WEBVTT - Rojava with Andrew 0:00:02.120 --> 0:00:10.720 The media, Woman life Freedom. Such was the slogan of 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.720 the women's movement considered key to the project of the 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:19.280 Democratic Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, also known 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:24.880 as Rajava. Though originating in the Kurdish liberation struggle, the 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:31.480 project quickly became polyethnic. There are Syrians, Arabs, Armenians, Czds, 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.240 and other groups involved in that project, and in fact, 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.040 the internationally recognized name Rajava has fallen out of use 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.720 by the project's administration in an effort to de ethnicize 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:45.240 the project. I'm going to keep using Rajava simply because 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:50.320 it's quicker to say than DAA n ees, or than 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:55.680 yes or any other combination, but just wanted to put 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.960 that disclaimer out in the beginning. So in the midst 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.680 the Syrian Civil War, the region gained its de facto 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.959 autonomy in twenty twelve and pursued a somewhat unique political 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.679 experiment for crassroots governance and social legal reforms that have 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:16.160 attracted significant international fever and support. Do not recognize internationally 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:21.280 as autonomous, except by the Catalan Parliament for obvious reasons. 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.559 For the past decade plus, the people in the region 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:29.160 have fought fastly for independence from Isis patriarchy, Turkish incursions, 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.840 and other Syrian opposition groups, but recent events led to 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:37.800 the newly minted Assyrian government having seriously jeopardized the autonomy 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:42.600 of the project. Welcome, take it happen here. I'm Andrew Sage, 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:47.440 also Androism on YouTube, and I'm joined once again. It's me, 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:49.920 It's James, Yes, and I had to talk to you 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.880 about this because I know that you have contacts there, 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.920 you have experience with that project, with the people involved, 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.040 And yeah, we're here to discuss the fate of Rajavo. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.280 I'm always excited to talk about Rajava, and I think 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:06.320 it's super important that we talk about it right now. Like, yeah, 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.680 there's a lot of bad stuff happening currently, but this 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:13.520 is really bad. Like in Rejava, we had the opportunity 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:19.240 to see people living without gods or masters, people building 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.320 democracy without the state. We had the opportunity to and 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.920 we have the opportunity right So Rashava is not gone. 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.680 But like anarchism didn't have to be like an ideological 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.959 construct that only exists in our little punk hows it's 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:35.560 it existed in it in an area where millions. 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:36.239 Of people lived. 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:39.000 And yet so we should talk about how we can 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.239 be in solidarity with them in this very difficult time 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:42.239 right right. 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.120 In fact, as we're on that topic, I think it's 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.480 useful to have a brief explanation of the history and 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.000 ideology behind the Java project before we talk about what's 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:57.240 happened most recently. Yeah, So, in brief, the project really 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:03.560 began into a Kyo Kurdistan Worker's Party or PKK, was 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.600 banned and some of its supporters moved to Syria and 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.440 founded the Democratic Union Party or PYD. Now this party 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.680 shared an ideological foundation with the PKK and its founder, 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:18.280 Abdullah Chilan, with the ideology of democratic confederalism which Alex 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.320 s Bain in a sacred Rajava came into be in 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.359 following the Arab Spring of twenty eleven, as various factions 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.600 of Syrians rose up against President Bashar al Assad, and 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.160 in such a climate of conflict, ISIS rose to prominence 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.920 to threaten the region as whole. So while Asad was 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.040 dealing with other opposition groups in Damascus, he withdrew forces 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.280 from North Syria, which left the region vulnerable to ISIS 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.320 and to key Kurdish groups in North Syria then formed 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.160 the Kurdish National Council to secure the area, but after 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.480 an ideological split, the project of Rajava would emerge as 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:54.600 a polyethnic polity composed of the cantons of Afrin, Jazira, 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:58.960 and Kubani. The PID operates Java within a political coalition 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.400 called the Syrian Democratic Council or SDC. The YPG or 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.000 People's Defense Units and the YPG or Women's Defense Units 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.480 are the paramilitaries forming the bulk of the political assemblies 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:14.360 and military coalership, which is called the Syrian Democratic Forces 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.960 or SDF. I know, it's a lot of acronyms being 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:18.880 thrown at you at once. 