WEBVTT - Mark Ronson Finds The Perfect Sound 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:23.676 Pushkin. Before we get started, let's talk about Pushnick. Pushnick 0:00:23.796 --> 0:00:28.556 is a subscription program available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Subscriptions 0:00:29.076 --> 0:00:32.156 members will get access to bonus content like extended versions 0:00:32.156 --> 0:00:35.476 of Our Beastie Boys and Brian Eno episodes. You'll also 0:00:35.516 --> 0:00:39.036 get ad free listening to many of your favorite podcasts 0:00:39.076 --> 0:00:43.556 like Revisionist History, Cautionary Tales, The Happiness Lab, and Ours 0:00:43.596 --> 0:00:46.596 Broken Record. You can try it for free for seven days. 0:00:47.036 --> 0:00:59.716 Sign up for Pushnick and Apple podcast subscriptions. Mark Ronson's 0:00:59.756 --> 0:01:02.396 big break as a producer came from working with Amy 0:01:02.436 --> 0:01:04.996 Winehouse to find the perfect sound for her career to 0:01:05.036 --> 0:01:10.476 find an album Back to Black, I Have No Time 0:01:10.716 --> 0:01:23.516 to Champions with his same save. Since then, Ronson's gone 0:01:23.516 --> 0:01:26.196 on to win an Oscar, a Golden Globe, and seven 0:01:26.236 --> 0:01:30.036 Grammys for producing chart topping hits for artists like Lady Gaga, 0:01:30.236 --> 0:01:35.276 Adele and Bruno Mars. Ronson's sound is often associated with danceable, 0:01:35.396 --> 0:01:39.476 driving rhythm sections, which makes sense considering his background as 0:01:39.476 --> 0:01:43.756 a renowned DJ. Recently, Ronson's put his musical knowledge on 0:01:43.756 --> 0:01:46.996 display as the host of The Fader's new podcast Uncovered, 0:01:47.476 --> 0:01:50.196 and this month he'll start in a multipart documentary for 0:01:50.236 --> 0:01:53.956 Apple TV Plus that explores the evolution of music technology. 0:01:55.076 --> 0:01:57.716 In today's interview with Rick Rubin, we'll hear Mark talk 0:01:57.796 --> 0:02:00.076 about the day he met Amy Winehouse and how she 0:02:00.156 --> 0:02:03.356 might have confused him for Rick Rubin. Mark also talks 0:02:03.356 --> 0:02:05.796 about the night he fell in love with Djane, growing 0:02:05.876 --> 0:02:08.796 up with his stepdad and foreigner, and how being isolated 0:02:08.796 --> 0:02:11.676 from his studio during the pandemic caused him to think 0:02:11.676 --> 0:02:14.436 his days as a pop music producer might be over. 0:02:18.396 --> 0:02:21.196 This is broken record liner notes for the digital Age. 0:02:21.316 --> 0:02:30.116 I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick Rubin and Mark ronson where 0:02:30.116 --> 0:02:33.596 did you grow up? I grew up in London. I 0:02:33.636 --> 0:02:36.756 was born in England and I lived there until I 0:02:36.836 --> 0:02:41.316 was eight, and then my mother remarried my stepdad. He 0:02:41.356 --> 0:02:43.516 was English a musician, but he lived in New York, 0:02:43.556 --> 0:02:46.796 so we all moved to New York. I definitely consider 0:02:46.836 --> 0:02:48.836 myself in New Yorker. I mean I spent time going 0:02:48.836 --> 0:02:51.276 back and forth now between London and New York, and 0:02:51.356 --> 0:02:54.076 I've sent blocks of time in England, and I feel 0:02:54.156 --> 0:02:56.596 very connected to England, but I do feel like a 0:02:56.636 --> 0:03:01.156 New Yorker. Do you remember much of your life from 0:03:01.156 --> 0:03:04.956 eight years old down. I don't think I remembered life 0:03:05.156 --> 0:03:08.396 in London is and I was taking it in geographically 0:03:08.396 --> 0:03:10.476 because you're you know, when your kid is just where 0:03:10.476 --> 0:03:13.716 you live. But I definitely have memories from even though 0:03:13.756 --> 0:03:17.036 my real father is not and i'd say real father 0:03:17.076 --> 0:03:19.116 it sounds like a slight to my stepfather. I mean, 0:03:19.156 --> 0:03:21.356 they're both really important figures in my life. At my 