1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from house stuff 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:14,319 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And yet again, this topic of 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: women's colleges is coming from a listeners suggestion, So listeners 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: proof positive that we do take your suggestion series and 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: we steal them and we use them for well for good, yes, yeah, 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: for podcasting. But women's colleges was such a great topic 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: because it's sort of kind of college ish season. Yeah, 9 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: the kids are getting ready to move out of their 10 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: parentals home schools out for summer, and thus, so let's 11 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: stop this podcast. It can't get any better. It cannot. 12 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: But what can get better is the information that we're 13 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: going to give you about the history of women's colleges 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: and the kind of precarious position that they're in these days. 15 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: But first, let's offer a little overview of what exactly 16 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: is a woman's college, and the snarky answer to that 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: is it's the college where women go to learn. Well 18 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: that and according to the Department of Education, to get 19 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: specific about things, it is an institution where there is 20 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: an institutional mission to serve the needs of women in 21 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: higher education as well as a predominantly female student body. 22 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: So you know, in case you wanted to get real granular, 23 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: there it is. And it seems like, uh, if you 24 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: think that a minority of women attend women's colleges, you 25 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: would be so right. However, the proportion was a lot 26 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: higher about a century ago. Because I mean, we don't 27 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: need to point this out to you intelligent listeners. Women 28 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: weren't so much welcome at men's colleges because they were 29 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: just for men, just for men. Like the hair die exactly, 30 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: everybody went around dyeing their hair and their beards. Um. 31 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: So the fact that women did not have anywhere to 32 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: pursue any sort of quality education outside of the home 33 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: was a major problem, as you can imagine, and so 34 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: institutions did start springing up prior to the Civil War, 35 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: and these were seminaries. These weren't colleges as we think 36 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: of them today, but they were private secondary schools for 37 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: young women during the early nineteenth century, and they really 38 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: were the beginning of an interest in furthering educational opportunities 39 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: for women. And these seminaries that we're talking about did 40 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: not serve the traditional purpose we might think of as 41 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: training someone for religious work, but Rather, these women's seminaries 42 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: often trained women to be teachers, and then as full 43 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: fledged women's colleges, discreet from seminaries began training women in 44 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: traditionally alee disciplines and they were the only institutions where 45 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: women could study things like science, math, law, and philosophy. 46 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: And that history is carried forward to today where you 47 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: see that a lot of students at women's colleges are 48 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: more likely to study STEM courses the science, tech, engineering, 49 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: and math than they are at larger or co ed institutions. Right. 50 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: And during this time before the Civil War, there were 51 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: only three private colleges that admitted women, and they were 52 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: all in Ohio, Antioch, Oberlin, and Hillsdale. Actually my father 53 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: went to Hillsdale, but at that point it was in Michigan. 54 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: Um only two public universities at this time admitted women. 55 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: Those were the University of Iowa and the University of 56 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: Desert which is now the University of Utah. But among 57 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: all of these goings on, criticism of seminaries was growing 58 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: because basically a lot of critics out there were saying, 59 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: it's just not suffice. These institutions are not sufficient to 60 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: teach our women because all it's teaching them is how 61 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: to be proper and uh, you know, have great posture 62 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: and learn to be teachers. They need to be able 63 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: to learn more things better. Yeah, And during this time, 64 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: famed educator Catherine E. Beecher was arguing against seminaries in 65 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: a way because she's basically saying that women's colleges and 66 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: women's higher education needed more resources because at the time 67 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: that the seminaries weren't offering sufficient or permanent endowments for 68 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: buildings and libraries, and that once you got things like 69 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: boards of trustees established, you could secure better teachers and 70 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: therefore offer a higher level of instruction. Right. And this 71 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: is also this is part of the women's rights movement, 72 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: where women viewed quality education as a way to gain equality. 