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Speaker 1: Hello there, Happy Wednesday. Welcome to another.

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Speaker 2: Episode of the Chuck Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Were give you a quick rundown of what we have today.

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Speaker 1: I have a new candidate for you to take a

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Speaker 1: listen to. It's a first time candidate for office named

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Speaker 1: Joel Willett. He's running in Kentucky for the US Senate.

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Speaker 1: He is a former essentially career national security person, worked

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Speaker 1: in the intelligence community and sort of gotten decided to

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Speaker 1: get involved in politics, and within a couple of days

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Speaker 1: of that, lost his security clearance via the political purge

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Speaker 1: that was orchestrated by the current head of the department,

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Speaker 1: the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsea Gabbart, and the whole

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Speaker 1: sort of the the political retribution aspect of the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration sort of going after the intelligence community and anybody

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Speaker 1: that he believes somehow that that was involved in surfacing

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Speaker 1: the concerns of the intelligence community about how certain unfriendly

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Speaker 1: nations to the United States seem to have access to

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Speaker 1: Trump's inner circle. He obviously still is angry about that.

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Speaker 1: But what's interesting about Joe Willett is that he's not,

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Speaker 1: in some ways not a typical candidate for office, and

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Speaker 1: I think and has an interesting background that will seem

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Speaker 1: quite familiar to people who read the book. He'll billiology

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Speaker 1: by jd Vance for what it's worth. But what was

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Speaker 1: really helpful I had conversation after the deal was done

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Speaker 1: in the shutdown was to hear how a Senate candidate

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Speaker 1: was responding to the shutdown, and just about like every

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Speaker 1: other Senate candidate, he was pretty negative on the deal,

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Speaker 1: while he wasn't personally trashing Chuck Schumer the way other

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Speaker 1: Senate candidates seem to be wanting to flex their anti

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Speaker 1: Schumer muscles, as you've seen in so many Democratic primaries

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Speaker 1: just in the last twenty four hours. I think he

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Speaker 1: does give voice to at least I think he's a

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Speaker 1: good example of explaining who the voters, the candidates think

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Speaker 1: that are running for office in primaries think they're talking to.

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Speaker 1: And that's I think probably the best way to understand

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Speaker 1: the initial reaction by those that are running for office,

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Speaker 1: those that are running in Democratic primaries, those that want

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Speaker 1: to be leaders within the Democratic Party, versus they have

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Speaker 1: reacted the way they've reacted.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: In some ways, you are what's your electorate, you know,

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Speaker 1: you tell me you're electorate, and I'll tell you your

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Speaker 1: position on the shutdown, right. And if you're electorate, if

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Speaker 1: it's an electorate where you're more worried about the general

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Speaker 1: the swing voter, you were probably on the side of

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Speaker 1: figuring out how to do a pause in the shutdown.

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Speaker 1: And if you were somebody who's got to worry more

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Speaker 1: about a primary voter, then you were going to be

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Speaker 1: emphatic against cutting this steel. And I think the reaction

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Speaker 1: is a reminder that this was not about healthcare, right.

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Speaker 2: This was about.

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Speaker 1: Taking on finally confronting Trump on something right, and the party.

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party hadn't done any decent confrontation.

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Speaker 2: Really.

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Speaker 1: A few governors had in trying to fight back on

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Speaker 1: National Guard efforts and things like that, but there hadn't

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Speaker 1: been a real showdown between the party and Trump, and

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Speaker 1: the shutdown provided that and politically in the last forty days,

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Speaker 1: it energized the base of the Democratic Party and they

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Speaker 1: felt good about that energy and it because the elections

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Speaker 1: went well last week. It can it seemed to provide

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Speaker 1: the confirmation you know, a sort of form of confirmation bias. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this shutdown seems to be working. Look at how well

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Speaker 1: our candidates did. Why give up this this idea now

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Speaker 1: when at the end of the day, you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: things can turn quickly if you're not careful. And already

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Speaker 1: some polling a surfaced about how as this shutdown was

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Speaker 1: impacting more and more Americans, blame was starting to get

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Speaker 1: shared more and more between both parties. Yes, Republicans were

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Speaker 1: taking the run of the blame. Yes, Mike Johnson and

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump were actually making it easier for Democrats to

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Speaker 1: politically win the shutdown by their own maneuvers and their

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Speaker 1: own decision making there. But ultimately, as I've stated in

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Speaker 1: a few other places that I've spoken in the last

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Speaker 1: forty eight hours, there is a large chunk of voters

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Speaker 1: in the middle who don't pay attention to day to

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Speaker 1: day massinations, but that will pay attention when the proverbial

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Speaker 1: government toilet is clogged, you know, and not being able

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Speaker 1: to travel around Thanksgiving at a time when we have

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Speaker 1: almost no choice but to use their airplanes in order

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Speaker 1: to get where we want to get in a short

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Speaker 1: weekend was a way that you were suddenly going to

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Speaker 1: start impacting people that don't normally pay attention to the

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Speaker 1: day to day machinations, and that actually can become long

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Speaker 1: term more politically damaging than anything you think is going

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Speaker 1: for you in the short term. So that's my basic

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Speaker 1: way to explain the situation we're in.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: What's funny here is leave it to the Democrats that

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Speaker 1: come across. As you know, they're essentially divided over tactics.

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Speaker 1: They're not divided over any issue. They all believe in

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Speaker 1: this healthcare issue. They all believe Trump needs to be confronted.

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Speaker 1: They all believe they've got to shift their messaging to

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Speaker 1: cost of living issues. Right, So this is a party

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Speaker 1: that is fighting over tactics. You know, do they have

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Speaker 1: the right leaders? They probably don't. Just changing leaders change

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Speaker 1: the debate on tactics. I don't know if it really does,

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Speaker 1: but I will say this, once you have lost the

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Speaker 1: trust of the people you're trying to lead, you probably

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Speaker 1: ought to leave, right, you know. And and the best

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Speaker 1: thing for the party would be if Chuck Schumer went

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Speaker 1: out on his own, not forcing more groups to come

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Speaker 1: out calling for his resignation and all this stuff. But ultimately,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it changes. You know, you're still

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Speaker 1: going to have a leader that's got to be thinking about, Hey,

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Speaker 1: there's the base wants one thing, but you still got

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Speaker 1: to appeal to swing voters if you actually want to

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Speaker 1: win enough seats to actually be in charge of governing something.

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Speaker 1: So I think that tension would exist whether it was Schumer,

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Speaker 1: whether Brian Schatz is there, whether it's Chris Murphy, whether

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Speaker 1: it's Amy Klobashar, whether it's Patty Murray. Right, we could

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Speaker 1: come up, you know, And I think if you know,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those moments where if Schumer just

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Speaker 1: decided in the next week to sort of you know what,

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Speaker 1: all right, you know, I'm not wanted here, I'll take

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Speaker 1: a step back. My gut is Patty Murray would replace him,

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Speaker 1: because she'd be seen as a quote unquote caretaker majority leader.

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Speaker 1: She's at this point the senior most member of the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Senate, and nobody would cross her right, and she

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Speaker 1: really has the respect of sort of all wings of

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Speaker 1: the party. I think she'd be seeing the original mom

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Speaker 1: and tennis shoes, you know, as she ran as a

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Speaker 1: sort of a populist candidate of her day in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety two when she first came on the national scene.

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Speaker 1: I think she would be seen as somebody that would

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Speaker 1: would be less of a public face for the party.

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Speaker 1: And in some ways, I think many senators wouldn't mind

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Speaker 1: that and would likely embrace that. But let's be realistic,

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Speaker 1: you may not see any change in the short term.

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Speaker 2: To me.

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Speaker 1: The you know, while it's easy to cover this tactical

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Speaker 1: split inside the Democratic Party because it's sort of easy

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Speaker 1: to do. It's easy to create a cable news segment

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Speaker 1: on it. It's easy to find people to criticize, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of an easy debate to have. It's not

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Speaker 1: really that big of a divide because it's not over

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Speaker 1: some sort of fundamental ideology ideological disagreement, you know, where

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Speaker 1: for instance, like things with Mamdani, those are fundamental ideological

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Speaker 1: disagreements about you know, how involved government should be in

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Speaker 1: the economy. That's that's that's a larger divide that I

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Speaker 1: think doesn't really get dealt with in the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: until the presidential primaries take shape. But I'd tell you,

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Speaker 1: even as everybody's focused on the dem divide here, don't

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Speaker 1: take your eye off the ball of a growing Republican divide.

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Speaker 1: I think that is coming. I think that right now,

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Speaker 1: if you're a Republican elected official in Congress, you should

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Speaker 1: You're trying to figure out what do I do when

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Speaker 1: the leader of the party is not accepting reality. And

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's inability to accept the reality that this economy

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Speaker 1: sucks for a lot of his supporters is going to

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Speaker 1: cause a much bigger problem for the Republican Party than

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Speaker 1: anything the Democratic Party is going through at the moment,

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Speaker 1: because ultimately, because they're in the minority and because they're

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Speaker 1: in the opposition, you know, I mean, they're going to

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Speaker 1: have a unity of message, They're going to have a

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Speaker 1: unity of focus. They may disagree on how to deal

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Speaker 1: with Trump in the moment, but they're not going to

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Speaker 1: disagree on how to court the voters in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: That's a divide that I think that is not the

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Speaker 1: case on the Republican side of the aisle. As this

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Speaker 1: economy weakens for those without money and essentially with those

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Speaker 1: about real savings. And that's what we're seeing here right.

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Speaker 1: This is a This is the very definition of a

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Speaker 1: trickle down economy where Donald Trump is hoping that the bang,

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Speaker 1: the stock market success is going to somehow trickle down

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Speaker 1: and help everybody else. There's not a lot of evidence

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Speaker 1: that that ever works. You can just go back one

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Speaker 1: hundred years and see how that worked out. The last

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Speaker 1: time we sort of tried to put together an economy

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Speaker 1: where government and big business fused itself together like it

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Speaker 1: did in the early parts of the industrial and the

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Speaker 1: Industrial Age.

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Speaker 2: That didn't end well.

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Speaker 1: We got a great depression, and then finally government decided,

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Speaker 1: the people decided, hey, they wanted government. They wanted more

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Speaker 1: guard rails on big business, more guardrails on the economy

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Speaker 1: than what we had at the time. And I have

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Speaker 1: a feeling we're going to end up in a similar

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Speaker 1: situation where we're going to have a downturn caused by

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing, this fusion of big tech and government,

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Speaker 1: and that is going to awake awoke in a bunch

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Speaker 1: of people who are going to want more guardrails put

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Speaker 1: on our economy, necessarily leaving capitalism, but something more akin

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Speaker 1: to what the two Roosevelts fought for, both Teddy and

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Speaker 1: Franklin in their very different ways. But I did get

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions on the shutdown, so I decided

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Speaker 1: that before we get to the interview that I would

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Speaker 1: answer all the shutdown related q and as in this

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Speaker 1: part of the podcast, we'll have our individual will it

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Speaker 1: then I'll do my top five list this week. It's

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Speaker 1: where I the top five Senate seats most likely to flip.

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Speaker 1: It's let's just say the top five has changed. Just

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Speaker 1: like in college football, what the top five was at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of October is a lot different than what

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Speaker 1: the top five is at the beginning of November. So

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Speaker 1: goes my list of top five most likely most vulnerable

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Speaker 1: Senate seats in twenty twenty six. But before we get

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Speaker 1: to all that, and I'll do some q and as

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Speaker 1: on other topics that were not shut down related. So

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Speaker 1: we'll begin with this. This comes from Tim, and he asks,

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Speaker 1: I don't I understand why the Democrats are being blamed

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Speaker 1: for the shutdown. If the Speaker will not convene the House,

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Speaker 1: how can the Dems vote against it? Also, if the

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Speaker 1: Republicans control the House, why can't they just.

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Speaker 2: Vote to pass it.

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Speaker 1: I think too many times that reporter. Too many times

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Speaker 1: reporters assume that people know the cause of the most

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Speaker 1: basic facts about an issue, or maybe this was reported

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the shutdown, so they don't need

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Speaker 1: to reiterate those facts. I think it has helpful to

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Speaker 1: remind people periodically of those basic facts. Thanks Tim, Tim,

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. This is a pet peeve of mine.

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Speaker 1: I talk about this to new journalists or those folks

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Speaker 1: in journalism school where I remind people because I learned

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Speaker 1: this from interacting with viewers during my time at Meet

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Speaker 1: the Press. Is how often a viewer, particularly a first

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Speaker 1: generation American, would come up to me and say that

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Speaker 1: they watch Meet the Press to sort of understand how

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Speaker 1: the American government works. And every time I would get

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Speaker 1: a response like that, it would remind me that, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're in the education business first. That's first and foremost

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Speaker 1: what a journalist is. They're educating the public. We shouldn't

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Speaker 1: forget that. And you know, I had a viewer one time,

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Speaker 1: I think it was somebody on social media one time

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Speaker 1: respond you know, somebody was lamenting the fact that people

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Speaker 1: didn't know that there were nine members of the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 1: or how all that worked? Somebody said how often do

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Speaker 1: you put it in your stories? And I thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: that person's right. We sometimes don't reiterate basic facts about

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Speaker 1: government because we go through this well, people already know that,

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Speaker 1: or the people that are paying attention to this story

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Speaker 1: are already going to know those things. And you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: what about the Joe Demaje. You know, there was a

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Speaker 1: great saying by Joe Demaggio. He used to say he

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Speaker 1: played hard every game because he thought that there might

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Speaker 1: be somebody in the stands who was coming to see

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Speaker 1: him for the very first time. And guess what, there's

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Speaker 1: somebody reading your story. There's somebody listening to my podcast,

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Speaker 1: there's somebody you know, reading your commentary.

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Speaker 2: For the very first time.

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Speaker 1: And if they don't understand it, they're not going to

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Speaker 1: to read you again, right, or they may not be

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Speaker 1: as they may not follow the topic you're trying to

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Speaker 1: get them to follow because you didn't help them understand

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Speaker 1: how it works. So I look, I believe in this,

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Speaker 1: you know, I look at my college football writers. They

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Speaker 1: spend a lot of time explaining how the college.

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Speaker 2: Football playoff works.

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Speaker 1: So college football fans all know how the college football

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Speaker 1: playoff works. But it's not because they went out to

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Speaker 1: look forward. It's because the new stories and the news

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Speaker 1: commentators and ESPN in particular constantly wants to remind people

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Speaker 1: how it works. Now they have an incentive, they're trying

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Speaker 1: to make a bigger deal out of it. Well, we

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Speaker 1: ought to take that same premise there. So you're asking

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Speaker 1: why did the Democrats get Why should the Democrats get

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Speaker 1: blames to their shutdown? Well, it was technically Democrats that

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Speaker 1: withheld just enough votes where the Continuing Resolution to keep

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Speaker 1: the government open couldn't pass the Senate. Now, in the House,

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Speaker 1: Mike Johnson got a party line vote and he passed

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Speaker 1: the continuing Resolution and in the House, so what they

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Speaker 1: did is he passed that bill and then they want

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Speaker 1: to This is a case where the House wanted to

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Speaker 1: jam the Senate and they didn't want to. And his

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Speaker 1: thesis was, I'm not even going to come. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to convene the House until the Senate deals with

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Speaker 1: the bill that we gave them. And we gave them

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Speaker 1: a bill to keep the government open. It's up to

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Speaker 1: them to get that bill passed. So this is the

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Speaker 1: whole the House passed its version. So no, you're right,

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Speaker 1: the House didn't didn't convene while the government was shut down.

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Speaker 1: But what Johnson's thesis was they didn't need to because

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Speaker 1: there was no legislation. Now, why else did he keep

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Speaker 1: him out, Well, because he didn't want his members, you know,

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Speaker 1: board showing up on cable TV saying things that would

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Speaker 1: cause them political pain.

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Speaker 2: Et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: But it was also a tactic, and this is something

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Speaker 1: that happens. You know, there's there's always a joke in

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Speaker 1: Congress that you know that the real divide in Congress

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Speaker 1: is not Democrats versus Republicans, it's the House versus the Senate.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, the House was essentially jamming the

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Speaker 1: Senate and jamming John Thune. So it was up to

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Speaker 1: John Thune, who had fifty three Republican senators, actually fifty two,

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Speaker 1: because Rand Paul indicated he was going to vote against

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Speaker 1: this deal, he had to go find eight Democrats. So

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Speaker 1: in that sense, this is why in theory, because it

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Speaker 1: needed sixty votes when Democrats withheld their votes, unless the

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Speaker 1: Republicans are willing to get rid of the filibuster, which

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Speaker 1: was something Donald Trump talked about then the only way

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Speaker 1: the government could get reopened is if eight Democrats joined

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Speaker 1: fifty two Republicans to reopen the government. So I think

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Speaker 1: what you're right about is every time that the story

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Speaker 1: was reported that would not be explained at the top.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's a bad habit professional journalists, particularly

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Speaker 1: Washington journalists, have come. I always say that a lot

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Speaker 1: of times Washington reports for Washington or producers produced segments

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Speaker 1: for producers, they don't think about sort of are we

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Speaker 1: educating somebody who's tuning in for the very first time?

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Speaker 1: And you know, in that sense, I think that's something

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Speaker 1: that we all need to do better on. In this way,

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Speaker 1: I love the podcast format where I can feel like

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Speaker 1: I'm not I don't have some sort of time constraint

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Speaker 1: where I have to take a shortcut on something because

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Speaker 1: the main thing I need to convey needs a certain

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Speaker 1: amount of time to explain, and I don't want to

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Speaker 1: take away from that by having to explain the basics

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Speaker 1: and yet not explaining the basics all the time is

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Speaker 1: what makes politics inaccessible to people. And I've always said

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Speaker 1: my real goal, and I've had this goal ever since

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Speaker 1: I entered journalism is, and political journalism is. I love politics,

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Speaker 1: and my job is to explain it in such a

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Speaker 1: way that it's more accessible to people. You know, there

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Speaker 1: there was another person who used to go out of

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Speaker 1: his way to talk about the Gang of five hundred

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Speaker 1: and maybe politics inaccessible and would claim that politics was

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Speaker 1: an exclusive club and only those in the know understood it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's people that want politics to be that way, so

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Speaker 1: that way they are not subject to what the actual

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Speaker 1: democracy wants, small d democracy wants, and so in that sense,

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Speaker 1: I'm a populous when it comes to information, and I

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Speaker 1: think we need to make politics more accessible, more understandable,

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Speaker 1: so more people understand how much it's impacting their lives.

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Speaker 1: I hope that helped you as to understand why in

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Speaker 1: this case democrats had skin in the gament.

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Speaker 2: There's a reason.

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Speaker 1: Results matter more than promises, just like there's a reason.

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Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. For

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Speaker 1: the last thirty five years, they've recovered twenty five billion

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Speaker 1: dollars for more than half a million clients. It includes

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Speaker 1: cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing, just hoping

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Speaker 1: to get away with paying as little as possible. And

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Speaker 1: Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact, in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: one client was awarded twenty six million dollars, which was

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Speaker 1: a staggering forty times the amount that the insurance company

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Speaker 1: originally offered. That original offer six hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So with more than one thousand lawyers across the country,

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Speaker 1: they know how to deliver for everyday people. If you're injured,

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Speaker 1: you need a lawyer, You need somebody to get your back.

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Speaker 1: Check out for the People dot com, Slash podcast or

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Speaker 1: Dow Pound Law Pound five to two nine law on your

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Speaker 1: cell phone. And remember all law firms are not the same.

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Speaker 1: So check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free

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Speaker 1: unless they win. All right, next question comes from Brian

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Speaker 1: in New England. Right, So, I can't help but notice

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Speaker 1: all of the liberal political commentators seem to think they

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Speaker 1: have lost the shutdown fight. Likewise, all of the conservative

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Speaker 1: political commentators believe they somehow won the shutdown fight, assuming

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Speaker 1: no last minute silliness by Senator Ran Paul. Yet all

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Speaker 1: of the more moderate political commentator seemed to paint a

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Speaker 1: vast different picture as to who won and lost, and

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Speaker 1: most seem to think Democrats got most out of the shutdown.

