WEBVTT - Anthony Baxter and Dylan Avery 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:05.039 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Recently, 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:08.520 I've been producing a documentary film series each summer on 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.280 Long Island on behalf of the Hampton's International Film Festival, 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.640 and I'm pretty much addicted to documentary films. A good 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:21.599 documentary film requires a mixture of four basic ingredients. A 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:26.360 great story, a filmmaker with passion, an experienced crew, and money. 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:30.800 Today on the show, I'll speak with two documentary filmmakers 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:35.479 who each made controversial political films using a slightly different formula. 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.680 The story was there, but without any money or experience, 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.680 they had to make up that deficit with excess passion 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:46.040 or perhaps a better word, obsession. My first guest is 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:50.080 Anthony Baxter. Baxter was a radio journalist for the b 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.280 b C who turned to filmmaking when a unique strip 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.840 of coastline near his home in northeast Scotland was threatened 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:01.240 with development by billionaire Donald Trump. Trump had purchased a 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.000 few thousand acres of land with the intent of building 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:08.800 a golf course. Baxter's film You've Been Trumped documents the 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:13.160 drama that unfolded amongst Trump, the Scottish government, who supported 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.319 the project and the community of people who were deeply 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.720 rooted there. I'm going to build for the people of 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.440 Scotland the greatest golf course anywhere in the world. There'll 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:24.640 be nothing like it, and it's going to be done 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.560 environmentally perfect. It's just so false. You know, all these 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.760 people alive and suited and booted and yes, Mr Trump, no, 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.119 Mr Trump. It's a real mosaic of habitats. You've got 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:39.480 everything from open sound to shrubs, two trees to wetlands. 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.840 I've received many environmental awards over the years. The greatest 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.720 thing I've ever done for the environment is what I'll 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.880 be doing right here in Aberdeen. People who don't approve 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:55.800 of this, I don't approve a Bullion. Filmmaker Anthony Baxter 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.240 lives in a tiny village just fifty miles south of 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.680 Aberdeenshire where the film takes place, and it was Baxter's 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.200 pure frustration that fueled the film. The first thing was 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.079 really I felt, look, this story is not being reported 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.280 accurately in the media. In the two local newspapers were 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:14.240 saying this is going to be a fantastic thing. For 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:16.240 the end. They were on board from the beginning. Absolutely, 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.080 Why do you think that is. Well, when Donald Trump arrived, 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.720 the red carpet was rolled out as private jet touchdown 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.919 at Aberdeen Airport. The press were invited and they all 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:28.800 came along and they all said, this is going to 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.160 be fantastic. In a way, I think it was celebrity 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.040 is coming to this little part of Scotland and Donald 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.079 Trump is going to bring with him all these jobs. 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.480 And the media kind of just latched onto this as 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:42.480 if it was going to be a saving thing for 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.160 for the area. Who is the primary employer that what's 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.160 the primary means of employment there? The main employer for 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:50.640 the area is is the oil industry. I would say 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.160 that has been the driving force of the economy in 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:55.959 that part of the world. That's why there is only 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.800 one percent unemployment one percent in Aberdeenshire, which is where 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:01.960 you know, Donald Trump said he was going to be 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:06.400 building a golf course resort and and employing thousands of people. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.520 And so when I heard that was happening, When I 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.760 heard that this was going to be essentially saving the 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.919 local economy according to you, thought that was strange because 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:17.799 he didn't need saving. Well, there are two things that 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.639 struck me about it. One was you know, the economy 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.839 I felt didn't need saving. The other thing was that 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:27.320 the environmental impact of this development was going to be enormous. 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.160 I mean, this was being built on a stretch of 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:33.000 unique scientific interest. To cite a special scientific interest as 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.200 the highest accolade that our country can bestow to a 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.280 protected site. So it's the equivalent in like in the 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.000 unities of like a national seashore. Absolutely, when you have 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:46.360 some massive tract of land that is of unique environmental value. Yes, 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:48.920 so it wasn't protected land. It was protected. It was 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.720 supposed to protective and development. Now what happened was nobody 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:55.720 reported the environmental impact that this result was going to have. 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.080 And I knew, having made a documentary for the BBC, 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.000 that it was going to be significant. Knew that this 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.520 was a protected site. But none of the local press 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:07.360 was saying anything about this, and instead they were focusing 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.640 in on the spack between Donald Trump and a and 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.440 one local resident who didn't want to sell his property. 