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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Before we get started, let's talk about Pushnick. Pushnick

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Speaker 1: is a subscription program available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Subscriptions

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Speaker 1: members will get access to bonus content like extended versions

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Speaker 1: of Our Beastie Boys and Brian Eno episodes. You'll also

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Speaker 1: get ad free listening to many of your favorite podcasts

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Speaker 1: like Revisionist History, Cautionary Tales, The Happiness Lab, and Ours

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Speaker 1: Broken Record. You can try it for free for seven days.

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Speaker 1: Sign up for Pushnick and Apple podcast subscriptions. Mark Ronson's

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Speaker 1: big break as a producer came from working with Amy

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Speaker 1: Winehouse to find the perfect sound for her career to

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Speaker 1: find an album Back to Black, I Have No Time

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Speaker 1: to Champions with his same save. Since then, Ronson's gone

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Speaker 1: on to win an Oscar, a Golden Globe, and seven

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Speaker 1: Grammys for producing chart topping hits for artists like Lady Gaga,

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Speaker 1: Adele and Bruno Mars. Ronson's sound is often associated with danceable,

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Speaker 1: driving rhythm sections, which makes sense considering his background as

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Speaker 1: a renowned DJ. Recently, Ronson's put his musical knowledge on

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Speaker 1: display as the host of The Fader's new podcast Uncovered,

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Speaker 1: and this month he'll start in a multipart documentary for

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Speaker 1: Apple TV Plus that explores the evolution of music technology.

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Speaker 1: In today's interview with Rick Rubin, we'll hear Mark talk

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Speaker 1: about the day he met Amy Winehouse and how she

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Speaker 1: might have confused him for Rick Rubin. Mark also talks

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Speaker 1: about the night he fell in love with Djane, growing

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Speaker 1: up with his stepdad and foreigner, and how being isolated

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Speaker 1: from his studio during the pandemic caused him to think

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Speaker 1: his days as a pop music producer might be over.

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Speaker 1: This is broken record liner notes for the digital Age.

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Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick Rubin and Mark ronson where

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Speaker 1: did you grow up? I grew up in London. I

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Speaker 1: was born in England and I lived there until I

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Speaker 1: was eight, and then my mother remarried my stepdad. He

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Speaker 1: was English a musician, but he lived in New York,

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Speaker 1: so we all moved to New York. I definitely consider

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Speaker 1: myself in New Yorker. I mean I spent time going

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Speaker 1: back and forth now between London and New York, and

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Speaker 1: I've sent blocks of time in England, and I feel

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Speaker 1: very connected to England, but I do feel like a

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Speaker 1: New Yorker. Do you remember much of your life from

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Speaker 1: eight years old down. I don't think I remembered life

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Speaker 1: in London is and I was taking it in geographically

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Speaker 1: because you're you know, when your kid is just where

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Speaker 1: you live. But I definitely have memories from even though

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Speaker 1: my real father is not and i'd say real father

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a slight to my stepfather. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're both really important figures in my life. At my

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Speaker 1: dad was really into music. He wasn't the musician, and

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Speaker 1: I just remember them throwing a lot of parties and

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Speaker 1: waking up in the middle of the night, like four

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Speaker 1: years old, going down and just seeing like all these

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Speaker 1: grown ups in this room, as you know, waist high

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Speaker 1: and sort of oblivious to like the hubbub and the mess.

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Speaker 1: I would just go towards the speaker of wherever the

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Speaker 1: music was coming from, and I would just sit in

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Speaker 1: front of the speaker and I would play air drums.

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Speaker 1: I would mime the drums and like, I have memories

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Speaker 1: like that, a lot of formative memories about music. And

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Speaker 1: then my dad did get me like a kid's drum kit,

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Speaker 1: because when I would wake up in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the night and go jam in front of the speakers,

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Speaker 1: somebody was I mean, there was always like Nigel Elson

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Speaker 1: who played drums with Elton John, or like Simon Kirk

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Speaker 1: from Bad Company. Someone was always over like late night,

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Speaker 1: and I think someone was like, you know, pointed and

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Speaker 1: was like, hey, you should get your son a pair

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Speaker 1: of drums. Like he's you know, he looks like he's

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Speaker 1: really into it. So I remember playing along with a

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Speaker 1: drum kit to the radio. Describe the household in England,

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Speaker 1: like what was your room? Like, describe the place? You know,

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Speaker 1: when I think about it, it does come back. So

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Speaker 1: I remember a bunk bed. I had meningitis when I

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Speaker 1: was a young kid, which is quite heavy. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have the there's two, there's viral, and there's something else.

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Speaker 1: So I had the one that you don't die from, obviously,

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Speaker 1: but I had to be taken to the hospital and

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Speaker 1: have like a spinal tap. I remember being in my

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Speaker 1: bedroom having I think, like having to be held down

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Speaker 1: and like, I mean, I don't have like the most

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Speaker 1: pleasant memories. Also my house, childhood house growing up, was

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Speaker 1: a pretty turbulent house. My parents were. They were like

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Speaker 1: a young couple. They had me quite young. I remember

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Speaker 1: fights and slamming doors and a lot of yelling and tears.

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Speaker 1: That's how I mean. I hate to say it sounds

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Speaker 1: like a downer and I love both of my parents,

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Speaker 1: but that's how I remember growing up in London. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And did you have brothers and sisters? I had brothers

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Speaker 1: and sisters. My mom and dad had three of us,

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Speaker 1: me and two sisters who were twins. And then when

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Speaker 1: we moved to New York, my mom remarried and had

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Speaker 1: two more kids. My dad remarried and had three more

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Speaker 1: in England, so I have a big family. And then

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Speaker 1: two stepbrothers, so there's ten of us all together. Did

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Speaker 1: you move to New York four based on your mom's

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Speaker 1: relationship or did you move to New York and then

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Speaker 1: your mom found the relationship. No, we moved based on

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Speaker 1: the relationship. I see. We moved as she had fallen

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Speaker 1: in love with my stepdad. They fell in love with

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Speaker 1: each other, and he was like, come live with me

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Speaker 1: in New York. I mean, that wasn't the easiest thing,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, because I know my dad didn't want us

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Speaker 1: to leave. But you know, somehow we go out to

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Speaker 1: New York. And would you say your relationship with both

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Speaker 1: of them was decent with both my parents or both

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Speaker 1: my dads, but let's say both your dad's first. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: definitely my dad like a lot of like English guys,

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Speaker 1: like growing up in the sixties, like he was like

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Speaker 1: a soul fanatic, like he had forty fives of stacks

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Speaker 1: winder k frog like not just that kind of obvious

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Speaker 1: things and sorry, And I remember he loved like he

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Speaker 1: loved horns and like soul music. And I even remember

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Speaker 1: when I was like really young, he like gave me

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Speaker 1: the CDs like I bought this. It was Day Last Soul,

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Speaker 1: the first album three Ft High and Rising. He was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't get it, Like you know, he bought it

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Speaker 1: because somebody who knew that he liked soul or groove

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Speaker 1: music said you should check this out. I remember he

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Speaker 1: had grand Master Flash in the Furious five the Message

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Speaker 1: and he played that all the time, Like so I

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Speaker 1: got this. I think I got this great love of

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Speaker 1: very rhythmic based music from him. And then my stepdad

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Speaker 1: would let me, you know, around with his equipment. He

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Speaker 1: had a ky little eight track recorders and I mean

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Speaker 1: he even had like a synclavier, which is I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you remember this crazy two hundred thousand dollars like programmable

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Speaker 1: sequencer that yeah. I mean he must have been laughing

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Speaker 1: when he was just like, yeah, go teach yourself how

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Speaker 1: to use that. But I could, like very wrote, teach

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Speaker 1: myself how to remake like turns trend Derby's wishing well

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Speaker 1: on it. So anyway, the fact that I got this

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Speaker 1: love of this music from my dad and then my

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Speaker 1: stepdad sort of fostered my basically like wanting to be

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Speaker 1: around equipment, wanting to play around with it, do that stuff.

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Speaker 1: So they were both really important in that. Did you

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Speaker 1: ever go on tour with your dad? I did when

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Speaker 1: I was six or seven. I mean I guess Foreigner.

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Speaker 1: That was foreign of four, you know, like Jukebox Hero

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Speaker 1: on Urgin and Waiting for a Girl like you. They

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Speaker 1: were playing these massive places and he took my mom

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Speaker 1: and me and my two sisters on tour and it

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Speaker 1: was amazing. I mean it was my first time going

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Speaker 1: around America, going to like Texas and going to six

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Speaker 1: Flags and just like this shiit like for a kid,

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Speaker 1: And the drum riser was probably like twelve feet tall,

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Speaker 1: like you know, these big kind of rock shows, and

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Speaker 1: they would let me go backstage behind everybody and like

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Speaker 1: crouch behind the drum riser and I would just play.

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Speaker 1: I knew the set so well, I would mind what

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Speaker 1: the drummer Dennis Elliott was doing. I definitely like that's

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Speaker 1: just certainly an ongoing theme for me. Was there every

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Speaker 1: time that you imagine being a musician like being a

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Speaker 1: performer musician. I mean I played in school bands, you know,

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Speaker 1: and in my high school band, and so it's like

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Speaker 1: this New York era of that we were like in

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Speaker 1: the band sort of mixed racially. There were two black musicians.

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Speaker 1: There was me and two of my friends, and it

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Speaker 1: was like the era of the black rock Coalition of

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Speaker 1: like twenty four seven, Spies Living Color, Like we loved

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Speaker 1: all those bands. And then I was super into the

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Speaker 1: Black Crows. Who knows have played like two Black Crows

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Speaker 1: covers in our set to I didn't even know. Hard

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Speaker 1: to Handle was by Otis Redding. And then there was

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Speaker 1: like this hip hops. I was discovering hip hop, so

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Speaker 1: we'd sort of had rappers come on stage. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: this is my band that I played with. We had

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Speaker 1: opened for the spin Doctors and stuff at Wetlands and

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Speaker 1: play The Bitter End. But I was the worst musician

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Speaker 1: in the band, like they get to other musicians could

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Speaker 1: shred and I like had feel, but I was just

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Speaker 1: like I wasn't going to be slash. I wasn't gonna

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Speaker 1: be Vernon Reid. But I got into DJing and I

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Speaker 1: always was a fan of like liner notes, and i'd

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Speaker 1: weirdly like read Billboard when I was six. So there's

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Speaker 1: things started to happen that I started to amass a

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Speaker 1: bit of a tool kit that was like, okay, well

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Speaker 1: I'm not good enough at this one thing. I'm not

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Speaker 1: really good enough at that thing. But if I amass

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Speaker 1: this sort of like AmAm of things that I love

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Speaker 1: and I'm interested in, and that's what led me to

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Speaker 1: being a producer. Oh why did you play in the band?

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Speaker 1: I played rhythm guitar, but like the other guy had

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Speaker 1: like the like Cramer, like the Kip Winger like guitar.

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Speaker 1: I was like shredding and like then it'd be like

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Speaker 1: my time is still in the set and like pre

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Speaker 1: like just playing like an average white band riff or something.

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Speaker 1: But I did love it. I mean I actually remember

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Speaker 1: my best friend from high school talking to him like

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Speaker 1: in the you know, sixteen, plotting your dreams, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I think I'm going to be like

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Speaker 1: a guitarist in a in a band and all these things.

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Speaker 1: And Alex Kane he's still one of my best friends.

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Speaker 1: He goes, I just see you as more of like

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Speaker 1: a behind the scenes type of guy, and at that

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Speaker 1: moment I was like, you know, I probably like hung

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Speaker 1: up with him. I was like, fuck you dude, like

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Speaker 1: you don't know where I'm going, and he was like

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Speaker 1: completely right. Actually, how old were you with the first

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Speaker 1: time he started going to clubs ader when I was

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Speaker 1: thirteen or fourteen. I loved, like, I just loved all

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Speaker 1: these like English but I had the good things as

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Speaker 1: well about going back to England once or twice you

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Speaker 1: to visit my dad. I would discover things like Blur

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Speaker 1: and the Wonder Stuff and just EMF and just you know,

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Speaker 1: things that were just like really cool. That was you know,

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Speaker 1: back when it would take six months for a band

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Speaker 1: like that to get to Americas. You know, now everything's

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Speaker 1: so global and instantaneous. So I would get really excited

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Speaker 1: when these bands would come over to play in New

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Speaker 1: York at venues like the Marquis or the Ritz. But

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Speaker 1: of course I was twelve thirteen years old. My mother

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Speaker 1: wouldn't let me go to these shows. So I managed

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Speaker 1: to get a job writing for this inter school music

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Speaker 1: paper because I could tell her that I was going

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Speaker 1: to review the shows and she would let me. She

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Speaker 1: would let me go. And I interned at Rolling Stone

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Speaker 1: Magazine in the summers when I was like twelve, thirteen

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Speaker 1: and fourteen maybe, so I'd occasionally get like a freebee

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Speaker 1: tickets and go to shows. And I loved, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I loved going to shows. It was like, I remember

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Speaker 1: the Marquis so well. I remember like different venues. What

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Speaker 1: was the Rolling Stone office like when you were a kid?

