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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: If you can't trust your doctor, who can you trust

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Speaker 2: the thought of a doctor hovering over your unconscious body,

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Speaker 2: you got to really trust that person, right.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation

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Speaker 2: in series XM one eleven. First of all, take listen

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Speaker 2: to our Franzy, Casey and c.

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Speaker 3: According to this Denver police affi David, a woman met

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Speaker 3: up with Matthews after connecting with him on Hinge, a

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Speaker 3: dating app. They had brunch on a Sunday morning in January,

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Speaker 3: then walked to his West Denver townhouse. There, she said,

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Speaker 3: they hung out in his hot tub. Matthews later told

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Speaker 3: police they had consensual sex, but the woman says she

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Speaker 3: remembers none of that, has no recollection of having sex

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Speaker 3: with the doctor, only remembering finding herself hours later at

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Speaker 3: home with paramedics checking her out.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Did we mention the so called doctor she had a

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Speaker 2: date with is a leading cardiologist?

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 2: Okay, what exactly is happening and what is hinge?

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Speaker 1: With me?

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Speaker 2: An all star panel to make sense of what we

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Speaker 2: know right now? First of all, Lee and Newbecker joining

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Speaker 2: us a digital forensics expert, President of Enigma Forensics. You

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Speaker 2: can find him at Leeneubecker dot com. Lee, thank you

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Speaker 2: for being with us. What is hinge well?

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Speaker 4: Hinge is one of many social dating websites out there.

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Speaker 4: Markets itself has been the last app you need that

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Speaker 4: you'll find someone and delete the app and live happily.

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Speaker 2: Ever Elster, oh, hey, that is a great marketing tool.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills.

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Speaker 2: You can find he right, Doctorbethanymarshall dot com. Don't pooh

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Speaker 2: pooh online dating. My nephew met his now wife online.

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Speaker 2: He dated a lot of other ladies he met online.

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Speaker 2: They got married, they just had their second son and

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Speaker 2: bought a home, so that's working out. However, you do

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Speaker 2: meet a lot of nuts.

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Speaker 5: Online, Nancy. You have to have really good antennas when

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Speaker 5: you go online. But you're not all we're all not

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Speaker 5: forensic experts like our previous guest was. You know, I

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Speaker 5: think of this is this is a wonderful tool, a

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Speaker 5: dating tool, right And the more, as I say to

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Speaker 5: my patients all the time, the more tools you have

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Speaker 5: in your toolbox, the better. So if you're going to date.

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Speaker 5: A good tool is self love. A good tool is

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Speaker 5: good judgment, knowing to how to evaluate another person on

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Speaker 5: a date, receptivity, generosity, optimism towards the future. Knowing where

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Speaker 5: to meet people is an excellent tool, but this tool

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Speaker 5: has become a feeding ground for predators, crazy people who

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Speaker 5: want something other than dating. And just a quick comment

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Speaker 5: about that. What I hear from my patients is that

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Speaker 5: they don't know how to distinguish between somebody who wants

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Speaker 5: to go on a date because they want a bright

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Speaker 5: future with another person, or somebody who's just looking for sex,

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Speaker 5: somebody who just wants to hook up, or somebody who

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Speaker 5: just wants a friend and this is their only way

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Speaker 5: to make a friend. So it's hard to ferret that

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Speaker 5: out at the beginning. Let alone, if you're going to

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Speaker 5: be on the date with a sex predator or a monster.

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Speaker 1: Well wait a minute, wait a minute, lead Meanbecker.

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Speaker 2: Let me follow up on doctor Bethany Marshall just said, Lee,

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Speaker 2: wouldn't you say that as a matter of perception anyway,

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Speaker 2: there's a big difference between, for instance, plenty of fish

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Speaker 2: and tender.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you just have to you have to inspect

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Speaker 4: your fish before you're real on men.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, but plenty of fits of the dating site right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's another one.

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Speaker 2: But I'm saying it is perceived as being about love

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Speaker 2: and relationships and finding your forever partner, as opposed to

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Speaker 2: other websites where it's basically a hookup.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, William a booty call.

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Speaker 2: I mean Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Why Bad

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Speaker 2: Looks Good that's a great name, by the way, and

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Speaker 2: author of Red Flags. She's at wendypatrickphd dot com and

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Speaker 2: she's the host of Today with Doctor Wendy at KC

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Speaker 2: b QT Wendy. There's a big difference, and here comes

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Speaker 2: the bride and a booty call.

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Speaker 6: That's exactly right. And some of these apps are geared

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Speaker 6: specifically to one group or the other. You've got at

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Speaker 6: e Harmony, You've got Christian Mingle, You've got places where

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Speaker 6: people are supposedly looking for long term, committed relationships versus

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Speaker 6: the hookup sites. So absolutely looking at where somebody's posting,

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Speaker 6: assuming they're not cross posting date right.

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Speaker 2: You know, there are romantic slash, let's get married websites,

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Speaker 2: and then there it's Tender and others Buffy.