0:03:21.436 --> 0:03:25.716 dad was really into music. He wasn't the musician, and 0:03:25.756 --> 0:03:29.276 I just remember them throwing a lot of parties and 0:03:29.556 --> 0:03:31.436 waking up in the middle of the night, like four 0:03:31.516 --> 0:03:35.796 years old, going down and just seeing like all these 0:03:35.876 --> 0:03:39.316 grown ups in this room, as you know, waist high 0:03:39.356 --> 0:03:43.156 and sort of oblivious to like the hubbub and the mess. 0:03:43.196 --> 0:03:45.876 I would just go towards the speaker of wherever the 0:03:45.956 --> 0:03:48.396 music was coming from, and I would just sit in 0:03:48.436 --> 0:03:50.716 front of the speaker and I would play air drums. 0:03:50.796 --> 0:03:54.156 I would mime the drums and like, I have memories 0:03:54.196 --> 0:03:56.876 like that, a lot of formative memories about music. And 0:03:56.916 --> 0:04:00.876 then my dad did get me like a kid's drum kit, 0:04:00.956 --> 0:04:02.556 because when I would wake up in the middle of 0:04:02.556 --> 0:04:05.876 the night and go jam in front of the speakers, 0:04:05.916 --> 0:04:09.356 somebody was I mean, there was always like Nigel Elson 0:04:09.356 --> 0:04:12.076 who played drums with Elton John, or like Simon Kirk 0:04:12.116 --> 0:04:14.396 from Bad Company. Someone was always over like late night, 0:04:14.396 --> 0:04:16.396 and I think someone was like, you know, pointed and 0:04:16.476 --> 0:04:18.516 was like, hey, you should get your son a pair 0:04:18.516 --> 0:04:20.796 of drums. Like he's you know, he looks like he's 0:04:20.836 --> 0:04:23.556 really into it. So I remember playing along with a 0:04:23.636 --> 0:04:28.356 drum kit to the radio. Describe the household in England, 0:04:28.436 --> 0:04:31.916 like what was your room? Like, describe the place? You know, 0:04:31.956 --> 0:04:34.276 when I think about it, it does come back. So 0:04:34.316 --> 0:04:38.156 I remember a bunk bed. I had meningitis when I 0:04:38.196 --> 0:04:40.476 was a young kid, which is quite heavy. I didn't 0:04:40.476 --> 0:04:43.996 have the there's two, there's viral, and there's something else. 0:04:43.996 --> 0:04:46.396 So I had the one that you don't die from, obviously, 0:04:46.996 --> 0:04:49.596 but I had to be taken to the hospital and 0:04:49.716 --> 0:04:52.636 have like a spinal tap. I remember being in my 0:04:52.716 --> 0:04:56.916 bedroom having I think, like having to be held down 0:04:56.956 --> 0:04:59.276 and like, I mean, I don't have like the most 0:04:59.316 --> 0:05:02.956 pleasant memories. Also my house, childhood house growing up, was 0:05:02.996 --> 0:05:06.996 a pretty turbulent house. My parents were. They were like 0:05:07.036 --> 0:05:10.036 a young couple. They had me quite young. I remember 0:05:10.076 --> 0:05:14.316 fights and slamming doors and a lot of yelling and tears. 0:05:15.676 --> 0:05:17.436 That's how I mean. I hate to say it sounds 0:05:17.436 --> 0:05:18.916 like a downer and I love both of my parents, 0:05:18.916 --> 0:05:21.796 but that's how I remember growing up in London. Yeah, 0:05:21.836 --> 0:05:24.596 And did you have brothers and sisters? I had brothers 0:05:24.596 --> 0:05:28.236 and sisters. My mom and dad had three of us, 0:05:28.396 --> 0:05:33.196 me and two sisters who were twins. And then when 0:05:33.236 --> 0:05:36.436 we moved to New York, my mom remarried and had 0:05:36.476 --> 0:05:39.036 two more kids. My dad remarried and had three more 0:05:39.036 --> 0:05:40.556 in England, so I have a big family. And then 0:05:40.596 --> 0:05:43.636 two stepbrothers, so there's ten of us all together. Did 0:05:43.636 --> 0:05:48.316 you move to New York four based on your mom's 0:05:48.316 --> 0:05:50.316 relationship or did you move to New York and then 0:05:50.396 --> 0:05:53.276 your mom found the relationship. No, we moved based on 0:05:53.316 --> 0:05:57.116 the relationship. I see. We moved as she had fallen 0:05:57.156 --> 0:05:58.796 in love with