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.000 Yeah, it's an alphabet too. I think until relatively recently, 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.240 the bulk of the sdf's forces were Arab. You have 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.479 ideological groups that are allied, right, the Northern Democratic Front 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.000 a ji shell for war at one point, and then 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:36.080 you have these groups which are more tribally based, and 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:38.520 those groups had allied to the SDF to fight the 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.880 Islamic State, right, Yes, yeah, they always want to push 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.800 back on it being a majority that it's now, but 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.760 that's that's that's the creation of the last eight weeks. 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:52.839 Right, Okay, I remember reading that they were the YPGYPG 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.720 were forming a good chunk of the SDF. I suppose 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.880 that was more recent information that I had seen. 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:01.479 Then, Yeah, I think it would have been or like 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:05.680 you will see that published in broadsheet newspapers and have 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:06.840 done for decades. 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:08.000 Like it just wrong. 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.520 But there was this tendency in the I guess the 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:15.600 Western press, right, And some of this is somewhat orientalist 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.160 in a way, Like they referred to the SDF as 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.960 the Kurds because Kurds were somehow seen as closer to 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:25.280 European people than Arabs, and like it attempted to sort 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:29.400 of I guess, to make it more palatable to an audience. 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.680 Right, a kind of a racial ekin. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.160 Yeah, and I think the friends, we can talk about 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.440 friends versus whatever else. Slater but would push back on that. 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.320 They would tell you that SDF was majority Arabs certainly 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.080 at the time it forought the Islamic state, and of 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:49.520 course there were Assyrians and Armenians and your CDs and 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:51.360 international volunteers as well. 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:55.440 For sure, for sure. So you had these cirind Democratic 0:05:55.480 --> 0:06:00.880 Consuls or the SDC, led primarily by THEPID right. They 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:02.680 were taken on the task of both fights in the 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:07.320 Islamists while engaged in an ideological project to bring democratic 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:12.599 confederalism into practice in North Syria. So democratic confederalism is 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:16.760 a transitional political movement that tries to move beyond the 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:21.680 nation state by refusing to seize state power. Instead of 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:26.839 organizing society through the state, they seek to organize society 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:31.120 through local assemblies that manage their own affairs while coordinating 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:37.160 action through confederation. Democratic and federalism emphasizes pluralism over nationalism, 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:44.719 secularism over religious government, and restorative justice, gender liberation, ecological sustainability, 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:50.320 cooperative and communal economic forms. Democratic and feralism was seen 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:54.799 as seen as a pragmatic way of building collective self 0:06:54.880 --> 0:07:01.320 organization within the purview of the existing dominant state model 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:05.800 of the world, while gradually undermining its authority. Now, the 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:08.839 gender liberation component in particular has received a lot of 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.800 international attention thanks to the pid's efforts to put it 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:16.560 into practice. They established gender parity quotas in all administrative, 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:20.080 political and decision making bodies and leadership roles. They established 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:24.160 women's councils address women's issues. They established the Women's Protection 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.520 Units or YPG, which is an all female army which 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.760 is very popular and they established laws to ban honor 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:35.520 killings and child marriage, while strengthening the divorce rights of women. 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:39.880 So these efforts and others within Rajava have guardered worldwide 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:44.160 admiration for the project, and many international volunteers have visited 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.480 Rajava to help them fight. And if you're in a 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:48.960 lot of online anarchist circles, you've probably heard a lot 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:53.400 about Rajava and solidarity with deliberation. But I think it 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.320 has created a misconception that the solidarity that anarchists feel 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:03.840 with for Java is equivalent to one to one ideological alignment. Yeah. Right, 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:07.520 what they're doing is not anarchism, it's kind of its 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.400 own thing. It's Democrats Confederate the film. Yeah, and this 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.280 has been a band that in solid to the people, 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:14.720 of course, but it just means, you know, being clear 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.240 that we are fighting for a will in which many 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.640 rules exist. Yeah, and so are they, and we are 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:25.320 just willing to stand with and observe that project and 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:27.760 you know, wish for the best and hope for the 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:29.280 best and see what comes of it. 