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Speaker 1: When I would go see I'd go visit my parents

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Speaker 1: even now, like my mom would give me cash and

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Speaker 1: like the roles like didn't change. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: I go to the ATM. I'm the generation I go

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Speaker 1: to the ATM, you get the twenty dollar bills. And

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Speaker 1: my mom, you know, she's of the generation where they

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Speaker 1: go in the bank. So I would see her at

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Speaker 1: games and she would give me like four one hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars in cash, and so it was really cool. And

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Speaker 1: I you know, so I never have money or cash

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Speaker 1: when I'm with my parents because they always pick up

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Speaker 1: a tack up attack up attach so at.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not going to tell his business, but at

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Speaker 2: forty plus years of age, Grant Hell, former professional basketball

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Speaker 2: player at one time I believe the face of NCAA

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Speaker 2: basketball when he was at Duke his parents mother, more specifically,

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Speaker 2: every now and then, just slide some some money here

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Speaker 2: you go, baby, case you need it. Let's be clear

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Speaker 2: he doesn't need it, but that says a lot about

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Speaker 2: how he was raised. He is our guest on Naked

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Speaker 2: Stick Around. You know, want to miss it coming back

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Speaker 2: after this commercial break.

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Speaker 3: Every champion and Kerry Champions to be a champion out

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Speaker 3: a champion and Kerry Champion, and Kerry Chaplie out a

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Speaker 3: champion and Kerry Champion and Kerry Champion. Greatest the sportson

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Speaker 3: entertainment Connaked weird in the world. With vulnerable considered, we

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Speaker 3: come and remove the veil from entertainment's elite. It's the

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Speaker 3: difference between what it's reeling with the public seeds. So

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Speaker 3: here's your favorite celebrities behind the scenes. Just refresh you

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Speaker 3: up there in the whole story of specific life alter

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Speaker 3: rend events to shake the person that you hear. We

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Speaker 3: gotta champion and carry champion the girl you did it.

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Speaker 3: It's the greatest exportsion entertainment. Connect it with every champion

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Speaker 3: and Kerry Champions to be a champion, a champion and

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Speaker 3: carry champion the girl couplady got a champion and Kerry

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Speaker 3: Champion and Kerry Champion. Greatest sportsion entertainment.

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Speaker 2: kN naked were so we have Henry hill On naked today.

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Speaker 2: Lots to talk about with Grant hill Is. Many of

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Speaker 2: you may know him from his days at Duke. He

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Speaker 2: went two NCAA chips there. He played for almost twenty

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Speaker 2: years in the NBA. I think just shy of that

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Speaker 2: nineteen great, great guy. You know, let me keep it

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Speaker 2: a buck. The tagline on Grant is if you want

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Speaker 2: a good man, that's the man every woman should want

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Speaker 2: if they have to date a professional athlete, because he's

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Speaker 2: just a good guy. He comes from good stock. He

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Speaker 2: truly I remember watching him as a kid growing up.

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Speaker 2: He was considered, you know, the American dream. If there

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Speaker 2: was a Ken in Barbie, he would be Ken the

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Speaker 2: Black can if you will. But that's a compliment. We

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Speaker 2: get into that on the podcast today. But before I

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Speaker 2: introduce you to Grant Hill in that way, in that

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Speaker 2: naked way, I want to talk about Deshaun Watson and

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Speaker 2: what is going on in the NFL, if you will.

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Speaker 2: Deshaun Watson has been accused of sexually harassing I want

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Speaker 2: to say, just for the record, twenty four women. Those

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Speaker 2: are twenty four women who have filed a lawsuit against him.

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Speaker 2: There allegedly are far more. He has settled the lawsuit,

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Speaker 2: the civil suit with all except for one. A grand

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Speaker 2: jury has decided not to file criminal charges against him.

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Speaker 2: Two grand juries. They felt like there wasn't enough evidence,

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Speaker 2: and then as a result, once it was known to

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Speaker 2: the NFL that he would not be facing criminal charges.

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Speaker 2: The bidding wars for Deshaun Watson began, and you may

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Speaker 2: remember early on he signed a two hundred and thirty

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Speaker 2: million dollars deal with the Cleveland Browns fully guaranteed. There

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Speaker 2: were a lot of cushions in this deal for him.

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Speaker 2: For instance, if in fact the NFL decided to suspend him,

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Speaker 2: he wouldn't lose that much money, meaning if they decided

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Speaker 2: to suspend him for his behavior outside of the NFL,

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Speaker 2: which is obviously the sexual harassment cases that have been

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Speaker 2: brought against him, that he would not lose that much money.

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Speaker 2: It was also written in his new contract with the

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Speaker 2: Cleveland Browns is that he would have to go with

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Speaker 2: massage therapists that only the team recommended. So those of

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Speaker 2: you who don't know who Deshaun Watson is, it has

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Speaker 2: now been discovered that over a few years, he contacted

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Speaker 2: over sixty women, if not more, and asked them to massage.

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Speaker 2: He is an athlete, he needs to recover and he

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Speaker 2: asks for massages. These are for people who don't know

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Speaker 2: the case. And it turns out that he was reaching

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Speaker 2: out to these women over DMS and when he got

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Speaker 2: into the massage room, the women alleged, many women alleged

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Speaker 2: that it was more than just a massage he wanted,

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Speaker 2: sometimes in some cases a happy ending. He would show

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Speaker 2: up with just a towel over his genitals and nothing else,

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Speaker 2: and he used his leverage as an NFL quarterback to

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Speaker 2: make these ladies feel uncomfortable. It all came ahead when

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Speaker 2: a woman by the name of Ashley Solice, back in

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Speaker 2: Houston when he played for the Texans, shared her story,

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Speaker 2: and her story seemed really convincing, and she did not

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Speaker 2: say anything until maybe a few months, if not a

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Speaker 2: year later. And so for a long time, because he

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Speaker 2: has been dealing with this since twenty twenty, for a

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Speaker 2: very long time, it is now twenty two, twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: we couldn't really determine what was going on with Deshaun.

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Speaker 2: Some of the women were questionable, at least we thought

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Speaker 2: they were. And I hate even saying that, because as

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Speaker 2: soon as a woman accuses a man of sexual harassment

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Speaker 2: or any type of sexual assault, you check her character

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Speaker 2: first and not his. And so for a long time,

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Speaker 2: the media didn't really know how to cover this story,

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Speaker 2: and it laid and laid until these bombshell reports started

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Speaker 2: to come out, specifically from The New York Times, showing

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Speaker 2: that he had a pattern of contacting women in DMS

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Speaker 2: and exchanging messages with him that many people saw and

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Speaker 2: read that were very inappropriate, at the very least predatory,

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Speaker 2: at the very most sexually harassing them. You don't want

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Speaker 2: to be in any one of those cases. But when

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Speaker 2: the criminal charges weren't filed, NFL was like, come on,

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Speaker 2: my brother, come play, and we know what that is.

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Speaker 2: We've seen it over the years, talent. Trump's all, how

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Speaker 2: many stories have we seen, whether it be an NFL player,

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Speaker 2: an NBA player, a journalist, a broadcast journalist, a famous personality,

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Speaker 2: an actor, anyone harassing a woman. Harvey Weinstein, for that matter,

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Speaker 2: he had been doing it for years before they brought

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Speaker 2: him down, decades. If you will, and you won, First

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Speaker 2: check the woman's character, to ignore the story. Three, make

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Speaker 2: the woman's life miserable. Four And this is just as

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Speaker 2: of late, there is some sort of justice. So this

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Speaker 2: week Deshaun Watson found out what his actual punishment would

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Speaker 2: be from the NFL, and that was a suspension of

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Speaker 2: six games. And many people thought that was a slap

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Speaker 2: in the face. It came from a neutral arbiter who said, okay,

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Speaker 2: his actions were egregious, it's really inappropriate. He misses six games.

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Speaker 2: The NFL comes back and says, actually, we're going to

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Speaker 2: appeal that sentence. It seems too late. We're going to

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Speaker 2: see if we can take him away for the rest

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Speaker 2: of the season. I say all that to say is

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Speaker 2: that it's so convoluted and it's so messy, and if

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Speaker 2: many of you have been following this, it is a

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Speaker 2: case of a quarterback. It just so happens to be

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Speaker 2: black who is extremely talented, who did some things that

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Speaker 2: were too familiar, too too consistent, and quite frankly, too

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Speaker 2: suspicious for us to ignore it anymore. I do believe

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Speaker 2: Deshawn's behavior was completely inappropriate, and I'm going to write

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Speaker 2: about it on my I said what I said dot

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Speaker 2: com blog, and I'll post that for you all. But

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Speaker 2: Deshawn's behavior was inappropriate. And if I'm speaking in full

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Speaker 2: candor with you guys, I remember when it first happened

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Speaker 2: to him. I didn't believe it. I reached out, I said,

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Speaker 2: you're doing okay because we had a friendly relationship over DMS,

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Speaker 2: because that's his thing, he DMS. They said, if you

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Speaker 2: could call in help me and give me some advice.

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Speaker 2: I'd like I'd like your advice.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: Remember calling Jim Else saying I don't know, let me

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Speaker 2: watch this play out. I just am not ready to

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Speaker 2: offer him any advice yet because I don't know what

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Speaker 2: I don't know. You can't give advice when you don't

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Speaker 2: know all the facts, and right now I think we

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Speaker 2: have just about all the facts. The fact is is

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Speaker 2: that he contacted over sixty women, if not more that

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Speaker 2: we know of, and ask them to massage him. He

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Speaker 2: is an invaluable commodity for the NFL, and you're contacting

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Speaker 2: women with no real discrimination, meaning like just anybody. Hey,

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Speaker 2: I heard you had a business, a black business. I

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Speaker 2: want to support it. A hair I heard you had

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Speaker 2: a business, I want to support it. Give me a

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Speaker 2: massage today. Afore, I'm sorry. That is not how I

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Speaker 2: believe most professional athletes go about getting massages. They ask

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Speaker 2: for recommendations, they look for good people, and yes some

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Speaker 2: of them, I mean, let's keep it a buck. They

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Speaker 2: look for hot chicks and massage them because they like

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Speaker 2: it and maybe it's more than what it turns out

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Speaker 2: to be. But you cannot in this day and age

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Speaker 2: reach out to women without discrimination, meaning, Okay, there's Susie,

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Speaker 2: there's there's Tanya, there's to me, that's a horrible name. Sorry, Sorry, Gran,

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Speaker 2: I didn't mean to say that. There's Michelle, there's Michael,

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Speaker 2: there's whomever.

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Speaker 4: You can't do that.

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Speaker 2: It just doesn't make sense. I'm nowhere near as famous,

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Speaker 2: and I'm nowhere near as worth as what he is worth.

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Speaker 2: And I just don't allow different people in my aura

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Speaker 2: because I know that he can get complicated. I don't

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Speaker 2: move certain ways because I know that he could get complicated.

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Speaker 2: I don't have the same access that other women would have.

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Speaker 2: I know that, I'm aware of that. I can't just

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Speaker 2: be running up and down the street at work, behaving

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Speaker 2: any old kind of way when I get off work,

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Speaker 2: because I know there are consequences that could possibly follow

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Speaker 2: if I continue to have reckless behavior. And that is

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Speaker 2: at the very least what he had, which was reckless behavior,

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Speaker 2: which seemed predatory. It seemed like he went after certain women.

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Speaker 2: He didn't care. As long as you were a massage

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Speaker 2: therapist and you were kind of cute or cute or whatever,

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Speaker 2: it was attractive to him. And can you missage me

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Speaker 2: today now if you read on the case. I'm giving

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Speaker 2: you a summary. There's so much more involved to it.

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Speaker 2: But what I do know is that it's disappointing that

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Speaker 2: this football player, who at one time was touted as

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Speaker 2: the Michael Jordan of football. His Clemson college coach said

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Speaker 2: that that Bosweeny, he was like, he's a Michael, He's

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Speaker 2: a Michael Jordan of football. He could make it happen.