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Speaker 1: So this brings up a good question, how do you

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Speaker 1: win a shutdown fight? How do you know who won

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Speaker 1: the shutdown fight? Can you even win a shutdown fight?

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Speaker 1: Or is it really just a lose lose lose for

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Speaker 1: everyone involved? Or at the end of the day, is

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Speaker 1: who won or lost?

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Speaker 2: A shutdown?

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Speaker 1: All just vibes and fuzzy feelings anyway? To me, it

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Speaker 1: kind of feels like the old whose line is at

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Speaker 1: any way?

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Speaker 2: TV? Show?

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Speaker 1: Everything is made up and the points don't seem to matter. Well,

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Speaker 1: look this is you know, if you really want to

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Speaker 1: wind me up. The entire shutdown process is a manufactured

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Speaker 1: political circus. The idea that the most important government on

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Speaker 1: the face of the earth.

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Speaker 2: Has a.

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Speaker 1: Has a bug in it that allows for parts of

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Speaker 1: the government to just simply shut down when there is

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Speaker 1: a political dispute over funding levels is got to be

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Speaker 1: one of the dumber things anybody does. The idea that

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Speaker 1: you know, I just think that the legal interpretations and

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Speaker 1: I went through this for those of you that wanted

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Speaker 1: to go off, you know, I am, but let me

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Speaker 1: just tell you, I am furious that there is not

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Speaker 1: a single effing member of Congress in the center of

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Speaker 1: the House that is rallying around the idea that we

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Speaker 1: need to prevent shutdowns from ever happening again. It is

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Speaker 1: absurd that we are hiring people to be air traffic

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Speaker 1: controllers and part of the process is, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: every couple of years there's going to be a political

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Speaker 1: fight and you're not going to get paid for about

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Speaker 1: a month or two. Are you okay with that? What

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Speaker 1: kind of circus are we running here? I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: just you know, deciding to run to intentionally create a

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Speaker 1: shit show government. It's stupid, it's unnecessary, and it shouldn't be.

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Speaker 1: It's dumb, it's it's and it all. The only people

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Speaker 1: that benefit from a shutdown are elected officials who are

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Speaker 1: trying to make a name for themselves. You asked who

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Speaker 1: wins in a shutdown? Individuals win, No party wins. Nobody

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Speaker 1: likes the result of the shutdown at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, everybody collectively hates the process of it, right,

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Speaker 1: But the winners are individuals. You know, Ted Cruz, you know,

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Speaker 1: So take the twenty thirteen shutdown. Republicans quote unquote are

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Speaker 1: seen as having lost that shutdown, right, because politically they did.

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Speaker 1: If it wasn't for the shutdown, Republicans would have won

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Speaker 1: a governor seat in Virginia that year, and instead Democrats

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Speaker 1: won the governor seat. So you could look at just

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Speaker 1: sort of the tactics and say up, Republicans lost and

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Speaker 1: Ted Cruz was unpayable. Yet Ted Cruz built a political following.

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Speaker 1: Ted Cruz was trying to run for president in twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen and build a national following. So it worked for

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Speaker 1: Ted Cruz. And that's who the shutdowns are for. They're

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Speaker 1: for partisan actors, pure and simple, to try to make

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Speaker 1: a name for themselves. That's so the only people that

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Speaker 1: have ever come outquote unquote ahead. Right, it becomes about

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Speaker 1: who can raise the most money off of the silliness

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Speaker 1: of the shutdown. And I'm sorry, I just think the

436
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: idea that it's a practice that is somehow allowed and

437
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 1: the only the only reason to have it is to

438
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 1: figure out a way to bring more attention to a

439
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: funding dispute. Guess what, perhaps we shouldn't put three hundred

440
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: and fifty million people in the crosshairs of a of

441
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: a political disagreement over funding levels. That seems like a

442
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: waste of a superpower's time. It actually makes us more

443
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: vulnerable as a nation on national security. It is certainly

444
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: a huge sign of weakness. And again there's you know,

445
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: so a responsible democracy and a responsible government wouldn't put

446
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: put us in a situation where we can just easily

447
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: have a couple of people decide that the government is

448
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: just going to close its doors. And then, of course

449
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: we've exempted so many aspects of the shutdown that if

450
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 1: the initial idea of the shutdown was to you know,

451
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: it was going to be so painful that everybody wouldn't

452
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: want it to be be for more than a day

453
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: or two. But when you take away you know, when

454
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: you decide, well, social security isn't going to be a

455
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: part of it, and we'll exempt military pay, and we'll

456
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: exempt this, and we'll exempt that, then it becomes easier

457
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: to do the political theater. So I have to say, I,

458
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: as a as a voter who would like to have

459
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: less dysfunction in our politics, am sorry that there's not

460
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: a single elected member of Congress Democratic Republican currently advocating

461
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: a no shutdowns bill. They've existed in the past. Where

462
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: are they now where are they today? Instead, everybody wants

463
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: to perform for the frickin' basis of each party because

464
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: of how stupidly we've gerrymandered everything and our partisan primaries,

465
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: all of those things, right, we have all of our

466
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: incentive struck or for politicians to only pay attention to

467
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: the base. And it's just so the people that hate

468
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: this shutdown stuff the most are the ones that aren't

469
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: partisan activists. And it doesn't seem like there's a single

470
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: person in the in Congress that represents the constituency that

471
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: just doesn't want the goddamn toilet clogged purposely, and instead

472
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: this is what we have. So I don't know if

473
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: I answer your question right, I don't think anybody won

474
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: the shutdown fight. And if you're wondering to me, you know,

475
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: it is one of those where the only time anybody

476
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: gains from it is if they're trying to if it's

477
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: somebody individually trying to build their own following for some

478
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: sort of national political purpose, you know. And the best

479
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: example of that Ted Cruise twenty thirteen. He shut down

480
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: I was seen as a loser, but actually gave Ted

481
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: Cruise a constituency, all right, next question comes from Kenny

482
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: from Long Islanding Rights. My question for you about the

483
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: deal that seems to have been struck. It seemed to

484
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: me that the Democrats traded their leverage for a campaign

485
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: at the Republicans will not have to take the tough vote,

486
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 1: but will inevitably vote down the Obamacare subsidies. And that's

487
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 1: about it. Snap resumes, payments resumed, no one gets fired.

488
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: But all that is the standard course of events for

489
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: the end of a shutdown. The only thing Senator Schumer

490
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: seems to have extracted here is a tough vote. Am

491
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: I reading this correctly? If so, why on earth would

492
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: he have fought this hard and held out this long

493
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: only to give up and walk away with nothing to

494
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 1: show for it. Lastly, I agree and disagree with your

495
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: assessment about President Trump entering this lame duck era. I

496
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: agree that's the biggest takeaway for the shutdown resolution. To me, though,

497
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: it's not because of the defiance. It's because they negotiated

498
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: a solution without them in the Senate. At least, the

499
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: President disengaged and made it easy for this to play out,

500
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: but ultimately Senator thoonstruck the deal. I love the new

501
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: format and I feel as though I'm learning so much

502
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: more about the inside game when it comes to politics.

503
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: Thank you for the scoop, all right, Kenny. I appreciate

504
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: the construction constructive critique there on that front. It's interesting.

505
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: I guess I could word it, you know, and again

506
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,239
Speaker 1: I would word it differently. I don't think there's a

507
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: cave here. I think there is. I think Warnock said it.

508
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: He said, if you're going to say that the Democratic

509
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: Party seems to care about those on snap benefits more

510
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: than the Republican Party cares about then I think he said,

511
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: guilty is charged, right, that that's not a And I

512
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: think if you're you know, again, a better leader and

513
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: a better communicator would not have would not have signaled

514
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,479
Speaker 1: that this is over, would signal it.

515
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 2: You know what.

516
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: I think we've we've gotten more people aware of this

517
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: healthcare issue. We're sorry that the president wants to irresponsibly

518
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: punish people that have nothing and weaponize the FAA and

519
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: all of this, and so we're not going to let

520
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: him do that. So we're going to take a pause

521
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: in this over the next two months. We're going to

522
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: make sure people can travel for the holidays and come January,

523
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: there's another vote to reopen the government and there's Obamacare subsidies. Okay,

524
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: so I don't think they gave away any leverage. I

525
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: think they still have leverage in January to essentially shut

526
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: down government again if they want to, if these Obamacare

527
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: subsidies don't get passed for a year. I think I

528
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: think that there's going to be a majority of the

529
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: US House that votes for these Obamacare subsidies. Not a

530
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: majority of Republicans, but a majority of the House. I

531
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: think you will see somewhere between thirty and forty Republicans

532
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: who do this. I think you will see ten to

533
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: fifteen Senate Republicans wanting to be for this. So I

534
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: think it's going to happen. I think the results of

535
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: the I mean, I think the biggest impact on the

536
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: healthcare subsidies was the twenty five election results. The fact

537
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: that it was a romp, the fact that cost the

538
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: living issues and Democrats didn't even have the healthcare issue

539
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: yet and it was working for them. We already know

540
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: how well healthcare works as an opposition issue when you're

541
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: messing with it. We just saw it in twenty eighteen.

542
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: That benefited the Democrats and back in twenty ten when

543
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: it benefited the Republicans. Anytime you mess with the status

544
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: quo of healthcare, the party messing with the status quo

545
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: gets punished, and in this case that's going to be

546
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: now the Republicans. And so I guess I don't accept

547
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: the premise that they got rid of.

548
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: Any of their leverage.

549
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: And I think this is why I could argue, this

550
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: is why Schumer should go, because he's a terrible communicator

551
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: and he couldn't communicate.

552
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 2: That they won.

553
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: They won if you want him, you know, and he's

554
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: trying now. But he just doesn't have credibility with anybody anymore.

555
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 2: Right.

556
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: It's like, like I said, I keep comparing Schumer to

557
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick. They used to have credibility

558
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: with the players they coached. Now they don't anymore.

559
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: That happens.

560
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: It happens in every walk of life. It happens to

561
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: political leaders all the time. Time there's a moment when they

562
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: have uber leverage over the entire party, and there's moments

563
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: where nobody will listen to them.

564
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: George W.

565
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: Bush had so much influence over his party for a

566
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: period of time until he had no influence over his

567
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: party for a period of time. Right, it is political

568
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: capital is elusive. When you have it, you better spend

569
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: it because if you try to save it, it'll disappear.

570
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: So I guess I'm not I think they could have

571
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: communicated this in such a way where they could have

572
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: been seen as the adult in the room and not

573
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: giving up their fight on healthcare, because technically they've given

574
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: themselves opportunities before the State of the Union in February

575
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: to make this a showdown vote one more time. All right,

576
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: last question comes from David Crowder, and then we'll get

577
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: to the interview with Joe Willett. I like your work

578
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: in thoughtfulness. Thank you saw your podcast at sam First

579
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: Info and Jay Jones came out in mid October. Virginia

580
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: begins early voting mid September. You get my point. Second,

581
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: the shutdown argument pre pandemic. Some twelve millions participated in

582
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: the bill. Their subsidies remain with premium increases. It's not

583
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: a big deal. The big deal is the twelve million

584
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: who enrolled post pandemic who did not qualify financially for

585
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: pre pandemic for subsidies they lose the subsidies. Is that

586
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: disconnect worth shutting down the government.

587
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: I don't know.

588
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: Seems like some form of a subsidy could be agreed upon. Finally,

589
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: the tax breaks that were scheduled to expire were extended.

590
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: The differences the subsidies weren't scheduled to expire. It's all crap, David.

591
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: You've summarized the poor legislative process quite well, right. You

592
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: know the fact that we have such a dysfunctional way

593
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: that we make laws now, and we have such distrust

594
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: of the two parties that they there's always a weird

595
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: poison pills in different ways.

596
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: Right.

597
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: The subsidies, they can't you know. Did Democrats want those

598
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: subsidies in perpetuity?

599
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 2: They did?

600
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: Could they not get enough votes to get them without

601
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: putting some sort of time stamp on it. They couldn't

602
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: dinal with the tax cut, right, they couldn't. Trump couldn't

603
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: get it permanent, so instead he had an expiration date

604
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: on it, hoping that the expiration would serve as a

605
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: fear of a tax hike and then that somehow would

606
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: get people to renew them. The Bush tax cuts work

607
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: this way, right, these ten year increments. We do this

608
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: sort of funny business accounting when it comes to the

609
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: impact on the deficit with these funny numbers with the

610
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: Congressional Budget Office and these estimates that are all that

611
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: are all just sort of make assumptions that nobody can

612
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: assume when it comes to the actual state of the economy.

613
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: But we make these deficit projections in such a way

614
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: that it encourages these sort of false expiration dates. Right,

615
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: some will have them, some will don't. They're usually time

616
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: to make it politically difficult to somehow not extend the deadline,

617
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: whether it's on a on a tax rate, or whether

618
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: it's on a subsidy or whatever it is. So you know,

619
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: this goes to the this is what you get when

620
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: you when you don't have a functioning committee process in Congress.

621
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: And not to get really dorky here, but essentially when

622
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: we totally polarized the US Houses, which which really began

623
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: sort of late eighties, early nineties, right, and you know,

624
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: there's those on the right blame Jim Right and the Democrats,

625
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: those on the left blame Newt Gingridge and the Republicans.

626
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: I think I think sort of there was there was

627
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: certainly power plays that Jim Right made that new Gingridge

628
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: then emulated and took to took to an took even

629
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: further that ultimately destroyed the committee process and the destruction

630
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: of the congressional committee process both in the House and

631
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: the Senate. Is why we get such poorly written legislation

632
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: which used, so I think eloquently pointed out with the

633
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: way you worded your question, the fact that the question

634
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: was a bit confusing. I don't put on you, I

635
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: put on Congress because this is how they legislate now,

636
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: with these sort of weird expiration dates. It's all designed

637
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: to create sort of political poison, almost almost like these

638
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: sort of delayed bombs that suddenly explode and you have

639
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: no choice but to continue a policy that maybe you

640
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: were never in favor of. You know, Obama didn't want to.

641
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: Obama ran on getting rid of the Bush tax cuts.

642
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: Turns out he couldn't get rid of them because of

643
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: what kind of impact it would have had on a

644
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: number of people seeing their tax bills go up, and

645
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: he didn't want to politically put himself in that situation.

646
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: He had made a pledge not to raise taxes on

647
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: anybody over I think it was four hundred thousand dollars.

648
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: So the new line that they drew on that. So ultimately,

649
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, someday we're going to have a Speaker of

650
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 1: the House and a Senate Majority leader that actually wants

651
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: to make the legislative branch great again. But until that

652
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: time comes, we're going to continue to have this poor,

653
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: horribly dysfunctional legislative process that we've now seen that for

654
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: many of you feels like the normal way Congress works,

655
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 1: because trust me, this was not the intent. How Congress

656
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: has worked the last thirty years is not the way

657
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: that Congress was intended to work in the previous two

658
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty years. All right, So with that, there's

659
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: all the shutdown, Q and a's that I got. We're

660
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: going to take a pause when we come back, meet

661
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: a candidate for Kentucky Senate, basically somebody who I think

662
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: was a political independent who chose to pick a side.

663
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: Here's motivation, how he did it. I'm always intrigued by

664
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: first time candidates because I think they come they literally

665
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: come at things with a fresh set of eyes, and

666
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: I think it's always important to hear what a fresh

667
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 1: set of eyes has to say about the current political system.

668
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: So with that, we'll take a break.

669
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: See on the other side. This episode of the Chuck

670
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,600
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Speaker 2: Well, joining me now is a.

700
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: I guess you could argue a new politician to the scene.

701
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: His name's Joel Willett. He's running for the US Senate

702
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: in Kentucky.

703
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 2: He got on my radar.

704
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: He's kind of out of nowhere. Where Telsea Gabbert took

705
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: away a whole bunch of people's national security clearances, even

706
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 1: folks who were had served in the intelligence community were

707
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: in the private sector but still had some, you know,

708
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: some clearances because that is a normal thing we've done

709
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: in our government for decades.

710
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: Uh.

711
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: And there appeared to be some sort of connection. The

712
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: minute mister Willett agreed to think about running for office,

713
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: Suddenly it seemed as if the government decided to give

714
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: him another headline in some ways. I think they may

715
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: have even given him an assistance with getting more attention

716
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: in some ways for his candidacy. But he's all so,

717
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: you know, we want to highlight interesting first time candidates

718
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: who are not coming from sort of a typical place,

719
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: hard left, hard right, things like that, and Joe Willett

720
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: got on my radar and he agreed to sit down.

721
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: Mister Willett, nice to meet you. Yeah, thank you, Chuck.

722
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: So let's start with how you got into service. Look,

723
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: we're taping just before Veterans Day. You're a veteran. I'm

724
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: a huge advocate. That feels as if that the people

725
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: best equipped to what I call to I'm looking for

726
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: more pastors for patriotism in this country that I think

727
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: the military community and the intelligence community, where you have

728
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: to be Team America before your Team Red or Team

729
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: Blue is probably as good of a place to find

730
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: these pastors for patriotism as you can find. But tell

731
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 1: me how you got what got you into service?

732
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: Yeah? I love that term. Atn't heard it before, so

733
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: I'm probably going to steal. Well, I'm using it over

734
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 2: and over.

735
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: I'm obviously a little proud of it, so I'm going

736
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: to use it, probably too much.

737
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: But you know, well, my grandmother took me to church

738
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: every weekend growing up and was heavily involved with my

739
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: church for a long time, so it resonates. So yeah,

740
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: thank you for the opportunity to tell my story. I

741
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 2: am Joel Willett running for the US and in Kentucky.

742
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 2: Your listeners can catch all the parts of the story

743
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: at joelfer Kentucky dot com if I missed something here.

744
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: But I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky, and my path

745
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 2: to service was perhaps common in some ways and uncommon

746
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 2: in others. My dad was a Union iron worker. He

747
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: was a Golden Gloves boxer. My mom worked in hospitals

748
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 2: taking care of people. But we had some Kentucky struggles

749
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 2: growing up. The lights didn't always come on when I

750
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: got home from school. I learned, you know, early in

751
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 2: my adolescence that both of my parents were struggling with

752
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 2: addictions to opioids, and I would eventually lose my father

753
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 2: to a fenteral overdose in twenty nineteen. It wasn't just

754
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: my family, it was you know, tens of thousands of

755
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: Kentucky families over the past couple of decades. But I

756
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 2: was one of the lucky ones because I had incredible

757
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: grandparents on both sides of my family. I had my

758
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 2: grandmother's church, but I also had the institutions of this

759
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: country public education, our military, our civil service, some of

760
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 2: these things that I believed to be some of the

761
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 2: greatest tools for achievement and economic mobility in the world.

762
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: And when the attacks of nine to eleven happened, I

763
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: was a senior in high school and a few months

764
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: after that, after months of begging my mom to sign

765
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 2: the paperwork, she relented and did and I joined the

766
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 2: Army National Guard when I was seventeen years old, and

767
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: I served in the Military Police Corps. I was able

768
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: to graduate from the University of Louisville and from the

769
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 2: University of Kentucky, and that launched a career. Once I

770
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: left the Army in the intelligence community, I spent some

771
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 2: time with the FBI working on canterterrorism and then was

772
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 2: recruited into the Central Intelligence Agency into the Director to Operations,

773
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 2: where I represented this country here at home and abroad

774
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 2: in the Balkans, Baltic, Southeast Asia, Western European capitals. I

775
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 2: speak Russian. Do without what you will, and you know,

776
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: finished my last year in government in the White House

777
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 2: Situation Room as a nonpartisan civil servant, there to provide

778
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 2: intelligence and crisis management support to the president who was

779
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: then President Obama and Vice President Biden. There to serve

780
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: the presidency, not the president, and the true spirit of

781
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 2: our civil service. I left government twenty fifteen in part

782
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 2: to be able to take care of a lot of

783
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 2: my family that remained in Kentucky. Went into the private

784
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 2: sector have since been running businesses that have put hundreds

785
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: of people to work every day. So, Chuck, I truly

786
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 2: got to live my American dream and have been living

787
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 2: that life as a private citizen for for some time now,

788
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: and it's been increasingly hard to set on the sidelines

789
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 2: and watch working families across this country, working families like

790
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 2: the one that I grew up in, getting steamrolled by

791
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 2: a political and economic system that I think continues to

792
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 2: treat them as acceptable losses. So, as you said, I

793
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 2: started exploring a run for the Senate. This administration found

794
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 2: out about it, and as it is wont to do.

