Speaker 1: The media, Woman life Freedom. Such was the slogan of
Speaker 1: the women's movement considered key to the project of the
Speaker 1: Democratic Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, also known
Speaker 1: as Rajava. Though originating in the Kurdish liberation struggle, the
Speaker 1: project quickly became polyethnic. There are Syrians, Arabs, Armenians, Czds,
Speaker 1: and other groups involved in that project, and in fact,
Speaker 1: the internationally recognized name Rajava has fallen out of use
Speaker 1: by the project's administration in an effort to de ethnicize
Speaker 1: the project. I'm going to keep using Rajava simply because
Speaker 1: it's quicker to say than DAA n ees, or than
Speaker 1: yes or any other combination, but just wanted to put
Speaker 1: that disclaimer out in the beginning. So in the midst
Speaker 1: the Syrian Civil War, the region gained its de facto
Speaker 1: autonomy in twenty twelve and pursued a somewhat unique political
Speaker 1: experiment for crassroots governance and social legal reforms that have
Speaker 1: attracted significant international fever and support. Do not recognize internationally
Speaker 1: as autonomous, except by the Catalan Parliament for obvious reasons.
Speaker 1: For the past decade plus, the people in the region
Speaker 1: have fought fastly for independence from Isis patriarchy, Turkish incursions,
Speaker 1: and other Syrian opposition groups, but recent events led to
Speaker 1: the newly minted Assyrian government having seriously jeopardized the autonomy
Speaker 1: of the project. Welcome, take it happen here. I'm Andrew Sage,
Speaker 1: also Androism on YouTube, and I'm joined once again. It's me,
Speaker 1: It's James, Yes, and I had to talk to you
Speaker 1: about this because I know that you have contacts there,
Speaker 1: you have experience with that project, with the people involved,
Speaker 1: And yeah, we're here to discuss the fate of Rajavo.
Speaker 2: I'm always excited to talk about Rajava, and I think
Speaker 2: it's super important that we talk about it right now. Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of bad stuff happening currently, but this
Speaker 2: is really bad. Like in Rejava, we had the opportunity
Speaker 2: to see people living without gods or masters, people building
Speaker 2: democracy without the state. We had the opportunity to and
Speaker 2: we have the opportunity right So Rashava is not gone.
Speaker 2: But like anarchism didn't have to be like an ideological
Speaker 2: construct that only exists in our little punk hows it's
Speaker 2: it existed in it in an area where millions.
Speaker 1: Of people lived.
Speaker 2: And yet so we should talk about how we can
Speaker 2: be in solidarity with them in this very difficult time
Speaker 2: right right.
Speaker 1: In fact, as we're on that topic, I think it's
Speaker 1: useful to have a brief explanation of the history and
Speaker 1: ideology behind the Java project before we talk about what's
Speaker 1: happened most recently. Yeah, So, in brief, the project really
Speaker 1: began into a Kyo Kurdistan Worker's Party or PKK, was
Speaker 1: banned and some of its supporters moved to Syria and
Speaker 1: founded the Democratic Union Party or PYD. Now this party
Speaker 1: shared an ideological foundation with the PKK and its founder,
Speaker 1: Abdullah Chilan, with the ideology of democratic confederalism which Alex
Speaker 1: s Bain in a sacred Rajava came into be in
Speaker 1: following the Arab Spring of twenty eleven, as various factions
Speaker 1: of Syrians rose up against President Bashar al Assad, and
Speaker 1: in such a climate of conflict, ISIS rose to prominence
Speaker 1: to threaten the region as whole. So while Asad was
Speaker 1: dealing with other opposition groups in Damascus, he withdrew forces
Speaker 1: from North Syria, which left the region vulnerable to ISIS
Speaker 1: and to key Kurdish groups in North Syria then formed
Speaker 1: the Kurdish National Council to secure the area, but after
Speaker 1: an ideological split, the project of Rajava would emerge as
Speaker 1: a polyethnic polity composed of the cantons of Afrin, Jazira,
Speaker 1: and Kubani. The PID operates Java within a political coalition
Speaker 1: called the Syrian Democratic Council or SDC. The YPG or
Speaker 1: People's Defense Units and the YPG or Women's Defense Units
Speaker 1: are the paramilitaries forming the bulk of the political assemblies
Speaker 1: and military coalership, which is called the Syrian Democratic Forces
Speaker 1: or SDF. I know, it's a lot of acronyms being
Speaker 1: thrown at you at once.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an alphabet too. I think until relatively recently,
Speaker 2: the bulk of the sdf's forces were Arab. You have
Speaker 2: ideological groups that are allied, right, the Northern Democratic Front
Speaker 2: a ji shell for war at one point, and then
Speaker 2: you have these groups which are more tribally based, and
Speaker 2: those groups had allied to the SDF to fight the
Speaker 2: Islamic State, right, Yes, yeah, they always want to push
Speaker 2: back on it being a majority that it's now, but
Speaker 2: that's that's that's the creation of the last eight weeks.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, I remember reading that they were the YPGYPG
Speaker 1: were forming a good chunk of the SDF. I suppose
Speaker 1: that was more recent information that I had seen.
