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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie

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Speaker 1: missing day twenty three. This, as we learn, a slowed

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Speaker 1: down look at the porch guy reveals what appears to

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Speaker 1: be a cell phone display in the background. Is that

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Speaker 1: why Sheriff Nanos, in his wisdom, continues to say there

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Speaker 1: is an accomplice? Also, do we see identifying markers of

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Speaker 1: a walkie talkie peeking out of the porch guy's pucket?

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Speaker 1: This and so much more the scene has turned shambolic

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Speaker 1: and Nanos is sadly still talking. I'm Nancy Grace. This

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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. What do we know about an accomplice? What

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Speaker 1: is the theory behind that?

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Speaker 2: We don't see a second person, but we know we've

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Speaker 2: got an eighty four year old woman who lacks mobility

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Speaker 2: and is going to need help to lead.

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Speaker 1: How is this happening? How is this happening? Why is

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Speaker 1: it day twenty three? And apparently Nanos is still issuing

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Speaker 1: inane press statements. Let's talk about what the evidence reveals

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Speaker 1: over the weekend. First of all, I want to identify

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Speaker 1: what appears to be and it seems to be convincing.

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Speaker 1: In a slow mo of the Porch Guy video, there

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Speaker 1: appears to be a cell phone display off to the side.

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Speaker 1: Now I want to see that still isolated, still, and

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Speaker 1: I want to see it in slow mo. So if

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Speaker 1: I could get the control room to show that as

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Speaker 1: I go to the guests with me and All Star

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Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we are learning right now.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Dave Matt, Crime Stories investigative reporter, Wow,

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Speaker 1: you really have to slow it down to see it,

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Speaker 1: Dave Matt, should I believe Nano's are my lying eyes?

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Speaker 1: That looks like a cell phone display, Dave.

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Speaker 2: Looks like one to me too, Nancy, And yeah, you

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Speaker 2: got to slow it down, but you can see something

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Speaker 2: clearly there. It's rectangular, you know, it looks like a phone,

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Speaker 2: which this is something we've been pointing to all along

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Speaker 2: that there's got to be help here and check that out. Look,

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Speaker 2: you're seeing it right there on the edge of the screen.

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Speaker 3: Boom.

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Speaker 2: That is not the guy covering up the lens. That

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Speaker 2: is somebody else with that camera or phone.

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Speaker 1: Rather Okay, straight out to all of our guests, Scott

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Speaker 1: Iiker joining me, digital forensics expert founding member, and I

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Speaker 1: can't say this enough of the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey

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Speaker 1: team cast the anachronism currently at PC and Cellular Analysis.

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Speaker 1: He also was in homicide in the Norfolk, Virginia pde Scott,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Why are we we

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Speaker 1: having to slow this down and find it ourselves? Wouldn't

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Speaker 1: this have been helpful for Nanaz to put out there

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Speaker 1: on day one? As soon as Google and the FBI

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Speaker 1: mans to dig it up for him, he said it

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Speaker 1: didn't exist.

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Speaker 4: Recall, I do recall that initially they thought they couldn't

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Speaker 4: get any video. But this is what the cast team does.

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Speaker 4: Whether we saw a camera in the video or not,

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Speaker 4: or suspect that to be a camera cast. The FBI's

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Speaker 4: cast team is going to be work looking at all

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Speaker 4: the cell phones in the area no matter what. So

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Speaker 4: it's going to take a.

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Speaker 5: Lot of time.

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Speaker 4: We've got dumps from the all the major cell phone

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Speaker 4: companies in that area and now we just have to

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Speaker 4: weed through all those phone numbers to figure out which

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Speaker 4: ones are pertinent to the case and which ones are not.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Scott, Iiker, have you ever been on the witness

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Speaker 1: stand Well.

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Speaker 5: I've testifies as an expert over twenty times.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I take that simply as a yes. Okay,

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Speaker 1: have you ever had a lawyer jump up in the

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Speaker 1: middle of your testimony and state your honor? I object

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Speaker 1: that is non responsive to my question.

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Speaker 5: Yes, ma'am, you ever heard that?

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Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am, okay, because you just told me about it.

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Speaker 1: Do I look like I just fell off the tournament truck?

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Speaker 1: Let's establish that first, Do I not?

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Speaker 5: Today?

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Speaker 1: Okay? I'm going to ignore that barb to suggest that

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Speaker 1: I did look like I fell off the tournament truck

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Speaker 1: on an earlier occasion, and move forward. Scott, I respect you.

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Speaker 1: You have a pristine reputation and expertise beyond anyone else

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Speaker 1: I know when it comes to digital data. But I

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Speaker 1: asked you not about the cell phone data dump in

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Speaker 1: the area. We've already established that cast did that. I'm

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Speaker 1: talking to you about the video that we keep showing

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Speaker 1: on the screen. Looky, looky, you can see a cell

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Speaker 1: phone light up in the back, and I'm very surprised

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Speaker 1: that's happening and we're finding out about it right now. Okay,

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Speaker 1: look hold on while you look at that. Let me

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Speaker 1: go to Coles Rude joining me now, veteran trial lawyer

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Speaker 1: Josh Coles Rude from this jurisdiction, currently criminal defense attorney,

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Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor, founder of Cols Root Law Offices. Josh,

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Speaker 1: I actually don't need an esteemed founder a cellular announce

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Speaker 1: as survey team to tell me what I'm seeing. Do

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Speaker 1: you see that, Josh, Yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 6: It looks like there is something protruding out of somebody's

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Speaker 6: pocket that resembles a phone, and this could be the

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Speaker 6: smoking gun that we're all waiting for. I mean, this

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Speaker 6: cellular phone, as we all know, has so much data

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Speaker 6: that if that phone is on, it's only a matter

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Speaker 6: of time before the FBI gets a hold of the information.