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Speaker 5: Meets Bagel is one here in Los Angeles, Jay Date,

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Speaker 5: you know, Nancy. Here's the tricky thing is that the

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Speaker 5: people on the hookup sites don't want the other people

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Speaker 5: on the hookup sites, so they gravitate towards the dating

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Speaker 5: sites because those people, I think, no value judgment here,

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Speaker 5: but those people are a little more optimistic. They want

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Speaker 5: to spend little trying together, so they gravitate towards the

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Speaker 5: other sites and then they becometh hookup people on a

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Speaker 5: dating site.

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Speaker 6: They also want to exploit vulnerability. I agree exactly what

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Speaker 6: doctor Bethannie. They want to exploit the vulnerability of people

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Speaker 6: honestly looking for a relationship because they're going to be

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Speaker 6: more open to it. So that's a great point as well.

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Speaker 2: Also joining us Rachel Countryman, forensic nurse expert for Godoy

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Speaker 2: Medical Forensics. She's a sex assault nurse examiner, a saying

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Speaker 2: sex assault nurse examiner, Rachel, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Rachel.

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Speaker 2: You heard our friends speaking from Casey enc The woman

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Speaker 2: says she remembers nothing about consensual sex. She remembers meeting

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Speaker 2: up after a discussion or an interaction on Hinge dating app.

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Speaker 2: They go for what sounds like a nice day brunch

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Speaker 2: on Sunday morning, and then they walk to his West

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Speaker 2: Denver townhouse. They hung out in the hot tub. The

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Speaker 2: next thing she remembers is finding herself hours later at

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Speaker 2: home with paramedics checking her out. She has no recollection

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Speaker 2: of having sex with this top Denver cardiologist age thirty five.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like a wonderful, eligible bachelor. I mean, he's got

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Speaker 2: to be smart because he got through med school. He

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Speaker 2: apparently has all of his teeth and full insurance.

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Speaker 1: So go for it, ladies.

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Speaker 2: So she wakes up in her own home with no

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Speaker 2: recollection of what happened. So, Rachel Countryman, how do you

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Speaker 2: know if you have been raped if you can't remember it?

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Speaker 7: Well, Nancy, I think that we need to point out

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Speaker 7: here that you know, sexual assault is a crime of

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Speaker 7: violence against a person's body and their will. Right they can't.

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Speaker 7: They can have physical trauma and significant mental anguish and suffering,

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Speaker 7: and especially in situations like this. So she went to

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Speaker 7: this person's apartment that she obviously had some trust in,

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Speaker 7: and she doesn't know what happened. That right there, makes

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Speaker 7: someone less likely to report they don't remember themselves what happened.

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Speaker 7: So how can they tell somebody else what happened to

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Speaker 7: them and be believed. So that's a huge part right there.

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Speaker 2: So why would she believe she had been raped? What

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Speaker 2: would lead a victim to believe they had been raped

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Speaker 2: when they can't remember anything?

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Speaker 7: Well, I think that victims report and end up going in. Remember,

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Speaker 7: a sexual assault forensic exam also known as a STATES

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Speaker 7: is a medical exam first and foremost, And it's not

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Speaker 7: going to show a proof that there was somebody was assaulted,

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Speaker 7: and it's not going to show proof that they were

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Speaker 7: even penetrated. I think the purpose of the exam is

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Speaker 7: to make sure they're okay and possibly collect some evidence

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Speaker 7: and that could possibly id the assailant. And you know,

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Speaker 7: with DNA results and stuff, we can then you know,

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Speaker 7: determine that there was sexual contact that occurred some things.

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Speaker 2: Wendy Patrick is California prosecutor, having prosecuted media rapes and

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Speaker 2: sex assault cases. Wendy, In addition to what the rape

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Speaker 2: victim says, there are other endisha of rapes, such as

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Speaker 2: you wake up and your underwear is on backwards or

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Speaker 2: inside out.

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Speaker 1: You wake up and.

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Speaker 2: Your underwear is torn, or your clothes are not back

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Speaker 2: on you correctly, or you're missing an article of undergarment,

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Speaker 2: your bra or your underwear. You may find blood or

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Speaker 2: sticky fluid, you may suffer pain, all sorts of indisha

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Speaker 2: that you were raped and you can't remember it.

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Speaker 6: That's exactly right, and that's one of the reasons start

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Speaker 6: exams can and be a tool among others. As you know,

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Speaker 6: when it comes to a consent defense, which is often

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Speaker 6: the case in these I don't remember much type of

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Speaker 6: scenarios where somebody has been drugged or they've had too

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Speaker 6: much a drink or one of the other things that

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Speaker 6: start exam can show is the type of contact nobody

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Speaker 6: would ever consent to. Anal injuries fall into this category

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Speaker 6: very frequently. So there's lots of reasons in addition to

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Speaker 6: what we just heard talking about the SAC and AA

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Speaker 6: can be collected, et cetera, that this can be one

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Speaker 6: of many tools to indicate unwanted sexual contact.

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Speaker 2: So we hear what this woman is saying, and so

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Speaker 2: far a rape case we cannot make out. We know

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Speaker 2: a little bit about her, but what do we know

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Speaker 2: about him? Take a listen to Brian Moss at case

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Speaker 2: and c the.

