WEBVTT - S1 E2: Sleep Therapy 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:04.920 The control group contains scenes of realistic violence and graphic sexuality. 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:18.200 It is intended for mature listeners. In the field of 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.919 psychiatric medicine, it was an exciting time, a time of 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:27.120 innovation and discovery, a time when mental health institutions struggled 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.400 to redefine themselves, to become something more than repositories of 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:36.080 the sick. Unorthodox methods and aggressive therapies were not only permitted, 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:42.400 but encouraged. This is a record of that time. This 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:53.960 is the control group. Get me up, I got a 0:00:53.960 --> 0:01:00.440 fine Morgan. Don't don't try to speak here, let me 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:09.440 help you. Sit there, you go, No need to stand 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:19.200 up until you're ready. Can you drink some water? Hmm? Here, 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:26.720 just try a sip. It's okay, it's okay. I take 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:31.039 it slow. You have all the time in the world. 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:35.080 Do you want to hold you out? Try it on 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:45.080 your own. That's it, careful, something's wrong with my hands. 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.720 It's perfectly normal. It just takes a little while for 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.680 your brain to regain control over your body. Take a 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.960 few minutes and let your body regain its equilibrium. That's 0:01:55.960 --> 0:02:05.480 all from what therapy E c T. Yes, Hello, Charlotte, 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:08.920 I thought I would check in on the new girl, 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:12.839 aren't you sweet? Charlotte? Do you mind helping carrying back 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:14.920 to the ward? I really need to get back to 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:28.560 my station. It'll be my pleasure. Thank you, Charlotte. I 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:34.200 suppose I owe you an apology. I know I could 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:39.359 have warned you about E c. T. But what would 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.200 have been the point? I didn't want to frighten you. 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.600 Some of his treatments may seem cruel, but Dr Hayes 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.880 is a brilliant man, and no matter how it may appear, 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:57.919 he really does have our best interest at heart. I 0:02:58.000 --> 0:02:59.680 can help you back out to the ward if you'll 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.600 let me. You don't have to talk to me if 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:16.880 you don't want to, I'll understand well, Charlotte, Yes, dear. 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:24.679 How often does anyone leave the hospital discharged? That's right? 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.000 Not very often. But some of the women were placed 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:33.840 here by their families and will probably never be released. Others, 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:39.200 the schizophrenics, the m d S, manic depressives you can 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:43.800 tell by looking at them, will probably never leave. Not 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:48.000 every illness has a cure. What about you? How long 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:52.320 have I been here? That's right? Two years a bit more? 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:56.760 My god, how do you stand it? I should ask 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:02.520 you the same thing about life on the outside. Things 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:08.280 are so peaceful here. It's a sanctuary. It really is. 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:15.080 E c T can be intimidating at first, but it 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:21.600 neutralizes all the all the So when do you think 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.240 you'll be discharged? I could probably go tell Dr Hayes 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:26.960 I'm ready and need to open the game. Then why 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:32.279 don't you Why would I want to? Karen? Stop looking 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.640 at this as a punishment. This is a hospital, we're 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:41.920 receiving medical attention. Why can't you appreciate what he's trying 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:46.520 to do for all of us. I'll get out when 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:51.600 Dr Hayes thinks I'm ready. But you see, he's a perfectionist. 0:04:52.000 --> 0:05:01.760 He has very high standards. I guess, like mids architecture, 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.560 you might be you an on the campus of the university. 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.839 Perhaps the better curtis need of British nobility. But this 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:17.200 place is intact the Central State Hospital at Utanan, a 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:22.360 city unto itself. The hospital is situated upon one acres 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:29.679 of land and has its own fire department, plant, Doctor Hayes. 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:34.160 Dr Hayes, yes, yes, there's something wrong. It's nothing wrong. 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:36.800 It's just that we have a limited amount of time 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:42.560 in which just second time today and can you kill 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:47.160 it less hang Central State. I think it would be 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.279 a more constructive use of our time to discuss the 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:56.560 particulars of your grant renewal. M sure. Since I only 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:58.440 have a few minutes to visit today, I hope to 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.440 discuss the results of your latest work. What's gone on 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.240 in the last ninety days, what do you expect in 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.000 the next ninety And still have some time to talk 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:14.400 about new directions, new directions, anything you like. I read 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:19.440 with great interest your paper abolishing Consciousness through e c T. