Speaker 1: Do you think giving people a second chance after cheating
Speaker 1: is okay? Not okay? What are your feelings? What's your
Speaker 1: stance on it?
Speaker 2: They will have to go about a lot of changes
Speaker 2: to re earn that trust, and you, the person who
Speaker 2: is violated, will have to go about a lot of
Speaker 2: changes to open yourself back up to trusting that person.
Speaker 2: That is a therapist answer.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was a very great therapist answer. Okay, and
Speaker 1: now what's your answer?
Speaker 2: Hell? Fuck?
Speaker 1: You know what we do here destroy shame around sex
Speaker 1: by talking about sex. Now let me tell you something messy. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I you know this has nothing to do with sex,
Speaker 1: but it's my show. So sometimes the things are not
Speaker 1: about sex, are just things that annoy me. And you
Speaker 1: know what annoys the fuck out of me? And I
Speaker 1: know not only one. When motherfucker's thumbs up a text.
Speaker 1: One of my best friends loves a thumbs up, And
Speaker 1: every time somebody thumbs up a text, I'm like, are
Speaker 1: you mad?
Speaker 2: It's like when.
Speaker 1: People use a period, like if you use good punctuation,
Speaker 1: like sometimes punctuation is necessary in your text. But if
Speaker 1: you're somebody who goes hello, period, you're a serial killer. Girl,
Speaker 1: Like what that to me feels like are you mad
Speaker 1: at me? Are you annoyed at me? It's just not
Speaker 1: a good time. Just like I have a friend and
Speaker 1: she she just loves her punctuation. But for the longest
Speaker 1: time I used to think she was pissed at me
Speaker 1: because she would put a period at the end of
Speaker 1: every fucking text message. And now my best mother best
Speaker 1: friend thumbs up a text. I'd be like, hey, how
Speaker 1: are you thumbs up? Okay, oh, I'm planning on and
Speaker 1: this thing happened to thumbs up girl. If you don't
Speaker 1: give me a heart, I need a heart, I need
Speaker 1: an exclamation point. I'll even take a question mark if
Speaker 1: you don't understand.
Speaker 2: But a thumbs up.
Speaker 1: That straight up disrespect. And I know I'm not the
Speaker 1: only one who thinks this, And so this is this
Speaker 1: is for those of us who are offended by your
Speaker 1: motherfucking thumbs up. Anyone who knows me, Next time you
Speaker 1: text me, and next time I text you, hearts hearts
Speaker 1: love joy, smiley faces, a smirk, devil emoji. There's so
Speaker 1: many fucking options. Don't thumbs up. I'll fucking break your
Speaker 1: thumb Ooh that's what my mother used to say. My
Speaker 1: mother black moms. You know, like if you be like
Speaker 1: thumbs little birds, I'll break that finger off. And that's
Speaker 1: how I feel. That's i'ma Actually I'm gonna text my
Speaker 1: best friend right now. I'm gonna break your thumb off
Speaker 1: the next time you thumbs up me and see what
Speaker 1: he says. It's with the love. But respectfully, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, speaking of thumbs. Have I set this on?
Speaker 1: I know I've said it on the internet, and I
Speaker 1: know I've said it in shows, But have I said
Speaker 1: on the podcast the thumb theory? Do you don't know
Speaker 1: the thumb theory? Okay, listen, If you don't know the
Speaker 1: thumb theory, if you if you follow me for a minute,
Speaker 1: you probably know the thumb theory. If you don't know
Speaker 1: the thumb theory, and if I've said it on a
Speaker 1: previous episode, I apologize that I'm repeating it. But anyways,
Speaker 1: you could tell the size of a dick, the length
Speaker 1: with the girth by looking at us somebody's thumb. This
Speaker 1: is science. Shut up, shut up wherever you are, shut up. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you this is this is whole science is hology,
Speaker 1: all right, The whole ology of a thumb is that
Speaker 1: you can tell. Now listen, Please don't come for me,
Speaker 1: because I know that there are probably some medical professionals
Speaker 1: that do be listening to this podcast. Listen. My friend
Speaker 1: told me this, and honestly, honestly, I've found my research,
Speaker 1: lots and lots of research, and I have discovered that
Speaker 1: a lot of times the thumbs be matchined. Now, some
Speaker 1: of y'all will say, no, it doesn't listen a lot
Speaker 1: of times I didn't say all the time. Okay, this
Speaker 1: theory works a solid I'm gonna say ninety percent of
Speaker 1: the time. Okay, is what I is what I gather
Speaker 1: from you know, my my private research that I self
Speaker 1: funded research that the thumb you look at it, you
Speaker 1: could tell you know the size of it, with the
Speaker 1: girth right, that thumb is looking, you know, thickish, maybe
Speaker 1: that dick will be thickish. Okay. If that thumb is
Speaker 1: looking long, baby, that dick is probably gonna be nice
Speaker 1: and long. And if that thumb is looking like short,
Speaker 1: then that dick might also be short. Do me a favor.
Speaker 1: Look at your partner's thumbs. Okay, look at your penis
Speaker 1: owning partner's thumbs, and then look at that penis and
Speaker 1: see and tell and see if I'm correct, and I
Speaker 1: know that I am time. So the ten percent of
Speaker 1: you go it's not true. Respect I heard, I understand,
Speaker 1: But there will be ninety percent of you that I're
Speaker 1: gonna be like, yeah, messy mom was correct. By the way,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. This is tell me something, Messie.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Brandon Kyle good Man. Most people call
Speaker 1: me MESSI mom, but you could call me a hoologist. Hello. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: let's get this show started. Maybe you know what that means.
Speaker 1: It's time for I guess now while they get situated
Speaker 1: and before we do our whole manifestel and get up
Speaker 1: into this messy key key a little bit of hoe keeping.
Speaker 1: Now y'all may know by now, but maybe you knew here.
Speaker 1: We're trying to get to our one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts and Spotify podcast before
Speaker 1: this month is out, because it just helps us grow
Speaker 1: this show. It helps get you know, the We gotta
Speaker 1: play with this motherfucker algorithm. You understand, So if you
Speaker 1: have it, and I know a lot of you haven't,
Speaker 1: because there are thousands of you here and only like ratings.
Speaker 1: So if you haven't it, just take a second give
Speaker 1: us that five star rating and you can write us
Speaker 1: a little review. It doesn't have to be anything in depth.
Speaker 1: It could literally just be like this show is lit baby, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is the one to check out. Very simple. It
Speaker 1: really again does help the show. So thank you and
Speaker 1: time for the whole manifestel Grant me the serenity to
Speaker 1: unpack my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to
Speaker 1: know that second is not just about penetration, the audacity
Speaker 1: to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries, the strength to
Speaker 1: not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl, or
Speaker 1: fuck bay, for it is better to masturbate by myself
Speaker 1: in peace than to let someone play in my motherfucker face.