795
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 2: Began trying to act revenge on people, no matter how

796
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: long they'd or no matter what they had served, but

797
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: because they had said mean things about Donald Trump, and

798
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 2: we're thinking about standing up against some of what we're

799
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 2: saying today, and they revoked a security clearance, and you know,

800
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 2: came after me the way they've come after so many others.

801
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,959
Speaker 2: What made your democrat? Why'd you pick a party? Yeah?

802
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: When did you pick a party? Do you remember when

803
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: you've said, you know what I think? I am a

804
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: Democrat and this is why I'm doing it. What give

805
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: me your reasoning for?

806
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was a it was a long, maybe a

807
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: short evolution out of being a conservative, which is, you know,

808
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 2: I would freely admit to holding some conservative views as

809
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 2: a as an interested teenager or even in high school.

810
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 2: But my journey away from that came, perhaps shockingly to

811
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: some people, through military service. The military exposed me to

812
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 2: people from all walks of life, nationalities, sexual orientations, all

813
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: of that, and I began seeing, you know, what I

814
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: have since come to believe is, you know, this source

815
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 2: of strength in our military and in our country, which

816
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 2: is the diversity that we have. But it was also

817
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 2: seeing the lies of the Iraq War. I, you know,

818
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 2: I could see something very different than what the George W.

819
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: Bush administration was saying publicly, you know, about this status

820
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: or the state of our military, our readiness to fight

821
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: such a war. And then you know, we we we

822
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: later come to learn that much of the rationale for

823
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: going to war in Iraq was a house of cards,

824
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 2: and I continue to see that, you know, some twenty

825
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: years later, as one of the most disastrous foreign policy

826
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: decisions we've made, certainly in my lifetime. So that began,

827
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: you know, a period of reassessment for me away from

828
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 2: you know, what was the Republican Party or conservative viewpoints.

829
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 2: And I would say that the journey into being you know,

830
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 2: a Democrat is something that happened much later. I you know,

831
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 2: I'm sure somebody will fact check me on this, but

832
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: if my memory serves me, the first time I registered

833
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 2: as a Democrat to vote was in twenty sixteen, and

834
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 2: it was in response to what I saw as the

835
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: clear and present danger of Donald Trump. And I have

836
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 2: been proudly a Democrat since that time because that is

837
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: the party that I see standing up for a strong America,

838
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: for an America that works for everybody and not just

839
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 2: the wealthiest.

840
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 1: You know, hearing your story, talking about your personal story,

841
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: your parents struggles with opoioid's, the tragedy of your father,

842
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: the strength of your grandparents, I'm sure I'm not the

843
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: only person who they start to think. I wonder what

844
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: he thought of Hillbill the book Hillbilly Elegy by a

845
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: gentleman by the name of jd Vance. Some people may

846
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: recognize him as the current Vice President, and some people

847
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: may wonder if the same person wrote that book. And

848
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: I'll set that aside. I'm curious what you made of

849
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: that book and how much of what jd Vance shared

850
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: in that book resonated with you.

851
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. I first became aware of that book in twenty

852
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 2: nineteen when I lost my father, and then, you know,

853
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 2: an attempt to process my own emotions around that, because Chuck,

854
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 2: it was, you know, one of the most debilitating things

855
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 2: that had ever happened to me, because no matter how

856
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 2: long I had expected that phone call, nothing really prepares

857
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: you for it. And I would say, my life for

858
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 2: six years has been a project and trying to understand

859
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,919
Speaker 2: how this country could you know, create my life, which

860
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 2: I see as a truly uniquely American life, coming from

861
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 2: Valley Station, Kentucky to the halls of the West Wing

862
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 2: in twelve years to leadership and business. If my life

863
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 2: is uniquely American, so too was my father's death. Because

864
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 2: people do not die from fentonyl overdoses in a statistically

865
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: significant way in other parts of the world, yet it's

866
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 2: the leading cause of death, I believe, in the United

867
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 2: States for people ages eighteen to forty four. So I

868
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 2: became aware of hillbili elogy during that time. And I

869
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 2: would say there are a lot of similarities between my

870
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 2: story in JD. Vance's. My heart aches for you know,

871
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: the life that he described, you know, living growing up,

872
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 2: and so much of it resonates with me. And I

873
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: understand that, you know, he similarly felt a need to

874
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: serve his country. And you know, I will have to

875
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 2: transition now to say that there are major differences between

876
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: my story and JD. Vance's, and that being that I

877
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 2: didn't turn into a giant asshole at the end of it.

878
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: Boy, I didn't see that landing. I didn't see the

879
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: plate landing that abruptly. That was quite we may have crashed.

880
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 2: It a little bit.

881
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: I was just going to say I had one of

882
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: those landings yesterday actually, while flying back from Miami, where

883
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: it was the first I think a runway that he

884
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: wasn't used to using it.

885
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 2: It was like boa, like we all hit the ground

886
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 2: and road. Whoa. That was an early morning flight, so

887
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 2: it woke me up. No.

888
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: I mean, look, it is very hard to square jd Vance,

889
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: the author jd Vance, the conservative pundit of twenty sixteen,

890
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: right right with the person that ended up in the

891
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: United States Senate, you know, sort of making a what

892
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: appears to be a political deal, right, And look, that's yeah.

893
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: I've always slightly hesitant on motive, in assuming motive, because

894
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: none of us can crawl inside anybody's head right on motive.

895
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: But he just looks from the outside. O. This stuff

896
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't compute. But what does compute, frankly, is the

897
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,399
Speaker 1: fact that these so many of these stories exist and

898
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: why politicians have had a hard time figuring out how

899
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: to use government to fix this.

900
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 2: So let's talk about that.

901
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 1: Like I would assume for you, if you get elected

902
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: that a priority is going to be Okay, how do

903
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: we deal with it? I mean, take the issue of fentyl.

904
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: You got a president who's manufacturing, is using the fentyl crisis,

905
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 1: which is real, and ascribing it to the Venezuelans, which

906
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with this, right, and getting us

907
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: potentially to screw up yet another Latin American country with

908
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: interventions that will only cost us cause this country problems

909
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 1: for decades to come, and our distrust in that region

910
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: of the country. And it's like, how many times do

911
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 1: we have to screw up our relationships with Latin America

912
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: with this? But what is you know, you've it sounds like,

913
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 1: for the last six years in particular, you've really wanted

914
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: to understand both the struggles people have with ventanyl, how

915
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: it gets into this country. What should we be doing

916
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: differently to stop ventanyl from getting into this country? And

917
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 1: is it possible? You know, are we trying to like

918
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 1: stop the weather right?

919
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 2: Like?

920
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: Is this impossible? And instead we've got to go about

921
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: this another way.

922
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we certainly have to go about it

923
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 2: in a different way than we've attacked this problem or

924
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: any other of the drug crises that we've had in

925
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: this country over the years. But you know, let me

926
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,959
Speaker 2: start with kind of the supply side of this, where

927
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 2: we you know, that's where Donald Trump's conversation around it

928
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 2: seems to end. And unfortunately for many Americans, he's not

929
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 2: the only president that has stopped the conversation. There. We

930
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 2: talk about, you know, a drug war, and usually what

931
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 2: we mean there is attacking the supply and where the

932
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 2: stuff is coming from. Yes, we have to secure our borders.

933
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 2: Yes we have to go after and chase to the

934
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 2: ends of the earth the supply of this stuff, whether

935
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 2: we find it in a factory in Beijing or whether

936
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 2: we find it being pushed from boardrooms in some of

937
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 2: the largest companies and richest families in this country. And

938
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 2: you know, we've had many, many Kentuckians lose a father

939
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 2: or a brother because of unregulated capitalism and doctors who

940
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 2: had very perverse incentives to continue pushing highly addictive opioids

941
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 2: and poison into our community. So I think we've we've

942
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 2: got to pursue the supply of this in many different directions.

943
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:03,280
Speaker 2: We've made some progress on that, but it's the demand

944
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 2: side of it. Why are people turning to these drugs?

945
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 2: Why do people want to use them? And I think

946
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 2: it is that that we need to that there is

947
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 2: so much more that this country could do. When I

948
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 2: talk to, you know, friends in Europe about, you know,

949
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 2: what's going on with drugs and addiction here, and they're like,

950
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 2: wait a minute. Drug addicts, you know, they often not

951
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: because they're terrible people, but because they're literally out of

952
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 2: their minds while using do some destructive things, whether they

953
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 2: steal or are a public nuisance or wrecked cars and

954
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 2: all these things. These are stories that are just so

955
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 2: vividly remembered in my life and in my family's life,

956
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 2: and European friends are like, wait, you send those people

957
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 2: to jail. Why don't you send them to the hospital,

958
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 2: because it sounds like that's probably what they need. In Kentucky,

959
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 2: we've had three years of declining overdose deaths from syntheticopioids.

960
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 2: We've got down to like fourteen hundred and ten this

961
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 2: past year. A lot of that progress was made because

962
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 2: we invested heavily in this state and medicaid expansion, and

963
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 2: it was access to medicaid that paid for treatment, that

964
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 2: helped people, paid for some NARCAN community awareness, and also

965
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 2: paid for treatment for addicts. And I do think that

966
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,720
Speaker 2: is just something we have to invest more in because

967
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: we want people to have good lives and good opportunity

968
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 2: in this country. And you know, young men especially account

969
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,240
Speaker 2: for I think eighty percent of what we call deaths

970
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: of despair, which are deaths from overdoses of some form

971
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 2: or another or from suicide. And I think this can

972
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 2: all be tied back to people who see their prospects demming,

973
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 2: who see that no matter how hard they work, they're

974
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 2: not going to be able to get ahead. And that's

975
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,399
Speaker 2: something that has to change. And I think that once

976
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 2: we have a sane economic policy in this country for

977
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 2: the working class upon whose backs all of this prospects

978
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 2: already was built, only then we be able to truly

979
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: address these problems with addiction.

980
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: So when you think about the things that could have

981
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: helped your father, you know, what's what's an intervention that

982
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 1: we're doing now? I mean, you know, I lost my

983
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 1: father at sixteen. I'm sorry alcoholism and hepatitis C in

984
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: the late eighties when we didn't have a pill to

985
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: take to sol hepatitis CE.

986
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: You just died.

987
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: So you know, I've got it's always one of for me,

988
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: the what if is, oh, my goodness, if you just

989
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: lived ten years longer than there'd have been a cure

990
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: and he would have survived. When you think about the

991
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: things that we're doing now, if they had been available

992
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: even ten years ago, do you think your father.

993
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,240
Speaker 2: Would still be alive? Well, I know that as a

994
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: civil servant, you know, living on an okay salary, but

995
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 2: in a very expensive city in Washington, d C. It

996
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 2: was very tough to get access to resources. And so

997
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 2: I always say, you know, we confronted my father and

998
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 2: checked him into you know, dollar Store Rehab and Elizabethtown, Kentucky.

999
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 2: You know it was there were professionals there were doing

1000
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 2: the best they can, but it wasn't the most well

1001
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 2: resourced facility, and a lot of desperate people showed up there.

1002
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 2: But even that bought us some valuable years with my dad.

1003
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 2: He was able to see his granddaughter, you know, grow up.

1004
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 2: In his best moments, you know, in my in my

1005
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 2: recollection were always when he was a heavily involved father.

1006
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 2: And it was as my you know, my life and

1007
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 2: his started going in very different directions when I was

1008
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: a teenager. And this is because you know, there was

1009
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: a free fall that happens in this country. You know,

1010
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 2: you you grow up, you have some roof over your

1011
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 2: head or some access to basics, you get good public education.

1012
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 2: You've got some opportunities if you make just even marginally

1013
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 2: okay choices in this country. And my dad's path, you know,

1014
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 2: wound through a union and I got him jobs that

1015
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 2: were relatively you know, well paying when he could work.

1016
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 2: But you know, obviously there were mornings in the union

1017
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 2: hall where he didn't have work and the earlier mid nineties,

1018
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 2: but it was it was you know, surgeries and things

1019
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 2: like that that started to get these pain pills into

1020
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 2: his system. And then as his economic prospects dimmed, those

1021
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 2: that became a way to medicate away some of what

1022
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 2: I'm sure was existential pain for him. I was going

1023
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 2: to provide for his family. I was going to provide

1024
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 2: for his kids, for son and his daughter, my sister.

1025
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 2: So to answer your question specifically, yeah, we are doing

1026
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 2: a lot more today. There's a lot more awareness about

1027
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: it than there was before. This is an uncomfortable thing

1028
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 2: to talk about, is I'm sure it has been for you,

1029
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 2: you know, opening up and and it takes Look, you're

1030
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 2: never going to get over it.

1031
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,399
Speaker 1: I you know, I want My wife and I both

1032
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: lost parents at different times of our life, and we

1033
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: always say, you know, the thing, the thing that you

1034
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: learn when you lose somebody like that. No matter when

1035
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: you lose it, it doesn't matter. It's always painful in it.

1036
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: You never get over it. You just sort of you

1037
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: live with it, right, Right, That's what we did. You

1038
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: just learn to live with it, and then you wonder,

1039
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: what can how do you learn from it?

1040
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 2: Right?

1041
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: How do you how do you try to try to

1042
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 1: try to move on? You know, you brought up Medicaid.

1043
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: I mean you feel your I take it your concern

1044
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: that these Medicaid cuts are just going to make it

1045
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,240
Speaker 1: that much harder. You know, do you feel like Kentucky

1046
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: needs more facilities that do rehab or they have enough facilities,

1047
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: they need more resources to staff those facilities.

1048
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 2: I think it's both, and I'll just zoom out to

1049
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 2: healthcare large. We need more doctors, we need more health

1050
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 2: care facilities. Uh. This administration passed an unconscionable four trillion

1051
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 2: dollar tax cut to put money back in the pockets

1052
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 2: of the already ultra wealthy, like the ten billionaires that

1053
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 2: serve in Donald Trump's cabinet. I'm fond of saying those

1054
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 2: billionaires are not like the average Kentucky voter. They do

1055
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 2: not like the average Kentucky voter. And they paid for

1056
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 2: all of this by taking money out of healthcare programs

1057
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 2: that as as our governor has been front and center

1058
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 2: in the press sounding the alarm about this. These cuts

1059
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 2: put thirty five rule hospitals pills in this state under

1060
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 2: threat of closure for people, you know, to lose access

1061
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 2: to that healthcare. Even people who maintain health insurance through

1062
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 2: their employers are going to have to drive farther, wait longer.

1063
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 2: These communities are going to lose you know, one of

1064
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: the largest employers in their communities. So yeah, we have

1065
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 2: a shortage of health care access in the state of

1066
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 2: Kentucky and in many parts around the country. And I

1067
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 2: think Republicans in this administration have shown just play in

1068
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 2: simply in recent months that they do not care. So

1069
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 2: I do think that we need to increase the supply

1070
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 2: of health care. We need to invest in more of

1071
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 2: what people actually need, and in Kentucky that does mean

1072
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 2: you know, more access to addiction treatment and overdose prevention.

1073
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: But again, I think the root causes of all this

1074
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 2: happened way earlier in life, and I would again tie

1075
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 2: it to increasing inequality and dimming prospects for working.

1076
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: Families having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know

1077
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 1: from personal experience. I was sixteen when my father passed away.

1078
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 1: We didn't have any money. He didn't leave us in

1079
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: the best shape. My mother single mother, now widow, myself

1080
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: sixteen trying to figure out how am I going to

1081
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,919
Speaker 1: pay for college and lo and behold, my dad had

1082
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: one life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot,

1083
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 1: but it was important at the time, and it's why

1084
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: I was able to go to college. Little did he

1085
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 1: know how important that would be in that moment.

1086
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 2: Well, guess what.

1087
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: That's why I am here to tell you about Etho's life.

1088
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 1: They can provide you with peace of mind knowing your

1089
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: family is protected even if the worst comes to pass.

1090
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 1: Ethos is an online platform that makes getting life insurance

1091
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 1: fast and easy, all designed to protect your family's future

1092
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: in minutes, not months. There's no complicated process, and it's

1093
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: one hundred percent online. There's no medical exam require you

1094
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: just answer a few health questions online. You can get

1095
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: a quote in as little as ten minutes, and you

1096
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: can get same day coverage without ever leaving your home.

1097
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: You can get up to three million dollars in coverage

1098
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: and some policies start as low as two dollars a

1099
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: day that would be billed monthly. As of March twenty

1100
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: twenty five, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no

1101
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: medical exam instant life insurance provider. So protect your family

1102
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: with life insurance from Ethos. Get your free quotedt Ethos

1103
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: dot com slash chuck. So again that's Ethos dot com

1104
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: slash chuck. Application times may vary and the rates themselves

1105
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 1: may vary as well, but trust me, life insurance is

1106
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: something you should really think about, especially if you've got

1107
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: a growing family.

1108
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 2: So let's talk.

1109
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, I know that the next and

1110
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: perhaps you know, the fear of AI displacement for sort

1111
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: of middle class white collar workers is now you know,

1112
01:00:58,040 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: there's like a whole new group of folks that are

1113
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: learning what blue collar workers were worrying about during audit

1114
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 1: the rise of the initial rise of automation and robotics

1115
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: right plus the global the global trade system in the

1116
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: nineties and in the early odds, and that created this displacement.

1117
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 1: Now we've got AI displacement's going to hit another chunk

1118
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: of workers. This attempt to bring manufacturing back. Frankly, doesn't

1119
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 1: involve many individuals, right, It is more of a robotics

1120
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 1: and automated situation. So, you know, how do we You know,

1121
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 1: we can't go backwards. We're not going to force companies

1122
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: to use humans if it's cheaper to do an automated thing, Right,

1123
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 1: That's just not how capitalism works. But what's what should

1124
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 1: we you know, what what is what are the jobs

1125
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: in the next twenty years that we ought to be

1126
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 1: trying to get our communities prepared for, get our public

1127
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: education system geared towards you know, because I think about

1128
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: think about the last thirty years, and we thought all

1129
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: of our kids needed to learn to code, right, And

1130
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: it turns out whatever coding you've learned, it doesn't matter anymore.

1131
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 2: AI is going to do it.

1132
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: And so I can tell you this as a parent.

1133
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: You're petrified my kids. You know, my kid's going to

1134
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: have a future and what does that look like? It

1135
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: sounds like you have younger kids, both of mine are

1136
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 1: in college. What do you think about is the jobs

1137
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: of the future and how should government be thinking about it?

1138
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, for the record, my son is sixteen and this

1139
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 2: is obviously a very uh.

1140
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: Yes, you're right. At the moment conversation. Yes, I have

1141
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 1: a freshman. I have a senior in college and a

1142
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: freshman in college.

1143
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, good stuff. So look, we've always had

1144
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 2: I mean, America is the innovation engine of the world.

1145
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 2: We have always innovated and with every wave of you know,

1146
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 2: innovation from you know, the industrial age too, you know,

1147
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 2: the assembly line, to even modern management theory and efficiency

1148
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 2: in factories and in business, there's there's always been displacement

1149
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 2: and we've always found, uh, you know, ways to innovate

1150
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 2: even around that, and people have always found, you know,

1151
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 2: new ways to to to to labor and to work.

