1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,039 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Recently, 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: I've been producing a documentary film series each summer on 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: Long Island on behalf of the Hampton's International Film Festival, 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: and I'm pretty much addicted to documentary films. A good 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: documentary film requires a mixture of four basic ingredients. A 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: great story, a filmmaker with passion, an experienced crew, and money. 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: Today on the show, I'll speak with two documentary filmmakers 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: who each made controversial political films using a slightly different formula. 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: The story was there, but without any money or experience, 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: they had to make up that deficit with excess passion 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: or perhaps a better word, obsession. My first guest is 12 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: Anthony Baxter. Baxter was a radio journalist for the b 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: b C who turned to filmmaking when a unique strip 14 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: of coastline near his home in northeast Scotland was threatened 15 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: with development by billionaire Donald Trump. Trump had purchased a 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: few thousand acres of land with the intent of building 17 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: a golf course. Baxter's film You've Been Trumped documents the 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: drama that unfolded amongst Trump, the Scottish government, who supported 19 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: the project and the community of people who were deeply 20 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: rooted there. I'm going to build for the people of 21 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: Scotland the greatest golf course anywhere in the world. There'll 22 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: be nothing like it, and it's going to be done 23 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: environmentally perfect. It's just so false. You know, all these 24 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: people alive and suited and booted and yes, Mr Trump, no, 25 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: Mr Trump. It's a real mosaic of habitats. You've got 26 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: everything from open sound to shrubs, two trees to wetlands. 27 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: I've received many environmental awards over the years. The greatest 28 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: thing I've ever done for the environment is what I'll 29 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: be doing right here in Aberdeen. People who don't approve 30 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: of this, I don't approve a Bullion. Filmmaker Anthony Baxter 31 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: lives in a tiny village just fifty miles south of 32 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: Aberdeenshire where the film takes place, and it was Baxter's 33 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: pure frustration that fueled the film. The first thing was 34 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: really I felt, look, this story is not being reported 35 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: accurately in the media. In the two local newspapers were 36 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: saying this is going to be a fantastic thing. For 37 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: the end. They were on board from the beginning. Absolutely, 38 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: Why do you think that is. Well, when Donald Trump arrived, 39 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: the red carpet was rolled out as private jet touchdown 40 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: at Aberdeen Airport. The press were invited and they all 41 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: came along and they all said, this is going to 42 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: be fantastic. In a way, I think it was celebrity 43 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: is coming to this little part of Scotland and Donald 44 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: Trump is going to bring with him all these jobs. 45 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: And the media kind of just latched onto this as 46 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: if it was going to be a saving thing for 47 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: for the area. Who is the primary employer that what's 48 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: the primary means of employment there? The main employer for 49 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: the area is is the oil industry. I would say 50 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: that has been the driving force of the economy in 51 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: that part of the world. That's why there is only 52 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: one percent unemployment one percent in Aberdeenshire, which is where 53 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: you know, Donald Trump said he was going to be 54 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: building a golf course resort and and employing thousands of people. 55 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: And so when I heard that was happening, When I 56 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: heard that this was going to be essentially saving the 57 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: local economy according to you, thought that was strange because 58 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: he didn't need saving. Well, there are two things that 59 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: struck me about it. One was you know, the economy 60 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,839 Speaker 1: I felt didn't need saving. The other thing was that 61 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: the environmental impact of this development was going to be enormous. 62 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: I mean, this was being built on a stretch of 63 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: unique scientific interest. To cite a special scientific interest as 64 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: the highest accolade that our country can bestow to a 65 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: protected site. So it's the equivalent in like in the 66 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: unities of like a national seashore. Absolutely, when you have 67 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: some massive tract of land that is of unique environmental value. Yes, 68 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: so it wasn't protected land. It was protected. It was 69 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: supposed to protective and development. Now what happened was nobody 70 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: reported the environmental impact that this result was going to have. 71 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: And I knew, having made a documentary for the BBC, 72 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: that it was going to be significant. Knew that this 73 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: was a protected site. But none of the local press 74 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: was saying anything about this, and instead they were focusing 75 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: in on the spack between Donald Trump and a and 76 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: one local resident who didn't want to sell his property. 