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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Aye and Samantha and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I Never told your protection of I Heart Radio. Today

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Speaker 1: we have an episode we wanted to rerun because we

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Speaker 1: recently talked about the d r C, the Democratic Republic

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Speaker 1: of Congo UM in in Activists around the World segment

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Speaker 1: and it made us remember a really good episode, fantastic

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Speaker 1: episode we did in the Before Times Before Times, Yes

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Speaker 1: UM about gender based violence and in that country, and

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Speaker 1: we had two interviews on there that were just fantastic,

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Speaker 1: and it was one of the last things we did

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Speaker 1: in the studio. But COVID was happening at that point

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Speaker 1: because we talked about it in there, UM, and we

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Speaker 1: also talked about um so off care and uh, we

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Speaker 1: should check we should check back in on them. I

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Speaker 1: would love to see see what they're doing now, where

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Speaker 1: they are now. But this was also a listener helped

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Speaker 1: us bring this all together. So we always love suggestions

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Speaker 1: like this about who we should be talking to, things

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Speaker 1: we should be talking about, So really appreciate it, UM,

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Speaker 1: and please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie

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Speaker 1: and Samantha and welcome to stuff I'll never told your

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. So today's episode I'm very

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Speaker 1: excited to present to you and it's actually, um, it

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Speaker 1: was a listener that got in touch with us and

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Speaker 1: facilitate this whole thing. And we'll get more into that

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Speaker 1: and in a second, but we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about sex and gender based violence or STVV in a

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Speaker 1: Democratic Republic of CONGO or the DRC and trigger warning

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Speaker 1: for a discussion of sex and inner based violence, sexual

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Speaker 1: assault and suicidality. And um, this one is so valuable

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Speaker 1: and worth listening to. But though the topics that we

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Speaker 1: discuss with our guests in this one are are very intense. Um,

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Speaker 1: So just keep in mind your mental health when choosing

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Speaker 1: to listen or not listen, are what time, because you

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Speaker 1: know sometimes you're just not a good place right now,

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Speaker 1: which you might be later. I just want to put

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Speaker 1: that out there, and just to put it out there,

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Speaker 1: I guess are really optimistic, yes, in such dire circumstances,

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Speaker 1: it seems, and they had put a lot of positivity

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Speaker 1: and what they're talking about as well. So it is

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Speaker 1: it is heavy, but at the same time, it is

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Speaker 1: still hopeful, Yes, absolutely, and it is not all bad

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Speaker 1: at all. And so okay, this was a suggestion from

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Speaker 1: a listener named Rebecca, who volunteers with a nonprofit organization,

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Speaker 1: Global Outreach Doctors, and she said, I'm going to use

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Speaker 1: her words now. This organization quote deploys volunteer medical doctors

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Speaker 1: and nurses, at mental health professionals and midwives and integrative

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Speaker 1: health professionals like trauma trained acupuncturists to high need, low

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Speaker 1: resource global regions affected by natural disasters, refugee crises, war zones,

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Speaker 1: and famine, such as the Democratic Republic of Congo, Kenya, Ethiopia, Bangladesh, Iraq, Nepal, Lesbos,

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Speaker 1: and the Syrian border. She went on, the organization just

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Speaker 1: completed an assessment mission dealing with a gender based violence

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Speaker 1: in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The d r C

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Speaker 1: has been labeled by several organizations, including the UN as

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Speaker 1: quote one of the worst places in the world to

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Speaker 1: be a woman. During focus groups. In the assessment of

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Speaker 1: current medical capabilities in the eastern part of the country,

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Speaker 1: the go docs assessment team found that mental health care

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Speaker 1: for victims of sexual and gender based violence in the

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Speaker 1: DRC is severely lacking. According to the WHO as often,

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Speaker 1: there were only points zero eight psychiatrists and zero point

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Speaker 1: five psychiatric nurses per one hundred thousand people in the

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Speaker 1: d r C are less than sixty five psychiatrists and

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Speaker 1: four hundred five psychiatric nurses in a country of seventy

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Speaker 1: eight million people. So Rebecca put us in touch with

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Speaker 1: Cocotaine the go docs VP of Planning and Logistics, and

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Speaker 1: Kim Spray bs N r n c N, who are

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Speaker 1: both on the assessment team. Before we get into that,

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Speaker 1: we want to do a brief rundown of the situation. There.

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Speaker 1: Officially established as a Belgian colony in nineteen o eight,

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Speaker 1: what was then the Republic of Congo gained independence in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty. The region has since experienced political and social

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Speaker 1: unrest and instability, violence and periods of civil war, and

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Speaker 1: millions have been displaced. Rape and sexual violence are frequently

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Speaker 1: employed against women and violence as a method of control, intimidation,

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Speaker 1: and humiliation, so for most survivors, justice isn't really an option.

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Speaker 1: The perpetrators ranged from soldiers to teachers to neighbors, and

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Speaker 1: partly because of that, most women and girls don't report it.

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Speaker 1: Those that do might be cast out from their homes

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Speaker 1: and families. And on one day in noven between the

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Speaker 1: twelve hundreds were raped and schools are frequent targets. According

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Speaker 1: to Congolese women's groups, things like an ineffective justice system,

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Speaker 1: poor governance, and women's inferior social position all play into

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Speaker 1: the sexual violence in the d r C, and while

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Speaker 1: it is under reported, the numbers we do have are disturbing.

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Speaker 1: Recent obtained statistics revealed that about eleven cases of sexual

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Speaker 1: violence are documented each month in various health zones, which

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Speaker 1: amounts to an average of thirty six victims a day,

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Speaker 1: and the most affected population is comprised of girls aged

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Speaker 1: between ten to seventeen, although ten percent of the victims

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Speaker 1: are less than ten years old. Congolese women constitute the

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Speaker 1: DRC population. Their visibility and contribution to food security for

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Speaker 1: the survival and running of the Congolese society is undeniable

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Speaker 1: and internationally recognized. However, studies and recent investigations show that

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Speaker 1: the position of Congolese women in several dominions of national

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Speaker 1: life remains low in comparison with men. Access of women

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Speaker 1: to decision making tables, as well as to national economical

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Speaker 1: resources and production factors remains very limited. The situation has

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Speaker 1: deteriorated in latter years with the negative effects of wars

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Speaker 1: in repetition to the current persistent insecurity. In fact, sixty

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Speaker 1: one point two percent of Congolese women live underneath the

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Speaker 1: poverty threshold against fifty one point three percent of men,

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Speaker 1: while forty four percent of women cannot attain economical timeliness.

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Speaker 1: And Furthermore, in the d r C, the situation of

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Speaker 1: gender based violence, particularly domestic violence on women and young girls,

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Speaker 1: is very worrying. Collected national data on various forms of

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Speaker 1: violence against women demonstrates how it strongly correlates with the

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Speaker 1: under development in conflict battered DRC. Gender based violence, including

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Speaker 1: sexual violence, has reached epidemic levels. In alone, close to

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Speaker 1: twenty six thousand, eight hundred cases were registered, but many

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Speaker 1: more have not been reported for fear of retaliation, because

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Speaker 1: of the limited monitoring and reporting systems in place, which

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Speaker 1: don't cover all affected areas in the country, and because

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Speaker 1: of security and access constraints. Humanitarian partners have been advocating

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Speaker 1: for more funds to be able to provide survivors with

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Speaker 1: post rape kits within seventy two hours in safe spaces

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Speaker 1: where they can get dedicated psychosocial support. In the twenty

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Speaker 1: nineteen Humanitarian Response Plan requires one point seven billion dollars

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Speaker 1: to reach nine million people. Of those, five point seven

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Speaker 1: million people require protection services. To date, the appeal remains

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Speaker 1: only twelve percent funded. And we can't forget the consequences

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Speaker 1: beyond the trauma of rape, like dropping out of school, pregnancy,

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Speaker 1: forced marriage, s t I S. Things like that. And

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Speaker 1: just so you know, early marriage is a common practice

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Speaker 1: and an estimated seventy four percent of women between fifteen

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Speaker 1: and nineteen years of age are married, and mostly in

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Speaker 1: the rural area. The legal minimum age of marriage is

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Speaker 1: fifteen for women in eighteen for men, and because of this,

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Speaker 1: in the more rural areas, girls as young as thirteen

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Speaker 1: are forced into marriages in order to provide for their families.