Speaker 2: Then, Yeah, I think it would have been or like
Speaker 2: you will see that published in broadsheet newspapers and have
Speaker 2: done for decades.
Speaker 1: Like it just wrong.
Speaker 2: But there was this tendency in the I guess the
Speaker 2: Western press, right, And some of this is somewhat orientalist
Speaker 2: in a way, Like they referred to the SDF as
Speaker 2: the Kurds because Kurds were somehow seen as closer to
Speaker 2: European people than Arabs, and like it attempted to sort
Speaker 2: of I guess, to make it more palatable to an audience.
Speaker 1: Right, a kind of a racial ekin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the friends, we can talk about
Speaker 2: friends versus whatever else. Slater but would push back on that.
Speaker 2: They would tell you that SDF was majority Arabs certainly
Speaker 2: at the time it forought the Islamic state, and of
Speaker 2: course there were Assyrians and Armenians and your CDs and
Speaker 2: international volunteers as well.
Speaker 1: For sure, for sure. So you had these cirind Democratic
Speaker 1: Consuls or the SDC, led primarily by THEPID right. They
Speaker 1: were taken on the task of both fights in the
Speaker 1: Islamists while engaged in an ideological project to bring democratic
Speaker 1: confederalism into practice in North Syria. So democratic confederalism is
Speaker 1: a transitional political movement that tries to move beyond the
Speaker 1: nation state by refusing to seize state power. Instead of
Speaker 1: organizing society through the state, they seek to organize society
Speaker 1: through local assemblies that manage their own affairs while coordinating
Speaker 1: action through confederation. Democratic and federalism emphasizes pluralism over nationalism,
Speaker 1: secularism over religious government, and restorative justice, gender liberation, ecological sustainability,
Speaker 1: cooperative and communal economic forms. Democratic and feralism was seen
Speaker 1: as seen as a pragmatic way of building collective self
Speaker 1: organization within the purview of the existing dominant state model
Speaker 1: of the world, while gradually undermining its authority. Now, the
Speaker 1: gender liberation component in particular has received a lot of
Speaker 1: international attention thanks to the pid's efforts to put it
Speaker 1: into practice. They established gender parity quotas in all administrative,
Speaker 1: political and decision making bodies and leadership roles. They established
Speaker 1: women's councils address women's issues. They established the Women's Protection
Speaker 1: Units or YPG, which is an all female army which
Speaker 1: is very popular and they established laws to ban honor
Speaker 1: killings and child marriage, while strengthening the divorce rights of women.
Speaker 1: So these efforts and others within Rajava have guardered worldwide
Speaker 1: admiration for the project, and many international volunteers have visited
Speaker 1: Rajava to help them fight. And if you're in a
Speaker 1: lot of online anarchist circles, you've probably heard a lot
Speaker 1: about Rajava and solidarity with deliberation. But I think it
Speaker 1: has created a misconception that the solidarity that anarchists feel
Speaker 1: with for Java is equivalent to one to one ideological alignment. Yeah. Right,
Speaker 1: what they're doing is not anarchism, it's kind of its
Speaker 1: own thing. It's Democrats Confederate the film. Yeah, and this
Speaker 1: has been a band that in solid to the people,
Speaker 1: of course, but it just means, you know, being clear
Speaker 1: that we are fighting for a will in which many
Speaker 1: rules exist. Yeah, and so are they, and we are
Speaker 1: just willing to stand with and observe that project and
Speaker 1: you know, wish for the best and hope for the
Speaker 1: best and see what comes of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are anarchist formations within the SDF right Techosy analyses.
Speaker 2: It means anarchists struggle. It's it's like a more doctrinally
Speaker 2: anarchist formation. And like the way that they would phrase
Speaker 2: their like participation is that they are there in solidarity,
Speaker 2: right and like you say, we want a world where
Speaker 2: many worlds can exist, and so they can offer and
Speaker 2: they if you go to Rija, people will ask you
Speaker 2: to offer feedback right at the Curtish words technical report
Speaker 2: of feedback. They are willing to hear an anarchist critique
Speaker 2: and engage with it. That doesn't mean that they are anarchists,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean that they are opposed to anarchists either.
Speaker 1: They're more willing to engage with anarchism than most.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then almost anywhere else I have been in the world,
Speaker 2: maybe aside from Myanmar, but yeah, they will engage with
Speaker 2: and have these discussions. And they're on an ideological journey, right.
Speaker 2: The movement began within what they would call the nation
Speaker 2: state paradigm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the PKK was originally Marxist.