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.640 Yeah, there are anarchist formations within the SDF right Techosy analyses. 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.880 It means anarchists struggle. It's it's like a more doctrinally 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:41.240 anarchist formation. And like the way that they would phrase 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.359 their like participation is that they are there in solidarity, 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:47.920 right and like you say, we want a world where 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.040 many worlds can exist, and so they can offer and 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.680 they if you go to Rija, people will ask you 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.920 to offer feedback right at the Curtish words technical report 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:03.840 of feedback. They are willing to hear an anarchist critique 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:07.400 and engage with it. That doesn't mean that they are anarchists, 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.400 but it doesn't mean that they are opposed to anarchists either. 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.640 They're more willing to engage with anarchism than most. 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.160 Yeah, then almost anywhere else I have been in the world, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:22.640 maybe aside from Myanmar, but yeah, they will engage with 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:26.560 and have these discussions. And they're on an ideological journey, right. 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:31.000 The movement began within what they would call the nation 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:32.280 state paradigm. 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.040 Yeah, I mean the PKK was originally Marxist. 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:39.560 Lend and oger land thinking has very much been like 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.800 his journey has led the movement on a political philosophy journey, 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.520 I guess. And there are different interpretations of different movements 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.599 in different parts of Kurdistan that draw on his political philosophy, 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.520 but as his thinking while he was detained in Turkey 0:09:54.600 --> 0:10:00.360 moved towards this democratic confederalist outlook, influenced about reading Married 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:04.080 Book Chain, among others, the movement also moved, and I 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:08.400 think it was very well placed when the statist state 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:13.240 withdrew to try and implement this like like you've mentioned 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.480 right self government, the brotherhood of people's all these things, 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:20.800 but it wasn't always there, and it has been willing 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.360 to change and willing to move it to ideology over time. 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.520 Yeah, yeah, I mean that's the thing. We want to 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:31.000 look at people and projects and judge based on where 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:35.880 we are in our position and our ideological alignment. Because 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.680 none of us necessarily started off as anarchists, right and 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.800 while we may wish that as an anarchist, I would 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.440 wish that, you know, these projects would move closer to 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:50.959 anarchy and would pursue and explore an experiment with that ideal, 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:55.720 and that idea. Everybody's on their own journey, and you know, 0:10:55.840 --> 0:11:01.559 at this stage in capitalist global domina and status global dominance, 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.480 we have to let whatever experiments exist or explore the 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:08.720 different angles. You know, there's not one right way quite 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.040 yet or they may never be you know. As one 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.520 on the topic of disclaimers, I suppose I think it 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.199 is important to address that, you know, the SDF is 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.520 not all sunshine and ruses. You know, there have been 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:25.920 allegations of war crimes, including the recruitment of children, and 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.440 the allegations are forced to target a displacement. Now, not 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.160 all of these allegations have been conclusively verified, and there 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:36.360 are a lot of actors have been involved in Syria 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.760 over the years that are pushed in narratives and commuted 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.080 narratives that have to be scrutinized on a case by 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.120 case basis. Some of the war crime allegations, for example, 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.439 have been made by Turkey, which is pretty suspect considering 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:52.959 their track record of both hostility towards Rajava and the 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:57.440 Kiddish Autonomy, and also their practice of war crimes on 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:01.480 a semi regular basis themselves. You know. Yeah, but still 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:03.800 hypocrisy has said, I think it is important to not 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.560 turn a blind eye to these kinds of problems and 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:08.560 allegations when they are made. 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.720 Yeah, I totally agreed, Like, if people are being compelled 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:13.920 to do things through violence, that is what the state 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.200 is right and that is what we want to stop. