Speaker 1: Mental health is now talked about more than ever, which
Speaker 1: is awesome. I mean, I don't have to tell you
Speaker 1: that it's a primary focus of on Purpose, but on
Speaker 1: a day to day basis, many people don't know where
Speaker 1: to turn or which tools can help. Over the past
Speaker 1: couple of years, I've been working with Calm to make
Speaker 1: mental wellness accessible and enjoyable, or as I like to say,
Speaker 1: fun and easy. Calm has all sorts of content to
Speaker 1: help you reduce anxiety and stress, build mindful habits, improve sleep,
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Speaker 1: along with renowned meditation teachers. You can also check out
Speaker 1: my seven minute daily series to help you live more
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Speaker 1: Calm dot com Forward slash j that's Calm dot com
Speaker 1: Forward slash jay for forty percent off Calm your Mind,
Speaker 1: Change your Life.
Speaker 2: I don't get about my network. So many people tell
Speaker 2: me I've got this great idea, but I don't want
Speaker 2: to hear about But like, let's go for it. Part
Speaker 2: of being the entrepreneurs have the courage to fail. If
Speaker 2: you're afraid to fail, you ain't gonna do shit.
Speaker 1: The global sports company Fanatics and you heard of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah, Founder and CEO Michael Rubin, Welcome back, sir.
Speaker 2: I've seen death in its eyes. I've almost gone bankrupt
Speaker 2: multiple times. There are so many things that I should
Speaker 2: not have succeeded at, but I have because I won't quit.
Speaker 2: If you set goals that are easy to accomplish, then
Speaker 2: you're actually saying you want to fail.
Speaker 1: Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite
Speaker 1: you to join this community to hear more interviews that
Speaker 1: will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All
Speaker 1: I want you to do is click on the subscribe button.
Speaker 1: I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments,
Speaker 1: and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go
Speaker 1: on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing.
Speaker 1: It means the world to me.
Speaker 2: The best selling author on the most the number one
Speaker 2: health and well in this podcast, Purpose with Jay Shetty.
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, number one health
Speaker 1: podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one
Speaker 1: of you that come back every week to listen, learn
Speaker 1: and grow. Now you know that my goal here and
Speaker 1: intention is to talk to people from different backgrounds, different
Speaker 1: walks of life. People who've achieved impact in their own
Speaker 1: life and are having an impact around and across the world.
Speaker 1: People who are motivated to do better, be better, and
Speaker 1: give back. And today's guest is someone who's doing exactly that,
Speaker 1: probably not as fast as he would like. I've just
Speaker 1: learned as well. I'm talking about the one and only
Speaker 1: Michael Rubin, an entrepreneur, philanthropist, and social justice advocate. Michael
Speaker 1: has built several multi billion dollar direct to consumer companies.
Speaker 1: Michael CEO of Fanatics, a global digital sports platform that
Speaker 1: is reimagining the fan experience across many different businesses. Michael's
Speaker 1: an advocate for criminal justice reform and the co chair
Speaker 1: of Reform Alliance, an organization that includes some of the
Speaker 1: biggest names in sports, business, and culture that's dedicated to
Speaker 1: advancing criminal justice reform and eradicating antiquated probation laws that
Speaker 1: perpetuate injustice in the United States. Michael was named Sports
Speaker 1: Business Journal Executive of the Year in twenty twenty two
Speaker 1: and has also been named to the Bleacher Report Power
Speaker 1: fifty list of most influential people in sports. Welcome to
Speaker 1: on Purpose, Michael Rubin.
Speaker 2: I'm happy to be here. I've watched what you've done
Speaker 2: and myle what you do, and you've got such an
Speaker 2: incredible following and just huge respect for you.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. The feeling is very mutual. It's been
Speaker 1: amazing watching your from afar. And I've always been fascinated
Speaker 1: and drawn to people who've built incredible businesses and then
Speaker 1: used their platform for impact because growing up I didn't
Speaker 1: see a lot of that. Growing up, I either saw
Speaker 1: people build businesses or have an impact, and so when
Speaker 1: I see people doing the same, it's it's exactly the
Speaker 1: values I try and live by and I love watching it.
Speaker 1: So thank you for going down that line. But let's
Speaker 1: dive straight in. I wanted to ask you, Michael, what
Speaker 1: was you know, such a successful business person? What was
Speaker 1: your first ever job that you ever had in life?
Speaker 2: So for me, I think a lot of people know
Speaker 2: the story. I was a terrible student, you know, barely
Speaker 2: met out of high school. I went to college for
Speaker 2: less than semester. As bad as the students I was,
Speaker 2: I was honestly the worst athlete, Like I was just
Speaker 2: I wasn't coordinated, I wasn't a good athlete. The one
Speaker 2: thing I was always good at was working. Like I
Speaker 2: loved business from the time I was a kid. So
Speaker 2: everything I remember about being young was working. So my
Speaker 2: first job was that I can remember. It was probably
Speaker 2: eight years old. I probably had like five different side hustles.
Speaker 2: I mean I was selling trading cards, you know, by
Speaker 2: the way, not to my friends, but to my friends'
Speaker 2: parents because they had the money. I was when it
Speaker 2: would snow in Philadelphia where I grew up, I would
Speaker 2: get five kids to do the snowshovel and I would
Speaker 2: go door to door and actually sell the snowshoveling. I
Speaker 2: was selling vegetable seeds door to door. I was making
Speaker 2: stationary and the Appletude plus and selling it. I mean,
Speaker 2: I was just like I was the real entrepreneur, Like
Speaker 2: it's what I was good as, what I like doing,
Speaker 2: And so I had so many different jobs as an
Speaker 2: eight year old. But I mean that's like when people say,
Speaker 2: you know how long you've been at it, it's crazy
Speaker 2: forty three years. I've been doing this since I've been
Speaker 2: eight years old.
Speaker 1: Wow, And when you were doing that, was there any inspiration.
Speaker 1: Was it just you wanted money? What did you want
Speaker 1: to buy? What were you doing with that? Like excited
Speaker 1: you about it?
Speaker 2: I don't think for me, even at eight years old,
Speaker 2: it was ever about money or wanting to buy things.
Speaker 2: I think it was always about doing what you're good at.
Speaker 2: And for me, knowing that I wasn't good, like I
Speaker 2: had a lot of learning challenges. I mean as a kid,
Speaker 2: like I had every you know person to try to
Speaker 2: help me with all the things I sucked at, whether
Speaker 2: it was athletically or you know, it was just like
Speaker 2: I just I wasn't good at sports, I wasn't good
Speaker 2: at school. But business is what I was good at.
Speaker 2: So I just always gravitate to that. I think that's
Speaker 2: a good thing. Like you should always figure out how
Speaker 2: to do things that you love. You should figure out
Speaker 2: how to do things that you're good at and kind
Speaker 2: of double down on that. So that's always been my
Speaker 2: whole life.
Speaker 1: How did you know that at eight? Because I feel
Speaker 1: my most eight year olds today obviously playing video games.
Speaker 1: Back then, they're probably watching TV, maybe they were out
Speaker 1: riding a bike, Like, how did you know that you
Speaker 1: were good at this?
Speaker 2: And I think it's something for me, I was born
Speaker 2: with like I was born with that entrepreneur a hustle.
Speaker 2: I think I came out of the womb like just
Speaker 2: you know, wanting to be an entrepreneur, like just loving
Speaker 2: the hustle. And you know, to me, you know, I've
Speaker 2: been at this a long time. I work harder than
Speaker 2: I've ever worked today. I love. It's an honor to do.
Speaker 2: It's fun, it's an opportunity. Like I'm never tired, I'm
Speaker 2: never worn out, like I'm just always I just want
Speaker 2: to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can it be learned? Can you teach people to
Speaker 1: hustle and grind and develop the mindset or is it
Speaker 1: born with as you are?