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Speaker 6: Hopefully we're able to identify as suspect soon.

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Speaker 1: Only a matter of time. Okay, you know what, Iker,

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Speaker 1: I think you are a step ahead of me. So

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Speaker 1: you're saying, and I'm giving you the huge benefit of

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Speaker 1: the doubt here, I think you're saying that that cell phone,

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Speaker 1: if it exists, would have been picked up in the

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Speaker 1: data dump.

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Speaker 7: That's correct, Is that what you're.

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Speaker 5: Saying, yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: Okay. What I don't get is, okay, let's just keep

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Speaker 1: seeing it. The viewers have seen the guests. I want

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Speaker 1: to look at that picture. I want to look at

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Speaker 1: that in slow mode. I want to look at that

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Speaker 1: in iso, Scott Iker, based on the shape of it,

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Speaker 1: based on where we're seeing it. Thank you for circling it.

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Speaker 1: That's perfect, Thank you, Control room. How could it be

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Speaker 1: anything else?

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Speaker 5: That's tough to.

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Speaker 4: I do see the kind of rectangular flash of possibly

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Speaker 4: a cell phone. Is it a reflection from something else?

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Speaker 5: Is that you know?

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Speaker 4: I have no idea what it is. I give you

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Speaker 4: the benefit of the doubt that that could be a

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Speaker 4: cell phone. And we're assuming that they're going to have

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Speaker 4: a cell phone anyway, it really doesn't matter whether we

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Speaker 4: see it in the camera.

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Speaker 5: We're going to assume they have one.

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Speaker 1: No, but this is a second person. It's not the

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Speaker 1: person struggling with the foliage Scott, it's a second person

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Speaker 1: with a cell phone. I need to see it again,

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Speaker 1: please in slow mo if you can. Because some people

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Speaker 1: suggest maybe it's the reflective backpack. I don't see how

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Speaker 1: that's possible right there at that juncture. Dave Matt, what

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Speaker 1: do you think about the possibility it's the reflection on

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Speaker 1: the backpack, because it seems to show up and then

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Speaker 1: go away, and that wouldn't be so if it were

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Speaker 1: the backpack.

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Speaker 3: I think it really is.

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Speaker 2: When you look at where the suspect his standing, okay,

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Speaker 2: and where he's moving his hand, the backpack is going

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Speaker 2: to be more towards the center of the screen, so

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Speaker 2: you know he's using his left hand on the shrubbery

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Speaker 2: there to try to cover the lens. So to me,

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Speaker 2: it looks like this is something clearly being moved by

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Speaker 2: someone else on the other side of the suspect here.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't, you know, That's what I'm seeing.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, Okay, Coles, Ruth, have you looked at this and

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Speaker 1: what if so? Tell me your analysis.

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Speaker 6: You know, my first thought is this couldn't be the

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Speaker 6: backpack because it would be obstructed by the body. I mean,

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Speaker 6: the backpack is on the back and when you look

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Speaker 6: at this, it just it resembles what any layman would

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Speaker 6: say as a cell phone, and it needs to be

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Speaker 6: investigated one way or the other.

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Speaker 1: Well the reason okay, remember Josh, and also with me,

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Speaker 1: of course, Scott Iiker John Buehler has Do we have

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Speaker 1: John satellite up control room? Yes?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: Maybe okay, let me know when Bueller joins. The reason

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's the backpack. Gosh, if you look

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Speaker 1: at the backpack, there's also reflective strips right here in

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Speaker 1: the front. So I think that that is what some

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Speaker 1: people are talking about. But the issue is played again.

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Speaker 1: Please when you see it pop up, it's disjointed from

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Speaker 1: the actor. It's disjointed from him. It darts in as

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Speaker 1: he's already acting. See what I mean. It's not connected

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Speaker 1: to his movements, which makes me think it's not the backpack. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's my question. How has this gone unnoticed this far?

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Speaker 1: Scott Iiker were this late into the game where day

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Speaker 1: twenty three and online sleuths and our staff are having

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Speaker 1: to find this information.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's gone unnoticed. I just think they

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Speaker 4: just have a pointed a doubt. Once we get those

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Speaker 4: type videos, there's a ton of people analyzing it. The

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Speaker 4: analyst from the FBI and the Sheriff's department, and we're

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Speaker 4: going to make assumptions. Some assumptions is that is there

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Speaker 4: an accomplist or not. We've got to look at that.

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Speaker 4: What are the clothing that he's wearing, We've got to

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Speaker 4: look at that. We're assuming they're going to use cell

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Speaker 4: phones because everybody has a cell phone. Now, is there

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Speaker 4: a walkie talkie? Those are all things that we're going

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Speaker 4: to have to jump into and try to look through

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Speaker 4: and investigate.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of a wakee talkie crime stories with Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about cellular signals such

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Speaker 1: as Nancy Guthries pacemaker, such as let's just say an

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Speaker 1: iPad that hasn't connected, such as you connect or car

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Speaker 1: Wi Fi. You know a lot of cars have it

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Speaker 1: built in. It doesn't show up with Cellular Analysis Survey Team.

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Speaker 1: We'll just call it the FBI. It doesn't show up

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Speaker 1: with FBI the way a cell phone would, but it's

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Speaker 1: still emitting a Wi Fi signal. Here's my question to you.

