Speaker 1: First of all, you don't know me. Were all about
Speaker 1: that high school drama, Girl drama girl, all about them
Speaker 1: high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in
Speaker 1: our comic girl cheering for the drama, Queen's Girl Fashion,
Speaker 1: but your tough girl, you could sit with us girl Drama,
Speaker 1: Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama, John McQueen's Drama, Queen's Guys.
Speaker 1: I want to light a candle as a cleanse because
Speaker 1: we got rid of some bad energy and we got
Speaker 1: our show back. I'm telling you, that's the best Halloween
Speaker 1: you we could have ever gotten. Is this spiritually clean
Speaker 1: one Tree episode. I love this episode. This episode. This
Speaker 1: episode had the same kind of like magic. Remember when
Speaker 1: we all cried in the beginning when we first watched
Speaker 1: the episode where Lucas turns to Peyton and go, hey,
Speaker 1: your art matters. It's what got here. Yeah, like we
Speaker 1: got our guy back. Yeah we did this was we
Speaker 1: got our show back. I mean this was definitely back
Speaker 1: to echoing the first episode, echoing the pilot. Well, we
Speaker 1: had two major factors here, actually three major factors here
Speaker 1: that were fantastic, and we'll dig into all of them.
Speaker 1: Director tom Wright is a favorite of ours. Um, we
Speaker 1: had a female screenwriter, Harry Karen. You can tell a
Speaker 1: woman had her hands all over this. This is a
Speaker 1: good Karen, everybody we love her, my god. And the
Speaker 1: third is that Chad acted his ass off in this episode.
Speaker 1: So good and so good. Yeah, and so we're going
Speaker 1: to dig into all of that joy, Why don't you
Speaker 1: give us the rundown? Give us the episode nine day? Okay?
Speaker 1: So so episode nineteen we have the title which is
Speaker 1: how can you be sure? It was a four? And Um,
Speaker 1: the synaptas that we have so history seems to be
Speaker 1: repeating itself in Tree Hill, Lucas has just learned that
Speaker 1: Brooke may be pregnant and it's a big deal. They're
Speaker 1: trying to make a decision about their future. What are
Speaker 1: they gonna do? Um? Brooke is really stressed out, doesn't
Speaker 1: know who to go to. She seems constantly alone and
Speaker 1: trying to figure out where answers are. Meanwhile, um, there's
Speaker 1: a there's a lot to catch up on with Karen
Speaker 1: and Keith and his proposal, and also this episode is
Speaker 1: big time about the s c X with Nathan and
Speaker 1: a and the tattoo and the tattoo. There's so much
Speaker 1: to cover here, and I love the way all of
Speaker 1: it was handled. I am in love with this episode.
Speaker 1: This was delicious. Can we talk about the elephant in
Speaker 1: the room. Yeah, let's talk about the elephant in the
Speaker 1: room because we're gonna have fun on this episode. Guys,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be a long one. Elephant in the
Speaker 1: room is that we caught so much for talking about
Speaker 1: like Lucas's character in a judgmental light because we didn't
Speaker 1: like the Carousel episode. That one was that it was
Speaker 1: real Theirst episode and the feedback we got one like
Speaker 1: we tried to laugh a lot of it off together. Um,
Speaker 1: but there was some of it that were really angry.
Speaker 1: That was nuts. But it was like you know, allowed,
Speaker 1: allowed minority. Uh, there were some people who specifically came
Speaker 1: at Sophia in a way that we're not going to
Speaker 1: do that folks had. It was pretty gnarly, like girlsscreen
Speaker 1: grab things. I'll send it to you. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: The violence the verbal violence that well, and something I
Speaker 1: think is important for us to highlight to Like, I've
Speaker 1: really spent a long time thinking about this because I
Speaker 1: read something that like, as you know, made me unable
Speaker 1: to sleep for days. I only know how to make
Speaker 1: sense of things that are very emotionally hard and triggering,
Speaker 1: whether it's for me or for you guys. By the way,
Speaker 1: y'all read the news like you know what happened to
Speaker 1: us on this show, and I only know how to
Speaker 1: make sense of that stuff by like leaning into data.