Speaker 2: So I think I was definitely born with it. That said,
Speaker 2: I do think, you know, for me, the way I
Speaker 2: learned is by being a sponge from people. So I'm
Speaker 2: always picking things up from different people. Like if you
Speaker 2: just look at the diversity of people I have around me, Like,
Speaker 2: I'm always taking so much learnings from them to you know,
Speaker 2: be better what I do, and I try to give
Speaker 2: those backs. So yeah, I think you can definitely learn
Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff just what you know, find
Speaker 2: people you respect, find people that you admire, find people
Speaker 2: that you want to be like, and then you know,
Speaker 2: take the good from them and by the way, figure
Speaker 2: out what they do that you don't like and ignore that.
Speaker 2: Like I see good and bad each person. I try
Speaker 2: to take the good and learn from the bad. And
Speaker 2: same thing with me. I've got lots of bad habits.
Speaker 2: I mean, like, I'm myself.
Speaker 1: That's right, That's all I ask for. That's all I
Speaker 1: ask for. There is no judgment here, there's no it's
Speaker 1: a safe space. I just want people to be the
Speaker 1: authentic selves and so so please continue to be yourself
Speaker 1: and what so what I love that idea of learning
Speaker 1: from people, being a human sponge. What's the most recent
Speaker 1: or most memorable thing you think you took away from
Speaker 1: someone A conversation, a moment, something you read or heard
Speaker 1: or learned. Was there anything that kind of stuck with you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I mean, look, I'm in LA for
Speaker 2: the week. I'm doing six to ten meetings a day
Speaker 2: in my house, and you know, to the people I
Speaker 2: met with in the last two days has been through
Speaker 2: some real challenges and just watching the challenges that they've
Speaker 2: been through, I'm like, Okay, I need to be that
Speaker 2: much more careful about how I conduct myself in everything
Speaker 2: that I do. So to me, I'm always taking learnings
Speaker 2: away from people. I think if you're not like you know,
Speaker 2: you have no chance of like you know, getting better
Speaker 2: at what you do. I mean it's like life is
Speaker 2: no different than sports. You just got to keep getting
Speaker 2: better at your sport. And so to me, I keep
Speaker 2: working in everything I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think obviously now, like when you
Speaker 1: started forty three years ago at eight years old, entrepreneurship
Speaker 1: wasn't as talted as this incredible it was.
Speaker 2: It was actually weird, right, Like to be clear, like
Speaker 2: I was a nerd like that, I loved business, Like
Speaker 2: entrepreneurialism came cool really around technology, Like I don't think
Speaker 2: it became cool to almost from my perspective, everything was
Speaker 2: really the birth of the dot com error. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of late nineties is when entrepreneurialism became cool. I
Speaker 2: think before that was kind of nerdy and weird. So
Speaker 2: I was definitely born before it all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'd say even off to the financial crisis
Speaker 1: in like two thousand and seven eight, like that recession,
Speaker 1: which is because I grew up in the era where
Speaker 1: we still aspire to be investment bankers or consultants. So
Speaker 1: when I was at college or when I was growing up,
Speaker 1: that was seen if you were into business. My goal
Speaker 1: was to go into that world because that's what I
Speaker 1: aspired for. Whereas I think the generation off to me,
Speaker 1: the one off to me, they were like, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to go work for someone. I want to build
Speaker 1: something on my own.
Speaker 2: I think that's amazing for me. I love. One of
Speaker 2: the things that I'm fortunate enough to do is really
Speaker 2: I think, in a lot of ways, you know, encourage entrepreneurialism.
Speaker 2: And you know, one of our biggest businesses the collectibles business,
Speaker 2: which is trading cards of my rebility, and that's all
Speaker 2: about entrepreneurs. There's so many entrepreneurs in that business. It's
Speaker 2: probably the business in a lot of ways that I
Speaker 2: actually related to all three of our businesses. But it's
Speaker 2: the business that's maybe the most relatable for me because
Speaker 2: I grew up selling trading our snate year old. But
Speaker 2: also it's all about entrepreneurialism.
Speaker 1: Talk to me through that business because so I remember
Speaker 1: so back in London obviously where I grew up, I
Speaker 1: collected football stickers, right soccer stick Yeah, so that's what
Speaker 1: we'd have. We'd have the big you'd have the spread
Speaker 1: with all the premier league clubs, and you'd collect the
Speaker 1: little stickers, and that was a big part of collectibles.
Speaker 1: How has that industry evolved as technology has grown up?
Speaker 1: Has it stayed the same where people are still collecting
Speaker 1: cards and like top trumps and things like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll say we got into the business about
Speaker 2: three years ago in a really significant way, and today
Speaker 2: we own Tops, which is the you know, kind of
Speaker 2: pre eminent brand in trading cards. I'd say that, you know,
Speaker 2: until our arrival in the industry little less than three
Speaker 2: years ago, I said, there hadn't been you know, a
Speaker 2: tremendous amount of innovation. There hadn't been a tremendous amount
Speaker 2: of marketing.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: We kind of looked at the business said wow, like
Speaker 2: this is such an incredible collector base, such an incredible
Speaker 2: fan base, yet it hasn't changed for like decades. Here
Speaker 2: and you go to a you know, the big trading
Speaker 2: card show where there's more than one hundred thousand people
Speaker 2: that come to Chicago this past summer. It's called the
Speaker 2: National Trading Card Show. Yeah, it looks like something from
Speaker 2: only thirty forty years ago. So for us, that was
Speaker 2: just that just meant opportunity meant if you actually make
Speaker 2: innovative products, you actually really market these products, you build
Speaker 2: a better consumer experience and bring people forward into twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three. Like what an opportunity. So for me, like,
Speaker 2: we do that in all of our business, Like I
Speaker 2: love like we love finding great opportunities, big challenges and
Speaker 2: kind of being unrelenting about going after them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how has that changed? How has that practically changed?
Speaker 1: Like people still buying cards and trading.
Speaker 2: Physical cards are the biggest part of business. It's in
Speaker 2: a lot of way, it's very similar to art. But
Speaker 2: I can tell you, like just as one quick example
Speaker 2: this year, you know, our team came in and actually
Speaker 2: the CEO of our business, Mike Mahon, said, Hey, I
Speaker 2: got a great idea. Every time a player debuts for
Speaker 2: the first time, I want to put a patch on
Speaker 2: their jersey and then as soon as they get done
Speaker 2: the game, I'm want to put that patch off and
Speaker 2: put it in a one on one trading card so
Speaker 2: you have the card from the first So think about
Speaker 2: for us, you know, maybe I grew up in the
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan or had I had you know, Michael Jordan
Speaker 2: or yeah, if I had Michael Jordan or Kobe's first
Speaker 2: one on one cards, Yeah, that could be the most
Speaker 2: valuable keeps that I could ever have. And so you
Speaker 2: know that innovation, Like for us, it was really simple, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: why would you not want to put a patch on
Speaker 2: someone's jersey sticking into a car to make this a
Speaker 2: one on one card? But no one did that until
Speaker 2: we created it. And by the way, it's already live.
Speaker 2: We came up with the idea this past December. It
Speaker 2: was it was live in April with all baseball players.
Speaker 2: Is going to be three to four hundred baseball player's
Speaker 2: debut this year, you know, with this debut patch that
Speaker 2: we put into a one on one card. So that's
Speaker 2: just like one of dozens of examples of innovations because
Speaker 2: you have to be aggressive, like we have to be
Speaker 2: great entrepreneurs, we have to push whatever we do.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, what I love about that though, for everyone
Speaker 1: who's listening is I think we're stuck in this world
Speaker 1: now that believes that all innovation has to be digital
Speaker 1: or technological or virtual or some sort of you know AI,
Speaker 1: whereas this is like the most tangible physical change, but
Speaker 1: it's still so valuable because it's what people want.
Speaker 2: Look, we're three business there. First business where we started
Speaker 2: is what we call fin ex Commerce. That's our merchandise business.
Speaker 2: We own Lids, the hat retailer. We own Mitchell Nas,
Speaker 2: We own Fanatics, which operates you know, obviously all of
Speaker 2: the different league you know, the NFL shop, then BA store,
Speaker 2: and we sell you know, more than six billion hours
Speaker 2: of mostly fan apparel and headwear. Okay about you know,
Speaker 2: you know, more than one hundred million unit sub merchandise
Speaker 2: a year. That's a very physical business. Okay, but AI
Speaker 2: is helping us to do things more effectively in the
Speaker 2: collectible's business. AI is going to help us to be
Speaker 2: more effective. And then our third business is the online
Speaker 2: sports better than I gaming business. So you know, for me,
Speaker 2: we still do a lot of physical things, but there's
Speaker 2: so many things in the digital world that help us
Speaker 2: to be better.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, but I love that collaboration and thinking about
Speaker 1: it that way because sometimes the greatest value to someone
Speaker 1: is a physical change. But you're learning that through the AI.