1152
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 2: And I think there is some really, there are some

1153
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 2: reasons to believe. And I'm someone who has spent a

1154
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 2: lot of time, you know, running a technology company. Over

1155
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 2: the past couple of years, I've had the chance to uh,

1156
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 2: you know, I when I lost my security clearance, some

1157
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 2: of the you know, the most strident and well known

1158
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 2: right wing trolls on Twitter told me that I should

1159
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 2: learn to code. I'm like, yeah, thanks, I did that

1160
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 2: six years ago. You know already did that. So I

1161
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 2: say that only to say that I've you know, spent

1162
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 2: a lot of time uh playing around experimenting with and

1163
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 2: understanding AI tools and you know their implications in the workplace.

1164
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 2: I I am less bullish about the immediate, you know,

1165
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 2: wide scale impacts of this because there are a lot

1166
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 2: of implementation issues. There are a lot of data quality issues,

1167
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 2: hallucination issues, and all these sorts of things that I

1168
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,439
Speaker 2: think even companies who have made a decision to lay

1169
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 2: off and displaced workers thinking they're going to be replaced

1170
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 2: with AI, are going to see and relatively short order

1171
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 2: that that it is not the panacea that they might

1172
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 2: think it is. Even still, I do accept the premise

1173
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 2: that we are going to have some massive changes in

1174
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 2: the economy, uh and in the jobs that are available

1175
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 2: to people. And I think that there are there are

1176
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 2: two things we need to wrestle with. Is one like, Okay,

1177
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 2: if a business finds a more efficient way to do something, well, great,

1178
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 2: they're going to have more profits. But now we're going

1179
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 2: to have more people on snap benefits. Now we're going

1180
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 2: to have more people, you know, needing Medicaid because they

1181
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 2: don't have healthcare. Because you know, all this activity in

1182
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 2: the economy has to come from somewhere. It has to come,

1183
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 2: you know, from from consumers. Buying things. And what I'm

1184
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 2: increasingly worried about is just that that the broad consumer

1185
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 2: base in this economy is just going to be completely

1186
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 2: left behind because the wealthy have enough at the top

1187
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 2: to continue pumping money into these businesses and these experiments

1188
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 2: and buying really expensive things.

1189
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 1: Now we're seeing it right now, where the high end

1190
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: consumer market is doing just fine. Yeah, but middle and

1191
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 1: long people are pulling back. People are saving money. And

1192
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: it's like this income and equality line is gap is

1193
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: just getting bigger and bigger.

1194
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so tax policy is I think the number

1195
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 2: one thing that can address this. You don't have a

1196
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 2: situation where, you know, the America's first billionaire he died

1197
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 2: a billionaire, John Rockefeller, in nineteen thirty seven. Bill Gates

1198
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 2: fifty years later became the fifteenth billionaire, and thirty eight

1199
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 2: years since then, we now have seven hundred and fifty, right,

1200
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 2: and you know, all of the gains in the economy

1201
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 2: since the early nineties or like fifty two percent of

1202
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 2: them have been captured by the top one percent. So

1203
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 2: there has to be a reckoning with this growing inequality.

1204
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 2: It's in moral but to anywhere in the world in

1205
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 2: history where you see fascism grow. It does so in

1206
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 2: the fertile fields of wealth inequality, and people get desperate.

1207
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 2: They turn to strong men who say I alone can

1208
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 2: fix it.

1209
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 1: Right, No, I mean, I look at I talked about

1210
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: the fall of Turkey in Venezuela all the time to

1211
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: former democracies. I guess you could take Turkey is slightly

1212
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 1: higher on the democracy rating scale than Venezuela is, but

1213
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: a right Erwan and Hugo havez before Maduro, but Ugo

1214
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 1: shaves who sort of started this revolution. Both of them

1215
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:40,000
Speaker 1: used frustration in poor communities to go after the so

1216
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: called elites, right in Istanbul or Caracas. I mean, look,

1217
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 1: I assume this is your experience overseas that this is

1218
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 1: there's a pattern here right where they when there's a

1219
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 1: belief when the gap between rich and poor gets so big,

1220
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 1: you can weaponize the poor against the elites and the

1221
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 1: pitchforks will come. But democracy leaves.

1222
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's replaced with corruption and crony capitalism every

1223
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 2: timepocrisy of some sort. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So we do

1224
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 2: have to reckon with our tax policy that that I

1225
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 2: think has concentrated wealth at the top, that you know

1226
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 2: is certainly what does that look like.

1227
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 1: Because I've heard this before and the frankly, you know

1228
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 1: we you know, this is what we did one hundred

1229
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 1: years ago when we had all these robber barons. We

1230
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 1: passed the Amendment on the income tax. That was not

1231
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 1: about taxing Americans. That was about tax making sure the

1232
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 1: rich paid something back to this country that they were

1233
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: taking from it. And that's when property taxes became mainstream

1234
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: was back then? So what what is what is today's answer?

1235
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 1: Because I agree that tax policy is probably the that's

1236
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 1: what a small d democracy should do, and that sort

1237
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 1: of capitalism with guardrails.

1238
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 2: What what what large.

1239
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: Areas are you thinking when it comes to comes to

1240
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: tax policy and trying to close the income inequality gap

1241
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:05,919
Speaker 1: without it coming across this redistribution.

1242
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 2: Right, there's that fine line there, right, sure. Well, one

1243
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 2: easy answer is something that that Ronald Reagan actually did

1244
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 2: and then in the late part of his second term,

1245
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 2: which is ensure that capital gains, you know, gains from

1246
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:26,799
Speaker 2: investment were taxed at the same rate as your labor.

1247
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,840
Speaker 2: I see no reason why people working forty sixty hours

1248
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 2: a week and are subject to payroll taxes, and you know,

1249
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:36,680
Speaker 2: even if they don't make enough money to actually be

1250
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 2: subject to income taxes. They're paying a lot into to

1251
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 2: FIKA and into payroll taxes. And even in the you know,

1252
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 2: Reagan years, they found a way to say, hey, no,

1253
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 2: we're going to make sure that Okay, if you're if

1254
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 2: you're just putting money, you're making money off of money,

1255
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 2: well that's going to be taxed in the same way

1256
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 2: that making money off of you know, your labor or

1257
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 2: breaking your knees, you know, welding iron together and setting iron.

1258
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:00,680
Speaker 2: Is that we're going to tax the same And that

1259
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:03,640
Speaker 2: actually happened in this country for two years until George H. W.

1260
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 2: Bush undid that policy. And I don't remember if it

1261
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:07,880
Speaker 2: was eighty eight or ninety, but one of those years

1262
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:10,640
Speaker 2: check up on me. I think that that is a

1263
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 2: fairly easy place to start. And then the second thing,

1264
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 2: you know that we just have to deal with or

1265
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 2: you know, the strategies that the ultra wealthy use to

1266
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 2: live off of their unrealized gains. You know, people will say,

1267
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,799
Speaker 2: if if I have stock and it appreciates in value,

1268
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:29,680
Speaker 2: but I haven't sold the stock, I didn't actually make

1269
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 2: any money. That's true, except that you also collateralized that

1270
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 2: stock and borrowed a lot of money from banks to

1271
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 2: be able to live off of you know, you you

1272
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 2: accessed some value from that appreciation and that gain, and

1273
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 2: so I think even a simple policy like removing this

1274
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 2: by borrowde wealth preservations strategy that wealthy people use could

1275
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:55,640
Speaker 2: also go some way in curing or making this a

1276
01:09:55,720 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 2: more equitable system. Basically, if you if you obtain cash

1277
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 2: flow from those unrealized gains in any way, at that point,

1278
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 2: it would be subject to tax. So these are kind

1279
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:07,639
Speaker 2: of simple things. I think there's a lot of other

1280
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:11,879
Speaker 2: complicated things that I'm sure academics and tax policy experts

1281
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 2: have a spectrum of disagreement about. But I think, you know,

1282
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,320
Speaker 2: to your last point about redistribution, this is where Democrats

1283
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 2: often get in trouble because everybody sees that, oh, well,

1284
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:23,519
Speaker 2: we're going to tax, we're going to tax everybody more,

1285
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 2: you know, hard working people, and then we're just going

1286
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:28,479
Speaker 2: to do handouts to people who don't want to work.

1287
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 2: And this is just silliness, right. I believe that that's

1288
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 2: a myth for the most part, that most people receiving

1289
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 2: whether they're snap benefits or medicaid or whatever, actually do

1290
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 2: want to work. And I think forty million people on

1291
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 2: snap benefits, fifteen million of them do work full time.

1292
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 2: They don't make enough to actually be able to afford groceries.

1293
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 2: So I think we got to do away with some

1294
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:50,879
Speaker 2: of those myths about the working poor in this country.

1295
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 2: But separately, rather than handing people you know, money to

1296
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 2: go buy things, we as a country need to invest

1297
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 2: some of those proceeds into building more. We don't have

1298
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 2: enough high quality education in this country. We have an

1299
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 2: energy grid that is increasingly falling behind for the demands

1300
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 2: that are going to be placed on it by an

1301
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 2: ai centric economy. We don't have enough hospitals and doctors,

1302
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 2: as I alluded to earlier. We need to invest in

1303
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 2: all of these things heavily and infrastructure in this country.

1304
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 1: No, and it it does seem though that there is

1305
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 1: a collective agreement on that. And yet you've seen this.

1306
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:30,799
Speaker 1: This Congress doesn't function very well at the moment because

1307
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,759
Speaker 1: we're in this you know, we're in this like forever

1308
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:35,719
Speaker 1: Cold War between red and blue.

1309
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is very dysfunctional. And even when you

1310
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 2: can have consensus, or even when you have you know,

1311
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 2: broad agreement on issues, you know, progress remains elusive, and

1312
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 2: I believe that it is just that this system has

1313
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 2: been captured by the political and economic elites that are

1314
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 2: entrenched interests. We have campaigns, you know, bought and paid for,

1315
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 2: Elon Musk invests to forty something million dollars in getting

1316
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 2: President Trump reelected, and all of these parties you know,

1317
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 2: are looking out for their own interests and they are

1318
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:13,120
Speaker 2: the ones you know, funding politics. And we have tried

1319
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:17,679
Speaker 2: to have grassroots campaigns over the you know, the past decade,

1320
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:20,680
Speaker 2: but these relentless text messages and emails and candidates like

1321
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 2: myself have to send two people who already probably don't

1322
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 2: make much and know, chip in five bucks to save democracy,

1323
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:29,120
Speaker 2: and then a lot of that just goes back to,

1324
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 2: you know, paying for campaign consultants and all. It's absolutely

1325
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:37,599
Speaker 2: fundraiser makes the money. Yeah, it's absolute nonsense. And I

1326
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 2: think that that, you know, we have to start electing

1327
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 2: people to the Senate who understand the struggles of the

1328
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 2: working poor in this country. We talk about how much

1329
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 2: representation matters, you know, especially as Democrats, and we mean

1330
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 2: that in a variety of different ways, but one way

1331
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 2: in which we don't explicitly talk about it is do

1332
01:12:57,600 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 2: poor people see themselves in any of the people that

1333
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 2: are elected to represent them, And I would say that

1334
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 2: they do not, because you know, many people who seek

1335
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 2: office year after year, cycle after cycle and win or lose.

1336
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 2: I just don't think they have much in common with

1337
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:16,640
Speaker 2: the people who who they are trying to represent. And

1338
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 2: I think that that representation matters a lot.

1339
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 1: So And I'm not like asking you to throw shade

1340
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 1: at at potential primary opponents, but I may already have.

1341
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:30,559
Speaker 1: It's sorry, why did why does Andy Basheer succeed? And

1342
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:33,240
Speaker 1: why did an Amy McGrath fail in twenty twenty?

1343
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:37,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's there are a lot of you know,

1344
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 2: contributing factors, and you know why you should ask a

1345
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 2: me what her assessment of that race is. I'm sure

1346
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 2: that she should all the money in the world, all

1347
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:47,240
Speaker 2: that money in the world.

1348
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 1: This was not a she didn't. This was not a

1349
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: financial issue. So this became a you know, the you know,

1350
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 1: an old marketing slogan was that the dog that doesn't

1351
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 1: matter how much money you throw behind the dog food.

1352
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 1: If the dog won't eat the dog food, you know

1353
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 1: it's not going to work. Why didn't it work?

1354
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? Again, she would probably be much more you know,

1355
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 2: qualified to share an assessment with you on that. I

1356
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 2: will say Amy McGrath. McGrath has an incredible life story.

1357
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 2: She's a patriot that you know, has served her country

1358
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 2: and she she's been in this fight. I think my

1359
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 2: assessment is that in a place like Kentucky, it's a

1360
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 2: state that has been you know, that has put its

1361
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 2: faith in its trust in Donald Trump. You know, three

1362
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 2: three times three three elections in a row, and it

1363
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 2: you know, voters here believed the promises that he made

1364
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 2: and believed that he was going to be looking out

1365
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 2: for them. And when when Democrats don't actually offer an

1366
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 2: alternative vision, when they when they sometimes speak in ways

1367
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 2: that sound just kind of Republican but just a little

1368
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 2: less republican, I don't think voters can really tell the difference.

1369
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 2: And so if you got people on the fence, they're

1370
01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:59,160
Speaker 2: going to just vote for the Republican. Uh and Andy,

1371
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 2: butsheer didn't you know, do that. This is a governor

1372
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 2: who led with his values in both of his campaigns.

1373
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 2: He didn't shy away from talking about hard things, but

1374
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:11,719
Speaker 2: he explained his choices, his decisions and reasons for different

1375
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:13,760
Speaker 2: things and decisions he would make and policies he would

1376
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 2: advocate for. And even people who disagreed with Andy Bushier

1377
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 2: said that they trusted him and they thought that he

1378
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 2: would look out for them. And then he has shown up.

1379
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 2: We've had fourteen natural disasters or something declared in the

1380
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 2: state of Kentucky over the past couple of years or

1381
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 2: during his administration. This isn't a guy who hides in

1382
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,920
Speaker 2: the governor's mansion. He's been out, He's been present with people,

1383
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 2: and I think that even when they disagree with them,

1384
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:40,479
Speaker 2: are in, you know, marginal things, that he has their

1385
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:43,240
Speaker 2: back on the major things. So I think that that's

1386
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 2: probably the big difference.

1387
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 1: What do you think is the best way to win

1388
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 1: win over somebody who voted for Donald Trump in twenty

1389
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 1: twenty four to vote for Joel Willett in twenty twenty six.

1390
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would just ask those voters do they see

1391
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 2: more of themselves in Joel Willett or in Donald Trump.

1392
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:04,519
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's net worth has increased three billion dollars according

1393
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 2: to the most recent estimates since January twentieth. How's your

1394
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:11,679
Speaker 2: bottom line doing? Kentucky? Wages are stagnant, costs are up.

1395
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 2: You can't afford groceries. They're actively trying to take your

1396
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:18,200
Speaker 2: health care. This man went to the Supreme Court this

1397
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 2: week to try to get permission to not give people

1398
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:25,559
Speaker 2: money to buying groceries. And this administration made sure that

1399
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:29,480
Speaker 2: Republicans in the Senate couldn't negotiate a deal with Democrats

1400
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 2: so that Americans wouldn't be faced with this unconscionable choice

1401
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:35,839
Speaker 2: between being able to afford groceries or seeing a doctor

1402
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,040
Speaker 2: when they get sick. And I would just ask voters

1403
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:42,559
Speaker 2: to keep asking themselves why that is. Do you believe

1404
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 2: that this man has your back? And I think there

1405
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,840
Speaker 2: is ample evidence at this point between his ballrooms, his

1406
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 2: own increase in his wealth, and these other policies he

1407
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 2: does not definitely.

1408
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 1: Has a gilded age feeling to it. Doesn't it like, yeah,

1409
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:00,240
Speaker 1: let them cake whatever you want to, whatever cliche you

1410
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:00,800
Speaker 1: want to pick it.

1411
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:06,599
Speaker 2: It feels it like you're just like, yeah, the pictures

1412
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:07,200
Speaker 2: are jarring.

1413
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 1: Well it leads me, and look, this is by the

1414
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 1: time this airs, the shutdown is over, it's behind us.

1415
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 1: So we're in the we're taping when they're in the

1416
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:26,639
Speaker 1: middle of it ending. And I'm one of those who

1417
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 1: are empathetic to I get I understand the rationale on

1418
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:34,080
Speaker 1: both sides of this argument inside the Democratic Party. One

1419
01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:37,800
Speaker 1: that says, hey, they're squirming, why give up now? The

1420
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: other that says, he's he's taking away snap benefits, he's

1421
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 1: putting the travel system under duress. Somebody's got to be

1422
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 1: the adult in the room here. And oh, by the way,

1423
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 1: if you're trying if the whole point of this was

1424
01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 1: to bring more attention to healthcare, that's been a mission accomplished,

1425
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:04,720
Speaker 1: and then now the burden is on them to either

1426
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 1: deal with this or watch out. In twenty twenty six,

1427
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: this becomes certainly a populist issue. So obviously you could

1428
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 1: see I can argue one side of this. I understand

1429
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 1: the other that, hey, the shutdown's gone politically really well

1430
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:20,640
Speaker 1: for the Democrats, and Trump has made all sorts of

1431
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:24,400
Speaker 1: mistakes like advocating to not pay snap benefits even when

1432
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:26,760
Speaker 1: a judge says to do it, and the Speaker of

1433
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: the House is abdicated responsibility, right Like, I can I

1434
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:34,880
Speaker 1: get the arguments and I couldn't I hear both of them.

1435
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 1: Where do you fall on this argument? And I'm mindful

1436
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 1: that you're in a Democratic primary in the moment.

1437
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:45,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm not someone who is going to ever

1438
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:48,240
Speaker 2: play hide the ball with the people that I want

1439
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 2: to vote for me and the people that I want

1440
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:55,320
Speaker 2: to represent. So in that spirit, I believe that the

1441
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 2: deal that was just struck is a betrayal of working

1442
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 2: families in this country. And I'm absolutely disgusted by this

1443
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 2: choice with the with the eight Democrats who who broke

1444
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 2: pretty angry about this, I am very fired up, Chuck.

1445
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 2: I went to bed mad and angry last night. I

1446
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:17,200
Speaker 2: woke up this morning, uh, the same exact way. And

1447
01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:20,519
Speaker 2: while yes, there are you know arguments there, I you know,

1448
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 2: we're fond of, you know, saying in sports, and when

1449
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:25,720
Speaker 2: we're trying to encourage people to to you know, get

1450
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:28,160
Speaker 2: in there and and fight and play a game, we say, well, hey,

1451
01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:30,400
Speaker 2: you can't win if you don't play. But I want

1452
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:33,519
Speaker 2: to quote my favorite, probably one of my favorite TV

1453
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:35,880
Speaker 2: series of all times, The Wire, And I'm sure this

1454
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 2: was a David Simon line, but one of the characters

1455
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:43,040
Speaker 2: told the police chief, you can't lose if you don't play,

1456
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:46,000
Speaker 2: and that is I think some of the energy Democrats

1457
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:49,160
Speaker 2: needed here. If the Republicans wanted the government open, they

1458
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:51,680
Speaker 2: found ways to force through the you know, the big

1459
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:55,920
Speaker 2: bullshit bill back in July. They did that right with

1460
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:59,960
Speaker 2: with UH without getting the support that you know, they

1461
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 2: they wanted from Democrats. They could have funded and reopened

1462
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:04,800
Speaker 2: the government the same way. Not sure there would have

1463
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 2: been some procedural issues and delays and things like that.

1464
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 2: They could have gotten it done if they wanted to.