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Speaker 2: And he is a great player. And you know why

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Speaker 2: he's a great player because the bidding war said, I

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Speaker 2: don't care how many women you've assaulted, can you come

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Speaker 2: play and throw this ball from my football team. When

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Speaker 2: the suspension was handed down, you could hear people at

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Speaker 2: the Cleveland Brown's training cap saying we root for you

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Speaker 2: at training camp. The fans who come and watch, we

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Speaker 2: got your back. To Sean, we don't believe them, we

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Speaker 2: got your back. I mean, he's loved, he's a loved man.

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Speaker 2: And I understand that because these are heroes. These athletes

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Speaker 2: are heroes. No matter how you slice it, it's just

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Speaker 2: that way. But it's disappointing that the consistent messages it

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter. Let me tell you something. Ben Roethlisberger accused

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Speaker 2: of attempted to create retired famous Dealers quarterback six games.

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Speaker 2: Ray Rice punched his wife in an elevator on camera.

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Speaker 2: We saw it all. The end result was six games.

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Speaker 2: The only reason why that was overturned and his career

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Speaker 2: ended was because it was on camera and people made

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Speaker 2: a fuss. If you are talented, it really does. And

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Speaker 2: I hate to say this name Trump's all talent will

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Speaker 2: solve all problems. If you can get us a win

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Speaker 2: and help us make money. That is the bottom line.

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Speaker 2: And it's hard for me to talk about this guy

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Speaker 2: because I considered him a good guy. I rooted for him,

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Speaker 2: young black kid coming up in the league, super talented,

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Speaker 2: still probably is very talented. If he's able to push

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Speaker 2: through all of this and come back, we need to

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Speaker 2: give him a second chance. But right now, his behavior

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Speaker 2: is unacceptable and it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate that he can't

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Speaker 2: admit that this is a problem, and I know why

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Speaker 2: he won't admit it, but it's more unfortunate because it's

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Speaker 2: just another indictment on women and when we try to

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Speaker 2: tell the truth, and more specifically, those who are listening

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Speaker 2: to my podcast right now, who are ment y'all gonna

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Speaker 2: have real issues with me talking about this. Y'all will

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Speaker 2: tell me I'm wrong. Y'all will tell me it's not

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Speaker 2: right to bring down a brother. Y'all will remind me

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Speaker 2: of what I said about Floyd Mayweather and say I'm

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Speaker 2: always trying to take the black man down. And I

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Speaker 2: will simply say to this, what about the black woman?

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Speaker 2: What about your black mother, your sister, your wife, your friend,

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Speaker 2: your aunt, your cousin.

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Speaker 4: What about women?

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Speaker 2: Period heavy days, which is why this is to be continued.

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Speaker 2: We'll put a pin in the Deshaun Watson conversation. We'll

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Speaker 2: see what happens. I'll update you next week. But now

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Speaker 2: it's time.

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Speaker 4: To get naked.

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Speaker 2: To get naked. That was your news and notes, right.

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Speaker 2: I gave you your news and your notes. I gave you

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Speaker 2: some updates, and I give you my notes. Now it's

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Speaker 2: time for Grant Hill. So I'd like to begin with

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Speaker 2: the storytime first time I met Grant Hill when I

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Speaker 2: was on this side of the business. Obviously Washington was

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Speaker 2: a fan and people say that, but I really truly was.

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Speaker 2: But when I met him, I met him in Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: It was some basketball event. We talked about it on

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Speaker 2: the podcast. But I remember thinking, what a nice man,

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Speaker 2: and and what a pristine reputation. But most importantly, he

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Speaker 2: really is what he is set as advertised.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: It's rare that you meet people as advertised that they

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Speaker 2: are the people they have been living that image that

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Speaker 2: they live up to. And I talked to him about

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Speaker 2: his play cousin, Jamal Hill. They call each other play cousins.

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Speaker 2: I talked to him about his marriage, or talked to

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Speaker 2: him about his life as an NBA player. He has

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Speaker 2: a book out which I appreciate, called Game. He's given

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Speaker 2: out Game y'all go ahead and take it, Go ahead

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Speaker 2: and download it, go ahead and buy it, get it, support,

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Speaker 2: go ahead and support it. And then I kind of

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Speaker 2: I kind of get into some really funny stories. He

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Speaker 2: said three things to me, one of which you heard

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Speaker 2: was about how his parents he never ever, ever, in

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Speaker 2: his entire career, has given his parents any money. He

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Speaker 2: maybe bought his dad a car, but that was it.

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Speaker 2: In fact, his parents give him money, and I don't

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Speaker 2: know that to be true of any professional athlete. I

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Speaker 2: would love to interview professional athletes and see how many

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Speaker 2: of them say that that's their experience. Because his parents

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Speaker 2: are the belief that we don't need yours, we have ours.

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Speaker 2: We're accomplished, we have our own. And that speaks to

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Speaker 2: their character and they what they wanted for him and

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Speaker 2: what they knew he could do. And boy is that impressive.

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Speaker 2: And I am impressed because most humans are very selfish,

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Speaker 2: like give me, gim me, gim me, gimme. Instand his

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Speaker 2: parents are like no. So I harped on that because

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Speaker 2: that's the thing for me, obviously speaking from my trauma

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Speaker 2: and my family, not that I am anywhere near close

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Speaker 2: to as the type of income he has, but you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean, the parents will be like, let

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Speaker 2: me hold something, but what you mean, can I hold

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Speaker 2: some back? He talked about being uncomfortable but trying to

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Speaker 2: get comfortable with the fame, and he also talked about

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Speaker 2: nagging injuries that really really plagued him throughout pretty much

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Speaker 2: his professional career. And it's great, but most importantly, he's

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Speaker 2: just a great human. We need to talk about great humans.

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Speaker 2: I do lift my breatherss up. So, without further ado,

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Speaker 2: grant hell, ladies and gentlemen on Naked so first and foremos.

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Speaker 2: The podcast is really just me asking people that I'm

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Speaker 2: really huge fans of just questions and things that I

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Speaker 2: don't I don't know, but I always like when I

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Speaker 2: know someone, I do like to begin with the story.

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Speaker 2: And I want to tell you the first time I

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Speaker 2: met you. Do you remember when we first met and

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Speaker 2: sat and talked?

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Speaker 4: Do you remember that? It was a long time ago?

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Speaker 4: Do you remember I.

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Speaker 1: Remember seeing you in Atlanta?

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Speaker 2: Yes, that was I don't know what it finals something,

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Speaker 2: it was something some sporting yeah, and you sat with me,

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Speaker 2: and I believe it was Rashaan Ali. You just happened

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Speaker 2: to be there, I think. And I was meeting with

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Speaker 2: Rashaan Ali.

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Speaker 4: Do you remember that?

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Speaker 1: Yep?

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Speaker 2: And I thought to myself, what a lovely gentleman, like,

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Speaker 2: how kind, how nice? And you and you know, you

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Speaker 2: know the the rap on you right, what people say

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Speaker 2: about you, which is all the things right? You're kind, nice, gentleman,

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Speaker 2: always a good guy, somebody you can count on, dependable.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever, for lack of a better term, feel

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Speaker 2: a way about being called a nice guy all the time?

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Speaker 1: You know? No? I mean I think you know it's

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Speaker 1: not a I can think of worse things to be called.

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Speaker 1: I found it amusing. I think during my career, particularly

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Speaker 1: in Detroit. You know, you got understand you're coming off

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Speaker 1: of at that time the bad boys, and the bad

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Speaker 1: Boys were you know, hugely successful. Uh kind of get

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Speaker 1: lost in the conversation during that era you talk about

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Speaker 1: the Lakers, which I know you you're a Laker fan.

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Speaker 1: I grew up a Laker fan with the Lakers and

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Speaker 1: Celtics of the eighties. And then you know, we forget

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Speaker 1: about the Pistons and it goes right to the Bulls

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Speaker 1: and Michael Jordan. But you know, in Detroit there was

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Speaker 1: a real sort of pride, understandably so for their accomplishments.

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, this nice guy comes

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Speaker 1: and I think sometimes people confuse nice with weak and

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Speaker 1: and and so that you know, I won't say it

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Speaker 1: bothered me, but it was. It was one of those

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Speaker 1: things where I was like, no, you can still you know,

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Speaker 1: be competitive, you can still you know, you don't get

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Speaker 1: to the NBA and get to an All Star level

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Speaker 1: without having you know a little bit of a nasty streak,

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a competitive streak. But we can

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Speaker 1: be nice after we beat you. Like that was sort

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Speaker 1: of the mindset and the attitude and so but now, look,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think the most important thing is to

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Speaker 1: be authentic and to be who you are, and I've

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Speaker 1: tried to do that. Haven't always been perfect, but I

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Speaker 1: think I try to come from a from an honest place.

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Speaker 2: Which leads me to what I was going to say.

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Speaker 2: There are tons of people who who pretend to be

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Speaker 2: tougher than they really are, right, and then there are

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Speaker 2: those who pretend to be really nice in this business

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Speaker 2: that we are in, and they're real. And it is

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Speaker 2: the rare quality where you meet someone where their reputation

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Speaker 2: of being that person matches who they are, and for you,

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Speaker 2: it has been that way in all rooms. And it's

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Speaker 2: not just so much to give you your props, but for

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Speaker 2: me that's a I feel like that's an honor and

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Speaker 2: a great feeling, because mostly people don't understand who other

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Speaker 2: people are, and the perception is usually not true to

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Speaker 2: who the character is, and for you, it matches. And

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Speaker 2: I remember Chuck Charles Barkley telling this story. You can

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Speaker 2: tell me if it's true or not, but we were

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Speaker 2: at work. It was what you know, Chuck's Infamous Knights,

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Speaker 2: where he holds court in a bar, and I think

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Speaker 2: we might have been in Atlanta at the Four Seasons

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Speaker 2: and he was talking about money. It's when we were

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Speaker 2: doing the show Arena and it was I believe it

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Speaker 2: was Draymond Chuck, you know, tear everybody the crew, and

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Speaker 2: he said, I remember Grant Hill's parents telling me. And

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Speaker 2: you know, by the way, the location may be wrong,

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Speaker 2: but it was in a bar somewhere everybody talking about it.

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Speaker 4: Might not have been there, but it was somewhere around

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Speaker 4: the world in the bar.

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Speaker 2: And Chuck was holding court and he was like, I

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Speaker 2: remember Grant Hill's parents telling me when you become really

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Speaker 2: rich and you have money and you start to give

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Speaker 2: it to family and fri, it's never enough. You do

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Speaker 2: know that it's never enough? Do you remember your parents

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Speaker 2: talking to Chuck about that and money and and and

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Speaker 2: what happens when you get into this to this very

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Speaker 2: extremely wild business of the NBA and you become multi multi,

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Speaker 2: multi millionaires and people can read about all the money

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Speaker 2: you make.

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Speaker 4: Do you remember that?

