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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to Counterpoints. Emily.

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Speaker 4: Thanks to you and Christel for picking up the slack

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Speaker 4: last Wednesday. How was the Ladies Show?

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Speaker 5: It was great? How was the Fish show? Shows?

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Speaker 3: The Fish Shows were wonderful.

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Speaker 4: Might be a little weepy today and now the re

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Speaker 4: entry is difficult, the serotonin depletion, but I think we'll.

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Speaker 3: Get through this. So you've got this. If you do

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Speaker 3: see a tier two, it's I got some other stuff

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Speaker 3: going on.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, he's working through things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, So we're going to have an interesting

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Speaker 3: show today.

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Speaker 4: We've got the results out of Michigan, both in the

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Speaker 4: Republican primary and in the Democratic primary.

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Speaker 3: Democratic voter sent Biden a brutal.

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Speaker 4: Message by with more than one hundred thousand of them

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Speaker 4: telling them, telling him they are uncommitted at this point,

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Speaker 4: Republican voters sent Nikki Haley a pretty brutal message too well.

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Speaker 5: I mean that's been an ongoing story for the last

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Speaker 5: couple of months.

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Speaker 3: Think she's going to get that message.

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Speaker 5: She's I think I'm rooting for the comeback ride. She's

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Speaker 5: the real underdog.

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Speaker 3: I thing's possible.

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Speaker 4: So we're going to talk about twenty twenty four polling.

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Speaker 4: We're also going to have updates on the negotiations toward

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Speaker 4: a potential ceasefire in the Israel Gaza war. My colleague

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Speaker 4: mas Hussein was on John Stewart this week talking debating

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Speaker 4: Israel Palace time with Yer Rosenberg. We're going to talk

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Speaker 4: about that for a little bit and what else we got.

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Speaker 4: We might have a shutdown. I think we will shut

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Speaker 4: down by the end of this week.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think we will have a shutdown by the

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Speaker 5: end of this week. So we're going to go through

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Speaker 5: there's a bunch of clips from yesterday, people coming in

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Speaker 5: and out of the White House, Speaker Mike Johnson, Chuck

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Speaker 5: Schumer talking about their perspective on how to keep the

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Speaker 5: government open. But it seems really unlikely that the government

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Speaker 5: is going to stay open. So we'll break down some

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Speaker 5: of those dynamics as they stand today. Whens and we're

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Speaker 5: really excited to have Gabriel shipt him back in a

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Speaker 5: year for an interview.

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Speaker 4: And Julian Sanje's brother. He's in the United States this week.

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Speaker 4: He'll be in studio. Last week, as you guys talked about,

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Speaker 4: Juliana sanch had potentially his last extradition hearing over in

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Speaker 4: the UK. The next step would be yanking him over

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Speaker 4: here and throwing him into some maximum security prison for

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Speaker 4: the crime of publishing documents.

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Speaker 5: Let's start those with Starbucks.

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Speaker 3: Ryan, Yes, some huge news on the union front.

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Speaker 4: So Starbucks announced yesterday that it has reached an agreement

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Speaker 4: with Starbucks United, which is the union that has been

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Speaker 4: going around organizing Starbucks coffee shops around the country. It

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Speaker 4: has been, you know, one of the you know, most

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Speaker 4: intense kind of battles between labor and capital that we

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Speaker 4: that we've seen in the United States. Schultze, CEO, the

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Speaker 4: founder of the company, just despises this union with every

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Speaker 4: fiber of his body.

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Speaker 5: He takes it so personally he does.

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Speaker 4: And what we learned from the American Prospect actually is

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Speaker 4: that these negotiations began after and I'd reported this in

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Speaker 4: the intercept, that Starbucks decided it was going to sue

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Speaker 4: its union for using a Starbucks logo while opposing the

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Speaker 4: War in Gaza. So all of us actually started with

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Speaker 4: the Starbucks workers protest against the War in Gaza.

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Speaker 3: Those that lawsuit then led.

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Speaker 4: To some negotiations between the union and the company, and

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Speaker 4: over the last week, as the Prospect reports, those negotiations

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Speaker 4: evolved into actual talks about the union itself. And so

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Speaker 4: the result, and what we're hearing is that this is

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Speaker 4: actually potentially more significant that it seems. The result is

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Speaker 4: that there's going to be an agreement on an organized

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Speaker 4: and fair process toward forming unions in Starbucks coffee shops,

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Speaker 4: and Starbucks is going to negotiate collectively with all of

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Speaker 4: those shops rather than what they've been doing is kind

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Speaker 4: of individually trying to crush every union. And what I

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Speaker 4: think this reveals is that Starbucks is recognizing a they

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Speaker 4: have a huge image problem in the wake of the

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Speaker 4: guys A war, yes, and also that their workers are

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Speaker 4: overwhelmingly in support of a union.

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Speaker 5: So it sounds like, I mean, Starbucks is one of

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Speaker 5: the more interesting union dribes from my perspectives, because it

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Speaker 5: also affects more than hundreds of thousands of workers in

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Speaker 5: the United States. Basically an ever street cornerat in major

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Speaker 5: cities and everyone's town at this point almost as a

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Speaker 5: Starbucks unless you're lived in a pretty rural area. So

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Speaker 5: there's just a lot going on with the dynamics culturally

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Speaker 5: with Starbucks. There are people in major city is one

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Speaker 5: of the reasons it was a great Jacobin interview from

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Speaker 5: a couple of years ago. People felt like they were

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Speaker 5: being forced to work like untrained social workers because of

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Speaker 5: some of the new policies about bathrooms that have since

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Speaker 5: been rescinded. But there's just I mean, Starbucks workers have

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Speaker 5: a very interesting and I hate to use the word unique,

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Speaker 5: but it is kind of a unique, I guess, case

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Speaker 5: to make for the unionization.

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Speaker 4: Meanwhile, relatedly, a Mercedes plant in UAW, the workers there

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Speaker 4: announced that they that more than fifty percent of them

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Speaker 4: have signed cards asking to be to organize with the UAW.

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Speaker 3: So the UAW is.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely on fire just like rolling up these plants, and

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Speaker 4: whether they can actually turn just over fifty percent of

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Speaker 4: cards into a union remains to be seen, but it

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Speaker 4: shows extraordinary momentum. The ig Metal, which is maybe the

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Speaker 4: biggest and strongest union in the world, a union in Germany,

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Speaker 4: is going to pressure Mercedes and is pressuring Mercedes to

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Speaker 4: be fair and to treat this treat this union drive fairly. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 4: of course, Chinese ev cars are threatening to destroy the

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Speaker 4: entire American auto manufacturing industry. So we'll see if the

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Speaker 4: uaw's kind of revival comes a little bit too late.

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Speaker 5: Well, Ran, that's a great transition to the Michigan primary

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Speaker 5: election results. That it really really is perfect, especially with

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Speaker 5: the electric vehicle point, not just the UAW, but specifically

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Speaker 5: the election. Yeah, I think it's the fish though.

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Speaker 3: The wave of your fer camerly flowed.

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Speaker 5: So in Michigan last night, Donald Trump won the Republican

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Speaker 5: nomination sixty eight to twenty seven percent, So sixty eight

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Speaker 5: percent for Donald Trump, twenty seven percent for Nikki Haley.

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Speaker 5: One of the big stories though, though you weren't hearing

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Speaker 5: a lot about it in the media this morning, is

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Speaker 5: that thirteen percent of Michigan voters selected uncommitted, so Joe

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Speaker 5: Biden got eighty one percent of the vote. Thirteen percent

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Speaker 5: went to uncommitted. If you're doing the math there, that's

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Speaker 5: because also another five percentage points, as one of our

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Speaker 5: great producers pointed out, for US went to Dean Phillips

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Speaker 5: and Mary and Williamson. So one hundred thousand votes, more

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Speaker 5: than one hundred thousand votes went to uncommitted. You add

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Speaker 5: twenty two thousand for Maryanne and twenty thousand for Dean

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Speaker 5: Phillips into the mix, and you're almost getting to one

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Speaker 5: out of every five voters one in every eight went

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Speaker 5: for uncommitted. But Michigan is a state that Joe Biden

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Speaker 5: barely won. I think it was around three points he

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Speaker 5: eked out of victory in twenty twenty, So a huge

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Speaker 5: battleground state for him. And if you're doing the math,

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Speaker 5: Ryan in a primary election which is generally low turnout,

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Speaker 5: and in fact, forty percent more voters turned out for

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Speaker 5: Republicans than Democrats last night, So if you're doing the

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Speaker 5: math for Biden come November, this is a very very

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Speaker 5: bad sign. We know that they were expecting potentially a

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Speaker 5: bad sign because they've dispatched all of their aids, not

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Speaker 5: all of them, but an army of aids to dearborn

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Speaker 5: and the Muslim American communities in Michigan. So they understand

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Speaker 5: that they have a problem on their hands here, but

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Speaker 5: I think that problem might be bigger than even they realized.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the low turnout is key because you have to

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Speaker 4: combine the two things. Yes, so there's one hundred thousand

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Speaker 4: plus people in Michigan turned out to the polls to

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Speaker 4: vote uncommitted. They walked to their polling place, they got

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Speaker 4: on a bus, they drove, they saw in many cases,

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Speaker 4: they registered that day just to register the fact that

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Speaker 4: they wanted to reject Biden, that they were not willing

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Speaker 4: to vote for Biden, a complete rejection of what they

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Speaker 4: were being offered. The rest that represent that gap of

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Speaker 4: forty fifty percent between Democrats and Republicans rejected the status

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Speaker 4: quote by just staying home, and that hurts Democrats just

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Speaker 4: as much. In November, ask Hillary Clinton what happens in

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Speaker 4: Michigan when people are so unenthusiastic or opposed to your

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Speaker 4: campaign that they just don't bother to show up on

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Speaker 4: election Day.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. And you know it's funny because I was reading

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Speaker 5: a news report I think this was in the New

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Speaker 5: York Times this morning about how you know if the

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Speaker 5: Arab American vote swings thirty percent to Donald Trump at Michigan,

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Speaker 5: it could be enough for Joe Biden to end up losing.

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Speaker 5: They had a poll that showed something like that in

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Speaker 5: the works, potentially a Times Siena pole. But to your point,

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Speaker 5: just talking about a swing towards Trump is wildly insufficient.

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Speaker 5: I mean, turnout is equally an important part of the

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Speaker 5: equation there. So when you have forty percent more Republican

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Speaker 5: voters turning out the Democratic voters, yeah, No, I mean

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Speaker 5: I think that's not a great sign for Joe Biden.

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Speaker 5: Who if you'd understand that there's a battle over uncommitted happening,

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Speaker 5: you really want to make your mark for Joe Biden,

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Speaker 5: you go turn out in the polls. So to have

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Speaker 5: low turnout even if it's a pretty obvious outcome, right,

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Speaker 5: you know that Joe Biden ultimately is going to prevail,

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Speaker 5: but you would want to stamp down talk of quote uncommitted.

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Speaker 5: You show up to vote.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think the bigger problem for the Biden

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Speaker 4: campaign is that they they and their enablers in the

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Speaker 4: media harbored this genuinely kind of racist view that it

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Speaker 4: was only Arab and Muslim voters that cared about this genocide.

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Speaker 3: Going on.

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Speaker 4: The idea that there is universal concern for women, children, elderly,

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Speaker 4: innocent people get getting killed is just kind of anathma

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Speaker 4: to this increasing I guess identitarian politics that has taken

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Speaker 4: hold in the Democratic Party, where you would have people saying,

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Speaker 4: you know what, only two percent of the Michigan population

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Speaker 4: is Arab, So this isn't actually a promise, like you

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Speaker 4: really think that it's only Arab people that care about

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Speaker 4: children getting killed by the hundreds every single day. And secondly,

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Speaker 4: because the way the census works, it's not two percent,

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Speaker 4: it's significantly more than two percent. But what these results

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Speaker 4: showed is that racist assumption was utterly flawed. Basically everywhere

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Speaker 4: around Michigan, at least ten percent of the electorate voted

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Speaker 4: uncommitted places that have close to zero.

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Speaker 3: Arab American population.

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Speaker 4: Now in Dearborn, in places like that, you saw absolute

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Speaker 4: blowouts for uncommitted, But in say ann Arbor, you had

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Speaker 4: something like thirty percent of people coming out and voting uncommitted.

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Speaker 4: So we can put up here, and it's also not

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Speaker 4: just young people. You also hear young people and Arab

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Speaker 4: Americans like that. That is the way that people have

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Speaker 4: generously started to expand it. Oh yeah, you know, those

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Speaker 4: soft hearted young people, they also care about genocide.

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Speaker 3: That that's also not true.

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Speaker 4: The penetration of opposition to genocide is is across the

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Speaker 4: demographic board. Now, how many people are going to come

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Speaker 4: out and express that varies, but it's not just isolated.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, and if you were just looking at that map,

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Speaker 5: you saw again that Dean Phillips and mary Anne Williamson

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Speaker 5: had more than forty thousand votes between them in addition

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Speaker 5: to the more than one hundred thousand votes.

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Speaker 3: And those are protest votes.

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Speaker 4: Nobody walked into the polling place thinking that if they

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Speaker 4: voted for Marianne that she was going to win, or

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Speaker 4: that they voted for Dean that he's going to become

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Speaker 4: the nominee.

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Speaker 3: That's sending a signal.

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Speaker 4: And both of those candidates were deeply frustrated that all

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Speaker 4: of the kind of social media energy and the kind

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Speaker 4: of public on the ground grassroots energy became organized around

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Speaker 4: voting uncommitted and no doubt, like back in nineteen sixty eight,

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Speaker 4: you had McCarthy to vote for. Like it's easier for

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Speaker 4: organizers if somebody is running on a popular banner of

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Speaker 4: peace and it becomes the one that you're going to

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Speaker 4: vote for to send that signal.

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Speaker 3: That's much easier. But the population wants to.

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Speaker 4: Express its democratic will and it's going to find a

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Speaker 4: way to do it. Often they find that way to

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Speaker 4: do it by just not voting and just not showing up.

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Speaker 4: This gave people an opportunity to say, Okay, I can

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Speaker 4: actually show up and be heard and have my frustration

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Speaker 4: against this shown.

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Speaker 5: So let's put a two up on the screen. This

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Speaker 5: is some notable quote uncommitted slash no preference vote shares

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Speaker 5: from Obama's uncontested twenty twelve primaries. So again this happened

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Speaker 5: in twenty twelve. Those were very low turnout primaries because

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Speaker 5: you know, satisfaction with the candidate was a lot higher

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Speaker 5: than it is with Biden. So Kentucky was at forty

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Speaker 5: two percent, Michigan itself was at a let seven percent,

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Speaker 5: North Carolina twenty one percent, and then you had some

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Speaker 5: other states Rhode Island, Tennessee. People were organized and Ryan

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Speaker 5: you probably covered that at the time, mobilized enough people

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Speaker 5: to come out to uncommitted to the point where it

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Speaker 5: was forty two percent in Kentucky. But again, that was

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Speaker 5: a totally different context and bigger.

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Speaker 3: Raw numbers here.

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Speaker 4: Yes, like the number of well over one hundred thousand

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Speaker 4: is the one that they're going to have to take home.

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Speaker 5: The satisfaction with Obama on behalf of Democrats in twenty

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Speaker 5: eleven relatively high compared to.

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Speaker 4: Well Bernie was calling for to his eternal kind of

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Speaker 4: electoral Chagrin was calling for a primary challenge to Obama

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Speaker 4: because he was embracing austerity at the time. By the

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Speaker 4: time of the election, he had gone into kind of

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Speaker 4: populist mode, painting Romney as the plutocrad that he was.

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Speaker 4: And so the left was and there was no primary challenge.

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Speaker 4: They're a little back behind that.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, it's not like everyone was, Oh, Obama is,

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Speaker 5: you know, the savior of the working class. But it

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Speaker 5: was satisfaction with it Romney. Satisfaction with Joe Biden is

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Speaker 5: on a Dissatisfaction with Joe Biden's on another level in

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Speaker 5: this case. So let's go ahead and pivot to this

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Speaker 5: conflict that bubbled over on CNN.

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Speaker 4: We knew that cable News was going to have a

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Speaker 4: measure sober response to the Michigan public declaring its opposition

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Speaker 4: to this genocide, and they delivered for us. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 4: show a friend of the show, Nina Turner here walking

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Speaker 4: into the lions Den and trying to actually talk substance

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Speaker 4: with a CNN horse race panel, and let's see how

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Speaker 4: well that goes.

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Speaker 6: And I think sometimes as we talk about this issue,

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Speaker 6: we're making it. We're centering President Biden, we are centering

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Speaker 6: former President Donald J. Trump, when the uncommitted efforts is

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Speaker 6: the center the people closest to the pain, and that

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Speaker 6: is the air of American community, that is the Palestinian community,

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Speaker 6: that is communities that care about peace. And so while

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Speaker 6: this president was in the ice cream shop saying I

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Speaker 6: think there's going to be a ceasefire, thirty thousand people

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Speaker 6: have been slaughtered. People are living in famine. They can't

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Speaker 6: get medical care, so it can't come soon enough for them.

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Speaker 6: And that was really the weight that I picked up

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Speaker 6: on when I was in Dearborn. So we get to

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Speaker 6: be comfortable and talk about this like these people are

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Speaker 6: widgets when they are in fact suffering. And I am

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Speaker 6: young enough to remember, colleagues, when Congresswoman Rashida to Leib

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Speaker 6: and also Congresswoman Corey Bush called for a ceasefire very

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Speaker 6: early on.