1465
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 2: Democrats did not need to go support this. And yes,

1466
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 2: it is terrible to watch people potentially lose their SNAP

1467
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 2: or food stamp benefits. I was on food stamps as

1468
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 2: a kid. I know what that's like. You know, when

1469
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:24,360
Speaker 2: my parents had to make decisions between being able to

1470
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 2: afford groceries or putting gas in the car to get

1471
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:28,280
Speaker 2: to a job so they could make money to buy

1472
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,400
Speaker 2: more food. I get that personally, But it is not

1473
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:34,440
Speaker 2: Democrats that have made those choices. It was not Democrats

1474
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 2: going to the Supreme Court to try to get permission

1475
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:42,200
Speaker 2: to not pay SNAP benefits. That was Donald Trump. That

1476
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 2: was Republican enablers in Congress. Democrats had a very radical

1477
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 2: idea throughout this shutdown. Maybe in the most prosperous country

1478
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 2: on earth, with thirty trillion dollars in GDP, we can

1479
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:57,479
Speaker 2: have a country where people can afford groceries and be

1480
01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 2: able to see a doctor if you get sick. That

1481
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 2: seemed like a pretty noble fight to me. And I

1482
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:04,679
Speaker 2: don't understand, you know, when we've had millions of voters

1483
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 2: across this country in Virginia and New Jersey, in California

1484
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:11,559
Speaker 2: and New York show up just this week, right, you know,

1485
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:15,000
Speaker 2: over the past seven days, rather to support a party

1486
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:17,960
Speaker 2: that it's a fighting for them, to just immediately turn

1487
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 2: it out.

1488
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 1: To say why, why do you assume the fight's over?

1489
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a temporary opening, you know. I

1490
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 1: could if you made me have to message it on

1491
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: sort of on your I would say something like, look,

1492
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:33,040
Speaker 1: we're not gonna we're not going to make people have

1493
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 1: to ration food because this administration is going to do it.

1494
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 1: But we're going to keep fighting for healthcare and come January,

1495
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 1: if they don't do this, we're shutting this place down again.

1496
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 1: And what's wrong? What is wrong with that strategy because

1497
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 1: you do sort of try to strike I could argue

1498
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:55,560
Speaker 1: that it strikes the balance between you know, helping in

1499
01:21:55,600 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 1: the immediate term, and again I think, look, we're playing

1500
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:02,679
Speaker 1: with fire with what's going on with their traffic control

1501
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 1: and not paying these folks and and all of this stuff.

1502
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:07,160
Speaker 2: And I take it we had a we had a

1503
01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 2: crash here, and we don't.

1504
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:12,640
Speaker 1: Know that had what's that impacted by? Right, And we

1505
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,200
Speaker 1: can't say for sure, but we know we've put these

1506
01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:17,680
Speaker 1: people under duress, meaning they've got to work with a

1507
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 1: promise to be paid right, which I've never met the

1508
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 1: landlord that said that, Hey, I'm going to post date

1509
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 1: this check just you know, I just don't know when

1510
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:30,680
Speaker 1: I have to get to post date it. Do you

1511
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 1: not accept the premise that there's time to fight keep

1512
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:37,080
Speaker 1: fighting for this in two months?

1513
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 2: I think when you look at the eight Democrats who

1514
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:45,240
Speaker 2: voted for this, it sort of betrays the parties thinking

1515
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 2: that they don't really buy this premise either. None of

1516
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:51,080
Speaker 2: those people are facing reelection next cycle. To my knowledge,

1517
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:54,720
Speaker 2: find me one person who wants to run on this

1518
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:57,679
Speaker 2: compromise right now next cycle. I don't think you find

1519
01:22:57,760 --> 01:22:58,880
Speaker 2: that Democrat anyway.

1520
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:01,120
Speaker 1: What's the run on the compromise? The question is whether

1521
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:04,719
Speaker 1: you're running. You know, you get to keep running on healthcare?

1522
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:06,879
Speaker 1: I would argue you do, oh.

1523
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:10,599
Speaker 2: Sure, because but the problem is you've got tens of

1524
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:13,679
Speaker 2: millions of Americans who are absolutely now going to see

1525
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 2: premium increases or they're going to go without health care.

1526
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:18,920
Speaker 2: That is now a fact that is going to happen.

1527
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 2: And you know a lot of people are like, oh,

1528
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 2: do you trust Republicans that they're actually going to give

1529
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 2: you a vote on this or whatever. It's like, Okay,

1530
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:29,280
Speaker 2: I think you know. Fune has been very public that

1531
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 2: there is going to be a vote and it's going

1532
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:32,120
Speaker 2: to happen on such and such date and all that.

1533
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:33,160
Speaker 2: So take them out the where there's going to be

1534
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 2: a vote. What is that going to accomplish? Do you

1535
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:41,480
Speaker 2: think magically Republicans are going to extend these enhanced subsidies.

1536
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:44,400
Speaker 2: I think would be enough because I think they're petrified

1537
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 2: of this. I think they're absolutely petrified of the impact

1538
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:50,000
Speaker 2: com mess. I think they look at for a way out. Yeah,

1539
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:53,320
Speaker 2: well right, And so I don't have that level of

1540
01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 2: faith right now because they are beholden to Donald Trump.

1541
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 2: And this is a man who found his affordability in

1542
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:03,320
Speaker 2: the rative for a maximum of five hours one night

1543
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:05,640
Speaker 2: before he the next day said don't talk to me

1544
01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:09,200
Speaker 2: about affordability. I mean they are going to do whatever

1545
01:24:09,320 --> 01:24:11,880
Speaker 2: he says, and until he's out there saying the personation

1546
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 2: is noted there, Joel, I see that. It's incredible. Check

1547
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:20,000
Speaker 2: you know you got to keep that up. What more?

1548
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:20,400
Speaker 1: Is it just?

1549
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 2: Or do you have others that you're pretty good at? Oh? Well,

1550
01:24:23,479 --> 01:24:27,840
Speaker 2: we'll save those for future episodes. My wife hates my impersonations,

1551
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:30,759
Speaker 2: by the way. Oh she's got to be the biggest

1552
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:32,800
Speaker 2: fat She can't do that to you. I just want

1553
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:33,479
Speaker 2: to discourage it.

1554
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:36,479
Speaker 3: And I've got a shared brown impersonation that I've always

1555
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:39,559
Speaker 3: been really proud of ground to be a I just need,

1556
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:41,320
Speaker 3: you know, with the men and the working men and wave.

1557
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:44,559
Speaker 3: You know, you gotta you gotta have the dignity of work.

1558
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 2: There, Joel. That that is very good and quick aside.

1559
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:52,880
Speaker 2: I was I was able to uh see Carl Rove

1560
01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:58,880
Speaker 2: and Paul Lagala do a fireside chat last last fall,

1561
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:03,080
Speaker 2: and I mean, Carl Rove hasn't uh, you know, an

1562
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:06,200
Speaker 2: incredible impersonation Donald Trump and an even better one of

1563
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 2: George W. Bush, the president that that he serves so firstly,

1564
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:12,599
Speaker 2: and Paul Lagalla busted into a Bill Clinton, uh that

1565
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:15,720
Speaker 2: would deceive anyone. And I just thought that was very

1566
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 2: impressive that the presidents that they had served, that they

1567
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:21,080
Speaker 2: had just kind of embodied their voice so realistically.

1568
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:22,599
Speaker 1: Well, it makes you wonder did they embody their voice

1569
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:25,160
Speaker 1: or did the do the presidents embody the voices of

1570
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:28,600
Speaker 1: their chief strategists? Yeah, you know who's pulling this strength now,

1571
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:34,439
Speaker 1: I'm kidding. I'm kidding on that front. So I take

1572
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:36,880
Speaker 1: it that if there's no deal on healthcare, you'd say,

1573
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: you think that this that these that shut down the

1574
01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 1: government in January again, right, Yeah.

1575
01:25:43,240 --> 01:25:45,880
Speaker 2: I don't see what choice. I mean, look, I say

1576
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:48,200
Speaker 2: this as a civil servant, and and and perhaps I

1577
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:54,000
Speaker 2: should you know, lead with uh my, you know, I

1578
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:56,759
Speaker 2: understand I've lived through shutdowns. I had I was always

1579
01:25:56,800 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 2: a you know, a an essential implay all you doing

1580
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:03,479
Speaker 2: government shutdowns and had you know, pay at risk and

1581
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:07,160
Speaker 2: got paid. Yeah, it always came back. But even if

1582
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:09,960
Speaker 2: there was like a you know, a temporary you know,

1583
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 2: bulip in it, you you're you're not getting paid that

1584
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:15,800
Speaker 2: much anyways, right, and you you continue to show up

1585
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:17,559
Speaker 2: and it's it's work that you care about. But ultimately,

1586
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:19,439
Speaker 2: you know, you've got to be able to afford things.

1587
01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:22,880
Speaker 2: And I don't want to use public servants as a

1588
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 2: as a political football in that way. But we cannot

1589
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,840
Speaker 2: be the only party that cares about that one. One

1590
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 2: side of the spectrum right now is letting Donald Trump

1591
01:26:31,439 --> 01:26:34,160
Speaker 2: just run rough shot over the entire federal government, dismantling

1592
01:26:34,160 --> 01:26:37,639
Speaker 2: the civil servants, civil service that we fought so hard

1593
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:40,040
Speaker 2: to build in an a political way in this country.

1594
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:42,639
Speaker 2: And uh, you know, so I get Tim Kane when

1595
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,600
Speaker 2: when he's trying to support federal workers, but you know

1596
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:48,599
Speaker 2: the same is true from our corner. And so I

1597
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:51,320
Speaker 2: do think this is uh, we we have to keep fighting.

1598
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:55,439
Speaker 2: But like Democrats have to read the room the do

1599
01:26:55,439 --> 01:27:01,120
Speaker 2: you think Schumer should resign as party leader? H I

1600
01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:04,120
Speaker 2: I think that there are very valid and open questions

1601
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 2: about that. I want I don't know Chuck Schumer. I've

1602
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 2: not met with Chuck Schumer. You know, I get that

1603
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:15,639
Speaker 2: you know there is a lot going on behind the scenes,

1604
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:17,880
Speaker 2: and you know, for a party that is out of power,

1605
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:22,519
Speaker 2: and so you know that's that's not something I'm prepared

1606
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:24,720
Speaker 2: to say, as we said here, but it is an

1607
01:27:24,720 --> 01:27:25,719
Speaker 2: open question. In my mind.

1608
01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 1: Doesn't sound like somebody, if you won, you would support

1609
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:30,840
Speaker 1: keeping Chuck Schumer as a leader.

1610
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 2: If you had a vote, it would be a difficult

1611
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 2: vote for me to take today. I will say that

1612
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:37,720
Speaker 2: before I let you go.

1613
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:40,759
Speaker 1: I'm just curious, you know. I just interviewed Governor Basheer

1614
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 1: earlier this weekend. It's on a new sphere, which is

1615
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:49,799
Speaker 1: another sort of independent media outlet, and he said something interesting.

1616
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:55,439
Speaker 2: I said, you know. I said, he was talking about tariffs.

1617
01:27:56,240 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 1: And this is a case where Andy Basheer, Mitch McConnell,

1618
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 1: and Ran all are all on the same page.

1619
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 2: And he basically said.

1620
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:04,360
Speaker 1: If all three of us are agreeing on something, maybe

1621
01:28:04,360 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 1: there's something there.

1622
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 2: What do you make of Rand Paul? And I say

1623
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:10,799
Speaker 2: this because if you win, that's.

1624
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 1: A senator, you know, the States senators, you know, no

1625
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:15,720
Speaker 1: matter even if you're from different parties, at times you

1626
01:28:15,720 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 1: need to work together.

1627
01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:17,720
Speaker 2: What do you make of him?

1628
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:20,280
Speaker 1: And what do you make of his attempts at seeking

1629
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:22,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of distance from from Trump World in

1630
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 1: a way that we haven't seen in the past.

1631
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:31,679
Speaker 2: I Ran Paul is an idiosyncratic senator to say the least.

1632
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:36,040
Speaker 2: You know, his views will sometimes overlap in very weird

1633
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:39,240
Speaker 2: or align, you know, in very strange and unexpected ways.

1634
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 2: It's a weird ven diagram, isn't it it very much

1635
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 2: is I mean? But we have this in Kentucky with

1636
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,800
Speaker 2: Thomas Massey as well. You've got liberals across the state

1637
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:53,320
Speaker 2: celebrating Thomas Massey's willingness to stand up, you know, for

1638
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 2: the release of the Epstein files, which, by the way,

1639
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:59,000
Speaker 2: this issue is not going to go away either. Those

1640
01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:01,599
Speaker 2: finals I believe will see the light of day. They

1641
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:04,920
Speaker 2: have to. Voters are demanding it. But you make a

1642
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 2: broader point just about you know how we have to

1643
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:11,479
Speaker 2: work together. No one senator can promise to get anything

1644
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:14,200
Speaker 2: done on their own. You have to build relationships. You

1645
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:16,160
Speaker 2: have to be able to work across the aisle. And

1646
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:19,000
Speaker 2: I'm not somebody who presents just to be some above

1647
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:21,479
Speaker 2: it all centrist. I am not, and I, like I said,

1648
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:23,920
Speaker 2: We'll always tell voters you know where I stand on things,

1649
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:25,640
Speaker 2: and my mind is made up on something. I'm not

1650
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:28,240
Speaker 2: going to hide from you what I believe about it.

1651
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:32,320
Speaker 2: But that doesn't absolve me, or any senator or any

1652
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 2: congressman of a responsibility to represent all the people in

1653
01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:39,680
Speaker 2: our states, because it is inevitable in a state like

1654
01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:43,160
Speaker 2: Kentucky if I win, you know, there are going to

1655
01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:45,479
Speaker 2: be lots of people here who did not vote for me,

1656
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:48,960
Speaker 2: and they deserve a voice and they deserve representation as well.

1657
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:52,160
Speaker 2: The problem that we have right now in this country

1658
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:57,240
Speaker 2: is that, you know, you can have seventy five million

1659
01:29:57,280 --> 01:30:02,400
Speaker 2: people vote for Kamala Harris and marginally more millions vote

1660
01:30:02,439 --> 01:30:05,160
Speaker 2: for Trump, and they pretend that the score was one

1661
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:07,559
Speaker 2: hundred to nothing, I know, and that all the other

1662
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:09,599
Speaker 2: people didn't exist. You don't, you didn't win.

1663
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:12,200
Speaker 1: Actually not what our founders intended. They assumed it was

1664
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:15,000
Speaker 1: going to be a messy compromise constantly.

1665
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you know, we have to be able

1666
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 2: to do that. So, you know, I would I would

1667
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:23,840
Speaker 2: work with you know which who would then be the

1668
01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:26,599
Speaker 2: senior Senator from the state of Kentucky to take care

1669
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:29,320
Speaker 2: of working families in this state. They deserve a voice,

1670
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 2: they deserve representation, and we need solutions minded politicians. And

1671
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 2: that's exactly what I would be.

1672
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:39,880
Speaker 1: Outside of Kentucky. Who's the US Senator that so far

1673
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:41,120
Speaker 1: you've been the most impressed with.

1674
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:46,680
Speaker 2: You know, It's funny, somebody asked me, asked me that

1675
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:48,360
Speaker 2: question a few weeks so, not who I was most

1676
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:50,320
Speaker 2: impressed with. I was able to say a few, But

1677
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:55,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna. I'm going to continue to give Chris Murphy props.

1678
01:30:55,200 --> 01:30:58,679
Speaker 2: I have appreciated, you know, he's been a very level

1679
01:30:58,720 --> 01:31:04,639
Speaker 2: headed senator. He speaks passionately about you know, a lot

1680
01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:07,519
Speaker 2: of issues, but you know, particularly he's someone you know,

1681
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 2: I talked about, you know, my dad dying a uniquely

1682
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:13,360
Speaker 2: American death from finandol. Well, there's another uniquely American death,

1683
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:17,800
Speaker 2: and that's to get killed atra elementary school. And you know,

1684
01:31:17,920 --> 01:31:20,759
Speaker 2: when you've got senators, you know, who are completely owned

1685
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 2: by the NRA that that aren't even looking out for

1686
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:27,760
Speaker 2: response responsible gun owners anymore. You know, I've just been

1687
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:29,840
Speaker 2: impressed with, you know, his leadership on that issue and

1688
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:32,439
Speaker 2: other things, and somebody who I think is intelligent, whose

1689
01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:36,080
Speaker 2: heart's in the right place. And yeah, so I admire it,

1690
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:37,000
Speaker 2: admire that guy.

1691
01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:40,160
Speaker 1: And I take it that Governor Bursheer is your pick

1692
01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:42,360
Speaker 1: for president in twenty twenty eight because you got you're

1693
01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:43,320
Speaker 1: going to be a home state guy.

1694
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:46,760
Speaker 2: Is he is he running? Is he running? I don't know.

1695
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:47,479
Speaker 2: I don't think he's.

1696
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:47,680
Speaker 3: Uh.

1697
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:48,879
Speaker 2: I don't think he said.

1698
01:31:48,720 --> 01:31:51,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, look at you doing doing a little bit of

1699
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:52,280
Speaker 1: blocking and tackling that.

1700
01:31:52,600 --> 01:31:55,560
Speaker 2: I don't know, look at twenty twenty six. Right, yeah,

1701
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:57,559
Speaker 2: of course, but and that does have to be our folks.

1702
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:02,400
Speaker 2: I will tell you this. I do not believe, and

1703
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:04,720
Speaker 2: I know Gavin Newsom has been very public in saying this.

1704
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:07,560
Speaker 2: I've been saying it privately for months, that this administration

1705
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:10,360
Speaker 2: intends to have free and fair elections in twenty twenty eight.

1706
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:13,559
Speaker 2: And so if your listeners care at all about our

1707
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:17,240
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty year experiment with democracy here or

1708
01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 2: liberal democracy in America, it is imperative that we turn

1709
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:23,000
Speaker 2: out in massive numbers in twenty twenty six. I believe

1710
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 2: it's one of our last chances to provide accountability for

1711
01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:30,519
Speaker 2: this administration and to ensure that Americans have a free

1712
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:32,519
Speaker 2: and fair choice, whether that be for Andy Basheer or

1713
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:34,320
Speaker 2: anyone else in twenty twenty eight. So I don't think

1714
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 2: the stakes could be any higher. And I will say

1715
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:39,120
Speaker 2: Andy Basheer has been an incredible governor of this state,

1716
01:32:40,040 --> 01:32:42,280
Speaker 2: and he's shown it path to victory here for Democrats

1717
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:44,559
Speaker 2: who want to lead with their values to respect him

1718
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:44,880
Speaker 2: for that.

1719
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:47,679
Speaker 1: Let me get chatting here on this. Because you worked

1720
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:49,960
Speaker 1: in the intelligence community, and I've been working with some

1721
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:53,880
Speaker 1: people former members of the intelligence community on an exercise

1722
01:32:53,880 --> 01:32:56,559
Speaker 1: on trust and media. And it's not just about media

1723
01:32:56,640 --> 01:33:00,960
Speaker 1: and journalists. It's more about the information ecosystem and what

1724
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:04,200
Speaker 1: happens if you have bad intelligence. Like I'm working with

1725
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 1: people who are nervous that the information you know, we

1726
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:10,960
Speaker 1: already know there's a lot of misinformation and disinformation out there,

1727
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:14,920
Speaker 1: and that if we don't figure out clean ways to

1728
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:18,560
Speaker 1: get information, then we're going to make terrible national security decisions.

1729
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:22,840
Speaker 1: Like how bad is the flow of intelligence these days?

1730
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:27,200
Speaker 1: Do you is it in considering sort of how much

1731
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 1: we've alienated some of our key allies, you know, in

1732
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:32,360
Speaker 1: the in the world of the Five Eyes, all the

1733
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:37,520
Speaker 1: English language allies of ours that I get the impression

1734
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:40,519
Speaker 1: that there's either concern that, you know, we've got too

1735
01:33:40,520 --> 01:33:43,400
Speaker 1: many leaks in our system or all of our stuff.

1736
01:33:43,439 --> 01:33:47,000
Speaker 1: There's one country in particular that gets access to intelligence

1737
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:49,880
Speaker 1: without telling them what what is? What do you feel

1738
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:53,960
Speaker 1: like is the state of America, the American the intelligence

1739
01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:59,120
Speaker 1: that are are the intelligence community is getting these days?