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Speaker 1: What did that feel like to go there? That was incredible?

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Speaker 1: I mean I just felt like, I mean, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it was even more relaxed. It wasn't like it was

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Speaker 1: in the seventies, but more relaxant was now. And I

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Speaker 1: was just this kid. It was like, they just give

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Speaker 1: me any job that could fit in, whether it's sometimes

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Speaker 1: like manning the switchboard because you had to like answer

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Speaker 1: the phone and like send people to different extensions. And

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Speaker 1: I would answer the phone. I'm sure my voice for

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Speaker 1: the first year or two like hadn't even broken yet,

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Speaker 1: so I'd be like hello, and then I would run around,

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Speaker 1: and it was back in the day when they compiled

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Speaker 1: their own album chart by calling thirty mom and pop

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Speaker 1: stores and doing a media and average and then deciding

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Speaker 1: what the number one record was. So it would be

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Speaker 1: my job to call. And there were people there like

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Speaker 1: David Frick, like Legends, Sheila Rogers, Anthony to Curtis, David Wild,

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Speaker 1: these really cool people that were just like thought it

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Speaker 1: was like kind of funny though it was just like

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Speaker 1: this kid running around and they could tell how into

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Speaker 1: it I was. I realized how lucky I was, and

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Speaker 1: how lucky I was how they treated me, like, yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: What would you say was the first music that you

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Speaker 1: felt like with your music as opposed to your parents

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Speaker 1: parents music? My parents were like quite. I can't remember

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Speaker 1: if like my stepdad, even though it wasn't his music,

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Speaker 1: like he was interested in like the stuff that I

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Speaker 1: was into. But I definitely would say that early nineties

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Speaker 1: hip hop in New York, things like Black Moon, Pete

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Speaker 1: Rock and See like when I was fifteen sixteen, when

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Speaker 1: I discovered those things, that was really like my own

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Speaker 1: because even the heavier rock stuff wasn't that much of

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Speaker 1: a far cry from my stepdad and foreign and the music.

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Speaker 1: You know, he was shredding. So I would say that

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Speaker 1: the New York hip hop seeing the stuff that I

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Speaker 1: would hear on like Stretcher Armstrong. Yeah, would your friends

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Speaker 1: in school have similar tastes? Would you say? I had

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Speaker 1: two best friends in school, Alex Kane, who told me

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Speaker 1: I was never going to be a guitar hero. And

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Speaker 1: then my friend Daniel Sally, and he was. He was

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Speaker 1: like the first one to have Eric b and rock

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Speaker 1: him paid in full. And then there were like three

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Speaker 1: or four black students that I was friends with in

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Speaker 1: school that like if I would kind of put me

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Speaker 1: onto stuff. And then if I heard a song on

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Speaker 1: the radio that I'd taped on a radio show and

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what it was, I would bring it

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Speaker 1: into school the next day and be like, hey, like Conrad,

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Speaker 1: can you listen to this and tell me what song

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Speaker 1: this is? And you'd be like, that's NAS halftime, like

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Speaker 1: you've never heard the song before. And then those comrade

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Speaker 1: Michael and Jerry, who were the you know, three black

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Speaker 1: students in my class. They were in a musical talent

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Speaker 1: show and they knew that I had this equipment at home,

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Speaker 1: These samplers that were like, I barely knew how to

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Speaker 1: use and they were like, do you want to try

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Speaker 1: and make us like a track for this talent show?

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Speaker 1: It was like a judge by Reverend Al Sharpton. It

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Speaker 1: was in Stuyvesant. It's like cool, And my understanding of

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Speaker 1: how the samplers worked was so wrote that I had

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Speaker 1: to make sure that the samples were the exact same

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Speaker 1: tempo and hit play at the exact same time. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know how to sink anything up. It was just

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Speaker 1: like that. And then Michael Leo was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like what you're doing is very similar to DJ,

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Speaker 1: like you know anything about DJ? And I was like, no,

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Speaker 1: what's that? And he's like, well, you're taking records and

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Speaker 1: you're mixing, you're blending tempos at the same thing. And

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Speaker 1: I think that was one of the first things I

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Speaker 1: ever put the seed in my head of like DJ,

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Speaker 1: Like what's what is that? And how old we at

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Speaker 1: that point in time? Sixteen and what was the first

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Speaker 1: time that you went to a club to check out DJs,

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Speaker 1: like where you were aware that there was a DJ

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Speaker 1: controlling the music in the room. I remember it really well.

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Speaker 1: My friends would all go to these raves that were

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Speaker 1: put on by NASA because it was all ages and

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Speaker 1: your acid, shrooms, ecstasy. You know, you'd be tripping and

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Speaker 1: everyone go dance to techno and then there was you'd

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Speaker 1: go and you'd like hook up in the chill out room.

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Speaker 1: I keep hearing Ricky Palla my head saying, I kids

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Speaker 1: say heckno to techno. He's like, you know his rapid

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Speaker 1: he used to do before the VSTs went on, which

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Speaker 1: is that's so funny. Yeah, But I just couldn't get

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00:16:06,156 --> 00:16:09,676
Speaker 1: with the techno. I wasn't like snobby or something. It

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00:16:09,716 --> 00:16:11,876
Speaker 1: was just because it was fast and it was like

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00:16:12,076 --> 00:16:14,236
Speaker 1: it was straight. And I would always end up in

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Speaker 1: the chill out room where they'd be like an interesting

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00:16:16,556 --> 00:16:20,716
Speaker 1: DJ like Dmitri from Delight or somebody like that. And

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Speaker 1: there was this DJ named Annie that was now I

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Speaker 1: know him and his real name is Annie A and

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00:16:26,716 --> 00:16:29,876
Speaker 1: I but it was one like O n Dashy and

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Speaker 1: he was killing it. It was like cutting doubles of something.

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Speaker 1: And I went and I was just so transfixed, and

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Speaker 1: probably because I was, you know, on some psychedelic drugs

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00:16:40,996 --> 00:16:44,196
Speaker 1: as well, and I was so captivated, and I really

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Speaker 1: think that that was just like one of those moments

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Speaker 1: where it's just like, oh, I want to do that now,

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Speaker 1: because like not only did I love the music that

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Speaker 1: he was playing, but obviously like watching you know, the

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Speaker 1: hands and it was just so it was so interesting.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so that was kind of it. When you

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Speaker 1: went to the NASA parties as kid. What with the venues.

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Speaker 1: It was the shelter. It was that giant place down

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Speaker 1: on varick On. I think it was like one seventy

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00:17:10,716 --> 00:17:13,596
Speaker 1: bar next really close to Wetlands, so it was this

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00:17:13,756 --> 00:17:17,836
Speaker 1: really big giant warehouse and you would sort of like

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00:17:18,276 --> 00:17:21,836
Speaker 1: wait online and it was crazy that the accessories that

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00:17:21,916 --> 00:17:24,396
Speaker 1: people were where. It was like you would take a

330
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Speaker 1: dog toy of like Burt and Ernie the sesame street

331
00:17:28,916 --> 00:17:31,916
Speaker 1: guys and put it on a on a necklace around

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Speaker 1: like a shoe string around and then have like ski

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Speaker 1: goggles and then you would have to like take your

334
00:17:37,796 --> 00:17:40,716
Speaker 1: pumas like the Puma clides or like these classic shoes

335
00:17:40,716 --> 00:17:43,636
Speaker 1: to like the guy that would put platform like rubber platforms.

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00:17:43,676 --> 00:17:46,796
Speaker 1: It was like, but yeah, everybody looked like this kind

337
00:17:46,836 --> 00:17:49,396
Speaker 1: of like freak. I mean, I guess it wasn't that

338
00:17:49,916 --> 00:17:53,956
Speaker 1: far from when you watch that HBO show that scares

339
00:17:53,956 --> 00:17:55,596
Speaker 1: me so much because the kids are just getting so

340
00:17:55,636 --> 00:17:57,716
Speaker 1: fucked up, and like, I'm like, a kids really like that.

341
00:17:57,756 --> 00:18:00,316
Speaker 1: But I'm like, oh shit, we were like that. It's

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00:18:00,356 --> 00:18:03,196
Speaker 1: funny as you're describing it. I never made the connection before,

343
00:18:03,196 --> 00:18:05,476
Speaker 1: but it sounds like we could be talking about glam

344
00:18:05,516 --> 00:18:08,876
Speaker 1: and glitter rock, you know, like because it's definitely related

345
00:18:08,916 --> 00:18:12,236
Speaker 1: like that, the while the look isn't the same. Yeah,

346
00:18:12,356 --> 00:18:16,796
Speaker 1: platforms and yeah, yeah, and just looking like you wanted

347
00:18:16,876 --> 00:18:19,436
Speaker 1: to know, like you were really like marking who your

348
00:18:19,516 --> 00:18:22,076
Speaker 1: tribe was. Yeah, and it looked more almost like what

349
00:18:22,076 --> 00:18:24,276
Speaker 1: you'd wear on stage as opposed to what you'd wear

350
00:18:24,396 --> 00:18:27,596
Speaker 1: being an audience member. Yeah, it was. It was definitely

351
00:18:27,636 --> 00:18:30,356
Speaker 1: like you were wearing stuff to draw attention to yourself.

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00:18:30,396 --> 00:18:33,156
Speaker 1: For Shure, it was like peacocking. Oh what was your

353
00:18:33,156 --> 00:18:37,316
Speaker 1: first DJ gig? It was at a bar on the

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Speaker 1: Upper east Side. I had my turntables for probably three weeks,

355
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Speaker 1: and there was a guy that I knew that through

356
00:18:43,436 --> 00:18:46,276
Speaker 1: parties where they let under h kids and on bars

357
00:18:46,316 --> 00:18:48,196
Speaker 1: on the Upper east Side. There were places like that

358
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Speaker 1: and the Upper west Side, and I just remember hassling

359
00:18:51,196 --> 00:18:54,236
Speaker 1: him and calling him and I probably lied instead of

360
00:18:54,356 --> 00:18:57,156
Speaker 1: in d DJing for three months as opposed to three weeks.

361
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Speaker 1: And I had one crate of records, like about half

362
00:19:00,196 --> 00:19:02,156
Speaker 1: a crate of hip hop and half a crate of

363
00:19:02,196 --> 00:19:05,876
Speaker 1: like funk and soul. Had no idea what I was doing, really,

364
00:19:06,516 --> 00:19:09,516
Speaker 1: and I hustled him like into giving me this gig,

365
00:19:09,716 --> 00:19:12,236
Speaker 1: and I had to take my turntables, you know, in

366
00:19:12,236 --> 00:19:15,036
Speaker 1: the back of a cab. It sounds like I'm exaggerating,

367
00:19:15,036 --> 00:19:17,036
Speaker 1: but it was a snowstorm in New York. I'm sure,

368
00:19:17,476 --> 00:19:19,276
Speaker 1: Like I'm sure the money I paid on the cab

369
00:19:19,836 --> 00:19:22,716
Speaker 1: was more than I got and there were like nineteen

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Speaker 1: people that showed up. But I do remember playing average

371
00:19:26,036 --> 00:19:28,636
Speaker 1: white band love Your Life, which is the sample for

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00:19:28,716 --> 00:19:30,676
Speaker 1: check the rhyme by Tribe called Quest, which was like

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Speaker 1: a big song at that time. And I remember like

374
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Speaker 1: this guy coming up to me and being like, oh,

375
00:19:35,276 --> 00:19:37,236
Speaker 1: that's cool, Like how do you know about this music?

376
00:19:37,316 --> 00:19:41,676
Speaker 1: And I just remember, even when nobody was dancing this

377
00:19:41,876 --> 00:19:45,796
Speaker 1: clear floor, just this feeling of like it wasn't so

378
00:19:45,876 --> 00:19:49,716
Speaker 1: much the control, like from this Bengali thing of being

379
00:19:49,716 --> 00:19:51,956
Speaker 1: like I could control what everyways listened to, but just

380
00:19:51,996 --> 00:19:54,556
Speaker 1: this idea that what I play could affect the mood

381
00:19:54,596 --> 00:19:56,316
Speaker 1: of the room, or if I'd played things in the

382
00:19:56,396 --> 00:19:58,796
Speaker 1: right sequence, or I could you know, and I was

383
00:19:58,836 --> 00:20:01,236
Speaker 1: really bad at that point. I could barely probably put

384
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Speaker 1: two records together like and keep the tempo going. But

385
00:20:04,356 --> 00:20:06,636
Speaker 1: I just I knew that that was what I wanted

386
00:20:06,676 --> 00:20:08,916
Speaker 1: to do. We'll be right back with more from Mark.

387
00:20:09,116 --> 00:20:16,596
Speaker 1: After a quick break, we're back with more of Rick

388
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Speaker 1: Rubin's conversation with Mark Ronson. Do you think of yourself

389
00:20:20,436 --> 00:20:24,276
Speaker 1: primarily as a DJ or a producer or is it both.