77 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: And you know, I felt that the local people were 78 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: being parodied, and so I went up and I spoke 79 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: to them. I usually get up about seven and let 80 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: the cut out, and in this dark mornings, I just 81 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: nipped back to bed again and turn on the TV 82 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: and little about c half to seven, Get ready, staff, 83 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: Nick Borridge, give this manor job, eaches, give this minor 84 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: job in a guard job. My father he sang songs 85 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: that you never hear of the day. And he used 86 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: to sing a song You'll never miss the water till 87 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: the well runs dry, which is a very true. Seeing 88 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: here are people who live in an almost kind of 89 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,799 Speaker 1: harmetic and very innocent lifestyle, their minding their own business 90 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: on a farm on the Scottish coast, and along comes 91 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: Darth Vader, if you will, Who's going to grip the 92 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: whole thing down and displace all them? And they seem 93 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: incredibly incredibly innocent people. Did they strike you that way 94 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: that they just wanted to be left alone and go 95 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: about their business? Absolutely? I mean when I first spoke 96 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: to the people there, um, I said to them, look, 97 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: you know, I think that Donald Trump should be held 98 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: accountable for his actions here, and I want you to 99 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: give me your trust that I will follow this story 100 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: and and hold into account for this and all over 101 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: the world, you know, whether it's in New York or 102 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: whether it's in Michigan, and whether it's in Denver or 103 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: all the places we've shown the film, people can't to 104 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: us and they've said the same kind of thing is 105 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: happening here. You know, it's not always Donald Trump, but 106 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: often there is a developer coming in say look, we're 107 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: going to develop this land. We think it's going to 108 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: be fantastic for the economy, and the local government gets 109 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: on side. Maybe there's a real this is striking accord. 110 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: Let me just say that Trump is a very mixed bag. 111 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: If he was a filmmaker, you know, he'd have water 112 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: World on some of his slate, and he'd have I'm 113 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: not going to say Citizen Kane, but he'd have some 114 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: pretty estimable things. Trump is a very very complicated person. 115 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering you were around him. How much were 116 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: you because in the film you doesn't seem like you 117 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: are in direct, you know, proximity to him all that often? 118 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: Is that true? Yeah? I mean I went up there. 119 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: The first day I went up to film really was 120 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: in May when he came over. I heard on the 121 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: news he was there, So I went up and I 122 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: said to the guy on the door of this this 123 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: UM press conference, Look, I'm from Entres Pictures of the 124 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: production company, which I am and um. I went down 125 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: and I started filming there, and when I saw Donald 126 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: Trump standing there saying, we are going to stabilize the 127 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: dunes and make them better than they were previously. The 128 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: scientists had said to me that if you stabilize the junes, 129 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: it's the worst possible thing you can do. You know, 130 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: by stabilizing the dunes, you are taking away the thing 131 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: that makes them a site of special scientific interest. You know, 132 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: they've been there for many hundreds of years, moving and 133 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: shifting on their own, on their own accord. And if 134 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: you stabilize them to build a golf course, then you 135 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: are changing the landscape forever and that uniqueness. Well, you see. 136 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: You see. The thing is with with Donald Trump. He's 137 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: used to having media around who are going to give 138 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: him good press. But I disagree with you. I think 139 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: maybe that's the case over there. What was it about 140 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: what was going on over there that people bit the 141 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: Trump hook? Because in America they don't do them anymore. 142 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: Trump is someone who is viewed with as much skepticism 143 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: as he is with fascination. Who didn't say no? And 144 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: why didn't they say? Now? Well, first, Bore the local 145 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: government said no, and the Scottish government called in the decision, 146 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: over ruling the local guy. Do you think their argument 147 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: was that this is in the Scottish national interest, this 148 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: is going to create so many jobs. They said, look, 149 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: this is going to put Scotland on the map for golf, 150 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: even though as we all know Scotland as stuff full 151 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: of golf courses. Anyways, that's where golf was founded, you know, 152 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: St Andrew's. And it's baffling to me. I have to say, 153 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: I don't understand it myself, you know, I mean the end, 154 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: it was just someone who you could point to who 155 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: was ultimately responsible for their decision. On the national level. Well, 156 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: the First Minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond, refused to do 157 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: an interview with us, but essentially he was the one absolutely. 