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Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcasting in you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: fog bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything. Get everyone today. We're joined by most

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Speaker 1: prominently Becky Humphreys from National Wild Turkey Federation, who's been

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Speaker 1: on before. N w TF. Um, we're talking to you

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch. Before we do that, we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: to our very own Joe Fairto. That's all. Well, I know, Joe,

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Speaker 1: you were Italian. I know, but a lot of that's

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Speaker 1: been lost, a lot of my Italian this has drifted

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Speaker 1: fair Nado. Sure, I couldn't find your phone number my phone,

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Speaker 1: but this is your first time you've ever been on this,

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Speaker 1: first time you've ever stepped on, and you only here

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Speaker 1: for a minute. The trial run, we did the reason

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Speaker 1: Joe is here. Um, we did a if you write

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Speaker 1: and if you write an email into us, Joe will

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Speaker 1: likely reply or at least knows what's going on. Joe

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Speaker 1: was the gate Joe's the gatekeeper. Uh. We recently did

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Speaker 1: the thing where we were raising money. We we had

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Speaker 1: we had my former fish shooting bow right and we

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Speaker 1: told people, Hey, whoever promises to to whoever promises to

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Speaker 1: send the highest amount of money to t r CP

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Speaker 1: gets the fish shooting bow and Joe tell him what happened,

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Speaker 1: some of the challenges we faced and how we handled him. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we had a lot of people writing in

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Speaker 1: about it. Um my single not saying I'm not okay,

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Speaker 1: go ahead, I'm engaged. Yeah, he's heading out in the

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Speaker 1: opposite I was gonna putting a little plug for you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm good man. Okay, great, you can talk up that

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Speaker 1: fair Tono guy. Go on. But yeah, So, I mean

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Speaker 1: we had a lot of people right in, lots of

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Speaker 1: good donation offers. Probably the biggest struggle is people donating

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Speaker 1: the money before they received the bow, like a preemptive

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Speaker 1: emptive donation, thinking that they were going to get in anyway,

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Speaker 1: which I mean is awesome, but on on this next

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Speaker 1: giveaway and make sure that you don't donate until until

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Speaker 1: you realize that you're the one getting the bow. So

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Speaker 1: if you want, you could certainly donate, Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you want to, it's always no. And I think

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Speaker 1: what they were trying to do was I don't think

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Speaker 1: they thought they had got the bow. I think they're like, look,

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Speaker 1: how serious I am here? It already is. But then

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Speaker 1: we got another strange offer, another strange offer. It's twenty

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Speaker 1: five dollars a month for the next fifty years. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was thirty five, to live till eighty five. He said,

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Speaker 1: he's not planning to die until he was eighty five

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Speaker 1: years old. Credit card's gonna keep the same credit card

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Speaker 1: number for fifty years and then just donate a month

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Speaker 1: for the next fifty years. And we spent a long

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Speaker 1: time talking about that offer. Yeah, how did we fall

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Speaker 1: in the end? Um, we fell on the U. Probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't happen, probably wouldn't be continuous throughout that fifty years.

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Speaker 1: So we decided to do a lump sum right up front.

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Speaker 1: Nothing to get. Nothing against that fellow. Nothing agains. Just

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Speaker 1: a complicated process, very complicated legacy partner program which here

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Speaker 1: at Mediator, and we're not really set up to facilitate. Yea,

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Speaker 1: not really And tell them, um what that bow was,

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Speaker 1: not the one in your hand, not the new give boy,

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Speaker 1: the old fishbow, the oneida osprey. Yeah, yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty good fish left And here's the big thing. Left handed, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: left handed, because you're you're a left and left handed osprey.

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Speaker 1: Now explain the new bow. And this this is you

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Speaker 1: have to because Becky's here, So honor Becky being here.

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Speaker 1: You this bow. Whoever pledges to give the high US

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Speaker 1: amount to n w TF gets the bow. Explain the

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Speaker 1: boat because this is full. This is a ready to

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Speaker 1: shoot bow, always left the quiverful world traveling the world

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Speaker 1: travel bow. You could tell by the string needs a

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Speaker 1: new string. It's we might actually cut that string before

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Speaker 1: we send it to make sure you put a new

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Speaker 1: string on it, so be prepared to have it arrived

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Speaker 1: put no string on it. What do you think? What

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Speaker 1: do you think? Do you think it's the real liability

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Speaker 1: like that? No, I don't think it's gonna break. It

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Speaker 1: just needs to be waxed. Okay, we're not cutting a string.

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Speaker 1: This is a ready to shoot bow. And Joe was

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Speaker 1: gonna walk you through the accessory package. Can I tell

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Speaker 1: him what the bow is first? However you want to

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Speaker 1: do it? Yeah, So he's trying to tell Joe. He

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Speaker 1: was gonna be like Van of White, but Joe doesn't

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Speaker 1: know who Van of White is. The age is Joe,

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Speaker 1: I'm young, I'm sorry, but it's a white carbon spider

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Speaker 1: left handed obviously, Um, it's got the spot hug. I

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Speaker 1: believe it's called the hunter UM five pin side on

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Speaker 1: it with the microadjust it is. It's a good site. Um.

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Speaker 1: I've had it on my bows for many many years.

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Speaker 1: Um has the hoit ultra rest so it's just like

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Speaker 1: the q A D ultra rest drop away. Joel is

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Speaker 1: good at this, like knows the product names. He shoots

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Speaker 1: a bowl. Yeah, I'd be like, it's gotta you know,

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Speaker 1: uh flippy things, this thing that you lift up with

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Speaker 1: your stay. No, it's a it's a it's a great

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Speaker 1: rest uh in good condition. So you did a good

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Speaker 1: job taking care of it. Um. Then it has the

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Speaker 1: strings on it and yeah, like a little pulley things

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Speaker 1: on there, little thing. Yeah, you know it's good. It's

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Speaker 1: a sixty to seventy pound pound boll. Looks like it's

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Speaker 1: not maxed out right now what you're pulling like sixty

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Speaker 1: five Steve, Oh that's actually you know. Um. Then it

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Speaker 1: has a two piece white quiver, the one that attaches

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Speaker 1: straight to the bow. So it's not a removable quiver,

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Speaker 1: but it's a great bow. It's an awesome GiB away

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Speaker 1: And check this out when our new episodes uh roll

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Speaker 1: up on Netflix. You'll see that bow used. That boat

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Speaker 1: makes an appearance of quite a few. I was using

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Speaker 1: that bowl and we did our like Nevada hunt with

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Speaker 1: Roguan use that bowl and killed a real whopper of elk.

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Speaker 1: And last year, which will be on a thing, use

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Speaker 1: that bow down and I don't know if you ever

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Speaker 1: made it into the cut, but it was down in Guyana.

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Speaker 1: Definitely the curse out. Yeah, hunting birds down in South America.

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Speaker 1: Another episode where I miss um at point blank range,

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Speaker 1: I miss the Sika deer or that bow. Not the

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Speaker 1: bow's fault any mistakes you see, it would be like,

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Speaker 1: not that bow's faulty. You know, you know what should

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Speaker 1: you tell him? The draw links u UM. I'm guessing

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Speaker 1: since you're a twenty nine in a link that this

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Speaker 1: has said at twenty nine, and if it's not you,

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Speaker 1: that's probably I think it. To be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: I think so. Alright, So here's what you do. Tell

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Speaker 1: them how to do it, Tell him how to do

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Speaker 1: it that makes your life easier, and tell him what

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Speaker 1: how long you're willing to field offers. So this podcast

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Speaker 1: will drop on the Monday, and we'll leave that open

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Speaker 1: for two days. Will decide Wednesday. I'll reach out to

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Speaker 1: the person of the highest donation on Wednesday, and uh,

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Speaker 1: that's how you'll get the bill one time donation, that

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Speaker 1: one time donation. Don't try and finance your donations. We're

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Speaker 1: not gonna do that. We're not gonna set up the

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Speaker 1: legacy partnership with you. So do they send you like

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Speaker 1: a like a receipt or they just sit send an

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Speaker 1: email that says, hey, I'm going to pledge this much documentation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So once I reach out to them, I'll have them

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Speaker 1: go forward and send the receipt back in so with

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Speaker 1: confirmation that they don't make the money. They just send

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Speaker 1: an email saying I'm planning on pledging this amount exactly.

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Speaker 1: You have Becky here, have one of her people verify

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Speaker 1: that they that it came through. Yeah, we want to

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Speaker 1: make sure it's verified because we don't want to just

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Speaker 1: send Steve's world traveling bow to somebody didn't donate the money.

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Speaker 1: White carbon Spider, what do you I think We'll get okay?

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Speaker 1: Going and went for quite a bit above retail. Quite

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Speaker 1: a bit is the collector's item. This is a collector's item.

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Speaker 1: It's a world traveling Carbon Spider. We're getting real QBC

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Speaker 1: over here that he's been in the hands of Steve

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Speaker 1: and Ronella. Yeah right, good, Yeah, I'm good, we got it.

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Speaker 1: We gotta get a picture, oh with you with that bow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we got a lot of pictures. Feel we'll get We'll

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Speaker 1: get that all right, sounds dead, Ladies and gentlemen. Joe Ferronado,

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Speaker 1: he said it right, Thanks Joe, and thank you. That's awesome.

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Speaker 1: Now here comes strapping on Joe's still warm headset is

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Speaker 1: Spencer new heart. Okay, back in. We got a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuffing on top. But I gotta tell you about

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Speaker 1: something first. If you don't know all, that's fine, Okay.

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Speaker 1: What is more diagnostic on a turkey in terms of

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Speaker 1: age and all the time about is like Jake not Jake,

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Speaker 1: so a one year old or older than what am

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Speaker 1: I trying to say? Yeah? What is more diagnostic the

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Speaker 1: tail fan in the length of the feathers relative to

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Speaker 1: one another, or the spur. Well, we usually use the

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Speaker 1: tail fan just because we know when they do replacement

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Speaker 1: of those tail feathers. That's the most really, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's the one that everybody uses to determine between the

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Speaker 1: Jake and the adult Tom in terms of the tail fan.

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Speaker 1: And it's the easiest to see at a distance too.

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Speaker 1: I mean those those spurs and various you know, various

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Speaker 1: um types of turkeys have different spur link too, so

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Speaker 1: you've got to compare it to the other the other

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Speaker 1: birds here in terms of that. So, but I told

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Speaker 1: you that we shot a long beard. Okay, it's a

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Speaker 1: Miriams like a seven eight inch beard on it, full

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Speaker 1: tail fan, gobbling his space off. Who had one kind

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Speaker 1: of spur and then one no spur. And then I

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Speaker 1: says to my brother, Wow, that's where he goes. Not here,

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Speaker 1: it's not because I've seen I got another one just

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Speaker 1: like it. Yeah, did you ever hear of that? Well,

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Speaker 1: I've heard of it. Where you have anomalies like that,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting you get gene pool in certain

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Speaker 1: areas where you get some anomalies. Um last year I

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Speaker 1: was in um Oklahoma, I guess it was, and the

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Speaker 1: when the guy was hunting with it told me he

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Speaker 1: had seen a bearded hen. And he saw this bearded

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Speaker 1: hen that was actually um strutting. And then I wound

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Speaker 1: up going out that day and we had a bearded hen.

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Speaker 1: It was in full strut, beaten up on decoy for hours.

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Speaker 1: That's so you get some anomalies that get in the

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Speaker 1: gene pool where you know, you don't have spur development

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, and they persist. Now, obviously that bird

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Speaker 1: is not in a situation where they're needing their spurs

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Speaker 1: to fight an awful lot because that bird doesn't have them.

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Speaker 1: He's going to be at a hindrance. But I presume

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Speaker 1: it was an area where there wasn't probably a great

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Speaker 1: density of turkeys. No, it's like a little island ecosystem, yep,

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Speaker 1: So he could not literally an island, but but yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: an island of habitat where they're they're around. So he didn't.

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Speaker 1: He didn't. You don't even really appreciate how island eed.

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Speaker 1: This island habitat is nuttill you look at satellite imagery

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Speaker 1: and you're like, wow, these turkeys are just then they

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Speaker 1: had to satellite in there, they had to air drop

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Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, there's just they probably don't run into

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Speaker 1: turkeys that they haven't but they don't know. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: they have their pecking order already established. They know what

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Speaker 1: they That bird doesn't he have to fight all the

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Speaker 1: time to maintain position in the in the flock or

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Speaker 1: accepts it. That's the other thing. Um, I've heard that

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Speaker 1: spur length can be dictated by the landscape they live on.

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Speaker 1: So like a bird that lives on the mountains where

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Speaker 1: there's very rocky soil or like real gravelly substrate, their

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Speaker 1: spurs get worn down, so they're real short and nobody

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Speaker 1: where's like a bird down south in the marsh, nothing

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Speaker 1: wears on their spurs, so they grow longer and anything

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Speaker 1: to that. I'd tell people that all the time too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there could be I mean, there could be

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Speaker 1: differences like that. You see it between the various um,

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Speaker 1: you know, subspecies of birds that they have various links

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Speaker 1: of spurs, and down in Florida, those birds, those osciolas

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Speaker 1: are real limb hangers. They tend to have really nice

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Speaker 1: long spurs, and so that would go along with your theory.

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Speaker 1: But they're also pretty sandy soils down there, so which

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Speaker 1: is you know, if anybody has dog kind of knows

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Speaker 1: if you're in sandy soils, you tend to that wears

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Speaker 1: down anything like that in terms of nails or the

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Speaker 1: rest of it. So you know, you know, so you

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Speaker 1: think it might be more to do with the it

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Speaker 1: might be more to do with the bird. The bird,

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Speaker 1: the food that they're getting, you know that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the keratin development on that for the subspecies of it,

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Speaker 1: and then the age. Yeah. Man, I always tell people

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Speaker 1: that I'm like reason, he's not a big limb hanger,

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Speaker 1: as you say, can you explain what lim hangers? Lim hangers?

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Speaker 1: Birds will hang by his up in a limb by

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Speaker 1: his spurs because his spurs are so long? And uh,

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Speaker 1: how many how much do you I know you work

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Speaker 1: in turkeys? How much you actually hunt turkeys? Do you

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Speaker 1: get the hunt a fair bit? Are you just too

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Speaker 1: busy all the time? Some years I hunt more than others.

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Speaker 1: This is one of those years where I've done less, Honey.

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Speaker 1: I've only hunted South Carolina and now hunt a little

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Speaker 1: bit in Michigan while I'm up there. But other years

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Speaker 1: I try and get around. You know, we were really fortunate.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of great hunts. We have governor

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Speaker 1: hunt some lieutenant government hunts around the country, and try

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Speaker 1: and get out there with those folks, try and get

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Speaker 1: some of our mentored hunters in. I always try and

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Speaker 1: take out somebody hasn't hunted before. As one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I do each season because I mean that's

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Speaker 1: what you know. It gives you juice in this business.

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Speaker 1: And and it's as much fun as as taking a bird,

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Speaker 1: or even more fun taking your bird yourself. So some

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Speaker 1: more funky, So the right person, it's more fun. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it varies from year to year. Sometimes I schedule

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Speaker 1: myself for more hunts. This year I laid back on it.

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Speaker 1: I just moved, I'm heaving into a remodel project, and

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Speaker 1: we've got a lot of stuff going on at work.

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Speaker 1: So with all that, I didn't schedule myself for as

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Speaker 1: much hunt which gets me real itchy this time of

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Speaker 1: year because we're fast approaching. I mean the seasons have

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Speaker 1: ended in many of the southern state South Carolina where

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Speaker 1: the offices is closed now that season ended, Michigan still

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Speaker 1: going through the end of May, so I can capture

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Speaker 1: some of that layout for me. Um layoff from me,

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Speaker 1: just kind of give me the landscape of NWTF. You've

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Speaker 1: done it before, we just do it again, kind of

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Speaker 1: like mission statement, where you're at with membership all that

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Well, the National Wild Turkey Federation is, uh,

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Speaker 1: we're forty six going, I'm forty seven years old. It

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Speaker 1: was it was set up to restore the wild Turkey. UM.

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Speaker 1: Tom Rogers, the original founder of it, had a vision

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Speaker 1: that we could restore the wild turkey to North America,

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Speaker 1: and we're an organization that came together and did that.

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Speaker 1: In the early days, we really were a group that

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Speaker 1: did fundraising to help states UM with trapping efforts. We

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Speaker 1: taught the technology of a lot of the trapping to

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Speaker 1: the state agencies, and then we helped broker the deals

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Speaker 1: so you could trade wildlife between states, because you can

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Speaker 1: get yourself in trouble with the Lacey Act if you

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Speaker 1: put dollar figures on it, and that's why that happens. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I realize that that's why people did swaps. Yep, that's

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Speaker 1: because the Lacey Act. You know, when we passed a

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Speaker 1: Lacey Act in this country to prohibit interstate movement and

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Speaker 1: trade in birds or wildlife in particular, it was a

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Speaker 1: great thing. But state agencies then if they're trying to

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Speaker 1: swap out wild turkeys, those have they also have value

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Speaker 1: to the residents of that state, and so giving away

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Speaker 1: their precious wild birds usually they want to and then

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Speaker 1: they want to explain to their residents that we're getting

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Speaker 1: something in return for that so I mean we swapped

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Speaker 1: turkeys for otters, and turkeys for elk, and turkeys for

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Speaker 1: rough grouse, and there were all kinds of deals around

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Speaker 1: the country. The rough exchange right in your mind. I

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Speaker 1: don't even know now, you know, at one time, I

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Speaker 1: was it always seemed a little I mean, were people

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Speaker 1: real literal about value or was it kind of like

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Speaker 1: almost like a gesture. It was a gesture, But in

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Speaker 1: most situations, that's when a state really wanted to re

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Speaker 1: establish something else. So for instance, you know, when we

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Speaker 1: were getting turkeys, we were trapping rough grouse and in

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Speaker 1: parts of Michigan around grass at Saginaw, and we ran

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Speaker 1: grouse trapping operation all all summer long to try and

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Speaker 1: get those birds, to get to fulfill the requirements so

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Speaker 1: we could get birds turkeys back in that winter. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you were trapping grouse in order to swap them out

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Speaker 1: so we could get turkeys back. Who who was after grouse?