390
00:20:24,876 --> 00:20:28,156
Speaker 1: I think I always wanted to make music, and then

391
00:20:28,196 --> 00:20:30,356
Speaker 1: the djaying thing took off in a way I couldn't

392
00:20:30,396 --> 00:20:34,396
Speaker 1: have really foreseen or imagine. The weird thing is that

393
00:20:34,436 --> 00:20:37,676
Speaker 1: they're very separate, but they inform each other so so much,

394
00:20:37,676 --> 00:20:39,636
Speaker 1: and sometimes not in a great way. Like back in

395
00:20:39,676 --> 00:20:42,036
Speaker 1: the days when I was supporting myself by playing five

396
00:20:42,156 --> 00:20:45,036
Speaker 1: six nights a week before I really made it as

397
00:20:45,036 --> 00:20:47,836
Speaker 1: a producer, and you're playing like other people's records and

398
00:20:47,956 --> 00:20:51,276
Speaker 1: Neptunes records in Timberland, and like coming into the studio

399
00:20:51,316 --> 00:20:53,676
Speaker 1: and trying to like find your own voice. The next

400
00:20:53,756 --> 00:20:56,756
Speaker 1: day when you're just clouded with like you know, seeing

401
00:20:56,796 --> 00:21:00,876
Speaker 1: everybody lose their minds to like, you know, a Neptunes track,

402
00:21:00,956 --> 00:21:02,876
Speaker 1: you're it's hard to find your own voice or it's

403
00:21:02,916 --> 00:21:04,996
Speaker 1: hard to really just like cut those ties of all

404
00:21:04,996 --> 00:21:09,796
Speaker 1: those influences, but they they really inform each other. I mean,

405
00:21:10,476 --> 00:21:13,356
Speaker 1: I would definitely probably now at this point call myself

406
00:21:13,396 --> 00:21:16,596
Speaker 1: a producer, but the DJ, I still DJ, and it's

407
00:21:16,636 --> 00:21:19,796
Speaker 1: still what kind of got me here in some ways.

408
00:21:19,836 --> 00:21:23,076
Speaker 1: You know, my first production gig I ever got was

409
00:21:23,076 --> 00:21:25,756
Speaker 1: this girl Nika Kosta, and it was because her manager,

410
00:21:25,796 --> 00:21:29,356
Speaker 1: Dominic Trenier, used to come hear me DJ and I

411
00:21:29,356 --> 00:21:32,476
Speaker 1: would play Rufus and Chaka Khan EPMD and then an

412
00:21:32,476 --> 00:21:35,636
Speaker 1: ac DC breakbeat and this thing. And I mean, I

413
00:21:35,636 --> 00:21:37,316
Speaker 1: remember when I was TJ in this club life. I

414
00:21:37,356 --> 00:21:39,436
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember, but the DJ booth was

415
00:21:39,516 --> 00:21:43,916
Speaker 1: right up against the stairs, cramped, it really wasn't a booth,

416
00:21:43,956 --> 00:21:46,316
Speaker 1: and you could see everybody coming down and it was

417
00:21:46,356 --> 00:21:49,116
Speaker 1: such an amazing So you know, I would see you

418
00:21:49,156 --> 00:21:52,796
Speaker 1: walk down with like Chris Rock and then Damon Dash

419
00:21:52,836 --> 00:21:55,076
Speaker 1: and Jay Z and there was Puffy at one table

420
00:21:55,116 --> 00:21:56,716
Speaker 1: and Jay and the other and they were doing like

421
00:21:56,796 --> 00:22:00,116
Speaker 1: I would go bad Boy Rockefeller, bad Boy Rockefeller tuned

422
00:22:00,156 --> 00:22:02,596
Speaker 1: song for song and they'd be like cheering and laughing

423
00:22:02,636 --> 00:22:05,116
Speaker 1: and like talking shit to each other, like it was

424
00:22:05,196 --> 00:22:09,596
Speaker 1: so wild to be there. But because I would play

425
00:22:09,716 --> 00:22:11,796
Speaker 1: these things that were like, you know, some of my

426
00:22:11,996 --> 00:22:15,236
Speaker 1: heroes and very influential people were at they would Dominic

427
00:22:15,276 --> 00:22:17,036
Speaker 1: Trinier came up and I was like, I have signed

428
00:22:17,036 --> 00:22:19,676
Speaker 1: this girl, Nica Costa. I don't know what her music

429
00:22:19,676 --> 00:22:22,196
Speaker 1: should sound like, but it's supposed to feel like one

430
00:22:22,196 --> 00:22:25,796
Speaker 1: of these DJ sets that you do, so you know,

431
00:22:26,036 --> 00:22:28,716
Speaker 1: so much of it is just hard to kind of

432
00:22:28,796 --> 00:22:33,916
Speaker 1: extrapolate from me in djaying, How much would you react

433
00:22:34,636 --> 00:22:38,556
Speaker 1: to the room, Like to tell me about the mindset

434
00:22:38,636 --> 00:22:42,236
Speaker 1: of djaying? How does the nights start and how do

435
00:22:42,276 --> 00:22:45,636
Speaker 1: you choose what's going to happen? Well, I mean back

436
00:22:45,676 --> 00:22:48,956
Speaker 1: in those days when I started, and I'm kind of

437
00:22:48,996 --> 00:22:52,236
Speaker 1: grateful for this, Like you would play a six hour

438
00:22:52,316 --> 00:22:54,676
Speaker 1: set sometimes, like you were booked from ten to four

439
00:22:54,676 --> 00:22:57,036
Speaker 1: in the morning New York clubs, so you had to

440
00:22:57,076 --> 00:23:00,636
Speaker 1: have this. You had to have like two hours of

441
00:23:00,716 --> 00:23:03,116
Speaker 1: like classics and soul and disco that you would start

442
00:23:03,196 --> 00:23:05,196
Speaker 1: the night where then you'd have your old school hip hop,

443
00:23:05,236 --> 00:23:07,956
Speaker 1: which was like at that time, old school meant you know,

444
00:23:07,996 --> 00:23:11,436
Speaker 1: an I think pre like ninety two classics, slick Rick, EPMD,

445
00:23:11,556 --> 00:23:13,716
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Then you would play your newest bangers

446
00:23:13,716 --> 00:23:15,196
Speaker 1: of the night. Then you had to have like a

447
00:23:15,236 --> 00:23:17,876
Speaker 1: solid reggae set and R and B and then take

448
00:23:17,916 --> 00:23:19,836
Speaker 1: it out maybe with a little house music or some

449
00:23:19,916 --> 00:23:24,476
Speaker 1: dance classics. So you would go into this room, this

450
00:23:24,756 --> 00:23:27,556
Speaker 1: empty room, and you would just watch it slowly fill up.

451
00:23:27,556 --> 00:23:29,716
Speaker 1: And I always loved the first hour because I could

452
00:23:29,716 --> 00:23:32,116
Speaker 1: play records I really loved, and it didn't really matter,

453
00:23:32,156 --> 00:23:35,196
Speaker 1: and that could be like outstanding by the Gap band

454
00:23:35,276 --> 00:23:39,796
Speaker 1: or something a little more obscure, and just slowly build

455
00:23:39,836 --> 00:23:42,156
Speaker 1: the night, and you would just focus on one group

456
00:23:42,196 --> 00:23:46,436
Speaker 1: of people. Because before camera phones and the smoking band

457
00:23:46,516 --> 00:23:49,476
Speaker 1: and all these things and vip boots, everyone stayed on

458
00:23:49,476 --> 00:23:52,236
Speaker 1: the floor. That's where you stayed. You couldn't find out

459
00:23:52,356 --> 00:23:54,516
Speaker 1: someone texts you to tell you there's a better party

460
00:23:54,556 --> 00:23:56,956
Speaker 1: across town, or you wouldn't see it on social media.

461
00:23:57,036 --> 00:23:58,796
Speaker 1: Like if it was a good night, people came to

462
00:23:58,836 --> 00:24:01,316
Speaker 1: the club and stayed all night, So you would focus

463
00:24:01,356 --> 00:24:04,316
Speaker 1: on like one group of maybe girls dancing, and like

464
00:24:04,476 --> 00:24:07,316
Speaker 1: you would that was your barometer. Like if one of

465
00:24:07,356 --> 00:24:09,516
Speaker 1: the crew dropped off to go to the are something

466
00:24:09,556 --> 00:24:11,316
Speaker 1: you're like, oh shit, I'm not killing it enough, like

467
00:24:11,436 --> 00:24:15,036
Speaker 1: gonna and reacting to the crowd. And then if you

468
00:24:15,116 --> 00:24:19,196
Speaker 1: played something like, you know, a breakbeat or something like that,

469
00:24:19,196 --> 00:24:22,436
Speaker 1: that made all like the b boys suddenly form a

470
00:24:22,516 --> 00:24:24,716
Speaker 1: circle and they'd start breaking or like kind of into

471
00:24:24,756 --> 00:24:26,276
Speaker 1: it for a second. But then you're like, I got

472
00:24:26,356 --> 00:24:28,636
Speaker 1: to play something else, though, because now like this turning

473
00:24:28,676 --> 00:24:31,636
Speaker 1: into like wild style and I need like everybody dancing.

474
00:24:31,676 --> 00:24:35,436
Speaker 1: And it's like there were just so many like tells

475
00:24:35,436 --> 00:24:38,316
Speaker 1: and signals and things that you would read, and most

476
00:24:38,316 --> 00:24:41,156
Speaker 1: of the time you're also feeding off the crowd. And

477
00:24:41,196 --> 00:24:44,076
Speaker 1: I remember that I love to play things that were

478
00:24:44,076 --> 00:24:47,396
Speaker 1: a little bit unexpected. So obviously something like back in

479
00:24:47,476 --> 00:24:50,796
Speaker 1: Black by ACDC feels like a breakbeat, like it feels

480
00:24:50,796 --> 00:24:53,236
Speaker 1: as hip hop as anything at this point, but they

481
00:24:53,276 --> 00:24:55,716
Speaker 1: weren't really playing that in the clubs. And I remember

482
00:24:55,756 --> 00:24:59,756
Speaker 1: when the Benjamin's came out by Puffy and Biggie and

483
00:24:59,756 --> 00:25:02,076
Speaker 1: then there was a rock remix, So I was like,

484
00:25:02,076 --> 00:25:04,156
Speaker 1: if I played the Benjamins and go straight to the

485
00:25:04,236 --> 00:25:06,796
Speaker 1: rock remix on the downbeat of Biggie's verse, no one's

486
00:25:06,836 --> 00:25:08,996
Speaker 1: gonna stop dancing. It's Biggie and then right on the

487
00:25:09,156 --> 00:25:10,956
Speaker 1: down beat when big Self dis first, I can drop

488
00:25:10,996 --> 00:25:14,436
Speaker 1: ac DC back in black and everyone's dancing, like doesn't

489
00:25:14,436 --> 00:25:17,036
Speaker 1: realize they're still dancing. It's something that's unfamiliar. Like I

490
00:25:17,076 --> 00:25:20,996
Speaker 1: loved being able to do that. And then when Seven

491
00:25:21,076 --> 00:25:23,436
Speaker 1: Nation Army came out and a couple of songs that

492
00:25:24,316 --> 00:25:27,316
Speaker 1: were not hip hop but like just felt very hip hop.

493
00:25:27,356 --> 00:25:29,356
Speaker 1: I could get away with playing these that got very

494
00:25:29,396 --> 00:25:31,756
Speaker 1: exciting and I was like, okay, and there was you know,

495
00:25:31,836 --> 00:25:34,956
Speaker 1: DJ AM on the West Coast. It was incredible. The

496
00:25:35,036 --> 00:25:38,716
Speaker 1: best of everybody me stretched like trying to push the

497
00:25:38,716 --> 00:25:41,356
Speaker 1: limits of what you could get away within the hip

498
00:25:41,396 --> 00:25:46,556
Speaker 1: hop club essentially. How different are the club scenes around

499
00:25:46,596 --> 00:25:49,636
Speaker 1: the world. In the beginning, the only place I really

500
00:25:49,676 --> 00:25:53,596
Speaker 1: went was Japan, Tokyo, because Tokyo had such a like

501
00:25:53,596 --> 00:25:57,836
Speaker 1: a symbiotic relationship back and forth with New York with music,

502
00:25:57,956 --> 00:26:01,676
Speaker 1: street culture groups, everything, So that was kind of amazing.

503
00:26:01,676 --> 00:26:04,316
Speaker 1: And that was the first time going over there and

504
00:26:04,916 --> 00:26:08,396
Speaker 1: people being really excited about you because you're from somewhere else.