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Speaker 3: Woman had two mimosas at breakfast, then another at his

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Speaker 3: home along with two shots of tequila. Doctor Matthew's lawyer

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Speaker 3: says to his client and the woman had sensual sex

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Speaker 3: on their first date. That lifestyle can result in buyer's remorse,

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Speaker 3: jilted lovers, and tall tales, but the attorney said it

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Speaker 3: is not a crime.

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Speaker 8: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, please join us now on

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Speaker 8: Fox Nation for a brand new investigation, Parallels of Evil

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Speaker 8: the Bundy and Idaho killings. In this gripping special investigation,

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Speaker 8: we bring together an incredible panel of guests who analyze

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Speaker 8: disturbing similarities of evil between these horrible crimes. We speak

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Speaker 8: with two female Ted Bundy survivors, Karen Pryor and Cheryl Thomas,

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Speaker 8: who described their life before and after they were victims

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Speaker 8: of Ted Bundy. We also speak with the renowned private

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Speaker 8: investigator Bill Warner who worked the cases, and Ted Bundy's

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Speaker 8: defense attorney, John Henry Brown. We traveled to Moscow, Idaho,

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Speaker 8: to speak with Washington State University students and interview neighbors

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Speaker 8: of Brian Coburger. One neighbor shares exclusive insights about the

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Speaker 8: suspect in the Idaho killings, Brian Coburger. Don't miss Parallels

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Speaker 8: of Evil, the Bundy and Idaho Killings, streaming now exclusively

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Speaker 8: on Fox Nation.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now, Christopher Gavin, breaking news reporter for

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Speaker 2: The Messenger at The Messenger dot com.

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Speaker 1: Christopher, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Buyers remorse that lifestyle can result in buyers remorse, jilted lovers,

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Speaker 2: and tall tales.

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Speaker 1: But the lawyer says it's not a crime. Man.

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Speaker 2: I would have thought long and hard before I put

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Speaker 2: that statement out there. So the defense is buyers remorse.

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Speaker 2: What exactly does that mean, Christopher Gavin, That's what this

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Speaker 2: doctor has to say back.

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Speaker 9: Well, basically, you know that doctor Matthews had told police,

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Speaker 9: according to the affidavit, that to him and the woman

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Speaker 9: had contential sex. She vomited a few times after she

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Speaker 9: had some drinks. She offered her water but she declined,

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Speaker 9: and offered her a shower, but she accepted, and he

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Speaker 9: claimed that she was doing better after a while and

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Speaker 9: she called nouber and went home.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So, doctor Bethidy Marshall, in that scenario that Chris Gavin

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Speaker 2: with The Messenger accurately pointed out as having been the

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Speaker 2: outline the good doctor gave buyer's remorse. That lifestyle can

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Speaker 2: result in Buyer's remorse, jilted lovers and tall tales what she.

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Speaker 5: Thinks he's the best thing out there?

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Speaker 1: Waitte. But wait, how can that resonate with anybody?

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Speaker 5: Doesn't It points to his psycho pathology.

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Speaker 1: Buyer's remorse.

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Speaker 2: I don't think rape allegations by a victim are buyer's remorse, Nancy.

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Speaker 5: This speaks to motivation on his part. He thinks he

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Speaker 5: has rationalized that he is the best thing out there

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Speaker 5: and that she wanted him, and now she's regretting it.

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Speaker 5: But if you just think of the storyline of what

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Speaker 5: happened that night. He's a cardiologist, and then he gives

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Speaker 5: her water when she's thrown up three times. I mean,

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Speaker 5: we all know that she probably needed an IV At

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Speaker 5: that point, he puts her in the shower. Well, that's

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Speaker 5: not great, and then.

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Speaker 1: Get rid of that, get rid of us exactly.

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Speaker 5: And then she puts her in an uber. We all

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Speaker 5: know that even if you go for a colonoscopy or

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Speaker 5: any kind of medical procedure where you are put under anesthesia,

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Speaker 5: you're told to have a familiar person drive you home.

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Speaker 5: So he puts her in an uber and she's out

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Speaker 5: of it. I mean, it has wrong written all over

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Speaker 5: this story.

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Speaker 6: You know, I think buyer's remorse is the wrong analogy.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's one way of putting it.

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Speaker 2: I think they stuck their foot right in their mouth,

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Speaker 2: and I'd like to stick it somewhere else. But I mean,

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Speaker 2: you at very best have sex with a woman, she says,

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Speaker 2: she recalls nothing of it, and wakes up, and the

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Speaker 2: EMTs are working on her. She for whatever reason, believes

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Speaker 2: she's been raped. And the response is buyer's remorse, jilted lover,

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Speaker 2: Oh ha, double Lno, if the lawyer had any brains,

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Speaker 2: they would have said nothing. But if they felt they

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Speaker 2: had to speak, I would have exhibited caring and sympathy

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Speaker 2: for the female complainant instead of jilted.

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Speaker 4: Oh.

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Speaker 2: They better not put a single woman on that jury

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Speaker 2: if it ever comes to that, because that is going

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Speaker 2: to fall flat. What were you saying, Wendy Patrick, You.