Speaker 1: Let the community say wolujah. I am so excited to
Speaker 1: have Shahim on the show. Shahim McLaurin is a black
Speaker 1: gender queer, licensed social worker, therapist and influencer born and
Speaker 1: raised in Baltimore, Maryland, who is currently stationed in Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: New York. With upwards of eight hundred thousand followers, Shahim
Speaker 1: uses their platform to address a wide range of social
Speaker 1: and mental health issues impacting people of color, patriarchy, impact
Speaker 1: of people and members of the LGBTQ plus community. Shahim
Speaker 1: has built a loyal community around their provision of mental
Speaker 1: health advice, support and self care tips. Y'all please help me.
Speaker 1: Welcome Shahhim Hashi. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I am fangirling. I was so excited that you're here.
Speaker 1: I love your videos. I'm obsessed. I repost them, as
Speaker 1: you know, I send them to people. I always feel
Speaker 1: like you. You deliver the truth with love, compassion, but
Speaker 1: also it's the truth. It's just like it is what
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: I'll definitely try.
Speaker 1: You and you succeed, You succeed. Okay, before we get
Speaker 1: into our messy gi key, here's some messy mandates. One,
Speaker 1: things get to be unprocessed. Any thoughts or opinion shared
Speaker 1: have the right to evolve, shift or change today, tomorrow,
Speaker 1: ten years from now. And if during the key key
Speaker 1: something feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we use the
Speaker 1: safe word foosball, which gives us a chance to pivot
Speaker 1: and address accordingly.
Speaker 2: Sounds nice, that sounds perfect, sounds lovely.
Speaker 1: Shall we start with a lube breaker? Yes, it's great,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna play around to fuck Mary block. Yes,
Speaker 1: so fuck Mary block. Tongue in your ear, tongue in
Speaker 1: your mouth, tongue in your ass. Oh you know you
Speaker 1: really felt away?
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I will say immediately block tongue in the ear. Okay,
Speaker 2: it does nothing for me, does nothing for me, all right.
Speaker 2: I definitely would fuck tongue in ass, yes, and I
Speaker 2: would marry tongue in the mouth floor Jesus.
Speaker 1: Lord Jesus, Yes, okay, I'm with you. I'm in a
Speaker 1: block tongue in the air. It does do something for me,
Speaker 1: and I also does something for my boyfriend loves a
Speaker 1: tongue in the air, and I'm so turned on when
Speaker 1: I'm turning somebody else on. But unfortunately it doesn't do
Speaker 1: it enough.
Speaker 2: I'm just always like, well is it okay?
Speaker 1: So, by the way, like, are people putting their tongue
Speaker 1: in your ear with a with a pointy tongue, a
Speaker 1: kermit tongue, or a flat tongue.
Speaker 2: It doesn't does nothing.
Speaker 1: For me because the pokey, the kerment that, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that I don't want like the sensation, but a nice
Speaker 1: like flat Sorry, I am going to marry oh see
Speaker 1: a tongue in the I love eating ass making out.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fun that. I'm gonna fuck the tongue in
Speaker 1: the ass because I have nothing if we're not making out.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: This is the most interesting way I've ever started a podcast.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. I'm going to marry. I'm marry
Speaker 1: tongue in the mouth because I always want to make
Speaker 1: out like nothing if we're not making out.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Okay, fuck Mary block fuck Mary block. Spit play, come play, food.
Speaker 2: Play, block food play immediately. Okay, absolutely know.
Speaker 1: You don't want that food for the table.
Speaker 2: Damn. The rest are tied low key for me. Okay,
Speaker 2: so you fucking come play, Marry and come play. I'm
Speaker 2: by that. I'll do that first.
Speaker 1: You're gonna marry, come play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you can't do that with everybody, that's something
Speaker 2: you got to ask. But spin, I feel like I
Speaker 2: can do that with everybody. So I'll marry, spit play,
Speaker 2: come play. Okay.
Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, I'm I'm only blocking food plate
Speaker 1: because I haven't tried it yet, but I really I'm curious. Well,
Speaker 1: all I've had is like a lollipop on somebody's asshole,
Speaker 1: which I talked about way too many times. But that's
Speaker 1: the most I've done. But I am ready to like
Speaker 1: eat a cast roll or for somebody's titties. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 1: I am hungry for it, but intended, I like, really
Speaker 1: want to eat a cast roll off some titties and
Speaker 1: call it a day. And it's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe I'll love it, maybe I hate it, but I'd
Speaker 1: like to try it. But for now, you'll block. I'll
Speaker 1: block the food blade. Look at you. You cross your legs.
Speaker 1: You said that's very nice. I mean, judge, what maybe
Speaker 1: if you like it, I love it, I'm going to
Speaker 1: I'm going to marry, come play, and I'm gonna spit
Speaker 1: play wise decision. I always want your cum, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Yes, every Yeah, I don't always want
Speaker 1: to spit, but I always want to come. Okay, Amen,
Speaker 1: fuck Mary block metal cock ring, Prince Albert Penis Cage.
Speaker 2: Can I block all of them?
Speaker 1: Listen?
Speaker 2: You can't. Oh god, it can be. It can be
Speaker 2: a you know, okay, a temporary marriage, a short marriage,
Speaker 2: a short session, immediate block to the Prince Albert.
Speaker 1: Okay, this a piercing on your pee hole.
Speaker 2: I can't do that, but I'll marry the cock ring
Speaker 2: and I will fuck the page.
Speaker 1: In the exact same way the Prince albert in theory sounds.
Speaker 2: But like I feels good though, huh, I it feels good.
Speaker 1: But I got my nipple pierced and that was enough
Speaker 1: piercing for me. On like it hurts. By the way,
Speaker 1: it took too long because my nipples were smaller, it
Speaker 1: fell out. I had to have it repierced. I don't
Speaker 1: want my Prince. If my Prince album falls out, I'm pissed.
Speaker 2: I'm pissed.
Speaker 1: I want to do that first round. Nah No, I
Speaker 1: got a block, Prince Albert. I will marry a little
Speaker 1: cock ring because you know, I'm always down to have
Speaker 1: cock ring on. And I think a penis cach. I've
Speaker 1: never been in the penis cage, but I find it.
Speaker 1: I find it interesting and I'm I'm open to it,
Speaker 1: but maybe, but I feel like it wouldn't be something
Speaker 1: I would marry because I don't don't cage me. I
Speaker 1: don't want to be a free bird.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: You won the game, By the way, you don't want
Speaker 1: any money, as I always say, you just want my
Speaker 1: unconditional love.
Speaker 2: So congratulations.
