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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, it's Ashland. I've been wanting to create a

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Speaker 1: space like this for a really long time. Wide Open

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Speaker 1: isn't just a podcast, It's an invitation my whole life.

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Speaker 1: As you know, I've been a part of teams and

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Speaker 1: locker rooms and communities where you learn real connection happens

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Speaker 1: when you show up fully, raw and unfiltered. That's what

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Speaker 1: I want to bring here is honest conversations about the

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Speaker 1: things that matter most identity, purpose, resilience, and the courage

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Speaker 1: it takes to live Wide Open. I started this podcast

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Speaker 1: because I believe stories can change us. They open doors,

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Speaker 1: they create belonging, and they spark movements. My goal with

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Speaker 1: Wide Open is to bring you into rooms and moments

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Speaker 1: that have shaped me in so many others, so that

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Speaker 1: together we can expand what's possible. I want this series

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Speaker 1: to inspire you. I want it to challenge you and

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Speaker 1: hopefully make you feel a little less alone. Recently, I

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Speaker 1: was lucky enough to sit in a circle at Gloria

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Speaker 1: Steinem's home where the feminist movement actually began. In this gathering,

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Speaker 1: we focused on women's health. Just imagine that a room

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Speaker 1: filled with women from all walks of life speaking truth

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Speaker 1: about our bodies, our rights, and the inequities we still

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Speaker 1: face today. What struck me was how powerful it felt

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Speaker 1: to be seen to be heard in a space like that,

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Speaker 1: no titles, no egos, just a collective will to fight

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Speaker 1: for something better. Gloria reminded us that health is political,

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Speaker 1: that caring for each other is a radical act. That

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Speaker 1: moment really deepened my own commitment to advocacy, whether it's

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Speaker 1: through my role as a board member of the HRC

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Speaker 1: or the Women's Sports Foundation, or how I show up

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Speaker 1: for my kids and this next generation. I know that visibility,

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Speaker 1: access and safe spaces are not optional, They're essential. And

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Speaker 1: I want this podcast to be another place where we

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Speaker 1: push those conversations forward, where we talk openly about equity

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Speaker 1: and inclusion and the future we're all responsible for building.

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Speaker 1: So thank you for being here. At the very beginning

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Speaker 1: of this journey, my promise was to keep it wide open,

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Speaker 1: to keep it vulnerable, curious, and most importantly real. I'm

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Speaker 1: excited for where we're going together today on Wide Open,

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting down with someone who refuses to be put

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Speaker 1: in a box. Jamila Jamil is actor, activist, writer, and

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Speaker 1: the brilliant mind behind Eyeway movement. She's used her platform

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Speaker 1: to challenge how we talk about bodies, power, and worth,

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Speaker 1: and she does it with humor, honesty, and the fire

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Speaker 1: that can't be ignored. From the good place to the

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Speaker 1: front lines of cultural conversations, Jamila has been unappolig jetically

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Speaker 1: herself and today I can't wait to talk about where

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Speaker 1: she's been, what she's learned, and what she's building next.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Hi, how are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm so good? Well, you know the world's on fire,

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Speaker 1: but doing okay with the current context of well, I guess,

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Speaker 1: how are you quite?

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Speaker 2: It's quite a funny sort of like very typically woman,

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Speaker 2: but I guess also just our generation to be like

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Speaker 2: I'm so good, I'm amazing, and then the reality hits you, nigo,

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Speaker 2: but also very sad. Yeah, but it's a default answer,

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Speaker 2: isn't it to people? Please?

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Speaker 1: Really positive answer. Yeah, but I also think it's like,

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Speaker 1: yeah it is. I'm turning forty in October, which I

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Speaker 1: think we're the same age. You're turning forty, correct, yes,

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Speaker 1: in February, and okay, so we're very close. I love

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Speaker 1: this and I'm just like, wow, I never thought at

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Speaker 1: forty be where we are now. As women in the landscape.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like just a little gutted and ready to

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Speaker 1: roll my sleeves up and get to work because we

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Speaker 1: need a lot of action. And I think that's what

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Speaker 1: what I am so drawn to you over is your

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Speaker 1: ability to show up so true to yourself and really

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Speaker 1: push the envelope when it comes to like really hard conversations,

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Speaker 1: which I find so powerful. And I'm curious, like I

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Speaker 1: want to hear your story of how you came to

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Speaker 1: this and how you found your voice and what were

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Speaker 1: you like moving through the world as a young girl,

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Speaker 1: because not everyone feels so confident and really living their

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Speaker 1: truth and openly true to the public and their following

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Speaker 1: without being so worried about controversy and backlash.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I was quite a quiet child and teenager.

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Speaker 2: I didn't have lots of thoughts and opinions out loud,

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Speaker 2: and this probably carried on through to you know, I

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Speaker 2: was starting to find my voice around nineteen twenty about

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Speaker 2: certain issues, eating disorder, culture, etc. But by the time

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Speaker 2: I was twenty six, I was just so repressed of

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Speaker 2: everything that I tried to commit suicide. And it was

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Speaker 2: the second time i'd tried, and I knew I would

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Speaker 2: try again if I didn't change everything about my life.

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Speaker 2: And I found out that repression causes depression, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: that's probably what's going on here as to why I'm

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Speaker 2: so in such a dark and hopeless place, is because

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Speaker 2: I've got so much built up in me over my

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Speaker 2: life that it feels untenable to be able to unravel it.

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Speaker 2: So it's easier just to tap out. So I thought, Okay,

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Speaker 2: if I'm going to stick around and try again, I

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Speaker 2: have to change everything really radically and abandon any former

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Speaker 2: belief or behavior that I used to hold. And so

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Speaker 2: that meant that I lived in upside downland, and I

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Speaker 2: entered into a ten year crash dummy test as to

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Speaker 2: what my life would look like if I did everything

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Speaker 2: in the reverse of what I'd done at that point.

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Speaker 2: So that meant never holding my tongue about anything ever.

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Speaker 2: It meant acting with autonomy, it meant doing what I wanted.

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Speaker 2: It meant rebelling in every way that I wanted to

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Speaker 2: rebel and telling the truth to anyone who would listen

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Speaker 2: about what I really thought about society. And so I

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Speaker 2: culled a lot of people in my life. I moved country,

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Speaker 2: I moved, you know, to the other side of the world.