505
00:26:08,436 --> 00:26:11,436
Speaker 1: And then the Japanese crowds are it's such a you know,

506
00:26:11,516 --> 00:26:13,676
Speaker 1: they're really grateful that you've come there as well, so

507
00:26:13,836 --> 00:26:16,356
Speaker 1: you know New York, I would I was doing good

508
00:26:16,356 --> 00:26:18,316
Speaker 1: and killing it, but like, nobody's going to make a

509
00:26:18,356 --> 00:26:20,436
Speaker 1: fuss over you in New York, especially if they're seeing

510
00:26:20,436 --> 00:26:23,996
Speaker 1: you three times a week. So Japan was really great.

511
00:26:23,996 --> 00:26:26,916
Speaker 1: And I remember when my first album came out, I

512
00:26:26,956 --> 00:26:28,956
Speaker 1: had this song on there that was like this sort

513
00:26:28,996 --> 00:26:31,116
Speaker 1: of like minor hip hop hit with ghost Face and

514
00:26:31,196 --> 00:26:34,516
Speaker 1: Nate Dog called Ui. And I went over to Japan

515
00:26:35,236 --> 00:26:37,316
Speaker 1: where it was like big So I've been to Japan

516
00:26:37,356 --> 00:26:39,036
Speaker 1: a couple of times, but this is me going over

517
00:26:39,076 --> 00:26:41,396
Speaker 1: there now the first time with like a record that's popping.

518
00:26:42,196 --> 00:26:44,676
Speaker 1: And I never got on the mic before because I

519
00:26:44,676 --> 00:26:47,636
Speaker 1: always thought getting on the mic was like the provenance

520
00:26:47,716 --> 00:26:51,476
Speaker 1: of like flex enough, big Cat, these people with these

521
00:26:51,516 --> 00:26:54,596
Speaker 1: great booming voices. I just had this like unspoken thing

522
00:26:54,596 --> 00:26:57,796
Speaker 1: that like white people should not be on the mic,

523
00:26:57,916 --> 00:27:00,156
Speaker 1: like whatever it was, it just and it wasn't a thing.

524
00:27:01,116 --> 00:27:03,996
Speaker 1: And I was djaying and I was doing my regular

525
00:27:04,036 --> 00:27:06,036
Speaker 1: set in what I thought was killing it, and I

526
00:27:06,036 --> 00:27:08,956
Speaker 1: could feel the crowd there was just like unspoken ten

527
00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:13,356
Speaker 1: and then this hushed like they weren't losing their minds

528
00:27:13,396 --> 00:27:15,556
Speaker 1: like other times that I'd gone there and I was like,

529
00:27:15,596 --> 00:27:18,476
Speaker 1: you know what, like I have to establish a connection.

530
00:27:18,556 --> 00:27:20,956
Speaker 1: Like as much as I hate it, there's this wireless

531
00:27:20,996 --> 00:27:22,916
Speaker 1: mic right here to my left, and I'm gonna have

532
00:27:22,956 --> 00:27:26,156
Speaker 1: to pick it up and say something to engage and

533
00:27:26,356 --> 00:27:28,276
Speaker 1: make some kind of bond and acknowledge that there's this

534
00:27:28,356 --> 00:27:30,356
Speaker 1: crowded to see me or it's going to stay in

535
00:27:30,356 --> 00:27:33,316
Speaker 1: this weird zone. And I did, and I was like

536
00:27:33,396 --> 00:27:36,596
Speaker 1: hey too, like so awkwardly, I'm sure, Tokyo, like just

537
00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:40,196
Speaker 1: doing whatever i'd probably learned from like watching real rap

538
00:27:40,276 --> 00:27:44,116
Speaker 1: DJs get on the mic, and from that moment they

539
00:27:44,276 --> 00:27:46,156
Speaker 1: just lost their ship and it was amazing. They were

540
00:27:46,196 --> 00:27:48,276
Speaker 1: just waiting for me to say like thank you and

541
00:27:48,356 --> 00:27:50,916
Speaker 1: be like we're in this place together. And so I

542
00:27:50,956 --> 00:27:53,516
Speaker 1: sort of learned after that like like any other place

543
00:27:53,556 --> 00:27:56,996
Speaker 1: that I went, I didn't need to do that. And

544
00:27:56,996 --> 00:27:59,796
Speaker 1: that felt very like, very foreign to me. At first.

545
00:28:00,316 --> 00:28:04,836
Speaker 1: London I loved because it was so exciting coming back

546
00:28:04,876 --> 00:28:08,556
Speaker 1: there having grown up in England but like until eight

547
00:28:08,596 --> 00:28:10,756
Speaker 1: but the feeling like a total New Yorker and coming back.

548
00:28:10,836 --> 00:28:13,476
Speaker 1: And I think the first time was Puffy brought me

549
00:28:14,036 --> 00:28:16,116
Speaker 1: and he was like doing a you know, some kind

550
00:28:16,156 --> 00:28:20,676
Speaker 1: of promo tour and getting to kill it in London

551
00:28:21,596 --> 00:28:24,836
Speaker 1: was like really really wonderful, and it felt like and

552
00:28:24,836 --> 00:28:26,836
Speaker 1: then as I started coming back to London more and

553
00:28:26,876 --> 00:28:30,236
Speaker 1: more and rediscovering my roots there and going around record

554
00:28:30,276 --> 00:28:33,756
Speaker 1: stores then and that's what led to me meeting Lily

555
00:28:33,796 --> 00:28:36,196
Speaker 1: Allen and Amy Winehouse and these people like that was

556
00:28:36,236 --> 00:28:39,556
Speaker 1: like another chapter. But at first I was just like whoa,

557
00:28:39,676 --> 00:28:41,956
Speaker 1: this is great, Like I'm back in London and this thing.

558
00:28:41,996 --> 00:28:45,516
Speaker 1: And I was so fucking New York at that point.

559
00:28:45,556 --> 00:28:48,236
Speaker 1: I wasn't really in my head like feeling like I

560
00:28:48,276 --> 00:28:51,676
Speaker 1: was London cool. Tell me about Amy. I never got

561
00:28:51,676 --> 00:28:56,036
Speaker 1: to meet her. She was. I hate to sound corny,

562
00:28:56,116 --> 00:28:58,836
Speaker 1: but she really changed my life. Like I was, I

563
00:28:58,956 --> 00:29:02,836
Speaker 1: was not popping in industry parlance. And she came to

564
00:29:02,956 --> 00:29:08,276
Speaker 1: my studio in New York and this is actually quite funny.

565
00:29:08,276 --> 00:29:11,396
Speaker 1: This is literally what happened. And I came guy meet

566
00:29:11,476 --> 00:29:13,396
Speaker 1: my friend who was at EMI Publishing was like, do

567
00:29:13,396 --> 00:29:15,076
Speaker 1: you know Amy Winehouse? And I was like yeah, I

568
00:29:15,076 --> 00:29:16,916
Speaker 1: like that. For her first record, she had this song

569
00:29:16,956 --> 00:29:19,676
Speaker 1: in My Bed produced by salam Remy that he reused

570
00:29:19,716 --> 00:29:21,756
Speaker 1: and made you look beat, and I was like, yeah,

571
00:29:21,836 --> 00:29:24,636
Speaker 1: she seems cool, like He's like, she's in New York

572
00:29:24,716 --> 00:29:26,596
Speaker 1: for a day meeting with a couple of people, Like,

573
00:29:26,636 --> 00:29:28,996
Speaker 1: do you want to meet with her? And I was

574
00:29:29,036 --> 00:29:31,636
Speaker 1: like sure. So she comes to my studio and you know,

575
00:29:31,716 --> 00:29:35,036
Speaker 1: downtown Mercer Street, and I met her at the door

576
00:29:36,316 --> 00:29:38,156
Speaker 1: and she was like, yeah, I'm going up to see

577
00:29:38,196 --> 00:29:41,756
Speaker 1: Mark Ronson and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm

578
00:29:41,796 --> 00:29:45,356
Speaker 1: Mark and she's like cool, yeah, So he take me

579
00:29:45,436 --> 00:29:47,196
Speaker 1: up to see him and I was like no, no, no,

580
00:29:47,436 --> 00:29:51,036
Speaker 1: I'm Mark Ronson and she was like, oh, I thought

581
00:29:51,036 --> 00:29:53,076
Speaker 1: you had a long bed or something. I think in

582
00:29:53,116 --> 00:29:56,716
Speaker 1: her mind maybe the fact that like she had heard

583
00:29:56,796 --> 00:30:00,076
Speaker 1: my name for longer, because maybe in England, like she

584
00:30:00,196 --> 00:30:02,996
Speaker 1: just assumed I was like somebody who'd been around for

585
00:30:02,996 --> 00:30:05,116
Speaker 1: a while. But in my head I was always like,

586
00:30:05,236 --> 00:30:07,676
Speaker 1: did she think I'm Rick Rubin? Like I have no idea.

587
00:30:07,956 --> 00:30:11,556
Speaker 1: So we went up in the elevator and you know,

588
00:30:11,596 --> 00:30:13,476
Speaker 1: I'm sure I don't know how you do it, but

589
00:30:13,636 --> 00:30:15,676
Speaker 1: everybody has their own toolbox. And I was just like,

590
00:30:15,716 --> 00:30:17,356
Speaker 1: what kind of record do you want to make? Like

591
00:30:17,436 --> 00:30:19,076
Speaker 1: what do you what do you like? What are you

592
00:30:19,116 --> 00:30:22,156
Speaker 1: listening to? And she played me a lot of girl

593
00:30:22,196 --> 00:30:25,196
Speaker 1: groups stuff in the sixties, things like the Shan Garlas

594
00:30:25,236 --> 00:30:27,556
Speaker 1: and like jukebox pop music and thinks I didn't really

595
00:30:27,596 --> 00:30:30,556
Speaker 1: know that well except for like probably like movies like

596
00:30:30,596 --> 00:30:33,436
Speaker 1: Good Fellas, you know, like like it was so before

597
00:30:33,596 --> 00:30:35,596
Speaker 1: funk and soul and disco and the ship that I played.

598
00:30:35,596 --> 00:30:37,836
Speaker 1: But I loved it. I mean it was cut from

599
00:30:37,836 --> 00:30:41,316
Speaker 1: the same cloth. When I was like cool and she

600
00:30:41,876 --> 00:30:43,916
Speaker 1: left and I was like, I just have a feeling.

601
00:30:43,956 --> 00:30:45,516
Speaker 1: First of all, we really hit it off and I

602
00:30:45,596 --> 00:30:48,316
Speaker 1: loved and there was something very familiar, and I suddenly

603
00:30:48,316 --> 00:30:51,036
Speaker 1: felt very English and Jewish in North London, like she

604
00:30:51,356 --> 00:30:55,196
Speaker 1: reminded me of all those things, and there's a shared humor,

605
00:30:55,316 --> 00:30:57,556
Speaker 1: Like she was definitely much sharper with the width than

606
00:30:57,596 --> 00:31:00,316
Speaker 1: I was, but but there was an instant rapport and

607
00:31:00,356 --> 00:31:02,756
Speaker 1: I just remember her leaving that evening and being like,

608
00:31:02,796 --> 00:31:06,876
Speaker 1: I gotta make something that like makes this girl like

609
00:31:06,996 --> 00:31:08,796
Speaker 1: want to stay in New York for another day, Like

610
00:31:08,876 --> 00:31:10,916
Speaker 1: I just like I want to make music with her.

611
00:31:10,956 --> 00:31:13,436
Speaker 1: And I suddenly felt I wasn't even pressure, I was

612
00:31:13,436 --> 00:31:16,156
Speaker 1: just inspired. So I came up with a little like

613
00:31:16,916 --> 00:31:20,316
Speaker 1: piano and instrumental, like just very bare bones tractor back

614
00:31:20,356 --> 00:31:22,076
Speaker 1: to black, and I played it for the next day

615
00:31:22,116 --> 00:31:24,276
Speaker 1: when she came in and she dug it and then

616
00:31:24,276 --> 00:31:28,436
Speaker 1: she stayed around. But she was in a really together

617
00:31:28,596 --> 00:31:30,756
Speaker 1: part of her life when I met her. When we

618
00:31:30,796 --> 00:31:34,716
Speaker 1: worked together, I remember she hadn't been for a little

619
00:31:34,716 --> 00:31:36,716
Speaker 1: while before that, and I even remember some of my

620
00:31:36,756 --> 00:31:39,476
Speaker 1: English friends being like, oh, you're working on Amy Wine.

