1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Welcome back. You are listening to the Mark Moss Show, 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: and we're talking about bitcoin, of course, bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, this 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: decentralized revolution that we are going through right now. It's 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: the most important part of your week, tuning in and 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: listening as I keep you caught up on what is 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: going on so you can have the strongholds, strong hands 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: to hold through these market dips that we're having today. 8 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: I'm joined in the studio by Natalie Brunel. You can 9 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: find her on Twitter at nat Brunel. That's with two 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: els And uh, we thought we'd just talk about some 11 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: of the news. Nat, thanks so much for joining, Thanks 12 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: Mark for having me. Super excited to be here. Yeah, 13 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: so you know, it's a as as almost every week, 14 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: it's pretty eventful in the bitcoin space. Things are happening 15 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: really quick. Lots of news headlines are going on. But 16 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: there's something bigger than just this week that I've been 17 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: seeing and and big news broke out this week and 18 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: turning into be one of my favorite places in the 19 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: world right now, Al Salvador, and this news or article 20 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: came out and says El Salvador plans to be the 21 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: first bitcoin city backed by bitcoin loan big bitcoin bonds, 22 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: and it says that the city, the president of El 23 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: Salvador plan the city um in the eastern region of 24 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: law Union, which would get geo thermal power from a 25 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: volcano and not levy any taxes on the people except 26 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: for value added tax. And so basically the president saying, 27 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: invest here, you know, make all the money that you want, 28 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: keep it all and um, you know. He went on 29 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: to say that he thinks this is going to make 30 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: El Salvador the financial center of the world. And uh, 31 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: I think we're witnessing game theory and action. I love 32 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: to see this. In my opinion, I've been talking about 33 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: this for a long time. I think it's I think 34 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: it's very evident that the world is trending towards authoritarianism 35 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: more more oppression from all around, from a global minimum 36 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: tax to surveillance technology, etcetera. And I've been saying the 37 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: only thing I believe that breaks that trend of moving 38 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: towards authoritarianism is competition. And so when states start to 39 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: compete for each other and are forced to think of 40 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: you as a customer, Um, we'll get better service, better products, 41 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: better pricing. But when nations start competing, it's like a 42 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,959 Speaker 1: whole another level. I mean, what do you think about that? Yeah, 43 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: I totally agree. And it's interesting that you even talk 44 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: about authoritarian governments because there are critics out there who 45 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: say that President Naive bu Kelly is a dictator, and 46 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 1: here he is promoting a currency that he will never 47 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: be able to manipulate or control. Right. And although I 48 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: know that some people had a gag reflect with just 49 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: the presentation of El Salvador, I personally didn't mind it, 50 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: but I mean it was amazing to witness him just 51 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: presenting this idea of a bitcoin city, zero percent capital 52 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: gains tax, zero percent property tax. Right, everything is funded 53 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: by these bonds that I think are very innovative, and 54 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: and the and a ten percent flat sales tax, which 55 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: I think will you know, attract entrepreneurs, attract innovation. And 56 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: they're planning on having it in the Gulf of Fonseka 57 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: right around that volcane. Know that they planned to harness 58 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: for power. They're going to build the energy infrastructure around it, 59 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: and I think, you know, once again we have the 60 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: chance for mining to really spur innovation in green energy. 61 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: And then hopefully, you know, these bonds will make some 62 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: folks a lot of money. It seems like UM block 63 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: stream is already having a lot of interest from people 64 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: from the Whales to enter this space. So it's a 65 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: really great announcement. Yeah, I just think, I mean, if 66 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: I like to look at these like little changes that 67 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: we have today, like like if you watch a movie, 68 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: like they go back in time and like, oh, don't 69 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: touch anything, because if you move one thing, it could 70 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: have this massive impact on the future. And so when 71 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: I look at this and I just think about how 72 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: big this can be. So like, UM, we're both from California. 73 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: UM California and New York were competing to be the 74 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: strictest under the lockdowns in Texas and Florida outcompeted them, 75 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: and most of Wall Street moved to Florida, a lot 76 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: of Silicon valleys moved to Texas. UM I went to 77 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico. They gave me better business structure, and so 78 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: I took it. And so it's that competition loop. And 79 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: as youkind of pointed out, right, he's brought all these 80 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: people there that can come star businesses. Have no cap 81 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: games tax, no income tax, no property tax. Like that's 82 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: gonna attract a lot of people versus UM Like California 83 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: is like, well, we're just gonna increase property since since 84 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: since all the rich people left, let's increase property taxes 85 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: on people that are there. Like It's like, it's a 86 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: pretty stark difference. I think, Oh yeah, by the way, 87 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: I think the jobs numbers came out and California's fifty. 88 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: I mean, they brag about the economy here in California, 89 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: and yet we're we're coming in last place. But you're 90 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: absolutely right. And I love seeing the politicians in the 91 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: United States as well, sort of competing for this. We 92 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: have both the new Mayor of New York, Eric Adams, 93 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: as well as Mayor Francis Suarez in Miami, both saying 94 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: we want this city to be the hub. We wanted 95 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: to be the center for crypto and for this type 96 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: of business. And so I think it's gonna spur a 97 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: lot of um entrepreneurs and and a lot of you know, 98 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: maybe people just moving out there. I mean, I'm certainly 99 00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: considering moving myself to a place that's a little bit 100 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: more friendly in terms of taxes and just the spirit 101 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: of this ecosystem and what it stands for. And I 102 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: was really excited about the the el Salvador News, and 103 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: I hope, I hope more countries go in this direction. 