WEBVTT - Melinda Gates 0:00:02.000 --> 0:00:04.400 Hi, everyone, I'm Emily Chang and this is Bloomberg Studio 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.440 one point Out. The last time I spoke to Melinda Gates, 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:09.600 she had just written a book called The Moment of 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:13.720 Lift about how empowering women can change the world. Then 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:18.439 the world changed on all of us. Since the onset 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:20.960 of the COVID nineteen pandemic, the Bill and Melinda Gates 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.560 Foundation has committed a staggering one point seven five billion 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:29.040 dollars to vaccine development, distribution, treatments, and more. It's one 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.599 of the largest sums from any philanthropic effort around the globe. 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.720 But while mass vaccinations are rapidly under way, the pandemic 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.640 is far from over Urgent. Concerns about unequal distribution and 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:44.760 recovery remained, and the possibility that not just developing countries, 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:48.559 but women worldwide will get left behind. Joining me on 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:50.760 this edition of Bloomberg Studio one point oh to shine 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.600 a light on the uneven road ahead, the co founder 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.000 and co chair of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, 0:00:56.280 --> 0:01:02.120 Melinda Gates. Melinda, it's been a year since the pandemic 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:06.959 completely changed our world. From your perspective, where are we 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:11.320 right now in the fight against COVID. Well, I think 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.160 we still have a ways to go. You know, we're 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:15.319 seeing the light at the end of the tunnel here 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:19.120 in the United States, but until all Americans are vaccinated, 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.120 we still have a ways to go. Um, But you know, 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.640 it's gonna be a while until the entire world is vaccinated. 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:27.319 So this is going to still be with us the 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.280 next few years. And I think we're gonna have to 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.320 really watch these variants that will be bouncing around the world. 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:37.200 That's actually still quite concerning. What is it about the 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:41.800 variants that concern you? Well, because every time of we 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.039 know virus is mutate, but when they mutate, you know, 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.160 they can become sometimes more deadly or more contagious. And 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.600 so any time you see these mutations, we need to 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.640 be on top of them in terms of surveillance, and 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.080 then we're gonna have to figure out do we need 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:59.320 to tune various vaccines to take care of them. So 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.720 your foundation has committed one point seven five billion dollars 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:07.200 to the fight against COVID. I know your team is 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:10.360 very diligent about looking at where and how that money 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:14.800 is spent. In your view, where is the vaccine rollout working, 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:19.200 and what's not working. Well, I think it's working in 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.120 some of our high income countries. Were starting to finally 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.800 see you know, much broader distribution, for instance in the 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.000 United States and in some of the European countries. But 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.440 it is not at all working yet for middle and 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.840 low income countries. And you know, those are places where 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.120 people are struggling. They have their luved ones who get ill. 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.680 They can't get them to a hospital much less than 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:43.120 I see you, and so they are really still struggling 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:47.280 in many countries around the world. So there's obviously a 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.680 moral case for vaccine equity, but what about the economic case. 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.680 Why should somebody in New York or San Francisco care 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:59.000 when somebody in Africa gets the vaccine. Well, absolutely, it's 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.320 the right moral thing to do, but economically, we're not 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.000 going to have a swift a recovery in the United 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.480 States or in Europe if we don't make sure that 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.160 everybody gets vaccinated. Because what will happen is this disease, 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.120 you know, we know it crosses borders. We've seen it 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.799 all over the world, and so as these variants break out, 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.560 they will absolutely come back into the United States and 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.760 Europe and Japan, and so our supply chains won't fully 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.519 be up and running. We won't get our travel industry 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.280 fully and leisure up and running, or business community up 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:33.200 and running in terms of travel. So economically, if we're 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.160 going to reopen the global economy, we've got to take 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:41.640 care of this everywhere. So if vaccines aren't distributed equally, 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.920 obviously there's economic consequences, there will also be more deaths. 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:50.960 What are the consequences of that, Well, more deaths I 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:54.520 mean is it's a tragedy for every family that experiences 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.600 a loss. But it's also I think we have to 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.880 remember it's wreaking havoc on the health care systems of 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.440 these countries. And so what it means is a mom 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.840 who is pregnant doesn't go in for her anti natal visits, 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.480 she doesn't go in for delivery, so she has an 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.160 unsafe delivery at home. It means we have forty nine 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:16.200 million women that won't get contraceptives during this pandemic. That 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:21.560 needs fifteen million unplanned pregnancies in one year. That's like 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.200 adding up the cities of Chicago, New York, in l 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:28.760 A and saying we're gonna have fifteen million unplanned pregnancies. Wow. 