Speaker 2: Lend and oger land thinking has very much been like
Speaker 2: his journey has led the movement on a political philosophy journey,
Speaker 2: I guess. And there are different interpretations of different movements
Speaker 2: in different parts of Kurdistan that draw on his political philosophy,
Speaker 2: but as his thinking while he was detained in Turkey
Speaker 2: moved towards this democratic confederalist outlook, influenced about reading Married
Speaker 2: Book Chain, among others, the movement also moved, and I
Speaker 2: think it was very well placed when the statist state
Speaker 2: withdrew to try and implement this like like you've mentioned
Speaker 2: right self government, the brotherhood of people's all these things,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't always there, and it has been willing
Speaker 2: to change and willing to move it to ideology over time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's the thing. We want to
Speaker 1: look at people and projects and judge based on where
Speaker 1: we are in our position and our ideological alignment. Because
Speaker 1: none of us necessarily started off as anarchists, right and
Speaker 1: while we may wish that as an anarchist, I would
Speaker 1: wish that, you know, these projects would move closer to
Speaker 1: anarchy and would pursue and explore an experiment with that ideal,
Speaker 1: and that idea. Everybody's on their own journey, and you know,
Speaker 1: at this stage in capitalist global domina and status global dominance,
Speaker 1: we have to let whatever experiments exist or explore the
Speaker 1: different angles. You know, there's not one right way quite
Speaker 1: yet or they may never be you know. As one
Speaker 1: on the topic of disclaimers, I suppose I think it
Speaker 1: is important to address that, you know, the SDF is
Speaker 1: not all sunshine and ruses. You know, there have been
Speaker 1: allegations of war crimes, including the recruitment of children, and
Speaker 1: the allegations are forced to target a displacement. Now, not
Speaker 1: all of these allegations have been conclusively verified, and there
Speaker 1: are a lot of actors have been involved in Syria
Speaker 1: over the years that are pushed in narratives and commuted
Speaker 1: narratives that have to be scrutinized on a case by
Speaker 1: case basis. Some of the war crime allegations, for example,
Speaker 1: have been made by Turkey, which is pretty suspect considering
Speaker 1: their track record of both hostility towards Rajava and the
Speaker 1: Kiddish Autonomy, and also their practice of war crimes on
Speaker 1: a semi regular basis themselves. You know. Yeah, but still
Speaker 1: hypocrisy has said, I think it is important to not
Speaker 1: turn a blind eye to these kinds of problems and
Speaker 1: allegations when they are made.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agreed, Like, if people are being compelled
Speaker 2: to do things through violence, that is what the state
Speaker 2: is right and that is what we want to stop.
Speaker 2: And so if that is happening, then we should condemn it, right,
Speaker 2: be that where they're being compelled to fight or compelled
Speaker 2: to leave their homes, like that is a thing that
Speaker 2: we are opposed to inherently, right, and it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: who's doing it is the action itself is something that
Speaker 2: we are opposed to. And yeah, we should again, like
Speaker 2: we should look at this like not through like rose To.
Speaker 2: I know talk a lot about this, but I translated
Speaker 2: a piece from French a couple of years ago from
Speaker 2: an anarchist who had fought in Spain, and it's called
Speaker 2: Refuting the Legend, and the main thesis of the piece
Speaker 2: was that we should engage with the Spanish civil wars.
Speaker 2: It was not as we wished it to be, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that way we could learn from it and get
Speaker 2: better as opposed to just create in a hagiography and
Speaker 2: like a you know, like saints' lives exactly the same
Speaker 2: applies here, I.
Speaker 1: Think, yeah, because the ferments have been you know, few
Speaker 1: and far between. Unfortunately the major experiments, that is, the
Speaker 1: massive ones, the ones that make historical headlines. And I
Speaker 1: think there is a temptation to as you say in
Speaker 1: constructor a hagiography to glorify and venerate these these attempts,
Speaker 1: I think it's very important for us we to treat them.
Speaker 1: It's scrutiny, you know, to hould them up to certain standards,
Speaker 1: and to evaluate their missteps and to highlight their missteps
Speaker 1: even more than we highlight this successes, because I see
Speaker 1: only way we're going to succeed in the future. So
Speaker 1: if we're willing to address and engage with those mystiques.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I think on that point, the way that
Speaker 2: I see what's happening Jabre is not in a monolithic way.
Speaker 2: Their tendencies and organizations within the revolution, right, there are
Speaker 2: some who are probably operating in a paradigm that is
Speaker 2: not that far from the like ethno nationalist or kind
Speaker 2: of nationalist Marxist paradigm. There are some that are operating
Speaker 2: closer to an anarchist paradigm. There are some who are
Speaker 2: somewhere in between those two things, right, And there are
Speaker 2: some who would just want the Islamic state or the
Speaker 2: New Syrian State or the Assadis state to go away
Speaker 2: and leave them alone. And that's why they picked up arms,
Speaker 2: and that's what they're fighting for and like, yeah, again, right,
Speaker 2: we shouldn't we should be suspicious of a movement which
Speaker 2: is entirely homogeneous. We should be concerned, but I have
Speaker 2: concerns about the way some dissenting voices have been treated
Speaker 2: in the A and E s in the past year.