Speaker 1: It's why I know a lot about statistics. That's why
Speaker 1: I know a lot about you know, by what age
Speaker 1: most women have experienced sexual harassment or assault. It's I've
Speaker 1: had to learn about it to understand how it happened
Speaker 1: to us, because we were smart girls, indeed, and like
Speaker 1: for us to go, oh wow, we can see that
Speaker 1: a grown man who treated all of us that way
Speaker 1: in that episode in particular, wrote himself and his like
Speaker 1: fantasies for gross male behavior into a character who we love,
Speaker 1: who's a sixteen year old by the way, yes, like
Speaker 1: it's okay for us not to like that, and like,
Speaker 1: oh god, I'm like my chest is like shaking thinking
Speaker 1: about this. Like, guys, we don't want to talk about him,
Speaker 1: but we hated what they made Lucas do in that
Speaker 1: episode because it reminded us of a man who abused
Speaker 1: a lot of us and two then as as I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm trying to make sense of it with
Speaker 1: this that and the other have like fans sending me
Speaker 1: tweets from other fans saying like, Sophia is such a
Speaker 1: militant bitch. We can't wait for her fiance to realize
Speaker 1: this and leave her like whoa you guys, well, and
Speaker 1: it just kind of defeats the purpose of a rewatch
Speaker 1: because we have such a delicious episode this week, and
Speaker 1: we couldn't enjoy it in the way that we do
Speaker 1: if we didn't criticize the stuff that was bad. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's gonna be both kids. Let's
Speaker 1: all hang on for the ride, and we all remember
Speaker 1: Lucas as the Lucas in this episode, as a good
Speaker 1: guy who showed up for people. And so for us
Speaker 1: to realize that there was a period of time where
Speaker 1: the writers wrote him to start the between us, we
Speaker 1: didn't remember that. It's blowing our minds and ps, we
Speaker 1: have a right to have our minds. Bum kids. Let's
Speaker 1: all hang something that I also think is really important.
Speaker 1: You know that Hillary, you and I have talked a
Speaker 1: lot about and enjoy you certainly witnessed for us, like
Speaker 1: Haley and Nathan started off as very beloved, but Brooke
Speaker 1: and Peyton as characters were pitted against each other. And guys,
Speaker 1: Hillary and I've spent eighteen years getting bullied about like
Speaker 1: being bad team Brooke, Team Brooke, we hate Peyton, were
Speaker 1: team Brook. It's so intense for us, and so don't like,
Speaker 1: please just remember we haven't seen this show in eighteen years.
Speaker 1: We remember Lucas as the Lucas in this episode, a
Speaker 1: good friend. He shows up and who talks and who listens,
Speaker 1: and so for us, it was really mind blowing to
Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, he was he was playing
Speaker 1: these girls like it was a revelation to me and
Speaker 1: like hold on a second. Yeah, So like just let
Speaker 1: us feel our feelings please, and God bless us, big,
Speaker 1: God bless us, God bless us. We learned so much
Speaker 1: in this first season and we had such good people
Speaker 1: affiliated with this specific episode. It was Moira heavy, it
Speaker 1: was tom Right heavy. It was a female voice writing
Speaker 1: these monologues for these boys, Nathan and Lucas and Dann.
Speaker 1: Great revelations from Dan in this episode. Two Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: Joy get into it. So let's start with the Karen,
Speaker 1: the Karen and Keith, Karen and Keith. Okay, so that yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a pickup that Keith proposed at the end
Speaker 1: of the last episode. And uh wow, I it got
Speaker 1: me thinking when Lucas went to talk to Keith when
Speaker 1: Lucas was making his rounds, because in this episode, Lucas
Speaker 1: just apparently drove around everybody's else. But when you're like anxious,
Speaker 1: when you're anxious, you're like, I'm gonna talk to everybody. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was great. So but when he was talking with Keith,
Speaker 1: Keith was talking about how, um, how he knew Lucas
Speaker 1: when he was a baby and why he stuck around
Speaker 1: when Karen was pregnant, and it made me think about
Speaker 1: how long they had known each other. Really wow, why
Speaker 1: did it take so long for Keith to make a
Speaker 1: move with Karen. It feels like it could have happened
Speaker 1: a lot earlier, but they got into this zone of
Speaker 1: comfort of a friendship, and I guess maybe it's hard
Speaker 1: to move past that once you are in that zone. Um,
Speaker 1: but it it hurt my heart so much for Keith,
Speaker 1: and and I really thought Karen did love him and
Speaker 1: feel those feelings for him, but I guess I guess not.