my stepdad. They fell in love with 0:05:58.836 --> 0:06:02.436 each other, and he was like, come live with me 0:06:02.476 --> 0:06:04.596 in New York. I mean, that wasn't the easiest thing, 0:06:04.636 --> 0:06:06.796 I'm sure, because I know my dad didn't want us 0:06:06.836 --> 0:06:09.356 to leave. But you know, somehow we go out to 0:06:09.396 --> 0:06:12.076 New York. And would you say your relationship with both 0:06:12.116 --> 0:06:16.116 of them was decent with both my parents or both 0:06:16.316 --> 0:06:19.516 my dads, but let's say both your dad's first. Yeah, 0:06:19.556 --> 0:06:24.396 definitely my dad like a lot of like English guys, 0:06:24.476 --> 0:06:26.596 like growing up in the sixties, like he was like 0:06:26.636 --> 0:06:30.356 a soul fanatic, like he had forty fives of stacks 0:06:30.476 --> 0:06:33.436 winder k frog like not just that kind of obvious 0:06:33.516 --> 0:06:36.956 things and sorry, And I remember he loved like he 0:06:37.076 --> 0:06:40.476 loved horns and like soul music. And I even remember 0:06:40.876 --> 0:06:42.636 when I was like really young, he like gave me 0:06:42.676 --> 0:06:44.996 the CDs like I bought this. It was Day Last Soul, 0:06:45.156 --> 0:06:47.036 the first album three Ft High and Rising. He was like, 0:06:47.076 --> 0:06:49.076 I don't get it, Like you know, he bought it 0:06:49.076 --> 0:06:51.276 because somebody who knew that he liked soul or groove 0:06:51.356 --> 0:06:54.036 music said you should check this out. I remember he 0:06:54.116 --> 0:06:57.436 had grand Master Flash in the Furious five the Message 0:06:57.476 --> 0:06:59.556 and he played that all the time, Like so I 0:06:59.596 --> 0:07:02.556 got this. I think I got this great love of 0:07:03.156 --> 0:07:06.796 very rhythmic based music from him. And then my stepdad 0:07:07.716 --> 0:07:10.836 would let me, you know, around with his equipment. He 0:07:10.916 --> 0:07:15.436 had a ky little eight track recorders and I mean 0:07:15.476 --> 0:07:17.676 he even had like a synclavier, which is I'm sure 0:07:17.716 --> 0:07:21.196 you remember this crazy two hundred thousand dollars like programmable 0:07:21.236 --> 0:07:23.676 sequencer that yeah. I mean he must have been laughing 0:07:23.716 --> 0:07:25.356 when he was just like, yeah, go teach yourself how 0:07:25.356 --> 0:07:28.236 to use that. But I could, like very wrote, teach 0:07:28.316 --> 0:07:31.276 myself how to remake like turns trend Derby's wishing well 0:07:31.316 --> 0:07:33.356 on it. So anyway, the fact that I got this 0:07:33.636 --> 0:07:36.636 love of this music from my dad and then my 0:07:36.716 --> 0:07:41.076 stepdad sort of fostered my basically like wanting to be 0:07:41.156 --> 0:07:43.556 around equipment, wanting to play around with it, do that stuff. 0:07:43.556 --> 0:07:46.076 So they were both really important in that. Did you 0:07:46.076 --> 0:07:48.636 ever go on tour with your dad? I did when 0:07:48.676 --> 0:07:51.916 I was six or seven. I mean I guess Foreigner. 0:07:51.956 --> 0:07:54.316 That was foreign of four, you know, like Jukebox Hero 0:07:54.396 --> 0:07:56.396 on Urgin and Waiting for a Girl like you. They 0:07:56.396 --> 0:08:01.756 were playing these massive places and he took my mom 0:08:01.836 --> 0:08:04.916 and me and my two sisters on tour and it 0:08:04.956 --> 0:08:06.476 was amazing. I mean it was my first time going 0:08:06.476 --> 0:08:08.716 around America, going to like Texas and going to six 0:08:08.796 --> 0:08:10.716 Flags and just like this shiit like for a kid, 0:08:10.876 --> 0:08:14.796 And the drum riser was probably like twelve feet tall, 0:08:14.876 --> 0:08:17.036 like you know, these big kind of rock shows, and 0:08:17.396 --> 0:08:20.476 they would let me go backstage behind everybody and like 0:08:20.516 --> 0:08:23.716 crouch behind the drum riser and I would just play. 0:08:23.756 --> 0:08:25.996 I knew the set so well, I would mind what 0:08:26.116 --> 0:08:29.236 the drummer Dennis Elliott was doing. I definitely like that's 0:08:29.276 --> 0:08:32.116 just certainly an ongoing theme for me. Was there every 0:08:32.116 --> 0:08:36.036 time that you imagine being a musician like being a 0:08:36.076 --> 0:08:40.716 performer musician. I mean I played in school bands, you know, 0:08:40.876 --> 0:08:43.316 and in my high school band, and so it's like 0:08:43.356 --> 0:08:46.796 this New York era of that we were like in 0:08:46.836 --> 0:08:52.716 the band sort of mixed racially. There were two black musicians. 