158 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 1: And now, of course we've got this extraordinary situation where 159 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: Donald Trump is furious about a wind farm which has 160 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: been planned off the coast. He's saying that if the 161 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: wind farmers built, he's out, He's out. Who's going to 162 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: make that decision. That's down to the Scottish government, to 163 00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: Alex Salmond. But you see Mr Salmond has so there's 164 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: been a wall of silence after Donald Trump wrote a 165 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: couple of letters to the First Minister, furious letters saying 166 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: you promised me this wind farm wouldn't be built, did they? Um? Well, 167 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: the Scottish government's line at the moment is that was 168 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: the previous administration and I actually, you know, the thing 169 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: is is that this golf course development was given the 170 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: go ahead by Mr Salmon, who said, we're giving this 171 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: to go ahead because we believe the idea that's going 172 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: to bring all these jobs. We understand there's going to 173 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: be a serious environmental impact. But sometimes as a government 174 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: you have to make tough decisions. How did he address 175 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: the concerns about the environment, Well, he just ignored them. 176 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: He basically acknowledged there would be an environmental impact, but 177 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: he said that the economic developments, the economic gain, outweighed 178 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: the environmental concerns. In the film, you see that the 179 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: bulldozers have torn into the whole thing. The whole thing 180 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: is completely lacerated and it looks like a golf course 181 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: because the destruction, as you as you say, has been done. 182 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: But what hasn't happened yet is the skyscraper hotel and 183 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: the undred houses and all the facilities. The skyscraper hotel, 184 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: and he doesn't get the condos. Are they they're going 185 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: to still have a Gulf operation. They they're going to 186 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: have a couple of temporary buildings. But now he's saying 187 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: that work on the rest of it is on hold 188 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: until there's a wind farm decision. Once the status of 189 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: the wind farm decision, well, we're waiting for a decision 190 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: from the Scottish government on that, and you know that 191 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: remains to be seen. But Donald Trump is a developer. 192 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 1: That's what he does. He builds skyscrapers, he builds resorts. 193 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: The Scottish government said in this case, look, you know, 194 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: we understand there's this big environmental impact, but the economics 195 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: outweigh that, and I think that question has to be 196 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: put to the Scottish government. The Scottish government at the 197 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: moment is fighting to have Scotland as a fully independent country. 198 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: There's going to be a referendum in two thousand and 199 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: fourteen for true Scottish independence, where Scotland would be completely 200 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: separate to the rest of the United Kingdom. What's the 201 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: public support for that. Well, you know, it's an interesting question. 202 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: I don't know what the latest surveys are on that. 203 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: But if you are going to have a government which 204 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: overturns its own strict environmental policies in order to give 205 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: a developer the green light to build a golf course, 206 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: resort and a skyscraper, hotel and houses on one of 207 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: its last wilderness areas. Then you have to ask yourself 208 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: the question, you know, how will the Scottish government be 209 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: behaving in the future, right? You know, this was an 210 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: opportunity in a way for Scotland to stand up and say, look, 211 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: you know we have here a prized part of our 212 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: country which is beautiful. It's one of our last wilderness areas. 213 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: We could stand up now and say, look, we know 214 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: there is this development proposal to come in from Donald 215 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: Trump to build this resort. It's going to bring a 216 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: few jobs that the economists who we have in the 217 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: film say the number of jobs will be closer to zero. 218 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: You know, they had an opportunity to stand up for 219 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: the environment. The Scottish government had that opportunity and it 220 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: and it refused to take it. For the future of Scotland, 221 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: I think that sends out huge alarm bells. If you 222 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,959 Speaker 1: have a fully independent Scotland, then it's going to allow 223 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: that kind of thing to happen again. But I'm wondering, 224 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: when you make films like this which involved these causes, 225 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: what does this do to you in the long term, 226 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: meaning the golf course is there, the damage is done 227 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: in the scenic beauty. Do you feel any compulsion to 228 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: participate in this process now beyond you having cut the 229 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: camera or do you just walk away from it now 230 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: and you're not really engaged by what's coming on? I 231 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: think it really does get under you still care. I 232 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: think the thing is is that the story doesn't really 233 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: leave you. I think in a way this as you say, 234 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: the golf course is there, it could be reclaimed in 235 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: hundreds of years. In fact, there's a Scottish singer songwriter 236 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: called Kareem Poet. He has written a song inspired by 237 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: the film where the Steve Fogg in Scotland, which is 238 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: called the Heart reaps its quiet vengeance on the resort 239 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: and eventually it really is reclaimed by nature. The tist 240 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: of labs and flows where the Ethan meets the ocean, 241 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: and not even God himself could stop the northern leads 242 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 1: from blowing. You can tear these turns asunder bounders wondering 243 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: to dust with your cruel hands and crooked hearts, laden 244 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: with lost an expensive life. But the horror will stumble 245 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: in to color your eyes. The heart will stumble. And 246 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: how did you raise the money for? You've been trumped? 247 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: Where the money come from? So we didn't have any money. 248 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: The way it works now for filmmakers, as you go 249 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: to a pitching forum often and you say, look, I've 250 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: got this idea for this film I think is an 251 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: important story. You make a trailer, you found that yourself. 