Speaker 2: We should raise those concerns. But like, it would be
Speaker 2: inaccurate to view this movement as a monolith.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And that's the thing it's important to is concerned.
Speaker 1: It's it's sad that this phrase has been masterdized because
Speaker 1: it's a useful freeze, right, that is, you know, critical support, yeah,
Speaker 1: or critical solidarity. It's been taken by certain Internet actors too,
Speaker 1: you know, to propagate apology for atrocities and the raisure
Speaker 1: of state violence. But it is a useful way of
Speaker 1: I think freemen. The way we should engage these projects.
Speaker 1: That solidarity doesn't imply that you keep them out shut,
Speaker 1: that you don't seek to learn, that you don't respectfully criticize.
Speaker 1: That is, I think the best way to engage these
Speaker 1: projects not to you know, close their eyes and just
Speaker 1: follow absolutely. Getting back to I suppose what's been happening
Speaker 1: more recently, things have not been easy for the movement
Speaker 1: really since the beginning into A twelve, it has for
Speaker 1: a long time been caught in a web of conflicting
Speaker 1: and conversion interests. In addition to fightin Issis and other
Speaker 1: Jiadist groups, Rajava managed to receive back in from the
Speaker 1: US out of a coincidence of interests and tactical necessity,
Speaker 1: as I would put it, which is confused in some
Speaker 1: circles of the idea that Rajava is a US designed
Speaker 1: puppet through and through right. So after the SDF liberated Raka,
Speaker 1: they began taking more heat from Turkey, which saw the
Speaker 1: YPG as inseparable from the PKK and thus a threat
Speaker 1: under the YPG is the defensive army the protective services
Speaker 1: rather and the PKK is the Kurdish party in Turkey,
Speaker 1: so they launched several military operations to prevent the Kurdish
Speaker 1: regions from linking up and having territorial continuity within Syria.
Speaker 1: At the same time, Rojava faced economic blockades, restricted movement,
Speaker 1: and strained relations with their fellow Kurdish political groups in
Speaker 1: Iraq that were aligned with two and aligned with the
Speaker 1: Pyid's political rivals, which had lost influence since the establishment
Speaker 1: of Rajava. Then you also had the occasional alignments with
Speaker 1: Russia as a strategic leverage against Tiki, and similar coincidences
Speaker 1: of interest with the governments of Iraq and Iran, and
Speaker 1: even cooperation between Rojava and a SAD government. It's interesting
Speaker 1: to me that the US alignment is what receives the
Speaker 1: most attention when it seems to me the Rajava had
Speaker 1: quite a roster of affiliations of convenience. Not to say
Speaker 1: that those partnerships or affiliations necessarily benefit them in the
Speaker 1: long run, but it's important to place those affiliations in context.
Speaker 1: Rajava has been seen and treated as a chess piece
Speaker 1: essentially by both global and regional powers as they attempt
Speaker 1: to put out a voice of their own and equaled
Speaker 1: their own autonomy. So, just before the twenty nineteen took
Speaker 1: his invasion, the US abandoned Rajava entirely, withdrawing it troops
Speaker 1: and suddenly leading into the tragic fall of several settlements
Speaker 1: to Turkey and Tiggish aligned groups. Whether that moved with
Speaker 1: a draw orlso raised the international profile of the Java struggle,
Speaker 1: as people on both sides the book spectrum were pointing
Speaker 1: out this American decision to abandon its allies in the
Speaker 1: Middle East. So, before we get to the fall of
Speaker 1: us AD, is there anything critical did you say I missed?
Speaker 2: I do a pretty good smorary. I've written, literally writen
Speaker 2: a book about this, so I like, there's always things
Speaker 2: I want to say. I was during a time when
Speaker 2: Turkey was bombing, right, in addition to going to report
Speaker 2: on them, I just saw places as I was going
Speaker 2: about my day to day life that had been bombed
Speaker 2: the night before.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I think there's this misapprehension that America is by America.
Speaker 2: I'm a musing it correctly. The United States is allied
Speaker 2: with the PYD. That's not the case. The SDF was
Speaker 2: the US partner force, specifically in what's called Operation Inherent Resolve,
Speaker 2: which is the operation against the Islamic State. Right while
Speaker 2: I was there, the US shot down a Turkish drone
Speaker 2: because it flew too close to their bases. They also
Speaker 2: didn't shoot down the dozens of other Turkish drones that
Speaker 2: killed little children while I was there, right, And I
Speaker 2: don't think anyone would reasonably expect them to because US
Speaker 2: was not there in solidarity with the revolution. It was
Speaker 2: there fighting alongside them in this one specific thing. And
Speaker 2: while that doesn't take away the fact that it is
Speaker 2: disgraceful to abandon these people who gave ten thousand plus
Speaker 2: of their children alongside the United States, right, that is shameful.
