1 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a weekly markets podcast. 2 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 1: My name is Mike Reagan. I'm a senior editor at 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: Bloomberg and humbled Donna Higher across asset reporter with Bloomberg. 4 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: This week on the show, Well, cryptocurrencies have been mired 5 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: in a so called winter as the Federal Reserve raises 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: interest rates. Bitcoins down more than sevent from its highs. Yeah, 7 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: could there be signs of green shoots emerging in this 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: crypto winter? After all, bitcoins low for the year was 9 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: way back in June and it's held above that low. 10 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: Since we'll go hunting for green shoots with the CEO 11 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: of a digital asset fund manager. But first, fil Donna, 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: I have to ask Buffalo does not have a baseball team. No, 13 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: no baseball team. No baseball team, Go Bills? Fine, whatever, 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: how about the Fills? As a juror see native South 15 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: Jersey native, I really hope you're rooting for the Philly 16 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: I definitely am. You know why because I have a 17 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: teacher friend who lives in Philadelphia and if they win 18 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: and there's a city parade and then she gets the 19 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: day off. When the Eagles won the Super Bowl two, Yeah, 20 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: I knows seventeen. Uh, yeah, they all got the day 21 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: off and everybody went out into the streets. Yeah, exactly, 22 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: burnt cars. Just maybe Bloomberg will give us a day 23 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: off if it's possible. Can you put in a second 24 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: for that ask ye, I'll put in a picctre on 25 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: the show. I am worried about how how good the 26 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: Eagles are. They're incredibly good there. I'm really worried about them. Yeah. Yeah, 27 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: we have a guess waiting for us. By the way, 28 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: we could talk about this forever though, but I want 29 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: to bring in Leah Wald. She's the CEO of Digital 30 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: Asset fund manager of Walkere Investments. I can Buildna. Thank 31 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: you so much for having me. I'm so excited to 32 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: have you on the Padia and I've been talking for years, 33 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: I think now, and I think one of the first 34 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: times we spoke. Actually had been looking for an expert 35 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: who was very knowledgeable about world events. And you actually 36 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: have a background. You you had worked at the World Bank. 37 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: So maybe just tell us a little bit about your background, 38 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: how you got into crypto having had this World Bank experience. Yes, 39 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: I did. I started my career working at the World 40 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: Bank in the sub Saharan Africa region for the former 41 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: vp O bia Zek Wesley, an incredible woman who then 42 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: became Minister of Education in Nigeria and Resources among many 43 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: other things, as well as founding Transparency International. So the 44 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: segues are actually quite similar. At the time, it was 45 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: interesting the pilot programs for Empeza were launching in Kenya, 46 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: UM and and Pezza is a microfinance micro loan based 47 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: on SMS UH system. So when I learned about bitcoint 48 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: a few years later, to be honest, the value proposition 49 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: made complete sense to me. Of a permission list value 50 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: transfer transfer that's also UH denominated in UH fractional shares 51 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: that that can be shared over, you know, instantaneous. Now, 52 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: I don't think that bitcoin has taken off in the 53 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: way that I've hoped quite yet in the developing world 54 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: with some of those use cases, but it definitely was 55 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: starting at the World Bank and seeing those pilot programs 56 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: be so successful that got me excited about the use 57 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: cases and kind of the pillars and principles of crypto 58 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: and digital assets. What do you think is a sort 59 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: of holding back that development of those use cases in 60 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: UH developing economies? UM, you know, that's always been the 61 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: great promise, right is is uh, you know, under bank 62 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: communities being able to use crypto to sort of you know, 63 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: participated in some sort of fine actual system, if not 64 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: the traditional one. What do you think is holding it back? 65 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: I think that's a great question, something I asked myself 66 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: a lot. I think that it has evolved in certain ways, 67 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: given UH the more trend towards believing bitcoin to be 68 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: a store of value. I think that the recent advances 69 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: in countries like El Salvador that we've been following utilizing 70 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: bitcoin as legal tender alongside the United States dollar has 71 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: shown that there's definitely promise UH to sovereign nations for 72 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: using cryptocurrencies. But to your point, is it solving issues 73 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: with the remittances corridor other issues with unbanked I'm not 74 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: sure why it hasn't taken off quite yet. I think 75 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: that structurally we haven't been focused as much on those 76 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: types of use cases. I think the speculative elements of 77 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies have definitely had the limelight, which is maybe why 78 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: we're on this podcast today. UH. I think that money 79 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: has followed Wall Street UH and cryptocurrencies used again in 80 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: UH speculative elements and traditional finance joining rather than as 81 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: of right now solving some of those development economics issues. 82 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: But I think that as more development banks around the 83 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: world start getting more comfortable with crypto assets, which they 84 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: have not been, I think that we'll start to hopefully 85 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: see a little bit more progress on that front. With 86 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: that said, there have been fantastic technological developments that can 87 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: ease this, such as the amount of nodes on the 88 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: Lightning network being over seventy seven thousand, uh and a 89 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: lot of other advances that I think could facilitate, um 90 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: what is needed in developing countries for remittances or for 91 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: again microfinance, micro loan systems uh and whatever platform needs 92 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: to be used to make those successful, um you know, 93 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll it on the sooner end. I'm going 94 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: to ask you a somewhat controversial question, which is that 95 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: and you and I have spoken about El Salvador adopting 96 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: bitcoin as legal tender, and I think there's a couple 97 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: of other countries around the world that have done so, 98 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: but they're not places where there's you know, robust usage 99 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: of bitcoin or even you know, we had in El Salvador, 100 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: the failure of the of the crypto wallets, so they 101 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: hadn't been working when it first rolled out, etcetera, etcetera. 