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:34.520 Vaccine nationalism is stepping up as this continues. You've got 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:40.960 nations competing for supplies. Do you see a better way? Well? 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.440 I think you know, we started off as a world 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.400 with a good way, which is to try and pool 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.200 both the demand and match it to what would be 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.840 the supply, and to have financing for that. You know, 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.080 the US didn't come into that financing until the last 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:00.200 stimulus bill that happened in December. Uh, they finally put 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.039 money forward for gobby which helps with this facility called 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.640 kovacs to purchase vaccines and get it organized. We just 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.200 now are coming in with this latest stimulus bill for 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.800 testing and treatment. Um. But you know that would have 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.640 been the way to go, is to really match global 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.880 demand and supply and first get it out to all 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.000 the health care workers all over the world before you 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:26.640 even begin then going to vulnerable populations. Meantime, there's continued 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.080 disinformation about vaccines. How do you how do you and 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:35.280 Bill see that kind of disinformation? Misinformation? Yeah, when you 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:40.240 see it, I will say, it's incredibly disheartening because honestly 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.680 it causes death. People not doing the right thing, not 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.719 getting their mom or their elderly father vaccinated. You know, 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.480 will lose more people. We are losing more people, so 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:55.440 it's disheartening. UM. On the other hand, as more people 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.320 are getting vaccinated, just take the United States, we're seeing 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.960 more demand for vaccines, so we're finally seeing the countercyclical 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.080 part of that argument. UM. But it's always disheartening to 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.440 see something like that. Now, a huge part of your 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:12.040 job before the pandemic was traveling around the world, meeting people, 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.839 talking to them in person in far flung places that 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.280 most of us don't get to go. How has your 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:22.000 job changed during COVID now that you can't make those trips. Well, 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.800 I think, like so many others who are lucky enough 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:26.720 to be able to have access to a computer in 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.760 a good, good internet right, I'm doing a lot of 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:35.239 meetings online UM, and they are pretty continuous throughout the day. 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:40.240 I am certainly meeting UM with still leaders around the world, 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.600 even community organizers around the world. But I miss I 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.280 miss the you know, deep connection and interaction with women 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.640 in her home or a man who's working in his field, 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:52.919 or the children. You know. I miss that, and so 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.320 I look forward to when that will return, hopefully in 0:06:55.360 --> 0:07:02.839 the next year. This is my conversation with Melinda Gates, 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.919 co chair of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Up next, 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.320 we did deeper into how the pandemic has derailed progress 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:12.600 for gender equality, dealing a major setback to women in 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.120 the workforce. With a Biden administration taking steps to promote 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.640 women's equity, what else should the White House do to 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.560 really make a difference and is it time for a 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:25.440 female president. I'm Emily Chang, this is Bloomberg Studio. At 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:37.160 one point, Oh, in your annual letter, you and Bill 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:41.200 said the recovery starts with women. What do you mean 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:46.440 by that, Well, women have had the most devastation, women 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.800 and people of color during this crisis. You know, we 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.800 know women have left the labor force in droves. We 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.960 know they're at home with this complete caregiving crisis, taking 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.480 care of the young, taking care of the elderly. And 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.440 so if we're going to have a full response and 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.920 a swift response, we have to stop thinking, as a 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.040 world of gender equality, is this nice thing to do 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.320 when we get to it, or this side issue. No, 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.480 it is the central issue. If we're going to get 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.560 a full recovery and a swift recovery, we've got to 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:20.840 address all of the issues that are facing women. We 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.560 are in a crisis for women and people of color 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.920 in this country. Now. The last time you and I spoke, 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.760 it was about your book The Moment of Lift, How 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.480 Empowering Women Changes the World, that came out two years 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.000 ago on the Heels of Me Too. There was a 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:39.800 lot of hope. Have you seen that play out or 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:44.400 have you seen progress derailed? We've seen, you know, I 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.719 would definitely say that was a moment of optimism for me. 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.000 And I would say now I think women are in 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.200 a moment of crisis. So we've seen a lot of 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:57.120 work derailed. Um. You know, we've seen women who you know, 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.440 women in the last thirty years were coming out of 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:01.959 poverty as a globe and now we're seeing a huge 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.880 setback in that arena. We're seeing set back in the 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.120 labor force, the number women who stepped back from the 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.120 labor force in the United States. Two thirds of the 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.760 jobs lost in South Africa were women's jobs. So I 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.880 think we're in a moment of crisis. Um. But then 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:19.560 on the flip side, I see these female leaders, Prime 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.240 Minister just into Art and Prime Minister Merkel how well 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.040 their countries are doing. Or I see these self bal 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:29.080 groups in in India that immediately mobilized and got messages 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:32.559 about COVID out to millions of people in northern India. 