WEBVTT - The Mark Moss Show Dec 03, 2021 0:00:02.120 --> 0:00:04.680 Welcome back. You are listening to the Mark Moss Show, 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:08.520 and we're talking about bitcoin, of course, bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, this 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.680 decentralized revolution that we are going through right now. It's 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:14.800 the most important part of your week, tuning in and 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:17.439 listening as I keep you caught up on what is 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.280 going on so you can have the strongholds, strong hands 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:23.840 to hold through these market dips that we're having today. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:27.240 I'm joined in the studio by Natalie Brunel. You can 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.480 find her on Twitter at nat Brunel. That's with two 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.800 els And uh, we thought we'd just talk about some 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.160 of the news. Nat, thanks so much for joining, Thanks 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.120 Mark for having me. Super excited to be here. Yeah, 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.200 so you know, it's a as as almost every week, 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:44.800 it's pretty eventful in the bitcoin space. Things are happening 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.400 really quick. Lots of news headlines are going on. But 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.919 there's something bigger than just this week that I've been 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:54.160 seeing and and big news broke out this week and 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:56.600 turning into be one of my favorite places in the 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.920 world right now, Al Salvador, and this news or article 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.760 came out and says El Salvador plans to be the 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:07.920 first bitcoin city backed by bitcoin loan big bitcoin bonds, 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.200 and it says that the city, the president of El 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.800 Salvador plan the city um in the eastern region of 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.440 law Union, which would get geo thermal power from a 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.759 volcano and not levy any taxes on the people except 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.440 for value added tax. And so basically the president saying, 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.440 invest here, you know, make all the money that you want, 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.000 keep it all and um, you know. He went on 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.000 to say that he thinks this is going to make 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:37.840 El Salvador the financial center of the world. And uh, 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.039 I think we're witnessing game theory and action. I love 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.360 to see this. In my opinion, I've been talking about 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.160 this for a long time. I think it's I think 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:49.000 it's very evident that the world is trending towards authoritarianism 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:54.440 more more oppression from all around, from a global minimum 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.720 tax to surveillance technology, etcetera. And I've been saying the 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.400 only thing I believe that breaks that trend of moving 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:05.120 towards authoritarianism is competition. And so when states start to 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.120 compete for each other and are forced to think of 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:10.640 you as a customer, Um, we'll get better service, better products, 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.280 better pricing. But when nations start competing, it's like a 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.959 whole another level. I mean, what do you think about that? Yeah, 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:19.919 I totally agree. And it's interesting that you even talk 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:23.200 about authoritarian governments because there are critics out there who 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.560 say that President Naive bu Kelly is a dictator, and 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.119 here he is promoting a currency that he will never 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.880 be able to manipulate or control. Right. And although I 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:34.960 know that some people had a gag reflect with just 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.079 the presentation of El Salvador, I personally didn't mind it, 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.480 but I mean it was amazing to witness him just 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:43.840 presenting this idea of a bitcoin city, zero percent capital 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.000 gains tax, zero percent property tax. Right, everything is funded 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.440 by these bonds that I think are very innovative, and 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:52.840 and the and a ten percent flat sales tax, which 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.400 I think will you know, attract entrepreneurs, attract innovation. And 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:58.960 they're planning on having it in the Gulf of Fonseka 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.160 right around that volcane. Know that they planned to harness 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.000 for power. They're going to build the energy infrastructure around it, 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:05.800 and I think, you know, once again we have the 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:09.600 chance for mining to really spur innovation in green energy. 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.120 And then hopefully, you know, these bonds will make some 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.720 folks a lot of money. It seems like UM block 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.440 stream is already having a lot of interest from people 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.200 from the Whales to enter this space. So it's a 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.880 really great announcement. Yeah, I just think, I mean, if 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.200 I like to look at these like little changes that 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:27.760 we have today, like like if you watch a movie, 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.359 like they go back in time and like, oh, don't 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:32.400 touch anything, because if you move one thing, it could 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.680 have this massive impact on the future. And so when 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:36.200 I look at this and I just think about how 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.200 big this can be. So like, UM, we're both from California. 