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Speaker 1: Would a walkie talkie emit such a signal? Scott Iiker I.

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Speaker 5: Don't believe so.

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Speaker 4: Most of the walkie talkies are a point to point transmission.

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Speaker 4: That's why they're a very short range. They would not

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Speaker 4: connect with the cell phone tower itself, So we're not

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Speaker 4: going to see any record of that unless it's a

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Speaker 4: you know, they're using a walkie talkie feature on a

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Speaker 4: cell phone, which is a little bit different. Next, tell

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Speaker 4: used to have that where you could do push to

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Speaker 4: talk and then you could you're basically, you know, making

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Speaker 4: a quick call to another phone, but that was still

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Speaker 4: using a cell phone tower. But if you're thinking of

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Speaker 4: a walkie talkie that you might use while you're hunting

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Speaker 4: with a buddy just to keep track of each other,

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Speaker 4: that's not going to use a cell phone tower, and

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Speaker 4: we're not going to be able to track it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I've made a list of devices that I think

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Speaker 1: would show up. Some of them I've already mentioned, like

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Speaker 1: your car FI, an iPad, trying to connect a smart watch,

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Speaker 1: many devices, and I want to circle back to you

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Speaker 1: on smart watch, Scott Iiker, But I want you to

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Speaker 1: see this. Everybody on the panel, take a look at this.

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Speaker 1: It looks as if a walkie talkie i'll just call

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Speaker 1: it an antenna for lack of a better word, is

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Speaker 1: protruding from the porch guy's right pocket. Look at that.

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Speaker 1: I okay, that looks yeah, that's his left pocket. Look

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Speaker 1: at that left pocket. Can we can we zoom in

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Speaker 1: on that again? And if you could give me a

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Speaker 1: steal and enlarge it. It looks like the antenna of

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Speaker 1: a walkie talkie, which further signifies an accomplice. Okay, straight

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Speaker 1: back out to veteran trial lawyer joining us tonight, Josh

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Speaker 1: Coles rut. He's in this jurisdiction, good or bad that

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Speaker 1: there is an accomplice. I say good because it's easier

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Speaker 1: to find two people than it is to find one person. Plus,

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Speaker 1: the more people that are involved, the more likely somebody's

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Speaker 1: going to blab or the more likely. Isn't it always

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Speaker 1: the way, Josh? It's the girlfriend, the wife, the mother,

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Speaker 1: the ex, the little low lady that lives next door

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Speaker 1: to blurt out, hey, wait a minute, I saw fill

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Speaker 1: in the blank. The more people you have involved, the

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Speaker 1: more likely the case is going to be solved. So

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Speaker 1: if there's a walkie talking in play, that tells me

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Speaker 1: there is somebody.

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Speaker 6: Else exactly, and you know, there's an old saying loose

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Speaker 6: lips sink ships. And the more people you have involved,

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Speaker 6: the more likely somebody is going to open their mouth.

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Speaker 6: They're going to brag about it to their girlfriend, they're

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Speaker 6: going to fell maybe they're left out and they want money,

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Speaker 6: who knows. The more people involved, the greater the likelihood

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Speaker 6: that this conspiracy is going to be exposed. Coming up back.

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Speaker 1: To you, what about the possibility that a walkie that

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Speaker 1: is a walkie talkie protruding from his pocket. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean to you?

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Speaker 4: Evidentiarily, well, it's obviously a little more pre planned and

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Speaker 4: more complicated than we thought initially when we see the

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Speaker 4: you know, the perpetrators actually planning this a little bit

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Speaker 4: better if they're planning to have walkie talkies, even though

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Speaker 4: the guy kind of looked fumbling around on the front porch,

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Speaker 4: maybe these guys are a little more sophisticated than we thought,

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Speaker 4: using walkie talkies to communicate for you know, security, for themselves,

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Speaker 4: to say, hey, there's someone walking down the street, get

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Speaker 4: out of there, or something like that.

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Speaker 7: It means to me.

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Speaker 4: That if that is a walkie talkie, that we're gonna,

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Speaker 4: you know, have to be a little more concerned that

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Speaker 4: these guys are more professional than we thought.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm thinking through what you just said. Also, I

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Speaker 1: want to find out, Dave Mac, isn't it true that

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Speaker 1: you can get these at Walmart too? I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you Walmart is kidnapped Central. We've got the backpack

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Speaker 1: can be bought at Walmart. Now, Nanos, tell me about

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Speaker 1: what Nanos just said, Dave Mac. Didn't he say that

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Speaker 1: they are currently closing in on tracking down all of

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Speaker 1: the clothing, not just the backpack at Walmart, because I

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Speaker 1: mean a million people buy that backpack. But if one

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Speaker 1: person comes in and buys the backpack, buys the shirt, buys,

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Speaker 1: the pants, buys, the shoes, buys the walkie talkie, buys

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Speaker 1: that polyester holster that we know is sold at two

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Speaker 1: twos on Walmart's that's going to make it a lot

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Speaker 1: easier to find if you see more than one of

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Speaker 1: those articles on a receipt, or more than one of

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Speaker 1: those articles on an Amazon search or purchase, which is

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Speaker 1: another thing. Ikeer, don't let me forget to ask you

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Speaker 1: about how we can bring Amazon into this search. So

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Speaker 1: what did you learn? Are these sold at Walmart? Also,

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Speaker 1: Dave mac And what did nanos say about identifying all

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Speaker 1: the clothing?