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Speaker 1: I do? I do remember that. It was nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 1: uh and coincidentally it was in Atlanta at the Olympics

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Speaker 1: and we were we were at the Western or excuse me, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Western Hotel, No, the Omni hotel. Excuse me, the

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Speaker 1: Omni Hotel, I should know. And it wasn't a bar,

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Speaker 1: but it was in the in the eating area during

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Speaker 1: lunch exactly exactly. Well, if it had been later in

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Speaker 1: the night, it probably would have been correct. It was

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Speaker 1: especially with Chuck correct. My parents would just kind of

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Speaker 1: post up there in the in the cafeteria and you know,

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Speaker 1: just see family members, see players, and they spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of time with with Charles, and it was really

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Speaker 1: kind of cute to see them kind of bonding, and

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Speaker 1: particularly my mom with with Chuck and yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, you know, or here's my mom, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: come on now, you know, you're given advice to Charles Barkley,

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Speaker 1: like come on, you know, And but it really resonated

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Speaker 1: with him, and I've heard him say that, I've heard

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Speaker 1: him say it to other people in my presence and

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Speaker 1: how it really impacted him. And so, you know, it

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Speaker 1: just makes me realize and appreciate how fortunate to have

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Speaker 1: that kind of counsel and to have that support as

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Speaker 1: I tried to navigate you know, celebrity and fame and

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Speaker 1: money and and all the trappings that come with it.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know, one of the things my mom

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Speaker 1: used to always say since we brought her up was

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Speaker 1: you know, when I was young, she would say this

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Speaker 1: a lot. I didn't quite understand it, but she would say,

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Speaker 1: don't feel fair, don't fear failure, fear success, because there's

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Speaker 1: more people who are ruined by it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: for me, you know, I needed to hear that. It

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Speaker 1: needed to sort of like understand first of all, you know,

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Speaker 1: go for it, don't don't fear failing, but also understanding

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Speaker 1: what comes with success, and so whether in our industry

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Speaker 1: and television. You know, there's loads of examples of some

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Speaker 1: of what you mentioned. We won't name names, but I

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Speaker 1: think through it all, just you know, my parents and

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Speaker 1: sort of my dad and his career just tried to

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Speaker 1: be you know, we came of age, or I came

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Speaker 1: of age. I'm a lot older than you, but I

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Speaker 1: came of age during to keep it real generation, and

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Speaker 1: so to me, I interpreted that like, let me be real,

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Speaker 1: let me be who I am, Let me be authentic

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Speaker 1: and not try to put on or act a certain way,

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Speaker 1: and through it all, like, you know, I think I've

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Speaker 1: done that. I think I've tried to stay true to

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Speaker 1: who I am and not be something I'm not and

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Speaker 1: really kind of be proud of it, you know, and

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Speaker 1: and and not. You know, like that's what differentiates you.

432
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: That's what separates you in a lot of ways, is

433
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,959
Speaker 1: you know, your authentic self. So so yeah, I mean

434
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: I remember Charles saying that, and and he talks about

435
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 1: it a lot. And you know, look, even now, you know,

436
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: my parents when when I'm with them, like they pick

437
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: up the tag and they you know, I still when

438
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: I would go see i'd go visit my parents even now,

439
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: Like my mom would give me cash and like the

440
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: roles like didn't change. And so you know, I go

441
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: to the ATM. I'm the generation I go to the

442
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 1: ATM you get the twenty dollar bills. And my mom,

443
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 1: you know, she's of the generation where they go in

444
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: the bank. So she would give me. I would see

445
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: her at games. We'd play the Wizards and you know,

446
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: they'd come to games. They live in the DC area,

447
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 1: and she would give me like four hundred dollars in cash,

448
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,719
Speaker 1: and so it was really cool. And I you know,

449
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 1: so I never have money or cash when I'm with

450
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: my parents because they always pick up the tab.

451
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: Okay, So I got to talk about you for five seconds.

452
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 2: I got to talk about you. First of all, that's

453
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 2: absolutely adorable. Second of all, that tells me a lot

454
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 2: about your parents, which I'm going to get into in

455
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 2: a second, because I remember when I would watch you

456
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: playing in college, I the the storylines would be you're

457
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: the next this, and who your parents were and how

458
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 2: the family that you came from. That was always one

459
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 2: of the many storylines, like you were I don't know,

460
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 2: you guys are the Huxtables, you know right at me,

461
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: Like it was the way in which it was portrayed.

462
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 2: So for you to say that, it's really adorable. So

463
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 2: I need to know what have we bought our parents?

464
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 2: Because I know you're not taking four and five hundred

465
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 2: dollars for my homegirl like that all the time, like you,

466
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: I know you botch you around my house. Come on, now,

467
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 2: don't be. They'll act like they just out here giving

468
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: you money.

469
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 4: No, they wouldn't know.

470
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: So so my parents. So they moved into this house

471
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: that you know when I was a senior in high

472
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: school and they've been in the house thirty plus years. Wow,

473
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: I did buy let me say, I bought my dad

474
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: a car for his Okay, bottom of Mercedes in ninety

475
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: seven for his fiftieth and then I bought my mom.

476
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 1: I did buy her a car at one point escalate,

477
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: I think, but that's it, you know, And so they

478
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: don't want anything. Look, they're insulted that if I were

479
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: to pick up the tab or pay for something, and so,

480
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: you know, they're like, look, we got our own money.

481
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: We don't need you know, we don't need your your handouts.

482
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: And so but here's the thing, here's the thing that

483
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: was fascinating about.

484
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,479
Speaker 2: That, this whole conversation is fascinating. I don't know a

485
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 2: black parent. Don't that don't be like, give.

486
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 4: Me something like this is fascinating.

487
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think I think it speaks to

488
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: to you know, Look, they're achievers and they've they've had

489
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: their own successes and and and so certainly I'm mindful

490
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: of that and they're proud of that. But also, you know,

491
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: and I'm not trying to judge or I don't want

492
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: to come off the wrong way, but I think the

493
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: fact that I've never liked, you know, took care of

494
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: them financially, and I would, I mean I would if

495
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 1: I needed to. But I think it's it's allowed for

496
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: the relationship to be real and to be like they

497
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: never once have bitten their tongue. They never like you know,

498
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: had to bite their tongue or hold back or change

499
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: their role of being a parent. And so you know,

500
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: I'm not perfect and sometimes I miss I make mistakes.

501
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 4: I heard I never know. I don't believe it. I

502
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 4: don't believe that.

503
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: My parents and my wife would tell you, yes, I

504
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: made a lot of it. But you know, they've always

505
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: like they've been able to be straight shooters with me.

506
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: And you know, having people who tell you what you

507
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 1: need to hear, I think is so important as we

508
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: talk about navigating celebrity in life, and they've always done that.

509
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: And and so I think if they were on the

510
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: quote unquote payroll, that might compromise that a bit, that

511
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: might make it difficult. I'm not trying to say that

512
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: that's the case for other people, but I just know,

513
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: you know, money has not changed the dynamics of our relationship,

514
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: and that's something I'm grateful for.

515
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: You're for those who are listening. He is making a

516
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 2: very valid point that you can only understand it if

517
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 2: you've seen it. So in this business, I started out

518
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: working in terms of when I decided to go strictly

519
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: into sports. I was working at the Tennis channel and

520
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: I would watch these literally, no lie, seventeen eighteen year

521
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 2: old kids who had lots of money, and they would

522
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: control their parents and their trainer and everybody else involved.

523
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 2: And the parents can really be themselves. The kids were

524
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: running the house that we're running the household because they

525
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 2: have the money. The dynamic shifts when the person with

526
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 2: the money is in control, right, even in this case.

527
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 2: So I do understand what you're saying. And I have

528
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 2: seen the yes men and women around said celebrity, said athlete,

529
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: And you're right, it changes how you all interact. I

530
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: think though, that is honorable and I and by way

531
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 2: of background, your father he went to Yale.

532
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 4: Correct, he played in the league, the NFL. Correct.

533
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: Now, tell tell us a little bit about the pressure,

534
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 2: and also about your mom and what she did in

535
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 2: her own accomplishments, because I have to be a lot

536
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 2: of pressure growing up with these too, these two parents

537
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: who are achievers in their own right, you know what

538
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: I mean?

539
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, Look, my dad, you know, my grandfather, my

540
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: paternal grandfather, had a you know, second grade education, and

541
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: so you know, for him. He always emphasized, you know,

542
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: the importance of education. And one thing my dad, you know,

543
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: would always share was that, you know, my grandfather bought

544
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: him some encyclopedias when he was a kid, and and

545
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: so anyway, education and I think for that generation, I mean,

546
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: education was obviously because it was denied to us, it

547
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: was all, you know, it was definitely emphasized. And then

548
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: my dad won a scholarship to go to a boarding school,

549
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: which he didn't want to go to, but his father

550
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: made him go. And I think that really changed, as

551
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: he would say, the trajectory of his life. And so

552
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: now he arrives as a ninth grader and all these

553
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: kids are talking about Ivy League schools, and so it

554
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: was an Ivy League sort of prep school, which you know,

555
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: he excelled in sports and eventually went on to Yale

556
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: and played in the NFL thirteen years. And then my mom,

557
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, she grew up in segregated South you know,

558
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: never never really met or had a conversation with somebody white,

559
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: and then went to you know, Boston, Massachusetts, and went

560
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: to Wellesley and was one of five black young women

561
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: at the school. And so that was a bit of

562
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: a of a culture shock. But you know, I think

563
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: for both of them, you know, being taken out of

564
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: their comfort zone in an education educational environment, in higher

565
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: education and secondary education, I think it really kind of

566
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: opened their eyes. And you know, my mom went on

567
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: and she had her own corporate consulting firm for thirty

568
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: years on Capitol Hill, and you know, we joke she

569
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: she's she's settle on a number of corporate boards like Nextel, Sprint,

570
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: Sprint next to Wendy's, the Carlile Group. She went into

571
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: the National Association of Corporate Directors Hall of Fame, and

572
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: so she likes to say that you know that, uh,

573
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, we're not the only ones in the Hall

574
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: of fame. She's in the Hall of Fame too. So

575
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: you know, she's she's been sort of the star of

576
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: the family and certainly had a great business career. So

577
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,959
Speaker 1: growing up, there were expectations, Uh there were also I

578
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: think their example and the access, uh and the exposure

579
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: that they provided was invaluable. But you know, there was

580
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: also pressure. And you know, my parents were pretty incredible,

581
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: not just with my black peers, but with all my peers. Like,

582
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't see a lot of my friends black, white,

583
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: or whatever who had parents quite like mine. And so

584
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: I at times rug with feeling like trying to live

585
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: up to their success and trying to live up to

586
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: what they've accomplished. And that was, you know, twelve, thirteen,

587
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: fourteen years of age. You're trying to figure out who

588
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: you are. You know, you're going through that. You know,

589
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: middle school is not fun for anyone, I think when

590
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: you look back on it, but you know, it's sort

591
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: of like wow, like, no matter what I do, you

592
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: know they've done it, you know, on a whole nother level.

593
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: And so I remember I did a science project. I

594
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: don't know, I can't remember a science fair or whatever

595
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: science project. And I remember I was talking to my

596
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: mom and she was like, yeah, in nineteen sixty whatever,

597
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: she did a she won the National Science Fair with

598
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: her project. And I was like, man, like, I can't

599
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: do anything, you know, and.

600
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 2: You come with your solar system, which you got Mars

601
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: and you got Saturn and toothpicks.

602
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 4: That'll have been something I did exactly.

603
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I'm just trying to get a B minus

604
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: like she's talking about. You know, she was, you know,

605
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: the best science project in the country. So I mean,

606
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: so they were achievers, but you know, they always tried

607
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: to empower me. They always try to you know, my

608
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: mom and my dad have always been my biggest fans

609
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: and supporters. And I do think, and I talk about

610
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: a little bit in the book, but I think I

611
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: think basketball kind of helped validate it defined me. It

612
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: gave me confidence and really helped me grow into who

613
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: I became. And but yeah, no question, they were achievers

614
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: and that was like whoa like this is? You know, Yeah,

615
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to I'm just I'm just trying to

616
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: like not have seas on my report card, you know.

617
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: And do not go anywhere more stories with Greg Hill

618
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: and how he is living in this space when we

619
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: come back. You can fast forward through the commercial break too.

620
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: Okay, Every champion and Kerry champions to be a champion,

621
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 3: a champion and carry chappion and carry chat. Be a

622
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: champion and carry chappion and carry chat. Great, it's the

623
00:32:53,120 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 3: sports and entertainment can make it weird. Every champion and

624
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 3: the Cary Chappy is to be a champion, a champion,

625
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 3: the care Chappie and they play a champion the Carey

626
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 3: Shepi and they cared.

627
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 4: Name get Naked Working Welcome Back.

628
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: Grant Hill is on the podcast He's Naked in your

629
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: own right, And I'm sure they tell you this. You

630
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 2: are so accomplished and you talk about I mean, look,

631
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: part owner of a team, art collector, that is that

632
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: that people know of.