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Speaker 3: They were called abhorrent.

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Speaker 6: Now fast forward to all of these bodies land in

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Speaker 6: the wake and people who are living through this every

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Speaker 6: single day.

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Speaker 7: By the way, there's also been slaughter in say so

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Speaker 7: on both sides. No, I'm not on your lecture on

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Speaker 7: the problem. What I'm talking about the politics of this tonight.

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Speaker 7: How what to you would be a victory if somebody

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Speaker 7: was calling for this uncommitted vote, what to you would

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Speaker 7: be a victory tonight?

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Speaker 3: To get that messages.

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Speaker 6: I'm not denying that pain. All I'm saying that at

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Speaker 6: a certain point after October to seventh, it becomes clear.

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Speaker 6: I mean, you have a right wing prime minister. But

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Speaker 6: but you understand, say, I'm not denying anybody's pain. What

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Speaker 6: I am saying is that this president and our country

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Speaker 6: has the power to say to net and Yahoo, we

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Speaker 6: need a permanent cease fire.

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Speaker 3: The only time I only wait one more point.

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Speaker 6: The only time hostages were released is when we had

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Speaker 6: that brief cease fire.

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Speaker 5: That is another reason why.

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Speaker 8: But also I also have to remind people we had

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Speaker 8: to ceasefire prior to October seventh, well, that.

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Speaker 4: It was uncomfortable and let me say something in defense

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Speaker 4: of Nina Turner there that people might not recognize. So

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Speaker 4: in that back and forth there, so when Anderson Cooper

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Speaker 4: jumps in, he's like, hold hold on, there's pain on

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Speaker 4: both sides here, and then tries to move it back

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Speaker 4: to the horse race and he's like, give me your

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Speaker 4: view of the politics here, and then she takes it

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Speaker 4: back to the pain. Like he gets he gets upset

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Speaker 4: with her, like, hey, I told you to take this

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Speaker 4: back to the horse race. But if if she hadn't

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Speaker 4: done that, you know, she knows that she's constantly getting

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Speaker 4: hit as you hostile to Israel and maybe even anti Semitic,

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Speaker 4: and that if she didn't respond to that, then that

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Speaker 4: would be the thing that people would hit her for.

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Speaker 4: So she has to then, so he he kind of

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Speaker 4: forces her to respond to that and then gets upset

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Speaker 4: with her that when she does, you know, actually respond

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Speaker 4: to that.

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Speaker 3: But it was interesting to see the panel just.

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Speaker 4: So reflexively unable to even kind of think about the

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Speaker 4: substance of the issue, like what is why are people

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Speaker 4: voting the way that they did?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the I don't we don't need a lecture on

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Speaker 5: the problem line is come on, not collegial. So it

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Speaker 5: tells me that Anderson Cooper must have and that sells.

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Speaker 3: Directed at the voters too in a way.

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Speaker 4: It's like like frustrated at the voters that they're like

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Speaker 4: going to lecture about like that. And you saw people

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Speaker 4: getting saying that, ah, these these voters and who want

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Speaker 4: their moral clarity like more, what and what a lot

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Speaker 4: of them are demanding is is not actually that much.

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Speaker 3: You're just saying, just call for a ceasefire.

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Speaker 5: So on this point, we also have an exchange between

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Speaker 5: Jake Tapper and Wie Dingle to roll let's watch that.

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Speaker 9: And what is it You have been with about sixteen

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Speaker 9: percent of the vote in so it's going to be

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Speaker 9: a sizeable uncommitted vote. Is this a surprise to you

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Speaker 9: in any way? And what do you make of this

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Speaker 9: potential impact? Will the White House change course in any way?

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Speaker 10: So, first of all, it's not a surprise to me.

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Speaker 10: I've been telling people that we have a kind of

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Speaker 10: campaign called Listen to Michigan with people that want to

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Speaker 10: be listened to. But you know, as everybody started acting

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Speaker 10: surprise tonight or were looking at figures, I said to

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Speaker 10: multiple people over the course of the last month and

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Speaker 10: my district, Washnon County, which has got Ann Arbor and

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Speaker 10: Ippsilani and everybody really ignores me when I say Hipsilanti too,

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Speaker 10: I bet have more committed votes than dearborn. And as

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Speaker 10: you're watching, I'm going.

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Speaker 11: To be right and I expected it because it's not

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Speaker 11: just the air of American Muslim community. It's young people

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Speaker 11: who you know want to be heard, are concerned, have

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Speaker 11: the same concerns about They know what Hamas did was

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Speaker 11: a pair is it? But they are watching innocent civilians

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Speaker 11: be killed in that kind of damage. That that's there.

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Speaker 10: We've got to talk about that issue, but we've got

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Speaker 10: to talk about a lot of other issues too.

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Speaker 5: So actually sounding a little bit like Nina Turner from

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Speaker 5: one of the most moderate members, one of the most

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Speaker 5: centrist members of the Hou Representatives, now Tapper doesn't shut

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Speaker 5: her down like Cooper shud down Anderson Cooper, I think

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Speaker 5: because she delivered it in a way that was that

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Speaker 5: strikes you know, your average in an anchor as being

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Speaker 5: a different angle than listening to Nina Turner, who's someone

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Speaker 5: on the left. But if it comes out of the

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Speaker 5: mouth of a centrist, it's exactly the point you were making, right,

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Speaker 5: she's talking about epseil Ante, she's talking about Ann Arbor.

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Speaker 4: She won a bunch of credibility too, because she was

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Speaker 4: the person in twenty sixteen who was, you know, most

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Speaker 4: loudly yelling at the Hillary Clinton campaign, well Michael Moore,

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Speaker 4: telling them that they were misunderstanding what was happening in

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Speaker 4: Michigan and that they were on the brink of losing it.

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Speaker 4: And she was doing that publicly enough that when it

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Speaker 4: actually came to pass, everybody was like, oh yeah, Debbie

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Speaker 4: Dinga was saying that. So now when she talks and

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Speaker 4: makes an electoral argument, people listen.

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Speaker 3: One of the kind of.

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Speaker 4: I think hard to swallow pills for people is that

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Speaker 4: is the Biden line that comes out where he says, well,

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Speaker 4: this is not about electoral politics, this is about doing.

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Speaker 3: The right thing.

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Speaker 4: It's like, well, that's almost worse like the idea that

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Speaker 4: you think that you look at you're handling of this

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Speaker 4: assault since October seventh, and you look at the thirty

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Speaker 4: thousand dead plus, you know, there's just recent projections that

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Speaker 4: you know you're looking at. Even if there's a ceasefire

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Speaker 4: right now, you're looking at tens of thousands more. You're

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Speaker 4: looking at the Israeli civilians in coordination with the idea

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Speaker 4: of setting up bouncy castles and having carnivals outside of

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Speaker 4: the fence into Gaza, and at those carnivals protesting and

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Speaker 4: blocking aid from getting in while children have now gone

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Speaker 4: from the brink of famine, the brink of starvation to

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Speaker 4: actually starving to death. And so you look at that

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Speaker 4: and you say, you think you're the one who's ignoring

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Speaker 4: electoral implications and doing the right thing, then you are

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Speaker 4: a moral creature of like such disrepute that we don't

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Speaker 4: mind seeing you lose the same to mind, no.

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Speaker 3: Matter what the consequences are.

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Speaker 5: So another note, I mean again, Debbie Dingle was talking

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Speaker 5: about this not being isolated to Dearborn, and that was

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Speaker 5: the point that you made, Ryan, which means that this

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Speaker 5: translates outside of Michigan. That's a really important.

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Speaker 4: They're moving to Minnesota, like Minnesota's next, and you're going

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Speaker 4: to see people pushing to vote uncommitted in or whatever.

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Speaker 4: I don't know the exact what you can vote on

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Speaker 4: the ballot. Michigan has the uncommitted line, but in Minnesota

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Speaker 4: they're going to be pushing for something similar. You know,

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Speaker 4: New Hampshire they've said, right and cease fire. You know

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Speaker 4: that you have to do something different in every state

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Speaker 4: because we've got these federated electoral systems.

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Speaker 5: So literally, as we were talking, one of the candidates

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Speaker 5: that we mentioned here, someone who got twenty two thousand

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Speaker 5: votes in Michigan last night, unsuspended her campaign. And that

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Speaker 5: would be Marianne Williamson. Again, this happened as we were

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Speaker 5: discussing this on air and taping this very segment. Let's

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Speaker 5: take a listen to what Marion had to say.

440
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: Hey, I have an important announcement to make as of today,

441
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: I am unsuspending my campaign.

442
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 10: For the presidency of the United States.

443
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 5: I had suspended it because I was losing the horse race.

444
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 1: But something so much more important than the horse race

445
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: is at stake here and we must respond.

446
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 5: Right, Marion Williamson unsuspending her campaign. The uncommitted movement now

447
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 5: with a little bit of momentum going to like you said, Minnesota,

448
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 5: California's got a primary coming up. We're reeling right into

449
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 5: We're rolling right into Super Tuesday. It looks like Biden

450
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 5: might be facing a seriously mobilized protest volte movement in

451
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 5: this primary.

452
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 4: Now, yes, I mean across the Democratic Party. The opposition

453
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 4: to his unconditional support for Israel's war effort is overwhelming.

454
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 4: There was a Paul recently that showed that there's double

455
00:23:54,119 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 4: digit opposition from Jewish Democrats and significant double digit now

456
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 4: like ten or twelve, I don't remember the exact number,

457
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 4: but it's significant O and that stretches across the board.

458
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 4: There's basically no demographic in the Democratic coalition that supports

459
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 4: what Biden is doing, and so they're going to be

460
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 4: looking for any channel to express that opposition.

461
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 5: And just before we leave this block, I know we

462
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 5: didn't cover much Trump Haley ground because basically the results

463
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 5: are really similar to what people expected. So sixty eight

464
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 5: to twenty seven. Again, that's the breakdown. There was a

465
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 5: five thirty.

466
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,479
Speaker 4: Eight polling out five percent uncommitted, right, I'm doing my

467
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 4: math right, it's.

468
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 5: Somewhere around it. But there's a and Nicki Hilly, to

469
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 5: your point, is kind of a protest vote to Donald Trump.

470
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 5: There's not a lot of people who are like I

471
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 5: just love Nikki Haley. There's some people there Democrats that

472
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 5: love there's some yeah, exactly exactly, but again, There was

473
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 5: a five thirty eight average that I saw getting a

474
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 5: little bit of attraction on the internet last night, and

475
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 5: I went and looked at it. It was like a

476
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 5: few polls over the course in the last couple of months,

477
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 5: and so Trump did underperform that by about ten points.

478
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 5: It had him in the mid to high seventies, and

479
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 5: again he.

480
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 3: Ended up six pattern right, he keeps under performing his polls.

481
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 5: He keeps underperforming, although I don't necessarily know that that's

482
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 5: a huge Again, when the polls are in state levels.

483
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 5: I mean, polls just aren't always If you have a

484
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 5: polling average of a couple polls in Michigan, I don't

485
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 5: know what that means, but it's still obviously the quote

486
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 5: that I wanted to read from this acxios report was

487
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 5: about Nikki Haley. They said, but a sizable trunk Nikki

488
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 5: Haley's performance so again twenty seven percent. And Nicki Haley,

489
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 5: when she was in South Carolina, her home state that

490
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 5: she poured way more money into than Donald Trump poured

491
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 5: into South Carolina, she actually outspent round of Santis and

492
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 5: Trump in Iowa. She wildly outspent Donald Trump in New Hampshire.

493
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 5: So she's pouring a lot of money into these states,

494
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 5: getting thirty forty percent of the vote. Again, we saw

495
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 5: that happen last night. Significant in a place where Donald

496
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 5: Trump was always felt at home. It's done a lot

497
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 5: of stuff in Michigan. Axios says that the vote for

498
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 5: Nicki Haley shows that quote, but a sizable chunk of

499
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 5: Republican voters may never be on board with Donald Trump. Yeah,

500
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 5: it's twenty twenty four. We've known that since twenty fifteen.

501
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 5: We've seen it again since twenty sixteen. We saw it

502
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 5: in twenty eighteen, we sat in twenty twenty, we signed

503
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty two. We did not need Nikki Haley

504
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 5: coming at twenty seven percent in Michigan to show that

505
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 5: a sizable chunk of Republican voters may never be on

506
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 5: board with Donald Trump. But thank you Mike Allen for

507
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 5: putting that out.

508
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 4: But meanwhile, an interesting New Yugov Economist poll finds that

509
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 4: he's picked up sizeable ground basically since Biden was sworn in. Now,

510
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 4: we could put this tweet from Adam Carlson up here,

511
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 4: but well, you have to remember that this represents sort

512
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 4: of a nator of Trump support. Like this is the

513
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 4: moment this we're talking like just a little bit after

514
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 4: January sixth, where the guy's mob ransacked the capitol and

515
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 4: he's like facing impeachment. So this bottoming out, He's seen

516
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 4: a forty five point gain among black voters, a forty

517
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 4: point gain among people eighteen to twenty nine, let's go

518
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 4: back to that in a second. Interestingly, a twenty seven

519
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 4: percent gain among people who make more than one hundred

520
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 4: thousand dollars modern he's doing. And then he's picked up

521
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 4: about a fifth of the electorate with basically everybody else,

522
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 4: you know, moderates people letting less than fifty percent, even

523
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 4: liberals and Democrats. That comes, I think from how you know,

524
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 4: he was down in probably single digits among some among

525
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 4: some of those liberals and Democrats pulling.

526
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 5: Finding the shifts in black voters, young voters, and Hispanic

527
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 5: voters tirty seventy four terrify Joe Biden. And another thing

528
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 5: I just want to point out, because you won't hear

529
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 5: it in the corporate press, is that this is just

530
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 5: about Donald Trump. And I'm not particularly a fan of

531
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 5: Donald Trump, nor are most people that work in journalism professionally.

532
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 5: But this is only happening with Donald Trump. This would

533
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 5: you would not see these numbers with Nikki Haley. You

534
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 5: would not see these numbers with other Republican candidates. For

535
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 5: some reason, Donald Trump is making inroads with black voters,

536
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 5: young voters, and Hispanic voters that Republicans who put out

537
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 5: in twenty twelve their RNC autopsy saying, the only way

538
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 5: that we're going to win Hispanic voters is by moderating

539
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 5: on immigration. The only way we're going to win young

540
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 5: voters is by moderating on culture war issues. For some reason,

541
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 5: Donald Trump is making inroads with those voting blocks that

542
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 5: other Republicans are not, and other Republicans have never figured

543
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 5: out how to do it. And again, so much of

544
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 5: this is just like unique to Donald Trump, Donald Trump.

545
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 5: You can't really replicate Donald Trump and Doug Mastriano or

546
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 5: even in Rond De Santis, as we've seen many different

547
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 5: times play out with many different candidates. So it's not

548
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 5: like this is some boon of the Republican Party. I think,

549
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 5: you know, it would be easy to read these numbers

550
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 5: and say, wow, you know, Donald Trump, He's the future

551
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 5: of the Republican Party. Republican Party is now the party

552
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 5: of the young and Hispanics and the working class. It

553
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 5: doesn't translate to other Republicans, but it is something that

554
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 5: Donald Trump is doing, and these are huge gains in

555
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 5: ways that should definitely terrify Joe Biden. We can put

556
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 5: b two up on the screen here. This is another

557
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 5: one of the polls. This is from an Axios poll.

558
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 5: They found again gen Z millennial voters Kida Biden's twenty

559
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 5: twenty victory. They turned out in huge numbers, favored him

560
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 5: by twenty points back in twenty twenty. His support for Israel,

561
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 5: biden support for Israel is hurting him with young voters.

562
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 5: Biden got fifty two percent to Trump's forty eight percent

563
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 5: in a new Axios gen Lab survey of voters between

564
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 5: the ages of eighteen and thirty four. Forty nine percent

565
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 5: of eighteen to twenty nine year old supported Trump, compared

566
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 5: with forty three percent for Biden in a New York

567
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 5: Times Sienna College poll. So that's Axios in New York

568
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 5: Times finding Donald Trump making huge, huge inroads on Joe

569
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 5: Biden with young voters in the midst of the October

570
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 5: seventh fallout. And Ryan another part of this that's interesting

571
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:06,239
Speaker 5: is that's not just people saying neither, that's people actually gravitating.

572
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: Forms Donald Trump.

573
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there was a vision in twenty twenty two

574
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:16,719
Speaker 4: of a Democratic coalition that would consist of young people,

575
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 4: then people with college degrees, people of color that could

576
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 4: get that could that was broadly behind a progressive agenda

577
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 4: that if if with enough a depth to kind of

578
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 4: work inside the coalition, could be weaponized toward a kind

579
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 4: of working class agenda, child tax credits, other support for

580
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 4: the working class, pro union stuff, that turns the Democratic

581
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 4: Coalition back into a genuinely progressive force.

582
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 3: Like you.