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Speaker 1: So clearly this is something we should be talking about.

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Speaker 1: But it's one sing reading the statistics and it's another

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Speaker 1: thing being on the ground talking to those who are impacted.

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Speaker 1: We talked with two amazing women, Coco Tang and Camplice Spray. Seriously,

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Speaker 1: there are resumes outstanding, astounding about what they experienced when

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Speaker 1: they went on an assessment mission around sex and gender

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Speaker 1: based bilence in the DRC. And we're going to get

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Speaker 1: right into that, but first we're gonna take a quick

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Speaker 1: break for word from our sponsor and we're back. Thank

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Speaker 1: you sponsor. So let's let our guests introduce themselves. My

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Speaker 1: name is Coco. I'm a paramedic. I'm currently the operations

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Speaker 1: director for Global Outreach Doctors. UM. I also worked with

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Speaker 1: a few other different NGOs. I'm usually practice over so

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Speaker 1: I'm just getting out of my Afghanistan contract, kind of

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Speaker 1: my way to Norway before I go back to the US,

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Speaker 1: and then I'll throw the ball over to Kim. Hey. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my name is Kim and I'm an emergency nurse by

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Speaker 1: training volunteer with Global Outreach Doctors and have a little

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Speaker 1: bit of experience working in West Africa as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you both were kind enough to send along your resumes

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Speaker 1: and they were super impressed. They were very impressed. It

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Speaker 1: made me feel very very Um. I'm not accomplished or something.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna leave at that. Um. But how did

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Speaker 1: you How did you get into this line of work?

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Speaker 1: So I first became an emergency medical technician when I

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Speaker 1: was in undergrad UM partly because both my very Asian,

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Speaker 1: very Chinese parents are m d pH ds and wanted

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Speaker 1: me to be a doctor. So I had to have

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Speaker 1: some kind of exposure to medicine, but also because being

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Speaker 1: e m T paid better than other minimum wage college jobs.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I did. And then when I got

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Speaker 1: my born, I'm full Bright scholarship and fellowships to the

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Speaker 1: Middle East. I was living in Jordan and then I

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Speaker 1: was doing research on this Yeraron refugees and the ISIS issue.

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Speaker 1: So I was working in this year and refugee camps,

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Speaker 1: and then someone heard that I have medical skills, so

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Speaker 1: I was like, do you want to volunteer for the

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Speaker 1: border metavacs? And I was like sure, And that's how

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Speaker 1: I kind of got started. And then I walked out

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Speaker 1: of UM sort of that experience, realizing that there are

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Speaker 1: these huge international crises that I can be a part of.

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Speaker 1: And then that winter the typhoon Hyan hit the Philippines UM,

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Speaker 1: so then I immediately signed up to volunteer there. And

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Speaker 1: then as soon as I graduated, I went to Sierra

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Speaker 1: Leone UM at the height of the Bowla crisis to

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Speaker 1: do this community outreach thing, and then it just kind

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Speaker 1: of snowballed from there. I think can can attest to

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Speaker 1: this too, like once you kind of meet someone in

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Speaker 1: this weird little community. You get networked and sucked in

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Speaker 1: and then before you know it, all these organizations are

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Speaker 1: asking if you are available for this mission or just

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Speaker 1: some or availability for this other vision and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Very true, yep. UM. So for me in terms of

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Speaker 1: global health, UM, I actually was finishing my Bachelors of

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Speaker 1: Nursing UM and was working full time as an e

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Speaker 1: our nurse, which is three twelve hour shifts a week,

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Speaker 1: and finishing my BS and I felt all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden I had all this free time on my hands

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Speaker 1: and was kind of bored and UM. So it was

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the fourteen A bowler crisis. And I

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Speaker 1: put my appetition out the U S A I D

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Speaker 1: and I was accepted by an m g O UM

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Speaker 1: and signed on for six weeks and ended up staying

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Speaker 1: for two years in mist Africa. UM. And so that's

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Speaker 1: kind of how this whole thing has started for me. UM.

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Speaker 1: And now I'm getting multiple master's degrees in the field

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Speaker 1: UM helping to continue. That's awesome. And UM. One of

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Speaker 1: the reasons we brought you on today that we wanted

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Speaker 1: to hear from you, is I one of your coworkers.

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Speaker 1: I guess Rebecca reached out to me and said, you

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Speaker 1: should really be talking about sex and gender based violence

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Speaker 1: in the d r C, which is something that both

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Speaker 1: of you have experienced with have seen firsthand. Um, could

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Speaker 1: you give us sort of a for for listeners, maybe

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Speaker 1: a one on one of what's going on there? Yes,

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Speaker 1: but sort of before we jump into that, I think

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Speaker 1: it'll be good to preface this with, you know, like

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Speaker 1: for us, we were just kind of there for like

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Speaker 1: a two week thing, like, this isn't our reality, and

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Speaker 1: we're not you know, like the experts on it by

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Speaker 1: any means. They're certainly a lot more people who are

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Speaker 1: more qualified to speak about it than us. Um, So

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Speaker 1: we're just kind of coming at it with the perspective of,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a two week medical mission volunteer type

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Speaker 1: of point of view, if that makes any sense, Right,

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Speaker 1: That's why you were sent there, right, sort of a

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Speaker 1: mission to to understand the scope of the problem. Perhaps, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So and Kim obviously feel for to jump in whenever

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Speaker 1: you like. The original sort of idea for the mission, um,

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Speaker 1: Like when this idea with birth was that we would

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Speaker 1: go in for some kind of healthcare assessment and see

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Speaker 1: where the gaps are UM in sort of like the

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Speaker 1: healthcare infrastructure in health Hebrew, and this was something that

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Speaker 1: Go Duck has done in other countries, so like earlier

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Speaker 1: the year we did something similar for Ethiopia UM, but

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Speaker 1: our local partner that we were working with UM it's

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Speaker 1: called SUFFCO and it's this French acronym that I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to try to pronounce because I'll mess it up,

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Speaker 1: but it basically works with like these local girls and

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Speaker 1: women and empowering them giving up skills sort of like

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Speaker 1: navigating the social landscape of being a woman in DRC.

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Speaker 1: So we kind of approached it with maybe like focusing

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Speaker 1: on STDV, which is like sexual gender based violence, but

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Speaker 1: obviously we didn't really know what we would find until

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Speaker 1: we actually got on the ground and started doing our assessment.

