WEBVTT - Ep. 173: Here’s What You Oughta Do 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.280 This is me eat your podcasting in you shirtless, severely 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.320 fog bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:29.760 can't predict anything. Get everyone today. We're joined by most 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:36.960 prominently Becky Humphreys from National Wild Turkey Federation, who's been 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:43.280 on before. N w TF. Um, we're talking to you 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:44.839 a whole bunch. Before we do that, we're gonna talk 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:51.160 to our very own Joe Fairto. That's all. Well, I know, Joe, 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.480 you were Italian. I know, but a lot of that's 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.560 been lost, a lot of my Italian this has drifted 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.800 fair Nado. Sure, I couldn't find your phone number my phone, 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:06.600 but this is your first time you've ever been on this, 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:08.960 first time you've ever stepped on, and you only here 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.600 for a minute. The trial run, we did the reason 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:17.839 Joe is here. Um, we did a if you write 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:21.000 and if you write an email into us, Joe will 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.320 likely reply or at least knows what's going on. Joe 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.920 was the gate Joe's the gatekeeper. Uh. We recently did 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:30.760 the thing where we were raising money. We we had 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.880 we had my former fish shooting bow right and we 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.760 told people, Hey, whoever promises to to whoever promises to 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.119 send the highest amount of money to t r CP 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.080 gets the fish shooting bow and Joe tell him what happened, 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.440 some of the challenges we faced and how we handled him. So, 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:51.160 I mean, we had a lot of people writing in 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:56.160 about it. Um my single not saying I'm not okay, 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.120 go ahead, I'm engaged. Yeah, he's heading out in the 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:02.200 opposite I was gonna putting a little plug for you know, 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.720 I'm good man. Okay, great, you can talk up that 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:09.520 fair Tono guy. Go on. But yeah, So, I mean 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:10.840 we had a lot of people right in, lots of 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.960 good donation offers. Probably the biggest struggle is people donating 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:19.160 the money before they received the bow, like a preemptive 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.120 emptive donation, thinking that they were going to get in anyway, 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.639 which I mean is awesome, but on on this next 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.560 giveaway and make sure that you don't donate until until 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:31.040 you realize that you're the one getting the bow. So 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.680 if you want, you could certainly donate, Yeah, I mean, 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:39.880 if you want to, it's always no. And I think 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:41.760 what they were trying to do was I don't think 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.040 they thought they had got the bow. I think they're like, look, 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.600 how serious I am here? It already is. But then 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:51.320 we got another strange offer, another strange offer. It's twenty 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.680 five dollars a month for the next fifty years. Yeah, 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:57.799 he was thirty five, to live till eighty five. He said, 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:59.440 he's not planning to die until he was eighty five 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:01.400 years old. Credit card's gonna keep the same credit card 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:05.040 number for fifty years and then just donate a month 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:06.560 for the next fifty years. And we spent a long 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.239 time talking about that offer. Yeah, how did we fall 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:12.920 in the end? Um, we fell on the U. Probably 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.919 wouldn't happen, probably wouldn't be continuous throughout that fifty years. 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.440 So we decided to do a lump sum right up front. 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.920 Nothing to get. Nothing against that fellow. Nothing agains. Just 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:27.079 a complicated process, very complicated legacy partner program which here 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.240 at Mediator, and we're not really set up to facilitate. Yea, 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:34.720 not really And tell them, um what that bow was, 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:37.400 not the one in your hand, not the new give boy, 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.640 the old fishbow, the oneida osprey. Yeah, yeah, it's a 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:45.480 pretty good fish left And here's the big thing. Left handed, Yeah, 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.600 left handed, because you're you're a left and left handed osprey. 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:53.040 Now explain the new bow. And this this is you 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.320 have to because Becky's here, So honor Becky being here. 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:00.120 You this bow. Whoever pledges to give the high US 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:04.880 amount to n w TF gets the bow. Explain the 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:06.360 boat because this is full. This is a ready to 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:12.400 shoot bow, always left the quiverful world traveling the world 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.360 travel bow. You could tell by the string needs a 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:19.480 new string. It's we might actually cut that string before 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:20.960 we send it to make sure you put a new 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.360 string on it, so be prepared to have it arrived 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:25.760 put no string on it. What do you think? What 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:27.400 do you think? Do you think it's the real liability 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.760 like that? No, I don't think it's gonna break. It 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.280 just needs to be waxed. Okay, we're not cutting a string. 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.040 This is a ready to shoot bow. And Joe was 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:38.800 gonna walk you through the accessory package. Can I tell 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.040 him what the bow is first? However you want to 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.039 do it? Yeah, So he's trying to tell Joe. He 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:44.680 was gonna be like Van of White, but Joe doesn't 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.040 know who Van of White is. The age is Joe, 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.799 I'm young, I'm sorry, but it's a white carbon spider 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:58.440 left handed obviously, Um, it's got the spot hug. I 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.560 believe it's called the hunter UM five pin side on 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:06.719 it with the microadjust it is. It's a good site. Um. 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.839 I've had it on my bows for many many years. 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.200 Um has the hoit ultra rest so it's just like 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.680 the q A D ultra rest drop away. Joel is 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.600 good at this, like knows the product names. He shoots 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:21.640 a bowl. Yeah, I'd be like, it's gotta you know, 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.520 uh flippy things, this thing that you lift up with 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:29.760 your stay. No, it's a it's a it's a great 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.800 rest uh in good condition. So you did a good 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.760 job taking care of it. Um. Then it has the 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:38.840 strings on it and yeah, like a little pulley things 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:43.040 on there, little thing. Yeah, you know it's good. It's 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.680 a sixty to seventy pound pound boll. Looks like it's 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.720 not maxed out right now what you're pulling like sixty 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:56.800 five Steve, Oh that's actually you know. Um. Then it 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.560 has a two piece white quiver, the one that attaches 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.679 straight to the bow. So it's not a removable quiver, 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.120 but it's a great bow. It's an awesome GiB away 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.640 And check this out when our new episodes uh roll 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:16.120 up on Netflix. You'll see that bow used. That boat 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:18.000 makes an appearance of quite a few. I was using 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.080 that bowl and we did our like Nevada hunt with 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:25.160 Roguan use that bowl and killed a real whopper of elk. 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:29.640 And last year, which will be on a thing, use 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:31.400 that bow down and I don't know if you ever 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.640 made it into the cut, but it was down in Guyana. 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:42.760 Definitely the curse out. Yeah, hunting birds down in South America. 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:48.720 Another episode where I miss um at point blank range, 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:50.479 I miss the Sika deer or that bow. Not the 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.880 bow's fault any mistakes you see, it would be like, 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.840 not that bow's faulty. You know, you know what should 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.400 you tell him? The draw links u UM. I'm guessing 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.240 since you're a twenty nine in a link that this 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.360 has said at twenty nine, and if it's not you, 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.000 that's probably I think it. To be honest with you, 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.760 I think so. Alright, So here's what you do. Tell 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:12.880 them how to do it, Tell him how to do 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:14.400 it that makes your life easier, and tell him what 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:19.800 how long you're willing to field offers. So this podcast 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.280 will drop on the Monday, and we'll leave that open 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.280 for two days. Will decide Wednesday. I'll reach out to 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.720 the person of the highest donation on Wednesday, and uh, 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.240 that's how you'll get the bill one time donation, that 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:36.120 one time donation. Don't try and finance your donations. We're 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:37.480 not gonna do that. We're not gonna set up the 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.920 legacy partnership with you. So do they send you like 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.440 a like a receipt or they just sit send an 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:46.920 email that says, hey, I'm going to pledge this much documentation. Yeah, 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:48.760 So once I reach out to them, I'll have them 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.160 go forward and send the receipt back in so with 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.480 confirmation that they don't make the money. They just send 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.720 an email saying I'm planning on pledging this amount exactly. 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:01.320 You have Becky here, have one of her people verify 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.720 that they that it came through. Yeah, we want to 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:06.480 make sure it's verified because we don't want to just 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.160 send Steve's world traveling bow to somebody didn't donate the money. 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:15.800 White carbon Spider, what do you I think We'll get okay? 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.320 Going and went for quite a bit above retail. Quite 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:23.880 a bit is the collector's item. This is a collector's item. 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.000 It's a world traveling Carbon Spider. We're getting real QBC 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:31.320 over here that he's been in the hands of Steve 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.880 and Ronella. Yeah right, good, Yeah, I'm good, we got it. 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:39.559 We gotta get a picture, oh with you with that bow. Yeah, 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.240 we got a lot of pictures. Feel we'll get We'll 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:45.680 get that all right, sounds dead, Ladies and gentlemen. Joe Ferronado, 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:52.240 he said it right, Thanks Joe, and thank you. That's awesome. 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.680 Now here comes strapping on Joe's still warm headset is 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.320 Spencer new heart. Okay, back in. We got a lot 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:01.800 of stuffing on top. But I gotta tell you about 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:08.800 something first. If you don't know all, that's fine, Okay. 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:14.040 What is more diagnostic on a turkey in terms of 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.760 age and all the time about is like Jake not Jake, 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:24.200 so a one year old or older than what am 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.120 I trying to say? Yeah? What is more diagnostic the 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:31.040 tail fan in the length of the feathers relative to 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:36.160 one another, or the spur. Well, we usually use the 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.720 tail fan just because we know when they do replacement 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.559 of those tail feathers. That's the most really, I mean, 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.600 that's the one that everybody uses to determine between the 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.920 Jake and the adult Tom in terms of the tail fan. 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.080 And it's the easiest to see at a distance too. 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:55.000 I mean those those spurs and various you know, various 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.880 um types of turkeys have different spur link too, so 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.160 you've got to compare it to the other the other 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.480 birds here in terms of that. So, but I told 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:10.520 you that we shot a long beard. Okay, it's a 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.760 Miriams like a seven eight inch beard on it, full 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:21.240 tail fan, gobbling his space off. Who had one kind 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:26.599 of spur and then one no spur. And then I 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:28.679 says to my brother, Wow, that's where he goes. Not here, 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.600 it's not because I've seen I got another one just 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:32.960 like it. Yeah, did you ever hear of that? Well, 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.839 I've heard of it. Where you have anomalies like that, 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.200 you know, it's interesting you get gene pool in certain 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.360 areas where you get some anomalies. Um last year I 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.080 was in um Oklahoma, I guess it was, and the 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:48.160 when the guy was hunting with it told me he 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.880 had seen a bearded hen. And he saw this bearded 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:55.439 hen that was actually um strutting. And then I wound 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.200 up going out that day and we had a bearded hen. 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:02.720 It was in full strut, beaten up on decoy for hours. 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.240 That's so you get some anomalies that get in the 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.640 gene pool where you know, you don't have spur development 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:15.559 for whatever reason, and they persist. Now, obviously that bird 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:17.960 is not in a situation where they're needing their spurs 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.560 to fight an awful lot because that bird doesn't have them. 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.520 He's going to be at a hindrance. But I presume 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:25.559 it was an area where there wasn't probably a great 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:31.080 density of turkeys. No, it's like a little island ecosystem, yep, 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.439 So he could not literally an island, but but yeah, yeah, 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.480 an island of habitat where they're they're around. So he didn't. 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.200 He didn't. You don't even really appreciate how island eed. 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.760 This island habitat is nuttill you look at satellite imagery 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:47.440 and you're like, wow, these turkeys are just then they 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.640 had to satellite in there, they had to air drop 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.319 in there. Yeah, there's just they probably don't run into 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.360 turkeys that they haven't but they don't know. Yeah, so 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.040 they have their pecking order already established. They know what 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.200 they That bird doesn't he have to fight all the 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:05.000 time to maintain position in the in the flock or 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.720 accepts it. That's the other thing. Um, I've heard that 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:12.320 spur length can be dictated by the landscape they live on. 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.200 So like a bird that lives on the mountains where 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:21.800 there's very rocky soil or like real gravelly substrate, their 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.040 spurs get worn down, so they're real short and nobody 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.160 where's like a bird down south in the marsh, nothing 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.640 wears on their spurs, so they grow longer and anything 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:36.520 to that. I'd tell people that all the time too. Yeah, 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:38.200 I mean there could be I mean, there could be 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.480 differences like that. You see it between the various um, 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.120 you know, subspecies of birds that they have various links 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.559 of spurs, and down in Florida, those birds, those osciolas 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.679 are real limb hangers. They tend to have really nice 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.800 long spurs, and so that would go along with your theory. 