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.920 And you know, I felt that the local people were 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.560 being parodied, and so I went up and I spoke 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:22.360 to them. I usually get up about seven and let 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.479 the cut out, and in this dark mornings, I just 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.400 nipped back to bed again and turn on the TV 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.800 and little about c half to seven, Get ready, staff, 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:40.960 Nick Borridge, give this manor job, eaches, give this minor 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:46.960 job in a guard job. My father he sang songs 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.400 that you never hear of the day. And he used 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.400 to sing a song You'll never miss the water till 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:56.320 the well runs dry, which is a very true. Seeing 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.520 here are people who live in an almost kind of 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.799 harmetic and very innocent lifestyle, their minding their own business 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.600 on a farm on the Scottish coast, and along comes 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:16.719 Darth Vader, if you will, Who's going to grip the 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.000 whole thing down and displace all them? And they seem 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.800 incredibly incredibly innocent people. Did they strike you that way 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:25.200 that they just wanted to be left alone and go 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.080 about their business? Absolutely? I mean when I first spoke 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.800 to the people there, um, I said to them, look, 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.479 you know, I think that Donald Trump should be held 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:37.000 accountable for his actions here, and I want you to 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.880 give me your trust that I will follow this story 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.400 and and hold into account for this and all over 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.120 the world, you know, whether it's in New York or 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:50.080 whether it's in Michigan, and whether it's in Denver or 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.240 all the places we've shown the film, people can't to 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:54.839 us and they've said the same kind of thing is 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:57.480 happening here. You know, it's not always Donald Trump, but 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.360 often there is a developer coming in say look, we're 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.360 going to develop this land. We think it's going to 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.279 be fantastic for the economy, and the local government gets 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.560 on side. Maybe there's a real this is striking accord. 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:12.800 Let me just say that Trump is a very mixed bag. 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.159 If he was a filmmaker, you know, he'd have water 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.880 World on some of his slate, and he'd have I'm 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:21.960 not going to say Citizen Kane, but he'd have some 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.080 pretty estimable things. Trump is a very very complicated person. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.160 And I'm wondering you were around him. How much were 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.359 you because in the film you doesn't seem like you 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:35.000 are in direct, you know, proximity to him all that often? 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.520 Is that true? Yeah? I mean I went up there. 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:42.960 The first day I went up to film really was 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:44.719 in May when he came over. I heard on the 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.279 news he was there, So I went up and I 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:49.200 said to the guy on the door of this this 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:53.039 UM press conference, Look, I'm from Entres Pictures of the 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:57.919 production company, which I am and um. I went down 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.800 and I started filming there, and when I saw Donald 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:05.720 Trump standing there saying, we are going to stabilize the 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.520 dunes and make them better than they were previously. The 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:14.000 scientists had said to me that if you stabilize the junes, 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.320 it's the worst possible thing you can do. You know, 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:20.560 by stabilizing the dunes, you are taking away the thing 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.080 that makes them a site of special scientific interest. You know, 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.600 they've been there for many hundreds of years, moving and 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:27.960 shifting on their own, on their own accord. And if 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.600 you stabilize them to build a golf course, then you 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:35.880 are changing the landscape forever and that uniqueness. Well, you see. 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:37.800 You see. The thing is with with Donald Trump. He's 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.440 used to having media around who are going to give 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.200 him good press. But I disagree with you. I think 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.920 maybe that's the case over there. What was it about 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.840 what was going on over there that people bit the 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.600 Trump hook? Because in America they don't do them anymore. 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.800 Trump is someone who is viewed with as much skepticism 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:58.200 as he is with fascination. Who didn't say no? And 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:00.840 why didn't they say? Now? Well, first, Bore the local 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.080 government said no, and the Scottish government called in the decision, 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.840 over ruling the local guy. Do you think their argument 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.120 was that this is in the Scottish national interest, this 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.360 is going to create so many jobs. They said, look, 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.640 this is going to put Scotland on the map for golf, 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:17.760 even though as we all know Scotland as stuff full 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.880 of golf courses. Anyways, that's where golf was founded, you know, 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.560 St Andrew's. And it's baffling to me. I have to say, 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.080 I don't understand it myself, you know, I mean the end, 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:27.840 it was just someone who you could point to who 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.840 was ultimately responsible for their decision. On the national level. Well, 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.320 the First Minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond, refused to do 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:39.319 an interview with us, but essentially he was the one absolutely. 