Speaker 2: I still want to wear my Kobe jersey, Yeah exactly,
Speaker 2: exactly this, I want my Bronz card.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the same thing I'm still buying. I support
Speaker 1: Manchester United, That's that's my soccer team, and I'm still
Speaker 1: buying you know, soccer jerseys every single year.
Speaker 2: We appreciate that because that's a fanatics next store.
Speaker 1: Even though I absolutely even though we absolutely suck right now,
Speaker 1: but it's you know, but.
Speaker 2: That's what's sports fans about it. Sometimes you great years
Speaker 2: and you get you're getting those championships, and other times
Speaker 2: you're gonna suck and you gotta stay with your feel
Speaker 2: the pain.
Speaker 1: I'm a real fan now. I grew up as a
Speaker 1: glue hunter because we just want everything. And now I'm
Speaker 1: going through real fandom of ten.
Speaker 2: We're gonna test you now, We're gonna see what you're
Speaker 2: made of. But you really committed to man United here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's I'm being tested right now, being perfect.
Speaker 1: But we were talking about people not being entrepreneurship not
Speaker 1: being tired when you started. When you look at it today,
Speaker 1: now it's become the cool, sexy, interesting, fascinating thing for
Speaker 1: people to want to try. It's not necessarily things people
Speaker 1: are good at like you said you were, It's not
Speaker 1: necessarily a skill that we honor or give it the
Speaker 1: kudosk that it deserves. What are the mistakes people are
Speaker 1: making when they think about being an entrepreneur today?
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, entrepreneurialism isn't for everybody. But if
Speaker 2: you think it's for yourself, you better go out there
Speaker 2: and try it and put your best foot forward. For me, Look,
Speaker 2: the biggest mistakes I see people make in building a
Speaker 2: business are kind of a couple of common themes. One is,
Speaker 2: first you have like are you even going to take
Speaker 2: the app bat? So many people tell me I've got
Speaker 2: this great idea, but like I don't want to hear
Speaker 2: about but like, let's go for it. Let's see if
Speaker 2: you have an idea you want to do something.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I love the story you were just telling me before
Speaker 2: we went on here that you came over here and
Speaker 2: you know, you work one place for six months and
Speaker 2: then you're like, I want to go out and do this,
Speaker 2: and you went out and did it. Like part of
Speaker 2: being an entrepreneurs to have the courage to fail, Like
Speaker 2: you just have to go out there and try it.
Speaker 2: And by the way, when you fail, which many times
Speaker 2: you will, you're dont learn from that failure. You're going
Speaker 2: to grow from that failure. You think the best. You
Speaker 2: talked about Kobe being your favorite, you know athlete, Well,
Speaker 2: guess what, how many times did he fail? And then
Speaker 2: he got better and he pushed through it. And so
Speaker 2: that's what being an entrepreneur is. So from my perspective,
Speaker 2: it's really all about first and foremost. If you have
Speaker 2: something you want to do, if you believe in it,
Speaker 2: go for it. Don't worry about whether you succeed or not.
Speaker 2: Go out and take the swing. And if guess what
Speaker 2: if you strike out, if you fail, just go back again.
Speaker 2: And I know some people going to say, oh, well,
Speaker 2: he's really successful now, so it's easy to say, but
Speaker 2: I gotta tell you something. I've like, I've seen death
Speaker 2: in its eyes. You know, I've Almo has gone bankrupt
Speaker 2: multiple times. You know, I've had epic failures and every
Speaker 2: one of those led me to be better than what
Speaker 2: I do. So that's my first thing. Second thing I'd
Speaker 2: say is you need great people around you, Like whether
Speaker 2: it's great people you're learning from that you want to
Speaker 2: be a sponge from, whether it's you build a great
Speaker 2: team to do what you do, like I know for
Speaker 2: fanatics script eighteen thousand people that get up and go
Speaker 2: to bed obsessed with how do we improve the fan
Speaker 2: experience each day? But like I collect and work with
Speaker 2: the best people on the planet. Like, if you don't
Speaker 2: work with great people, you will fail. Like you can't
Speaker 2: win a championship if you don't have great talent, but
Speaker 2: that talent also works, needs to work together. And then
Speaker 2: the last thing, and this will sound corny, but like,
Speaker 2: have fun in what you do. Like I love what
Speaker 2: I do. I have the greatest job of the planet.
Speaker 2: I get to wake up, you know, work eighteen hours
Speaker 2: a day, go to bed thinking about you know what's next.
Speaker 2: I dream about my work nearly every day. Like I'm
Speaker 2: having work dreams all the time because I'm obsessed with
Speaker 2: what I'm doing. It's like it's fun. It's like I
Speaker 2: should pinch myself. It's so awesome what I get to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, no, I love hearing that. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know what's fascinating to me as well with being
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur. You know, my story was very different to
Speaker 1: finding my way into entrepreneurship. I grew up thinking I
Speaker 1: had to have a steady job because that's how I
Speaker 1: was raised by good Indian immigrant parents who made me
Speaker 1: academically ASTU and so I was a straight A student,
Speaker 1: did first class at you like I was always good
Speaker 1: at that. And then I got into a job afterwards,
Speaker 1: after my own detour, and when I finally got into
Speaker 1: a job, I was just like, this doesn't feel right,
Speaker 1: Like this doesn't feel like this is going to use
Speaker 1: my skills to the best of my ability. This doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like I'm going to propel and do well and
Speaker 1: become my best version of myself. It wasn't about money
Speaker 1: or what I thought I could win at. It was
Speaker 1: I just don't feel this is gonna complete me or
Speaker 1: make me feel like I'm winning in the way that
Speaker 1: I can.
Speaker 2: Listen, the most important thing is enjoying what you do
Speaker 2: every day. And I'm muchay saying I know a lot
Speaker 2: of people that have been really successful financially and they're miserable,
Speaker 2: you know what. They don't love what they do every day.
Speaker 2: They're not happy. Like for me, I don't think about
Speaker 2: financial success. I think about like just loving what I'm
Speaker 2: doing now. Financial success can tell you are you winning losing?
Speaker 2: That's your report card, that's the scoreboard. Right. Good financial
Speaker 2: results means you're winning. Bad financial results means you're not
Speaker 2: winning in the current moment. But for me, like I
Speaker 2: just want to love what I do every day, I
Speaker 2: can agree with you more.
Speaker 1: I want to wake up and do what I love,
Speaker 1: which is why I do this, because I get to
Speaker 1: sit down with fascinating people, pick people's minds.
Speaker 2: And then we each learn from each other.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, And by the way.
Speaker 2: I guarantee you I'll learn, I'll leave you today I
Speaker 2: haven't picked up some things from you, and you'll leave
Speaker 2: from here. That's the way it works. That's the way.
Speaker 2: Like we should all be students of each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Who's who's the randommest person you've learned from?
Speaker 1: I wonder, like, who's the most curious, random, intriguing person
Speaker 1: that we wouldn't expect for you to learn from, Like
Speaker 1: not like a business mogul or you know, someone like that,
Speaker 1: but someone you're like, you know what that person I
Speaker 1: didn't expect to learn from them, but I did. Is
Speaker 1: there someone like that comes to mind?
Speaker 2: I could give you a thousands examples. I mean, I
Speaker 2: could tell you when I used to be part of
Speaker 2: the ownership group of the Philadelphia Sixers. I'd walk through
Speaker 2: the arena, and I would ask lots of arena workers
Speaker 2: what's going on here today? You know what's working, what's
Speaker 2: not working? Like, you know, you can pick up things
Speaker 2: from everybody. I could. I could walk through the street,
Speaker 2: look at what someone's wearing and say, hey, where'd you
Speaker 2: buy that? Is that a good? Do you like that?