633
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 4: I'll get into that, but but not only that, an author.

634
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: Right, you have a book, ever memoir game, and I

635
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 2: think for me, that has to be one of the

636
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: hardest things to do, to sit down and write about

637
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: yourself and be very honest and authentic and know that

638
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: people will read it and judge you. And you do

639
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: talk about confidence and how the game of basketball gave

640
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: you that. I always thought, this is my observation. I

641
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 2: am not a psychologist, but watching you, watching you in college,

642
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: watching you play, there was always this quiet and I

643
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: don't want to say brooding because that wasn't the but contemplation.

644
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 2: I always felt like you were consistently in thought, and

645
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 2: not just about the game, but just like heavy thought.

646
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: And I always wondered what was going through your mind

647
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 2: during that time. And I don't know if it was

648
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: that you might have been frustrated with injuries, right, I

649
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: don't know if you ever thought that people, you know,

650
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: if you got the respect that you deserved.

651
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't know, but I always thought you

652
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 4: were always contemplating. Am I wrong? No, you could be honest.

653
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 4: I could be wrong.

654
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: No, No, I I think I'm a thinker. I think

655
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: I I you know, I think personality will. I mean, look,

656
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: I'm in media, so you know, we're paid to talk

657
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: and have an opinion, and but I think my nature

658
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: is it is to be to myself and somewhat introverting.

659
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: And if I'm in a public setting, I'm more at

660
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: ease and more comfortable observing and and you know, instead

661
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: of being on you know, like that I can do it.

662
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: But that's not something where you know, like we talked

663
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: about Charles, Charles likes the whole court like he he

664
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: gets energy from doing that. That is draining to me.

665
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 1: And so I think that combined with being an only child,

666
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: like you're accustomed to being lost in your thoughts and

667
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: and sometimes that that can you know, that can be

668
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: a hindrance, you know, like that can can you can

669
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: get you know, too caught up and over analyzing things

670
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: and looking at things from every standpoint. But yeah, I

671
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: mean I think I'm I'm I think by nature that's

672
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: who I am. I think at different stages of my career,

673
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: you know, when I got hurt and I came back.

674
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, early on in my career, my

675
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: career was was kind of all over the map in

676
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: terms of what I experience. But you know, there was

677
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: a there was an interesting how do I put it,

678
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: I was I was kind of uncomfortable with the limelight

679
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 1: and the attention. I didn't run from it. I didn't

680
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: do Tim Duncan and just keep quiet and play. I

681
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: leveraged it. I monetized it, you know, I made money

682
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: for off of it. But it was never something that

683
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: that I was comfortable with. And and so part of that,

684
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: as I'm private, part of that is I just don't

685
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: like the attention on me. Uh and so what do

686
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: I do? I write a book?

687
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: You know, But.

688
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: But you know, I mean I think get pretty close

689
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: to that. I think I think that's a good assessment.

690
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: If you were no, but what you just said makes sense,

691
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 2: right you You maybe there was a discomfort. Maybe that's

692
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 2: what I was thinking. I was like, I don't think

693
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: he likes all this attention. However, However, for someone who

694
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 2: doesn't like all the attention. It came to you in

695
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: a huge way, the face of n C double A,

696
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 2: know what I mean, the face of you know, the

697
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: NBA at one point, right you come out and and

698
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: people there's there. There was no wrong that you could do,

699
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: in my opinion, and I felt like, either he's uncomfortable

700
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: with this, or this is a lot of pressure. Maybe

701
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: it is all of the above. But then grant you

702
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 2: have an acting career. You popping up on TV shows,

703
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 2: on my little favorite sitcoms and stuff. So I was like,

704
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 2: he gonna be actor?

705
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 4: Why you? Why?

706
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: Why you? Why you?

707
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 4: Why you acting? If you uncomfortable, tell me, tell me,

708
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 4: tell me why you an actor?

709
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think I think I realized.

710
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: So it was interesting. I was with my handlers as obvious,

711
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: no fan. I was with my people before the draft

712
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: and the summer before my rookie year, and I remember,

713
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, one they said you have a chance to

714
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: be a brand, and I didn't understand what that meant.

715
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: I knew what a brand was. I knew, like you know,

716
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: I equated a brand to McDonald's or Nike or or whatever.

717
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: I didn't think it individual was a brand. You know,

718
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: it just shows you how much everyone now is very

719
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: brand awareness, uh you know, conscious of their brand. But

720
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: back then that was something that you know, I had

721
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: to process. And then I remember, like, you know, I

722
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: remember like I want. I said to everybody, I said,

723
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: I want to know and I want to feel what

724
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: it's like to be Michael Jordan. And what I meant

725
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: by that was, to me, he embodied excellence. He won,

726
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: He was the darling of Madison Avenue, he was the

727
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: face of the league, and so to me, he was

728
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: the standard and really kind of, you know, has been

729
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 1: sort of the standard ever since. I mean, Lebron and

730
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: others have been able to take that maybe and go

731
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: to a whole nother level in some respects, but like

732
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: Jordan was the gold standard and and so so to

733
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: me that that meant I was doing. I was, you know,

734
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: I was on a trajectory of success. I was going

735
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: to be go down as maybe one of the greatest,

736
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 1: and so all that that encompass was what I wanted,

737
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: or at least I told myself I wanted. But then

738
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,919
Speaker 1: as I got into it, I wasn't like I didn't

739
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: necessarily enjoy all of it. I didn't enjoy all the

740
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: attention I didn't enjoy, you know, going out and all

741
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: eyes on me. You know, I had a bucket list

742
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: you have to go on like living single, like you

743
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: have you know a funny story with that is that?

744
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: So they asked me to come on. I said I

745
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: would do it. I flew out to la and you know,

746
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: they they'd have a table reading, like on a Thursday,

747
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: and then you'd rehearsed through the weekend, and then you

748
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: might have a live studio, live recording. So they send

749
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: the script to the hotel and I don't read it.

750
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm not reading. We got a whole

751
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: week of rehearsal. So I show up at the reading

752
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: and as we're going through it, I'm like, oh crap,

753
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: Like I'm in a lot of scenes, Like I'm like,

754
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there like and then I have to like

755
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: I gotta kiss and I gotta They got me singing

756
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: like I'm sitting there like how am I gonna pull

757
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 1: this off? Like I had? And so then it hit me.

758
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: I was like, it's I don't think I can do this,

759
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: like and I remember I called my agent and I

760
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: was like, I need to back out of this, Like

761
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: it's too much, and they were like, it's too late.

762
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: They've already committed, you know, they're on a schedule. And

763
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: so everybody was great. You know Dana Queen Latifa, she

764
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: was awesome the whole say, I'm not a like I

765
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: wasn't a PDA guy like at that point, like I

766
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: didn't hold hands. I never like I didn't like to

767
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: kiss in front of people, like you know, and now

768
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: you know, so we go through the week, we reheard

769
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: and it's really funny. I had a multiple sort of

770
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: kissing scenes with Latifa.

771
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: By the way, that was so rude of them to

772
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 2: do that to you, because they were like, let's see

773
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: him differently than he normally is that's rude.

774
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,439
Speaker 1: I don't like it now, but you know, I don't mind.

775
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: I mean, in the long run, being taken out of

776
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: your for zone is a good yeah. And so but

777
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: we never rehearsed the kids. There was one kiss when

778
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: we're on the couch and it was like one of

779
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: those things where like you just kind of stay stare

780
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: at each other and then you just go for it.

781
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: And but we never went for it and rehearsal and

782
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: so I didn't know, like, is this a real kiss

783
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: is a fake kid, Like, I didn't know.

784
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 2: You didn't ask the way time out, time out, time out,

785
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: I need a fifteen. You didn't ask those questions. You

786
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 2: didn't say, do I have to look at you and

787
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: then go do a real kiss? Because I would think

788
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 2: I would establish at first, like is it tongue? Is

789
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: it not? Time? Like?

790
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 4: You didn't ask those questions.

791
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: No, that wasn't you know, that wasn't established. And and

792
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: maybe I just you know, like I said, I didn't

793
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 1: want to act like I didn't know what was happening,

794
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: so I just kind of went with the flow. Uh,

795
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: and so, and then the scene was I won't say

796
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: whether it was a real kiss or not. I'll you know,

797
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: out of respect, I won't say what that was or okay,

798
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: we just said that the scene was we kissed too dark.

799
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: So it went to commercial and they were gonna cue

800
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: us when when when it was done? So so we

801
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: never rehearsed that. We just rehearsed up until that. So

802
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: then I can't believe I'm telling the story. But anyway,

803
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: so then we actually live studio audience were in the

804
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: midst and then they don't cure us, and so it's

805
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: like for a minute, and so they would be so

806
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: anyway that so thankfully we only had to do it

807
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: one time. But I said all that to say that, like,

808
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: I was not a PDA guy. I was not someone

809
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: like acting and here I am like in every scene

810
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 1: and uh and every once in a while they replay

811
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: it because I you know, you'll see on Twitter people

812
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: will talk about all the Latifa scene and you know

813
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: whatever whatever. But but yeah, I mean that that that was.

814
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 2: My kissed her for a minute and they didn't cure

815
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 2: you guys to stop. Yes, I think that might have been.

816
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 2: I think she might have said, don't cute me, look,

817
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: don't like he fine, and I'm just like whatever, Well

818
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

819
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 4: You don't want to hear that.

820
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: I look, it was it was. It was a fun experience,

821
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: and you know it was, like I said, it was

822
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: one of those buckets. I will say this. I was

823
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: never asked to come back and ask so clearly it

824
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: was a one and done opportunity.

825
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: Don't mind me, I am silly. I am having too

826
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 2: much fun with this story. I totally understand that. I

827
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: have you know the nature of the business. People ask

828
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: you to act and you're like I'm not an actor,

829
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 2: and so when they ask us to do these things

830
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: that take us out of our comfort zone, I don't

831
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: like it.

832
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 4: I know, I agree with you. It makes me.

833
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 2: I was like, I can be myself. But that's not

834
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 2: because like it's not the same, it's two different things.

835
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 2: But I'm also looking. You were on an episode of

836
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: Home Improvement. You did a lot of little things, and

837
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: so all of these things not necessarily your favorite, but

838
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 2: you did them because you thought that was what was

839
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 2: required of you at the time. Could we get you

840
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 2: in a Tyler Perry movie at this moment as an actor,

841
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 2: if Tyler Perry came to you and say, grant my man,

842
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 2: listen at the.

843
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 1: Year for you. Yeah. Look, I mean I've grown since then,

844
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: and as long as it just in general, like I'm

845
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: more comfortable. You know, I was young. I was twenty

846
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: two on a living single. But look, I was in

847
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: I was actually in a small part in a Will

848
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: Packer movie, which one the movie with Taraji Henson What

849
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: What Women Want? What Men Want? Okay, okay, And there

850
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: was a poker scene with Shaq and me and a

851
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: few other people and we so that was and I actually,

852
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not proud of it, but I actually cursed.

853
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: So it was kind of funny seeing me like kind

854
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: of like go off like I did. But that was

855
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: fun to see the whole process. And Will is a

856
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: good friend of mine, and Will kind of you know,

857
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: allowed me to be in a movie although it was

858
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: a real small part, and he hasn't asked me to

859
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: come back. So clearly, once again, one and done. But

860
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: you know what, I can check it off and say

861
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: that that that I did it.

862
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: So Hollywood is unnoticed. Grant is ready, he is, he

863
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 2: is willing to put himself out there. Do you Okay,

864
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: So you said you had to curse? Do you curse

865
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 2: in general?

866
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: Never? Yeah, I mean I I from time to time,

867
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: I will. I try not to, but you know, sometimes

868
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: you just it comes out.

869
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 4: Do you drink?

870
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, ok, here's a funny thing. Here's a funny thing.