0:08:52.756 --> 0:08:55.036 There was me and two of my friends, and it 0:08:55.116 --> 0:08:58.476 was like the era of the black rock Coalition of 0:08:58.516 --> 0:09:01.436 like twenty four seven, Spies Living Color, Like we loved 0:09:01.436 --> 0:09:05.236 all those bands. And then I was super into the 0:09:05.276 --> 0:09:07.916 Black Crows. Who knows have played like two Black Crows 0:09:07.996 --> 0:09:10.036 covers in our set to I didn't even know. Hard 0:09:10.076 --> 0:09:13.276 to Handle was by Otis Redding. And then there was 0:09:13.316 --> 0:09:16.396 like this hip hops. I was discovering hip hop, so 0:09:16.436 --> 0:09:18.916 we'd sort of had rappers come on stage. So anyway, 0:09:18.956 --> 0:09:20.396 this is my band that I played with. We had 0:09:20.436 --> 0:09:22.596 opened for the spin Doctors and stuff at Wetlands and 0:09:22.636 --> 0:09:26.556 play The Bitter End. But I was the worst musician 0:09:26.556 --> 0:09:28.956 in the band, like they get to other musicians could 0:09:29.036 --> 0:09:31.716 shred and I like had feel, but I was just 0:09:31.876 --> 0:09:34.436 like I wasn't going to be slash. I wasn't gonna 0:09:34.436 --> 0:09:37.556 be Vernon Reid. But I got into DJing and I 0:09:37.636 --> 0:09:39.916 always was a fan of like liner notes, and i'd 0:09:39.996 --> 0:09:43.436 weirdly like read Billboard when I was six. So there's 0:09:43.636 --> 0:09:46.676 things started to happen that I started to amass a 0:09:46.676 --> 0:09:48.916 bit of a tool kit that was like, okay, well 0:09:49.316 --> 0:09:51.356 I'm not good enough at this one thing. I'm not 0:09:51.396 --> 0:09:53.516 really good enough at that thing. But if I amass 0:09:53.596 --> 0:09:56.876 this sort of like AmAm of things that I love 0:09:56.916 --> 0:09:59.476 and I'm interested in, and that's what led me to 0:09:59.836 --> 0:10:02.716 being a producer. Oh why did you play in the band? 0:10:03.396 --> 0:10:06.156 I played rhythm guitar, but like the other guy had 0:10:06.196 --> 0:10:09.236 like the like Cramer, like the Kip Winger like guitar. 0:10:09.196 --> 0:10:11.716 I was like shredding and like then it'd be like 0:10:11.756 --> 0:10:13.836 my time is still in the set and like pre 0:10:14.276 --> 0:10:16.956 like just playing like an average white band riff or something. 0:10:16.996 --> 0:10:19.436 But I did love it. I mean I actually remember 0:10:19.476 --> 0:10:22.516 my best friend from high school talking to him like 0:10:22.556 --> 0:10:25.756 in the you know, sixteen, plotting your dreams, and I 0:10:25.836 --> 0:10:27.116 was like, yeah, I think I'm going to be like 0:10:27.116 --> 0:10:30.476 a guitarist in a in a band and all these things. 0:10:30.516 --> 0:10:32.916 And Alex Kane he's still one of my best friends. 0:10:32.916 --> 0:10:34.716 He goes, I just see you as more of like 0:10:34.716 --> 0:10:37.356 a behind the scenes type of guy, and at that 0:10:37.476 --> 0:10:39.956 moment I was like, you know, I probably like hung 0:10:39.996 --> 0:10:41.476 up with him. I was like, fuck you dude, like 0:10:41.556 --> 0:10:43.476 you don't know where I'm going, and he was like 0:10:43.516 --> 0:10:47.476 completely right. Actually, how old were you with the first 0:10:47.476 --> 0:10:49.996 time he started going to clubs ader when I was 0:10:50.076 --> 0:10:54.676 thirteen or fourteen. I loved, like, I just loved all 0:10:54.716 --> 0:10:56.716 these like English