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Speaker 1: I think it was Iowa at that particular time that

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Speaker 1: we were getting our turkeys from, But I don't know

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Speaker 1: who they were swapping with in order to get the grouse.

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Speaker 1: So somebody in the Midwest. I do remember that state's

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Speaker 1: ever trade turkeys for turkeys, like one state wants Easterns

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Speaker 1: and the other state wants Miriam's. They have in the West,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not aware of situations where they swapped various

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Speaker 1: you know, subspecies between that, but I'm sure they probably

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Speaker 1: have where the menu's gotta be real interesting when you're

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Speaker 1: dealing with the state like Texas, Zebras, anything at it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you keep your you keep your exotics to yourself,

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Come on the draft man turies

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Speaker 1: for a draft. Yeah, but it was wild in terms

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Speaker 1: of some of the swaps that went on. But anyhow,

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Speaker 1: from there, the National Wild Turkey Federation is one of

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Speaker 1: those organizations that actually achieved it some mission. We worked

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Speaker 1: with the state agencies and restored wild turkeys to to

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Speaker 1: it's historic range and beyond. I mean, we have turkeys

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Speaker 1: and places that that really weren't historic at the time.

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Speaker 1: The you know, settlers, European settlers came over here and

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Speaker 1: that's we've got habitat forum and they're doing well in

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Speaker 1: some of those areas now and that's great and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of social enthusiasm for um. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to I was just gonna ask if you

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Speaker 1: ever got any pushback from that where people say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know they weren't here. Yeah, there's a far amount

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Speaker 1: of that in California. Umah, there were I mean, we

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Speaker 1: we wound up doing studies there. There were concerns with

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Speaker 1: the turkeys would um negatively impact the vineyards that they

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Speaker 1: weren't historic to that area. And you know, the question

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Speaker 1: is how far do you go back on at there

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Speaker 1: is historic evidence a wild turkeys and California and so

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Speaker 1: as birds expanded into those areas, and those were restored efforts,

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Speaker 1: and we were able to go in and show that turkeys,

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Speaker 1: you know at the time that they're feeding in vineyards

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Speaker 1: where you've got a lot of um, great maturity and

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Speaker 1: all the rest of it. They're really after more high

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Speaker 1: protein than they are. They might be incidental takers of

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Speaker 1: of grapes and the rest of it, but usually a

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Speaker 1: lot of damages coming from other species out there. You

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Speaker 1: got raccoons that are going out there and cleaning them

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Speaker 1: out and the rest of it. But the turkeys are

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Speaker 1: very visible because they're seeing more commonly during the daylight hours,

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Speaker 1: and people see them and they assume they're causing damage.

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Speaker 1: So I was reading about that same problem in Wisconsin

348
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Speaker 1: when they first started seeing lots of numbers and the

349
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Speaker 1: same thing. They're so visible he's seeing out on the fields,

350
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Speaker 1: and the farmers were like, they're gonna eat us at

351
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Speaker 1: a house at home, and they had to do a

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Speaker 1: big study to prove that, well, no, actually it's like

353
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Speaker 1: ten percent of their diet and they're usually just picking

354
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Speaker 1: up the scraps that you've left behind anyway, right, are

355
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Speaker 1: the insects. I mean, that's the other thing is beneficial

356
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 1: where they're out there feeding heavily on insects in those

357
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 1: in those fields. So the National Wild Turkey Federation really

358
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 1: around year two thousand UM had completed most of those

359
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Speaker 1: efforts to restore, and we moved into UM. We had

360
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:22,399
Speaker 1: Alreadys incorporated creating hunting heriage, maintaining the hunting herriage, and

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Speaker 1: really trying to create that next generation of hunters so

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Speaker 1: we can carry on the lifestyle and the appreciation of

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Speaker 1: hunting and the use of of hunted animals in our

364
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Speaker 1: food base. And then we added in habitat restoration because

365
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Speaker 1: at that point we're starting, you know, in parts of

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Speaker 1: this country we're seeing actual declines and turkey populations. Now

367
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Speaker 1: that they've been restored, they're starting to taper back off,

368
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Speaker 1: especially this southeastern United States, and you know what's going

369
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Speaker 1: on with that. We're seeing large landscape level changes. I mean,

370
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Speaker 1: we know we're losing a lot of mass crops in

371
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Speaker 1: the Midwest. Um hickory trees went by the wayside, American

372
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 1: chestnut has has gone and we've left it now. Oaks

373
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Speaker 1: are starting to diminish in that Midwestern landscape, and those

374
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 1: mass crops are practice in development well. And our forest

375
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: are turning over to those those oak forests that appeared

376
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Speaker 1: and grew up after logging and and um wood lot

377
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 1: development and large forest tracks now are turning over to

378
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: beach maple forests in many areas. And they don't have

379
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 1: they don't have a mass crop. They don't provide the

380
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Speaker 1: food that is readily available for a while of the

381
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Speaker 1: wildlife species that we all love, I mean, dear turkey

382
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Speaker 1: squirrel um are that hard mass is really really important

383
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: a lot of wildlife populations. What w did you say

384
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: that deer had to do when they were in a

385
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,359
Speaker 1: lab lollypine and they had to pack a lunch and

386
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 1: take it with them. And you've seen that in red

387
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 1: pine stands in Michigan. I mean those pine forest are

388
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 1: all needles on the floor. There isn't a forb that

389
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: grows underneath there. There's not good un light, and they

390
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: just there's not anything for them to eat. So it's um.

391
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: I think that's what's happening. I think there's I think

392
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: there's a whole range of things that are happening. To

393
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Speaker 1: be honest with you, I think that's heard that Missouri

394
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 1: had its worst turkey harvest than seventeen years. That could

395
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: be like that could be like a you know, that

396
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: could be weather too. It could be weather. It could

397
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 1: be what weather was last year for brood production. Last

398
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: year coming out of it had wicked They had a

399
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: wicked snow storm, I know. And usually your year after

400
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: really bad weather conditions, when you have you don't have

401
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: the kind of nest success that you'd really like. Is

402
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: where you really feel it the following year, so you

403
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: feel that there's real We had a piece about this

404
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: on the Meat eater dot com about turkey no you know,

405
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: turkey populations dropping in a lot of areas, and then

406
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: we got a lot of emails and people who are

407
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 1: really upset, like not in my woods. Yeah, I don't

408
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: know how to find them. Yeah. Yeah, A lot of

409
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 1: folks would be like, well, my bird feeder, there's like

410
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: three of them around that be more. Well, they are opportunists,

411
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about it. But you do feel that

412
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: there are like systemic There are some areas where, you know,

413
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: South Carolina is one of them, that they have really

414
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: been struggling. We are seeing a definite decline even though

415
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 1: hunter numbers are staying, are up, are actually increasing in

416
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: some cases, so interesting turkeys is increasing. Let me float

417
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: an idea by you. Okay, a body of mind put

418
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 1: this to me. He says, you know, what's really going

419
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: on with turkeys. He says, we're killing them too early.

420
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 1: I think in some cases we are. I think, you know,

421
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: he's not a irrational guy. He's like people who say, like,

422
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 1: get into mid May and they say the turkeys are

423
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: all gobbled out. Because they're not gobbled out, they're dead. Well,

424
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: when they shut up, I mean, that's the other thing.

425
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: Most of the studies that take a look at what's

426
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: happening to birds, they react to hunting pressure. It's like

427
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: predator pressure. We are predators out there. They move. We

428
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: did telemetry studies um here most recently, and it was

429
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,199
Speaker 1: fun to watch it on a screen. We showed it

430
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: for our board couple of years ago. But you'd see

431
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: a hunter walk into an area, you know, and and

432
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: that bird would walk in further to that area, and

433
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: the hunter would leave and that bird would walk back.

434
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: I mean, they are they avoid they know we're there.

435
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: Um they you know, even if you're a decent hunter,

436
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,239
Speaker 1: they know that you're coming into that and they shut up.

437
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: We don't see as much gobbling activity and the rest

438
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: of it, So it's a response just like other predators

439
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 1: would be where they'll shut up more. And we've all

440
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: seen that when birds, they'll do a gobble on the

441
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 1: roost and then they when they land on the ground,

442
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: they're done talking. They'll come in silent at that point. So, um,

443
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: you know it it it. I think that in some cases, though,

444
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of controversy right down in South

445
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: Carolina about what should be the right starting date. That

446
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,959
Speaker 1: that state is a state that has temperature changes and

447
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: climate change from the coastal area gets warmer sooner, they

448
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: want to start hunting sooner. But the peak gobbling activity

449
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: and the nest initiation is really about UM April ninth.

450
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: That's most of the studies are most recent studies shows

451
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: that the when nest initiation is is April ninth. Then

452
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: they go in there in South Carolina and South Carolina.

453
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: Now it varies in other parts of the contract. That

454
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: point she's dropped her that's right. And if you're hunting,

455
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: if you start your season before that time period, she's

456
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: still in breeding cycle at that point. That's you know,

457
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: that's just the peak. There's some that start earlier, there's

458
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: some that start late, but that's kind of the peak

459
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: that occurs with that population. So there's discussion down there

460
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: that they by they move their season to start in

461
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: the March, and you're probably disrupting those birds and not

462
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: getting all the birds bread and you're not getting as

463
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: much success on those nests because you are having that

464
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: disruption early during that breeding cycle. Goal. So states are

465
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: taking a look at that also. UM, it's been interesting

466
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: to take a look at what we're doing with hunting

467
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: seasons as we move forward, and we know that, UM,

468
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: the timing of the season is really important. The amount

469
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: of pressure on the birds is really important. And you

470
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: know what happens is people want to have lots of opportunity.

471
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 1: They want to have lots of days to hunt, and

472
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: they think that by cutting back bag limits they can

473
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: limit what the pressure is on that on that population.

474
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: But really, in almost all your wildlife populations, the length

475
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: of season the number of people that hunt are the

476
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: two factors that have the biggest impact on the population harvest.

477
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: In this article that Steve reference was called A New

478
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: Silent Spring Where the Turkey's Um. The author was David Hart,

479
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: and he touched on a number of different theories as

480
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: to where the turkeys have gone, why the population have

481
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: been falling the recent decade. One of the things that

482
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: he kind of suggested but then dismissed was yes, besides

483
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: that was disease, specifically West Nile UM. You kind of

484
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: brought up how states have thought that that's what's decimated

485
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: grouse populations. So maybe it's doing the same thing with turkeys,

486
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: but there's just not enough information available. What are your

487
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: thoughts on like West Niles and turkeys. Well, you know

488
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: a good friend of mine, John Fisher, and as ahead

489
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: of the weld or he was. He just retired as

490
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: head of the Wildlife Disease Cooperative at University of Georgia,

491
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: and John and I shared a lot of the health

492
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: committees for the Association Estate Agencies, and you know, everybody

493
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: wants to look to disease. They especially as places where

494
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: poultry farms, you know, spread manure from poultry houses and

495
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: all the rest of it. Is there an opportunity that

496
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: we're really spreading disease out there? And I'm not saying

497
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: that we can't or it won't happen, but um, and

498
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: you never want to have birds feeding over um situations

499
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: where they could be exposed to that where you have

500
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: dead birds. But with avian influence and stuff, we just

501
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: haven't seen the die off. I mean, we've done an

502
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: awful lot of surveillance the States have with avian um

503
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: influence and what their impacts. And we know there are

504
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: indicator species there are far more susceptible to that particular disease.

505
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: And when you're not seeing the indicator species go, we're

506
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: not seeing it with with the turkeys. Are you saying that, Um,

507
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: there are other species that are a better indicator of

508
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: West Nile. Yeah, crows and yeah Corvitt, Yeah, cart really

509
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: hard they and they're there are first ones when you

510
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: have that disease show up, when you start seeing crow

511
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 1: dios or raven dios, you've got a good indicator. You've

512
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: got avian influenza out there. Oh not West Now Avian influenza.

513
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. So they're susceptible. Yeah, and this

514
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: is because your body doesn't handle it well, because they're

515
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: more likely to get stung by mosquitoes. I don't know

516
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: the answer to that one. I don't know enough about it. So,

517
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: but in West Nile virus, the same thing. I mean,

518
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: these viruses have been going. We really expected with West

519
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: Nile um that we would and corvitts are really susceptible

520
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: West West Nile speci, these two. So that was where

521
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: we first indicated it. But um we really expected that

522
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: we would see major die offs as that started getting

523
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: in the in the populations, and and we did in places.

524
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: Um So, but we also look for high path avian influenza.

525
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: That's one of the ones that found in waterfall and

526
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: is really susceptible path high path, highly path energetic Aida

527
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: avian influenza. There's always low path, low pathogetic avian influenza that'

528
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: center waterfall populations. It's just endemic and we have it.

529
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: But when you get in the high path energetic that's

530
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: where you have it kills off major populations of it,

531
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: and that's a real concern. So and there's you know,

532
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: there's avian pox. There's a number of different diseases out there,

533
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: um avian it can be spread through populations. So it's

534
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: probably through touching close proximity. FEE sees that kind of stuff.

535
00:29:54,960 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: It's not an insect born. What are those theory? There

536
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: are theories is nothing's happened. Oh there's another theory, and

537
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: I don't understand it's one. I mean I understand, like

538
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: I get the concept, but I don't know how true

539
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: it is. That there's just a natural like when you

540
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: bring in it, when you reintroduce a species or introduce

541
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: a species. There's a thing where they don't call it,

542
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: like I know, founder effect is something entirely different. There's

543
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: some name for it, almost like a bloom. Yeah, and

544
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: then they go like and then exploiting some environment for

545
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: the first time. There example, food predators aren't tuned into

546
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: it yet and they have this like they bloom, Yeah,

547
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: they bloom. They do really well. And there's a time

548
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: leg before your predator species catch on to it. You know,

549
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: you wind up having the disease issues that come along

550
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: with it. The disease is part of this phenomenon. Yeah,

551
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: and then at that point in time, the population trails

552
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: off a little bit. And you see that historically in

553
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: some cases, and we see it with exotic species, non

554
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: native species that come in. I mean, all you gotta

555
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: do is look at things like the Great Lake where

556
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: you wind up having these zebra muscle populations that just

557
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: were tremendous blooms. They were over all the intake pipes

558
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: and all the rest of it, and and creates this,

559
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: you know, fills this unfilled niche out there. Or more

560
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: a greater concern is they replace native species because they're

561
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: more competitive in that environment because they don't have predators

562
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 1: or parasites that have adapted to them yet, and so

563
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: they have a competitive edge out there. So yeah, there's

564
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: some of that. I mean. The other theory is there's

565
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: there's been lots of discussion about fire on the landscape

566
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: um and and this is more a discussion in southeastern

567
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: United States with the large the Forest Service has really

568
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: worked to try and and be more active in their

569
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: management get those fuel loads down, especially in those pine

570
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: forests that are fire driven habitats, and we're used to

571
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: have a lot of lightning strikes and wildfires that would

572
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: move through and burn off the understory, the fuel load,

573
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: and and help promote the grass those ground of those needles,

574
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: that's right, would allow stuff to come up, that's right.

575
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: And you those habitats were originally savannah left to their

576
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: own where they're very open canopy, but you have trees

577
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: and and fire moved through it. And then in the

578
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: southern plains that's the pine savannahs you tend to get up.

579
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: In the midwestern you get the oak savannahs, the same

580
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: type of habitat, their fire driven habitats that had a

581
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: lot of fire that moved through them on a regular

582
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: basis before we got involved in the in the ecosystem

583
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: of living there, and then we suppressed that fire. And

584
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: what has happened then is you wind up having a

585
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: lot of woody vegetation. Turkeys don't like to have really

586
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: a lot of heavy cover that's woody right around them

587
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: because they can't see. They they feel um unprotected in that.

588
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: They much prefer to have good grass cover where they

589
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: have greater visibility, but yet they have good nest protection.

590
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: And then you wind up getting a lot more insect

591
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: damnage or insect not damage, but insect availability for protein,

592
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: food source and all the rest of us. When you

593
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: have that sunshine that comes down to the forest floor,

594
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: you think, yeah, I would imagine that fire could be

595
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: bad for insects, but habitat wise it makes up for

596
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: it makes up for it. Yeah, And there's you know,

597
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: the insects live on those landscapes. When you when you

598
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: um see those landscapes after their burn, quite often there's

599
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: um a very large ant colonies that go in conjunction

600
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: with it. Those sandy soils are very heavy mineral, there's

601
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: not a lot of top soil on them, and those

602
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: ants are really important for breaking down what vegetative material

603
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: are there and getting some organics and you know, um

604
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: placement back in place. It will burn those ant colonies

605
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: if you get too hot to fire. Normally it will

606
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: pass through it. But if you get a really hot

607
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: fire out and I've seen where it's will burn out

608
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: the ant colonies also. But it comes back. Now it's

609
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: not bad, it's it's it's part of what happens there.