102 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering how great of examples these might be, 103 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: uh to to be using when talking about greater adoption 104 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: of of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Yeah. I think that's 105 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: the right question, and a controversial answer is that I 106 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: think what's been interesting from a GDP perspective is the 107 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: onus we've now placed on El Salvador and the tourism 108 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: that then has some to the country and generally the 109 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: community and enthusiast as um of bitcointerers around the world 110 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: to support El Salvadore due to the initiatives. So in 111 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: some ways, you're absolutely right. I don't think that the 112 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: actual usage of bitcoin as a means of payment on 113 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: the every day for buying a you know, big mac 114 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: is really taking off, although I think that again we're 115 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: very early stages for that to be comfortable. And generally speaking, 116 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: the divide, as you well know, uh, in the bitcoint world, 117 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: is is it a store of value, is it a 118 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: means of payment? Is it this? Is it that? And 119 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: I think that's still being figured out, and until that's 120 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: figured out, I think it's hard to try to pinpoint 121 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,679 Speaker 1: bitpoint being a means of payment as its success metric, 122 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: therefore showing the validity of that argument. But on the 123 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: other side, just generally from El Salvadore gaining attention in 124 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: a positive way, that's something that the country hasn't you know, 125 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: had that opportunity for in in a very long time. 126 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: So I think that in that front it's been quite successful. 127 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: A lot of tourists are coming again, a lot of support, uh, 128 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: and a lot of infrastructure builds, whether it's you know, 129 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: wallet's specifically designed for the country, it's definitely taken. I'd say, 130 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, the limelight of the fact that bitcoin as 131 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: a means of payment cannot take off unless the rails 132 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: are in place, So there has been a lot of 133 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: technology developed specifically for All Salvador as well. And again, 134 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't particularly a country that's been very 135 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: focused on by the mass public, But now we love 136 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: talking about All Salvador. I just mentioned it and you 137 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: called me out on it, which is fantastic, uh, And 138 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: I think that that's important as well. You know, Leah 139 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: Pildona and I recently wrote a piece talking about sort 140 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: of the transition from a very much a retail sort 141 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: of day trader mentality to crypto towards crypto to more 142 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: of an institutional approach. It seems like the influence of institutions, Uh, 143 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: the participation of institutions is much greater. You shared some 144 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: findings from some bullet points from a Fidelity survey. Just 145 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: read off a couple of the highlights. Adoption of digital 146 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 1: assets among those surveyed institutional investors increased to in the 147 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: US sixty seven percent in Europe globally, of all institutional 148 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: investors believe digital assets should be part of a portfolio. 149 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: So it definitely seems like institutions are jumping in with 150 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: both feet this year especially, I would think that would 151 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: be bullish for prices, and yet here we are, you know, 152 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: with prices down severely this year. I mean, did they 153 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: cushion the blow of this crypto winner or you know, 154 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: how are you thinking about sort of the interest of 155 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: institutions and the effect on levels for for bitcoin, ethereum 156 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: and everything else. Yeah, absolutely so those statistics are definitely exciting, 157 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: definitely bullish long term and as we vary well known finance, 158 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: it absolutely depends on your time horizon and institutions have 159 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: a longer time horizon. They also as a producery, I 160 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: cannot just jump in with a strategy. Might might I digress. 161 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: My former partner used to tell me hope is not 162 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: a good investment strategy. So as much as we you know, 163 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: may like bitcoin and we're interested in bitcoin, if it's 164 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: a bear market, it's a bear market, we're not buying 165 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: right and that's the way that it should be. So 166 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: I do think again, I'm very excited about institutions interest 167 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: family offices as well across the spectrum a desire to 168 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: have a crypto strategy for when the timing is right 169 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: to actually buy it. We also know that there is 170 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: a lot of different committees that need to sign off, 171 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of other rdles that institutions have, 172 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: whether it's risk parameters among others, and also just generally 173 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: the vehicle that they need in order to buy it. 174 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: So I think that those statistics from the Fidelity in 175 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: all so, a recent KPMG survey and many others have 176 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: been absolutely showing very exciting bullish metrics, but it's not 177 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: showing up in the market right now. And I think 178 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: that's also because we have a coupling in correlation to 179 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: the traditional market, and all of us are very concerned 180 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: for the most part about what the macra outlook is. 181 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: So I don't see any institutions investing in such a 182 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: risk asset at the moment. So I do see a 183 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: lot and we hear a lot of institutions that we're 184 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: speaking to on the sidelines and preparing. So I do 185 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: think if we consider a longer time horizon, that's exciting. Indeed. Yeah, 186 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: so they're they're just maybe not in the type of 187 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: size that would really bolster prices. I guess that's right. 