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.040 And so if that is happening, then we should condemn it, right, 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.439 be that where they're being compelled to fight or compelled 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.800 to leave their homes, like that is a thing that 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.440 we are opposed to inherently, right, and it doesn't matter 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.160 who's doing it is the action itself is something that 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.800 we are opposed to. And yeah, we should again, like 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.320 we should look at this like not through like rose To. 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.040 I know talk a lot about this, but I translated 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:44.800 a piece from French a couple of years ago from 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.440 an anarchist who had fought in Spain, and it's called 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.560 Refuting the Legend, and the main thesis of the piece 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.000 was that we should engage with the Spanish civil wars. 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.400 It was not as we wished it to be, Yeah, 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.840 and that way we could learn from it and get 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.120 better as opposed to just create in a hagiography and 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:05.480 like a you know, like saints' lives exactly the same 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:06.559 applies here, I. 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.440 Think, yeah, because the ferments have been you know, few 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.120 and far between. Unfortunately the major experiments, that is, the 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.839 massive ones, the ones that make historical headlines. And I 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.400 think there is a temptation to as you say in 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:23.559 constructor a hagiography to glorify and venerate these these attempts, 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:25.800 I think it's very important for us we to treat them. 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.960 It's scrutiny, you know, to hould them up to certain standards, 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.520 and to evaluate their missteps and to highlight their missteps 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.240 even more than we highlight this successes, because I see 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.439 only way we're going to succeed in the future. So 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.280 if we're willing to address and engage with those mystiques. 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.400 Yeah, absolutely, I think on that point, the way that 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.480 I see what's happening Jabre is not in a monolithic way. 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:54.319 Their tendencies and organizations within the revolution, right, there are 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:58.880 some who are probably operating in a paradigm that is 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.920 not that far from the like ethno nationalist or kind 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:07.800 of nationalist Marxist paradigm. There are some that are operating 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:12.720 closer to an anarchist paradigm. There are some who are 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.600 somewhere in between those two things, right, And there are 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:19.240 some who would just want the Islamic state or the 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.200 New Syrian State or the Assadis state to go away 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.120 and leave them alone. And that's why they picked up arms, 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:28.240 and that's what they're fighting for and like, yeah, again, right, 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.040 we shouldn't we should be suspicious of a movement which 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:35.080 is entirely homogeneous. We should be concerned, but I have 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.480 concerns about the way some dissenting voices have been treated 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.200 in the A and E s in the past year. 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.040 We should raise those concerns. But like, it would be 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.480 inaccurate to view this movement as a monolith. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.960 Yeah, yeah, And that's the thing it's important to is concerned. 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.960 It's it's sad that this phrase has been masterdized because 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:59.880 it's a useful freeze, right, that is, you know, critical support, yeah, 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:06.960 or critical solidarity. It's been taken by certain Internet actors too, 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:14.320 you know, to propagate apology for atrocities and the raisure 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:20.920 of state violence. But it is a useful way of 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.880 I think freemen. The way we should engage these projects. 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.000 That solidarity doesn't imply that you keep them out shut, 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:33.080 that you don't seek to learn, that you don't respectfully criticize. 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.880 That is, I think the best way to engage these 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.840 projects not to you know, close their eyes and just 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:54.520 follow absolutely. Getting back to I suppose what's been happening 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:58.280 more recently, things have not been easy for the movement 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.840 really since the beginning into A twelve, it has for 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.040 a long time been caught in a web of conflicting 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:07.400 and conversion interests. In addition to fightin Issis and other 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.560 Jiadist groups, Rajava managed to receive back in from the 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:14.400 US out of a coincidence of interests and tactical necessity, 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.600 as I would put it, which is confused in some 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.840 circles of the idea that Rajava is a US designed 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.760 puppet through and through right. So after the SDF liberated Raka, 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.200 they began taking more heat from Turkey, which saw the 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.840 YPG as inseparable from the PKK and thus a threat 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.240 under the YPG is the defensive army the protective services 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:42.520 rather and the PKK is the Kurdish party in Turkey, 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.240 so they launched several military operations to prevent the Kurdish 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:50.479 regions from linking up and having territorial continuity within Syria. 