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.120 UM California and New York were competing to be the 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:46.080 strictest under the lockdowns in Texas and Florida outcompeted them, 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.760 and most of Wall Street moved to Florida, a lot 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.720 of Silicon valleys moved to Texas. UM I went to 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:55.200 Puerto Rico. They gave me better business structure, and so 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:59.440 I took it. And so it's that competition loop. And 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:01.680 as youkind of pointed out, right, he's brought all these 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:05.840 people there that can come star businesses. Have no cap 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:10.720 games tax, no income tax, no property tax. Like that's 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.680 gonna attract a lot of people versus UM Like California 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:15.640 is like, well, we're just gonna increase property since since 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.599 since all the rich people left, let's increase property taxes 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.440 on people that are there. Like It's like, it's a 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:24.160 pretty stark difference. I think, Oh yeah, by the way, 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.919 I think the jobs numbers came out and California's fifty. 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.840 I mean, they brag about the economy here in California, 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.920 and yet we're we're coming in last place. But you're 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.920 absolutely right. And I love seeing the politicians in the 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:38.960 United States as well, sort of competing for this. We 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.720 have both the new Mayor of New York, Eric Adams, 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.400 as well as Mayor Francis Suarez in Miami, both saying 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.120 we want this city to be the hub. We wanted 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:49.520 to be the center for crypto and for this type 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.080 of business. And so I think it's gonna spur a 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.160 lot of um entrepreneurs and and a lot of you know, 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:57.599 maybe people just moving out there. I mean, I'm certainly 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.839 considering moving myself to a place that's a little bit 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:03.240 more friendly in terms of taxes and just the spirit 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.120 of this ecosystem and what it stands for. And I 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.760 was really excited about the the el Salvador News, and 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.200 I hope, I hope more countries go in this direction. 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:13.960 You know, that's something you said. They're like the spirit 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:15.720 of what it stands for. Right, So if you think 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.320 about it, like, um, I don't know if you agree, 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.279 but like from my standpoint, it's like I've been Del 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:23.200 Salvador many times. I spent a lot of time in 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.080 Central America surfing, mostly surfing, but I've been down there 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.800 and worked with Bitcoin Beach as well. And you know, 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.560 while America is better in terms of you have, you know, 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:37.039 more modern things and conveniences all those things, there's this spirit, 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.520 there's this air of things in decline versus if you 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.520 go down Del Salvador, which is a very poor country, 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.000 it's like a hundred and seven on gdp um. Then 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:48.040 there's not the conveniences that you would typically have, but 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.440 the air, the spirit is like optimism, it's like hope. 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:53.760 And I think that makes a big difference, just that 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.800 I completely agree with you. And it's so funny because 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.200 I swear like right now, I think a lot of 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.960 people are living on this false sort of high of 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.160 the stimulus, and you know, we have this massive, in 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.440 my opinion, asset bubble in the stock market. Housing prices 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.320 are through the roof, you know, rents or skyrocketing, and 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.680 you know, people got their their stimulus checks, and there 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.000 was sort of this idea that, oh, people saving rates 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.320 are up, people are spending money again. I think all 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.400 of this is just imaginary wealth. I think it's it's fake. 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.200 We are so leveraged, we are in such a big 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.680 bubble and it has to crash at some point um. 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.560 Yet we have the government sort of outlying any sort 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:31.479 of correction in the market, right because they're just going 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.120 to initiate more printing to save it, to keep propping 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.960 up what they've created. And we're in this fascinating place 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.599 where I think the average person knows that something's off, 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:41.760 like I don't. I don't know that they necessarily maybe 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.400 expect to crash, because I think they already assume the 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:46.560 government's going to come and rescue them. But there's this 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.560 general feeling of like, why, you know, we haven't even 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.560 recovered from the pandemic. Our economy is not back in action. 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.080 There's a ton of jobs that haven't been filled, people 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.440 are still at home, businesses have been shuttered. Yet we 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.160 have all time highs in the stock market like something's off. 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.520 It's it's so it feels like a video game that 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:06.080 we're watching. Sometimes another thing is back to that spirit. 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:10.600 So he Boukeley says, quote, invest here and make all 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.760 the money you want. Which in America we're basically trying 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.480 to penalize the rich. We're trying to victim or villainize 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.120 the rich. Right, if you make more money, you have 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.400 to give up more of your wealth. How dare you 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:24.800 have that? And he says, invest here and make all 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.360 the money that you want. And so, um, I think 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:32.920 that's cool. And then also like um, by leveraging something 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.640 like bitcoin, then they can go into like no no 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.280 property tax, no income tax, um. And then just leverage 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.600 it off of like a sales tax, which I which 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:44.840 I like. It's like a consumption tax, so you pay 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.200 for you pay for what you use. Um. Well yeah, 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:50.440 and that's how our country used to be when we 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.040 were on sort of that terraff system before we initiated 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.880 the income tax back in which was for a very 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.720 small percentage of the population. I would imagine that people 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:00.640 would never have voted in an in come tax that 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.360 they knew that eventually would hit like you know, all 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.720 of the middle class and sort of strangle the people 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.200 that are in the middle saving and and and having 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.880 day jobs that are enough to pay for for anything. 