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Speaker 2: I left my relationship. I had, you know, an abortion,

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Speaker 2: which is something that the previous me probably would have

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Speaker 2: felt too scared and too guilty to do. I just

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Speaker 2: I seized my autonomy and my mental health proper went away.

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Speaker 1: Wow. So that was your moment of being aware of

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Speaker 1: the power you held.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, look, that's not going to be

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Speaker 2: the case for everyone. Lots of people have chemical imbalances

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Speaker 2: that lead to mental health issues, but mine would would

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Speaker 2: directly link to swallowing abuse and trauma and pushing it down.

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Speaker 2: And you know, it's just you don't have a bottomless

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Speaker 2: pit to hide all of that pain in. At some point,

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Speaker 2: you like it's going to come back up. And mine

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Speaker 2: came back up quite young, at twenty six, and I

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Speaker 2: had a nervous breakdown and I've never looked back. And

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Speaker 2: I've only had a few small dips since then. But

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Speaker 2: other than that, I've been like, not just stable, but

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Speaker 2: happy and fulfilled. And I feel very strong, which I

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Speaker 2: never felt in my early life.

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Speaker 1: I love your vulnerability and open openness because I do

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Speaker 1: think the way you speak about it, it's your superpower.

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Speaker 1: It's not like your crutch. It's not like it's termed

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Speaker 1: mean your scars into power, which I really think I

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Speaker 1: live my life through it as well. I think it's

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Speaker 1: so important, and I think for so long we've been

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Speaker 1: told to be quiet about those moments in life, and

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Speaker 1: it's so personal and it's not for everyone, but I

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Speaker 1: think it's such a learning moment and pivotal moment in

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Speaker 1: the becoming that if we don't share it, we don't

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Speaker 1: feel that community in that belonging.

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Speaker 2: Would you agree, Yeah, well, I think it's just patriarchal.

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Speaker 2: It's a patriarchal belief that we should withhold and refrain

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Speaker 2: and have a stiff up a lip. That's very it's

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Speaker 2: toxic masculinity that's been imposed upon women. Divine femininity means

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Speaker 2: sharing and building community. I mean, gossip is something that

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Speaker 2: was created by women who needed to exchange vital life

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Speaker 2: saving information. We open our mouths like femininity means telling

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Speaker 2: the truth to one another, and so I think part

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Speaker 2: of my truly embracing femininity was to be able to

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Speaker 2: use my words and communicate and reach out across to

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Speaker 2: other women and make sure that we were all exchanging

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Speaker 2: the truth. So I find it very very misogynist or patriarchal.

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Speaker 2: I'd say to hold it in and patriarchy kills. Look

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Speaker 2: at the states and men. Look at the suicide statistics

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Speaker 2: of men. Look at the mental health statistics of Mendal company.

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Speaker 2: You know, violent murderers are men. Violent members of society

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Speaker 2: are men like they are in crisis. And partially it's

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Speaker 2: because they have never been instructed or allowed or encouraged

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Speaker 2: to use their words. And so the same thing that

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Speaker 2: was killing them was killing me, and I decided to

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Speaker 2: abandon it and saved my life.

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Speaker 1: It's beautiful, it's beautifully said. Thank you for sharing that.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, though, why did you choose to be so

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Speaker 1: outspoken about women's health, And because it is a You've

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Speaker 1: become so blunt, and a lot of people are not

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Speaker 1: used to women speaking so openly about their bodies and

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Speaker 1: their experiences, because it's like you open yourself to a

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Speaker 1: bunch of controversy all the time. Because this landscape of

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Speaker 1: social media, everyone has something to say. But why did

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Speaker 1: you choose that specific part to advocate so strongly for

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Speaker 1: the last several decades.

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Speaker 2: I think I don't know. I think partially it's because

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Speaker 2: I almost died from this shit, so I don't want

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Speaker 2: anyone else to suffer. And if I could recycle all

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Speaker 2: that pain and trauma and all those mistakes into stopping

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Speaker 2: someone else from making them, you know, even if it's

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Speaker 2: just one life I was able to alter or save,

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Speaker 2: that's enough. That's worth taking on global dislike or global disrepute.

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Speaker 2: Like it's okay for me not to be liked by

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Speaker 2: a bunch of fucking strangers. I don't like them either.

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Speaker 2: I don't like anyone incredibly unfriendly, you know. So I've

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Speaker 2: got about thirteen people in my life who I hold

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Speaker 2: very dear to me, and you know, I'm really not

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Speaker 2: that fuss about what any Marlon Rando thinks about me,

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Speaker 2: and they shouldn't be fussed about what I think about them.

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Speaker 2: So in the same way that I don't walk around

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Speaker 2: thinking loving thoughts about everyone, I don't expect everyone to

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Speaker 2: have loving thoughts about me. And there's a tremendous peace

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Speaker 2: to that. Again, it's patriarchy that teaches women that it's,

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Speaker 2: you know, our job to be liked. We just don't

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Speaker 2: teach men or boys that ever. We teach them to

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Speaker 2: go out there and achieve and become the best that

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Speaker 2: they can be. And you know a bunch of also

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Speaker 2: bullshit things that we teach boys and men, but with women,

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Speaker 2: we burden them with this task to be liked and

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Speaker 2: believed and understood and be palatable. And I can't think

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Speaker 2: of anything more exhausting or boring than being palatable to everyone.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's so unique and truth yes, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: like all kinds of different foods or different sex things,

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Speaker 2: or people who enjoy someone shitting on their chest. You know,

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Speaker 2: I am I to try to please everyone sexually, physically, emotionally, intellectually.

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Speaker 2: One size does not fit all, and so I'm just

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Speaker 2: I'd prefer to find my community and actually be myself

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Speaker 2: with them. So I think the fact that I knew

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Speaker 2: that I was whatever had broken me free from that

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Speaker 2: societal expectation meant that I knew that that was my superpower.