104 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: You know, that's something you said. They're like the spirit 105 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: of what it stands for. Right, So if you think 106 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: about it, like, um, I don't know if you agree, 107 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: but like from my standpoint, it's like I've been Del 108 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: Salvador many times. I spent a lot of time in 109 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: Central America surfing, mostly surfing, but I've been down there 110 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: and worked with Bitcoin Beach as well. And you know, 111 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: while America is better in terms of you have, you know, 112 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: more modern things and conveniences all those things, there's this spirit, 113 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: there's this air of things in decline versus if you 114 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: go down Del Salvador, which is a very poor country, 115 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: it's like a hundred and seven on gdp um. Then 116 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: there's not the conveniences that you would typically have, but 117 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: the air, the spirit is like optimism, it's like hope. 118 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: And I think that makes a big difference, just that 119 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: I completely agree with you. And it's so funny because 120 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: I swear like right now, I think a lot of 121 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: people are living on this false sort of high of 122 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: the stimulus, and you know, we have this massive, in 123 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: my opinion, asset bubble in the stock market. Housing prices 124 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: are through the roof, you know, rents or skyrocketing, and 125 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: you know, people got their their stimulus checks, and there 126 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: was sort of this idea that, oh, people saving rates 127 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: are up, people are spending money again. I think all 128 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: of this is just imaginary wealth. I think it's it's fake. 129 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: We are so leveraged, we are in such a big 130 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: bubble and it has to crash at some point um. 131 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: Yet we have the government sort of outlying any sort 132 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: of correction in the market, right because they're just going 133 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: to initiate more printing to save it, to keep propping 134 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: up what they've created. And we're in this fascinating place 135 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: where I think the average person knows that something's off, 136 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: like I don't. I don't know that they necessarily maybe 137 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: expect to crash, because I think they already assume the 138 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: government's going to come and rescue them. But there's this 139 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: general feeling of like, why, you know, we haven't even 140 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: recovered from the pandemic. Our economy is not back in action. 141 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: There's a ton of jobs that haven't been filled, people 142 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: are still at home, businesses have been shuttered. Yet we 143 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: have all time highs in the stock market like something's off. 144 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: It's it's so it feels like a video game that 145 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: we're watching. Sometimes another thing is back to that spirit. 146 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: So he Boukeley says, quote, invest here and make all 147 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: the money you want. Which in America we're basically trying 148 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: to penalize the rich. We're trying to victim or villainize 149 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: the rich. Right, if you make more money, you have 150 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: to give up more of your wealth. How dare you 151 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: have that? And he says, invest here and make all 152 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: the money that you want. And so, um, I think 153 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: that's cool. And then also like um, by leveraging something 154 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: like bitcoin, then they can go into like no no 155 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: property tax, no income tax, um. And then just leverage 156 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: it off of like a sales tax, which I which 157 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: I like. It's like a consumption tax, so you pay 158 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: for you pay for what you use. Um. Well yeah, 159 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: and that's how our country used to be when we 160 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: were on sort of that terraff system before we initiated 161 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: the income tax back in which was for a very 162 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: small percentage of the population. I would imagine that people 163 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: would never have voted in an in come tax that 164 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: they knew that eventually would hit like you know, all 165 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: of the middle class and sort of strangle the people 166 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: that are in the middle saving and and and having 167 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: day jobs that are enough to pay for for anything. 168 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: But I totally agree with you. And something I thought 169 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: of something when the whole else salvagere thing happened. I 170 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: was on the Twitter spaces that Nick Carter put on 171 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: where um, they were actually voting for bitcoin to be 172 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: legal tender, and it was it was I don't know 173 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: if you were on this, mark, but it was such 174 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: an amazing energy filled Twitter spaces where we had this 175 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: millennial president, you know, talking in real time to a 176 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: bunch of people across the world who are big bitcoiners 177 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: while the the you know, the elected officials are voting 178 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: on this in real time. We could hear the cheers 179 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: in the background, and he said something that I remember 180 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: where he was like when I was young, there was 181 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: a lot of hope when I thought about the future 182 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: that I would look into the future and there was 183 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: I would imagine spaceships, you know, when we're all traveling 184 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: and like spaceships, and it's like technologies, you know, has 185 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: taken over the world and everything is sort of writing 186 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: on this on on these rails that are are innovative, 187 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: and I don't know, it just prosperous. There's prospers there's 188 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: prosperity and technological innovation. And when he got older, it 189 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: was like the future is filled full of filled with uncertainty, 190 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: and there's instability in the nation, and like how much 191 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: has changed since he was little and he's hoping to 192 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: bring back some of that hope through this decision. And 193 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: I think that that was that was really interesting to me. Yeah, 194 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: that's great. You're listening to the Mark mos show. I'm 195 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: on with Natalie Brunell. I want to come back and 196 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: tell you more about El Salvador. We'll be right back, 197 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: all right, welcome back. You are listening to the Mark 198 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: Moa Show and we're talking about bitcoin. Of course, we're 199 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: talking about cryptocurrencies and we're talking about this decentralized revolution 200 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: that's changing the world. I'm in the studio right now 201 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: with Natalie Brunel. You can find her on Twitter at 202 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:52,599 Speaker 1: Matt Brunel, and we're talking about something that's going to 203 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: change the whole face of the world. We're literally talking 204 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: about something that big, and we're talking about what El 205 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: Salvador is doing um to make this Bitcoin city another 206 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 1: thing that I was thinking about, Natalie, is that, Um, 207 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: in order to build this bitcoin city, they are going 208 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: to power it with a volcano. And if you think 209 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: about this for a second, so like, um, if you 210 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: look at you know, throughout history, all the wealth of 211 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: nations came from uh the nation having natural resources, so water, gold, oil, 212 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: things like that, and typically the nations had the more 213 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: natural resources were more wealthy. And El Salvador being ranked 214 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: a hundred and seven on GDP, they don't have any 215 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: natural resources. They have like coconuts, and like that's kind 216 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: of it, um, But they have this volcano and like 217 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: so what like what's the volcano worth? Right, And it's like, well, 218 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: the volcano has heat, and okay, well the heat can 219 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: make electricity. Okay, but you can't ship electricity. You can't 220 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: even move it to the rest of the country. It's 221 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: only there locally, so it's no good. And now they 222 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: can mind bitcoin with it, and they can use that 223 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: energy to power the city because it's local, and then 224 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: they could use the money from that coin to pay 225 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 1: for the city, which is why they don't have to 226 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: levy so much taxes on it. And so that's big, right. 227 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: But then like think about it, like, um, how could 228 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: this reshape the world? Because Um, as a surfer, I've 229 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: traveled all over the world surfing. I'd love to go 230 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 1: through the South Pacific and to the South Pacific. You 231 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: have all these little a tolls with volcanoes, all these 232 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: little islands that have no noutive resources but they have volcanoes, 233 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: and like, this could probably redraw the entire power structure 234 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: of the world. Yeah, I think it's something that's so 235 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: amazing and exciting. It's crazy to think that this was 236 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: kind of thrown out as an idea by Max Kaiser. 237 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: I don't know if you you saw that, but he 238 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: was the one that first I believe, suggested volcano bonds, 239 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: and I think it's fantastic. I mean, I think this 240 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: was a really creative idea to basically structure the bonds 241 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: in such a way that five million will be used 242 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: to actually build that energy infrastructure, and then the other 243 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: five hundred will be used to buy the bitcoins that 244 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,599 Speaker 1: will finance you know, people getting their their yield on this. 245 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: My one question is, you know what's going to happen 246 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: when they planned this sell some of their bitcoins because 247 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: I don't know if you read part of that. But 248 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: they eventually will will sell so that they can pay 249 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,599 Speaker 1: dividends to the people who own these bonds. And I 250 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: don't know how that would affect the market, but I mean, 251 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: think about how just creative and progressive you have to 252 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: be as an elected official to do something that's never 253 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: been done like this, and all for the benefit hopefully 254 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: of tapping into a natural resource like your your volcano, 255 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: which now could be used to power you know, mining efforts. 256 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: It's just it's just incredible to me. And think about 257 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: it from a different level too. So, um, the world's 258 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: drowning in debt. Since we got off the gold standard 259 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: fifty years ago in August, we've come up with over 260 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: three hundred trillion dollars worth of debt. When a nation 261 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: wants to take on debt, they issue a bond and 262 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: so people buy that bond, and you're supposed to when 263 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: you buy the bond, you're loaning the money. You're supposed 264 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: to get interest. Well, half of the sovereign bonds today 265 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: are negative yielding, So we have about eighteen trillion dollars 266 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: of bonds that actually don't pay you. You actually have 267 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: to pay them to loan them your money. Which makes 268 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: no sense. Only in a world of free money would 269 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: you have that. Um. So half the half the bonds 270 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 1: are paying nothing. And even in the United States, it's 271 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, ten years whatever one and a half percent today, 272 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: but inflation is over six so you're still losing money 273 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: even on that. And so you have all this money 274 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: that doesn't know where to go, and it's going into 275 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: negative yielding bonds. And now they come out with a 276 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: bond at six and a half percent, which is like 277 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: pretty big compared to everybody else. So like they're out 278 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: competing again, back to that kind of competition thing. So 279 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: to your point, and they're raising a billion dollars. Half 280 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: of it goes to build out the energy, the mining, 281 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: the facility, and then half of it goes to buy 282 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: bitcoin directly. Um. What they're saying is they're gonna lock 283 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: it up for five years and they'll pay the six 284 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: and a half percent and then kind of to your point, Um, 285 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: they'll start selling the bitcoin after year five to start 286 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: paying additional on that based off of blockstream numbers, which, Um, 287 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: I'm a big bitcoin bull. Uh, they're a little bit 288 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: bullish even for me. Um, they're saying, you know, bitcoin 289 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: hit in the price of a million dollars in like 290 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: five years, which I think is a little bit aggressive. 