but I had the good things as 0:10:56.716 --> 0:10:59.076 well about going back to England once or twice you 0:10:59.236 --> 0:11:02.316 to visit my dad. I would discover things like Blur 0:11:02.556 --> 0:11:05.796 and the Wonder Stuff and just EMF and just you know, 0:11:06.516 --> 0:11:08.916 things that were just like really cool. That was you know, 0:11:09.636 --> 0:11:11.796 back when it would take six months for a band 0:11:11.796 --> 0:11:13.996 like that to get to Americas. You know, now everything's 0:11:13.996 --> 0:11:17.756 so global and instantaneous. So I would get really excited 0:11:17.756 --> 0:11:20.516 when these bands would come over to play in New 0:11:20.596 --> 0:11:23.116 York at venues like the Marquis or the Ritz. But 0:11:23.356 --> 0:11:25.676 of course I was twelve thirteen years old. My mother 0:11:25.676 --> 0:11:28.516 wouldn't let me go to these shows. So I managed 0:11:28.556 --> 0:11:31.716 to get a job writing for this inter school music 0:11:31.756 --> 0:11:34.156 paper because I could tell her that I was going 0:11:34.196 --> 0:11:36.796 to review the shows and she would let me. She 0:11:36.836 --> 0:11:41.676 would let me go. And I interned at Rolling Stone 0:11:41.916 --> 0:11:45.716 Magazine in the summers when I was like twelve, thirteen 0:11:45.716 --> 0:11:48.676 and fourteen maybe, so I'd occasionally get like a freebee 0:11:48.716 --> 0:11:51.556 tickets and go to shows. And I loved, I mean, 0:11:51.596 --> 0:11:53.796 I loved going to shows. It was like, I remember 0:11:54.356 --> 0:11:58.116 the Marquis so well. I remember like different venues. What 0:11:58.196 --> 0:12:01.396 was the Rolling Stone office like when you were a kid? 0:12:01.476 --> 0:12:04.316 What did that feel like to go there? That was incredible? 0:12:04.356 --> 0:12:06.556 I mean I just felt like, I mean, I'm sure 0:12:06.596 --> 0:12:09.076 it was even more relaxed. It wasn't like it was 0:12:09.236 --> 0:12:11.356 in the seventies, but more relaxant was now. And I 0:12:11.436 --> 0:12:14.116 was just this kid. It was like, they just give 0:12:14.196 --> 0:12:16.636 me any job that could fit in, whether it's sometimes 0:12:16.676 --> 0:12:19.956 like manning the switchboard because you had to like answer 0:12:19.956 --> 0:12:22.916 the phone and like send people to different extensions. And 0:12:23.276 --> 0:12:25.636 I would answer the phone. I'm sure my voice for 0:12:25.716 --> 0:12:27.996 the first year or two like hadn't even broken yet, 0:12:28.036 --> 0:12:31.956 so I'd be like hello, and then I would run around, 0:12:31.996 --> 0:12:34.876 and it was back in the day when they compiled 0:12:34.916 --> 0:12:38.876 their own album chart by calling thirty mom and pop 0:12:38.956 --> 0:12:41.756 stores and doing a media and average and then deciding 0:12:41.756 --> 0:12:43.396 what the number one record was. So it would be 0:12:43.436 --> 0:12:45.516 my job to call. And there were people there like 0:12:45.636 --> 0:12:50.156 David Frick, like Legends, Sheila Rogers, Anthony to Curtis, David Wild, 0:12:50.276 --> 0:12:53.076 these really cool people that were just like thought it 0:12:53.156 --> 0:12:54.516 was like kind of funny though it was just like 0:12:54.556 --> 0:12:56.796 this kid running around and they could tell how into 0:12:56.796 --> 0:12:59.476 it I was. I realized how lucky I was, and 0:12:59.516 --> 0:13:03.196 how lucky I was how they treated me, like, yeah, absolutely. 0:13:03.876 --> 0:13:06.356 What would you say was the first music that you 0:13:06.436 --> 0:13:09.116 felt like with your music as opposed to your parents 0:13:09.116 --> 0:13:13.796 parents music? My parents were like quite. I can't remember 0:13:13.836 --> 0:13:16.836 if like my stepdad, even though it wasn't his music, 0:13:16.916 --> 0:13:19.196 like he was interested in like the stuff that I 0:13:19.276 --> 0:13:22.836 was into. But I definitely would say that early nineties 0:13:23.396 --> 0:13:27.596 hip hop in New York, things like Black Moon, Pete 0:13:27.636 --> 0:13:30.796 Rock and See like when I was fifteen sixteen, when 0:13:30.796 --> 0:13:33.076 I discovered those things, that was really like my own 0:13:33.196 --> 0:13:36.516 because even the heavier rock stuff wasn't that much of 0:13:36.556 --> 0:13:39.596 a far cry from my stepdad and foreign and the music. 