Speaker 1: So Karen says, I had to go find the rest
Speaker 1: of me. Oh, I've got to find the rest of me. Guys,
Speaker 1: when when we watched that the three of us went,
Speaker 1: it's such a profound moment for her, And again, what
Speaker 1: a testament to Karen USh Or the writer of this episode,
Speaker 1: who who gave us a deeper perspective on everyone's feeling
Speaker 1: and motivations and the things people were struggling with. But
Speaker 1: certainly for so many of the women on screen to
Speaker 1: talk about their identities, you know, for Karen to say,
Speaker 1: I've only ever known myself as Lucas's mother. This was
Speaker 1: my first time being alone and I want to find
Speaker 1: out who else I am. I mean, the world's a
Speaker 1: bigger place than Tree Hill. Yeah, it's so tough, But also, look,
Speaker 1: you can say that for your whole life. You can
Speaker 1: put off every new, challenging experience by saying something like that. Also,
Speaker 1: so there's another side to this. It's not just to
Speaker 1: say I need to find myself. There's an element of like,
Speaker 1: she's just not that into you in that statement, because
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, if if you want
Speaker 1: to find yourself, you can also do that in the
Speaker 1: context of a relationship that's going to challenge you and
Speaker 1: teach you how to grow in lots of new do
Speaker 1: it together. You could do it together. We could go
Speaker 1: to Italy together. But then we wouldn't have TV drama,
Speaker 1: right corse And also, you know, it's a whammy at
Speaker 1: the end. Then when she's given Keith this kind of
Speaker 1: um gentle letdown and he's like, you know what, You're right,
Speaker 1: there is a bigger world, and I'm out. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: don't know that Karen would have anticipated that, because in
Speaker 1: her mind when she delivers all that, she's like, your home.
Speaker 1: I want to go out and explore, you know, and
Speaker 1: I can't really do that if I'm anchored to this
Speaker 1: place and to you. And so then for him to
Speaker 1: uproot unexpectedly is like, oh, you were willing to do that? Like,
Speaker 1: that's not anything I would have anticipated. I get it, though,
Speaker 1: if you he stuck around for sixteen years, probably in
Speaker 1: hopes that this moment would finally arrive and he would
Speaker 1: finally get the courage. And I love that he admitted
Speaker 1: that too, Debb. He said, I've thought about this, Yes,
Speaker 1: I've imagined this moment and how it would go, and
Speaker 1: how she'd say yes for fifteen years, sex teen years
Speaker 1: and I never thought she'd say no. And to find
Speaker 1: out you spent It's not that any of that time
Speaker 1: was wasted at all, but to realize, like, oh, I've
Speaker 1: been there's been a goal I've been working towards that
Speaker 1: was never a real thing. I have to I have
Speaker 1: to go now. There's kind of no other option. How
Speaker 1: do you just keep sticking around like knocking at the
Speaker 1: door when you know the answers? Now, I like fresh starts.
Speaker 1: I like pause and then play again. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean that that pause button is an important thing
Speaker 1: in life, and I feel like we've all done that professionally.
Speaker 1: We've taken time off work for a little while, or
Speaker 1: we've all moved out to places where we have bee hives,
Speaker 1: you know, and like that that pause and restart moment
Speaker 1: in a person's life is really important because it's like,
Speaker 1: we go through school, we do what everyone tells us
Speaker 1: to do. We've got this chunk of our twenties who
Speaker 1: were trying to figure it out, and then you do
Speaker 1: you hit this plateau in your thirties where you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: what the hell else am I supposed to do, like
Speaker 1: I don't know, and and so they're both at that
Speaker 1: pause and restart moment and it's sad that they're not
Speaker 1: doing it together. But I don't know. Guys. Every time
Speaker 1: I see Keith and and dev together, I'm like, I know,
Speaker 1: definitely some heat. It's sparkly when they're together. I loved
Speaker 1: her hair, by the way, I loved her hair in
Speaker 1: this that lit half up to Oh that was it.
Speaker 1: That was the win. Barbe was on full display. Man,
Speaker 1: She's it's post divorce hot. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like, Oh, I'm gonna make him pay for this.
Speaker 1: Oh you're coming over, I'll just be working out well.
Speaker 1: I think did anyone know when Dan was going to
Speaker 1: show up? Because we laughed about that too. So the
Speaker 1: whole time, the whole episode, Dan is just popping in places,
Speaker 1: popping into Damn's house, ding like he's just popping in.
Speaker 1: He's always driving by at an opportune moment. Guys, it's
Speaker 1: got to be a horreddit Harry Tree because Lucas is
Speaker 1: doing the same thing in this episode. It's just like,
Speaker 1: I'm a hamster on a wheel and I've got to
Speaker 1: pop in all these places. But it works. It really works,
Speaker 1: and I think it gave us a device. You know.