252 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: You then stand in front of a load of executives 253 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: from around the world and you tell them why you 254 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,719 Speaker 1: think this story is really important as a documentary, and 255 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: they then decide whether or not they're going to fund 256 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: it or not. And so when I pitched this film 257 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: at the Edinburgh International Film Festival and we were voted 258 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: essentially the best pitch. However, one of the executives from 259 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: PBS actually said to me, I hope you've got a 260 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: good lawyer, because if you're going to take on Donald Trump, 261 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: you're going to need one. And there was no money 262 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: forthcoming from that pitching session, so I had to remortgage 263 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: the house and we hit the internet and crowdfunded this. 264 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: This is how many documentary filmmakers are making films now. 265 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: They hit a website like Indiego Go or Kickstarter, they 266 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: make a trailer and they ask people to contribute money. 267 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you're in the land of Robert Townsend in 268 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: Hollywood Shuffle where you're putting it on your own credit 269 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: card and bar You're just you're just doing whatever you can. 270 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: It's the only way you can do it. What was 271 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: the budget of the film. Finally, I'm terribly British when 272 00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: it comes to things like this. I talk about money. 273 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: I'm asking because I think people find this interesting. Meaning, 274 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: a guy on a zone found a way the couple together, X. 275 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: Would you say it was north of five dollars? Oh gosh, 276 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: if way south of that? I mean it was south 277 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: of that, Okay, I mean i'd say I'd say in 278 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: a way to be honest with you, Alec, if you 279 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: have a camera and you have memory cards or tapes 280 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: to put into the camera, you're really talking about your time. 281 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: And the location was to drive away from your exactly. 282 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: So I was able to drive up there, and that's 283 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: really what was so important to me. I mean that, 284 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: you know, and that's what documentary filmmaking for me is 285 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: all about trying to get to the truth of something 286 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: you find, well, is this real life? Is this really unfolding? 287 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: And sometimes real life is stranger than fiction, and this 288 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: is this is a classic example of that. I don't 289 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: think your film is finished. There's a there is a 290 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: part two. I think the thing is. What we've found 291 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: is that, for example, we've been showing the film in 292 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,359 Speaker 1: Croatia recently, and we showed it in the town of Dobrovnik, 293 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: which is under threat from you know, an alleged as 294 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: Radia arms dealer who's building this golf court wants to 295 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: build a golf course resort overlooking the sound the town 296 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: of Dobrovnik, which is a UNISCO protected site, and the 297 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: local villagers put the film on to try and bring 298 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: home to people this is what the future could hold 299 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: for us if we allow this kind of thing to happen. 300 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: I mean, in Croatia, the government is supporting the building 301 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: of a hundred golf resorts. You know, in a way 302 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: the film where we've been screening it in America, there 303 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: are people who come up to us and they say, 304 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: you know, there's a similar kind of development being planned 305 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: for here, and so you're right. It isn't over. What 306 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: are you working on? Well, at the moment, I'm working 307 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: on trying to get the film out to an audience. 308 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: We think that this story is one that has to 309 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: be told, is one that resonates with people here in America. 310 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: But we're doing distribution now we don't have Why do 311 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: you think you don't have distribution? Do you think that 312 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: some people are overlook the film if you were in 313 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: the distribution world, because what's new about spitting on Trump? Well? 314 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: I think on the film shows Donald Trump. Has you 315 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: never seen him before? I mean, because here you see 316 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: him bullying and harassing local people and developing a unique 317 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: wilderness area and destroying an environment. Store see, I happen 318 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: to be a very truthful person. His property is terribly maintained. 319 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: It's slum like, it's disgusting. He's got stuff thrown all 320 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: over the place. He lives like a pig. And I 321 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: did say that. And I'm an honest guy, and I 322 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: speak honestly, and I think that's why some people like 323 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: me and some people probably don't like me. But I 324 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: think you do himself a great service if you fixed 325 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: up this property, you do show it on camera. There's 326 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: a thing that Trump does, which is the thing I 327 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: loved most about the film. There is his Trump condemning 328 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: these people and marginalizing these innocent people, these completely innocent people. 