0:13:39.716 --> 0:13:42.916 You know, he was shredding. So I would say that 0:13:43.436 --> 0:13:45.236 the New York hip hop seeing the stuff that I 0:13:45.236 --> 0:13:48.796 would hear on like Stretcher Armstrong. Yeah, would your friends 0:13:48.796 --> 0:13:51.076 in school have similar tastes? Would you say? I had 0:13:51.076 --> 0:13:53.796 two best friends in school, Alex Kane, who told me 0:13:53.836 --> 0:13:55.556 I was never going to be a guitar hero. And 0:13:55.556 --> 0:13:58.836 then my friend Daniel Sally, and he was. He was 0:13:58.836 --> 0:14:00.516 like the first one to have Eric b and rock 0:14:00.556 --> 0:14:04.276 him paid in full. And then there were like three 0:14:04.396 --> 0:14:07.316 or four black students that I was friends with in 0:14:07.436 --> 0:14:09.876 school that like if I would kind of put me 0:14:09.916 --> 0:14:12.396 onto stuff. And then if I heard a song on 0:14:12.396 --> 0:14:14.236 the radio that I'd taped on a radio show and 0:14:14.236 --> 0:14:15.556 I didn't know what it was, I would bring it 0:14:15.556 --> 0:14:18.436 into school the next day and be like, hey, like Conrad, 0:14:18.476 --> 0:14:20.036 can you listen to this and tell me what song 0:14:20.116 --> 0:14:24.156 this is? And you'd be like, that's NAS halftime, like 0:14:24.196 --> 0:14:28.596 you've never heard the song before. And then those comrade 0:14:28.676 --> 0:14:31.676 Michael and Jerry, who were the you know, three black 0:14:31.716 --> 0:14:35.076 students in my class. They were in a musical talent 0:14:35.156 --> 0:14:37.636 show and they knew that I had this equipment at home, 0:14:37.996 --> 0:14:40.876 These samplers that were like, I barely knew how to 0:14:40.996 --> 0:14:42.956 use and they were like, do you want to try 0:14:42.956 --> 0:14:45.156 and make us like a track for this talent show? 0:14:45.196 --> 0:14:48.036 It was like a judge by Reverend Al Sharpton. It 0:14:48.076 --> 0:14:53.476 was in Stuyvesant. It's like cool, And my understanding of 0:14:53.516 --> 0:14:55.996 how the samplers worked was so wrote that I had 0:14:56.036 --> 0:14:58.276 to make sure that the samples were the exact same 0:14:58.316 --> 0:15:00.956 tempo and hit play at the exact same time. I 0:15:00.996 --> 0:15:02.876 didn't know how to sink anything up. It was just 0:15:02.916 --> 0:15:07.956 like that. And then Michael Leo was like, you know, 0:15:08.716 --> 0:15:10.756 it's like what you're doing is very similar to DJ, 0:15:11.276 --> 0:15:12.876 like you know anything about DJ? And I was like, no, 0:15:12.956 --> 0:15:14.956 what's that? And he's like, well, you're taking records and 0:15:14.996 --> 0:15:17.876 you're mixing, you're blending tempos at the same thing. And 0:15:17.916 --> 0:15:20.276 I think that was one of the first things I 0:15:20.316 --> 0:15:22.356 ever put the seed in my head of like DJ, 0:15:22.636 --> 0:15:24.956 Like what's what is that? And how old we at 0:15:24.996 --> 0:15:28.116 that point in time? Sixteen and what was the first 0:15:28.116 --> 0:15:31.716 time that you went to a club to check out DJs, 0:15:31.716 --> 0:15:33.956 like where you were aware that there was a DJ 0:15:34.116 --> 0:15:37.196 controlling the music in the room. I remember it really well. 0:15:37.556 --> 0:15:39.956 My friends would all go to these raves that were 0:15:39.956 --> 0:15:43.196 put on by NASA because it was all ages and 0:15:43.236 --> 0:15:46.476 your acid, shrooms, ecstasy. You know, you'd be tripping and 0:15:46.636 --> 0:15:51.076 everyone go dance to techno and then there was you'd 0:15:51.116 --> 0:15:53.556 go and