73 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: You know, we don't want something that's lesser than we 74 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: want something that's equal to what men have to get 75 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: the same kind of quality education and then maybe we 76 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: can have a step up in society. Now, in the 77 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: late nineteenth century early twentieth century, what was leading to 78 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: an increased demand for higher education for women, because even 79 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: just the fact that women might be thinking about getting 80 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: additional school learning was a bit of a revelation um 81 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: and it had to do a lot with things like 82 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: increases in labor saving devices at the home, so it 83 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: frees up more time. There was a shortage of teachers 84 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: in addition, due to the growth of common schools um 85 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: and that growth also instilled in girls a desire to learn. 86 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: And on top of that you have a proliferation of 87 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: books for women, periodicals for women. There's more philanthropy directed 88 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: towards women's education and some limited employment opportunities for women 89 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 1: thanks to he and that's thanks and quotes to things 90 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: like the Civil War man drain and a desire to 91 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: educate future mothers who would in turn raise educated children. 92 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: This was around the time time of the Republican framework 93 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: of motherhood, where good mothers raised their children to be 94 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: good citizens, and there was an educational component to that. Right, 95 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: So it's okay and it's safe for women to be 96 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: educated as long as it's being applied to raising good 97 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: future citizens exactly. Well. In the Northeast, as far as 98 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: women's colleges go, that's the home to a lot of independent, 99 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: nonprofit schools geared toward women who wanted to study the 100 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: liberal arts. In the South, the small women's schools were 101 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: mostly affiliated with various Protestant churches, such as UM Agnes 102 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: Scott College here in Decatur, Georgia, UM right next door 103 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: to us in Atlanta, which was started by the Presbyterians, 104 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: which I just learned. Um. These educational opportunities, however, were 105 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: limited to white students, so institutions for blacks were started 106 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: after the Civil War, such as Bennett, which actually didn't 107 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: become a women's college until nine and Spellmen, which are 108 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: the only black women's colleges today. And speaking of the 109 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: fact that Agnes Scott, for instance, was started by the 110 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: Presbyterian Church, Catholic institutions were also growing along with the 111 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: Catholic population in the US, and there were movements there 112 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: to establish public women's colleges. So let's get into some first. 113 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: Since we are in Atlanta, Caroline, I am proud to 114 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: report that the very first school in the United States 115 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: chartered in eighteen thirty six to grant women quote all 116 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: such honors, degrees, and licenses that are usually conferred in 117 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: colleges and universities to men, was the Georgia Female College, 118 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: which is now known as Wesleyan, which is in make 119 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: and Georgia, and that is associated obviously with the Methodist Church. 120 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: And it turns out that Wesleyan is the oldest women's 121 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: college that has neither closed nor become co ed. And 122 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: we'll get into that a little bit later when we're 123 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: talking about the modern problems that a lot of women's 124 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: colleges face and how they cope with it. So that's 125 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: pretty impressive that Wesleyan has stayed open this entire time 126 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: and just educated women. But we also have Mary Sharp 127 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: College in Tennessee, which in eighteen fifty one was the 128 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: first U. S women's college to require both Latin and 129 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: Greek in a four year course and give an associate 130 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: baccalaureate degree comparable to those awarded by men's colleges. Unfortunately, 131 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: Mary Sharp closed in eighteen ninety six. Now, one of 132 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: the challenges with establishing these early women's colleges was what 133 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: the educator Katherine E. Beecher was talking about in terms 134 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: of wanting to make sure that the education that women 135 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: were getting at women's colleges or seminaries were equivalent to 136 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: what men were leaving college with. And Elmira College in 137 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: New York, which was founded in eighteen fifty five, is 138 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: cited as the first women's college in the United States 139 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: that succeeded in doing just that of offering a degree 140 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: comparable with men's colleges. Yeah, and that school actually went 141 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: co ed in nineteen sixty nine. Also in New York, 142 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: we have Vassar College, which I'm sure you've heard of 143 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: Kristen uh in eighteen sixty five. It was the first 144 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: to have an adequate endowment and attain comparable standards to 145 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: those of men's colleges, which again is what Beacher was 146 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: talking about. You know, we have to give these schools 147 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: the same support that men's colleges do, and and that 148 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: adequate endowment is a large part of why Vassar has 149 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: been so successful. But of course, while these women's colleges 150 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: educational offerings were becoming more robust and more women were 151 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: interested in higher education and pursuing college degrees, not everybody 152 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: was happy about that. In the late eighteen hundreds, for instance, 153 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 1: may I quote Harvard President Charles W. Elliott, who, in 154 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: an eighteen speech really summed up people's feelings about women 155 00:09:55,559 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: and their potential for learning at the time, quote, women's 156 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 1: colleges should concentrate on an education that will not injure 157 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: women's bodily powers and functions, because Caroline, when we think, 158 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: it heats up our brain, and that heat could travel 159 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: down to our reproductive organs and spoil all of the ovaries. 