Speaker 2: You're not like that? Like I'm always asking questions, so
Speaker 2: you know, for me, I mean that's pretty random if
Speaker 2: you just walk up in the street and ask somebody,
Speaker 2: you know, where'd you buy that? Why did you buy it?
Speaker 2: Do you love that? So I'm always picking things up.
Speaker 2: I'm watching the way trends are changing with people. I'm
Speaker 2: probably the most unique thing about me is the diversity
Speaker 2: of friends that I have, And I'm learning from the
Speaker 2: people around me every single day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's the only way you understand the
Speaker 1: pulse of human behavior. Right. It's like asking questions watching patents.
Speaker 1: I think patent watching is an ability, whether it's an algorithm,
Speaker 1: whether it's the stock market, whether it's you know, crypto
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. For people, watching patents is such
Speaker 1: an unbelievable skill. Would you say that's a skill that
Speaker 1: you've honed and developed and built well.
Speaker 2: I think it's a really important skill in business because
Speaker 2: I think it's very predictive of the future. Okay, So
Speaker 2: the reality is when someone comes in and I'm interviewing
Speaker 2: a top executive for a role one of our businesses,
Speaker 2: and they could seem great, and then I'm going to
Speaker 2: go out and I'm never going to ask anybody for reference. Ever.
Speaker 2: I've never asked somebody, hey, can you tell me who
Speaker 2: to call?
Speaker 1: It?
Speaker 2: Like, that's the you ask me for reference to myself.
Speaker 2: I call each other's people and say, hey, I gave
Speaker 2: you a reference. Make sure you say great things about me. Right.
Speaker 2: So the reality is I'll interview somebody, the first thing
Speaker 2: I do is if I like them. As soon as
Speaker 2: they leave, I go out and I start calling people
Speaker 2: that I knew we had in common to recognize patterns. Okay,
Speaker 2: because to me, fifty percents to interview and fifty percent
Speaker 2: is what I learned behind the scenes. And that's probably
Speaker 2: the more important fifty percent because someone can blow me
Speaker 2: away and then you know, you'll find out one minute
Speaker 2: that person sucks, that person people don't like working with them,
Speaker 2: or you can find out that person was a little
Speaker 2: bit understated, but they are beasts. You know, they've got
Speaker 2: huge followership, they're super smart, they've got an unrelenting work ethic.
Speaker 2: So to me, pattern recognition is everything I use in
Speaker 2: everything that I do. By the way, I use pattern
Speaker 2: recognition when I go play blackjack with my friends. You know,
Speaker 2: there's three types of cards you're gonna get cars. You're
Speaker 2: either going to be you know, you're either streaking hot,
Speaker 2: you're streaking cold, or you're kind of in between. And
Speaker 2: you know, when you're cold, you should not do what
Speaker 2: sometimes I'll do if I'm misbehaved, which is be aggressive
Speaker 2: when you're cold, because you got a pattern of going on.
Speaker 2: So you gotta recognize patterns whatever you do.
Speaker 1: I find it fascinating how super powerful entrepreneurs higher and
Speaker 1: fire and recruit and you know, reward and retain people. Well,
Speaker 1: what have you found when you're interviewing someone? I feel
Speaker 1: like you must have interviewed so many people over the
Speaker 1: years for huge positions, small positions. In the beginning, what
Speaker 1: are you looking for and how are you finding out?
Speaker 1: Apart from the second part, which I love calling out
Speaker 1: people that you have in common, what are you asking?
Speaker 1: What are you looking for and how are you making
Speaker 1: sure you find it in that very date like format.
Speaker 2: So let me say first of all, and this will
Speaker 2: I think shock you. I still probably spend ten to
Speaker 2: twenty percent of a seventy to ninety hour work week
Speaker 2: interviewing people. Okay, So I am a beast on finding
Speaker 2: great talent within our companies because to me, you can't
Speaker 2: win without great talent. So it is probably the thing
Speaker 2: or one of the things that I spend the most
Speaker 2: time one is the quest for incredible talent. I'm looking
Speaker 2: for first, does someone have the subject matter expertise and
Speaker 2: the intellect to be successful in what we want them
Speaker 2: to do? And then two do they have the leadership skills?
Speaker 2: Because generally I'm interviewing people that are either going to
Speaker 2: work for me or someone who's gonna work for someone
Speaker 2: who I work with. So let's say the top fifty
Speaker 2: to one hundred people within our our eighteen thousand people.
Speaker 2: So I'm looking for people that are going to be
Speaker 2: real leaders, that are gonna, you know, share the same
Speaker 2: values that we share. I'm looking for people that can
Speaker 2: be with us for a long period of time, Like
Speaker 2: I don't want people that want to come in and
Speaker 2: be with us for three years. I want people that
Speaker 2: want to, like I like, people want to be with
Speaker 2: us and build their careers with us for maybe their
Speaker 2: entire life, you know. We want people that are just
Speaker 2: going to be you know, and also people that are
Speaker 2: going to like just they're gonna figure how to win,
Speaker 2: They're gonna put it on the shoulders, They're gonna be unrelenting,
Speaker 2: Like that's my personality. Like, there are so many things
Speaker 2: that I should not have succeeded at, but I have
Speaker 2: because I won't quit, okay, and so so I think
Speaker 2: those are some of the things that I just rambled
Speaker 2: to you that I care about.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I love those And I guess the thing
Speaker 1: about not quitting is really interesting, right, because you've got
Speaker 1: this unrelenting You can see it in the way you
Speaker 1: speak and your eyes, Like I've just spent a few
Speaker 1: moments with you, we've never met before today, and I
Speaker 1: can fully see that it is just at the core
Speaker 1: of who you are. And you probably find that you
Speaker 1: can push people and they may not be able to
Speaker 1: go as far every time because they may not have
Speaker 1: that same energy in them. So how have you found
Speaker 1: that balance of like seeing someone who you know has
Speaker 1: the potential. You know, they have the skills, but it's
Speaker 1: almost like they're like Michael, I already went seven times
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, dude, we're gonna go seventeen because
Speaker 1: I know at seventeen we're gonna get there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the people that are in my real
Speaker 2: inner circle, you know, I have six key executives that
Speaker 2: I work with day in and day out. The people
Speaker 2: that run my three businesses that the online sports betting
Speaker 2: and I gaming business, the commerce business which is merchandise,
Speaker 2: and the collectible's business which is trading cards and memobilia.
Speaker 2: These businesses, and then my three corporate executives, like they
Speaker 2: have that same mentality. I wouldn't want to work with
Speaker 2: anyone that didn't have that mentality of like, you know,
Speaker 2: because they're saying the culture for the entire eighteen thousand
Speaker 2: you know, employees at Fanatics and so to me, people
Speaker 2: don't share our core values. You know, they don't believe
Speaker 2: in what we believe in. This is probably not gonna
Speaker 2: be a right fit. They could be a great human being,
Speaker 2: a great individual, just not be right for us.
Speaker 1: Do you ever take a break? Have you ever taken
Speaker 1: a break?
Speaker 2: To me, I don't understand work life balance. It's just
Speaker 2: it's not who I am. So I'm not gonna apologize
Speaker 2: for it. And I know I sound like if people
Speaker 2: could listen to say, like this guy's feel a little
Speaker 2: bit deranged, But I am who I am. I know,
Speaker 2: like I know what I'm good at and I know
Speaker 2: what I like doing.
Speaker 1: I mean, it made sure you, but I fully relate
Speaker 1: to it, like to me, it's I you know, I
Speaker 1: think people I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get more people to, you know, try
Speaker 2: to get more people to not look at me like I'm.
Speaker 1: Crazy, and I would agree with I feel exactly the
Speaker 1: same way. Like this week, and this is my average
Speaker 1: normal week. I have morning hikes where I'm out with
Speaker 1: people that I work with, but I love them and
Speaker 1: I enjoy their company. They're not people I have to
Speaker 1: work with that people I enjoy working with. So I'm
Speaker 1: having a hike meeting in the morning, which is you know,
Speaker 1: seven thirty am. Then I'm at work, whether I'm doing
Speaker 1: this or whatever I'm up to when I'm recording meditation,
Speaker 1: so sometimes i'm alone in a studio and sometimes I'm
Speaker 1: with people. And then I have meetings and then I've
Speaker 1: been having dinner meetings too, and I love it. I
Speaker 1: won't have it any other way. I've had the best interactions.