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:43.079 And now, of course we've got this extraordinary situation where 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.600 Donald Trump is furious about a wind farm which has 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.320 been planned off the coast. He's saying that if the 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:52.920 wind farmers built, he's out, He's out. Who's going to 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.920 make that decision. That's down to the Scottish government, to 0:08:55.920 --> 0:09:00.320 Alex Salmond. But you see Mr Salmond has so there's 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:04.160 been a wall of silence after Donald Trump wrote a 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.320 couple of letters to the First Minister, furious letters saying 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.640 you promised me this wind farm wouldn't be built, did they? Um? Well, 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.400 the Scottish government's line at the moment is that was 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:18.040 the previous administration and I actually, you know, the thing 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.679 is is that this golf course development was given the 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:25.800 go ahead by Mr Salmon, who said, we're giving this 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.720 to go ahead because we believe the idea that's going 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.520 to bring all these jobs. We understand there's going to 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.480 be a serious environmental impact. But sometimes as a government 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.760 you have to make tough decisions. How did he address 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.000 the concerns about the environment, Well, he just ignored them. 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:44.080 He basically acknowledged there would be an environmental impact, but 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:48.679 he said that the economic developments, the economic gain, outweighed 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.880 the environmental concerns. In the film, you see that the 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.200 bulldozers have torn into the whole thing. The whole thing 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.400 is completely lacerated and it looks like a golf course 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:01.280 because the destruction, as you as you say, has been done. 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.439 But what hasn't happened yet is the skyscraper hotel and 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:09.960 the undred houses and all the facilities. The skyscraper hotel, 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.120 and he doesn't get the condos. Are they they're going 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.120 to still have a Gulf operation. They they're going to 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.120 have a couple of temporary buildings. But now he's saying 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:18.800 that work on the rest of it is on hold 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.319 until there's a wind farm decision. Once the status of 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:23.360 the wind farm decision, well, we're waiting for a decision 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.760 from the Scottish government on that, and you know that 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.199 remains to be seen. But Donald Trump is a developer. 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:32.559 That's what he does. He builds skyscrapers, he builds resorts. 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:36.000 The Scottish government said in this case, look, you know, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.960 we understand there's this big environmental impact, but the economics 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.480 outweigh that, and I think that question has to be 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:43.680 put to the Scottish government. The Scottish government at the 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:48.320 moment is fighting to have Scotland as a fully independent country. 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:50.360 There's going to be a referendum in two thousand and 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:55.040 fourteen for true Scottish independence, where Scotland would be completely 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.680 separate to the rest of the United Kingdom. What's the 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.840 public support for that. Well, you know, it's an interesting question. 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.079 I don't know what the latest surveys are on that. 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:07.959 But if you are going to have a government which 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:12.000 overturns its own strict environmental policies in order to give 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.000 a developer the green light to build a golf course, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.400 resort and a skyscraper, hotel and houses on one of 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:22.040 its last wilderness areas. Then you have to ask yourself 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.560 the question, you know, how will the Scottish government be 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.520 behaving in the future, right? You know, this was an 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.520 opportunity in a way for Scotland to stand up and say, look, 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:34.920 you know we have here a prized part of our 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.120 country which is beautiful. It's one of our last wilderness areas. 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.640 We could stand up now and say, look, we know 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.360 there is this development proposal to come in from Donald 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.920 Trump to build this resort. It's going to bring a 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.200 few jobs that the economists who we have in the 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.800 film say the number of jobs will be closer to zero. 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:54.600 You know, they had an opportunity to stand up for 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.800 the environment. The Scottish government had that opportunity and it 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.240 and it refused to take it. For the future of Scotland, 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.560 I think that sends out huge alarm bells. If you 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:05.959 have a fully independent Scotland, then it's going to allow 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.120 that kind of thing to happen again. But I'm wondering, 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:12.280 when you make films like this which involved these causes, 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.080 what does this do to you in the long term, 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.480 meaning the golf course is there, the damage is done 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.000 in the scenic beauty. Do you feel any compulsion to 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:27.080 participate in this process now beyond you having cut the 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.000 camera or do you just walk away from it now 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:30.679 and you're not really engaged by what's coming on? I 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.640 think it really does get under you still care. I 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:35.840 think the thing is is that the story doesn't really 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.079 leave you. I think in a way this as you say, 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.520 the golf course is there, it could be reclaimed in 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.760 hundreds of years. In fact, there's a Scottish singer songwriter 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.520 called Kareem Poet. He has written a song inspired by 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:52.120 the film where the Steve Fogg in Scotland, which is 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.280 called the Heart reaps its quiet vengeance on the resort 0:12:55.960 --> 0:13:04.240 and eventually it really is reclaimed by nature. The tist 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:08.360 of labs and flows where the Ethan meets the ocean, 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:13.400 and not even God himself could stop the northern leads 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:19.559 from blowing. You can tear these turns asunder bounders wondering 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:25.720 to dust with your cruel hands and crooked hearts, laden 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:32.199 with lost an expensive life. But the horror will stumble 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:40.040 in to color your eyes. The heart will stumble. And 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.280 how did you raise the money for? You've been trumped? 