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.680 Do you plan to publish? Yes, I'm trying. So far, 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:33.000 I haven't had any luck severe delusion, paranoia, schizophrenia. Have 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.560 you found that the treatment has any positive effect upon 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:40.600 the patient? Well? Or is it simply neutralizing the symptoms? Well, 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:45.599 neutralizing the symptoms of mental illness is a positive effect, 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.360 I think to a degree. But the goal should always 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:53.080 be the elimination of the cause of this erratic behavior. 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.719 If your objective is to neutralize it seems you could 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.320 just prescribe some thorizine and get the same effect. The 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:02.800 point is, we know the effect of e c T 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.000 applying more of the same as in research. We know 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.400 it flattens the brain waves, but it doesn't really do 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.679 anything to attack the problem. I'm not sure I agree. 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.640 We ask have you been doing anything different since receiving 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.720 the s i H grant then you were doing, say 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:22.240 six months ago. Well, it's allowed us to enlarge our 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:26.560 staff and increase the frequency of treatment because the impression 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.920 on getting excuse me for interrupting the impression on getting, 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.080 is that you're applying s i H funding towards the 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:39.600 general operational costs of your port and not applying it 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:44.360 towards specific new research. Being in the medical field, I'm 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:47.200 sure you can appreciate how cautious you have to be 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:52.840 when introducing new forms of therapy. Appreciate research that aligns 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:58.840 with s i H objectives. We appreciate results has come 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:04.240 from this research. We would appreciate it if you would 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:10.280 focus on new research. It is not our business to 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.640 underwrite a facilities day to day operations. I'll tell you 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.360 now that if that's how you plan to spend the 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.840 next ninety days, we won't be able to continue to 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:24.400 support your work. In New Canaan understood decided CCT is 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:29.360 so blunt it's like performing surgery with an axe rather 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:35.160 than a scalpel. It lacks precision control. Here's my problem 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.240 with e c T. You say you want to how 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:43.480 do you put it, abolish consciousness? If you want to 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.679 clean out the brain by by by wiping the slate clean, 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.160 you risk of raising all the valuable data store inside 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.400 the knowledge, the memories. You see where I'm going here, 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:57.000 don't you? I think, sir? And what do you put 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:05.520 in the empty space anything? Have you ever thought about 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:10.040 the name of our organization, the Society for the Investigation 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:17.400 of Human Ecology Human Ecology. I think of the mind 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.640 as a garden. E c T is like a tiller 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.000 that churns the soil. It wouldn't it be better to 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:29.760 have pulled the weeds, as it were, selectively remove the 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.080 harmful growth is crowding out the healthy thoughts, so that 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:37.560 we could then harvest the fruit of the mind. But 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:43.280 when you say harvest, I don't understand. Maybe gardening who 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.120 wasn't the best metaphor I could have used, But hopefully 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.679 you get what I'm saying. Instead of erasing the contents 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:54.600 of damaged mind, let's try to open it up, look around, 0:09:55.559 --> 0:10:02.560 decide what's worth keeping and what should be thrown away. Yes, yes. 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.440 And if you decide to till the soil and mulch everything, 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.680 you make the ground fertile again. You have an opportunity 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:13.000 to plan a fresh crop, a healthy crop in its place. 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:19.840 Have you planned for that? There are ways. I'll send 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:24.600 over a paper from one of our members. How old 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:29.959 are you? Doctor has met two is not so old. 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:35.960 You still have time to do something great. You just 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.520 have to think like a twenty six year old again. 