1740
01:34:00,120 --> 01:34:02,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? I appreciate that question more than you know, and

1741
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:06,440
Speaker 2: you know, would would love to have an extended conversation

1742
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 2: about it, because I think that there are a lot

1743
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:13,680
Speaker 2: of different forces that are polluting the information environment and

1744
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:17,280
Speaker 2: leading to very poor information hygiene, not just in you know,

1745
01:34:17,400 --> 01:34:21,760
Speaker 2: our federal government with policymakers, but with our kids, and

1746
01:34:21,800 --> 01:34:25,560
Speaker 2: with with school age kids and people in university and

1747
01:34:25,720 --> 01:34:29,639
Speaker 2: and everything else. I would just turn to Russia as

1748
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 2: an example of this. During COVID, you may recall some

1749
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:36,360
Speaker 2: of these images of Vladimir Putin setting at the end

1750
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:38,400
Speaker 2: of a you know, a thirty foot table and an

1751
01:34:38,439 --> 01:34:41,439
Speaker 2: advisor you know, at the other end, and I, you know,

1752
01:34:41,479 --> 01:34:44,760
Speaker 2: equipped at the time that he had entered the late

1753
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:49,120
Speaker 2: stage Howard Hughes phase of his government, his governing.

1754
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:51,559
Speaker 1: Have you noticed his nails are suddenly super long?

1755
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:54,320
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, right yet? Yeah, well, when he grows a beard,

1756
01:34:54,360 --> 01:34:59,400
Speaker 2: we'll know that the transformation leaden beard. Yeah, yeah, but

1757
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:04,840
Speaker 2: it is it is an isolated autocrat who behaves the

1758
01:35:04,840 --> 01:35:07,559
Speaker 2: way that he did during COVID, who also then makes

1759
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:11,080
Speaker 2: the decision to invade Ukraine. And when you listen to

1760
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:14,840
Speaker 2: Vladimir Putins speak about, you know, his reasons for invading Ukraine. Yes,

1761
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:19,680
Speaker 2: he has this sort of imperialistic worldview about Russia and

1762
01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:21,960
Speaker 2: you know, glory of Russia and all these sorts of things.

1763
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:25,240
Speaker 2: But he also routinely just says things that are untrue,

1764
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:28,760
Speaker 2: and you don't know if that's propaganda. I believe at

1765
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:32,280
Speaker 2: this point that Vladimir Putin's information environment has become massively

1766
01:35:32,280 --> 01:35:40,800
Speaker 2: polluted because everybody in the Siliviki and the intelligence community

1767
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:43,000
Speaker 2: in Russia has figured out that like, this is what

1768
01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:45,120
Speaker 2: this man believes, this is what this man wants to hear,

1769
01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:48,280
Speaker 2: and that's what they tell him, and he's manipulated in

1770
01:35:48,320 --> 01:35:52,599
Speaker 2: those ways. So there are very real examples of the

1771
01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:56,720
Speaker 2: consequences of that type of government that we see with

1772
01:35:56,880 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 2: Russia and the atrocities that are being committed in Ukraine.

1773
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:03,479
Speaker 2: So let's go from Russia to the US intelligence community,

1774
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:07,479
Speaker 2: and then I'll just finish my response with kids. My

1775
01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:09,599
Speaker 2: security clearance was revoked, as we talked about it at

1776
01:36:09,640 --> 01:36:11,960
Speaker 2: the top of the show, and it was revoked because

1777
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:14,080
Speaker 2: I said something mean about Donald Trump six years ago,

1778
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:15,839
Speaker 2: and because they found out I was going to exercise

1779
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:19,439
Speaker 2: political speech by potentially, you know, by considering a run

1780
01:36:19,479 --> 01:36:20,360
Speaker 2: for the US Senate.

1781
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:23,960
Speaker 1: Just astablishing something you said six years ago. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

1782
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:25,920
Speaker 1: that's what they us. I mean, that is just like

1783
01:36:26,120 --> 01:36:28,800
Speaker 1: thought police stuff. That's write out all the while. Yeah,

1784
01:36:28,880 --> 01:36:30,080
Speaker 1: it truly is.

1785
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:32,360
Speaker 2: And uh, you know it was right wing Twitter that

1786
01:36:32,439 --> 01:36:34,880
Speaker 2: started that dug up some of this and started attacking me,

1787
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:38,360
Speaker 2: And then I guess right wing Twitter runs our intelligence community.

1788
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:40,800
Speaker 2: Now it's a very dangerous thing. Or a loomer the

1789
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:45,080
Speaker 2: CIA chief apparently, Yeah, exactly, And so what do I

1790
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:47,320
Speaker 2: think the follow on effects of something like what happened

1791
01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:49,160
Speaker 2: to me? But it is since I mean James Comy

1792
01:36:49,200 --> 01:36:53,040
Speaker 2: being indicted and other people who were actively serving in

1793
01:36:53,080 --> 01:36:57,840
Speaker 2: the CIA being walked out by security because they ended

1794
01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:00,519
Speaker 2: up on some list that nobody knows how well. So

1795
01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:04,719
Speaker 2: this is going to and perhaps already has a massive

1796
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:07,200
Speaker 2: chilling effect throughout our federal government. And it's not just

1797
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:09,519
Speaker 2: the intelligence community. I mean Donald Trump went to war

1798
01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:12,679
Speaker 2: with a weather forecast during his first administration. We might

1799
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:15,439
Speaker 2: recall where he modified the course of a map rather

1800
01:37:15,479 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 2: than just saying, you know, I accidentally added an extra

1801
01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:20,920
Speaker 2: state in my comment. Right, So, up and down the

1802
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:23,040
Speaker 2: civil service, you have people who know that if they

1803
01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:26,160
Speaker 2: speak truth to power like they're supposed to, they're just

1804
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:28,400
Speaker 2: going to be out a job. And so that is

1805
01:37:28,479 --> 01:37:32,679
Speaker 2: dangerous for national security. It's dangerous for domestic security to

1806
01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 2: not have expertise in the civil service, and.

1807
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:38,040
Speaker 1: What would you do if you're in that situation? You

1808
01:37:38,040 --> 01:37:42,479
Speaker 1: know you have the So literally a week before the

1809
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:45,320
Speaker 1: head of Southern Command decided to resign rather than carry

1810
01:37:45,320 --> 01:37:47,599
Speaker 1: out these orders on these on these Venezuela on these

1811
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:51,320
Speaker 1: boats outside of the coast of Venezuela. I'd ask Jim Stavertez,

1812
01:37:51,360 --> 01:37:54,160
Speaker 1: former NATA supremat like commander, former head of Southern Command.

1813
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:56,200
Speaker 1: I said, what happens if you get an order you're

1814
01:37:56,240 --> 01:37:56,960
Speaker 1: not on our pcent?

1815
01:37:57,000 --> 01:38:01,000
Speaker 2: Sure is legal? Right? We know we know that. You

1816
01:38:01,040 --> 01:38:03,439
Speaker 2: know if if you follow an illegal order, you're going

1817
01:38:03,479 --> 01:38:05,760
Speaker 2: to be held accountable to right. We have made that

1818
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:07,360
Speaker 2: clear in our in our law.

1819
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:10,280
Speaker 1: And he goes, well, you would, he goes, I'd probably

1820
01:38:10,320 --> 01:38:13,080
Speaker 1: resign and not go public about why I resign.

1821
01:38:13,120 --> 01:38:14,120
Speaker 2: I'd simply resign.

1822
01:38:14,479 --> 01:38:17,640
Speaker 1: Let others And you know, there's there's this sort of

1823
01:38:18,080 --> 01:38:21,479
Speaker 1: there's always that that sort of a would you if

1824
01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:23,759
Speaker 1: you were in a similar situation, would you simply resign?

1825
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:27,200
Speaker 1: Would you resign with a bullhorn or do you try

1826
01:38:27,240 --> 01:38:29,360
Speaker 1: to keep working within the system Because it feels like

1827
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:31,479
Speaker 1: there's no there's no perfect answer here.

1828
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:36,000
Speaker 2: There is not, and I just want your listeners and

1829
01:38:36,080 --> 01:38:39,160
Speaker 2: American voters at large to understand that the admirals and

1830
01:38:39,200 --> 01:38:42,839
Speaker 2: the generals and the private first classes, they're the privates

1831
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:45,800
Speaker 2: first class. They're not coming to save you. If you

1832
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:48,639
Speaker 2: think there is some massive resistance that's going to build

1833
01:38:48,720 --> 01:38:51,280
Speaker 2: up in this way, you are mistaken. And it's because

1834
01:38:51,320 --> 01:38:55,200
Speaker 2: these are gut wrenching decisions that have extreme amounts of

1835
01:38:55,240 --> 01:38:56,840
Speaker 2: personal consequence to you.

1836
01:38:56,920 --> 01:38:59,439
Speaker 1: The culture it tells you, look, if you've got an issue,

1837
01:38:59,479 --> 01:39:02,120
Speaker 1: then you go ahead and resign, but you need to

1838
01:39:02,120 --> 01:39:03,960
Speaker 1: do it on your terms, right, Yeah.

1839
01:39:03,720 --> 01:39:07,320
Speaker 2: And civil servants have an obligation I think, to resign

1840
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:10,200
Speaker 2: rather than you know, carry out those things. Whether they

1841
01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:12,439
Speaker 2: speak about it at public or not would depend on like, well,

1842
01:39:12,479 --> 01:39:14,240
Speaker 2: this is a super classified thing. What can I say?

1843
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:18,400
Speaker 2: You know, there's whistleblower things. We have ostensibly protections in

1844
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:19,280
Speaker 2: this country.

1845
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:21,719
Speaker 1: For that, but you're still all of those inspectors general,

1846
01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:25,320
Speaker 1: so it's not even clear who you would report violations.

1847
01:39:24,720 --> 01:39:27,640
Speaker 2: Of the constitution to. Yeah, exactly. In the military, you

1848
01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:29,880
Speaker 2: don't have the luxury of always just being able to resign,

1849
01:39:29,960 --> 01:39:31,800
Speaker 2: you know, admirals and generals and those sorts of things,

1850
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:35,520
Speaker 2: or at various stages of their you know, contractual commitments

1851
01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:38,800
Speaker 2: to the country, but they can you know, resign and

1852
01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:39,800
Speaker 2: make a show of it.

1853
01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:41,400
Speaker 1: Look, the fact that the head of Southern camp and

1854
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:43,439
Speaker 1: resign should have been a much bigger deal with the

1855
01:39:43,439 --> 01:39:44,160
Speaker 1: American public.

1856
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:45,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't think we.

1857
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:48,320
Speaker 1: I don't think that whatever's left of legacy media made

1858
01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:49,360
Speaker 1: a big enough deal about it.

1859
01:39:49,760 --> 01:39:53,519
Speaker 2: No, And the Defense Intelligence Agency, who you know, the

1860
01:39:53,880 --> 01:39:57,439
Speaker 2: director there also gone because of you know, questioning the

1861
01:39:57,479 --> 01:40:01,559
Speaker 2: efficacy of the military strikes that we on Iran. So

1862
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:03,439
Speaker 2: there are a lot of a lot of things there,

1863
01:40:03,479 --> 01:40:05,720
Speaker 2: and there are a lot of problems. But I do

1864
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:08,160
Speaker 2: think that, you know, you do have obligations to not

1865
01:40:08,200 --> 01:40:11,000
Speaker 2: carry out lawful orders. And it's easy for me to

1866
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 2: say from the cheap seats over here at the stage

1867
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:16,240
Speaker 2: of my life, I only, you know, hope that I

1868
01:40:16,280 --> 01:40:18,280
Speaker 2: would have had the courage of putting the same situation

1869
01:40:18,400 --> 01:40:20,439
Speaker 2: that i'm that I am asking other people to exhibit

1870
01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:20,760
Speaker 2: a day.

1871
01:40:22,439 --> 01:40:24,400
Speaker 1: Joe Willett, it's been a pleasure to get to know you.

1872
01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:28,760
Speaker 1: I sort of you come at this with a with

1873
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:31,760
Speaker 1: a style that that is very appealing to me, I hope.

1874
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:34,800
Speaker 1: But in that you seem like you think this stuff through.

1875
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 1: It seems like you think before you speak. There's not

1876
01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:39,679
Speaker 1: many politicians that do that these days.

1877
01:40:40,080 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I try. Chuck's been watching you for years. You know,

1878
01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:45,800
Speaker 2: I've only probably yelled at you through the television a

1879
01:40:45,800 --> 01:40:49,559
Speaker 2: few times, but you know, really appreciate you having me

1880
01:40:49,600 --> 01:40:51,599
Speaker 2: on and for having a thoughtful conversation. I am.

1881
01:40:51,760 --> 01:40:55,800
Speaker 1: I am a as I say. It's like, I'm as

1882
01:40:55,800 --> 01:40:57,400
Speaker 1: long as you're not yelling at me the whole time.

1883
01:40:58,240 --> 01:41:03,760
Speaker 2: I didn't. Yeah, and my campaign, and my campaign will

1884
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:05,160
Speaker 2: fire me if I don't remind people to go to

1885
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:09,160
Speaker 2: Joelferkentucky dot com if you're at all interested in supporting

1886
01:41:09,200 --> 01:41:09,559
Speaker 2: this camp.

1887
01:41:09,880 --> 01:41:12,880
Speaker 1: Are you concerned that the big money people in DC

1888
01:41:13,400 --> 01:41:15,800
Speaker 1: won't invest in Kentucky because of what happened in twenty

1889
01:41:15,800 --> 01:41:17,120
Speaker 1: twenty with all that money.

1890
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:22,160
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm very concerned about that. You know, we invested

1891
01:41:22,200 --> 01:41:24,519
Speaker 2: on you know, ninety four million dollars in the in

1892
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:28,439
Speaker 2: the race here and got results worse than we'd ever

1893
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:32,439
Speaker 2: gotten before, and I think that is on people's mind spot.

1894
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:35,360
Speaker 2: There's an important difference here now. Andy Basheer has shown

1895
01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:37,920
Speaker 2: this path to victory, and we just have to have

1896
01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:39,240
Speaker 2: the right candidate walk down that.

1897
01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:43,719
Speaker 1: Path, Joe Willett, We'll be watching your primary, that's for sure.

1898
01:41:44,240 --> 01:41:46,080
Speaker 1: I know fairly early, right may right.

1899
01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:50,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, leave me soon that is that is six months

1900
01:41:50,600 --> 01:41:53,360
Speaker 2: are going to fly by, so be safe for the trail.

1901
01:41:53,760 --> 01:42:01,760
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Chack, have you got it well?

1902
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:04,400
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Joe Willett. I

1903
01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:08,479
Speaker 1: know I'll be following his candidacy to see see how

1904
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 1: that all works out. So, speaking of the Senate, it

1905
01:42:11,080 --> 01:42:13,879
Speaker 1: is that time I said every month I would update

1906
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:22,800
Speaker 1: my top five, top five, top top top five, just

1907
01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:25,760
Speaker 1: a reminder in October and the way I do this

1908
01:42:26,320 --> 01:42:28,120
Speaker 1: and my ranks have been doing this since I wrote

1909
01:42:28,640 --> 01:42:31,559
Speaker 1: a column called on the Trail back during my National

1910
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:35,280
Speaker 1: Journal dot com outline days, which was I like to

1911
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:39,280
Speaker 1: order these races are most likely to flip parties, so

1912
01:42:39,800 --> 01:42:42,760
Speaker 1: not in the toss up Lean ar Lean d category,

1913
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:46,320
Speaker 1: but most likely to flip to least likely to flip. Obviously,

1914
01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:48,960
Speaker 1: by keeping it to five, you know all of them

1915
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:51,600
Speaker 1: are going to be somewhat competitive races that crack the

1916
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:52,120
Speaker 1: top five.

1917
01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:54,080
Speaker 2: So to remind you, the last.

1918
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:57,040
Speaker 1: Time my top five was North Carolina one, Georgia two,

1919
01:42:57,439 --> 01:43:00,360
Speaker 1: Michigan three, Main four, New Hampshire five.

1920
01:43:00,479 --> 01:43:02,160
Speaker 2: So the idea was I.

1921
01:43:02,120 --> 01:43:06,879
Speaker 1: Had the assumption was the open seat in North Carolina

1922
01:43:07,640 --> 01:43:10,840
Speaker 1: with the big recruit there. North Carolina, Georgia's the Democratic

1923
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:13,360
Speaker 1: health seat of John Ossoff. Michigan, of course, the open

1924
01:43:13,400 --> 01:43:17,719
Speaker 1: seat Gary Peters Democrat is vacating. Maine is Susan Collins.

1925
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:23,160
Speaker 1: New Hampshire is the Gene Shaheen seat that she is vacating,

1926
01:43:23,160 --> 01:43:27,639
Speaker 1: a Democratic seat there. So look my new top five.

1927
01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:32,040
Speaker 1: In some ways, number one hasn't changed. The most likely

1928
01:43:32,280 --> 01:43:36,280
Speaker 1: seat to flip is North Carolina. It is an open seat.

1929
01:43:36,320 --> 01:43:39,000
Speaker 1: It is the one open seat, you know, one of

1930
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:42,200
Speaker 1: two open seats in the big seven battleground states. Right,

1931
01:43:42,240 --> 01:43:45,519
Speaker 1: The big seven battleground states are Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina,

1932
01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:49,479
Speaker 1: Nevada in sort of the sun Belt, and Wisconsin, Michigan,

1933
01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:52,680
Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania. And so when you look at the competitive

1934
01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:57,479
Speaker 1: Senate map these days, there's actually, you know, the last

1935
01:43:57,520 --> 01:44:00,519
Speaker 1: two cycles, they all seven of those states. We had,

1936
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:02,200
Speaker 1: I think two cycles in a row. We either had

1937
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:04,479
Speaker 1: seven for seven or six of the seven with Senate

1938
01:44:04,520 --> 01:44:07,320
Speaker 1: seats this time, right, we'd have nothing in Arizona, nothing

1939
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:10,479
Speaker 1: in Nevada, there's one seat in Georgia, one seat in

1940
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:14,519
Speaker 1: North Carolina, nothing in Pennsylvania, nothing in Wisconsin, and one

1941
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:17,280
Speaker 1: seat in Michigan. So it is the presidential battlegrounds. This

1942
01:44:17,320 --> 01:44:20,720
Speaker 1: happens to be the one cycle where we have the

1943
01:44:20,760 --> 01:44:23,760
Speaker 1: fewest amount of Senate seats in the presidential battlegrounds. But

1944
01:44:23,760 --> 01:44:26,080
Speaker 1: I think you still have to put you know, I

1945
01:44:26,120 --> 01:44:30,600
Speaker 1: think what I learned from the twenty twenty five elections,

1946
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:35,040
Speaker 1: and again history being a guide. Every time we've seen

1947
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:40,240
Speaker 1: a route like this by one party, we have seen

1948
01:44:40,360 --> 01:44:45,040
Speaker 1: that continue in the following even numbered year. I am

1949
01:44:45,120 --> 01:44:48,360
Speaker 1: looking for the time. I mean, twenty thirteen is one

1950
01:44:48,360 --> 01:44:50,880
Speaker 1: of the few exceptions where Democrats did well in the

1951
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:54,720
Speaker 1: off off year, but that did not translate to twenty fourteen,

1952
01:44:55,280 --> 01:44:57,760
Speaker 1: which was not a good year for Democrats in there

1953
01:44:57,760 --> 01:45:00,559
Speaker 1: and again right there was there's a HEAs in twenty

1954
01:45:00,560 --> 01:45:02,920
Speaker 1: thirteen is the exception to every single one of these

1955
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:06,200
Speaker 1: trend lines we've been talking about with New Jersey and Virginia,

1956
01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:09,840
Speaker 1: et cetera. And you know, certain things I think that

1957
01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:13,640
Speaker 1: I took away from the off off years. One, Democrats

1958
01:45:13,640 --> 01:45:17,200
Speaker 1: are ready to vote, and you know, the sheer raw

1959
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:20,720
Speaker 1: number of votes that the Democratic candidate got in New

1960
01:45:20,760 --> 01:45:23,599
Speaker 1: Jersey versus the Republican candidate continues to blow me away.