Speaker 1: One of the things we were talking about when we
Speaker 1: were watching is like, and I know we've mentioned this
Speaker 1: to you guys before, but the folks we don't want
Speaker 1: to talk about who were in charge of the writer's room. Um,
Speaker 1: we're really active on those message boards that all our
Speaker 1: fans were active on. You guys made such a difference,
Speaker 1: you did because you guys, if you recall those who
Speaker 1: watched the show in no time, you did protest the
Speaker 1: Carousel episode, y'all didn't like it either, and they heard it.
Speaker 1: And so what was so cool in this? It almost
Speaker 1: felt like Karen came in as a woman the writer,
Speaker 1: you know, not not Meyer's character. I guess I should
Speaker 1: be clear. Karen the writer came in and was like,
Speaker 1: let's get the show back on track, and basically gave
Speaker 1: in the most beautiful and un obvious way, gave Lucas
Speaker 1: a device to go around and apologize for his bad
Speaker 1: behavior and have that beautiful experience of growth. They pulled
Speaker 1: him back over the precipice of becoming a guy and
Speaker 1: he had, Yeah, he had this awakening and he reconnected
Speaker 1: with his empathy, and he went around and they made
Speaker 1: very clear to all the fans like we're going to
Speaker 1: fix this and we're going to figure back and we're
Speaker 1: gonna don't worry. We hear you. And honestly, I love
Speaker 1: that our fans are the best fans because they were like,
Speaker 1: where has our show gone? But this was so much
Speaker 1: about Nathan and Lucas really trying to do their best
Speaker 1: and be good guys and be the best version of
Speaker 1: themselves in all in both of their respective um scenarios.
Speaker 1: You know, Nathan not wanting to put pressure on Haley
Speaker 1: to have sex, and I love even I loved how
Speaker 1: the storylines crossed over and the conversations that Lucas and
Speaker 1: Nathan had in the locker room, even though it was
Speaker 1: that fight was so good. It was so good. And
Speaker 1: you know what I loved in that locker rooms seen
Speaker 1: Tom did such a good job directing the boys together
Speaker 1: because you realize that Lucas is coming in hot over,
Speaker 1: did Nathan betray Haley? Also? I have feelings for Peyton.
Speaker 1: Also I've blown up my whole life. And then Nathan
Speaker 1: when he goes, why are you so tweaked? And you
Speaker 1: can see it like Chad played the recognition of oh yeah,
Speaker 1: like I'm really I'm really coming out sideways here and
Speaker 1: I need to get my head on straight. And and
Speaker 1: it's this episode where both of these boys are implementing
Speaker 1: the lessons they've been learning through this season. They're going, Okay,
Speaker 1: I know better, I have to do better. How do
Speaker 1: I do that? And to watch boys learn that on
Speaker 1: screen in real time isn't something we got a lot of.
Speaker 1: And it's beautiful. Yeah, so a woman talking about boy characters.
Speaker 1: It was. It was so obvious in this joy. Let's
Speaker 1: go back to the Hailey wake and Nathan up scene
Speaker 1: because when we were all super pop for nipple Ring,
Speaker 1: but to hear this drumbeat over and over and over again,
Speaker 1: I don't want to pressure you. You know, we weren't
Speaker 1: talking about consent in two thousand three, right, that was
Speaker 1: not a conversation station or two thousand four whenever. The
Speaker 1: how we did this um was was Nathan's stance on that. Like,
Speaker 1: what were your thoughts about it while you guys were
Speaker 1: filming it? Because it is a constant drum beat the
Speaker 1: whole episode. Yeah, I and I I don't know. For me,
Speaker 1: I loved seeing that conversation happening on television with young
Speaker 1: kids in this adrange, and especially with a kid like
Speaker 1: Nathan who had clearly been around and had been actively,
Speaker 1: very active, and um, it was just like something you do,
Speaker 1: and that he has fallen in love and his feelings
Speaker 1: are now caught up and he has so much respect
Speaker 1: for her. It's not just like a girl is a
Speaker 1: thing for me to play with until I'm done and
Speaker 1: bored and moving on to the next person. Um, this
Speaker 1: is he's he's respecting her and seeing her as a
Speaker 1: whole person. And that is something to to model to
Speaker 1: young women that they deserve a man that treats them
Speaker 1: like that or a boy that treats them like that,
Speaker 1: and to model to young men as well that a girl,
Speaker 1: a woman is a whole being. She's not just something
Speaker 1: to play with, you know. So And at that age, God,
Speaker 1: your hormones and sex is such a intimate tender and
Speaker 1: it's the most intimate tender, you know, emotional thing, and
Speaker 1: you're exploring all these new things when you're that age.
Speaker 1: It's just such a sensitive topic. It's such a sensitive
Speaker 1: thing that that I thought they handle it so well.