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Speaker 6: Know the reason that's the wrong analogy is women don't

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Speaker 6: claim rape as the result of a bad date. When

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Speaker 6: you claim rape and you are interviewed and everything that

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Speaker 6: goes along with that, you're on trial and you're in

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Speaker 6: the spotlight, and that is not where sexual assault victims

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Speaker 6: want to be. It is a painful, difficult, challenging process

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Speaker 6: to work through some of the what goes on after that.

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Speaker 6: So I think what we're looking at here is not

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Speaker 6: knowing what happened, trying to figure it out, and just

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Speaker 6: being honest about what they do remember and why they

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Speaker 6: wouldn't have consented to some of what went next. That's

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Speaker 6: what seems to be the.

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Speaker 2: Fact beatter Rachel Couchman joining us friends saying nurse and

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Speaker 2: a saying sex assault nurse examiner. Let's just go on

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Speaker 2: what the defendant said. Excuse me, the good doctor, Rachel.

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Speaker 2: What would a shower? What effect would a shower have

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Speaker 2: on evidence regarding a rape victim?

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Speaker 7: Well, the shower could help wash away evidence. Touch DNA,

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Speaker 7: you know we have we are able to get DNA

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Speaker 7: now on touch saliva. Depending on how much she bathed

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Speaker 7: and showered and washed those areas, potentially DNA could have

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Speaker 7: been washed.

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Speaker 2: Away saliva as Rachel country and points out sperm if

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Speaker 2: it's on her body, pubic hair, which will be part

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Speaker 2: of a pelvic exam.

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Speaker 1: The pubic hair of the victim is combed with.

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Speaker 2: A special type of comb. It's very fine to gather

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Speaker 2: pubic hairs left by the rapist on the victim. All

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Speaker 2: sorts of evidence is gathered during a pelvic exam, but

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Speaker 2: a shower could get rid of a lot of evidence.

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Speaker 2: Even if sperm DNA is found in her vagina or rectome,

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Speaker 2: there's still the defense it was all consensual. She can't

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Speaker 2: remember what happened, so what does that mean? What more

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Speaker 2: do we know? Take a listen to our forensic case.

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Speaker 3: NC Matthews had a dating profile on the Hinge app

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty and connected with a woman we'll call Jane,

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Speaker 3: who went with him to his Uptown apartment. There, she says,

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Speaker 3: after minimal drinking, she blacked out, woke up naked on

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Speaker 3: the floor, and texted a family member, I think there's

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Speaker 3: a good chance something very bad happened to be The

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Speaker 3: next day, September twenty ninth, twenty twenty, she underwent a

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Speaker 3: rape exam and sent an email to Hinge about what

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Speaker 3: she says happened. We'll be taking immediate steps, wrote back Hinge.

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Speaker 3: We permanently banned him from Hinge. The company told.

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Speaker 1: Her, so is he is? He banned from Hinge? Take

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Speaker 1: a lessen.

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Speaker 3: But four months later, as she was on the dating

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Speaker 3: app again, she again found his profile and again wrote

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Speaker 3: Hinge on January thirtieth, twenty twenty one, I was raped

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Speaker 3: after a first day with an individual I met and

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Speaker 3: communicated with via a Hinge. He still exists within your ecosystem,

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Speaker 3: she wrote, and is posing a potential threat to other

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Speaker 3: women within the Hinge community.

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Speaker 1: Their ban is essentially meaningless.

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Speaker 3: Eva Galprin is the director of cybersecurity for the Electronic

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Speaker 3: Frontier Foundation.

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Speaker 1: Whatever they did was clearly insufficient. It did not even.

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Speaker 7: Clear the most basic bar of what you want to

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Speaker 7: do when you want to ban someone.

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Speaker 2: So let me understand Christopher Gavin joining us from the Messenger.

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Speaker 2: This woman goes to Hinge, tells them what happened, and

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Speaker 2: they agree to quote ban him before Moss letter. She

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Speaker 2: checks and he's back. Do I have those facts correct,

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Speaker 2: Christopher Gavin?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, according to that tv S report, Yes, yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 4: I mean you have a problem if you're going to

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Speaker 4: ban someone. The principle ways they do it are based

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Speaker 4: on an email and a phone number, and it doesn't

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Speaker 4: take but ten minutes to create a new email account

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Speaker 4: by Berner Phone. So the only way these dating apps

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Speaker 4: potancially forced us is to use AI photo recognition and

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Speaker 4: ID the purpse based on their profile pictures, and that

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Speaker 4: doesn't appear to be him.

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Speaker 2: Guys, you're hearing Lee Newbecker, digital forensics expert at Enigma Forensics,

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Speaker 2: where he is the president and CEO.

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Speaker 1: You're saying, and.

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Speaker 2: Regular people talk, not technical digital talk, that it would

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Speaker 2: have been an easy thing for Hinge to ban him

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Speaker 2: unless he came back and raburn our fund exactly.

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Speaker 4: And people who are doing bad things they find ways

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Speaker 4: to get around it. Even with photo detection. They can

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Speaker 4: alter photos, make photos unique so they can't be identified.