871
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 1: I didn't drink until I met my wife. Oh lord,

872
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: And so that sounds horrible when you say, like you know,

873
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: I didn't, but no, seriously, like I didn't drink, Like

874
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: I went through college and my first couple of years,

875
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: I didn't drink at all. And then one day she said,

876
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 1: we have to change this if we're going to survive,

877
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: we're going to have to change this. And so so now, yeah,

878
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: you know, have the ocasional cocktail.

879
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 2: I love her for that, because that's real. I don't

880
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 2: trust nobody who don't drink. It's get around me as

881
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 2: they use it. I used to be in a relationship

882
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 2: with somebody for a very long time and he never drank,

883
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,399
Speaker 2: and I'd like, at least take a sip of wine.

884
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 2: Don't have me out here by myself looking crazy. So

885
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 2: I appreciate I appreciate that she she made you have

886
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 2: a cocktailer too, speaking of your wife, beautiful, beautiful voice,

887
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 2: beautiful soul, beautiful. To me, I had to toe, how

888
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 2: did you all meet?

889
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: So, you know, to me it was was from Windsor, Ontario,

890
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,720
Speaker 1: which is I like to say, it's a suburb of Detroit.

891
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 4: It is.

892
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,959
Speaker 1: And uh, even though it's a you know, a foreign

893
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: it's Canada. But it actually kind of started Isaiah Thomas

894
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: my second year, was getting his jersey retired at the

895
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: Palace and Anita Baker sang the national anth and so

896
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: afterwards there was a reception at the Palace, and you know,

897
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: I went up there and all the old bad boys

898
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: were there and I got a chance to meet her

899
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: and her then husband, and so, you know, she was

900
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: I don't know, somehow the conversation. She was like, I'm

901
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 1: sure you're breaking all the hearts or you know whatever.

902
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: You got a girl, you know, and I was like, nah,

903
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: you need to hook me up, just kind of casually

904
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: saying that, jokingly saying that. And so I think a

905
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: week later, Anita Baker was at I don't know, Soul

906
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: Train Awards, one of the award shows, and she met Tama.

907
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: And this is when Tamia first came out. I think

908
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: she was on Quincy's album You Put a Move in

909
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: My Heart. And to me, I said, I'm from the area.

910
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 1: I grew up a big fan of yours. And so

911
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: Anita was like, oh, I know, just the person for you,

912
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, this is who it is. And so

913
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: ta Mia. I swear she didn't know who I was

914
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 1: at that time, but I'm like, yeah, right, I'm joking

915
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 1: when I say that.

916
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean i'd been like yeah right too,

917
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 4: Like oh, you don't know.

918
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: So fast forward, we met in Detroit maybe later that year,

919
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean we've we've you know, pretty much

920
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 1: been together ever since ninety six. We met in May

921
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: of ninety six, and you know, it was interesting, Like

922
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: I didn't think that I was going to jump into

923
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: a relationship, a serious relationship, you know. I just I

924
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: felt like to be an elite player, you know, it

925
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: was a sacrifice and a dedication. I didn't know if

926
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: I could manage having a relationship. So I think I

927
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 1: was going to do the Derek Jeter thing, like that

928
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: was sort of what you know before Derek Jeter. I'm

929
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: older than Derek, but like I was just going to

930
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: sort of casually date until I was older and then

931
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: settle down and you know, you make plans and God laughs.

932
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: But we instantly were smitten and kind of fell in

933
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: love and got into a relationship. And that wasn't what

934
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: I thought. But you know, you know you instantly when

935
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: you meet somebody and you know it's right, it's right.

936
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: And it was interesting because you know, we got young,

937
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 1: we got married, got married in ninety nine. She was

938
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: twenty four, was twenty five, twenty six, and I think

939
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 1: there were people, even friends of mine, were like why

940
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: are you getting married? Like dude, like what are you doing?

941
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 2: You know, and and.

942
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: It was when you know, you know, it's been an

943
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: incredible journey and twenty three years we just celebrated last

944
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: week and yeah, no, thank you, thank you. And so

945
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: you know, we've I couldn't imagine, you know, going through

946
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: the injuries and the struggles and the highs and the lows.

947
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: And then you know, conversely with her, like you know

948
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: what she's going through, she's you know, she has a book,

949
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: she has a story, and it's been fun. It's been

950
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: a blast. Our kids are you know, are older now

951
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: twenty and fifteen, so parenthood has been great and watching

952
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: them grow and and then sort of looking ahead, you know,

953
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 1: like you empty nesters, you know, like now you kind

954
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: of get your life back a little bit, you know,

955
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: you can do things, and so but it's been, it's been.

956
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: And so I always when I see Anita Baker, I

957
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: think her and.

958
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 4: What a great story. Anita Baker hooked us up.

959
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 2: And then you guys just so happened you had met

960
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: her before she had her own situation situations over like

961
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 2: this is a story. First of all, Like again I

962
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: go back to the beginning of the podcast when I

963
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 2: tell you you're a rare breed, because I couldn't imagine

964
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 2: being in the NBA, being twenty four years old, having

965
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 2: access to just about any in terms of dating, anybody

966
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 2: you could date, because that's probably what it was for you.

967
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 2: And your friends are like, dude, you're gonna get married?

968
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 4: What you giving up?

969
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 1: All of this?

970
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 4: You're giving up this, You give up this lifestyle.

971
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 2: And it's almost like I always laugh because men act

972
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: like when their homeboy gets married, it's like they put

973
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 2: him in front of a fire range and the good

974
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 2: times are over. Like, man, I guess you it's a funeral.

975
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,879
Speaker 2: It's a funeral for the your frands act like it's

976
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 2: a funeral when you get married, and the women.

977
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 4: Are like, I'm so excited. It's so exciting. But I

978
00:50:57,840 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 4: was so beautiful. It's a beautiful story.

979
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 2: And what's even better, you know, and nothing's perfect, but

980
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: it's always a beautiful story to see a couple in

981
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,439
Speaker 2: the limelight make it because it cannot be easy doing

982
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 2: it without having fame, you know what I mean, So

983
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 2: imagine doing it with fame. I couldn't imagine how difficult

984
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 2: it was for you all at that time. And then

985
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 2: I know in your book you talk about the injuries

986
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: and all you went through. You played nineteen years, yeap,

987
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 2: nineteen years. Was there a time that you wanted to

988
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: and share this with them when you really thought I

989
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,959
Speaker 2: want to retire before the nineteen years, or you kept

990
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 2: going back because you felt like I still have more

991
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 2: to give the game.

992
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there was only a real small window

993
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: where I thought about retiring, and that was, you know,

994
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 1: after my you know, I had staff infection and you know,

995
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: with septic and the whole ordeal that was. That was tough.

996
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: For like two or three months, I was like, you

997
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: know what, I almost died because of my you know,

998
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: desire to play, and you know, maybe some incompetent medical

999
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: advice in there as well, and it's not you know,

1000
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: it's not worth it. But but yeah, I mean I

1001
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: I was pretty relentless about wanting to get back and play.

1002
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I think, I think, one,

1003
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,240
Speaker 1: I love I love the game, you know, I love playing,

1004
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: and I knew that once you walk away from it,

1005
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,799
Speaker 1: like it's over and something you commit your whole life

1006
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: to and something you are passionate about and and just

1007
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: you know, I think for anyone just in general, to retire,

1008
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: it's not an easy transition. And so like I wanted

1009
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 1: to exhaust everything before I walked away. And uh so

1010
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: in the midst of all of that, you know, I

1011
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 1: kept saying, like, Okay, I'm gonna make up for it.

1012
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: On the back end, I'm gonna play till I'm forty,

1013
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: and I promise you that day I turned forty, my

1014
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: last year with the Clippers, I hurt my knee. And

1015
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: now it was it was the third knee injury in

1016
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: a year, but it was like like it was a

1017
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: third knee injury on the same knee. But I heard

1018
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:15,720
Speaker 1: it and I was out for like three or four months,

1019
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: and it was like, man like I used to always

1020
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: say when i'm I'm gonna make up for it and

1021
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 1: play till I'm forty. And the day I turned forty,

1022
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,319
Speaker 1: I get hurt. Yeah, and so I should have said

1023
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: I should have said fifty and but but yeah, no,

1024
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I forgot the question. Forgive me.

1025
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 1: I'm going on to tegic.

1026
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 2: But it's just like, sometimes it's hard to walk away

1027
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 2: from something you love. And I said, did you ever

1028
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 2: feel like you said when you had staff infection, you

1029
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 2: thought free time and then you kept playing because you

1030
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 2: felt like you had something to give the game or

1031
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 2: you just loved it.

1032
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 4: You couldn't imagine your.

1033
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 2: Life without that routine, without the travel, Like that becomes

1034
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: that becomes addictive, and it just becomes your lifestyle.

1035
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 4: You think, what am I going to do now?

1036
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 2: Like that's a real serious question for a lot of

1037
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 2: athletes to who retire, who walk away from the game,

1038
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 2: Like what's next for me?

1039
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

1040
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean I think, Okay, a couple of things, yes,

1041
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: no question, the desire to keep playing. And I think

1042
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: as I did transition into retirement and really the process

1043
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 1: of writing this book and even just kind of living

1044
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 1: with the book and then you know, kind of building

1045
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 1: up to the release of the of the book, you know,

1046
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: I think this, You know, I think I realized that

1047
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: in sort of time to unpack some things, I got

1048
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: a lot on my plate and a lot that I'm doing.

1049
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that has to do

1050
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: with maybe things not ending or going the way I

1051
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,800
Speaker 1: would have liked them to have gone during my career.

1052
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 1: And so this like incredible drive to like succeed and

1053
00:54:55,360 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 1: to accomplish something. And you know, to me sometimes with

1054
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: joke like early in retirement, she's like, man, I thought,

1055
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: retirement was like, you know, a rocking chair and lemonade,

1056
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 1: and I was going and hustling like she said, you're

1057
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: you're hustling like you're broke, like you know, and and

1058
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: I would just you know, got to stay hungry and

1059
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 1: you know, you got to strike while the iron's hot

1060
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: or whatever cliche you use. Like, I just and now

1061
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: that I kind of take time to survey everything, and

1062
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: I like where I'm at and I like what I'm doing,

1063
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,919
Speaker 1: but I feel like I feel like I didn't deal

1064
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: with sort of what happened or what didn't happen. And

1065
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: I think as a result, yeah, and so there's like

1066
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: this like I didn't I didn't win championships, I didn't

1067
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 1: stay on this trajectory of where I was going with

1068
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: my career. And really the process of writing the book

1069
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 1: really kind of helped me realize that. And so I

1070
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: think this drive, like so the drive, you know, the

1071
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,800
Speaker 1: drive can be good. You know, we reward ambition, we rewarded,

1072
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:06,439
Speaker 1: but I haven't. I'm learning to the work life balance part.

1073
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 1: And that's something I don't think I've done a good

1074
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: job of, and so I'm trying to sort of correct

1075
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: that and be more intentional about you know, it's okay

1076
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 1: to work hard, but it's also you know, you got

1077
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: to have balance in your life and and so so anyway,

1078
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: the book I think helped me with you know, coming

1079
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 1: to that realization of that very.

1080
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 3: Champion and Cary Champion is to be a champion out

1081
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 3: a champion and carry chapion and carry chappy out a

1082
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 3: champion and carry chapion and carry chafby afraid.

1083
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 2: Is the sports and entertainment can nake you weird?

1084
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 3: Harry, Champion and carry champion is to be a champion,

1085
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 3: a champion and carry champion, nigger, lady choun a champion

1086
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 3: and carry champion and carry chappy raised afraid of the

1087
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 3: sports and entertainment can na get weird.

1088
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 2: I can't even understand what it would mean right too.

1089
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 2: Went on the collegiate level and talk about college and

1090
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 2: broad strokes in a minute. For me, the college game

1091
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 2: and your contribution, but not to win on a professional

1092
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 2: level seems to be painful for so many players. But

1093
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 2: then I look at players like Kobe and he still

1094
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 2: regrets not getting one over Jordan, you know what I mean?