160 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: Now we could get a brain fever in our eggs. Yeah, 161 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: and then we might not be able to become mothers 162 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: and raise the kids. And Heavens to Betsy if in 163 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: eight you were not only one of those women who 164 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,719 Speaker 1: was getting one of those brain fever degrees, but you're 165 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: also riding a bicycle to and from class with all 166 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: that friction. Lots of dangers for women, so many, I mean, 167 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: we are so fragile. But M Carrie Thomas, who was 168 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: the highly educated president of bren Mar, and I know 169 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: that could sound patronizing out of context, but I mean 170 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: this woman traveled to Europe to be able to get 171 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: her advanced to degrees like she was that committed to education. 172 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: Uh So, mcry Thomas, the present then of brent Mar, said, 173 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: you may say you do not think God intended a 174 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: woman to be a bridge builder. You have, of course 175 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: right to this prejudice, but you will probably not be 176 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: able to impose it on women who wish to build bridges. 177 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Put the whole thing 178 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: on a T shirt. I'll wear it. And part of 179 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: this fear, this culture that Charles W. Eliott, the Harvard president, 180 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: existed in, was not just that you know, we would 181 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: run off to college and get brain fevers by learning 182 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: too much, but that we would just decide that we 183 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: didn't want to get married. Oh my god, what would happen? Then? 184 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: You know, it could affect the size of families, it 185 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: could affect marriages, and a big fear was that a 186 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: decline in marriage would then lead to race suicide, a 187 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: coin a term coined by Teddy Roosevelt. But miraculously, as 188 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: we well know, now, women going to college has actually, 189 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: you know, coincided with massive population expansion. Good for us women. Indeed, 190 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: so we're doing just fine. Um. But now that we 191 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: have the history, the early history of women's college is established, 192 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: let's zero in on perhaps the best known cluster of 193 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: women's colleges, known as the Seven Sisters, and this is 194 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: essentially the women's college answer to men's Ivy League schools. 195 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: And the Seven Sisters consist of Barnard Smith, Mount Holyoke, Vassar, 196 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: Brent Mar, Wellesley and Radcliffe and Whoop whoop to all 197 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: of our alumni listeners out there, well done. Yeah, these 198 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,599 Speaker 1: are incredible schools. Several of them were UM as was 199 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: common at the time. We're grown out of men's colleges 200 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: like Radcliffe was basically Harvard's answer to a women's school. UM. 201 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: These schools had very high admission standards and were able 202 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,599 Speaker 1: to recruit and retain a high percentage of women faculty. 203 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: But there was quite a significant downside and that these 204 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: schools did not take well to racial integration. Yeah. Linda Perkins, 205 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 1: who was a researcher at Hunter College, looked into racial 206 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: integration in the Seven Sisters women's colleges, and she found 207 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: that there were a lot of barriers for entry and 208 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: it wasn't just a thing of the very early history 209 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: some colleges. Some of the Seven Sisters colleges didn't actively 210 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: recruit black women until the nineteen sixties when the civil 211 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: rights movement was in full swing. And she cites a W. E. B. 212 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: Duvois study from nineteen hundred in which he found that 213 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: it was easier for a black man to gain entrance 214 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: into a white men's college than for a black woman 215 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 1: to enter a white women's college. Right and to give 216 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: you some perspective. In eighteen thirty three, Oberlin began admitting 217 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: women and black students. From eighteen thirty three to nineteen ten, 218 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: about four hundred black women graduated from Oberlin. In contrast, 219 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: for the hundred year period between eighteen sixty in the 220 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: early nineteen sixties, only about five hundred black women graduated 221 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: from all seven Sisters colleges, and Perkins points out that 222 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: some were better than others in terms of being more 223 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: accepting of black students, but Vassar Barnard and Brent Maher 224 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: y'all you were the worst. Those were the most resistant 225 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: she found to admitting black women, and even when black 226 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: students were admitted to these women's colleges, things like separate 227 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: housing was always an issue. They were always segregated, and 228 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen, for instance, Radcliffe president le Baron Russell 229 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: Briggs tried to help black student Mary Gibson with financial aid, 230 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: but in his donor outreach he repeatedly stressed that at 231 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: Mary Gibson didn't look black. In fact, her skin tone 232 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: was almost white, and she could even be taken for Spanish. 