610
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: So by putting that fire back on the landscape, we're

611
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: getting it overall back in better shape for turkeys because

612
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: it's getting that open grassy component to the savannah back

613
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 1: in place. But people see where birds might be nesting

614
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: and and the nest gets burned during that time period,

615
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: and they think we're losing lots of turkeys to those

616
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 1: large scale fires that are prescribed fires, when in fact,

617
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 1: a lot of times they go back into renest. Sometimes

618
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,919
Speaker 1: the nest is even harmed. I mean there you'll see

619
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: photographs of from researchers that they'll go back in. They'll

620
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,919
Speaker 1: take a photograph of the nest. You know, an egg

621
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: will even be singed, but the nest will hatch, the

622
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: hen picks up. It's the fire. Most true. She comes

623
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: back right afterwards. And if you are in those landscapes,

624
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: right after the burn, turkeys moved back in when it's

625
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: still all black. I saw you guys that a study

626
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, I saw you had turkeys to tracking

627
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: devices and looked at how they respond to fire, and

628
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: they respond very favorably. So short term losses long term

629
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: gain on that landscape. I can device look like on

630
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: a turkey. It's a little a little transmitter. It goes

631
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: on the back. There's two you can do it through

632
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: a radio signal or a little larger one will be

633
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: a satellite signal. So now we have the ability to

634
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: track them through satellite. And that's like embedded in the

635
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: turkey glue. Yeah, yeah, it's it goes right on the

636
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: back between the shoulders is where it goes. But yeah,

637
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: we we put it under the skin. Originally with some

638
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: of these devices, they used to have harnesses that fit

639
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: on them. Now we've gotten to the point where we

640
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: embed it right in there, and it's nice. You can

641
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: you can actually um embed it, but it actually you

642
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: can crazy glue it right on the on the skin,

643
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: pull some a few of the feathers out, crazy glue

644
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,959
Speaker 1: it right on the skin, and it's there. It stays there.

645
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: That area that I was in in Tennessee was kind

646
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: of has a lot of these components that we're talking about.

647
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 1: Where you know, we were on one side of the county.

648
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: There's birds everywhere on really some of the same property

649
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: about fifteen minutes away. Like, yeah, this used to be

650
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: exactly like the stuff that we were hunting where there

651
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: were tons of birds. In the last year, no birds,

652
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: and they had captured a handful of birds out on

653
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: um well all reads property out there and put those

654
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,479
Speaker 1: tracking devices on them to try to get a better

655
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: understanding what's happening. But went from hundreds of birds to

656
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: uh when we went out there, we saw saw one

657
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: lone tom out cruising around. But they think they moved

658
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: or died. He thinks they died. Yeah, And it's the

659
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: same deal out here in eastern Montana that I was

660
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: telling you about, like the you know, the person doing

661
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: the observation, the rancher. It's like the only thing I

662
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: can think of as a disease because there were so

663
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 1: many birds and then no birds. Well yeah, we've seen

664
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: that out here as well. Just they're just there and

665
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 1: it's like tons of them, and then all of sud

666
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: they're not there and it takes some years to come back. Well,

667
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: that's it. When you lose a population, when you get

668
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: down to a critical mass where you don't have a

669
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: good breeding population, when you lose a couple of production cycles,

670
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: it takes a long time for those birds to come

671
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 1: back in and fill it. But you know, sometimes these

672
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: landscape changes that happened, we don't even recognize them. Um,

673
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 1: give you a perfect example where I live in Michigan.

674
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: We had we have had turkeys for years. We hunted

675
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: our back hillside. It was a really nice oak mixed

676
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: hardwood stand with some really old oak mass trees that

677
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: are roost trees on it and stuff. And you know,

678
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: I I go out there every year, I've seen less turkeys.

679
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: There's more development in the area, more homes. I'm thinking,

680
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: it's just disturbance. My son comes home, who spent a

681
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: lot of time out back there, and he hadn't been

682
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 1: back in three years, and he said, you know, Becky,

683
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 1: we're losing our oak. This is moving over to beach

684
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: beach maple. And you know, it wasn't until Joel said

685
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: that to me that I started really looking around and thinking,

686
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: should have been on this property for thirty years. I

687
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: don't see the kind of maturity changes because every year

688
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: I'm out there during that time period, and and you

689
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: don't see that continual maturity and the changeover and how

690
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: some of the dominant trees are starting to die out

691
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: and become you know, sub dominant in that that forest stand.

692
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: So what's a solution for that? If you cut it?

693
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 1: Not everything I mean to go in into a shelter,

694
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: would cut and bring up some of those I should

695
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 1: cut out. Some of those big older oak trees are

696
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: starting to die out because they're starting to die and

697
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: there's some younger oaks and I need to release those

698
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: on the hillside. It's pretty steep hillside. It's not that

699
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: much acreage. It's hard to get in somebody to cut it.

700
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: We don't have a lot of small cutters anymore, um,

701
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, in a lot of these timber markets. So

702
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: it's really hard to get somebody in there to do it.

703
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: The chainsaw. I'm good with chainsaw, our buddy dog. He

704
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: manages a family farm. He works his ass off to

705
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: try to keep oaks. Yeah, it's yeah, because the thing

706
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: is too is like there's so many more deer now

707
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: where he is, and so they have the way they

708
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: like to feed and um, and he has he has

709
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: to do a lot of like active forestry management to

710
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: try to to to keep the you know, the sweet

711
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: the sweet of trees on the on his place that

712
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: he'd like to see because if he didn't, I can't

713
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: remember what one it is. If you just like let

714
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: it go, what do you want it with? Red maple?

715
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: Something he doesn't like a lot of. It's probably red maple.

716
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: It takes over in those upland hardwood stands, and so

717
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: if you just didn't do it, and you just had

718
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of deer there, no one did anything and

719
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: no one was doing any kind of select work with

720
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: a lot of maple on wouldn't support the doesn't support

721
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: doesn't support the amount of life. No, it doesn't. It

722
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: doesn't have the mass crop that you really need to

723
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: support the wildlife they really want there. I'll tell you

724
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 1: a start of you ought to do. Get your pencil out,

725
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 1: get your it's a lot because it's a good study.

726
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: I've seen this happened a couple of times. Now let's

727
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: we're talking about. I'm sure it happens in other states,

728
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: but you should go in. There's a this this state

729
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: here that we haven't be sitting in right now is

730
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: divided into seven regions. Okay. Over the years they've added

731
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: on which regions you're allowed to use and over the

732
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 1: counter turkey tag for so as the region is coming

733
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: into its own with turkey numbers. It's a draw. And

734
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: I have come in and hunted turkeys in areas where

735
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: it's a draw where you have to apply and win

736
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,919
Speaker 1: a lottery to get a turkey permit. That's a very

737
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: different kind of turkey hunting than when it's an over

738
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: the counter because people over the years, as they watched this,

739
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: they know where all the turkeys are, and the minute

740
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: you can just go, they go right. It would be

741
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: really interesting to um, there's one region left in this

742
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,959
Speaker 1: state that's still hard to draw a turkey tag. Presumably

743
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: it'll get to where they're going to open it up.

744
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: It'd be interesting to do a gobble study or something,

745
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: because here you have like a great scenario of a

746
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: turkey population and all of a sudden the floodgates get

747
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 1: opened and a lot more pressure on it, and watch

748
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: and try to put some numbers to how they respond

749
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: where they're spending their time, like how much they gobble,

750
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: where they like to hang out, how much are they

751
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: gonna how much does that that influx of hunting pressure

752
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: because it happens like overnight. You know, what, what is

753
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 1: what are they doing? What does that do? What's the

754
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: population responds to us? It's gotta be significant, man, Because

755
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 1: we just had a thing this year. We went to

756
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: a place that only a couple of years ago went

757
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: general and UM and had a couple of individuals say

758
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,479
Speaker 1: to us, like man in that place change because people

759
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: have been watching those turkeys for a decade. They knew

760
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: where they were. I spent a lot of years in

761
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: my life dealing with regulations, wildlife regulations on these very issues.

762
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's always a tough balance to try and

763
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: balance the opportunity of making sure that people can get

764
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: out there and hunt it and um understand the entry

765
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: system to get into it, because you got to think

766
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: ahead and apply, you know, and and meets that deadline,

767
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: which is well advanced to the turkey hunting season, versus

768
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: have an open entry and make it easy for people

769
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: to get in there. And states struggle with this concept

770
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: and try and balance those two so that we're not

771
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: unnecessarily restricting people. But on the other hand, we're not

772
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: unnecessarily over harvesting the population or putting too much pressure

773
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 1: on the population. I'm not even so much over harvest

774
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: as much as the kind of pressure that goes in

775
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: the behavioral changes that I talked about before. With that,

776
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,720
Speaker 1: in the Big Game world, we divide the whole world

777
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: into two things. You got your quality states and then

778
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: you got your opportunity states. That's exactly it. You're right,

779
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: we do. We do and and you know, it's tough

780
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: because you don't want people to um, you want them

781
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: to have opportunity to go in and take birds and

782
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,959
Speaker 1: and have that that place of hunting if they didn't

783
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: even apply for it. But on the other hand, you

784
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: don't want to diminish the quality. And some states have

785
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 1: fall seasons too. We talked a little bit about that

786
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: last night. What's your take on that, Well, fall season

787
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: tends to be a season to restrict the population, to

788
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: pull it back. I mean, it's that's what it's intended.

789
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: That's what it's intended. So you've got agricultural interests, you've

790
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 1: got the areas you know where the where you open

791
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: up those hunting seasons to fall hunting. Your your game

792
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: plan is to reduce the population, and why not reduce

793
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: it in the spring. That's what I thing I understand,

794
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: like why in the fall are you allowed to shoot hens?

795
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,439
Speaker 1: And states that have fall seasons like once she's killing.

796
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: If you want to kill hens, why why not killing

797
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: the spring? Well, the idea is that, um, your spring

798
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: season is a quality season that is not trying to

799
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: restrict the population. And so we started spring hunting and

800
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 1: have had spring hunting even as we restored populations. That

801
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: was one of the things that Turkey Federation really did

802
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: a good job on. They brought a lot of science

803
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 1: to the States so that you could introduce wild turkeys,

804
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: get that population expanding, and still hunt it in the

805
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: spring season because those birds are still those You're not

806
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 1: taking the hands. You're trying to time your season after

807
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: the birds have have have bread, and you're not disturbing

808
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: those nests too much in that regard, and you could

809
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: open up hunting early as you're restoring those populations, then

810
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: use your fall seasons to to reduce populations where you

811
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: have overabundance in that population. Who is it when you say, like, oh,

812
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: there's too many turkeys? Who is saying that? Usually who

813
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: says it are people that call in they have nuisance birds. Um.

814
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: Your your local biologists will have people that will call in.

815
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 1: And when I was a biologists, i would have this.

816
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: I'd have people that would say, you know, I've got

817
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: turkeys hanging around my property. They're roosting over the cars

818
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: at night. They're um, they're out in the fields causing

819
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: problems because they see them out in those particular fields.

820
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just the presence of turkeys they're not used

821
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: to it. They don't want to have turkeys around there.

822
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're habituating those turkeys. They've got bird feeders up

823
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: and supplemental feed out. Those birds are taking advantage of it.

824
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 1: It's an education process to get them to realize pulling

825
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: your feed or stop putting out throwing out your chicken

826
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: feed out in the yard and having the turkeys come

827
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: into it. Also, it's a behavioral change. And then sometimes

828
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: we do have too many birds in particular suburban settings,

829
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 1: and that's where it tends to get the most um

830
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: turkey to manage. Is where you you have this mix

831
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: of of nice field habitats, some small wood lots and

832
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: then a lot of homes in there, and you can

833
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,919
Speaker 1: support pretty good bird populations. And then you're not if

834
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: it's an area where people are it's privately owned and

835
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: they're not let people into hunt not getting much pressure.

836
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 1: You can have some islands of really pretty dense populations

837
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: and at that point you're gonna get someone who's like,

838
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: there's too many turkeys. Yeah, I don't want them to

839
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 1: get them out of here. A lot of depredation tags

840
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: in Idaho turkey depredation turkey depredation tags. And so if

841
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: you're a landowner and you say you want to have

842
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: some turkeys taken off your place in the depredation system,

843
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: then folks who apply for those tags, you can get

844
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: a phone call says, hey, this land owner has got

845
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of turkeys on there, here's the number, and

846
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: they have to provide access if they're part of that program.

847
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: And then you get dispatched out there to hunt turkeys. Yeah.

848
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: And a good good friend of mine got a call

849
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: last year for a region that is a difficult place

850
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: to Yeah, you have to draw a tag to go

851
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: over there and hunt birds, but he got a call

852
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: for depredation in over there. Guys like, yeah, he's like,

853
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: I got one standing on top of my car right now,

854
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: come kill him. I want to get into some legal

855
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: some stuff you guys do around lobbying and whatnot. Is

856
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: that a dirty word? Lobbying congressional? What do you guys

857
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: call it? What do you like to call it? Um,

858
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: we like to call it education and advocacy, Yeah, advocacine ed.

859
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: I want to talk to a little bit about that,

860
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: what that world's like. But I want to ask a

861
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: couple of things. First, what in your mind. What's a

862
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: very old male turkey and what's a very old female turkey?

863
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: You know, ten is an old bird in the wild. Now,

864
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: you see, domestic birds will get up, people keep them

865
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: their bar and they're older than that. But you know

866
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: you're a show called Cal's Weekend Review. Yes, tell her

867
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: about the bird. Tell her about the bird from the

868
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,439
Speaker 1: episode one of Cal's Weekend Review, real quick. I mean

869
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,479
Speaker 1: they will go older, there's no doubt. A turkey. Yeah,

870
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:06,240
Speaker 1: this is a lays An albatross. It's the oldest known,

871
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 1: oldest known bird. Yeah. Yeah, and she's sixty eight and

872
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: still rearing chicks or a chick a year. But it

873
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 1: was banded at roughly five years of age. Yeah, because

874
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 1: they don't start laying until they're about five. So pretty amazing,

875
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: is yeah. Yeah. And think how little time she's spent

876
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 1: on the ground. They think that she's covered how many

877
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: miles in her life? Yeah, because I mean they go

878
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: up in the air and they don't come down for

879
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: long periods of time. I think this is a very

880
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: conservative number when you look at all the other data

881
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 1: that's out there, But three million miles on this one bird. Yeah,

882
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: I think that it's interesting Stus Review more hot, and

883
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: so you think between there's no Tom that lives ten.

884
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: Tom's right, not in hunted populations X would be like

885
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: your mega. Oh yeah, I mean I'm talking about the

886
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: really unusual situation out there because you asked, what's the

887
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: oldest you know, that's that's probably not the oldest A

888
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: really old oh, a really old one. Yeah. If you

889
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 1: get a bird that's you know, five six years old,

890
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,439
Speaker 1: that's an old bird in the wild. That's I mean,

891
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,760
Speaker 1: especially if there's much in terms of um hunting pressure

892
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: on that particular bird. You know, you're you're lucky. If

893
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: you have very many three year old birds in the population.

894
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: Three and four year old birds, well, thosezards in Texas

895
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: that we got, how old do you think they were? Three?

896
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: We all, yeah, three to four. But scars. I don't

897
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: think they're hunting those birds real hard out there. Maybe no,

898
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: But I just think just disease or you know, bacterial

899
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: infections and stuff. Because we had a couple of birds

900
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,760
Speaker 1: with like real puncture holes in them and old scars

901
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: and staff each other. What's a rough life out there, Yeah,

902
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 1: it's a rough life. I heard somewhere that a poult

903
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: so a young turkey eats animal matter. They do eat

904
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: a lot of protein and an adult vegetable matter. Is

905
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: it that clean? I don't. I couldn't tell you that

906
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: if it's that clean. But you know, turkeys are omnivorous,

907
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: so they they they're opportunistic, um, and they're as they

908
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 1: are adults, they do eat a lot more vegetative material.

909
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: We know that those young birds, those pouls really used protein.

910
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 1: They grow really quickly, and so they need those high

911
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: energy sources and those high calorie sources to really put

912
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: on the kind of growth that they put on. Because

913
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 1: you know, when you look at a turkey, it doesn't

914
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: take them very long to get to the point where

915
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: they are feathered out and able to fly. So they

916
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: grow really quickly. Um. As young birds like protein. Yeah,

917
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: they go out and I mean those those hens take

918
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: them out and they just you know, snurf up whatever

919
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 1: insect life they can find out there. Yeah, the questions

920
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: you wanted to happen with, John, No, I want to

921
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 1: come back to the d C stuff we're about to

922
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,439
Speaker 1: get before we get into that, Like quick, hey, what's

923
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: up with type questions? So in South Dakota, a male

924
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: turkey tag allows you to shoot a turkey with a

925
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 1: visible beard or spurs. And in the Black Hills there's

926
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: a lot of bearded hands. I shouldn't say a lot,

927
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: but more than most places. I've ever seen a dozen.

928
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 1: Like in my years of hunting there in the spring,

929
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 1: I have twice shot bearded hands knowing that they were hands.

930
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: Does that make me a bad person? Steve can shoot

931
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: hands in spring, I would shoot a bearded hand. Why

932
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: is that different than a normal hand for you, it's

933
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: not because i'd be I'd be against it, begins the law.

934
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: So only because it's legally you're okay with it. Then

935
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: it's not like it complicated that if spring turkey season. Well,

936
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: here's what the I have, Like I have most states

937
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: forty or so states, I have a lot of uh

938
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: faith in the wildlife managers. Okay, states, I have a

939
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: lot of faith in the wildlife managers. Where I would

940
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: say if they were saying that, um, we're gonna open

941
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: it up for hens most states, I'd be like, they

942
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,720
Speaker 1: probably know what they're talking about. This is probably okay.

943
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: So if I knew that there was a hen, like

944
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: there's there's a part of this state we can shoot

945
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: hens in the spring. Yeah, three of them. So I'm like,

946
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 1: must be I'm gathering a lot of hens because there's

947
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: a lot of parts of the states where you can't

948
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 1: and there's some parts where you can't on turkeys. So

949
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 1: they're have an elastic model. And if in this little

950
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: corner over the area they've determined that they want to

951
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: kill some hens in the spring, I would have faith

952
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 1: that they were operating in the best interest of hunter.