621
00:31:39,516 --> 00:31:40,876
Speaker 1: I was like, good luck with that one. Like I

622
00:31:40,916 --> 00:31:44,396
Speaker 1: heard she's been working on that record for three years already,

623
00:31:44,396 --> 00:31:45,916
Speaker 1: and you know, I think there was a long space

624
00:31:46,316 --> 00:31:48,916
Speaker 1: between her two albums, And I was like, I don't

625
00:31:48,916 --> 00:31:50,836
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about, because this girl comes in

626
00:31:50,876 --> 00:31:53,956
Speaker 1: and she's fucking playing me these incredible songs. She's sharp

627
00:31:54,036 --> 00:31:57,556
Speaker 1: as attack, she's hilarious. So that's why even when she

628
00:31:57,676 --> 00:32:00,876
Speaker 1: told me the story about the song, Rehab came about

629
00:32:00,916 --> 00:32:04,996
Speaker 1: because we were walking around Soho one afternoon and she

630
00:32:05,196 --> 00:32:07,436
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, yeah, I wasn't always like this like

631
00:32:07,476 --> 00:32:09,476
Speaker 1: I was. You should have seen me in bass like

632
00:32:09,476 --> 00:32:11,916
Speaker 1: I used to see me a year ago. Like my family,

633
00:32:11,916 --> 00:32:14,276
Speaker 1: they're also worried about me and my manager and like

634
00:32:14,756 --> 00:32:16,636
Speaker 1: my dad came over and they tried to make me

635
00:32:16,676 --> 00:32:18,836
Speaker 1: go to rehab and I was like no, no, no,

636
00:32:19,316 --> 00:32:22,316
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking like, of course, if this was

637
00:32:22,316 --> 00:32:24,396
Speaker 1: somebody who was in durest or. It seemed like not

638
00:32:24,476 --> 00:32:26,516
Speaker 1: in a good way. I wouldn't have said, like that's hilarious,

639
00:32:26,556 --> 00:32:28,396
Speaker 1: let's gonna make a somment because I'm looking at somebody

640
00:32:28,396 --> 00:32:32,276
Speaker 1: who's like so together and this is such a closed

641
00:32:32,396 --> 00:32:34,476
Speaker 1: chapter of their life, like you know what, Like I

642
00:32:34,516 --> 00:32:36,996
Speaker 1: hate to do shit that's like gimmicky, but that is

643
00:32:37,156 --> 00:32:39,676
Speaker 1: like very hooky. Just the way you said that, so

644
00:32:39,756 --> 00:32:42,476
Speaker 1: like she was just she would like go back to

645
00:32:42,556 --> 00:32:45,636
Speaker 1: the Soho Grand Hotel where she was staying every night.

646
00:32:45,676 --> 00:32:47,356
Speaker 1: It was five blocks from my studio and like get

647
00:32:47,396 --> 00:32:49,916
Speaker 1: on the treadmill for like an hour, like and then

648
00:32:50,076 --> 00:32:52,396
Speaker 1: go to bed like we were. It was a lot

649
00:32:52,396 --> 00:32:54,516
Speaker 1: of fun. I mean, we are rarely only in the

650
00:32:54,556 --> 00:32:58,236
Speaker 1: studio six days probably that whole record, So I wish

651
00:32:58,276 --> 00:32:59,956
Speaker 1: it was longer because there would be more memories. But

652
00:32:59,996 --> 00:33:01,396
Speaker 1: then we you know, we were still friends and we

653
00:33:01,476 --> 00:33:05,436
Speaker 1: hung after that. Would you describe that meeting an artist,

654
00:33:05,916 --> 00:33:08,476
Speaker 1: getting the vibe what they're into, they go away, You

655
00:33:08,596 --> 00:33:11,796
Speaker 1: make some thing play for them. Is that would you

656
00:33:11,836 --> 00:33:17,076
Speaker 1: say typical of your process as a producer. Well, the

657
00:33:17,196 --> 00:33:19,756
Speaker 1: way that I like kind of came up was like

658
00:33:19,836 --> 00:33:22,156
Speaker 1: you sort of had like a beat tape, so you'd

659
00:33:22,196 --> 00:33:24,396
Speaker 1: go to Anna offices and you would play beats and

660
00:33:24,436 --> 00:33:27,956
Speaker 1: instrumentals like and that's kind of like what people. That's

661
00:33:28,036 --> 00:33:30,836
Speaker 1: what I the world that I knew. So when when

662
00:33:30,876 --> 00:33:32,596
Speaker 1: I met Amy and she told me what she liked,

663
00:33:32,636 --> 00:33:34,716
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I don't have anything pre made

664
00:33:34,756 --> 00:33:38,676
Speaker 1: that you will like. But I mean it's always different

665
00:33:38,716 --> 00:33:42,076
Speaker 1: because some people come and they just have their songs already.

666
00:33:42,196 --> 00:33:46,116
Speaker 1: Some people have a couple of songs, but then the jams.

667
00:33:46,196 --> 00:33:48,636
Speaker 1: Sometimes I don't write anything, like I just there to

668
00:33:49,556 --> 00:33:52,596
Speaker 1: arrange and feed. You know, our friend Richard Russell and

669
00:33:52,796 --> 00:33:56,116
Speaker 1: your friends with Richard, like he says in his book,

670
00:33:56,516 --> 00:34:00,356
Speaker 1: he's like to him being a good producers, Like it's

671
00:34:00,476 --> 00:34:04,796
Speaker 1: serious of making the right decisions. Like it's so fucking

672
00:34:04,916 --> 00:34:08,356
Speaker 1: mata and so like in the atmosphere of like what

673
00:34:08,716 --> 00:34:11,276
Speaker 1: you can do on any given day that might make

674
00:34:11,356 --> 00:34:14,476
Speaker 1: something good or help steer something to be better, or

675
00:34:14,796 --> 00:34:17,076
Speaker 1: or just know to get out of the way. It's

676
00:34:17,476 --> 00:34:20,716
Speaker 1: it's very it's very different, but it just depends I

677
00:34:20,756 --> 00:34:22,996
Speaker 1: guess it's like depends on the artist. Yeah, that's why

678
00:34:23,036 --> 00:34:25,836
Speaker 1: that's why I'm asking, because I you know, we technically

679
00:34:25,836 --> 00:34:28,076
Speaker 1: do the same job, but I have no idea what

680
00:34:28,116 --> 00:34:30,876
Speaker 1: that means and how you do it you do versus

681
00:34:30,876 --> 00:34:32,156
Speaker 1: what I do it. You know what I say, it's

682
00:34:32,196 --> 00:34:35,876
Speaker 1: impossible to know. It's such a it's such a particular

683
00:34:35,996 --> 00:34:38,476
Speaker 1: thing that yeah, and it's you know, it's such a

684
00:34:38,516 --> 00:34:41,956
Speaker 1: particular like you know, when I came up like you,

685
00:34:42,636 --> 00:34:48,156
Speaker 1: Quincy q Tip, George Martin, Nigel Godrich, like I because

686
00:34:48,156 --> 00:34:49,836
Speaker 1: I loved all these different things. I had like a

687
00:34:50,516 --> 00:34:54,236
Speaker 1: wide array of people that I would like study, and

688
00:34:54,276 --> 00:34:57,556
Speaker 1: I you know, I read things like well Farrell says

689
00:34:57,596 --> 00:34:59,436
Speaker 1: like they don't say in this youdo past nine pm

690
00:34:59,436 --> 00:35:01,276
Speaker 1: because like nothing good ever happened, so like maybe I

691
00:35:01,396 --> 00:35:04,036
Speaker 1: was sort some that And then like you were so

692
00:35:04,036 --> 00:35:06,556
Speaker 1: song focused. I remember whenever I read something about you,

693
00:35:06,556 --> 00:35:08,836
Speaker 1: you'd be like maybe the songs aren't there yet, or

694
00:35:08,916 --> 00:35:11,036
Speaker 1: just like it was so much about the songs. And

695
00:35:11,156 --> 00:35:14,636
Speaker 1: I realize, like I've also got into trouble being into

696
00:35:15,916 --> 00:35:18,876
Speaker 1: getting into projects because I have like, well it doesn't

697
00:35:18,876 --> 00:35:21,236
Speaker 1: matter they have like great songs yet, but like they'll

698
00:35:21,276 --> 00:35:22,916
Speaker 1: com or like we could bring them out and that

699
00:35:23,316 --> 00:35:26,836
Speaker 1: isn't a given either. So I think that it's just

700
00:35:26,836 --> 00:35:30,036
Speaker 1: just like magic toolbox and everybody has their different things.

701
00:35:30,756 --> 00:35:33,156
Speaker 1: Would you say when you start on a project with

702
00:35:33,196 --> 00:35:35,196
Speaker 1: an artist, you'll have an idea of where it's going

703
00:35:35,276 --> 00:35:37,316
Speaker 1: to go or is it pretty much open to see

704
00:35:37,316 --> 00:35:40,116
Speaker 1: what's going to happen in the moment and that's where

705
00:35:40,156 --> 00:35:42,756
Speaker 1: it goes from there. I think that's what it is.

706
00:35:42,916 --> 00:35:45,396
Speaker 1: I think it's just open to that first meeting. I

707
00:35:45,476 --> 00:35:48,036
Speaker 1: mean I think that I have you know, sometimes when

708
00:35:48,036 --> 00:35:51,076
Speaker 1: I'm working with like a band like that I've loved

709
00:35:51,116 --> 00:35:54,916
Speaker 1: and grown up with, whether it's ghost Face or Duran Duran, Like,

710
00:35:54,956 --> 00:35:56,716
Speaker 1: of course you have an idea, a little bit of

711
00:35:56,716 --> 00:35:59,076
Speaker 1: an idea because you're like you're already a fan, so

712
00:35:59,196 --> 00:36:02,636
Speaker 1: you have the sixth sense of like what do fans

713
00:36:02,676 --> 00:36:05,356
Speaker 1: want to hear this person do? And then you just

714
00:36:05,396 --> 00:36:07,956
Speaker 1: go like, what's this person's superpower? And a lot of

715
00:36:07,996 --> 00:36:10,076
Speaker 1: the great artists have more than one superpower, Like how

716
00:36:10,076 --> 00:36:14,076
Speaker 1: do I just like amplify that to you know, next level?

717
00:36:14,076 --> 00:36:15,956
Speaker 1: But I think it's always you know, when we were

718
00:36:15,996 --> 00:36:19,516
Speaker 1: working at your place with Gaga Chiangola, I remember like

719
00:36:19,556 --> 00:36:21,196
Speaker 1: I had no idea what we're going to do, and

720
00:36:21,236 --> 00:36:23,276
Speaker 1: I was like, I think she maybe thought even we're

721
00:36:23,276 --> 00:36:25,596
Speaker 1: gonna do something a little more jazzy because everybody thinks

722
00:36:25,636 --> 00:36:27,796
Speaker 1: because I like love horns, like I know a lot

723
00:36:27,836 --> 00:36:30,956
Speaker 1: about jazz, I know nothing about jazz. And she just

724
00:36:31,036 --> 00:36:34,196
Speaker 1: came in in like denim shorts and cowboy boots and

725
00:36:34,276 --> 00:36:36,636
Speaker 1: like a hack and obviously like your studio is like

726
00:36:36,636 --> 00:36:38,876
Speaker 1: one of the most idyllic places of all times, so

727
00:36:38,956 --> 00:36:42,876
Speaker 1: you do feel really like in this wonderful zone. And

728
00:36:42,916 --> 00:36:45,476
Speaker 1: it just felt like, Okay, well let's make something that's

729
00:36:45,516 --> 00:36:48,076
Speaker 1: sort of like you know, organic or strip back or

730
00:36:48,116 --> 00:36:52,156
Speaker 1: like I you know, whatever the reason. So I think that, yeah,

731
00:36:52,196 --> 00:36:54,596
Speaker 1: I think I'm just always just like open to Like

732
00:36:55,036 --> 00:36:57,836
Speaker 1: what's the Quincy says to is like you always need

733
00:36:57,876 --> 00:37:00,796
Speaker 1: to leave room. You need to leave space to like

734
00:37:00,876 --> 00:37:03,156
Speaker 1: God in the room or whatever you believe that thing is,

735
00:37:03,196 --> 00:37:06,116
Speaker 1: like just have to be ready to go, and like

736
00:37:06,236 --> 00:37:10,916
Speaker 1: any kind of instinct, do you still make tracks without

737
00:37:10,956 --> 00:37:14,196
Speaker 1: having a particular artist in mind? You know, it's funny.

738
00:37:14,276 --> 00:37:16,996
Speaker 1: I just kind of went back to that there's something

739
00:37:17,436 --> 00:37:20,756
Speaker 1: I think over Lockdown I learned Ableton. I was like,

740
00:37:20,756 --> 00:37:23,036
Speaker 1: I'm finally going to teach myself Ableton because like every

741
00:37:23,196 --> 00:37:24,956
Speaker 1: I've been telling myself for eight years, every time I

742
00:37:24,956 --> 00:37:26,476
Speaker 1: get on a flight to Japan. I'm like, this will

743
00:37:26,516 --> 00:37:28,956
Speaker 1: be the time I never never done it. And it's

744
00:37:28,956 --> 00:37:30,756
Speaker 1: getting to the point where like Diplo and people that

745
00:37:30,796 --> 00:37:33,436
Speaker 1: I work with, or like Kevin from TAM and Poula

746
00:37:33,476 --> 00:37:36,276
Speaker 1: and Ableton, they're like they're like, really, you're going to

747
00:37:36,356 --> 00:37:38,316
Speaker 1: make me fucking bounce these stems again? So you can

748
00:37:38,316 --> 00:37:41,396
Speaker 1: put this in pro tools, like can you just learn Ableton?