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Speaker 2: Was not giving a shit what other people's like, genuinely

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Speaker 2: being okay with you know, never wanting to hurt people,

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Speaker 2: never wanting to offend people. That was always something I

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Speaker 2: did by accident. But not being okay was not being

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Speaker 2: liked or people finding me annoying was my superpower, and

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Speaker 2: so I was like, okay, well, I don't really give

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Speaker 2: a shit if this industry kicks me out, because I

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Speaker 2: didn't plan on being in it anywhere. I was an

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Speaker 2: English teacher, you know, who got discovered and then put

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Speaker 2: on television, and then The Good Place was my first

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Speaker 2: ever acting audition. I just got very, very lucky in

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Speaker 2: my career, and so I always looked at the career

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Speaker 2: as a trojan horse to make my point. So I

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Speaker 2: had never had anything to lose. And the reason that

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Speaker 2: I get attacked a lot by the media is because

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Speaker 2: I attack the people that fund the media, and so

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Speaker 2: I'm very dangerous because I've got nothing to lose. They

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Speaker 2: can't threaten me by taking my job away. They can't

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Speaker 2: threaten me by hurting my reputation and taking brand deals

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Speaker 2: away because that was never my plan anyway. So I'm living.

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Speaker 2: I've always considered myself to be living in this industry

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Speaker 2: on very borrowed time, and I think that's what makes

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Speaker 2: me scary, you knowing there's nothing more dangerous than someone

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Speaker 2: who's got nothing to lose. That are used to seeing

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Speaker 2: that in the form of a woman.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that part, but you are giving other women permission

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Speaker 1: to do so. And I love the platforms you use

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Speaker 1: to speak up about the things that people are a

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Speaker 1: little scared or shameful to do, to go against the green.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we're so taught to follow in line.

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Speaker 1: You have to be this way, and any time we

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Speaker 1: have an opinion like you said, or speak up, just

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Speaker 1: like oh she's controversial, Oh she's an asshole, or she's

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Speaker 1: a bit.

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Speaker 2: Annoying annoyingly the one that is the most effective and

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Speaker 2: getting women shut up. Yeah, I mean it's so strange

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Speaker 2: and I don't really mind. If I don't really mind

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Speaker 2: being called annoying. It is who who has ever threatened

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Speaker 2: a system and not been annoying. All the people that

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Speaker 2: we think are cool are silent. Specifically, the women, the

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Speaker 2: women that are our fads are the ones who don't

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Speaker 2: ruffle any feathers, who just come out and they're obediently thin,

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Speaker 2: and they have perfect skin, and they look great and

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Speaker 2: they fit whatever trend is going on now, and they

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Speaker 2: don't really get political. Those the women who we look

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Speaker 2: at as the internet's faves. We've never looked at people

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Speaker 2: who challenge systems and been like, oh, they're so cool,

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Speaker 2: because they're not. You have to be fucking annoying. It's jarring,

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Speaker 2: it's irritating, or holding a mirror up to society or

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Speaker 2: pointing out hypocrisy. At that part, you're delivering information imperfectly

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Speaker 2: because you're you know, you'll learn that you're going along.

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Speaker 2: It's all. It's messy work, and you have to be

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Speaker 2: prepared to be seen as messy because you're not You're

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Speaker 2: not going along, you know, with the with the tide.

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Speaker 2: And so how could you not piss people off for

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Speaker 2: a variety of reasons that are partially your fault, or

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Speaker 2: just because you're pointing out something very uncomfortable. I exist

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Speaker 2: in a hyper focus on inconvenient truths, and so it

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Speaker 2: makes me an inconvenient person. It fucks people off, And

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Speaker 2: that's okay because ultimately, as long as I'm getting my

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Speaker 2: point across, that's the main goal.

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Speaker 1: And you're doing it very well, and I'm just trying

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Speaker 1: to follow in your footsteps a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Oh just Li, You're just plenty, You're doing so much.

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment. After

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Speaker 1: this brief message from our sponsors. I appreciate that, but

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Speaker 1: I'm cure curious. What was it for you to just

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Speaker 1: be like bucket I'm going to pick pack my bags.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go to Hollywood. I'm going to give

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Speaker 1: this a girl, and I get this audition for the

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Speaker 1: good Place and I land it and here's my life. Now.

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Speaker 2: None of it was a sort of thought out plan.

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Speaker 2: It was It's I'm a very reactive person, which I

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Speaker 2: think if you've ever followed me on the internet probably so.

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Speaker 2: It's very much so. You know, it's a fuck around

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Speaker 2: and find out lifestyle, but in a fun positive way

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Speaker 2: where I'm excited to see what's going to happen. And again,

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Speaker 2: this kind of trails back to my lack of care

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Speaker 2: as to my reputation. Right, I take risks, I think, oh,

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Speaker 2: that would be funny to try, and if I fail,

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Speaker 2: that'll be funny. And if I embarrass myself, I'll find

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Speaker 2: that funny. My friends will find that funny. So because

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Speaker 2: I'm never trying to impress anyone ever, it means that

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Speaker 2: I have this freedom to make some truly mad decisions

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Speaker 2: all the time, to be like, maybe I'm just gonna

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Speaker 2: pack up my shit and abandon my career and move

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Speaker 2: to the other side of the world when no one

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Speaker 2: knows who I am. Maybe I'm going to go and

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Speaker 2: do this. Maybe I'm going to do that. Maybe I'm

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Speaker 2: going to try music production, Maybe I'm gonna try acting.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm going to become a writer, Maybe I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: become an advocate of all these different things that I try.

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Speaker 2: I just throw myself in at the deep end, because

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Speaker 2: that's what men are taught to do. Men are not

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Speaker 2: told to be perfect from the beginning. And so it's just,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think, I just I think true feminism

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Speaker 2: is not hating men. It's just wanting equality. And equality

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Speaker 2: means that I get to live my life with the

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Speaker 2: same peace and lack of burden that men get to

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Speaker 2: live theirs with. And I very much so look at

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Speaker 2: the way that my boyfriend lives his life, and I

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Speaker 2: try to match that same energy. I try to make

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Speaker 2: sure we get ready for the same amount of time,

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Speaker 2: and we you know, we go after our dreams in

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Speaker 2: the same way, and we live as on apologetically as

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Speaker 2: each other. And he's great at encouraging me to do so.

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Speaker 2: He never tries to make me smaller.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's that's also very important. And I'm curious because

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Speaker 1: I spoke, I spoke on this, you know, last week

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Speaker 1: on a panel and I want to ask you because

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Speaker 1: I do think it's so important and I think you

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Speaker 1: are leading the pack when it comes to this. So

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Speaker 1: I'm curious what's your what's your take on like failure

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Speaker 1: and your take on kind of like stepping outside the box,

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Speaker 1: because what I'll say is your ability to just run

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Speaker 1: with things and try it. You're you move differently than

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Speaker 1: most women. And I'm curious because I spoke about this

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Speaker 1: the other day as an athlete who did the same thing.