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.920 At the same time, Rojava faced economic blockades, restricted movement, 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.400 and strained relations with their fellow Kurdish political groups in 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:01.120 Iraq that were aligned with two and aligned with the 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:05.520 Pyid's political rivals, which had lost influence since the establishment 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.359 of Rajava. Then you also had the occasional alignments with 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.480 Russia as a strategic leverage against Tiki, and similar coincidences 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.520 of interest with the governments of Iraq and Iran, and 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.959 even cooperation between Rojava and a SAD government. It's interesting 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:21.840 to me that the US alignment is what receives the 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.680 most attention when it seems to me the Rajava had 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:29.320 quite a roster of affiliations of convenience. Not to say 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.639 that those partnerships or affiliations necessarily benefit them in the 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:38.879 long run, but it's important to place those affiliations in context. 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.920 Rajava has been seen and treated as a chess piece 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:47.680 essentially by both global and regional powers as they attempt 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.439 to put out a voice of their own and equaled 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:55.400 their own autonomy. So, just before the twenty nineteen took 0:17:55.480 --> 0:18:00.840 his invasion, the US abandoned Rajava entirely, withdrawing it troops 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.840 and suddenly leading into the tragic fall of several settlements 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.800 to Turkey and Tiggish aligned groups. Whether that moved with 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:14.200 a draw orlso raised the international profile of the Java struggle, 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.639 as people on both sides the book spectrum were pointing 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:23.200 out this American decision to abandon its allies in the 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.480 Middle East. So, before we get to the fall of 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.720 us AD, is there anything critical did you say I missed? 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:32.400 I do a pretty good smorary. I've written, literally writen 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.640 a book about this, so I like, there's always things 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.960 I want to say. I was during a time when 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.879 Turkey was bombing, right, in addition to going to report 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.600 on them, I just saw places as I was going 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:45.520 about my day to day life that had been bombed 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:46.119 the night before. 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:46.400 Right. 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:51.560 I think there's this misapprehension that America is by America. 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.600 I'm a musing it correctly. The United States is allied 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:59.840 with the PYD. That's not the case. The SDF was 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:04.920 the US partner force, specifically in what's called Operation Inherent Resolve, 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:08.520 which is the operation against the Islamic State. Right while 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:10.600 I was there, the US shot down a Turkish drone 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.119 because it flew too close to their bases. They also 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.840 didn't shoot down the dozens of other Turkish drones that 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.439 killed little children while I was there, right, And I 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:25.080 don't think anyone would reasonably expect them to because US 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:29.560 was not there in solidarity with the revolution. It was 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:33.719 there fighting alongside them in this one specific thing. And 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.520 while that doesn't take away the fact that it is 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:43.240 disgraceful to abandon these people who gave ten thousand plus 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:48.240 of their children alongside the United States, right, that is shameful. 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.679 It is also what we should expect from the United 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:55.919 States people that use the word haval, which means friend, 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.480 as opposed to like the way a Marxist movement might 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:04.200 use comra. The friends there understood the terms of their 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.879 agreement with the US, doesn't mean that they were not disappointed. 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:09.680 Doesn't mean that they would not ask for assistance when 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.720 their children are dying. Of course it would, but those 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.560 that are terms on which the US was allied with them, 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:22.080 and certainly the US did not ideologically influence them. Perhaps 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:23.960 the opposite is the case. There are certainly some people 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.760 in the US military who went over there and came 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:30.760 back seeing the world differently. Turkey actually called the US 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.280 government because some of the US soldiers who were wearing 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:37.480 abdulahill on patches at one point and raised complaints about it. 