188 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: So Leah, can you actually talk more about this because 189 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: we've sort of had bitcoin, largely Bitcoin and some other 190 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies mired in a very tight trading range. So Bitcoin 191 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: has been hovering around twenty thousand for weeks now, and 192 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: a lot of people are saying or asking is bitcoin 193 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: boring at the moment? Stuck a little bit more about 194 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: the macro landscape, because a couple of months ago, we, 195 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: you know, speaking of institutional interest, we had the Black 196 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: Crock announcement that they were partnering with coin base, and 197 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: I remember even back then, it really didn't do anything 198 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: in terms of being a catalyst upward for prices, So 199 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: what exactly is going on that's keeping prices very muted recently? 200 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: Right the million dollar or multimillion dollar question, I think 201 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: you brought up a couple of interesting points. Number one, 202 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: that bitcoin is boring, and how funny that is because 203 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: in the same survey that you just mentioned, Mike, the 204 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: main obstacle to adoption over said was volatility, right, and 205 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: that's always been for the most part. What are as 206 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: that we speak to and other money managers have had 207 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: as their highest concern is volatility and uh an inability 208 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: to accurately allocate given that volatility. So now we have 209 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: Bitcoin being the boring asset in the market, and I 210 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: think that there's some humor to that as well, but 211 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:11,719 Speaker 1: also some important elements to consider as this asset develops. 212 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: And to your second point, Bill Donna, I think that 213 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: the black Rock point based news was extremely important. You're 214 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: right that it didn't move the markets yet, but the 215 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: integration with the Laddin can't be overstated, and I think 216 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: anyone in traditional finance understands the power of Aladdin and 217 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: obviously the power of black Rock. What we've been hearing 218 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: is that allocators still want to work with UH sophisticated 219 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: crypto active managers to manage that product rather than allocate 220 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: themselves due to again those concerns around volatility, lack of 221 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: understanding around fundamentals, lack of regulatory clarity, and just general 222 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: UH discomfort in their own understanding of how to allocate 223 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: to this asset class. So I believe that number one, 224 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: as institutions get more comfortable with the asset class, they 225 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: will likely feel more comfortable allocating themselves through that integration 226 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: and in the introim that integrates directly to coin based 227 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: So you can't work with a active manager who is 228 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: fluent in allocating to these assets, especially in an active 229 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: and risk managed way. So I think that there is 230 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: still a hurdle where it went straight to the finish 231 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: line when maybe we're not quite there yet. Really, I'd 232 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: like to talk a little bit about the bitcoin mining space, UH. 233 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: I know one of your firms offerings is a miners 234 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: et f W g M. I UH actually really taking 235 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: it on the chin this year unfortunately, UH down seventy two. 236 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: I think since since February when it was launched, what 237 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: is the sort of the landscape for miners right now? 238 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: I mean clearly, when bitcoin prices are low, it's not 239 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: the best of times for them. But how do you 240 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: see sort of the the environment for miners progressing from here. 241 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: That's a really great ticker, by the way, w g 242 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: M I yeah, I think I know. What do you 243 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: think it stands for? It? We're going to make it? Yeah, yeah, 244 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: Leah's pumping our fast. You've got to do the inverse 245 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: version of it. IM not going to make it. I 246 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: love seeing not going to make it. You didn't think 247 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: I knew the hip crypto. I didn't know. I didn't 248 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: plus one hundred points for you today. That's amazing. I 249 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: didn't know, Mike, that you were such a bitcoiner. But 250 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: this is this. Yeah, I mean, as you guys know, 251 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: sometimes you've got to get creative with the tickers. You know, 252 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: that's a really good one. You have to be a 253 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: little playful, especially in this industry. And that's a tough question. 254 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: I am bullish, but there's also a lot of concerning elements, 255 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: especially with prices at this level. For Scientific recently warned 256 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: that it's on the verge of bankruptcy. That's no small deal. Um. 257 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: They're obviously publicly listed. Argo also just came out with 258 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: news that they failed to raise the twenty seven million 259 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: dollar strategic ground that they were in the midst of doing, 260 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: and that there's concerns around what that means. But on 261 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: the plus side, as we know, bear markets are for builders, 262 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: so and there's a lot of money still on this base, 263 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: especially from overseas money that's all, you know, relocating here 264 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: in the United States. So there's a lot of upside 265 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: to consolidation, perhaps not from the dessentialized ethos of bitcoin, 266 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: but from a business and capitalist standpoint, and and hopefully 267 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: price appreciation of the sector. You know, M and A 268 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: could reduce redundancies and costs, and stronger firms could most 269 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: definitely bolster their position. Weaker firms could return at least 270 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: some value to shareholders, which is very meaningful in this environment. 271 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: And again, you know, all industries go through this during downturns, 272 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: and mining is no different. So hopefully we continue to 273 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: see these activities, and we are now, especially in the 274 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: private equity realm, so I don't think it's going to 275 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: be seen just yet, but I do think that these 276 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: are bullish catalysts for long term and typically miners do 277 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: overperform bitcoin in a bull market. Right now. It's it's 278 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: quite difficult since it's sometimes in so there's like a 279 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: beta to them as a investment. I guess to whatever 280 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: the coins. I'm gonna blow your guys minds with this 281 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: next one because I'm ready. You know, the the Ethereum merge. 