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Speaker 1: I just wasn't scared to fail. I fucking tried everything relentlessly,

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Speaker 1: and I I didn't care what happened because I knew

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Speaker 1: every moment was a learning lesson. And I think so

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Speaker 1: many women are so fucking scared to fail and sit

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Speaker 1: in fear that they choose comfort, that they choose this

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Speaker 1: marriage because it's easy and I have this, you know,

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Speaker 1: the kids and this, And what is it about you?

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Speaker 1: How do you move through life and your concept of failure,

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Speaker 1: because clearly you didn't give a shit, and I think

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Speaker 1: that makes you really special.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm may be more afraid of something else

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Speaker 2: than I am failure, and that is the words. What

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Speaker 2: if I'm more afraid of regret than I am a failure.

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Speaker 2: I'm more afraid of being haunted by the decisions that

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Speaker 2: I made that stopped me from finding out what could

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Speaker 2: have happened. That to me, is much scarier than failure.

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Speaker 2: And I watch a significant amount of videos of people,

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Speaker 2: you know, who are either dying or at the end

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Speaker 2: of their life, or literally on a deathbed, you know,

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Speaker 2: being interviewed about what they would have done differently, And

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Speaker 2: especially when it comes to women, it is I must

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Speaker 2: be over ninety percent of the women who were just

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Speaker 2: like I wish I hadn't lived my life according to

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Speaker 2: what other people thought. I wish I'd rebelled more. I

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Speaker 2: wish I'd behaved worse. And so, you know, I think

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Speaker 2: it's almost it feels almost like a conspiracy, the way

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Speaker 2: that we push older women out of the way and

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Speaker 2: we get rid of them and we send them to

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Speaker 2: sit by a window. You know, in Western culture, we

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Speaker 2: don't race the elderly and the lessons of the elderly.

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Speaker 2: We don't respect our elders. We disrespect older women, specifically

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Speaker 2: older women, and we hide them and we tell them

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Speaker 2: to distract themselves or the race against time and gravity,

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Speaker 2: because older women will tell us the truth. And I

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Speaker 2: think that truth is to rebel and to fight back,

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Speaker 2: and to be disobedient and to live a life for

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Speaker 2: yourself and to chase pleasure and comfort and autonomy. And

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Speaker 2: I guess, and I'm trying. I'm racing towards my Crone era.

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Speaker 2: Other women fear their Crone era, whereas I'm desperate to

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Speaker 2: get there. And I guess I've been kind of launched

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Speaker 2: micron era early to try and get all the information

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Speaker 2: I can out to the young ones before I get

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Speaker 2: pushed out and put by a window, although that'd be

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Speaker 2: very difficult to do to me. But I don't see

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Speaker 2: that genuine. It's a genuine conspiracy to shut older women up.

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Speaker 2: We used to really respect. The word krone was something

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Speaker 2: that was not negative, you know. The word spinster was

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Speaker 2: not a negative word. That all of these words have

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Speaker 2: been turned into something dark and sad by patriarchy. Older

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Speaker 2: women have the key, They have all of the answers,

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Speaker 2: not just for women but also for men. Therefore they

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Speaker 2: are a threat to society. Therefore they must be removed, erased,

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Speaker 2: you know. And whenever we show them out in public,

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Speaker 2: we must make them perform use you know, every fucking

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Speaker 2: TV show I see with actresses over fifty. It's so blurred.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm watching AI or YEA.

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Speaker 1: The beauty effect. It's like this filter that we don't.

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Speaker 2: Have on the men, the men who age appropriate with

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Speaker 2: these women. They look like pedophiles, you know, because the

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Speaker 2: girl looks like a teenager, but she's fifty. It's ridiculous,

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Speaker 2: it's very distracting. It's very hard to get lost in

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Speaker 2: a TV show anymore with an actress over forty because

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Speaker 2: of how much they blur her face. It's like a

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Speaker 2: cartoon I suddenly stepped onto the screen. It really pisses

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Speaker 2: me off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've been really outspoken lately about the beauty

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Speaker 1: standard and what's going on in this current landscape, and listen,

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Speaker 1: this is this is a conversation that is really gonna

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Speaker 1: shift the landscape of how we view beauty, and I

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Speaker 1: think we're really going backwards. So I'm glad that you

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Speaker 1: kind of just put us in that topic because you know,

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Speaker 1: you recently spoke about these you know, gpl ones or

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Speaker 1: all of these different drugs that are coming out now

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Speaker 1: that are making people very very thin. And I just

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Speaker 1: am curious as someone who's advocating so hard and this space, Like,

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Speaker 1: are you worried what the media is doing now because

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Speaker 1: we were so body positive and we've kind of flipped,

397
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: flipped a little switch and we're going backwards because now

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Speaker 1: everything is thin, thin, thin, thin, thin. And you know,

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Speaker 1: recently you spoke on the Serena Williams thing. I'm curious

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Speaker 1: if you could elaborate on your feeling and thoughts as

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Speaker 1: someone who's been advocating for so long about body positivity

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Speaker 1: and all the stuff you've had to go through and

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Speaker 1: you've experienced firsthand. Has this been hard?

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's definitely hard and pressing, But it's also just

405
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 2: historically accurate that every time the world leads towards conservatism

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Speaker 2: and fascism, beauty standards for women become more restrictive and constrictive. Right, So,

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00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: so every time you trap back through history, anytime there

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Speaker 2: is an authoritarian uprising, we always see women expected to

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Speaker 2: become very small, very frail. And the reason women are

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Speaker 2: supposed to look small and frail. Listen, just to be clear,

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Speaker 2: anyone who needs a GLP one should take a GOLP one.