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Speaker 2: As easily interesting. But Hinge didn't do that. Okay, guys,

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Speaker 2: take a listen more of Brian mass.

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Speaker 3: After Jane's second report to Hinge in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 3: Hinge emailed her. It appears he created a new account

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Speaker 3: using completely different login credentials. We have now permanently banned

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Speaker 3: that account and taken additional steps to ensure that he

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Speaker 3: stays permanently off Hinge. But whatever steps they took clearly

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Speaker 3: didn't work. Hinge declined to be interviewed and wouldn't say

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Speaker 3: exactly what happened. But dating sites can blocker user's phone number,

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Speaker 3: email address, IP address, and other identifying information. But according

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Speaker 3: to text messages between Matthews and other women, he was

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Speaker 3: back on the Hinge app again and twenty twenty two

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Speaker 3: and twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: The fact that he's back on a dating app is concerning,

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Speaker 2: and I certainly do not want to limit his freedom

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Speaker 2: of speech.

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Speaker 1: It's concerning because of this Listen.

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Speaker 3: He was back on the Hinge app again in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two and twenty twenty three, meeting more women like

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Speaker 3: this woman he went out with in January of this year.

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Speaker 10: I should have never ever even been able to match

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Speaker 10: with him, because he should have never been able to

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Speaker 10: make another account.

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Speaker 4: She says.

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Speaker 3: After several drinks with Matthews at his home, she blacked

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Speaker 3: out and underwent a rape test the next day, which

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Speaker 3: she says showed she had intercourse which she does not remember.

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Speaker 3: Matthews claims the sex was consensual.

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Speaker 2: So to Christopher Gavin from The Messenger, let me understand,

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Speaker 2: we now have two victims saying essentially the same thing,

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Speaker 2: except the first one had drinks with him at Sunday

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Speaker 2: Brunt and the other one had.

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Speaker 1: Drinks at home.

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Speaker 2: Is that the only difference, except drinks at his home

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Speaker 2: not her home.

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Speaker 4: Well, I believe that there.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, there were some drinks in the January case at

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Speaker 9: the Back Branch, but there was also drinks I believe,

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Speaker 9: in both cases at doctor Matthewson's personal home.

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Speaker 2: That's really interesting that you said that, Chris Gavan to

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Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall. I want to go into the dynamic

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Speaker 2: of why you'd want to have sex with a basically

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Speaker 2: unconscious person. But before I go to that, let me

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Speaker 2: ask you this. Do you see his mo unfolding? If

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Speaker 2: in fact these allegations are true, it has to be

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Speaker 2: at his home so he can control the arena, he

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Speaker 2: can control the crime scene.

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Speaker 5: Nancy, Absolutely, this is a well oiled machine. At this point.

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Speaker 5: He knows where control For victims. He probably knows based

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Speaker 5: upon their response patterns, we know how far he's going

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Speaker 5: to get with them. Not to blame the victim, but

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Speaker 5: he probably has some in his own mind, even if

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Speaker 5: it may not play out in reality. He takes them

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Speaker 5: to a public place where they drink something so he

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Speaker 5: can say, oh, they drink too much when they were

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Speaker 5: you know, out at brunch.

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Speaker 2: Ah there'll be Surveilla's video of them at brunch most likely, but.

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Speaker 1: For lunch.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, go ahead, Well, who knows what else is in

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Speaker 5: his home? You know, That's that's what I was wondering.

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Speaker 5: You know, are there is there a bondage kit?

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Speaker 9: Uh?

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Speaker 5: Is there? Remember the Max Factor hair when air when

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Speaker 5: he was raving victims drugging them, but then he would

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Speaker 5: take films of them and then replay and replay them.

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Speaker 5: So you know, are these women being taped? You know what?

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Speaker 5: What what is he doing with that tape or with

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Speaker 5: that footage? And you know, I think you're right in

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Speaker 5: his home, other than him taping them, there's not going

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Speaker 5: to be any surveillance. That's an excellent point. So he

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Speaker 5: he can do whatever he wants while they're out of

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Speaker 5: it and don't remember, and he can basically gaslight and

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Speaker 5: see nothing happened. And by the way, you know he

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Speaker 5: found an attorney who's just like him, who's misogynistic and

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Speaker 5: makes things up that are deprecating about women.

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Speaker 2: Well, you can hire a great lawyer that won't stick

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Speaker 2: his fitness mouth as soon as he starts talking about

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Speaker 2: comparing these alleged victims to buyer's remorse. Wendy Patrick, California,

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Speaker 2: prosecutor and author. I was thinking about a scenario not

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Speaker 2: as complex as what doctor Bethany Marshall just told us.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking of something more fundamental to keep the

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Speaker 2: victim at his home control the crime, saying, you don't

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Speaker 2: have to worry about a roommate walking in. You don't

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Speaker 2: have to worry about does she live with her family,

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Speaker 2: does she have children? Of course, a lot of that

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Speaker 2: he could determine in their discussions on him if they were,

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Speaker 2: you know, going back and forth in a sort of

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Speaker 2: digital conversation. You don't have to worry about her having

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Speaker 2: surveillance vidia in her home that she can then pull

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Speaker 2: up and go, ah, look you riped me. There's not

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Speaker 2: a dog bounding through that's going to bite you in

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Speaker 2: the rear end. There's all sorts of factors that would

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Speaker 2: make it more conducive to a nefarious rape at his place.