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Speaker 2: Well, let's start with the walkie talkies, Nancy, we had

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Speaker 2: a shot of it a minute ago. The producers in

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Speaker 2: New York actually went on Walmart and pulled up the

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Speaker 2: walkie talkie that appears to be the right size that

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Speaker 2: would go in that pocket with an antenna sticking up there.

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Speaker 2: It is right there on the screen, and that is

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Speaker 2: sold at Walmart. Now, what Nanos is talking about about

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Speaker 2: the identifying the rest of the clothing.

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Speaker 3: I feel like you should pick up the phone.

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Speaker 2: And call our producers in New York because the day

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Speaker 2: we had the video, they Angelica and the team there

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Speaker 2: were blowing it up with all of the things they saw,

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Speaker 2: the backpack, the possible clothing, the guys the person is

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Speaker 2: wearing from the pullover hat, you know, with the three

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Speaker 2: holes in it. They were breaking down all of the clothing.

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Speaker 2: Nanos is now saying, we're close to identifying all of

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Speaker 2: the clothing that is seen. I'm thinking, well, so is

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Speaker 2: everybody else. It's not like this is that big of

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Speaker 2: a deal. Now here's the kick.

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Speaker 3: Nancy.

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Speaker 2: You pointed out that the the really nasty little holster

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Speaker 2: you know that carried in the front that doesn't even

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Speaker 2: fit the gun that's only sold it to Tucson area

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Speaker 2: Walmart's The one thing I tend to agree with nan

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Speaker 2: Is is that this is a Tucson person. So that's

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Speaker 2: where they got the list they took that investigators took

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Speaker 2: a list of potential people with pictures to local gun shops.

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Speaker 2: These were people they found in the stores at Walmart day.

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Speaker 1: We here on this panel, probably these guests right here.

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Speaker 1: Established the guys a Tucson area resident on day one

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Speaker 1: because he picked out two local stations to send his

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Speaker 1: ransom note to. Of course, that is taking into account.

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Speaker 1: Is the ransom note really even connected to her disappearance,

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Speaker 1: which I've got a whole theory that it's not because

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Speaker 1: they never produced proof of life. That's a whole other

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Speaker 1: can of worms. Back to the walkie talking let's button

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Speaker 1: that down before we move to the next topic. Go ahead, David, yep.

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Speaker 2: The wakie talkies are sold at Walmart. Clearly we had

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Speaker 2: the photo of it right there online and it is available.

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Speaker 2: Those walkie talkies are available into song at Walmart. There's

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Speaker 2: thirteen Walmarts.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Back to Iiker Scott Aiker joining us former homicide

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Speaker 1: with Norfolk PD, Norfolk PD also FBI now precision Cellularanalysis

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Speaker 1: dot com. How could we possibly track a walkie talkie

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Speaker 1: and twenty twenty six there's got to be a way.

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Speaker 1: But if it's not emitting Wi Fi, it's not connected

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Speaker 1: to a cell phone. Have we been outsmarted?

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Speaker 5: I don't think we're outsmarted. You know, some of the newer.

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Speaker 4: Walkie talkies have a lot of other aspects to them,

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Speaker 4: just other than being the walkie talkie. They're also GPS enabled,

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Speaker 4: so there might be other ways that we can get

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Speaker 4: different indications that the walkie talkies are in the area.

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Speaker 4: But in my mind, that's kind of a tough thing

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Speaker 4: to do. We assumed they had cell phones. Walkie talkies

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Speaker 4: might be a way that they have kind of outsmarted

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Speaker 4: the technology. We'll have to dig it further into it.

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Speaker 1: So are you telling me there's no way to trace

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Speaker 1: a walkie talkie.

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Speaker 5: I don't think there is.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if you had the walkie talkie itself, you

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Speaker 4: get backtracked to where it was bought, stuff like that.

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Speaker 4: But I don't think it's going to show up in

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Speaker 4: any databases that it was in that area at the

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Speaker 4: time that you know she went missing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me see the picture one more time. I

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Speaker 1: remember when my son John David was obsessed with everything

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Speaker 1: spy related and we all had to have walkie talkies,

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Speaker 1: and then we had to have a new set of

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Speaker 1: walkie talkies, and then somebody would lose when we get

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Speaker 1: a new set. How many people can be on a

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Speaker 1: walkie talkie, how many parties cher can join in on

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Speaker 1: one frequency?

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Speaker 4: Numerous Can you see families up on the ski slopes

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Speaker 4: using three or four different walkie talkies all on the

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Speaker 4: same frequency. They can keep in touch with each other

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Speaker 4: and meet at the bottom of a specific time. So

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Speaker 4: that's a good example of several people being on the

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Speaker 4: walkie talkie at the same time. But there's limited frequencies,

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Speaker 4: so a lot of times you get bleed over between

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Speaker 4: different frequencies that are close to each other. But you know,

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Speaker 4: you can put several different probably five or six different

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Speaker 4: people on the same frequency at the same time.

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Speaker 1: It's really hard for me to believe that we can

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Speaker 1: put a woman up in the in space circling the

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Speaker 1: moon on the moon, but we can't trace multiple walkie

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Speaker 1: talkies being used at the same time on the same

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Speaker 1: frequency at the scene of a kidnap. But your firm

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Speaker 1: and in your analysis that cannot be traced, Is that right, Iiker,

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Speaker 1: That's you're.

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Speaker 4: Going to put me in a position where I'm going

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Speaker 4: to say, I don't think so. But technology changes every day,

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Speaker 4: so can't they do it? Is there another way to

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Speaker 4: do it that I'm not thinking?

