WEBVTT - The Acceleration of Artificial Intelligence

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, we've talked

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<v Speaker 1>with him before about the Rise of the Robots, and

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<v Speaker 1>now he has a sequel. It's just out back with

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<v Speaker 1>us as Martin Ford, he's entrepreneur, author of the New

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<v Speaker 1>York Times bestseller The Rise of the Robots, back with

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<v Speaker 1>us on his new book entitled Rule of the Robots,

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<v Speaker 1>How Artificial Intelligence will transform Everything, and Martin joining Katie

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<v Speaker 1>and myself on the phone and Silicon Valley. Martin, good

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<v Speaker 1>to have you back with us. You know robots. Katie

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<v Speaker 1>and I were talking a little bit in the break. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>For older folks, maybe you think about Lost in Space.

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<v Speaker 1>You might think about Star Wars. You think about Amazon

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<v Speaker 1>Distribution centers, Boston Dynamics, Spot or Big Dog Robots. You

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<v Speaker 1>wrote your previous AI, um, your previous book. I should

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<v Speaker 1>say what back in you talked about AI there. What's

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<v Speaker 1>what's changed between the Rise of the Robots and the

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<v Speaker 1>Rule of the Robots. Well, the story is that artificially

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<v Speaker 1>telling is accelerating. It's getting more and more powerful, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's really becoming almost like the utility. It's becoming like electricity.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's going to be everywhere um and and in

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<v Speaker 1>some cases it will be you know, physical actual robots, um.

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<v Speaker 1>But a lot of times it's algorithms working behind the scenes,

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<v Speaker 1>really impacting every aspect of our lives. So it's really

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's going to be one of the main

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<v Speaker 1>forces that shapes our future. It's really gonna have tremendous influence.

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<v Speaker 1>Katie is really worried about one thing. Go ahead, When

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<v Speaker 1>do I have to worry about when a robot is

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<v Speaker 1>going to take my job? Martin, I think about a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think. I don't think about any any movies,

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<v Speaker 1>just job security, right. I mean, it's it's a huge issue,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's what I started writing about in Lines of

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<v Speaker 1>the Robots in this book. I continue that, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's going to be a relentless trend. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>The pandemic in some ways has actually accelerated it because

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<v Speaker 1>we had this requirement for more social distancing. Right, if

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<v Speaker 1>you can use a robot or an algorithm to do

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<v Speaker 1>a job, then it means fewer people in that space

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<v Speaker 1>u um. And after the pandemic, of course, or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>around now we we we've actually run into a worker

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<v Speaker 1>shortage where um for various reasons, people have not yet

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<v Speaker 1>returned to the workforce, and that is also actually accelerating

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<v Speaker 1>and pushed to automation. There are lots of stories in

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<v Speaker 1>the news about restaurants and retail scores and so forth

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<v Speaker 1>that they're beginning to embrace automation because of this shortage,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's going to continue to accelerate into the future.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, eventually more people will return to the market

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<v Speaker 1>or to the job market, and of course businesses aren't

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<v Speaker 1>going to abandon these technologies, so they're going to continue

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<v Speaker 1>to get better. Robots are going to get more dexterous,

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<v Speaker 1>more able to do more of the things that people

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<v Speaker 1>can do, and the same is true of artificial intelligence algorithms.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's going to really impact work across the board,

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<v Speaker 1>from both unskilled work and more skilled work as well.

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<v Speaker 1>We've talked with John Taffer bar Rescue about increased automation

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<v Speaker 1>and restaurants, and he's talked about the lack of workers

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<v Speaker 1>coming back to the restaurant industry. Is this a good

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<v Speaker 1>thing going forward in that lower level, lower paying service

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<v Speaker 1>jobs are getting replaced by automation and robots, and that

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<v Speaker 1>gives workers an opportunity to elevate uh their skills and

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<v Speaker 1>their job opportunities. Yes, I mean to the extent that

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<v Speaker 1>that happens, right, But my concern, I guess, is that

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<v Speaker 1>there are going to be a lot of people that

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<v Speaker 1>there are going to struggle to find that better position. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Not everyone has the skills or a particular talents that

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<v Speaker 1>you might need. For example, when more routine jobs disappear,

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<v Speaker 1>the kinds of jobs where people tend to do the

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<v Speaker 1>same types of things again and again, then yes, there

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<v Speaker 1>are may be other opportunities in areas like, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>jobs that really require forming a deep relationship with other people,

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<v Speaker 1>UM think of a nurse or something like that, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Or there might be more opportunities in really creative fields

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<v Speaker 1>where you're kind of thinking outside the box. But not

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<v Speaker 1>everyone is is equipped to do that kind of work.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you can't expect that everyone is going to

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<v Speaker 1>become a a computer program or robotics engineer or or

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<v Speaker 1>um a counselor to help people. I mean needs require

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<v Speaker 1>specific talents, right that not everyone has. So I do

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<v Speaker 1>think there's a real risk that a significant fraction of

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<v Speaker 1>our workforce is gonna really struggle to keep up with

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<v Speaker 1>these trends. And Martin quickly, I'm curious what kind of