Speaker 1: Don't talk to me like that. Okay, if y'all have
Speaker 1: any uh lou breaker ideas or prompts, you can email
Speaker 1: tell me something messy at gmail dot com. Speaking of which.
Speaker 2: Shahim, do you want to tell me something messy? Yes,
Speaker 2: I'm so anxious about Well, I'm not anxious. I recently
Speaker 2: today found out that I was blocked by someone who's
Speaker 2: a fellow content creator because of a boy.
Speaker 1: What mean because of a boy?
Speaker 2: Well? I was fucking him first, right and they Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna reveal too many details because it's I
Speaker 2: don't want I don't want to have because people could
Speaker 2: put two and two together. I was talking first, that's it.
Speaker 2: I was first, before they did anything got together any
Speaker 2: of that. I was fucking a man first.
Speaker 1: But do you think that's a reason to be blocked.
Speaker 2: Well, that's not the part. It's a more complicated story.
Speaker 2: But I will say, you know, it was a lot
Speaker 2: of gray area. There's a situation. I don't I don't
Speaker 2: move that much over boys, Like why over a boy?
Speaker 1: Over a boy? I really feel like we can have
Speaker 1: a if we're friends, we can have a conversation.
Speaker 2: Well, we weren't really friends and you are according to me,
Speaker 2: we weren't friends according to them.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. What do you classify as a friend.
Speaker 2: Do we hang out like it could be even in
Speaker 2: a group setting, like, or do we hang out? Do
Speaker 2: we talk to each other like outside of running into
Speaker 2: each other? Do you like call me? Do we like
Speaker 2: intentionally spend time with time? Yes, if we don't do
Speaker 2: those things and we just like are like high and
Speaker 2: by when we see each other, like we're just like.
Speaker 1: Cool, We're we're acquaintances and like I can.
Speaker 2: Be friends with people like like more on the peripheral, Like,
Speaker 2: but yes, if I'm not, if I don't have moments
Speaker 2: where I'm connecting with you on an intimate level, and
Speaker 2: every time I've seen you has been like running into
Speaker 2: you in public, like I wouldn't necessarily classify us as friends.
Speaker 1: I really love that you're saying this, and I think
Speaker 1: that we need to bring bring back acquaintances because I
Speaker 1: do think that like everybody's a friend, especially with social media, right,
Speaker 1: like everybody is a friend. And you're like, no, you
Speaker 1: don't even have my phone number, like you never text
Speaker 1: to see how I'm doing. I never check up on you.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on in your life if
Speaker 1: it's not on the internet, So that wouldn't be a
Speaker 1: friend to me. We're friendly, right, but we're not friends.
Speaker 1: But but sometimes I do think people will try to
Speaker 1: hold you to friends standards when you're only friendly, and
Speaker 1: that gets confusing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I hope it.
Speaker 1: You don't seem too pressed about it, but I hope
Speaker 1: it's no you tried. I saw you look off to
Speaker 1: try and be pressed, and you said, well, no, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna go there.
Speaker 2: Okay, I love it.
Speaker 1: Do you want to do some messy mail?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: Lovely? Okay, Patrons, As always, your submissions remain anonymous. So
Speaker 1: this first one says ex's friend is hitting me up,
Speaker 1: told myself, be the mess you wish to see in
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 2: It's on. Wow, your ex's friends are they still friends?
Speaker 1: The excess friend?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Friends still friends? That's messy me personally, like for
Speaker 2: a fleeing maybe like And now I know people might
Speaker 2: think that this is controversial, but like, I mean no,
Speaker 2: because frankly, if you would do another bitch greasy, you
Speaker 2: would do me greasy too.
Speaker 1: Well, like if you had like a no attachment, you're like, ill,
Speaker 1: fuck you, but like.
Speaker 2: There's no Yeah, I mean it's just a little different different,
Speaker 2: But I would like it's more so the question around
Speaker 2: that X in their connection to their friends. It's weird.
Speaker 2: Why I'd be.
Speaker 1: Curious, like why you wishing out to me? Yeah, like
Speaker 1: that's your friend, why you reaching out?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And then I don't want that karma.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking of all of my uh ex's friends, like
Speaker 2: any of them reach out to me. I'm just I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have anything very much to say.
Speaker 1: You know what, I'm now that you think. I did
Speaker 1: have one of my friends his ex reached out to
Speaker 1: my best friend and we were all like, mmmm, coral
Speaker 1: you played but nothing happened. But it was one of
Speaker 1: those where like, oh, you greet your dirty for that,
Speaker 1: Like why would you?
Speaker 2: I actually had an ex friend reach out to an
Speaker 2: ex of mine, like on one of the apps from
Speaker 2: an anonymous page. That's a messy story. Mess that's messy friend.
Speaker 2: But even it's like boy, you could have had the boy.
Speaker 2: All you have to do is ask.
Speaker 1: There are also so many boys, like.
Speaker 2: Please, it's a boy, be serious, it's a boy.
Speaker 1: At the end, of the day. It's a boy. Okay,
Speaker 1: this one says, I'm happily married. However I have the
Speaker 1: biggest gym crush and it's getting more intense. What do
Speaker 1: I do?
Speaker 2: Girl? Going about your day? Gone about your day, especially
Speaker 2: if you're happily married, don't about your day. Do not
Speaker 2: throw away your life for some fantasy.
Speaker 1: Serious, honestly, that's that's tee, that's key. It's a fantasy.
Speaker 1: And Jim crush fantasies are the best. And I love
Speaker 1: a gym crush. And you have the fantasy of they've
Speaker 1: never had a gym crush, You've never had a hold
Speaker 1: on what do you mean you never had a Jim crush? Like,
Speaker 1: what do you mean like or like a like a
Speaker 1: sport crush or team crush.
Speaker 2: I mean I find people attractive, of course, but it's
Speaker 2: not it's just like in passing it.
Speaker 1: But that's a Jim crush. I know that Jim crush
Speaker 1: is in passing.
Speaker 2: It's like I don't like that person is cute. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a crush out of mind, don't give it.
Speaker 1: It's just somebody that you see repeatedly that you're like,
Speaker 1: oh they're cute, like a work crush, like.
Speaker 2: I mean, the thought comes the first time and then
Speaker 2: it's just like, okay, yeah, are you smooth?
Speaker 1: It just rolls off.
Speaker 2: Is it smooth?
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess like I'm I'm be pressed about
Speaker 1: my I'd be like, look at it, I'm lifting it
Speaker 1: a little more.
Speaker 2: I'd be pressed. But it takes a lot to get
Speaker 2: me there. I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 1: What gets you pressed, Like what does the person have
Speaker 1: to do or how does it have to be?
Speaker 2: I like a sensitive man?
Speaker 1: Oh real bad, You're like a soft little tender m m.
Speaker 1: How do you know they're sensitive? Like they they asked
Speaker 1: you what your daying like? What what constitutes a sensitive.