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Speaker 1: Can't we have anything to add? Yeah, no, I was

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Speaker 1: just gonna go further from that, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: once we arrived on the ground and realized UM, there

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Speaker 1: are quite a lot of people, as Poco said, that

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Speaker 1: are much more experienced in this and actually doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of work in UM SGBV UM, which is a

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Speaker 1: sexual gender based violence area, including Dr Mucuig who's there

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Speaker 1: in um Mukabo, who's won the Nobel Prize and he's

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Speaker 1: there doing all the like physical problems. So, um, we

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Speaker 1: realized that the mental health issues related to both the

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Speaker 1: SGBV and the ongoing war in um the d r

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Speaker 1: C where how global outreach doctors could add some support

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Speaker 1: to the area. Yeah, So I think one of the

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Speaker 1: key issues that like became like immediately urgently apparent was

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Speaker 1: that there was kind of like no psychosocial support for

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Speaker 1: all of these like women or just victims of STVV

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Speaker 1: in general. And I mean, God knowes it doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be female, but like I think the statistics are

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Speaker 1: right now something like point eight like psychologists for like

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Speaker 1: a hundred thousand people in Congo, And I think when

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Speaker 1: we were there, there was maybe like one psychologist that

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Speaker 1: was working in the entire South Keybrew area. So this

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Speaker 1: was like a completely kind of like foreign territory for

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Speaker 1: I think the healthcare providers there. Um. And even in

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Speaker 1: some of the interviews that we were doing, it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, what are you doing after your assault to

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Speaker 1: kind of help you get over this? And a lot

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Speaker 1: of the answers we got were just, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe some support groups or sometimes I can talk to

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Speaker 1: my friends, but it was just like a complete lack

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Speaker 1: of this particular support, even so much so that the

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Speaker 1: providers realize that this was an issue. People would show

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Speaker 1: up to the hospitals and our clinics complaining of kind

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Speaker 1: of generalized body aches or just your attention was another

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Speaker 1: big one. Yeah, And really, if you dialed down, you

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Speaker 1: found out that there was some trauma. Whether it was

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Speaker 1: s GBV or related to the war, UM doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 1: It was just a trauma. And really the the underlying

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Speaker 1: problem was the mental health issues that nobody had been

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Speaker 1: addressing there at all. In any way. Um, they don't

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Speaker 1: have the medicines available, they have very limited UM support.

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Speaker 1: The women don't really feel like they can even discuss

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Speaker 1: it with each other very much. UM and certainly across

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Speaker 1: gender lines, there's really no discussion on this problem. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When we were doing the research for this, they were

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Speaker 1: just so so so many stories, UM so many women

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Speaker 1: who were talking about it. And I do think that

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Speaker 1: it's something that UM, we don't think about a lot.

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Speaker 1: Is the mental trauma, like people who have experienced it do.

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Speaker 1: But if if you haven't, then it just doesn't occur

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Speaker 1: to people that this is a huge gap that that

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Speaker 1: would cause all these other things. And I think in

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Speaker 1: sort of that region in general, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: people kind of treated as like a tired or talked

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Speaker 1: out topic almost. You know, like it's known that DRC

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Speaker 1: is like the rage capital of the world just because

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Speaker 1: of it's like violent in recent history. Um. But also

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Speaker 1: like this issue has been eclipsed by a lot of

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Speaker 1: other issues, you know, like the M twenty three rebellion

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Speaker 1: or like the recently Bowl of crisis, Like this has

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Speaker 1: sort of kind of become like a bad burner topic. Um.

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Speaker 1: And even when I was coming off of the mission

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Speaker 1: and reaching out to some of my journalist friends to

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Speaker 1: see if there might be potential interest um on writing

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Speaker 1: about kind of like what's going on with these women

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Speaker 1: sort of like how years, decades after these conflicts, like

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Speaker 1: there has been no respite for them, and the response

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Speaker 1: has been, you know, there there will be no interest

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Speaker 1: for such an article. It's like a talked out issue. UM.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just like very sad that is

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Speaker 1: so disappointing that it's something can be talked out when

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Speaker 1: it's people's lives that we're talking and how they are

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Speaker 1: affected on a daily basis in such an awful dramatic

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Speaker 1: la that's really saddening. Yeah, and that does actually bring

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Speaker 1: me to your question. I was going to ask later,

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Speaker 1: but since it's a good segue, how what ways do

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Speaker 1: you think the media could improve when talking about this?

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Speaker 1: And um, what ways have they failed? Which might dovetail

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Speaker 1: into each other probably oh, um, like in Congo in

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Speaker 1: general or kind of like sexual violence as a broad

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Speaker 1: topic both honestly, um and cann't if you don't mine,

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Speaker 1: I'll start with sort of like a personal experience. So actually, um,

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Speaker 1: before this Congo mission, I was in Ethiopia on a

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Speaker 1: different mission, and I was actually sexually assaulted by Ethiopia

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Speaker 1: and local there um. And it's like still an ongoing

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Speaker 1: issue that I'm dealing with a lawyer in Ethiopia to

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Speaker 1: try and see this case through even though like no,

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Speaker 1: des might not be in Ethiopia, which is a complete nightmare.

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Speaker 1: And I had just like reaching out to some of

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Speaker 1: the local newspapers to see if there might be interest

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Speaker 1: in sort of like outing this guy that lives among

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Speaker 1: their midst and it is a well known sexual assaulter

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Speaker 1: and you know, like thief of like foreign tourists. Um,

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Speaker 1: I got like zero response. UM. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: just like it's not popular news or it's like talked

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Speaker 1: out news like I was saying before, like oh another

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Speaker 1: person got assaulted. What were they thinking? You know? Or

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Speaker 1: the other end of the spectrum is like who cares

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Speaker 1: about that? Like that's so like a non issue and

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Speaker 1: that I guess that's sort of like Ethiopian media. I

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Speaker 1: can't really make a broad comment about like US media

337
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,920
Speaker 1: with writing a book about it or guess how much

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00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 1: time three can What thoughts do you have? I don't know.

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00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,919
Speaker 1: I don't have really great thoughts on on that. UM

340
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,719
Speaker 1: too much really, Um, it is a huge topic and there's, um,

341
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,159
Speaker 1: you know, so many different parts of it right that

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Speaker 1: you know, people need to be feel free to address

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Speaker 1: their issues and recognize that there are issues. We also

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Speaker 1: need to recognize that it's a problem in the world. UM.

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Speaker 1: But UM, you know, our our DRC mission UM was

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Speaker 1: kind of more focusing on how can we get the

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Speaker 1: local providers to help recognize that this is a problem

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00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 1: and then treated as such. I do kind of just

349
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Speaker 1: want to add also, um, and this really hit hard

350
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Speaker 1: for me when I was asked this question so one

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Speaker 1: of the local women, I can't remember which one of

352
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Speaker 1: us did her interview, um, but she was asking like,

353
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Speaker 1: so are you she she you don't like recounted for us,

354
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Speaker 1: like her probably her worst moment in her life, like

355
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Speaker 1: talking about her sexual assault. I think she was getting

356
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Speaker 1: raped or something. Um. And then she was like, so

357
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Speaker 1: are you going to do something? Like are you going

358
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Speaker 1: to help me with it? And you know, we had

359
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 1: to give her a very painful answer of like no,

360
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 1: we're here for the assessment, Like all we can do

361
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Speaker 1: right now is collect your story. And it kind of

362
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 1: like reminds me of the times that, like I've worked

363
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 1: in other refugee camps or in like vulnerable populations where

364
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: my job wasn't not as a journalist, but even as

365
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,640
Speaker 1: like a humanitarian worker, My job was to collect their

366
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Speaker 1: stories m or like turn them into data and numbers.