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.640 But they're also pretty sandy soils down there, so which 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:00.960 is you know, if anybody has dog kind of knows 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.440 if you're in sandy soils, you tend to that wears 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.960 down anything like that in terms of nails or the 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.280 rest of it. So you know, you know, so you 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:13.160 think it might be more to do with the it 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.679 might be more to do with the bird. The bird, 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:17.960 the food that they're getting, you know that, you know, 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.600 the keratin development on that for the subspecies of it, 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.120 and then the age. Yeah. Man, I always tell people 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.360 that I'm like reason, he's not a big limb hanger, 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.000 as you say, can you explain what lim hangers? Lim hangers? 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.640 Birds will hang by his up in a limb by 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:38.440 his spurs because his spurs are so long? And uh, 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.320 how many how much do you I know you work 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.440 in turkeys? How much you actually hunt turkeys? Do you 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:44.720 get the hunt a fair bit? Are you just too 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.360 busy all the time? Some years I hunt more than others. 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.559 This is one of those years where I've done less, Honey. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.520 I've only hunted South Carolina and now hunt a little 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.760 bit in Michigan while I'm up there. But other years 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.680 I try and get around. You know, we were really fortunate. 0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.720 We have a lot of great hunts. We have governor 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.120 hunt some lieutenant government hunts around the country, and try 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.240 and get out there with those folks, try and get 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:07.800 some of our mentored hunters in. I always try and 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.360 take out somebody hasn't hunted before. As one of the 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.880 things that I do each season because I mean that's 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.760 what you know. It gives you juice in this business. 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.680 And and it's as much fun as as taking a bird, 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.520 or even more fun taking your bird yourself. So some 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.880 more funky, So the right person, it's more fun. Yeah. 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.440 So it varies from year to year. Sometimes I schedule 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:30.840 myself for more hunts. This year I laid back on it. 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:34.160 I just moved, I'm heaving into a remodel project, and 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:35.840 we've got a lot of stuff going on at work. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.000 So with all that, I didn't schedule myself for as 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.720 much hunt which gets me real itchy this time of 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.200 year because we're fast approaching. I mean the seasons have 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.400 ended in many of the southern state South Carolina where 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.800 the offices is closed now that season ended, Michigan still 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:54.880 going through the end of May, so I can capture 0:14:54.960 --> 0:15:00.120 some of that layout for me. Um layoff from me, 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:03.720 just kind of give me the landscape of NWTF. You've 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:05.640 done it before, we just do it again, kind of 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.160 like mission statement, where you're at with membership all that 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.440 kind of stuff. Well, the National Wild Turkey Federation is, uh, 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.440 we're forty six going, I'm forty seven years old. It 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.520 was it was set up to restore the wild Turkey. UM. 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.800 Tom Rogers, the original founder of it, had a vision 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.680 that we could restore the wild turkey to North America, 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.040 and we're an organization that came together and did that. 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.280 In the early days, we really were a group that 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:34.120 did fundraising to help states UM with trapping efforts. We 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.680 taught the technology of a lot of the trapping to 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.520 the state agencies, and then we helped broker the deals 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.000 so you could trade wildlife between states, because you can 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.120 get yourself in trouble with the Lacey Act if you 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:49.760 put dollar figures on it, and that's why that happens. Yeah, 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.440 I realize that that's why people did swaps. Yep, that's 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.520 because the Lacey Act. You know, when we passed a 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:00.520 Lacey Act in this country to prohibit interstate movement and 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.720 trade in birds or wildlife in particular, it was a 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.960 great thing. But state agencies then if they're trying to 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.640 swap out wild turkeys, those have they also have value 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.920 to the residents of that state, and so giving away 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:19.000 their precious wild birds usually they want to and then 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.800 they want to explain to their residents that we're getting 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.280 something in return for that so I mean we swapped 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.880 turkeys for otters, and turkeys for elk, and turkeys for 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.280 rough grouse, and there were all kinds of deals around 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.760 the country. The rough exchange right in your mind. I 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.080 don't even know now, you know, at one time, I 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.560 was it always seemed a little I mean, were people 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.560 real literal about value or was it kind of like 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.120 almost like a gesture. It was a gesture, But in 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.440 most situations, that's when a state really wanted to re 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.840 establish something else. So for instance, you know, when we 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.200 were getting turkeys, we were trapping rough grouse and in 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.960 parts of Michigan around grass at Saginaw, and we ran 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.440 grouse trapping operation all all summer long to try and 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.520 get those birds, to get to fulfill the requirements so 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:09.520 we could get birds turkeys back in that winter. I mean, 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.480 you were trapping grouse in order to swap them out 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:16.120 so we could get turkeys back. Who who was after grouse? 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.280 I think it was Iowa at that particular time that 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.239 we were getting our turkeys from, But I don't know 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.480 who they were swapping with in order to get the grouse. 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.320 So somebody in the Midwest. I do remember that state's 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.600 ever trade turkeys for turkeys, like one state wants Easterns 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.879 and the other state wants Miriam's. They have in the West, 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.280 but I'm not aware of situations where they swapped various 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.639 you know, subspecies between that, but I'm sure they probably 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.240 have where the menu's gotta be real interesting when you're 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:51.240 dealing with the state like Texas, Zebras, anything at it. Yeah, 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:57.280 but you keep your you keep your exotics to yourself, 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.560 Thank you very much. Come on the draft man turies 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.120 for a draft. Yeah, but it was wild in terms 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.880 of some of the swaps that went on. But anyhow, 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.240 from there, the National Wild Turkey Federation is one of 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.960 those organizations that actually achieved it some mission. We worked 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.399 with the state agencies and restored wild turkeys to to 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.880 it's historic range and beyond. I mean, we have turkeys 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.600 and places that that really weren't historic at the time. 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.439 The you know, settlers, European settlers came over here and 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.000 that's we've got habitat forum and they're doing well in 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.400 some of those areas now and that's great and there's 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.359 a lot of social enthusiasm for um. And you know, 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.320 it's hard to I was just gonna ask if you 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.000 ever got any pushback from that where people say, well, 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.359 you know they weren't here. Yeah, there's a far amount 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:48.440 of that in California. Umah, there were I mean, we 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.120 we wound up doing studies there. There were concerns with 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.080 the turkeys would um negatively impact the vineyards that they 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.159 weren't historic to that area. And you know, the question 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.880 is how far do you go back on at there 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:04.120 is historic evidence a wild turkeys and California and so 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:08.480 as birds expanded into those areas, and those were restored efforts, 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.200 and we were able to go in and show that turkeys, 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.080 you know at the time that they're feeding in vineyards 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.040 where you've got a lot of um, great maturity and 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.360 all the rest of it. They're really after more high 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:23.600 protein than they are. They might be incidental takers of 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.359 of grapes and the rest of it, but usually a 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.960 lot of damages coming from other species out there. You 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.480 got raccoons that are going out there and cleaning them 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:32.520 out and the rest of it. But the turkeys are 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.480 very visible because they're seeing more commonly during the daylight hours, 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.760 and people see them and they assume they're causing damage. 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.560 So I was reading about that same problem in Wisconsin 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.280 when they first started seeing lots of numbers and the 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.240 same thing. They're so visible he's seeing out on the fields, 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.240 and the farmers were like, they're gonna eat us at 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:51.600 a house at home, and they had to do a 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.720 big study to prove that, well, no, actually it's like 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:56.760 ten percent of their diet and they're usually just picking 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.160 up the scraps that you've left behind anyway, right, are 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.440 the insects. I mean, that's the other thing is beneficial 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.560 where they're out there feeding heavily on insects in those 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.720 in those fields. So the National Wild Turkey Federation really 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.840 around year two thousand UM had completed most of those 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:17.560 efforts to restore, and we moved into UM. We had 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:22.399 Alreadys incorporated creating hunting heriage, maintaining the hunting herriage, and 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.560 really trying to create that next generation of hunters so 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.439 we can carry on the lifestyle and the appreciation of 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.840 hunting and the use of of hunted animals in our 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.560 food base. And then we added in habitat restoration because 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.000 at that point we're starting, you know, in parts of 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:43.640 this country we're seeing actual declines and turkey populations. Now 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.120 that they've been restored, they're starting to taper back off, 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:50.840 especially this southeastern United States, and you know what's going 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:55.120 on with that. We're seeing large landscape level changes. I mean, 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.320 we know we're losing a lot of mass crops in 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:02.000 the Midwest. Um hickory trees went by the wayside, American 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:06.000 chestnut has has gone and we've left it now. Oaks 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:10.359 are starting to diminish in that Midwestern landscape, and those 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:15.399 mass crops are practice in development well. And our forest 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:19.240 are turning over to those those oak forests that appeared 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.680 and grew up after logging and and um wood lot 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.639 development and large forest tracks now are turning over to 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.320 beach maple forests in many areas. And they don't have 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:30.639 they don't have a mass crop. They don't provide the 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.320 food that is readily available for a while of the 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.960 wildlife species that we all love, I mean, dear turkey 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:42.000 squirrel um are that hard mass is really really important 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:44.520 a lot of wildlife populations. What w did you say 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.080 that deer had to do when they were in a 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:48.359 lab lollypine and they had to pack a lunch and 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:52.400 take it with them. And you've seen that in red 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:55.640 pine stands in Michigan. I mean those pine forest are 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:58.119 all needles on the floor. There isn't a forb that 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.280 grows underneath there. There's not good un light, and they 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:05.639 just there's not anything for them to eat. So it's um. 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.520 I think that's what's happening. I think there's I think 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:11.720 there's a whole range of things that are happening. To 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:13.480 be honest with you, I think that's heard that Missouri 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:17.400 had its worst turkey harvest than seventeen years. That could 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:18.840 be like that could be like a you know, that 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:20.840 could be weather too. It could be weather. It could 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:23.920 be what weather was last year for brood production. Last 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:25.840 year coming out of it had wicked They had a 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:29.600 wicked snow storm, I know. And usually your year after 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:33.240 really bad weather conditions, when you have you don't have 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:35.399 the kind of nest success that you'd really like. Is 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:38.760 where you really feel it the following year, so you 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:42.520 feel that there's real We had a piece about this 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:46.560 on the Meat eater dot com about turkey no you know, 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:49.240 turkey populations dropping in a lot of areas, and then 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:50.720 we got a lot of emails and people who are 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:54.200 really upset, like not in my woods. Yeah, I don't 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:56.240 know how to find them. Yeah. Yeah, A lot of 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:58.919 folks would be like, well, my bird feeder, there's like 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.720 three of them around that be more. Well, they are opportunists, 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:04.600 there's no doubt about it. But you do feel that 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.960 there are like systemic There are some areas where, you know, 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:10.240 South Carolina is one of them, that they have really 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:13.520 been struggling. We are seeing a definite decline even though 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:17.159 hunter numbers are staying, are up, are actually increasing in 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:22.040 some cases, so interesting turkeys is increasing. Let me float 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.000 an idea by you. Okay, a body of mind put 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:28.400 this to me. He says, you know, what's really going 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:33.840 on with turkeys. He says, we're killing them too early. 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:37.439 I think in some cases we are. I think, you know, 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:40.480 he's not a irrational guy. He's like people who say, like, 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:42.359 get into mid May and they say the turkeys are 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:45.800 all gobbled out. Because they're not gobbled out, they're dead. Well, 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:47.680 when they shut up, I mean, that's the other thing. 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:49.920 Most of the studies that take a look at what's 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:53.960 happening to birds, they react to hunting pressure. It's like 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:57.760 predator pressure. We are predators out there. They move. We 0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:01.320 did telemetry studies um here most recently, and it was 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:03.199 fun to watch it on a screen. We showed it 0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:05.240 for our board couple of years ago. But you'd see 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:09.320 a hunter walk into an area, you know, and and 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:12.439 that bird would walk in further to that area, and 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:15.320 the hunter would leave and that bird would walk back. 