282 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: I've actually heard of that. I think I understand what 283 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: it was. But obviously that was the big, big event 284 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: this year where Ethereum switched from proof of work Lee, 285 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: I'm curious if that plays a role in troubles for 286 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: for miners. You know, I assume many of these companies 287 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: are mining bitcoin but also have rigs working as a 288 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: theory arium validators. UM. How does the switch to proof 289 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: of stake affect a sort of minor validator company? Um? 290 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: Is it less profitable for them? Uh? More profitable? You know? 291 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: Is there is there much difference for for these companies 292 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: involved in that space. Yeah. For miners that we're mining ethereum, 293 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: obviously they needed to switch and there has been you know, 294 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: luckily for the merge, we have known about it for 295 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: a very long time, so a lot of mining companies 296 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: prepared for this for you know, even the years now. 297 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: Miners are often agnostic as to which coin they're mining 298 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: if they're able to UH, simply due to market environments 299 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,479 Speaker 1: and where they can find the most alpha. For the 300 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: most part, though, I do think that the market reacted 301 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: to this news previously and that it was priced in, 302 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: and that miners across the industry had again prepared for 303 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 1: it accordingly, since it didn't happen overnight, the merge was 304 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: very much a countdown for you know, a couple of years. 305 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: But I do think that that's a good question and 306 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: also something maybe that we don't know quite yet, especially 307 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: hard to potentially decouple the market environment if we're just 308 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: looking at the price of UH and Bitcoin and maybe 309 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: some of the other proof of work coins UH. And 310 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: so maybe we'll see that more in the future, and 311 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: also as earnings continue to come out for these publicly 312 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: traded miners and and other companies that will be sharing 313 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: their financials soon, I think that that's when we're really 314 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: going to be able to see how that hit their 315 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: pan now. But right now, I think, given the merge 316 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: so recently happened, we probably don't know the full effects 317 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: quite yet. So besides the minor e t F, you 318 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: guys actually have a bunch of e T F s 319 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: and I have some E t F some more E 320 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: t F questions for you. So, for one, can you 321 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: talk about your Bitcoin Futures fund which launched last year 322 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: And I remember at the time writing about this because 323 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,239 Speaker 1: it was huge news in the crypto space. There had 324 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: been a ton of concern about some of the costs 325 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: associated with rolling the futures contract and how potentially that 326 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: was maybe going to eat away at some of the returns, etcetera, etcetera. Obviously, 327 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: also worries about volatility. So can you maybe reflect back 328 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: now that it's been a year about how well the 329 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: structure the fund itself and others like it have actually 330 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: held up and whether or not some of those worries 331 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: that we had back then sort of have have have 332 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: proved to be unfounded. Yeah. Absolutely, and it obviously varies 333 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: across US issuers. I think that there was probably a 334 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: real silver lining and being smaller and second in that 335 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: we've only held front month futures, so that makes the 336 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: role periods more fluid. You know. Again, if you if 337 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: you look at how our bitcoint Future z ETF has performed, 338 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: it's had very minimal contaging contango effect. Again that's really 339 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: due to the front month futures, and there's been actually 340 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: a lot of healthy volume um with momentum and new 341 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: creates over the past month. And you know, other metrics 342 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: again of the premium discount spread for e t f 343 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: s is kind of negligible based on the other trust 344 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: products in the market. So again, if we try to 345 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: consider that the bitcoin futures, the e t f S 346 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: as an alternative to g BTC as an example, or 347 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: O b t C, UH, there's just a huge discrepancy 348 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: on the poth positives of the structure of the coin 349 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,719 Speaker 1: futures E t F UM. So I would say that, uh, 350 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: Now a little over a year later, I agree with 351 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: you that um that launch day I was definitely hammered 352 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: on questions of role and how that would affect And 353 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: I think that uh time has shown that, especially if 354 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: you're holding in front month futures, that hasn't been as 355 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: scary as the market thought. And then I want to 356 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: ask you about a spot the coin e t F 357 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: and what the prospects are for that, because you know, 358 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: periodically we just tend to hear about this whenever we 359 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: hear from Gary Gensler, for instance, and I know there's 360 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: a huge contingent of believers who say, you know, it's 361 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: around the corner, it's going to get approved. So what 362 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: are actually the prospects predict Not in my lifetime, maybe 363 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: year two year, two lifetimes. But I have no comment, 364 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: no comments. Yeah, I give you the softball. I don't 365 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: want to you. I don't want to ate you. So Mike, 366 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: I shouldn't hold my breath because that's that's not gonna work. 367 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: Then well, and I wanted to throw a huge kudos 368 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: to Chairman Gendler, who appropriately tweeted recently about Bitcoin's birthday. 