367
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Speaker 1: And you know, in the same vein that journalists just

368
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 1: turned them into like names and words on a page,

369
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Speaker 1: but for them that's like their lives, like they're telling

370
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Speaker 1: you their worst moments and then not knowing if they'll

371
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Speaker 1: ever kind of see any recourse from the information they

372
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Speaker 1: give you, and even if it does, you know it

373
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Speaker 1: could take years, months, what have you. And I just

374
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Speaker 1: think that's like a very painful thing for them, right, Yeah, absolutely,

375
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Speaker 1: And um, I know a lot of cases go unreported

376
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Speaker 1: because there is a fear of of retaliation or just

377
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: almost like well it's going to be painful and I

378
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 1: don't know what else get out of it. Yeah, that's

379
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: very true. Um. And but the other part of this

380
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,640
Speaker 1: is the problem with um, you know, Western medical missions

381
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: kind of issue of you know, like we show up

382
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: and then you know, the white doctors are there, and

383
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: everybody wants to get seen. And because we're going to

384
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: solve the day, and that's not the way that this

385
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: is gonna the world is going to get better. The

386
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,360
Speaker 1: world is going to get better by m empowering locals

387
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,479
Speaker 1: to do the work, the same work, because we are

388
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: not the you know, all powerful people. Um, We're just

389
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Speaker 1: the same as everybody else, right. And I just I

390
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,360
Speaker 1: just want to add like one last point, like one,

391
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 1: I just like recalled and instance, when I was working,

392
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: uh like a refugee camp in Jordan's and this group

393
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: of I forget which newspaper they're working from, they wanted

394
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: to come in and interview the children and they were

395
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 1: working on like a specific topic, Like their question was

396
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: like what do you dream about? And like in sort

397
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: of organizing this and watching how the children failed to

398
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: comprehend this question because they were just like, what do

399
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: you mean what we dream about? Like we dream about

400
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: our old homes, like being at home, like we left

401
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: our houses like um. And I think that's kind of

402
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: where maybe Western media fails a little bit, is like

403
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: taking these questions that we think our audiences are would

404
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 1: be interested in, but are completely out of context for

405
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: the population that they're trying to interview. And I don't

406
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 1: know if I'm like articulating this correctly, but like that

407
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: question was like so out in left field for those refugees,

408
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: like they were like, I don't even understand what you're asking.

409
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: But for us audiences, like a Western audiences, like oh,

410
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 1: what do you dream about? It's like such a high consciousness,

411
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: like surreal topic that for them, you know, they can't

412
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: even get food or water, Like what does it matter

413
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: what they dream about? Yeah? I think that's perfect cook of. Yeah, well,

414
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: now you have any two questions I need to ask?

415
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 1: You're putting so much out here. Um. The first question

416
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: I did, I want to ask how many. Did you

417
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 1: have a lot of women that were willing to come forward? Um?

418
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: Wasn't easy to obtain that information because obviously they probably

419
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 1: all interact with again, groups of people that come, they're

420
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: trying to get an assess in or maybe try to

421
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: help or not. How often would you have pushed back

422
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: and how often would you have like a flood of

423
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: people coming in, Yes, I want to talk, I want

424
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 1: you to know what's happening. I think we had mostly

425
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: like floods of people who are willing to talk to us.

426
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: But I think it was more under the assumption that

427
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: we were there to do something or like fix it. Yeah, no,

428
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: I agree, and um, working with our partners Safeco, UM,

429
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 1: they kind of, um you know, said hey, they're coming

430
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: and they want to talk to you. And so we

431
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: would have you know, hundreds of people there in the morning,

432
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: UM that wanted to talk to us, and we're willing.

433
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: But again the problem was that we really could do

434
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: very very little for them, and some of them like

435
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: walked from nearby villages like just to be seen. Um.

436
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: And I mean we we did whole you know, like

437
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: clinical hours where like we did clinical work, like we

438
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: asked them what their ailments were and then we you know,

439
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: had sent them to our little traveling pharmacy. Um. But

440
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: you know, by and large for like this huge, large

441
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: a myth of an issue of like s GBV, Like

442
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: we really could only just talk to them, right, And

443
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: that was really sad. Yeah, and that could be especially

444
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: if you're in the medical field and you want to

445
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: fix things as well. Um. And then the other part

446
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: was as you were talking about people coming in and

447
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: this Western nice idea one of the big issues that

448
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: I've had for so long when it comes to mission

449
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: trips and we know Western civilizations saying we're gonna go

450
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: fix things. Guy, I want to go to Africa. The

451
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: whole white savior complex. How often have you been running

452
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: into that? And can you kind of speak on the

453
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: damages that can do constantly? And I think so, like

454
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,239
Speaker 1: it's really sexy. I think for organizations to be like, oh,

455
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 1: we're gonna go for two weeks and like do this thing,

456
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: and these are our benchmarks, key performance indicators, how many

457
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 1: people serve, how you know, how much drug supplies we delivered.

458
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: But like there's very rarely kind of a plan for

459
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: sustainability because you know, that's a long term investment. It

460
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: requires money, it requires like investments and energy, like supplies

461
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: and stuff. It could be like years, whatever. And I

462
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: think a lot of organizations just don't have the capability

463
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: for that type of long term vision. And it's not

464
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: necessarily their fault, right Like, you know, we're volunteer organizations,

465
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,479
Speaker 1: were by nature limited in the scope and our funding.

466
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: I think lacking this makes this kind of industry sort

467
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: of very myopic in its application, because when we arrived

468
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: in some of these places, they were like, oh, so

469
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: you brought us drugs, right, Like, you're here to see

470
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: our patients, so our doctors don't have to work for

471
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,959
Speaker 1: the days that you're here, Like they really just expect

472
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: you to do this work for them and then they'll

473
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: just go back to life as normal, and then another

474
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: group will come do that work and then they'll go

475
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: back to life as normal. Yeah. No, I completely agree

476
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: with that on all sides, right um, Because you know,

477
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: as the Westerners going, you know, people think, oh I'm

478
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna go help for two weeks, um, but

479
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: that's really just barely aband aid, right um. And really

480
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: what needs to happen is a longer term solution. I

481
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: mean and of course, there are emergency situations two weeks

482
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: is perfect, right, like a typhoon or a hurricane or

483
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: an earthquake. You know that that's no problem. You can

484
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: do that acute care. But for the most part, you

485
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: need longer term care. And you know that's why Global

486
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,959
Speaker 1: Outreach Doctors has been able to UM, you know, connect

487
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: with these thirty plus you know psych advisors from the

488
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: United States to start doing some education UM in the

489
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: Congo with the providers that have joined us as part

490
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: of our DRC group. UM. So that helps. So I think,

491
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: like what makes sort of our outlook on this Congo

492
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: mission a little bit unique is like we are trying

493
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: to implement like a much longer term plan UM and

494
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: not necessarily in terms of like sending teams over and

495
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: over again, but sort of like empowering the like the

496
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: local providers to take charge and ownership of like their

497
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: own health care system, like we've with like suffrago UM

498
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: and like our local partners have to help, you know,

499
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: nominate these community champions who could potentially apply this clinical

500
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: psychology training to their own communities and like hold workshops

501
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: for their own people instead of you know, having these

502
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: muzbu doctors come in and speak to them and then

503
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: leave for two weeks. Um. And I think sort of

504
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: if this idea could be more widely adopted by other organizations, UM,

505
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: it could really like change the face of humanitarian work. Yeah, definitely.

506
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: And UM, I mean I remember one example for me was, UM,

507
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: we were inundated with hundreds of people wanting to be seen,

508
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: and I was kind of doing my ear nurse triage

509
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: and there was one lady who was completely concerned about

510
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: UM and said, you know, she has to come next.