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.200 But yeah, I think it's important to understand the terms 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:42.760 of the arrangement between them. Otherwise I think that's a 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:47.199 pretty good praisie of the way things were. Do you 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:48.320 have anything about Shengal? 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:49.160 No, I don't. 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.520 I'll do my potted. People can read my book if 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:53.480 they'd like to hear more about its operation. I've sent 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.320 one to you Andrew. Hopefully it's making its way across 0:20:56.359 --> 0:21:01.560 the ocean. What so Shengal the sacred mountain of the Ads. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.600 The Azds or a group of people and their religious 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:08.280 group whose religion is probably closest to Zoroastrianism. They have 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:12.280 like a peacock angel. The Islamic state targeted the Azds 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.280 because it considered them to be apostates, and it subjected 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.639 them to genocidal violence. Right, this is the Uzdi genocide. 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:24.359 The states of the world largely abandoned the Azdi people. 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:28.080 They tried to defend their communities, but they were overwhelmed 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:30.640 by the Islamic State and they gradually fell back to Shengol, 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:32.760 which is their mountain, and they went to the top 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.080 of their mountain to make their last stand. I guess right, 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.919 that was their place where they had always gone back to. 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:43.240 And there were some US special forces on the mountain, 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.040 and from what I understand also some British special forces. 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:51.680 But it was the friends from Kurdistan who decided to go. 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:54.200 It should be noted that they're like fighting the Islamic 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.200 state at home at this time, right their own villages, 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.960 their own towns, are being subjected to the same violence. 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:04.280 They went onto the mountain and they built humanitarian corridor 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:07.960 to extract the Azdi people right with their bodies, with 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:14.040 their blood, And if they had done nothing else since 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.480 twenty twelve, that would be reason enough for us to 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.080 stand in solidarity with them. Right like in that moment 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:22.760 when the world letting the Azdis die, right when Obama 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:25.400 and the United Kingdom and everything else was letting these 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:29.440 people be subjected to genocide. It wasn't a military superpower 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:33.800 who went to their assistance. Who wasn't the French or 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:37.760 the British or anyone else who was willing to risk Again, 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.040 there were small numbers of special forces, but it was 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:43.680 regular folks from Curtis down with kalashnikovs who went to 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:48.440 save them. And I think at this time when Western analysts, 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:50.720 who perhaps either don't have a proper grasp of what's 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:52.560 happening in Syria or do and are just willing to 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:56.120 lie about it, are condemning the a and Ees as 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:59.120 some kind of kurdisheth and a nationalist project. We can 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:03.040 point to this and we shouldn't forget the sacrifice that 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:05.160 those people made at that time. 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:09.280 Yeah, that's an important event that I didn't come across 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:11.520 my research, but thank you for sharing. 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:12.560 Yeah, of course. 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:19.120 So I suppose we are now approaching the critical moment 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:24.320 in Rajawa's recent history. Asad's government collapsed at the end 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:28.480 of twenty twenty four and the Hayat terrier al Sham 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:32.840 or HDS and Islamist militia with roots in al Qaeda, 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.760 stepped into the vacuum and rapidly took control of large 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:40.800 parts of the country. Then HDS leader Ahmed al Shara 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:45.120 was recast on the international stage as Syria's new president, 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:50.080 welcomed by regional and western powers, received and diplomatic capitals, 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:54.880 and rewarded with the lifting of many sanctions. TAKEI emerged 0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:58.119 as his strongest backer, as they were pretty cooled with 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:01.320 a Sad and the aggressively lobbied on behalf of the 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:06.080 HGS government, reframing it as a stabilizing partner, and not 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:08.359 long after the fall of a Sadd, in fact, after 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:12.080 the Uchland himself called for the PKK to this arm 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:15.400 The SDF, which is only loosely affiliated with the PKK, 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:18.480 though said well you know not us, we will continue 0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:23.040 to find. So Western governments, particularly the United States and 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:27.000 its allies, appeared willing to accept this transformation of the SGS. 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:31.480 The calculators that are fragmented and internally weak authority could 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:36.040