369 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: And I thought it was a very sweet tweet, actually 370 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: acknowledging that Halloween was actually the release of the white papers, 371 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: So that was very sweet to see. But Mike, Mike 372 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: threw a party for Bitcoin's birthday. I wasn't invited, though 373 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: It's true, you don't hear many kudos sent Ginstler's way 374 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: from hopefully he listens. And uh, and here's that one. 375 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: I mean, anyone could be Satoshi, So I don't know 376 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: if you know that was your costume and just you 377 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: presented yourself. I mean, Mike, it could be you and 378 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: we don't know about it. Um, but you know, Halloween 379 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: is amazing, It's my favorite holiday. As for the Bitcoin 380 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: Spot e t F, I mean, that's that's always been 381 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: the question, UM and I we definitely can't predict what 382 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: the SEC is going to do and when they approve it, um, 383 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: But as an issue tour, we're doing our best to 384 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: try to keep a finger on the polls. We most 385 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: definitely still are in the race to uh see that 386 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: holy grail, the Bitcoin Spot et F get approved. And 387 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: obviously we do agree that it's a more efficient vehicle, UM, 388 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: that it's the right vehicle, and I definitely think that 389 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: it will be UM a huge benefit to the market. 390 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: We've seen in other markets abroad, the Bitcoin future is 391 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: ets performed very well, very comfortably, UM, and you know 392 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: across from Canada to Brazilian as well as the other 393 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: e t n s in Europe. So you know, I 394 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: look forward to the day where we see that approved 395 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: here in the US. But I think that you're right, Mike, 396 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: maybe not that long, but I won't be holding you know, Leah. 397 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: One thing you sent some notes over to us before 398 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: the show. One thing really caught my eye is you 399 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 1: have a bullet point here that nearly one billion dollars 400 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: worth of bitcoin was recently moved to cold storage. Now 401 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: cold storage for those who are unfamiliar and correct me 402 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: if I mess this up. But it's basically, you take 403 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: the bitcoin off the exchange and you put it on 404 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: a hard drive, uh that you keep in a filing cabinet. 405 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: Then you promptly forget the pass word to the hard 406 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: drive where you throw it out and you have to 407 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: go dig through a dump to find it and uh 408 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: and spend billions trying to dig it out. Right right, 409 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: I'm kidding of worse. But but what is it about 410 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: the notion of moving bitcoin to cold stories that that 411 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: you think is bullish? Is Is it as simple as 412 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: that is that some of this is just gonna get 413 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: lost and forgotten? Cheez well, I I certainly hope not 414 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: with that type of amount. Um, I think that it's bullish. 415 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: It's also just as a divergent note, I also think 416 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: it's important to show the importance of bitcoin being able 417 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: to move that type of money instantaneously. It's just an 418 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: important element. If we talk about the bitcoin fundamentals, and 419 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: we often talk about price, but it is fun to 420 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: note the importance of the fundamentals on something like that, 421 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: but bullish. And the reason that it's bullish is typically 422 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: when crypto or especially bitcoin is moved into cold storage, 423 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: that buyer, that holdler doesn't plan on selling. So if 424 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: all of that was dumped on the market, I think 425 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: that we would be in some trouble. Indeed, But again, 426 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: when we see large movements, and that's called on chain analysis, 427 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: looking actually on Chaine moving from cold storage onto exchanges, 428 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: we get very nervous. It's certain that they are going 429 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: to be selling, but moving from exchanges into cold storage 430 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: means that it's going in the safe and hopefully they 431 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 1: don't plan on selling it and they're they're holding it 432 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: for the long term, which is something that we like 433 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: to see in is helpful for keeping the health of 434 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: the bit win market for longevity. What do you suppose 435 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: inspires that movement to cold storage? And I can't help 436 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: but wonder if some of these bankruptcies we've seen this 437 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: year have people worried about, you know, where their their 438 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: crypto is held. Is that part of it too? Do 439 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: you think? Yes? Actually, I think that I think that 440 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: that is the short note on the price and investment 441 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: thesis there is is simply that potentially you know a 442 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: lot of these holders believe that we're at the bottom 443 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 1: um or near there too, especially if their horizon is 444 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: much longer UM. So they're comfortable moving into storage now. Uh. 445 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: And you know, holding it at this price and feeling 446 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: very comfortable as to your very bit pointer comment. And 447 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: I'm very impressed today we in the industry say not 448 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: your key is not your points, and I think that's 449 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: absolutely right. There's a h widespread analogy actually an adage 450 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: there um that if you keep it on an exchange, 451 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: it's vulnerable and it's not your bitcoin. And I think 452 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: that there's nothing more pressing than actually and important than 453 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: what you're saying here. Given the contagion that we've seen 454 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: in the market that just devastated crypto this year across 455 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: the lending platforms, especially um SO, I think that that's 456 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: an important takeaway for anyone that does hold crypto, is 457 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: that not only keeping it on a third party platform 458 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: exposes you to the devastation of their policies and what 459 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: they are doing behind the scenes. Uh. And therefore you 460 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: can't always just get your bitcoin back, but again really 461 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: taking control of your money and ensuring that you are 462 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: holding in and therefore you know exactly where it is, 463 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: so not your keys, meaning private keys in order to 464 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: um hold your bitcoin, not your coins. So I think 465 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: that that's very very important, especially again in light of 466 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: everything that's just devastated the market from the contagion of 467 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: the hedge funds, the learning platforms, and most of the 468 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: funds that got blown up. Hm. And just to keep 469 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: us going with the theme of you know, crypto specific 470 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: terms or memes. Even one of my favorites is October, 471 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: which is just people hoping that the month of October 472 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: is a very good month for cryptal prices, and we 473 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: had somewhat of an October over the over the past month. 