233 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: So hello, racism still existing even at these upper echelons 234 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: of higher education for women. Right. But despite all of this, 235 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: despite all of the junk that they had to face 236 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: when they got to these schools, the Seven Sisters grads 237 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: were among the earliest black women scientists, lawyers, and doctors. 238 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: So they still went after that education, and they still 239 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: went out into the world and made a difference despite 240 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: the resistance they faced, like you said, even at these schools. 241 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: And Caroline, speaking of black women women's colleges and the 242 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: fact that we are in Atlanta, I would like to 243 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: point out that Atlanta is also home to Spellman College 244 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: and historically Black College and University, which is women only 245 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: in one of the only institutions like that in the US. Indeed, 246 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: indeed they do so. As we progress through time, social 247 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: changes start to occur and the women's colleges try to 248 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: roll with the punches. So between nineteen and nineteen fifty 249 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: they really start to diversify and expand. Several four year 250 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: colleges were founded, as were two year women's junior colleges 251 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: with vocational missions, so more women were starting to enter 252 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: the college universe. But as time went on and more 253 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: colleges open their doors to women, or more more co 254 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: ed schools were founded, yes, more women might have been 255 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: choosing to go to college, but more we're also choosing 256 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: to go co ed in general. So the good news 257 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: it is that from nineteen o nine to the mid 258 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, women's enrollment in higher education jumps from one 259 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: thousand to more than a million. Hooray women going off 260 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: to pursue college and universities. But it's not so great 261 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: news for women's colleges because as early as nineteen twenty, 262 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,239 Speaker 1: more than four fifths of college ledge women were attending 263 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: coed schools, and then by the mid nineteen fifties, nine 264 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: tenths of college women were in co ed schools. Yeah, 265 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: so those numbers are dropping for women's colleges, and so 266 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: a lot of them are forced to scramble, and things 267 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: only get worse for women's colleges. Well, except for though 268 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties and seventies, when women's colleges do 269 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: could have a moment, they do, and there were a 270 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: lot of things that contributed to that. It wasn't just 271 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: uh second wave feminism, although that was a part of it. 272 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: Because of second wave feminism, there was a rebound in 273 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: students support for women's only colleges the support for mergers 274 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: and co education seemed to wane amid this time, and 275 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: this was also helped along by the buoyant economy of 276 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: the sixties. For instance, Wells College had its highest ever 277 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: enrollment from nineteen sixty six to nineteen seventy two, and 278 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: that school only recently became co ed. Actually, and similar 279 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: things though, are going on at all male institutions that 280 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: in the nineties, sixties and seventies are starting to open 281 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: their doors to women. Today. I believe they're only two 282 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: all men's colleges left in the United States, Hampton, Sydney 283 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: and one out West which whose name I do not 284 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: remember at the moment. But there are far fewer all 285 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 1: male colleges compared to women's colleges. Oh more house, What 286 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: am I talking about? More houses all men out west 287 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: in Atlanta? In West Atlanta, there is more house where 288 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: President Barack Obama visited last Sunday and shut down traffic. Barry, 289 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: I'd like a heads up next time. I'm just saying, Okay, 290 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: So during this time, a lot of women's colleges, like 291 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: I said, are are trying to roll with the punches 292 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: here as as demographic shift, as numbers increase and decrease 293 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: and fluctuate, so a lot of them end up becoming 294 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: co ed, merging with all male or co ed schools 295 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: or csing due to that declining enrollment and financial problems 296 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: related to competition. The things that helped a lot of 297 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: the women's colleges survived that did survive this period was 298 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: reaffirming their missions, so their mission where they are dedicated 299 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: to providing a quality education for women, um enhancing their 300 