953
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: So in those places, yes, the bearded hand. I don't

954
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: think that the American wild turkey is gonna live or

955
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: die or thrive or not thrive based on the occurrence

956
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: rate of hunters harvesting bearded hands, which are an anomaly.

957
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: So if you were to see one of these, I've

958
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: never had a bearded head in front of me with

959
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: a shotgun in my hand. If I were to see

960
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: one and get it, I don't think that that that's

961
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 1: gonna then mean that we're going to see this population

962
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: wide decline in turkey numbers. I always have a bit

963
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: of guilt because I feel like I'm gaming the system

964
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: all the time. Twice, that's not all the time, So

965
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: tell me, tell me yes, Because it's like the the

966
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 1: idea of the tag is for you to shoot a

967
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: male turkey. Yeah, that's the spirit of the law. And

968
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 1: I'm knowingly shooting a female turkey, which is legal to

969
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 1: get a turkey. I feel it's like if you found

970
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: a rain bow and there was like a little leprechn

971
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: and he stole his gold, it would be like, sure,

972
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: it never happens there I was. I took it. We

973
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 1: call it backy off, Tell me, I think it's an

974
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:18,320
Speaker 1: individual choice. I mean, you knew it was a weird hand. Okay,

975
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: that bird I had in front of me last year

976
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma. I knew she was a hen. She was

977
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: a legal target. I didn't take it. Why that? Why

978
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: did I do it? Because I couldn't believe her behavior.

979
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: I had never seen a hand to a full strut

980
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: like this and be that aggressive. But that doesn't account

981
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 1: for why you didn't shoot it. Well, so you saw

982
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: a regular turkey to a backflip. Yeah, that's true, but

983
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: it was you know, I knew it was an egg layer.

984
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: You know it was out there. I got more enjoyment

985
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: out of watching her that day then I did. And

986
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 1: naming her that day and her behavior and laughing about it,

987
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 1: we well we lame. We named her a pretty aggressive

988
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 1: female name, so she just wound up being she she

989
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: was scaring the tom off. I mean, she was a

990
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: really aggressive hen. So it was one of those situations

991
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: where I got more joy out of that with the

992
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: people I was hunting with than I did would have

993
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: by taking it and end in the scenario what she's saying, Spencer,

994
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: I'm reading between it. What she's saying is because she

995
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:22,399
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it because it's wrong. No, But I don't

996
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: think we should shame one another on this. I mean,

997
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 1: it was It's okay you you could easily change my

998
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: mind if you like said no, you shouldn't be doing that.

999
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: Well you obviously you feel that way, you wouldn't ask

1000
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: the question that you had some trepidation about it. But

1001
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: I don't think as hunters we should ever criticize another

1002
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 1: hunter for taking a legal target. I used to see

1003
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: this all the time in deer hunting, with people getting

1004
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,879
Speaker 1: into it and somebody during an antler's season would take

1005
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: a buck vawn and they couldn't tell it was a

1006
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: buck vawn. They didn't they just couldn't tell it from

1007
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: the head, you know, don't criticize him for doing it.

1008
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,919
Speaker 1: It was legal. It's it's ethical and the person didn't

1009
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: know it, so let's not chastise them for that. It's

1010
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: legal when you're asking that person to get on board

1011
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: with something that that there, you're asking them to get

1012
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 1: on board with some long term manage the plan that

1013
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: maybe they don't even they don't share that, they don't

1014
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 1: share the desire. That's right. They shot a perfectly legal

1015
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 1: target there. That was an animal that is going to

1016
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,959
Speaker 1: give them quality meat. They're gonna enjoy it. Don't ruin

1017
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 1: it for him. And the same thing I would say

1018
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,720
Speaker 1: with that, we take it into a fact that um

1019
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: on harvest when biology just make those recommendations, they know

1020
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: there's a certain percentage of bearded tom's it's so much

1021
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: or bearded hens. It's small enough it doesn't factor into

1022
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 1: a significant part of the population that's going to hurt

1023
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: the population. So it's perfectly legal. Go ahead and do it.

1024
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: And it's probably the cleanest indicator for someone who's starting

1025
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 1: off turkey hunting to determine whether it's a tom or

1026
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: a hand. Is that beard? You can pick it up

1027
00:56:56,719 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: and see it and and visualize it for folk start

1028
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: just getting started. They're not used to looking at all

1029
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: the heads and behavior cues and all the rest of it. Oh,

1030
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 1: it's one of the hardest things. I remember struggling. So

1031
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: for at least two or three years, I'd have turkey's

1032
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: coming in close for age and the world is just

1033
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, moving a million miles an hour,

1034
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: and it's spinning faster, and you're, you know, in your

1035
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: heart's beating between your ears with anticipation. Could just never

1036
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, that there's a time that's him right there.

1037
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: Hunting with the hunting with Maggie and Tracy. One was

1038
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 1: their first turkey hunt. She's like, well, how do I

1039
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: know that. I'm like, oh, you'll just know. I thought

1040
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,439
Speaker 1: I thought about, well, you know what to talk about this.

1041
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: I think we should touch on bag limits, because you know,

1042
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: the there's a difference between the face value of a

1043
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: bag limit and what the actual practical application of that

1044
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: bag limit is. Like there you can shoot four birds

1045
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: with no tags in Tennessee, but you can only kill

1046
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: one bird per day. That's right. So you know, bag

1047
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: limits have have their overall see season implications, but people

1048
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 1: need to realize that season length and the number of

1049
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: hunters are really the controlling force on it when you

1050
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,439
Speaker 1: put bag limits on. For instance, I'll just use South

1051
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: Carolina because it's been hotly debated in the legislature lately.

1052
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 1: They wanted to go from a few years ago, they

1053
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: moved their season, they provide a longer season. With that,

1054
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: they cut the bag limit from five to three. Well,

1055
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: it really didn't do a whole lot because there aren't

1056
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 1: very many people that were shooting five turkeys, and so

1057
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 1: you're only nipping back the population of hunters for a

1058
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: very small percentage of those folks that were successful enough

1059
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 1: every year to take five birds. And something that I

1060
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: think about also is that the bird per day rule,

1061
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: because it's definitely happened to me where if it were

1062
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: legal to fill those tags and when one morning you

1063
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: would do it, I would have had the opportunity. But

1064
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: because I gotta wait to the next day to then

1065
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: have a valid turkey tag, again, I had no opportunity.

1066
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: No opportunity, no opportunity. Sometimes the birds don't cooperate. Sometimes

1067
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,479
Speaker 1: you can't go out, You've got to actually go work

1068
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: for a living. You know, it could be that, you know,

1069
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: as a Sunday Monday, it could be the weather conditions

1070
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: are different. Um and those birds. Just about the time

1071
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: you think you've got them patterned and figured out, they

1072
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: prove you wrong every time. So you uh, I'm trying

1073
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: to I'm trying to track what you're saying, so you

1074
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: instinctively don't see a problem or do see a problem

1075
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: with the state saying like, oh, yeah, five turkeys, no problem.

1076
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: It depends on the state and whether their population is.

1077
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: But I do think a lot of times when you

1078
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: have um populations that when the biologists are setting up

1079
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 1: season recommendations, a lot of times in some states it's

1080
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: their legislature that sets the season's, not the agency itself.

1081
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: Its varies by state, but a lot of times what

1082
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 1: you'll see is UM legislators wanting to trade off days

1083
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 1: and then nip back the bag limit to comp and state. So, okays,

1084
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 1: that doesn't work that well, I mean, it just does.

1085
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: It's not a trade off. Your season length and the

1086
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: number of hunters are going to have a far greater

1087
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: impact on your harvest than what your bag limit is

1088
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 1: going to be. So I'm tracking what you're saying. Now, Okay,

1089
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 1: I got what you're saying now, So that's where they

1090
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: really need to listen to the biologists and realize that

1091
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: it isn't for you can't necessarily compensate for a super

1092
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: long season because you might be harvesting them before the

1093
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 1: birds are are really fully bred. You might be disrupting

1094
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 1: that breeding. And number two, having that really long season

1095
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: and a high hot hunting population. Even if you cut

1096
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: back that bag limit, there's such a small percentage of

1097
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: people that that can put it together take you know,

1098
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: five birds or whatever the maximum is, that you're really

1099
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: not having that much impact. I'm restricting that season at

1100
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: that point. So you could have the bag limit and

1101
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: double the season, and you're gonna have a lot more

1102
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: dead birds, you got it? Yeah, I mean, I just

1103
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 1: looking at fishing regulations this morning, and it's just it's

1104
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 1: really hard to put reality on those regulations. I'm like, oh, man,

1105
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: I really want to put a bunch of fish in

1106
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: the freezer. Oh great, here's a reservoir that I can

1107
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 1: put thirty croppy per day. Yeah. I'm never caught a

1108
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: croppy in my life. The odds to me putting thirty

1109
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: croppy in the boat are pretty bad, you know. But

1110
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: I look like if I'm about fifty a day and

1111
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 1: there's no closed season, I'm you know, thousands upon thousands

1112
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 1: of croppy you talked earlier. You mentioned with big game

1113
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 1: hunting you have the quality states and you have the

1114
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 1: opportunity states. Okay, that usually is reflective when you go

1115
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 1: back and look at how many people are a licensed

1116
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: hunter within that state. Usually it is tied to if

1117
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: you have a smaller hunting population or a smaller population

1118
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: in your state. For the population of an moles out

1119
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 1: there that you're hunting, you're gonna be able to support

1120
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 1: a quality regulations and seasons that will because you're not

1121
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: exploiting that population as greatly as you would with a

1122
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: population that has a lot more hunters, and and they

1123
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 1: go out there and they take a lot more animals.

1124
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: Michigan's perfect example. When I start my career, we had

1125
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 1: we had damn near a million licensed by your arm hunters.

1126
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: You don't grow old deer in that scenario. No, can

1127
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: I get in one more question before we move on. So,

1128
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 1: in some place like the Great Plains where you have

1129
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,919
Speaker 1: potential for all three species of turkeys, Rio's, Mariam's Easterns,

1130
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 1: is there any more species? It's part of the question.

1131
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: Is there any concern for hybridization? Like long term there

1132
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 1: is like having turkeys could potentially be a problem. Well,

1133
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: I won't say concerned, but does does hybridization happen? Absolutely? Right?

1134
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 1: But is there any cern about it happening? Or like

1135
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 1: places that are like in Nebraska or whatever, they're like

1136
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: you could kill Miriam's a rio on the eastern all

1137
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: all the same farm. It's like, come on, well, no,

1138
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 1: but that's not what he's getting at. If there's any

1139
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: like worry that that could negatively affect turkey populations, that

1140
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 1: that would be bad for right, Like if all of

1141
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 1: a sudden, white tails and mule deer were just hybridizing

1142
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 1: all the time, that'd be a bad deal. Those are

1143
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 1: two distinct species. I know what most people consider these

1144
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: like varieties. They're not even like legitimately subspecies. So yes

1145
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: and no, um, And I'll give you an example in

1146
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: the Waterfall front okay, um, I'll take it away. And

1147
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 1: when we had when we don't dealt with geese populations

1148
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: up on the tunder, we had these subspecies and we

1149
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: tried to manage it by subspecies in the flyway, so

1150
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 1: that you had James Bay birds and and Mississippi Valley birds,

1151
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: and we tried to keep you know, distinct populations. You

1152
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 1: mean Canada geese. Yeah, and it's in fact, when I

1153
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: thought we had twenty some kinds of Canada geese, that's right,

1154
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: and they're breeding up on the grounds. So we had

1155
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 1: the We did it geographically, and we tried to just

1156
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 1: harvest and maintain those separate populations of those geese within it.

1157
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 1: And everybody was concerned when one population started to decline.

1158
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 1: Well wound up happening. As we started to use DNA

1159
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: to to sample those populations, we realized there's a lot

1160
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 1: more in breeding going on there, and there's a lot

1161
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: more of the mutts, you know, that really had genetic pools,

1162
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: and it wasn't as clean geographically as we really thought.

1163
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: So taking into turkeys, yes, you want to keep variability

1164
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 1: in your population because the more variability you have, the

1165
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 1: more ability you have that population to adapt to changes.

1166
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 1: You know, they're going to have, just like diversity in

1167
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: any population, the more diversity you have in it, you're

1168
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: gonna have some survivors that stand a better chance. And

1169
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: if it's a really homogeneous population, so yeah, you want

1170
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: to maintain that, but there's always gonna be some interbreeding

1171
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: of those birds and with it comes different diversity with

1172
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 1: it also, So yes, we don't want them all to

1173
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 1: be crossbreds or highbreds between those populations. But on the

1174
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: other hand, you're always going to get some variability because

1175
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: of the range and where they're located. They're going to breed.

1176
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: What I'm getting at here, Spencer, there's no okay, take

1177
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: the Eastern turkey and the Osceola turkey. It's you we

1178
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 1: like draw some arbitrary line across the state, right, but

1179
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: they just bleed into one another, I understand. But the

1180
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: National Wild Turkey Foundation draws that line. Excuse me, federation

1181
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 1: draws that line in the record books. You guys define

1182
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 1: them as the different subspecies. We do, and well, you know,

1183
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 1: it's it's how people like to classify and go out

1184
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: and gather the different birds. But you know, don't forget

1185
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 1: there has been interbreeding a wildlife, I mean, and there's

1186
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 1: mixing of it over time. And sometimes we like to

1187
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:05,919
Speaker 1: look at a point of time and think it's clean

1188
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 1: and neat and tidy, and it's just not. It's messy.

1189
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 1: But when it comes to the different types of turkeys,

1190
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: Rio's Miriam's, Gould's easterns Osceolas, that's everybody, right, Uh, how

1191
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: like with current thinking and our understanding, a taxonomy changes

1192
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 1: all time with current thinking, like how legitimate are those

1193
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 1: designations and how is it not just that there's this

1194
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: thing it's the wild turkey, and there are slight color

1195
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: variations throughout the country. They're distinct enough that they're distinct

1196
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: um subspecies there um with it. But you're always going

1197
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 1: to have some of that interbreeding and part of it

1198
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 1: man is created too because we've moved these birds around

1199
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 1: um with that, so you've got populations where the habitat

1200
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 1: type might have looked like it was more attractive to

1201
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: various species, and we tried it. But we did that

1202
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: with other species around the country too. It's not just turkeys,

1203
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 1: you know. As we restored wildlife populations in this country,

1204
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: we moved wildlife. Heck, we moved it from Europe and

1205
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 1: Asia over here, and we put it out in landscapes

1206
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,919
Speaker 1: and when it did well, it you know, it did well.

1207
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 1: And so the same thing is true with these restoration efforts.

1208
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 1: A guy wanted to me the thing that made me

1209
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,920
Speaker 1: that keeps me like not fully understanding the subspecies thing

1210
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: or meaning half the time I feel like it's just

1211
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 1: there just different colors in different places, and half of

1212
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 1: time I'm like, okay, there's like a legitimate difference. Is

1213
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: a guy in Oregon was telling me when they were

1214
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: trying to get wild turkeys established in some areas of Oregon,

1215
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 1: they tried miriams and couldn't get them to stick and

1216
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 1: put reels in there and they took off. Now, they

1217
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 1: asked my well, what happened, and he had mentioned something

1218
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: about the I can't remember that one of them has

1219
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 1: like a higher likelihood of having a brood, just fit

1220
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: in that characteristic and was more successful. And he felt

1221
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: that it was the person outside who felt that it

1222
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 1: was that that was the thing where they took the

1223
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 1: birds from. And one couldn't figure it out, and one

1224
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 1: figured out and the other one figured it out. Yeah,

1225
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:13,120
Speaker 1: So I mean there are things genetically different. I mean,

1226
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 1: look at what we tried to do with turkey restorations.

1227
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: Before we really had the technology to trap live birds,

1228
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,600
Speaker 1: we tried to use these birds that were raised in

1229
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:26,680
Speaker 1: game firms, I mean Pennsylvania Michigan birds for populations, and

1230
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 1: several where we had turkeys back in the fifties came

1231
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 1: from game farm. So then they were bronze broad breasted turkeys,

1232
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: but they were not genetically bred for real good survival

1233
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 1: in a wild environment. And those populations got out there

1234
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 1: and they maintained, but they were always they never grew,

1235
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: they never did really well. And when we brought in

1236
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 1: live birds and released them in adjoining habitats, they took

1237
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: off and did really well. So there's genetic variability in

1238
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 1: these populations. And and with that sometimes it fits different

1239
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 1: climate situations, you know, micro climates with the habitat is

1240
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: there and the rest of it. All right, good, good,

1241
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: No more like basic turkey trivia. I got a thousand

1242
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 1: basic turkey. But most of my fail most of them,

1243
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 1: most of them are, most of them are unanswerable. Um,

1244
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,679
Speaker 1: we did have we did want to ask about the roost.

1245
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 1: Thing we didn't know about ruce was that in reference

1246
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 1: to that study that we were looking at. The study

1247
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: that really surprised me. It was on Southern Colorado. I

1248
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 1: believe so Miriam Turkey's Southern Colorado from back in the nineties,

1249
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, And it was like that

1250
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 1: that on average a turkey only had a thirteen like

1251
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 1: a turkey only had a thirteen percent chance that he

1252
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 1: would roost in the same tree two nights in a row,

1253
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 1: and on average would roost a thousand yards away for

1254
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: where he roosted the night before, and that the first

1255
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 1: number decreased during turkey season and the second number increased

1256
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 1: during turkey season, which would legs you to believe that

1257
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 1: they really responded to the fact that every day when

1258
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 1: they wake up, there's some guy down there trying to

1259
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 1: call him in and shoot him. He's like, man, tomorrow night,

1260
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: I'm roosting way far away from here. Yeah. You know,

1261
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 1: it probably depends on how many hens are in the

1262
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: area and all the rest of it. Um. You know,

1263
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 1: when you hunt the same property over and over again, um,

1264
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: it winds up being one of those situations where you

1265
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: learn that where there you think about roost and traditional

1266
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 1: roosts and stuff, where they'll they'll come in there and

1267
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:41,040
Speaker 1: roost one night, and then there won't be any birds

1268
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 1: there the next night, or they'll be half as many birds,

1269
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 1: and then the third night there's nobody there, and you

1270
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 1: wonder if it's you or whether those birds just move around.

