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 2: nations during The Cold war who didn't choose. Sides all

766
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 2: of them were meeting In, korea and within five, Hours

767
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 2: korean delegates were at that meeting handing out memos describing

768
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: this the axe murders and totally blaming it on The,

769
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: americans like had completely flipped it around in an effort

770
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 2: to kind of drum up support to get The americans.

771
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: Out so that's it does seem pretty likely that The

772
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 2: North koreans planned the axe. Murders, YEAH i, agreed you

773
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 2: got anything?

774
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 3: Else got nothing?

775
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 2: Else this is a good, one. Man hats off to

776
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 2: the the person or people who suggested, it and maybe

777
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 2: listen out for a future random episode where we thank

778
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 2: you for.

779
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 3: IT i couldn't find. IT i might have found this

780
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: on my.

781
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 2: Own i'll help. You, look you know.

782
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: WHAT i. THINK i was looking for live show topics

783
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: and came across.

784
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 2: This oh, Cool, yeah this would have been a good.

785
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 2: One but there's there's a lot of downers. Too, yeah

786
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 2: not a lot of, jokey ridiculous. Stuff, yeah do you

787
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 2: have anything? ELSE i do? Not, Okay well that means

788
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 2: it's time for. Listener.

789
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: Man i'm gonna call this the pain of, preemption because

790
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: that's What michael called. It, hey, guys Love Saturday Morning cartoon.

791
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: EPISODE i was born in eighty four and watched them

792
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: well into high. School your episode covered a, lot but

793
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: you left out one, thing the pain of. Preemption local

794
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: channels carried the big networks would often cut off the

795
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: cartoons to show.

796
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 3: Golf baseball or other.

797
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: Sports and as a, KID i, KNOW i never knew

798
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: when this is gonna. Happen just, suddenly the joy of

799
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: cartoon was abruptly halted show a golf match that no

800
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: kid would care. ABOUT i never got to see The

801
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: christmas Special, christopher The Christmas, tree or the last episode

802
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 1: Of Ultimate. Muscle you haven't heard of any either one of.

803
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 2: THOSE i haven't, Either BUT i still feel for, him he.

804
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: SAID i don't want to bring down the, room but

805
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: it's important to remember that those wonderful mornings could be

806
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: broken at any. Time thanks for making such a great.

807
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: Show that is From michael j. Crandall AND i forgot

808
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: to Mention. Michael his initial salutation was Dear mike And.

809
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 2: Josh, wow he's got himself on the. BRAIN i. Know,

810
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 2: well that was a great, Email, michael and thank you

811
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 2: To mike for reading.

812
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 3: It, Okay i'll Be.

813
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: Mike, no you're Not, mike Your. Chuck everybody knows.

814
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: That that's my brother's middle name, too, though so that

815
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: was a plat Yeah, Scott.

816
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 3: Mike oh, no, no, no that's his first.

817
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: NAME i forget my brother and my sister their middle

818
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 1: name is their, name which is.

819
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 3: Interesting i'm not sure why that.

820
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: Happened this has gotten so confusing to.

821
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 3: Me He's Michael, scott is he?

822
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: Really? Yeah that's. Awesome why are you calling him that

823
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 2: all the?

824
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 3: TIME i don't, KNOW i probably.

825
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: SHOULD i, mean that's the office, guy, right, yeah, yeah,

826
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: YEAH i never have thought about that until right.

827
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: Now well that's What i'm going to call him from now.

828
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: On all, Right, okay if you want to be Like

829
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 2: michael crandall Not Michael scott and send us an, email

830
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 2: we would love. That please. Do you can send it

831
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 2: off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot.

832
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: Com stuff You Should know is a production Of. iHeartRadio

833
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: for more podcasts my Heart, radio visit The iHeartRadio, App Apple,

834
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite, shows