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Speaker 6: That's exactly right, and it also forecasts the potential defense

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Speaker 6: if you've got a stranger rape. Oftentimes you don't see

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Speaker 6: somebody picking up someone at the bar and going back

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Speaker 6: to the perpetrator's home, because then the victim will know

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Speaker 6: who it is and where he lives. But if you

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Speaker 6: need on a dating app, you're not hiding identity. The

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Speaker 6: defense is going to be consented. So controlling the crime

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Speaker 6: scene avoids interruptions like Amazon deliveries, relatives, stopping over all

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Speaker 6: the types of things that you have no control over

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Speaker 6: because you don't know the person well enough, hence the

439
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 6: unconsens and that's one of the things that really distinguishes

440
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 6: the case like this from hookups at a bar where

441
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 6: there's no preconceived or pre existing relationship, even from a

442
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 6: dating app.

443
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: Now we've focused on the doctor, but what role, if any,

444
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 2: does Hinge play in this? And just remember, so far

445
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 2: only told you about two alleged to victims. Take a

446
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: listen to our cut fifteen.

447
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 10: If they had listened to the multitude of reports that

448
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 10: they had received about this person and just banned him

449
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 10: in the first place, I would not be sitting here

450
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 10: today having this conversation.

451
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 3: Doctor Matthews lawyer previously indicated his client as innocent. Hinge

452
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 3: said in a statement what's been reported is horrible, and

453
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: they said they would assist law enforcement in any way

454
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 3: they can.

455
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: Important to note here Hinge would.

456
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 3: Not answer our repeated questions about how after this doctor

457
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 3: was reportedly banned from their website, how he managed to

458
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 3: maintain a Hinge dating profile for several years.

459
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: I bet they aren't.

460
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: I bet they are not saying a word, So Lean Neebecker,

461
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 2: how did he stay on Hinge?

462
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 5: Well, I think we've.

463
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 4: Got to be a little bit fair here because the

464
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 4: notion that any app like hints as total control over

465
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 4: the users is a little unfair because it's very easy

466
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 4: to create a new account, new credentials and log and

467
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 4: what I don't know if him just doing or not.

468
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 4: Are they tracking the photos because once a perpetrator is identified,

469
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 4: they can take the digital hash values of those photos

470
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 4: and identify any other user transmitting this And we don't

471
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 4: know if they're doing that or not. If they are,

472
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 4: they're doing the best they can do.

473
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: Good point, very good point, Lee Nee Beecker. Okay, so

474
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: let's just pretend for arguments say that Hins did everything right,

475
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: which I'm not sure I believe that. But how is

476
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: this guy still practicing? Take a listen to our friends

477
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: at nine Knews.

478
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 3: The woman says she decided to go forward with the

479
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 3: criminal case after she learned that a family friend had

480
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 3: gone on a date with doctor Matthew several years ago,

481
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 3: and said she had a similar experience.

482
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 11: Police say the first came forward. She accused of cardiologist

483
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 11: Stephen Matthews of sexually assaulting her after meeting him on

484
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 11: the dating app Hinge. On March twenty eighth, the Denver

485
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 11: prosecutors charged him with three felony accounts of sexual assaults.

486
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 11: One month later, Matthews was still able to renew his

487
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 11: license to practice medicine.

488
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: So what echo ink youdink.

489
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 2: One eliged victim actually is in contact with a family

490
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: friend who went through an almost identical alleged sex assault

491
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 2: by this cardiologist. So the police go ahead and they

492
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: charge him, but yet one month later he's still is

493
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: able to renew his practice, his medical license to continue

494
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: to practice.

495
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: More from nine News.

496
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 12: I'm shocked and dismayed as a person, as a FI

497
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 12: physician and as a colleague who practices in cardiology.

498
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 11: That I News medical expert doctor Pyle Coley thinks there

499
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 11: needs to be more oversight. She knows how renewals work

500
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 11: because she submitted her application last month.

501
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 12: And it was a less than five minute process and

502
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 12: it didn't require me to talk about my criminal convictions

503
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 12: or mental health changes. It was just a blanket sort

504
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 12: of a question, have there been any changes that you

505
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 12: would like to report?

506
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 11: Yes, that you would like to report. According to a

507
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,479
Speaker 11: notice by DORA the Department of Regulatory Agencies, it's up

508
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 11: to the applicant to list any arrests or charges.

509
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 12: Which physician would voluntarily give up information when they haven't

510
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 12: yet been convicted, only been charged that may put their

511
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 12: license at risk.

512
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: Wow, so the whole process is basically anything you want

513
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: to tell us, And of course he says no and

514
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: continues to practice medicine, having one lady after the next

515
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: undress up in front of him and more listen.

516
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: Dora says.

517
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 11: The medical Board renews a license unless it's under suspension

518
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 11: or an applicant reports something bad about themselves. Two weeks

519
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 11: after the board approved Matthew's application, the Denver District Attorney

520
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 11: charged him again for assaulting nine more women.