749
00:37:41,556 --> 00:37:43,876
Speaker 1: So that got me back into a little bit into

750
00:37:43,916 --> 00:37:46,636
Speaker 1: beat mode, and then I realized that what I was

751
00:37:46,756 --> 00:37:49,516
Speaker 1: trying to do on Ableton was just recreate what I

752
00:37:49,596 --> 00:37:51,956
Speaker 1: used to do on my MPC. So I'm like, Ma'm

753
00:37:52,076 --> 00:37:54,276
Speaker 1: fuck this, Like I'm not going to be lazy. Let

754
00:37:54,356 --> 00:37:57,196
Speaker 1: me just break the NBC out and start doing this thing,

755
00:37:57,196 --> 00:38:00,796
Speaker 1: because I was trying to recreate feel and sound and

756
00:38:00,956 --> 00:38:03,516
Speaker 1: it just wasn't doing it. So I got back into

757
00:38:03,596 --> 00:38:07,476
Speaker 1: like NBC like making beats, and just like I've been

758
00:38:07,516 --> 00:38:10,156
Speaker 1: in some sessions recently since shits kind of open back

759
00:38:10,196 --> 00:38:13,836
Speaker 1: up again and I love getting there before the artists

760
00:38:13,876 --> 00:38:17,116
Speaker 1: like four hours and just making like six instrumentals just

761
00:38:17,156 --> 00:38:18,796
Speaker 1: so it's sort of like ready to go and like

762
00:38:18,876 --> 00:38:21,636
Speaker 1: chopping drum breaks just so you know there's not that

763
00:38:22,036 --> 00:38:24,236
Speaker 1: kind of dead moment where they're standing over you, where

764
00:38:24,236 --> 00:38:26,276
Speaker 1: you're like chopping a snare drum. Like. I like the

765
00:38:26,356 --> 00:38:28,956
Speaker 1: idea of just having a few things to get someone

766
00:38:28,996 --> 00:38:32,436
Speaker 1: excited and inspired when they walk in the room. Are

767
00:38:32,436 --> 00:38:37,476
Speaker 1: you ever surprised by how someone approaches vocally a tract

768
00:38:37,556 --> 00:38:39,996
Speaker 1: that you've lived with for a little bit as an

769
00:38:39,996 --> 00:38:44,156
Speaker 1: instrumental Yeah, definitely. I mean, I love that's the best

770
00:38:44,156 --> 00:38:46,036
Speaker 1: thing where you're just so surprised and you're like, oh

771
00:38:46,076 --> 00:38:47,836
Speaker 1: my god. I never would have thought of that. I mean,

772
00:38:47,916 --> 00:38:52,116
Speaker 1: especially the probably more with Maladies and wrap Stuf because

773
00:38:52,116 --> 00:38:56,236
Speaker 1: there's probably more room like experiment. But I also remember,

774
00:38:56,316 --> 00:38:59,436
Speaker 1: like I worked on them like a third record. I

775
00:38:59,436 --> 00:39:01,836
Speaker 1: had this song with Q Tip called Bang Bang Bang,

776
00:39:01,916 --> 00:39:03,996
Speaker 1: and I remember him coming in because I was playing

777
00:39:04,036 --> 00:39:08,076
Speaker 1: him a bunch of other beats and by accident, I

778
00:39:08,116 --> 00:39:10,436
Speaker 1: started this one that was like already a song for

779
00:39:10,476 --> 00:39:12,716
Speaker 1: somebody else. He goes, he wasn't that into the ship

780
00:39:12,756 --> 00:39:14,636
Speaker 1: I was playing. It's like, what's that one? I was like,

781
00:39:14,676 --> 00:39:16,876
Speaker 1: Oh that was this other thing is roll that back

782
00:39:16,916 --> 00:39:20,556
Speaker 1: and watching like Q Tip like in his process, which

783
00:39:20,676 --> 00:39:22,676
Speaker 1: was just like get out the room, I'm going to

784
00:39:22,756 --> 00:39:24,716
Speaker 1: run pro tools I'm going to record this ship, puts

785
00:39:24,756 --> 00:39:31,076
Speaker 1: his headphones on and just records first doing cadences Donna, Donna,

786
00:39:31,156 --> 00:39:33,236
Speaker 1: and then starts to fill in the words and then

787
00:39:33,276 --> 00:39:35,756
Speaker 1: like this whole ship is like coming to life and

788
00:39:36,036 --> 00:39:38,676
Speaker 1: obviously has such a magic voice in this familiar thing

789
00:39:38,756 --> 00:39:42,996
Speaker 1: that's like you know, I grew up with. But occasionally

790
00:39:43,076 --> 00:39:44,916
Speaker 1: someone will just send you something back down and that's

791
00:39:44,956 --> 00:39:46,916
Speaker 1: great too. But when you get to see this little

792
00:39:46,996 --> 00:39:50,076
Speaker 1: people's processes and stuff, it's like, oh shit, that's how

793
00:39:50,076 --> 00:39:52,916
Speaker 1: they do that. Yeah, it's so cool. It is? It

794
00:39:53,036 --> 00:39:55,956
Speaker 1: very different from artist artists? Would you say? I feel

795
00:39:55,956 --> 00:40:01,396
Speaker 1: like it's pretty like if someone likes something, when you

796
00:40:01,476 --> 00:40:03,476
Speaker 1: play something and it gets them in the first like

797
00:40:03,516 --> 00:40:06,116
Speaker 1: five or six seconds, which is really the only time.

798
00:40:06,156 --> 00:40:07,436
Speaker 1: If you don't get them in the first five or

799
00:40:07,436 --> 00:40:09,916
Speaker 1: six seconds, it is probably not gonna happen. It's usually

800
00:40:09,956 --> 00:40:12,036
Speaker 1: like the thing like oh shit, let me get some headphones,

801
00:40:12,076 --> 00:40:13,716
Speaker 1: and then it's like plug. They might run the track

802
00:40:13,756 --> 00:40:17,276
Speaker 1: back and it's like just freestyling, like the first maladies

803
00:40:17,316 --> 00:40:20,676
Speaker 1: and the things that come out, Like that's the most

804
00:40:20,716 --> 00:40:23,916
Speaker 1: common process that I've seen. But you know, then there's

805
00:40:23,916 --> 00:40:27,796
Speaker 1: somebody like Bruno who's just like ultimate like songcraft, and

806
00:40:27,876 --> 00:40:30,876
Speaker 1: just like nothing goes down until like the best thing

807
00:40:30,996 --> 00:40:33,556
Speaker 1: is written in his brain. You know, do you remember

808
00:40:33,596 --> 00:40:35,756
Speaker 1: the very first time you were ever in a recording studio.

809
00:40:36,316 --> 00:40:38,516
Speaker 1: I think I do. I think it was probably with

810
00:40:38,556 --> 00:40:41,956
Speaker 1: my stepdad. I remember being in one of those studios

811
00:40:41,956 --> 00:40:44,036
Speaker 1: in Midtown in New York that's not there anymore, like

812
00:40:44,116 --> 00:40:48,236
Speaker 1: right Track or something, and I remember loving it. I remember,

813
00:40:48,596 --> 00:40:51,276
Speaker 1: I mean, other than my stepdad's home studio, which had

814
00:40:51,316 --> 00:40:53,796
Speaker 1: like a little a track and some stuff, and that

815
00:40:53,996 --> 00:40:58,236
Speaker 1: feeling very homely. There was something about like studios are

816
00:40:58,236 --> 00:41:00,556
Speaker 1: just so warm, and it's wood everywhere, and if it's

817
00:41:00,596 --> 00:41:03,196
Speaker 1: not wood, it's like a christianie paneling and there's lights

818
00:41:03,196 --> 00:41:06,276
Speaker 1: and they're all cool and it looks like some retro

819
00:41:06,436 --> 00:41:10,916
Speaker 1: futuristic spaceship. And I just remember, like, you know, the

820
00:41:11,036 --> 00:41:13,956
Speaker 1: black leather couch that's like in every kind of like

821
00:41:14,076 --> 00:41:16,996
Speaker 1: stock like New York studio that time, like that just

822
00:41:17,036 --> 00:41:20,876
Speaker 1: felt so good to me. That was like very like

823
00:41:21,036 --> 00:41:23,996
Speaker 1: warm and fuzzy. We're gonna take a quick break and

824
00:41:24,036 --> 00:41:26,116
Speaker 1: then we'll be back with more from Rick Ruben and

825
00:41:26,156 --> 00:41:32,236
Speaker 1: Mark Ronson. We're back with the rest of Rick Rubin's

826
00:41:32,276 --> 00:41:37,076
Speaker 1: conversation with Mark ronson do you shouzam? I do I

827
00:41:37,116 --> 00:41:39,556
Speaker 1: SHOs am quite a lot. Actually, I'm sure I shozam

828
00:41:39,636 --> 00:41:43,716
Speaker 1: something today. It's this greatest invention ever. It's really it

829
00:41:43,796 --> 00:41:46,076
Speaker 1: really is great. You know. When I first got it,

830
00:41:46,076 --> 00:41:47,916
Speaker 1: it was always like if I was in a record

831
00:41:47,996 --> 00:41:51,756
Speaker 1: store like HMV, some big record shop in England, like

832
00:41:51,796 --> 00:41:53,916
Speaker 1: if a song was so bad, I had to know

833
00:41:53,956 --> 00:41:56,196
Speaker 1: what it was. So like in the beginning, my thing

834
00:41:56,276 --> 00:41:59,276
Speaker 1: was really like like I would have been horrified if

835
00:41:59,276 --> 00:42:01,316
Speaker 1: anybody had ever looked through my think I'd be like, wait,

836
00:42:01,436 --> 00:42:03,756
Speaker 1: you like that. I'm not going to call anyone out.

837
00:42:03,796 --> 00:42:07,676
Speaker 1: But like the other day, I was in a taxi

838
00:42:07,676 --> 00:42:10,116
Speaker 1: cab in England and I never and there's a song

839
00:42:10,156 --> 00:42:12,356
Speaker 1: on it. It's got like this killing rhythm section, but

840
00:42:12,396 --> 00:42:14,756
Speaker 1: it's like sounds like a psychedelic sixties song, like one

841
00:42:14,796 --> 00:42:17,236
Speaker 1: of those songs that's on Nuggets. And it's right into

842
00:42:17,276 --> 00:42:19,516
Speaker 1: the Sun by lou Reid. Like I had no idea

843
00:42:19,676 --> 00:42:23,196
Speaker 1: lou Reid had made like a whole record with like

844
00:42:23,316 --> 00:42:26,716
Speaker 1: this killer rhythm section, Like I just I love it.

845
00:42:26,796 --> 00:42:32,156
Speaker 1: I just shazam. It's just so great changed our lives. Yeah,

846
00:42:32,276 --> 00:42:35,836
Speaker 1: how often do you hear something that comes out new

847
00:42:36,036 --> 00:42:39,556
Speaker 1: that you love like pretty often. I mean, I feel

848
00:42:39,556 --> 00:42:41,596
Speaker 1: a little bit out of touch because that the way

849
00:42:41,596 --> 00:42:43,916
Speaker 1: that I would stay in touch with new music before

850
00:42:44,156 --> 00:42:46,836
Speaker 1: was from djaying, and I would have to because I'd

851
00:42:46,836 --> 00:42:48,756
Speaker 1: want to like play new shit in my set and

852
00:42:48,836 --> 00:42:51,596
Speaker 1: not look like I was kind of falling behind the times.

853
00:42:51,636 --> 00:42:54,516
Speaker 1: But I do think there's been a few see changes

854
00:42:54,556 --> 00:42:58,276
Speaker 1: in music that have just really gotten like to things

855
00:42:58,276 --> 00:43:02,356
Speaker 1: that I don't understand as much anymore. Like I realized

856
00:43:02,436 --> 00:43:06,076
Speaker 1: like the vitality and why things in new hip hop

857
00:43:06,076 --> 00:43:08,196
Speaker 1: and new pop music are exciting. But I might not

858
00:43:08,236 --> 00:43:10,396
Speaker 1: connect with him in this same way. And I think

859
00:43:10,436 --> 00:43:12,196
Speaker 1: I used to connect with them because you'd go see

860
00:43:12,196 --> 00:43:13,876
Speaker 1: it in the club and if you didn't quite get

861
00:43:13,916 --> 00:43:15,996
Speaker 1: a record, then when you saw everybody lose their fucking

862
00:43:15,996 --> 00:43:18,236
Speaker 1: shit to check West, you're like, oh fuck, this record

863
00:43:18,276 --> 00:43:21,796
Speaker 1: is a monster. Like so I trying to think of

864
00:43:21,796 --> 00:43:25,476
Speaker 1: the last There's still things that come out all the

865
00:43:25,476 --> 00:43:28,796
Speaker 1: time that I love, and I always know like that

866
00:43:29,276 --> 00:43:32,396
Speaker 1: feeling if there's like a pang of jealousy the second

867
00:43:32,516 --> 00:43:34,316
Speaker 1: like the first second I hear it, like oh man,

868
00:43:34,436 --> 00:43:36,156
Speaker 1: this is so good. I wish I did that or

869
00:43:36,876 --> 00:43:38,756
Speaker 1: even like I don't know how to do that, but

870
00:43:38,836 --> 00:43:42,116
Speaker 1: this thing that I still love that feeling. I just

871
00:43:42,476 --> 00:43:45,396
Speaker 1: maybe I'm just a little bit more out of touch recently.