Speaker 1: I loved that Nathan just wanted to make sure that
Speaker 1: she was looking at herself and Lucas. By the way,
Speaker 1: the conversation that Haley has with Lucas in the cafe,
Speaker 1: in the cafe, yes, and he says, if you're not ready,
Speaker 1: just wait. And what was the other thing he said, Hillary,
Speaker 1: look past the moment. Yeah. Both boys say over and
Speaker 1: over and over again to her, like, in different words,
Speaker 1: look past the immediate moment, like think about this long
Speaker 1: term and and and Nathan says that in the way
Speaker 1: he's weirded out about the tattoo here it's a forever thing.
Speaker 1: Lucas also said, I wish I had waited. Yeah, oh
Speaker 1: my dad line, do you hear a boy say that?
Speaker 1: That really got me because we never heard boys say that.
Speaker 1: And what I thought was so interesting is in the
Speaker 1: last episode Nathan and Peyton have had this really kind
Speaker 1: exchange about their history, and then for Nathan to say,
Speaker 1: I really don't want to pressure you, and for Lucas
Speaker 1: to say, I wish I had waited, Like those were
Speaker 1: foreign concepts to the way boys were talking on screen,
Speaker 1: and what I thought was really beautiful and even how
Speaker 1: our boys were talking three episodes before yeah, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: they were having sex in public, and now it's like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, that there are consequences to this, and
Speaker 1: what I thought was beautiful, especially given the way both
Speaker 1: brothers are coming at this from their perspective. Is it
Speaker 1: actually because of how honest and vulnerable it was. It
Speaker 1: gave Haley away enjoy. You played this so beautifully. Where
Speaker 1: it wasn't this like preachy black and white girls don't
Speaker 1: want to have sex and boys pressure them. It was like,
Speaker 1: I'm in love with him, and I am turned on
Speaker 1: by him, and I do have feelings for him, and
Speaker 1: I do want to make out with him all the time,
Speaker 1: and I can't stop thinking about him when I'm not
Speaker 1: with him, But then when we're hooking up, I also
Speaker 1: I want to stop. I don't feel ready. I hit
Speaker 1: a wall. I had never seen the fullness of all
Speaker 1: the feelings you're feeling that yes, but no, I'm scared.
Speaker 1: I want to. I don't want to. I don't know
Speaker 1: what to do. I hadn't seen that represented like this,
Speaker 1: and and to see it in that, And I don't
Speaker 1: mean a love triangle, in the triangle of these relationships
Speaker 1: with her boyfriend and her best friend who's a guy.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was so tender and beautiful and good.
Speaker 1: I thought so too. I loved being able to show
Speaker 1: that you can. It's okay too to acknowledge your feelings,
Speaker 1: and it's okay to acknowledge what your boundaries are, and
Speaker 1: you don't have to understand them all and you don't
Speaker 1: have to argue them away or talk yourself into or
Speaker 1: out of them if you're not ready. Just wait, joy,
Speaker 1: Did you ever have those conversations in real life? Oh? Sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I definitely did with boys that I dated.
Speaker 1: I mean I definitely was a late I mean I
Speaker 1: hate even the term late bloomer because there's just so
Speaker 1: right school. But like, I definitely waited a long time. Um,
Speaker 1: I was out of high school and uh, and I
Speaker 1: um dated lots of guys. I was living in New
Speaker 1: York City and I would date and yeah, I would
Speaker 1: get to a point where I was like, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not I don't want to have sex. I'm just
Speaker 1: not ready. And some guys are cool and stick around
Speaker 1: for a little longer, and then eventually, like we just
Speaker 1: kind of fizzle out. And then some of them were like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's great, that's fine for you, but I'm
Speaker 1: not doing that so by and then that's fine too.