Speaker 2: Someone who is like, uh, one not afraid to express
Speaker 2: themselves emotionally, but the full range of emotion and someone
Speaker 2: who is like intentional about how they care for the
Speaker 2: people around them. That turns me, oh jesus wow.
Speaker 1: I love your standards. I love your standards. There are
Speaker 1: never lower them. I on the other hand, I love
Speaker 1: I do love, I do love a sensitive man. I
Speaker 1: do have a lot of gym crushes, and I, you know,
Speaker 1: a new one every time, and I kind of look
Speaker 1: for them. I seek out a gym crush. It's just
Speaker 1: fun to me for the hour that I'm there. I
Speaker 1: love finding people to be attracted to. I love trying
Speaker 1: to impress them with how run fast, how much? How
Speaker 1: long I stay on the stairstupper because I'm not running
Speaker 1: on nobody's trying to the stairstepper, getting of ask and
Speaker 1: I want them to see it. But they also stressed
Speaker 1: me out. I had one of my gym crushes, this
Speaker 1: is months ago, finally walked up to me and like
Speaker 1: said hi to me, but then he thought I was
Speaker 1: somebody else. He thought. He was like get he like named,
Speaker 1: He's like, You're I just I said, hey, I'm Brandon.
Speaker 1: He was like, oh I thought you were and he
Speaker 1: said another name.
Speaker 2: I was like.
Speaker 1: Devastating him and I never did and I never did
Speaker 1: hardly because I never saw him again. But if I did,
Speaker 1: I would never talk to him again, because don't you
Speaker 1: fucking my name like that. This one says my BF
Speaker 1: cheated and I gave him a second chance, And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna couple that with another one that says girlfriend told
Speaker 1: me she wanted to just be friends with a person
Speaker 1: and ended up fucking them while I was away, And
Speaker 1: so I'm using both of those. So we can talk
Speaker 1: about cheating and where should we jump into cheating? Well,
Speaker 1: let's start with this first question, which is I gave
Speaker 1: him a second chance. Do you think giving people a
Speaker 1: second chance after cheating is okay?
Speaker 2: Not?
Speaker 1: Okay? What are your feelings? What's your stance on it?
Speaker 2: Life has taught me a lot about this question. Okay.
Speaker 2: I can give you a therapeutic answer, or I can
Speaker 2: give you my answer. She's a therat I've learned. Here's
Speaker 2: what I want.
Speaker 1: I want the therapist answer first, and then I want
Speaker 1: your answer.
Speaker 2: Okay. So the therapist's answer is that conflict can be overcame
Speaker 2: in any connection. It will take a lot of dedication
Speaker 2: and a lot of rebuilding of trust, which is possible.
Speaker 2: It just takes two people who are dedicated to doing that.
Speaker 2: The person who committed the violation of trust, they will
Speaker 2: have to go about a lot of changes to re
Speaker 2: earn that trust, and you, the person who is violated,
Speaker 2: will have to go about a lot of changes to
Speaker 2: open yourself back up to trusting that person. That is
Speaker 2: a therapist answer.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was a very great therapist answer. Okay, And
Speaker 1: now what's your answer?
Speaker 2: Hell? Fuck us? Oh I will say, why is it? Hell,
Speaker 2: don't tell me from my experience. I will say, from
Speaker 2: my personal experience, like sometimes sometimes because I'm not going
Speaker 2: to make too broad of us sweeping statement, sometimes you
Speaker 2: give people permission to mistreat you when they get away
Speaker 2: with it the first time. And that is a lesson
Speaker 2: I wish I could go back and tell younger me
Speaker 2: that is something that cheating comes from a place often
Speaker 2: not always, but often comes from a place where a
Speaker 2: person's integrity is not like aligned with what I like
Speaker 2: a person who I'm into residence integrity to be. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I learned that lesson the hard way. So I
Speaker 2: personally don't believe that a person who cares about you
Speaker 2: will put you in a predicament where they leave you
Speaker 2: devastated from being violated like that. Personally, yes, but I
Speaker 2: would also reflect within as to why you think that
Speaker 2: that type of treatment is treatment that you should put
Speaker 2: up with.
Speaker 1: Oof, I need a moment. I really dropped a lot
Speaker 1: of bars, truly, didn't I say at the top, like,
Speaker 1: you really really tell it like it is? I am
Speaker 1: you know this. I'm so fascinated by cheating because I'm
Speaker 1: with you. And then I also have like a curiosity
Speaker 1: of out the cheater, because I know so often when
Speaker 1: we talk about cheating, it's very clear, like there's a
Speaker 1: there's a transgression that happened, there's a right and a wrong.
Speaker 1: And I am all like, if if my best friend
Speaker 1: got cheated on, I would absolutely say leave them in hell,
Speaker 1: and actually, in fact, you go check out. I will
Speaker 1: handle this, you know what I'm saying, Like, I I
Speaker 1: recognize that. But then I'm also I guess there's a
Speaker 1: side of me that is curious about the cheater why
Speaker 1: it happened, because some people just don't give a fuck.
Speaker 1: But then there are those cases where trauma got the
Speaker 1: best of somebody, where their baggage or the the self sabotage,
Speaker 1: the inability to hold love or retain love, the fear
Speaker 1: of the relationship getting deeper, the fe like all those
Speaker 1: things act up. Now, that doesn't mean that the person
Speaker 1: who's been cheated on should give them a second chance
Speaker 1: or stay like that's totally up to you. But I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: where is the space to have conversations about people who've cheated,
Speaker 1: Which now leads to me, I wasn't sure I was
Speaker 1: going to share this piece, but I cheated once. And
Speaker 1: I have so much shame around it. I finally told
Speaker 1: my husband about it. It wasn't on my husband, it
Speaker 1: was in a previous relationship, but I I never even
Speaker 1: told him about it. And we've been together for nine years,
Speaker 1: and I finally told him about it a year ago.
Speaker 1: In my defense, the context of this cheating was that
Speaker 1: I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and I did
Speaker 1: not know how to get out. And I remember a
Speaker 1: friend of mine cheated on her partner who I knew,
Speaker 1: and we got lunch together. We were talking about it,
Speaker 1: and she was like, I didn't know how to get
Speaker 1: out of the relationship, and so I cheated because I
Speaker 1: knew there was no way to come back. And then
Speaker 1: a year after that conversation, I found myself unable to
Speaker 1: get out of this relationship, and so I cheated. And
Speaker 1: I never told that partner because I didn't want. I
Speaker 1: knew that if we were to stay together, I'm a
Speaker 1: terrible liar. I'm an awful liar, so I would have
Speaker 1: to tell him. And so my choices were to tell
Speaker 1: him and stay or to end the relationship and get out.