329 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: We were surprised ourselves. I think about the impact it 330 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: would have on audiences, but people in theaters when they 331 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: see it, it's got a tremendous power, I think, because 332 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: people feel very strongly about what's happened, and they feel 333 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: very strongly for these people and for the environment. Donald 334 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: Trump's golf course in Aberdeen, Scotland opened last month. Plans 335 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: to build the hotel are on hold, pending a decision 336 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: by the Scottish government to allow a wind farm to 337 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: be built within view of the course. You've Been Trumped 338 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: is playing at the Village East Cinema in New York. 339 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: It opens in Los Angeles on August. My next guest, 340 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: Dylan Avery, was an eighteen year old film student in 341 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: upstate New York when he came up with an idea 342 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: for a summer action movie about a vast nine eleven 343 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: conspiracy while working as a waiter at Red Lobster. Avery 344 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: combed through undreds of hours of eyewitness accounts, news footage, 345 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: and official reports from nine eleven His fictional script gradually 346 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: dissolved into an obsessively researched documentary called Loose Change, which 347 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: alleged that nine eleven really was an inside job. Here's 348 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: a clip of only seven ft long high, has a 349 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty ft wingspan and weighs almost one tons. 350 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: Are we supposed to believe that it disappeared into this 351 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: hole without leaving any wreckage on the outside? Why is 352 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: there no damage from where the wings, or the vertical 353 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 1: stabilizer or the engines would have slammed into the building. 354 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: Avery's film became an online sensation after being posted on 355 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: the Internet. Loose Change spawned a truth or movement composed 356 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 1: of people that believe the government orchestrated nine eleven and 357 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: then covered it up. And as with all conspiracy theories, 358 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: talking about them in public can get you into trouble. 359 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,199 Speaker 1: That hasn't stopped Dylan Avery. The nine eleven Commission was 360 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: a cover up, and the only question is what it 361 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: was covering up. What do you think it was covering up? 362 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:15,479 Speaker 1: Easily the the complete abundance of warnings that it appeared 363 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: the government received. When you have John Ashcroft flying private 364 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: jets in July two thousand one. When you have massive 365 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: put options placed on American United Airlines leading up to 366 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: the events, that is suspicious, to say the least, when 367 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: you take those facts because this is a game. Obviously 368 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: I shouldn't say game, but this is an exercise that 369 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people have toyed with. One thing you 370 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: do sing in the film, which is the one I 371 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: can't let go of, is the destruction of the entire 372 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: Rolls Royce engine system and the entire fuselage of the 373 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: plane that goes into the Pentagon. Shanksville is more glaring 374 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: the Pentagon, because I mean, I've seen news footage taken 375 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,360 Speaker 1: immediately after, I've seen photographs taken that day, days after 376 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: the fact, and there is just nothing there. There's a 377 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: hole in the ground, there's no fusilize, there's no engine, 378 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: there's no tail, there's no What did the eleven Commission 379 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: say about that? They simply said that the plane crashed 380 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 1: going at a very high rate of speed. There are 381 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: websites dedicated specifically to airplane crashes and to the debris leftover, 382 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: and you can go to any jumbo jet crash ever, 383 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: and you will see something some kind of trace. I mean, 384 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: the eyewitnesses that showed up to the site said themselves, 385 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: I didn't even know if I was in the right place. 386 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: I didn't see a plane. What happened to the people 387 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: that were on the plane that that plane took off? 388 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: What have people postulated to you has happened? Oh man, 389 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: there's that makes sense to you. There's a lot of 390 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: theories out there, but I and that's the one thing 391 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: that I've tried to avoid talking about in the past 392 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: couple of years is theories because it's just dangerous territory 393 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: and you start talking about things that may or may 394 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: not have happened to the extent without endorsing or even 395 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: discussing any theory. Are there any that addressed that, for example, 396 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: that have made any sense to you at all? I 397 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: mean that there's all kinds that the four original planes 398 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: were herded to an Air Force space and then the 399 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: path messengers because all four of the planes on the 400 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: morning of nine eleven averaged about capacity. I don't know 401 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,479 Speaker 1: how often you fly ALEC, but even back in two 402 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: thousand one on a weekday morning, it was hard to 403 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: get four planes that empty. One of the theories is 404 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: that the four planes were shepherded into an air Force space. 405 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: The people were taken off of that plane put onto 406 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: a fifth plane, and then that plane shot down again. 407 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 1: Just a theory. I'm not saying that's what I believe. 408 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: But but let me just finish this school. We could 409 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: go on and on and you can take all the 410 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: truth movement, and you can take all that information and 411 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: set it aside, because what's daunting is you never will know. 412 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 1: So we go down there now and what do we have. 413 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: What do you think about what's been what's happening at 414 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: the site of the World Trade Center now, at the 415 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: site itself. Uh, it would be nice for everything to 416 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: have been built and for they're not to have been 417 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: this long drawn out battle of the memorial. It would 418 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: have been nice for the tenure anniversary for everything to 419 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: have been I don't want to see it back to normal, um, 420 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: because you know, how are things ever going to get 421 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: back