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: connections with other institutions, adding new programs to appeal to 301 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: non traditional students such as night and weekend programs. But 302 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: also that thing we mentioned earlier of having generous endowments 303 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: and loyal alumni who will support the mission. And it's 304 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: helpful too that a lot of times women's colleges leave 305 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: a legacy of really successful alumni who are very loyal 306 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: to their alma maters and will support that. But nevertheless, 307 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: the number of women's colleges has dropped drastically. They're around 308 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: three hundred of them in the United States in nineteen 309 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: sixty and a drop to around eighty and now in 310 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: two thousand and thirteen, there are fewer than fifty women's 311 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: colleges left and as of two thousand and ten, the 312 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: total enrollment across all of those institutions was only eighty 313 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: six thousand. Yeah, small numbers, but those schools are still 314 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: serving an incredibly important mission. According to a lot of 315 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: people on the Internet, where I get all of my information, 316 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: it's all Wikipedia. You can just you can check it's 317 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: not actually wikipede. No, don't worry. Um. So, one of 318 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: those people who uh stresses the importance of women's colleges 319 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: is education consultant David Strauss, who talked to Boston's NPR 320 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 1: station w bu R in April of this year. He 321 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 1: pointed out that, you know, women's colleges that don't have 322 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: those large endowments and don't draw students who can pay 323 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: full tuition do have a more difficult time remaining competitive, 324 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: but they maintain a critical function for a lot of women, 325 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: which he says, maybe they don't even realize when they're young. 326 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: He says, women tend to outperform men academically, but there 327 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: are all kinds of such idle pressures against it. These 328 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: institutions represent a solution to that, but it's very difficult 329 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: for an eighteen year old to see it. When young 330 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: women matriculate at and go through and experience at a 331 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: women's college. He says, most of them become converts. And 332 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: there does seem to be an affect that women's colleges 333 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: that all female environment has on the student body. There 334 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: was a paper that I found in New Directions for 335 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: Higher Education that came out in two thousand and ten 336 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: about quote tough questions facing women's colleges, and the author, 337 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: Sarah Kratzok, points out that a lot of studies have 338 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: highlighted really positive benefits of women's colleges, such as the 339 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: student body tends to have higher self esteem. Women tend 340 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: to say that they feel more supported on campus, that 341 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: they made greater gains in college, and that again they 342 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: might be more open to pursuing traditionally male dominated courses 343 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: or degrees such as those science and technology fields. Right, 344 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: And that's something that Susan Susan Lennon excuse me, of 345 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: the Women's College Coalition pointed out in USA Today in 346 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: August of twelve that women are underrepresented in leadership programs 347 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: and STEM fields. And so while women's colleges and going 348 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: to a women's college is not necessarily the answer to 349 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: fixing all of our gender gap problems. It certainly plays 350 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: a part. And Rachel Hennessy, who went to Women's College 351 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: and wrote a column for Forbes in February of this year, 352 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: so that choosing to attend such a college is the 353 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: opposite of comfortable. That was her answer to people who 354 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: are saying, Oh, you're just trying to hide out from 355 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: men and go where your pajamas to class all day, 356 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: she said, because these Women's college and the dynamics, the 357 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: social dynamics at them really challenge students to step outside 358 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: of gender norms and engage in new leadership roles. The 359 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: whole thing being well, if you don't have people making 360 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: you feel and not that there aren't, you know, difficult 361 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: social dynamics out of Women's college, but if you don't 362 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: have people making you feel like you just need to 363 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: be the quiet, proper woman, then maybe you will feel 364 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: more of a drive to step up and run for 365 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: student government and start new clubs, you know, and on 366 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: and on and on. And as someone who attended a 367 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: co educational university, I can personally attest to the fact 368 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: that plenty of female students still wear pajamas to class. Yeah, 369 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: I did well, And also I mean, the whole preparation 370 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: for leadership outside of college is something that is often 371 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: touted as one of the major benefits to going to 372 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: a women's college. Elizabeth Peiffer, who was a scripts college student, 373 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: wrote in the Huffington Post that this sense of leadership 374 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: is very real at women's