583
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 4: They only won, say Georgia, for instance, because of the

584
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 4: overwhelming support from voters of color and young people, and

585
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 4: there's a huge overlap between those two because the younger

586
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 4: generation is the most most diverse that we've had. That

587
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 4: that was a kind of hopeful vision of a Democratic

588
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 4: party that could actually do something good for everyday people

589
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 4: around the country. Uh, they threw that all away with

590
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 4: over support, unconditional support of this genocide in Gaza, And

591
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 4: for a prime minister in Benjamin Netanyahu whose mission is

592
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 4: to see Biden lose, it's absolutely just an incredible lack

593
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 4: of concern for their own electoral kind of success, absolutely

594
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 4: mind blowing. And so now you with Trump, even with

595
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 4: young people, that blows up that that potential coalition that

596
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 4: they had, unless you can get that back, which is

597
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 4: possible because, like you said, without Trump, those young people

598
00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 4: are like these guys, creeps and freaks. And we're actually

599
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 4: going to talk about that pretty soon. Yes, so it

600
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 4: could come back, but if you don't have that, if

601
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 4: you if you don't, because in order to win young

602
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 4: people and also in order to win a lot of

603
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 4: black voters, you need policies they are going to benefit

604
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 4: the kind of working class and progressive people kind of generally.

605
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 4: If you're not going for young people, then you're just

606
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 4: you know, playing Clintonian triangulation games and just trying to

607
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 4: you know, win fifty point one percent by picking off

608
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 4: you know, center right voters. And that's not a coalition

609
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 4: that certainly gets me excited.

610
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 5: So we saw Trump make huge in roads with in

611
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 5: the Rio Grand Valley, and Tager has talked about this

612
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 5: Texas guy, so he understands Texas politics. But Jhnald Trump's

613
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 5: margins with Hispanic voters in the rear Grand Valley and

614
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 5: taxes were very, very important to how close he came

615
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 5: to defeating Joe Biden back in twenty twenty. I mean,

616
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 5: these margins in certain states are just absolutely critical, especially

617
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 5: the battleground states in a place exactly like Michigan. But

618
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 5: these that's why this forty five percent jump again, that

619
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 5: is a very important point. It's from February of twenty

620
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 5: twenty one until now, so absolute low point for Donald Trump.

621
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 5: But it's a forty five point jump, you know, not

622
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 5: a five point jump ten point Trump forty five point jump.

623
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 5: So it's significant no matter what. Forty with people aged

624
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 5: eighteen to twenty nine, twenty seven, with Hispanic voters, that's

625
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 5: a huge deal. That's a five alarm fire type deal.

626
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 5: That's like the media is even covering this and they

627
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 5: don't like Donald Trump, but like it should be an

628
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 5: even bigger story given how huge these advantages are. Again

629
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 5: for Republicans, though, the Rio Grand Valley is a great example.

630
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 5: Mayra Flores was and she was redistricted, but was one

631
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 5: of those Hispanic candidates. She was elected to Congress. I

632
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 5: think she was elected in twenty twenty and then lost

633
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 5: again in twenty twenty two. But either way, with the redistricting,

634
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 5: she ended up losing her seat, and some of the

635
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 5: candidates done in the Rio Grand Valley that Kevin McCarthy

636
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 5: kind of hat and pick to win did not win.

637
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 5: There's something when Donald Trump is not on the ballot

638
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 5: that doesn't translate for Republican voters necessarily with those same

639
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 5: groups that have come to really like Donald Trump, and

640
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 5: the Republican Party keeps trying to push Donald Trump away.

641
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 5: That was one of his issues with Ronald McDaniel is

642
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 5: that she just didn't kind of get Trump as am.

643
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 5: She didn't want to necessarily have the RNC being used

644
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 5: in ways that were helpful in the legal battle sphere.

645
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 5: I mean, money is fungible, and I think they're not

646
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 5: technically allowed to use. He can't use campaign funds for

647
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 5: paying off the legal battles, so what the RNC can

648
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 5: do for the campaign then becomes a big question. But

649
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 5: the point is establishment Republicans in Washington are still very

650
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 5: uncomfortable with Donald Trump. But Donald Trump has a political

651
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 5: instincts that resonate with people, and you know, eight years later,

652
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 5: Republicans still can't quite grapple with that in a way

653
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 5: that translates to other candidates. Ryan Trump right away came

654
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 5: out and said we're protecting IVF. That's a second point

655
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:07,959
Speaker 5: of this block that we want to get to, because

656
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 5: when you're looking at Donald Trump specifically making gains with

657
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 5: young voters, with people who consider themselves liberal, he's up twenty.

658
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 5: He has a twenty point bump from February of twenty

659
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 5: twenty one that can go out the door with other

660
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 5: Republican candidates. Donald Trump, though, came out right away saying.

661
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is and this I think is the key

662
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 4: problem for the Republican coalition because the one thing that

663
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 4: kind of Trump and the anti Trump Republican establishment agree

664
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 4: on is that a lot of the kind of Republican

665
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 4: cultural positions are terrible for them in general elections. Yes,

666
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 4: and probably I probably nothing more so than the than

667
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 4: the IVF issue, right right, I mean, which is what's

668
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 4: within the sphere of abortion rights.

669
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 3: But it's probably even even worse for them.

670
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 5: I yes, significantly.

671
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 4: But so let's so today the Senate is going to

672
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 4: Democrats in the Senate, Tammy Duckworth something else and Patty

673
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 4: Murray are going to try to force a vote on

674
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 4: the Senate floor that tries to put Republicans on record

675
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 4: that will say you could put this element up here,

676
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 4: uh that will say I v F is protected on

677
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 4: a on a federal level. This flows out of the

678
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 4: kind of shocking to the public Alabama Supreme Court decision

679
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 4: that declared that embryos uh that have been produced through

680
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 4: the IVF process are children, uh and through through the

681
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,959
Speaker 4: entire kind of Alabama I v F system into into

682
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 4: complete chaos. All all of the people who have been

683
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 4: uh you know, hoping and praying uh that they're finally

684
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 4: going to have a chance to uh to to raise

685
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 4: children and spending like enormous amounts of money, like you know,

686
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 4: taking this taking you know, a lot of people do

687
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 4: this on credit uh and and otherwise making extraordinary sacrifices

688
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 4: because they want to they want to build a nuclear family.

689
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 4: Are now all of a sudden told that.

690
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 3: It's not happening.

691
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 4: Now Alabama's is trying to give some type of community

692
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 4: legal shield to doctors. But walk us through and actually

693
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 4: tell us a little bit about how big a part

694
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 4: of the kind of pro life movement is this IVF

695
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 4: faction that wants to go all the way to the

696
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 4: wall for this.

697
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 5: So in pro life circles you basically never hear this

698
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 5: talked about. It it's not in a top of mind issue,

699
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 5: especially after Dobbs. It's a lot of conversations just about

700
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 5: states and abortion in particular. Although if you believe, and

701
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 5: Crystal and I talked about this and actually really kind

702
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 5: of debated it a little bit last week. If you

703
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 5: believe that, you know, conception is the moment of that

704
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 5: life begins. Obviously, most people in pro life circles push

705
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 5: comes to shove, end up on that side of the

706
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 5: myself included to end up on side of that. But

707
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 5: there are other states. I think Louisiana is one of

708
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 5: the examples that have protections for embryos that have not

709
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 5: upended the entire IVF system in this way that I mean,

710
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 5: the politics of it are bad, and we'll get to

711
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 5: this in a bit, but the morality of it is awful.

712
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 5: I mean, NPR profiled a woman who is now like,

713
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 5: my embryos are at this clinic, but the clinic will

714
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 5: not give me my embryos, and the clinic can't do

715
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 5: anything with my fertilized embryos. It's just heart wrenching. People's

716
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 5: hopes and dreams and livelihoods are on the line because

717
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 5: of a ping ponging sort of legal question.

718
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 4: It's awful because you end up losing the moral thread there.

719
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 4: It feels like, if the purpose is life and family,

720
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 4: just leaving an embryo in a freezer indefinitely, yeah, doesn't

721
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 4: seem to even be kind of in service of their own.

722
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 5: No, no, not at all. Yeah. I think that's a

723
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 5: great point. And so Tammy Duckworth picked up on the

724
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 5: politics of the Donald Trump right away, so protecting it.

725
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 5: But Tammy Duckworth and Democrats immediately, there's a lot of

726
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 5: headlines that always say Republicans pounce whenever there's a politically

727
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 5: convenient issue for them. Well, Democrats definitely pounce this time.

728
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 5: Let's listen to Senator Duckworth, whose children, by the way,

729
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 5: were born by Ivah.

730
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: One in four married women have difficulty getting pregnant or

731
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: carrying a pregnancy to term. One in four. That doesn't

732
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: even include single individuals and other families also trying to conceive. So,

733
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: but to my Republican colleagues, please think about how many

734
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: that one in four represents in your state. Women willing

735
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: to go through expensive, painful treatsments just for a chance

736
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: to experience the most banal moments of parenthood. Just to

737
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: have a newborn to swaddle, a toddler whose shoes that

738
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: needed to be tied. And if you believe that they

739
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: should have the right to be called mom without also

740
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: being called a criminal, then all you have to do

741
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: to prove it is help us pass this should be

742
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: obvious legislation, because in this nightmarriage moment, it's nowhere near

743
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: enough to send out a vaguely worded tweet suggesting that

744
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: you care about women's rights despite a voting record to

745
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: the absolute contrary. Instead, if you truly care about the

746
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: sanctity of families, if you're genuinely, actually honestly interested in

747
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: protecting IVF, then you need to show it by not

748
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: blocking this bill on the floor tomorrow.

749
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 5: It's that simple. And she said that because we can

750
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 5: put this next element up on the screen. This is

751
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 5: from Newsweek. It's a headline that says Republicans call Alabama

752
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,959
Speaker 5: IVF ruling scary. And if you're watching this, you see

753
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 5: the picture of Matt Gates up on the screen. Because

754
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 5: Matt Gates is one of the Republicans who came out

755
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 5: right away and said nope, Republicans should be protecting IVF.

756
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 5: He said there was something quote totally wrong about the situation.

757
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 5: You also had Byron Donald's, another Freedom Caucus guy, come

758
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 5: out in that direction. And then some establishment people like

759
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 5: Christan Nunow, even Tommy Talberville again who is seen as

760
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 5: like now a pro life champion based on his stand

761
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 5: that we covered a lot here last year on Pentagon

762
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 5: and abortion.

763
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 4: Sort even rebels, even Dubberville, and so is if this

764
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 4: gets to the floor, will this be a thing where

765
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 4: Republicans just kind of cave and like it gets unanimous support.

766
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 5: I don't know, because Duckworth did something really clever. It's

767
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 5: basically like she's basically saying it would establish a federal

768
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 5: right to IVF and other fertility treatments that are risk

769
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 5: in the post row era. That's what, according to the Hill,

770
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 5: is on the line in the bill that she and

771
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 5: Patty Murray puts the floor. So if it's a bill

772
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 5: with really sweeping implications that Republicans don't necessarily want to

773
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 5: sign on to at a federal level, then she might

774
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 5: have a bunch of Republicans. And you heard that in

775
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 5: her quote at the end of the statement there. She

776
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 5: might have a bunch of Republicans in a real pickle

777
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 5: voting against a bill that they.

778
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 4: Feel as what are the sweeping kind of protections, like

779
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 4: it would undermine Louisiana's.

780
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 5: Maybe yeah, right, so like maybe if and I'm not

781
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 5: saying that that's the right interpretation of it, but you

782
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 5: could see how like legally, Republican interpretations of a federal

783
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 5: right to IVF might yeah, exactly, like go after certain

784
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 5: state protections or whatever, or it might just be something

785
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 5: that has implications for other abortion legislation. Because if you're

786
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 5: like birth control legislation, some really like I don't know.

787
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 3: Where they get even more tangled up.

788
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, because then they're like, well, I would love to

789
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 4: support this protection of IVF, but I'm worried it might

790
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,479
Speaker 4: protect birth control, and then voters like, well, wait a minute,

791
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 4: you're seriously against earth control too, exactly. And Speaker Mike

792
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 4: Johnson's response to this, I think was indicative of the

793
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 4: problems that Republicans have, where he immediately came out and

794
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 4: was like this, this is this is bad what the

795
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 4: Alabama Supreme Court did. And then people are immediately like,

796
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,919
Speaker 4: you sponsored a bill that would basically do this, yes,

797
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 4: and it feels like the Republican implicit responses Yeah, but

798
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 4: I just did that for political purposes, like I don't

799
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:56,240
Speaker 4: actually intend that to become law. And then the public

800
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 4: is like, well, we kind of heard you say that

801
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 4: for like fifty years with Roe v. Way, and we

802
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 4: sort of were lulled into complacency, and then all of

803
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 4: a sudden you overturn Roe v.

804
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 3: Wade. So this like, well, this is just cynicism that

805
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 3: we're doing here.

806
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 4: We wouldn't actually do this. It doesn't work. After they

807
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 4: overturned Row, Well.

808
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, and again you have Tammy Duckworth saying if you're serious,

809
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 5: you need to vote in favor of this bill, and

810
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 5: so I think, again, yeah, that's what Democrats have learned

811
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 5: is like the big political lesson post Row is to

812
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 5: tell Republicans to put their money where their mouth is

813
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 5: if they're going to come out in all of these things.

814
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 5: So I was on Megan Kelly show this week, and

815
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 5: among the sort of Republican politicians that we just discussed,

816
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 5: Megan's a huge supporter of IVF. And again, you know,

817
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 5: I've talked to debated with Crystal about this and others.

818
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 5: I have a wildly unpopular position on this, but it's

819
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 5: just sort of the logical consistency if you believe that

820
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 5: life begins a conception. This is where the problem for

821
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 5: Republican cross or no, not at all, And that's that's

822
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 5: what the clip actually gets to. So let's roll the conversation.

823
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 5: Megan gets into how I'm popular, She thinks this is

824
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 5: going to be for Republicans, dangerous to this for Republicans,

825
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 5: and then pushes me on one thing as well.

826
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 12: There is a huge difference between looking at a woman

827
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 12: and saying you do not have the right to kill

828
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 12: your own child and saying to her you do not

829
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 12: have the right to have your own child. That is

830
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 12: just a complete, completely different message politically, morally, religiously, take

831
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 12: your pick, and the latter's not going to fly. It's

832
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 12: not going to fly with Republicans. I'm not going to

833
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 12: fly with the very group that Trump is trying to

834
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 12: win over, as we discussed earlier, in particular young moderate women, right,

835
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 12: that's who he needs to win. So he took the

836
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 12: right position on this before we go, Can you just

837
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 12: can you expand on what you're saying, Emily, because it's

838
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 12: been a long while. You know, my youngest child is

839
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 12: now ten, so I haven't really been following the latest

840
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 12: IVF developments, But what is the more moral, humane way

841
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 12: of doing it that you're referring to.

842
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 5: So targeted, Yeah, like what you were saying about to

843
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 5: minimize situations where people have extra embryos that they have

844
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 5: to make decisions.

845
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 12: On, So like just put the number of eggs in

846
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 12: the petri dish that you're willing to have, like it's

847
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 12: really the eggs that will control the number of children.

848
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 5: Right right, right right, and then figuring out what these

849
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 5: clinics do with extra eggs too. I think that's a big, big, big,

850
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 5: big legal question as well, because now we have people

851
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 5: like the woman on the daily caught in the lurch

852
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 5: when a court decision comes down. So as the stuff

853
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 5: sort of flip flops or ping pongs through the legal system,

854
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 5: you don't have people's lives sort of caught in the balance,

855
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 5: And there should be some way that there's there's clarity

856
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 5: so people aren't in those situations. So Ryan Megan is

857
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 5: picking up on an important point which is similar to

858
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 5: what Tammy duckworth, so that you should have the right

859
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 5: to have your own child. The problem with the way

860
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 5: that I believe IVF should be done is that it's

861
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 5: extremely expensive to do that. It is basically unfeasible for

862
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,439
Speaker 5: a lot of people. So I don't pretend that that's

863
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 5: like an easy answer to the question, but I think,

864
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 5: you know, Republicans are starting to realize post row how

865
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 5: bad the environment is for them, especially they can pointed

866
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 5: out young women. Probably another reason Tammy Duckworth and Patty

867
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 5: Murray jumped on this right away, because you know, Donald

868
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 5: Trump is saying one thing about IVF, but down ballot

869
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 5: candidates that can get really tough.

870
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 4: For them, right, And because the problems are many, it's

871
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 4: you know, it's not just money, it's also time.

872
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 3: You know, you're you're getting older every single month.

873
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 4: Yes, And one reason that they do you know, more

874
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 4: than the more than one is so that one takes, yes,

875
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 4: sometimes six take, and you know that could be fatal

876
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 4: for a woman trying to carry that. The other problem

877
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 4: comes with the Some of it is around genetics, like

878
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 4: there might be some genetic problems in the family that

879
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 4: would that would create practically an unviable pregnancy, and so

880
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 4: they can then create an embryo and genetically test and

881
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 4: make sure, okay, it did not get that gene and

882
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 4: so therefore, you know, we're not going to use this one,

883
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,959
Speaker 4: because that could you know, that just simply won't work.

884
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 4: Now you can imagine where you can get into some

885
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 4: ethical complications where then you start to do genetic engineering.

886
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 4: But that's not that's not what's going on, or or

887
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 4: or unless the government wants to come in and say,

888
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 4: like this is like we're gonna we're gonna dictate exactly

889
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 4: how this, how this goes down.

890
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 5: Uh.