511
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: She just was not acting right in any way. And

512
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,239
Speaker 1: I didn't really know what was going on in terms of, oh,

513
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: this was the one that fainted in the middle of

514
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: the line. No, no, no, not that lady, and this

515
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: is actually stories. Yeah. But and so I said, you know,

516
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: we have to see her next, and and all the

517
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: locals just came up to me and said, oh, no, no,

518
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,959
Speaker 1: don't worry about her. She's just crazy, you know. And UM,

519
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: they kept saying, okay, yeah, she's crazy. UM, and we

520
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: I finally got I pulled her in next to be seen, right,

521
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: So she kind of slipped ahead in the line because

522
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: she definitely looked the sickest in the line. Um. And

523
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: as an ear nurse, that's what I'm used to doing,

524
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: is peaking the worst and um, you know, and and

525
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: it became quite obvious that she was schizophrenic. Um and

526
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: you know, I was having some major problems and we

527
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: don't know why because she's just not able to communicate

528
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: in that way at all at that point. Um. But

529
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: but more than getting her any help, it was the

530
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: other Congolese realizing that, like, she was a real person

531
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: and did have real problems. It wasn't just oh, she's

532
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: crazy and we can leave her there, um, and we

533
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: all get to get seen because you know, we have, um,

534
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: some other issues that you know, those are the major

535
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: issues that need to get dealt with, right. But I

536
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: mean you think about it in sort of their point

537
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: of view, like how often does a person get dismissed

538
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: for just like being a little off or like crazy,

539
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: But it's actually like maybe having like PTSD or like

540
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: some really serious underlying medical issue that they just you know,

541
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: get brushed off as like oh, she's crazy, don't worry

542
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: about her or whatever. Right. Yeah. One of the first

543
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: episodes we did together, we did a mini series on trauma.

544
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: When we first started. UM, so we've we've talked about

545
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: those kind of health those negative health outcomes that can

546
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: be associated with it. A lot of the stories I

547
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: read just seeing like things like STI is in pregnancy,

548
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: all these just things, Um, that's sort of yeah, yeah,

549
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,239
Speaker 1: I mean women used to get burned for existing pretty much, right.

550
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: I Mean that was definitely one of our big conversations.

551
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: And that's. Um. I've been in social work before this world.

552
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: And one of the things that Georgia and the US

553
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: has finally started talking about is trauma based and evidence

554
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: based therapy instead of just diagnosing with random things here

555
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: and there and saying, oh, that's just their behavior, understanding

556
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,479
Speaker 1: a majority of their diagnosis and their behavior is due

557
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: to trauma, and knowing that that's only starting now for

558
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: the U. S can't imagine what that looks like for

559
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: the rest of the world. Kim, do you remember that

560
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: one patient, She was like an elderly lady and she

561
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: came to us like genuinely fearing for her life because

562
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: she was like ostracized by her village because some kind

563
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: of like sexual trauma happened to her. And then I

564
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: think she had a family member dies within her village.

565
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: Like I thought she was a witch or something, and

566
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: then she was like ostracized in her tent, like people

567
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: don't approach her, um, Like sometimes they threw stones her,

568
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: like do you remember that one? And she was like

569
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: begging us, like please help us, like I can't stay

570
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: here and I'm gonna die, like they're gonna kill me.

571
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: Remember that? And I think that that's I mean, that

572
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: wasn't the only time I heard that. You know, after

573
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: some sexual based violence happens, that then you're considered you know,

574
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: um ostracized, untouchable. I mean even so much so that

575
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: the children of rape cannot go to the normal schools

576
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: you know have to um, you know, are are also ostracized.

577
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a continual process. Yeah, And so

578
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: we had we had this one like super young teenage girl.

579
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: Um she was getting raped and then to the point

580
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: that she had like a rectal anal fistula um. And

581
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: she like did not speak for I think two years,

582
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: and even at like our interview, like she refused to

583
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: say anything to us, like she I think her mother

584
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: or her aunt or something like talked for her and

585
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: recounted her experience, and she was just like catatonic, like

586
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: zero aspect UM. Yeah, it was. It was really depressing. Yes, yes,

587
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: I think that we're going to backtrack a little bit

588
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: just to get all the information. But can you because

589
00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: you've said it a few times and obviously it was

590
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: we were with the can you explain Global Outreach Doctors

591
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: and what it doesn't what its mission is? Sure, so

592
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: Global Outreach Doctors we are a nonprofit medical organization. UM.

593
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: We send volunteer teams of healthcare providers to you know,

594
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: like high needs, low resource areas parts of the world.

595
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: And our missions range from like healthcare augmentation to like

596
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: various responses to like assessments. Really so I can name

597
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: a few like recent ones. Obviously this Congo one, it

598
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: was a healthcare assessment. UM. We did another assessment in

599
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: the Gonder Mountain region in Ethiopia last year. UM we

600
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: also went on like supplied volunteers for there was a U. S.

601
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: Southcom Navy trip in and around the Caribbean and South

602
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: America sort of to help out with the Venezulan refugee

603
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: crisis and all the IDPs and refugees that were displaced

604
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: from that conflict. UM we've also like sent people to

605
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: a most whole in two thousand seven during the anti

606
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: isis offensive. Currently we're like working on a project to

607
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: support the Dangai fever outbreak and like the Marshall Islands.

608
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: So I mean there's a variety of missions that were

609
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: involved in and they're not always sort of like in

610
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: the same sphere um, but I think in general we're

611
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: sort of moving more towards like this long term sustainable

612
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: development like local empowerment type, whereas I think a lot

613
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: of our like pure organizations sort of are more into

614
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: like the quick in, quick out, like high speed, low

615
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: drag type of like two weeks patch, patch, patch, and

616
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: then get out type missions. And if you're interested in

617
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: more information, obviously we have a website shameless plug. It's

618
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: www dot Global Outreach Doctors dot org. Awesome normal spellings.

619
00:34:50,440 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: That's great, exactly what we need. Okay, So going back

620
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: to to this mission in the DRC, could you get

621
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: what was kind of a general just day like there

622
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: and then what data did you end up with if

623
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: you can have is there any like analysis or like

624
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: from what age to what age? How many women did

625
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: you see? Are people I can talk a little bit

626
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: more about like the day to day stuff because I

627
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: managed the legistics and then I'll kick it over to

628
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: Kim to talk about the data stuff because she was

629
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 1: definitely more involved with that part. Um. I wouldn't say

630
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: that we had any day in like the two weeks

631
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: in some extra days mission that were the same. Like

632
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 1: every day was either moving from one place to another,

633
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: We're seeing patients at this one place, We're getting ready

634
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: to go to another place. At one point, like we

635
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: had questions about our security because the area we were

636
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: going into, you know, there's been known rebel activity and

637
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: violence in that area. Um So, then we had to

638
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: take a flight in. But then it had to be

639
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 1: like a minuscal helicopter because like the charter flight cancel

640
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: so that our team got split. Um So, then like

641
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: the people who had flights out of Rwanda really early

642
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: went on the un helicopter, but the rest of us

643
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: were like stuck in this enemy surrounded mountain village for

644
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: like a few days with internet. I don't know if

645
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: you've ever seen like this movie called like the Tears

646
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 1: of the Sun, but one of my security contractor friends,

647
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: when I told him about it, he was like, Cocoa,

648
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 1: that's literally the plot. Like if you were there for

649
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: a few more days, and I didn't hear from you

650
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: like we would have sent several bearded men to go

651
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: rescue you guys. I mean, obviously it didn't come to that. Um.

652
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: I mean it was a beautiful place to be stranded

653
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: and like the locals treated us like family and it

654
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: was amazing every day dealing with some aspect of the

655
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: logistics of being in that part of the world. Early. Yeah,

656
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: So then UM, talking about the data, So, UM, we

657
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: did assessments in all the different hospitals are clean X

658
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: that we went to on both depression and mental health. UM.