1271
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 1: I personally think those birds move around and they they're

1272
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:57,880
Speaker 1: they're opportunists, so they you know, they make good use

1273
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 1: of their daylight hours. They you know, they're kind of

1274
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:02,760
Speaker 1: like we are. They get about get up about the

1275
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: same time. Even the days are getting longer, they get

1276
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 1: up about the same time every day. Um, they go out,

1277
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 1: they forage, their looking for hens, they're breeding, and then

1278
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:15,439
Speaker 1: when it gets starts to be getting close to sunset,

1279
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: they're looking for the place to go to bed. Now

1280
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 1: every few days are coming back in and and having

1281
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 1: kind of in the same vicinity if their if their

1282
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 1: habitats that way, I mean when you look at those

1283
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,799
Speaker 1: home ranges in terms of how far they stray and stuff,

1284
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 1: it's going to depend on the habitat quality. It's going

1285
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 1: to depend on how many hens are there in terms

1286
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 1: of how far he needs to roam and and how

1287
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 1: frequently he's coming back to the general vicinity. And then

1288
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 1: also with that forest type is going to be for

1289
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:47,639
Speaker 1: whether there are a lot of trees. I'm sure they're

1290
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 1: a river corridor. They're cotton woods down in the southwest

1291
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 1: where they get hit up and roosted pretty routinely because

1292
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 1: there just aren't that many roost trees. And there are

1293
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 1: other woodlots and places and forested habitats where there are

1294
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:05,439
Speaker 1: a lot of really significant roost trees that are gonna

1295
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: have good growth patterns that turkeys are comfortable on them.

1296
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 1: They're big enough, they're high enough that they're comfortable there

1297
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 1: that they're going to use. Um, they have lots of choices,

1298
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: so they're they're opportunistic, they're going to go out and

1299
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 1: not frequent the same particular roost tree. All that. Often,

1300
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 1: what's a long walk for for a male turkey in

1301
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 1: one day? Um, it depends on the habitat and where

1302
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 1: it is no turkeys around, you know, it varies from

1303
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 1: area to area across. With a particular study you're talking about,

1304
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 1: they were talking about a thousand meters was about the

1305
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 1: typical what they did. How far would he just in

1306
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 1: his travels throughout the day, how many miles would he

1307
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,679
Speaker 1: put on? Well, I mean at that point you're looking

1308
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 1: at most of those turkeys are it's fairly small those turkeys, UM,

1309
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 1: in that particular study you're looking at during the breeding season,

1310
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 1: they were anywhere from fourty to eighty when you when

1311
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 1: you factored out the hectors translate it back in, so

1312
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 1: those aren't big areas, like that's what he's spending his

1313
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:08,680
Speaker 1: day in that type of a little area. Yeah, I

1314
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:12,600
Speaker 1: mean it's a fair so it's really but that was

1315
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 1: probably an area that had some decent habitat and they

1316
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 1: had some hens around and the rest of it. In

1317
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 1: other areas, you know, you can see it. So you've

1318
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: got several sections that those birds are moving around. So

1319
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 1: they're moving several miles to get around in those areas

1320
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:30,760
Speaker 1: because there's not much cover um to get to roost

1321
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,600
Speaker 1: trees at night, they got to move further. So some

1322
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 1: of those really wide open landscapes, those birds are moving

1323
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 1: further on a daily basis. And then other places where

1324
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:43,639
Speaker 1: they're staying really tight in. They've got everything they need

1325
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 1: in pretty short areas, and there's competition if they move

1326
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 1: into their habitats. Man, them spending their whole day in

1327
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:52,600
Speaker 1: forty acres makes you think it's just good. I just

1328
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 1: sit down and those situations are too good. Little trails

1329
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 1: of roads come together, and just that's thing I always say,

1330
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:00,680
Speaker 1: like jerkey hunting, if you spend a few days on

1331
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 1: the property and you're looking at tracks, like, you know

1332
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:05,600
Speaker 1: what we could have done just said that, pick a

1333
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 1: spot at the intersection of two trails and say, you

1334
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 1: know what, you guys do your thing. I'm gonna spend

1335
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 1: my three days sitting right here. I'm not gonna do anything.

1336
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna make any noise. I'll be here at

1337
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 1: sun up and I'll wait till sundown, and you'd probably

1338
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,719
Speaker 1: be a very effective turkey hunter. Just abide your time,

1339
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 1: you know. And the other thing that I thought that

1340
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 1: turkey hunters need to remember is a lot of folks

1341
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 1: go out. They get out there real early in the morning,

1342
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 1: before the birds get off the roost. You know, they're

1343
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 1: going out way before daylight, and then they're coming in

1344
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 1: a couple hours after sunrise. You know, they're working for

1345
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 1: a couple of hours. And that's a great time to

1346
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 1: be out in the turkey woods. Yeah, you know, when

1347
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 1: it's eight, nine o'clock, ten o'clock in the morning, that's

1348
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:48,360
Speaker 1: the time where you want to sit tight and let

1349
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: all those other yahoo's in the vicinity go to work

1350
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 1: do what they're gonna do. But about their time, they're

1351
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:56,720
Speaker 1: going back and make their money. That's right, get their

1352
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,160
Speaker 1: cup of coffee, whatever they're going to do. You need

1353
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 1: to sit tight at that point because those birds move

1354
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 1: in a response to it. Okay, that's a hot turkey

1355
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 1: hunting tip from Becky Humphreys. Now, you guys spend a lot,

1356
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: like your organization spends time on government policy. We do

1357
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 1: what does that look like? Like, what do you go

1358
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 1: down there and you're like, we need more turkeys about

1359
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: the federal level, we don't do that because management and

1360
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 1: wild turkeys falls to the state authority. So we do that.

1361
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: You know, we we have through our chapter system, we

1362
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:30,559
Speaker 1: advocate when it comes to regulations, seasons, um, funding for research,

1363
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 1: those types of things. So you guys will go to

1364
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 1: a state and say, we feel that you're going about

1365
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:38,639
Speaker 1: this the wrong way. Yeah, most of the time we're

1366
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,760
Speaker 1: working with the agency along with it through helping to

1367
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 1: fund research to help move forward good science on it.

1368
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:47,840
Speaker 1: So we like to work hand hand in hand with

1369
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 1: that that state agency. We're partners with most of them.

1370
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:53,639
Speaker 1: And we actually have a technical committee that was formed

1371
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 1: before we even had biological staff with the Turkey Federation.

1372
01:15:57,520 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 1: That's made up of Turkey specialists for the state agencies

1373
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:04,439
Speaker 1: in our federal agencies, and we call that the Technical Committee.

1374
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:06,640
Speaker 1: They meet a number of times during the year and

1375
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 1: we share that that good scientific information. We try and

1376
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 1: come in and help them so that there UM we

1377
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 1: can support good management, and typically it's when an agency

1378
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 1: is getting pressured doing something UM legislatively that's going to

1379
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 1: be detrimental that population or restrict hunting too much. At

1380
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 1: the federal level, we try and we try and narrow

1381
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:30,519
Speaker 1: our focus so we can really be effective on the

1382
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 1: areas where we have good expertise. We really work on

1383
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:37,640
Speaker 1: UM forest management issues. So a lot of the the

1384
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 1: work that's been done to try and get more active

1385
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 1: forest management and try and correct this fire suppression funding

1386
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 1: problem we have in the country, we've been very active

1387
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 1: on that. I've gone fire suppression funding. You're not saying

1388
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 1: you want more money to suppress well, I'm saying the

1389
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: forest US Forest Service over the course of time, because

1390
01:16:55,479 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: we've had we've had we've not kept up with the

1391
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: growth cycles and we have more are more fuel loads

1392
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 1: building up in our national forests, not burning enough, not

1393
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 1: cutting enough. We've got older forests, so we're getting a

1394
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 1: build up on it, and with that, we're having these

1395
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 1: large wildfires that are occurring. And it's we've also come

1396
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:19,720
Speaker 1: off a period of UM unusually high rainfall. Now we're

1397
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 1: heading into a more drought type situation. And then you've

1398
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 1: got disease. I mean, we've got trees dying off, We've

1399
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: got some climatic changes going. But all that's culminating in

1400
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 1: these mega forest fires that we're seeing, and so we

1401
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:38,240
Speaker 1: have the Forest Service has has moved a lot, had

1402
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:42,120
Speaker 1: to move a lot of their funding to fight those

1403
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 1: forest fires and put in specialists and fire suppression to

1404
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:50,599
Speaker 1: try and combat and control those fires. And as a result,

1405
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:53,760
Speaker 1: they have less funding available to do the proactive management

1406
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,640
Speaker 1: to keep our forests healthy. So we've been working with

1407
01:17:56,800 --> 01:17:59,599
Speaker 1: Congress and trying to get the money in the right direction,

1408
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 1: money in the right direction, and also take away some

1409
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:04,920
Speaker 1: of the barriers that there are. Um, they're always going

1410
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:07,719
Speaker 1: to be people that don't like the idea of active

1411
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:10,720
Speaker 1: forest management. They want to leave it alone. But it

1412
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 1: has you know, we're not living in a situation anymore

1413
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 1: where we can just let it go and it's we're

1414
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:19,160
Speaker 1: gonna like the results of it. But you're not leaving

1415
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 1: me alone when we do fires, when we put out fires. No,

1416
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,680
Speaker 1: you're not leaving alone. You gotta you gotta make up

1417
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:27,360
Speaker 1: for you know, I mean, you've already like you've already

1418
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:30,800
Speaker 1: entered into sort of a false pretense on it, that's right.

1419
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we have as humans, we have taken away

1420
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:37,560
Speaker 1: a lot of these these fire driven habitats. We have

1421
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:41,120
Speaker 1: taken away the cycle of fire on it that occurred

1422
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 1: so regularly. It kept those fuel loads down low. It

1423
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 1: would burn the pine needles and the dead woody vegetation,

1424
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 1: so you didn't have it ladder up, you didn't have

1425
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:51,920
Speaker 1: it climb up those trees and crown and then just

1426
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:55,840
Speaker 1: go on these huge fires that burn everything down. And

1427
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:58,840
Speaker 1: when you have these really hot, extensive forest fires, it

1428
01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:01,680
Speaker 1: actually burns the top soil off the ground. And then

1429
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 1: the problem is afterwards you have rain and you have

1430
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:07,760
Speaker 1: you have the soil gets loose, so you have mud

1431
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 1: slides and tremendous you know, saltation in your streams and

1432
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:14,479
Speaker 1: your water course as a result of it. And it

1433
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:19,680
Speaker 1: takes it takes decades to restore those those landscapes to

1434
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 1: that um. You know, you can see areas um in

1435
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:25,720
Speaker 1: my home state of Michigan where I was, you can

1436
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:28,840
Speaker 1: see places where those forest fires after they cut down

1437
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:32,200
Speaker 1: the white pine forests in northern Michigan, they had fires

1438
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 1: that literally swept across the peninsula. And with that because

1439
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:39,960
Speaker 1: they had all that down vegetative material that had died off,

1440
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:43,479
Speaker 1: and it burned that top soil in places where we

1441
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:46,920
Speaker 1: are just now starting to see forest cover back come

1442
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:49,720
Speaker 1: back into it. It wasn't capable of growing anything but

1443
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:55,640
Speaker 1: liking for decades and decades and fire, Oh my god,

1444
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 1: it's a horrific story, man. Yeah, I mean some of

1445
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 1: these wells and getting live in their own wells and

1446
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:05,519
Speaker 1: crazy fires, well families getting wiped out, I mean, you know,

1447
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 1: in those dats, and so I mean it's it's we

1448
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:14,320
Speaker 1: have altered the landscape. So we've got to deal with

1449
01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 1: the fact that we don't at this point in time

1450
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:19,640
Speaker 1: on our on our forest, we're not keeping up with

1451
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:22,639
Speaker 1: the growth cycles, and we're getting these fuel build ups,

1452
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:25,439
Speaker 1: and we either have to become much more engaged and

1453
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:28,960
Speaker 1: actively manage those forests or we got to be willing

1454
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:32,600
Speaker 1: to suffer the consequences. And part of the consequences is

1455
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:35,719
Speaker 1: we have people actually building in some of those forests also,

1456
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:39,360
Speaker 1: so you've got homes, large homes, sometimes very expensive homes

1457
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 1: right within it. And there it takes resources to go

1458
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:45,160
Speaker 1: out and try and put in fire lines and protect

1459
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 1: those resources and get people evacuated and get them out

1460
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:51,680
Speaker 1: of those communities that are built right in fire prone landscapes,

1461
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:53,360
Speaker 1: and that sucks money out of doing the kind of

1462
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:56,200
Speaker 1: wildlife work. That's right, that's right. So I'd rather put

1463
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:59,679
Speaker 1: the money towards the proactive management and get our forests

1464
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:02,719
Speaker 1: so that they don't have these build up a fuel loads,

1465
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:05,560
Speaker 1: that we manage them more actively with prescribed fire and

1466
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:10,600
Speaker 1: cutting regime regimes. And then that we also need to

1467
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 1: think about some of these places, how much how much

1468
01:21:13,439 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 1: we're as a public going to invest in people that

1469
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:18,519
Speaker 1: want to build large homes and in holdings and some

1470
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:22,320
Speaker 1: of that problem. Look at the risk, right, risk your

1471
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:25,880
Speaker 1: fancy home in a spot that nobody built there for

1472
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 1: a reason. You put a lot of people at risk

1473
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:32,120
Speaker 1: when you ask some fire crew full eighteen year old

1474
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 1: kids go in there and try to say it. Yeah,

1475
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 1: it's and you know it's heartbreaking for people. Um you know,

1476
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:40,559
Speaker 1: you see whole communities wiped out. So anyhow, we've been

1477
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 1: working with Congress on that and and there are um

1478
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:47,640
Speaker 1: some folks that feel very strongly and we've used a

1479
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 1: lot of our laws that are on the books right

1480
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:53,280
Speaker 1: now that we're intended to give the public input into

1481
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 1: planning processes and and bring challenges against government when they

1482
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:03,080
Speaker 1: are unduly negatively impacted. But we've got groups and individuals

1483
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:06,639
Speaker 1: are using those laws to really slow down the active

1484
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:11,919
Speaker 1: management process outside public comment, yeah, or bringing lawsuits. Primarily

1485
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:15,639
Speaker 1: it's lawsuits, bringing lawsuits against the Forest Service in these

1486
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:19,640
Speaker 1: particular cases. And over time, then your processes get so expensive.

1487
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:23,879
Speaker 1: You're spending all your time and energy on the planning process,

1488
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 1: you're not ever getting to the management, and then you're

1489
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 1: having to pay even more because of the result of

1490
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:31,679
Speaker 1: lack of management, because they have this kind of like childish,

1491
01:22:31,720 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 1: sort of naive idea that the best thing for all

1492
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:36,719
Speaker 1: forests has let all even though you're not even talking

1493
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 1: about and most often the case, you're not talking about

1494
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:42,599
Speaker 1: native old growth stuff anyways, you're talking about disturbed egos.

1495
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:45,600
Speaker 1: They're already disturbed from the start, that's right, And so

1496
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 1: it's a philosophical difference. It's a very expensive way to

1497
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:53,640
Speaker 1: iron out that philosophical difference. Uh. To back up for

1498
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:56,280
Speaker 1: a second, you're talking about your you guys talk about

1499
01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:59,960
Speaker 1: state involvement, federal involvement. Don't name any names or please

1500
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:03,160
Speaker 1: eas but I doubt you'll want to. Uh. Do you

1501
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 1: encounter states that seem to be very receptive to your

1502
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:15,519
Speaker 1: professional input in states that kind of run a course

1503
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:17,680
Speaker 1: where you're like, that's not the way to do this,

1504
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 1: and they don't want to really listen, or do you

1505
01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:22,400
Speaker 1: or do you guys get pretty good buying from state

1506
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:25,639
Speaker 1: I have to say we have, UM, we have pretty

1507
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 1: good buy in from state wildlife agencies. We a couple

1508
01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 1: of things that you know, having run a state agency before. UM,

1509
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 1: we don't come in and try and lecture states how

1510
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:38,960
Speaker 1: they should do things, especially there are regional differences and

1511
01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:44,080
Speaker 1: cultural differences on how populations like to run their natural resources,

1512
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:46,800
Speaker 1: and we try and be respectful of that. We also

1513
01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 1: try and be proactive in helping the state agencies if

1514
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:52,599
Speaker 1: they have needs, if they have scientific needs, if they've

1515
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 1: got questions, if they want to learn from other states

1516
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:59,040
Speaker 1: on stuff of sharing that information behind in a safe

1517
01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:02,000
Speaker 1: environment that they can get hold of it and have

1518
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:05,880
Speaker 1: those conversations and really try it out and and and

1519
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:09,320
Speaker 1: know what they're getting into as they get into those

1520
01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 1: discussions before they come real public, because at that point

1521
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 1: in time, you're you know, it's tough to be wrong

1522
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:19,719
Speaker 1: on things once you've gone out publicly and or whatever

1523
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:22,839
Speaker 1: that's right, So we try and take a proactive approach

1524
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:25,640
Speaker 1: on that. UM. You know, there are other issues we

1525
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:29,200
Speaker 1: work on a national level. We try and maintain making

1526
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:31,760
Speaker 1: sure that there's really good access to our public lands

1527
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:36,640
Speaker 1: out there, making sure that regulations that unnecessarily hamper the

1528
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:39,439
Speaker 1: ability to go out and hunt those those lands are

1529
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:43,639
Speaker 1: we're not putting those in place. UM, try and get

1530
01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:46,920
Speaker 1: the make sure that the federal agencies are respective of

1531
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:50,360
Speaker 1: UM people that want to go out and use firearms

1532
01:24:50,439 --> 01:24:53,479
Speaker 1: and those lands and hunt those lands, fish those lands,

1533
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:57,320
Speaker 1: hike those lands. Involved in that stuff. Yeah, we take

1534
01:24:57,360 --> 01:24:59,120
Speaker 1: a very active role in it because that's one of

1535
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:02,519
Speaker 1: the criticisms I have of the conservation space in generals.