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:18.760 I mean, they are they avoid they know we're there. 0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:22.720 Um they you know, even if you're a decent hunter, 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:26.239 they know that you're coming into that and they shut up. 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:28.720 We don't see as much gobbling activity and the rest 0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:31.600 of it, So it's a response just like other predators 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:34.440 would be where they'll shut up more. And we've all 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:36.760 seen that when birds, they'll do a gobble on the 0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:38.919 roost and then they when they land on the ground, 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:44.720 they're done talking. They'll come in silent at that point. So, um, 0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:48.040 you know it it it. I think that in some cases, though, 0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:51.480 there's been a lot of controversy right down in South 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:54.600 Carolina about what should be the right starting date. That 0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:58.959 that state is a state that has temperature changes and 0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:03.160 climate change from the coastal area gets warmer sooner, they 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:07.080 want to start hunting sooner. But the peak gobbling activity 0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:13.440 and the nest initiation is really about UM April ninth. 0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:16.280 That's most of the studies are most recent studies shows 0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:19.919 that the when nest initiation is is April ninth. Then 0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:22.680 they go in there in South Carolina and South Carolina. 0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:25.119 Now it varies in other parts of the contract. That 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:32.280 point she's dropped her that's right. And if you're hunting, 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:35.480 if you start your season before that time period, she's 0:25:35.480 --> 0:25:38.119 still in breeding cycle at that point. That's you know, 0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:40.320 that's just the peak. There's some that start earlier, there's 0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:42.720 some that start late, but that's kind of the peak 0:25:42.800 --> 0:25:46.920 that occurs with that population. So there's discussion down there 0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:49.080 that they by they move their season to start in 0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:52.919 the March, and you're probably disrupting those birds and not 0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:55.280 getting all the birds bread and you're not getting as 0:25:55.400 --> 0:25:57.760 much success on those nests because you are having that 0:25:57.880 --> 0:26:01.320 disruption early during that breeding cycle. Goal. So states are 0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:04.800 taking a look at that also. UM, it's been interesting 0:26:04.840 --> 0:26:07.359 to take a look at what we're doing with hunting 0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:12.080 seasons as we move forward, and we know that, UM, 0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:14.560 the timing of the season is really important. The amount 0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:17.679 of pressure on the birds is really important. And you 0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:20.760 know what happens is people want to have lots of opportunity. 0:26:20.800 --> 0:26:22.679 They want to have lots of days to hunt, and 0:26:22.720 --> 0:26:25.280 they think that by cutting back bag limits they can 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:29.000 limit what the pressure is on that on that population. 0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:33.200 But really, in almost all your wildlife populations, the length 0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:35.600 of season the number of people that hunt are the 0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:39.640 two factors that have the biggest impact on the population harvest. 0:26:40.000 --> 0:26:42.439 In this article that Steve reference was called A New 0:26:42.520 --> 0:26:45.480 Silent Spring Where the Turkey's Um. The author was David Hart, 0:26:45.480 --> 0:26:48.280 and he touched on a number of different theories as 0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:51.119 to where the turkeys have gone, why the population have 0:26:51.200 --> 0:26:53.919 been falling the recent decade. One of the things that 0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:58.280 he kind of suggested but then dismissed was yes, besides 0:26:58.320 --> 0:27:02.760 that was disease, specifically West Nile UM. You kind of 0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:06.639 brought up how states have thought that that's what's decimated 0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:09.640 grouse populations. So maybe it's doing the same thing with turkeys, 0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:12.679 but there's just not enough information available. What are your 0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:15.359 thoughts on like West Niles and turkeys. Well, you know 0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:18.000 a good friend of mine, John Fisher, and as ahead 0:27:18.040 --> 0:27:20.040 of the weld or he was. He just retired as 0:27:20.200 --> 0:27:23.680 head of the Wildlife Disease Cooperative at University of Georgia, 0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:25.400 and John and I shared a lot of the health 0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:29.280 committees for the Association Estate Agencies, and you know, everybody 0:27:29.320 --> 0:27:32.600 wants to look to disease. They especially as places where 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:36.280 poultry farms, you know, spread manure from poultry houses and 0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:38.359 all the rest of it. Is there an opportunity that 0:27:38.359 --> 0:27:42.080 we're really spreading disease out there? And I'm not saying 0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:45.159 that we can't or it won't happen, but um, and 0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:48.880 you never want to have birds feeding over um situations 0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:50.679 where they could be exposed to that where you have 0:27:50.760 --> 0:27:54.000 dead birds. But with avian influence and stuff, we just 0:27:54.119 --> 0:27:56.000 haven't seen the die off. I mean, we've done an 0:27:56.000 --> 0:27:59.280 awful lot of surveillance the States have with avian um 0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:02.040 influence and what their impacts. And we know there are 0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:06.280 indicator species there are far more susceptible to that particular disease. 0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:09.760 And when you're not seeing the indicator species go, we're 0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:13.760 not seeing it with with the turkeys. Are you saying that, Um, 0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:17.280 there are other species that are a better indicator of 0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:23.480 West Nile. Yeah, crows and yeah Corvitt, Yeah, cart really 0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:25.879 hard they and they're there are first ones when you 0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:28.280 have that disease show up, when you start seeing crow 0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:31.880 dios or raven dios, you've got a good indicator. You've 0:28:31.880 --> 0:28:35.879 got avian influenza out there. Oh not West Now Avian influenza. 0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:39.840 I didn't know that. So they're susceptible. Yeah, and this 0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:42.280 is because your body doesn't handle it well, because they're 0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:45.240 more likely to get stung by mosquitoes. I don't know 0:28:45.280 --> 0:28:48.360 the answer to that one. I don't know enough about it. So, 0:28:48.600 --> 0:28:50.800 but in West Nile virus, the same thing. I mean, 0:28:50.840 --> 0:28:54.440 these viruses have been going. We really expected with West 0:28:54.520 --> 0:28:58.520 Nile um that we would and corvitts are really susceptible 0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:01.240 West West Nile speci, these two. So that was where 0:29:01.280 --> 0:29:04.680 we first indicated it. But um we really expected that 0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:06.960 we would see major die offs as that started getting 0:29:07.000 --> 0:29:10.840 in the in the populations, and and we did in places. 0:29:10.960 --> 0:29:15.680 Um So, but we also look for high path avian influenza. 0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:18.120 That's one of the ones that found in waterfall and 0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:23.800 is really susceptible path high path, highly path energetic Aida 0:29:24.160 --> 0:29:29.120 avian influenza. There's always low path, low pathogetic avian influenza that' 0:29:29.120 --> 0:29:33.080 center waterfall populations. It's just endemic and we have it. 0:29:33.440 --> 0:29:36.320 But when you get in the high path energetic that's 0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:40.120 where you have it kills off major populations of it, 0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:43.160 and that's a real concern. So and there's you know, 0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:46.720 there's avian pox. There's a number of different diseases out there, 0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:51.440 um avian it can be spread through populations. So it's 0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:54.840 probably through touching close proximity. FEE sees that kind of stuff. 0:29:54.960 --> 0:30:01.200 It's not an insect born. What are those theory? There 0:30:01.200 --> 0:30:03.560 are theories is nothing's happened. Oh there's another theory, and 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:07.240 I don't understand it's one. I mean I understand, like 0:30:07.280 --> 0:30:08.680 I get the concept, but I don't know how true 0:30:08.680 --> 0:30:11.680 it is. That there's just a natural like when you 0:30:11.720 --> 0:30:14.800 bring in it, when you reintroduce a species or introduce 0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:18.640 a species. There's a thing where they don't call it, 0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:21.680 like I know, founder effect is something entirely different. There's 0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:24.720 some name for it, almost like a bloom. Yeah, and 0:30:24.720 --> 0:30:28.480 then they go like and then exploiting some environment for 0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:31.320 the first time. There example, food predators aren't tuned into 0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:34.480 it yet and they have this like they bloom, Yeah, 0:30:34.520 --> 0:30:36.920 they bloom. They do really well. And there's a time 0:30:37.000 --> 0:30:41.360 leg before your predator species catch on to it. You know, 0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:44.200 you wind up having the disease issues that come along 0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:46.840 with it. The disease is part of this phenomenon. Yeah, 0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:49.560 and then at that point in time, the population trails 0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:52.680 off a little bit. And you see that historically in 0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:55.520 some cases, and we see it with exotic species, non 0:30:55.600 --> 0:30:58.200 native species that come in. I mean, all you gotta 0:30:58.200 --> 0:31:00.280 do is look at things like the Great Lake where 0:31:00.320 --> 0:31:03.760 you wind up having these zebra muscle populations that just 0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:06.640 were tremendous blooms. They were over all the intake pipes 0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:09.680 and all the rest of it, and and creates this, 0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:13.800 you know, fills this unfilled niche out there. Or more 0:31:14.800 --> 0:31:18.520 a greater concern is they replace native species because they're 0:31:18.560 --> 0:31:21.960 more competitive in that environment because they don't have predators 0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:24.959 or parasites that have adapted to them yet, and so 0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:28.440 they have a competitive edge out there. So yeah, there's 0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:30.480 some of that. I mean. The other theory is there's 0:31:30.760 --> 0:31:33.800 there's been lots of discussion about fire on the landscape 0:31:34.080 --> 0:31:37.960 um and and this is more a discussion in southeastern 0:31:38.080 --> 0:31:42.120 United States with the large the Forest Service has really 0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:45.240 worked to try and and be more active in their 0:31:45.240 --> 0:31:48.200 management get those fuel loads down, especially in those pine 0:31:48.240 --> 0:31:52.320 forests that are fire driven habitats, and we're used to 0:31:52.360 --> 0:31:54.880 have a lot of lightning strikes and wildfires that would 0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:57.800 move through and burn off the understory, the fuel load, 0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:02.600 and and help promote the grass those ground of those needles, 0:32:02.880 --> 0:32:05.600 that's right, would allow stuff to come up, that's right. 0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:09.520 And you those habitats were originally savannah left to their 0:32:09.560 --> 0:32:12.520 own where they're very open canopy, but you have trees 0:32:12.760 --> 0:32:15.440 and and fire moved through it. And then in the 0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:18.720 southern plains that's the pine savannahs you tend to get up. 0:32:18.720 --> 0:32:21.080 In the midwestern you get the oak savannahs, the same 0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:24.680 type of habitat, their fire driven habitats that had a 0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:27.000 lot of fire that moved through them on a regular 0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:30.400 basis before we got involved in the in the ecosystem 0:32:30.400 --> 0:32:33.040 of living there, and then we suppressed that fire. And 0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:35.480 what has happened then is you wind up having a 0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:39.360 lot of woody vegetation. Turkeys don't like to have really 0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:42.280 a lot of heavy cover that's woody right around them 0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:46.520 because they can't see. They they feel um unprotected in that. 0:32:46.560 --> 0:32:49.840 They much prefer to have good grass cover where they 0:32:49.840 --> 0:32:53.680 have greater visibility, but yet they have good nest protection. 0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:55.840 And then you wind up getting a lot more insect 0:32:55.960 --> 0:33:00.440 damnage or insect not damage, but insect availability for protein, 0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:03.480 food source and all the rest of us. When you 0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:05.920 have that sunshine that comes down to the forest floor, 0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:09.080 you think, yeah, I would imagine that fire could be 0:33:09.280 --> 0:33:11.720 bad for insects, but habitat wise it makes up for 0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:14.120 it makes up for it. Yeah, And there's you know, 0:33:14.160 --> 0:33:17.280 the insects live on those landscapes. When you when you 0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:21.320 um see those landscapes after their burn, quite often there's 0:33:21.520 --> 0:33:24.960 um a very large ant colonies that go in conjunction 0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:28.400 with it. Those sandy soils are very heavy mineral, there's 0:33:28.440 --> 0:33:30.920 not a lot of top soil on them, and those 0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:35.640 ants are really important for breaking down what vegetative material 0:33:35.640 --> 0:33:39.040 are there and getting some organics and you know, um 0:33:39.040 --> 0:33:42.520 placement back in place. It will burn those ant colonies 0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:44.840 if you get too hot to fire. Normally it will 0:33:44.880 --> 0:33:46.680 pass through it. But if you get a really hot 0:33:46.720 --> 0:33:49.000 fire out and I've seen where it's will burn out 0:33:49.040 --> 0:33:53.080 the ant colonies also. But it comes back. Now it's 0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:56.040 not bad, it's it's it's part of what happens there. 0:33:56.800 --> 0:33:59.920 So by putting that fire back on the landscape, we're 0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:03.560 getting it overall back in better shape for turkeys because 0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:07.400 it's getting that open grassy component to the savannah back 0:34:07.440 --> 0:34:12.360 in place. But people see where birds might be nesting 0:34:12.800 --> 0:34:15.400 and and the nest gets burned during that time period, 0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:18.080 and they think we're losing lots of turkeys to those 0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:22.240 large scale fires that are prescribed fires, when in fact, 0:34:22.960 --> 0:34:25.240 a lot of times they go back into renest. Sometimes 0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:27.919 the nest is even harmed. I mean there you'll see 0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:31.759 photographs of from researchers that they'll go back in. They'll 0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:33.919 take a photograph of the nest. You know, an egg 0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:37.040 will even be singed, but the nest will hatch, the 0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:39.400 hen picks up. It's the fire. Most true. She comes 0:34:39.400 --> 0:34:43.520 back right afterwards. And if you are in those landscapes, 0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:46.440 right after the burn, turkeys moved back in when it's 0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:48.560 still all black. I saw you guys that a study 0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:50.720 on that. Yeah, I saw you had turkeys to tracking 0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:53.719 devices and looked at how they respond to fire, and 0:34:53.760 --> 0:34:58.040 they respond very favorably. So short term losses long term 0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:01.120 gain on that landscape. I can device look like on 0:35:01.160 --> 0:35:03.960 a turkey. It's a little a little transmitter. It goes 0:35:04.000 --> 0:35:05.719 on the back. There's two you can do it through 0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:07.920 a radio signal or a little larger one will be 0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:11.440 a satellite signal. So now we have the ability to 0:35:11.480 --> 0:35:14.040 track them through satellite. And that's like embedded in the 0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:16.640 turkey glue. Yeah, yeah, it's it goes right on the 0:35:16.680 --> 0:35:21.080 back between the shoulders is where it goes. But yeah, 0:35:21.160 --> 0:35:23.680 we we put it under the skin. Originally with some 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:26.120 of these devices, they used to have harnesses that fit 0:35:26.200 --> 0:35:27.719 on them. Now we've gotten to the point where we 0:35:27.719 --> 0:35:30.480 embed it right in there, and it's nice. You can 0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:33.520 you can actually um embed it, but it actually you 0:35:33.560 --> 0:35:36.040 can crazy glue it right on the on the skin, 0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:38.560 pull some a few of the feathers out, crazy glue 0:35:38.560 --> 0:35:40.959 it right on the skin, and it's there. It stays there. 0:35:41.239 --> 0:35:45.680 That area that I was in in Tennessee was kind 0:35:45.680 --> 0:35:48.800 of has a lot of these components that we're talking about. 0:35:48.800 --> 0:35:51.880 Where you know, we were on one side of the county. 0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:58.759 There's birds everywhere on really some of the same property 0:35:59.640 --> 0:36:03.719 about fifteen minutes away. Like, yeah, this used to be 0:36:03.760 --> 0:36:05.799 exactly like the stuff that we were hunting where there 0:36:05.800 --> 0:36:09.640 were tons of birds. In the last year, no birds, 0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:15.960 and they had captured a handful of birds out on 0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:20.600 um well all reads property out there and put those 0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:23.479 tracking devices on them to try to get a better 0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:27.880 understanding what's happening. But went from hundreds of birds to 0:36:28.400 --> 0:36:30.680 uh when we went out there, we saw saw one 0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:34.160 lone tom out cruising around. But they think they moved 0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:39.120 or died. He thinks they died. Yeah, And it's the 0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:41.320 same deal out here in eastern Montana that I was 0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:45.040 telling you about, like the you know, the person doing 0:36:45.080 --> 0:36:47.719 the observation, the rancher. It's like the only thing I 0:36:47.719 --> 0:36:49.880 can think of as a disease because there were so 0:36:49.920 --> 0:36:53.919 many birds and then no birds. Well yeah, we've seen 0:36:53.960 --> 0:36:57.719 that out here as well. Just they're just there and 0:36:57.760 --> 0:36:59.439 it's like tons of them, and then all of sud 0:36:59.440 --> 0:37:02.160 they're not there and it takes some years to come back. Well, 0:37:02.239 --> 0:37:04.960 that's it. When you lose a population, when you get 0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:06.840 down to a critical mass where you don't have a 0:37:06.840 --> 0:37:11.040 good breeding population, when you lose a couple of production cycles, 0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:13.839 it takes a long time for those birds to come 0:37:13.840 --> 0:37:16.399 back in and fill it. But you know, sometimes these 0:37:16.480 --> 0:37:20.640 landscape changes that happened, we don't even recognize them. Um, 0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:23.760 give you a perfect example where I live in Michigan. 