891
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 4: And the point that she made about the painful nature

892
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 4: of it, I think is also important to underscore. For

893
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 4: some reason, the medical community, uh, when it comes to

894
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 4: women just can't figure out ways to do these procedures,

895
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 4: you know, without them being extraordinarily painful. And so every

896
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 4: time that a woman tries this and fails, they went

897
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 4: through all of that pain coupled within this hope, coupled

898
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 4: within the heartbreak of it not working, followed up by oh,

899
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 4: you're back in for this like excruciatingly painful process, something

900
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 4: that I imagined, like most men like would never be

901
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 4: able to even like remotely handle. And then Snell told, oh,

902
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,919
Speaker 4: you can only do one again, because the Republicans don't

903
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 4: want you to do.

904
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:12,919
Speaker 3: More than one.

905
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 4: You get your hopes up again, your heart breaks again,

906
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 4: you're back in the painful situation.

907
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,439
Speaker 5: And time, Like you said, you're back at square one,

908
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 5: but your a year further.

909
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 4: Ahead and lost one hundred thousand dollars to this now

910
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 4: and you finance that now.

911
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 5: What and the physical toll in your body?

912
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

913
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 5: Absolutely, no, I don't disagree with that at all. And

914
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 5: just it's what's happening to people, the uncertainty that people

915
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 5: in Alabama are dealing with right now. Like again MPR

916
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 5: profile of this woman who's fertilize embryos are in a clinic,

917
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 5: and you know, if you believe that that's life, that's human.

918
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 3: Life, it feels like kidnapping.

919
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,359
Speaker 4: Christopher Hitchins, I'm sure it feels a woman like that,

920
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 4: her kid, like her future children have been kidnapped.

921
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would commend to everybody. There was a great

922
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 5: Christopher Hitchins say that he wrote in two thousand and

923
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 5: three for Vanity Fair, just sort of talking about the

924
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 5: implications of technology and the left sort of idea about

925
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 5: when life does begin and the kind of difficult places

926
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 5: that I can take us, that that can take us to.

927
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,240
Speaker 5: These are questions that are worth thinking about. But it's

928
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 5: in Alabama right now. There are a lot of people

929
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 5: who are in dire straits and just desperately worried about

930
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:33,439
Speaker 5: these you know, these lives from my perspective at least

931
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 5: that and from their perspective. Again, the woman from NPR said,

932
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 5: those are it feels like a death in the family.

933
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 5: So it's yeah, it's awful and there needs to be

934
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 5: solutions to it. And the politics of this are absolutely

935
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 5: brutal for Republicans.

936
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 4: Let's talk about the ongoing ceasefire negotiations over in the

937
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 4: Middle East. President Biden kind of supplanted himself as one

938
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 4: of the most, if not the most hated presidents in

939
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 4: the Middle East by announcing that there was going to

940
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 4: be a ceasefire while licking an ice cream cone, an

941
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 4: image that will live in infamy for decades to come.

942
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 4: Worse still, it seems like it wasn't even true that

943
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 4: he may have been doing this on Monday, right before

944
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 4: Michigan was supposed to vote, to try to depress the

945
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 4: uncommitted vote. Is a thought almost kind of too cynical

946
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 4: to even contemplate. I'm going to tell myself that it

947
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 4: was just his addled mind that allowed him to kind

948
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 4: of lie about this, or his spokesperson John Kirby was

949
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 4: lying one or the other. Let's play John Kirby's response

950
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 4: to Biden's claim that he expected a ceasefire by this

951
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 4: coming Monday.

952
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 2: Just a full one.

953
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 13: We just previous questioned, though, we've learned, according to an

954
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 13: Israeli source, that Yaku was quite surprised by the President's

955
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 13: comments about his expectations that there would be a ceasefire

956
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 13: by Monday. So that doesn't vote a lot of optimism

957
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 13: that one of the key parties was surprised by that timeline.

958
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 13: The President said, so why did he say Monday?

959
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 14: I can't speak for the surprise that foreign leaders have

960
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,959
Speaker 14: or don't have regard to things that we're saying. The

961
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 14: President talked to y'all after staying completely up to speed,

962
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 14: and he has been kept up to speed on how

963
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 14: these negotiations are going, and he shared with you some context,

964
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 14: and he certainly shared with you his optimism that.

965
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 5: We can get there in hopefully a short order. Right.

966
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,399
Speaker 5: Can I just say how weird it is that he

967
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 5: felt the need to confirm that the President has stayed

968
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 5: quote completely up to speed on the negotiations.

969
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 4: That's a strange thing to say, and then lied if

970
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 4: that's what Kirby is saying. So, yeah, he was up

971
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 4: to speed on the negotiations, but then he said something

972
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,720
Speaker 4: that shocked the people who are actually engaged in the negotiations.

973
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 5: But it almost felt like a tell like, oh, like

974
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 5: they're we're keeping them in the loop. Yeah, it's weird.

975
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 4: So Matt Miller over the State Department was also asked

976
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 4: about this.

977
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 3: Let's roll his response.

978
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 15: Back up the assertion that you just made in response

979
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 15: to one of the questions that we're closer today than

980
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 15: we were yesterday.

981
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 16: Just that we continue negotiations and I can't Unfortunately.

982
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 15: What.

983
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 3: They haven't broken down is that why.

984
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 16: We I am so I can't really answer that without

985
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 16: getting into the underlying substance of the negotiations. But the

986
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 16: talks continue and we think we continue to make progress.

987
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 16: But I'm well, you said we think we continue to

988
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 16: make progress. That's that is the basis of my state.

989
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 3: That we are closer today than continuing.

990
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 16: Continuing to make progress.

991
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 3: There isn't anything you can give to us now, or

992
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: present to us or tell us that would actually back

993
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 3: up the idea that I that I cease fire slash.

994
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 4: Hot, I it is closer today than it was yesterday.

995
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 16: I can never show you definitive progress and talks that

996
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 16: by their very nature are secret.

997
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,240
Speaker 4: I mean, okay, I get the logical point he's making

998
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 4: that there's secret talks, he's not going to say anything

999
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 4: about them, and so therefore he can't back up what

1000
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 4: he's saying there. But the context is that the President

1001
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 4: of the United States just said that he expects to

1002
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 4: seize fire on a very specific time frame one week

1003
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 4: from the day that he said it, and then he

1004
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 4: had specifically said we're closer today than we were yesterday.

1005
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 3: So those are very reasonable questions.

1006
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 4: Okay, great, why like he tells anything, because we're hearing

1007
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 4: from sources in Helmas and from sources in the Israeli

1008
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 4: government that they're.

1009
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 3: Not very close at all.

1010
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 4: Katari's too, and they're saying there's not remotely close.

1011
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 3: So anyway, there you go. That's what the American government

1012
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 3: is going to share with us.

1013
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 5: And again that's why I think it's really noteworthy that

1014
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 5: Kirby said the President has been quote up to speed,

1015
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 5: kept up to speed in the negotiations, because it actually

1016
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 5: seems like Biden and I know this is fraud, but

1017
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 5: it seems like Biden might not have been up to speed.

1018
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 5: And so when they say that he's been kept up

1019
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 5: to speed, that's sort of the tell. They're like projecting

1020
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 5: what they want to the opposite of what the truth is,

1021
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 5: to say he's he's totally up to speed. Maybe he's

1022
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 5: not up to speed because he's not lucid enough to

1023
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 5: be a significant part of these negotiations.

1024
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, Unfortunately, everything we keep hearing is that he is,

1025
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 4: that Biden is driving this policy.

1026
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 5: Or Biden's lieutenants understand the Biden policy well enough to

1027
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 5: drive it for him.

1028
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 3: I would I don't know you would?

1029
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 4: You would hope that, I mean, And maybe that represents

1030
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 4: a lack of lucidity, that that Biden is just so

1031
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 4: kind of locked into his ideological, unconditioned Israel that he's

1032
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 4: unable to absorb new inputs.

1033
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 5: Even when people are seeing like this five alarm fire

1034
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 5: in Michigan, Like you have to, you have to start

1035
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 5: reconciling your mister two state solution decade, a two state

1036
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 5: solution with what Natanyahu is doing as mister one state solution.

1037
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 4: It's wrecking you and he's not He's changing nothing, Like

1038
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 4: he went on Seth Myers the other day, right and

1039
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 4: Myers presses him on this. Myers, who's Jewish American by

1040
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 4: the way, Biden responds by saying, I'm a Zionist.

1041
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 3: You don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist.

1042
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 4: And I believe that no Jew in the world is

1043
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 4: safe without Israel. Talking to a Jewish American like telling

1044
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 4: him that he's incapable of keeping Seth Meyers safe in

1045
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 4: his own country.

1046
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 3: What a failure on his part.

1047
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 4: If that's true, If there are so many Nazis running

1048
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 4: rampant in this country, then go do your job and

1049
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 4: make this country safe for everyone. The idea that you

1050
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 4: can outsource your job as American president to keep all

1051
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,800
Speaker 4: Americans safe by saying, well, we've got some other country.

1052
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 4: Can you imagine if he said, no, no Nigerian is

1053
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 4: safe here in the United States, it's without Nigeria.

1054
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 3: They'd be like, uh, well, how about.

1055
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 4: Uh, you keep the Nigerians in the United States safe.

1056
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 4: Now that's a nationality question rather than a religion question.

1057
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 3: Uh.

1058
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 4: But the entire premise of it is just so convoluted

1059
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 4: that this is.

1060
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 5: One of the other reasons that I read these leaks

1061
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,760
Speaker 5: in a different way coming from the right than people

1062
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 5: on the left, because I do think it's a frustration.

1063
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 5: We know that like Biden's own staff is kind of

1064
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 5: split on this, that there's some people that are hardcore

1065
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,879
Speaker 5: with him on that question of Zionism and the two

1066
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 5: state solution, when there are other people in the administration

1067
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 5: that are less comfortable with that. Karine Jean Pierre herself

1068
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 5: wrote an op ed about the problems with that. What

1069
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 5: was this like three years ago? I think it was

1070
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 5: a tough post. So, I mean, these these divides exist in.

1071
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 3: The Oh, it was the Newsweek.

1072
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 5: That's like, there you go, But actually we have another

1073
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 5: clip of Matt Miller getting press press on some of

1074
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 5: these problems for the administration. We can roll up there.

1075
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 15: Then now at least six document instances depicting members of

1076
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 15: the IDF displaying or rifling through women's underwear, and of

1077
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 15: course that's just on camera. Soldiers as we've seen stripped

1078
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 15: and tortured Palestinians. There have been a reported history of

1079
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 15: soldiers abusing children that they've detained even before October seventh,

1080
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 15: And of course, you know, invoicate investigations need to be pursued.

1081
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 3: It's still given.

1082
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 15: You know, although we've seen from Israeli forces. Just up

1083
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 15: to this point, what's the US government doing in response? Now,

1084
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 15: given the UN experts' alarm at credible allegations of human

1085
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 15: rights violations and sexual violence committed against past it, we make.

1086
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 16: Clear to the governor of Israel that we expect them

1087
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 16: to behave consistent with the laws of war and consistent

1088
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 16: with their own rules of engagement. And we have seen

1089
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 16: the Israeli military come out and say it is conducting

1090
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 16: its own investigations into reports of soldiers who have failed

1091
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 16: to comply with either of those two sets of rules.

1092
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 16: And that's appropriate, and that's what you expect to professional

1093
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 16: military to do. And we expect those investigations to proceed

1094
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 16: and if appropriate, hold the the responsible parties accountable.

1095
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is this is in response to the

1096
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 4: new TikTok trend among IDF soldiers. Uh to kind of

1097
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 4: steal lingerie and other other garments. Palestinian women canes uh

1098
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 4: one one guy curled up in a crib uh and

1099
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 4: and put that on on TikTok. No nobody knows, uh,

1100
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 4: you know where that child is? Is that has that

1101
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 4: child been killed by the I d F H Is

1102
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 4: that child starving? Is that Obviously the child is it

1103
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 4: has has been pushed out of his or her home

1104
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 4: because the soldier is now like, you know, having a

1105
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 4: good time, like sleeping in the kids in the kid's crib.

1106
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 3: Uh.

1107
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 4: The one though, correction that I would make to Miller's

1108
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 4: point here he says that you know, we expect uh

1109
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 4: the Israelis to abide by international law. The US government

1110
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 4: actually has given Israel until middle of March to sign

1111
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 4: a document saying that they will abide by international law

1112
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 4: in order to continue to receive American weapons. The irony

1113
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 4: is that within the US government that represents a victory

1114
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 4: for the people who have been pushing for some sort

1115
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 4: of accountability and some sort of reckoning with the human

1116
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 4: rights abuses that Israel's committing with American weapons. But it

1117
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 4: also puts on display a rather glaring problem, which is

1118
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 4: at wait a minute, you're giving them until the middle

1119
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 4: of March to follow the law, and in.

1120
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 5: The meantime insane and in the meantime saying, you know,

1121
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 5: we expect our partners in Israel, Right.

1122
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 4: You've been saying that you expect them to follow Why

1123
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 4: do you expect them to follow it? If it's going

1124
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 4: to take them until the middle of March, even to

1125
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 4: decide whether or not they're going to put their signature

1126
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:49,439
Speaker 4: on a meaningless document asserting that they're going to follow

1127
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 4: the law when they haven't been following the law for

1128
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 4: months and years.

1129
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 5: Actually, yeah, absolutely, let's put this next element up on

1130
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 5: the screen, just to wrap up this block. A Reuter's

1131
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 5: report inside the Democratic rebellion against Biden over the Gaza war.

1132
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 5: We covered earlier in the show today, Ryan, what happened

1133
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 5: in Michigan last night, which you know, I think really

1134
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 5: was worse than what the Biden administration even expected. If

1135
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 5: you put the protest vote together, you're somewhere near twenty

1136
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 5: percent of voters coming out against Biden. He lost or

1137
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 5: him tire. He won Michigan in twenty twenty by one

1138
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty five thousand votes. The protest vote itself

1139
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 5: was around one hundred and twenty two thousand, one hundred

1140
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 5: and forty something thousand votes just last night in a

1141
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 5: low turnout primary for Joe Biden. We played Debbie Dingle

1142
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 5: early in the show saying this was even ipsilante. It

1143
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 5: wasn't just dearborn. This is kind of across the board

1144
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 5: in places where you know, there are concentrations of young voters,

1145
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 5: ever American voters and people across the border concerned about

1146
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 5: this issue for Joe Biden, and that may translate into

1147
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 5: how people vote. It does seem and according to this

1148
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 5: Reuters report, people were caught off guard in the White House.

1149
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 4: That might be the most shocking part, Like, what do

1150
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 4: you mean you were caught off right? The Reuter's report

1151
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 4: tells us that the Biden campaign really did believe that

1152
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 4: this was isolated to Arab and or Muslim voters, and

1153
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 4: that once the campaign really heated up and the contest

1154
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 4: was between Biden and Trump, that it would fade as

1155
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 4: a concern like that was the that was according to

1156
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 4: this article, the actual belief of grown people who looked

1157
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 4: at this situation, analyzed it and came to a conclusion

1158
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 4: that is rather shocking.

1159
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it seems like at the very least they

1160
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 5: would be aware. You know, you can, you can prosecute

1161
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 5: your policy, but to have the blind spot about what

1162
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 5: this is doing is somewhat shocking.

1163
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you would say, look, we're happy to lose

1164
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 4: over this. If they want to say that, okay, that's

1165
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:03,479
Speaker 4: an immortally principled position, right, but to say we're going

1166
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 4: to engage in this and people are going to forget

1167
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 4: about it because Trump is so out of touch right

1168
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 4: that it is genuinely shocking.

1169
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 5: But this is where, actually, and that's an interesting point,

1170
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 5: This is where democrats and especially establishment democrats, laser focused

1171
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 5: on Donald Trump since twenty sixteen, a guy who is

1172
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 5: super polarizing and absolutely will get them votes in battleground

1173
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 5: states that are critical to winning reelection, there's no question

1174
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 5: about it. But if you just bank on that without

1175
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 5: also advancing an agenda that people a lot of other

1176
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 5: people feel because on the margins, if you lose other people,

1177
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 5: the marginal math against Donald Trump doesn't work. So you

1178
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 5: can't do one and not the other. You can't just

1179
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 5: say Donald Trump is so toxic that as much as

1180
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 5: we talk about him, so long as it's a binary

1181
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 5: choice between a Democrat Joe Biden and Donald Trump, a

1182
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 5: binary choice between Amy Klobahar or Pete booda judge and

1183
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 5: Donald Trump, or Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. As long

1184
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 5: as we have that binary choice, we can do what

1185
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 5: we want policy wise, that's just stupid.

1186
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know what Biden might still win, which

1187
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 4: is the craziest thing on the planet.

1188
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,439
Speaker 5: He might well again, I mean, like, the binary choice

1189
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 5: is not good for Republicans.

1190
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 4: They're not wrong abouts is the more accurate way to

1191
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 4: put it.

1192
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 5: They're not wrong about that. It is not helpful to

1193
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 5: Republicans to have the binary choice on the national level.

1194
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:30,960
Speaker 5: Even though we talked earlier and show about Trump making

1195
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 5: gains with certain demo blocks that are helpful to Republicans,

1196
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 5: it's still, you know, the binary choice isn't.

1197
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 4: Great for Surely, if bind wins and he's still president

1198
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty eight, he would leave in twenty twenty nine.

1199
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 3: January twenty twenty nine.

1200
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 5: I congenuinely not imagine Joe Biden in.

1201
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty is going to be something to say.

1202
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 5: Actually, Ryan, something the White House might want to take

1203
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 5: a look at is this video of students for Justice

1204
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 5: in Palestine at the University of Texas and Dallas doing

1205
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 5: some work. Here a top executive of Lockheed Martin, let's

1206
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 5: watch it right now.