colleges, and she signed a 375 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: statistic that graduates of women's colleges comprise more than of 376 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: women in Congress and represent thirty percent of the Business 377 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 1: Week list of Rising Women in Corporate America. Right, and 378 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: given the fact that such a small percent of the 379 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: female population in the US goes to women's colleges, that's 380 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: a pretty big deal. Yeah. So, at the same time, 381 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: these same columnists who went to women's colleges and definitely 382 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: support women's colleges acknowledge that the women's college environment might 383 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: not be right for everybody. There really does seem to 384 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: be something to that. And there was a March two thousand, 385 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: eighth survey of one thousand women's college alumni and their 386 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: female peers from liberal arts colleges or public flagship institutions, 387 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: and in several key areas, the survey found that the 388 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: alumni from women's colleges performed higher, including in the proportion 389 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 1: of entrepreneurs produced and the leadership training perceived. Yeah, and 390 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: they were also significantly more likely to have graduate degrees, 391 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: and a lot more women's college grads than co ed 392 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: college grads reported that they learned to solve problems, relate 393 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: to people of different background, and think analytically. And so 394 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: when you're talking about women entering leadership roles, I mean, 395 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,719 Speaker 1: how important is that? And the fact that these women 396 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: feel way more prepared to take on those responsibilities is 397 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: pretty significant. And all of us research is making me 398 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: a tad bit regretful that I didn't go to Barnard 399 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: because then I could have met Lana done and maybe 400 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: I could be her, maybe you could get naked on 401 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: her show. Never mind. But for girls at high school, 402 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: women's colleges are usually off the radar because I think 403 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: that they do have some negative stereotypes associated with them, 404 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: that only weird girls want to go to women's colleges. 405 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: And if you go to women's colleges, that means that 406 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: you don't like men, And what's your problem if you 407 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: don't want men around, which a lot of times with 408 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: these especially like Seven Sisters schools, you're in a consortium 409 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: system where you can go to class at other institutions 410 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: if you want to um. But only three percent of 411 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: high school girls these days would even consider a women's 412 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: college do to fear of social judgment, which I think 413 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: is too bad. I mean, just because not saying that 414 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: everyone should go to a women's college. You and I 415 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,959 Speaker 1: didn't go to women's colleges, and we're totally fine for 416 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: the most part. But fear of social judgment is an 417 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: awfully disappointing reason for, uh well, to make a major 418 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: life decision exactly. I mean, you're letting I understand being 419 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: a teenager is so hard. I know, I know it is, 420 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: but gosh, don't let your friends make you feel stupid 421 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: for wanting to go to an all girls school, women's college, 422 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: women women's college. Now, some people who are listening to 423 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: us say, well, women's college isn't for everybody. Might be saying, well, no, duck, 424 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: it's a women's college. Obviously it's off limits to fifty 425 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: some of the population with X Y chromosomes, right, But 426 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: this issue of gender is something that has come up 427 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: more recently in women's colleges in terms of who they're 428 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: going to admit because women's colleges are obviously facing some 429 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: pretty tough economic times, dwindling numbers, and now an issue 430 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: of what about trans students because Smith College attracted some 431 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: mighty negative attention when a trans applicant was automatically turned 432 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: down because she was born biologically male. Yeah, she was 433 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: forced to check the mailbox on her fasciform essentially because 434 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: her state does not recognize you being a different gender 435 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: if you haven't had gender reassignment surgery. Right, and reading 436 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: through this the student is Calliope Wong and reading through 437 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: all of the paperwork trail from the fafts A form 438 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: that you have to fill out for it's a financial 439 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: student aid form, and then the and the how they 440 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: treat gender, and then how Smith College treats gender. I mean, 441 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: it was it kind of made me cross syde going 442 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: through it. But Calliope's kind of conclusion that she wrote 443 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: about was like, Okay, yes, I had to check mail 444 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 1: on my fafts A form, Like yes, there are all 445 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: these rules and regulations, but it boils down to the 446 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,719 Speaker 1: fact that Smith made a judgment call and decided not 447 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: to admit me. And so after this whole hullabaloo um 448 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: in May of this year, Smith actually announced