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Speaker 1: That's just what the team would love and what the

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Speaker 1: kidnapper loves. He is getting all of his information he

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Speaker 1: think he needs to know from Nanos.

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Speaker 8: He needs to shut his hold and stop because he's

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Speaker 8: not helping the investigation.

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Speaker 1: No, he's not. Day twenty three, where is Nancy Guthrie?

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Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie's mother still missing and the scene is chambolic?

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Speaker 1: A pizza guy, a pizza guy drives right up to

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Speaker 1: the house the crime scene and goes up to the

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Speaker 1: door to deliver pizza in the midst of this investigation.

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Speaker 1: Why is it still not blocked off? If and win

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Speaker 1: this case ever does go to trial, there's going to

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Speaker 1: be hell to pay h e doublel hell to pay

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Speaker 1: on ice skates because you've got a pool cleaning team

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Speaker 1: coming through, you have pizza delivery. You've got people sneaking

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Speaker 1: up to the front porch taking pictures of Nancy Guthrie's blood.

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Speaker 1: For Peape's sake, I would flip if someone was taking

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Speaker 1: pictures of my mom's blood on the front porch. You've

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Speaker 1: got the first team coming in, failing, you've got the

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Speaker 1: FBI finally joining in after being blocked by Nanos, they

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Speaker 1: come in. You know what this means, evidentiarily is that

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Speaker 1: every single person that went into that scene is going

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Speaker 1: to have to be ruled out of DNA over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: Nanos announces again. I just wait for the next bob

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Speaker 1: to drop that the DNA found in the home is mixed, mixed.

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Speaker 1: That is not the end of the world. DNA is

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Speaker 1: often mixed at multiple crime scenes. It's rare that you

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Speaker 1: find pristine DNA. For instance, let's just talk about a rape.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna have the victims DNA and the perpse DNA

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Speaker 1: that's mixed DNA. It's isolated. It's hard sometimes for lay

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Speaker 1: people and myself to understand, even though I've directed experts

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Speaker 1: on the stand, I've cross examined them on the stand,

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Speaker 1: I've been to the crime lab a million times, but

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Speaker 1: how they do it remains a mystery to me. They

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Speaker 1: look under a microscope and they can actually isolate the DNA.

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Speaker 1: Of course it's much more complicated than that, but they

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Speaker 1: can isolate the DNA strands. Then once they isolate it,

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Speaker 1: they begin to try and identify it. That is why

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Speaker 1: I have to pray to my Lord in Heaven that

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Speaker 1: Nano's sent the DNA inside the home to a DNA

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Speaker 1: expert that specializes in mixed, degraded old minuscule amounts of

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Speaker 1: DNA such as Christine Middleman and Authram labs the Brian

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Speaker 1: Coburger case with an incredible statistic. They crack the Rachel

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Speaker 1: Morn case when an illegal alien came into this country

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Speaker 1: running from a murder charge and I'll Salvador, he murdered

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Speaker 1: somebody there. He comes through La sex assaults a minor

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Speaker 1: in her own home with her family there, leaves caught

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Speaker 1: on camera, and then he makes his way to find

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Speaker 1: Rachel Morn where he horribly assaults her and murders her

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Speaker 1: on the Mond pawtrail that was cracked by Athram. Now

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Speaker 1: we need them on this. We know there is multiple DNA.

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Speaker 1: But before I go down the DNA avenue, we need

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Speaker 1: to finish each topic, don't you agree, cols Rude? Isn't

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Speaker 1: that the rule of direct and cross examination? You finish

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Speaker 1: one topic, pause so the jury can absorb what has

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Speaker 1: just happened, and then you move to the next topic.

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Speaker 1: If you have to circle back, you have to circle back.

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Speaker 1: But it's just good trial practice to finish one topic

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Speaker 1: before you go to the next topic.

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Speaker 6: Agree or disagree, and you know within that you also

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Speaker 6: want to incorporate the idea of primacy and recency, where

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Speaker 6: you put the most memorable facts up front and in

434
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 6: the back and kind of your your neutral the bad

435
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 6: facts in the middle, because jurors, like any human, has

436
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 6: a proclivity to remember what they hear first and what

437
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 6: they hear last. Now, you know, one thing I don't

438
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 6: like about the DNA that you're talking about is that

439
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 6: it was discovered apparently two or three weeks after the

440
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 6: initial observation of the crime scene. And this brings up,

441
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 6: you know, for a defense attorney to argue that the

442
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 6: DNA was planted there, that it was contaminated by somebody

443
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 6: at the scene of the crime, almost like the OJ

444
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 6: Simpson case and the bloody glove.

445
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: Okay, calls rude. I'm going to take you back to school.

446
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: We've already discussed that. This is what we came up with.

447
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying, and it would be a

448
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: wonderful avenue for the defense to trip down. But in

449
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: order to do that, they would have to have the

450
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: DNA of the suspect. Let's just use OJ Simpson as

451
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: the poster child for this. He argued that the victims

452
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: DNA was planning on his socks, and elsewhere, because he says,

453
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: which is not true. He had already been identified wrongfully

454
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: as the killer, the double killer of Nicole Brown and

455
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: Ron Goldman. So it was feasible. It was a lie,

456
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: but it was feasible. In this case. We don't have

457
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: a purp yet, we have not identified a suspect, so

458
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: it would be impossible to put their DNA at the

459
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: crime scene. Do you fall it?