Speaker 1: I ended the relationship and I got out, but I
Speaker 1: just like I think about I don't know, so it
Speaker 1: just like makes me always think about cheating and why
Speaker 1: people are cheating and is there a space to have
Speaker 1: empathy for cheaters, And of course there is, but I
Speaker 1: don't know. Now I'm just rambling about the No.
Speaker 2: I mean, I appreciate you for being vulnerable about that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's okay to hold both of those troops
Speaker 2: at the same time. Right, somebody can cheat and it
Speaker 2: can come from a place of trauma, and it is
Speaker 2: also trauma inducing for the person on the receiving end
Speaker 2: of Yes, right, both of those things exist at the
Speaker 2: same time. We have a tendency to try and break
Speaker 2: something down to where it can only be one truth,
Speaker 2: but it's multiple. Do I believe that those people deserve empathy? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I know that's controversial because a lot of people are
Speaker 2: like cheaters are all terrible people. Yeah, And it's like, well, no,
Speaker 2: I don't believe that people are disposable, and I believe
Speaker 2: people can learn from these things like I've been cheated
Speaker 2: on yea, and I by no means like like my
Speaker 2: ex who cheated on me? And no, by no means,
Speaker 2: do I have any animosity towards them, Like we've done,
Speaker 2: all the things, we've had, all the conversations. I've moved on.
Speaker 2: Hopefully he's moved on. Yeah, And you can grow from it,
Speaker 2: and hopefully he has grown. He's experienced some more life
Speaker 2: after our relationship. It sounds like he's grown from it,
Speaker 2: and you know, that's great. I wish him all the best.
Speaker 2: The trauma that I endured as a result of being
Speaker 2: cheated on, that was even deeper because it was in
Speaker 2: a public way. But you know, I even have like
Speaker 2: processed that, I've like sat with it, I've grieved it,
Speaker 2: I've let it go, and I'm able to like open
Speaker 2: myself up to probably right now but for separate reasons,
Speaker 2: but like, I was able to open myself up to
Speaker 2: romantic connections after like and I knew that his sheeting
Speaker 2: was a result of him feeling the pressure of the relationship.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I was like, I'll put pressure on him,
Speaker 2: but the relationship itself was pressure. We were talking about
Speaker 2: things like marriage. It was a very public facing relationship.
Speaker 2: That was I think his first time like experiencing having
Speaker 2: so many eyes on him at that time, and I
Speaker 2: think it was just hard. You have all these people
Speaker 2: constantly throwing themselves at you because of who you're dating,
Speaker 2: or like how your relationship is set up. You are
Speaker 2: young and like all that, like, and I understand also,
Speaker 2: like he was struggling and we had these conversations, he
Speaker 2: was struggling to keep up with me, Like I'm a
Speaker 2: very like you know, yeah, I'm a go get it
Speaker 2: maybe I know here on in these streets. And you know,
Speaker 2: while I would, I went really hard for our connection, Like,
Speaker 2: it was still like intimidating for him. Yeah, it was
Speaker 2: fucked up. That part doesn't change. But I don't think
Speaker 2: it was coming from a place of malice to it
Speaker 2: hurt me. He knew it was going to hurt me.
Speaker 2: He did it anyway, So it was fucked It was
Speaker 2: a shitty thing to do. Yeah, and I knew that
Speaker 2: he truly loved and cared about me. He just did
Speaker 2: not know how to process that. And Yeah, for that
Speaker 2: and many other reasons, it's important that people learn how
Speaker 2: to process and deal with their emotions and how to
Speaker 2: communicate effectively before they hop into relationships. We all should
Speaker 2: work on ourselves a little bit, and none of us
Speaker 2: get it right all the time. And we learned through relationships,
Speaker 2: but it's important to keep in mind that it is
Speaker 2: a constant process of reassessing yourself and growing. And if
Speaker 2: he had done that while we were together, if he
Speaker 2: knew how to effectively communicate at the time, I doubt
Speaker 2: that he would have even done that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, would you say that. I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is true, but I'm wondering if a lot
Speaker 1: of cheating is a result of the inability to communicate clearly,
Speaker 1: also the inability to process. But it's like if you
Speaker 1: don't have I'm curious if you lack, if your communication
Speaker 1: skills are rough, are you more likely to cheat? Or
Speaker 1: it's before the communication, it's the inability to process your
Speaker 1: emotions and then communicate, and that leads to usually.
Speaker 2: I think it's hard to narrow it down to one
Speaker 2: exact expression of it because some people are actually just like,
Speaker 2: very selfish and want to have their cake and eat
Speaker 2: and eat it too. Yeah. Some people literally couldn't emote
Speaker 2: their way out of a paper bag, and you know, seriously,
Speaker 2: And some people are traumatized because of how they were
Speaker 2: conditioned and raised to not be able to express themselves.
Speaker 2: They are afraid of expressing themselves and do horrible things
Speaker 2: to people as a result.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I learned over and over again, if you are
Speaker 1: not somebody engaging with your emotions and trying to heal,
Speaker 1: then you are likely going to cause problems. Not that
Speaker 1: like people who are doing that don't also cause problems.
Speaker 1: But I think you're able.
Speaker 2: To cheat it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I cheat it back, though I don't regret that
Speaker 3: I cheat it back.
Speaker 2: Yeah I sure did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it happens.
Speaker 2: Right, I wouldn't do that in this current iteration of myself.
Speaker 2: But yeah, what thank.
Speaker 1: You for saying it in that way, because I think
Speaker 1: that also there are acknowledging that we are different versions
Speaker 1: of ourselves, and so a version of yourself that wasn't
Speaker 1: able to communicate a process or whatever made different choices
Speaker 1: than the version that you are now. And I think
Speaker 1: giving people this space that if they have cheated, that
Speaker 1: they can have a runway to change. You can leave
Speaker 1: them where you found them, for sure, but like understanding
Speaker 1: that they aren't a bad person.
Speaker 2: Can I also introduce another aspect that I think is
Speaker 2: really important here. Right, I had to develop a politic
Speaker 2: around dating, and I still have this politic, and although
Speaker 2: many people do not have dating politics, it is so
Speaker 2: important to me that when I walk away from a connection,
Speaker 2: like I don't want that person to feel lied, to,
Speaker 2: manipulate it, or controlled, so long as they don't feel
Speaker 2: any of those things from my part, Like I feel
Speaker 2: like I upheld my end of the deal, which requires transparency,
Speaker 2: which is different from being just honest, like being transparent
Speaker 2: and forthcoming with information that is pertinent to that person.
Speaker 1: It's transparent more so like honest is like if you
Speaker 1: ask me a question, I answered exactly, transparent as I'm
Speaker 1: offering exactly.