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.280 So I see the hope on the other side, but 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:39.000 there's a lot of work to do. I was planning 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.439 to ask you about New Zealand's just into art and 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.880 Germany's angle and Merkel. Do you think it's a coincidence 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.800 that both of these leaders who seem to have handled 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.360 the pandemic better than any other leader around the world, 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.400 do you think it's a coincidence that they're both women? 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.800 Not at all. You know, I spoke with both of 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.000 them pretty early in the crisis, but where New zealand 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.000 And had just taking care of COVID in their country 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.319 the first time, and um and Prime Minister Merkel had 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:08.800 it under control in Germany. And I was also speaking 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.200 to male leaders at the same time. But what I 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.600 what I noticed when I talked to these two women 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.680 a month apart, is that Prime Minister just Into Arden 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.800 was thinking about all the island nations around her and 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:22.880 that they were struggling, and so yes, they had it 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.200 under control in New Zealand, but she was thinking about 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:29.440 the whole ecosystem around them and everybody else. Prime Minister Merkel. 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.520 When I talked with her about, Wow, you all are 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.720 doing an amazing job, she wanted to talk about the 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.760 marginalized communities in Germany they weren't yet reaching, and she 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.400 wanted to talk about how they were taking patients in 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.280 from other countries into their emergency room. And I see you. 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.800 So they're thinking about everybody else. And I see that 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.440 sometimes in enlightened male leaders, but I think for the 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:56.680 women it just comes really naturally. So how did that 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.319 compare with your early conversations with the Trump administer ration 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:05.000 as you were working with the US government to deploy 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:09.000 your own resources. Well, I think you know, there were 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:13.160 certain people who are still in place who are absolutely incredible. 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.520 Tony Fauci from the get go, just an amazing leader, 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.000 Francis Collins at the NIH. But you know, to talk 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.080 to an administration who doesn't believe in science and basically 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.800 wants to put their blinders on in terms of what 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.160 the response needs to be in the United States, it 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:34.360 was incredibly frustrating. And I am very happy to see 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.120 a new administration who's not only taking this seriously but 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.720 taking very bold and concrete actions. That's what we should 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:44.240 expect as Americans. So, how have your conversations with a 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.839 Biden administration been so far? Now a few months into it, 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.200 you know, what are you happy about in terms of 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:53.680 what you're seeing, what needs work? I'm seeing the ad 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.640 Biden administration absolutely listen to the science, believe, listen to 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.600 the scientists, believe in the data. You're seeing them re 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.960 empower CDC. CDC just came out with great guidelines for 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:09.719 people who have been vaccinated. So they've taken these institutions 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.840 that were strong and robust and they're empowering them again. 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.640 I was incredibly pleased to see the latest stimulus package 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:22.760 pushed through and funded so swiftly for Americans. That's exactly 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.319 the kind of action we need as Americans. The Biden 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:31.520 administration just signed an executive order on gender equity on 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:36.280 International Women's Day. What are some other concrete, tangible things 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.400 you would like to see from the White House that 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.079 would really make a difference for women in this country. Well, 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.880 I'd love to see an innovation fund. You know, in 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.120 previous administrations there have been these innovation funds that make 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.240 sure we get new innovations for instancing climate change or 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.120 in other sectors. I would love to see an innovation 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.600 fund focused on childcare. We have a caregiving crisis, not 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.080 just care elderly care too. We have a caregiving crisis. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.960 And yet there are great ideas out there, solutions for 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:12.360 how you match markets, you match caregivers affordable, good, high 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:17.080 quality caregivers with parents, or you match grandparents with college 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.160 kids so they can get their prescriptions. Those kinds of 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.080 ideas need to be funded and come forward so that 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:26.880 we can come up with new innovations in society. When 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.320 it comes to women and how much they've back slid 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.160 in the pandemic, do you think we could see a 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:37.480 lost generation of women as a result of the trauma 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.719 that we they have experienced in the last year. I 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:46.040 think we could, but I don't think it's a necessary 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:48.679 or a necessity. And I think, you know, one of 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.439 the things that bind administration is talking about is paid 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:57.959 family medical