872
00:43:46,116 --> 00:43:48,836
Speaker 1: When you would hear something new and decide to put

873
00:43:48,836 --> 00:43:52,556
Speaker 1: it into a set, how often were your instincts about

874
00:43:52,556 --> 00:43:55,956
Speaker 1: how the reaction would be if it was something less known,

875
00:43:56,116 --> 00:44:00,076
Speaker 1: something maybe even unknown. Yeah, I think if you were good,

876
00:44:00,116 --> 00:44:02,436
Speaker 1: it was like you knew where to sandwich it to

877
00:44:02,516 --> 00:44:04,716
Speaker 1: just make sure it was like a trojan horse, you know,

878
00:44:04,716 --> 00:44:06,396
Speaker 1: if I can dress it up and fit it between

879
00:44:06,436 --> 00:44:10,116
Speaker 1: these two records and just and have something ready. I

880
00:44:10,156 --> 00:44:13,476
Speaker 1: think I was probably so in sync with my crowds

881
00:44:13,476 --> 00:44:15,356
Speaker 1: and the crowds that I was playing for, even though

882
00:44:15,356 --> 00:44:17,556
Speaker 1: they would change every night, that I had a good

883
00:44:17,596 --> 00:44:20,356
Speaker 1: feeling of like what would work. And you know, every

884
00:44:20,396 --> 00:44:23,476
Speaker 1: now and then it just doesn't work. But most of

885
00:44:23,476 --> 00:44:26,796
Speaker 1: the time it was it was great. And how often

886
00:44:26,836 --> 00:44:29,636
Speaker 1: would you play something from a different genre than was

887
00:44:29,676 --> 00:44:32,996
Speaker 1: expected beyond back in black? I mean I always hated

888
00:44:33,036 --> 00:44:35,716
Speaker 1: the term mash up because DJs have been doing blends

889
00:44:35,796 --> 00:44:37,636
Speaker 1: forever and it was just like it was like a

890
00:44:37,756 --> 00:44:40,716
Speaker 1: very reductive and slightly gimmicky thing. But I mean it

891
00:44:40,836 --> 00:44:43,156
Speaker 1: was also kind of exciting when it first happened, and

892
00:44:43,916 --> 00:44:47,076
Speaker 1: I would take records that I love, like Blur a

893
00:44:47,116 --> 00:44:49,036
Speaker 1: song too, and I was like, I can't just throw

894
00:44:49,036 --> 00:44:51,676
Speaker 1: on Blur a song too. But if I throw a

895
00:44:51,676 --> 00:44:55,676
Speaker 1: Biggie Nasty Boy over the top of it the a cappella,

896
00:44:55,756 --> 00:44:57,836
Speaker 1: then everyone's kind of dancing and then we can see

897
00:44:57,836 --> 00:45:00,436
Speaker 1: where we go from there, and then you know, every

898
00:45:00,476 --> 00:45:02,276
Speaker 1: now and then, you know, some of the clubs that

899
00:45:02,276 --> 00:45:04,636
Speaker 1: I was playing in there were like these you know,

900
00:45:04,956 --> 00:45:08,716
Speaker 1: pretty like high end, powerful like drug dealers that were

901
00:45:08,756 --> 00:45:11,676
Speaker 1: coming in to like spend two grand and have a

902
00:45:11,716 --> 00:45:15,316
Speaker 1: good time and pop champagne and look like you know,

903
00:45:15,876 --> 00:45:19,356
Speaker 1: ballers and so like. Occasionally I remember playing like one

904
00:45:19,396 --> 00:45:20,996
Speaker 1: of those rock records in the middle of the night

905
00:45:20,996 --> 00:45:22,996
Speaker 1: and the guy just like leaning over the booth because

906
00:45:22,996 --> 00:45:25,996
Speaker 1: a club Cheetah, the booth was behind the there was

907
00:45:26,036 --> 00:45:28,636
Speaker 1: a booth right next to the GD with this guy

908
00:45:28,676 --> 00:45:31,156
Speaker 1: just leaning over and just being like, what the fuck

909
00:45:31,196 --> 00:45:33,796
Speaker 1: are you playing White Boy, like very very seriously to me.

910
00:45:33,876 --> 00:45:37,276
Speaker 1: So like, I think that most of the times it

911
00:45:37,316 --> 00:45:39,716
Speaker 1: got over, And I think that New York crowds are

912
00:45:39,796 --> 00:45:43,876
Speaker 1: quite open, like regardless of genre. But the reason that

913
00:45:43,916 --> 00:45:47,476
Speaker 1: I sort of made my record version, which was like

914
00:45:47,516 --> 00:45:50,396
Speaker 1: these covers of songs by the Smiths and Radiohead and

915
00:45:50,436 --> 00:45:54,076
Speaker 1: the Jam and like the Zootones and these rock bands,

916
00:45:54,956 --> 00:45:57,876
Speaker 1: was because I wanted to play those songs and I

917
00:45:57,956 --> 00:46:00,676
Speaker 1: was getting a little burnt. I've been playing hip hop,

918
00:46:00,756 --> 00:46:02,356
Speaker 1: R and B and dance hall for about ten years

919
00:46:02,356 --> 00:46:04,796
Speaker 1: in clubs, and I was just like I couldn't quite

920
00:46:04,796 --> 00:46:07,156
Speaker 1: play just by Radiohead and a club, and I couldn't

921
00:46:07,196 --> 00:46:08,756
Speaker 1: play stop me if you think that you heard this

922
00:46:08,756 --> 00:46:10,996
Speaker 1: one before for by the Smiths, like that was just

923
00:46:11,076 --> 00:46:13,396
Speaker 1: going a little too far. There were cool rock and

924
00:46:13,476 --> 00:46:16,956
Speaker 1: roll scenes like Justine Dee and the MisShapes happening in

925
00:46:16,996 --> 00:46:20,276
Speaker 1: New York just about that time. That wasn't me. And

926
00:46:20,316 --> 00:46:21,836
Speaker 1: so I was like, you know what, I'm going to

927
00:46:21,916 --> 00:46:24,436
Speaker 1: make covers of these songs that I love and redo

928
00:46:24,436 --> 00:46:26,596
Speaker 1: them in arrangements that I can kind of like get

929
00:46:26,636 --> 00:46:28,916
Speaker 1: over with my crowd. And it was really just like

930
00:46:28,996 --> 00:46:32,116
Speaker 1: I just made them to just play like I didn't

931
00:46:32,116 --> 00:46:34,076
Speaker 1: ever think that they would come out. I didn't really.

932
00:46:34,596 --> 00:46:36,836
Speaker 1: There wasn't even enough, and I thought in my head,

933
00:46:36,836 --> 00:46:38,156
Speaker 1: I was just like, this is for my crowds, and

934
00:46:38,156 --> 00:46:40,076
Speaker 1: this is something I can work on this Will Be Fun,

935
00:46:40,596 --> 00:46:43,476
Speaker 1: and I did radiohead cover that I did started to

936
00:46:43,476 --> 00:46:45,516
Speaker 1: get a lot of play by Zane Low and Giles

937
00:46:45,516 --> 00:46:49,076
Speaker 1: Peterson on Radio one in England, and that's what got

938
00:46:49,076 --> 00:46:52,676
Speaker 1: me signed to Columbia because I'd been dropped by Electra

939
00:46:52,756 --> 00:46:55,236
Speaker 1: after my first record came out and sold like eighty copies.

940
00:46:55,716 --> 00:46:58,876
Speaker 1: And suddenly I was sitting on this album of covers

941
00:46:58,916 --> 00:47:01,756
Speaker 1: and this one that's ready on the radio. And so

942
00:47:01,996 --> 00:47:05,356
Speaker 1: that kind of weird backfiring of the DJ set then

943
00:47:05,756 --> 00:47:09,316
Speaker 1: inspired this other creative outlet, which was you know, I

944
00:47:09,356 --> 00:47:11,996
Speaker 1: guess I never thought about it in those terms if

945
00:47:12,036 --> 00:47:16,356
Speaker 1: it's interesting. So your career as an artist really was

946
00:47:16,396 --> 00:47:22,076
Speaker 1: an offshoot of the djaying for real, Like it really was. Yeah,

947
00:47:22,116 --> 00:47:24,956
Speaker 1: Like I was starting to produce records and I did

948
00:47:24,956 --> 00:47:27,516
Speaker 1: the sneaker costs to record, but I never thought I

949
00:47:27,636 --> 00:47:29,956
Speaker 1: never had any designs. There was no ego thing like

950
00:47:29,996 --> 00:47:31,596
Speaker 1: I want to be the artist, I want to be

951
00:47:31,636 --> 00:47:34,956
Speaker 1: in front. But there was this era of like although

952
00:47:34,996 --> 00:47:37,916
Speaker 1: I wasn't as like I didn't have the same pedigree

953
00:47:37,916 --> 00:47:40,836
Speaker 1: as like super hip hop like on the radio, like

954
00:47:40,876 --> 00:47:43,116
Speaker 1: the level of DJ Clue or flex or stuff. This

955
00:47:43,196 --> 00:47:45,796
Speaker 1: was this era that everybody was getting a deal to

956
00:47:45,836 --> 00:47:50,876
Speaker 1: make a mixtape album, and Sylvie Aaron and Josh Deutsch

957
00:47:51,036 --> 00:47:53,076
Speaker 1: like I was the guy DJing, like the kind of

958
00:47:53,556 --> 00:47:57,556
Speaker 1: clubs that were like not as packed but still had

959
00:47:57,596 --> 00:48:00,996
Speaker 1: this cool thing. It was its own downtown scene. And

960
00:48:01,116 --> 00:48:05,236
Speaker 1: so I got this deal and I was like, cool,

961
00:48:05,236 --> 00:48:08,436
Speaker 1: I'll make the DJ mixtape but with original music on it.

962
00:48:08,636 --> 00:48:12,476
Speaker 1: But that except for that minor like ghost Face and

963
00:48:12,516 --> 00:48:16,516
Speaker 1: a Dog record, really did nothing. And then the weird

964
00:48:17,076 --> 00:48:21,116
Speaker 1: backwards way of going about having this radiohead and these

965
00:48:21,116 --> 00:48:25,396
Speaker 1: covers records that led to me becoming a sort of

966
00:48:25,436 --> 00:48:28,876
Speaker 1: accidental artist, like especially in the UK where that album,

967
00:48:28,916 --> 00:48:32,156
Speaker 1: you know, was especially popular. It was very strange. But

968
00:48:32,196 --> 00:48:34,836
Speaker 1: I've always thought about it like I don't really care

969
00:48:34,876 --> 00:48:39,276
Speaker 1: if my name is in the artist slot the producer slot,

970
00:48:39,316 --> 00:48:41,396
Speaker 1: Like I don't feel any different or any more proud

971
00:48:41,476 --> 00:48:43,956
Speaker 1: or less proud of the record. It's just I think

972
00:48:43,956 --> 00:48:46,596
Speaker 1: on my artist records, I get to do things that

973
00:48:46,716 --> 00:48:49,596
Speaker 1: don't really have a place on anybody's record. Like I

974
00:48:49,676 --> 00:48:52,556
Speaker 1: was working with Amy on Back to Black while I

975
00:48:52,596 --> 00:48:55,516
Speaker 1: was making version, and I just said, hey, I'm making

976
00:48:55,516 --> 00:48:57,356
Speaker 1: this covers record, is there a song that you like?

977
00:48:57,436 --> 00:48:59,796
Speaker 1: And she played me the song Valerie by the Zootones,

978
00:48:59,796 --> 00:49:01,836
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, that's cool, let's do that.

979
00:49:01,916 --> 00:49:03,996
Speaker 1: Like I think that she wouldn't have made a cover

980
00:49:04,076 --> 00:49:06,196
Speaker 1: of Valerie for her own record. It wouldn't have cross

981
00:49:06,236 --> 00:49:08,836
Speaker 1: her mind. But there's this fun thing that happens when

982
00:49:09,196 --> 00:49:12,156
Speaker 1: people a little more free, they're a little less precious even,

983
00:49:12,236 --> 00:49:14,156
Speaker 1: you know, like it's on your record, fuck it, Yeah,

984
00:49:14,236 --> 00:49:17,116
Speaker 1: let's do something for fun. Sure, So that's kind of

985
00:49:17,676 --> 00:49:21,116
Speaker 1: the only thing that that serves. Would you say your

986
00:49:21,116 --> 00:49:24,716
Speaker 1: relationship to music has changed over the course of your life. Yes,

987
00:49:25,396 --> 00:49:28,516
Speaker 1: If somebody like was like, okay, would you consider yourself

988
00:49:28,876 --> 00:49:31,636
Speaker 1: more of a fan of music or somebody who actually

989
00:49:31,636 --> 00:49:34,676
Speaker 1: creates music, I really wouldn't know how to answer that question.