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Speaker 2: They could be worth saving medications. I talk about the

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Speaker 2: abuse of golp ones to fit a very temporary beauty standard,

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Speaker 2: one that always comes along for women to look specifically fragile.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're an athlete. You don't want to look

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Speaker 2: fragile or to be fragile. Strength is your superpower. Strength

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00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: is women's superpower, while tolerance and our strength is what

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00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 2: makes us so exceptional. And it's because of an insecure

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Speaker 2: patriarchy that in order for them to look big and

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Speaker 2: to feel big and strong, they need us to be

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Speaker 2: small and thinner because they don't feel like they can

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Speaker 2: rise to the challenge. Similarly, with the fact that women

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Speaker 2: are out, you know, outrunning men when it comes to school,

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Speaker 2: higher education. We're buying homes faster than men are. You know,

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Speaker 2: at a younger age. Women are climbing ladders faster than men,

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Speaker 2: in spite of being held back up until maybe thirty

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Speaker 2: or forty years ago, beyond all belief, not even able

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Speaker 2: to have our own bank accounts. And so the men

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00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 2: have been emasculated by other men on the internet to

430
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 2: believe that they are incapable of rising up to women's level.

431
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: So the only possible avenue is to bring women back down.

432
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 2: And I find that very sad and emasculating for men.

433
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 2: I think that's very offensive to men and boys to

434
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: be told, oh, no, you wouldn't possibly be able to

435
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 2: become more emotionally intelligent or desirable to women based on

436
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 2: your personality, So you're just going to have to take

437
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: away women's voting rights. Or no, women understand too much,

438
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 2: we need to take away their education. I'll no, women

439
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: are speaking to each other too much. We need to

440
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 2: stop them from speaking on the internet. How sad to

441
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 2: believe to have no growth mindset whatsoever, and had to

442
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 2: have a grown man in his fifties lecture you with

443
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: a cigar in his mouth about how bringing bitches down

444
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: is the only way to stay on top. Imagine making

445
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 2: men feel like that. It's like a glass ceiling that's

446
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 2: there for men, an emotional glass ceiling. I find it

447
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 2: very pathetic and sad for those men. I'm you know,

448
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: I feel very bad for the boys that are being

449
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 2: told this. And women have got experience of being told

450
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 2: you'll never do better than this, so we know how

451
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 2: that feels. And it's very very dark. And think God,

452
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: women have pushed each other through that ceiling to start

453
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 2: to achieve. But I do think we're rolling backwards, but

454
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 2: specifically regarding the beauty standards of extreme use. You know,

455
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 2: despite however old you are, like how normalized the facelift

456
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 2: has become. How normalized botox was, and we were told

457
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: it was safe, and then we found out it wasn't safe.

458
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: So we were told filler is much safer, and philler's

459
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: great because it dissolves within six months. And now we

460
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: found out that philler did not in fact dissolve within

461
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 2: six months, and two years later people are still of

462
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 2: finding it on MRIs and actually it's not good for you,

463
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: and it's not good for your immune system. And you know,

464
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: facelifts only last I think five to ten years, and

465
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 2: you have to have another one and eventually you run

466
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 2: out of skin. So it's just this endless pursuit of use.

467
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 2: But my point is is that this obsession always comes

468
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 2: along when women need to be distracted, when women are

469
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 2: doing too well, when we need our eyes taken off

470
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: the ball is when the most obscene beauty standards are

471
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 2: imposed upon us. And these are this is the most

472
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: powerful women have ever been in the world, and this

473
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: is the most obscene our beauty standards have ever been

474
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: forever use for ever thinness, fighting, achieving the you know,

475
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: winning against time and gravity, obsessed with collagen, obsessed with hairlessness.

476
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: All very pedophilic. Like, everything's very pedophilic, because we have,

477
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,719
Speaker 2: you know, a world that is being largely navigated by

478
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: a small minority of pervert men who want to have

479
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 2: sex with teenagers, who want to normalize their desire to

480
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: have sex with teenagers, so they have normalized the beauty

481
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: standard being as close to teenager as possible, so that

482
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 2: it doesn't look freakish for them to want to have

483
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: sex with people who are practically children. And these, this

484
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: small group of pedophiles, have managed to control our entire

485
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 2: beauty standard. There's plenty of men. I'm with a man

486
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: who is attracted to grown women. There are plenty of

487
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: men I know who do not have fancy teenage girls,

488
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 2: whose preference is not teenage girls, and whose preference isn't

489
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 2: super skinny, and whose preference isn't white skin or a

490
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: button nose or the doe eyes.

491
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: You know.

492
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: Yes, there are many men whose preference isn't tall and

493
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: thin or shortened. There are men who love musterly women.

494
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: There are all kinds of different beauty standards out there,

495
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: and different preferences. Women fancy different things in other women.

496
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: It's truly bizarre how many of us are expected to

497
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: fall in line with this uniform of beauty standard. It

498
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: makes no sense to me. It's truly just pedophilia, fascism,

499
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: and conservatism.

500
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: So I'm curious what advice would you have for this

501
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: younger generation who are now rethinking how they want to

502
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: live in their own body because of what you're talking about.

503
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: First of all, you have to be very careful about

504
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 2: who you're following online. I think it's something like ninety

505
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: seconds from when you log on as a young woman

506
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,719
Speaker 2: or a teenage girl before you are directed. Like before

507
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: content is directed towards you, that is telling you to

508
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: alter your appearance and eating disordered content for example. So

509
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: you're being hunted via algorithms by predatory content to make

510
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: you feel bad about the way you look. So you'll

511
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 2: spend your hard earned money in a world where you

512
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: don't make as much money as men, spend all of

513
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: your money on fixing something that was never broken. When

514
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: it comes to your aesthetic, I would also say that

515
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: something that really helped me, and I don't know if

516
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: a lot of people feel this way, but I'm very

517
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: powered by spite. And every time I look in the

518
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: mirror and think a negative thought about myself, I imagine

519
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: a man making more money from that thought as a

520
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: man is there's a group of men who want me

521
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: to feel that way, who are going to get richer

522
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: if I feel that way and do.

523
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: Something about it. And I need to do.

524
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: That idea of I love the idea of spiting their

525
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 2: by choosing myself and not succumbing to their desires, their

526
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: pervert desires of what I'm supposed to look like and

527
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 2: how I'm supposed to live my life. And third of all,

528
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: and this is probably the most important thing, is that

529
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: no one cares about the second half of your life,

530
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: as in patriarchy doesn't care about the second half of

531
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 2: your life. And the second half of your life is

532
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: when shit gets really great. Right, Yeah, this is I

533
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: can feel the turn happening of me being the happiest

534
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: I've ever been, having the best sex I've ever had.