291 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: I think five d in five years is probably realistic, 292 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 1: but who who knows? Um? But anyway, Um, then they'll 293 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 1: start selling it and they say the bonds could pay 294 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: up to a hundred and forty six percent, depend on 295 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: what bitcoins performances and so what like eighteen trillings eighteen 296 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: trilling dollars and bonds are negative yielding, and here you 297 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: can potentially make up to a hundred and I know exactly. 298 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: And it was really interesting because I saw Samson Mow 299 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: on an interview with Bloomberg and the reporter was pressing 300 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: him because actually El Salvador's bond right now pays the 301 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: yield of thirteen percent, So she's like, why would anyone 302 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: choose the six point five? And it's like, no, no, no, 303 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: you're not seeing the bigger picture. And and that's where 304 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: you do. You have to believe in this technology. You 305 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: have to be super bullish because the estimates are based 306 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: on those future price you know, predictions. And it's kind 307 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: of sad because right now we're looking at the stock 308 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: to flow, right and we're kind of like, what's going 309 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: on why are we at that level where you should 310 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: be at the six figure mark already? But I do 311 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: have faith that that we will get there and and 312 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: we'll see how the sponds payoff. Yeah, and if you 313 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: look at if you look at this too, it's no 314 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: different than what Michael Sailor has done with micro Strategy. 315 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: He's done several of these um Now in the last 316 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: two weeks or so, I think we've seen at least 317 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: four or five publicly traded bitcoin mining companies do the 318 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: same thing, issue bonds to go buy bitcoin. So Michaels, 319 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: you know, micro Strategy has done it a couple of times, 320 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: and they're oversubscribed every time. You know, they've done a 321 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: billion dollars um. All these bitcoin companies have done hundreds 322 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars each, So we've seen billions of 323 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: dollars of appetite for this UM so I have no 324 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: doubt they'll fill this up pretty quickly. Yeah, I agree, 325 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: And I think that just anything that provides more of 326 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: these on ramps onto this sort of highway of getting 327 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: into bitcoin, especially institutions that maybe are not able to 328 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: own bitcoin directly. These bonds and and the e t 329 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: f s that were past a couple of weeks ago. 330 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: All of these are pathways for more adoption, which I 331 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: think is is so incredibly important. Yeah, you mentioned earlier, 332 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: you know, about the politics side, and some people call 333 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: him a dictator. I think he even I don't know, 334 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: maybe joking around on Twitter changed you know, said call 335 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: himselves the dictator or something like that. Um. I don't 336 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: know enough of the politics to really get involved to 337 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: put my opinion into that. UM. I try to, you know, 338 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: judge a person as as I as I learned about 339 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: them and based off of what I've been seeing. I 340 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: haven't really seen that, so I'm not sure where all 341 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: the grape is on that. Yeah, I haven't either. You know, 342 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure that there are more nuances that maybe we're 343 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: not familiar with, especially not living in El Salvador. But 344 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: I do think that once again, you have to give 345 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: someone credit for embracing a technology that he will never 346 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: be able to control as a government or as you know, 347 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: a treasury. This is something that's by the people for 348 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: the people. It's completely organic, it's not venture capital backed. 349 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: I just think that, you know, by moving in this direction, 350 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: it's in that positive especially for a country that has 351 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: been dealing with so many debt issues, it's like, why 352 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: not try something outside of the box. Why not? What 353 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: do you have to lose at this point? So I 354 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: think it's great. I mean, people obviously are still able 355 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: to transact in US dollars, but I think if bitcoin 356 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: is headed in the direction we expect, this will be very, 357 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: very powerful as a tool for allowing prosperity and for 358 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: you know, wealth accumulation in Al Salvador. Yeah, I've just 359 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: been saying I think that, you know, bitcoin is a 360 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: political Bitcoin isn't for one political party or another. It's 361 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: not for one economic system or another. It's just a 362 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: political It's just a tool. So whatever happens, Um, you know, 363 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: if if for some reason he turns out to be 364 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: a bad actor and tries to do something nefarious, like, 365 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: don't assign that to bitcoin. That's not Bitcoin's fault. Um, 366 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: you know, if he if he does something bad, we 367 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: have to kind of look at that separately. So I 368 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: do want people to at least make that distinction that 369 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: is not this political tool. By the way, you're listening 370 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: to the Mark Moss Show, we're talking about bitcoin. If 371 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: you haven't figured it out already, we're talking about the 372 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies and this decentralized revolution. I'm in the studio with 373 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: Natalie Brunel. You can find her at Nott Brunel on Twitter. 374 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: Send her a message and say hi. When we come back, 375 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: I want to talk about UM some other game theory 376 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: that's going on between nations, UM, but maybe in the 377 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: opposite direction. So don't go away, we'll right back. All right, 378 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: Welcome back. You are listening to the Mark Mos Show, 379 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: and we're here talking about bitcoin, and we're talking about cryptocurrencies, 380 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: and we're talking about the decentralized revolution that's literally changing 381 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: the entire world. It's going to change the way humanity works. 