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.839 Where the money come from? So we didn't have any money. 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.400 The way it works now for filmmakers, as you go 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.000 to a pitching forum often and you say, look, I've 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:54.520 got this idea for this film I think is an 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.280 important story. You make a trailer, you found that yourself. 0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.839 You then stand in front of a load of executives 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.560 from around the world and you tell them why you 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.719 think this story is really important as a documentary, and 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.120 they then decide whether or not they're going to fund 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.600 it or not. And so when I pitched this film 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.560 at the Edinburgh International Film Festival and we were voted 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.080 essentially the best pitch. However, one of the executives from 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:20.640 PBS actually said to me, I hope you've got a 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.840 good lawyer, because if you're going to take on Donald Trump, 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.480 you're going to need one. And there was no money 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.680 forthcoming from that pitching session, so I had to remortgage 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.600 the house and we hit the internet and crowdfunded this. 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.680 This is how many documentary filmmakers are making films now. 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:42.560 They hit a website like Indiego Go or Kickstarter, they 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.200 make a trailer and they ask people to contribute money. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.480 I mean, you're in the land of Robert Townsend in 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.400 Hollywood Shuffle where you're putting it on your own credit 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:52.760 card and bar You're just you're just doing whatever you can. 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:54.920 It's the only way you can do it. What was 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.120 the budget of the film. Finally, I'm terribly British when 0:14:58.120 --> 0:14:59.880 it comes to things like this. I talk about money. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.760 I'm asking because I think people find this interesting. Meaning, 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:08.680 a guy on a zone found a way the couple together, X. 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.560 Would you say it was north of five dollars? Oh gosh, 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:13.560 if way south of that? I mean it was south 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.680 of that, Okay, I mean i'd say I'd say in 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.400 a way to be honest with you, Alec, if you 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.600 have a camera and you have memory cards or tapes 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.880 to put into the camera, you're really talking about your time. 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.400 And the location was to drive away from your exactly. 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:28.680 So I was able to drive up there, and that's 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:30.520 really what was so important to me. I mean that, 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.760 you know, and that's what documentary filmmaking for me is 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:35.920 all about trying to get to the truth of something 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:40.800 you find, well, is this real life? Is this really unfolding? 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:45.000 And sometimes real life is stranger than fiction, and this 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.960 is this is a classic example of that. I don't 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:53.360 think your film is finished. There's a there is a 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.200 part two. I think the thing is. What we've found 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:59.160 is that, for example, we've been showing the film in 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.359 Croatia recently, and we showed it in the town of Dobrovnik, 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.760 which is under threat from you know, an alleged as 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.680 Radia arms dealer who's building this golf court wants to 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.080 build a golf course resort overlooking the sound the town 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.520 of Dobrovnik, which is a UNISCO protected site, and the 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:19.080 local villagers put the film on to try and bring 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:21.480 home to people this is what the future could hold 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:23.280 for us if we allow this kind of thing to happen. 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.880 I mean, in Croatia, the government is supporting the building 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:30.040 of a hundred golf resorts. You know, in a way 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.840 the film where we've been screening it in America, there 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:35.280 are people who come up to us and they say, 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.520 you know, there's a similar kind of development being planned 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.800 for here, and so you're right. It isn't over. What 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.040 are you working on? Well, at the moment, I'm working 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:46.840 on trying to get the film out to an audience. 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:48.960 We think that this story is one that has to 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.360 be told, is one that resonates with people here in America. 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:56.120 But we're doing distribution now we don't have Why do 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:58.000 you think you don't have distribution? Do you think that 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.560 some people are overlook the film if you were in 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.119 the distribution world, because what's new about spitting on Trump? Well? 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.639 I think on the film shows Donald Trump. Has you 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.120 never seen him before? I mean, because here you see 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:15.320 him bullying and harassing local people and developing a unique 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.000 wilderness area and destroying an environment. Store see, I happen 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:22.280 to be a very truthful person. His property is terribly maintained. 