Speaker 2: It is also what we should expect from the United
Speaker 2: States people that use the word haval, which means friend,
Speaker 2: as opposed to like the way a Marxist movement might
Speaker 2: use comra. The friends there understood the terms of their
Speaker 2: agreement with the US, doesn't mean that they were not disappointed.
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean that they would not ask for assistance when
Speaker 2: their children are dying. Of course it would, but those
Speaker 2: that are terms on which the US was allied with them,
Speaker 2: and certainly the US did not ideologically influence them. Perhaps
Speaker 2: the opposite is the case. There are certainly some people
Speaker 2: in the US military who went over there and came
Speaker 2: back seeing the world differently. Turkey actually called the US
Speaker 2: government because some of the US soldiers who were wearing
Speaker 2: abdulahill on patches at one point and raised complaints about it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think it's important to understand the terms
Speaker 2: of the arrangement between them. Otherwise I think that's a
Speaker 2: pretty good praisie of the way things were. Do you
Speaker 2: have anything about Shengal?
Speaker 1: No, I don't.
Speaker 2: I'll do my potted. People can read my book if
Speaker 2: they'd like to hear more about its operation. I've sent
Speaker 2: one to you Andrew. Hopefully it's making its way across
Speaker 2: the ocean. What so Shengal the sacred mountain of the Ads.
Speaker 2: The Azds or a group of people and their religious
Speaker 2: group whose religion is probably closest to Zoroastrianism. They have
Speaker 2: like a peacock angel. The Islamic state targeted the Azds
Speaker 2: because it considered them to be apostates, and it subjected
Speaker 2: them to genocidal violence. Right, this is the Uzdi genocide.
Speaker 2: The states of the world largely abandoned the Azdi people.
Speaker 2: They tried to defend their communities, but they were overwhelmed
Speaker 2: by the Islamic State and they gradually fell back to Shengol,
Speaker 2: which is their mountain, and they went to the top
Speaker 2: of their mountain to make their last stand. I guess right,
Speaker 2: that was their place where they had always gone back to.
Speaker 2: And there were some US special forces on the mountain,
Speaker 2: and from what I understand also some British special forces.
Speaker 2: But it was the friends from Kurdistan who decided to go.
Speaker 2: It should be noted that they're like fighting the Islamic
Speaker 2: state at home at this time, right their own villages,
Speaker 2: their own towns, are being subjected to the same violence.
Speaker 2: They went onto the mountain and they built humanitarian corridor
Speaker 2: to extract the Azdi people right with their bodies, with
Speaker 2: their blood, And if they had done nothing else since
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, that would be reason enough for us to
Speaker 2: stand in solidarity with them. Right like in that moment
Speaker 2: when the world letting the Azdis die, right when Obama
Speaker 2: and the United Kingdom and everything else was letting these
Speaker 2: people be subjected to genocide. It wasn't a military superpower
Speaker 2: who went to their assistance. Who wasn't the French or
Speaker 2: the British or anyone else who was willing to risk Again,
Speaker 2: there were small numbers of special forces, but it was
Speaker 2: regular folks from Curtis down with kalashnikovs who went to
Speaker 2: save them. And I think at this time when Western analysts,
Speaker 2: who perhaps either don't have a proper grasp of what's
Speaker 2: happening in Syria or do and are just willing to
Speaker 2: lie about it, are condemning the a and Ees as
Speaker 2: some kind of kurdisheth and a nationalist project. We can
Speaker 2: point to this and we shouldn't forget the sacrifice that
Speaker 2: those people made at that time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an important event that I didn't come across
Speaker 1: my research, but thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1: So I suppose we are now approaching the critical moment
Speaker 1: in Rajawa's recent history. Asad's government collapsed at the end
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four and the Hayat terrier al Sham
Speaker 1: or HDS and Islamist militia with roots in al Qaeda,
Speaker 1: stepped into the vacuum and rapidly took control of large
Speaker 1: parts of the country. Then HDS leader Ahmed al Shara
Speaker 1: was recast on the international stage as Syria's new president,
Speaker 1: welcomed by regional and western powers, received and diplomatic capitals,
Speaker 1: and rewarded with the lifting of many sanctions. TAKEI emerged
Speaker 1: as his strongest backer, as they were pretty cooled with
Speaker 1: a Sad and the aggressively lobbied on behalf of the
Speaker 1: HGS government, reframing it as a stabilizing partner, and not
Speaker 1: long after the fall of a Sadd, in fact, after
Speaker 1: the Uchland himself called for the PKK to this arm
Speaker 1: The SDF, which is only loosely affiliated with the PKK,
Speaker 1: though said well you know not us, we will continue
Speaker 1: to find. So Western governments, particularly the United States and
Speaker 1: its allies, appeared willing to accept this transformation of the SGS.