382 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: We're witnessing it all happening right now. I know that 383 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: the world is scary, and I know there's a lot 384 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: of bad things going on, and trust me, I see it. 385 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: But there's also some amazing things happening, and history books 386 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: are going to be written about this time and place, 387 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: and that's what we're talking about right now. Hopefully you 388 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: can see how big it is. I'm in the studio 389 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: with my friend Natalie Brunell. You can find her at 390 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: nat Brunell. Of course, I'm one Mark Moss that's the 391 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: number one. Mark Moss. Before the break, we were talking 392 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: about how El Salvador is really ramping up the game 393 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: theory by opening up their country. They've removed all mandates 394 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: and restrictions on the health type stuff. UM, They've opened 395 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: it up for business. They're allowing investment in business to 396 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: come in. They're not charging them any sales tax or 397 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: property tax. I mean, they're basically just saying we're going 398 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: to outcompete everybody, come and get us, and just opening 399 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: everything up, which I love. On the other side of that, 400 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: which is pretty interesting to see play out in real time, 401 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: we have India and so India this week came out 402 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: and said that they want to bar crypto transactions but 403 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: still permit holding assets. So they said that they want 404 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: to UM the bar the use of cryptocurrencies for transactions 405 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: or making payments, but allow them to be held as 406 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: assets like gold, stock shares or bonds. And they said 407 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: that this approach would avoid implementing a complete ban because 408 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: people could still get access to it. UM and the 409 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: and the Prime Minister said that they were doing this 410 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: because they were concerned UM that unregulated crypto markets could 411 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: become avenues for money laundering and terror financing. Uh, they 412 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: haven't finalized the details of bill, but that's kind of 413 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: where it's at. So it's like one country is saying, hey, 414 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna let you entrepreneurs come build and do what 415 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: you want. On the other side is like, hey, we're 416 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: not going to allow you to do what you want 417 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: with your own money. I mean, it's a pretty stark 418 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: difference right now. Yeah, absolutely, And it seems like, you know, 419 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: India is probably taking sort of the majority standpoint of 420 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: seeing all of this as a threat and wanting to 421 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: maintain their prerogative on the power over money and and 422 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: how people transact and who controls the tender. So I 423 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: think it's really interesting there. It seems like they're trying 424 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: to find this middle ground where people can have it 425 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: as sort of an asset, the way they do with 426 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: gold and gosh, I mean India for for so long, 427 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: I think I think gold is one of I don't 428 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: I don't probably don't know if many countries that honor 429 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: and love gold more than India, I don't know, um, 430 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: but I do think it's really interesting that they're so 431 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: threatened by this type of technology as opposed to allow 432 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: allowing it to you know, potentially lift up communities. Obviously 433 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: much of India is so impoverished. This could be something 434 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: that's very, very helpful. But looks like the central bank 435 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: doesn't really understand the technology or doesn't want to embrace it. 436 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: Well I think, I mean, I think they do, And 437 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: so I actually think unlike China, which did a complete 438 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: outright ban, it almost looks like what India has done 439 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: here is gone. We'll shoot um. On one hand, we 440 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,719 Speaker 1: recognize that this tool could be used to get out 441 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: of our control, but we also recognize that um, if 442 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: we ban it, we don't stop the technology, We just 443 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: stop our people from participating or profit in it. So 444 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: what we'll do is we'll still allow them to profit 445 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: from it on a dollar basis, but they can't own it. 446 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: So it's almost like they do recognize the potential um 447 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: that they're afraid of, but also that they don't want 448 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: to ban their people, so they're at least letting them participate, 449 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: like you know, in the price action. I guess, yeah, 450 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: I mean it just it's interesting because I feel like 451 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: everything is still lumped together, right. Cryptocurrencies are not all 452 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: the same. Bitcoin is not crypto, and and I think 453 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: that when you don't make this type of UM, you 454 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: don't distinguish between them, and you don't maybe acknowledge the 455 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: differences of bitcoin between some of the other technology projects 456 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: that are out there and other coins. I think that 457 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: that that really says something. UM. And you know, I 458 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: just in in India. I think that there are a 459 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: lot of issues that could potentially be solved by bitcoin, 460 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: and hopefully they will allow users to have access to this, 461 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: to the blockchain. But you know, I think that we 462 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: have to wait and see. Yeah, I think you know, 463 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: it's like you know, as I said, right, the government 464 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: could ban their their people, their citizens from using it, 465 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: but they can't stop it. And so um, you know, 466 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: in the United States, obviously, goal, I mean, drugs have 467 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: been illegal for a long time, and drugs have to 468 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: be grown and cultivated and package and shipped and process 469 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: and smuggled and distribute all those things. They can't even 470 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: stop that. But also when they come out and tell 471 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: you that hey, you don't you shouldn't do drugs, um, 472 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't make you want to go do them because 473 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: you know they're not they're not not good for you, right, Um. 474 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: But when they tell you you don't have the right 475 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: to hold your wealth in a way that we can't 476 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: inflate and steal and regulate. It kind of makes you 477 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: want to do that, and so I think I think 478 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: it does more for the marketing than than not almost 479 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: kind of proves the case. Yeah, well, and they're really 480 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: stoking fears right by saying that this is linked to 481 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: money laundering and terrify financing, and I think all of 482 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: that makes people a little bit anxious and worried. And 483 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: I you know, I think that India is very modern 484 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: in many ways, but there's still very much a cast system, 485 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: and so I would be interested to know what it's 486 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 1: like to be in India and hearing about this from 487 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: the news sources that are out there, because I think 488 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: we're getting a different narrative and different headlines than maybe 489 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: people in India are themselves. I love that that headline. 