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.800 Remember that sometimes when a doctor has spent too much 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.520 time in the same word as vision narrows, this is 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.640 his touch with his ambition. Let's roll back the odometer 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:55.320 of your career. Hayes give you a second chance to 0:10:55.320 --> 0:11:19.400 to do something something big. H good afternoon, ladies. In 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.440 about thirty minutes we'll all walk over to the dining room, 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:24.520 so please visit the wash room now if you need 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.840 to tidy up. In a moment, Dr Hayes will be 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.280 coming through the ward with a very important guest. I'll 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.680 expect you to be on your best behavior. And yes, 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:45.560 I'm looking at you, Irene. Thank you. Hi, Hello, Karen. 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:51.120 Glad to see you've gotten your land legs again. Yes, ma'am, 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:57.720 can I help you with something sure. Maybe, um, would 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:02.000 it be possible for you need to make a phone call? 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.719 I mean it is there like a procedure where I 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.080 can request to make a patience are not allowed to 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:18.280 use the telephone. I'm sorry, Carrie, oh that there must 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:22.439 be some way to communicate with the outside world. What 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.120 you know, we need to speak to someone outside the hospital. 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.240 Ask Dr Hayes in your next interview. He will consider 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.360 the request and take a proper action. Okay, it'll take 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:37.520 five minutes, two minutes. Well, the the phone is right there. 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:42.199 Come on, Karen, if you need to speak to someone 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.360 outside the hospital, ask Dr Hayes. And all right, I 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:59.560 heard you. Like the convulsive y it's just the first 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:03.880 step care no process because it's the most aggressive and 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:10.959 reliable and neutralizer of conscious thought affect the short term 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.000 and treating every patient every forty eight hours puts a 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:21.480 strain on our staff, not to mention our electric bill. Yeah, 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.440 so you and Cameron up in in Montreal. He's having 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.480 excellent results with sleep therapy. Ever heard of him? The 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:35.880 society is um well acquainted with Dr Cameron's research, brilliant mind. 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:41.440 So encouraged by his success. We've stalked up on phena 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.680 barbitall and have set up a sleep room right here 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:49.280 in New canaan first one in the southern US. There's 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.559 one patient there at the moment, derotic, excitable, prone to 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:58.000 burst of hysteria. You're out a sleep on would you 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.320 care to see it? Dr her Ace, You are just 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:17.560 full of surprises right this way. I only have one 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.680 patient under the sedative right now. She's three days in. 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:27.120 Certainly looks peaceful. It's a deep, RESTful sleep, I'm sure. 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.680 And we'll be constantly modering her vitals and adjusting the 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:36.160 dosage along the way, and you'll keep her under the 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.480 next round of VC T is Friday. We'll wake her up, 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.360 feeder and treat her and put her right back under. 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.800 And you hope to replicate the success of Dr Cameron's experiment. 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:55.600 That's right. And then yeah, I'll caution you not to 0:14:55.840 --> 0:15:00.880 dwell too long in another man's shadow. Cameron's were is remarkable. 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.360 We'll give them back, but it's his. How will you 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.040 leave your market? What will be your treatments? How will 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.920 you apply them to make a name for yourself? Food 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:17.600 for thought? That's all, if you don't mind my asking, Dcores, 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.960 is there a reason you apply your more experimental therapies 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:29.520 to women. Uh, we've We've found, I've I've found, and 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:33.120 I think the research supports this. The female mind is 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:37.760 more supple, more malleable than the male, which tends to 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:42.760 have developed a stronger resistance, whether it's culturally enforced defense 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.920 mechanism or just the genetic proclivity. The jury is still loud. 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.480 I mean, I mean, if you prefer that I treat 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:56.080 male patients, I suppose I could just started. No need 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.800 to be defensive DRS. It aligns with what all are 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.840 just seem to have found. And where would medical research 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:10.400 be you without the lab mouse, white, complacent, obedient. Just 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:14.280 remember that the lab mouse has been conditioned to be 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.200 the model patient. Just remember that at a certain point 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.120 it will be necessary to apply your methods to unless 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:39.280 cooperative subject. This is an interview with patient Myers Caring. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:45.280 The date is October. Also present as ward head nurse 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:50.600 vir Tree, Billburn. It's okring, how we've been getting along. 