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<v Speaker 1>timeline we're talking about, because you mentioned that the pandemic

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<v Speaker 1>has accelerated it, the workers shortage has accelerated it. But

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<v Speaker 1>at what point does AI actually become, you know, as

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<v Speaker 1>common as electricity. I think over the next ten years

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<v Speaker 1>certainly will we'll see that develop. Um. It's it's to

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<v Speaker 1>a very real extent, is happening already. I mean AI

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<v Speaker 1>is is in almost everything. Um. And that's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be even more true. Um. And and again it's going

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<v Speaker 1>to get much more powerful. UM. Jeff Bezos, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>said that within ten years he expects to have robots

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<v Speaker 1>that can basically do what people do in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>grasping objects, which means that Amazon warehouses, you know, would

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<v Speaker 1>probably need a lot less people and they have right now. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's just one example, but we're going to see

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<v Speaker 1>that nearly across the board in terms of the capability

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<v Speaker 1>of this technology. And as you said, then we need

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<v Speaker 1>to upscale and train a lot of workers, which has

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<v Speaker 1>been an argument that you've heard from go all the

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<v Speaker 1>way back to I think Alan Greenspan in terms of,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, training workers for the jobs that are needed

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<v Speaker 1>for tomorrow. Hey, we're going to continue with Martin Ford.

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<v Speaker 1>He's entrepreneur, he's an author. His book that he wrote,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, The Rise of the Robots, that was a

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<v Speaker 1>New York Times bestseller. His new book, Rule of the Robots.

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna continue that conversation. Well, still with us is

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<v Speaker 1>Martin Ford. He's an entrepreneur and author. He wrote The

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<v Speaker 1>Rise of the Robots, How Artificial Intelligence Will Transform Everything.

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<v Speaker 1>His new book is on shelves now. That is the

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<v Speaker 1>Rule of the Robots, How Artificial Intelligence will Transform Everything.

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<v Speaker 1>And Martin, you know, we've had you with us and

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<v Speaker 1>we've I feel like we've been using the term robots

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<v Speaker 1>and AI kind of interchangeably. But is there a distinction

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<v Speaker 1>that we should draw there? They often are used somewhat

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<v Speaker 1>interchangeably because people, you know, think in terms of software robots.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, the way I would define it is

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<v Speaker 1>that artificial intelligence is clearly the underlying technology. It means,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, building machines that begin to exhibit what we

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<v Speaker 1>would call intelligence. Now when you turn it into a

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<v Speaker 1>physical machine, something that you know can physically manipulate the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Then then you're talking about a robot. But actually most

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<v Speaker 1>of artificial intelligence is really just software. You know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>intelligence being deployed on computers UM, and that definitely has

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<v Speaker 1>is going to have just as big an impact, if

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<v Speaker 1>not more than than actual robots. Well, you know what's

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<v Speaker 1>interesting is Katie's got a story that's actually on the

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Terma. It's among our most read and it's talking

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<v Speaker 1>about UM Martin. It's talking about Goldman Sachs specifically, how

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<v Speaker 1>they are looking for the next future tech leaders, basically

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<v Speaker 1>the next batch of Thangstock. So the disruptors, the innovators

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<v Speaker 1>in your book, you talked to a lot of it.

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<v Speaker 1>When it comes to a I for our audience, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>always thinking about the next trends. You know, who are

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<v Speaker 1>the Apples? Who are the Googles? Who are the facebooks

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<v Speaker 1>of tomorrow? Tell us about some of the people you

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<v Speaker 1>spoke with some of the companies that really stood out

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<v Speaker 1>for you. Well, the people I spoke with our our

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<v Speaker 1>artificial intelligence researchers UM for the most part, and they

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<v Speaker 1>work a lot of them work at companies like Google

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<v Speaker 1>and Facebook. Uh. But what I would say is that

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<v Speaker 1>AI is going to kind of underlie everything in the future,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the companies to emerge across different industries UM

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<v Speaker 1>as leaders are going to be those that really deploy

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<v Speaker 1>this technology effectively. It's going to become really just a

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<v Speaker 1>primary essential tool that UM is going to be critical

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<v Speaker 1>and creating value. And those companies that do it early

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<v Speaker 1>on and can deploy this this technology more rapidly are

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<v Speaker 1>very likely to have a first mover advantage UM. So

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<v Speaker 1>you look at companies like black Rock, for example, they're

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<v Speaker 1>suggested heavily in AI, UM Bridge that are confirmed, right, yeah, yeah, exactly,

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<v Speaker 1>Bridgewater they they've really you know, utilized it. Goldmen Sax

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<v Speaker 1>is another one certainly absolutely that they themselves have invested

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<v Speaker 1>in in a so on Wall Street. The companies that

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<v Speaker 1>do this, of course, are gaining an advantage because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the hedge funds are using artificial intelligence to trade and

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<v Speaker 1>the forecast and and so forth. It's true across every

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<v Speaker 1>every industry. UM Retailers like Walmart are are investing heavily

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<v Speaker 1>in in AI, and they're gonna i mean just to