1536
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:04,960
Speaker 1: I feel like you have, you know, a lot of

1537
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 1: groups who focus very heavily on hunting rights, and you

1538
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 1: have groups that focus heavy on habitat and wildlife. I

1539
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 1: feel like in a lot of cases, I think that

1540
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 1: those two things should be melded together a little bit

1541
01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:19,479
Speaker 1: better too, as a holistic package. It's why I'm at

1542
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:21,920
Speaker 1: the Turkey Federation. And to be honest with you, when

1543
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 1: I looked and I worked with a lot of different

1544
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 1: conservation groups out there, and there's a lot of really

1545
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 1: good ones. But I agree with you. I think it

1546
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:33,000
Speaker 1: takes both habitat management and it takes people using that landscape,

1547
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 1: carrying about it, and being those future conservationists to really

1548
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 1: get the full picture. We can't pull people out of

1549
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:43,880
Speaker 1: the equation. You just can't. We're part of the ecosystem,

1550
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,760
Speaker 1: We're part of the influence on that landscape. And um

1551
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:51,400
Speaker 1: I want there always to be segments and a big

1552
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 1: chunk of our population that really understands what's going on

1553
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:59,280
Speaker 1: in those landscapes and advocates for wise management and also

1554
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:03,240
Speaker 1: realize that our wildlife are renewable resources. We don't have

1555
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:07,160
Speaker 1: to I mean, most of these populations, they have high

1556
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 1: turnover and and hunting can be compensatory. It replaces other

1557
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 1: types of mortality out there. And I just as soon

1558
01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:18,639
Speaker 1: have people use that that food source it's out there

1559
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:21,840
Speaker 1: and have it us and value it as a way

1560
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:24,600
Speaker 1: to get part of their protein and what they like

1561
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:28,520
Speaker 1: to enjoy and be connected to that landscape and understand

1562
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:34,120
Speaker 1: it on the federal level, like in d C. What

1563
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 1: are some of the what are some of the changes

1564
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 1: you've seen going on in d C. Do you do

1565
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:44,639
Speaker 1: you find that people is it like, Uh, you're enjoying. UM,

1566
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:48,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people who sort of instinctively understand the

1567
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:51,519
Speaker 1: concerns you have. Is that landscape changing a little bit?

1568
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:55,879
Speaker 1: Is it harder to explain your mission? Um? It depends.

1569
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 1: I see there's glimmer as of hope. I mean we

1570
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:01,720
Speaker 1: have in the House. We have UM Congressman Westerman, who

1571
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:04,760
Speaker 1: is a forester and he's really been the lead on

1572
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:08,040
Speaker 1: a lot of this forest initiative. So it's been helpful

1573
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 1: to be able to work with him and his staff

1574
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,640
Speaker 1: because he's a trained forester, or he gets it and

1575
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:16,040
Speaker 1: he's willing to work with leadership and and and move forward.

1576
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 1: Good regulations, UM, good changes that are going to think

1577
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 1: help move us forward. There isn't necessarily I will say, Washington,

1578
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 1: d C. Since I've been working in it, it's got

1579
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 1: more contentious, more polarized. It's tough with some of the

1580
01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:34,840
Speaker 1: big issues our country is facing right now, a lot

1581
01:27:34,920 --> 01:27:38,400
Speaker 1: of the issues on conservation and some of the challenges

1582
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 1: we have. Do you wind up getting positions and polarization

1583
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 1: where people are talking, Um, they're not talking about ways

1584
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:49,920
Speaker 1: that they can work together to achieve getting there, but

1585
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:54,040
Speaker 1: they're taking positions and whenever that happens, where it's all

1586
01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 1: or nothing or we don't this is off the table,

1587
01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:59,840
Speaker 1: we can't even talk about it. That doesn't lead us

1588
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:03,760
Speaker 1: on the path of really great decision making. But it

1589
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:06,840
Speaker 1: takes people sitting around the table, and by it has

1590
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:09,840
Speaker 1: to come about with bipartisan support. It has to be

1591
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:13,240
Speaker 1: by Camber. Can't be just a Senate, can't be just

1592
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:15,120
Speaker 1: a house. It has to be both in order to

1593
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:19,640
Speaker 1: get it into law. So it's it's tough, and we

1594
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:22,720
Speaker 1: have people, more and more people in Congress who have

1595
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 1: not I mean, we're as a population in general, and

1596
01:28:26,360 --> 01:28:30,800
Speaker 1: Congress represents that population. We are now several generations off

1597
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 1: the farm and ranch. By and large, fewer and fewer

1598
01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:36,519
Speaker 1: people are living in those rural environments, living off the land,

1599
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:40,840
Speaker 1: and so their direct knowledge and understanding of those landscapes

1600
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 1: is impacted by that. Yeah, I always tell people, it's

1601
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:49,080
Speaker 1: really easy to understand how detached these folks are from

1602
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,840
Speaker 1: some of these outdoor situations. All you gotta do is

1603
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:56,479
Speaker 1: go walk around the tunnels in d C. Or at

1604
01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:58,800
Speaker 1: those those folks working on the hill don't even get

1605
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:01,720
Speaker 1: to go outside. Yeah, it's and you know, and you

1606
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 1: can't blame them. It's not that they don't want to know,

1607
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:07,080
Speaker 1: they just don't know. So some of the most effective

1608
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:10,000
Speaker 1: things you can do sometimes they're getting getting people out

1609
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 1: to see stuff in the field, to actually do tours

1610
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:16,160
Speaker 1: of active management, to see that, so that they're not

1611
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:18,680
Speaker 1: hearing it from people that saying, oh my gosh, this

1612
01:29:18,760 --> 01:29:21,920
Speaker 1: timber cut was just devastating. Look at looks terrible. Go

1613
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:25,599
Speaker 1: out and look at a forest that was hasn't been thin,

1614
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:27,880
Speaker 1: look at one that has been thin, look at one

1615
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:31,519
Speaker 1: that that see an area that's been burned over, and

1616
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:34,240
Speaker 1: see some of the degradation that occurs from that forest

1617
01:29:34,360 --> 01:29:38,360
Speaker 1: fire as opposed to a timber cut um and and

1618
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:41,559
Speaker 1: have that real life knowledge so that when they're talking

1619
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:44,400
Speaker 1: about these issues they can visualize that it makes more

1620
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:48,639
Speaker 1: sense to them. Yeah, I think that you're also asking

1621
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:50,439
Speaker 1: I mean, you're kind of asking a lot of people

1622
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:55,240
Speaker 1: to understand all the complexities and nuance that are involved

1623
01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:59,200
Speaker 1: in landscape management where there's not a lot of hard

1624
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:02,840
Speaker 1: and fast rule to live by. I think that, you know,

1625
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:08,800
Speaker 1: we have a cabin up in Southeast Alaska and they're, um,

1626
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:11,760
Speaker 1: there's a very legitimate argument, and I and I feel

1627
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:15,559
Speaker 1: this way personally where um, I think we're cutting too

1628
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:19,599
Speaker 1: much old growth timber. So but that's a very different

1629
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 1: thing where you're talking about these coastal like coastal rainforest

1630
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:28,360
Speaker 1: areas that have five and six hundred year old trees

1631
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:32,960
Speaker 1: that you're not gonna like. It's not that you're not

1632
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:35,200
Speaker 1: gonna go back that. So it's like, how could I say, oh,

1633
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:38,520
Speaker 1: I don't want them, I want to slow down, Curtail.

1634
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:42,040
Speaker 1: I'd love to see the end of old girls timber

1635
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:46,680
Speaker 1: harvest on public lands in southeast Alaska. But how can

1636
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:50,840
Speaker 1: I then turn around and say in northern Michigan, Um,

1637
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:54,400
Speaker 1: we need to be catton Because people are like, well,

1638
01:30:54,439 --> 01:30:56,000
Speaker 1: how could both those things be true? And it's like,

1639
01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:58,519
Speaker 1: because it's just we live. It's a complicated planet. It

1640
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:02,720
Speaker 1: is complicated, and it gets to accessibility, It gets to

1641
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:06,639
Speaker 1: what those those species are, It gets to how quickly

1642
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:10,920
Speaker 1: it regenerates, what those soil types are, and what's already happened,

1643
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:13,400
Speaker 1: and there is you know, And that's the thing that

1644
01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:17,880
Speaker 1: we talk in generalities when we it, we try and

1645
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:22,000
Speaker 1: simplify the system for discussion sake, and in that simplification

1646
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:24,240
Speaker 1: you lose some of the nuance with I think it

1647
01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:29,200
Speaker 1: became logging is bad. People love absolutes, right, It's like, well,

1648
01:31:29,280 --> 01:31:32,720
Speaker 1: tell me what the problem is, loggat it? What's next?

1649
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:35,960
Speaker 1: And isn't that as a biologist, You're like, well, actually,

1650
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:38,080
Speaker 1: there's a myriad of problems. I'm like, well, I don't

1651
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:41,759
Speaker 1: have a time for that. Yeah, that anti logging campaign

1652
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 1: you know that we all grew up with. It must

1653
01:31:44,160 --> 01:31:46,880
Speaker 1: have been like the eighties. I'm guessing right, that must

1654
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:49,200
Speaker 1: have been when the spotted owl. It's the spotted owl

1655
01:31:50,840 --> 01:31:53,519
Speaker 1: late eighties, early nine, early nineties and think the way.

1656
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:55,599
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it took me a while into

1657
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:58,960
Speaker 1: adulthood to sort of have my own personal you know,

1658
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:03,200
Speaker 1: enlightenment about logging to be like, oh, yeah, it's not

1659
01:32:03,439 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 1: always bad, because that was just pounded into my head

1660
01:32:06,280 --> 01:32:09,080
Speaker 1: through whatever channels. My parents never told me that logging

1661
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:12,680
Speaker 1: was bad, but the marketing of that, you know, you

1662
01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:15,000
Speaker 1: got into my head. Well. And I mean Smoke of

1663
01:32:15,040 --> 01:32:19,440
Speaker 1: the Bears another one of those campaigns that's been highly successful,

1664
01:32:19,960 --> 01:32:22,360
Speaker 1: to the point where people don't like prescribe fire that

1665
01:32:22,479 --> 01:32:30,320
Speaker 1: much because they have fire is bad. She wouldn't do that.

1666
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 1: It seems like a straightforward fellow. He's like a straight

1667
01:32:33,120 --> 01:32:40,160
Speaker 1: shooter old smoky. Okay, you had mentioned that you wanted

1668
01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:45,800
Speaker 1: to discuss personal goals for mentoring a new hunter. Well,

1669
01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:48,639
Speaker 1: I think we should all have personal goals, so I'll

1670
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:50,200
Speaker 1: look at all you don't want to tell us about

1671
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:53,600
Speaker 1: your personal goals. So, uh well, I mean, we have

1672
01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:56,640
Speaker 1: a new pledge going on with our corporate sponsors right now,

1673
01:32:56,760 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 1: trying to get every one of our members to make

1674
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:01,880
Speaker 1: a personal commit method. They at least mentor one new

1675
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:05,600
Speaker 1: hunter every year, and so, and you know, we we

1676
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:07,800
Speaker 1: asked him to sign a pledge form. We asked him

1677
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:10,760
Speaker 1: to report back on that pledge form with us. You're

1678
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:16,160
Speaker 1: already good, all right, Spencer? Not this year yet? Last

1679
01:33:16,240 --> 01:33:20,320
Speaker 1: year yet? Yeah? I don't know about last year either.

1680
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 1: How about the year before? Yes? Good? Possibly last year

1681
01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:26,439
Speaker 1: definitely the year before, Yes, And that wasn't just because

1682
01:33:26,439 --> 01:33:29,680
Speaker 1: you met your wife or something. Now and taking an

1683
01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:32,960
Speaker 1: old college room mate the first time, that's good stuff.

1684
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:35,960
Speaker 1: I'd like to I'd like to brag that last year

1685
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:38,760
Speaker 1: I did it as well. My neighbor took him out

1686
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:42,479
Speaker 1: hunting first time. Yeah, tearing it up on the pledge.

1687
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:46,439
Speaker 1: We need to give him a retroactive pledge. There you go, well,

1688
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:50,040
Speaker 1: it's an actual sheet. It's an actual sheet. We asked

1689
01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:53,040
Speaker 1: him to sign it, um write their name down on it.

1690
01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 1: We kicked it off at our annual convention this year,

1691
01:33:56,960 --> 01:33:59,680
Speaker 1: and we are trying to get every one of our

1692
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:03,200
Speaker 1: members to do that because that's what's gonna take. I mean,

1693
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:06,759
Speaker 1: when you look at the demographics of hunters in this country,

1694
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:10,240
Speaker 1: we're going to see a pretty start start decline with

1695
01:34:10,360 --> 01:34:12,880
Speaker 1: the baby boomers as they start to age out of hunting.

1696
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:16,360
Speaker 1: And if we don't start getting other folks to replace that.

1697
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:19,360
Speaker 1: And everybody loves to do the kids programs, and we're

1698
01:34:19,400 --> 01:34:22,400
Speaker 1: one of them. We have a really robust Jake's program.

1699
01:34:22,479 --> 01:34:25,200
Speaker 1: We've done it for years. You love it. But those

1700
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:27,240
Speaker 1: kids aren't going to grow up fast enough to replace

1701
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:29,880
Speaker 1: the baby boomers. We've got to get those adult hunters

1702
01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:33,120
Speaker 1: out there. We've got to get the twentiesomthing's that either

1703
01:34:33,200 --> 01:34:35,760
Speaker 1: weren't exposed to it or or didn't do it enough

1704
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:38,320
Speaker 1: to make it part of their lifestyle. We've got to

1705
01:34:38,360 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 1: get them to feel welcome and that's something that they

1706
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:43,080
Speaker 1: want to do and enjoy the lifestyle and and think

1707
01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:46,320
Speaker 1: of themselves as hunters. There's gonna be somebody listening, probably

1708
01:34:46,360 --> 01:34:48,960
Speaker 1: more than probably ten percent. Maybe I don't know. A

1709
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 1: bunch of people listening, they're gonna say that ain't true.

1710
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:56,120
Speaker 1: We're not losing any hunters. Show me one person that

1711
01:34:56,240 --> 01:34:59,439
Speaker 1: can say there's less hunters where I hunt now than

1712
01:34:59,479 --> 01:35:02,479
Speaker 1: there was ten years ago, which is a really good

1713
01:35:02,800 --> 01:35:05,640
Speaker 1: interesting point. You can't. You can't flip it about it.

1714
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:08,880
Speaker 1: You can't. You can't at all. It's like, oh, yeah, right,

1715
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:10,840
Speaker 1: hunt used be guys everywhere. Now I go there and

1716
01:35:10,920 --> 01:35:13,639
Speaker 1: no one's around. It's just Turkey's gobblin every which way.

1717
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 1: I did want to run it into one guy in Colorado.

1718
01:35:17,400 --> 01:35:19,519
Speaker 1: It's been a few years now, this is maybe five

1719
01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:23,360
Speaker 1: seven years ago, but he did say that he noticed

1720
01:35:23,400 --> 01:35:26,439
Speaker 1: it because they hunted very dense forest and he felt

1721
01:35:26,479 --> 01:35:29,080
Speaker 1: like there was there's less camps along this road, this

1722
01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:31,680
Speaker 1: forest Vist road everybody used to camp and then he

1723
01:35:31,800 --> 01:35:34,240
Speaker 1: felt like a lot of success was due to more

1724
01:35:34,400 --> 01:35:37,559
Speaker 1: guys in the woods back in the day, moving more

1725
01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:40,960
Speaker 1: animals around, and now they didn't have that, there was

1726
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:43,800
Speaker 1: less success, and he did complain about having less people

1727
01:35:43,960 --> 01:35:46,960
Speaker 1: out there. But that's interesting. That being said, I wonder

1728
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:50,120
Speaker 1: sometimes if it's not a Western thing right, we hunt

1729
01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:53,639
Speaker 1: big western open vast landscapes. We can see a lot

1730
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:56,439
Speaker 1: more so we see more people. Well, plus more people

1731
01:35:56,479 --> 01:35:59,320
Speaker 1: are people that the people that are are hunting are

1732
01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:05,479
Speaker 1: more inclined. There's a greater likelihood that they are hunting

1733
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:09,960
Speaker 1: multiple states and traveling around. That's that's true too. Like use,

1734
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:11,639
Speaker 1: habits change, and then you have a lot of states

1735
01:36:11,680 --> 01:36:14,560
Speaker 1: that aren't seeing declines you have, you know, then you

1736
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:17,639
Speaker 1: go to these states, so you know, you say, it's

1737
01:36:17,640 --> 01:36:21,120
Speaker 1: like Michigan, Pennsylvania and you're seeing declines that you're not

1738
01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:25,560
Speaker 1: experiencing whelming. That's true. There's changing, I mean, and it

1739
01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:28,439
Speaker 1: has changed over time, but overall the licensed number of

1740
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:32,360
Speaker 1: licensed hunters as a whole is declining through the federal surveys.