Speaker 1: I'm getting to know the best people. I know their families.
Speaker 1: I know they're getting to know their kids, their spouses,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And to me, it's like, this is
Speaker 1: what I want life to be. I actually don't look
Speaker 1: at life as work and life like I don't have
Speaker 1: that disconnect. And I actually think that when you look
Speaker 1: at life as a disconnect, that's when you think you're
Speaker 1: taking away from the other.
Speaker 2: And I also peach do what you love to do. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it almost breaks those barriers down totally.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, So I'm actually more on your side than
Speaker 1: people may think. I'm a big fan of having my
Speaker 1: daily routines and habits that make me the best version
Speaker 1: of myself, Like obviously meditation, working out. There are certain
Speaker 1: non negotiables. Are there things in your day that you
Speaker 1: do that are your routines that may not be those things,
Speaker 1: but things that you're like, you know, this one thing
Speaker 1: that I do per day, this makes me feel great.
Speaker 2: It's probably centered around work. If I'm going to be out,
Speaker 2: that's cool it with you. I was always pleasantly plump
Speaker 2: until my journal came out. So now that my journals
Speaker 2: came out, I've gone from two ten to once six.
Speaker 2: I'd say working out is more important to me. You know,
Speaker 2: when you're two ten, it's harder to work out. When
Speaker 2: you're one hundred and sixties, much easier to work out.
Speaker 2: So you live here in the top of Runion, and
Speaker 2: you know for me, you know, kind of hiking to
Speaker 2: the top of Runion. You know, I've done that once
Speaker 2: already this week. We're gonna do it again tomorrow. Like
Speaker 2: I love doing it, like it's a it's a blast
Speaker 2: for me. Working out is actually something that is becoming
Speaker 2: good for me because it's the one thing that lets
Speaker 2: me get a little bit of a mental break. Putting
Speaker 2: my phone down sometimes I can be so addicted to
Speaker 2: my phone. It's just like I just need like sometimes
Speaker 2: at dinner when you know my family has dinner, just
Speaker 2: like put my phone down for twenty minutes. That's a
Speaker 2: good thing. So I'd say things that have helped me
Speaker 2: of late have been you know, getting those three to
Speaker 2: four workouts in per week, because it does give me
Speaker 2: some mental clarity. And I'd say putting my phone down
Speaker 2: twenty or thirty minutes a day when I'm just not
Speaker 2: going to look at it and say, okay, like give
Speaker 2: me a mental break, because I think you could just
Speaker 2: become so obsessed that it is almost it's bad for you,
Speaker 2: and then you become less effective. Probably the biggest routine
Speaker 2: I have of we say, like, let's keep it real.
Speaker 2: It's going to be the people that I work close with.
Speaker 2: It's talking to them all the time. I always just
Speaker 2: like peeling the lighters back on what we're doing. So,
Speaker 2: like any of my top leaders, I'm on the phone
Speaker 2: with on zooms with meeting with in person all the
Speaker 2: time because that's the way we're just like building the
Speaker 2: best business.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, and I do believe that it's what it
Speaker 1: takes for the level of success that you've achieved. I wonder,
Speaker 1: you know, if you if you google your net worth
Speaker 1: it says eleven billion. It could be more. Probably is
Speaker 1: how do you define how much you're worth?
Speaker 2: I don't I'll tell you a story. I probably shouldn't say. God,
Speaker 2: this is blowing somebody. I should blowup it. But like
Speaker 2: Forbes reached out and they said, hey, we want to
Speaker 2: put you on the cover of Forbes for the Forbes
Speaker 2: four hundred. I'm like, no, I don't want to be
Speaker 2: known for my net worth. I want to be known
Speaker 2: for building a great company. By the way, there's so
Speaker 2: many things with a company that we suck at that
Speaker 2: we need to be better at, Like I want to
Speaker 2: be Like the way I look at it is I'm
Speaker 2: a big startup, and I want to make sure that
Speaker 2: I'm always fighting to be better in everything we do
Speaker 2: and everything we do. I want to build what we
Speaker 2: make better for the fan, and we have so much
Speaker 2: to do to accomplish that. So I don't want to
Speaker 2: be known about money. I don't want to be known.
Speaker 2: I want to be known about making the world a
Speaker 2: better place, for making my company better. Those are, honestly,
Speaker 2: you know, the two things I'm maniacally focused on.
Speaker 1: I believe it. I believe it, I genuinely do.
Speaker 2: And I, by the way, who can Like I'm not
Speaker 2: in a competition for like it's irrelevant, Like my life
Speaker 2: is not changing financially based on anything that happens going forward.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm fortunate that I'm in a nice position today.
Speaker 2: So like, to me, the thing that gets me most
Speaker 2: exciting is winning in business, because that's my sport. That's
Speaker 2: what I'm good at. And so I look at each
Speaker 2: business and I look at not all the things we
Speaker 2: do right, I look at all the things we do
Speaker 2: wrong and all the things we can be better at.
Speaker 2: And so I'm always saying, how can we improve in
Speaker 2: everything we do? Because guess what, there are a lot
Speaker 2: of things we need to be a lot better at.
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm focused on. And then, you know,
Speaker 2: upfront you talked about kind of giving back is interesting.
Speaker 2: I never ever cared about making a difference in the world,
Speaker 2: and so I had an event in twenty seventeen that
Speaker 2: did change my perspective. Before that, I would just always
Speaker 2: write checks. You came and said, hey, I'm doing this. Hey,
Speaker 2: let me give you a check to shut you up
Speaker 2: as quickly as I could because I didn't care, just
Speaker 2: want to focus on work. And then my eyes got open,
Speaker 2: which is what people say, like, hey, should I be
Speaker 2: behind this that? I said, do what's all that? To
Speaker 2: do what's real? And you know, for me, that's kind
Speaker 2: of how my life is kind of you know, evolved.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And why was it I believe it was Meet
Speaker 1: Miller introduced you to criminal justice.
Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't. I mean, everyone knows the story at
Speaker 2: this point, you know, you know, meet God, you know,
Speaker 2: sent to prison for two to four years for popping
Speaker 2: a wheel on a motorcycle.
Speaker 1: He had.
Speaker 2: The smartest thing he did for both of us was say, hey,
Speaker 2: can you come to court with me that day? I
Speaker 2: want you see what happens when a black person goes
Speaker 2: to court. I didn't, like even understand what he was saying.
Speaker 2: And then, you know, I watched him get sent to
Speaker 2: prison for two to four years for not committing a
Speaker 2: crime for popping a wheel on a motorcycle. Like that
Speaker 2: was the most uncomfortable thing that's ever happened to my body,
Speaker 2: because it was like, I'm used to being in control.
Speaker 2: I'm a strong business leader. I'm used to leading, and
Speaker 2: now I had a judge who sent him to prison
Speaker 2: for two to four years for not committing a crime
Speaker 2: for popping a wheel and a motorcycle. And it was
Speaker 2: like the most out of body experience I ever had.
Speaker 2: And so once he ultimately got out of prison and
Speaker 2: we started the reform alliance, you know, for me me,
Speaker 2: you know, I learned a really valuable lesson because a
Speaker 2: lot of people told me, don't get involved with this.
Speaker 2: Don't get involved with him. You're gonna hurt your business,
Speaker 2: You're gonna hurt the Sixers. And I just went with
Speaker 2: my instincts, which is like this my brother and like
Speaker 2: he needs help him. By the way, Jay Z and
Speaker 2: desra Press from Rock Nation stepped up in a huge way,
Speaker 2: like you know it. It was kind of us collectively.
Speaker 2: But like I've had a couple experiences in the last
Speaker 2: four or five years where we've done things with people
Speaker 2: told us would be bad for business, bad for us,
Speaker 2: and we didn't care. We do what we thought was
Speaker 2: the right thing, and you always get paid back in karma.
Speaker 2: Like that is something I've learned in the last five years,
Speaker 2: probably the biggest thing I've learned in the last five years.