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:26.520 It's slum like, it's disgusting. He's got stuff thrown all 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:28.639 over the place. He lives like a pig. And I 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.439 did say that. And I'm an honest guy, and I 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.879 speak honestly, and I think that's why some people like 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.520 me and some people probably don't like me. But I 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:38.640 think you do himself a great service if you fixed 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.440 up this property, you do show it on camera. There's 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.119 a thing that Trump does, which is the thing I 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.560 loved most about the film. There is his Trump condemning 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:51.840 these people and marginalizing these innocent people, these completely innocent people. 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.520 We were surprised ourselves. I think about the impact it 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.760 would have on audiences, but people in theaters when they 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.080 see it, it's got a tremendous power, I think, because 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.800 people feel very strongly about what's happened, and they feel 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:17.640 very strongly for these people and for the environment. Donald 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:22.560 Trump's golf course in Aberdeen, Scotland opened last month. Plans 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.560 to build the hotel are on hold, pending a decision 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.240 by the Scottish government to allow a wind farm to 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.920 be built within view of the course. You've Been Trumped 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.000 is playing at the Village East Cinema in New York. 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:44.320 It opens in Los Angeles on August. My next guest, 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:48.159 Dylan Avery, was an eighteen year old film student in 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.480 upstate New York when he came up with an idea 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:54.080 for a summer action movie about a vast nine eleven 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:59.080 conspiracy while working as a waiter at Red Lobster. Avery 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.840 combed through undreds of hours of eyewitness accounts, news footage, 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:08.040 and official reports from nine eleven His fictional script gradually 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:13.240 dissolved into an obsessively researched documentary called Loose Change, which 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:17.680 alleged that nine eleven really was an inside job. Here's 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:25.600 a clip of only seven ft long high, has a 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:30.040 hundred and twenty ft wingspan and weighs almost one tons. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.080 Are we supposed to believe that it disappeared into this 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.520 hole without leaving any wreckage on the outside? Why is 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.879 there no damage from where the wings, or the vertical 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.959 stabilizer or the engines would have slammed into the building. 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:48.080 Avery's film became an online sensation after being posted on 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:51.840 the Internet. Loose Change spawned a truth or movement composed 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.919 of people that believe the government orchestrated nine eleven and 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:58.640 then covered it up. And as with all conspiracy theories, 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.359 talking about them in public can get you into trouble. 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.199 That hasn't stopped Dylan Avery. The nine eleven Commission was 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:07.080 a cover up, and the only question is what it 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.680 was covering up. What do you think it was covering up? 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:15.479 Easily the the complete abundance of warnings that it appeared 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.480 the government received. When you have John Ashcroft flying private 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:22.480 jets in July two thousand one. When you have massive 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.639 put options placed on American United Airlines leading up to 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.680 the events, that is suspicious, to say the least, when 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.240 you take those facts because this is a game. Obviously 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.199 I shouldn't say game, but this is an exercise that 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.600 a lot of people have toyed with. One thing you 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:39.480 do sing in the film, which is the one I 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.639 can't let go of, is the destruction of the entire 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:44.919 Rolls Royce engine system and the entire fuselage of the 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:49.560 plane that goes into the Pentagon. Shanksville is more glaring 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.200 the Pentagon, because I mean, I've seen news footage taken 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.360 immediately after, I've seen photographs taken that day, days after 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.000 the fact, and there is just nothing there. There's a 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:01.320 hole in the ground, there's no fusilize, there's no engine, 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.960 there's no tail, there's no What did the eleven Commission 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.359 say about that? They simply said that the plane crashed 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.199 going at a very high rate of speed. There are 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:13.960 websites dedicated specifically to airplane crashes and to the debris leftover, 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:18.600 and you can go to any jumbo jet crash ever, 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:21.960 and you will see something some kind of trace. I mean, 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:24.680 the eyewitnesses that showed up to the site said themselves, 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:26.480 I didn't even know if I was in the right place. 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:29.160 I didn't see a plane. What happened to the people 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:30.840 that were on the plane that that plane took off? 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.600 What have people postulated to you has happened? Oh man, 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.800 there's that makes sense to you. There's a lot of 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.080 theories out there, but I and that's the one thing 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:42.080 that I've tried to avoid talking about in the past 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:45.640 couple of years is theories because it's just dangerous territory 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:47.560 and you start talking about things that may or may 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.000 not have happened to the extent without endorsing or even 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.080 discussing any theory. Are there any that addressed that, for example, 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:54.639 that have made any sense to you at all? I 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.480 mean that there's all kinds that the four original planes 0:21:57.520 --> 0:21:59.760 were herded to an Air Force space and then the 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:02.760 path messengers because all four of the planes on the 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.960 morning of nine eleven averaged about capacity. I don't know 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.479