you'd like hook up in the chill out room. 0:15:53.676 --> 0:15:56.916 I keep hearing Ricky Palla my head saying, I kids 0:15:56.916 --> 0:15:59.676 say heckno to techno. He's like, you know his rapid 0:15:59.716 --> 0:16:02.116 he used to do before the VSTs went on, which 0:16:02.156 --> 0:16:05.956 is that's so funny. Yeah, But I just couldn't get 0:16:06.156 --> 0:16:09.676 with the techno. I wasn't like snobby or something. It 0:16:09.716 --> 0:16:11.876 was just because it was fast and it was like 0:16:12.076 --> 0:16:14.236 it was straight. And I would always end up in 0:16:14.236 --> 0:16:16.476 the chill out room where they'd be like an interesting 0:16:16.556 --> 0:16:20.716 DJ like Dmitri from Delight or somebody like that. And 0:16:20.756 --> 0:16:24.916 there was this DJ named Annie that was now I 0:16:24.956 --> 0:16:26.676 know him and his real name is Annie A and 0:16:26.716 --> 0:16:29.876 I but it was one like O n Dashy and 0:16:29.956 --> 0:16:33.116 he was killing it. It was like cutting doubles of something. 0:16:33.956 --> 0:16:37.396 And I went and I was just so transfixed, and 0:16:37.436 --> 0:16:40.996 probably because I was, you know, on some psychedelic drugs 0:16:40.996 --> 0:16:44.196 as well, and I was so captivated, and I really 0:16:44.716 --> 0:16:46.436 think that that was just like one of those moments 0:16:46.436 --> 0:16:48.796 where it's just like, oh, I want to do that now, 0:16:48.836 --> 0:16:51.996 because like not only did I love the music that 0:16:52.036 --> 0:16:54.796 he was playing, but obviously like watching you know, the 0:16:54.876 --> 0:16:58.596 hands and it was just so it was so interesting. 0:16:58.636 --> 0:17:00.836 So yeah, so that was kind of it. When you 0:17:00.876 --> 0:17:04.356 went to the NASA parties as kid. What with the venues. 0:17:04.956 --> 0:17:07.756 It was the shelter. It was that giant place down 0:17:07.756 --> 0:17:10.636 on varick On. I think it was like one seventy 0:17:10.716 --> 0:17:13.596 bar next really close to Wetlands, so it was this 0:17:13.756 --> 0:17:17.836 really big giant warehouse and you would sort of like 0:17:18.276 --> 0:17:21.836 wait online and it was crazy that the accessories that 0:17:21.916 --> 0:17:24.396 people were where. It was like you would take a 0:17:25.356 --> 0:17:28.916 dog toy of like Burt and Ernie the sesame street 0:17:28.916 --> 0:17:31.916 guys and put it on a on a necklace around 0:17:31.956 --> 0:17:34.076 like a shoe string around and then have like ski 0:17:34.196 --> 0:17:37.676 goggles and then you would have to like take your 0:17:37.796 --> 0:17:40.716 pumas like the Puma clides or like these classic shoes 0:17:40.716 --> 0:17:43.636 to like the guy that would put platform like rubber platforms. 0:17:43.676 --> 0:17:46.796 It was like, but yeah, everybody looked like this kind 0:17:46.836 --> 0:17:49.396 of like freak. I mean, I guess it wasn't that 0:17:49.916 --> 0:17:53.956 far from when you watch that HBO show that scares 0:17:53.956 --> 0:17:55.596 me so much because the kids are just getting so 0:17:55.636 --> 0:17:57.716 fucked up, and like, I'm like, a kids really like that. 0:17:57.756 --> 0:18:00.316 But I'm like, oh shit, we were like that. It's 0:18:00.356 --> 0:18:03.196 funny as you're describing it. I never made the connection before, 0:18:03.196 --> 0:18:05.476 but it sounds like we could be talking about glam 0:18:05.516 --> 0:18:08.876 and glitter rock, you know, like because it's definitely related 0:18:08.916 --> 0:18:12.236 like that, the while the look isn't the same. Yeah, 0:18:12.356 --> 0:18:16.796 platforms and yeah, yeah, and just looking like you wanted 0:18:16.876 --> 0:18:19.436 to know, like you were really like marking who your 0:18:19.516 --> 0:18:22.076 tribe was. Yeah, and it looked more almost like what 0:18:22.076 --> 0:18:24.276 you'd wear on stage as opposed to what you'd wear 0:18:24.396 --> 0:18:27.596 being an audience member. Yeah, it was. It was definitely 0:18:27.636 --> 0:18:30.356 like you were wearing stuff to draw attention to yourself. 