Speaker 1: I mean it kind of hurts you go home and
Speaker 1: cry and eats my screen, But it's a way to
Speaker 1: weed out the assholes, you know what it is? It
Speaker 1: really yeah, it really is. So even if you're ready
Speaker 1: to just say that you're not for a little while,
Speaker 1: just to like weed out any assholes. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's what Taylor tom Winson always jokes about. She's like,
Speaker 1: I say, oh, I'm not ready as a test, and
Speaker 1: then they're like, that's cool, we can wait, and I say, Charlie,
Speaker 1: you've won. It's one of my favorite jokes and are special.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love that. But you're right, somebody
Speaker 1: who won't risk back your boundaries, that's a sign that
Speaker 1: they don't they If they can't respect your boundaries, they
Speaker 1: can't fully respect you. So it is good. It's it's
Speaker 1: good to be honest about how you feel. And watching
Speaker 1: you do it in this episode was so good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a loaded topic, but I love the
Speaker 1: way we handled it, and I also there was one
Speaker 1: more thing that I wanted to say about all of
Speaker 1: these storylines wrapped up, especially with the teenagers. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: We've got Jake with Um, a baby with Nikki who
Speaker 1: is like a wreck and seemingly sincere trying to figure
Speaker 1: her way through, and maybe she really is sincere. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are a mess. They're sincere
Speaker 1: in the moment, and then they come up against their
Speaker 1: own blocks to you. We've got Brooke dealing with Um
Speaker 1: the serious sincere pregnancy scare and then finding out that
Speaker 1: she's not pregnant the exact moment that Lucas calls her
Speaker 1: a slut and uh, and she makes the decision to
Speaker 1: sort of give him a taste of his own medicine,
Speaker 1: which I was totally fine with, And we got out
Speaker 1: Lucas walking through his fears and anxieties. What am I
Speaker 1: going to do? What am I gonna do? Um? And
Speaker 1: Nathan and Haley and the tattoo and the sex and
Speaker 1: in no way and through all of this mess was
Speaker 1: there any shame. And I love seeing people be able
Speaker 1: to be messy and walk each other through it and
Speaker 1: hold hands and there was no shame. It was so
Speaker 1: beautiful to see that even though people weren't always making
Speaker 1: great decisions, there was still forgiveness and space and like
Speaker 1: love on the other side of it. So I just
Speaker 1: want to say that I was really proud of our
Speaker 1: team for creating that. Yeah, I think we are so
Speaker 1: lucky that we had Karen Ushert and Tom right at
Speaker 1: the head of this, because they were two people who
Speaker 1: always brought the best feelings and the most intimacy. And
Speaker 1: I mean, Hillary, you said it earlier, like Chad acted
Speaker 1: his ass off in this, also asked James and and
Speaker 1: those two people at the Helm gave the boys space
Speaker 1: to be more than typical male archetypes. They pushed them
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable and and look how and the boys
Speaker 1: loved it, Like look how beautifully they did it, and
Speaker 1: then we all got to do it like uh, it
Speaker 1: was like everyone was their most um, you know, they're
Speaker 1: most and yeah, just willing to put it all on
Speaker 1: the table. And I agree, I'm just proud of us.
Speaker 1: Well let's look, let's look at that a little bit
Speaker 1: because this was the first season of our show. When
Speaker 1: we filmed this, only like half the first season had
Speaker 1: come out at this point, and so visiting directors, like
Speaker 1: visiting people the writer's room, they didn't know us, they
Speaker 1: didn't know what we were capable of. You know, I'd
Speaker 1: been a VJ. You know, Chad had been like the
Speaker 1: bad guy on Dawson's Creek, so it would make sense
Speaker 1: that visiting directors would be like, oh, you know what
Speaker 1: he's good at smoldering. You know, let's get to do that.
Speaker 1: You know, they didn't know us, and so when we
Speaker 1: finally started to get people that knew us and thought
Speaker 1: you can do more, you know, that's when we really
Speaker 1: were able to start turning in performances that were risky
Speaker 1: maybe and stretched the perception. Like this episode for me
Speaker 1: personally was hard to watch because I have a preteen
Speaker 1: son and we just walked through the city and he
Speaker 1: held my hand for a little while and then like
Speaker 1: and then let at a crosswalk. He was like, I'm
Speaker 1: holding my mom's hand. What am I doing? Oh baby,
Speaker 1: He'll still like lay in my lap, but then he
Speaker 1: remembers like, oh, I have like a mustache. You know,
Speaker 1: like we're right on that cusp. And so to see
Speaker 1: Lucas rebuff his mother and lie to his mother and
Speaker 1: you know game his mother in some of these past episodes,
Speaker 1: and then to really need his mother in this episode
Speaker 1: and cry with his mother, Um, those two together were
Speaker 1: so so it. In this episode, that scene. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: the scene where Chad was I mean the whole episode,
Speaker 1: he played this scared little boy thing so well toned,
Speaker 1: so well. Um, that scene with with Moira, that's got
Speaker 1: to be like when we talked to Chad, we have
Speaker 1: to ask him about that scene because that's got to
Speaker 1: be a career highlight for him. I mean, she's she's
Speaker 1: such an icon and to be able to really do
Speaker 1: a real we're not just talking about like chit chat.