Speaker 2: You know, don't worry about what people tell you. It's
Speaker 2: going to be the right actime you do what you
Speaker 2: think is right. If you do what's right, you know
Speaker 2: it generally works out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, And I'm glad you've repeated that story. There
Speaker 1: may be some of alreadyence who may or may not
Speaker 1: be away, so thank you for sharing that. But and
Speaker 1: I wanted them to hear it from you because it
Speaker 1: is it's so interesting when something becomes so personal, when
Speaker 1: it happens to someone that's so close to you, the
Speaker 1: issue almost becomes so much more relatable and easy to
Speaker 1: access for you. What have been some of the most
Speaker 1: Like I loved what you said, Like the moment you
Speaker 1: walked in here, I was telling you how much I've
Speaker 1: appreciated the impact work you're doing. And you're like, we're
Speaker 1: not doing it fast enough, there's more to do. You know,
Speaker 1: well we're not, And I love that, Like, that's exactly
Speaker 1: the energy you need to have. So walk me through
Speaker 1: the winds that have been there that have shown you
Speaker 1: that you're doing the right thing, and then walk me
Speaker 1: through one are the issues that you're still trying to
Speaker 1: solve and figure out.
Speaker 2: Well, look, the interesting thing was when Meek got sent
Speaker 2: to prison in November twenty seventeen, just about everybody I
Speaker 2: knew said, do not get involved in this. This wee
Speaker 2: we fleed poorly on the Sixers, This we fleed poorly
Speaker 2: on fanatics. Less people will buy tickets and they're going
Speaker 2: to see you helping a criminal, and so dasire pre
Speaker 2: As from Rock Nation myself. You know, we spent a
Speaker 2: lot of the next six months you know, working every
Speaker 2: day to get him out of prison. And once we
Speaker 2: got him out of prison, you know, Meek said to me,
Speaker 2: And I said to Meek, like, look, this is testinon.
Speaker 2: You got sent to prison because you were the one
Speaker 2: anointed to help fix the system. And I would if
Speaker 2: you would have asked me before November twelfth, twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: when he got sent to prison, if you would have
Speaker 2: said to me, what do I care about? From a
Speaker 2: charity perspective? Who was writing checks to get people out
Speaker 2: of my office as quickly as possible. I did not
Speaker 2: care about any issues. But what Meeke used always say
Speaker 2: to me, Michael, this is a normal day for black America.
Speaker 2: And so you know that he had been sent to
Speaker 2: prison for a technical probation violation, it was easy for
Speaker 2: us to say, we have to change the probation and
Speaker 2: parole system. That's what we set out to do. The
Speaker 2: interesting thing was when we finally decided to do this,
Speaker 2: which was I guess finally when we did it. Immediately
Speaker 2: I was trying to figure out how to come up
Speaker 2: with a goal, because to me, you have to come
Speaker 2: up with big, bold goals. And this speaks to entrepreneurialism.
Speaker 2: And not taking a kind of charitable approach to things.
Speaker 2: I asked a friend of mine who I don't want
Speaker 2: a name, but someone I have a huge respect for.
Speaker 2: I said, you know, how many people should we try
Speaker 2: to get out of probation parle. They said, well, how
Speaker 2: many people in the system? I said four and a
Speaker 2: half million. They said we'll go with ten thousand. That's
Speaker 2: a really safe number. I said ten thousand. Let's go
Speaker 2: for a million. So we're in this less than five years.
Speaker 2: We've passed seventeen bills in eleven states and created a
Speaker 2: pathway for seven hundred thousand people to get off of
Speaker 2: probation and parrol who shouldn't be on it. And by
Speaker 2: the way, there were four and a half million people
Speaker 2: on probation proole when we started. There's three point eight
Speaker 2: million people ten And what's proven this really important understand
Speaker 2: If you keep someone on probation or parole too long,
Speaker 2: you entrap them in the criminal justice system, and then
Speaker 2: what you do is you actually create a less safe
Speaker 2: outcome for neighborhoods and for environments versus. If people serve
Speaker 2: their time, have their appropriate amount of rehabilitation, you know
Speaker 2: they're on probation Burrow for the right amount of time,
Speaker 2: then they're going to go out they're going to make,
Speaker 2: you know, a positive impact on them world. So Meek
Speaker 2: had been on probation between the time served and time
Speaker 2: left eighteen years now. In California where we're doing this today,
Speaker 2: the governor as signed it in one of the first
Speaker 2: bills that we did with the avenue, which was amazing,
Speaker 2: is a one year cap on misdemeanor and a two
Speaker 2: year cap on felonies. And that was like breakthrough legislation
Speaker 2: that we worked on together, you know, with many people
Speaker 2: to bring together to make that happen in the state
Speaker 2: of California. It's one of the best things we've done
Speaker 2: on the reform line. So my point is like, that's huge.
Speaker 2: We turn this negative into a positive. We then came
Speaker 2: up with a really bold goal that people thought we
Speaker 2: were nuts when I told people million people, Like everyone
Speaker 2: looked at me like I have seven heads, But I'm like,
Speaker 2: what's the worst that happens? Like, so we get three
Speaker 2: hundred thousand people, four undred thousand people, I Alstoll think
Speaker 2: we won. I don't care you want to say we
Speaker 2: fail because we didn't get the million. And by the way,
Speaker 2: now we're gonna we're gonna surpass the million.
Speaker 1: I think, wow, that's incredible, and you're so right. Most
Speaker 1: of us, when we set a bold goal, whether it's
Speaker 1: to make an impact or whether it's in business, we're
Speaker 1: actually just worrying about what everyone will think if we
Speaker 1: don't hit that goal.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna give you a great example. So today
Speaker 2: at Fanatics, you know, we built a pretty big business
Speaker 2: in our commerce business, which is merchandise. That's where I started,
Speaker 2: That's where a lot of people know it's from. By
Speaker 2: the way, we still have so much to do to
Speaker 2: be better, so many things to improve the consumer experience,
Speaker 2: to innovate more product. We're a leader in that business.
Speaker 2: In the collectible's business, we're a real leader today. In
Speaker 2: the online sports ban a eye gaming business, we're just starting. Okay,
Speaker 2: we're gonna be Fanatic Sports book just launched earlier this year,
Speaker 2: will be basically in just about every legal state by
Speaker 2: the end of this year under the Fanatics brand with
Speaker 2: one wallet. I woke up and our guys we talk
Speaker 2: about being number three, like you know, hey, Fandels number one,
Speaker 2: DraftKings number two, we're number three, and you know, sorry,
Speaker 2: we aspired to be number three. Today we're like number eight.
Speaker 2: We're just started. And I woke up about three weeks
Speaker 2: ago and I called our CEO, Machen, who's amazing as Matt, like,
Speaker 2: we got our goal needs to be number one, by
Speaker 2: the way, Maybe we're accomplish it, maybe we won't. Maybe
Speaker 2: we want to be successful at all. Like the jury's out.
Speaker 2: We're investing in a billion and a half dollars to
Speaker 2: try to be the top player. Okay, but like, I
Speaker 2: don't want to play for number three. Number three is
Speaker 2: a loser. I want to play for number one. And
Speaker 2: so many people are gonna say to me, so many
Speaker 2: people listen to this, we'll be like, wait, you want
Speaker 2: to be number one to Fandueling DraftKings, an online sports
Speaker 2: bean in eye gaming. I'm declaring right now the first
Speaker 2: time my public says this, I want to be number one.
Speaker 2: I have no idea whether I have any chance of
Speaker 2: that accomplishment, but I can tell you what I'm not
Speaker 2: waking up to try to be number three.
Speaker 1: That's a loser, and that's what's got you here. So
Speaker 1: you feel convinced that that's what it was. What was
Speaker 1: the do you remember the fast big goal you ever.
Speaker 2: Set I do. In two thousand and nine, I made
Speaker 2: a goal I said to all our team, I said
Speaker 2: that I want to build. We were two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty million dollars in revenue. Twenty ten. I said, one
Speaker 2: day we could be a billion dollars in revenue. That
Speaker 2: division six billion dollars today. Okay. I said one day
Speaker 2: we could be a billion dollars. Okay. Then four years
Speaker 2: later I said, one day we could be five billion dollars. Okay.