Speaker 2: You don't have to go digging for information. You know
Speaker 2: what you need to know. Yeah, and that's all trust is. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: it is very difficult to come across people, at least
Speaker 2: I feel in this state that I exist in, it
Speaker 2: is very hard to come across people who maneuver through
Speaker 2: life in a similar way. But I think that's why
Speaker 2: it's important that we have conversations like this so people know,
Speaker 2: like you should have a politic around this stuff, like
Speaker 2: I practice with how you approach and engage people, and
Speaker 2: not just like romantically, but even in your platonic connections
Speaker 2: and your business connections and all your connections, like people
Speaker 2: should feel at least that's my goal.
Speaker 1: I agree. I agree. I think it's like people think
Speaker 1: they should be nice and good, but I think it's
Speaker 1: so helpful to hear like I have a politic around
Speaker 1: how I show up with people and articulating that so
Speaker 1: that you can also check yourself and make sure, like
Speaker 1: am I living up to the standards that I'm setting
Speaker 1: for myself with the expectations that I have for myself.
Speaker 1: Both of these people who're written on have been cheated on.
Speaker 1: So we've talked about the cheater and trying to make
Speaker 1: space for you know, empathy around why somebody cheats. But
Speaker 1: then if you've been cheated on, what is the I
Speaker 1: guess what is the context in what you take somebody
Speaker 1: back or what is what do you think that person
Speaker 1: should be considering if they are thinking about a second chance.
Speaker 2: Well, I will say, like cheating even looks different in
Speaker 2: every connection, Like there are people who are even cool
Speaker 2: like probably people who are cool with like seeing multiple people. Yes, right,
Speaker 2: but if you don't communicate or express that like and
Speaker 2: you do it like in a way that is behind
Speaker 2: the person's fact, that's cheating in that connection. Right, Yes,
Speaker 2: So first, like you should establish what cheating means and
Speaker 2: your connection, and I think a lot of people to
Speaker 2: the credit, I think a lot of people do it,
Speaker 2: but I think there are enough people that don't wear it.
Speaker 2: There's often like a lot of clashing when it comes
Speaker 2: to like figuring out what that means. I like to
Speaker 2: have conversations very early in relationships about what that looks
Speaker 2: like in that So.
Speaker 1: I've never done that, but I think that's so like
Speaker 1: what do we do? What do we in this relationship
Speaker 1: define cheating ass because some people say, oh, you're dming.
Speaker 1: Somebody is cheating to me, and some people say, I
Speaker 1: don't give a fuck about your DMS.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like.
Speaker 1: Knowing that is so important, Okay, yes, great, So defining.
Speaker 2: That yeah, and like part of like and I'm really
Speaker 2: big on this, like shared definitions, Like it's how we
Speaker 2: keep each other accountable, Like if you know what is happening,
Speaker 2: Like if we both agree that this is the thing,
Speaker 2: if you violate that thing that we both define, then
Speaker 2: you are like violating the contract clear and like when
Speaker 2: it comes to repair after rupture. For me, one thing
Speaker 2: that is really really important is remorse. And I like,
Speaker 2: I trust me. I've had these conversations with Jesus. If
Speaker 2: somebody violates my trust. One, are they remorseful? Yeah, And
Speaker 2: expressing remorse is just the first step. What are they
Speaker 2: willing to do to remedy? Like what what harm they've caused? Like,
Speaker 2: how are they willing to change behavior? Or what are
Speaker 2: they willing to like to do in order to like
Speaker 2: basically address the rupture that they caused. Are they actually
Speaker 2: putting in the effort to do that? Yeah? Yeah, and
Speaker 2: you should not. My own personal experience has taught me this.
Speaker 2: So this is my opinion. You don't have to live
Speaker 2: by this. But I feel like I should never have
Speaker 2: to instruct someone like or like prompt someone to try
Speaker 2: and repair connection, because if that person is not eager
Speaker 2: to try and do that on their own, that is
Speaker 2: enough of a sign.
Speaker 1: You doin that that makes sense, that's fair. Like if
Speaker 1: they violated something, they know they violated something, they need
Speaker 1: to come kiss the ring if you will not, even
Speaker 1: like they need to be showing remorse and proactive about
Speaker 1: the repair that it's not on the person who's been
Speaker 1: violated shoulders to be like, this is how we repair this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, do the work. And what I will say is
Speaker 2: and it's really hard, and trust me, I've been on
Speaker 2: the receiving end of this, and it has been really difficult,
Speaker 2: and I didn't walk away in instances where I should have.
Speaker 2: You really do have to dig deep, deep, deep, deep
Speaker 2: down and try and find like that like self worth
Speaker 2: when it comes to navigating these situations. Yeah, because ultimately,
Speaker 2: like why why are you accept if a person is
Speaker 2: not doing the things to try and repair, why are
Speaker 2: you accepting this behavior? Right? But also like when you
Speaker 2: take someone back if they violate again, like the behavior
Speaker 2: didn't change. Yeah, just saying.
Speaker 1: It's like I thought about like the Maya Angela quote
Speaker 1: when somebody shows you who they are believed in the
Speaker 1: first time, which kind of goes against the second chance
Speaker 1: thing because there's a space in which you have empathy
Speaker 1: and say, okay, like my partner was experiencing S Y
Speaker 1: and Z, and I understand why they did it, and
Speaker 1: so like I can give them a second chance, but
Speaker 1: then if they do it again, then it's like, well,
Speaker 1: the thing is a thing.
Speaker 2: Love Cardi for example, Cardi B like she put up
Speaker 2: with a lot of that.
Speaker 1: I think about her often in this topic because I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, this like I think about her specifically because
Speaker 1: you see her as this what she is. She's on
Speaker 1: top of her game, incredibly powerful, beautiful, funny, talented, but
Speaker 1: there is this cycle in which she is.
Speaker 2: It can happen to any other of us.
Speaker 1: We're all in our we can all be in our cycles,
Speaker 1: and hopefully, I don't know, hopefully there's amends to be made.
Speaker 1: But if we continue to go back into the cycle,
Speaker 1: then it's a matter of like, well what is We
Speaker 1: can appear to have our self worth together, but what
Speaker 1: is actually going on beneath the surface.
Speaker 2: And that is where I think, like this like the
Speaker 2: soul search and commences, right, you have to like determine,
Speaker 2: like and I'm specifically a trauma therapist, like I do EMDR,
Speaker 2: so like sometimes happen that EMDR is an acronymic stands
Speaker 2: for eye movement, Desensitization and reprocessing therapy. It is a
Speaker 2: therapeutic model that is bottom up processing that uses bilateral
Speaker 2: stimulation fancy word for activating both sides your brain, either
Speaker 2: through tapping or eye movement is supposed to replicate, like
Speaker 2: your brain when it's in rim sleep, like you know,
Speaker 2: when your eyes are darting back and forth, because that
Speaker 2: is theorized where memory is processed. So when you activate
Speaker 2: both sides of your brain when you are going through
Speaker 2: and processing traumatic memories. It helps you to process quicker.