535
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: Say it again, Say it again, say it again.

536
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: Turning forty like I cannot get to my forties fast enough.

537
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 2: I've never felt more sane, more whole. I've never understood

538
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,719
Speaker 2: the world better. I've never understood myself better. I am

539
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 2: at ease now. Yes, Now, this is the bit where

540
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: women become really scary to men who are insecure, and

541
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 2: so they don't care what happens to us, which is

542
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 2: why they sell us all of these quick fixed things

543
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 2: that have tremendous damage that can be done that will

544
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: show up later. Right, So, if you don't eat enough,

545
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: you will develop osteoporosis, which is a lack of bone density,

546
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 2: which is going to make you brittle. So when you

547
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: just bang your arm or you fall over, you'll break

548
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: a hip, You'll break your arm. You will become a

549
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: brittle older woman. And I don't mean an old old

550
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: old like ninety year old. I mean forties, fifties. This

551
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: stuff will start to ruin your life. You will thin

552
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: your heart, you will destroy your mental health, you will

553
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: destroy your your gut microbiome. You will, which will then

554
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: in turn impact your ability to produce serotonin and dopamine.

555
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: You will fuck up your teeth, you will fuck up

556
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 2: your hair, you will you will spend I think this

557
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 2: is something like it's something like eighteen years is on

558
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: average how much of a woman's life she spends thinking

559
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: about her body and diet culture.

560
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: Really, Yes, I was one.

561
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: Study I read, but they were estimating how much of

562
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: our lives. So I'm begging you, if you want to

563
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 2: be a wild, strong, grown woman who feels happy and

564
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: healthy and lives a long, strong life, please eat properly,

565
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: stay away from anyone who's discouraging you from doing so.

566
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: Learn about proper nutrition, Learn how to nourish yourself, lift weight,

567
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: get strong, become harder to kidnap.

568
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.

569
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 2: God, So this like slogan going viral on TikTok that

570
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: was like, stay skinny, stay safe.

571
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

572
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: What the smaller and the lighter you are, the easier

573
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: you are to kidnap. Right, you need to learn how

574
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: to fight. You need to learn how to fucking beat

575
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: someone up. I think the.

576
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: Fact that we have to even think about this is

577
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: just so ridiculous.

578
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: It's so ridiculous. But look at the world right now.

579
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: You know you've got people dressing up as ice agents,

580
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: kidnapping women and sexually assaulting them. This is not a

581
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: time to be frail. This is of time to be

582
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: skinny and be easier to lift and carry away in

583
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: a van. This is the time to be We should

584
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 2: really be getting as fat as possible, and as heavy

585
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 2: as possible, and as strong as strong. I know you

586
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: should be wearing like anchors on our ankles. You know

587
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: this is a time to be immovable, like I want

588
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: to wear armor made like with spikes all over it.

589
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: Right now, I am one word yeah, I agree.

590
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 2: You know. I want to get as strong as possible.

591
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: I'm learning how to fight at the moment. It feels amazing.

592
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 2: It's changed my gait.

593
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: I love this. Stay tuned. I'll be back in just

594
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: a moment after this brief message from our sponsors. Tell

595
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: me more. Because you speak so much about body positivity

596
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: and the movements, your period, poverty, women's health. You advocate

597
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: for so much. What do you do for yourself to

598
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: take care of your body?

599
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 2: Well, I mostly walk and run around with my dogs,

600
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 2: but boxing is very important to me.

601
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: Well, I love it.

602
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 2: I like to hit. It has massively reduced my rage

603
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: because like getting out somewhere, it's very important to get

604
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 2: your rage out, especially as I'm hurtling towards perimenopause. And

605
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 2: then I just eat very well. I eat delicious, nutritious food.

606
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: I eat what I crave. I don't diet anymore. I

607
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: don't restrict. When I feel as though the clothes are

608
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: too small, I won't wear the clothes. I'm not. I

609
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 2: don't participate like I was supposed to go and do

610
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: a bunch of shows that I was supposed to go

611
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,479
Speaker 2: to as part of my job, you know, fashion shows,

612
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: et cetera. And I tried on the clothes and the

613
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: clothes are too small. Now my options are I can

614
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: spend one thousand pounds of my own money to alter

615
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 2: each item and feel bad myself and uncomfortable, or I

616
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 2: can go well, no, fuck you, I'm not going there.

617
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 2: Like enjoy not having you know, certain people turn up

618
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 2: to your shows because you're so untalented. You couldn't design

619
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 2: something for an adult a variety of adult woman bodies.

620
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 1: It's so true.

621
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: So you know, like I just protect I protect my

622
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 2: mental health in that way. If I get less jobs

623
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 2: because I'm not super skinny and because I don't have

624
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 2: you know, a very very tight face of an eighteen

625
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 2: year old, then maybe I'm just not supposed to work

626
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: in this industry. But I refuse to. You know, women

627
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 2: are already at so much risk and of so many things.

628
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: So we have the most autoimmune disorders, we're constantly being

629
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: We're endangered by men everywhere we go, not to strangers,

630
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 2: but more so the ones that we know in our

631
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: own homes. It's like, am I not in enough danger

632
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 2: already that I have stanger myself that I have to

633
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 2: get a Brazilian butt lift, and then that they kill

634
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: loads of people. And then now people have been told

635
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: I know, actually we don't want you to have an ass,

636
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: so they're getting their Brazilian butt lifts so scary, their

637
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 2: implants are removed. It's like in and out, in outshake

638
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 2: it all about, like, what what is this? I'm in

639
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 2: enough pain, like my friends haveing demetrious, like pcos we

640
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 2: have most of the automune, or doesn't we have? Women

641
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: are struggling enough, We go through enough pain. I get

642
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 2: my period every month. I have to exist in this

643
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 2: world where reproductive rights are being taken away, well, gynecological

644
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: health has been taken away, well, where our health research

645
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: and studies are being deleted in perpetuity. Why on earth

646
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 2: would I subject myself to more pain, more risk. All

647
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 2: these things carry significant risks, lifelong risks. They can kill you,

648
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: They kill people, these things. Why would I do that voluntarily?

649
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: In a world that's already trying so hard to kill me.

650
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 2: Why would I hate them?