460
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 6: I do, but I disagree. I know the reason why,

461
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 6: and that is if the FBI or law enforcement has

462
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 6: a target in mind, a defense attorney could argue that

463
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 6: they put that person's DNA at the crime scene in

464
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 6: order to, you know, frame that person. Now, I'm not

465
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 6: saying that this is going to be a winning argument,

466
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 6: but you know, when you go in front of a jury,

467
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 6: you never know what's going to stick or not stick.

468
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 6: And this just gives a defense attorney ammunition going forward

469
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 6: because they didn't discover the DNA in a timely fashion

470
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 6: once they got to the crime scene.

471
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,719
Speaker 1: Okay, I hear you. I agree and disagree. I agree

472
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: that because the DNA inside the home, the additional DNA

473
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: that we now are learning over the weekend was mixed,

474
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: was found two weeks later. Yeah, there will always be

475
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: an avenue for the defense to argue, but I think

476
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: the other argument it will prevail. But you know what,

477
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: if you get one jurrar that is receptive to that

478
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: kind of argument, you may be absolutely correct, especially your ours,

479
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 1: that question or are suspicious of police. Okay, before we

480
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: go further down the DNA rabbit hole, I want to

481
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: go back to the walkie talkie. I want to go

482
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: back to the other items found to be on his person,

483
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: and I want to look at what we believe to

484
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: be a Lulu Lemon marking. Okay, any of you out

485
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: there that has a high school girl or forget high school,

486
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: junior high at maybe even elementary, Lululemon is really expensive.

487
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: But a Lulu Lemon insignia, could I see that control room?

488
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: That's what we're talking about right now. So let's see

489
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: the Lulu Lemon and sing there you go. See that

490
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: right there? For those of you that don't have a

491
00:28:53,960 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: teen girl or just a girl period, Lululemon, that's there, insignia.

492
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: You didn't get that at Walmart, absolutely not. So we're

493
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: learning more and more now. That's one thing Nana's got

494
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: right over the weekend, he said, we're learning more and

495
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: more about the clothing the person is wearing the porch guy. Okay,

496
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: where is the Lula Lemon insignia.

497
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: It is on the left cuff of the suspect that

498
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: is facing the nest camera, left cuff on the outside,

499
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: as you can see right there.

500
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: I can't the outside. I mean, I hate to cross

501
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: examine my own witness, but the left cuff of what

502
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: are you talking about.

503
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: Is arm That's what I'm trying to explain.

504
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: I don't I'm not exactly sure what in particular that

505
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: is on. It appears to be on the left cuff

506
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 2: of the jacket that the suspect is wearing.

507
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: So the jacket and that is from Chillinoise on x

508
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: That's why I first saw it trolling through x Twitter

509
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: and I saw this that some eagle eye observer found. Okay,

510
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: once again apparently beating out Nanos. Find it really hard

511
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: to believe it beat out the FBI too, But let's

512
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: analyze it. Okay, Nanos said, over the weekend, we're getting

513
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: closer to identifying all of the defendants clothes, the porch

514
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: guy's clothes. Now, Scott Aiker, what can you tell me

515
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: about the FBI? Clothing Data Bank.

516
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 4: Well, they don't have a specific database on clothing, but

517
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 4: they have several systems to help them identify.

518
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 5: Clothing, and now they can use the Internet.

519
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 4: They can use what the databases they've had or built

520
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 4: over the years too on.

521
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 5: Specific older clothing.

522
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 4: To help them go to the manufacturers, figure out where

523
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 4: they're purchased, and help us track down who might be

524
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 4: wearing that clothing.

525
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not understanding. You had mentioned in the past

526
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: the FBI Clothing Data Bank. What is that? Is it

527
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: a conglomeration of all the research they've done in the past,

528
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: But what is the FBI Clothing Data Bank.

529
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 4: Well, I wouldn't call it a clothing data bank. I

530
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 4: would call it a database data bank database excuse me?

531
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 4: That has different items in it to deal with clothing

532
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 4: fabrics like carpets. So that's what we're looking at in

533
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 4: historically keeping track of what was available and kind of

534
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 4: logging that information. As you've seen, it's used not for clothing,

535
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 4: but also for carpet fibers. It's kind of a fiber

536
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 4: clothing slash database.

537
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: Got it? Got it? Okay? Will that help solve the mystery?

538
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: Will these items be pieced together and help us catch

539
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: the so called porch guy and find Nancy Guthrie. Google

540
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: is working fast and furious to recover even more video

541
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: possibly audio. Good thing that he disabled the door camp

542
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: because now we know it kept recording. Two more developments

543
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: in the last hours. A bloody glove has been found

544
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: about a mile from Nancy Guthrie's home and a backpack discarded.

545
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: Dave mac what.

546
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 3: Do you know, Nancy.

547
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,239
Speaker 2: Starting with the bloody glove when it was recovered, it

548
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 2: was seen by two citizens that were just out and

549
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: about in Tucson, about a mile.

550
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 3: From Nancy Guthrie's home.

551
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: They see the glove and they they don't touch it.

552
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 2: They call First, they called the FBI. FBI says, well,

553
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: don't know when we can get out there to get it.

554
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: Then they call the Sheriff's office. We'll be there in

555
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: a little while. Finally they call nine to one one.

556
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: That's when deputies then showed up about fifteen minutes later

557
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: for this bloody glove. Now moving on to the backpack,

558
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: this is a shocking turn of events, Nancy, I would

559
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: think that you have the power of the FBI, the

560
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: Sheriff's department, four hundred detectives, every area within two miles

561
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 2: would have been searched by now. But apparently there's an

562
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: area about a mile and a half from Nancy Guthrie's

563
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 2: home that has a homeless encampment and it's one of

564
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: these like a culvert that has like the big metal

565
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: tube where water can wash through it and it is

566
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: used by homeless people where they stay for the night.