leave. We're the only industrialized country in the 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.360 world that doesn't have it, and it's far from time 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.600 we had it. And so I think we can take 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.400 this crisis that's happened to women. Women are in crisis 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.920 at home, they are caring a lot, but we can 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:10.880 use it to say, we're not just going to propel 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.680 these women and help them back in the workforce. We're 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.320 going to change the structure of the workforce for the 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:20.240 next thirty years so we make it possible for moms 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:24.120 and dads or like minded partners to work. We're gonna 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.720 look at this as a forward looking workforce, not in 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:30.120 nineteen fifties workforce where our dads went to work and 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:34.960 our moms stayed home. Well, and speaking of how the 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.280 workforce will change going forward, I believe we're going to 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.960 be in a more hybrid environment in the future, more 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.440 flexible work, more people working from home. And I wonder 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.880 if we're going to continue to see women in this 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:49.240 difficult situation, like, how do you see the new normal 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.160 for women being different than the new normal for men? 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.400 And what should we be concerned about and preparing for. 0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:59.480 I think we need to make sure that women aren't 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.120 expect did to now continue to care for the children 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.720 and the elderly and keep their job going. It's it's 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.840 they're in a crisis that can't continue. The toll on 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.080 women is enormous, So I think we need to say, 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.400 how are we going to make sure we support women? 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.280 How do we bring them back into the workforce, how 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.880 do we reskill them if they want to change jobs, 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.200 How do we make sure they have access to good childcare, 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.400 potentially even good universal preschool. And then how do we 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.600 make sure as well that we're supporting them that if 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.920 they have a sick family member, there's not just maternity 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:38.640 leave or sick maternity days, but there's paid family medical leaves. 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.240 So even the dad leaves the office to take the 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.360 child to the pediatrician when the child gets sick, or 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:53.920 takes care of the elderly grandparents. You're listening to my 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:55.960 conversation with the co chair of the Bill and Melinda 0:15:55.960 --> 0:16:00.000 Gates Foundation, Melinda Gates coming up? What about the children? 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.840 And will this be the year of lost learning? How 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.120 has the global pandemic? Why didn't the digital divide and 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.520 is there actually enough money coming in from the philanthropic 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.480 world to fight the pandemic on its own? Gates says 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.280 governments need to up the ammy. I'm Emily Chang. This 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.920 is Bloomberg Studio. At one point, Oh stay with us. 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.080 When you wrote your book, you you shared that you 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.200 quit your own job at Microsoft because you were you 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.680 assumed that you should stay home and take care of 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.680 the kids. And then at a certain point you decided 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.720 you wanted to go back to work. What were your 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.760 motivations there? And you know, how would you encourage other 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:54.360 women to summon their motivations. I would say, you know, 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.360 you have to look at what you're doing and what 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.400 your expectations are. And I think for me it was 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.400 always what I it hit these frustration points of my gosh, 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.840 why am I doing all of this? And my husband 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.240 is not, you know, And and so I think we 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.200 all have to look at our homes and say who's 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:13.919 doing what and how do we redistribute that workload? And 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.200 we have to have those honest conversations with one another. 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.040 One of the stories I tell in my book when 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.280 I did want to go back to work was, you know, 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:23.320 Bill and I knew where we wanted to put our 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.120 children in school, but it was well far away from 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.240 our house, and I thought, hey, we could wait maybe 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:30.480 till fourth or fifth grade. And he was adamant. He 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.600 wanted them to start at preschool. And I just said, look, 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.720 I can't be on the road driving all the time. 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.280 I'm I see my road ahead and my life ahead 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.240 of the minivan. And so he finally offered to drive 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.480 the kids to school, and it not only changed a 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.040 norm and our family and he got that time with 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.119 the kids, but when he went into the classroom, other 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.920 debt moms expected their husbands then to drive because they said, 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.359 if the CEO Microsoft is driving his kids to school, 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.080 so can you. And it's those conversations at home, when 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.639 we see what's right there and we have awareness, we 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:06.560 have the difficult conversation that we remodel norms inadvertently. Actually 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:10.639 in society, I'm curious about female leadership and if you 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:15.760 think female leadership could suffer as a result of the pandemic, 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.760 we need more women leaders to help continue to pave 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.520 the way. But if they're running companies and households, does 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:26.160 that mean we won't see as many women advance into 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.680 leadership roles as we might have seen how the pandemic 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.680 not happen potentially, And that's why we need to make 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.920 sure we support them. I mean, there are fewer female 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.440 CEOs of Fortune five hundred companies today than when we 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.960 started into this pandemic. And you know, you can look 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:44.879 at those on a case by case basis, but you 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.840 also just have to look at what's coming up behind women. 