Speaker 1: The calculators that are fragmented and internally weak authority could
Speaker 1: be more easily stared to serve their long term geopolitical interests.
Speaker 1: So the HDS and government had a little press tour,
Speaker 1: but within Syria they moved pretty predictably, engaging in violent
Speaker 1: for pressure and displacement and massacre of the Alawhite, the
Speaker 1: Druze and the Kiddish communities in Syria, and for the
Speaker 1: Kurdish initiated the project of Rajava. The rise of the
Speaker 1: HDS government would mark the beginning of an end greater
Speaker 1: isolation and a you'd pressure from within and outside of
Speaker 1: Syrious borders. After consolidating power, the HTS government pushed into
Speaker 1: the Kurdish regions and encircled Kobani, the historic border city
Speaker 1: that once symbolized resistance to ISIS. So for days, coordinated
Speaker 1: attacks targeted Rajaba itself, threatening not only the survival of
Speaker 1: Kurdish olv government, but the lives of hundreds of thousands
Speaker 1: of civilians as food, water and electricity would deliberately cut
Speaker 1: off and the city placed under siege. The violence had
Speaker 1: been especially devastating in Aleppo. From early January, the Kurdish
Speaker 1: districts of shikh Maksud and Ashrafia became the focus of
Speaker 1: sustained assaults by Turkish backed militias and units aligned with
Speaker 1: the Syrian Transitional Government.
Speaker 2: They would tell you that shik Maksud was a diverse
Speaker 2: district and I'd probably used to describe it as Kurdish
Speaker 2: as well, but there they will point out that is
Speaker 2: CD people and a lot of the indigenous Christian peoples
Speaker 2: of the region who lived in a Leppo tended to
Speaker 2: live in shik MAXs food as.
Speaker 1: Well, right, right, Okay, thanks for that context. Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1: So civilian infrastructure was systematically hit, at homes, schools, mosques
Speaker 1: and public buildings being shelled, while abductions, torture and executions
Speaker 1: reported near medical facilities. The bombing of Zalid Fekir Hospital
Speaker 1: devastated the local health care system and with mountain casualties
Speaker 1: and entire neighborhoods emptied. Local councils in the SDF agreed
Speaker 1: to a cease fire and withdrawal on the eleventh of
Speaker 1: January twenty twenty six to allow evacuations. More than three
Speaker 1: hundred thousand people fled, many seeking refuge in areas still
Speaker 1: controlled by the Autonomous Administration, but fighting expanded eastward. Jihada's
Speaker 1: forces began targeting Raka, the ares Azol Hassaka, and critical
Speaker 1: infrastructure like the Tissrian Dam. Prisons holding thousands of Jihada's
Speaker 1: detanees were located in these areas, and amid the chaos,
Speaker 1: Islamist fighters escaped. ISIS symbols reappaired, and memorials to Kurdish
Speaker 1: fighters were destroyed.
Speaker 2: There's one example which I think is particularly revelatory. It
Speaker 2: was consistently cast once again by like think tankers who
Speaker 2: either know that they're talking speaking things that aren't true.
Speaker 2: I was going to say something else there, or they
Speaker 2: just don't know and they're being paid to pretend they know.
Speaker 2: But though the one in Tubka that was destroyed, it
Speaker 2: was a statue of a YPG fighter, but she was
Speaker 2: an Arab. It was portrayed as like local people celebrating
Speaker 2: their liberation from the SDF, but it was a whole
Speaker 2: group of men destroying a statue of a woman, a
Speaker 2: woman from that community who had fought to liberate that
Speaker 2: community from the Islamic state, right, And I think that like,
Speaker 2: when that context is deliberately excluded, that tells us an
Speaker 2: awful lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's an extremely critical point, I think. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: As the Syrian forces pushed further east, some non Kurdish
Speaker 1: villages in the region affected from Rajava to New Syria
Speaker 1: and government.
Speaker 2: Yeah, mostly in Ligderis or, right, which is an area
Speaker 2: where you have this longstanding. They're referred to as tribal
Speaker 2: communities like that. I guess that's a fine phrase, but
Speaker 2: sometimes the word tribal, I think is used in a
Speaker 2: derogatory way in the West. So I want to be
Speaker 2: clear that's not what I tend to mean here, just
Speaker 2: that they have a different form of political organizing, right
Speaker 2: of course, And like there had not been among those
Speaker 2: communities buy in, I guess to the AA and S project.
Speaker 2: There was to the SDF as a military force, but
Speaker 2: not not so much to the project. And it was
Speaker 2: those communities that switch their allegiances.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: This happened even in Aleppo, and then we can look
Speaker 2: at various economic and political and social reasons for that,
Speaker 2: and maybe at some point we should, but I don't
Speaker 2: think like now it's the time, that's you know, we're
Speaker 2: concerned with ongoing struggle there. But yeah, especially in derris Or,
Speaker 2: what really saw of the SDF frontline crumble was the
Speaker 2: people who were in the SDF suddenly became allied with
Speaker 2: the STDT, Sian Transitional Government, Syrian government right.