651
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: Because we are tall that our job is to care

652
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: for everybody else but our fucking self, and that that's

653
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: why we're dying earlier, That's why men need women to

654
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: live longer lives and we live shorter because we are constantly,

655
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 1: always taking care of other people besides ourselves.

656
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: This is why I refuse to get married or have children.

657
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 2: That's for my personal decision was just no, I've lived

658
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: a life of service. I can't be bothered anymore. I'm

659
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 2: not doing anything else now for anyone else. I will,

660
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: you know, exist in my advocacy within that boundary, but

661
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: outside of that, this life is for me. And as

662
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 2: I kind of alluded to earlier, women are taught that,

663
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 2: you know, pleasure is a privilege and not a right,

664
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: and that is incorrect. That is false propaganda. Life is

665
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 2: for pleasure and you should be seeking it everywhere you can,

666
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 2: especially now during these terrible times. And this life is

667
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: yours to live, and you will regret it so much

668
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 2: if you do not try and find out who you

669
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 2: are really are and what you're really capable of. You know,

670
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 2: I was talking about this recently, on a podcast that

671
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 2: I went to a party of all lesbians. Right there

672
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 2: was normally, when I go to a gay party, it's

673
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: predominantly gay men, and then you've got some gay women

674
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: and for some reason they don't normally fraternize together. In England,

675
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: I guess as much, but it didn't feel quite separate.

676
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: So I went to a party of almost exclusively lesbians

677
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,919
Speaker 2: and for the first time ever was in a room

678
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 2: of all women expressing themselves, dressed comfortably, being unbelievably funny,

679
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 2: out loud and unapologetically being opinionated, arguing with each other

680
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: without it becoming a fight. Everyone felt so secure. There

681
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 2: was such a feeling of safety and ease in the room.

682
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: There was pizza and women were eating it, and I

683
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 2: just thought, right, this is who all women would have

684
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 2: been if men hadn't been looking, and you know gay women.

685
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 2: Of course, I go through so many different types of

686
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 2: scrutiny and being forced into all kinds of different boxes.

687
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,439
Speaker 2: But even by women have this. By women still feel

688
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 2: some sort of responsibility to morph themselves into what would

689
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 2: be attractive to the male gays. Lesbians, in particular, lesbians

690
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 2: who realized they were lesbian young appear to have to

691
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 2: me from all the women I know who are lesbians,

692
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 2: who have always known they are lesbians or from when

693
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: they were very young children, is they have grown into

694
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 2: the person they were always supposed to be so much

695
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 2: faster than straight and by ways that I know, And

696
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: I feel as though all women should be raised in

697
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 2: a commune of lesbians.

698
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: There we are because they nailed it.

699
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 2: Because without the male, gaye is the only way you're

700
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 2: going to learn who you really are. And these women

701
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: were so self actualized and so joyous and so unapologetic,

702
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 2: and it just made me very happy and very sad

703
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,439
Speaker 2: all at the same time to think of how many

704
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 2: of my friends reduced themselves even when there are no

705
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: men present. Because if you do that enough in your

706
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: entire life, if you make yourself small for long enough,

707
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: it's a kind of defe fault setting. And it's only

708
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 2: in tiny bursts of one on one contact with another

709
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,479
Speaker 2: woman that you might let out some of your true

710
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: inner goblin. And that's devastating. So even when women are

711
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 2: in a crowd, they're just still in a group together.

712
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 2: They're still hiding parts themselves from themselves. Women don't know

713
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: how funny they are to themselves. They don't know how

714
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 2: smart they are, how capable, how opinionated they actually are,

715
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 2: because they're self censoring. And so my life is about

716
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 2: no longer self censoring, figuring out who I am, removing

717
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: the mask, and encouraging other women to do the same.

718
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 1: And you're also saying, going go to more lesbian parties.

719
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: I'm hearing.

720
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 2: And here I was talking recently with an older woman,

721
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: you know, who's my kind of go to crone, about

722
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 2: the rise of the four B movement. You know, this

723
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: is I think it started in Korea, right South Korea,

724
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: where women are kind of moving into communes with one

725
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: another handling.

726
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: It's happening all over the world men, and now that's.

727
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: Happening all over the world. Saying that to her, and

728
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 2: she said, what do you think convents really were? And

729
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 2: it hadn't really occurred to me.

730
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: She was like it was.

731
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 2: She was like, making it about God was the only

732
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: way to make that socially acceptable for women to go,

733
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,439
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm so fucking done with men. Yeah,

734
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: I'm just going to piss off here to this just

735
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 2: wonderful commune of women and we'll all wear the same

736
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 2: outfit and whatever and just live in peace, and it

737
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 2: will be a comfortable outfit, peace and ease, peace and

738
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: ease and safety. And they've made themselves because of the

739
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 2: you know, you know, because of God, untouchable, and so

740
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 2: they were generally left alone. And so I realized and

741
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 2: it hadn't for some reason, it had never occurred to me.

742
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 2: I really looked at it just as a religious thing,

743
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,919
Speaker 2: and they were like, She was like, no, like that's

744
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 2: something that we did to get away from.

745
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 1: Them, exactly exactly. Oh, it's so good and I'm glad

746
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: we agree on this. My lesbian group of friends, we

747
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: always are talking about where where are we going to

748
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: buy just a whole compound of all of us just

749
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: to go live in peace because we need it especially

750
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: right now.

751
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

752
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: But I will say this, I for for those of

753
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: you who don't know about your podcast, Wrong Turns. It

754
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: is fucking hilarious. And before we run out of time,

755
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: I really want you to talk about your podcast because

756
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: it's so different in the landscape now of everyone and

757
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 1: everyone has podcasts everyone, But what I love is like

758
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: yours is light and it's like it's so tastefully done

759
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: in a way that's so in your fucking face. I

760
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: really want you to talk about why you chose to

761
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: do it, what you know. Our viewers and listeners maybe

762
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: have never tuned in. They should. It's called Wrong Turns,

763
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: but tell us about the podcast and why.

764
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 2: It's sort of it goes in line with what I'm saying,

765
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 2: but also is nothing like how I am. I guess

766
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: in my kind of day to day version of me

767
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 2: that people know, which is that I talk a lot

768
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 2: about very serious things and social structures, et cetera, and

769
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: wrong t is my kind of escape from that, to

770
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 2: exist only in the absurd and silly. So it's a

771
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: comedy disaster podcast about all the most embarrassing shit we've

772
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 2: ever done, or ever created or experienced that has no

773
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 2: great silver lining. There's no inspiring pearl of wisdom shoved

774
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: up your ass at the end of a disaster story.