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:12.920 But I totally agree with you. And something I thought 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.440 of something when the whole else salvagere thing happened. I 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:18.080 was on the Twitter spaces that Nick Carter put on 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.600 where um, they were actually voting for bitcoin to be 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:23.320 legal tender, and it was it was I don't know 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:24.680 if you were on this, mark, but it was such 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:28.760 an amazing energy filled Twitter spaces where we had this 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.160 millennial president, you know, talking in real time to a 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.400 bunch of people across the world who are big bitcoiners 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.040 while the the you know, the elected officials are voting 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.079 on this in real time. We could hear the cheers 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.480 in the background, and he said something that I remember 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:44.120 where he was like when I was young, there was 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.000 a lot of hope when I thought about the future 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.400 that I would look into the future and there was 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.400 I would imagine spaceships, you know, when we're all traveling 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.480 and like spaceships, and it's like technologies, you know, has 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.880 taken over the world and everything is sort of writing 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.400 on this on on these rails that are are innovative, 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.400 and I don't know, it just prosperous. There's prospers there's 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:08.920 prosperity and technological innovation. And when he got older, it 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:13.440 was like the future is filled full of filled with uncertainty, 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:17.920 and there's instability in the nation, and like how much 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.280 has changed since he was little and he's hoping to 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:22.920 bring back some of that hope through this decision. And 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.680 I think that that was that was really interesting to me. Yeah, 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:27.920 that's great. You're listening to the Mark mos show. I'm 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.079 on with Natalie Brunell. I want to come back and 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.160 tell you more about El Salvador. We'll be right back, 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:35.480 all right, welcome back. You are listening to the Mark 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.280 Moa Show and we're talking about bitcoin. Of course, we're 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:42.440 talking about cryptocurrencies and we're talking about this decentralized revolution 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.360 that's changing the world. I'm in the studio right now 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.760 with Natalie Brunel. You can find her on Twitter at 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:52.599 Matt Brunel, and we're talking about something that's going to 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.360 change the whole face of the world. We're literally talking 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.199 about something that big, and we're talking about what El 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:03.480 Salvador is doing um to make this Bitcoin city another 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.079 thing that I was thinking about, Natalie, is that, Um, 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.640 in order to build this bitcoin city, they are going 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.800 to power it with a volcano. And if you think 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.319 about this for a second, so like, um, if you 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.240 look at you know, throughout history, all the wealth of 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:24.760 nations came from uh the nation having natural resources, so water, gold, oil, 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.480 things like that, and typically the nations had the more 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.200 natural resources were more wealthy. And El Salvador being ranked 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.400 a hundred and seven on GDP, they don't have any 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.360 natural resources. They have like coconuts, and like that's kind 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.120 of it, um, But they have this volcano and like 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.880 so what like what's the volcano worth? Right, And it's like, well, 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.560 the volcano has heat, and okay, well the heat can 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:48.600 make electricity. Okay, but you can't ship electricity. You can't 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:50.280 even move it to the rest of the country. It's 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.400 only there locally, so it's no good. And now they 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.000 can mind bitcoin with it, and they can use that 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.320 energy to power the city because it's local, and then 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.080 they could use the money from that coin to pay 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:02.679 for the city, which is why they don't have to 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.800 levy so much taxes on it. And so that's big, right. 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:08.960 But then like think about it, like, um, how could 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.480 this reshape the world? Because Um, as a surfer, I've 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.199 traveled all over the world surfing. I'd love to go 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.839 through the South Pacific and to the South Pacific. You 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:21.080 have all these little a tolls with volcanoes, all these 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.559 little islands that have no noutive resources but they have volcanoes, 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.640 and like, this could probably redraw the entire power structure 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.000 of the world. Yeah, I think it's something that's so 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.360 amazing and exciting. It's crazy to think that this was 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:35.840 kind of thrown out as an idea by Max Kaiser. 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:37.439 I don't know if you you saw that, but he 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.280 was the one that first I believe, suggested volcano bonds, 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:42.480 and I think it's fantastic. I mean, I think this 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.920 was a really creative idea to basically structure the bonds 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.199 in such a way that five million will be used 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.319 to actually build that energy infrastructure, and then the other 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:53.559 five hundred will be used to buy the bitcoins that 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.599 will finance you know, people getting their their yield on this. 