0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:26.600 We had we have had turkeys for years. We hunted 0:37:26.640 --> 0:37:30.240 our back hillside. It was a really nice oak mixed 0:37:30.320 --> 0:37:33.759 hardwood stand with some really old oak mass trees that 0:37:33.800 --> 0:37:36.360 are roost trees on it and stuff. And you know, 0:37:36.440 --> 0:37:39.320 I I go out there every year, I've seen less turkeys. 0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:42.040 There's more development in the area, more homes. I'm thinking, 0:37:42.040 --> 0:37:46.160 it's just disturbance. My son comes home, who spent a 0:37:46.160 --> 0:37:48.000 lot of time out back there, and he hadn't been 0:37:48.040 --> 0:37:50.439 back in three years, and he said, you know, Becky, 0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:53.280 we're losing our oak. This is moving over to beach 0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:57.680 beach maple. And you know, it wasn't until Joel said 0:37:57.680 --> 0:38:00.279 that to me that I started really looking around and thinking, 0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:03.600 should have been on this property for thirty years. I 0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:07.040 don't see the kind of maturity changes because every year 0:38:07.120 --> 0:38:09.920 I'm out there during that time period, and and you 0:38:10.000 --> 0:38:14.360 don't see that continual maturity and the changeover and how 0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:16.799 some of the dominant trees are starting to die out 0:38:16.960 --> 0:38:21.040 and become you know, sub dominant in that that forest stand. 0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:23.480 So what's a solution for that? If you cut it? 0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:27.240 Not everything I mean to go in into a shelter, 0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:29.560 would cut and bring up some of those I should 0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:32.359 cut out. Some of those big older oak trees are 0:38:32.360 --> 0:38:35.319 starting to die out because they're starting to die and 0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:37.880 there's some younger oaks and I need to release those 0:38:38.000 --> 0:38:40.759 on the hillside. It's pretty steep hillside. It's not that 0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:44.480 much acreage. It's hard to get in somebody to cut it. 0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:48.200 We don't have a lot of small cutters anymore, um, 0:38:48.440 --> 0:38:50.480 you know, in a lot of these timber markets. So 0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:53.120 it's really hard to get somebody in there to do it. 0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:57.279 The chainsaw. I'm good with chainsaw, our buddy dog. He 0:38:57.480 --> 0:39:00.200 manages a family farm. He works his ass off to 0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:04.120 try to keep oaks. Yeah, it's yeah, because the thing 0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:06.000 is too is like there's so many more deer now 0:39:06.120 --> 0:39:08.520 where he is, and so they have the way they 0:39:08.520 --> 0:39:11.759 like to feed and um, and he has he has 0:39:11.800 --> 0:39:14.400 to do a lot of like active forestry management to 0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:19.720 try to to to keep the you know, the sweet 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:22.040 the sweet of trees on the on his place that 0:39:22.040 --> 0:39:23.600 he'd like to see because if he didn't, I can't 0:39:23.600 --> 0:39:26.799 remember what one it is. If you just like let 0:39:26.800 --> 0:39:29.200 it go, what do you want it with? Red maple? 0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:32.320 Something he doesn't like a lot of. It's probably red maple. 0:39:32.360 --> 0:39:35.520 It takes over in those upland hardwood stands, and so 0:39:35.600 --> 0:39:37.640 if you just didn't do it, and you just had 0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:39.480 a bunch of deer there, no one did anything and 0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:43.680 no one was doing any kind of select work with 0:39:43.719 --> 0:39:46.160 a lot of maple on wouldn't support the doesn't support 0:39:46.280 --> 0:39:49.080 doesn't support the amount of life. No, it doesn't. It 0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:51.640 doesn't have the mass crop that you really need to 0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:55.239 support the wildlife they really want there. I'll tell you 0:39:55.239 --> 0:39:59.399 a start of you ought to do. Get your pencil out, 0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:01.760 get your it's a lot because it's a good study. 0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:04.600 I've seen this happened a couple of times. Now let's 0:40:04.640 --> 0:40:06.520 we're talking about. I'm sure it happens in other states, 0:40:06.600 --> 0:40:11.000 but you should go in. There's a this this state 0:40:11.080 --> 0:40:12.640 here that we haven't be sitting in right now is 0:40:12.680 --> 0:40:20.920 divided into seven regions. Okay. Over the years they've added 0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:24.239 on which regions you're allowed to use and over the 0:40:24.280 --> 0:40:27.760 counter turkey tag for so as the region is coming 0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:32.239 into its own with turkey numbers. It's a draw. And 0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:35.040 I have come in and hunted turkeys in areas where 0:40:35.080 --> 0:40:38.080 it's a draw where you have to apply and win 0:40:38.120 --> 0:40:40.919 a lottery to get a turkey permit. That's a very 0:40:40.920 --> 0:40:45.520 different kind of turkey hunting than when it's an over 0:40:45.560 --> 0:40:48.719 the counter because people over the years, as they watched this, 0:40:48.800 --> 0:40:50.640 they know where all the turkeys are, and the minute 0:40:50.640 --> 0:40:53.680 you can just go, they go right. It would be 0:40:53.719 --> 0:40:58.600 really interesting to um, there's one region left in this 0:40:58.760 --> 0:41:02.959 state that's still hard to draw a turkey tag. Presumably 0:41:03.640 --> 0:41:05.680 it'll get to where they're going to open it up. 0:41:06.120 --> 0:41:08.960 It'd be interesting to do a gobble study or something, 0:41:10.719 --> 0:41:13.279 because here you have like a great scenario of a 0:41:13.280 --> 0:41:16.600 turkey population and all of a sudden the floodgates get 0:41:16.640 --> 0:41:19.280 opened and a lot more pressure on it, and watch 0:41:19.840 --> 0:41:23.960 and try to put some numbers to how they respond 0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:27.520 where they're spending their time, like how much they gobble, 0:41:27.520 --> 0:41:28.920 where they like to hang out, how much are they 0:41:28.960 --> 0:41:32.080 gonna how much does that that influx of hunting pressure 0:41:32.480 --> 0:41:36.360 because it happens like overnight. You know, what, what is 0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:37.800 what are they doing? What does that do? What's the 0:41:37.840 --> 0:41:40.960 population responds to us? It's gotta be significant, man, Because 0:41:41.040 --> 0:41:42.360 we just had a thing this year. We went to 0:41:42.400 --> 0:41:45.080 a place that only a couple of years ago went 0:41:45.200 --> 0:41:50.680 general and UM and had a couple of individuals say 0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:54.479 to us, like man in that place change because people 0:41:54.480 --> 0:41:57.520 have been watching those turkeys for a decade. They knew 0:41:57.520 --> 0:42:00.080 where they were. I spent a lot of years in 0:42:00.160 --> 0:42:04.520 my life dealing with regulations, wildlife regulations on these very issues. 0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:07.520 And yeah, it's always a tough balance to try and 0:42:07.520 --> 0:42:10.920 balance the opportunity of making sure that people can get 0:42:10.960 --> 0:42:14.640 out there and hunt it and um understand the entry 0:42:14.640 --> 0:42:17.000 system to get into it, because you got to think 0:42:17.040 --> 0:42:20.960 ahead and apply, you know, and and meets that deadline, 0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:24.760 which is well advanced to the turkey hunting season, versus 0:42:24.880 --> 0:42:27.120 have an open entry and make it easy for people 0:42:27.160 --> 0:42:30.680 to get in there. And states struggle with this concept 0:42:30.800 --> 0:42:33.600 and try and balance those two so that we're not 0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:38.279 unnecessarily restricting people. But on the other hand, we're not 0:42:39.400 --> 0:42:43.320 unnecessarily over harvesting the population or putting too much pressure 0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:46.760 on the population. I'm not even so much over harvest 0:42:46.800 --> 0:42:48.680 as much as the kind of pressure that goes in 0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:51.480 the behavioral changes that I talked about before. With that, 0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:54.720 in the Big Game world, we divide the whole world 0:42:54.760 --> 0:42:58.160 into two things. You got your quality states and then 0:42:58.239 --> 0:43:01.520 you got your opportunity states. That's exactly it. You're right, 0:43:01.560 --> 0:43:05.040 we do. We do and and you know, it's tough 0:43:05.080 --> 0:43:08.719 because you don't want people to um, you want them 0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:11.800 to have opportunity to go in and take birds and 0:43:11.800 --> 0:43:14.959 and have that that place of hunting if they didn't 0:43:14.960 --> 0:43:17.319 even apply for it. But on the other hand, you 0:43:17.560 --> 0:43:20.600 don't want to diminish the quality. And some states have 0:43:20.680 --> 0:43:22.879 fall seasons too. We talked a little bit about that 0:43:22.960 --> 0:43:25.960 last night. What's your take on that, Well, fall season 0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:28.480 tends to be a season to restrict the population, to 0:43:28.480 --> 0:43:31.000 pull it back. I mean, it's that's what it's intended. 0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:34.239 That's what it's intended. So you've got agricultural interests, you've 0:43:34.239 --> 0:43:36.439 got the areas you know where the where you open 0:43:36.560 --> 0:43:39.359 up those hunting seasons to fall hunting. Your your game 0:43:39.400 --> 0:43:43.880 plan is to reduce the population, and why not reduce 0:43:43.920 --> 0:43:45.480 it in the spring. That's what I thing I understand, 0:43:45.520 --> 0:43:48.400 like why in the fall are you allowed to shoot hens? 0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:53.439 And states that have fall seasons like once she's killing. 0:43:53.600 --> 0:43:55.239 If you want to kill hens, why why not killing 0:43:55.320 --> 0:43:59.160 the spring? Well, the idea is that, um, your spring 0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:02.040 season is a quality season that is not trying to 0:44:02.160 --> 0:44:06.319 restrict the population. And so we started spring hunting and 0:44:06.400 --> 0:44:10.400 have had spring hunting even as we restored populations. That 0:44:10.520 --> 0:44:12.799 was one of the things that Turkey Federation really did 0:44:12.800 --> 0:44:15.200 a good job on. They brought a lot of science 0:44:15.200 --> 0:44:18.760 to the States so that you could introduce wild turkeys, 0:44:18.840 --> 0:44:21.680 get that population expanding, and still hunt it in the 0:44:21.760 --> 0:44:25.440 spring season because those birds are still those You're not 0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:28.240 taking the hands. You're trying to time your season after 0:44:28.280 --> 0:44:31.800 the birds have have have bread, and you're not disturbing 0:44:31.840 --> 0:44:34.120 those nests too much in that regard, and you could 0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:39.600 open up hunting early as you're restoring those populations, then 0:44:39.719 --> 0:44:43.279 use your fall seasons to to reduce populations where you 0:44:43.320 --> 0:44:47.719 have overabundance in that population. Who is it when you say, like, oh, 0:44:47.760 --> 0:44:52.120 there's too many turkeys? Who is saying that? Usually who 0:44:52.160 --> 0:44:56.160 says it are people that call in they have nuisance birds. Um. 0:44:56.200 --> 0:44:59.160 Your your local biologists will have people that will call in. 0:44:59.200 --> 0:45:01.239 And when I was a biologists, i would have this. 0:45:01.400 --> 0:45:03.600 I'd have people that would say, you know, I've got 0:45:03.600 --> 0:45:06.800 turkeys hanging around my property. They're roosting over the cars 0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:10.400 at night. They're um, they're out in the fields causing 0:45:10.480 --> 0:45:13.680 problems because they see them out in those particular fields. 0:45:13.719 --> 0:45:17.080 Sometimes it's just the presence of turkeys they're not used 0:45:17.120 --> 0:45:19.120 to it. They don't want to have turkeys around there. 0:45:19.360 --> 0:45:22.960 Sometimes they're habituating those turkeys. They've got bird feeders up 0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:26.920 and supplemental feed out. Those birds are taking advantage of it. 0:45:26.920 --> 0:45:30.240 It's an education process to get them to realize pulling 0:45:30.280 --> 0:45:33.200 your feed or stop putting out throwing out your chicken 0:45:33.239 --> 0:45:35.520 feed out in the yard and having the turkeys come 0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:39.480 into it. Also, it's a behavioral change. And then sometimes 0:45:39.600 --> 0:45:43.520 we do have too many birds in particular suburban settings, 0:45:43.560 --> 0:45:46.399 and that's where it tends to get the most um 0:45:46.400 --> 0:45:49.440 turkey to manage. Is where you you have this mix 0:45:49.520 --> 0:45:53.319 of of nice field habitats, some small wood lots and 0:45:53.360 --> 0:45:55.719 then a lot of homes in there, and you can 0:45:55.760 --> 0:45:58.919 support pretty good bird populations. And then you're not if 0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:01.799 it's an area where people are it's privately owned and 0:46:01.800 --> 0:46:04.880 they're not let people into hunt not getting much pressure. 0:46:05.480 --> 0:46:09.760 You can have some islands of really pretty dense populations 0:46:11.120 --> 0:46:13.000 and at that point you're gonna get someone who's like, 0:46:13.040 --> 0:46:15.520 there's too many turkeys. Yeah, I don't want them to 0:46:15.520 --> 0:46:17.800 get them out of here. A lot of depredation tags 0:46:17.800 --> 0:46:22.520 in Idaho turkey depredation turkey depredation tags. And so if 0:46:22.560 --> 0:46:25.440 you're a landowner and you say you want to have 0:46:26.000 --> 0:46:29.440 some turkeys taken off your place in the depredation system, 0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:33.560 then folks who apply for those tags, you can get 0:46:33.560 --> 0:46:36.759 a phone call says, hey, this land owner has got 0:46:36.800 --> 0:46:39.480 a bunch of turkeys on there, here's the number, and 0:46:39.520 --> 0:46:42.680 they have to provide access if they're part of that program. 0:46:42.920 --> 0:46:45.120 And then you get dispatched out there to hunt turkeys. Yeah. 0:46:45.160 --> 0:46:47.759 And a good good friend of mine got a call 0:46:48.000 --> 0:46:52.680 last year for a region that is a difficult place 0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:55.920 to Yeah, you have to draw a tag to go 0:46:56.000 --> 0:46:58.640 over there and hunt birds, but he got a call 0:46:58.760 --> 0:47:02.360 for depredation in over there. Guys like, yeah, he's like, 0:47:02.400 --> 0:47:04.520 I got one standing on top of my car right now, 0:47:04.640 --> 0:47:08.480 come kill him. I want to get into some legal 0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:11.719 some stuff you guys do around lobbying and whatnot. Is 0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:14.759 that a dirty word? Lobbying congressional? What do you guys 0:47:14.800 --> 0:47:16.080 call it? What do you like to call it? Um, 0:47:16.200 --> 0:47:20.440 we like to call it education and advocacy, Yeah, advocacine ed. 0:47:20.600 --> 0:47:21.799 I want to talk to a little bit about that, 0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:23.960 what that world's like. But I want to ask a 0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:26.680 couple of things. First, what in your mind. What's a 0:47:27.080 --> 0:47:33.000 very old male turkey and what's a very old female turkey? 0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:40.560 You know, ten is an old bird in the wild. Now, 0:47:40.680 --> 0:47:43.600 you see, domestic birds will get up, people keep them 0:47:43.640 --> 0:47:45.440 their bar and they're older than that. But you know 0:47:45.480 --> 0:47:52.480 you're a show called Cal's Weekend Review. Yes, tell her 0:47:52.520 --> 0:47:54.600 about the bird. Tell her about the bird from the 0:47:54.640 --> 0:47:57.439 episode one of Cal's Weekend Review, real quick. I mean 0:47:57.520 --> 0:48:01.479 they will go older, there's no doubt. A turkey. Yeah, 0:48:01.640 --> 0:48:06.240 this is a lays An albatross. It's the oldest known, 0:48:07.600 --> 0:48:12.399 oldest known bird. Yeah. Yeah, and she's sixty eight and 0:48:12.560 --> 0:48:17.480 still rearing chicks or a chick a year. But it 0:48:17.600 --> 0:48:21.399 was banded at roughly five years of age. Yeah, because 0:48:21.440 --> 0:48:25.320 they don't start laying until they're about five. So pretty amazing, 0:48:25.440 --> 0:48:28.680 is yeah. Yeah. And think how little time she's spent 0:48:28.920 --> 0:48:30.879 on the ground. They think that she's covered how many 0:48:30.880 --> 0:48:32.520 miles in her life? Yeah, because I mean they go 0:48:32.600 --> 0:48:33.960 up in the air and they don't come down for 0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:36.040 long periods of time. I think this is a very 0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:39.080 conservative number when you look at all the other data 0:48:39.160 --> 0:48:44.760 that's out there, But three million miles on this one bird. Yeah, 0:48:45.080 --> 0:48:52.600 I think that it's interesting Stus Review more hot, and 0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:55.960 so you think between there's no Tom that lives ten. 0:48:56.640 --> 0:49:00.759 Tom's right, not in hunted populations X would be like 0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:03.440 your mega. Oh yeah, I mean I'm talking about the 0:49:03.520 --> 0:49:06.719 really unusual situation out there because you asked, what's the 0:49:06.760 --> 0:49:10.360 oldest you know, that's that's probably not the oldest A 0:49:10.520 --> 0:49:12.920 really old oh, a really old one. Yeah. If you 0:49:12.960 --> 0:49:15.839 get a bird that's you know, five six years old, 0:49:15.880 --> 0:49:18.439 that's an old bird in the wild. That's I mean, 0:49:18.680 --> 0:49:22.760 especially if there's much in terms of um hunting pressure 0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:26.759 on that particular bird. You know, you're you're lucky. If 0:49:26.800 --> 0:49:29.680 you have very many three year old birds in the population. 0:49:29.719 --> 0:49:32.640 Three and four year old birds, well, thosezards in Texas 0:49:32.719 --> 0:49:35.600 that we got, how old do you think they were? Three? 0:49:35.920 --> 0:49:40.040 We all, yeah, three to four. But scars. I don't 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:42.719 think they're hunting those birds real hard out there. Maybe no, 0:49:42.840 --> 0:49:46.920 But I just think just disease or you know, bacterial 0:49:46.960 --> 0:49:49.279 infections and stuff. Because we had a couple of birds 0:49:49.360 --> 0:49:52.760 with like real puncture holes in them and old scars 0:49:52.840 --> 0:49:56.440 and staff each other. What's a rough life out there, Yeah, 0:49:56.560 --> 0:50:01.840 it's a rough life. I heard somewhere that a poult 0:50:02.320 --> 0:50:07.680 so a young turkey eats animal matter. They do eat 0:50:07.680 --> 0:50:12.480 a lot of protein and an adult vegetable matter. Is 0:50:12.480 --> 0:50:15.319 it that clean? I don't. I couldn't tell you that 0:50:15.680 --> 0:50:19.080 if it's that clean. But you know, turkeys are omnivorous, 0:50:19.160 --> 0:50:23.200 so they they they're opportunistic, um, and they're as they 0:50:23.200 --> 0:50:26.280 are adults, they do eat a lot more vegetative material. 0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:30.600 We know that those young birds, those pouls really used protein. 0:50:30.840 --> 0:50:33.839 They grow really quickly, and so they need those high 0:50:33.920 --> 0:50:37.719 energy sources and those high calorie sources to really put 0:50:37.719 --> 0:50:39.640 on the kind of growth that they put on. Because 0:50:39.760 --> 0:50:41.839 you know, when you look at a turkey, it doesn't 0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:43.640 take them very long to get to the point where 0:50:43.640 --> 0:50:46.080 they are feathered out and able to fly. So they 0:50:46.120 --> 0:50:51.600 grow really quickly. Um. As young birds like protein. Yeah, 0:50:51.640 --> 0:50:53.799 they go out and I mean those those hens take 0:50:53.840 --> 0:50:56.960 them out and they just you know, snurf up whatever 0:50:57.040 --> 0:51:00.439 insect life they can find out there. Yeah, the questions 0:51:00.440 --> 0:51:03.920 you wanted to happen with, John, No, I want to 0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:06.400 come back to the d C stuff we're about to 0:51:06.400 --> 0:51:09.439 get before we get into that, Like quick, hey, what's 0:51:09.520 --> 0:51:18.120 up with type questions? So in South Dakota, a male 0:51:18.160 --> 0:51:21.000 turkey tag allows you to shoot a turkey with a 0:51:21.120 --> 0:51:24.839 visible beard or spurs. And in the Black Hills there's 0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:27.000 a lot of bearded hands. I shouldn't say a lot, 0:51:27.280 --> 0:51:30.000 but more than most places. I've ever seen a dozen. 0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:32.800 Like in my years of hunting there in the spring, 0:51:32.840 --> 0:51:36.320 I have twice shot bearded hands knowing that they were hands. 