1207
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 17: That you have a very cussive resume during eighteen years

1208
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 17: that you spent working on the fey two jets, in

1209
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 17: the year six that you work on the F thirty five.

1210
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 17: If you were to give an estimate, how many children

1211
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 17: do you think you've killed?

1212
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 3: I didn't even have answer that question.

1213
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 17: We're wanting to the job, thank.

1214
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 8: You, Hey Buss. As a business major, company culture is

1215
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 8: a factor of looking franticships, especially at a project manager

1216
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 8: position where you can spend most of your time working

1217
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 8: with others. What can you share about company culture and

1218
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 8: working with a team of genocide supporters and murderers.

1219
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 11: That's an I'm.

1220
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 3: That's an answer because that's not who I work with.

1221
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 18: And I'm just wondering, as let's say, an intern working

1222
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 18: on as a systems engineer or a software engineer.

1223
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 3: I don't know if.

1224
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 18: You'll be able to speak on this, but would you

1225
01:04:56,200 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 18: be working on a small part of those systems you're

1226
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 18: working on projects with business impact? Would I be kind

1227
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 18: of like a small little side project, or would I

1228
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 18: be able to directly contribute to the murder of posting

1229
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 18: and children?

1230
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 5: That was a really well done protest. Having dealt with

1231
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 5: these types of protests significantly, that's one of the most

1232
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 5: well done that I've seen. Subtle, but stinging, unstoppable.

1233
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 4: It forces you to think about the implications of the

1234
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 4: work that you're doing. You know you know, and you

1235
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 4: know what, there are a lot of good people working

1236
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 4: for companies that are doing horrible things.

1237
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 3: The United States of.

1238
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 4: America has wrought so much. You know, the number of

1239
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 4: people at US has killed since the Global War on

1240
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 4: Terror was launched is well into the millions. And you

1241
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 4: don't do that without the backing of basically the entire

1242
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 4: kind of industrial base. And so it's very hard not

1243
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 4: to be complicit in it. Some people are more complicit

1244
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 4: than others. If you're a software engineer on an F

1245
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 4: twenty two, now, you may you may have gone to.

1246
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 3: Work for the working hoping that you're working on.

1247
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 4: A seven forty seven, just trying, just trying to get

1248
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:16,479
Speaker 4: people from one place to another, and then you wind

1249
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 4: up working for an F twenty two, and you hope

1250
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 4: that that F twenty two is going to do some

1251
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 4: type of Tom Cruise. I was just going to saying

1252
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 4: that just taking out an unnamed country's evil system, unnamed

1253
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 4: evil system, and just making the.

1254
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 3: World a better place. You find out that.

1255
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 4: In real life you're just you're just blaying children against

1256
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 4: the walls, the crumbling walls of Gaza top Gun.

1257
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 5: Like many many movies made with significant Pentagon.

1258
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 4: Yes, unable to be make, unable to be made without

1259
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 4: the Pentagon's cooperation and support.

1260
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 5: And to Debbie Dingle's point, and to your point, that

1261
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 5: was at the University of Texas in Dallas. This is

1262
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 5: not just dearborn as people in the White House might want.

1263
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 3: To think of us.

1264
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 5: All right, let's move on to John Stewart, who Ryan

1265
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 5: hosts a debate with your colleague Murtizza Hussein and who

1266
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 5: is a Rosenberg was on it, and but Johnspert basically

1267
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 5: covered this issue more broadly on his show, zeroed in

1268
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 5: on that yeah, yeah, in a way that really seemed

1269
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 5: to resonate with a lot of people. Let's roll one

1270
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 5: clip of that here.

1271
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 19: Dear God, if you insist on this plan, if you

1272
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 19: think that ends hamas, I believe, we in the United

1273
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 19: States have a banner you can use. It's a little

1274
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 19: wind damaged, but equally delusional. Look, the United States is

1275
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 19: Israel's closest ally, Israel's big brother in the Fraternity of Nations,

1276
01:07:54,720 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 19: Israel's work emergency contact. Maybe it's time for the US

1277
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:06,280
Speaker 19: to give Israel some tough moral love.

1278
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 3: This is shameful. There has to be accountability for these

1279
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 3: war crimes.

1280
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 4: No targeting civilians in war, stop the war crimes and

1281
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 4: the atrocities, and end.

1282
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 5: The war today. It could happen right now, right now,

1283
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 5: thank you.

1284
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 4: These atrocities.

1285
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:31,759
Speaker 19: So I'm being told the administration was talking about Russia

1286
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 19: bombing Ukraine. I apologize, also a war crime. But I'm

1287
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 19: sure they're giving equally stern advice to Israel.

1288
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:43,839
Speaker 4: The Bide administration is urging Israel to be much more careful,

1289
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:44,879
Speaker 4: to be more cautious.

1290
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 3: How Israel does this matters. Israel must do more to

1291
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 3: protect innocent civilians.

1292
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 16: We want to see the government of Israel take steps

1293
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 16: to minimize civilian harm.

1294
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 5: Be more surgical and more precise and more careful.

1295
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 20: Hey, Israel, could you please.

1296
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 3: Be more careful with your bombing.

1297
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:10,640
Speaker 20: It's good advice, but really couldn't The United States have

1298
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 20: told Israel that when we gave.

1299
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 3: Them all the bombs where there are bombs.

1300
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 20: This is like your coke dealer coming in with an

1301
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 20: eight ball and going, don't.

1302
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 3: Stay up all night.

1303
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 20: Don't sleep is very important.

1304
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 3: You gotta sleep.

1305
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 4: So the problem funny good stuff biting like this is

1306
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:37,839
Speaker 4: this is the John Stewart that we love. The problem

1307
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 4: I had with this is that when he came out

1308
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 4: later and hosts this debate between your Rosenberg and Moz

1309
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 4: Hussein Moz and people should go watch the whole thing.

1310
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:51,600
Speaker 3: It was among the most kind of obtuse and.

1311
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 4: Dens I've seen John Stewart really in an interview, Moz

1312
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,679
Speaker 4: was making the point that the US should either be

1313
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 4: a faar broker between the Palestinians and the Israelis and

1314
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 4: actually get, you know, towards peace, rather than what they're

1315
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,639
Speaker 4: doing now, which is basically unconditional support for one side

1316
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 4: and not even talking to the other side except some

1317
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 4: of boss figures who are not remotely creditable among Palestinians.

1318
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 3: So we're just we're not engaged.

1319
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 4: In any kind of fair serious way leading to any

1320
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 4: he said, so either do it fairly, which we're not

1321
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 4: going to do, or step aside get out. And Maz's

1322
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 4: argument is that if the United States kind of withdraws

1323
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 4: its blank check, withdraws its unconditional support for Israel, that

1324
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 4: could actually help Israel. That would enable Israel's need to

1325
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:49,160
Speaker 4: compromise with its neighbors, rather than enabling its worst impulses,

1326
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 4: which are never to compromise and continuing to annext create

1327
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 4: more settlements, more conflict, manage the conflict so that you

1328
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 4: can appease the kind of far right which wants complete

1329
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 4: control of the West Bank, the far far right, the

1330
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:08,720
Speaker 4: one's complete control of Godza Strip. Although that you know

1331
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 4: that that element is now creeping well across the entire

1332
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 4: Israeli spectrum on this the heat of this, of this moment,

1333
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 4: with the US offering unconditional support, that political element within

1334
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 4: israel Is is kind of buttressed and is able to

1335
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,720
Speaker 4: then push aside any elements that say, no, why don't

1336
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 4: we why don't we compromise, because you know, we we

1337
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 4: live here, like we're going to have to live with

1338
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 4: these with with these neighbors for hundreds and thousands of years.

1339
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 4: So let's let's find a solution here. You don't need

1340
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:39,519
Speaker 4: a solution that the US is going to support you.

1341
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 4: So mazariment was US backs away, then they're forced into

1342
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 4: actually doing some sort of compromise here.

1343
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 3: Uh.

1344
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 4: John Stewart and Yeerra's response to that was to kind

1345
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 4: of make these dumb, you know, stale twenty year old

1346
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 4: jokes about how the United States can't wave a magic

1347
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:01,599
Speaker 4: wand and influence world affairs everywhere in the world they

1348
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 4: never address his very specific point about why in fact

1349
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:10,680
Speaker 4: they could, which is beside the point that all of

1350
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 4: the kind of money and weapons that we're giving are

1351
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 4: making the entire thing possible. Like we talk about a

1352
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 4: magic wand we're not giving them magic wands. We're giving

1353
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 4: them exploding wands all the time, and they keep dropping

1354
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 4: them on people, and that is the thing that is

1355
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 4: driving them forward. At the same day that this was happening,

1356
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 4: Bibi and Yahoo posted a statement bragging about a completely

1357
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 4: absurd Mark Penn Harris X. You know that, like he's

1358
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 4: the last guy on earth who actually thinks Mark Penn

1359
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 4: is doing like real credible polls.

1360
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 3: But so Mark Penn posted post of this poll.

1361
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, just the worst person on the planet objectively speaking.

1362
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,719
Speaker 5: And so I want to see your worst people. Actually,

1363
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 5: that would be a fun.

1364
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 4: There's good Mark Penn stuff, and I think most of

1365
01:12:58,360 --> 01:12:58,879
Speaker 4: my books.

1366
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 3: But anyway, so the poll that.

1367
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 4: Mark Penn claimed to have come up with said that

1368
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 4: the American people are actually more supportive of Israel than

1369
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:11,919
Speaker 4: they are of the Palestinians. American public opinion is strongly

1370
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:13,879
Speaker 4: against this war and strongly for a ceasefire.

1371
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 3: So but set that aside, pretend it's true.

1372
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 4: Netanyah who pointed at this poll and said, look, this

1373
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:22,599
Speaker 4: is a result of my pr campaign that I've been

1374
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:25,599
Speaker 4: doing in the United States. I have gotten the US

1375
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:30,400
Speaker 4: public support for this war effort. That US public support

1376
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:35,519
Speaker 4: will enable us to continue this war until complete victory.

1377
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,920
Speaker 4: That's what he's telling the Israeli public. So if net

1378
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,799
Speaker 4: Yahoo believes that American support is essential and American public

1379
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 4: opinion is essential to continuing the war, why do John

1380
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 4: Stewart and Naria Rosenberg think that he's wrong about that? Like,

1381
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 4: why does he think that the US actually doesn't have

1382
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 4: that much influence. So that's what bothered me about the

1383
01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 4: kind of contradiction between his good monologue and you know,

1384
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 4: effectively pointing out the way that the US is enabling

1385
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 4: war crimes at one place and condemning them another place.

1386
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,440
Speaker 4: But then when it comes to having the actual conversation,

1387
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 4: he just felt ub to us about the whole thing.

1388
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 5: I've always found John Stewart to be inflexible in debate.

1389
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 5: I think it's his weakness, Whereas, like when he can

1390
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 5: write or work on a really clever scripted monologue, his

1391
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 5: more biding and I think his arguments are more finely

1392
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:34,400
Speaker 5: honed or finally tuned. But in debates, you know, actually,

1393
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:37,599
Speaker 5: speaking of which, Tucker Carlson just yesterday went on Lex

1394
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:40,639
Speaker 5: Friedman show or the interview dropped yesterday, and Tucker Carlson said,

1395
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 5: John Stewart was right in that infamous Crossfire interview. It

1396
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 5: was one of the there's a super interesting interview that

1397
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 5: Tucker do with Lex Friedman. But it was one point

1398
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 5: that Tucker said, and I disagree with that actually, but

1399
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 5: it's one point Tucker said. You know, Crossfire was fundamentally

1400
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 5: toxic because it was just about Democrats versus Republicans. It

1401
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,920
Speaker 5: was this binary part is of binary DEM's Republicans, not

1402
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 5: so much even like left and right independent, it was

1403
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 5: just Dems and Republicans. And that was fundamentally harmful to

1404
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 5: the country. So John stew It was right. So maybe right,

1405
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 5: that's a moment where John Stewart thrived in debate. How

1406
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 5: did Maz find the experience of going on the show?

1407
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:21,719
Speaker 4: I think the he thought the questions were a little

1408
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 4: bit not well pointed, I'd say, and if you and

1409
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:27,839
Speaker 4: if you go, I think you should go watch the interview.

1410
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 4: You see him, You see that Stuart's questions, You're like,

1411
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 4: how do you even answer that? Like, what is what

1412
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 4: kind of question is this? It wasn't it? Almost It

1413
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 4: almost felt like John Stewart was pretty nervous and was

1414
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 4: kind of retreating.

1415
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 3: To more comfortable tropes. It's a hard thing to do,

1416
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 3: oh for sure. Yeah.

1417
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:48,200
Speaker 4: I mean, you know when when I go on let's say,

1418
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 4: like CNN or something and I'm and I'm asked to

1419
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 4: talk about like the most sensitive stuff, like I get

1420
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:54,799
Speaker 4: a little nervous.

1421
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:56,760
Speaker 3: I'm like, am I going to say the wrong thing here?

1422
01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 4: Like I don't blame him for that for some reason,

1423
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 4: I'm not nervous here, even though these clips also go

1424
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 4: out to the world.

1425
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 5: Sure do. Sometimes we don't know what that's about media.

1426
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 4: The other dirty secret, by the way, to back up

1427
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 4: what Tucker said about John Stewart being right, is that

1428
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 4: most people in media, and I bet you would bet

1429
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 4: you this is your experience too, most people in media

1430
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 4: who participate in that circus think that it's a sham

1431
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 4: and and think that it's actually bad for the country

1432
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 4: and are frustrated. Like you know, I used to be

1433
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:33,879
Speaker 4: an MSNBC contributor back in the mid twenty.

1434
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 3: Tens, and it was. It was frustrating.

1435
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:39,639
Speaker 4: You'd get on and you'd have like forty five seconds, Yeah,

1436
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:41,280
Speaker 4: do an answer, and then you'd have another forty five

1437
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 4: seconds to do another answer, and then and then like

1438
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 4: that's it. Yeah, like this is so so much more Now,

1439
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 4: forty five seconds is better than none.

1440
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:49,080
Speaker 3: So that's why I do it.

1441
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 4: But I prefer this format much much better, where we

1442
01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:54,760
Speaker 4: can just go on and on and on and never

1443
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 4: shut up.

1444
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 5: Although sometimes we have you know, people guests in studio

1445
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 5: like we have right now that we're going to.

1446
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:03,479
Speaker 3: Get to we got to shut up and bring them in.

1447
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:06,639
Speaker 5: But yes, no, it's super interesting, and I look forward

1448
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 5: to watching the full debate because I mean, even if

1449
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 5: Stuart's questions were lacking, hosting a debate in that format,

1450
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:15,639
Speaker 5: that's why I disagree and cross from fire, I think

1451
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 5: that's fundamentally a good thing. So I look forward to

1452
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 5: watching it.

1453
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 3: Let's talk government shutdown.

1454
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 4: All right, So we are just two days away from

1455
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 4: a Friday government shutdown of twenty percent of the government

1456
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 4: if we don't reach a deal, and spoiler, it does

1457
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 4: not look like we're going to reach a deal that.

1458
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 3: Does not make Mitch McConnell happy.

1459
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 4: Let's roll this clip from the Senate Republican leader.

1460
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 21: Good afternoon everyone. As you know, we were four of

1461
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:49,599
Speaker 21: us were at the White House with Presbent Biden earlier

1462
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 21: in the day, and I think it's pretty safe to

1463
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 21: say we all agree we need to avoid a government shutdown.

1464
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:00,400
Speaker 21: The Speaker was optimistic that they would be able to

1465
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 21: move forward first with the four bills, and under no

1466
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 21: circumstances does anybody want to shut the government down. So

1467
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:13,719
Speaker 21: I think we can stop that drama right here before

1468
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:15,760
Speaker 21: it emerges.

1469
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 3: We're simply not going to do that.

1470
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 21: So we're going to come close. I hope to have

1471
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:31,800
Speaker 21: an orderly appropriation process, obviously not by the time we

1472
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 21: should have done it, but better than we've done some

1473
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 21: years by getting this four through and then doing the

1474
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:41,800
Speaker 21: balance of them as a mini us.

1475
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:44,760
Speaker 4: A little bit later, a little more than ten years ago,

1476
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 4: Mitch McConnell pushed kind of was part of a government

1477
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:54,479
Speaker 4: shutdown that went absolutely terribly for Republicans, and when republic

1478
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:56,760
Speaker 4: when the kind of right flank of Republicans came back

1479
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:59,400
Speaker 4: shortly afterwards trying to shut the government down, he said,

1480
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 4: there's no education in the second kick of a mule.

1481
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:06,559
Speaker 4: Since then, he has been kicked by that mule over

1482
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 4: and over and over again, and there is no education

1483
01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:12,679
Speaker 4: in it. He's still of the mind that a government

1484
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 4: shut down is terrible for Republicans, and yet it still

1485
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 4: looks like he's going to get kicked.

1486
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 3: What's what's your.

1487
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 4: Read on poor miss McConnell and that mule.

1488
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:23,879
Speaker 5: First of all, speaking at a you could say tortoise

1489
01:19:24,040 --> 01:19:25,400
Speaker 5: like pace, just.

1490
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:27,760
Speaker 3: Glacially, So I hope everybody sped that one up.