1741
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:34,639
Speaker 1: Do you find it more like maybe where you guys

1742
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:38,000
Speaker 1: are at in the southeast, Um, yeah, I think the

1743
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:40,599
Speaker 1: Eastern United States is seeing it faster than the Western

1744
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:44,880
Speaker 1: United States. Um. And and it varies by state. Some

1745
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:47,240
Speaker 1: states are seeing nice. You know, part of it is

1746
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 1: populations of those states also, you know, I happen to

1747
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:53,120
Speaker 1: be from a state. In terms of Michigan that we

1748
01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 1: lost overall population, we lost almost two million people during

1749
01:36:57,040 --> 01:37:00,479
Speaker 1: the ecademic downturn. What really, Yeah, so the one from

1750
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:04,000
Speaker 1: ten years ago, Michigan came out of that with fewer citizens.

1751
01:37:04,120 --> 01:37:07,720
Speaker 1: It did a lot of fewer and so as a

1752
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:10,439
Speaker 1: result of that, you lost hunters as part of that. Also,

1753
01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:16,639
Speaker 1: so where they go sun Belt all all over, they're like, dude,

1754
01:37:16,640 --> 01:37:18,360
Speaker 1: we're in the rust belt, this place called the sun Belt,

1755
01:37:20,040 --> 01:37:23,080
Speaker 1: and you have other states that are seeing population gains

1756
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:26,880
Speaker 1: and with that, um changing demographics in those particular states,

1757
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:30,679
Speaker 1: and and sometimes um with it, you're seeing increasing hunters

1758
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:34,920
Speaker 1: and sometimes you're seeing a decrease in hunters. So it's

1759
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:37,880
Speaker 1: you know, it changes around the country. But overall, the

1760
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:40,160
Speaker 1: total number of hunters and the age of hunters is

1761
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:43,200
Speaker 1: getting older every single year, which means you've got no

1762
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:47,400
Speaker 1: bottom of the population of hunters coming into the scenario.

1763
01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:49,639
Speaker 1: Go on with your point, you're gonna make a point

1764
01:37:51,200 --> 01:37:53,200
Speaker 1: of the people are gonna, well, no, that was it.

1765
01:37:53,439 --> 01:37:55,439
Speaker 1: They're just gonna say, how can that? How can that be?

1766
01:37:55,720 --> 01:37:59,000
Speaker 1: I though, you're gonna extend that to what, like the

1767
01:37:59,080 --> 01:38:03,040
Speaker 1: perspective of why in the world. No, I mean, we've

1768
01:38:03,120 --> 01:38:06,360
Speaker 1: explored why in the world would you ever even suggest

1769
01:38:06,479 --> 01:38:10,439
Speaker 1: a desire to have more hunters like that? Makes no sense, right,

1770
01:38:10,640 --> 01:38:14,120
Speaker 1: Why would you want more people out screwing up your hunt,

1771
01:38:14,680 --> 01:38:20,280
Speaker 1: which is also legitimate thing to say, Oh yeah, we're

1772
01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:22,960
Speaker 1: our own worst enemy when it comes to that, Yeah

1773
01:38:23,040 --> 01:38:26,800
Speaker 1: we don't. I mean, we're all guilty of it. Not

1774
01:38:26,920 --> 01:38:30,320
Speaker 1: in my spot, you don't, especially coming out of from

1775
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:34,000
Speaker 1: a turkey hunter. Turkey huntings where you gets shot well,

1776
01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 1: and we've all been there where you're out, you go out,

1777
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:39,639
Speaker 1: you set up that morning, you've got that perfect place,

1778
01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:45,840
Speaker 1: and then there's somebody else calling. You're like, darn, yeah,

1779
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:49,240
Speaker 1: we hunted some public Animasouri last spring, Mienani did. And

1780
01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:51,600
Speaker 1: when you heard a gobble, instead of like wanting a

1781
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:54,720
Speaker 1: gobble gobbler to keep gobbling, you heard a gobble, and

1782
01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:56,880
Speaker 1: you're like, please shut up, please shut up, please shut up,

1783
01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:00,679
Speaker 1: no matter what. Pretty soon it's like your car door

1784
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:08,320
Speaker 1: on some ridge and then like the races on. Let's right, so,

1785
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:11,840
Speaker 1: but it is I mean, if we've got a window

1786
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:14,720
Speaker 1: of time here that is pretty short that we've got

1787
01:39:14,840 --> 01:39:17,400
Speaker 1: to replace those baby boomers, which are the biggest bubble

1788
01:39:17,479 --> 01:39:20,080
Speaker 1: of licensed hunters in the country right now, to participate

1789
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:23,439
Speaker 1: their parents. Hunting participation was so high for their parents,

1790
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:26,280
Speaker 1: that's right. So as much as it hurts, go out

1791
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:29,760
Speaker 1: and mentor somebody that's right, and don't pick else. Don't

1792
01:39:29,800 --> 01:39:35,639
Speaker 1: pick anybody that's less than twenty years of age. I think.

1793
01:39:36,040 --> 01:39:39,080
Speaker 1: I think that is a point that shouldn't be glossed over.

1794
01:39:39,240 --> 01:39:42,000
Speaker 1: Is is there is no set age for a first

1795
01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:45,400
Speaker 1: time hunter. No, there's not. And you know, it's the

1796
01:39:45,479 --> 01:39:47,439
Speaker 1: cool part of it is you can take people out

1797
01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:51,040
Speaker 1: that might have hunted their entire life, who have wanted

1798
01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:54,240
Speaker 1: to go hunting, or maybe they don't even recognize they

1799
01:39:54,240 --> 01:39:56,679
Speaker 1: wanted to go hunting, but they go out and enjoy

1800
01:39:56,760 --> 01:39:59,160
Speaker 1: it and it opens up a whole new world for him.

1801
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:01,800
Speaker 1: But you know, the other part of it is stick

1802
01:40:01,880 --> 01:40:05,640
Speaker 1: with them. It takes more than one hunting experience. You know,

1803
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:08,080
Speaker 1: it's intimidating to try and figure out what kind of

1804
01:40:08,120 --> 01:40:11,640
Speaker 1: equipment you need and how it's fun to go out

1805
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:14,719
Speaker 1: with somebody who's all done all the research and scoping

1806
01:40:14,800 --> 01:40:17,000
Speaker 1: and loans your their equipment, takes you out there and

1807
01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:20,560
Speaker 1: and calls in a bird or whatever you're hunting species is,

1808
01:40:21,120 --> 01:40:22,519
Speaker 1: and you get a chance to go out and be

1809
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:25,000
Speaker 1: part of it. It's another to then go out and

1810
01:40:25,080 --> 01:40:27,280
Speaker 1: be self sufficient, so you gotta stick with them to

1811
01:40:27,360 --> 01:40:30,160
Speaker 1: be there, that mentor that tells them, Okay, you want

1812
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:32,600
Speaker 1: to go out and get a firearm, here's here are

1813
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:34,640
Speaker 1: some recommendations. I'll go with you if you want to

1814
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 1: go talk to the person at the at the gun store,

1815
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:41,879
Speaker 1: or here's here's what I recommend for some basic equipment.

1816
01:40:42,160 --> 01:40:45,160
Speaker 1: Or you know, here's so and so that also hunts.

1817
01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:47,000
Speaker 1: Maybe you want to link up with them, because I'm

1818
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:49,439
Speaker 1: gonna be gone next month, but maybe you'd like to

1819
01:40:49,479 --> 01:40:51,960
Speaker 1: go hunt with them, because we know it takes social

1820
01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:55,200
Speaker 1: that social network. You guys have it because you you

1821
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:58,240
Speaker 1: live it every day. But for other folks, as we

1822
01:40:58,439 --> 01:41:01,559
Speaker 1: become more mobile as a popular nation, trying to link

1823
01:41:01,640 --> 01:41:04,560
Speaker 1: up with other people in our communities who share that

1824
01:41:04,640 --> 01:41:09,040
Speaker 1: same lifestyle, it's we're not we don't join clubs anymore.

1825
01:41:09,080 --> 01:41:11,960
Speaker 1: We don't join conservation clubs and some of that stuff.

1826
01:41:12,040 --> 01:41:13,920
Speaker 1: So and and I, you know, I hope they do.

1827
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:16,839
Speaker 1: I hope I'll give a plug for National Wild Turkey Federation.

1828
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:21,519
Speaker 1: You know, if you moved to a new community, or

1829
01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:23,280
Speaker 1: if you're just are part of a community and you

1830
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:25,400
Speaker 1: want to meet people that hunter and can introduce you

1831
01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:28,599
Speaker 1: to it, go join the local chapter of the Nationale

1832
01:41:28,640 --> 01:41:31,719
Speaker 1: Turkey Federation. That's the hot tip I've been giving people

1833
01:41:31,720 --> 01:41:34,160
Speaker 1: all because we we when we do live shows. We here,

1834
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:37,160
Speaker 1: we talked to a bunch of people and um, it's like,

1835
01:41:37,200 --> 01:41:39,040
Speaker 1: all right, what's the best tip for getting involved? Like

1836
01:41:39,080 --> 01:41:41,960
Speaker 1: a hunted two years and haven't seen anything yet, And

1837
01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:44,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, I didn't do this because everyone's different, Like

1838
01:41:44,680 --> 01:41:47,080
Speaker 1: I just grew up like very immersed in it. I

1839
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:49,320
Speaker 1: was like, what I would do now that I realize

1840
01:41:49,320 --> 01:41:53,080
Speaker 1: how things work is I would get involved volunteering with

1841
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:57,280
Speaker 1: the conservation group in your area. Because you're gonna get

1842
01:41:57,320 --> 01:41:58,880
Speaker 1: in there and start doing stuff and people are gonna

1843
01:41:58,920 --> 01:42:01,280
Speaker 1: be feel sorry for you. They're gonna make You're gonna

1844
01:42:01,320 --> 01:42:05,559
Speaker 1: make friends and and get involved in activities through social

1845
01:42:05,680 --> 01:42:08,880
Speaker 1: interactions and through organized events. That's the other part of it.

1846
01:42:08,920 --> 01:42:11,080
Speaker 1: And you get those people a little drunk and you'd

1847
01:42:11,120 --> 01:42:14,400
Speaker 1: be like and pretty soon they'll say something like, I

1848
01:42:14,520 --> 01:42:16,960
Speaker 1: haven't been in there myself, but I have a good

1849
01:42:17,120 --> 01:42:19,840
Speaker 1: feeling that if you tried that spot those kind of

1850
01:42:19,880 --> 01:42:24,960
Speaker 1: conversations and fella might that's the sentence you're looking for. Well,

1851
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:27,000
Speaker 1: on the other part of this helps motivate you to

1852
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:30,120
Speaker 1: get out there, you know, when you're you're socializing talking

1853
01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:32,960
Speaker 1: about it, somebody has you over for you know, for

1854
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:35,880
Speaker 1: venice and dinner afterwards, you're you're more inclined as you

1855
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:38,760
Speaker 1: get immersed in the lifestyle to remember how much you

1856
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:42,240
Speaker 1: enjoy it and make that effort to get out doing

1857
01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:43,880
Speaker 1: some rough math in my head, I feel like you

1858
01:42:44,160 --> 01:42:46,680
Speaker 1: need to have them mentor could you say in one

1859
01:42:46,720 --> 01:42:49,720
Speaker 1: person every year at least one, Yeah, because I think

1860
01:42:49,800 --> 01:42:54,240
Speaker 1: that it takes about four to have one stick. Just

1861
01:42:54,400 --> 01:42:58,320
Speaker 1: looking at my own set of experiences, You're probably right. Everyone.

1862
01:42:58,560 --> 01:43:00,840
Speaker 1: I've never had someone be like I wish I hadn't

1863
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:03,120
Speaker 1: done that. There are always liked it was really like,

1864
01:43:03,560 --> 01:43:06,559
Speaker 1: very informative and really kind of change my perspective on things.

1865
01:43:06,640 --> 01:43:08,400
Speaker 1: Glad I did it. But that doesn't mean that they're

1866
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:11,920
Speaker 1: going to then start, you know, go off on their

1867
01:43:11,920 --> 01:43:14,519
Speaker 1: own and starts. We've been you know, one of the

1868
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:16,760
Speaker 1: things that we've been doing on these we've tried to

1869
01:43:16,800 --> 01:43:19,720
Speaker 1: move away from one and done um events that's what

1870
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:21,559
Speaker 1: we call them. Where you come in, you take them

1871
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:23,560
Speaker 1: out for a hunt, and then you're done. That's it.

1872
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:27,280
Speaker 1: Where we try and work with other conservation organizations, so

1873
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:30,800
Speaker 1: we we teach them the life skills. They learn how

1874
01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:34,439
Speaker 1: to hunt safely, get hunter safety, move through, go out

1875
01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:38,000
Speaker 1: on a hunt, try several different hunts. What we ideally

1876
01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:40,240
Speaker 1: would like to do is move people through that system

1877
01:43:40,320 --> 01:43:43,640
Speaker 1: so then they can become mentors to other folks. But

1878
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:47,280
Speaker 1: it takes having them have exposure and meeting different people

1879
01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:50,960
Speaker 1: and having those different experiences multiple times to really start

1880
01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:54,280
Speaker 1: thinking themselves as hunters and getting the confidence to go

1881
01:43:54,400 --> 01:43:58,040
Speaker 1: out on their own or take somebody else out who

1882
01:43:58,160 --> 01:44:03,080
Speaker 1: hasn't hunted before. So you can't let those assumptions lie either.

1883
01:44:03,479 --> 01:44:06,559
Speaker 1: Like if you are successful to the point of having

1884
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:09,559
Speaker 1: a bird or a buck on the ground, you can't

1885
01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:12,880
Speaker 1: just be like, cool, well take that to the processor.

1886
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:17,120
Speaker 1: You're successful. Good job. Show him what to do with

1887
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:19,040
Speaker 1: the meat too, I think he is a big deal,

1888
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:21,760
Speaker 1: Like you gotta and then check their freeze or make

1889
01:44:21,800 --> 01:44:24,680
Speaker 1: sure they're using it. If not, yell at him, yes, exactly,

1890
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:35,680
Speaker 1: humiliate them in front of their freaks. Well, and humiliate him.

1891
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:40,160
Speaker 1: Got got final thoughts about a wedge in there, kel,

1892
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:45,599
Speaker 1: I know I've been wearing a hat and a briar patch. Well,

1893
01:44:45,720 --> 01:44:48,080
Speaker 1: you know he had a tiny little head and only

1894
01:44:48,120 --> 01:44:50,160
Speaker 1: certain hats fit me, so I gotta stick with him

1895
01:44:50,200 --> 01:44:51,880
Speaker 1: while I got good. When you get one of the works,

1896
01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:55,960
Speaker 1: you stay and you stand by it. Yeah. Yeah, no man,

1897
01:44:56,040 --> 01:44:57,680
Speaker 1: I think we covered a lot of a lot of

1898
01:44:57,760 --> 01:45:00,479
Speaker 1: good stuff. And thanks for coming out and my pleasure,

1899
01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:03,799
Speaker 1: love love hearing all the good info. What's a lifetime

1900
01:45:03,840 --> 01:45:08,240
Speaker 1: membership cost? At the Old Turkey Federation, lifetime membership you

1901
01:45:08,360 --> 01:45:12,280
Speaker 1: can an annual membership is thirty five dollars, sponsorship is

1902
01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:15,040
Speaker 1: to fifty and then we stack memberships so you can

1903
01:45:15,200 --> 01:45:19,559
Speaker 1: continue to be lifetime memberships. Um, not a one lump

1904
01:45:19,680 --> 01:45:22,320
Speaker 1: some lifetime membership thing. No, I mean you can do that,

1905
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:24,760
Speaker 1: but typically what we do is we like to get

1906
01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:29,479
Speaker 1: people back every single year and continue with someone buying

1907
01:45:29,520 --> 01:45:32,519
Speaker 1: and once then going that's right, because we want to

1908
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:35,080
Speaker 1: have we want you to be active with us. I

1909
01:45:35,120 --> 01:45:38,280
Speaker 1: mean that's one of the things with National Wild Turkey Federation.

1910
01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:41,040
Speaker 1: We have so we have a pretty high percentage of

1911
01:45:41,080 --> 01:45:43,519
Speaker 1: folks that not only are members but are volunteers. So

1912
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:47,080
Speaker 1: they come in, they put in and learn to hunt workshops,

1913
01:45:47,160 --> 01:45:48,760
Speaker 1: they go out there and do the Women in the

1914
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 1: Outdoors events, they do the Jake's events, they do the

1915
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:54,240
Speaker 1: Willins events, they go out and do habitat work or

1916
01:45:54,320 --> 01:45:58,320
Speaker 1: they work at the capitol in their respective states and so,

1917
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:01,760
Speaker 1: and that is what's special about it because those people

1918
01:46:02,120 --> 01:46:05,280
Speaker 1: are really engaged in Yeah, I can't just like cut

1919
01:46:05,320 --> 01:46:06,800
Speaker 1: a check and then go vanish for the rest of

1920
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:10,960
Speaker 1: my well, you can, but really rather have you come

1921
01:46:11,040 --> 01:46:15,840
Speaker 1: back and be more invested. The strangest thing you've heard of?

1922
01:46:15,920 --> 01:46:22,000
Speaker 1: A turkey eat the strangest thing, because they mean they

1923
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:25,800
Speaker 1: eat anything, They eat just about anything. It's the strangest

1924
01:46:26,560 --> 01:46:29,040
Speaker 1: or contender. I don't know that I can think of

1925
01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:31,519
Speaker 1: something that's really strange. What have you seen that on

1926
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:34,439
Speaker 1: the lookout for that? Well, in Colonel Tom Kelly's a

1927
01:46:34,479 --> 01:46:36,839
Speaker 1: tenth Legion, he talks about watching them out eating crayfish

1928
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:40,120
Speaker 1: from underwater. That's interesting, Oh that is that's true. That's true.