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.560 You know what's coming up behind that CEO? How many 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:55.160 women and people of color are at all levels of leadership. 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.560 That's where I worry the most. And so without good supports, 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.639 without flexible work hours, without paid family medical leave, without 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.400 a network of support around them, yes, you will see 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.320 women drop out of these middle manager positions just as 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.679 they're climbing the ladder. And so when we go to 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.359 them promote somebody into the C suite, there just aren't 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:19.360 as many women. The harassment in the workforce, women change 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:24.000 their job. Women say they've been harassed in the workforce, 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.720 and when they are, they leave their job within a 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.040 two year rate. So they switch careers and they're not 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.879 climbing the same ladder. That's a barrier we've got to 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.280 look at. Now, we do have our first woman Vice 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.000 president who is also a woman of color, and I 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:39.800 don't know if it's a sign that that norms are 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.200 changing changing, But my sons don't understand why there has 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:47.080 never been a woman president. To them, it seems obvious, 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.320 and I wonder, do you think it's time for a 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:54.479 woman to lead this country? Absolutely, it's time, and you know, 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.160 and so there are many qualified women, but it's not 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.840 very easy to climb the ladder in politics. So that's 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.040 another place we need to support women at the local level, 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:07.520 state level, federal level. You know, we keep ticking up 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:09.680 slightly in Congress in terms of the number of women 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.080 in Congress, but guess what, we're still sixty years away 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.400 from equality in Congress. And I don't think it's surprising 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.080 that Kamala Harris came from the Senate. Those are great 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.400 places to learn how to have the ultimate leadership role. 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.600 But let's make sure women come up in politics so 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.040 they're ready, and so there's a plethora of women we 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.560 can choose from for the President of the United States. 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:35.480 What about children? After a year for many kids at home, 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.000 some of them don't even have access to a computer. 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.600 How concerned are you about the digital divide and a 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:47.720 lost years for our children, boys and girls. I'm quite concerned. So, 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:49.919 first of all, there are hundreds of millions of girls 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.160 around the world who are out of the education system, 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.320 and many of them won't actually go back. And here 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.840 in the United States, I'm most worried about the low 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.640 income children. As you say, they don't often have access 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.359 to broadband or to internet or a teacher who's got 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.520 a great curriculum to all of a sudden have to 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.879 switch and teach online. You know, that was a hard 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:16.000 switch for teachers, but it's also a really hard switch 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.520 for students, and so teachers have to be retrained and 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:22.600 reskilled in the moment. So, yes, they've lost a year 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:26.200 of schooling, but the learning losses could be even more 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:30.040 substantial for low income kids, and I'm quite concerned about that. 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.880 For those who have had access to technology, Uh, we've 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:38.159 had devices introduced to our children much sooner than we 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.280 ever wanted to and for some parents that is terrifying. 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:45.439 Are you concerned about screen time and the longer term 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:49.119 impact on a generation of kids. Yes, I think we 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.159 don't know what those impacts are. There is research that 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:54.680 some of which has come out, some of which is ongoing. 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.040 There are some positives, which is they can connect with friends, 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:03.880 they're connecting online, they're finding meaningful opportunities sometimes online. But yes, 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:05.440 I think we don't know what it means for a 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.600 generation of kids to be behind that screen so often. 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.000 And so I tell parents, you know, just be sensible, 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:13.760 make sure it gets out of their hands. We know 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:15.520 it's not great for a parent to be on and 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.960 spend forty extra minutes sucked into social media at night? 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.159 How can that be good for a kid. So, you know, 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.119 all those things that you know, we know are just 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.400 good parenting. Get the phone out of the room at night. 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:27.920 You know, take the hard steps. It's just going to 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:31.840 benefit your child. Do you think that school should reopen? 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.520 I mean, if adults are going to be vaccinated by 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:36.840 by May, maybe end of summer, it could be another 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:39.639 year before our children are vaccinated. Should schools reopen in 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:43.560 the fall? Regardless, I think schools will have to look 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:47.600