to normal in this country. It just it seemed 422 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: like something wasn't complete. Um. It was a very surreal 423 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: day for me because you know, it's ten years after 424 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: the fact. You know, a lot has happened in the 425 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: past decade, A lot has happened with the movement with 426 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: the country. I mean Ground zero was a madhouse. It 427 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: was just amaze. You know. We all felt like we 428 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: were just kind of being corralled through these gates and 429 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: fences and eventually made our way to the free speech 430 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: zone where the truth movement was assembled. Essentially, when you say, 431 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: quote unquote the truth movement was assembled, is it a 432 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: desperate bunch of people from different distinct groups. Who's part 433 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: of that umbrella? You know, it's tricky. I suppose it 434 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: is a giant umbrella at this point, because you know, 435 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: when you you tell somebody you want the truth about 436 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: nine eleven, they they probably already have many preconceived notions 437 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 1: about what it is you're asking, just because they've seen 438 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: so many different aspects of this movement over the past decade. 439 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: There's a lot of it propelled by your film, A 440 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: good percentage of it the wind of the truth movement. Yeah, 441 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: and you know, unintentionally, so you know it was never 442 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: yeah it was it was never a goal of your Yeah, 443 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: it was just, hey, let's make this movie to express 444 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: these things. You say. You're there. Are you treated like 445 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: a deity among those people? Do they kind of like 446 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: you're you know, I actually I don't like being idolized, 447 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: and I don't like being put up on a pedestal 448 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: and having attention drawn to you. Yeah, because it's just 449 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: I'm just a filmmaker. That's all. That's all it's ever 450 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: come from. So when when you first get into this 451 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: and when you first kind of start to open your 452 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: eyes to this information, it's very easy to get sucked in, 453 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: and it's very easy to feel overwhelmed and like almost 454 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,479 Speaker 1: anything could be true more or less. But you have 455 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: to kind of reach that point where you take a 456 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: step back and you start to analyze things and just like, 457 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: all right, well, what what's good for the movement? You know, 458 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: what's good for the cause, and what are the things 459 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: that truly matter? You just said the movement. Do you 460 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: believe that you're a filmmaker who's making films and you're 461 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: pointing in casting a lightem what you think is a 462 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: set of facts or do you think you're part of 463 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: a movement or both or neither? Which is it? Primarily 464 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: I'm a filmmaker, and that's that's the whole reason loose 465 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: change exists. But and then I wrong to assume that 466 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: you've kind of gotten out of the movement business. The 467 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: last couple of years. That's well, it's tough to say, 468 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: I mean, because I'm still involved. I was still there 469 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: at Ground zero and the tenth anniversary. I still talk 470 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: to all the people that are actively Why did you go? 471 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: I went mostly to pay my respects and to see 472 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: how construction had come along, and also to see the 473 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: people that I hadn't seen since two thousand and six. 474 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: I think you cared about. Yeah, this is a movement, 475 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: and these are people that I care about and that 476 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: I know you know, And I went down to Ground 477 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: zero mostly just to be there. So tell us how 478 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: does Loose Change begin? Um? The original Loose Change feature 479 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: film script was ambitious. If I had to pick one work, 480 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: it had card chases, It had people assembling at the 481 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: White House on the end, It had this, It had 482 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: that I did. I wrote a script without any care 483 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: to budget or how I would actually film it. So 484 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: when the time came around to actually start and plan 485 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: out this film, that's the thing that I had spent 486 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: a year two years writing. It was kind of a 487 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: slow realization that the film that I wanted to make 488 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: was not possible. So it was especially after Corey came back. 489 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: My best friend Corey who signed up to the army, 490 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: and he signed up after nine eleven. He signed up 491 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: before his first day of basic training was on September eleventh, 492 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,719 Speaker 1: because he signed up in August two thousand and one. 493 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: It was kind of a running joke at the time. 494 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: It was, well, you know, we're we're not in a war. 495 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: There's not gonna be a war anytime soon, so we 496 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: don't have to worry about you. You know, it'll be fine. 497 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: And then the timing couldn't have been creepier. Um So 498 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: I would send him DVDs of the movie as it 499 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: was over to Iraq. Yeah, so while he was over 500 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: in Iraq fighting the Iraq War. Um So, while your 501 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: best friend was over in the Iraq fighting the Iraq War, 502 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: you were sending him the basic elements of your nine 503 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: eleven conspiracy theory film. Well, yeah, I don't. I'm hesitant 504 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: to use conspiracy theory, but whatever, whatever, whatever you want 505 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: to call it, you know, but I would prefer to 506 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: at least have some common language with you, which the 507 