490 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: Of course, it's always the worst fear, like oh it's 491 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: gonna fun terrorism and uh, you know, money laundering, And 492 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: it's like those fins and files came out whatever eight 493 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: nine months ago and it was like the banks have 494 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: laundered like two trillion dollars, like the banking system, Like 495 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: you're worried about like the little hundreds of millions of 496 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: dollars over here, like literally like two trillion dollars have 497 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: gone through the banks. I think that's more for shock 498 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: value than probably what they're really concerned about. Well, I 499 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: think it's amazing too that right now they're acknowledging that 500 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 1: this one trillion market cap asset is such a threat, right, 501 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: it could destabilize nations and just you know, not even 502 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: ten years ago, it was seven years ago, it was 503 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: just internet funny money, ponzi scheme scam. Now it can 504 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: suddenly bring down nations on a national security level. It's 505 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: just it's so interesting to see the evolution. I think 506 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: adoption is inevitable. I think these are just this is 507 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: there's volatility and the acceptance, just as there's volatility in 508 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: the price. And I think the next couple of years 509 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: will be crucial. And I personally think the pandemic did 510 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: a lot to help not only put a spotlight on 511 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: on bitcoin, but really show the value proposition. Right we 512 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: are now exponentially money printing all across the world. In 513 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: order to sort of, you know, put a band aid 514 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: over what what the pandemic exposed, I think we already 515 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: had problems before the pandemic. I think it exposed those 516 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: nerve endings and we need a fix and that fixes bitcoin. 517 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people saw that light 518 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: in the last year. Yeah, I did. I did a 519 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: video explaining what's known as the Mundol Fleming try limma. 520 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: So you have basically dilemmas, choose one of one or 521 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: the other try limmas. You have three and any nation 522 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: that they have three things, and so one is controlling 523 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: their interest rates, two is controlling the money money supply, 524 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: and third is controlling their capital inflows and outflows. And 525 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: so obviously if they bring interest rates to zero and 526 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: they inflate the money supply, then capital is not going 527 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: to want to come in, and most of the capital 528 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: is gonna want to leave. And so that's the that's 529 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: the try limit that they're stuck with. And I was 530 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: doing this in regards to when China band it, and 531 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: so China wants to maipulate the interest rates and their 532 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: money supply, but then capital wants to leave in the 533 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency is that lifeboats and then they ban it, right, 534 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: they take away that option. And so you know in 535 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: this day and age, which you know now with this 536 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: you know, all this green infrastructure spending, they want to 537 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: do a hundred fifty tillion dollars or whatever. Um, they're 538 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: going to have to just keep printing more money and 539 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: they can't raise interest rates, and so people are going 540 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: to want to leave um and they don't want to 541 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: do that. They want to seal uppy exits or takeaway 542 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: take away the lifeboats. Yeah. No, I mean it's crazy 543 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: to think that they are basically stuck between a rock 544 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: and a hard place because of the consequences of the 545 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: money printing and going off the gold standard over the 546 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: last several decades. And now literally it's either do what's 547 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: right that the painful medicine, hike interest rates taper and 548 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: allow this thing to crash, and boy would that be 549 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: a bad crash, or basically move into the direction of 550 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: more and more inflation, which just debases the dollars, steals 551 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: from the people in the middle, steals from the savers, 552 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: steals from the in come earners who aren't in assets. 553 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: It's it's really sad the position we're in, and it's 554 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: it's amazing to me that bitcoin kind of provides that 555 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: life raft, Like that's what's so, that's what's so inspiring 556 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, it's like like a drug addict. You know, 557 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: if you can keep giving them more drugs, it's eventually 558 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: going to kill them. But if you pull the drugs, 559 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: it's this horrible process that they have to go through 560 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: either way. I want to talk more about what you 561 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: said about the risk of bringing down a nation state, 562 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: and there's actually somebody, a prominent influential person came out 563 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: this week and and warned of that exactly happening. We'll 564 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: talk about that when we get back. You're listening to 565 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: the Mark mo Show. We're talking about bitcoin. Of course, 566 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: we're talking about cryptocurrencies in this entire decentralized revolution. I'm 567 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: in the studio with Natal Natalie Brunell, and we will 568 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: be right back. All right, welcome back. You are listening 569 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: to the Mark Moa Show and we're talking about bitcoin. 570 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 1: We're talking about cryptocurrencies and the decentralized revolution that is happening. 