775
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: It's just unabashed mortification. And it's the podcast. Our tagline

776
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 2: is It's where dignity goes to die. And where it

777
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 2: really falls in line with everything I stand for is

778
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 2: it's me and all of these other brilliant people, just

779
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: without shame, telling the truth about what appalling little gremlins

780
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 2: we all really are. And it's been so liberating to

781
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 2: say so many humiliating stories out loud in the public

782
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 2: and just have them live there and have people and

783
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: women in particular bond back to me and relate to

784
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 2: what I've said and the humiliating things I've done or undergone.

785
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: And so it's a very bonding podcast where you will

786
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 2: feel less alone in the mistakes you've made, in the

787
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 2: terrible things you have experienced. It's very trauma free, it's

788
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 2: very very silly, very surviceable, and it's a kind of

789
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 2: it's just a thirty five minute escape every Thursday from

790
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: this dumpster fire earth where you can just laugh and

791
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 2: enjoy the world for a second and feel less alone.

792
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 2: I think, you know, it goes against perfection culture, it

793
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: goes against inspiration culture with anti inspiration pro commiseration, and

794
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 2: I think it's just this much needed respite. IM always

795
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 2: thinking about what I need in the world, and then

796
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 2: when I can't find it, I make it. I love it,

797
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 2: and so this was just something that I needed as

798
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: an outlet, and people seem to really enjoy it, so

799
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 2: it's nice.

800
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: It is exactly what we need right now. So thank

801
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: you for being the education piece, but also the lateness,

802
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 1: like it's just really beautifully done, and more people need

803
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 1: to tune in, so every one out there turn into

804
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 1: Wrong Turns because it is absolutely an incredible podcast. And

805
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 1: I'm curious for a woman who does so fucking much,

806
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: I can't imagine you even have time to do anything enjoyable.

807
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: But what's next for you?

808
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't I don't think I want

809
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 2: to do very much anymore. I think I think I

810
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 2: think i'd like to rest. I'm writing, I'm writing a

811
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 2: film and a TV show and toying with a book.

812
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 2: I write on substack. I write very, very very blunt

813
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 2: essays on substack, all the things that I'm not allowed

814
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: to say on social media. It's so good i'll get

815
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 2: blocked by the algorithm. It's called a low desire to please,

816
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 2: which is a review that my dog got from a

817
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 2: training school. They said he's very smart, but he has

818
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: a low desire to please, And I think, oh, fuck

819
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 2: at that is that my little That's a feminist slogan.

820
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: Yes, it's exactly how I feel.

821
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: I have a low desire to please. I've written a

822
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: very unapologetic substact that you can read every week. But

823
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 2: I think I want to spend more time living with

824
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: my loved one, spending time with my dogs, enjoying what's

825
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 2: left of the freedom of the earth, and seeing things

826
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 2: in the world of putting the sun on my skin.

827
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 2: I don't know about you. I don't feel terribly ambitious

828
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 2: when it comes to projects. I feel very ambitious when

829
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 2: it comes to getting the word out there to the world.

830
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 2: But I also feel very inclined to practice what I preach,

831
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 2: which is that as women, we have suffered enough and

832
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 2: the world is horrible and we must seek that pleasure.

833
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: So I, personally, for now anyway, I'm on a mission

834
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: to pleasure before the hot flushes start.

835
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: Yes, and I'm with you, I'm like, what are we

836
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: about to get into?

837
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 2: I have no more desire to really achieve anything now.

838
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: I just want to have fun. Let's do that feels

839
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 2: That feels like I don't know sacrilege to say, but

840
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 2: I but you know, we need balance in this world,

841
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 2: and if I'm going to fight the fight, I need.

842
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 1: To also need balance, especially right now. And I appreciate

843
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: what you how you show up in this world and

844
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: bringing everyone with you and giving people permission to live

845
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: life this way through this lens.

846
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 2: Well, likewise. Likewise, you face so much misogyny and so

847
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 2: much shit also from other women who have been indoctrinated

848
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: by misogyny. And I really appreciate the way that you

849
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 2: show up publicly and what you do with your platform

850
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 2: like that, what you do is not easier. And then

851
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 2: you've also been putting your body on the line, you know,

852
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 2: So it's a three to sixty years oult. And I

853
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 2: really appreciate humans like you for doing what you do

854
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 2: and making a statement out of it, because you have

855
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 2: clearly inspired so many young women and all of it.

856
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but for me, all of

857
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 2: the shit becomes worth it if I can turn it

858
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 2: into goals for someone else. Yes, that part and part

859
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 2: that's the power of women. That's the magic of women.

860
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 2: And that's why they're trying so hard to destroy us,

861
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 2: because we're so good, we're so wholesome, we're so strong,

862
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 2: we're so powerful, we're so intuitive. You only ever seek

863
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: to destroy something you're terrified of. If they didn't think

864
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 2: we were a threat, they would leave us alone. They

865
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 2: are going above and beyond and so far out of

866
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 2: their way to hold us back and subjugate us because

867
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 2: they're terrified, yes, of what would happen if we actually

868
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 2: stopped thinking about our skincare and our weight and our

869
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 2: age and actually started to go after what we want

870
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: in this world, and so to do it out of spite.

871
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 1: You are always dropping bombs.

872
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 2: I love it.

873
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the show this week.

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00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: Thank you for being vulnerable and wide Open and most

875
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: importantly yourself. And I appreciate the fight, the good fight

876
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: that you choose to do every day in the way

877
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: you show up so I see.

878
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: You on the phone line. Mate.

879
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: If we out listen, we will be holding hands on

880
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: the front line. We will not stop. And I think

881
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,720
Speaker 1: that's what makes us unique and special and I appreciate

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00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: you taking the time today we all do. Thank you

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00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 1: everyone for tuning in to another episode of Wide Open,

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00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next week. Wide Open with Ashlin

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00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: Harris is an iHeart women's sports production. You can find

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00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen Borca Correo, Emily Maronov,

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00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive

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00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our

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00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder and I'm your

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00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: host Ashlyn Harris.