567
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: Looking in the area, a citizen found a backpack. Now,

568
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: these citizens are gathering at a local store in the

569
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 2: parking lot and doing their own searches, trying to help,

570
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: and this woman was part of that search crew.

571
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 3: She's searching an area.

572
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 2: There were a couple of homeless people in this pipe

573
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: and she saw this discarded backpack. It's a black backpack

574
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: and she was able to pick it up with a stick.

575
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: She didn't touch it.

576
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 2: She then noted authorities who came out and picked up

577
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 2: the backpack. So those two recoveries being made by volunteers,

578
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: not by law enforcement, not from official searches, but from

579
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: unofficial searches, by people volunteering their time to try.

580
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: To help.

581
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 1: Crime stories. With Nancy Grace joining me now, special guest

582
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: John Bueller, former Detective Modesto PD California thirty one years

583
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: and homicide robbery thirty one years of expertise. He shot

584
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: to fame and the Scott Peterson investigation. John Bueller, thank

585
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: you for being with us. What do you make of

586
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: what we are learning now? First of all, I don't

587
00:34:58,400 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: want to spend a lot of time on it because

588
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: it doesn't advance the investigation at all. But what is

589
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: Nanos's problem with bringing in the Feds? Number one? And

590
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: late breaking developments are better than no developments at all.

591
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: And yes, it's easier, it's more simple when a police

592
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: law enforcement finds evidence, but that's not the way of

593
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: the world. Witnesses find evidence all the time. It's just

594
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: another hurdle to jump over when you're trying to introduce

595
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,919
Speaker 1: it at trial. So what do you make of all this? John?

596
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, good morning, and I'm always good to be

597
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 8: with you and your guests and everything like that. A

598
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 8: couple of things breaking it down into two segments with

599
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 8: the sheriff and the FBI. This is not totally uncommon.

600
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 8: It shouldn't happen at all, but it does happen once

601
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 8: in a while with management staff, egos and things like that,

602
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 8: where they want to maintain control of the case. But

603
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 8: the thing is is the scope of this case and

604
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 8: the size of it and the things that are going

605
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 8: on with it, it doesn't do anybody any good for

606
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 8: just the Sheriff's office to hold on. The FBI can't

607
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 8: really be brought in unless they're requested to come in

608
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 8: on a domestic police cooperation, which they do frequently. I

609
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 8: don't see any federal crime here, but the resources they

610
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 8: have are ones that you certainly want to use to

611
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 8: the best of your ability, without any accounting for who

612
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 8: gets credit or anything like that. I don't know really

613
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 8: too much about the sheriff haven't spent any time with them,

614
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 8: but there could be some rivalry.

615
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 7: There has been I've seen that in the past.

616
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 8: Generally the detectives and the agents can get past it

617
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 8: without any problem because they end up being a lot

618
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 8: of good friendships between them. Now when it comes to

619
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 8: the evidence that people are finding out there, one of

620
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 8: the things that there's an issue with this is when

621
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 8: it comes to three weeks since Nancy disappeared. Now you're

622
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 8: finding evidence that might not have been on the ground

623
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 8: two three weeks ago and might have been just discarded

624
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 8: maybe a day ago or.

625
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 7: Ten days ago.

626
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 8: So it's hard to categorize whether or not evidence or

627
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 8: you know, backpacks, gloves or anything like that that's found

628
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 8: by people that have a good heart and they want

629
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 8: to help hard to to necessarily lock that into the investigation,

630
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 8: but you can't ignore it because if you ignore evidence

631
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 8: like that, even if it's brought up by a neighbor

632
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 8: or some passerby, and you blow it off as an investigator,

633
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 8: there is where the reasonable doubt is created by the

634
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 8: defense with their fairly small hurdle to get over when

635
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 8: it comes to creating reasonable doubts. So when it comes

636
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 8: to this stuff with that one person that made the

637
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 8: nine to one one call, they have the deputies come

638
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 8: out right away and collect that stuff. Good call on

639
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 8: that part. Delay on these things, well, you know, I

640
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 8: can understand it. They're overworked and understaffed, but you certainly

641
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 8: don't want to leave that stuff laying around out there.

642
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad you defended them right there at the end

643
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: when you said overworked and understaffed. I mean, there are

644
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: a lot of agents federal agents and share us on this.

645
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: But apparently Dave Matt correct me if I'm wrong. The

646
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 1: last count was around fifty thousand tips, and now the

647
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: people manning the tip line are saying, please do not

648
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: call us with your opinion, your theories, your questions, and

649
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: please not your psychic premonitions. Don't But they still have

650
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: fifty thousand tips that we know of at the last count.

651
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: Isn't that true?

652
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: Dave mac Absolutely, you've got fifty thousand tips that are

653
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 2: being called in, and a lot of them you've got

654
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 2: to be worked. And as you said, you know they

655
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: are saying, please, we don't want your opinion or your

656
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 2: thoughts or whatever.

657
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 3: We just need the tip.

658
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 2: And so they're still they being law enforcement, still asking

659
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: for legitimate tips. But with the volume, come on, fifty

660
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 2: thousand tips, how are you going to get to that many.

661
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 2: It's a needle in a haystack or a needle in

662
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 2: a needlestack action.

663
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: So I hear what John Bueller saying, We're already getting

664
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: a lot of resistance online, like why didn't they show

665
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: up immediately to get the bloody glove? You know what,

666
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: I've got a feeling, a very strong belief that they're

667
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: going as fast as they can bloody glove. It's been

668
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: taken into evidence. A backpack found Dave mac brought up

669
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: the fact that they were homeless living near a culvert.