571 00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 1: I'm in the studio with Natalie Brunel. You can find 572 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: under at nat Brunell on Twitter. Of course I'm one 573 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: Mark Moss on Twitter. And we were talking about before 574 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: the break, we were talking about, of course bitcoin, but 575 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,719 Speaker 1: we're talking about how this game theory is playing out 576 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: in real time where you have El Salvador embracing it 577 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: and um creating this awesome environment for people to come 578 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: and build and invest and grow. And then you have 579 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: India on the other side, who's kind of punishing people 580 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: and taking away their ability to participate. And so we're 581 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: seeing those two things play out in real time. My 582 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: money's on nations like El Salvador. I think a free 583 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 1: markets always win. But another thing that happened this week 584 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: was Hillary Clinton. I don't even know why she's still 585 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: in the news anymore. Um. She came out and of 586 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: course she had to echo what we've already heard from 587 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: Janet Yelling from the Treasury and Christine Legarde from the 588 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: ECB and and basically, um, she said that it undermines cryptocurrencies. 589 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: Bitcoin undermines the financial system. It threatens the financial system. 590 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: And I was just thinking, like, you know, a lot 591 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: of people think that the dollar is backed by Some 592 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: people still think it's backed by gold, some people think 593 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: it's backed by the military. Um, we have, you know, 594 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of people that support the financial system, 595 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: the military, the all of that. Um, you know, the 596 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: swift banking system all the banks, all this and they're 597 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: worried about open source piece of code out competing them. 598 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: I mean, how ironic is that? Yeah? I mean again, 599 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: I think this is just an example of how Hillary 600 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: Clinton either hasn't done her homework or she's being completely 601 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: disingenuous on this technology. First of all, on the Democratic side, 602 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: this will empower your base that you want to be 603 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: able to afford their kids college education and afford to 604 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: have a house. I mean, I think it's just ridiculous 605 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: when she's how was it, how was it being how 606 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: is it being disingenuous? Because I mean, it will it 607 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: does threaten the financial system, don't Well, But I think that, 608 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: you know, I think that she's conflating cryptocurrencies again with bitcoin, 609 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: and if she does have knowledge about it, I don't 610 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: think she's being genuine about knowledge of how it can 611 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: empower people, of how it can be a tool for empowerment, 612 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: for wealth accumulation, for creating generational wealth. That's what I 613 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: sort of mean. It's like, if you really knew, if 614 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: you really understand this technology, you wouldn't be saying some 615 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: of this um And I'm one of those people that 616 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to see the collapse of the US dollar. 617 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: I want bitcoin, like Michael Sailor has said, to make 618 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: the US dollar potentially more powerful than ever. They can 619 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: ride on monetary rails right next to each other. We 620 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: don't have to be in a world where where all 621 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: of a sudden crashing, you know, the dollar completely, and 622 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: all of a sudden everyone is just transacting in bitcoin. 623 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: I mean, some people believe that will happen, but I 624 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I'm I am more apt to 625 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: believe what Michael Sailor thinks will happen, which is that 626 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: other foreign currencies collapse into the dollar, and the dollar 627 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: and bitcoin are very strong. The dollar remains the reserve 628 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: currency used for exchanges. But going back to kind of 629 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: you know what she said, It's like, these are the 630 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: people that created this problem. These are the people that 631 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: have created the bubbles, and when the economy wanted to contract, 632 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: they came in and expanded the money supply more and 633 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: made the problem worse and just kick the can down 634 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: the road out And now they're they're you know, attacking 635 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: the one thing that can potentially rectify some of what 636 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: they've caused. Yeah, I think, um, you know, whenever you 637 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: have new technology. It's it's what's called creative destruction. And 638 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: so the new way, the new creation is so much 639 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: better that it destroys the old way. So digital cameras 640 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: destroyed film cameras. Um, it's nothing against film cameras. It's 641 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: just digital cameras are just better. And that's just is 642 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: what it is. And so, UM, I think when Christine 643 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: Legarde or or Hillary Clinton says that Christine Leguard said 644 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: that that innovation is a threat to financial stability, well, 645 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: it's a threat to their financial monopoly. Um, it's a 646 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: it's a threat to them. They're they're they're monopoly being stable. 647 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: But that's the whole point, right, it's a better system 648 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: and so we can move to it. So, I mean, 649 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: I do agree with Christine Leguard and Hillary it's a 650 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: threat to the financial system that they have their grip around. Um. 651 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: But not um, not in an adversarial way. I don't 652 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: like to think of bitcoin as an attack. Um. Bitcoin 653 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: is just an opt out. It's a it's a way 654 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: that I can decide to park my wealth over here. UM. 655 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: But it's just it's just it's it's an open source 656 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: piece of code, that's all it is. It can fit 657 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: on a thumb drive and uh and and it's gonna 658 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: it can it can threaten the entire financial establishment. Uh 659 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: and only because it's better, Only because it gives us 660 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: a better option, I think to Michael Saylor's point, you know, 661 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: he's got a lot of eyes on him and board members, 662 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: I don't. I believe in I believe that we should 663 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: have a separation of money and state, and the government 664 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: should not be able to print money at will. I 665 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: think I think that should happen. Uh. And I'm I'm 666 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: I'm okay saying that, um, and not not that it 667 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: should be attacked. The collapse of the financials so that 668 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: we have today is going to be difficult for a 669 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: lot of people, and I don't I don't wish that 670 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: on anybody. UM. I want to offload as many people 671 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: into the life rafts as we possibly can, which is 672 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: which is why we're doing it, I know. I mean 673 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: sometimes I compare this to Noah's ark. I'm religious, so 674 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: that's why it resonates with me. But it's like, you know, 675 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: we're trying to get as many people on this ship 676 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: because the system is collapsing on its own. I mean, 677 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: if if you're looking at what it will cost to 678 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: live and what the dollar will be worth in the 679 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: next ten twenty years. It's a pretty scary picture, I don't. 680 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you can try to, you know, go ahead 681 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: and play the stock market, but who knows what will happen. 