474 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: So can you maybe just talk about some of those 475 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: other green shoots, like what else is out there that 476 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: maybe is making you a bit more positive about things? Yeah, 477 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: I think again bringing it back to the fidelity points 478 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: that you spoke about earlier, Mike, I think that those 479 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: are positive elements that we definitely need to take note of. 480 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: There's other institutions that have been coming out with very 481 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: powerful news Bank in New York announcing their bitcoin custody. 482 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: Uh NASA did as well. Other very large players such 483 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: as Apollo, Franklin Templeton with s m a s across 484 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: the spectrum. So I do think again that a lot 485 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: of very smart traders are seeing this as a relative bottom, 486 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: but as a buy opportunity. And again I think that 487 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: as much as institutions continue to come out with positive 488 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: news release reports such as what you mentioned, which has 489 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: news about already allocating to these digital assets, UH, the 490 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: comment at hand that we were speaking about is you know, 491 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: how much are they allocating uh, and is a decisable 492 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: portion of the portfolio, But knowing that they are allocating 493 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: already is important to note. And again we've been speaking 494 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: more US centric, but globally it's it's really a different environment. 495 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: I used to live in Singapore for a few years 496 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: and in Singapore it's a different conversation to be speaking 497 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: about bitcoin and crypto and your allocation strategies. And across 498 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: Asia you just see different dynamics, uh, South Korea always 499 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: being a hub, Japan being very regulatory forward um throughout 500 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: the past few years. So again, it's not just a 501 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: US phenomenon, and the rest of the world has been allocating. 502 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: And I think that in keeping in mind that this 503 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: is a global phenomenon and asset class that's traded worldwide, 504 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: and those moved the markets as well. I think that 505 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: there is bullish news to be had. I don't know 506 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: if we can truly call it an up October I 507 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: as having moved the markets, given where we're sitting again 508 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: right now, but definitely there's there's been bullish news that 509 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: has come out over the past month, right And obviously 510 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: we talked about a lot of positives that you and 511 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: others within the industry have been sort of pointing tour 512 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: or looking at recently. But again we have to remember 513 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: what actually is happening bigger picture with the crypto space, 514 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: and some of the most heart wrenching headlines have been 515 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: about a lot of the layoffs or reshufflings or you know, 516 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: within just a huge number of crypto companies and bloomering. 517 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: News just this week reported about Galaxy considering some layoffs, 518 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: and there have just been so many I've been writing 519 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: about Genesis and some of the moves that people have 520 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: been making away from that company. So maybe you can 521 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: you can talk about your view on what's going on 522 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: in terms of seeing some of the CEOs, especially leaving, 523 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: and then tell us about what's happening with Valkyrie specifically 524 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: and how some of these changes and trends have been 525 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: impacting you guys. Yeah, I think it's been a hard winter, 526 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: and I think that a lot of US firms and 527 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: especially crypto asset management understand that the winter could be 528 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: here for much longer, maybe eighteen months even plus. Um So, 529 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: from even just a dispassionate business decision. Um as awful 530 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: is that sounds. Sometimes that's the decisions you need to 531 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: make as the CEO in the end of the day 532 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: in order to cut costs as much as needs be 533 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: based on what your p m L is looking like. 534 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: In this type of environment, there has been necessities for 535 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: many firms across the industry to conduct layoffs and other 536 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: metrics and measures such as strategic grounds. Again right now, 537 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: you're seeing that across across the industry. Blockchain dot came 538 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: out with news that they're also raising another strategic round. 539 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: Um So, I think that, you know, uh yeah, a 540 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: lot of the crypto asset managers all intensive purposes. I'd 541 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,719 Speaker 1: see a lot of us as startups. We are not 542 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: black Rock as much as we hope to be one day, 543 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: and the introm we are still trying our best to 544 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: still have a seat at the table, But that does 545 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: mean that we are more prone to these types of 546 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: market volatility than a larger legacy firm in New York 547 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: City would be in something like this. So I think 548 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: the best that we can do and what we all 549 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: need to be thinking about. Again, as mentioned previously, bear 550 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: markets are for builders, so hunkering down on what's working 551 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: and what your vision is for the future is what's important. 