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:58.960 My one question is, you know what's going to happen 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.600 when they planned this sell some of their bitcoins because 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:03.400 I don't know if you read part of that. But 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.559 they eventually will will sell so that they can pay 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:08.599 dividends to the people who own these bonds. And I 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.080 don't know how that would affect the market, but I mean, 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.319 think about how just creative and progressive you have to 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.200 be as an elected official to do something that's never 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:20.800 been done like this, and all for the benefit hopefully 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:24.480 of tapping into a natural resource like your your volcano, 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.960 which now could be used to power you know, mining efforts. 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:30.640 It's just it's just incredible to me. And think about 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.080 it from a different level too. So, um, the world's 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:34.960 drowning in debt. Since we got off the gold standard 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.480 fifty years ago in August, we've come up with over 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.880 three hundred trillion dollars worth of debt. When a nation 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.199 wants to take on debt, they issue a bond and 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.520 so people buy that bond, and you're supposed to when 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.200 you buy the bond, you're loaning the money. You're supposed 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.199 to get interest. Well, half of the sovereign bonds today 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.320 are negative yielding, So we have about eighteen trillion dollars 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.199 of bonds that actually don't pay you. You actually have 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.760 to pay them to loan them your money. Which makes 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:00.640 no sense. Only in a world of free money would 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.120 you have that. Um. So half the half the bonds 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:04.839 are paying nothing. And even in the United States, it's 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.040 you know, ten years whatever one and a half percent today, 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.760 but inflation is over six so you're still losing money 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.679 even on that. And so you have all this money 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:14.760 that doesn't know where to go, and it's going into 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.040 negative yielding bonds. And now they come out with a 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.959 bond at six and a half percent, which is like 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.000 pretty big compared to everybody else. So like they're out 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.520 competing again, back to that kind of competition thing. So 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:30.040 to your point, and they're raising a billion dollars. Half 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.520 of it goes to build out the energy, the mining, 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:35.880 the facility, and then half of it goes to buy 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.800 bitcoin directly. Um. What they're saying is they're gonna lock 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:41.640 it up for five years and they'll pay the six 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.560 and a half percent and then kind of to your point, Um, 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:48.760 they'll start selling the bitcoin after year five to start 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:53.920 paying additional on that based off of blockstream numbers, which, Um, 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.640 I'm a big bitcoin bull. Uh, they're a little bit 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.240 bullish even for me. Um, they're saying, you know, bitcoin 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.679 hit in the price of a million dollars in like 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:03.640 five years, which I think is a little bit aggressive. 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.640 I think five d in five years is probably realistic, 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:10.199 but who who knows? Um? But anyway, Um, then they'll 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:11.959 start selling it and they say the bonds could pay 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.839 up to a hundred and forty six percent, depend on 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:20.360 what bitcoins performances and so what like eighteen trillings eighteen 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.480 trilling dollars and bonds are negative yielding, and here you 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.960 can potentially make up to a hundred and I know exactly. 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.040 And it was really interesting because I saw Samson Mow 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.520 on an interview with Bloomberg and the reporter was pressing 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.080 him because actually El Salvador's bond right now pays the 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.400 yield of thirteen percent, So she's like, why would anyone 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.520 choose the six point five? And it's like, no, no, no, 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.920 you're not seeing the bigger picture. And and that's where 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:42.760 you do. You have to believe in this technology. You 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.880 have to be super bullish because the estimates are based 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.040 on those future price you know, predictions. And it's kind 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:50.680 of sad because right now we're looking at the stock 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:52.520 to flow, right and we're kind of like, what's going 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.120 on why are we at that level where you should 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.080 be at the six figure mark already? But I do 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.360 have faith that that we will get there and and 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:01.680 we'll see how the sponds payoff. Yeah, and if you 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:03.440 look at if you look at this too, it's no 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.040 different than what Michael Sailor has done with micro Strategy. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.760 He's done several of these um Now in the last 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.040 two weeks or so, I think we've seen at least 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.760 four or five publicly traded bitcoin mining companies do the 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.600 same thing, issue bonds to go buy bitcoin. So Michaels, 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:20.560 you know, micro Strategy has done it a couple of times, 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.440 and they're oversubscribed every time. You know, they've done a 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.120 billion dollars um. All these bitcoin companies have done hundreds 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.040 of millions of dollars each, So we've seen billions of 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.960 dollars of appetite for this UM so I have no 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.280 doubt they'll fill this up pretty quickly. Yeah, I agree, 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.400 And I think that just anything that provides more of 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.360 these on ramps onto this sort of highway of getting 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.560 into bitcoin, especially institutions that maybe are not able to 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.800 own bitcoin directly. These bonds and and the e t 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:47.600 f s that were past a couple of weeks ago. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.160 All of these are pathways for more adoption, which I 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.920 think is is so incredibly important. Yeah, you mentioned earlier, 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.720 you know, about the politics side, and some people call 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.400 him a dictator. I think he even I don't know, 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.560 maybe joking around on Twitter changed you know, said call 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:07.800 himselves the dictator or something like that. Um. I don't 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:09.960 know enough of the politics to really get involved to 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.480 put my opinion into that. UM. I try to, you know, 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.080 judge a person as as I as I learned about 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.040 them and based off of what I've been seeing. I 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:18.960 haven't really seen that, so I'm not sure where all 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.960 the grape is on that. Yeah, I haven't either. You know, 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:26.040 I'm sure that there are more nuances that maybe we're 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:28.760 not familiar with, especially not living in El Salvador. But 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.080 I do think that once again, you have to give 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:35.320 someone credit for embracing a technology that he will never 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.960 be able to control as a government or as you know, 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.200 a treasury. This is something that's by the people for 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.520 the people. It's completely organic, it's not venture capital backed. 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.120 I just think that, you know, by moving in this direction, 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.200 it's in that positive especially for a country that has 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.880 been dealing with so many debt issues, it's like, why 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.680 not try something outside of the box. Why not? What 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:57.560 do you have to lose at this point? So I 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.720 think it's great. I mean, people obviously are still able 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:03.160 to transact in US dollars, but I think if bitcoin 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.680 is headed in the direction we expect, this will be very, 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:10.879 very powerful as a tool for allowing prosperity and for 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.440 you know, wealth accumulation in Al Salvador. Yeah, I've just 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.159 been saying I think that, you know, bitcoin is a 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.800 political Bitcoin isn't for one political party or another. It's 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.680 not for one economic system or another. It's just a 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.840 political It's just a tool. So whatever happens, Um, you know, 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.320 if if for some reason he turns out to be 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.399 a bad actor and tries to do something nefarious, like, 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.840 don't assign that to bitcoin. That's not Bitcoin's fault. Um, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:39.879 you know, if he if he does something bad, we 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:41.280 have to kind of look at that separately. So I 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.560 do want people to at least make that distinction that 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:47.720 is not this political tool. By the way, you're listening 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.000 to the Mark Moss Show, we're talking about bitcoin. If 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.159 you haven't figured it out already, we're talking about the 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.040 cryptocurrencies and this decentralized revolution. I'm in the studio with 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.880 Natalie Brunel. You can find her at Nott Brunel on Twitter. 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.480 Send her a message and say hi. When we come back, 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.520 I want to talk about UM some other game theory 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.840 that's going on between nations, UM, but maybe in the 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:14.439 opposite direction. So don't go away, we'll right back. All right, 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.640 Welcome back. You are listening to the Mark Mos Show, 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.840 and we're here talking about bitcoin, and we're talking about cryptocurrencies, 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:25.280 and we're talking about the decentralized revolution that's literally changing 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.480 the entire world. It's going to change the way humanity works. 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.920 We're witnessing it all happening right now. I know that 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.040 the world is scary, and I know there's a lot 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:35.840 of bad things going on, and trust me, I see it. 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.680 But there's also some amazing things happening, and history books 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.320 are going to be written about this time and place, 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:44.520 and that's what we're talking about right now. Hopefully you 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.040 can see how big it is. I'm in the studio 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.760 with my friend Natalie Brunell. You can find her at 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.399 nat Brunell. Of course, I'm one Mark Moss that's the 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.080 number one. Mark Moss. Before the break, we were talking 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:59.040 about how El Salvador is really ramping up the game 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:03.000 theory by opening up their country. They've removed all mandates 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.240 and restrictions on the health type stuff. UM, They've opened 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:09.280 it up for business. They're allowing investment in business to 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.960 come in. They're not charging them any sales tax or 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.240 property tax. I mean, they're basically just saying we're going 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.680 to outcompete everybody, come and get us, and just opening 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:21.280 everything up, which I love. On the other side of that, 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.680 which is pretty interesting to see play out in real time, 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.800