0:51:36.640 --> 0:51:41.120 Does that make me a bad person? Steve can shoot 0:51:41.160 --> 0:51:45.000 hands in spring, I would shoot a bearded hand. Why 0:51:45.080 --> 0:51:47.160 is that different than a normal hand for you, it's 0:51:47.200 --> 0:51:50.040 not because i'd be I'd be against it, begins the law. 0:51:51.360 --> 0:51:53.239 So only because it's legally you're okay with it. Then 0:51:53.280 --> 0:51:59.520 it's not like it complicated that if spring turkey season. Well, 0:51:59.600 --> 0:52:06.160 here's what the I have, Like I have most states 0:52:06.520 --> 0:52:10.640 forty or so states, I have a lot of uh 0:52:10.920 --> 0:52:16.840 faith in the wildlife managers. Okay, states, I have a 0:52:16.880 --> 0:52:19.759 lot of faith in the wildlife managers. Where I would 0:52:19.800 --> 0:52:26.440 say if they were saying that, um, we're gonna open 0:52:26.480 --> 0:52:29.480 it up for hens most states, I'd be like, they 0:52:29.520 --> 0:52:32.720 probably know what they're talking about. This is probably okay. 0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:35.040 So if I knew that there was a hen, like 0:52:35.160 --> 0:52:37.080 there's there's a part of this state we can shoot 0:52:37.080 --> 0:52:40.640 hens in the spring. Yeah, three of them. So I'm like, 0:52:40.800 --> 0:52:43.839 must be I'm gathering a lot of hens because there's 0:52:43.840 --> 0:52:45.560 a lot of parts of the states where you can't 0:52:45.640 --> 0:52:47.839 and there's some parts where you can't on turkeys. So 0:52:47.920 --> 0:52:51.280 they're have an elastic model. And if in this little 0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:54.120 corner over the area they've determined that they want to 0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:56.920 kill some hens in the spring, I would have faith 0:52:56.960 --> 0:52:59.879 that they were operating in the best interest of hunter. 0:53:00.880 --> 0:53:05.080 So in those places, yes, the bearded hand. I don't 0:53:05.120 --> 0:53:08.920 think that the American wild turkey is gonna live or 0:53:08.960 --> 0:53:15.279 die or thrive or not thrive based on the occurrence 0:53:15.400 --> 0:53:20.319 rate of hunters harvesting bearded hands, which are an anomaly. 0:53:21.160 --> 0:53:24.600 So if you were to see one of these, I've 0:53:24.640 --> 0:53:26.120 never had a bearded head in front of me with 0:53:26.160 --> 0:53:28.160 a shotgun in my hand. If I were to see 0:53:28.200 --> 0:53:30.040 one and get it, I don't think that that that's 0:53:30.040 --> 0:53:33.280 gonna then mean that we're going to see this population 0:53:33.960 --> 0:53:37.480 wide decline in turkey numbers. I always have a bit 0:53:37.520 --> 0:53:39.680 of guilt because I feel like I'm gaming the system 0:53:39.840 --> 0:53:43.680 all the time. Twice, that's not all the time, So 0:53:44.080 --> 0:53:47.520 tell me, tell me yes, Because it's like the the 0:53:47.600 --> 0:53:49.319 idea of the tag is for you to shoot a 0:53:49.360 --> 0:53:51.960 male turkey. Yeah, that's the spirit of the law. And 0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:56.319 I'm knowingly shooting a female turkey, which is legal to 0:53:56.400 --> 0:53:59.320 get a turkey. I feel it's like if you found 0:53:59.440 --> 0:54:01.840 a rain bow and there was like a little leprechn 0:54:02.160 --> 0:54:05.520 and he stole his gold, it would be like, sure, 0:54:07.040 --> 0:54:11.440 it never happens there I was. I took it. We 0:54:11.480 --> 0:54:14.440 call it backy off, Tell me, I think it's an 0:54:14.440 --> 0:54:18.320 individual choice. I mean, you knew it was a weird hand. Okay, 0:54:18.520 --> 0:54:20.160 that bird I had in front of me last year 0:54:20.200 --> 0:54:22.080 in Oklahoma. I knew she was a hen. She was 0:54:22.120 --> 0:54:25.719 a legal target. I didn't take it. Why that? Why 0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:28.520 did I do it? Because I couldn't believe her behavior. 0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:31.360 I had never seen a hand to a full strut 0:54:31.360 --> 0:54:34.400 like this and be that aggressive. But that doesn't account 0:54:34.400 --> 0:54:37.160 for why you didn't shoot it. Well, so you saw 0:54:37.200 --> 0:54:39.799 a regular turkey to a backflip. Yeah, that's true, but 0:54:39.960 --> 0:54:42.160 it was you know, I knew it was an egg layer. 0:54:42.400 --> 0:54:45.080 You know it was out there. I got more enjoyment 0:54:45.080 --> 0:54:48.440 out of watching her that day then I did. And 0:54:48.520 --> 0:54:51.440 naming her that day and her behavior and laughing about it, 0:54:51.560 --> 0:54:55.320 we well we lame. We named her a pretty aggressive 0:54:55.320 --> 0:54:58.319 female name, so she just wound up being she she 0:54:58.440 --> 0:55:01.080 was scaring the tom off. I mean, she was a 0:55:01.160 --> 0:55:05.480 really aggressive hen. So it was one of those situations 0:55:05.480 --> 0:55:07.400 where I got more joy out of that with the 0:55:07.440 --> 0:55:09.440 people I was hunting with than I did would have 0:55:09.600 --> 0:55:13.080 by taking it and end in the scenario what she's saying, Spencer, 0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:16.120 I'm reading between it. What she's saying is because she 0:55:16.160 --> 0:55:22.399 wouldn't do it because it's wrong. No, But I don't 0:55:22.440 --> 0:55:24.400 think we should shame one another on this. I mean, 0:55:24.719 --> 0:55:26.799 it was It's okay you you could easily change my 0:55:26.840 --> 0:55:29.160 mind if you like said no, you shouldn't be doing that. 0:55:29.640 --> 0:55:31.960 Well you obviously you feel that way, you wouldn't ask 0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:35.160 the question that you had some trepidation about it. But 0:55:35.200 --> 0:55:40.400 I don't think as hunters we should ever criticize another 0:55:40.480 --> 0:55:42.839 hunter for taking a legal target. I used to see 0:55:42.840 --> 0:55:44.880 this all the time in deer hunting, with people getting 0:55:44.880 --> 0:55:47.879 into it and somebody during an antler's season would take 0:55:48.400 --> 0:55:51.160 a buck vawn and they couldn't tell it was a 0:55:51.160 --> 0:55:53.480 buck vawn. They didn't they just couldn't tell it from 0:55:53.520 --> 0:55:57.000 the head, you know, don't criticize him for doing it. 0:55:57.000 --> 0:56:00.919 It was legal. It's it's ethical and the person didn't 0:56:00.920 --> 0:56:04.040 know it, so let's not chastise them for that. It's 0:56:04.120 --> 0:56:06.920 legal when you're asking that person to get on board 0:56:06.920 --> 0:56:08.759 with something that that there, you're asking them to get 0:56:08.760 --> 0:56:11.400 on board with some long term manage the plan that 0:56:11.440 --> 0:56:13.200 maybe they don't even they don't share that, they don't 0:56:13.200 --> 0:56:16.800 share the desire. That's right. They shot a perfectly legal 0:56:16.880 --> 0:56:19.320 target there. That was an animal that is going to 0:56:19.440 --> 0:56:23.959 give them quality meat. They're gonna enjoy it. Don't ruin 0:56:24.000 --> 0:56:26.239 it for him. And the same thing I would say 0:56:26.239 --> 0:56:28.720 with that, we take it into a fact that um 0:56:28.719 --> 0:56:32.120 on harvest when biology just make those recommendations, they know 0:56:32.200 --> 0:56:35.480 there's a certain percentage of bearded tom's it's so much 0:56:35.560 --> 0:56:39.200 or bearded hens. It's small enough it doesn't factor into 0:56:39.200 --> 0:56:41.920 a significant part of the population that's going to hurt 0:56:41.960 --> 0:56:46.120 the population. So it's perfectly legal. Go ahead and do it. 0:56:46.520 --> 0:56:50.120 And it's probably the cleanest indicator for someone who's starting 0:56:50.120 --> 0:56:53.880 off turkey hunting to determine whether it's a tom or 0:56:53.880 --> 0:56:56.600 a hand. Is that beard? You can pick it up 0:56:56.719 --> 0:57:00.200 and see it and and visualize it for folk start 0:57:00.280 --> 0:57:03.160 just getting started. They're not used to looking at all 0:57:03.160 --> 0:57:06.000 the heads and behavior cues and all the rest of it. Oh, 0:57:06.040 --> 0:57:08.759 it's one of the hardest things. I remember struggling. So 0:57:08.960 --> 0:57:11.600 for at least two or three years, I'd have turkey's 0:57:11.640 --> 0:57:14.120 coming in close for age and the world is just 0:57:14.160 --> 0:57:16.120 all of a sudden, moving a million miles an hour, 0:57:16.160 --> 0:57:18.640 and it's spinning faster, and you're, you know, in your 0:57:18.640 --> 0:57:22.200 heart's beating between your ears with anticipation. Could just never 0:57:22.240 --> 0:57:24.400 be like, yeah, that there's a time that's him right there. 0:57:24.640 --> 0:57:27.120 Hunting with the hunting with Maggie and Tracy. One was 0:57:27.160 --> 0:57:28.640 their first turkey hunt. She's like, well, how do I 0:57:28.680 --> 0:57:31.680 know that. I'm like, oh, you'll just know. I thought 0:57:32.320 --> 0:57:34.439 I thought about, well, you know what to talk about this. 0:57:35.400 --> 0:57:38.440 I think we should touch on bag limits, because you know, 0:57:38.680 --> 0:57:43.000 the there's a difference between the face value of a 0:57:43.040 --> 0:57:47.480 bag limit and what the actual practical application of that 0:57:47.520 --> 0:57:51.000 bag limit is. Like there you can shoot four birds 0:57:51.000 --> 0:57:53.240 with no tags in Tennessee, but you can only kill 0:57:53.320 --> 0:57:57.360 one bird per day. That's right. So you know, bag 0:57:57.400 --> 0:58:02.200 limits have have their overall see season implications, but people 0:58:02.240 --> 0:58:04.560 need to realize that season length and the number of 0:58:04.600 --> 0:58:07.560 hunters are really the controlling force on it when you 0:58:07.600 --> 0:58:10.439 put bag limits on. For instance, I'll just use South 0:58:10.480 --> 0:58:14.160 Carolina because it's been hotly debated in the legislature lately. 0:58:14.680 --> 0:58:17.120 They wanted to go from a few years ago, they 0:58:17.840 --> 0:58:20.640 moved their season, they provide a longer season. With that, 0:58:20.680 --> 0:58:23.880 they cut the bag limit from five to three. Well, 0:58:23.920 --> 0:58:27.320 it really didn't do a whole lot because there aren't 0:58:27.400 --> 0:58:29.920 very many people that were shooting five turkeys, and so 0:58:30.120 --> 0:58:33.800 you're only nipping back the population of hunters for a 0:58:33.920 --> 0:58:36.840 very small percentage of those folks that were successful enough 0:58:36.920 --> 0:58:39.960 every year to take five birds. And something that I 0:58:40.040 --> 0:58:43.000 think about also is that the bird per day rule, 0:58:43.760 --> 0:58:47.920 because it's definitely happened to me where if it were 0:58:48.000 --> 0:58:53.360 legal to fill those tags and when one morning you 0:58:53.400 --> 0:58:56.320 would do it, I would have had the opportunity. But 0:58:57.040 --> 0:59:00.160 because I gotta wait to the next day to then 0:59:00.240 --> 0:59:03.320 have a valid turkey tag, again, I had no opportunity. 0:59:03.400 --> 0:59:07.200 No opportunity, no opportunity. Sometimes the birds don't cooperate. Sometimes 0:59:07.240 --> 0:59:09.479 you can't go out, You've got to actually go work 0:59:09.520 --> 0:59:11.760 for a living. You know, it could be that, you know, 0:59:11.840 --> 0:59:14.560 as a Sunday Monday, it could be the weather conditions 0:59:14.560 --> 0:59:17.720 are different. Um and those birds. Just about the time 0:59:17.760 --> 0:59:19.800 you think you've got them patterned and figured out, they 0:59:19.800 --> 0:59:24.280 prove you wrong every time. So you uh, I'm trying 0:59:24.280 --> 0:59:26.560 to I'm trying to track what you're saying, so you 0:59:27.040 --> 0:59:30.680 instinctively don't see a problem or do see a problem 0:59:30.800 --> 0:59:33.720 with the state saying like, oh, yeah, five turkeys, no problem. 0:59:33.800 --> 0:59:36.240 It depends on the state and whether their population is. 0:59:36.320 --> 0:59:38.760 But I do think a lot of times when you 0:59:38.840 --> 0:59:42.840 have um populations that when the biologists are setting up 0:59:42.880 --> 0:59:46.040 season recommendations, a lot of times in some states it's 0:59:46.040 --> 0:59:49.520 their legislature that sets the season's, not the agency itself. 0:59:49.600 --> 0:59:52.600 Its varies by state, but a lot of times what 0:59:52.640 --> 0:59:56.880 you'll see is UM legislators wanting to trade off days 0:59:57.160 --> 1:00:01.960 and then nip back the bag limit to comp and state. So, okays, 1:00:03.000 --> 1:00:05.080 that doesn't work that well, I mean, it just does. 1:00:05.480 --> 1:00:08.160 It's not a trade off. Your season length and the 1:00:08.240 --> 1:00:10.320 number of hunters are going to have a far greater 1:00:10.440 --> 1:00:12.880 impact on your harvest than what your bag limit is 1:00:12.920 --> 1:00:15.320 going to be. So I'm tracking what you're saying. Now, Okay, 1:00:15.400 --> 1:00:18.760 I got what you're saying now, So that's where they 1:00:18.800 --> 1:00:22.280 really need to listen to the biologists and realize that 1:00:22.400 --> 1:00:26.040 it isn't for you can't necessarily compensate for a super 1:00:26.120 --> 1:00:28.800 long season because you might be harvesting them before the 1:00:28.800 --> 1:00:32.760 birds are are really fully bred. You might be disrupting 1:00:32.800 --> 1:00:36.920 that breeding. And number two, having that really long season 1:00:36.920 --> 1:00:40.360 and a high hot hunting population. Even if you cut 1:00:40.400 --> 1:00:43.320 back that bag limit, there's such a small percentage of 1:00:43.360 --> 1:00:45.800 people that that can put it together take you know, 1:00:46.160 --> 1:00:49.360 five birds or whatever the maximum is, that you're really 1:00:49.440 --> 1:00:52.560 not having that much impact. I'm restricting that season at 1:00:52.560 --> 1:00:55.320 that point. So you could have the bag limit and 1:00:55.440 --> 1:00:57.680 double the season, and you're gonna have a lot more 1:00:57.760 --> 1:01:00.400 dead birds, you got it? Yeah, I mean, I just 1:01:00.640 --> 1:01:07.000 looking at fishing regulations this morning, and it's just it's 1:01:07.040 --> 1:01:13.160 really hard to put reality on those regulations. I'm like, oh, man, 1:01:13.200 --> 1:01:14.640 I really want to put a bunch of fish in 1:01:14.640 --> 1:01:17.720 the freezer. Oh great, here's a reservoir that I can 1:01:17.760 --> 1:01:21.360 put thirty croppy per day. Yeah. I'm never caught a 1:01:21.360 --> 1:01:23.760 croppy in my life. The odds to me putting thirty 1:01:23.800 --> 1:01:26.840 croppy in the boat are pretty bad, you know. But 1:01:26.880 --> 1:01:29.040 I look like if I'm about fifty a day and 1:01:29.040 --> 1:01:35.320 there's no closed season, I'm you know, thousands upon thousands 1:01:35.320 --> 1:01:38.280 of croppy you talked earlier. You mentioned with big game 1:01:38.360 --> 1:01:41.160 hunting you have the quality states and you have the 1:01:41.160 --> 1:01:45.680 opportunity states. Okay, that usually is reflective when you go 1:01:45.720 --> 1:01:47.760 back and look at how many people are a licensed 1:01:47.800 --> 1:01:53.320 hunter within that state. Usually it is tied to if 1:01:53.360 --> 1:01:57.120 you have a smaller hunting population or a smaller population 1:01:57.200 --> 1:02:00.520 in your state. For the population of an moles out 1:02:00.520 --> 1:02:03.640 there that you're hunting, you're gonna be able to support 1:02:03.640 --> 1:02:07.640 a quality regulations and seasons that will because you're not 1:02:08.120 --> 1:02:12.000 exploiting that population as greatly as you would with a 1:02:12.040 --> 1:02:16.960 population that has a lot more hunters, and and they 1:02:17.040 --> 1:02:19.200 go out there and they take a lot more animals. 1:02:19.240 --> 1:02:22.720 Michigan's perfect example. When I start my career, we had 1:02:23.120 --> 1:02:25.720 we had damn near a million licensed by your arm hunters. 1:02:27.200 --> 1:02:32.440 You don't grow old deer in that scenario. No, can 1:02:32.480 --> 1:02:35.600 I get in one more question before we move on. So, 1:02:35.960 --> 1:02:38.200 in some place like the Great Plains where you have 1:02:39.160 --> 1:02:42.919 potential for all three species of turkeys, Rio's, Mariam's Easterns, 1:02:43.080 --> 1:02:47.040 is there any more species? It's part of the question. 1:02:47.120 --> 1:02:50.600 Is there any concern for hybridization? Like long term there 1:02:50.720 --> 1:02:54.560 is like having turkeys could potentially be a problem. Well, 1:02:54.680 --> 1:02:59.200 I won't say concerned, but does does hybridization happen? Absolutely? Right? 1:02:59.240 --> 1:03:01.920 But is there any cern about it happening? Or like 1:03:03.160 --> 1:03:05.720 places that are like in Nebraska or whatever, they're like 1:03:05.920 --> 1:03:08.640 you could kill Miriam's a rio on the eastern all 1:03:08.960 --> 1:03:11.800 all the same farm. It's like, come on, well, no, 1:03:11.840 --> 1:03:14.120 but that's not what he's getting at. If there's any 1:03:14.440 --> 1:03:18.800 like worry that that could negatively affect turkey populations, that 1:03:18.640 --> 1:03:20.280 that would be bad for right, Like if all of 1:03:20.320 --> 1:03:23.480 a sudden, white tails and mule deer were just hybridizing 1:03:23.520 --> 1:03:26.200 all the time, that'd be a bad deal. Those are 1:03:26.240 --> 1:03:29.800 two distinct species. I know what most people consider these 1:03:30.160 --> 1:03:36.680 like varieties. They're not even like legitimately subspecies. So yes 1:03:36.720 --> 1:03:39.880 and no, um, And I'll give you an example in 1:03:39.920 --> 1:03:44.560 the Waterfall front okay, um, I'll take it away. And 1:03:44.840 --> 1:03:48.160 when we had when we don't dealt with geese populations 1:03:48.240 --> 1:03:50.480 up on the tunder, we had these subspecies and we 1:03:50.520 --> 1:03:53.760 tried to manage it by subspecies in the flyway, so 1:03:53.800 --> 1:03:57.440 that you had James Bay birds and and Mississippi Valley birds, 1:03:57.440 --> 1:04:01.680 and we tried to keep you know, distinct populations. You 1:04:01.680 --> 1:04:03.680 mean Canada geese. Yeah, and it's in fact, when I 1:04:03.720 --> 1:04:06.000 thought we had twenty some kinds of Canada geese, that's right, 1:04:06.120 --> 1:04:08.760 and they're breeding up on the grounds. So we had 1:04:08.800 --> 1:04:11.680 the We did it geographically, and we tried to just 1:04:12.160 --> 1:04:16.680 harvest and maintain those separate populations of those geese within it. 1:04:17.200 --> 1:04:20.480 And everybody was concerned when one population started to decline. 1:04:21.000 --> 1:04:23.760 Well wound up happening. As we started to use DNA 1:04:23.920 --> 1:04:27.080 to to sample those populations, we realized there's a lot 1:04:27.160 --> 1:04:29.360 more in breeding going on there, and there's a lot 1:04:29.480 --> 1:04:33.400 more of the mutts, you know, that really had genetic pools, 1:04:33.440 --> 1:04:36.160 and it wasn't as clean geographically as we really thought. 1:04:36.760 --> 1:04:41.200 So taking into turkeys, yes, you want to keep variability 1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:43.800 in your population because the more variability you have, the 1:04:43.880 --> 1:04:46.800 more ability you have that population to adapt to changes. 1:04:47.320 --> 1:04:49.520 You know, they're going to have, just like diversity in 1:04:49.600 --> 1:04:52.320 any population, the more diversity you have in it, you're 1:04:52.320 --> 1:04:55.240 gonna have some survivors that stand a better chance. And 1:04:55.320 --> 1:04:58.840 if it's a really homogeneous population, so yeah, you want 1:04:58.880 --> 1:05:01.800 to maintain that, but there's always gonna be some interbreeding 1:05:01.840 --> 1:05:04.440 of those birds and with it comes different diversity with 1:05:04.600 --> 1:05:08.640 it also, So yes, we don't want them all to 1:05:08.720 --> 1:05:13.480 be crossbreds or highbreds between those populations. But on the 1:05:13.560 --> 1:05:16.400 other hand, you're always going to get some variability because 1:05:16.440 --> 1:05:18.800 of the range and where they're located. They're going to breed. 1:05:20.120 --> 1:05:24.120 What I'm getting at here, Spencer, there's no okay, take 1:05:24.160 --> 1:05:31.400 the Eastern turkey and the Osceola turkey. It's you we 1:05:31.560 --> 1:05:36.440 like draw some arbitrary line across the state, right, but 1:05:36.520 --> 1:05:38.960 they just bleed into one another, I understand. But the 1:05:39.080 --> 1:05:42.800 National Wild Turkey Foundation draws that line. Excuse me, federation 1:05:42.920 --> 1:05:46.320 draws that line in the record books. You guys define 1:05:46.400 --> 1:05:49.560 them as the different subspecies. We do, and well, you know, 1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:53.160 it's it's how people like to classify and go out 1:05:53.280 --> 1:05:56.320 and gather the different birds. But you know, don't forget 1:05:56.520 --> 1:06:00.760 there has been interbreeding a wildlife, I mean, and there's 1:06:01.000 --> 1:06:03.960 mixing of it over time. And sometimes we like to 1:06:04.000 --> 1:06:05.919 look at a point of time and think it's clean 1:06:06.000 --> 1:06:08.200 and neat and tidy, and it's just not. It's messy. 1:06:09.000 --> 1:06:11.280 But when it comes to the different types of turkeys, 1:06:11.800 --> 1:06:19.360 Rio's Miriam's, Gould's easterns Osceolas, that's everybody, right, Uh, how 1:06:19.760 --> 1:06:23.080 like with current thinking and our understanding, a taxonomy changes 1:06:23.120 --> 1:06:27.360 all time with current thinking, like how legitimate are those 1:06:27.440 --> 1:06:30.240 designations and how is it not just that there's this 1:06:30.400 --> 1:06:32.800 thing it's the wild turkey, and there are slight color 1:06:32.920 --> 1:06:38.320 variations throughout the country. They're distinct enough that they're distinct 1:06:38.720 --> 1:06:42.280 um subspecies there um with it. But you're always going 1:06:42.320 --> 1:06:44.920 to have some of that interbreeding and part of it 1:06:45.160 --> 1:06:47.880 man is created too because we've moved these birds around 1:06:48.720 --> 1:06:52.320 um with that, so you've got populations where the habitat 1:06:52.440 --> 1:06:54.760 type might have looked like it was more attractive to 1:06:54.920 --> 1:06:57.880 various species, and we tried it. But we did that 1:06:58.320 --> 1:07:01.200 with other species around the country too. It's not just turkeys, 1:07:01.520 --> 1:07:04.640 you know. As we restored wildlife populations in this country, 1:07:04.760 --> 1:07:08.080 we moved wildlife. Heck, we moved it from Europe and 1:07:08.160 --> 1:07:12.080 Asia over here, and we put it out in landscapes 1:07:12.160 --> 1:07:14.919 and when it did well, it you know, it did well. 1:07:15.000 --> 1:07:17.680 And so the same thing is true with these restoration efforts. 1:07:18.080 --> 1:07:19.600 A guy wanted to me the thing that made me 1:07:20.800 --> 1:07:23.920 that keeps me like not fully understanding the subspecies thing 1:07:24.040 --> 1:07:27.720 or meaning half the time I feel like it's just 1:07:27.960 --> 1:07:29.960 there just different colors in different places, and half of 1:07:30.000 --> 1:07:32.320 time I'm like, okay, there's like a legitimate difference. Is 1:07:32.360 --> 1:07:33.880 a guy in Oregon was telling me when they were 1:07:33.920 --> 1:07:36.680 trying to get wild turkeys established in some areas of Oregon, 1:07:36.960 --> 1:07:40.480 they tried miriams and couldn't get them to stick and 1:07:40.560 --> 1:07:43.960 put reels in there and they took off. Now, they 1:07:44.000 --> 1:07:47.720 asked my well, what happened, and he had mentioned something 1:07:47.720 --> 1:07:50.320 about the I can't remember that one of them has 1:07:50.360 --> 1:07:55.960 like a higher likelihood of having a brood, just fit 1:07:56.120 --> 1:07:59.880 in that characteristic and was more successful. And he felt 1:08:00.040 --> 1:08:02.200 that it was the person outside who felt that it 1:08:02.320 --> 1:08:05.240 was that that was the thing where they took the 1:08:05.280 --> 1:08:08.280 birds from. And one couldn't figure it out, and one 1:08:08.320 --> 1:08:10.240 figured out and the other one figured it out. Yeah, 1:08:10.600 --> 1:08:13.120 So I mean there are things genetically different. I mean, 1:08:13.200 --> 1:08:16.040 look at what we tried to do with turkey restorations. 