Speaker 2: So I have watched people in the span of minutes
Speaker 2: like process like years trauma.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So when I do like what I do, like I
Speaker 2: have seen people really go back to the route and
Speaker 2: things come up, like memories that you don't even remember
Speaker 2: that you remember. Like I see people go back to
Speaker 2: the root where they were first heartbroken, where they were
Speaker 2: first taught that they are not lovable, when they were
Speaker 2: first rejected. You know, I've done it myself. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I think, like what I compel anyone who is in
Speaker 2: a situation where they have been violated, their trust has
Speaker 2: been violated, someone has like disrespected like their their trust,
Speaker 2: go back like who taught you this first? Is this
Speaker 2: how you want to live for the rest of your life?
Speaker 2: I found that I do not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, when you put it like that, it in
Speaker 1: some ways it becomes that much clearer. It's like such
Speaker 1: a you know, like when I think, when you're navigating
Speaker 1: the upset, it can be so grand mightey because it's
Speaker 1: somebody you love and like we have all these years
Speaker 1: together and it's time together, and I don't feel's. But
Speaker 1: then when you break it down and it's like, but
Speaker 1: is this how do you like, do you feel worthy
Speaker 1: or not? Is this something that you want to put
Speaker 1: up with for the rest of your life or not?
Speaker 1: Is this a rupture that doesn't not even uh? Is
Speaker 1: this a rupture that existed before you were even in
Speaker 1: this relationship? Like is this something that needs to be
Speaker 1: healed in you that would actually maybe move you away
Speaker 1: from this person in general because it has something to
Speaker 1: do with them? Are I think it also in many
Speaker 1: ways gives you back the power that was taken from
Speaker 1: you by the transgression. Absolutely, because I think that, like,
Speaker 1: if you want to give somebody a second chance, fine,
Speaker 1: but I feel like, do it with intention, and do
Speaker 1: it with your eyes open, and do it with like
Speaker 1: having done your work, Like, Okay, they've done what they did.
Speaker 1: Let me take my time and figure out what the
Speaker 1: fuck this is so that when I come back to
Speaker 1: the table, I'm doing it.
Speaker 2: For amen, Theresa. You know I love the eyes open part.
Speaker 2: Wi your eyes open? Yes, you hate that.
Speaker 1: Thank you Listen, You've been eating this all the time,
Speaker 1: so I just catch it.
Speaker 2: Thank you for being here, thank you for having me,
Speaker 2: Thank you bye bye.
Speaker 1: Well, you know we're hose here, but hose with heart.
Speaker 1: So before we get out of here, let me speak
Speaker 1: to yours ha Shahim is a true gem, a true angel,
Speaker 1: and that conversation was just so nourishing. Some of my
Speaker 1: favorite takeaways and reminders are, you know, no one is disposable,
Speaker 1: and so as we talk about cheating or cheaters, there's
Speaker 1: such there's you know, there's always such a black and
Speaker 1: white binary look at it, such a moral high stance
Speaker 1: or moral high ground about who the cheater is without
Speaker 1: any kind of reflection or empathy. Which listen, the person
Speaker 1: who's been cheated on, I'm not saying it's your time
Speaker 1: to be empathetic, you know, like you've been violated, you've
Speaker 1: managed that. But culturally, as we look at the conversation
Speaker 1: around cheating and cheaters or people who have cheated, rather
Speaker 1: instead of naming them a cheater, a person who has cheated,
Speaker 1: you know, because as I'm saying that, I'm thinking about
Speaker 1: like once a cheat, always a cheater, like that, some
Speaker 1: of that language is really toxic because it removes the
Speaker 1: humanity of the person. It completely ignores their history, their trauma,
Speaker 1: their baggage. That can also be influencing the decisions that
Speaker 1: they've made. Again, it's not to excuse it, but we
Speaker 1: want to understand right, We want to have compassion and
Speaker 1: it completely. It has a sense that, like everyone has
Speaker 1: to be perfect right and perfection, perfectionism is a fallacy,
Speaker 1: and so sometimes really wonderful people might cheat And I
Speaker 1: think maybe our energy is best spent again, not if
Speaker 1: you've been cheated on and you're dealing with that person,
Speaker 1: but in general, our energy is best spent thinking about
Speaker 1: the psychology of it, thinking about the trauma, the motives,
Speaker 1: the reasonings, not to you know, judge and say right
Speaker 1: or wrong, but just so that we can There's a
Speaker 1: quote by the philosopher Terrence that I learned through my
Speaker 1: Angelo that I actually put in the front of all
Speaker 1: my scripts, and I think it's the front of my
Speaker 1: book as well, which is I am a human being.
Speaker 1: Thus nothing human can be alien to me. And so
Speaker 1: I really like that is something that I live by,
Speaker 1: which is that anything that anyone else is capable of
Speaker 1: doing that is human. You are also capable of doing
Speaker 1: that thing. You may not, you may not get to
Speaker 1: that edge, but it doesn't mean that it's not within
Speaker 1: your wheelhouse, and so we're best suited trying to understand
Speaker 1: how people arrived the decisions that they arrived at. One
Speaker 1: to have you know, love and compassion for them, but
Speaker 1: two to prevent ourselves from doing that thing right, Like,
Speaker 1: there's a lot that we can learn if you won't
Speaker 1: be in a relationship. There's a lot you can learn
Speaker 1: from somebody who's cheated, whether it's what not to do
Speaker 1: or you know how to avoid the thing. But there's
Speaker 1: a lot we can learn from each other. So no
Speaker 1: one is disposable. Love that in general. I really also love,
Speaker 1: you know, having a politic around dating. Yoshahim said, I
Speaker 1: want to make sure I want to leave a connection
Speaker 1: that no one has been lied to, manipulated or feels controlled.
Speaker 1: And I love that because it really is about an intention.
Speaker 1: What do you and and that again as Shahim, so
Speaker 1: you know, beautifully expressed. That can be in your romantic relationship,
Speaker 1: that can be in work family, Uh, you know, potonicallyationships.
Speaker 1: How do you want people to feel after they've you know,
Speaker 1: spent time with you? How do you want people to
Speaker 1: feel in interactions with you? What is important to you?