552 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: So at Valkyrie, it's been very important to the firm 553 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,479 Speaker 1: to be building infrastructure tools and technology this year, and 554 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: that's something that we're focusing on during this market as well, 555 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: is ensuring that our funds are running to the highest 556 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: quality possible, making it through the Bearer market, taking care 557 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: of our investors and holding their hands when it gets 558 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: a little scary, and building the infrastructure tools to make 559 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: sure that as this market faws, we are in the 560 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: most powerful position and digitally enhanced if you will, um 561 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: to really take advantage of the uptick and and be 562 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: there as a hopefully a powerhouse. But I would say 563 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: that you know, this market definitely hits us more than 564 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: the legacy players. Uh you know you mentioned bitcoins celebrating 565 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: its birthday. I think throughout the entire lifespan of bitcoin. Uh. 566 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: The notion of regulation has just been hanging over the 567 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: whole space like this you know storm cloud. Uh, and 568 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: it you know, it really seems like it's only been 569 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: sprinkling the storm cloud. It hasn't really been a day 570 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: lousee yet of you know, of regulations. Um. But obviously 571 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: we have a mid term election coming up. So is 572 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: there any risk there, either positive or negative risk in 573 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: your mind is as far as how these mid terms 574 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: shake up? Yeah, I think that that's a great question. 575 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: I think that it does very much depend on what 576 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: we see in the midterm elections and in regards to 577 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 1: getting again, if we're looking at that bitcoin spot et 578 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: F approval, I think that many firms across the board 579 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: are looking for greater regulatory understanding and guidelines from all 580 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: the regulators on how that affects them. I think that 581 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people were interested in what came out 582 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: with Fasby recently and generally are just looking to Washington, 583 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: d C. Two see how that affects their firm and 584 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: if it makes them comfortable enough to be able to 585 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: buy UM. So I think, as mentioned, we are likely 586 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: a far ways off at least a couple of years 587 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: from that spot bit we needs f um But yeah, 588 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 1: we're watching the mid terms very closely. We think that 589 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: if Democrats retained majority, we expect rules and regulations to come, 590 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: hopefully within the next year, but we also expect that 591 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: if Republicans take the majority in one or more houses 592 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: of Congress, we expect that it may take longer. So 593 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: we're definitely watching that very closely. Is it sort of 594 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: better for the industry to just get those you know, 595 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: rip the band aid off with those regulations and get 596 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: them in place quicker? Absolutely? And actually, Bill Donna, I 597 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: loved your peace about that recently, and I think that, uh, 598 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,359 Speaker 1: you know, I would love your thoughts a little bit 599 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 1: more since I think that your piece recently really nailed 600 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: that on the head that it seems as if the 601 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: industry just celebrates, uh, having that type of clarity so 602 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: that they'll have more comfort buying. Yeah, I think you're 603 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,720 Speaker 1: talking about the We we did a market's live survey 604 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: saying that or asking people would you be more interested 605 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: in crypto if there were more regulations in place, and 606 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: the majority of respondents had said yes. I think so. 607 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: There was this really great quote where somebody told me. 608 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: The more they can get crypto out of the wild 609 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: West and into traditional investing, the better off it's going 610 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: to be. So I think a lot of people, at 611 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: least they say that they'd be more interested in this 612 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 1: space if there were greater regulations in place. Well, I 613 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: think that's a good segue for us, yes to our 614 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 1: own wild West of crazy things. But mine isn't even 615 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: markets related, but it's numbers related. So I'm just going 616 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: to cheat. I've been cheating a lot recently, but this 617 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: is so hilarious I had to go with it. Okay, 618 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: go ahead, I really hope you haven't seen this. A 619 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: man in China one a thirty million dollar lottery jack 620 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,800 Speaker 1: pot dollar lottery. That's okay, that's it. I'm just kidding. 621 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: And this is this is the kicker. He's keeping it 622 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: a secret from his wife and child because he's worried 623 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 1: that the winnings might make them lazy. So he went 624 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: to the lottery office to claim his prize, obviously the 625 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,720 Speaker 1: big check, and he wore he wore this hilarious bright yellow, 626 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,839 Speaker 1: bright yellow costume had big like googly eyes, so his 627 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: face and body were totally covered, so that his wife 628 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: and child cannot recognize him. I'm sure that's the reason 629 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: why he's hiding that thirty million from his wife. Sure why? 630 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: I think there's other reasons to hide thirty million from 631 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: your wife, you know, Like what, I don't know. If 632 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: my wife listens to this podcast, I might be are 633 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: you hiding thirty million dollars? Oh? Is this person you? Okay, 634 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: so he said I didn't tell my wife and child 635 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 1: for fear that they would be too complacent and would 636 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: not work or work hard in the future. I just 637 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: love that, all right, all right, I didn't know that 638 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,439 Speaker 1: was a possibility. We've done lottery stuff before. Yeah, good, 639 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,240 Speaker 1: good stuff. All right. How about Julia, you see anything 640 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: crazy recently in markets? Okay? So this this was tough. 641 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: But I has told this recently, and I thought that 642 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: it was pretty interesting. It's actually quite sad. But you 643 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: guys also talked about the Phillies I believe. So it's 644 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 1: a Phillies factoy. So apparently if you look at the 645 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: years when Philadelphia teams won the World Series, they were 646 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: all in or near periods of economic or stock market weakness, 647 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 1: and we are obviously in one now. So bad omens. Indeed, 648 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: that was something new that I learned recently, so scared 649 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: the athletics the predecessor I believe, Yes, well two thousand 650 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: and eight, that was the last time. Look, it's a 651 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: small price to pay, all right, A minor recession, financial crisis, 652 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 1: you know, if that's what it takes for the Phillies 653 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: to win, I'm okay with I saw this on Twitter 654 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: and I close it out real fast. I really did. 655 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, I think there are some 656 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,760 Speaker 1: who will claim that the A's won a few series 657 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: that did not precipitate a financial crisis, so h But 658 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: I mean I was gonna say this has track. It 659 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: is what it is. If a global financial crisis is 660 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: what it takes, I think most of Phili would be 661 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: okay with that. I didn't say it. I think the 662 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: A's actually did win as well. I know, I know 663 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: it's not good. Oh we'll get a cheesesteak and call 664 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: it a day. Cry into the Tuesday and a pretzel 665 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: for me now, Leah. I know in your world, heavy 666 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: crypto traders like to refer to themselves as d gens 667 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 1: or degenerates, but as d gen as they get, they 668 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,720 Speaker 1: don't really compare to the original dgens of the gambling world. 