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: phrase you would rather use. I suppose the nine eleven 508 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: Truth film. You're sending your friend the elements, the raw 509 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: elements of your nine eleven Truth film. While he's fighting 510 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: a war that is founded upon the events of not 511 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 1: eleven essentially, So yeah, it's it was a very interesting 512 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: time to be alive. And then he comes back and 513 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: what happened. So when he got back, we tried shooting 514 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: a couple of scenes, and you know, in hindsight, for 515 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: like my first time directing with a little mini DV 516 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: camera and no experience whatsoever. I mean, some of the 517 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: scenes didn't turn out too bad, but it became apparent 518 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: after I started cutting it together or attempting to cut 519 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: it together, I realized the film just wasn't gonna happen, 520 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: not the way that I envisioned it. When you crossed 521 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 1: the line from the narrative film to the documentary film 522 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: with a fact similar, the facts were definitely similar in 523 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 1: a lot of the basic premises. But the really interesting 524 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: thing about it is that the Loose Change screenplay predicated 525 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: the actual events of what happened after Loose Change occurred 526 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: or after Loose Change went viral. Because in this script, 527 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: these three characters see these problems with the official story 528 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: and with what their government is doing, and slowly take 529 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: steps to educate the public, and then those steps go 530 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: essentially viral around the world, and suddenly they're held up 531 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: to be this thing that they wanted to accomplish, but 532 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: didn't expect the actual the whole world to actually listen 533 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: to them. So it was very interesting when Loose Change, 534 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: the documentary was released and it went viral around the 535 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: world and back and gave people some confidence to question 536 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: the official story, and the popularity of the war was 537 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: waning as well, and the popular the war was waning. 538 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: So you not only had this increased flow of information 539 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: about nine eleven and what had happened, but you also 540 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: had this increased distrust of the government, and you had 541 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: this climate where it seemed like almost anything was possible. 542 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,239 Speaker 1: So it for a lot of people you think a 543 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: little bit, yeah, but did you see that leap now 544 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,959 Speaker 1: differently than you did back then, that that's a bit 545 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: of a leap. Well, to some people, that maybe, but 546 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: then you you look back, you look at the pretenses 547 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: that have been used for war and things like the 548 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: Gulf of Tonkin. While although three thousand people were not 549 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,719 Speaker 1: killed in broad daylight and the Gulf of Tonkin incident, 550 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: you see these events which later turn out to not 551 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: be everything they were cracked up to. Be. What was 552 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: this like for you in terms of your own personal life? 553 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: What was the cost for you of doing this Where 554 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: you were saying in the middle of a war, the 555 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: government's fingerprints are on this, Potentially the cost wasn't terribly drastic. 556 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: I didn't. I had a couple of friends that, while 557 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: they didn't necessarily distance themselves or disappear from my life entirely, 558 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: they certainly didn't agree with it. What about their parents, parents? 559 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: Not a lot of interaction. I didn't really interact a 560 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: lot with my friends parents on the topic, because, again, 561 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: I was aware that it was a very about your 562 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: own family. My mom supportive from day one. You know, 563 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: I'm I'm her shining star and she will do anything 564 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: to support me. My father no idea. He's not really 565 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: been in my life. So um my grandmother staunch Bush 566 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: voting Republican. UH, thought it would be better if I 567 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: focused on my cartooning as opposed as opposed to my filmmaking. 568 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: So I see any conversations with her about that, they're 569 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: they're brief, but it's I mean, and she's she saw 570 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: like early early editions of it, you're making a movie. 571 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: Now I'm working on a couple of things. I'm wrapping 572 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: up a short film. I have a couple of film 573 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: about what it's about. A guy who wakes up in 574 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: a hotel room, has no recollection of how he got there. 575 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: He's dressed in a three piece suit. There's a gun 576 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: on the bedside table. He gets a call on his 577 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: cell phone and before he knows that he's beating someone 578 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: to death, and of course immediately realizes what he's doing 579 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: and stops. Um it's called Olsen and it's it has 580 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: shades of some real events that happened back in the fifties, 581 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: but the script has become its own entity. Now you're 582 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: making a film about coffee that I made that last year. 583 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: That was a documentary made when I was living down 584 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: an ocean beach. What's that film called buzz Kill? That 585 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: was just pretty much a fun project that me and 586 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: Wes Davis my buddy made. Um My, my buddy West 587 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: goes twenty one days without drinking coffee. I know, I 588 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: go from nine eleven to no coffee. Um, But it 589 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: was just a fun project. Like he we were hanging 590 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: out at the buddy's house and he mentioned it and 591 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: sounded funny. Did you feel that you needed that though, 592 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: because like in my work, if I find that scessory, 593 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: you can go from doing King Lear and the next 594 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: thing you want to do is like The Sunshine Boys 595 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, it was nice. It was nice to 596 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: do a documentary and to go into somewhere and be 597 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: like to take a break. Yeah, to take a break. 