that it 449 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: would form a committee to address issues pertaining to transgender students, 450 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: and that committee is to meet in September. And on 451 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: the heels of all of us that was going on, 452 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: a trans woman was accepted into the class of at 453 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: the All Women's Simmons College. And there has been some 454 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: academic research as well on this issue of trans students 455 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: who might want to go to women's colleges that we 456 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: found in the William and Mary Journal of Women in 457 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: the Law from two thousand eleven, and the paper ultimately 458 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: advocated for looser definitions of quote women and all women's college. Yeah, 459 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: because they ask can someone who's anatomically male yet identifies 460 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,239 Speaker 1: and presents as a woman be admitted to in all 461 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: women's college. It's this big question that I think more 462 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: and more universities are going to have to deal with, 463 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: not not just women's colleges, but I think trans issues 464 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: and trans rights are going to be such a huge issue, 465 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: right because one thing that was brought up, and I 466 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: think it might have been in Calliope Wong's case, was 467 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: just the example of bathrooms at Smith College. They have 468 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: the women's designated signs and then they have something called 469 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: flip signs, where if you have a male guest, he 470 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: can flip the sign over to indicate that there's a 471 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: brow in the shower or whatever. And um, and and 472 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: then it's like the question of like, well, if if 473 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: you're trans then and you haven't had gender reassignment surgery, 474 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,719 Speaker 1: then what do you do? And it ties into our 475 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: episode that we did a while ago on restrooms and 476 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: all the politics that you don't think about when it 477 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: comes to which bathroom you walk in. Um. So I 478 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: have a feeling though, that Smith will ultimately open its 479 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: doors to trans students as they should. Well yeah, I 480 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: mean if if the way has been paved by schools 481 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: like Simmons, then I would think it's only a matter 482 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: of time, right, because a lot of times two women's 483 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: colleges have traditionally been seen as more liberal enclaves, you know. 484 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: I mean, they were pioneers for gender equality and pre 485 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: Civil War era. So it would be sad to see, 486 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: especially a college like Smith that, in the days of 487 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: what could be the twilight of women's colleges, taking a 488 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: negative stance towards something like admitting trans students. I think 489 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: would be a grip I've miss step yeah, and perhaps 490 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: I'm about to go into women's college consulting. I don't know. 491 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: There you go for a fee. But reading about women's 492 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: colleges did make me reflect on how my college experience 493 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: might have been different if I had gone to one. 494 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the setting would have probably been much smaller. 495 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: Went to a large public university, and so just by 496 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: virtue of going to a smaller school, it would have 497 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: been a different experience. And I didn't want to go 498 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: to a tiny school because I went to a pretty 499 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: small high school. But especially hearing like thinking about like, oh, well, 500 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: maybe you know, without other without guys around, perhaps I 501 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: would have gotten involved in student government or I don't know, 502 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: there was one. In one of these articles we read, 503 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: there was a an alumna of Spellman, and she said, 504 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: you know, she transferred from a large co ed university 505 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: and she kind of expected to come to this utopia 506 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: and like all of these women, you know, we're braiding 507 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: each other's hair, and we're going to join every club, 508 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: and we're going to become the most highly educated women 509 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: in the world. And she got there, she's like, oh, well, 510 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: women are people, and so there's some highly motivated women 511 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: there's some flackers, there's you know, some like you know, 512 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: leaders and followers, just like there are at any school. 513 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: Women are people. I know, it is a radical, radical idea, 514 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: but I do think that's how we get attached to 515 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: these kinds of stereotypes about it, where it's like, oh, 516 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: if you want to go to a women's college, it's 517 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: because you are a socially awkward lesbian who only wants 518 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: to be around a small group of women. That's it, 519 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: you know. And if you are a socially awkward lesbian, 520 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: that's completely fine. But I'm just saying that it's you know, 521 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: that can attract like these fears of social judgment right 522 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: for making that choice. Yeah, I definitely. I mean I 523 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: wondered that too about my own college experience. I you know, 524 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: in transferring from the University of South Carolina to the 525 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: University of Georgia, I had to spend a semester at 526 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: a really tiny keen it Tanny religious school in in 527 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: North Georgia on my way on my way to Athens, 528 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: and I was like, gosh, if this is what small 529 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: school life is like, so I would definitely I'm definitely 530 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: the larger university person. Well, you know, what we need now. 531 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: We need listeners who went to women's colleges to let 532 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: us know what it was like. That's right, I really, 533 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure that we have some WC alumni out there. 