669 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: So so my crazy thing relates to the gambling markets. 670 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: So did mine lottery? Right? Okay, fine, fine, all right? 671 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: Have you heard of this guy, Mattress Mac in Houston 672 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 1: and Texas. He's a furniture He owns this furniture chain 673 00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,239 Speaker 1: of furniture stores, and he has placed a bet on 674 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: the Houston Astros to win the World Series to beat 675 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,799 Speaker 1: my Philadelphia Philly. So clearly a degenerate right there. With that, 676 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,919 Speaker 1: with that pick those cheaters in Houston. Uh, I'm just kidding. 677 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: Mattress Mac seems like a very nice guy, very fine. 678 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: I was going to lean into this with you. I 679 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: don't want Mattress Mac coming at from anyway he's placed. 680 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: If he wins this bet, they said, it will be 681 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: the biggest legal gambling winning of all time. So, Lee, 682 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,439 Speaker 1: I regret to inform you you are a concessant on 683 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,240 Speaker 1: our game show. The prices precise, and so is val Donna, 684 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: who I think may have already read the story. This 685 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: story is person by the way, you just know Mattress 686 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 1: Mac from his mattress because he placed some bet like 687 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: six months ago on something and he won big. He 688 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: he places big bets. Yeah, left and right. I think 689 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,720 Speaker 1: he did a Super Bowl bet that explain his strategy. 690 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: It's a brilliant strategy when when you find out. But 691 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: what do you on a prisis precise? What do you 692 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 1: think the biggest legal gambling win will be if this 693 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:13,360 Speaker 1: guy wins? Which is the payout Philly gonna win? Okay, 694 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with one eight million, eight million? Okay, Leah, 695 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: what do you think the payout will be on the 696 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 1: world's biggest legal recorded sports gambling that I want to red? 697 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: I want to go higher. I'm going to go with 698 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,359 Speaker 1: four point three million. Alright, I'm keeping a poker face here, Leah. 699 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 1: What's what's your entry on the prices precise for the 700 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: biggest ever legal gambling payout? I believe legal sportsman gambling payout. 701 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: I want to go even higher. No, you get you 702 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: already amended it once. I'm going over. So I'll go 703 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 1: four point eight, I take I take above Vilgana. Yeah, 704 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: you'll take four point nine, four point eight and one 705 00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,959 Speaker 1: dollar's going to do it to five point five. But final, 706 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 1: let's stick with whatever se million dollars. Yes, so I 707 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 1: kind of win that when you played it smart, that's 708 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: the way you play it. Yeahfals not to get it 709 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,799 Speaker 1: on the nose. It's just to beat Bildana. Yeah, he 710 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,319 Speaker 1: bet ten million on the Astros at average odds of 711 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 1: seven and a half odds. But the guy's kind of 712 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: a genius because here's his strategy. He told his customers, 713 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,280 Speaker 1: if you spend three thousand dollars or more on a mattress, which, 714 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: first of all, I did not even know mattresses sold 715 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: for three thousand dollars. Yes, I need to sleep in 716 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: one of those mattresses. I don't think I'll ever wake up. 717 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: If if the customers spends three thousand or more on 718 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: a mattress and the Astros win, they get the mattress 719 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: for free. Right, So what happens is all these people 720 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,320 Speaker 1: went and bought expensive mattresses, all these astros. He sold 721 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: something like seventy three million worth the attresses, and then 722 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,640 Speaker 1: you have to shut it down because he placed a 723 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: ten million dollar bet. So if the Astras win, he 724 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 1: wins seventy five million, and his customers get seventy three 725 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 1: million in free mattresses. Still makes money, that's lose. He 726 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: has sold all these mattresses. Pretty brilliant strategy there, despite 727 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 1: the fact that the astros are gonna lose. Hopefully they 728 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: will lose by the time this podcast comes out on Friday, 729 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 1: I hope. So it's a brilliant strategy, though, Leo, I 730 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,319 Speaker 1: gotta admit I you know it's kind of no outside. Yeah, 731 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,359 Speaker 1: very smart. Okay, Well, that's that's it for our show. 732 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: Leo wald CEO, a digital asset fund manager of all 733 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: Korean Investments. Thank you so much for joining us. It 734 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: was so fun to have you on. Thank you so 735 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,319 Speaker 1: much for letting me join today. It was a lot 736 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:56,879 Speaker 1: of fun. Thanks, thank you, Leah. That's it for our show, 737 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,560 Speaker 1: and don't forget to tune into Bloomer Crypto, a daily 738 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: Bloomer I heart podcast What Goes Up. We'll be back 739 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,239 Speaker 1: next week. Until then, you can find us on the 740 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Terminal website and app or wherever you get your podcasts. 741 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: We'd love it if you took the time to rate 742 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: and review the show on Apple Podcasts so more listeners 743 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: can find us. And you can find us on Twitter 744 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 1: follow Mike at Rea Anonymous, I'm at Poldonna Hirich, and 745 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 1: you can also follow Bloomberg Podcasts at podcasts. What Goes 746 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,880 Speaker 1: Up is Produced by Stacy Wong. Thanks so much for listening, 747 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 1: and we'll see you next week.