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.920 You're same to have come through your first DCT treatment. Okay, 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.040 if you feel sore, Charlotte or one of the girls 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.119 can show you some stretching and bending. Why do you 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:09.520 call it easy? T stands for electroc convulsive therapy. Why 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.119 don't you just call it shock treatment because that's not 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:17.600 what it is. We use ECT to help wipe off 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:22.040 the mental slate. What do we call deep patterning gets 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.120 sort of the clutter and noise. But if you want 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:31.119 to call it shock treatment, be my guest. Any other questions. 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.919 We have a variety of therapies in our medical arsenal, 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.159 each one tailor to the specific needs of the patient. 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.480 Yesterday you asked me about a timetable for your release. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.160 The truth of the matter is there are no shortcuts. 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:54.000 The treatment takes time. But to encourage the process, I 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:59.120 need two things from you. Your cooperation, not just with me, 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.800 but with the nurse is the attendance to the other patients. 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:11.560 And the second is honesty, absolute honesty. If you help me, 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:18.359 I can help you. Since we last spoke, I've had 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.399 a closer look at your file, to be honest, with 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.160 a thing in your file that don't add up, and frankly, 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:26.240 I'm not quite sure why you're here and not in 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.720 a prison facility. I do intend to take this up 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.920 with the state, but before I do, I want to 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:37.080 get your side of the story. Okay, you were in 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:42.240 a hotel room when Ronald Grant was pushed through a window, actually, 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.560 let's be honest, thrown through a window to his death. 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:50.520 I didn't throw him through the window, obviously, but I'm 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.199 sure you can shed some light on the circumstances of 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:57.919 the incident. Why were you there? We were there on 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:08.880 a date, doctor, You know why we were there, that's right, 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:15.160 So why be quite about it? A date? Beyond having 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:19.200 a sexual liaison for money? Was there any ulterior motive 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:24.800 in taking him up to the room? Robbery? Is the 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.600 motel a clip joint, Get a man drunk, cold cock, 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.760 and then take his wallet. Only Ronald Grant had a 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:37.840 tolerance for liquor and sex. You're debate and someone else 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:42.919 does the dirty work, the other dirty work. There was 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.159 no one in the room but Ronald and myself, and 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:50.800 I didn't touch him. Just how much did he pay 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.080 you not to be touched? I mean, he touched me. 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:56.680 You might say that was the whole point of going 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:02.440 on afterwards after your romantic date had ended as well. 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:06.880 Grant so dissatisfied the experience that he just jumped through 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.320 a plate class window. Didn't open it first, didn't even 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.840 open the blinds just just to a rhyan start, and 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:18.600 that's exactly how it happened. Swear to God. Did the 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.840 police ever find the person they were looking for? Who 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:27.120 your accomplice? Or were you the accomplice? How does that work? Exactly? 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.640 When you were arrested, you told the police you had 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.240 to get out of jail free card if they would 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:40.399 just call the number on the card. What was that about? Uh? So? 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:44.840 Is this just something the police fabricated for their own amusement? 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:50.520 Did they call the number? Whose number was on the card? Karen? 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.080 And if they called the number, why did you stay 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:58.080 in jail card? That's ridiculous in a way. It doesn't matter. 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.840 The details of the crime are not pertinent your treatment here. 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.920 Neither is your guilt or innocence. I honestly don't care 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.320 whether you did it or not. But what does matter 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:15.400 is your willingness to cooperate, to be honest, fact is pertinent. 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.160 That's what I need from you, and that's what you're 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:22.720 refusing to provide. Every question I asked, whether it's big 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.360 or small, you you refuse to answer. You don't even 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:29.960 bother to make up. Wise, how are we going to 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.520 have a productive interview session? If you won't particip because 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:35.639 all you want to ask me about is the fucking crime, 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.600 because that's the one thing you refuse to talk about. 