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<v Speaker 1>bring automation into stores, but also in terms of logistics, planning,

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<v Speaker 1>UM and so forth. UM Basically, any company that controls

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of data, it's going to be in a

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<v Speaker 1>position to use artificial intelligence to essentially harvest the data

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<v Speaker 1>that value in that data um and and to leverage

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<v Speaker 1>that in different ways. When you talk about data, I

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<v Speaker 1>think about China, who's going to be especially based on

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<v Speaker 1>some of the recent moves by Beijing and Chinese government

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<v Speaker 1>officials and policymakers that they will be accumulating batches of

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<v Speaker 1>data like no one else. What advantage do you think

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<v Speaker 1>that that gives China going forward? Yeah, I mean this

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<v Speaker 1>is a huge issue. This is one of the most

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<v Speaker 1>important chapters in my book about the race between the

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<v Speaker 1>United States and the West generally and China. And China

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<v Speaker 1>does have a number of advantages. As you say, They've

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<v Speaker 1>got huge amounts of data because they've got an enormous

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<v Speaker 1>population four times our size UM and in many ways

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<v Speaker 1>they're also more connected than we are. You know, they

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<v Speaker 1>rely on They've got a uh an app called we Chat,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, that everyone uses on our smartphone to do

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<v Speaker 1>virtually every kind of transaction throughout their economy. So they

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<v Speaker 1>are much more reliant on mobile processing UM payments. For example,

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States is and that just means more data.

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<v Speaker 1>So they've got enormous amounts of data that they can

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<v Speaker 1>work with. They have less really constraints on you know,

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<v Speaker 1>because of issues like privacy and things like that, UM

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of companies being able to access that data

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<v Speaker 1>across areas healthcare and so forth, UM and in other

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<v Speaker 1>advantages because they've got such a huge population, there's got

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<v Speaker 1>an enormous number of talented engineers right that are coming

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<v Speaker 1>up through the system that have a very very strong

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<v Speaker 1>interest in learning about building artificial intelligence applications and they're

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<v Speaker 1>you know, rushing to do that. They're all, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>across the business landscape in China, there are huge numbers

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<v Speaker 1>of startup companies, many of which are are now unicorns billions,

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<v Speaker 1>and all the startups UM compete competing, especially in areas

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<v Speaker 1>like facial recognition and so forth. So there's a very

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<v Speaker 1>strong level of competition there. And you know, what's happening

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<v Speaker 1>in China is very much supported by and to some

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<v Speaker 1>extent funded by the Chinese government. Right they have an

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<v Speaker 1>explicit strategy to make China into a leader in artificial intelligence.

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<v Speaker 1>They want to at least get parody with the US

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<v Speaker 1>and perhaps maybe by the year you get beyond this.

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<v Speaker 1>So well, Martin, that gets into an area that I

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<v Speaker 1>really want to talk to you about because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we know the companies are really putting their muscles behind it.

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<v Speaker 1>And when it comes to countries, the nations you just

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned China trying to get to parity with the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>Where does the rest of the world fit in, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>many other countries are also about important initiatives. Israel is

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<v Speaker 1>very strong in artificial intelligence, as is you know, Russia,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, um, and you see more evidence of it

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<v Speaker 1>in Europe. You know, it is the nature of the

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<v Speaker 1>technology that, um, it doesn't matter that much who creates it,

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<v Speaker 1>who who develops it. It's going to be everywhere. So

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<v Speaker 1>artificial intelligence you're going to be deployed everywhere in every country.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's going to revolutionize um, you know, pretty much

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<v Speaker 1>every economy, I would say, so. So well, you know

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<v Speaker 1>what's interesting too though, right, there's tremendous upside to some

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<v Speaker 1>of that, But we talked about some of the dislocations

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<v Speaker 1>potentially for many of the workforce. I also think about

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<v Speaker 1>things like military and defense increasingly that is already automated,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's whether you're using drones it's more like a

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<v Speaker 1>video game. It's not hand to hand combat, although we

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<v Speaker 1>know that there's still a lot of that that goes

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<v Speaker 1>on unfortunately. But I do wonder is that a downside

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<v Speaker 1>that increasingly if it's a I used for weapons and

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<v Speaker 1>just got about thirty seconds here, I mean, that's one

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<v Speaker 1>of the downsides potentially. Yeah, that's one of the scariest

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<v Speaker 1>scenarios that you could have truly automated weapons that can

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<v Speaker 1>attack people, kill people without anyone specifically authorizing that. And

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<v Speaker 1>then the really scary thing is what if weapons like

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<v Speaker 1>that fall into the hands of terrorists, you know, outside

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<v Speaker 1>of legitimate the Sherry control. Well, Martin, that's that's truly scary.

0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:42.400
<v Speaker 1>It's so good to check in with you. It was

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<v Speaker 1>when we talked about Rise of the Robots, and so

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<v Speaker 1>great to catch up on your new book. Martin Ford.

0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Check out his new book. It's called Rule of the Robots.

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<v Speaker 1>How Artificial Intelligence will transform Everything.