1491
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:31,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was really something. Mitch McConnell's word is not

1492
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,240
Speaker 5: going to mean a whole lot on the House set anymore.

1493
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 5: And actually, even as became clear last month, on the

1494
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:40,839
Speaker 5: Senate side, it's starting to hold increasingly last water because

1495
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,840
Speaker 5: there's a mutiny brewing that is being led by people

1496
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 5: like Mike Lee, but also being joined by people like

1497
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 5: Tid Cruz others that have you know, been sort of

1498
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:52,479
Speaker 5: faithful McConnell deputies.

1499
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:55,439
Speaker 3: To you know, he led that shutdown I was talking about.

1500
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:57,719
Speaker 5: He did, he did, but in like the last.

1501
01:19:57,720 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 3: Went very well five years.

1502
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 5: Yes, it went great. That's what I was just going

1503
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:02,560
Speaker 5: to say. Actually, is you know, if you're talking to

1504
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 5: Chip Roy, who is leading the mutiny along Freedom coccus.

1505
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:10,800
Speaker 5: Republicans on the House side, they know that their constituents

1506
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:13,600
Speaker 5: want them to shut down the government. They will not

1507
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:17,559
Speaker 5: be punished in their districts for shutting down the government,

1508
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 5: but nationally, Republicans will certainly be punished for shutting down

1509
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:25,440
Speaker 5: the government. Chuck Schumer was in a meeting with Hakim Jeffreys,

1510
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 5: Mike Johnson, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden at the White House yesterday,

1511
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:33,760
Speaker 5: and yeah, the whole gang was there. So let's take

1512
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:36,600
Speaker 5: a little listen to what Chuck Schumer said outside the

1513
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:38,880
Speaker 5: White House after the meeting yesterday, and then we'll hear

1514
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:40,439
Speaker 5: from Mike Johnson as well. Here's Schumer.

1515
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:43,879
Speaker 22: So, what made this meeting one of the most intense

1516
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:47,640
Speaker 22: you've ever had? The urgency of supporting Ukraine and the

1517
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:52,639
Speaker 22: consequences to the people of America, to America's strength if

1518
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,640
Speaker 22: we don't do anything, and don't do anything soon. I

1519
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 22: was so, so shaken. But what I saw at the border,

1520
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:03,920
Speaker 22: I was strengthened by the strength of Zelenski and the

1521
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 22: Ukrainian people and the Ukrainian soldiers, but shaken that here

1522
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 22: they are fighting without arms against a brutal dictator who

1523
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:15,280
Speaker 22: will just do anything to kill them, and the intensity

1524
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:18,320
Speaker 22: in that room was surprising to me, but because of

1525
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:24,719
Speaker 22: the passion of the President, the Vice President, Leader, Leader Jeffreys, Speaker,

1526
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:26,520
Speaker 22: Leader McConnell, and myself.

1527
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 5: So he seemed to have a little Freudian slip there,

1528
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 5: and Chiprop Mitch mcc I'm sorry, Chuck Schumer seemed to

1529
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 5: have a little Freudians slipped there when he said the

1530
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:38,680
Speaker 5: urgency of supporting Ukraine, I was shaken by what I

1531
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:41,599
Speaker 5: saw at the border. Tip Roy jumped on that and said,

1532
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:45,400
Speaker 5: I think reasonably implied that Schumer was talking The only

1533
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 5: border he could have been talking about in that context

1534
01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:50,720
Speaker 5: is the Ukrainian border. That is a very tone deaf

1535
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:53,639
Speaker 5: way to defend this government shutdown. There's a much better

1536
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:56,679
Speaker 5: way for Democrats to defend to defend this government shutdown,

1537
01:21:56,920 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 5: Saying that you were shaken by what you saw at

1538
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 5: the Ukraine border is a out as bad as it

1539
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:05,200
Speaker 5: could get for Democrats messaging on this.

1540
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 4: This is their big issue right now. And Mitch McConnell too.

1541
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:13,160
Speaker 4: McConnell said that, you know ro connell privately in that meeting,

1542
01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:17,840
Speaker 4: but also publicly pressed Mike Johnson directly to say, look,

1543
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:22,960
Speaker 4: take our Israel, Taiwan and Ukraine funding bill up separately

1544
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,200
Speaker 4: and let your one hundred Republicans who support it and

1545
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:29,639
Speaker 4: the two hundred Democrats who support it kind of push

1546
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:32,559
Speaker 4: it through. But he's, you know, Mike Johnson's under intense

1547
01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:35,160
Speaker 4: pressure not to support it. You noticed that Chuck Schumer

1548
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:38,559
Speaker 4: was talking about all the people who were so passionate

1549
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:41,439
Speaker 4: and support of the Ukraine money there, and he briefly

1550
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:43,719
Speaker 4: said Speaker, and then he took that back because Speaker

1551
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 4: Johnson is the one who was not energetically supportive of that.

1552
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:51,160
Speaker 3: So this entire thing ends.

1553
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 4: Up kind of being caught up in the war, the

1554
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:57,760
Speaker 4: war spending as well as the fight around all the

1555
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:00,599
Speaker 4: government spending. If people are curious by the way, it's

1556
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 4: the agencies that would shut down would be agriculture, energy, transportation,

1557
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:11,200
Speaker 4: VA Veterans affairs a big one, and HUD which is

1558
01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 4: also a big one that you know, if if that's

1559
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:16,680
Speaker 4: shut down for like thirty days or so, then you know,

1560
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:19,559
Speaker 4: Section eight checks stop going out. Section eight checks stop

1561
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:22,719
Speaker 4: going out. All of the people that you know rely

1562
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 4: on either that housing or the or those checks. You know,

1563
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 4: those people are at significant you.

1564
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:30,560
Speaker 3: Know, hardship.

1565
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:33,360
Speaker 4: You know, all of it, all of it matters, but

1566
01:23:33,400 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 4: that you know, that's that's just one example of it.

1567
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:37,080
Speaker 3: I would believe it's what.

1568
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 4: March eighth, where the rest of the government would then

1569
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 4: shut down because this was speaking Mike Johnson's kind of

1570
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:46,479
Speaker 4: way to get out of hit the last jam that

1571
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 4: he was in.

1572
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:49,720
Speaker 3: He said, well, here's my solution. That's going to be

1573
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:50,400
Speaker 3: a two tier thing.

1574
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's like pixie dust that you throw up

1575
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 4: two tiers and you're like, oh, okay, well that sounds interesting.

1576
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:59,439
Speaker 4: Let's let's try that, knowing all the while that the

1577
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 4: the first here was just going to be blown through.

1578
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:04,680
Speaker 4: Yeah like that, this twenty percent is going down, but

1579
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:07,439
Speaker 4: the next one then is the Pentagon and you know,

1580
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:10,439
Speaker 4: the rest, the rest of the government. But yes, it's

1581
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 4: all tangled up with Israel, Ukraine and this money for

1582
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 4: a potential war in Taiwan, over China, over you know,

1583
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 4: Chinese you know, claims of sovereignty, et cetera like that.

1584
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 4: That one just kind of gets brushed aside. But that's

1585
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:26,240
Speaker 4: a that's a.

1586
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:27,479
Speaker 3: Big part of this as well.

1587
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, you've got Israeli officials who were saying we need

1588
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:32,320
Speaker 4: that money yesterday I think that was what Ron Dharmer,

1589
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:35,559
Speaker 4: Netanyahuo's kind of top lieutenant said.

1590
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:39,720
Speaker 3: So, yeah, it doesn't look like it's moving though.

1591
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 5: So Mike Johnson, she had truck shom, we're talking about

1592
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 5: the Ukrainian border, ostensibly talking about the Ukrainian border. Here's

1593
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:50,760
Speaker 5: what House Speaker Mike Johnson said when he came out

1594
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 5: of that meeting.

1595
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:53,559
Speaker 23: We believe that we can get to agreement on these

1596
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:56,040
Speaker 23: issues and prevent a government shut down, and that's our

1597
01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 23: first responsibility. You also heard, I'm sure that there was

1598
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:03,880
Speaker 23: discussion about the supplemental a spending package, and I was

1599
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:05,800
Speaker 23: very clear with the President and all those in the

1600
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 23: room that the House is actively pursuing and investigating all

1601
01:25:10,479 --> 01:25:13,680
Speaker 23: the various options on that and we will address that

1602
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:16,640
Speaker 23: in a timely manner. But again, the first priority of

1603
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:19,759
Speaker 23: the country is our border and making sure it's secure.

1604
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:23,559
Speaker 5: So ran a gallop pole that came out. I think

1605
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:27,160
Speaker 5: it was actually even just yesterday found immigration was the

1606
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:30,040
Speaker 5: issue the most important issue for people who are asked

1607
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:33,320
Speaker 5: in this gallop pole, what is the most important problem

1608
01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:35,800
Speaker 5: in the country right now? Twenty eight percent said immigration.

1609
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:39,200
Speaker 5: That was higher than any of the other options. Government, economy,

1610
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:42,280
Speaker 5: inflation immigration again twenty eight percent. That was an eight

1611
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 5: point jump from the month before. So and Trump and

1612
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 5: Biden are both actually on Tomorrow Thursday going to the border,

1613
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:52,040
Speaker 5: making trips to the border. So it makes it easier

1614
01:25:52,040 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 5: for Republicans to have that conversation. Obviously Democrats wanted and

1615
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:58,960
Speaker 5: Mitch McConnell actually allowed them to have that little talking

1616
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:00,839
Speaker 5: point when they worked out a build with James Langford

1617
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:02,880
Speaker 5: and said, here, we tried to fix the border. Republicans

1618
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:04,599
Speaker 5: rejected the plan to fix the border, and so then

1619
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 5: they put the Ukraine Israel spending by itself up for

1620
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:12,240
Speaker 5: House Republicans to vote up or down. House Republicans don't

1621
01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:15,280
Speaker 5: want to vote anything up or down unless it includes

1622
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:20,120
Speaker 5: border security. And their members are not worried about a

1623
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 5: shutdown because they don't think they're going to be punished

1624
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 5: in their districts on the House side for a government

1625
01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:28,200
Speaker 5: shut down. Obviously, their case is made easier when you

1626
01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 5: have Chuck Schumer talking about Ukraine. His biggest thing is

1627
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:36,559
Speaker 5: thinking about Ukraine at the same time, though they continue

1628
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:39,720
Speaker 5: to govern by a continuing resolution. I mean, this is

1629
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:42,439
Speaker 5: just a pathetic cycle that I think speaks ran too

1630
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 5: our inability to govern as a country period to keep

1631
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:49,599
Speaker 5: on funding the government by a continuing resolution. Mike Johnson, though,

1632
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 5: the reason that he's between a rock and a hard place.

1633
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:54,640
Speaker 5: As people remember, one of the most important parts of

1634
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:58,479
Speaker 5: the rules packaged that in the House was passed in

1635
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:01,880
Speaker 5: order for Mike John's and to become speaker. They out

1636
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:05,719
Speaker 5: to Kevin McCarthy. They couldn't land on any consensus speaker

1637
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:09,360
Speaker 5: candidate because their margins are so slim, and Mike Johnson

1638
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:12,120
Speaker 5: agreed to what's called the motion of a kate. And

1639
01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:14,880
Speaker 5: people have all become familiar with this little aspect of

1640
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:18,479
Speaker 5: parliamentary procedure in the last year because it's what allowed

1641
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:21,080
Speaker 5: Republicans to get rid of Kevin McCarthy. And he didn't

1642
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:22,439
Speaker 5: want the motion of a kate to be in the

1643
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:26,280
Speaker 5: rules package that after eighteen tries got him elected speaker.

1644
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:29,960
Speaker 5: It was it was his downfall. Then you have Mike

1645
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:33,120
Speaker 5: Johnson agreeing also to the motion of a kate. So

1646
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 5: basically one member, one member who's unhappy with this shutdown

1647
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 5: can bring a vote to the floor to vacate the chair.

1648
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:46,400
Speaker 3: So the Democrats couldn't save him at that format. Democrats,

1649
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:49,519
Speaker 3: actually they've floated that they might actually do. If he's

1650
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:51,400
Speaker 3: being helpful to them.

1651
01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:52,960
Speaker 5: They can get some stuff out of that. Although then

1652
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:56,080
Speaker 5: it becomes difficult for Democrats, and it becomes difficult for

1653
01:27:56,160 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 5: republic It becomes difficult for Freedom Caucus guys the moment

1654
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:03,639
Speaker 5: of their members. A rogue person says they.

1655
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 4: Have two hundred nineteen and you need to eighteen to

1656
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:06,879
Speaker 4: pass legislation.

1657
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 5: They lost George Santos. It's even a thinner, it's even

1658
01:28:11,040 --> 01:28:16,040
Speaker 5: a slimmer majority now. So that's why you know, Mike

1659
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:20,000
Speaker 5: Johnson is in a very difficult position. And Ryan, I

1660
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:22,439
Speaker 5: am hearing that Mike Johnson does continue to be a

1661
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:26,760
Speaker 5: real person as well, not a he's an actual lab created.

1662
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 4: Mike Mike Johnson five years from now. If you ask

1663
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 4: me who the speaker was for the brief period, Mike Johnson,

1664
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:36,200
Speaker 4: I'll be like Mark Thompson like.

1665
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:38,519
Speaker 3: Something.

1666
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:40,639
Speaker 4: And when you're like, when somebody's like, no, I think

1667
01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:42,720
Speaker 4: they have Google, it was Mike Johnson, like A, that's right,

1668
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:43,559
Speaker 4: it was Mike Johnson.

1669
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:46,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, But we do like that's one of the duties

1670
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:48,920
Speaker 5: that we take seriously is continue to update the viewers

1671
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:51,160
Speaker 5: on whether Mike Johnson continues to exist as a real

1672
01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:51,599
Speaker 5: human being.

1673
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:56,479
Speaker 4: And my read on why we were likely it seems

1674
01:28:56,479 --> 01:28:59,280
Speaker 4: like to potentially get a shutdown is that I think

1675
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 4: Biden would like to change the topic of conversation from

1676
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:09,120
Speaker 4: how his support unconditional support of the genocide Gaza is

1677
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:14,800
Speaker 4: costing him potentially the presidential election, to look how incompetent

1678
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:15,880
Speaker 4: these Republicans are.

1679
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 3: They're shutting down the government for no discernible reason.

1680
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, Democrats are just salivating over the possibility of being

1681
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:27,840
Speaker 4: able to say that again, and Republicans may just be

1682
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:31,040
Speaker 4: dysfunctional enough to allow them to go ahead and say it.

1683
01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:34,479
Speaker 4: So Democrats are going to do absolutely nothing to get

1684
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:37,920
Speaker 4: out of Republicans' way on this thing, Like they're going

1685
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:41,120
Speaker 4: to make sure that Republicans have every opportunity to trip

1686
01:29:41,160 --> 01:29:42,719
Speaker 4: over their shoelaces yep.

1687
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:45,280
Speaker 5: And shut down politics if you're the one that's in

1688
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:48,120
Speaker 5: the way. And you know, the media always puts Republicans

1689
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 5: as being the ones in the way, even when they

1690
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:53,839
Speaker 5: have a case that I think is popular with the public.

1691
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:56,240
Speaker 5: Immigration is certainly a case that's popular with the public.

1692
01:29:56,240 --> 01:30:00,360
Speaker 5: But even so, voters, even if they're not even paying

1693
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:04,760
Speaker 5: attention to the media, they see Republicans shut down DHS.

1694
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:07,640
Speaker 5: DHS is interesting because that's the border.

1695
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 4: It's that fundamental contradiction in your messaging that says, we're

1696
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:14,719
Speaker 4: so concerned about the way that the government is handling

1697
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:16,599
Speaker 4: the border that we're going to shut the government down.

1698
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:19,840
Speaker 4: And then and regular people that are like, don't think

1699
01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:21,559
Speaker 4: that's going to help things at the border.

1700
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:24,760
Speaker 5: Well, and also the media immediately will start talking about

1701
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:28,320
Speaker 5: the VA with good reason. So you are always going

1702
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 5: to you're as a Republican, you're always going to get

1703
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:32,240
Speaker 5: blamed for the government shutdown because the media is not

1704
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 5: going to be sympathetic to your cause. And also because

1705
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:38,439
Speaker 5: if you're the obstructionist, the public just reads obstruction as

1706
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 5: the blame. You can never have that nuanced discussion about

1707
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:47,479
Speaker 5: the negotiations that you've been having with leadership behind closed doors,

1708
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:52,800
Speaker 5: because those dynamics are complicated and like, actually, even when

1709
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:55,320
Speaker 5: you follow the dynamics closely, like if you read playbook

1710
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:59,599
Speaker 5: every morning, and you know whatever, even if you talk

1711
01:30:59,640 --> 01:31:02,080
Speaker 5: to people in those circles, sometimes you don't know what

1712
01:31:02,120 --> 01:31:05,200
Speaker 5: the truth is about what leader how much leadership actually

1713
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:07,639
Speaker 5: screwed you over? Did you screw leadership over who agreed

1714
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:10,599
Speaker 5: to what So that's just never really a winning argument

1715
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:12,880
Speaker 5: outside a district where you can say I'm doing this

1716
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:14,120
Speaker 5: to stick it to Mitch McConnell.

1717
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 3: Well, we'll say, gonna be interesting.

1718
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:20,000
Speaker 5: I don't know, Ryan, I feel like this one might

1719
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:21,120
Speaker 5: actually happen briefly.