682 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure there will be a pop at some point. 683 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: I just think that bitcoin is that that arc that 684 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: can usher us into this new digital era of saving 685 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: and maybe kind of recalibrating the global economy on sound money. 686 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: I mean, can you even envision a future and none 687 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: of us have really lived in it right where interest 688 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: rates are based on price signals, supply and demand, as 689 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: opposed to manipulated and artificially lowered so that you you, 690 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, you misappropriate capital. I would love to see 691 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: a world like that, Like what would it look like, 692 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: what it would wealth distribution be more equal? I know 693 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: that the world is not going to be, you know, 694 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: perfect and equal, but I don't want it to be. 695 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to be this big blob of humanity 696 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: that's all the same. I wanted to be based on 697 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: competition and some there will be winners and there will 698 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: be losers, but I think everyone should have fair access 699 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: in a free market to kind of prove themselves through 700 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: their goods and services. And I don't know what that 701 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: world looks like right now because the government has just 702 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: ballooned bigger and bigger, bigger and intervened more and they just, um, 703 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: they say that it's necessary, right, But I I see 704 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: it as the problem masquerading as the solution. Yeah, well, 705 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: I mean we we can't we can't imagine and when 706 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 1: we haven't seen it. But I think a little glimpse 707 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: of that is that, um, we get paid for the 708 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: value that we provide. So an entrepreneur, business person, um, 709 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: isn't greedy. Um, they make money by solving your problem 710 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: or your need. That's how they make money, so by 711 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: providing value to the world. But we're in a situation 712 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: today where people are afraid to go create massive value 713 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: for people because the government's going to steal it all. 714 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: And the government doesn't provide any value because they just 715 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: steal all the wealth. And so really there's not like 716 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: going on. Plus, the field money system has created this 717 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: like generation gamble where everyone's trading cryptocurrencies and options trading, 718 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: and that's not providing any value to anybody anyway. It's 719 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: like a net drain. So what if we switched that 720 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: to where people were incentivized to build value and the 721 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: government was also incentivized to provide value to you in 722 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: exchange for your tax revenue. And now instead of nobody 723 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: providing value, the whole world was working together. I mean, 724 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: amazing things could happen. I know, it's it's amazing to 725 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: think about something like that, Like, that's the kind of 726 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: future I want to envision for my kids, as opposed 727 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: to one where we're heading in the direction of just 728 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: more and more government dependency and the government basically saying 729 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: that they're necessary and all these components. Well, no, I 730 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: think I think the free the free market will dictate 731 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: what's best for people, and I would love to live 732 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: in that world. Market. Let's make that happen. Well, I 733 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: think I think we are, you know, uh, we're we're 734 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: obviously trying to usshure that in, you know, as best 735 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: as we can. I think, you know, going back to 736 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: to Noah's Ark, right, I mean, he was building that 737 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: arc for uh was it forty years or whatever. He 738 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: was building the arc and people thought he was just crazy. 739 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, we've been talking about bitcoin for 740 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: years and years and years and people think we're crazy. 741 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: But the rain clouds are starting to form, like people 742 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: are starting to see, like this rain is coming down. 743 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: At a previous segment, I was talking about how the 744 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: FED came out with this article saying that turkey has 745 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: gotten too expensive, you should have to fur key instead. 746 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: And when people are seeing that they can't afford their 747 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: food anymore, um, they're going to realize they need to 748 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: get get into the arc, or at least at least 749 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: get into into the lifeboat. You know. Well, and this 750 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,720 Speaker 1: is where I get angry at my former industry, because 751 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: I saw an NBC report yesterday saying that you know, 752 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 1: here's one way to battle inflation. Just don't buy a 753 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: turkey or less people will come over, I mean, or 754 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: or you know, get the tofur so soybeans. I mean, 755 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: I think it would be it's incumbent upon them to 756 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: actually educate the public on what's causing the inflation and 757 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: be real with people and stop, you know, just encouraging 758 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: the kind of food that feat subsidies are basically causing 759 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: us to go to, which are less nutrition us and 760 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: our diets are poor because of it. Yeah, well that's 761 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 1: what you and I are here for to help educate people. 762 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mark moss Show. We're talking about bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, 763 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,399 Speaker 1: the decentralized revolution, among with Natalie Brunelle. You can find 764 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: her on Twitter at nat brunel um at one Mark 765 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: Moss Um And that's it. Thanks for listening.