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:41.280 You want me to bear my soul. I'll bear my soul. 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:44.840 Get out your notebook. I'll tell you about my shitty childhood, 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:48.920 my creepy cousins, my abusive uncles, even my my school teachers. 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:51.080 I'll tell you about running away from home at fifteen, 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.359 the first time I pop pills, lost my virginity, turned 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:56.760 a trick, got my face pounded in, got my arm 0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:00.240 broken by some angry john. I wouldn't let defy, only 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.760 in ways you couldn't imagine. I'm telling you about the 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.760 things that made me who I am, for better or worse. 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:08.960 I'll tell you what I had to do to stay 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.840 alive on the street, the people I had to depend 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:16.080 on for safety. But I won't I won't tell you 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.919 about what happened in twelve So of all the things, 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:22.840 of all the things that I'm willing to share with you. 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:24.840 If that's the only thing that you want to know 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:31.040 about me one night, you can save your fucking breath. Well, 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:38.920 I mean, ask me about me, about me, and I'll 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:48.520 tell you the Please please, Okay, I guess the battle 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:59.000 lines are drawn. This concludes interview with Myers Karen m h. 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:20.879 Hello again, Hayes. I thought we had covered everything. Thanks 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:23.200 for coming out. I really appreciate you coming by. And 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:25.439 I can only stay a minute. I need to get 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:26.960 to the airport by six if I'm going to get 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:29.520 back to ACA tonight. It'll just take a minute. I 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:31.320 would have met you at the airport, but it's hard 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:33.919 for me to get away. It's not a problem. If 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:35.520 it's important enough for you to call me back, I 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:38.720 figure it deserves my attention. It is, I think it does. 0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:45.640 I mean you'll want to hear it. Uh. I've put 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:48.520 a lot of thought into what we were discussing last time, 0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:53.320 and I have some ideas, some forward thinking ideas that 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:56.440 I think the society might be interested in having me explore. 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:00.280 Spoken like a proper twenty six year old age. H, 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:04.760 I'm all ears. Tell me if we think of the 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:08.119 mind and analytical terms, no no, no, no no no, 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:10.240 but the bear with me, bear with me, tell me 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:14.280 if I'm on track. The psychoanalysts must base is treatment 0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:18.520 on what the patient is willing to share through memories, dreams, 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:22.200 and then the details they choose to share, right, that's right. Well, 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:27.119 maybe the patient wants to share every detail, but they 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:30.920 are limited in their own memory. For every dream they share, 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:34.280 there's another one that they're unable to recall. So the 0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:38.040 psychoanalysts cannot treat the patient until they're able to break 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:42.080 through this filter and determine what the patient is really 0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:47.000 Thanking funding Freudian research, you know that doctor is suppose 0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:52.760 we remove the filter, break down the patient's mental resistance, 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:56.120 whether it's one they've erected or one their subconscious mind 0:24:56.160 --> 0:25:01.040 is erected, and we look inside, We crack open the 0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:05.960 head and get the unfiltered truth that lies within. Imagine 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:09.120 the possibility if a doctor were capable of breaking down 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:13.879 that wall. There is no limit to what he could achieve. 0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:17.960 And that's the kind of a doctor of the Society 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:21.280 for the Investigation of Human Ecology would support to the 0:25:21.359 --> 0:25:26.160 absolute limit. Tell me more. It's a great idea in theory, 0:25:26.160 --> 0:25:30.040 but I need specifics. I have a patient who's harboring 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:36.639 a secret. She's tough, sharp, fully functioning, but uncooperative. In 0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:43.280 that patient's name, oh that um, let's just call her Karen. Okay, 0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:47.280 you said something about a secret. A very big, secret 0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:51.359 criminal one that will put her in state prison if 0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:54.040 I can get it out of her. The police couldn't 0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:57.359 make her talk, the state prosecutor couldn't make her talk. 0:26:00.680 --> 0:26:04.240 I think I can make her talk. In fact, I'm 0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:07.000 sure if are you sure you should be involving yourself 0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:11.040 in a criminal case only to degree that benefits her treatment, 0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:14.320 I can crack her open. I know I can crack 0:26:14.400 --> 0:26:20.639 her I that is, by combining several of the newer, 0:26:20.880 --> 0:26:25.600 more aggressive theories we can we can retrieve a very specific, 0:26:26.080 --> 0:26:35.080 targeted piece of information. Wow, who is this new doctor 0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:38.840 Hayes who stands before me as a man of ideas? 