1929
01:46:40,120 --> 01:46:41,800
Speaker 1: I've heard a number of people bring that up. I've

1930
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:44,479
Speaker 1: seen deer eat fish. Now that's pretty weird. Waiting and

1931
01:46:44,600 --> 01:46:48,400
Speaker 1: eating ale wives the footage of a deer eating baby

1932
01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:51,280
Speaker 1: birds out of a nest, which really changes how you

1933
01:46:51,320 --> 01:46:53,920
Speaker 1: feel about deer. That's true. I mean watching a watching

1934
01:46:53,920 --> 01:46:58,240
Speaker 1: a turkey swallow a snake is whether interesting. After the snakes, Yeah,

1935
01:46:58,320 --> 01:47:02,240
Speaker 1: they get really excited they do. Yeah, I've seen footage

1936
01:47:02,240 --> 01:47:04,120
Speaker 1: of that where a turkey standing out the field beating

1937
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:07,120
Speaker 1: a snake to death, whipping it back and forth, trying

1938
01:47:07,160 --> 01:47:09,519
Speaker 1: to kill it and eventually gets it, yeah, and then

1939
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:13,640
Speaker 1: gulping it down. Concluders, you know, you should you know

1940
01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:16,360
Speaker 1: what your concluders should be. You should have a concluder

1941
01:47:16,479 --> 01:47:20,640
Speaker 1: question where you say, what's the strangest way you've ever

1942
01:47:20,720 --> 01:47:24,760
Speaker 1: heard of a turkey dying? Unless you got something else.

1943
01:47:25,240 --> 01:47:29,519
Speaker 1: I got something else. You can take that one. But no,

1944
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:31,680
Speaker 1: I'm always just so impressed. Man. We have a lot

1945
01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:36,439
Speaker 1: of guests on this show, and uh, Becky, you rarely

1946
01:47:36,520 --> 01:47:38,360
Speaker 1: say I don't know. Today I think you said I

1947
01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:45,160
Speaker 1: don't know to one of these questions, like oh yeah,

1948
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:48,160
Speaker 1: what happens there. It's just very like I don't know.

1949
01:47:50,120 --> 01:47:53,240
Speaker 1: She's been Yeah. I'm just always so impressed because now

1950
01:47:53,400 --> 01:47:56,160
Speaker 1: knowing your background, because last time, the last podcast, I

1951
01:47:56,160 --> 01:47:57,640
Speaker 1: wish I knew the number off the top of my head.

1952
01:47:57,680 --> 01:47:59,320
Speaker 1: You should listen to that one too. But we really

1953
01:47:59,400 --> 01:48:02,479
Speaker 1: got your wory of you know, how you came career

1954
01:48:02,560 --> 01:48:05,560
Speaker 1: path and all your experiences and then it just it

1955
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:09,519
Speaker 1: just so thoroughly comes out when we're chit chatting because like, yeah,

1956
01:48:09,680 --> 01:48:13,200
Speaker 1: the fact I've been around in the mill a couple

1957
01:48:13,200 --> 01:48:17,519
Speaker 1: of times, but that before finish your point a little

1958
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:20,800
Speaker 1: more solid, beaus I might have misunderstood it. No, my

1959
01:48:20,880 --> 01:48:23,519
Speaker 1: own point is just that I'm impressed. Man, Like I said,

1960
01:48:23,600 --> 01:48:28,439
Speaker 1: she has the humility. You're saying that you appreciate that

1961
01:48:28,520 --> 01:48:30,960
Speaker 1: she has the humility to say I don't know, or

1962
01:48:31,040 --> 01:48:33,759
Speaker 1: that she rarely doesn't know. I didn't say that about

1963
01:48:33,840 --> 01:48:39,599
Speaker 1: the humility. That's a great um uh characteristic of people.

1964
01:48:39,880 --> 01:48:42,120
Speaker 1: I like to think that I can say that often too.

1965
01:48:42,360 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 1: I say it often, you know that I don't know,

1966
01:48:44,439 --> 01:48:47,040
Speaker 1: But she doesn't say it often, which is so impressive,

1967
01:48:47,080 --> 01:48:49,920
Speaker 1: you know, because she has a lot of yes, yes.

1968
01:48:50,280 --> 01:48:53,120
Speaker 1: But I took note of when she did and felt

1969
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:56,559
Speaker 1: uh proud and happy to know where that she would

1970
01:48:56,560 --> 01:48:59,040
Speaker 1: be like, I don't know. It's great for us Turkey

1971
01:48:59,080 --> 01:49:01,080
Speaker 1: geeks because we just it around here and just ask

1972
01:49:01,200 --> 01:49:04,519
Speaker 1: weird Turkey questions and she's like, yeah, yeah, let me

1973
01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:06,200
Speaker 1: tell you about this that. And you know, that's where

1974
01:49:06,240 --> 01:49:09,040
Speaker 1: you run up against the trouble talking to biologists is

1975
01:49:09,800 --> 01:49:14,599
Speaker 1: I'm interested in like what's the weirdest, right, and they're

1976
01:49:14,640 --> 01:49:16,760
Speaker 1: kind of biologists is more like, well, we're kind of

1977
01:49:16,800 --> 01:49:21,320
Speaker 1: a little more focused on sort of like what happens, happened,

1978
01:49:21,680 --> 01:49:26,160
Speaker 1: what normally happens, So I appreciate it. My concluder is

1979
01:49:26,240 --> 01:49:29,320
Speaker 1: that before we started recording, Becky and I were talking

1980
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:32,760
Speaker 1: about the National Wild Turkey Federation Convention that happens in

1981
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:37,120
Speaker 1: Nashville every week around Valentine's Day, that's right, And she

1982
01:49:37,240 --> 01:49:38,640
Speaker 1: was telling me what a good time it is, and

1983
01:49:38,680 --> 01:49:42,040
Speaker 1: I was saying that it must be right, but you

1984
01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:44,360
Speaker 1: didn't stay along. I think we should go back next year.

1985
01:49:45,360 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 1: We would love to have you back, maybe do a

1986
01:49:47,560 --> 01:49:49,600
Speaker 1: little something. Call and I were talking about doing a

1987
01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:56,720
Speaker 1: little uh, like a seminar called drumsticks and dies, something

1988
01:49:56,760 --> 01:50:00,880
Speaker 1: along those lines, as you can make them real good

1989
01:50:01,000 --> 01:50:03,840
Speaker 1: and and be like, tell me this ain't good. You know,

1990
01:50:04,040 --> 01:50:06,720
Speaker 1: that's what we call that booth something like that, this

1991
01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:09,040
Speaker 1: ain't good. But yeah, she just tell me what a

1992
01:50:09,160 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 1: party it is and what a good time, how people

1993
01:50:12,120 --> 01:50:14,439
Speaker 1: like take family vacations to be there. And I was

1994
01:50:14,520 --> 01:50:17,200
Speaker 1: just I was noticing that a lot of other conservation

1995
01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:22,720
Speaker 1: organizations there annual conventions aren't so hot anymore, and they

1996
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:25,240
Speaker 1: might be losing participation where it seems like the Turkey

1997
01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:28,920
Speaker 1: Convention is just like we hear everybody's going there and

1998
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:32,439
Speaker 1: it's not. People love it. Over fifty six thousand people

1999
01:50:32,600 --> 01:50:34,960
Speaker 1: or there last year. Yeah, that's where I met Will

2000
01:50:35,040 --> 01:50:38,400
Speaker 1: Primos real quick. Yeah, I mean, I mean it's so

2001
01:50:38,600 --> 01:50:42,160
Speaker 1: fun because you can you can we have secretaries of

2002
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:46,479
Speaker 1: UM Agriculture, Secretary of Interior was there, in chief of

2003
01:50:46,479 --> 01:50:49,880
Speaker 1: the Forest Service and rcs and they're they're they're having

2004
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:52,840
Speaker 1: dinner with people and you can have conversations with our

2005
01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:56,439
Speaker 1: members with those folks and then who's who of Turkey

2006
01:50:56,520 --> 01:50:59,400
Speaker 1: calling and all the rest of it. And so between

2007
01:50:59,439 --> 01:51:03,240
Speaker 1: the trades, know the events, the talks, the seminars. You

2008
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:06,320
Speaker 1: you get a wide variety and it's fun. It's like

2009
01:51:06,400 --> 01:51:09,240
Speaker 1: a big family reunion. Is it Nashville this year? Yeah,

2010
01:51:09,439 --> 01:51:14,000
Speaker 1: it's in Nashville. Well, we used to move it around. UM.

2011
01:51:14,120 --> 01:51:16,599
Speaker 1: Last time we had we moved out in Nashville as

2012
01:51:16,640 --> 01:51:20,040
Speaker 1: when the glor wound up getting flooded and had to

2013
01:51:20,120 --> 01:51:23,439
Speaker 1: be closed. So it's probably about eight years ago, seventy

2014
01:51:23,560 --> 01:51:27,480
Speaker 1: years ago, and we had it in Atlanta, much smaller participation,

2015
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:30,120
Speaker 1: but we have gotten so large that there are very

2016
01:51:30,200 --> 01:51:34,000
Speaker 1: few facilities that we can really host it. Um, well,

2017
01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:36,479
Speaker 1: don't move that thing to Las Vegas. Man, Well that's

2018
01:51:36,520 --> 01:51:39,480
Speaker 1: what I said. That and our membership. You know, historically

2019
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:43,599
Speaker 1: our membership was more um heavier to the eastern United States,

2020
01:51:43,640 --> 01:51:46,679
Speaker 1: so we're within driving distance for a lot of our membership,

2021
01:51:46,760 --> 01:51:48,800
Speaker 1: so they can bring the whole family down and makes

2022
01:51:48,840 --> 01:51:50,560
Speaker 1: it really nice. Yeah, I have to go down and

2023
01:51:50,640 --> 01:51:54,320
Speaker 1: hang out. Please do around that floor and just pick

2024
01:51:54,439 --> 01:51:59,000
Speaker 1: up every single pot call and go you and everybody else.

2025
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:02,240
Speaker 1: We should get a big stack thighs and drumsticks and

2026
01:52:02,280 --> 01:52:04,479
Speaker 1: do something fun. I'm gonna mend our title. It's gonna

2027
01:52:04,479 --> 01:52:08,679
Speaker 1: be called Turkey drumsticks, not just for driving intense stakes.

2028
01:52:12,200 --> 01:52:15,559
Speaker 1: So that would be great, man, if we had, if

2029
01:52:15,560 --> 01:52:17,920
Speaker 1: we were solicited from listeners a whole bunch of thighs

2030
01:52:17,960 --> 01:52:21,960
Speaker 1: and drumsticks, then went down and just had a taco truck.

2031
01:52:22,520 --> 01:52:27,880
Speaker 1: M we just gave out, don't talk too much about

2032
01:52:27,960 --> 01:52:30,479
Speaker 1: is gonna be held held to it now? Said if

2033
01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:34,960
Speaker 1: would be, We'd love to have you come down, Spencer,

2034
01:52:35,000 --> 01:52:38,439
Speaker 1: I don't have any concluders. Go ahead. Uh. The Turkey

2035
01:52:38,520 --> 01:52:42,240
Speaker 1: recovery stories like one of the coolest conservation stories there is.

2036
01:52:42,320 --> 01:52:44,120
Speaker 1: You know one time they said there was like thirty

2037
01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:47,439
Speaker 1: thousand that were left. And when people think of like

2038
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:49,920
Speaker 1: imperiled species today like an I'm ranging t hang or

2039
01:52:49,960 --> 01:52:53,160
Speaker 1: an elephant, there's hundreds of thousands of those left and

2040
01:52:53,439 --> 01:52:57,040
Speaker 1: people think of how few there are. And so when

2041
01:52:57,040 --> 01:52:59,000
Speaker 1: you think about thirty thousand turkeys and how they're seven

2042
01:52:59,040 --> 01:53:02,439
Speaker 1: million today, that's crazy. So it's thank you to Becky,

2043
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:06,080
Speaker 1: the NWTF and the agencies and all the people before you,

2044
01:53:06,520 --> 01:53:09,880
Speaker 1: because it's a really cool animal that you have brought

2045
01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:12,200
Speaker 1: back to this status that they're all over the continent.

2046
01:53:12,920 --> 01:53:16,519
Speaker 1: People think there's a trap of people thinking that things

2047
01:53:16,720 --> 01:53:20,240
Speaker 1: only get worse. That's right. And then when you learn

2048
01:53:20,280 --> 01:53:24,599
Speaker 1: about the story of American wildlife, like, oh, you can

2049
01:53:24,680 --> 01:53:27,280
Speaker 1: make the world better. You can. I used to give

2050
01:53:27,320 --> 01:53:29,280
Speaker 1: a talk when as a state director that these are

2051
01:53:29,400 --> 01:53:32,280
Speaker 1: the golden years, the great years, because you know, we

2052
01:53:32,439 --> 01:53:35,280
Speaker 1: spent a hundred years restoring a lot of these wildlife

2053
01:53:35,320 --> 01:53:39,400
Speaker 1: populations that just weren't around. But the Turkey Federation and

2054
01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:43,680
Speaker 1: then the Wild Turkey is a great success story. And

2055
01:53:43,800 --> 01:53:46,840
Speaker 1: it's it's nice because it's confidence boost to people that

2056
01:53:47,000 --> 01:53:50,080
Speaker 1: you really can with working together and effort, we can

2057
01:53:50,320 --> 01:53:53,280
Speaker 1: we can restore these species. We can enjoy them today

2058
01:53:53,320 --> 01:53:56,599
Speaker 1: and have them tomorrow. That's pretty cool. Yeah, good old

2059
01:53:56,600 --> 01:54:01,519
Speaker 1: American elbow Greece man uh in a in a nice

2060
01:54:01,560 --> 01:54:04,320
Speaker 1: incentive program. It is because you can go out and

2061
01:54:04,439 --> 01:54:07,720
Speaker 1: interact with these birds and hunt them and eat them.

2062
01:54:07,840 --> 01:54:10,120
Speaker 1: And that makes people be like, I'm in that's right,

2063
01:54:10,200 --> 01:54:13,360
Speaker 1: let's do it. And they're they're they're gorgeous. I mean,

2064
01:54:15,040 --> 01:54:16,920
Speaker 1: as I said, I probably told you guys this before

2065
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:19,400
Speaker 1: my daughter when she was Lawi's used to calm glowbirds

2066
01:54:20,240 --> 01:54:23,000
Speaker 1: because they glow. You know, you bring back those toms

2067
01:54:23,040 --> 01:54:25,519
Speaker 1: and they're still they just glow in the iridescence and

2068
01:54:25,640 --> 01:54:29,200
Speaker 1: the feathers and everything else. Pretty spectacular. Yeah. One that

2069
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:31,840
Speaker 1: you guys should work on is there's nothing that looks

2070
01:54:31,880 --> 01:54:36,640
Speaker 1: worse than a wet turkey. That's true. You have to

2071
01:54:36,760 --> 01:54:38,880
Speaker 1: think some way to when you get a wet turkey

2072
01:54:38,920 --> 01:54:40,960
Speaker 1: to make them look nice again, because then you walk

2073
01:54:41,040 --> 01:54:42,920
Speaker 1: up on a wet turkey, it's not like walking up

2074
01:54:43,480 --> 01:54:45,960
Speaker 1: it's not like walking up on a dry turkey. You're right,

2075
01:54:46,240 --> 01:54:48,840
Speaker 1: it's not not a glow bird anymore. Yeah, to tell

2076
01:54:48,920 --> 01:54:54,160
Speaker 1: the person normally a spectacular all right, Well, thank you

2077
01:54:54,280 --> 01:54:57,120
Speaker 1: very much, thank you people can find you guys obviously

2078
01:54:57,200 --> 01:54:59,800
Speaker 1: if you type in National Wild Turkey Federation, I mean

2079
01:54:59,840 --> 01:55:03,960
Speaker 1: they dot org. Yeah, and you're looking to get into

2080
01:55:04,040 --> 01:55:07,080
Speaker 1: turkey hunting man, go there and read because there is

2081
01:55:07,280 --> 01:55:10,720
Speaker 1: a just a I'm not going to use the expletitive

2082
01:55:11,520 --> 01:55:14,680
Speaker 1: term there, but just a lot of information. Like I

2083
01:55:14,800 --> 01:55:16,640
Speaker 1: still go there. I'm like, how could I not have

2084
01:55:16,760 --> 01:55:19,680
Speaker 1: read that article? And you can go there for good,

2085
01:55:20,040 --> 01:55:24,200
Speaker 1: um all like vocalizations and stuff, yep, all kinds of

2086
01:55:24,280 --> 01:55:27,400
Speaker 1: information and look up a local chapter. Get involved, get

2087
01:55:27,440 --> 01:55:29,600
Speaker 1: to know some of the people in your community that

2088
01:55:30,120 --> 01:55:33,360
Speaker 1: already are active and participate with the National Wild Turkey Federation.

2089
01:55:33,440 --> 01:55:36,120
Speaker 1: They're great people and we'd love to have new members

2090
01:55:36,280 --> 01:55:39,400
Speaker 1: join us. And get in your bids for the carbon

2091
01:55:40,360 --> 01:55:44,280
Speaker 1: carbon spider used the used left handed hoy carbon spider.

2092
01:55:44,880 --> 01:55:48,880
Speaker 1: Make your let us know your top bid and then

2093
01:55:48,920 --> 01:55:52,800
Speaker 1: we'll send the boat to whoever pledges the highest dollar

2094
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:55,720
Speaker 1: amount to the National Wild Turkey Federation. And thank you

2095
01:55:55,760 --> 01:56:05,320
Speaker 1: Becky for coming on. Thank you m