1:08:16.120 --> 1:08:19.200 Before we really had the technology to trap live birds, 1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:22.600 we tried to use these birds that were raised in 1:08:22.680 --> 1:08:26.680 game firms, I mean Pennsylvania Michigan birds for populations, and 1:08:26.800 --> 1:08:29.519 several where we had turkeys back in the fifties came 1:08:29.560 --> 1:08:33.479 from game farm. So then they were bronze broad breasted turkeys, 1:08:33.520 --> 1:08:38.280 but they were not genetically bred for real good survival 1:08:38.520 --> 1:08:41.439 in a wild environment. And those populations got out there 1:08:41.560 --> 1:08:44.920 and they maintained, but they were always they never grew, 1:08:45.200 --> 1:08:47.960 they never did really well. And when we brought in 1:08:48.160 --> 1:08:51.479 live birds and released them in adjoining habitats, they took 1:08:51.520 --> 1:08:54.479 off and did really well. So there's genetic variability in 1:08:54.520 --> 1:08:59.080 these populations. And and with that sometimes it fits different 1:08:59.600 --> 1:09:03.880 climate situations, you know, micro climates with the habitat is 1:09:04.040 --> 1:09:08.280 there and the rest of it. All right, good, good, 1:09:08.720 --> 1:09:10.960 No more like basic turkey trivia. I got a thousand 1:09:11.000 --> 1:09:14.040 basic turkey. But most of my fail most of them, 1:09:15.000 --> 1:09:18.479 most of them are, most of them are unanswerable. Um, 1:09:18.920 --> 1:09:21.679 we did have we did want to ask about the roost. 1:09:21.960 --> 1:09:26.160 Thing we didn't know about ruce was that in reference 1:09:26.200 --> 1:09:28.439 to that study that we were looking at. The study 1:09:28.479 --> 1:09:33.439 that really surprised me. It was on Southern Colorado. I 1:09:33.520 --> 1:09:37.479 believe so Miriam Turkey's Southern Colorado from back in the nineties, 1:09:37.680 --> 1:09:41.160 if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, And it was like that 1:09:43.320 --> 1:09:50.880 that on average a turkey only had a thirteen like 1:09:50.920 --> 1:09:53.120 a turkey only had a thirteen percent chance that he 1:09:53.160 --> 1:09:55.160 would roost in the same tree two nights in a row, 1:09:55.640 --> 1:09:59.840 and on average would roost a thousand yards away for 1:10:00.040 --> 1:10:04.160 where he roosted the night before, and that the first 1:10:04.280 --> 1:10:08.360 number decreased during turkey season and the second number increased 1:10:08.400 --> 1:10:10.920 during turkey season, which would legs you to believe that 1:10:10.920 --> 1:10:13.040 they really responded to the fact that every day when 1:10:13.080 --> 1:10:14.840 they wake up, there's some guy down there trying to 1:10:14.840 --> 1:10:18.519 call him in and shoot him. He's like, man, tomorrow night, 1:10:18.560 --> 1:10:21.120 I'm roosting way far away from here. Yeah. You know, 1:10:21.240 --> 1:10:23.280 it probably depends on how many hens are in the 1:10:23.400 --> 1:10:25.840 area and all the rest of it. Um. You know, 1:10:25.960 --> 1:10:29.519 when you hunt the same property over and over again, um, 1:10:29.960 --> 1:10:32.280 it winds up being one of those situations where you 1:10:32.479 --> 1:10:36.320 learn that where there you think about roost and traditional 1:10:36.439 --> 1:10:39.000 roosts and stuff, where they'll they'll come in there and 1:10:39.080 --> 1:10:41.040 roost one night, and then there won't be any birds 1:10:41.080 --> 1:10:43.400 there the next night, or they'll be half as many birds, 1:10:43.560 --> 1:10:46.800 and then the third night there's nobody there, and you 1:10:46.840 --> 1:10:50.160 wonder if it's you or whether those birds just move around. 1:10:50.439 --> 1:10:54.760 I personally think those birds move around and they they're 1:10:55.240 --> 1:10:57.880 they're opportunists, so they you know, they make good use 1:10:57.920 --> 1:11:00.680 of their daylight hours. They you know, they're kind of 1:11:00.760 --> 1:11:02.760 like we are. They get about get up about the 1:11:02.800 --> 1:11:05.000 same time. Even the days are getting longer, they get 1:11:05.080 --> 1:11:09.080 up about the same time every day. Um, they go out, 1:11:09.160 --> 1:11:12.519 they forage, their looking for hens, they're breeding, and then 1:11:12.560 --> 1:11:15.439 when it gets starts to be getting close to sunset, 1:11:15.560 --> 1:11:17.960 they're looking for the place to go to bed. Now 1:11:19.280 --> 1:11:21.920 every few days are coming back in and and having 1:11:22.479 --> 1:11:24.960 kind of in the same vicinity if their if their 1:11:25.000 --> 1:11:27.000 habitats that way, I mean when you look at those 1:11:27.040 --> 1:11:29.799 home ranges in terms of how far they stray and stuff, 1:11:30.200 --> 1:11:32.200 it's going to depend on the habitat quality. It's going 1:11:32.240 --> 1:11:34.200 to depend on how many hens are there in terms 1:11:34.240 --> 1:11:38.160 of how far he needs to roam and and how 1:11:38.400 --> 1:11:41.920 frequently he's coming back to the general vicinity. And then 1:11:42.240 --> 1:11:44.840 also with that forest type is going to be for 1:11:45.680 --> 1:11:47.639 whether there are a lot of trees. I'm sure they're 1:11:47.640 --> 1:11:51.960 a river corridor. They're cotton woods down in the southwest 1:11:52.600 --> 1:11:55.559 where they get hit up and roosted pretty routinely because 1:11:55.560 --> 1:11:58.439 there just aren't that many roost trees. And there are 1:11:58.439 --> 1:12:02.240 other woodlots and places and forested habitats where there are 1:12:02.320 --> 1:12:05.439 a lot of really significant roost trees that are gonna 1:12:05.520 --> 1:12:08.360 have good growth patterns that turkeys are comfortable on them. 1:12:08.680 --> 1:12:11.960 They're big enough, they're high enough that they're comfortable there 1:12:12.360 --> 1:12:15.160 that they're going to use. Um, they have lots of choices, 1:12:15.760 --> 1:12:18.040 so they're they're opportunistic, they're going to go out and 1:12:18.080 --> 1:12:21.080 not frequent the same particular roost tree. All that. Often, 1:12:21.479 --> 1:12:24.040 what's a long walk for for a male turkey in 1:12:24.080 --> 1:12:27.920 one day? Um, it depends on the habitat and where 1:12:27.960 --> 1:12:35.960 it is no turkeys around, you know, it varies from 1:12:36.320 --> 1:12:39.800 area to area across. With a particular study you're talking about, 1:12:39.880 --> 1:12:42.320 they were talking about a thousand meters was about the 1:12:42.400 --> 1:12:44.760 typical what they did. How far would he just in 1:12:44.840 --> 1:12:46.920 his travels throughout the day, how many miles would he 1:12:46.960 --> 1:12:49.679 put on? Well, I mean at that point you're looking 1:12:49.760 --> 1:12:53.360 at most of those turkeys are it's fairly small those turkeys, UM, 1:12:53.479 --> 1:12:57.040 in that particular study you're looking at during the breeding season, 1:12:57.680 --> 1:13:01.080 they were anywhere from fourty to eighty when you when 1:13:01.120 --> 1:13:03.880 you factored out the hectors translate it back in, so 1:13:03.960 --> 1:13:06.960 those aren't big areas, like that's what he's spending his 1:13:07.080 --> 1:13:08.680 day in that type of a little area. Yeah, I 1:13:08.720 --> 1:13:12.600 mean it's a fair so it's really but that was 1:13:12.680 --> 1:13:15.120 probably an area that had some decent habitat and they 1:13:15.160 --> 1:13:17.800 had some hens around and the rest of it. In 1:13:17.960 --> 1:13:21.360 other areas, you know, you can see it. So you've 1:13:21.400 --> 1:13:24.160 got several sections that those birds are moving around. So 1:13:24.240 --> 1:13:27.559 they're moving several miles to get around in those areas 1:13:27.680 --> 1:13:30.760 because there's not much cover um to get to roost 1:13:30.840 --> 1:13:33.600 trees at night, they got to move further. So some 1:13:33.720 --> 1:13:37.160 of those really wide open landscapes, those birds are moving 1:13:37.240 --> 1:13:40.439 further on a daily basis. And then other places where 1:13:40.439 --> 1:13:43.639 they're staying really tight in. They've got everything they need 1:13:43.720 --> 1:13:47.280 in pretty short areas, and there's competition if they move 1:13:47.360 --> 1:13:50.800 into their habitats. Man, them spending their whole day in 1:13:50.880 --> 1:13:52.600 forty acres makes you think it's just good. I just 1:13:52.760 --> 1:13:56.840 sit down and those situations are too good. Little trails 1:13:56.840 --> 1:13:59.000 of roads come together, and just that's thing I always say, 1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:00.680 like jerkey hunting, if you spend a few days on 1:14:00.760 --> 1:14:03.080 the property and you're looking at tracks, like, you know 1:14:03.080 --> 1:14:05.600 what we could have done just said that, pick a 1:14:05.680 --> 1:14:08.760 spot at the intersection of two trails and say, you 1:14:08.800 --> 1:14:11.320 know what, you guys do your thing. I'm gonna spend 1:14:11.400 --> 1:14:15.080 my three days sitting right here. I'm not gonna do anything. 1:14:15.200 --> 1:14:16.880 I'm not gonna make any noise. I'll be here at 1:14:16.880 --> 1:14:19.160 sun up and I'll wait till sundown, and you'd probably 1:14:19.160 --> 1:14:22.719 be a very effective turkey hunter. Just abide your time, 1:14:22.840 --> 1:14:24.960 you know. And the other thing that I thought that 1:14:25.680 --> 1:14:28.000 turkey hunters need to remember is a lot of folks 1:14:28.080 --> 1:14:30.120 go out. They get out there real early in the morning, 1:14:30.200 --> 1:14:32.160 before the birds get off the roost. You know, they're 1:14:32.200 --> 1:14:35.280 going out way before daylight, and then they're coming in 1:14:35.960 --> 1:14:38.880 a couple hours after sunrise. You know, they're working for 1:14:38.960 --> 1:14:40.760 a couple of hours. And that's a great time to 1:14:40.840 --> 1:14:42.880 be out in the turkey woods. Yeah, you know, when 1:14:42.960 --> 1:14:46.320 it's eight, nine o'clock, ten o'clock in the morning, that's 1:14:46.320 --> 1:14:48.360 the time where you want to sit tight and let 1:14:48.439 --> 1:14:52.000 all those other yahoo's in the vicinity go to work 1:14:52.160 --> 1:14:54.400 do what they're gonna do. But about their time, they're 1:14:54.400 --> 1:14:56.720 going back and make their money. That's right, get their 1:14:56.760 --> 1:14:59.160 cup of coffee, whatever they're going to do. You need 1:14:59.240 --> 1:15:01.240 to sit tight at that point because those birds move 1:15:01.280 --> 1:15:03.840 in a response to it. Okay, that's a hot turkey 1:15:03.880 --> 1:15:06.280 hunting tip from Becky Humphreys. Now, you guys spend a lot, 1:15:06.400 --> 1:15:10.320 like your organization spends time on government policy. We do 1:15:11.240 --> 1:15:13.040 what does that look like? Like, what do you go 1:15:13.120 --> 1:15:17.120 down there and you're like, we need more turkeys about 1:15:17.120 --> 1:15:20.200 the federal level, we don't do that because management and 1:15:20.240 --> 1:15:22.960 wild turkeys falls to the state authority. So we do that. 1:15:23.240 --> 1:15:26.080 You know, we we have through our chapter system, we 1:15:26.160 --> 1:15:30.559 advocate when it comes to regulations, seasons, um, funding for research, 1:15:30.920 --> 1:15:32.640 those types of things. So you guys will go to 1:15:32.720 --> 1:15:35.920 a state and say, we feel that you're going about 1:15:36.000 --> 1:15:38.639 this the wrong way. Yeah, most of the time we're 1:15:38.680 --> 1:15:41.760 working with the agency along with it through helping to 1:15:41.840 --> 1:15:45.479 fund research to help move forward good science on it. 1:15:45.600 --> 1:15:47.840 So we like to work hand hand in hand with 1:15:47.960 --> 1:15:51.080 that that state agency. We're partners with most of them. 1:15:51.360 --> 1:15:53.639 And we actually have a technical committee that was formed 1:15:53.640 --> 1:15:57.080 before we even had biological staff with the Turkey Federation. 1:15:57.520 --> 1:16:01.080 That's made up of Turkey specialists for the state agencies 1:16:01.560 --> 1:16:04.439 in our federal agencies, and we call that the Technical Committee. 1:16:04.479 --> 1:16:06.640 They meet a number of times during the year and 1:16:06.760 --> 1:16:10.160 we share that that good scientific information. We try and 1:16:10.280 --> 1:16:13.400 come in and help them so that there UM we 1:16:13.479 --> 1:16:17.080 can support good management, and typically it's when an agency 1:16:17.240 --> 1:16:21.120 is getting pressured doing something UM legislatively that's going to 1:16:21.160 --> 1:16:25.360 be detrimental that population or restrict hunting too much. At 1:16:25.400 --> 1:16:28.200 the federal level, we try and we try and narrow 1:16:28.240 --> 1:16:30.519 our focus so we can really be effective on the 1:16:30.600 --> 1:16:33.439 areas where we have good expertise. We really work on 1:16:34.160 --> 1:16:37.640 UM forest management issues. So a lot of the the 1:16:38.439 --> 1:16:40.920 work that's been done to try and get more active 1:16:40.960 --> 1:16:44.439 forest management and try and correct this fire suppression funding 1:16:44.520 --> 1:16:47.000 problem we have in the country, we've been very active 1:16:47.080 --> 1:16:49.880 on that. I've gone fire suppression funding. You're not saying 1:16:49.920 --> 1:16:52.360 you want more money to suppress well, I'm saying the 1:16:52.439 --> 1:16:55.400 forest US Forest Service over the course of time, because 1:16:55.479 --> 1:16:58.400 we've had we've had we've not kept up with the 1:16:58.439 --> 1:17:01.439 growth cycles and we have more are more fuel loads 1:17:01.479 --> 1:17:04.200 building up in our national forests, not burning enough, not 1:17:04.320 --> 1:17:08.080 cutting enough. We've got older forests, so we're getting a 1:17:08.120 --> 1:17:10.599 build up on it, and with that, we're having these 1:17:10.800 --> 1:17:14.599 large wildfires that are occurring. And it's we've also come 1:17:14.640 --> 1:17:19.720 off a period of UM unusually high rainfall. Now we're 1:17:19.760 --> 1:17:23.280 heading into a more drought type situation. And then you've 1:17:23.320 --> 1:17:27.240 got disease. I mean, we've got trees dying off, We've 1:17:27.280 --> 1:17:30.880 got some climatic changes going. But all that's culminating in 1:17:31.000 --> 1:17:34.320 these mega forest fires that we're seeing, and so we 1:17:34.520 --> 1:17:38.240 have the Forest Service has has moved a lot, had 1:17:38.479 --> 1:17:42.120 to move a lot of their funding to fight those 1:17:42.200 --> 1:17:46.120 forest fires and put in specialists and fire suppression to 1:17:46.240 --> 1:17:50.599 try and combat and control those fires. And as a result, 1:17:50.640 --> 1:17:53.760 they have less funding available to do the proactive management 1:17:53.880 --> 1:17:56.640 to keep our forests healthy. So we've been working with 1:17:56.800 --> 1:17:59.599 Congress and trying to get the money in the right direction, 1:18:00.080 --> 1:18:02.360 money in the right direction, and also take away some 1:18:02.479 --> 1:18:04.920 of the barriers that there are. Um, they're always going 1:18:04.960 --> 1:18:07.719 to be people that don't like the idea of active 1:18:07.800 --> 1:18:10.720 forest management. They want to leave it alone. But it 1:18:10.800 --> 1:18:13.479 has you know, we're not living in a situation anymore 1:18:13.600 --> 1:18:15.960 where we can just let it go and it's we're 1:18:15.960 --> 1:18:19.160 gonna like the results of it. But you're not leaving 1:18:19.160 --> 1:18:22.120 me alone when we do fires, when we put out fires. No, 1:18:22.560 --> 1:18:24.680 you're not leaving alone. You gotta you gotta make up 1:18:24.760 --> 1:18:27.360 for you know, I mean, you've already like you've already 1:18:27.479 --> 1:18:30.800 entered into sort of a false pretense on it, that's right. 1:18:30.920 --> 1:18:34.080 I mean, we have as humans, we have taken away 1:18:34.120 --> 1:18:37.560 a lot of these these fire driven habitats. We have 1:18:37.720 --> 1:18:41.120 taken away the cycle of fire on it that occurred 1:18:41.200 --> 1:18:43.920 so regularly. It kept those fuel loads down low. It 1:18:43.960 --> 1:18:47.120 would burn the pine needles and the dead woody vegetation, 1:18:47.640 --> 1:18:49.720 so you didn't have it ladder up, you didn't have 1:18:49.800 --> 1:18:51.920 it climb up those trees and crown and then just 1:18:52.080 --> 1:18:55.840 go on these huge fires that burn everything down. And 1:18:55.880 --> 1:18:58.840 when you have these really hot, extensive forest fires, it 1:18:58.920 --> 1:19:01.680 actually burns the top soil off the ground. And then 1:19:01.720 --> 1:19:04.240 the problem is afterwards you have rain and you have 1:19:04.920 --> 1:19:07.760 you have the soil gets loose, so you have mud 1:19:07.840 --> 1:19:12.280 slides and tremendous you know, saltation in your streams and 1:19:12.320 --> 1:19:14.479 your water course as a result of it. And it 1:19:14.600 --> 1:19:19.680 takes it takes decades to restore those those landscapes to 1:19:19.800 --> 1:19:23.200 that um. You know, you can see areas um in 1:19:23.320 --> 1:19:25.720 my home state of Michigan where I was, you can 1:19:25.800 --> 1:19:28.840 see places where those forest fires after they cut down 1:19:28.880 --> 1:19:32.200 the white pine forests in northern Michigan, they had fires 1:19:32.280 --> 1:19:36.040 that literally swept across the peninsula. And with that because 1:19:36.040 --> 1:19:39.960 they had all that down vegetative material that had died off, 1:19:40.280 --> 1:19:43.479 and it burned that top soil in places where we 1:19:44.240 --> 1:19:46.920 are just now starting to see forest cover back come 1:19:46.960 --> 1:19:49.720 back into it. It wasn't capable of growing anything but 1:19:49.920 --> 1:19:55.640 liking for decades and decades and fire, Oh my god, 1:19:55.680 --> 1:19:58.240 it's a horrific story, man. Yeah, I mean some of 1:19:58.320 --> 1:20:01.320 these wells and getting live in their own wells and 1:20:02.320 --> 1:20:05.519 crazy fires, well families getting wiped out, I mean, you know, 1:20:05.640 --> 1:20:11.479 in those dats, and so I mean it's it's we 1:20:11.600 --> 1:20:14.320 have altered the landscape. So we've got to deal with 1:20:14.400 --> 1:20:16.960 the fact that we don't at this point in time 1:20:17.160 --> 1:20:19.640 on our on our forest, we're not keeping up with 1:20:19.720 --> 1:20:22.639 the growth cycles, and we're getting these fuel build ups, 1:20:22.720 --> 1:20:25.439 and we either have to become much more engaged and 1:20:25.560 --> 1:20:28.960 actively manage those forests or we got to be willing 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:32.600 to suffer the consequences. And part of the consequences is 1:20:32.680 --> 1:20:35.719 we have people actually building in some of those forests also, 1:20:35.800 --> 1:20:39.360 so you've got homes, large homes, sometimes very expensive homes 1:20:39.960 --> 1:20:42.800 right within it. And there it takes resources to go 1:20:42.920 --> 1:20:45.160 out and try and put in fire lines and protect 1:20:45.240 --> 1:20:48.080 those resources and get people evacuated and get them out 1:20:48.120 --> 1:20:51.680 of those communities that are built right in fire prone landscapes, 1:20:51.720 --> 1:20:53.360 and that sucks money out of doing the kind of 1:20:53.400 --> 1:20:56.200 wildlife work. That's right, that's right. So I'd rather put 1:20:56.200 --> 1:20:59.679 the money towards the proactive management and get our forests 1:20:59.720 --> 1:21:02.719 so that they don't have these build up a fuel loads, 1:21:02.760 --> 1:21:05.560 that we manage them more actively with prescribed fire and 1:21:05.720 --> 1:21:10.600 cutting regime regimes. And then that we also need to 1:21:10.640 --> 1:21:13.360 think about some of these places, how much how much 1:21:13.439 --> 1:21:15.880 we're as a public going to invest in people that 1:21:15.960 --> 1:21:18.519 want to build large homes and in holdings and some 1:21:18.640 --> 1:21:22.320 of that problem. Look at the risk, right, risk your 1:21:22.400 --> 1:21:25.880 fancy home in a spot that nobody built there for 1:21:25.960 --> 1:21:29.080 a reason. You put a lot of people at risk 1:21:29.160 --> 1:21:32.120 when you ask some fire crew full eighteen year old 1:21:32.200 --> 1:21:34.040 kids go in there and try to say it. Yeah, 1:21:34.200 --> 1:21:37.760 it's and you know it's heartbreaking for people. Um you know, 1:21:37.880 --> 1:21:40.559 you see whole communities wiped out. So anyhow, we've been 1:21:40.600 --> 1:21:44.160 working with Congress on that and and there are um 1:21:44.680 --> 1:21:47.640 some folks that feel very strongly and we've used a 1:21:47.720 --> 1:21:50.080 lot of our laws that are on the books right 1:21:50.120 --> 1:21:53.280 now that we're intended to give the public input into 1:21:53.360 --> 1:21:57.519 planning processes and and bring challenges against government when they 1:21:57.560 --> 1:22:03.080 are unduly negatively impacted. But we've got groups and individuals 1:22:03.120 --> 1:22:06.639 are using those laws to really slow down the active 1:22:06.720 --> 1:22:11.919 management process outside public comment, yeah, or bringing lawsuits. Primarily 1:22:11.960 --> 1:22:15.639 it's lawsuits, bringing lawsuits against the Forest Service in these 1:22:15.680 --> 1:22:19.640 particular cases. And over time, then your processes get so expensive. 