Speaker 2: And we're only just trying to come up with goals
Speaker 2: for just like to try to measure, you know, success
Speaker 2: or failure. But I love come up with bold goals,
Speaker 2: and I don't care whether I accomplish them or fail
Speaker 2: I care about come up with bold goals to work
Speaker 2: against and then making huge progress against them, whether I
Speaker 2: accomplish them or not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the point is you're more likely to challenge yourself
Speaker 1: enough to come up with better strategies, more products, better
Speaker 1: customer service, Like you're actually just going to improve drastically
Speaker 1: towards that level.
Speaker 2: If you set goals that are easy to accomplish, then
Speaker 2: you're actually saying you want to fail to start with.
Speaker 2: If you come up with bold goals and by it's easier. Look,
Speaker 2: I know people going to say I'm an owner, it's
Speaker 2: easier to say that as an owner. Okay. And maybe
Speaker 2: sometimes you set goals up that you say to yourself
Speaker 2: because you don't want to tell your boss, like I
Speaker 2: always Okay, what are you talry about? Here's the budgeting
Speaker 2: goal I'm giving you. But now let me tell you
Speaker 2: the real goal that I have. Okay. And so I
Speaker 2: like rallying people against big, audacious, you know, hard your
Speaker 2: achieved goals, because I think you're just gonna accomplish more.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. How does how does this energy kind of
Speaker 1: over to Michael's love life? Like, how does this kind
Speaker 1: of how does how does Michael in love change? From
Speaker 1: my line?
Speaker 2: I mean you have to ask Camille that. I think
Speaker 2: what Camille would say is she's incredibly supportive of what
Speaker 2: I do. She knows is what I love doing. You know,
Speaker 2: she's the most incredible mother in the planet. We have.
Speaker 2: So I have a seventeen year old daughter and that
Speaker 2: I have a three ye old one year old With Camille,
Speaker 2: you know, she puts as much energies I put into work,
Speaker 2: she puts into being a mom. And I think that's
Speaker 2: what makes us great together. Would I say that, you know,
Speaker 2: Amo is the most available person know does she want
Speaker 2: to you know, kill me multiple times a week? Probably yes,
Speaker 2: But she also knows this what makes me mean what
Speaker 2: I love to do, and you know she loves being
Speaker 2: the greatest mom in the world. We have a great relationship.
Speaker 2: But you know, would you call my personal life or
Speaker 2: our personal life perfect? Definitely? Not because I work like
Speaker 2: an animal.
Speaker 1: No, of course not. Of course, no, no, No one
Speaker 1: has the perfect personal or professional level. But did you
Speaker 1: The reason why I ask is, you know, it's really interesting.
Speaker 1: I always feel like, you know, so much can be
Speaker 1: solved at the point of connection. What I mean by
Speaker 1: that is, I you know, my wife's a busy person.
Speaker 1: I'm a busy person, but i've you know, I was
Speaker 1: saying to some of my team the other day, I'm
Speaker 1: really grateful that my wife has never said to me
Speaker 1: in the last ten years that we've been together, you
Speaker 1: don't spend enough time with me. It's because she knows
Speaker 1: who I am, she understands how I work, she knows
Speaker 1: I make time, I am present when I'm there. But
Speaker 1: she gets me, like she really gets me, and she
Speaker 1: got me when we got together. Yes, I was very
Speaker 1: not successful when we met, but she gets me and
Speaker 1: she's seen that energy grow and so she loves the time.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I don't say the same to
Speaker 1: her either, as she never hears from me like you
Speaker 1: don't spend enough time with me, or you're not around
Speaker 1: if she's busy and she has to move. Did you
Speaker 1: know that when you met Camille? How did you set
Speaker 1: that up? How did that become real? How do you
Speaker 1: get to know you that well? Because I feel like
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, the way you work, the
Speaker 1: way I work, the way certain people work, it would
Speaker 1: be unbearable and it would be a deal breaker. But
Speaker 1: then it's really hard to also have an amazing life
Speaker 1: and build everything you want to build. Right, It's so,
Speaker 1: how did you I'm just intrigued as to how you
Speaker 1: had that conversation early days.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure if we had the conversation and
Speaker 2: it kind of just grew into what it is. I
Speaker 2: think the same thing for Camille or my older daughter Kylie,
Speaker 2: they would both say they wish that I were more available,
Speaker 2: more present, but they also respect and learn from my
Speaker 2: work ethic and what I do, and I think you
Speaker 2: know it kind of works itself out in the end.
Speaker 2: But you know, different than you I do here for
Speaker 2: both Kamie and Kylie. You know you don't have enough
Speaker 2: time for me. You're not available enough, And sometimes that's
Speaker 2: a really good pridecy, like Okay, you know, put your
Speaker 2: phone down and turn the ringer off for half an hour.
Speaker 2: You know you don't always need to grab every call.
Speaker 2: And you know what my older daughter would always say
Speaker 2: to me, Kylie is like that, it's always somebody important,
Speaker 2: your oldest daughter, and Kamille would say to me, you
Speaker 2: know it's me, like just let it go for a
Speaker 2: little bit. So they actually help me whatever little balance
Speaker 2: I have I think I get from Camille and Kylie.
Speaker 1: I loved what you said, Like, you know, sometimes they
Speaker 1: say I need more time, but they also respect me.
Speaker 1: How do you reconcile that kind of dad guild that
Speaker 1: could come with that? Or and a lot of I'm
Speaker 1: not a father yet, but a lot of my friends
Speaker 1: you are. They'll say it's so painful watching your little girl.
Speaker 1: My friends who have little girls will say, it's so
Speaker 1: painful watching your little girls. Say, Daddy, just stay at
Speaker 1: home with me today, right, Like, how are you, how
Speaker 1: do you reconcile like this is good for them to
Speaker 1: see me work hard and I know when to like
Speaker 1: put my phone down, But how do you how do
Speaker 1: you make sense with you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, the good thing is my three year old
Speaker 2: and one year old have grown up with me like this,
Speaker 2: so and so did Kylie. By the way, they've all
Speaker 2: seen that work ethic. Look, Kylie, as everyone knows, my
Speaker 2: seventeen year old is with me, you know, all the time.
Speaker 2: She travels with me all the time. She's actually on
Speaker 2: a plane right now, she's about to land here in
Speaker 2: a few hours. So you know, you know, she's with
Speaker 2: me a lot. She's got a great you know, Kylie
Speaker 2: and Camil have a great relationship that they may have
Speaker 2: a support group you know together for the two of them. Again,
Speaker 2: it's me. Every family's different, every person's different, and everyone
Speaker 2: needs to do what works for them. And I think
Speaker 2: I do what works for me, and they do it
Speaker 2: works for them, and I think they appreciate it. I
Speaker 2: also know to be there when it really matters, and
Speaker 2: so for me, Kylie went through an experience earlier this
Speaker 2: year and she called me and had to do with college.
Speaker 2: She's like cursing me out. She's like, like I need
Speaker 2: you to help me figure this out right now. And
Speaker 2: it's about like get you good because Kylie's much smarter
Speaker 2: than me, but she's not, Like you know, she goes
Speaker 2: to the toughest school in Philadelphia, and she like she
Speaker 2: wanted like some help with certain things, and like I
Speaker 2: had to call around and figure out how to do
Speaker 2: that and learn and pull the layers back and ultimately
Speaker 2: figure out together. It's like when it really matters, like
Speaker 2: I'm always there and I'm good at figuring out what
Speaker 2: matters and what doesn't. And so I think that could
Speaker 2: be a superpower I have, which is how to prioritize.
Speaker 2: I am good at figuring out when am I really needed?
Speaker 2: When do I need to, like, you know, lock in
Speaker 2: and focus. It could be locking and focused on a
Speaker 2: really important business deal. It could be locking and focused
Speaker 2: on a really important moment for Camille or for Kylie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what what your daughters do for you? My sister
Speaker 1: does for me. She'd be like, stop being Jay shtty,
Speaker 1: just be my brother. Like you know, it's like that
Speaker 1: feeling of like stop giving me that advice, just be
Speaker 1: my brother, and like yeah, yeah, I get that from.