659
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: So the the scoring systems we used for the pH

660
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: Q two UM in PHQ nine, which are both regularly

661
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: used in the United States for depression, and we also

662
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: use something called the Refugee Health Screening fifteen UM, which

663
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: has obviously been studied only for refugees and or traumatized patients.

664
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: So people would come to us and we would say,

665
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: you know, are you a refugee or do you have

666
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: some serious trauma? And if they said yes, then we

667
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: would use that RHS fifteen. If they said no, then

668
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: we would just use the PHQ two. And if the

669
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: PHQ two is positive, then you move on to the

670
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: PHQ nine. So obviously to add that like refugee is

671
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: a broad term, also like including I d p s

672
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: because a lot of these internally, these people you know,

673
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: moved around DRC because of like nearby violence and stuff

674
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, that's very sorry, continues that thinks. Um so,

675
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: but most people said yes to the been I they're

676
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: a refugee, I d P or had some severe trauma,

677
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: and so we would score them on the um RHS

678
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: fifteen and UM a hundred percent of the people that

679
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: we use that on scored positive for severe trauma. And

680
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: then the PhD. You were like at one point you

681
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: like ask you got to question for and that just

682
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 1: like didn't bother asking the rest of the question because

683
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: you were like, they're positive, let's move on. Yeah, very crue. Yeah,

684
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: we were so overwhelmed and so busy with so many

685
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: people that I didn't we didn't always get to every

686
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: single question because once somebody was positive had a positive

687
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: score for it, then I was just like, they're positive.

688
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: I don't care for the rest of the questions, and

689
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 1: we just need to get them to some assistance if

690
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: we can. UM And really, again, this was more about

691
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: teaching the local providers, UM, that these are important questions

692
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: to ask on every single patient because you don't know

693
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: if the lady who shows up with belly paine is

694
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: really there because she has um some mental health issue um,

695
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: rather than just you know, giving her some medicine for

696
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 1: her supposed belly paint and sending her on her way. UM.

697
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: So that was I think the big learning experience. And

698
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: for me, sitting with local nurses and teaching them how

699
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: to ask these questions appropriately and realizing why it was

700
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: important was really the highlight. You know, getting to know

701
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: these nurses and getting them to understand that this is

702
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: important to their community and how they can help their community. Yeah.

703
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: And I think so we also did like gendered focus

704
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: groups um. And obviously we had larger groups of women

705
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: who are involved with these focused groups and like the

706
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 1: men's groups, but like even being able to explain to them,

707
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: like you know, in like in a safe like crowd setting,

708
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: that like, not all of your symptoms are because you're sick,

709
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 1: like you're you could be like semantic sizing your psychological issues.

710
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that a lot of

711
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: them just didn't know that that was a thing. So

712
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, you might not have headaches because you have

713
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: a brain tumor or something. You could be having headaches

714
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: just because you have psychological trauma and it's manifesting as

715
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: this physical issue. You right, what was the age range

716
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: of people you saw right right wide? Yeah, I mean,

717
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, I would say it was the entire range.

718
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: I mean in terms of STBV. Obviously, the babies weren't,

719
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: you know, nobody mentioned that, although I think we had

720
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: four year olds or stuff with STBV, but we just

721
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: certainly saw you know, babies with malnutrition and malaria and

722
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: other things. But then all the way to as old

723
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: as as possible, I mean, like definitely post menopausal age um.

724
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: And like they you know, whatever age range, like they

725
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: had legit questions, Like there were elderly ladies who asked

726
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: us questions about like what to do about certain sexual situations,

727
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: like just as like the young ones do um, and

728
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 1: you know, mothers who were asking like what should I

729
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: do for my six year old daughter who was a

730
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: getting rape? Like so and and one lady so like,

731
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: she didn't ask this to me, she asked my colleague.

732
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: So like her question was so like, well, can you

733
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: what advice can you give us you know, as a

734
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: Congolese woman in this environment, like what can I do?

735
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: And so our colleague answered this question and I wasn't there,

736
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: but maybe you were like she handled it very well,

737
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 1: because I definitely I would not have had any idea

738
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: what to say. Um, but she was like, you know,

739
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: I know your situation looks really bleak, but it's important

740
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: to have this kind of solidarity, feel open with each

741
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: other and support each other. I can't like replicate her

742
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: super eloquent answer, but it was just like a lot

743
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: of those types of questions that made you turn your

744
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: head a little bit and do a double take on yourself.

745
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: Hm hm yeah. And I sort of going off of that,

746
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: I m a lot of news media called the DRC,

747
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: like you know, the rap capital of the world or

748
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: the most dangerous place for a woman, And I did

749
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: read a lot of articles from written by Congolese women.

750
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 1: You were saying like, yes, the situation is really bad,

751
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: but there's also a lot of sisterhood and solidarity and

752
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: strength here and resilience. Do you have one of like

753
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: the enlightening, eye opening things I think we encounter was

754
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: how many kind of like just informal women's support groups

755
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: there were right, because like one of the questions we

756
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: asked on these like interviews was like, um, so, what

757
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: are some activities that you do to kind of like

758
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: seek support? And I think most of them said that

759
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: there's some kind of like a local community like women's

760
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 1: group that they go to. But obviously the issue is

761
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: like that if there was a leader for these groups

762
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: you or they're not really trained in clinical psychology, they

763
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: might not be giving out appropriate advice. But I mean

764
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 1: there was like what I felt was like this hunger

765
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: for like something better or like something to improve the

766
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: current situation with within this like gender meeting group, support

767
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,919
Speaker 1: group thing. Would you agree with him? Yeah, definitely, Um yeah,

768
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: there seemed to be a lot um you know, and

769
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: I don't think that there has to be some really

770
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: specific training. I think, you know, just sometimes you know,

771
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: sitting down and and listening to each other is all

772
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: that's really needed, and and having that ability to say, hey,

773
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: I have had these problems. But the problem with that

774
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: in the congo, what I was told was that then

775
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: you know, then you become a victim for you know,

776
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: more violence because you have ostracized yourself of you know,

777
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: talk with other women sort of thing. So that's actually

778
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: I can't remember which religion was, but like someone was

779
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: telling us how, um, she was being targeted because she

780
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: was like championing this effort and then that was kind

781
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: of like a target on her back because she was

782
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: sort of sticking her neck out on behalf of these

783
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: other women. Right. Well, we even had that one woman

784
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: who had been just attacked and michett ied um uh

785
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: just you know, in the last week because she was

786
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: a champion for it. Yeah. Um. But the other part

787
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: of that I also want to mention is, I mean, although,

788
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 1: you know, going back to the Western media kind of question, is,

789
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: although it's important to discuss all these things and realize

790
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: that this is happening in the world, I think it's

791
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: also important to discuss how beautiful and great the Congo is.

792
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: I loved it there. Um. Recently I was asked where

793
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: is my favorite place in the world, and I said

794
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: bukabu um which is in South Kivu, Congo. Um. I

795
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 1: really really enjoyed the country. It was beautiful, that people

796
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: were amazing, and so you know, I think we need

797
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: to also realize that good things happen in these places. Um.