598 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: Do you find that sometimes was suffocating? It was suffocating. 599 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Even to this day, I still can't get 600 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: jobs because people were like, oh, I want to direct 601 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: a feature film, and I was like, okay, what didn't 602 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: you make that nine eleven documentary? No thanks. It's it's 603 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: tricky because lose change happened because I wanted to make 604 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: a film. It came. It was born out of the 605 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: passion of being a filmmaker, and then lose change took 606 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: over my life. And now it's almost like like like 607 00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: filmmaking is completely out of the equation now. But do 608 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: you feel for you personally? That's one of the greatest 609 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: impacts of the loss for you of you as a filmmaker. Well, 610 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: that's exactly as I get compliments on the film and 611 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: how it's made, but no one's ever like, here's some money, 612 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: let's make something. You know, No all I've ever had 613 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: is really just broken promises and phones that don't get answered. 614 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: And I've tried, and I've tried, and I've tried reaching. 615 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: Uh what funding right? It was? It was the cost 616 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: of gas. Food. So do you find that's the kind 617 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: of movie you're forced to make? Now? You have to 618 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: do films that are very very yeah, I mean even 619 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: my short. I mean, I just it's been like a 620 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: couple of hundred bucks and that's mostly just food and 621 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: you know, taking care of everybody, which is fine, I mean, 622 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: everybody has to get their start doing that. But to 623 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: be at this place where I have, I mean, Vanity 624 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: Ferret called it the first Internet blockbuster. You really don't 625 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: get much more of a glaring review than that, at 626 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: least at the time. I mean, the Vanity Fair article 627 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six came, it's such a great 628 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: time and it was such a positive piece. Have you 629 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: wanted to pull adult in Trombo? Have you ever been 630 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: ahead anybody that was willing to hire you and you 631 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: just didn't put your name on the film and you 632 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: use a different name. Note not even that you wouldn't 633 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: even know, You wouldn't do that, You wouldn't accept that. 634 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: I don't know at this point. I mean it depends 635 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: on the paycheck. What do you love about making film? 636 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: You're creating these little universes, and you know, you're you're 637 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,239 Speaker 1: inviting people into them for an hour or two at 638 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: a time. And you had this, you had this legitimate 639 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: opportunity to take people away for an hour or two 640 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: and to just suck them out of whatever's going on 641 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: in their life. And you're you're giving them escape, You're 642 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: giving them a vacation for an hour or two. And 643 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: directing right now is like in a superpower to me 644 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: that I'm slowly working my way up to, because it's 645 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: just like when you can get on a set and 646 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: when you can get these performances out of these people 647 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: that just go down in history. I mean, that's that's 648 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: art right there. And who were some filmmakers that you admire? 649 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: I hate to be cliche, but Kubrick, I mean Stanley Kubrick. 650 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: I mean that that man commanded such power with his films, 651 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: and he had most powerful He had such a way 652 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: with what he did, just the way his films came 653 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: together and the way he approached it. But also maybe 654 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: kind of a minor point for some people, but his 655 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: penchant for natural lighting. I Yeah, Kubrick to me was 656 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: someone who was who occupied his own zip code, so 657 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: to speak, in terms of films, in terms of a tone, 658 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 1: in a mood. And it doesn't surprise me that Kubrick 659 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: is your favorite director, one of your favorite directors, because Kubrick, 660 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: to me, is the ultimate truth or filmmaker. His films 661 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: are disturbingly truthful the way people behave, what they do, 662 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: the nakedness of their ambitions and their intentions. Yeah, if 663 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: Loose Change hadn't gone in the direction it went, if 664 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: it hadn't put you where you are now, what do 665 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: you think you'd be doing right now? That's a very 666 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: good question. Maybe I would be directing feature films, you know. 667 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: Maybe I would have a career. Maybe I have all 668 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: the things that I dream of right now. Or maybe 669 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: I wouldn't. Maybe I would still be an oneana trying 670 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: to figure my life out and trying to figure out 671 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: how to break through. It's tough to say, it really is. Um. 672 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: I do have those moments a lot where I think 673 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: about what if. M H. Dylan Avery still lives in 674 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, writing scripts and working towards his dream of 675 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: directing feature films. Loose Change is still available on the 676 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: Internet as well as Netflix. This is Alec Baldwin and 677 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: you're listening to Here's the Thing.