1095
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 2: Like Bay rest in peace, that was his Like God,

1096
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 2: I hate I had to retire before I couldn't even

1097
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 2: get the number the same or one over Jordan. So

1098
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 2: do you think most players feel that way or is

1099
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 2: it a special type of player like a grand heel

1100
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 2: or a I think of great players like Vince Carter

1101
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 2: who didn't win or even shocked for that matter, he

1102
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 2: didn't want a chip, but they contribute to the game

1103
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 2: in such a way and they're still Hall of famers

1104
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 2: as you are, and still considered the best at what

1105
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: they did during that time. Do you ever make peace

1106
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 2: with the fact that you didn't get a championship in

1107
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 2: the NBA?

1108
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I can't speak for those I mean,

1109
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: I know Vince and Chuck very well. I don't I

1110
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: haven't had a sort of a deep naked conversation with

1111
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: them on this subject matter. But I can speak to myself.

1112
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought I had I thought I was good,

1113
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: Like I thought that I was at peace with my

1114
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: career and what happened and went unfolded, and I think

1115
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 1: I realized that maybe I'm not totally at peace. And

1116
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 1: there's that void, and okay, what do you replace that

1117
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: void with? And you know, some people can have a

1118
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: void in something, and you know it can be something

1119
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: toxic or something dangerous can be drugs out whatever I mean.

1120
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: But I just think, like I think, like I said,

1121
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: in recent years, I realized like it's it's this like

1122
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 1: incredible desire to prove myself to myself, you know in

1123
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: a way, and so learning to kind of manage that

1124
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 1: and and you know, understanding that because I think what happens.

1125
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't speak for those guys, but I

1126
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 1: think I think sometimes we naturally focus on what we

1127
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: didn't do, you know, or what we don't have, sure,

1128
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: and and as opposed to really sort of having a

1129
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: feeling of gratitude and appreciation for what you do have.

1130
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: And you know, when I was in Detroit and you know,

1131
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: I was doing all these things, and I had a

1132
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: lot of individual success and on and off the court,

1133
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 1: I didn't give myself permission to enjoy it because we

1134
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: weren't winning. We weren't like we didn't win, and I

1135
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: blamed myself for us not winning. So I didn't really

1136
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: like appreciate the good and appreciate what was happening. And

1137
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: you know, to me, like like at Duke, you love

1138
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: or hate Duke whatever, I mean, that's one thing, but

1139
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: like it was all about winning, and that was what

1140
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: we were conditioned to believe. I didn't care about individual stats,

1141
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't care. Like it was just whatever

1142
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: we have to do to win. And then I go

1143
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: into the NBA and all this other stuff, which is great,

1144
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: but I didn't care. But like, to me, the most

1145
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: important thing was winning, and we weren't winning, and so

1146
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: I couldn't enjoy all this other stuff. And so the

1147
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: writing of the book forces you to go back and

1148
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: live in certain moments and live, you know, and confront

1149
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 1: things good and bad about your past. I didn't appreciate

1150
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: how good. I mean that sounds real arrogant, but like

1151
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: I didn't appreciate how good I was when I was

1152
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: in Detroit because we weren't winning. And now I go

1153
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: back at it and I look at it, and even

1154
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: watching old tapes, I would watch games to kind of

1155
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 1: conjure up you know, memories and things whatever, and I'm like, damn,

1156
01:00:57,840 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: I was actually all right.

1157
01:00:58,720 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 2: Like I was.

1158
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at it like you know, more

1159
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: than I know. I'm just saying I didn't see that,

1160
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: or I didn't look at it that way at the

1161
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: time because I'm chasing Isaiah, you know, Isaiah was a

1162
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: gold standard I'm chasing. I looked at Isaiah's banner before

1163
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 1: every game like that, to me was what I was pursuing.

1164
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: And anything less was was you know, it was was

1165
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 1: was was uh, you know, a failure and so and

1166
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 1: so anyway to go back with you know, look at

1167
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 1: it through a different lens, with with you know, greater appreciation,

1168
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: you know, it was it was surprising. I didn't expect it,

1169
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: but it was almost one of those things was like whoa,

1170
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 1: Like yeah, and I in a way I kind of

1171
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: needed that, like I needed to see that and realize

1172
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 1: that because you know, I looked at you know, those

1173
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: years as you know, as almost a failure. It's a

1174
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: total failure. I don't know if I'm making sense.

1175
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 2: But you're making complete sense. Everything you're saying is to me,

1176
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 2: I may mirror this back for a second, because this

1177
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 2: is a message no matter when we're in the midst

1178
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 2: of whatever it is we're trying to achieve. We're doing

1179
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,439
Speaker 2: such great things, but we're such a society of more, more,

1180
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 2: more and more, and we don't know how to appreciate

1181
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 2: the moment as opposed to thinking about more and more

1182
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 2: and more. And I think that goes across every field,

1183
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 2: whether you're an NBA player, you're a journalist, you're a you,

1184
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 2: you know, your corporate work, whatever it is, you're a producer,

1185
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 2: whatever it may be, and then you look back on

1186
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 2: it because on the outside looking in, like I I,

1187
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 2: I would be hard pressed to tell you that you

1188
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 2: didn't help me love college basketball.

1189
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 4: It would be a lie. When I when I when

1190
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 4: I think.

1191
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 2: About why I fell in love with college basketball, even

1192
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 2: before I got to college, it was because of players

1193
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 2: like you and Christian Latner and and you can go

1194
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 2: fab five like you can go down a list right

1195
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 2: of like why I fell in love with this amateur

1196
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 2: you know in air quotes game, and and it was

1197
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,120
Speaker 2: because of you like you were. You're a part of

1198
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 2: what I call Americana, right, that's pop culture. If we

1199
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 2: did a book on what the NCAA was and what

1200
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 2: it is today or how glorious and period seemed back

1201
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 2: then before we all knew what it was, you would

1202
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 2: be in that book. And so my question for you now,

1203
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 2: like you look at the college game, Coach k just retired,

1204
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 2: I know that you have an affinity for him.

1205
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 4: I'm watching him.

1206
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 2: Roy Williams, Jay Wright, all of these ogs, these coaches right,

1207
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 2: for folks who are listening, Jay Wright coach was head

1208
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 2: coach at Villanova, Roy Williams u and c A coach

1209
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 2: k Duke. You're watching these coaches retire within a matter

1210
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 2: of a year or two of one another.

1211
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:39,959
Speaker 4: Whatever.

1212
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 2: It's because the game has changed. I'll pun intended because

1213
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 2: that's the name of your book. So you look at

1214
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 2: the game now with nil, right, what do you think

1215
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 2: about the college These deals are getting crazy and I'm

1216
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 2: not mad, but I'm like, what does that mean? These

1217
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 2: kids have agents now before they even get to play

1218
01:03:58,720 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 2: their very first game.

1219
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 4: How do you feel about that?

1220
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean the state of intercollegiate athletics and

1221
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 1: really basketball. I think in college football in general is changing,

1222
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: and it's changing so quickly and rapidly that it's kind

1223
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: of hard to process. I think the game has really

1224
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: changed and evolved even prior to NIL. You talked about

1225
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: that sort of golden era in the nineties early nineties,

1226
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 1: and you know, UNLV Vegas, all these great teams. You know,

1227
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 1: guys were there for more than one year. And so

1228
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 1: whether you loved or hated Duke, or loved or hated

1229
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 1: Carolina or loved or hated the Fab five. You watched

1230
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: them over multiple years and you saw, you know, you

1231
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: saw that story unfold. And now in an era where

1232
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, he's a great guys and you know, leaving

1233
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,520
Speaker 1: early one and done, you just don't have the same

1234
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 1: emotional attachment or connection with with with these teams because

1235
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: these players aren't there long enough. And now you throw

1236
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: in nil, you throw in the transfer portal. You know,

1237
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: I'm hearing that things. You know, in California, they may

1238
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 1: try to enact a law with you know, making it

1239
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: legal for pay for play at California universities, which would

1240
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: even change it even more so. And so it's it's

1241
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 1: it's kind of gone bonkers. It's like the wild wild

1242
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: West right now, and I think everybody is trying to

1243
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 1: figure out how to play in that sandbox. But you're seeing,

1244
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: you know, Roy Williams, Coach K, Jay Wright, in the

1245
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: span of one year, all these legends, these icons who've

1246
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 1: really contributed to the game and have been hugely successful.

1247
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: I think part of it was age. I think Coach

1248
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 1: K is time, but you know, Jay Wright was still young.

1249
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 1: Jay Wright still had a lot of runway.

1250
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 4: He well is he here, he's sixty. Is that young?

1251
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, you know he's got another at least

1252
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: five years, you know, And and so it's it's scary,

1253
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 1: you know. And and I don't know what the future

1254
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 1: looks like. I don't know what five years from now

1255
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: looks like. But I think I think you potentially you

1256
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: see it, you know U c l a USC. I

1257
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 1: know you're in California going into the Big Ten now,

1258
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, some of that tradition that has been a

1259
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: part of college sports. With the realignment and such, it's changing,

1260
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's you know, I'm all for

1261
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 1: players having an opportunity to to profit, you know. And

1262
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember I wanted to buy my jersey

1263
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: from the Duke Bookstore and I wanted to give it

1264
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: to my dad for fathers, I don't know, give it

1265
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 1: to him for Christmas or whatever. And I went into

1266
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 1: the bookstore and it was like one hundred and twenty

1267
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: dollars for me to buy my jersey. And you know,

1268
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't go to the athletic department to have them

1269
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 1: give me a jersey because that's a violation. And so

1270
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking like, Okay, I want a piece of

1271
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 1: the money that they're making off my I just wanted

1272
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 1: to be able to get my own jersey for free,

1273
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 1: Like that was what I was thinking in nineteen ninety two.

1274
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 4: And wait a second.

1275
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety two year jersey was one hundred and

1276
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 2: how much dollars to go buy for your dad?

1277
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: It was one hundred and something dollars, and I remember

1278
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: I bought it for my dad, and it just it

1279
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 1: dawned on me like wow, like like I wasn't even

1280
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 1: thinking like man, like they're making this. I was just like,

1281
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:34,479
Speaker 1: I got to pay for my own jersey, like I didn't.

1282
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 1: That didn't sit right with me. And now you fast

1283
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 1: forward to some of these nil deals where guys are

1284
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 1: making you know, they're making more money than the professionals

1285
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: make in some cases. And so it's right soul though,

1286
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 1: but it's an interesting dynamic, and I'm not saying it's wrong.

1287
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:56,919
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's an interesting dynamic, and I think

1288
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 1: people don't know how to take it and really how

1289
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: to navigate it. And so it's changing the landscape. It's

1290
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 1: changing as a coach, how you recruit, how you prepare,

1291
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 1: how you you know, when I came up. You know,

1292
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: coach k signed Christian Latner one year, then he signed

1293
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 1: Bobby Hurley the next year, then he signed me, and

1294
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 1: he felt like he had his big his point guard

1295
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 1: and then his wing player, and you know he filled

1296
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: in around that, and you know it gave us a

1297
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 1: chance to be successful. Well, obviously, you know, one and done.

1298
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: You can't prepare that way, at least he hasn't in

1299
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 1: the last decade. So you have to adapt and adjust

1300
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 1: with the times, which he did a great job of.

1301
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 1: But I think moving forward in football and basketball and

1302
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 1: really at all sports, you know these collectives you know

1303
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 1: are alumni, are they going to get involved in contribute?

1304
01:08:52,320 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 1: Are you going to allocate money for athletes? Like it's

1305
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: it's it requires you to adapt and adjust if you

1306
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:02,639
Speaker 1: want to be successful. And so it's a little bit scattered.

1307
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of the wild wild West. But

1308
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: I do think in time, I'm hopeful that it'll kind

1309
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 1: of you know, it'll get to a point where everyone

1310
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:14,879
Speaker 1: can operate in this new model that's been created.