Speaker 1: Right, and so these defections and with this onslaught of violence,
Speaker 1: delivered an ultimatum to the goods and to the other
Speaker 1: groups involved in the automous administration South Easyria was the
Speaker 1: dissolve the SDF and submit to incorporation under his command
Speaker 1: office and iriation. So in response, the SDF commander mass
Speaker 1: loom Abdi appealed outwill, calling on the support of anyone
Speaker 1: who an't be willing to assist. And this is something
Speaker 1: that particularly made headlines, anyone included Israel, which had previously
Speaker 1: intervened in Syria for the claim justification of aiding the
Speaker 1: Jurwis community. I think the way that question was paused
Speaker 1: to the SDF commander was definitely leading, like they were
Speaker 1: fishing for headline for sure from what I saw of
Speaker 1: that exchange, But in the context of the Palestinian genocide
Speaker 1: and the worlds awareness of their genocide, I think that
Speaker 1: even with that desperation for survival in mind, that statement
Speaker 1: was I think a misstep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we constantly see like this allegation that the SDS
Speaker 2: specifically is like some kind of Zionists force or funded
Speaker 2: by Israel. That's been around for decades. Right, I will
Speaker 2: say a couple of things. First of all, in the
Speaker 2: early Kurdish freedom movement, you know, Kurds died for Palestine
Speaker 2: right with the Democratic Friends for Liberation of Palestine at
Speaker 2: Bofort Castle. If the Israelis were genuinely allies of the Kurds,
Speaker 2: no one would dare touch them. We have seen what
Speaker 2: Israel is prepared to do to Muslim countries. They don't
Speaker 2: need much excuse. They would do the same in Syria. Furthermore,
Speaker 2: Israel has continued to invade Syria and has held Syrian
Speaker 2: territory for decades and has continued to take more of
Speaker 2: it under Olshara, and al Shara has not done anything
Speaker 2: about it. So I find the idea that he's like
Speaker 2: eliminating zion is going to be very frustrating when the
Speaker 2: IDAFA statory inside his country invading it, and the Kurdish
Speaker 2: Freedom Movement as a whole has been pretty forthright about
Speaker 2: the genocide. So on October seventh, twenty twenty three, I
Speaker 2: was in Kurdistan and we watched what happened first in
Speaker 2: Israel and then in Palestine Ray and they were pretty
Speaker 2: forthright about that no one should be killing civilians. And
Speaker 2: as the genocide in Gaza began, they were forthright about
Speaker 2: calling it a genocide. And I think they didn't have to.
Speaker 2: No one was particularly asking them in twenty twenty three, right,
Speaker 2: and they did, and they made statements about it. And like,
Speaker 2: I think seeing them as somehow ideologically inclined towards Israel
Speaker 2: when the it largely was in Israel who was fighting
Speaker 2: the Islamic state, right, it was largely them in the US.
Speaker 2: But I think it's just people understanding the politics of
Speaker 2: the Middle East in terms of Marvel movies that they
Speaker 2: can only be two sides. And like, I'm sure at
Speaker 2: the time when they were facing genocide themselves, they would
Speaker 2: have welcomed any support, but that doesn't mean that they
Speaker 2: support the murder of civilians in Gaza. They have been
Speaker 2: extremely clear about that for an extremely long time.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I don't think I should be called into the
Speaker 1: question just because of the statement of one commando. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: after much fighting, the SDF signed akreebnce relinquish and control
Speaker 1: of Arraka, dares Azor and remain in territory west of
Speaker 1: the Euphrates written and only Hassaka and Kobani after withdrawing
Speaker 1: from the Tishrin. But even after conceder in so much,
Speaker 1: government forces violated ceasefire terms, so the SDF declared general
Speaker 1: mobilization across the Kurdish regions of Syria and neighboring states
Speaker 1: as a last desperate attempt to rally resistance. By the
Speaker 1: end of January, the Autonomous Administration had lost roughly eighty
Speaker 1: percent of the territory it once governed. The SDF was
Speaker 1: forced to retreat almost entirely into Hassaka Governorate, and on
Speaker 1: the thirtieth of January, the SDF formally announced a cease
Speaker 1: fire with the Syrian government and accepted a framework for
Speaker 1: folding both their military structures and civilian administration into the
Speaker 1: Syrian state. Syrian authorities set timelines on this agreement within
Speaker 1: a month They would retake control of water crossings, oil
Speaker 1: and gas infrastructure like Crimelane, and also Wadi detention camps
Speaker 1: holding ISIS members and their families, and strategic sites such
Speaker 1: as Kamishli International Airport. Interior Ministry units were scheduled to
Speaker 1: deploy to Hassaka and Commissili almost immediately, and Syrian security
Speaker 1: forces will oversee the absorption of the Kurdish internal security
Speaker 1: apparatus the SAISH, into the state's police and structures. Militarily,
Speaker 1: the SDF estates be absorbed under the Syrian Ministry of Defense,
Speaker 1: but on an individual vetted basis. Up to now, the
Speaker 1: fate of the female fighters and non Syrian fighters within
Speaker 1: the SDF is unknown, and on the civilian side of things,
Speaker 1: the institutions created by the Rajarfa administration are to be
Speaker 1: absorbed as well. Kurdish officials have thus far secured the
Speaker 1: governorship of Hasaka and limited commander rules within the military.