1720
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:25,360
Speaker 4: So that's my so O the reason it wouldn't happen

1721
01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:27,720
Speaker 4: is there's so little upside for Republicans.

1722
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:29,720
Speaker 5: Well, the reason that it wouldn't happen is the same

1723
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:32,240
Speaker 5: reason I think it could happen. And that's what's complicated here,

1724
01:31:32,240 --> 01:31:34,840
Speaker 5: which is that they don't have any good options. So

1725
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:36,880
Speaker 5: that's why we've been funding the government via CR for

1726
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:38,519
Speaker 5: so long, is that they're just like, screw it. We're

1727
01:31:38,560 --> 01:31:41,519
Speaker 5: obviously not going to get a deal. So CR like

1728
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:44,560
Speaker 5: poison pill. You can have like your protest vote, but

1729
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:48,479
Speaker 5: that's it. There's no way that if we vacate the chair,

1730
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:51,080
Speaker 5: this goes to a place where we can fund the

1731
01:31:51,120 --> 01:31:53,840
Speaker 5: government because there's literally no deal to be made. And

1732
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:56,200
Speaker 5: so I think that's the best case that the shutdown

1733
01:31:56,280 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 5: doesn't happen, just because there's really nowhere to go afterwards.

1734
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:01,599
Speaker 5: But they feel like they've exhausted their options, they've vacated

1735
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:04,240
Speaker 5: the chair. They got mad over the debt ceiling negotiations

1736
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:07,719
Speaker 5: and they vacated the chair. And now they've pushed Johnson

1737
01:32:07,720 --> 01:32:09,200
Speaker 5: as far as they feel like they could push him.

1738
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:10,960
Speaker 5: So that's where you get a motion to vacate. But

1739
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 5: everyone knows even if you do that, it doesn't fund

1740
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:13,879
Speaker 5: the government.

1741
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:17,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, our entire two hundred plus year old system relies

1742
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:20,280
Speaker 4: really on consensus because of all the choke points that

1743
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:25,960
Speaker 4: are in it, and consensus is slowly breaking down. You know,

1744
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:29,400
Speaker 4: it peaked to say in the nineteen fifties with that monoculture.

1745
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:32,920
Speaker 4: We still have something of a monoculture around despite people

1746
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:36,120
Speaker 4: thinking that we're all just a bunch of divided, niche subcultures.

1747
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 4: But it's fraying, and the more it phrays, the more

1748
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:41,519
Speaker 4: we're going to have these kinds of problems. And I

1749
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:44,479
Speaker 4: think so the system's going to have to respond somehow

1750
01:32:44,560 --> 01:32:47,000
Speaker 4: because there's two built in idiotic things, which like when

1751
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:52,400
Speaker 4: you can't get consensus, there's a potential global financial crisis

1752
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:56,519
Speaker 4: over defaulting on the debt for no reason, and the

1753
01:32:56,560 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 4: government just shuts down and stops working and everybody goes

1754
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:00,800
Speaker 4: home and then comes back on month later and gets

1755
01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:02,639
Speaker 4: paid for things that they didn't do during that month,

1756
01:33:02,640 --> 01:33:05,639
Speaker 4: and in the meantime, lots of people suffered, and I feel.

1757
01:33:05,479 --> 01:33:06,880
Speaker 5: Like it solves nothing.

1758
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:09,360
Speaker 4: As the system continues to break down, they're going to

1759
01:33:09,439 --> 01:33:13,840
Speaker 4: have to be some kind of redundancies built in that say, like,

1760
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:17,679
Speaker 4: all right, if you don't get the consensus, you still

1761
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:19,920
Speaker 4: get section your Section eight check still goes to the

1762
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:24,559
Speaker 4: landlord or whatever. Like we're still paying these basic things

1763
01:33:24,560 --> 01:33:26,800
Speaker 4: at some basic level. And I think maybe at some

1764
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:32,680
Speaker 4: point lawmakers will produce that system because it's so irrational,

1765
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:35,559
Speaker 4: but we're certainly not there yet, and I think we

1766
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:39,040
Speaker 4: need some The system is going to need to create

1767
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:42,479
Speaker 4: a lot of pain for people before that eventually happens.

1768
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:45,880
Speaker 4: Whether it's this time or at a future time remains

1769
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:46,360
Speaker 4: to be seen.

1770
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:50,160
Speaker 5: It's like a Kissinger. Let's heighten the contradictions in Chile,

1771
01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:52,000
Speaker 5: make the economy scream, take a scream.

1772
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:53,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, then we'll get a revolution.

1773
01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:58,920
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, Well, we'll see what happens. By Friday, a

1774
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 5: lot on the line, and it's not looking good, So

1775
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:03,920
Speaker 5: we'll continue to follow that story for everyone. We have

1776
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 5: a great guest here in Studio Ryan. It would be

1777
01:34:06,439 --> 01:34:09,840
Speaker 5: Gabe shipton the filmmaker brother of Julianasange can't wait to

1778
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:10,840
Speaker 5: have a conversation with him.

1779
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:15,120
Speaker 3: I stick around for that, all right.

1780
01:34:15,120 --> 01:34:18,200
Speaker 4: We're joined now by Gabe Shipman, who's a filmmaker and

1781
01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:22,240
Speaker 4: also the brother of Julian Sange. Gabe, welcome back to

1782
01:34:22,280 --> 01:34:24,720
Speaker 4: the program. Thanks for joining us. Good to be with

1783
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:27,559
Speaker 4: you again. And so you're you're an Australian but you're

1784
01:34:27,560 --> 01:34:31,160
Speaker 4: hearing you're here in Washington, DC, kind of drumming up

1785
01:34:31,160 --> 01:34:34,120
Speaker 4: support for your brother in the wake of his most

1786
01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:38,120
Speaker 4: recent hearing, which we talked about last week on the program.

1787
01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:40,920
Speaker 4: We had Chip Gibbons on. People can go back and

1788
01:34:41,320 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 4: watch that interview if they want to. You saw him

1789
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:48,040
Speaker 4: at the hearing. I gather how was how was the

1790
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:51,360
Speaker 4: hearing from your perspective, this two day affair, this kind

1791
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:55,280
Speaker 4: of final battle before before the decision on extradition.

1792
01:34:56,720 --> 01:34:57,639
Speaker 3: My impression was.

1793
01:34:57,560 --> 01:35:02,559
Speaker 24: That the hard court judges were really feeling feeling the pressure.

1794
01:35:02,640 --> 01:35:06,439
Speaker 24: They were on their best behavior and trying to really

1795
01:35:06,479 --> 01:35:09,320
Speaker 24: engage with the arguments in a different way that I

1796
01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:14,439
Speaker 24: hadn't seen before. When Julian faces these British judges, usually

1797
01:35:14,439 --> 01:35:20,800
Speaker 24: they're very closed and very terse towards the defense, But

1798
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:25,519
Speaker 24: this time they were engaging with the arguments and also

1799
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:30,200
Speaker 24: engaging with the prosecution arguments, making statements like, oh so

1800
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:34,000
Speaker 24: if Julian is extradited, does that mean any journalists in

1801
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:37,840
Speaker 24: the UK could be extradited? And the prosecution essentially had

1802
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:42,400
Speaker 24: to answer yes. So, you know, the judges making these

1803
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:45,960
Speaker 24: sorts of points I found quite interesting in a different

1804
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:46,920
Speaker 24: vibe sense.

1805
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:50,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's huge, and I'm curious. Ryan mentioned you're here

1806
01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:53,880
Speaker 5: to drum up support for Julian's cause in DC. When

1807
01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:58,400
Speaker 5: you talk to maybe skeptical lawmakers or staffers, you're really

1808
01:35:58,439 --> 01:36:01,080
Speaker 5: putting a human face on this issue. But also, what

1809
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:03,519
Speaker 5: are the arguments you find that have you know, all

1810
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:05,840
Speaker 5: of the question of the last almost you know, years

1811
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:08,640
Speaker 5: and years, how that have been most persuasive? I mean

1812
01:36:08,680 --> 01:36:11,240
Speaker 5: you just mentioned the judge and the journalism question. That's

1813
01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:13,840
Speaker 5: a pretty persuasive one, especially to US journalists. But if

1814
01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:15,880
Speaker 5: you're talking to scap decks, and as you're talking maybe

1815
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:18,320
Speaker 5: even the next week to some scap decks, what's the

1816
01:36:18,360 --> 01:36:19,759
Speaker 5: most powerful argument you found?

1817
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:22,559
Speaker 24: Well, you know, it sort of changes. Everyone sort of

1818
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:25,400
Speaker 24: comes at this from their own you know, political perspective,

1819
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:29,040
Speaker 24: and you know, on the on the Democrat side, Press

1820
01:36:29,040 --> 01:36:32,599
Speaker 24: freedom resonates a lot with peoples, particularly exposing war crimes,

1821
01:36:33,479 --> 01:36:38,040
Speaker 24: you know, of the military industrial complex, you know, state criminality.

1822
01:36:39,479 --> 01:36:43,080
Speaker 24: Those sorts of arguments really resonate with the Democrat side,

1823
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:46,320
Speaker 24: and then you know, with the Republicans, it's always first Amendment,

1824
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:49,960
Speaker 24: you know, freedom of speech, first Amendment, first Amendment rights,

1825
01:36:50,560 --> 01:36:53,800
Speaker 24: and that argument carries a lot of weight, particularly with

1826
01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:59,519
Speaker 24: people like Rampaul, the libertarian leaning folks on the Hill.

1827
01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:02,280
Speaker 3: But there's a resolution Resolution.

1828
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:06,080
Speaker 24: One three four before in the in the Judiciary Committee,

1829
01:37:06,280 --> 01:37:10,440
Speaker 24: and we're asking lawmakers to sign on to that resolution.

1830
01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:16,280
Speaker 24: It's got cosponsors like Jim McGovern, Thomas Messi, and I

1831
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:18,479
Speaker 24: think they're about eight in total, and we'd like to

1832
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:19,320
Speaker 24: get to that to twenty.

1833
01:37:19,400 --> 01:37:22,400
Speaker 3: So that's my real I am, well, I'm in Washington.

1834
01:37:23,479 --> 01:37:27,479
Speaker 4: The twenty sixteen reporting that Juliana Sangje did has nothing

1835
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:31,280
Speaker 4: to do with these charges, like this is all you know,

1836
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:34,719
Speaker 4: Chelsea Manning related stuff about the you know, the.

1837
01:37:34,640 --> 01:37:37,240
Speaker 3: Cables collateral collateral murder.

1838
01:37:38,600 --> 01:37:42,519
Speaker 4: Yet Democrats still hold a huge grudge against your brother

1839
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:45,559
Speaker 4: for you know, the reporting he did on the on

1840
01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:49,479
Speaker 4: the DNC and Hillary Clinton in twenty sixteen. How often

1841
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 4: does that still come up now? Like, what's seven eight

1842
01:37:53,120 --> 01:37:57,360
Speaker 4: years later when you're talking to Democrats, is it does

1843
01:37:57,360 --> 01:37:58,320
Speaker 4: it go unspoken?

1844
01:37:58,640 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 3: Do you do it? Like?

1845
01:38:00,680 --> 01:38:04,320
Speaker 4: How do you how do you confront that political obstacle.

1846
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:06,520
Speaker 24: Yeah, that's a big one for Democrats, and we always

1847
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:09,639
Speaker 24: you know, we're always talking about what's actually at stake

1848
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:13,760
Speaker 24: and sort of reframing, reframing it in that sense, saying

1849
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:18,719
Speaker 24: that this is an unprecedent to espionage prosecution that could

1850
01:38:18,760 --> 01:38:22,599
Speaker 24: be turned against you know, democrat media in the future,

1851
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:24,360
Speaker 24: like the New York Times or the Washington Post.

1852
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:30,400
Speaker 3: Do they acknowledge it's democratic media? You? I mean, I

1853
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:31,920
Speaker 3: think it's pretty they get it.

1854
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:35,920
Speaker 24: Yeah, yeah, I think that it's pretty you know that

1855
01:38:35,960 --> 01:38:37,320
Speaker 24: they're they're sort of you know.

1856
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:39,880
Speaker 3: Cultural cultural allies.

1857
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:40,120
Speaker 14: Yeah.

1858
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:43,719
Speaker 24: Yeah, So I don't think anyone really denies that that's

1859
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:47,040
Speaker 24: the case. And having the New York Times actually writing

1860
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:49,479
Speaker 24: to President Biden, which they did, I think at the

1861
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:52,679
Speaker 24: end of twenty two, calling on him to drop the charges,

1862
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:57,559
Speaker 24: that really helps focus that argument because having them saying, hey, look,

1863
01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:00,679
Speaker 24: this is a threat to us. You know, when we're

1864
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:02,960
Speaker 24: approaching lawmakers, we say, well, you know, if there's a

1865
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:06,280
Speaker 24: Trump administration down the track, do you want them to

1866
01:39:06,320 --> 01:39:11,280
Speaker 24: have this president to potentially use against these other media organizations.

1867
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:16,360
Speaker 24: So I think sort of moving around that twenty sixteen

1868
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:18,720
Speaker 24: argument and really getting to you know, what's really at

1869
01:39:18,720 --> 01:39:24,320
Speaker 24: stake here and what this prosecution means for other media

1870
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:27,160
Speaker 24: around the place, I think, And also one other argument

1871
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:31,240
Speaker 24: that cuts through is that the global support now for Julian,

1872
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:35,560
Speaker 24: particularly with Australia that is one of the US's closest allies,

1873
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:44,759
Speaker 24: has making this prosecution very obviously scandalous around the world.

1874
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:48,240
Speaker 24: And really talking to lawmakers here about that how it's

1875
01:39:48,280 --> 01:39:53,120
Speaker 24: seen by allies or even not allies like China or Russia,

1876
01:39:53,120 --> 01:39:56,639
Speaker 24: who use it often when they're confronted with their human.

1877
01:39:56,520 --> 01:39:57,639
Speaker 3: Rights to do anything they want.

1878
01:39:57,640 --> 01:40:00,360
Speaker 4: Then with the press and just pointed, well, you guys

1879
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:01,920
Speaker 4: are trying to lock up Julian's.

1880
01:40:01,560 --> 01:40:03,599
Speaker 24: On yeah, exactly, So you are locking them all, yeah,

1881
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:06,439
Speaker 24: And so it reduces the US's standing when they want

1882
01:40:06,479 --> 01:40:09,559
Speaker 24: to advocate for human rights causes with these countries, but

1883
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:12,479
Speaker 24: also with their allies now such as Australia, And just

1884
01:40:12,760 --> 01:40:15,559
Speaker 24: a couple of weeks ago, the Australian Parliament put through

1885
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:19,800
Speaker 24: a resolution that passed the parliament. Over two thirds of

1886
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:23,360
Speaker 24: the parliament voted for it in favor of it, and

1887
01:40:23,360 --> 01:40:26,439
Speaker 24: that was calling on the United States to.

1888
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:27,120
Speaker 3: Let Julian go home.

1889
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:30,799
Speaker 24: So I think those these steps are really significant speaking

1890
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:33,479
Speaker 24: with lawmakers because there's not really an understanding of how

1891
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:36,559
Speaker 24: this affects the image internationally of the United States.

1892
01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:40,040
Speaker 5: And actually, again on the human level, your family has

1893
01:40:40,240 --> 01:40:43,479
Speaker 5: been very clear that you're worried about your brother's health

1894
01:40:43,520 --> 01:40:46,360
Speaker 5: and that his very life is on the line, and

1895
01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:48,479
Speaker 5: these legal proceedings. The other thing I wanted to add

1896
01:40:48,520 --> 01:40:51,080
Speaker 5: to that, I wanted to ask you any updates on

1897
01:40:51,200 --> 01:40:54,160
Speaker 5: Julian's health since the hearing, how he's doing, But also

1898
01:40:54,360 --> 01:40:57,000
Speaker 5: just how worried are you about a second Trump administration

1899
01:40:57,120 --> 01:40:59,800
Speaker 5: given that during the first Trump administration, I think it

1900
01:40:59,840 --> 01:41:04,160
Speaker 5: was Michael Issakaff reported in Yahoo that Mike Pompeo contemplated

1901
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:07,479
Speaker 5: an assassination plot against your brother. That has to be surreal.

1902
01:41:07,560 --> 01:41:09,880
Speaker 5: But where's your head when you think about how this

1903
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:12,719
Speaker 5: could where this could go in the coming years.

1904
01:41:13,120 --> 01:41:17,040
Speaker 24: Yeah, Well, if Mike Pompeo sort of ends up in

1905
01:41:17,080 --> 01:41:19,760
Speaker 24: this new and in a potentially new administration, I think

1906
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:22,840
Speaker 24: that's really worrying. Not just for Julian but for many,

1907
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:28,719
Speaker 24: many people. And yeah, those were very difficult times for Julian.

1908
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:33,400
Speaker 24: When you know, Pompeo called WikiLeaks and non state Hostile

1909
01:41:33,439 --> 01:41:37,800
Speaker 24: intelligence Agency, they were able to use clandestine operations with

1910
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:41,479
Speaker 24: our congressional oversight against Julian, against Wiki leaks. Then that's

1911
01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:44,560
Speaker 24: where we saw those plots to kidnap Julian and to

1912
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:49,400
Speaker 24: even kill him, and that's where this prosecution has come from.