1:22:19.960 --> 1:22:23.879 You're spending all your time and energy on the planning process, 1:22:24.000 --> 1:22:26.160 you're not ever getting to the management, and then you're 1:22:26.160 --> 1:22:29.200 having to pay even more because of the result of 1:22:29.360 --> 1:22:31.679 lack of management, because they have this kind of like childish, 1:22:31.720 --> 1:22:33.800 sort of naive idea that the best thing for all 1:22:33.920 --> 1:22:36.719 forests has let all even though you're not even talking 1:22:36.760 --> 1:22:39.880 about and most often the case, you're not talking about 1:22:40.000 --> 1:22:42.599 native old growth stuff anyways, you're talking about disturbed egos. 1:22:43.280 --> 1:22:45.600 They're already disturbed from the start, that's right, And so 1:22:46.040 --> 1:22:49.040 it's a philosophical difference. It's a very expensive way to 1:22:49.080 --> 1:22:53.640 iron out that philosophical difference. Uh. To back up for 1:22:53.680 --> 1:22:56.280 a second, you're talking about your you guys talk about 1:22:56.280 --> 1:22:59.960 state involvement, federal involvement. Don't name any names or please 1:23:00.000 --> 1:23:03.160 eas but I doubt you'll want to. Uh. Do you 1:23:03.360 --> 1:23:10.240 encounter states that seem to be very receptive to your 1:23:11.000 --> 1:23:15.519 professional input in states that kind of run a course 1:23:15.920 --> 1:23:17.680 where you're like, that's not the way to do this, 1:23:18.040 --> 1:23:20.200 and they don't want to really listen, or do you 1:23:20.280 --> 1:23:22.400 or do you guys get pretty good buying from state 1:23:23.240 --> 1:23:25.639 I have to say we have, UM, we have pretty 1:23:25.640 --> 1:23:29.320 good buy in from state wildlife agencies. We a couple 1:23:29.360 --> 1:23:33.439 of things that you know, having run a state agency before. UM, 1:23:33.560 --> 1:23:35.880 we don't come in and try and lecture states how 1:23:35.920 --> 1:23:38.960 they should do things, especially there are regional differences and 1:23:39.080 --> 1:23:44.080 cultural differences on how populations like to run their natural resources, 1:23:44.120 --> 1:23:46.800 and we try and be respectful of that. We also 1:23:46.920 --> 1:23:49.920 try and be proactive in helping the state agencies if 1:23:49.960 --> 1:23:52.599 they have needs, if they have scientific needs, if they've 1:23:52.640 --> 1:23:55.360 got questions, if they want to learn from other states 1:23:55.760 --> 1:23:59.040 on stuff of sharing that information behind in a safe 1:23:59.160 --> 1:24:02.000 environment that they can get hold of it and have 1:24:02.160 --> 1:24:05.880 those conversations and really try it out and and and 1:24:06.400 --> 1:24:09.320 know what they're getting into as they get into those 1:24:09.400 --> 1:24:12.200 discussions before they come real public, because at that point 1:24:12.200 --> 1:24:14.559 in time, you're you know, it's tough to be wrong 1:24:15.000 --> 1:24:19.719 on things once you've gone out publicly and or whatever 1:24:20.000 --> 1:24:22.839 that's right, So we try and take a proactive approach 1:24:22.920 --> 1:24:25.640 on that. UM. You know, there are other issues we 1:24:25.760 --> 1:24:29.200 work on a national level. We try and maintain making 1:24:29.280 --> 1:24:31.760 sure that there's really good access to our public lands 1:24:31.840 --> 1:24:36.640 out there, making sure that regulations that unnecessarily hamper the 1:24:36.800 --> 1:24:39.439 ability to go out and hunt those those lands are 1:24:40.120 --> 1:24:43.639 we're not putting those in place. UM, try and get 1:24:43.680 --> 1:24:46.920 the make sure that the federal agencies are respective of 1:24:47.760 --> 1:24:50.360 UM people that want to go out and use firearms 1:24:50.439 --> 1:24:53.479 and those lands and hunt those lands, fish those lands, 1:24:53.600 --> 1:24:57.320 hike those lands. Involved in that stuff. Yeah, we take 1:24:57.360 --> 1:24:59.120 a very active role in it because that's one of 1:24:59.160 --> 1:25:02.519 the criticisms I have of the conservation space in generals. 1:25:02.560 --> 1:25:04.960 I feel like you have, you know, a lot of 1:25:05.000 --> 1:25:09.000 groups who focus very heavily on hunting rights, and you 1:25:09.040 --> 1:25:12.120 have groups that focus heavy on habitat and wildlife. I 1:25:12.160 --> 1:25:13.840 feel like in a lot of cases, I think that 1:25:13.960 --> 1:25:16.000 those two things should be melded together a little bit 1:25:16.080 --> 1:25:19.479 better too, as a holistic package. It's why I'm at 1:25:19.520 --> 1:25:21.920 the Turkey Federation. And to be honest with you, when 1:25:21.960 --> 1:25:23.920 I looked and I worked with a lot of different 1:25:23.960 --> 1:25:26.040 conservation groups out there, and there's a lot of really 1:25:26.080 --> 1:25:28.479 good ones. But I agree with you. I think it 1:25:28.600 --> 1:25:33.000 takes both habitat management and it takes people using that landscape, 1:25:33.040 --> 1:25:37.080 carrying about it, and being those future conservationists to really 1:25:37.320 --> 1:25:40.920 get the full picture. We can't pull people out of 1:25:40.960 --> 1:25:43.880 the equation. You just can't. We're part of the ecosystem, 1:25:43.960 --> 1:25:47.760 We're part of the influence on that landscape. And um 1:25:48.040 --> 1:25:51.400 I want there always to be segments and a big 1:25:51.520 --> 1:25:54.800 chunk of our population that really understands what's going on 1:25:54.920 --> 1:25:59.280 in those landscapes and advocates for wise management and also 1:25:59.400 --> 1:26:03.240 realize that our wildlife are renewable resources. We don't have 1:26:03.439 --> 1:26:07.160 to I mean, most of these populations, they have high 1:26:07.240 --> 1:26:11.439 turnover and and hunting can be compensatory. It replaces other 1:26:11.560 --> 1:26:14.439 types of mortality out there. And I just as soon 1:26:14.520 --> 1:26:18.639 have people use that that food source it's out there 1:26:19.479 --> 1:26:21.840 and have it us and value it as a way 1:26:21.960 --> 1:26:24.600 to get part of their protein and what they like 1:26:24.760 --> 1:26:28.520 to enjoy and be connected to that landscape and understand 1:26:28.600 --> 1:26:34.120 it on the federal level, like in d C. What 1:26:34.280 --> 1:26:37.240 are some of the what are some of the changes 1:26:37.240 --> 1:26:38.960 you've seen going on in d C. Do you do 1:26:39.040 --> 1:26:44.639 you find that people is it like, Uh, you're enjoying. UM, 1:26:46.360 --> 1:26:48.680 a lot of people who sort of instinctively understand the 1:26:48.760 --> 1:26:51.519 concerns you have. Is that landscape changing a little bit? 1:26:52.000 --> 1:26:55.879 Is it harder to explain your mission? Um? It depends. 1:26:56.040 --> 1:26:58.040 I see there's glimmer as of hope. I mean we 1:26:58.160 --> 1:27:01.720 have in the House. We have UM Congressman Westerman, who 1:27:01.880 --> 1:27:04.760 is a forester and he's really been the lead on 1:27:04.800 --> 1:27:08.040 a lot of this forest initiative. So it's been helpful 1:27:08.160 --> 1:27:09.800 to be able to work with him and his staff 1:27:09.880 --> 1:27:12.640 because he's a trained forester, or he gets it and 1:27:12.760 --> 1:27:16.040 he's willing to work with leadership and and and move forward. 1:27:16.120 --> 1:27:19.479 Good regulations, UM, good changes that are going to think 1:27:19.560 --> 1:27:24.559 help move us forward. There isn't necessarily I will say, Washington, 1:27:24.680 --> 1:27:27.559 d C. Since I've been working in it, it's got 1:27:27.680 --> 1:27:31.439 more contentious, more polarized. It's tough with some of the 1:27:31.560 --> 1:27:34.840 big issues our country is facing right now, a lot 1:27:34.920 --> 1:27:38.400 of the issues on conservation and some of the challenges 1:27:38.520 --> 1:27:41.960 we have. Do you wind up getting positions and polarization 1:27:42.360 --> 1:27:47.160 where people are talking, Um, they're not talking about ways 1:27:47.280 --> 1:27:49.920 that they can work together to achieve getting there, but 1:27:50.000 --> 1:27:54.040 they're taking positions and whenever that happens, where it's all 1:27:54.160 --> 1:27:56.320 or nothing or we don't this is off the table, 1:27:56.400 --> 1:27:59.840 we can't even talk about it. That doesn't lead us 1:28:00.000 --> 1:28:03.760 on the path of really great decision making. But it 1:28:03.880 --> 1:28:06.840 takes people sitting around the table, and by it has 1:28:06.920 --> 1:28:09.840 to come about with bipartisan support. It has to be 1:28:10.120 --> 1:28:13.240 by Camber. Can't be just a Senate, can't be just 1:28:13.360 --> 1:28:15.120 a house. It has to be both in order to 1:28:15.160 --> 1:28:19.640 get it into law. So it's it's tough, and we 1:28:19.720 --> 1:28:22.720 have people, more and more people in Congress who have 1:28:23.000 --> 1:28:26.240 not I mean, we're as a population in general, and 1:28:26.360 --> 1:28:30.800 Congress represents that population. We are now several generations off 1:28:30.840 --> 1:28:33.360 the farm and ranch. By and large, fewer and fewer 1:28:33.479 --> 1:28:36.519 people are living in those rural environments, living off the land, 1:28:37.000 --> 1:28:40.840 and so their direct knowledge and understanding of those landscapes 1:28:41.520 --> 1:28:45.040 is impacted by that. Yeah, I always tell people, it's 1:28:45.200 --> 1:28:49.080 really easy to understand how detached these folks are from 1:28:49.800 --> 1:28:53.840 some of these outdoor situations. All you gotta do is 1:28:53.960 --> 1:28:56.479 go walk around the tunnels in d C. Or at 1:28:56.560 --> 1:28:58.800 those those folks working on the hill don't even get 1:28:58.840 --> 1:29:01.720 to go outside. Yeah, it's and you know, and you 1:29:01.800 --> 1:29:04.400 can't blame them. It's not that they don't want to know, 1:29:04.600 --> 1:29:07.080 they just don't know. So some of the most effective 1:29:07.120 --> 1:29:10.000 things you can do sometimes they're getting getting people out 1:29:10.360 --> 1:29:13.439 to see stuff in the field, to actually do tours 1:29:13.520 --> 1:29:16.160 of active management, to see that, so that they're not 1:29:16.320 --> 1:29:18.680 hearing it from people that saying, oh my gosh, this 1:29:18.760 --> 1:29:21.920 timber cut was just devastating. Look at looks terrible. Go 1:29:22.080 --> 1:29:25.599 out and look at a forest that was hasn't been thin, 1:29:25.720 --> 1:29:27.880 look at one that has been thin, look at one 1:29:28.479 --> 1:29:31.519 that that see an area that's been burned over, and 1:29:31.640 --> 1:29:34.240 see some of the degradation that occurs from that forest 1:29:34.360 --> 1:29:38.360 fire as opposed to a timber cut um and and 1:29:38.800 --> 1:29:41.559 have that real life knowledge so that when they're talking 1:29:41.600 --> 1:29:44.400 about these issues they can visualize that it makes more 1:29:44.479 --> 1:29:48.639 sense to them. Yeah, I think that you're also asking 1:29:48.720 --> 1:29:50.439 I mean, you're kind of asking a lot of people 1:29:50.600 --> 1:29:55.240 to understand all the complexities and nuance that are involved 1:29:55.280 --> 1:29:59.200 in landscape management where there's not a lot of hard 1:29:59.240 --> 1:30:02.840 and fast rule to live by. I think that, you know, 1:30:02.920 --> 1:30:08.800 we have a cabin up in Southeast Alaska and they're, um, 1:30:09.040 --> 1:30:11.760 there's a very legitimate argument, and I and I feel 1:30:11.840 --> 1:30:15.559 this way personally where um, I think we're cutting too 1:30:15.640 --> 1:30:19.599 much old growth timber. So but that's a very different 1:30:19.680 --> 1:30:24.920 thing where you're talking about these coastal like coastal rainforest 1:30:25.040 --> 1:30:28.360 areas that have five and six hundred year old trees 1:30:29.160 --> 1:30:32.960 that you're not gonna like. It's not that you're not 1:30:32.960 --> 1:30:35.200 gonna go back that. So it's like, how could I say, oh, 1:30:35.240 --> 1:30:38.520 I don't want them, I want to slow down, Curtail. 1:30:38.640 --> 1:30:42.040 I'd love to see the end of old girls timber 1:30:42.120 --> 1:30:46.680 harvest on public lands in southeast Alaska. But how can 1:30:46.720 --> 1:30:50.840 I then turn around and say in northern Michigan, Um, 1:30:51.560 --> 1:30:54.400 we need to be catton Because people are like, well, 1:30:54.439 --> 1:30:56.000 how could both those things be true? And it's like, 1:30:56.080 --> 1:30:58.519 because it's just we live. It's a complicated planet. It 1:30:58.680 --> 1:31:02.720 is complicated, and it gets to accessibility, It gets to 1:31:02.960 --> 1:31:06.639 what those those species are, It gets to how quickly 1:31:06.720 --> 1:31:10.920 it regenerates, what those soil types are, and what's already happened, 1:31:11.560 --> 1:31:13.400 and there is you know, And that's the thing that 1:31:13.560 --> 1:31:17.880 we talk in generalities when we it, we try and 1:31:18.040 --> 1:31:22.000 simplify the system for discussion sake, and in that simplification 1:31:22.160 --> 1:31:24.240 you lose some of the nuance with I think it 1:31:24.320 --> 1:31:29.200 became logging is bad. People love absolutes, right, It's like, well, 1:31:29.280 --> 1:31:32.720 tell me what the problem is, loggat it? What's next? 1:31:32.920 --> 1:31:35.960 And isn't that as a biologist, You're like, well, actually, 1:31:36.000 --> 1:31:38.080 there's a myriad of problems. I'm like, well, I don't 1:31:38.080 --> 1:31:41.759 have a time for that. Yeah, that anti logging campaign 1:31:42.120 --> 1:31:44.120 you know that we all grew up with. It must 1:31:44.160 --> 1:31:46.880 have been like the eighties. I'm guessing right, that must 1:31:46.920 --> 1:31:49.200 have been when the spotted owl. It's the spotted owl 1:31:50.840 --> 1:31:53.519 late eighties, early nine, early nineties and think the way. 1:31:53.600 --> 1:31:55.599 But yeah, I mean it took me a while into 1:31:55.640 --> 1:31:58.960 adulthood to sort of have my own personal you know, 1:32:00.520 --> 1:32:03.200 enlightenment about logging to be like, oh, yeah, it's not 1:32:03.439 --> 1:32:06.200 always bad, because that was just pounded into my head 1:32:06.280 --> 1:32:09.080 through whatever channels. My parents never told me that logging 1:32:09.200 --> 1:32:12.680 was bad, but the marketing of that, you know, you 1:32:12.800 --> 1:32:15.000 got into my head. Well. And I mean Smoke of 1:32:15.040 --> 1:32:19.440 the Bears another one of those campaigns that's been highly successful, 1:32:19.960 --> 1:32:22.360 to the point where people don't like prescribe fire that 1:32:22.479 --> 1:32:30.320 much because they have fire is bad. She wouldn't do that. 1:32:30.439 --> 1:32:33.080 It seems like a straightforward fellow. He's like a straight 1:32:33.120 --> 1:32:40.160 shooter old smoky. Okay, you had mentioned that you wanted 1:32:40.200 --> 1:32:45.800 to discuss personal goals for mentoring a new hunter. Well, 1:32:45.840 --> 1:32:48.639 I think we should all have personal goals, so I'll 1:32:48.680 --> 1:32:50.200 look at all you don't want to tell us about 1:32:50.200 --> 1:32:53.600 your personal goals. So, uh well, I mean, we have 1:32:53.680 --> 1:32:56.640 a new pledge going on with our corporate sponsors right now, 1:32:56.760 --> 1:32:59.080 trying to get every one of our members to make 1:32:59.120 --> 1:33:01.880 a personal commit method. They at least mentor one new 1:33:02.000 --> 1:33:05.600 hunter every year, and so, and you know, we we 1:33:05.800 --> 1:33:07.800 asked him to sign a pledge form. We asked him 1:33:07.840 --> 1:33:10.760 to report back on that pledge form with us. You're 1:33:10.760 --> 1:33:16.160 already good, all right, Spencer? Not this year yet? Last 1:33:16.240 --> 1:33:20.320 year yet? Yeah? I don't know about last year either. 1:33:20.320 --> 1:33:24.200 How about the year before? Yes? Good? Possibly last year 1:33:24.240 --> 1:33:26.439 definitely the year before, Yes, And that wasn't just because 1:33:26.439 --> 1:33:29.680 you met your wife or something. Now and taking an 1:33:29.680 --> 1:33:32.960 old college room mate the first time, that's good stuff. 1:33:33.560 --> 1:33:35.960 I'd like to I'd like to brag that last year 1:33:36.000 --> 1:33:38.760 I did it as well. My neighbor took him out 1:33:39.520 --> 1:33:42.479 hunting first time. Yeah, tearing it up on the pledge. 1:33:42.960 --> 1:33:46.439 We need to give him a retroactive pledge. There you go, well, 1:33:47.600 --> 1:33:50.040 it's an actual sheet. It's an actual sheet. We asked 1:33:50.080 --> 1:33:53.040 him to sign it, um write their name down on it. 1:33:53.160 --> 1:33:56.320 We kicked it off at our annual convention this year, 1:33:56.960 --> 1:33:59.680 and we are trying to get every one of our 1:33:59.760 --> 1:34:03.200 members to do that because that's what's gonna take. I mean, 1:34:03.240 --> 1:34:06.759 when you look at the demographics of hunters in this country, 1:34:07.360 --> 1:34:10.240 we're going to see a pretty start start decline with 1:34:10.360 --> 1:34:12.880 the baby boomers as they start to age out of hunting. 1:34:13.240 --> 1:34:16.360 And if we don't start getting other folks to replace that. 1:34:16.960 --> 1:34:19.360 And everybody loves to do the kids programs, and we're 1:34:19.400 --> 1:34:22.400 one of them. We have a really robust Jake's program. 1:34:22.479 --> 1:34:25.200 We've done it for years. You love it. But those 1:34:25.280 --> 1:34:27.240 kids aren't going to grow up fast enough to replace 1:34:27.280 --> 1:34:29.880 the baby boomers. We've got to get those adult hunters 1:34:29.920 --> 1:34:33.120 out there. We've got to get the twentiesomthing's that either 1:34:33.200 --> 1:34:35.760 weren't exposed to it or or didn't do it enough 1:34:35.840 --> 1:34:38.320 to make it part of their lifestyle. We've got to 1:34:38.360 --> 1:34:40.479 get them to feel welcome and that's something that they 1:34:40.520 --> 1:34:43.080 want to do and enjoy the lifestyle and and think 1:34:43.120 --> 1:34:46.320 of themselves as hunters. There's gonna be somebody listening, probably 1:34:46.360 --> 1:34:48.960 more than probably ten percent. Maybe I don't know. A 1:34:49.040 --> 1:34:52.160 bunch of people listening, they're gonna say that ain't true. 1:34:52.560 --> 1:34:56.120 We're not losing any hunters. Show me one person that 1:34:56.240 --> 1:34:59.439 can say there's less hunters where I hunt now than 1:34:59.479 --> 1:35:02.479 there was ten years ago, which is a really good 1:35:02.800 --> 1:35:05.640 interesting point. You can't. You can't flip it about it. 1:35:05.760 --> 1:35:08.880 You can't. You can't at all. It's like, oh, yeah, right, 1:35:08.960 --> 1:35:10.840 hunt used be guys everywhere. Now I go there and 1:35:10.920 --> 1:35:13.639 no one's around. It's just Turkey's gobblin every which way. 1:35:14.680 --> 1:35:17.200 I did want to run it into one guy in Colorado. 1:35:17.400 --> 1:35:19.519 It's been a few years now, this is maybe five 1:35:19.720 --> 1:35:23.360 seven years ago, but he did say that he noticed 1:35:23.400 --> 1:35:26.439 it because they hunted very dense forest and he felt 1:35:26.479 --> 1:35:29.080 like there was there's less camps along this road, this 1:35:29.240 --> 1:35:31.680 forest Vist road everybody used to camp and then he 1:35:31.800 --> 1:35:34.240 felt like a lot of success was due to more 1:35:34.400 --> 1:35:37.559 guys in the woods back in the day, moving more 1:35:37.640 --> 1:35:40.960 animals around, and now they didn't have that, there was 1:35:41.040 --> 1:35:43.800 less success, and he did complain about having less people 1:35:43.960 --> 1:35:46.960 out there. But that's interesting. That being said, I wonder 1:35:47.040 --> 1:35:50.120 sometimes if it's not a Western thing right, we hunt 1:35:50.240 --> 1:35:53.639 big western open vast landscapes. We can see a lot 1:35:53.760 --> 1:35:56.439 more so we see more people. Well, plus more people 1:35:56.479 --> 1:35:59.320 are people that the people that are are hunting are 1:36:00.040 --> 1:36:05.479 more inclined. There's a greater likelihood that they are hunting 1:36:05.600 --> 1:36:09.960 multiple states and traveling around. That's that's true too. Like use, 1:36:10.040 --> 1:36:11.639 habits change, and then you have a lot of states 1:36:11.680 --> 1:36:14.560 that aren't seeing declines you have, you know, then you 1:36:14.640 --> 1:36:17.639 go to these states, so you know, you say, it's 1:36:17.640 --> 1:36:21.120 like Michigan, Pennsylvania and you're seeing declines that you're not 1:36:21.240 --> 1:36:25.560 experiencing whelming. That's true. There's changing, I mean, and it 1:36:25.640 --> 1:36:28.439 has changed over time, but overall the licensed number of 1:36:28.520 --> 1:36:32.360 licensed hunters as a whole is declining through the federal surveys. 1:36:32.640 --> 1:36:34.639 Do you find it more like maybe where you guys 1:36:34.680 --> 1:36:38.000 are at in the southeast, Um, yeah, I think the 1:36:38.080 --> 1:36:40.599 Eastern United States is seeing it faster than the Western 1:36:40.720 --> 1:36:44.880 United States. Um. And and it varies by state. Some 1:36:45.080 --> 1:36:47.240 states are seeing nice. You know, part of it is 1:36:47.360 --> 1:36:50.280 populations of those states also, you know, I happen to 1:36:50.360 --> 1:36:53.120 be from a state. In terms of Michigan that we 1:36:53.320 --> 1:36:57.000 lost overall population, we lost almost two million people during 1:36:57.040 --> 1:37:00.479 the ecademic downturn. What really, Yeah, so the one from 1:37:00.520 --> 1:37:04.000 ten years ago, Michigan came out of that with fewer citizens. 1:37:04.120 --> 1:37:07.720 It did a lot of fewer and so as a 1:37:07.800 --> 1:37:10.439 result of that, you lost hunters as part of that. Also, 1:37:11.439 --> 1:37:16.639 so where they go sun Belt all all over, they're like, dude, 1:37:16.640 --> 1:37:18.360 we're in the rust belt, this place called the sun Belt, 1:37:20.040 --> 1:37:23.080 and you have other states that are seeing population gains 1:37:23.200 --> 1:37:26.880 and with that, um changing demographics in those particular states, 1:37:26.960 --> 1:37:30.679 and and sometimes um with it, you're seeing increasing hunters 1:37:30.720 --> 1:37:34.920 and sometimes you're seeing a decrease in hunters. So it's 1:37:35.760 --> 1:37:37.880 you know, it changes around the country. But overall, the 1:37:37.960 --> 1:37:40.160 total number of hunters and the age of hunters is 1:37:40.200 --> 1:37:43.200 getting older every single year, which means you've got no 1:37:43.520 --> 1:37:47.400 bottom of the population of hunters coming into the scenario. 1:37:47.720 --> 1:37:49.639 Go on with your point, you're gonna make a point 1:37:51.200 --> 1:37:53.200 of the people are gonna, well, no, that was it. 1:37:53.439 --> 1:37:55.439 They're just gonna say, how can that? How can that be? 1:37:55.720 --> 1:37:59.000 I though, you're gonna extend that to what, like the 1:37:59.080 --> 1:38:03.040 perspective of why in the world. No, I mean, we've 1:38:03.120 --> 1:38:06.360 explored why in the world would you ever even suggest 1:38:06.479 --> 1:38:10.439 a desire to have more hunters like that? Makes no sense, right, 1:38:10.640 --> 1:38:14.120 Why would you want more people out screwing up your hunt, 1:38:14.680 --> 1:38:20.280 which is also legitimate thing to say, Oh yeah, we're 1:38:20.320 --> 1:38:22.960 our own worst enemy when it comes to that, Yeah 1:38:23.040 --> 1:38:26.800 we don't. I mean, we're all guilty of it. Not 1:38:26.920 --> 1:38:30.320 in my spot, you don't, especially coming out of from 1:38:30.320 --> 1:38:34.000 a turkey hunter. Turkey huntings where you gets shot well, 1:38:34.120 --> 1:38:37.160 and we've all been there where you're out, you go out, 1:38:37.240 --> 1:38:39.639 you set up that morning, you've got that perfect place, 1:38:40.360 --> 1:38:45.840 and then there's somebody else calling. You're like, darn, yeah, 1:38:46.040 --> 1:38:49.240 we hunted some public Animasouri last spring, Mienani did. And 1:38:49.240 --> 1:38:51.600 when you heard a gobble, instead of like wanting a 1:38:51.640 --> 1:38:54.720 gobble gobbler to keep gobbling, you heard a gobble, and 1:38:54.760 --> 1:38:56.880 you're like, please shut up, please shut up, please shut up, 1:38:57.760 --> 1:39:00.679 no matter what. Pretty soon it's like your car door 1:39:00.760 --> 1:39:08.320 on some ridge and then like the races on. Let's right, so, 1:39:08.840 --> 1:39:11.840 but it is I mean, if we've got a window 1:39:11.880 --> 1:39:14.720 of time here that is pretty short that we've got 1:39:14.840 --> 1:39:17.400 to replace those baby boomers, which are the biggest bubble 1:39:17.479 --> 1:39:20.080 of licensed hunters in the country right now, to participate 1:39:20.320 --> 1:39:23.439 their parents. Hunting participation was so high for their parents, 1:39:23.560 --> 1:39:26.280 that's right. So as much as it hurts, go out 1:39:26.360 --> 1:39:29.760 and mentor somebody that's right, and don't pick else. Don't 1:39:29.800 --> 1:39:35.639 pick anybody that's less than twenty years of age. I think. 