0:18:30.396 --> 0:18:33.156 For Shure, it was like peacocking. Oh what was your 0:18:33.156 --> 0:18:37.316 first DJ gig? It was at a bar on the 0:18:37.396 --> 0:18:41.636 Upper east Side. I had my turntables for probably three weeks, 0:18:41.676 --> 0:18:43.356 and there was a guy that I knew that through 0:18:43.436 --> 0:18:46.276 parties where they let under h kids and on bars 0:18:46.316 --> 0:18:48.196 on the Upper east Side. There were places like that 0:18:48.796 --> 0:18:51.116 and the Upper west Side, and I just remember hassling 0:18:51.196 --> 0:18:54.236 him and calling him and I probably lied instead of 0:18:54.356 --> 0:18:57.156 in d DJing for three months as opposed to three weeks. 0:18:57.156 --> 0:19:00.196 And I had one crate of records, like about half 0:19:00.196 --> 0:19:02.156 a crate of hip hop and half a crate of 0:19:02.196 --> 0:19:05.876 like funk and soul. Had no idea what I was doing, really, 0:19:06.516 --> 0:19:09.516 and I hustled him like into giving me this gig, 0:19:09.716 --> 0:19:12.236 and I had to take my turntables, you know, in 0:19:12.236 --> 0:19:15.036 the back of a cab. It sounds like I'm exaggerating, 0:19:15.036 --> 0:19:17.036 but it was a snowstorm in New York. I'm sure, 0:19:17.476 --> 0:19:19.276 Like I'm sure the money I paid on the cab 0:19:19.836 --> 0:19:22.716 was more than I got and there were like nineteen 0:19:22.796 --> 0:19:26.036 people that showed up. But I do remember playing average 0:19:26.036 --> 0:19:28.636 white band love Your Life, which is the sample for 0:19:28.716 --> 0:19:30.676 check the rhyme by Tribe called Quest, which was like 0:19:30.716 --> 0:19:32.476 a big song at that time. And I remember like 0:19:33.276 --> 0:19:35.236 this guy coming up to me and being like, oh, 0:19:35.276 --> 0:19:37.236 that's cool, Like how do you know about this music? 0:19:37.316 --> 0:19:41.676 And I just remember, even when nobody was dancing this 0:19:41.876 --> 0:19:45.796 clear floor, just this feeling of like it wasn't so 0:19:45.876 --> 0:19:49.716 much the control, like from this Bengali thing of being 0:19:49.716 --> 0:19:51.956 like I could control what everyways listened to, but just 0:19:51.996 --> 0:19:54.556 this idea that what I play could affect the mood 0:19:54.596 --> 0:19:56.316 of the room, or if I'd played things in the 0:19:56.396 --> 0:19:58.796 right sequence, or I could you know, and I was 0:19:58.836 --> 0:20:01.236 really bad at that point. I could barely probably put 0:20:01.236 --> 0:20:04.196 two records together like and keep the tempo going. But 0:20:04.356 --> 0:20:06.636 I just I knew that that was what I wanted 0:20:06.676 --> 0:20:08.916 to do. We'll be right back with more from Mark. 0:20:09.116 --> 0:20:16.596 After a quick break, we're back with more of Rick 0:20:16.676 --> 0:20:20.396 Rubin's conversation with Mark Ronson. Do you think of yourself 0:20:20.436 --> 0:20:24.276 primarily as a DJ or a producer or is it both. 0:20:24.876 --> 0:20:28.156 I think I always wanted to make music, and then 0:20:28.196 --> 0:20:30.356 the djaying thing took off in a way I couldn't 0:20:30.396 --> 0:20:34.396 have really foreseen or imagine. The weird thing is that 0:20:34.436 --> 0:20:37.676 they're very separate, but they inform each other so so much, 0:20:37.676 --> 0:20:39.636 and sometimes not in a great way. Like back in 0:20:39.676 --> 0:20:42.036 the days when I was supporting myself by playing five 0:20:42.156 --> 0:20:45.036 six nights a week before I really made it as 0:20:45.036 --> 0:20:47.836 a producer, and you're playing like other people's records and 0:20:47.956 --> 0:20:51.276 Neptunes records in Timberland, and like coming into the studio 0:20:51.316 --> 0:20:53.676 and trying to like find your own voice. The next 0:20:53.756 --> 0:20:56.756 day when you're just clouded with like you know, seeing 0:20:56.796 --> 0:21:00.876