521
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 12: But it should really be some sort of a bigger

522
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 12: systemic thing that if there is a criminal charge against you,

523
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 12: that should be reported to DORA directly, you know. So

524
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 12: it's a way to protect our patients.

525
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 11: NDA claims Matthews drugged ten women and sexually assaulted three

526
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 11: of them. Matthews agreed with the board to not practice

527
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 11: right now after the additional charges.

528
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: After the additional charges, prime stories with Nancy Grace, how

529
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 2: many more women did he meet?

530
00:31:58,360 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: I mean, doctor Bethany.

531
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: Not only is social media completely failing these women. I'm

532
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: talking about Hinge unless, as Neebacker says, they did everything

533
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 2: possible to keep him off their site, which I doubt,

534
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: but that's what they're saying. And now the medical board,

535
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: who does no investigation at all. I mean to get

536
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: a law license. They even will go and talk to

537
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,959
Speaker 2: neighbors to find out about you, Nancy.

538
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 5: The Board of Behavioral Science Examiners here in California, which

539
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 5: I have to be is a board that renews my

540
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 5: license psychoanalyst, Marriage and Family Therapists LCSW clinical psychologists. You

541
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 5: have to answer a questionnaire in which you're asked, have

542
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 5: you ever been arrested? And then they investigate. The board

543
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 5: is connected to the DMV, it's connected to I don't

544
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 5: know what ever edge agency it is, or they would

545
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 5: check to see if you get arrested. It's not a

546
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 5: self reporting they mean you're required to self report, but

547
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 5: then if you haven't arrested and you don't report it,

548
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 5: then that's a whole other offense. Because you've perjured yourself

549
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 5: and you likely will never get your license renewed again.

550
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 5: And you know Nancy, and another aspect of this, so

551
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 5: many people came in contact with this guy as a

552
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 5: physician who maybe should have had some suspicion he knew

553
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 5: how to drug these women so that they didn't remember

554
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 5: what was happening. And I know there are you know,

555
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 5: common date rate drugs, but I'm sure she had friends

556
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 5: who were pharmacists, who were anesthesiologists, people who are experts

557
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 5: in you know, administering profile fill and things like that,

558
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 5: and so kind of wonder it's not just the licensing board,

559
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 5: it's this broader network of professionals that should be holding

560
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 5: each other to a higher standard. This is not just

561
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 5: your neighbor, this is your guy. You're in the o.

562
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: R with guys. Ultimately, do we ever find out how

563
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 2: many alleged victims have been raped by this top Denver

564
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: cardiologists Drug and rape allegedly take a listen to hour

565
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 2: cut nine our forensic CAC and C.

566
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 3: The new cases have been sealed, but court records show

567
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 3: two of the new cases against Matthews involve alledged sexual assault.

568
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: The other seven charge him with second degree assault for

569
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 3: allegedly drugging women. Within hours, Denver police descended on Matthew's

570
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 3: West Denver townhouse, executing a search warm and seizing evidence.

571
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 13: Stephen Matthews in charge with sexual assault in March after

572
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 13: a woman he met on Hinge said she was drugged

573
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 13: and raped after a date with the Colorado cardiologists. Since then,

574
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 13: nine other women have come forward claiming to be sexually

575
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 13: assaulted by the thirty five year old In a similar manner.

576
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 13: According to court filings, Matthews would meet women on Hinge,

577
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 13: take them on a date, later inviting them back to

578
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 13: his place to play djanga and get in the hot tup.

579
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 13: Matthews would then serve the women alcohol and they'd become

580
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 13: violently ill, black out, and have no memory of what happened.

581
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: Okay, Christopher Gavin joining us from the Messenger, how many

582
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 2: victims do we know about right now?

583
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 9: Cerly, we know about ten women who have come forward

584
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 9: to accuse doctor Matthews.

585
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 2: Ten women that have come forward accusing him, and of

586
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 2: course guys. He is claiming that he is not guilty,

587
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 2: but this really brings back memories another well known person

588
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: charged with a similar crime.

589
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut thirty.

590
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 14: Bill Cosby called me out of the blue and he said,

591
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 14: can you come by and see me? And I was like,

592
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 14: of course, and I went up to his hotel and

593
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 14: I was alone. He talked about, let me see what

594
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 14: type of acting skills you have. I want you to

595
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 14: improv as I tried to do improv. He fixed a

596
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 14: drink and then he brought it to me. It was

597
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 14: a brown liquid and it looked like a shot. I

598
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 14: told him I didn't drink. He said that this was

599
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 14: going to relax me so that the lines would flow

600
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 14: out a lot easier. So I did drink it. He

601
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 14: made a second drink and had me drink the second

602
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 14: drink as well. I noticed myself getting a little dizzy.

603
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 2: And more, guys, you were just listening to our friends

604
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: at doctor Field Take to listen to ABC.

605
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 15: Cosby was convicted of drugging and sexually assaulting Andrea.

606
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: Constant at his home.

607
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 15: The court will now also revisit the judge's decision to

608
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 15: allow five other women to testify about Cosby giving them drugs.