670
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 1: There is it from them, don't know, Dave Mack. How

671
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: far away from the home was the bloody glove?

672
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 3: About a mile mile and a half, not far.

673
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: It's amazing to me that we're still finding evidence on

674
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: the side of the road after all this time. And

675
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: it was disturbing, very disturbing as far as evidentiary wise,

676
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: that a lot of the many of the sixteen gloves

677
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: that were found belonged to searchers. Bueller, wouldn't you think

678
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: they would tell the searchers, don't take off your clothing

679
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: items and throw them on the ground. But they did,

680
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: And now we've got that whole line of defense culture.

681
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: We would have a field day with this. If a

682
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: glove is found to have evidence on it, he could

683
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: argue it was planted, just like all the other sixteen.

684
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: It means nothing a field ach. Why would people take

685
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: off their glove searching and throw them down on the ground.

686
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, you know, hard to get into the mind

687
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 8: of people that would do something like that. I know

688
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 8: there's a lot of people out there that have good

689
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 8: intentions and they have a good heart and everything like

690
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 8: that and they want to help, and kudos to them,

691
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 8: but there's also going to be that friend those people

692
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 8: that you know, either want to get involved in this

693
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 8: that don't have anything to do with it because it's

694
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 8: the biggest thing going on, or the second reason is

695
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 8: maybe they just want to screw with the investigators and

696
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 8: screw with the case.

697
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 7: The evil walks amongst us.

698
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 8: We see it all the time, and it's in the

699
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 8: news all the time, so you have that. The one

700
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 8: thing that is really interesting to me is I was

701
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 8: down there last week. You may know, and when you're

702
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 8: at Nancy's house or any of the houses in that neighborhood,

703
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 8: if you try to walk from your patio to the

704
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 8: neighbor's patio by going across the yards, you're going to

705
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 8: have a hard time doing it because there is cactus.

706
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 7: More cactus I've ever seen in my life.

707
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 8: Is you essentially have to go down your driveway to

708
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 8: the road, walk to your neighbor's place, go up their driveway,

709
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 8: and that so the thought of whoever these abductor or

710
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 8: abductors are that if they took Nancy and they went

711
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 8: out the backslider and then they went across to the

712
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 8: next yard, over or something like that. I find that

713
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 8: hard to believe for somebody who's probably got limited mobility,

714
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 8: is not in good health to have to think that

715
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 8: they're going to abduct her and walk her through that

716
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 8: area at night without illumination, with everything wanting to stick

717
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 8: into you when you walk through there.

718
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 7: It's a big stretch for me.

719
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 8: I think it's more likely they had a car nearby

720
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 8: out of camera range, maybe out of camera view because

721
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 8: a field of view wasn't wide enough, and they were

722
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 8: able to put her in there and then get out

723
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 8: of there. And that was one of the reasons that

724
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 8: I think. I'm certainly they got to be doing it,

725
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 8: because I'm not the only one to ever come up.

726
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 7: With this, but looking for.

727
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 8: Vehicles that come into the area that don't belong there,

728
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 8: as I think you guys should probably have talked before.

729
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 8: Most most cars new cars now, of course, are downloaded

730
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 8: through the little shark fit on the back to AT

731
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 8: and T and think AT and T as like ninety

732
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 8: percent of the downloads. Even if you don't enable it,

733
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 8: it's still there. And so if they could do a

734
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 8: search on that to see what cars belong in the neighborhood, Yeah,

735
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 8: you're going to get ones that come back registered to neighbors,

736
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 8: but foreign cars that don't belong there. Maybe a week

737
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 8: or two earlier, they're scout in the neighborhood, but certainly

738
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 8: on the day of the abduction, I'd be looking for that.

739
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 8: Those are things that just kind of random thoughts that

740
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 8: come out of my head. But as far as the

741
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 8: gloves and things like that, really difficult to link those

742
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 8: to our victim. Kind Of like when we were talking

743
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 8: here a while back about Lacey when things were found

744
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 8: with her when she came up on shore.

745
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 7: It's difficult to link to breathe that might not even

746
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 7: be connected to her as being involved in the crime.

747
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:39,919
Speaker 7: And same thing with the breathe that's being found out,

748
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 7: how do you connect that. Now it's going to back

749
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 7: up the lab quite a bit if you got to

750
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 7: check for DNA in every discarded glove.

751
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: The search for Nancy Guthrie goes on. Yes, the searchers

752
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: are weary, Yes law enforcement is trying everything. But now

753
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: is not the time for weakness. Now is the time

754
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: to dig in. Will the FBI be able to piece

755
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:07,439
Speaker 1: together the puzzle? Specifically, the clothing we now know comes

756
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 1: from different stores, Was it online, was it in person?

757
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: What kind of gun was used? Is there an accomplice?

758
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the

759
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free eight hundred

760
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: two two five five three two four, or if you

761
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:30,479
Speaker 1: wish to remain anonymous five two zero eight eight two

762
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: seven four sixty three. There is a two hundred and

763
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: two thousand dollars reward. We remember American Hero Trooper Michael Diego,

764
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: Florida Highway Patrol. Just twenty eight after serving four years,

765
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: he leaves behind a grieving fiancee. American Hero Trooper Michael Diego.

766
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: Thank you to our guest, but especially to you from

767
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: being with us tonight and continuing in the faith, we

768
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: will find Nancy Guthrie. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,