1913
01:41:49,479 --> 01:41:52,840
Speaker 24: I think people need to understand that Pompeo was talking

1914
01:41:52,880 --> 01:41:56,040
Speaker 24: to the Justice Department and they said, well, what are

1915
01:41:56,040 --> 01:41:57,840
Speaker 24: you going to do with him once you kidnap him?

1916
01:41:58,040 --> 01:41:59,960
Speaker 24: You know, you can't just put him in a black site.

1917
01:42:00,760 --> 01:42:03,920
Speaker 24: Just wait and we'll get some charges ready and then

1918
01:42:03,960 --> 01:42:05,720
Speaker 24: you can take him from the embassy. So we can

1919
01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:09,639
Speaker 24: see the prosecution actually stemmed from this, you know, Pompeo

1920
01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:14,120
Speaker 24: going off the deep end and pursuing Wiki Leaks. So's

1921
01:42:14,439 --> 01:42:17,200
Speaker 24: it's really politically motivated, and I think that's a really

1922
01:42:17,240 --> 01:42:20,200
Speaker 24: good argument for the Biden administration to bring this to

1923
01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:24,480
Speaker 24: a close because it was a Pompeo fueled prosecution.

1924
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:29,200
Speaker 4: There's been reporting in Australia that there was some hope

1925
01:42:29,200 --> 01:42:31,200
Speaker 4: over the last several months of some pape of a

1926
01:42:31,240 --> 01:42:34,240
Speaker 4: deal because he is an Australian citizen, and what business

1927
01:42:34,280 --> 01:42:37,520
Speaker 4: is it of the United States. It's like be like Pakistan,

1928
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:40,880
Speaker 4: like extraditing me to Pakistan for violating Pakistan's media.

1929
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:41,799
Speaker 5: Don't give them ideas.

1930
01:42:42,280 --> 01:42:45,439
Speaker 4: I mean, it's I think it is a real problem

1931
01:42:45,479 --> 01:42:48,800
Speaker 4: going forward for journalists who write on things around the world.

1932
01:42:49,800 --> 01:42:53,600
Speaker 4: Carolyn Kennedy, who's our ambassador to Australia, and met with

1933
01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:57,160
Speaker 4: a bunch of Australian officials and there was some hope

1934
01:42:57,200 --> 01:42:59,960
Speaker 4: that there could be some deal that would come out

1935
01:43:00,160 --> 01:43:02,280
Speaker 4: of that where Australia would say, look, this is not

1936
01:43:02,360 --> 01:43:03,719
Speaker 4: your problem, this is our problem.

1937
01:43:03,720 --> 01:43:05,280
Speaker 3: He's our citizen. Let us handle this.

1938
01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:09,280
Speaker 4: Yet they seem to be pushing ahead with this attempt

1939
01:43:09,560 --> 01:43:12,479
Speaker 4: to extradate him. Here, what's your understanding of the latest

1940
01:43:12,520 --> 01:43:17,600
Speaker 4: in those talks between Australia, this real essential ally of

1941
01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:19,599
Speaker 4: the United States and the US.

1942
01:43:19,960 --> 01:43:23,280
Speaker 24: Well, we're always pushing the Australian government to do more,

1943
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:25,880
Speaker 24: and I think that's why this resolution that was passed

1944
01:43:25,880 --> 01:43:29,320
Speaker 24: through parliament is important because now the Prime Minister and

1945
01:43:29,479 --> 01:43:32,040
Speaker 24: the diplomats have the backing, you know, not just the

1946
01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:35,240
Speaker 24: Australian people who ninety percent want Julian to come home,

1947
01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:39,559
Speaker 24: but also the Australian Parliament. That's every single minister, Defense minister,

1948
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:44,200
Speaker 24: you know, Home Affairs minister, all the ministry cabinet have

1949
01:43:44,320 --> 01:43:47,840
Speaker 24: all voted to bring Julian home. So I think that's

1950
01:43:48,640 --> 01:43:51,760
Speaker 24: a real escalation, if you will, or like a next

1951
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:55,439
Speaker 24: step for the Australian government to push their allies, the

1952
01:43:55,560 --> 01:43:58,120
Speaker 24: US and the UK to bring this to an end.

1953
01:43:58,120 --> 01:44:02,280
Speaker 24: In terms of you know, these rumored deals, I think

1954
01:44:02,880 --> 01:44:04,880
Speaker 24: what would what would I'm not sure what a deal

1955
01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:07,680
Speaker 24: with you know, would you Julian pled guilty to journalism?

1956
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:11,080
Speaker 24: I think is is you know, is that is that

1957
01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:14,559
Speaker 24: a potential deal or outcome that that the Department of

1958
01:44:14,680 --> 01:44:17,840
Speaker 24: Justice would be happy with. I'm not sure, but I

1959
01:44:17,880 --> 01:44:21,880
Speaker 24: think any any sort of deal Julian. We know that

1960
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:26,080
Speaker 24: if Julian comes here that that he could potentially face

1961
01:44:26,240 --> 01:44:28,720
Speaker 24: a death penalty. That was part of the in the

1962
01:44:28,760 --> 01:44:32,639
Speaker 24: proceedings the judge us the prosecution could could you rule

1963
01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:35,880
Speaker 24: out death penalty if Julian's extradited and he could say no.

1964
01:44:36,080 --> 01:44:37,280
Speaker 24: He couldn't say yes.

1965
01:44:38,040 --> 01:44:41,360
Speaker 3: Why not? What's that? What's the capital crime? That espionage?

1966
01:44:41,400 --> 01:44:45,439
Speaker 24: Yes, so under the Espionage Act there is there's the

1967
01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:48,120
Speaker 24: room for the death penalty, so that the it is

1968
01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:51,200
Speaker 24: potential for it to be expanded. And you had the

1969
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:55,439
Speaker 24: Shulter sentencing just recently where they have an all of

1970
01:44:55,520 --> 01:45:00,439
Speaker 24: life sentence so no parole and bringing out under the

1971
01:45:00,520 --> 01:45:05,040
Speaker 24: terrorism under the Patriot Act, so there is potential for

1972
01:45:05,080 --> 01:45:08,400
Speaker 24: it to expand, for other charges to be brought against

1973
01:45:08,479 --> 01:45:13,120
Speaker 24: Julian for other publications like the Bolt seven twenty seventeen,

1974
01:45:13,320 --> 01:45:18,280
Speaker 24: THEIA leagues. So that's a real concern and any sort

1975
01:45:18,280 --> 01:45:21,719
Speaker 24: of deal, would you know, we would say Julian cannot

1976
01:45:21,760 --> 01:45:22,679
Speaker 24: travel to the US.

1977
01:45:22,920 --> 01:45:26,240
Speaker 5: So now before even going to the US, there are

1978
01:45:26,360 --> 01:45:29,120
Speaker 5: still there is still at least one other appeals process

1979
01:45:29,160 --> 01:45:31,120
Speaker 5: depending on how this curing goes. Could you talk to

1980
01:45:31,160 --> 01:45:33,120
Speaker 5: USCAPE just a little bit about what the options might

1981
01:45:33,160 --> 01:45:36,080
Speaker 5: be going forward to prevent the extradition.

1982
01:45:36,439 --> 01:45:39,719
Speaker 24: After the hearing, well, so Julian has so the judges

1983
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:43,360
Speaker 24: are now taken leave to make their decision on whether

1984
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:47,880
Speaker 24: they'll approve an appeal or reject an appeal. If that

1985
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:52,200
Speaker 24: appeal is rejected, Britain could move to extradite Julian quickly.

1986
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:56,840
Speaker 24: They will order the extradition but Julian could apply to

1987
01:45:56,840 --> 01:45:59,560
Speaker 24: the European Court of Human Rights to have an emergency

1988
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:03,200
Speaker 24: stop on that extradition and then put a case to

1989
01:46:03,240 --> 01:46:06,720
Speaker 24: the European courts. But that is you still have to

1990
01:46:06,760 --> 01:46:09,040
Speaker 24: make an application that still has to be approved. And

1991
01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:12,880
Speaker 24: I think there were sixty three applications in the previous

1992
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:16,439
Speaker 24: year for this sort of thing and only only one

1993
01:46:16,520 --> 01:46:18,400
Speaker 24: was approved by the European courts. So that is not

1994
01:46:18,439 --> 01:46:23,200
Speaker 24: a guarantee that it will stop stop his extradition. But interestingly,

1995
01:46:23,240 --> 01:46:28,040
Speaker 24: the European courts heard Agnes Klaman from Amnesty Internationals say

1996
01:46:28,960 --> 01:46:32,280
Speaker 24: just they had a briefing on the Hill on Monday,

1997
01:46:32,720 --> 01:46:35,639
Speaker 24: and she said the European courts were able to order

1998
01:46:35,720 --> 01:46:40,800
Speaker 24: Russia after Navalni was poisoned with the Navuchok that they

1999
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:43,879
Speaker 24: were able to order Russia to return him to Germany

2000
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:46,400
Speaker 24: for treatment. So that's the sort of power the European

2001
01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:50,000
Speaker 24: courts have. And I don't think the United States would

2002
01:46:50,080 --> 01:46:54,040
Speaker 24: want the European courts interfering and ordering the.

2003
01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:55,599
Speaker 3: UK to return Julian into Australia.

2004
01:46:55,640 --> 01:46:58,559
Speaker 24: I think that would be extremely embarrassing for the Department

2005
01:46:58,600 --> 01:46:59,800
Speaker 24: of Justice.

2006
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:02,280
Speaker 4: Of the key questions and the Appeals was whether or

2007
01:47:02,320 --> 01:47:06,080
Speaker 4: not Massage would be tortured by being placed in solitary

2008
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:09,639
Speaker 4: confinement here in the United States, and the US had

2009
01:47:09,680 --> 01:47:11,839
Speaker 4: made you know, after they realized that was a problem

2010
01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:14,880
Speaker 4: for them in their case, they made some representations that

2011
01:47:14,920 --> 01:47:18,280
Speaker 4: they said, well, we won't do that. Those representations included

2012
01:47:18,280 --> 01:47:20,320
Speaker 4: a clause that said unless we decide that we need

2013
01:47:20,360 --> 01:47:24,400
Speaker 4: to do that. So what was the reaction from the

2014
01:47:24,479 --> 01:47:28,960
Speaker 4: judges to how the US would treat Assange if he

2015
01:47:29,040 --> 01:47:31,160
Speaker 4: was extraight and how important is that at this point

2016
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:32,639
Speaker 4: in the decision making.

2017
01:47:33,439 --> 01:47:39,080
Speaker 24: So those weren't really going into a great deal in

2018
01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:42,160
Speaker 24: the court and didn't form a big part of Those

2019
01:47:42,160 --> 01:47:46,519
Speaker 24: assurances or so called assurances that are caveated, didn't form

2020
01:47:46,560 --> 01:47:51,000
Speaker 24: a large part of the hearing. It was really more

2021
01:47:51,000 --> 01:47:54,800
Speaker 24: about the political nature of the charges against Julian. There's

2022
01:47:54,840 --> 01:47:58,840
Speaker 24: a clause in the in the treaty with the United

2023
01:47:58,920 --> 01:48:02,280
Speaker 24: Kingdom and the US that says you cannot be extradited

2024
01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:07,160
Speaker 24: for political political charges, and espionage is inherently political. So

2025
01:48:07,200 --> 01:48:10,959
Speaker 24: there was a lot about that, But the prison conditions

2026
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:14,320
Speaker 24: that Julian would face didn't really come up. It was

2027
01:48:14,360 --> 01:48:17,519
Speaker 24: more of those expanding of the charges and potential death

2028
01:48:17,560 --> 01:48:22,639
Speaker 24: penalty sentencing that that that were brought up in that hearing.

2029
01:48:23,439 --> 01:48:26,320
Speaker 4: Did you think that judges were kind of covering what

2030
01:48:26,360 --> 01:48:29,840
Speaker 4: would be a future negative ruling, you know, being more

2031
01:48:29,840 --> 01:48:32,200
Speaker 4: open and being more reasonable people so that when they

2032
01:48:32,240 --> 01:48:34,960
Speaker 4: finally extra date him, they'll seem like more reasonable people.

2033
01:48:35,760 --> 01:48:38,040
Speaker 4: Or was your guy telling you that maybe the pressure

2034
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:40,439
Speaker 4: was actually getting to them and they might actually kind

2035
01:48:40,479 --> 01:48:41,280
Speaker 4: of do the right thing.

2036
01:48:42,040 --> 01:48:45,519
Speaker 24: Well, yeah, you know, yeah, I think a lot of

2037
01:48:45,560 --> 01:48:50,679
Speaker 24: it is having that external you know, that external facing

2038
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:54,479
Speaker 24: engagement and looking to be engaged. I think that is

2039
01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:56,080
Speaker 24: a very big part of it. I think you're right,

2040
01:48:57,040 --> 01:49:00,760
Speaker 24: And the pressure and the monitoring has led them to

2041
01:49:01,360 --> 01:49:03,439
Speaker 24: have to do that. You know, previously they didn't have

2042
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:06,400
Speaker 24: to because you know, we didn't have you know, Amnesty

2043
01:49:06,439 --> 01:49:09,560
Speaker 24: International was there, We had people from the UN observing

2044
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:12,400
Speaker 24: as well as the German embassy, Australian embassy. A lot

2045
01:49:12,439 --> 01:49:15,400
Speaker 24: of eyes are on that court more so than that

2046
01:49:15,560 --> 01:49:21,120
Speaker 24: in previous hearings. So yeah, there is that element to

2047
01:49:21,160 --> 01:49:23,719
Speaker 24: it as well that they were just you know, entering

2048
01:49:23,720 --> 01:49:25,960
Speaker 24: into this sort of performance to make it seem like

2049
01:49:26,640 --> 01:49:29,000
Speaker 24: that they were really going to consider it and consider

2050
01:49:29,040 --> 01:49:33,040
Speaker 24: it properly. But I mean we'd see down the track

2051
01:49:33,080 --> 01:49:36,680
Speaker 24: when they make their decision. The defense has until the

2052
01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:39,840
Speaker 24: third of March to give more information and then they

2053
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:43,519
Speaker 24: can make their decision anytime after that, so we'll see

2054
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:47,000
Speaker 24: what appeal points they may allow or whether they reject.

2055
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:50,000
Speaker 5: Then last question on mayan is just what can average

2056
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:53,400
Speaker 5: people do to help? You know, lawmakers obviously play the

2057
01:49:53,400 --> 01:49:56,240
Speaker 5: big role in us the court is fate is in

2058
01:49:56,240 --> 01:49:58,280
Speaker 5: the hands of a court right now. But if average

2059
01:49:58,280 --> 01:50:00,519
Speaker 5: people want to learn their support to the cause the cause,

2060
01:50:00,600 --> 01:50:01,599
Speaker 5: what can they do game.

2061
01:50:01,640 --> 01:50:04,120
Speaker 24: We've been asking people to contact their representatives about this

2062
01:50:04,200 --> 01:50:07,240
Speaker 24: resolution nine thirty four and ask them to sign on

2063
01:50:07,280 --> 01:50:10,720
Speaker 24: to that resolution. Ask their representatives to sign on to that.

2064
01:50:10,800 --> 01:50:14,439
Speaker 24: You can also go to Sirange defense dot org. Join

2065
01:50:14,479 --> 01:50:18,040
Speaker 24: our subscriber list and you'll receive emails about what's going

2066
01:50:18,040 --> 01:50:23,400
Speaker 24: on around the country, different actions that you can take, donations,

2067
01:50:23,439 --> 01:50:26,360
Speaker 24: things like that. So Sannge Defense dot org is a

2068
01:50:26,400 --> 01:50:29,160
Speaker 24: good place to go for that sort of info.

2069
01:50:29,560 --> 01:50:30,519
Speaker 3: Excellent, sounds good.

2070
01:50:31,160 --> 01:50:33,800
Speaker 5: Absolutely, thank you for being here and bussive luck as

2071
01:50:33,840 --> 01:50:35,760
Speaker 5: you make your case to lawmakers in the next week

2072
01:50:35,880 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 5: or so.

2073
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:40,360
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. Thanks you jeers. So again, that

2074
01:50:40,640 --> 01:50:43,360
Speaker 3: was Assannge defense dot org.

2075
01:50:44,360 --> 01:50:46,800
Speaker 4: Go check go, check that out, join their mailing list

2076
01:50:47,240 --> 01:50:49,719
Speaker 4: and tell you know, Tell, tell your member of Congress

2077
01:50:49,720 --> 01:50:52,479
Speaker 4: signed nine thirty Four's right, it's the Resolute's the one.

2078
01:50:52,640 --> 01:50:55,800
Speaker 4: Nine thirty four put some pressure on the Biden administration

2079
01:50:57,439 --> 01:50:58,920
Speaker 4: for the once in their lives, do the right thing.

2080
01:50:59,360 --> 01:51:02,120
Speaker 5: That does it for us on today's edition of Counterpoints.

2081
01:51:02,160 --> 01:51:06,080
Speaker 5: Though Ryan will have had almost two weeks by next

2082
01:51:06,120 --> 01:51:11,760
Speaker 5: week's show to reacclimate to the non fish universe. So

2083
01:51:12,200 --> 01:51:14,599
Speaker 5: Ryan will be back here next week and maybe he'll

2084
01:51:14,640 --> 01:51:18,200
Speaker 5: be a little less out of sorts. We'll see, there's

2085
01:51:18,240 --> 01:51:18,960
Speaker 5: no way to be sure

2086
01:51:19,080 --> 01:51:34,160
Speaker 3: And we'll see you that either way.