990
00:49:34,676 --> 00:49:37,396
Speaker 1: I still don't. I still get as excited. And if

991
00:49:37,436 --> 00:49:40,436
Speaker 1: I had to, it's a really silly question because there's

992
00:49:40,436 --> 00:49:42,076
Speaker 1: no war what that would happen. But if I had

993
00:49:42,076 --> 00:49:43,916
Speaker 1: to choose between one or the other, being a fan

994
00:49:43,956 --> 00:49:46,476
Speaker 1: and a listener or a creator, it would be very

995
00:49:46,476 --> 00:49:51,876
Speaker 1: hard to imagine. I think I'm more patient, certainly in

996
00:49:51,956 --> 00:49:54,476
Speaker 1: the studio as well, like I have less like ego

997
00:49:54,596 --> 00:49:59,676
Speaker 1: running the show, and I love occasionally being wrong, like

998
00:49:59,756 --> 00:50:02,996
Speaker 1: even if your pride hurts for like a second. When

999
00:50:02,996 --> 00:50:04,716
Speaker 1: somebody has a great idea and they kind of win

1000
00:50:04,756 --> 00:50:06,596
Speaker 1: the argument, you're like, oh, yeah, this song is now

1001
00:50:06,636 --> 00:50:11,076
Speaker 1: better for that theyationship to music like though it's still

1002
00:50:11,676 --> 00:50:14,436
Speaker 1: I went through a period over lockdown and I didn't

1003
00:50:14,436 --> 00:50:16,516
Speaker 1: really have a studio to go to and I was

1004
00:50:16,676 --> 00:50:19,836
Speaker 1: making stuff in Ableton, and although I was excited about

1005
00:50:19,916 --> 00:50:22,476
Speaker 1: learning that thing, it's not quite I am a visceral person.

1006
00:50:22,596 --> 00:50:25,716
Speaker 1: I like having like my like keyboard and the drum

1007
00:50:25,716 --> 00:50:28,756
Speaker 1: machine and this thing, and my music was just suffering

1008
00:50:28,796 --> 00:50:30,876
Speaker 1: because of it, and it was getting kind of shitty.

1009
00:50:30,956 --> 00:50:33,076
Speaker 1: And I was suddenly starting to think, like, Okay, I'm

1010
00:50:33,116 --> 00:50:35,796
Speaker 1: forty five, like I'm already at the tell end of

1011
00:50:35,996 --> 00:50:38,516
Speaker 1: fringe of like what would be like an acceptable age

1012
00:50:38,516 --> 00:50:41,396
Speaker 1: for someone trying to make music for like young people

1013
00:50:41,476 --> 00:50:43,316
Speaker 1: or pop music or whatever you want to call it.

1014
00:50:44,196 --> 00:50:47,636
Speaker 1: I mean, I know there's yourself, is Quincy, there's people

1015
00:50:47,636 --> 00:50:51,636
Speaker 1: that you know definitely who have broken the mold there.

1016
00:50:51,636 --> 00:50:55,316
Speaker 1: But I was just starting to like really doubt my confidence,

1017
00:50:55,516 --> 00:50:58,796
Speaker 1: and I was thinking like maybe I'm phasing out of music,

1018
00:50:58,876 --> 00:51:00,836
Speaker 1: Like maybe that's it. Maybe I'm going to do some

1019
00:51:00,916 --> 00:51:03,716
Speaker 1: more interesting like educational stuff with music and maybe I'll

1020
00:51:04,436 --> 00:51:07,396
Speaker 1: whatever it is this Apple series I was working on

1021
00:51:07,436 --> 00:51:10,156
Speaker 1: with our friend Morgan Neville, like just the documentary. Maybe

1022
00:51:10,196 --> 00:51:12,236
Speaker 1: that's my thing now. And I think some of it

1023
00:51:12,316 --> 00:51:14,796
Speaker 1: was like a little bit of cowardice because I was like, Okay, well,

1024
00:51:14,796 --> 00:51:17,476
Speaker 1: if I don't try, I don't put myself up there

1025
00:51:17,476 --> 00:51:20,316
Speaker 1: on my head above the parapet, nobody can really fuck

1026
00:51:20,396 --> 00:51:22,796
Speaker 1: with me and tell me that I fell off. And

1027
00:51:24,036 --> 00:51:26,796
Speaker 1: then I got back in a studio for the first

1028
00:51:26,796 --> 00:51:30,556
Speaker 1: time like two months ago, and I just like had

1029
00:51:30,596 --> 00:51:32,196
Speaker 1: my shit around me and I said everyone, I was like,

1030
00:51:32,236 --> 00:51:34,956
Speaker 1: oh my god, I love this. Like this is whether

1031
00:51:35,036 --> 00:51:38,396
Speaker 1: I make successful records or not, that's going to be

1032
00:51:38,436 --> 00:51:41,196
Speaker 1: determined by somebody else, But this is my favorite shit

1033
00:51:41,316 --> 00:51:43,436
Speaker 1: to do. How could I kid myself like this is

1034
00:51:43,476 --> 00:51:46,276
Speaker 1: still my thing where I feel alive and like I

1035
00:51:46,316 --> 00:51:48,596
Speaker 1: can look up and oh shit, four hours has just

1036
00:51:48,676 --> 00:51:51,876
Speaker 1: gone by, you know. So I'm very grateful. I mean,

1037
00:51:51,916 --> 00:51:55,956
Speaker 1: my music has been like my fucking compassed noise star,

1038
00:51:56,196 --> 00:51:59,636
Speaker 1: my anchor through life. Like it's only now that probably

1039
00:51:59,676 --> 00:52:02,596
Speaker 1: through therapy work, whatever you want to call it, that

1040
00:52:02,636 --> 00:52:04,916
Speaker 1: I've made time for other things in my life. And

1041
00:52:04,956 --> 00:52:08,716
Speaker 1: I understand that they're important, but music is still this

1042
00:52:09,356 --> 00:52:13,716
Speaker 1: It's my best friend. Yeah amazing. We are blessed to

1043
00:52:13,716 --> 00:52:16,596
Speaker 1: be able to spend our lives with music. It's like

1044
00:52:16,636 --> 00:52:19,196
Speaker 1: that's what we do. It's yeah, so lucky that that's

1045
00:52:19,196 --> 00:52:21,636
Speaker 1: our We do it for fun and we do it

1046
00:52:21,676 --> 00:52:24,076
Speaker 1: for work and it's all the same, you know. Yeah amazing.

1047
00:52:25,676 --> 00:52:30,436
Speaker 1: Tell me about the project with Morgan. So when Apple

1048
00:52:30,596 --> 00:52:34,956
Speaker 1: started their TV division, Kim Rosenfeld, who was running like

1049
00:52:34,996 --> 00:52:38,596
Speaker 1: the nonfiction stuff, came to me and he had seen

1050
00:52:38,596 --> 00:52:40,516
Speaker 1: a ted talk that I had done about sampling and

1051
00:52:40,556 --> 00:52:42,356
Speaker 1: he liked it, and he was like, can we do

1052
00:52:42,436 --> 00:52:45,996
Speaker 1: something that's like that, but like expanded about music because

1053
00:52:46,036 --> 00:52:50,036
Speaker 1: it's sort of it teaches people who don't know anything

1054
00:52:50,076 --> 00:52:52,676
Speaker 1: about sampling and probably didn't care or think that they

1055
00:52:52,716 --> 00:52:55,476
Speaker 1: cared about it, like oh that's why that song I

1056
00:52:55,516 --> 00:52:58,996
Speaker 1: love is like that, and also do it properly. Hopefully

1057
00:52:58,996 --> 00:53:01,476
Speaker 1: it comes off in a way that like, people who

1058
00:53:01,516 --> 00:53:03,836
Speaker 1: do know the shit are also interested in you're not

1059
00:53:03,876 --> 00:53:08,156
Speaker 1: talking down anybody. So he put me with Morgan Neville,

1060
00:53:08,196 --> 00:53:11,236
Speaker 1: which was obviously on my first time at the rodeo

1061
00:53:11,356 --> 00:53:14,156
Speaker 1: being paired with this guy who's made some of my

1062
00:53:14,316 --> 00:53:17,676
Speaker 1: fucking favorite documentaries and incredible and knows so much about

1063
00:53:17,756 --> 00:53:20,676
Speaker 1: music as well. We just dreamed up this show and

1064
00:53:20,716 --> 00:53:23,916
Speaker 1: we figured, you know, there were a hundred ways we

1065
00:53:23,916 --> 00:53:25,756
Speaker 1: could have done it, but what we decided, because it

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00:53:25,796 --> 00:53:27,556
Speaker 1: was going to be six episodes, was to break it

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00:53:27,636 --> 00:53:31,236
Speaker 1: up into different technologies that have changed how you know,

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00:53:31,316 --> 00:53:35,276
Speaker 1: modern pop music and hip hop really evolved. So we

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00:53:35,396 --> 00:53:40,196
Speaker 1: broke it up into reverb, distortion, synthesizers, drum machine sampling,

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00:53:40,196 --> 00:53:44,356
Speaker 1: an auto tune. The ongoing theme of the show of

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00:53:44,556 --> 00:53:47,396
Speaker 1: all these technologies, it is when they first came out,

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00:53:47,636 --> 00:53:49,716
Speaker 1: people really didn't like them, or they were afraid of it,

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00:53:49,836 --> 00:53:51,996
Speaker 1: or somebody thought that this was going to ruin music.

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00:53:52,316 --> 00:53:55,396
Speaker 1: And then somebody uses it kind of in the wrong way,

1075
00:53:55,916 --> 00:53:58,476
Speaker 1: like Prince de tuning the snare on the lyndromes, so

1076
00:53:58,556 --> 00:54:01,956
Speaker 1: instead of sounding like a real lyndrum, it sounded like like,

1077
00:54:02,316 --> 00:54:04,716
Speaker 1: like what the fuck is that? Like all these things

1078
00:54:04,716 --> 00:54:08,316
Speaker 1: that were like not supposed to be done, then suddenly

1079
00:54:08,356 --> 00:54:11,556
Speaker 1: someone geniusly does it in the right way, and then

1080
00:54:11,596 --> 00:54:14,156
Speaker 1: it's wonderful, and then it gets kind of accepted and

1081
00:54:14,196 --> 00:54:17,996
Speaker 1: co opted by everybody, and then things that really came

1082
00:54:18,036 --> 00:54:21,276
Speaker 1: about that we're really lovely. Like I guess it ends

1083
00:54:21,356 --> 00:54:23,516
Speaker 1: up like it's really fun when it's about the technology,

1084
00:54:23,556 --> 00:54:26,036
Speaker 1: but then it really is like nice and gets very

1085
00:54:26,116 --> 00:54:29,036
Speaker 1: humane when it starts to be about the story as

1086
00:54:29,036 --> 00:54:32,676
Speaker 1: soon as beautiful creative people start talking or like, of

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00:54:32,716 --> 00:54:36,676
Speaker 1: course you're gonna go somewhere wonderful. That sounds great. I

1088
00:54:36,756 --> 00:54:39,756
Speaker 1: look forward to watching that. Thank you well, thank you

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00:54:39,796 --> 00:54:42,116
Speaker 1: for doing this. Yeah, thank you for having me. It's

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00:54:42,156 --> 00:54:48,716
Speaker 1: an honor and it's nicest conversation. Thanks to Mark Ronson

1091
00:54:48,876 --> 00:54:51,196
Speaker 1: for walking us through his journey from becoming a DJ

1092
00:54:51,556 --> 00:54:55,076
Speaker 1: to pop music producer. To hear his latest album, Late

1093
00:54:55,196 --> 00:54:58,716
Speaker 1: Night Feelings and our favorite Mark Ronson produced tracks, head

1094
00:54:58,756 --> 00:55:02,116
Speaker 1: to Broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe

1095
00:55:02,156 --> 00:55:05,876
Speaker 1: chart YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast.

1096
00:55:06,276 --> 00:55:08,716
Speaker 1: We can find all of our new episodes. You can

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00:55:08,716 --> 00:55:12,116
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Records produced

1098
00:55:12,236 --> 00:55:16,996
Speaker 1: help from Lea Rhodes, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler,

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00:55:16,996 --> 00:55:20,556
Speaker 1: and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from mc chafee. Our

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00:55:20,596 --> 00:55:24,396
Speaker 1: executive producer is Amia Lavell. Broken Record is a production

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00:55:24,436 --> 00:55:26,916
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries and if you like the show, please

1102
00:55:26,916 --> 00:55:29,716
Speaker 1: remember to share, rate and review us on your podcast,

1103
00:55:29,756 --> 00:55:33,076
Speaker 1: act Our Theme Musics, Bay Canny beats on jer Richmond