534 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: So we are soliciting your uh, your thoughts or faculty 535 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: at women's colleges, male, female, whomever we wanna. We want 536 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: to hear what's going on, and especially if you are 537 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: an administrator at a women's college, let us know how 538 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: things are going because the whole shift from all women's 539 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: colleges to co ed has sparked a number of uh 540 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: protests on some women's college campuses, so they'd rather be 541 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: dead than co ed and other fund slogans, so all 542 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: of those things. Let us know all of the things 543 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: about women's colleges. Mom Stuff discovery dot com is where 544 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: you can send your letters, or you can hit us 545 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 1: up on Facebook or just tweet us. We're a mom's 546 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: Stuff podcast. And before we get to a couple of 547 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: letters that you've written us, let's take a quick break 548 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: and then we'll come right back. And now back to 549 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: our letters. Well, we've got a couple of letters here. 550 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: In response to our episode on filial Piety. The episode 551 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,800 Speaker 1: title was something along the lines of our Chinese children 552 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: more loyal to their parents, and these letters were interesting 553 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: because it offered a perspective on filial piety in a 554 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: different culture. So this is coming from a listener who 555 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: would prefer to remain anonymous, who writes, I was listening 556 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: to the filial Piety podcast that brought up some powerful emotions. 557 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: My parents or from Nigeria, and the whole filial piety 558 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: seems like an Asia specific thing to Americans. But I 559 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: grew up in a household that had strong beliefs in 560 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: honoring your parents and restricting your activities so you would 561 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: do well in school. Thinking on my childhood leaves me conflicted. 562 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I hated it and it 563 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: led me to have a negative relationship with my parents 564 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: as an adult. But at the same time, I went 565 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: to an Ivy League school because I worked really hard 566 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: in high school. So at times I resent the success 567 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: because of what caused it. So I don't know if 568 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: it's a good thing or not. I just know for me, 569 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: it costs more than it was war So thanks for sharing, Anonymous, 570 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: and I have one here from Henry. He says, I 571 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: listen to your podcast on Chinese children being more loyal, 572 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: and it actually helped me in my religious studies exam yesterday. 573 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: Yore welcome, he said. However, I do think that children 574 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: showing gratitude isn't just due to Chinese culture. Other groups 575 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: exhibit similar behavior. My dad is from Nigeria and there 576 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: was expectations on him to not only care for his parents, 577 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: but perform other acts as well. In Igbo culture, one 578 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: symbolic act is to give your parents your first salary 579 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: payment and they take up part of it and give 580 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: the rest back. In Africa, if your child is rude, 581 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: it brings a lot of shame on you, and in 582 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: some nations, rude children have been accused of being witches 583 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: and suffer in the name of their parents reputation. I 584 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: hope I've given you an insight into the issue from 585 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: another perspective, and you certainly have, Henry, so thank you. 586 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: I can't count the number of times I would have 587 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: been accused of being a witch as a child because 588 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,879 Speaker 1: of like temper, tantrums and things. And now if only 589 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: we could do an outro with each woman, can will 590 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: spare you from my singing? So thanks to everybody who 591 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: has written in Mom Sebody Discovery dot com is our 592 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 1: email address. You can also find us on Facebook, drop 593 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: us a line there and like us while you're at it, 594 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: and follow us on Twitter at Mom's Stuff podcast. And 595 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: you can also follow us on Tumbler where it's stuff 596 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,839 Speaker 1: mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com, and don't 597 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,720 Speaker 1: forget to watch us Monday, Wednesday and Friday on YouTube 598 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,439 Speaker 1: we come out with a new video, so head over there. 599 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,359 Speaker 1: It's YouTube dot com slash stuff Mom Never Told You 600 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 1: and subscribe for more on this and fountains of other topics. 601 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: Isn't how Stuff Works dot com