1:39:36.040 --> 1:39:39.080 I think that is a point that shouldn't be glossed over. 1:39:39.240 --> 1:39:42.000 Is is there is no set age for a first 1:39:42.040 --> 1:39:45.400 time hunter. No, there's not. And you know, it's the 1:39:45.479 --> 1:39:47.439 cool part of it is you can take people out 1:39:47.520 --> 1:39:51.040 that might have hunted their entire life, who have wanted 1:39:51.080 --> 1:39:54.240 to go hunting, or maybe they don't even recognize they 1:39:54.240 --> 1:39:56.679 wanted to go hunting, but they go out and enjoy 1:39:56.760 --> 1:39:59.160 it and it opens up a whole new world for him. 1:40:00.080 --> 1:40:01.800 But you know, the other part of it is stick 1:40:01.880 --> 1:40:05.640 with them. It takes more than one hunting experience. You know, 1:40:05.840 --> 1:40:08.080 it's intimidating to try and figure out what kind of 1:40:08.120 --> 1:40:11.640 equipment you need and how it's fun to go out 1:40:11.680 --> 1:40:14.719 with somebody who's all done all the research and scoping 1:40:14.800 --> 1:40:17.000 and loans your their equipment, takes you out there and 1:40:17.360 --> 1:40:20.560 and calls in a bird or whatever you're hunting species is, 1:40:21.120 --> 1:40:22.519 and you get a chance to go out and be 1:40:22.640 --> 1:40:25.000 part of it. It's another to then go out and 1:40:25.080 --> 1:40:27.280 be self sufficient, so you gotta stick with them to 1:40:27.360 --> 1:40:30.160 be there, that mentor that tells them, Okay, you want 1:40:30.160 --> 1:40:32.600 to go out and get a firearm, here's here are 1:40:32.680 --> 1:40:34.640 some recommendations. I'll go with you if you want to 1:40:34.680 --> 1:40:38.000 go talk to the person at the at the gun store, 1:40:38.640 --> 1:40:41.879 or here's here's what I recommend for some basic equipment. 1:40:42.160 --> 1:40:45.160 Or you know, here's so and so that also hunts. 1:40:45.280 --> 1:40:47.000 Maybe you want to link up with them, because I'm 1:40:47.000 --> 1:40:49.439 gonna be gone next month, but maybe you'd like to 1:40:49.479 --> 1:40:51.960 go hunt with them, because we know it takes social 1:40:52.120 --> 1:40:55.200 that social network. You guys have it because you you 1:40:55.320 --> 1:40:58.240 live it every day. But for other folks, as we 1:40:58.439 --> 1:41:01.559 become more mobile as a popular nation, trying to link 1:41:01.640 --> 1:41:04.560 up with other people in our communities who share that 1:41:04.640 --> 1:41:09.040 same lifestyle, it's we're not we don't join clubs anymore. 1:41:09.080 --> 1:41:11.960 We don't join conservation clubs and some of that stuff. 1:41:12.040 --> 1:41:13.920 So and and I, you know, I hope they do. 1:41:14.080 --> 1:41:16.839 I hope I'll give a plug for National Wild Turkey Federation. 1:41:17.280 --> 1:41:21.519 You know, if you moved to a new community, or 1:41:21.600 --> 1:41:23.280 if you're just are part of a community and you 1:41:23.360 --> 1:41:25.400 want to meet people that hunter and can introduce you 1:41:25.520 --> 1:41:28.599 to it, go join the local chapter of the Nationale 1:41:28.640 --> 1:41:31.719 Turkey Federation. That's the hot tip I've been giving people 1:41:31.720 --> 1:41:34.160 all because we we when we do live shows. We here, 1:41:34.200 --> 1:41:37.160 we talked to a bunch of people and um, it's like, 1:41:37.200 --> 1:41:39.040 all right, what's the best tip for getting involved? Like 1:41:39.080 --> 1:41:41.960 a hunted two years and haven't seen anything yet, And 1:41:42.040 --> 1:41:44.600 I'm like, I didn't do this because everyone's different, Like 1:41:44.680 --> 1:41:47.080 I just grew up like very immersed in it. I 1:41:47.160 --> 1:41:49.320 was like, what I would do now that I realize 1:41:49.320 --> 1:41:53.080 how things work is I would get involved volunteering with 1:41:53.200 --> 1:41:57.280 the conservation group in your area. Because you're gonna get 1:41:57.320 --> 1:41:58.880 in there and start doing stuff and people are gonna 1:41:58.920 --> 1:42:01.280 be feel sorry for you. They're gonna make You're gonna 1:42:01.320 --> 1:42:05.559 make friends and and get involved in activities through social 1:42:05.680 --> 1:42:08.880 interactions and through organized events. That's the other part of it. 1:42:08.920 --> 1:42:11.080 And you get those people a little drunk and you'd 1:42:11.120 --> 1:42:14.400 be like and pretty soon they'll say something like, I 1:42:14.520 --> 1:42:16.960 haven't been in there myself, but I have a good 1:42:17.120 --> 1:42:19.840 feeling that if you tried that spot those kind of 1:42:19.880 --> 1:42:24.960 conversations and fella might that's the sentence you're looking for. Well, 1:42:25.000 --> 1:42:27.000 on the other part of this helps motivate you to 1:42:27.040 --> 1:42:30.120 get out there, you know, when you're you're socializing talking 1:42:30.160 --> 1:42:32.960 about it, somebody has you over for you know, for 1:42:33.120 --> 1:42:35.880 venice and dinner afterwards, you're you're more inclined as you 1:42:35.960 --> 1:42:38.760 get immersed in the lifestyle to remember how much you 1:42:38.920 --> 1:42:42.240 enjoy it and make that effort to get out doing 1:42:42.320 --> 1:42:43.880 some rough math in my head, I feel like you 1:42:44.160 --> 1:42:46.680 need to have them mentor could you say in one 1:42:46.720 --> 1:42:49.720 person every year at least one, Yeah, because I think 1:42:49.800 --> 1:42:54.240 that it takes about four to have one stick. Just 1:42:54.400 --> 1:42:58.320 looking at my own set of experiences, You're probably right. Everyone. 1:42:58.560 --> 1:43:00.840 I've never had someone be like I wish I hadn't 1:43:00.880 --> 1:43:03.120 done that. There are always liked it was really like, 1:43:03.560 --> 1:43:06.559 very informative and really kind of change my perspective on things. 1:43:06.640 --> 1:43:08.400 Glad I did it. But that doesn't mean that they're 1:43:08.400 --> 1:43:11.920 going to then start, you know, go off on their 1:43:11.920 --> 1:43:14.519 own and starts. We've been you know, one of the 1:43:14.560 --> 1:43:16.760 things that we've been doing on these we've tried to 1:43:16.800 --> 1:43:19.720 move away from one and done um events that's what 1:43:19.840 --> 1:43:21.559 we call them. Where you come in, you take them 1:43:21.600 --> 1:43:23.560 out for a hunt, and then you're done. That's it. 1:43:24.080 --> 1:43:27.280 Where we try and work with other conservation organizations, so 1:43:27.400 --> 1:43:30.800 we we teach them the life skills. They learn how 1:43:30.880 --> 1:43:34.439 to hunt safely, get hunter safety, move through, go out 1:43:34.520 --> 1:43:38.000 on a hunt, try several different hunts. What we ideally 1:43:38.040 --> 1:43:40.240 would like to do is move people through that system 1:43:40.320 --> 1:43:43.640 so then they can become mentors to other folks. But 1:43:43.760 --> 1:43:47.280 it takes having them have exposure and meeting different people 1:43:47.360 --> 1:43:50.960 and having those different experiences multiple times to really start 1:43:51.040 --> 1:43:54.280 thinking themselves as hunters and getting the confidence to go 1:43:54.400 --> 1:43:58.040 out on their own or take somebody else out who 1:43:58.160 --> 1:44:03.080 hasn't hunted before. So you can't let those assumptions lie either. 1:44:03.479 --> 1:44:06.559 Like if you are successful to the point of having 1:44:06.600 --> 1:44:09.559 a bird or a buck on the ground, you can't 1:44:09.600 --> 1:44:12.880 just be like, cool, well take that to the processor. 1:44:13.880 --> 1:44:17.120 You're successful. Good job. Show him what to do with 1:44:17.200 --> 1:44:19.040 the meat too, I think he is a big deal, 1:44:19.640 --> 1:44:21.760 Like you gotta and then check their freeze or make 1:44:21.800 --> 1:44:24.680 sure they're using it. If not, yell at him, yes, exactly, 1:44:25.760 --> 1:44:35.680 humiliate them in front of their freaks. Well, and humiliate him. 1:44:37.600 --> 1:44:40.160 Got got final thoughts about a wedge in there, kel, 1:44:42.000 --> 1:44:45.599 I know I've been wearing a hat and a briar patch. Well, 1:44:45.720 --> 1:44:48.080 you know he had a tiny little head and only 1:44:48.120 --> 1:44:50.160 certain hats fit me, so I gotta stick with him 1:44:50.200 --> 1:44:51.880 while I got good. When you get one of the works, 1:44:51.920 --> 1:44:55.960 you stay and you stand by it. Yeah. Yeah, no man, 1:44:56.040 --> 1:44:57.680 I think we covered a lot of a lot of 1:44:57.760 --> 1:45:00.479 good stuff. And thanks for coming out and my pleasure, 1:45:00.880 --> 1:45:03.799 love love hearing all the good info. What's a lifetime 1:45:03.840 --> 1:45:08.240 membership cost? At the Old Turkey Federation, lifetime membership you 1:45:08.360 --> 1:45:12.280 can an annual membership is thirty five dollars, sponsorship is 1:45:12.320 --> 1:45:15.040 to fifty and then we stack memberships so you can 1:45:15.200 --> 1:45:19.559 continue to be lifetime memberships. Um, not a one lump 1:45:19.680 --> 1:45:22.320 some lifetime membership thing. No, I mean you can do that, 1:45:22.560 --> 1:45:24.760 but typically what we do is we like to get 1:45:24.840 --> 1:45:29.479 people back every single year and continue with someone buying 1:45:29.520 --> 1:45:32.519 and once then going that's right, because we want to 1:45:32.560 --> 1:45:35.080 have we want you to be active with us. I 1:45:35.120 --> 1:45:38.280 mean that's one of the things with National Wild Turkey Federation. 1:45:38.960 --> 1:45:41.040 We have so we have a pretty high percentage of 1:45:41.080 --> 1:45:43.519 folks that not only are members but are volunteers. So 1:45:43.680 --> 1:45:47.080 they come in, they put in and learn to hunt workshops, 1:45:47.160 --> 1:45:48.760 they go out there and do the Women in the 1:45:48.840 --> 1:45:51.240 Outdoors events, they do the Jake's events, they do the 1:45:51.280 --> 1:45:54.240 Willins events, they go out and do habitat work or 1:45:54.320 --> 1:45:58.320 they work at the capitol in their respective states and so, 1:45:58.680 --> 1:46:01.760 and that is what's special about it because those people 1:46:02.120 --> 1:46:05.280 are really engaged in Yeah, I can't just like cut 1:46:05.320 --> 1:46:06.800 a check and then go vanish for the rest of 1:46:06.800 --> 1:46:10.960 my well, you can, but really rather have you come 1:46:11.040 --> 1:46:15.840 back and be more invested. The strangest thing you've heard of? 1:46:15.920 --> 1:46:22.000 A turkey eat the strangest thing, because they mean they 1:46:22.439 --> 1:46:25.800 eat anything, They eat just about anything. It's the strangest 1:46:26.560 --> 1:46:29.040 or contender. I don't know that I can think of 1:46:29.200 --> 1:46:31.519 something that's really strange. What have you seen that on 1:46:31.600 --> 1:46:34.439 the lookout for that? Well, in Colonel Tom Kelly's a 1:46:34.479 --> 1:46:36.839 tenth Legion, he talks about watching them out eating crayfish 1:46:36.880 --> 1:46:40.120 from underwater. That's interesting, Oh that is that's true. That's true. 1:46:40.120 --> 1:46:41.800 I've heard a number of people bring that up. I've 1:46:41.800 --> 1:46:44.479 seen deer eat fish. Now that's pretty weird. Waiting and 1:46:44.600 --> 1:46:48.400 eating ale wives the footage of a deer eating baby 1:46:48.479 --> 1:46:51.280 birds out of a nest, which really changes how you 1:46:51.320 --> 1:46:53.920 feel about deer. That's true. I mean watching a watching 1:46:53.920 --> 1:46:58.240 a turkey swallow a snake is whether interesting. After the snakes, Yeah, 1:46:58.320 --> 1:47:02.240 they get really excited they do. Yeah, I've seen footage 1:47:02.240 --> 1:47:04.120 of that where a turkey standing out the field beating 1:47:04.160 --> 1:47:07.120 a snake to death, whipping it back and forth, trying 1:47:07.160 --> 1:47:09.519 to kill it and eventually gets it, yeah, and then 1:47:09.600 --> 1:47:13.640 gulping it down. Concluders, you know, you should you know 1:47:13.640 --> 1:47:16.360 what your concluders should be. You should have a concluder 1:47:16.479 --> 1:47:20.640 question where you say, what's the strangest way you've ever 1:47:20.720 --> 1:47:24.760 heard of a turkey dying? Unless you got something else. 1:47:25.240 --> 1:47:29.519 I got something else. You can take that one. But no, 1:47:29.640 --> 1:47:31.680 I'm always just so impressed. Man. We have a lot 1:47:31.800 --> 1:47:36.439 of guests on this show, and uh, Becky, you rarely 1:47:36.520 --> 1:47:38.360 say I don't know. Today I think you said I 1:47:38.400 --> 1:47:45.160 don't know to one of these questions, like oh yeah, 1:47:45.920 --> 1:47:48.160 what happens there. It's just very like I don't know. 1:47:50.120 --> 1:47:53.240 She's been Yeah. I'm just always so impressed because now 1:47:53.400 --> 1:47:56.160 knowing your background, because last time, the last podcast, I 1:47:56.160 --> 1:47:57.640 wish I knew the number off the top of my head. 1:47:57.680 --> 1:47:59.320 You should listen to that one too. But we really 1:47:59.400 --> 1:48:02.479 got your wory of you know, how you came career 1:48:02.560 --> 1:48:05.560 path and all your experiences and then it just it 1:48:05.680 --> 1:48:09.519 just so thoroughly comes out when we're chit chatting because like, yeah, 1:48:09.680 --> 1:48:13.200 the fact I've been around in the mill a couple 1:48:13.200 --> 1:48:17.519 of times, but that before finish your point a little 1:48:17.520 --> 1:48:20.800 more solid, beaus I might have misunderstood it. No, my 1:48:20.880 --> 1:48:23.519 own point is just that I'm impressed. Man, Like I said, 1:48:23.600 --> 1:48:28.439 she has the humility. You're saying that you appreciate that 1:48:28.520 --> 1:48:30.960 she has the humility to say I don't know, or 1:48:31.040 --> 1:48:33.759 that she rarely doesn't know. I didn't say that about 1:48:33.840 --> 1:48:39.599 the humility. That's a great um uh characteristic of people. 1:48:39.880 --> 1:48:42.120 I like to think that I can say that often too. 1:48:42.360 --> 1:48:44.200 I say it often, you know that I don't know, 1:48:44.439 --> 1:48:47.040 But she doesn't say it often, which is so impressive, 1:48:47.080 --> 1:48:49.920 you know, because she has a lot of yes, yes. 1:48:50.280 --> 1:48:53.120 But I took note of when she did and felt 1:48:53.600 --> 1:48:56.559 uh proud and happy to know where that she would 1:48:56.560 --> 1:48:59.040 be like, I don't know. It's great for us Turkey 1:48:59.080 --> 1:49:01.080 geeks because we just it around here and just ask 1:49:01.200 --> 1:49:04.519 weird Turkey questions and she's like, yeah, yeah, let me 1:49:04.560 --> 1:49:06.200 tell you about this that. And you know, that's where 1:49:06.240 --> 1:49:09.040 you run up against the trouble talking to biologists is 1:49:09.800 --> 1:49:14.599 I'm interested in like what's the weirdest, right, and they're 1:49:14.640 --> 1:49:16.760 kind of biologists is more like, well, we're kind of 1:49:16.800 --> 1:49:21.320 a little more focused on sort of like what happens, happened, 1:49:21.680 --> 1:49:26.160 what normally happens, So I appreciate it. My concluder is 1:49:26.240 --> 1:49:29.320 that before we started recording, Becky and I were talking 1:49:29.360 --> 1:49:32.760 about the National Wild Turkey Federation Convention that happens in 1:49:32.920 --> 1:49:37.120 Nashville every week around Valentine's Day, that's right, And she 1:49:37.240 --> 1:49:38.640 was telling me what a good time it is, and 1:49:38.680 --> 1:49:42.040 I was saying that it must be right, but you 1:49:42.080 --> 1:49:44.360 didn't stay along. I think we should go back next year. 1:49:45.360 --> 1:49:47.519 We would love to have you back, maybe do a 1:49:47.560 --> 1:49:49.600 little something. Call and I were talking about doing a 1:49:49.640 --> 1:49:56.720 little uh, like a seminar called drumsticks and dies, something 1:49:56.760 --> 1:50:00.880 along those lines, as you can make them real good 1:50:01.000 --> 1:50:03.840 and and be like, tell me this ain't good. You know, 1:50:04.040 --> 1:50:06.720 that's what we call that booth something like that, this 1:50:06.800 --> 1:50:09.040 ain't good. But yeah, she just tell me what a 1:50:09.160 --> 1:50:12.000 party it is and what a good time, how people 1:50:12.120 --> 1:50:14.439 like take family vacations to be there. And I was 1:50:14.520 --> 1:50:17.200 just I was noticing that a lot of other conservation 1:50:17.360 --> 1:50:22.720 organizations there annual conventions aren't so hot anymore, and they 1:50:22.800 --> 1:50:25.240 might be losing participation where it seems like the Turkey 1:50:25.520 --> 1:50:28.920 Convention is just like we hear everybody's going there and 1:50:28.960 --> 1:50:32.439 it's not. People love it. Over fifty six thousand people 1:50:32.600 --> 1:50:34.960 or there last year. Yeah, that's where I met Will 1:50:35.040 --> 1:50:38.400 Primos real quick. Yeah, I mean, I mean it's so 1:50:38.600 --> 1:50:42.160 fun because you can you can we have secretaries of 1:50:42.800 --> 1:50:46.479 UM Agriculture, Secretary of Interior was there, in chief of 1:50:46.479 --> 1:50:49.880 the Forest Service and rcs and they're they're they're having 1:50:49.960 --> 1:50:52.840 dinner with people and you can have conversations with our 1:50:52.960 --> 1:50:56.439 members with those folks and then who's who of Turkey 1:50:56.520 --> 1:50:59.400 calling and all the rest of it. And so between 1:50:59.439 --> 1:51:03.240 the trades, know the events, the talks, the seminars. You 1:51:03.640 --> 1:51:06.320 you get a wide variety and it's fun. It's like 1:51:06.400 --> 1:51:09.240 a big family reunion. Is it Nashville this year? Yeah, 1:51:09.439 --> 1:51:14.000 it's in Nashville. Well, we used to move it around. UM. 1:51:14.120 --> 1:51:16.599 Last time we had we moved out in Nashville as 1:51:16.640 --> 1:51:20.040 when the glor wound up getting flooded and had to 1:51:20.120 --> 1:51:23.439 be closed. So it's probably about eight years ago, seventy 1:51:23.560 --> 1:51:27.480 years ago, and we had it in Atlanta, much smaller participation, 1:51:28.000 --> 1:51:30.120 but we have gotten so large that there are very 1:51:30.200 --> 1:51:34.000 few facilities that we can really host it. Um, well, 1:51:34.080 --> 1:51:36.479 don't move that thing to Las Vegas. Man, Well that's 1:51:36.520 --> 1:51:39.480 what I said. That and our membership. You know, historically 1:51:39.520 --> 1:51:43.599 our membership was more um heavier to the eastern United States, 1:51:43.640 --> 1:51:46.679 so we're within driving distance for a lot of our membership, 1:51:46.760 --> 1:51:48.800 so they can bring the whole family down and makes 1:51:48.840 --> 1:51:50.560 it really nice. Yeah, I have to go down and 1:51:50.640 --> 1:51:54.320 hang out. Please do around that floor and just pick 1:51:54.439 --> 1:51:59.000 up every single pot call and go you and everybody else. 1:52:00.000 --> 1:52:02.240 We should get a big stack thighs and drumsticks and 1:52:02.280 --> 1:52:04.479 do something fun. I'm gonna mend our title. It's gonna 1:52:04.479 --> 1:52:08.679 be called Turkey drumsticks, not just for driving intense stakes. 1:52:12.200 --> 1:52:15.559 So that would be great, man, if we had, if 1:52:15.560 --> 1:52:17.920 we were solicited from listeners a whole bunch of thighs 1:52:17.960 --> 1:52:21.960 and drumsticks, then went down and just had a taco truck. 1:52:22.520 --> 1:52:27.880 M we just gave out, don't talk too much about 1:52:27.960 --> 1:52:30.479 is gonna be held held to it now? Said if 1:52:31.840 --> 1:52:34.960 would be, We'd love to have you come down, Spencer, 1:52:35.000 --> 1:52:38.439 I don't have any concluders. Go ahead. Uh. The Turkey 1:52:38.520 --> 1:52:42.240 recovery stories like one of the coolest conservation stories there is. 1:52:42.320 --> 1:52:44.120 You know one time they said there was like thirty 1:52:44.200 --> 1:52:47.439 thousand that were left. And when people think of like 1:52:47.520 --> 1:52:49.920 imperiled species today like an I'm ranging t hang or 1:52:49.960 --> 1:52:53.160 an elephant, there's hundreds of thousands of those left and 1:52:53.439 --> 1:52:57.040 people think of how few there are. And so when 1:52:57.040 --> 1:52:59.000 you think about thirty thousand turkeys and how they're seven 1:52:59.040 --> 1:53:02.439 million today, that's crazy. So it's thank you to Becky, 1:53:02.800 --> 1:53:06.080 the NWTF and the agencies and all the people before you, 1:53:06.520 --> 1:53:09.880 because it's a really cool animal that you have brought 1:53:09.920 --> 1:53:12.200 back to this status that they're all over the continent. 1:53:12.920 --> 1:53:16.519 People think there's a trap of people thinking that things 1:53:16.720 --> 1:53:20.240 only get worse. That's right. And then when you learn 1:53:20.280 --> 1:53:24.599 about the story of American wildlife, like, oh, you can 1:53:24.680 --> 1:53:27.280 make the world better. You can. I used to give 1:53:27.320 --> 1:53:29.280 a talk when as a state director that these are 1:53:29.400 --> 1:53:32.280 the golden years, the great years, because you know, we 1:53:32.439 --> 1:53:35.280 spent a hundred years restoring a lot of these wildlife 1:53:35.320 --> 1:53:39.400 populations that just weren't around. But the Turkey Federation and 1:53:40.000 --> 1:53:43.680 then the Wild Turkey is a great success story. And 1:53:43.800 --> 1:53:46.840 it's it's nice because it's confidence boost to people that 1:53:47.000 --> 1:53:50.080 you really can with working together and effort, we can 1:53:50.320 --> 1:53:53.280 we can restore these species. We can enjoy them today 1:53:53.320 --> 1:53:56.599 and have them tomorrow. That's pretty cool. Yeah, good old 1:53:56.600 --> 1:54:01.519 American elbow Greece man uh in a in a nice 1:54:01.560 --> 1:54:04.320 incentive program. It is because you can go out and 1:54:04.439 --> 1:54:07.720 interact with these birds and hunt them and eat them. 1:54:07.840 --> 1:54:10.120 And that makes people be like, I'm in that's right, 1:54:10.200 --> 1:54:13.360 let's do it. And they're they're they're gorgeous. I mean, 1:54:15.040 --> 1:54:16.920 as I said, I probably told you guys this before 1:54:17.000 --> 1:54:19.400 my daughter when she was Lawi's used to calm glowbirds 1:54:20.240 --> 1:54:23.000 because they glow. You know, you bring back those toms 1:54:23.040 --> 1:54:25.519 and they're still they just glow in the iridescence and 1:54:25.640 --> 1:54:29.200 the feathers and everything else. Pretty spectacular. Yeah. One that 1:54:29.280 --> 1:54:31.840 you guys should work on is there's nothing that looks 1:54:31.880 --> 1:54:36.640 worse than a wet turkey. That's true. You have to 1:54:36.760 --> 1:54:38.880 think some way to when you get a wet turkey 1:54:38.920 --> 1:54:40.960 to make them look nice again, because then you walk 1:54:41.040 --> 1:54:42.920 up on a wet turkey, it's not like walking up 1:54:43.480 --> 1:54:45.960 it's not like walking up on a dry turkey. You're right, 1:54:46.240 --> 1:54:48.840 it's not not a glow bird anymore. Yeah, to tell 1:54:48.920 --> 1:54:54.160 the person normally a spectacular all right, Well, thank you 1:54:54.280 --> 1:54:57.120 very much, thank you people can find you guys obviously 1:54:57.200 --> 1:54:59.800 if you type in National Wild Turkey Federation, I mean 1:54:59.840 --> 1:55:03.960 they dot org. Yeah, and you're looking to get into 1:55:04.040 --> 1:55:07.080 turkey hunting man, go there and read because there is 1:55:07.280 --> 1:55:10.720 a just a I'm not going to use the expletitive 1:55:11.520 --> 1:55:14.680 term there, but just a lot of information. Like I 1:55:14.800 --> 1:55:16.640 still go there. I'm like, how could I not have 1:55:16.760 --> 1:55:19.680 read that article? And you can go there for good, 1:55:20.040 --> 1:55:24.200 um all like vocalizations and stuff, yep, all kinds of 1:55:24.280 --> 1:55:27.400 information and look up a local chapter. Get involved, get 1:55:27.440 --> 1:55:29.600 to know some of the people in your community that 1:55:30.120 --> 1:55:33.360 already are active and participate with the National Wild Turkey Federation. 1:55:33.440 --> 1:55:36.120 They're great people and we'd love to have new members 1:55:36.280 --> 1:55:39.400 join us. And get in your bids for the carbon 1:55:40.360 --> 1:55:44.280 carbon spider used the used left handed hoy carbon spider. 1:55:44.880 --> 1:55:48.880 Make your let us know your top bid and then 1:55:48.920 --> 1:55:52.800 we'll send the boat to whoever pledges the highest dollar 1:55:52.800 --> 1:55:55.720 amount to the National Wild Turkey Federation. And thank you 1:55:55.760 --> 1:56:05.320 Becky for coming on. Thank you m