1961
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:26,880
Speaker 1: I think it's the single most important statistic that you

1962
01:45:27,000 --> 01:45:29,920
Speaker 1: need to understand coming out of these off off year elections.

1963
01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:30,400
Speaker 2: Right.

1964
01:45:30,640 --> 01:45:33,760
Speaker 1: Jack Chittarelli, the Republican nominee for governor, actually got one

1965
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:37,120
Speaker 1: hundred thousand more votes than he received in twenty twenty one.

1966
01:45:37,200 --> 01:45:40,080
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, that vote total was good enough

1967
01:45:40,080 --> 01:45:43,479
Speaker 1: to only lose by three percentage points. In twenty twenty five,

1968
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:47,800
Speaker 1: where he got more votes, he loses by thirteen percentage points.

1969
01:45:48,280 --> 01:45:51,519
Speaker 1: The Democratic candidate Mikey Cheryl got four hundred thousand more

1970
01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:54,719
Speaker 1: votes than Phil Murphy got in twenty twenty one. Okay,

1971
01:45:55,520 --> 01:45:58,559
Speaker 1: that tells you a whole bunch of Democrats who didn't

1972
01:45:58,600 --> 01:46:01,120
Speaker 1: bother to show up in twenty one decided to show

1973
01:46:01,200 --> 01:46:04,080
Speaker 1: up in twenty five. I don't think I had anything

1974
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:07,400
Speaker 1: to do with Mikey Cheryl and Jeck Chodarelly, and everything

1975
01:46:07,400 --> 01:46:11,240
Speaker 1: to do with the larger national environment. By the way,

1976
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:14,640
Speaker 1: we got that result on Tuesday. If you recall the

1977
01:46:14,760 --> 01:46:17,040
Speaker 1: NBC News poll that came out two days earlier that

1978
01:46:17,200 --> 01:46:19,120
Speaker 1: I am a big believer of because I trust those

1979
01:46:19,120 --> 01:46:21,600
Speaker 1: two pollsters. They had a generic ballot lead for the

1980
01:46:21,640 --> 01:46:23,680
Speaker 1: Democrats of eight points. It was the largest lead that

1981
01:46:23,720 --> 01:46:26,880
Speaker 1: Democrats had going back to twenty seventeen. Twenty eighteen cycle,

1982
01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:30,519
Speaker 1: another pretty good cycle for Democrats. So I throw all

1983
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:32,599
Speaker 1: that in there in that my new top five list

1984
01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:37,920
Speaker 1: is skewed a bit towards the Democrats. So number one

1985
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:41,599
Speaker 1: hasn't changed. That's North Carolina. It's not going to change.

1986
01:46:41,720 --> 01:46:43,960
Speaker 1: But my number two has. I had Georgia's the second

1987
01:46:44,040 --> 01:46:47,040
Speaker 1: most vulnerable seat. After seeing what we saw with those

1988
01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:49,639
Speaker 1: Public Service Commission races where there was no money spent

1989
01:46:49,720 --> 01:46:53,639
Speaker 1: and Democrats just generically won by a lot, you've got

1990
01:46:54,640 --> 01:46:59,800
Speaker 1: a growing divisive Republican primary. I highlighted an add a

1991
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:02,560
Speaker 1: couple of podcasts ago where Derek Dooley, the son of

1992
01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:05,600
Speaker 1: Vince Dooley, the former football coach of the Bulldogs, that

1993
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:08,599
Speaker 1: the super pack of Brian Kemp, the sitting governor, was

1994
01:47:09,920 --> 01:47:11,640
Speaker 1: running an ad that sort of lumped in the two

1995
01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:15,880
Speaker 1: Republican congressmen in the primary and osof as all responsible

1996
01:47:15,920 --> 01:47:18,439
Speaker 1: for the shutdown. So you now know what kind of

1997
01:47:18,560 --> 01:47:21,200
Speaker 1: campaign Dooley is going to run as the outsider, the

1998
01:47:21,200 --> 01:47:24,360
Speaker 1: anti Washington crowd. I think it's a smart place to

1999
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:29,560
Speaker 1: position himself at this point. Though, if Dooley is the nominee,

2000
01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:32,800
Speaker 1: I think Osoff's in bigger trouble. But if Dooley is

2001
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:35,519
Speaker 1: not the nominee, and so far he's still the third

2002
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:39,439
Speaker 1: place candidate, I think Osoff is a bit safer than

2003
01:47:39,880 --> 01:47:41,960
Speaker 1: I preps. Look, he's still in the top five, but

2004
01:47:42,040 --> 01:47:46,639
Speaker 1: he is not number two most vulnerable. I think now

2005
01:47:46,680 --> 01:47:48,600
Speaker 1: you have to put in the second most vulnerable.

2006
01:47:48,240 --> 01:47:48,960
Speaker 2: Susan Collins.

2007
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:53,880
Speaker 1: I do move Susan Collins up into the second slot there.

2008
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:58,000
Speaker 1: I think when you see what the Democratic turnouts was

2009
01:47:58,080 --> 01:48:01,120
Speaker 1: in the Northeast in general, you see the fact that

2010
01:48:03,160 --> 01:48:06,759
Speaker 1: in some ways the strength of the oyster farmer Graham Platner,

2011
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:12,080
Speaker 1: the fact that his support is holding and it's not

2012
01:48:12,280 --> 01:48:14,760
Speaker 1: hurting the Democrats. The fact that Jay Jones got through

2013
01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:18,200
Speaker 1: what he got through in Virginia, I think is only

2014
01:48:18,200 --> 01:48:22,439
Speaker 1: going to serve to reassure Platner on there. The anti

2015
01:48:22,520 --> 01:48:25,400
Speaker 1: Schumer vibe, the anti establishment vibe, seems to be much

2016
01:48:25,439 --> 01:48:28,920
Speaker 1: stronger than the anti character vibe inside the Democratic Party

2017
01:48:29,000 --> 01:48:33,439
Speaker 1: right now. And you know Collins is going to be

2018
01:48:33,479 --> 01:48:37,400
Speaker 1: defending a bunch of status quo stuff it is. You know,

2019
01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:40,400
Speaker 1: do I think if Janet Mills is the Democratic nominee,

2020
01:48:40,439 --> 01:48:44,519
Speaker 1: Collins has a better chance of winning. I do, believe

2021
01:48:44,560 --> 01:48:46,479
Speaker 1: it or not, but I still think it's going to

2022
01:48:46,479 --> 01:48:48,439
Speaker 1: be it's going to be a hard time being an

2023
01:48:48,439 --> 01:48:52,840
Speaker 1: incumbent Republican running in twenty twenty six with this likely

2024
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:57,000
Speaker 1: economy that we're staring at and the way Donald Trump

2025
01:48:57,080 --> 01:49:02,320
Speaker 1: is positioning the party's brand right, And while Susan Collins

2026
01:49:02,439 --> 01:49:04,560
Speaker 1: is never going to be mistaken for a Trump Republican,

2027
01:49:05,280 --> 01:49:07,920
Speaker 1: she's still going to have to carry around some of

2028
01:49:07,960 --> 01:49:10,559
Speaker 1: that baggage, some of that baggage on tariffs, some of

2029
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:13,519
Speaker 1: that baggage on health. I mean, she's probably going to

2030
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:16,240
Speaker 1: be the loan Republican, you know, one of now she

2031
01:49:16,280 --> 01:49:18,559
Speaker 1: won't be the loan Republicans. She's going to be one

2032
01:49:18,600 --> 01:49:22,280
Speaker 1: of the lead Republicans trying to get these Obamacare subsidies extended,

2033
01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:26,200
Speaker 1: because if they do not get extended, she's done. She's

2034
01:49:26,320 --> 01:49:30,559
Speaker 1: completely done. Which is why I am bullish that you

2035
01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:33,720
Speaker 1: will see a one year extension at a minimum of

2036
01:49:33,760 --> 01:49:37,439
Speaker 1: these Obamacare subsidies, because I think there is no senator

2037
01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:40,280
Speaker 1: that would be more vulnerable to a decision not to

2038
01:49:40,320 --> 01:49:44,160
Speaker 1: do that than Susan Collins. So number one is North Carolina.

2039
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:50,920
Speaker 1: Number two is main Number three I am going to

2040
01:49:51,000 --> 01:49:53,960
Speaker 1: put Georgia. I still think that there is certainly, you

2041
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:58,880
Speaker 1: know it is it is a even state. We've still

2042
01:49:58,920 --> 01:50:02,879
Speaker 1: not seen, you know, a demo until these psc elections.

2043
01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:06,400
Speaker 1: We hadn't see a Democrat went a down ballot statewide

2044
01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 1: contest in Georgia going back more than ten years. But

2045
01:50:12,080 --> 01:50:15,479
Speaker 1: the entire political environment in Georgia. I mean, if Georgia

2046
01:50:15,560 --> 01:50:19,719
Speaker 1: is indeed you know, I've been vacillating, was Georgia anti

2047
01:50:19,760 --> 01:50:23,439
Speaker 1: Trump state or is Georgia simply a swing state that

2048
01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:27,240
Speaker 1: demographics have been shifting over time? And I think there's

2049
01:50:27,280 --> 01:50:30,120
Speaker 1: now more and more evidence that this is a This

2050
01:50:30,200 --> 01:50:32,880
Speaker 1: is a realignment in Georgia. This is the growth of

2051
01:50:32,880 --> 01:50:35,680
Speaker 1: the Atlanta suburbs, This is all of those things that

2052
01:50:35,800 --> 01:50:40,400
Speaker 1: this is less about. And it may be what we're

2053
01:50:40,400 --> 01:50:43,600
Speaker 1: seeing in the Atlanta metro areas. What we saw in

2054
01:50:43,640 --> 01:50:47,040
Speaker 1: northern Virginia that went from being an important pocket of

2055
01:50:47,120 --> 01:50:51,439
Speaker 1: voters for Virginia Democrats to becoming the most dominant feature

2056
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:54,639
Speaker 1: of the state and of the politics of the state.

2057
01:50:55,240 --> 01:50:57,240
Speaker 1: And I think we're starting to starting to see more

2058
01:50:57,280 --> 01:50:59,080
Speaker 1: and more of that in Georgia. But I'm still going

2059
01:50:59,160 --> 01:51:02,599
Speaker 1: to put it. I'm still going to put it right

2060
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:09,559
Speaker 1: now in the third slot because because of the fact

2061
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:12,840
Speaker 1: that this time Osof isn't going to have be running

2062
01:51:12,840 --> 01:51:16,120
Speaker 1: with Rafael Warnock or a presidential campaign, right, He's got

2063
01:51:16,160 --> 01:51:20,960
Speaker 1: to do this entire turnout operation on his own.

2064
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:21,240
Speaker 2: There.

2065
01:51:22,240 --> 01:51:27,439
Speaker 1: So North Carolina one Main three, Georgia Main two, Georgia three,

2066
01:51:28,160 --> 01:51:30,479
Speaker 1: number four on the less, I'm gonna put Michigan, so

2067
01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:34,840
Speaker 1: it drops down a slot because I've jumped started Maine there.

2068
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:41,439
Speaker 1: And look, I do think Mike Rodgers is he went

2069
01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:45,000
Speaker 1: down a weird road. He decided to claim that somehow

2070
01:51:45,080 --> 01:51:48,280
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four election was rigged, that it or

2071
01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:52,160
Speaker 1: he's implying he's opening the door to some conspiracy theories

2072
01:51:52,200 --> 01:51:56,280
Speaker 1: as to why he lost in twenty twenty four. Boy,

2073
01:51:56,320 --> 01:51:58,400
Speaker 1: that's a long way away from the Mike Rogers I

2074
01:51:58,439 --> 01:52:02,600
Speaker 1: first started covering when he was in It's going to

2075
01:52:02,680 --> 01:52:05,960
Speaker 1: come as a surprise, I given that he doesn't really

2076
01:52:05,960 --> 01:52:08,880
Speaker 1: have any serious primary opposition, the fact that he's going

2077
01:52:08,920 --> 01:52:12,120
Speaker 1: down this sort of Trump grievance road on his twenty

2078
01:52:12,160 --> 01:52:15,280
Speaker 1: four election is a bit of a head scratcher. Doesn't

2079
01:52:15,360 --> 01:52:17,200
Speaker 1: seem as if he needs to be catering to that

2080
01:52:17,240 --> 01:52:21,360
Speaker 1: primary voter that enthusiastically. So perhaps he really believes this,

2081
01:52:21,479 --> 01:52:24,400
Speaker 1: Perhaps he's going down this rabbit hole. I don't think

2082
01:52:24,439 --> 01:52:30,000
Speaker 1: that's good politics for him, but you know, he's still

2083
01:52:30,160 --> 01:52:33,000
Speaker 1: the reason I still give him and why I think

2084
01:52:33,040 --> 01:52:35,160
Speaker 1: Michigan could be very competitive is We're going to have

2085
01:52:35,200 --> 01:52:39,879
Speaker 1: a very messy Democratic primary. Who knows who gets elected?

2086
01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:41,880
Speaker 1: Is that the super progressive that gets elected is that

2087
01:52:42,000 --> 01:52:48,280
Speaker 1: the outsider and lsied is the progressive. McMorrow is the

2088
01:52:48,360 --> 01:52:52,680
Speaker 1: sort of outsider. Stevens is the establishment candidate. They've all

2089
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:56,719
Speaker 1: scrambled to be anti Schumer now, even Stevens on that front.

2090
01:52:56,800 --> 01:52:59,879
Speaker 1: So that primary could get messy, and it's an August primary,

2091
01:53:01,120 --> 01:53:03,800
Speaker 1: and it means that rogers Is should be in a

2092
01:53:03,840 --> 01:53:07,400
Speaker 1: strong position. But I am I do think that's a

2093
01:53:07,439 --> 01:53:10,479
Speaker 1: loser to go down the conspiracy road in a swing

2094
01:53:10,520 --> 01:53:12,920
Speaker 1: state like Michigan. And then I'm putting a new seat

2095
01:53:12,960 --> 01:53:15,040
Speaker 1: at number five. I had New Hampshire in the top

2096
01:53:15,080 --> 01:53:17,240
Speaker 1: five before. No longer am I putting New Hampshire there

2097
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:20,360
Speaker 1: because I think the political environment indicates that it's more

2098
01:53:20,439 --> 01:53:23,120
Speaker 1: likely another Republican health seat is going to fall before

2099
01:53:23,120 --> 01:53:25,720
Speaker 1: a Democratic health seat. And look, I think Johnson new

2100
01:53:25,760 --> 01:53:29,040
Speaker 1: is a much stronger candidate than Scott Brown potentially in

2101
01:53:29,120 --> 01:53:33,000
Speaker 1: an open seat. But if the wind is blowing left,

2102
01:53:33,720 --> 01:53:36,680
Speaker 1: New Hampshire goes with the wind right, you know you

2103
01:53:36,720 --> 01:53:38,799
Speaker 1: can still get elected as a Republican in New Hampshire,

2104
01:53:38,840 --> 01:53:41,360
Speaker 1: which it needs to be in a either even or

2105
01:53:41,400 --> 01:53:44,320
Speaker 1: good Republican year. I don't know if this is a

2106
01:53:44,360 --> 01:53:47,920
Speaker 1: winnable race for any Republican Chris or Johnson unhu. If

2107
01:53:47,920 --> 01:53:50,960
Speaker 1: the wind is blowing as strongly for the Democrats in

2108
01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:53,840
Speaker 1: twenty six as it was blowing for the Democrats in

2109
01:53:53,840 --> 01:53:57,280
Speaker 1: New Jersey and in Virginia in twenty five, I can

2110
01:53:57,360 --> 01:54:02,840
Speaker 1: just tell you that it knew it. The odds are

2111
01:54:03,080 --> 01:54:07,320
Speaker 1: it's going to look more more like a blue state

2112
01:54:08,240 --> 01:54:11,240
Speaker 1: in an environment like this than it will a swing state.

2113
01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 1: So my new number five is Shared Brown and Ohio.

2114
01:54:16,200 --> 01:54:19,800
Speaker 1: John Houstad is the appointed elected senator there. He's been

2115
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:22,720
Speaker 1: doing quite well in some of his union endorsements and

2116
01:54:22,840 --> 01:54:26,000
Speaker 1: getting a few union endorsements at Shared Brown, and when

2117
01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:31,000
Speaker 1: he was an incumbent senator would get but if you

2118
01:54:31,280 --> 01:54:34,520
Speaker 1: just shift, if you believe the electorate in general is

2119
01:54:34,520 --> 01:54:36,400
Speaker 1: just going to be five points better across the board

2120
01:54:36,440 --> 01:54:39,960
Speaker 1: for Democrats, like it was in Virginia, that basically makes

2121
01:54:39,960 --> 01:54:43,760
Speaker 1: Ohio a coin flip. And what we learned about Shared

2122
01:54:43,800 --> 01:54:46,640
Speaker 1: Brown in twenty four is he can run three to

2123
01:54:46,720 --> 01:54:51,080
Speaker 1: five points ahead of the Democratic of the generic Democratic number.

2124
01:54:51,600 --> 01:54:54,360
Speaker 1: He can't run it eight or nine points ahead of

2125
01:54:54,400 --> 01:54:58,960
Speaker 1: a Democratic presidential candidate. He's running in a midterm years.

2126
01:54:59,280 --> 01:55:01,640
Speaker 1: He has had more success running in midterm years than

2127
01:55:01,680 --> 01:55:05,960
Speaker 1: he has in presidential years. And he did win once

2128
01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:08,880
Speaker 1: in a presidential year in twenty twelve, but he had

2129
01:55:08,920 --> 01:55:11,160
Speaker 1: that Obama had a lot of wind at his back,

2130
01:55:11,480 --> 01:55:14,320
Speaker 1: and that was quite helpful to him. In twenty eighteen,

2131
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:19,400
Speaker 1: he was able to win in a Trump year thanks to,

2132
01:55:20,720 --> 01:55:24,240
Speaker 1: you know, a combination of a week Republican opponent, but

2133
01:55:24,320 --> 01:55:27,760
Speaker 1: also just again it was a good Democratic year.

2134
01:55:28,280 --> 01:55:30,120
Speaker 2: So at this point I.

2135
01:55:30,040 --> 01:55:32,160
Speaker 1: Put Ohio there, And this means three of the five

2136
01:55:32,720 --> 01:55:36,240
Speaker 1: in my five most vulnerable are Republican held seats. So

2137
01:55:36,320 --> 01:55:40,120
Speaker 1: if Democrats sweep the five hold for Georgian Michigan and

2138
01:55:40,120 --> 01:55:43,280
Speaker 1: flip North Carolina, Maine, in New Hampshire, they are only

2139
01:55:43,320 --> 01:55:46,160
Speaker 1: one seat away from the majority. That's where this top

2140
01:55:46,160 --> 01:55:49,360
Speaker 1: five list sits right now. That's this is why if

2141
01:55:49,400 --> 01:55:55,240
Speaker 1: you want to mess around on the political betting markets,

2142
01:55:55,280 --> 01:55:57,040
Speaker 1: one of the best early bets to make right now,

2143
01:55:57,080 --> 01:55:59,320
Speaker 1: because it's a sheriff stock, and then you could sell

2144
01:55:59,320 --> 01:56:03,320
Speaker 1: that share before the results actually happen. Because if Democrats

2145
01:56:03,560 --> 01:56:06,600
Speaker 1: succeed in good candidate recruits in Alaska, a good candidate

2146
01:56:06,680 --> 01:56:10,920
Speaker 1: in Kansas, you may see them get six or seven

2147
01:56:10,960 --> 01:56:13,640
Speaker 1: Republican held seats in the competitive category.

2148
01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:14,520
Speaker 2: Will they win them all?