0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:43.480 Consider your grand proposal approved. I'll have the necessary signatures 0:26:43.480 --> 0:26:45.919 by the end of the day tomorrow. Record everything. If 0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:48.800 it works the s I h will want to know 0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:53.879 every detail. I will, and if it doesn't, we wouldn't 0:26:53.920 --> 0:27:00.160 want to know a thing about it. H understood, it's 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:02.560 a lot of resources to dedicate to a single case. 0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:06.400 Have you considered the mechanics of a more widespread application 0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:11.119 of your therapy. I haven't yet. I'm still refining the method. 0:27:11.400 --> 0:27:14.119 It's never too early to think about where you would 0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:17.760 take this once it's perfected. While the s I G 0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:21.719 appreciates the value of labmize, we want to support therapies 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:23.840 that can be applied on a broad spectrum of patients 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:29.280 to accomplish a variety of objectives. I don't see why not. 0:27:29.560 --> 0:27:35.679 I I see this as just the beginning. I'll be 0:27:35.720 --> 0:27:38.399 honest with your haste. I'm starting to like what I 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:41.160 see in you. The society was starting to have its doubts, 0:27:41.359 --> 0:27:45.280 but I'm glad I stood up for you. Put her there. 0:27:46.680 --> 0:27:50.720 Let's get started. Oh, just one last thing, I hope 0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:56.520 you don't mind. The Society for the Investigation of Human 0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:59.639 Ecology does not assign projects or even recommend specific areas 0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:03.680 for SERVE. We simply invest in projects relevant to progressive psychopharmacology, 0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:07.080 psychosurgery and research and share in the knowledge that results. 0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:22.919 And that's it. Abo'll do it. M M. Good morning, ladies. 0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:28.159 We hope you had a relaxing weekend on behalf of 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:30.919 Dr Hayes and the nursing staff. We look forward to 0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:36.320 a week that is peaceful and productive. Our e C T. 0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:40.480 Psychle will get underway momentarily. Please tend to any personal 0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:42.800 business you need to finish up before we get started. 0:28:43.960 --> 0:28:52.680 It's Monday, September and it's going to be a glorious day. 0:28:53.120 --> 0:28:56.280 Good morning, miss Wilbourne. And how are we today, Charlotte? 0:28:57.040 --> 0:29:03.640 Oh fine, that's great. Mhm. Is there something more on 0:29:03.680 --> 0:29:12.160 your mind? No, No, everything's just fine. Okay. Well, as 0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:13.960 you can see, I've got a lot of paperwork to 0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:17.440 sort through before Monday and e c T is about 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:24.880 to begin. Yes, Monday morning is well, Monday morning is 0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:31.680 my time for one on one time with Dr Hayes remembers. 0:29:32.280 --> 0:29:36.360 Has there been a schedule change because you said you're 0:29:36.360 --> 0:29:38.560 about to start ECT and I don't know if there's 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:44.840 enough time. There's been a slight change of schedule, Okay, Okay. 0:29:45.520 --> 0:29:49.120 Being a new patient and someone who's been put here 0:29:49.120 --> 0:29:52.920 by the state, Karen is going to command more than 0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:56.880 her share of doctor Hayes's attention for a while at least. 0:29:57.200 --> 0:30:00.720 How is that fair? I beg your pardon, I said, 0:30:00.720 --> 0:30:07.040 how is that fair? Charlotte? Please don't take it personally. 0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:13.960 Don't get upset. I'm not upset. I'm sorry, I'm not upset. 0:30:14.000 --> 0:30:20.720 I'm I'm really I'm really not okay, I'm not. Just 0:30:20.840 --> 0:30:24.520 bear with us, Charlotte, you'd be doing both Dr Hayes 0:30:24.600 --> 0:30:28.920 and myself a great consideration, if you'd just be patient. 0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:33.320 I only want to help. I know that Charlotte and 0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:36.160 you always are so helpful. I just don't want to 0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:40.640 ear no, not at my own expense. Why don't I 0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:44.880 talk to Dr Hayes later today? Tell him what a 0:30:45.000 --> 0:30:48.120 generous thing you did by giving up your interview times 0:30:48.120 --> 0:30:51.640 so that Karen could get the treatment she needs. Let 0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:54.320 him know that this is a sacrifice you were willing 0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:58.160 to make sure. How would that be, I guess that 0:30:58.200 --> 0:30:59.920 would be. I'll do it as soon as the word 0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:09.520 it's clear after e C t Okay, okay, how are 0:31:09.520 --> 0:31:13.400 we doing? Burder? Just fine. I've almost sorted through today's 0:31:13.400 --> 0:31:20.760 schedule and wondered if Charlotte, yes, will you excuse us please? 0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:27.880 Of course, sorry, thank you doctor. She's worried that Karen 0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:30.680 has taken her place on the interview schedule this morning. 0:31:32.280 --> 0:31:34.800 We can't let us start getting overly sensitive again or 0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:41.520 we'll never get her off the ward. Thank you for 0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:46.000 your patients. Ladies. We're ready to begin, and we'll start 0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:59.880 with Roberta and Carol. Please come up a joke back 0:32:01.160 --> 0:32:04.600 Stanley Brown, Asian managers here with me, Are you ready 0:32:04.600 --> 0:32:14.680 for the job? Favorite? And I love how um relationship 0:32:14.800 --> 0:32:24.040