Speaker 2: Both of them all the time. My three year old
Speaker 2: romy I'm sure be giving me that's like within a
Speaker 2: year at time.
Speaker 1: And it's the best feeling, right. It's such a beautiful
Speaker 1: feeling because you know someone loves you and wants you
Speaker 1: to just be there for them.
Speaker 2: It's getting those moments which you can really appreciate, so
Speaker 2: you know, I try to try to get them when
Speaker 2: I can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Michael, that's what I'm trying to do on
Speaker 1: this podcast here. You know, I don't have a I
Speaker 1: don't think there is an ideal way to live. I
Speaker 1: don't think there is a perfect way to approach your problems.
Speaker 1: I think that what I like to do is I
Speaker 1: like to introduce people. This is kind of my whole
Speaker 1: hypothesis in life. If I can introduce people to as
Speaker 1: many diverse people as possible that have all in their
Speaker 1: own way, found purpose, impact and success, then people actually
Speaker 1: have a chance of saying, I like what they're saying,
Speaker 1: I'm going to run with that, or actually, you know what,
Speaker 1: I never thought about it like that because I find
Speaker 1: when I was growing up we're all exposed to the
Speaker 1: same set of people and the same set of ideas,
Speaker 1: and it was so hard to break that and it
Speaker 1: was only for me, obviously, my personal journey. When I
Speaker 1: met a monk at eighteen, I didn't know what monks were.
Speaker 1: I didn't care what monks were. I had no interest
Speaker 1: in anything spiritual. If I had never met a monk,
Speaker 1: I would never have gone down the path of life.
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 1: And so I'm always asking people who's your monk? And
Speaker 1: for some people, the monk will be you. And what
Speaker 1: I mean by that is they're going to get introduced
Speaker 1: to you and go, yeah, that's how I want to
Speaker 1: live my life. That resonates with me. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: It makes complete sense. I'm a huge believer in it,
Speaker 2: and I have Look, if you'd say what's the most
Speaker 2: unique thing about me, it's probably the diversification of the
Speaker 2: people around me. And I think I've built that boocause
Speaker 2: it's right for me because I'm learning from all these
Speaker 2: people around me. And so I've got this person actually
Speaker 2: a person owns a local hobby shop and it keeps
Speaker 2: up sending me these really long text messages and I
Speaker 2: actually keep meeting the sending back a voice and just say, hey, man,
Speaker 2: I actually appreciate your input. But I don't I barely read,
Speaker 2: Like I'm not that literate, Like you're left and I'm
Speaker 2: dead serious, Like I haven't read a book since ninth grade.
Speaker 2: The last book I read was in ninth grade. I
Speaker 2: read The Swish, the story about I don't know the
Speaker 2: story about pil Nate's the last time I read a book. Okay,
Speaker 2: So I'm not a good reader. I'm pretty dyslexic. Okay,
Speaker 2: So like the way I learned is by it like
Speaker 2: quick conversations. You know, you want me to recently, send
Speaker 2: me three lines and I'm actually gonna read it. You
Speaker 2: send me three paragraphs. I'm already I'm tuned out before
Speaker 2: I start. So it's like, that's what I'm saying. We
Speaker 2: all got to learn from each other what works for
Speaker 2: each other. And that's you know what makes me.
Speaker 1: Me absolutely Michael, You've been amazing. We end every episode
Speaker 1: with a final five. You'll like this. Each question has
Speaker 1: to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum,
Speaker 1: so it goes to the ligned with what you just said. So,
Speaker 1: Michael Rubin DIZI your final five question one is what
Speaker 1: is the best entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 2: Don't be afraid to fail, because because if you're afraid
Speaker 2: to fail, you're never gonna take the shot. Like, how
Speaker 2: do you want to be an entrepreneur? You're sitting there
Speaker 2: and you're trying to figure out, like should I do
Speaker 2: this or not? Like you got to go for it.
Speaker 1: Second question, what is the worst entrepreneurship advice you've ever
Speaker 1: heard or received?
Speaker 2: Do it for the money?
Speaker 1: All right? Question number three? What's something you're currently trying
Speaker 1: to learn maybe in busines this or in life. Something
Speaker 1: you're working on.
Speaker 2: How to do what's best for the consumer in everything
Speaker 2: that we do, Like just complete consumer focus. I didn't
Speaker 2: grow up as a complete consumer person, So I think
Speaker 2: there's things if I look at parts of Finax where
Speaker 2: we're not good enough, we haven't been good enough, I'd
Speaker 2: say it's some session with the consumer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I always loved about I still love
Speaker 1: it today. Like when I grew up, I remember the
Speaker 1: first time my parents took me to Disney World and
Speaker 1: I was just like, everything about this place is like
Speaker 1: perfectly organized for me to have the best time of
Speaker 1: my life. Yeah, And it's insane how much detail you
Speaker 1: can put into someone's experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we got our business model, right, Everything
Speaker 2: I do has to be about the consumer. To win
Speaker 2: in a consumer business, it has to be about consumer
Speaker 2: person and everything you do. That's something that I've that
Speaker 2: I'm really it's the biggest thing I'm focused on right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful, all right. Question number four,
Speaker 1: how would you define your current purpose with your impact work?
Speaker 2: Real change? Like to make real change, not like so
Speaker 2: many people who make impact work they write, First of all,
Speaker 2: rating check is easy, okay, if you have money, rating
Speaker 2: check is easily. Don't think because you give money away
Speaker 2: that you're making a difference, like go do the work, okay,
Speaker 2: But making real change like measure the results. Treat like
Speaker 2: a business, not like you know, a charity. Like we
Speaker 2: don't want to run the Reform Alliance like a charity.
Speaker 2: We run around like a business. We business results.
Speaker 1: Beautiful. Fifth and final question re else this to every
Speaker 1: guest who's ever been on the show.
Speaker 2: If you could.
Speaker 1: Create one law that everyone in the world had to follow,
Speaker 1: what would it be comp.
Speaker 2: Be president after sixty five I want the president of
Speaker 2: the United States to be an animal from a work
Speaker 2: at the perspective. I want them to be on their
Speaker 2: a game. I want to make sure that they're maniacal
Speaker 2: about the country the way I'm maniacal about my business.
Speaker 2: One law to go in place, Max, you can't be
Speaker 2: elected to become president after sixty five years old.
Speaker 1: Michael Rubin, Everyone, if you've been listening and watching, make
Speaker 1: sure that you cut the clips for TikTok and Instagram
Speaker 1: that related to you, insights that you loved, share them.
Speaker 1: I love knowing one of the lessons. You'll take it away.
Speaker 1: What are you practicing, what are you implementing and putting
Speaker 1: into your life. I think everyone just called the best
Speaker 1: pep talk that they need for right now in their life.
Speaker 1: This is going to get you to those big goals.
Speaker 1: Listen to this episode, share it with your friends, share
Speaker 1: it with your family. I'm sure someone just needs a
Speaker 1: train to come run through their mind and break through
Speaker 1: all of the barriers that they've set up. I think
Speaker 1: Michael's that train. Michael, thank you.
Speaker 2: So, by the way, disagree with us, you don't agree?
Speaker 1: Bye?
Speaker 2: When you disagree with me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, of course. If you disagree with us, you
Speaker 1: can tell us too. You'll do that anyway. I don't
Speaker 1: need to ask for that. Thanks for having me a
Speaker 1: blessed Thank you, Michael, such a blast. I appreciate you, man,
Speaker 1: and thank you for being so. What I appreciate about
Speaker 1: you is your clarity, your commitment to that clarity, and
Speaker 1: that you're still open and available to learn. I think
Speaker 1: that curiosity, that's what I see in you. It's like
Speaker 1: complete clarity, complete commitment to who you are, and then
Speaker 1: still being curious. That's a deadly combination.
Speaker 2: So thank you. Well well said, try to preach it
Speaker 2: and do it every day. Thank you man.
Speaker 1: If you love this episode, you will love my interview
Speaker 1: with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive
Speaker 1: to find your purpose.
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Speaker 2: solve inparents and coaches have become more directive and trying
Speaker 2: to tell them how the behaviorsus teaching them how to behavior.
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