609
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 16: This is something that we've been clamoring about for quite

610
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 16: some time, and finally the Pennsylvania Supreme Court has agreed

611
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 16: that it's worth looking at more closely.

612
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 15: Constant did release a statement of her own today, saying,

613
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 15: in part quote, I have no doubt that the Supreme

614
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 15: Court of PA will do the right thing and allow

615
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 15: Cosby's wealth, fame and fortune to win an escape from

616
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 15: his maleficent, malignant, and downright criminal past and seek justice

617
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 15: at all costs. So now we wait for the Supreme

618
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 15: Court's review and what might come next and.

619
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 2: What became of the case after Cosby was convicted. He's

620
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 2: out walking free and he is planning to tour. He's

621
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: actually planning to tour as a stand up comedian.

622
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what's happening, you know.

623
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, Doctor Bethany, what is

624
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 2: the psychopathy behind someone that enjoys raping a lady while

625
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: she is completely unconscious, drunk or drugged.

626
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 5: One of the things we know about perversions is that

627
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,959
Speaker 5: when you have a perversion, you are actually excited by

628
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 5: anything other than the other person's personality. You might be

629
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 5: as stimulated by let's say, only pictures, or being stomped

630
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 5: on by high heels, or being whipped, or maybe by children,

631
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 5: stimulated sexually by children, or rubbing up against unsuspecting people

632
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 5: in public fraudterism, exhibitionism, voyeurism. But boy, you do not

633
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 5: want to relate to another person in terms of who

634
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 5: they are, with thoughts and feelings and emotions of their own.

635
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 5: And that's one of the ways we diagnose perversions in

636
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 5: clinical practice is the person is excited by an aspect

637
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 5: of sexuality, but not by the person. They want that

638
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 5: person to be dead, gone, an object when you.

639
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 2: Know, not a real person, Doctor Bethany, before I went

640
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 2: out of tune, I want to fall up on something,

641
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 2: you said, Christopher Gavin with the Messenger. One accuser says,

642
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: at least one that we know of, says Matthew sent

643
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: her photos of her naked in the hot tub after

644
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 2: she refused to see him again. Another says she woke

645
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: up with bite marks on her arms. What can you

646
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 2: tell us about allegations of revenge porn?

647
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 9: Those are some things that came up in the affidavit.

648
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 9: That's kind of all we know right now in terms

649
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 9: of how those photos might have been distributed. That doctor

650
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 9: Matthews allegedly send them back to the woman, we don't

651
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 9: know if they had appeared anywhere else, which I think

652
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 9: bench porn would imply. But that's all we know right now.

653
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 2: So what do you think about that, doctor Bethany, alleged

654
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 2: photos and videos taken of the victims.

655
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I think in that case, whatever he

656
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 5: can do while they're unconscious and it's outside of their

657
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 5: awareness is going to steal him. I think the minute

658
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 5: they start to wake up and become conscious, he probably

659
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 5: loses interest in them, other than if he can use

660
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 5: the revenge porn to lure them back in, render them unconscious,

661
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 5: and then do whatever he wants to do with them again.

662
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 5: And Nancy, you know, I'm scared to think about what

663
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 5: he did do to them when they're out. I mean,

664
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 5: we know about the bitemarks, we know about all of

665
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 5: the other things that the reporter just now mentioned, what else,

666
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 5: you know, bringing out their purpose stuff?

667
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 6: And I think that's a great point because one of

668
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 6: the ways we can answer that is to what else happened?

669
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 6: Is when you have a classic case.

670
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 9: You know, I.

671
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 6: Normally say patterns make the predator, but after listening to

672
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 6: doctor Bethany, I'd say patterns make the perversion. But if

673
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 6: that pattern includes filming when the search warrant was served,

674
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 6: they may turn up some of the evidence about what

675
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 6: else happened, what happened to each of them, what are

676
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 6: the similarities. You know, there's safety in numbers. We've had

677
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 6: a number of women that have come forward, but for

678
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 6: other victims that are out there, you know, silence is

679
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 6: not golden, and this may encourage them to find their voice.

680
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 6: Maybe there'll be more allegations in the future once they

681
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 6: find some of this footage.

682
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 2: Lee Newbecker, is it possible that any evidence is going

683
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 2: to be discovered through digital seizure?

684
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 4: Well, certainly if police seizes his cell phone in his computer,

685
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 4: it's highly likely that he has images of victims on

686
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 4: the computer and they may be able to identify other

687
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 4: people that were perpetrated and trace those leads. Same thing

688
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 4: with Hinge. Hinch may have a history of all the

689
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 4: people he communicated with, and they may have that data.

690
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 4: So we don't know exactly what police have or have

691
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 4: not done, but I would fully expect it with the

692
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 4: rest they would want his computer in his phone so

693
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 4: that they could identify other victims.

694
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: If you have information regarding the case, Doctor Steven Matthews,

695
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: top Denver cardiologist, please call seven to zero nine one

696
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 2: three two thousand, repeat seven to zero, nine, one, three,

697
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 2: two thousand.

698
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: Goodbye, friend, you