Speaker 1: I think when you know that you show up differently,
Speaker 1: Like I know that in any interaction that I have,
Speaker 1: I really want people to feel comfortable and safe. I
Speaker 1: want them to feel held. And because I know that,
Speaker 1: that's just how I show up. I'll show up that way,
Speaker 1: you know, at the Walgreens with cashier, I'll show up
Speaker 1: that way, you know, at dinner with my best friend,
Speaker 1: I'll show up that way with the you know, the
Speaker 1: stranger on the subway. I want everyone to when they
Speaker 1: are interacting with me, to feel comfortable and to feel safe. Listen,
Speaker 1: there are boundaries to this. There's context of this. Some
Speaker 1: people you know are gon do some fuction and you
Speaker 1: know whatever. But what what is always important is that
Speaker 1: we keep our sides of the street clean, if you will,
Speaker 1: if you'll allow me that expression transparency versus honesty. And
Speaker 1: I talk about this a lot, you know, in terms
Speaker 1: of polya memory. You know the importance of over communication.
Speaker 1: But this is this works I think in anything, this
Speaker 1: concept of in order to build trust or a great
Speaker 1: way to build trust. It is not a wait for
Speaker 1: your partner to ask you about the thing, but for
Speaker 1: you to offer up the thing. I'm about to go
Speaker 1: do this or I'm about to you know, go over
Speaker 1: here or I'm seeing this right. It just helps build
Speaker 1: trust because it allows the other person to know. I
Speaker 1: don't ever have to go searching. I don't ever have
Speaker 1: to go asking my partner, and our relationship is one
Speaker 1: where we are transparent, where we offer these things up,
Speaker 1: where we're not, you know, holding secrets. It doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that you aren't allowed to have things that are private. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a My therapist impressed upon me that there's a
Speaker 1: difference between privacy and secrecy. So you are allowed to
Speaker 1: have things that are private. I have a journal. I
Speaker 1: have many journals. I've been writing a journal since I
Speaker 1: was god a good since I was a tot, honestly,
Speaker 1: so I have many private things that I don't have
Speaker 1: to offer up to anyone. But there are things, and
Speaker 1: you know, you know exactly what the things are where
Speaker 1: you know, you know your partner would feel safer if
Speaker 1: they knew that, then offer it. You know, there's nothing
Speaker 1: to lose and everything to gain, which is trust. And
Speaker 1: you do not have a relationship without trust, period point blank?
Speaker 1: What else? What else? What else? Established? What cheating means
Speaker 1: to you? I really, you know, we make a lot
Speaker 1: of assumptions. It's honestly the same thing we do with sex,
Speaker 1: like that thing. And you've heard us talk about this
Speaker 1: on the show right that. I think Emilina Gosti brought
Speaker 1: this up to right where she had a partner who
Speaker 1: was doing something with her that he was doing with
Speaker 1: another partner, and she was like, I get that you're
Speaker 1: other partner like that, but I don't like that, right.
Speaker 1: So I think the same thing is true here when
Speaker 1: we're talking about cheating or any sort of expectations that
Speaker 1: we're setting in a relationship. What might have been an
Speaker 1: expectation in a previous relationship, what might be an expectation
Speaker 1: that you've seen on television or in movies or you know,
Speaker 1: read in a book, may not be the expectations in
Speaker 1: your relationship. So it's really important that the two of
Speaker 1: you or three four, however many of you are in
Speaker 1: the relationship sit down and say, what are our expectations,
Speaker 1: what do the like? What is our shared language? What
Speaker 1: does cheating mean?
Speaker 2: To us? Is cheating?
Speaker 1: A DM is cheating? You know, a flirt at work
Speaker 1: is cheating? Penetration? Like, what are we establishing as cheating?
Speaker 1: I think is important for both of you to start
Speaker 1: the relationship off knowing and in general like what are
Speaker 1: the other what are the other things? You want to
Speaker 1: make sure that you and your partner have agreed upon
Speaker 1: what the shared definition of what your shared definitions are
Speaker 1: also knowing, and I would encourage that those things get
Speaker 1: to evolve and shift and change over time. Right, because
Speaker 1: we're humans were and hopefully if we're doing our work,
Speaker 1: we are growing, which means that we're going to shift
Speaker 1: and something that might have meant might have had higher
Speaker 1: stakes for us at the beginning of the relationship and
Speaker 1: have the same intensity ten years in, right, or doesn't
Speaker 1: have the same intensity you know, two months in, and
Speaker 1: so being able to also check in about those expectations
Speaker 1: and allow them to shift as need be, whether it's
Speaker 1: to loosen or tighten. Yeah. And the final thing that
Speaker 1: I do want to repeat is it is because you
Speaker 1: know we've spent this episode talking about cheating. Second chances
Speaker 1: are always a possibility. You can always give somebody a
Speaker 1: second chance. People are allowed to grow, but you want
Speaker 1: to make sure that one that person has done their
Speaker 1: work and can and can articulate the work that they've
Speaker 1: done and the changes that they're making and will be
Speaker 1: making in order to earn your trust back. You want
Speaker 1: to also make sure that you if you are the
Speaker 1: person that the transgression was against. I believe I'm saying
Speaker 1: that right, if you are the person that experienced that transgression,
Speaker 1: you were you're impacted by that transgression. Rather, I should say,
Speaker 1: you want to make sure that you have also done
Speaker 1: your work, that you have taken the time that you
Speaker 1: need to even understand if you want to give a
Speaker 1: second chance, give a second chance, but make sure it
Speaker 1: is with your eyes open, it's with intention that you
Speaker 1: know what you're coming to the table and and you
Speaker 1: know what your boundaries are, and you can articulate that. Right,
Speaker 1: this is a line for me. You can't be in
Speaker 1: the DMS. If you are in the DMS with other people,
Speaker 1: then that is cause for this relationship to for me
Speaker 1: to leave this connection, or for this relationship to come
Speaker 1: to an end, whatever it is. Right, So, if you're
Speaker 1: coming back income with your eyes open and also articulate
Speaker 1: what the boundaries are, update the operating system of the relationship.
Speaker 1: What are our shared definitions? What are we establishing in
Speaker 1: this new path forward? Yeah? Yeah, ah, so I really,
Speaker 1: really really I'm so grateful to shawhim for this conversation
Speaker 1: and I hope that you took some stuff away from
Speaker 1: it too, and I would love to hear from you,
Speaker 1: so you can always you know, email me at tell
Speaker 1: Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also
Speaker 1: DM me on Instagram or at our tell Me Something
Speaker 1: Messy account as well. Yeah, I would love to know
Speaker 1: what resonates for you, what you're struggling with, what you
Speaker 1: what are your big O moments? If you will you're
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, anyways, I love you so so much.
Speaker 1: If you are enjoying this podcast and you are vibing
Speaker 1: with me and our guests, please please please do not
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Speaker 1: the show, out all, Right until next, time ask about
Speaker 1: the politics of that dick before you make it, spit
Speaker 1: make sure they eat the kitty before they beat the,
Speaker 1: kitty before fuckation or succation. Communication and in case you
Speaker 1: haven't heard it, yet today you are so deeply. LOVED
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