798
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: It's just not all the trauma and badness, and I

799
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,240
Speaker 1: think some of the stuff is forgotten. Yeah. So actually

800
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: two things I want to add to that where I

801
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: think back to your question about where media fails. I

802
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 1: think we're so eager to highlight all of these like

803
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 1: negative problems and paint this like shocking picture almost kind

804
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: of you know, like people stopping on the side of

805
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: the road to stare at this grotesque accident. But like,

806
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: I don't think we do enough to sort of highlight

807
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: all these amazing initiatives that are coming out of this place,

808
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: like telling stories of these champions who are like willingly

809
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 1: making themselves a target in order to stand up for

810
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: their sisters, or you know, these amazing women in these

811
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: communities who are empowering like the local girls to do

812
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: this thing, or you know, like being the person that

813
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: they can go to, or like providing housing and like

814
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: a safe place for other women to speak up. I

815
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: don't think we do enough to highlight those stories. And

816
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: then the second thing is I'm going to make a

817
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: shameless plug for tourism because I got to go to

818
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: Arunga Park um the companies Viega Park and also as

819
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: part of the Arunga Park trip, I got to hike

820
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: Narago Volcano, which is the largest persistent lava lake volcano

821
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 1: in the world. Um and I have been to a

822
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: lot of African countries and I have never experienced amazing

823
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: hospitality at the level that I experienced it when I

824
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: did my Arunga trip. Like the tourism industry there is

825
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: really really starving for tourists and for obvious reasons, you know,

826
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,479
Speaker 1: the violence, like the people people. They know that people

827
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: don't want to go there. So when they have tourists

828
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: who you know, are I guess crazy, you're brave enough

829
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: to visit there, they're like they express their gratitude in

830
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: such a genuine, almost heartbreaking way that like I don't know,

831
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: like I bought a stuffed guerrilla even though I like

832
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 1: rarely buy souvenirs, I bought the stuff guerrilla just because

833
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: it supports like the local community there, because like the

834
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: women there, they make it and they you know, the

835
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: money goes back to the rangers who protect the guerrillas

836
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: and stuff. So it's you know, your audience, whoever is listening, Like,

837
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: visit Congo. It's perfectly safe. You will have an amazing trip,

838
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: and the hospitality there is amazing, and you will not

839
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: regret it. Like literally I was within feet distance of

840
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: the guerrillas and it was like a spectacular experience. And sorry,

841
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: I forgot that it is much cheaper to do this

842
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 1: like guerrilla trek uh in Congo than Rwanda, for example.

843
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: So like my entire four day itinerary for the Ruina

844
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: Park and the New York and Volcano costs maybe, whereas

845
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 1: in Rwanda just the permit, the trekking permit itself costs,

846
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: not including accommodations all that. So it is very like

847
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: cost like your value for money, you definitely get more

848
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: bang for your buck if you do this in Congo.

849
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: All right, there we go side notes, So yeah, I

850
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: love this. We got too shameless plugs. And then off

851
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: of that, what else can listeners do UM if they're

852
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 1: interested in in helping out in any way supporting anyway

853
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: UM the situation and dear c well, I mean certainly

854
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: go docs always needs UM support, so both UM tears

855
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: and from so financial support. So you're welcome to visit

856
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: our website again, will Lota doctors dot org UM doesn't

857
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be It doesn't have to be us,

858
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, like if you're passionate about a particular issue

859
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: like there, I'm sure there's no shortage organizations that are

860
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: working on that issue. UM. I would say, like, do

861
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: your research. I always try to support like sort of

862
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: more grassroots local organizations than like large international ones like

863
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: I c r C or Red Cross, just because like

864
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 1: I want my money to go where I wanted to go,

865
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: as opposed to like overhead UM. And if you can

866
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: find if you do your research in a particular area

867
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: or issue that you're interested in, you find an organization

868
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: that works, and you know, I would just reach out

869
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: to them. Maybe you are you maybe you run a

870
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: podcast that could highlight some of these issues. If you

871
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: have deep pockets, you know, like you know, money goes

872
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: a long way in parts of the world like that.

873
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: And also if you have skills and will like to volunteer,

874
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: you know, like go Dogs and some of the other

875
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: organizations that work with We're aways looking for like volunteers

876
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: who can come on and join us on these trips. UM.

877
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: So there's there's definitely an abundance of ways to get involved. Yeah,

878
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: And it's just important to realize what's important to you

879
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: and how you want to use your time and resources

880
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: UM In terms of you know, do you want to

881
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: work on saving grillas to you know, want that help

882
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: with STBV. I mean there's thousands and thousands of different

883
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: groups out there who each help in their own little

884
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: teeny way. Yeah. And also I think just like keeping

885
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: the conversation alive goes a long way too. As a society.

886
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: There are certain topics that we kind of shy away

887
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 1: from talking about just because it makes people uncomfortable or whatever.

888
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: Sometimes when I mentioned instances of like sexual assault that

889
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: happened to me, like a lot of my guy friends

890
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: are like, what that happens? And it's like, yes, I'm

891
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: a woman, um, but like, you know, keeping that topic alive,

892
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: like bringing awareness to it, not just as people who

893
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: live in the West, but like, you know, did you

894
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: know that in Congo blah blah blah happens or in

895
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: this other part of the world blah blah blah happens.

896
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, what are we doing about it? You know,

897
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: if if you keep it in someone's you know, like

898
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: the back of someone's mind, like and they happen to

899
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: be in a position where they can do something like

900
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: influence policy in any way, you really never know when

901
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: some of these topics and connections may come in handy. Yeah,

902
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: I mean, and another part that reminded me is um

903
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: eve in slur with the vagina monologues came out of

904
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: the drc UM. That's where she originally worked with Dr mccoige. So,

905
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: I mean even that has standard the conversation a little

906
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: bit awesome. Yeah. So one of the things we we ask,

907
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: as you've been sharing with what you do, I can

908
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 1: see I would say it's very stressful. It can be

909
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: very stressful over apps. What are things you do to

910
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 1: take care of yourselves? Actually, so I'm not very good

911
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: at this. My strategy for coping is just to myself

912
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: as busy as possible to the point where I don't

913
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: have any time to dwell. Um. So, like I finished

914
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: my contracting Afghanistan a few weeks ago, and since then

915
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:12,959
Speaker 1: I've just been on the road NonStop, and in fact,

916
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: I'm calling you from Moldova right now. Appreciate that. Yeah,

917
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 1: And the day after tomorrow I'll be doing the medical

918
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: like a polar medical or anything in Norway, and then

919
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 1: I'll go back to the U S. And then literally

920
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: the day after I get back, I go straight to work.

921
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: So my strategy which personally works for me, but I

922
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: can't prescribe to anyone else. Is that I keep myself

923
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: literally so busy that I don't have any time to

924
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 1: dwell at anything else. Yeah, um, And I mean I

925
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: think this is a huge problem, um, you know with

926
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: medical professionals, even in the United States, even that don't

927
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 1: you know, adventure to any other place. And so I

928
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: think that's another huge topic that needs to be discussed,

929
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: you know, because I don't think we do a very

930
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: good job as a culture. UM. I certainly spent twenty

931
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: years in them are jency room and reached a burnout

932
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: phase and um and had to leave bedside nursing for

933
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: a while because of that problem. So, you know, recognizing

934
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: that it is a real thing, that it affects everybody. Um.

935
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: And it may not hit you on the call or

936
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: the situation or the mission that you think it's going to,

937
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: but you know something else it's going to hit you then, UM.