1311
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 2: I think it's very I think what you said was

1312
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 2: probably the most simple but most articular thing. It's hard

1313
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 2: to respond because you don't know what it is, but

1314
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 2: you're correct in terms of it's getting more complicated. And

1315
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 2: that's why I think I'm seeing like that's why I

1316
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:32,719
Speaker 2: think Jay Wright left. I'm a guess. I just feel

1317
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:33,760
Speaker 2: like he was like, I don't want to deal with that.

1318
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 2: This this is not the game that I know. And

1319
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 2: if I have to start being someone who is an

1320
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 2: expert on nil deals, that part I can't give my

1321
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 2: brain to, right. I just want to focus on x's

1322
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,600
Speaker 2: and o's and get a chip. That part gets so

1323
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:53,240
Speaker 2: complicated because it's so new and there are no strict

1324
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 2: rules yet there's loopholes and kids can do this, and

1325
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 2: kids could do that, And you.

1326
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 4: Talk about you.

1327
01:09:57,560 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 2: I want to UCLA and USC right, they go to

1328
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 2: the big they want more money. But when I hear

1329
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 2: you tell me in nineteen ninety two year jersey costs

1330
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty dollars and you just wanted it

1331
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 2: for free, I get infuriated. I get so angry and

1332
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 2: shout out to my man Ed O'Bannon, who I know

1333
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 2: could have used that money and still could to this

1334
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 2: day use that money, right like as he as he

1335
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 2: put him hisself and you know, quote unquote on the

1336
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:24,640
Speaker 2: line to have this happen as it is.

1337
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 4: I think it's.

1338
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 2: Really interesting how it will affect the player themselves. I

1339
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:37,600
Speaker 2: think you're right. I'm not invested in teams anymore. I

1340
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 2: don't know these kids' names like you do because you

1341
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 2: probably cover the tournaments, but you have to learn them before.

1342
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 2: I remember watching you know, Chuck and and Ken. You

1343
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 2: talk about these kids and it's a new one, a

1344
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 2: new star every year. You don't know these who are okay?

1345
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 2: Who is this? You know?

1346
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 4: How okay?

1347
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: Y'all?

1348
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 2: Behind the scenes you get research packets and you're like, so,

1349
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 2: what's his name?

1350
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 4: And what do you know? Because it's so it just

1351
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 4: the turnover is quick. You don't know who they are.

1352
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 4: It's so fast, the one and done.

1353
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 2: And that's what I will miss, right, I will say

1354
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 2: I will miss that because I am not invested like

1355
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 2: I used to be.

1356
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:10,600
Speaker 4: Like I could watch you.

1357
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 2: I literally March Madness was my thing, Like that was

1358
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 2: where I wanted to be, watching you, into Chips Great,

1359
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:22,560
Speaker 2: watching UCLA even when I was there, Like this is

1360
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:27,719
Speaker 2: I was invested. And now I find like all things,

1361
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 2: one thing is constant, all things change. So you look

1362
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 2: at the league NBA, all these players want to do

1363
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 2: is get to the league. Get to the league, Get

1364
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:37,800
Speaker 2: to the league. And Lebron has changed the game you

1365
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 2: mentioned him, Has he changed the game for the better?

1366
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 2: Leamon Schumpert is quoted as saying, Lebron poked it up

1367
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 2: for everybody when he went to Miami. So you what

1368
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 2: do you think about this new NBA and we're gonna

1369
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 2: give to the old man.

1370
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:57,760
Speaker 4: Lebron has he has? He has he made it for

1371
01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 4: the better or for the worse.

1372
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 1: Well, you know, look, I also I wear many hats,

1373
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 1: and then one of them is, you know, co owner,

1374
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 1: vice chairman of the Atlanta Hall.

1375
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:12,840
Speaker 4: You can't get in particular exactly, yes, like don't get

1376
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:13,320
Speaker 4: me in trouble.

1377
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, But I mean I think look,

1378
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 1: I mean, as you said all things, you said it

1379
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 1: better than I'm going to say it. But you know,

1380
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 1: all things change, and things grow and evolve. And as

1381
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:28,320
Speaker 1: it relates to the NCAA, it's going through growth and

1382
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,759
Speaker 1: change and sometimes that can be painful, but also sometimes

1383
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:40,600
Speaker 1: that's necessary. And Lebron, you know, look, Lebron, his accomplishments

1384
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:45,840
Speaker 1: on the court speak for themselves. I think he came

1385
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 1: around in this sort of digital social media age, which

1386
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 1: I think has been good and bad in some respects.

1387
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 1: Good in the sense that it only amplifies and you know,

1388
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:01,639
Speaker 1: creates this connection and relationship and ship with fans, gives

1389
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:04,640
Speaker 1: him a voice he doesn't need to go through, you know,

1390
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:07,679
Speaker 1: a journalist to speak to an audience or to the world.

1391
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 1: I also think there's some some tough parts where you

1392
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:15,439
Speaker 1: hear all the noise and you hear the backlash, you

1393
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 1: hear the hate, or you see the hate, or you

1394
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 1: read the hate. You know, when I play, you know,

1395
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:25,560
Speaker 1: really it was only you know, the print media and

1396
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 1: you know sports talk radio, and you know there was

1397
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 1: a gauntlet of editors that you know, had to to

1398
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:36,799
Speaker 1: to you know, to read through things before they were printed.

1399
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 1: And yeah, I didn't necessarily listen to talk radio or

1400
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 1: sports talk radio in the nineties. Now, you know, someone

1401
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 1: gonna say Lebron, you know, and say something bad about

1402
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 1: his mom or his his wife or his kids. And

1403
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: these players today see that and and so that that's

1404
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 1: hard and we didn't have to endure that. But you know,

1405
01:13:56,439 --> 01:13:58,880
Speaker 1: I do think he stood on the shoulders of Michael

1406
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:02,759
Speaker 1: Jordan and he took it to another level in terms

1407
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 1: of ownership in terms of control, you know, in terms

1408
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 1: of really leveraging this platform you have in the NBA.

1409
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 1: The NBA is a global media and public relations firm.

1410
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 1: That's what they do well. They promote in market players

1411
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:26,839
Speaker 1: all over the world. I remember when I did Inside

1412
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 1: Stuff and with Kristin Ledlow. We did it for a

1413
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:34,600
Speaker 1: few years, and you know, we would we would tape it.

1414
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 1: First of all, she's a pro. I was learning at

1415
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 1: the time, but you know, it was a half hour

1416
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 1: Well I appreciate it. It was a half hour show.

1417
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 1: It would take us like an hour and a half

1418
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:43,480
Speaker 1: of take, like literally.

1419
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:46,559
Speaker 4: And mostly that's okay, Yeah, that's okay.

1420
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:49,760
Speaker 1: We got to the first run. But they would do

1421
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 1: an international ending to the show every week, and and

1422
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 1: we would always kind of roll our eyes, like, oh,

1423
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 1: why do we have to do this, and blah blah blah.

1424
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: It was like a generic ending. And then I went

1425
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 1: to South Africa with my wife and we were there

1426
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 1: in like twenty sixteen, and it was October, so before

1427
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 1: the basketball season, and they're playing Inside Stuff in the

1428
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:16,000
Speaker 1: hotel room and like I'm going around, you know, Johannesburg,

1429
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 1: and people are calling me mister Inside Stuff, and so

1430
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:21,760
Speaker 1: like to me, it's just like and so when we

1431
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 1: came back, we're like, hey, we got to get these

1432
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 1: international goodbyes, right, we get my makeup done. But like,

1433
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 1: it just speaks to how global the game is and

1434
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,600
Speaker 1: and Lebron, So, you know, I think the game's in

1435
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 1: a good place. I think Lebron is sort of a

1436
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 1: one of a kind athlete in a lot of ways.

1437
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:42,799
Speaker 1: I don't know if we'll have another kind of Lebron

1438
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:47,840
Speaker 1: who who just understands his power and his value and

1439
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:55,040
Speaker 1: I think strategically made moves that really elevated his profile

1440
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,559
Speaker 1: and his bottom line along the way. So I don't

1441
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:01,680
Speaker 1: think it's a let mean, look, I tried to leave

1442
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 1: and go to Orlando, and Tim Duncan was gonna go,

1443
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:07,600
Speaker 1: and Tracy McGrady and you know, obviously Duncan didn't go,

1444
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:12,719
Speaker 1: and I you know, I was hurt. But so leaving

1445
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:17,160
Speaker 1: and going to Miami, he has that right. You know,

1446
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 1: he gets criticized, I think for it, but he has

1447
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:21,320
Speaker 1: the right to do that as every player. And look,

1448
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 1: when my dad played, just understand this. So my dad

1449
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 1: played for the Cowboys and he left to go to

1450
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:32,679
Speaker 1: the World Football League, which was a new upstart League

1451
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: and seventy five. I think around seventy four to seventy

1452
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:40,360
Speaker 1: five he got sued by the Cowboys and he ended

1453
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 1: up countersuing and went and he won. But that was

1454
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:46,519
Speaker 1: a period where athletes didn't have the right. They didn't

1455
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 1: have free agency. You weren't allowed to go elsewhere when

1456
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 1: your contract expired. That team owned your rights, they could

1457
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 1: trade you, but you didn't have that opportunity. So you know, yeah,

1458
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:00,599
Speaker 1: I mean we're standing on the shoulders of giants who

1459
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:03,360
Speaker 1: paid the way and made those sacrifices. So he had

1460
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 1: every right to go to Miami. He may not like

1461
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 1: how he went about it, but you know, he had

1462
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:10,360
Speaker 1: every right to do that, and he had every right

1463
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 1: to go back to Cleveland and go to LA And

1464
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 1: but you know, he's been an incredible player and incredible ambassador.

1465
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 1: He's delivered on the expectations, maybe even exceeding him, which

1466
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 1: is very rare, particularly with someone who came in with

1467
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:32,600
Speaker 1: as much fanfare as he did. And he's going to

1468
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,679
Speaker 1: be missed when he's gone, When he retires and walks away.

1469
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 2: The NBA television rights, everything is going to take a hit.

1470
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:41,880
Speaker 2: You're gonna see dips, say what you want. He's the

1471
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:43,760
Speaker 2: most loved to be hated and the most hated to

1472
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 2: be loved. But I'm telling you, at this moment, he

1473
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:50,120
Speaker 2: and I'm not saying that just because he plays for Lakers,

1474
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:51,920
Speaker 2: but I will tell you I'm the typical fan. I

1475
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:54,160
Speaker 2: couldn't stand until he became a Laker. I think you

1476
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 2: guys do too hard on Lebron. I think efveryone's too

1477
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:57,840
Speaker 2: hard on Lebron. Like but just last week you hated it,

1478
01:17:57,840 --> 01:17:59,599
Speaker 2: and I said, that's not the point, that's not the point.

1479
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 4: But you are correct. He has taught.

1480
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:05,560
Speaker 2: What he has taught every player is that they have

1481
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 2: leverage and that they can if if in fact, they

1482
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:11,160
Speaker 2: can produce on the court, and they are a grand

1483
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 2: hill if you will. He has leverage, and he was fearless.

1484
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 2: He was fearless. He moved fearlessly. He has moved fearlessly

1485
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 2: in this league and take and taking all the hits.

1486
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:24,640
Speaker 2: And while I think time will tell his story in

1487
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 2: the way in which you all you and I see him,

1488
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 2: I often wonder how much has that affected his psyche,

1489
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:33,560
Speaker 2: because I'm sure it has his family as well. He

1490
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 2: acts like it's not a big deal, but you got

1491
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 2: you got it. But like you said, he can hear it,

1492
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,479
Speaker 2: he can see it, he could read it. Now they're

1493
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,800
Speaker 2: going after your kids. They're not just going after you,

1494
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:44,160
Speaker 2: They're going after your wife. They're going after your kids.