Speaker 1: This isn't just like hey mom, I'm home. This is
Speaker 1: real deep stuff. Um, And to be able to play
Speaker 1: that with such a formidable actress must have been really
Speaker 1: exciting for him. So I can't wait to ask him
Speaker 1: about that at something because it was intimidating. That was like,
Speaker 1: you know, you're going in with somebody with all the
Speaker 1: tools and how do you keep up well? And something
Speaker 1: I loved about it too Moira And again, what space
Speaker 1: they were given with that writing that that Moira's reaction,
Speaker 1: you know, as Karen as it's script did, is that
Speaker 1: she slaps him and then they run into his room
Speaker 1: and it's his childhood room and you do realize that
Speaker 1: this is a little boy And Hillary, you said something
Speaker 1: really interesting when we were watching the episode. And again,
Speaker 1: this is what Karen gave us as a writer. That
Speaker 1: Brooke stabbing back at Lucas when he stabs her in
Speaker 1: a way gave us Lucas back because it shook him
Speaker 1: out of his I'm out experimenting and and it's like
Speaker 1: it shakes him out of the reverie, out of that JR.
Speaker 1: It's so intense. I remember when I read that and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh God, this isn't this is a
Speaker 1: lot um. But it's so good because in a way,
Speaker 1: it's like he snaps out of the popular kid dream
Speaker 1: and he's a kid again. Yeah, that's it. And and
Speaker 1: to watch them in his childhood bedroom with like that
Speaker 1: desk that he's probably had since he was ten, and
Speaker 1: and and more. Era delivers that performance where she's saying
Speaker 1: I'm just so scared for you, you know, and and
Speaker 1: asks how Brooke is like when have we ever seen
Speaker 1: a mom of a boy do that? And say she
Speaker 1: must be so scared. Karen is so clearly terrified for
Speaker 1: these kids, and it it's a perspective I haven't really
Speaker 1: seen when when there's when there's something where parents are
Speaker 1: talking about teen pregnancy, and her fear let Lucas be
Speaker 1: a little boy again, and it was just ah, it
Speaker 1: was really amazing. What's good about this? It made him
Speaker 1: so Look, we all watched the episode. We know what
Speaker 1: the end story is. Brooke. It was a false alarm, right,
Speaker 1: the sentiment of um, oh, if you told me the truth,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have had to admit this to my mother
Speaker 1: and my father and my you know, like my friend.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't had to tell everybody about this. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have gon to Jake. If you told me the truth.
Speaker 1: It was a catalyst for Lucas to get his together
Speaker 1: and to do the right thing, voluntarily volunteered it. He
Speaker 1: could have kept this a secret for another couple of months,
Speaker 1: you know, because Brooke wouldn't have shown for like another
Speaker 1: three or four months. Totally could have kept it a secret,
Speaker 1: could have played you know, I don't know what's going on. Um. Instead,
Speaker 1: he gets right in there right away, and it's like,
Speaker 1: we got to figure this out because his identity of
Speaker 1: being an unwanted child is so triggering in this moment um,
Speaker 1: the conversations that he had with Dan and then Brooke
Speaker 1: having called him Danny Jr. Let's get into that. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about Dan. You know what I think is really
Speaker 1: important because and we we've talked about this offline, the
Speaker 1: three of us, that this is the Lucas we look
Speaker 1: back on. This is the guy we've always remembered and
Speaker 1: lionized show. Yeah, like, this is our good guy, who's
Speaker 1: our empathetic leader, who's the author, who writes the sense
Speaker 1: of he's playing, he's endgame and and so one of
Speaker 1: the things I think that's been, to be honest, triggering
Speaker 1: for all of us is to watch when by some
Speaker 1: writers Lucas was kind of hijacked and we didn't remember.
Speaker 1: It wasn't and it wasn't a good look, and we
Speaker 1: didn't we didn't remember that there was bad behavior on
Speaker 1: Lucas's part. Honestly, we didn't. And one of the things
Speaker 1: I'm realizing that in our like what what did he do?
Speaker 1: What did he say? He said he had two girlfriends?