938
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 1: So recognizing it and just as we suggested with you know,

939
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: the women in the DRC seking, I think it's important

940
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 1: for us to talk that it happens to everyone. And

941
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: absolutely I think so you know, we should normalize conversation

942
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: about these types of issues, like people are not comfortable

943
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: talking about the state of their mental health because they're like, oh,

944
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: if I mentioned that I'm having, you know, feeling down

945
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: or suicide whatever, Like are my friends going to call

946
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: the cops enough or whatever? Because I've definitely had that

947
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: happened to my friends, and I've even had it happened

948
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: to me, you know. But like, I think we should

949
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 1: be more open about talking about these things, and we

950
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: shouldn't sort of like assume everyone who talks about it

951
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: is in some kind of dire emergency state. Maybe they

952
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: just want someone to vent to, Maybe they just needed

953
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: to get this off their trust, and if you just

954
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: listen to them, I was like, yeah, dude, like that

955
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,879
Speaker 1: freaking sucks. No, I mean that makes perfect sense, because

956
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: you know, I know that I walked into the er

957
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: one day to work and um was crying hysterically and

958
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: told a friend, you know, I want to kill myself

959
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,720
Speaker 1: right now. Um. And so then of course it became

960
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: a huge issue, and as she said, you know, police

961
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: and all that were involved, and it was just I

962
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: was burnt out and could no longer watch the parade

963
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: of car accidents and guns shooting victims come in the

964
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: door anylong. I actually so like I joke about sort

965
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: of maybe like some people consider morbid, but like I

966
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: joke about sort of morbid topics a lot. Like I

967
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,879
Speaker 1: recently made a post that was like, does anyone get

968
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: this feeling where it's like, I'm not trying to actively

969
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: kill myself, but like if I walked on a grenade

970
00:53:58,040 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: or you know, if I stepped on a landline or

971
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: grenade landed in my lab, I wouldn't exactly be mad. Um.

972
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:05,800
Speaker 1: And like a ton of people actually like message me privately,

973
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 1: I was like, dude, yeah, I know exactly how you feel.

974
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: And I think so many of us. It's not that

975
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: we're necessarily just like suicidal, but we have these kind

976
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: of self destructive, realistic feelings and we have no outlet

977
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 1: for it because we're so afraid of being ousted. Do

978
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah,

979
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: We've talked about that many, many, many times in this

980
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: show Burnout and especially especially in the medical profession. Yeah.

981
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, normalizing it it's definitely something we should be

982
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 1: doing and hopefully moving that way. Okay, so what are

983
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: now that you've done this assessment mission? What are the

984
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: next steps what happens now. So now we have UM

985
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: the thirty plus advisor groups that are medical professionals mostly

986
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 1: psychiatrists from you know, places like Harvard, Columbia, Mountain, I

987
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: and I UM at their prestigious universities and medical centers

988
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 1: that are doing telehealth education providers in the DRC to

989
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 1: help them learn how to address some issues. We're trying

990
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: to gather a supply of medicines to provide them also,

991
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: but that's you know, a little bit harder, but at

992
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: least teaching them how to assess, um diagnose and then

993
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 1: treat people at a very basic level. Yeah, I think

994
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: so our long term goal with this project is to

995
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: sort of like be able to build up the local

996
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 1: indigenous capacity, like help them help themselves, like teach the

997
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: trainer or train the trainer initiatives if you will, UM,

998
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: And with these like weeklier monthly engagements, hopefully we can

999
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: build up the capacity and then those people can take

1000
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 1: their training to other communities and be able to deliver

1001
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: that information there. And you know, it is a bit

1002
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 1: of a lofty goal UM in a place like Congo,

1003
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: but we're i think pretty optimistic about it. And you know,

1004
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: of course there's always the potential for future teams to go,

1005
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: particularly like working in clinical psychology, like a little more

1006
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: on hands training, like bringing up these community champions um

1007
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: and giving them not only like the in person tools

1008
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 1: that they need, but maybe also sort of like some

1009
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: of the clinical knowledge like prescriptions or like pharmacology and

1010
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 1: stuff like that. That brings us to the end of

1011
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: our interview. But we do have a little bit more

1012
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: for you listeners, but first we have one more break

1013
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank

1014
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 1: you sponsor. And we did want to end on some

1015
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: positive things on the horizon for the d r C

1016
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 1: that will hopefully improve the sex and gender based violence

1017
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 1: going on there. One thing is getting more women in

1018
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: positions of power. To that end, in a group of

1019
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: NGOs and their local partners formed a movement called Nothing

1020
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 1: Without the Women to advocate for the Parity Act to

1021
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: get more women involved in all aspects of public life,

1022
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: although it did not come with specifics, and to push

1023
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: for a law that required at least one woman be

1024
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: listed on electoral ballots or the ballot cannot be registered.

1025
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: They received over two hundred thousand signatures after a march

1026
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: that drew more than six thousand people. The Parody Act

1027
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: was signed that same year, which is awesome. So just

1028
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: a little history of the Congolese women and politics. So Congress,

1029
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: women are not effectively represented and have never really participated

1030
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: in the governance of the countries ninety which is the

1031
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: year of the independence of the country. No woman has

1032
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: ever been head of State or head of government slash

1033
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: Prime minister, which neither have they in the US. So

1034
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: there's that um And there are a lot of reasons

1035
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: behind the lack of participation from women, including the mere

1036
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: family responsibility and sometimes the general fear in running for leadership.

1037
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: Although women constituted six a DRC electorate, the current overall

1038
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: representation of women is only seven point two percent in

1039
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: the high positions of recently established institutions Parliament as well

1040
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: as in the government. The DRC, Government, National Assembly and

1041
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: major institutions are all essentially run by men. Ironically, several

1042
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: of the organizations that are for women and support women

1043
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 1: are largely run by men as well, and according to sources,

1044
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: right now, there's no woman member of the Office of

1045
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 1: the Senate and there's only one woman among the seven

1046
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: members of the Office of the National Assembly. Out of

1047
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 1: the eight senators are only six women. There are forty

1048
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: three elected women out of five hundred elected members of

1049
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: the DRC National Assembly. Out of the forty five members

1050
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 1: of the government, there are only five women, of which

1051
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: four ministers and one vice minister, and there's no woman

1052
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: governor or vice governor of the eleven current provinces of

1053
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: the Republic. Getting more women in politics is really important

1054
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: for several reasons. Several things we touched on, one being

1055
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: finding from the International Peace Institute that when women are

1056
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: included in peace talks the chance of lasting peace goes

1057
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: up by thirty and also having women's spearhead these movements

1058
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: or laws around women's issues just kind of makes sense,

1059
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 1: right And as we know as we were having the

1060
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: interview with both Kim and Coco, there are women that

1061
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,959
Speaker 1: are gathering together and it's incredible what you can see

1062
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 1: when women gather together. So hopefully we'll see even bigger progress. Shoot,

1063
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: they might exceed us on the levels absolutely, and we

1064
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: wanted to end on this quote from Justine Massica Biamba

1065
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: from The Guardian, we do not see ourselves as the

1066
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: capital of the world. Instead, I agree with Liberia's noble

1067
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: Prize Laureate Lima Wilbe, who called my nation the world

1068
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: capital of sisterhood and solidarity. Congolese women have decided to

1069
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: take our future into our hands. We have few resources,

1070
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 1: but we have an enormous amount of No how it

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Speaker 1: really does seem like they do, just in the conversations

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Speaker 1: and the glowing law of the Coco income had for

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Speaker 1: that community. That sounds a powerful, powerful group of women,

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Speaker 1: very much so, and it was so worthwhile to to

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Speaker 1: have this conversation. We would love to have further conversations. UM.

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Speaker 1: I know frequently we focus on the United States because

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Speaker 1: we're based in the United States, but we don't want

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Speaker 1: to be limited in that scope. So yes emails send

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Speaker 1: us suggestions of what issues around the world we should

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Speaker 1: be talking about, and you can send those to our

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Speaker 1: email at Stuff Media, Mom Stuff at iHeart meia dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can also find us on social media on Twitter

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01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: at Moms offt podcast or on Instagram at stuff We

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Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer

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Speaker 1: Andrew Howard, thank you, Thanks to our guest Cam and Coco,

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Speaker 1: thank you, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've

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Speaker 1: Never Told You. The protection of iHeart radios, how stuff works.

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Speaker 1: For more podcast on iHeart Radio is the iHeart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.