Speaker 1: In exchange for their surrender, the Kurs gained some recognitions
Speaker 1: on people, The government claims to a firm national civil
Speaker 1: and educational rights, promised the return of displaced populations, and
Speaker 1: issued decrees recognizing Kurdish as a national language. Taught in schools,
Speaker 1: declared the Kurdish celebration of Nauru's public body, and reversed
Speaker 1: decades all citizenship policies that shripped tens of thousands of
Speaker 1: goods of their citizenship. Thus far, most of these promises
Speaker 1: are on people.
Speaker 2: As I said, Yeah, I think they'd see it as
Speaker 2: like a rebranding, not a surrender, as an agreement. Like
Speaker 2: from what I understand, the epigates still see themselves as
Speaker 2: the WIPEPG, still see themselves as the WIPPG, the WYPG
Speaker 2: very much still see themselves as the Women's Defense Force,
Speaker 2: and so like as you say, like, all of this
Speaker 2: is a paper agreement currently and we will see how
Speaker 2: I mean, there are now Syrian Ministry of Interior forces
Speaker 2: in Hesseka and in Comichhlo, but like some of that
Speaker 2: has come to bus. But what this means. Talking to
Speaker 2: my friends, they're like, we will continue to see exactly,
Speaker 2: like what the extent they still have autonomy and to
Speaker 2: what extent they are integrated into a state which has
Speaker 2: in some instances banned women from wearing makeup for instance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So the US and franz CO signed disagreement
Speaker 1: and pledged oversea its implementation, and the president of the
Speaker 1: Kurdistan Regional Government in Iraq has also welcome disagreement, but
Speaker 1: it still remains to be seen what happens next.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did see a hundred people who are non
Speaker 2: Syrian Kurds. I would imagine they would mostly be Turkish
Speaker 2: from northern Kurdistan had withdrawn from Syria and gaunt Candial,
Speaker 2: which is kind of the stronghold of the various other
Speaker 2: parts of the Kurdish freedom movement, and so that that's
Speaker 2: in southern Kurdistan or Iraq, it's near the border with Iran.
Speaker 2: But I saw that a number of them had withdrawn
Speaker 2: post disagreement. That was probably on the tenth of February
Speaker 2: somewhere around there.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, sadly, this is an outcome of the imperialist
Speaker 1: world order that empires and regional actors will crush any
Speaker 1: threats to their power, will attempt to crush such debts.
Speaker 1: And as long as such power remains concentrated in these
Speaker 1: states and militaries and ruling classes, whether they are secular
Speaker 1: or nationalists, or Islamist or anything else, none of us
Speaker 1: then be free. Yeah, we could sit around on our
Speaker 1: armchairs and speculate, but what Moves or Java could have
Speaker 1: done differently, whether it be failure to advance further, whether
Speaker 1: it be insufficient integration of and then buying of other
Speaker 1: groups into the project, whether it be the alliances or
Speaker 1: agreements or affiliations that they engage in. We can also
Speaker 1: sit around with litter all the limitations they face, some
Speaker 1: of they managed to overcome, and there's not so much.
Speaker 1: But the blame does not lie in their failures to
Speaker 1: play this game of geopolitical chess as ruthlessly as other
Speaker 1: powers in the region. I think the blame lies in
Speaker 1: this game of geopolitical chess, in this ability of imperial
Speaker 1: powers to treat the people of the region as a
Speaker 1: whole as tools to be you used and discarded. And
Speaker 1: the end. I continue to hold to the position that
Speaker 1: only a shared uprising from below, one that refuses compromise,
Speaker 1: one that cuts across nationalist lines, has the potential to
Speaker 1: create a new world, and that fight must happen both
Speaker 1: within Syria and beyond around the entire earth. The fight
Speaker 1: is not over in Rajava. I find it hard to
Speaker 1: believe that a people engaged in such a project would
Speaker 1: let go of that instinct and that drive toward greater
Speaker 1: and greater freedom. It remains we seeing what happens with them,
Speaker 1: but also remains we seeing what happens with us, what
Speaker 1: we decide to do to push our what's want to
Speaker 1: be forward. And that's all from me for today or
Speaker 1: power to all the people. Peace.
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