2149
01:56:14,600 --> 01:56:19,640
Speaker 1: No, But if they can put Texas, Iowa, Alaska, Kansas, Nebraska,

2150
01:56:19,720 --> 01:56:22,720
Speaker 1: they can put three of those five in play in

2151
01:56:22,720 --> 01:56:25,160
Speaker 1: addition to the three that I think they already now

2152
01:56:25,160 --> 01:56:28,839
Speaker 1: have a either even or slightly better chance at flipping.

2153
01:56:31,080 --> 01:56:32,880
Speaker 1: You you suddenly have.

2154
01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:35,760
Speaker 2: A path to the Senate majority. There you go.

2155
01:56:35,880 --> 01:56:41,040
Speaker 1: The top five list this week. North Carolina, Maine, Georgia, Michigan,

2156
01:56:41,320 --> 01:56:45,080
Speaker 1: Ohio the five Senate states most likely to flip this month.

2157
01:56:45,840 --> 01:56:56,240
Speaker 1: As far as the Chuck todcast is concerned, All right,

2158
01:56:56,280 --> 01:57:02,200
Speaker 1: let's take a couple more questions, ask Chuck. None of

2159
01:57:02,200 --> 01:57:05,240
Speaker 1: these will be shut down and related. This one comes

2160
01:57:05,280 --> 01:57:08,920
Speaker 1: from a third generation Navy vet John B from Saint Louis,

2161
01:57:08,960 --> 01:57:10,880
Speaker 1: and he writes, Hey, thanks for responding to my question

2162
01:57:10,920 --> 01:57:13,920
Speaker 1: about the atomic bowl. All right, so it's not a

2163
01:57:13,960 --> 01:57:16,320
Speaker 1: first time long time, but at least a second time

2164
01:57:16,360 --> 01:57:18,200
Speaker 1: long time. I'm a World War Two in Cold War

2165
01:57:18,280 --> 01:57:20,360
Speaker 1: history buff and I think it's crucial to keep conversations

2166
01:57:20,360 --> 01:57:22,840
Speaker 1: about those times alive in our modern discourse. We live

2167
01:57:22,880 --> 01:57:25,000
Speaker 1: in the shadow of those events. I'm wondering how America

2168
01:57:25,080 --> 01:57:27,320
Speaker 1: might have been different during the past fifty years if

2169
01:57:27,320 --> 01:57:29,320
Speaker 1: we had not ended the draft falling Vietnam. I think

2170
01:57:29,320 --> 01:57:32,760
Speaker 1: we could expand that to include national service in general. Thought, John,

2171
01:57:32,840 --> 01:57:36,800
Speaker 1: you are scratching an itch that I'm constantly dealing with.

2172
01:57:36,920 --> 01:57:41,480
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think not having national service.

2173
01:57:42,160 --> 01:57:47,280
Speaker 1: I think national service could be a huge advancement of

2174
01:57:47,400 --> 01:57:55,760
Speaker 1: trying to depolarize America, right, getting people, getting American citizens

2175
01:57:55,840 --> 01:57:59,240
Speaker 1: to believe that they have to that part of your

2176
01:57:59,280 --> 01:58:02,879
Speaker 1: citizenship is to give a little bit to this country

2177
01:58:02,920 --> 01:58:05,240
Speaker 1: and service. And it doesn't have to be in the military.

2178
01:58:05,240 --> 01:58:07,880
Speaker 1: It can be a variety of ways you can give.

2179
01:58:07,960 --> 01:58:10,400
Speaker 1: It could be working, you know, in home health care

2180
01:58:10,480 --> 01:58:13,600
Speaker 1: for an elderly parent without a close knit family. It

2181
01:58:13,640 --> 01:58:17,200
Speaker 1: could be cleaning up rivers and streams. It could be

2182
01:58:17,320 --> 01:58:23,080
Speaker 1: teaching in underserved communities that need more school teachers. It

2183
01:58:23,120 --> 01:58:27,160
Speaker 1: could simply be tutoring, or it could be military service.

2184
01:58:27,560 --> 01:58:28,280
Speaker 1: I think anything.

2185
01:58:28,600 --> 01:58:29,280
Speaker 2: It's why I.

2186
01:58:29,200 --> 01:58:32,160
Speaker 1: Think that in general, you know, I'm speaking on Veterans

2187
01:58:32,240 --> 01:58:35,200
Speaker 1: Day here. In general, I'm a big advocate of bringing

2188
01:58:35,240 --> 01:58:39,200
Speaker 1: as many veterans as you can into the workforce, into

2189
01:58:39,240 --> 01:58:44,040
Speaker 1: any sort of culture because most military veterans, the experience

2190
01:58:44,200 --> 01:58:47,640
Speaker 1: of being in the military exposed them to people that

2191
01:58:47,880 --> 01:58:51,480
Speaker 1: grew up differently than them, people that worshiped different faiths

2192
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:54,400
Speaker 1: than they did, but they all learn how to have

2193
01:58:54,440 --> 01:58:56,640
Speaker 1: a common mission and buy in some ways wearing the

2194
01:58:56,680 --> 01:59:00,280
Speaker 1: same uniform. They realize when you wear the same uniform

2195
01:59:00,680 --> 01:59:03,600
Speaker 1: you bleed the same red blood, that hey, they're really

2196
01:59:03,680 --> 01:59:09,560
Speaker 1: the differences really are are all surface. They're not They're

2197
01:59:09,600 --> 01:59:12,840
Speaker 1: not very deep at all. So not to sort of

2198
01:59:13,240 --> 01:59:15,200
Speaker 1: try to like, you know, but for the good old

2199
01:59:15,280 --> 01:59:20,960
Speaker 1: days kind of mindset, I'm a I'm a huge advocate

2200
01:59:21,000 --> 01:59:24,720
Speaker 1: of national service, and I think it could be a again,

2201
01:59:25,360 --> 01:59:27,280
Speaker 1: you know, you know, whether it's a way to pay

2202
01:59:27,320 --> 01:59:30,200
Speaker 1: for college. There's all sorts of ways that you create

2203
01:59:30,280 --> 01:59:32,320
Speaker 1: sort of for every year of national you know, maybe

2204
01:59:32,360 --> 01:59:34,280
Speaker 1: everybody has to do one, and every extra year you

2205
01:59:34,320 --> 01:59:36,160
Speaker 1: give you get that much more off of your tuition.

2206
01:59:36,760 --> 01:59:38,760
Speaker 1: But I think there's a lot of ways, you know,

2207
01:59:38,840 --> 01:59:40,520
Speaker 1: or to trade school, whatever you wanted to do it.

2208
01:59:41,480 --> 01:59:45,280
Speaker 1: Anything that we could do to sort of get Americans

2209
01:59:45,280 --> 01:59:47,800
Speaker 1: from different walks of life to have to have to

2210
01:59:47,840 --> 01:59:51,360
Speaker 1: give back for a period of time only strengthens the

2211
01:59:51,400 --> 01:59:53,160
Speaker 1: fabric of this country.

2212
01:59:54,280 --> 01:59:57,280
Speaker 2: So I'm a huge advocate, all right.

2213
01:59:57,400 --> 01:59:59,720
Speaker 1: Next question comes from Chase little Rock, Rockansas and response

2214
01:59:59,760 --> 02:00:01,560
Speaker 1: to your uestion about staying on the thirteenth floor in

2215
02:00:01,600 --> 02:00:04,280
Speaker 1: game day, if a black cat crossed my path while

2216
02:00:04,320 --> 02:00:05,800
Speaker 1: I walked under a ladder on the way out of

2217
02:00:05,800 --> 02:00:08,480
Speaker 1: my thirteenth floor hotel room in Fayetteville, I wouldn't have

2218
02:00:08,480 --> 02:00:11,120
Speaker 1: batted an eye. This razorback football season has already used

2219
02:00:11,200 --> 02:00:13,320
Speaker 1: up every ounce of luck in the entire state. Bobby

2220
02:00:13,320 --> 02:00:15,480
Speaker 1: Petrino's come back to or hit all the wrong notes,

2221
02:00:15,480 --> 02:00:18,080
Speaker 1: and honestly, Faydeville needs a total due over new coach,

2222
02:00:18,160 --> 02:00:18,640
Speaker 1: new schemes.

2223
02:00:18,680 --> 02:00:19,360
Speaker 2: I knew everything.

2224
02:00:19,640 --> 02:00:21,680
Speaker 1: So at the college football job market heating up, which

2225
02:00:21,720 --> 02:00:23,920
Speaker 1: openings do you think are the most tempting and who's

2226
02:00:23,920 --> 02:00:30,040
Speaker 1: got the chops or luck to fill them go hogs eventually. Well, look,

2227
02:00:32,280 --> 02:00:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, Florida is always the It's one of those

2228
02:00:36,040 --> 02:00:37,880
Speaker 1: that you think it should be a bigger power than

2229
02:00:37,920 --> 02:00:40,879
Speaker 1: it is. Irony is that the history of Florida football

2230
02:00:40,920 --> 02:00:43,440
Speaker 1: is actually quite mediocre.

2231
02:00:43,880 --> 02:00:44,040
Speaker 2: Right.

2232
02:00:44,080 --> 02:00:48,080
Speaker 1: They've really only had two brief periods of success, one

2233
02:00:48,080 --> 02:00:50,879
Speaker 1: with Steve Spurrier, one with urban Meyer and Tim Tebow,

2234
02:00:50,880 --> 02:00:53,000
Speaker 1: which really probably have to talk more of Tim Tebow

2235
02:00:53,040 --> 02:00:58,040
Speaker 1: than urban Meyer. And they've been mediocre or port and

2236
02:00:58,240 --> 02:01:03,240
Speaker 1: every other you know, at any other period. In theory,

2237
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:06,920
Speaker 1: it should be a great job to have. In theory,

2238
02:01:06,960 --> 02:01:10,000
Speaker 1: it should be a place that you could become a powerhouse.

2239
02:01:10,560 --> 02:01:14,080
Speaker 1: It seems to be a cesspool of micromanagers, right. It's

2240
02:01:14,160 --> 02:01:16,400
Speaker 1: kind of like you know what Auburn is. It's like,

2241
02:01:16,480 --> 02:01:18,880
Speaker 1: you know, it has all the ingredients, but it's impossible

2242
02:01:18,880 --> 02:01:21,480
Speaker 1: to succeed because the boosters are always going to get

2243
02:01:21,480 --> 02:01:25,320
Speaker 1: in your way. It just trusts me from experienced mind me.

2244
02:01:25,400 --> 02:01:27,120
Speaker 2: So on paper, it's Florida.

2245
02:01:28,040 --> 02:01:30,960
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm a huge I think Arkansas is

2246
02:01:30,960 --> 02:01:34,040
Speaker 1: a hidden I think Faetteville is a is a is

2247
02:01:34,040 --> 02:01:36,760
Speaker 1: a hidden gem in the South. I think it's one

2248
02:01:36,760 --> 02:01:39,920
Speaker 1: of the it's you know it's it's going to be

2249
02:01:39,960 --> 02:01:42,760
Speaker 1: the next Austin or Nashville. I think it's a great

2250
02:01:42,760 --> 02:01:46,240
Speaker 1: place to live. I think that somebody is going to

2251
02:01:46,280 --> 02:01:49,080
Speaker 1: crack that code. And when you have Tyson Chicken money

2252
02:01:49,280 --> 02:01:54,760
Speaker 1: and Walmart money, the the you know, if the if

2253
02:01:54,800 --> 02:01:59,600
Speaker 1: the university athletic program will invest in football, Arkansas could

2254
02:01:59,600 --> 02:02:01,920
Speaker 1: be a great job. It is not clear they want

2255
02:02:01,920 --> 02:02:03,960
Speaker 1: to invest in football as much as they do basketball

2256
02:02:04,000 --> 02:02:06,839
Speaker 1: and baseball. That seems to be the be the biggest

2257
02:02:06,840 --> 02:02:11,760
Speaker 1: problem there. I do think the Penn State job is

2258
02:02:11,800 --> 02:02:15,840
Speaker 1: actually quite appealing to because there's such a loyal fan base.

2259
02:02:16,600 --> 02:02:19,360
Speaker 1: You I actually think even though Franklin, you know, think

2260
02:02:19,400 --> 02:02:23,200
Speaker 1: about how long he survived without succeeding at the tippy

2261
02:02:23,200 --> 02:02:25,960
Speaker 1: tippy top, which means fan base has actually a lot

2262
02:02:25,960 --> 02:02:29,640
Speaker 1: more patience than it gets credit for. So that would

2263
02:02:29,680 --> 02:02:32,560
Speaker 1: be a good one that I think you could see

2264
02:02:32,920 --> 02:02:39,040
Speaker 1: quick success at and sustained success that and be in

2265
02:02:39,080 --> 02:02:42,640
Speaker 1: a community that would be pretty comforting. I mean you

2266
02:02:42,680 --> 02:02:46,480
Speaker 1: could turn you could definitely turn Happy Valley into Tuscaloosa

2267
02:02:47,040 --> 02:02:49,320
Speaker 1: and have a Nick Saban like run there. And that's

2268
02:02:49,360 --> 02:02:50,880
Speaker 1: probably the way I look at it. Where could you

2269
02:02:50,880 --> 02:02:52,720
Speaker 1: have a Nick Saban like run where you might go

2270
02:02:52,760 --> 02:02:55,640
Speaker 1: a decade and just be so dominant. I think Fills

2271
02:02:55,680 --> 02:02:58,800
Speaker 1: a place to do that. I think I think a

2272
02:02:58,880 --> 02:03:01,600
Speaker 1: Happy Valley is a place to that. I'm less convinced

2273
02:03:01,640 --> 02:03:06,160
Speaker 1: you can do that in Gainesville, and I don't you know.

2274
02:03:06,240 --> 02:03:08,720
Speaker 1: I think history shows you it's pretty difficult to do.

2275
02:03:08,800 --> 02:03:11,640
Speaker 1: And I don't know if Virginia Tech it can be

2276
02:03:11,760 --> 02:03:14,440
Speaker 1: on that highest level right now. I don't know if

2277
02:03:14,440 --> 02:03:17,840
Speaker 1: they have the financial backing to do that.

2278
02:03:19,720 --> 02:03:20,360
Speaker 2: On that front.

2279
02:03:20,800 --> 02:03:25,080
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna take one more question here. This

2280
02:03:25,120 --> 02:03:28,600
Speaker 1: comes from john S and Millie Waukee. Of course, everything

2281
02:03:28,640 --> 02:03:33,040
Speaker 1: I've learned about socialist mayors came from Wayne's World, the movie,

2282
02:03:33,160 --> 02:03:34,520
Speaker 1: and Alice Cooper.

2283
02:03:35,320 --> 02:03:36,000
Speaker 2: But I digress.

2284
02:03:36,080 --> 02:03:38,400
Speaker 1: Diehard listener here, just finish your podcast with rich Tawe.

2285
02:03:38,680 --> 02:03:39,200
Speaker 2: Fascinating.

2286
02:03:39,240 --> 02:03:42,200
Speaker 1: You answered my past question about voters in Ozaki and

2287
02:03:42,360 --> 02:03:45,440
Speaker 1: Sheboygan County's voting anti woman richest focus group confirmed my

2288
02:03:45,480 --> 02:03:48,560
Speaker 1: hunch some voters dislike Trump, but voter form anyway likely

2289
02:03:48,560 --> 02:03:50,840
Speaker 1: because of Harris. Have your thoughts on this changed at all,

2290
02:03:50,880 --> 02:03:54,320
Speaker 1: even if the polling doesn't pick it up. Look, I

2291
02:03:54,360 --> 02:03:56,839
Speaker 1: think it's pretty clear there was a group of voters

2292
02:03:57,240 --> 02:04:04,320
Speaker 1: that you know that Harris couldn't appeal to that. I

2293
02:04:04,360 --> 02:04:06,760
Speaker 1: guess what you're you know the better the question is

2294
02:04:08,520 --> 02:04:15,360
Speaker 1: that that Joe Biden did appeal to in twenty twenty. Yes,

2295
02:04:15,440 --> 02:04:19,560
Speaker 1: But I also think it's pretty clear, you know. I

2296
02:04:19,560 --> 02:04:23,800
Speaker 1: think it's a fair question about about whether it is hard.

2297
02:04:24,080 --> 02:04:26,840
Speaker 1: You know, I think I think race is less of

2298
02:04:26,880 --> 02:04:31,839
Speaker 1: an issue. I think gender was more of an issue.

2299
02:04:32,160 --> 02:04:37,800
Speaker 1: But it's hard to disaggregate it because you had a

2300
02:04:38,000 --> 02:04:42,560
Speaker 1: poor economic environment. She was defending the history of sitting

2301
02:04:42,640 --> 02:04:48,200
Speaker 1: vice presidents trying to succeed unpopular presidents is pretty stark, right,

2302
02:04:49,880 --> 02:04:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, Hubert Humphrey couldn't win with LBJ, but he

2303
02:04:55,160 --> 02:04:59,120
Speaker 1: came awfully close, and neither could she. So it is

2304
02:04:59,280 --> 02:05:03,560
Speaker 1: I think it's hard to find isolate the specific voter itself.

2305
02:05:03,600 --> 02:05:09,360
Speaker 1: You hear it in there, but you'd have a better

2306
02:05:09,480 --> 02:05:13,600
Speaker 1: argument if she lost with a better economic record. And

2307
02:05:13,640 --> 02:05:14,880
Speaker 1: I think that that's.

2308
02:05:15,000 --> 02:05:17,880
Speaker 2: You know, it is. I still think there's a.

2309
02:05:17,840 --> 02:05:20,040
Speaker 1: Little bit of choose your own adventure on this that

2310
02:05:20,120 --> 02:05:23,280
Speaker 1: you can. You certainly hear it in there, and you

2311
02:05:23,320 --> 02:05:25,360
Speaker 1: certainly hear it in those focus groups, and Rich sort

2312
02:05:25,360 --> 02:05:31,920
Speaker 1: of described it. It is a hurdle, but I don't

2313
02:05:31,920 --> 02:05:38,880
Speaker 1: think it's a brick wall, but it becomes a brick

2314
02:05:38,920 --> 02:05:43,440
Speaker 1: wall if you know, there's like this massive economic downturn, right,

2315
02:05:43,480 --> 02:05:45,760
Speaker 1: if a whole bunch of other stuff are going, it's

2316
02:05:45,760 --> 02:05:47,880
Speaker 1: sort of it is a factor.

2317
02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:48,640
Speaker 2: Not the factor.

2318
02:05:50,080 --> 02:05:54,440
Speaker 1: On this front. So I think that that. I mean,

2319
02:05:57,040 --> 02:06:00,160
Speaker 1: if we were seeing women struggle to win governorship in

2320
02:06:00,200 --> 02:06:06,160
Speaker 1: these swing states, I'd be I would be more persuaded.

2321
02:06:06,440 --> 02:06:09,520
Speaker 1: But you know, we look look at the state of Michigan.

2322
02:06:11,840 --> 02:06:15,520
Speaker 1: It's elected, you know to two term women governors in

2323
02:06:15,520 --> 02:06:19,480
Speaker 1: the last twenty years, uh in, Jennifer Grant Holme and

2324
02:06:19,520 --> 02:06:23,200
Speaker 1: Gretchen Wetber, but they didn't support Kamala Harris.

2325
02:06:23,280 --> 02:06:24,240
Speaker 2: Was that, you know?

2326
02:06:24,400 --> 02:06:30,480
Speaker 1: So I think that that it. I think you can't

2327
02:06:30,520 --> 02:06:34,280
Speaker 1: dismiss it as a factor, but I will. I am

2328
02:06:34,320 --> 02:06:35,280
Speaker 1: still going to dismiss it.

2329
02:06:35,280 --> 02:06:38,240
Speaker 2: As the factor, if that's fair, all right.

2330
02:06:38,760 --> 02:06:41,640
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna leave that there because guess what. I'll

2331
02:06:41,640 --> 02:06:43,520
Speaker 1: be back in twenty four hours with another episode of

2332
02:06:43,520 --> 02:06:45,560
Speaker 1: the Check podcast until we upload again.