1495
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, hands off. Like to me, there's just you

1496
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:49,639
Speaker 2: draw a line some places. You don't talk about people's families,

1497
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

1498
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 1: No, I agree, But I think what happens is is

1499
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:57,599
Speaker 1: that you know, and I don't know if this applies

1500
01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 1: to Lebron, but I think I think a lot of

1501
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 1: guys they hear the noise, they see the noise, and

1502
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 1: they put everybody in the same bucket, and you know,

1503
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:13,840
Speaker 1: and so and you become cynical and and you know,

1504
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:19,720
Speaker 1: like there's credible journalists out there who I think have integrity, uh,

1505
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 1: and I think want to get to a deeper meeting

1506
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 1: and really want to be objective. But I think there's

1507
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:26,639
Speaker 1: a lack of trust with some of the athletes today,

1508
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:28,600
Speaker 1: with some members of the media. And I think some

1509
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 1: of it stems from just the noise and and all that,

1510
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 1: and so you you become defensive. You're not as well

1511
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:38,160
Speaker 1: like there was a relationship. Like I'll give you an example,

1512
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:40,040
Speaker 1: so I cover I do games for T and T

1513
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 1: and back in the day when you know when when

1514
01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:47,280
Speaker 1: when they would come and broadcast a game, you'd sit

1515
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:50,759
Speaker 1: down for an interview and they would play that interview

1516
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 1: clip during the game. That doesn't happen anymore. And and

1517
01:19:56,200 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 1: it's almost like one in part because whatever it needs

1518
01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:00,720
Speaker 1: to be said, they can just say it, you know,

1519
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 1: on their own platforms. They don't need to talk with

1520
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 1: But it's just a it's an interesting dynamic. And I

1521
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 1: think there's just a lot of noise and a lot

1522
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:12,080
Speaker 1: of criticism.

1523
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 2: Uh.

1524
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:16,000
Speaker 1: And I think it's it's sensationalized a bit, and I

1525
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:18,280
Speaker 1: think it plays on the mental psyche of athletes and

1526
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:22,479
Speaker 1: no question, and that's something I'm not a fan of.

1527
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:27,640
Speaker 2: Mmm, I'm with you. I'm in agreement. I I you know,

1528
01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:30,320
Speaker 2: I'm also guilty, But I'm in agreement. I'm also guilty

1529
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:31,880
Speaker 2: of talking on the side of my neck every now

1530
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:32,240
Speaker 2: and again.

1531
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:34,559
Speaker 4: So I try. I try. I learned from my mistakes.

1532
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:36,800
Speaker 2: I gotta be honest, like because I've never played the game,

1533
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 2: so I can't I can't say certain things.

1534
01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 4: There are certain things I can't say.

1535
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 2: I said, I remember, and I don't know if you

1536
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 2: remember when I was on Sports Center, I said, I

1537
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 2: just wouldn't start my team with Kevin Durant. He doesn't

1538
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:51,840
Speaker 2: have enough heart. And this is when he was with Oklahoma,

1539
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 2: and it was like it was think pieces and she

1540
01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:56,640
Speaker 2: crazy and that's why women shouldn't be on TV and

1541
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:58,759
Speaker 2: send her back to the kitchen. I mean, I got roasted.

1542
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:01,519
Speaker 2: There was at one point in which my producer thought,

1543
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:03,439
Speaker 2: which I'm glad that we decided not to.

1544
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 4: He was like, oh, I think maybe you should apologize,

1545
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 4: and the bosses.

1546
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:08,120
Speaker 2: Were like, no, we pay to have an opinion. If

1547
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:10,200
Speaker 2: that's her opinion, she's doing a top five list and

1548
01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:13,640
Speaker 2: she's not gonna a k that's just her choice. But

1549
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 2: it was really heavy. But it got even worse. That

1550
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:18,680
Speaker 2: was the year that they were up three to one

1551
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 2: in the conference finals against Golden State, and you know

1552
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 2: what happened after that, right, they lost, and then he

1553
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:27,439
Speaker 2: went to Golden State, and then there was all this

1554
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:33,000
Speaker 2: conversation about, well, maybe she wasn't wrong, right, but at

1555
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:35,960
Speaker 2: the same time it was more of a personal attack

1556
01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 2: as opposed to statistically or professionally or on the court.

1557
01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:41,280
Speaker 4: Why I wouldn't choose him?

1558
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:41,680
Speaker 1: Right?

1559
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:44,519
Speaker 2: That taught me that if I do have a criticism,

1560
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:46,040
Speaker 2: I have to keep it on the court. It ain't

1561
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:51,800
Speaker 2: about this you not this goon, if you will talk

1562
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:55,280
Speaker 2: about what it looks like. So so, having said that,

1563
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,439
Speaker 2: you're right, I don't blame them for being the new media.

1564
01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:00,840
Speaker 2: The new media, now, grant ain't you and me? Well

1565
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:02,680
Speaker 2: kind of because I because I say what I want

1566
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:05,080
Speaker 2: on my podcast. But the new media is the I

1567
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:07,920
Speaker 2: Am Athlete podcast and the pivots of the world and

1568
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:10,960
Speaker 2: the uninterrupteds of the world. These are they're like, okay,

1569
01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 2: we're gonna flip, you know, and they and they're missing

1570
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:16,880
Speaker 2: some very tangible parts. Very few athletes. You're one of

1571
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 2: the few, I think, and I'm going to tell you

1572
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 2: this that could play the game and then be an

1573
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:25,880
Speaker 2: impartial journalist. That's a hard thing to learn, Like, it

1574
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 2: really is a difficult spot to put you in as

1575
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:31,280
Speaker 2: a player, as a former player, to talk about other players,

1576
01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:33,600
Speaker 2: good or bad. Right, it's just a tough spot. And

1577
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:38,080
Speaker 2: now we're watching these guys take ownership, as you said back,

1578
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 2: and it is the game is changing, and I and

1579
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:42,599
Speaker 2: for the better in my opinion.

1580
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:46,040
Speaker 1: Well, so, well, first of all, its thought to your

1581
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 1: point where you said and I appreciate you you being

1582
01:22:48,439 --> 01:22:51,719
Speaker 1: forthcoming and sharing your experience and what you said about

1583
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:55,080
Speaker 1: Duran and you know, look, they would hit jobs back

1584
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:57,960
Speaker 1: in the day. I mean Peter Vessi, you know, yes,

1585
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 1: he went everybody and it was personal. I think the

1586
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:05,680
Speaker 1: difference is is technology now, and particularly social media, So

1587
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:08,560
Speaker 1: if you say something on air, it's going to be

1588
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 1: amplified and it's going to be all over the place,

1589
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 1: and then people are going to chime in and in

1590
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:18,440
Speaker 1: either side with you and just give it more oxygen.

1591
01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:21,439
Speaker 1: And so to me, you know, I look at you know,

1592
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:23,559
Speaker 1: Charles and those guys, I mean Charles and those guys

1593
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:27,120
Speaker 1: for twenty plus years have been you know, taking shots

1594
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:29,280
Speaker 1: at people and being funny and humorous and so on

1595
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:33,360
Speaker 1: and so forth. But then with like the Javelle McGee situation,

1596
01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:38,479
Speaker 1: you know, that became something because it was bad and

1597
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 1: it was unfortunate, but I think part of it was

1598
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 1: there's more oxygen around it. And so now you hear it,

1599
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 1: you see it, you read it, you see the tweets,

1600
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:50,720
Speaker 1: and so that's what's changed the game. I think in

1601
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:53,680
Speaker 1: some respects it's just all the noise you know that

1602
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:58,280
Speaker 1: surrounds and all the opinions that you know that at

1603
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:01,200
Speaker 1: times are hard to run from Grant Hill.

1604
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:05,880
Speaker 2: You've given me more than enough time. I'm going to

1605
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:08,960
Speaker 2: ask your mail for your information because I do want

1606
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:11,519
Speaker 2: to check on you family wise, make sure everything is

1607
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:14,800
Speaker 2: all good. But I thank you for joining us. Everybody listening,

1608
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:16,280
Speaker 2: go and get this book. If you want this deep

1609
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 2: intellectual thought from this this authentic human being, it's game.

1610
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:22,759
Speaker 2: You can get it anywhere, right, I can go on Amazon,

1611
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:26,240
Speaker 2: I can do it on my You did an audiobook, No, right,

1612
01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:29,000
Speaker 2: I love audiobook because you know, we just in a

1613
01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:30,559
Speaker 2: car and we got to drive and do our thing

1614
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:31,080
Speaker 2: real quick.

1615
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:33,880
Speaker 4: I like it and anything else you're working on you

1616
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 4: want to let people know about.

1617
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean no, not right now. I'm it's

1618
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 1: wherever books are sold. Like you said, it's an audio version.

1619
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:47,280
Speaker 1: And yeah, stay tuned. There may be an opportunity to

1620
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:50,080
Speaker 1: come back on Naked again here in the near future.

1621
01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell good something juicy, Okay, all right, all right,

1622
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:57,240
Speaker 2: give all the love to the family. Your mom included,

1623
01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 2: your wife, your dad. They did a good job. They

1624
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:00,599
Speaker 2: did a good job with your kiddo.

1625
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:02,640
Speaker 1: I'm proud of you, appreciate.

1626
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 2: I'm I'm so glad I had This is honestly the

1627
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 2: first time on my podcast that I had the opportunity

1628
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 2: to sit and talk with Grant and I and I

1629
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:15,240
Speaker 2: thought it was special. He is just a great guy,

1630
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 2: and I keep saying that because it's so rare and

1631
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:21,360
Speaker 2: the story of how he met his wife. I would

1632
01:25:21,400 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 2: like to Nita Baker to hook me up if you

1633
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:28,519
Speaker 2: listen to any sweet Love, don't you and the girl

1634
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 2: Oh wait It'll always.

1635
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 4: Be this way a ah, Okay, I'm not a singer,

1636
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:34,680
Speaker 4: but you get it.

1637
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:40,200
Speaker 2: And then the fact that I watch him be the father,

1638
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:43,840
Speaker 2: the husband, the friend that he is said to be

1639
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 2: to everyone really made this podcast special for me. So Grant,

1640
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:49,760
Speaker 2: I thank you for coming on. I also thank you

1641
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:52,560
Speaker 2: guys for letting me talk about Deshaun Watson. There's so

1642
01:25:52,720 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 2: much more to that story and I'm still unpacking how

1643
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:01,040
Speaker 2: I feel and processing my thoughts because there are a

1644
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:02,520
Speaker 2: lot of lives affected.

1645
01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:03,479
Speaker 4: And so much trauma.

1646
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 2: We cover this stuff like it doesn't matter, but there

1647
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:08,400
Speaker 2: are real individuals involved in this case that are suffering.

1648
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 2: And I'm not even talking about just the women. What

1649
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:15,160
Speaker 2: about Deshaun's family members, his mother, his father, his family

1650
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 2: his friends, those who care about him, who see him

1651
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:19,080
Speaker 2: as one way and feel as if he's being attacked

1652
01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:22,679
Speaker 2: and treated poorly. Coming to the realization that the person

1653
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:24,680
Speaker 2: you know and have known for so long isn't who

1654
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:28,760
Speaker 2: you think they are is really traumatic. If in fact,

1655
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:32,640
Speaker 2: that has happened for his family and friends, life is

1656
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:36,000
Speaker 2: not easy. That's why it's important for us to be

1657
01:26:36,120 --> 01:26:39,160
Speaker 2: good to each other. I am imploring every single day

1658
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:41,920
Speaker 2: kindness and trying to be more and more kind. The

1659
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:45,080
Speaker 2: reputation that I have isn't necessarily kind. It's straight up

1660
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:47,679
Speaker 2: into the point. Although there's nothing wrong with being straight

1661
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:49,840
Speaker 2: up into the point. There's nothing wrong with that is

1662
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 2: the word I'm trying to get out. But kindness prevails,

1663
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:56,599
Speaker 2: just like talent. Trump's all, thank y'all for listening, and naked.

1664
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:57,639
Speaker 2: I'll see y'all next week.