Speaker 1: How dare he? You know, like experience in real time
Speaker 1: is that we haven't We've always remembered Nathan being the
Speaker 1: bad guy who had a bad dad and then became
Speaker 1: a good guy because of Haley. In in these episodes,
Speaker 1: I'm really seeing the impact that again like eighteen years later,
Speaker 1: I didn't remember. I don't know if you guys did
Speaker 1: of of exactly that that scar for Lucas of what
Speaker 1: Dan's abandonment did to him, and it like what an
Speaker 1: impactful thing for a for a kid. And and this
Speaker 1: is the episode where we really get into it, where
Speaker 1: he's not running away from it, where he's not like
Speaker 1: you know if you at the insults, where where he
Speaker 1: confronts it and he owns it and he uses it
Speaker 1: as his vulnerability when he talks to Brooke about what
Speaker 1: kind of dad he would never want to be. When
Speaker 1: he confronts Dan about why Dan was so selfish and
Speaker 1: how he knows he could never be like him, you know,
Speaker 1: he started to experiment a little bit and realizes he
Speaker 1: isn't Dan. It's such a beautiful um moment where you
Speaker 1: see a character cement his identity as an individual. And
Speaker 1: I just I just thought it was like such a powerhouse, Um,
Speaker 1: this is this is like a this is a if
Speaker 1: we made a top ten list like this would be
Speaker 1: on my top ten episodes for Lucas. First, sure, I
Speaker 1: think all of us also in the Lucas of it.
Speaker 1: All the episodes that were written by men. Even when
Speaker 1: Lucas was going through something, he still found a way
Speaker 1: to flirt with everyone, right, and that may have been
Speaker 1: a direction thing, that may have been what was on
Speaker 1: the page, you know, like whatever. When Lucas finds out
Speaker 1: like Brooke could be pregnant and then he runs into
Speaker 1: Peyton again on the quad, there is not a note
Speaker 1: of impropriety. He is not flirty with Peyton in any way.
Speaker 1: He's not Like it's when he says, what did we do?
Speaker 1: You know, there's nothing um conspiratorial? What's what is? There's
Speaker 1: something conspiring about it? What's guys? Vocab conspiratorial? Is that
Speaker 1: a word? Yeah, listen, we're gonna have our drama queens.
Speaker 1: Vocab list what we had a while back. Scrapple, scrap
Speaker 1: crap bull that's right. So I liked that they shook
Speaker 1: him up and he realized, like, oh, not every chick
Speaker 1: is a sex spot, you know, Like Peyton is Brooks
Speaker 1: best friend. Like eventually we're all going to be involved
Speaker 1: in this situation, whether we like it or not. Like,
Speaker 1: let's be thoughtful. He's thoughtful in that moment um. It
Speaker 1: was good to see them in friend zone. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: the thoughtfulness makes the misdirection later for Brook and Peyton
Speaker 1: so delicious because it was the first time in a
Speaker 1: long time that this boy hasn't been flirting with her,
Speaker 1: that he's come to her for help. So then when
Speaker 1: Peyton turns around and says, yeah, he was so upset earlier,
Speaker 1: it's like she steps in it because it was so innocent,
Speaker 1: and you realize these people they're just missing each other,
Speaker 1: and it's it's heartbreaking. She's real dumb, she's pond spirit tutorial.
Speaker 1: We're just like, oh, you should say the thing instead
Speaker 1: of saying the around the thing. Um, guys, we have
Speaker 1: we have not talked about one big thing that happened
Speaker 1: in this episode, which was finding out that Dan has
Speaker 1: this whole folder full of Lucas memorable memorabilia. Caught out
Speaker 1: like magazine cut out that right, yeah, well once, yeah,
Speaker 1: once I saw it on screen, I remembered, but um no,
Speaker 1: I remembered the magazine holder. I don't know why. It's
Speaker 1: just a problem. It's like I was having some random
Speaker 1: this right. You know what else I remembered is the
Speaker 1: sheets on the bed. As soon as I saw Nathan
Speaker 1: and Haleien bed together in the apartment, I had, like
Speaker 1: you know, like sense memory. I remembered feeling feeling those
Speaker 1: sheets because they were all the same and it was
Speaker 1: the same, you know, they all smelled like props, like
Speaker 1: they've been stored up in the problems totally. They smell
Speaker 1: like the inside of a plastic bit yeah truck, and
Speaker 1: they've been washed with the same detergent for the last
Speaker 1: like ten years. Like it was just I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but that was some sort of sense memory hit me.
Speaker 1: And then when Dan was in his office, the magazine
Speaker 1: rack behind him, like the wooden mag He's office, but
Speaker 1: they would move props around so that ended up in
Speaker 1: Hayley's office or desk or something somehow. But I was
Speaker 1: like all things in this episode, I was like when
Speaker 1: you said it, when you were like, I remember that
Speaker 1: we were on to the next point, but I wanted
Speaker 1: to be like, is it because it's under the lamp?
Speaker 1: Like it was lit by one of the million lamps.
Speaker 1: It was such a funny choice about so many lamps.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I was. I was pretty um a pleasantly
Speaker 1: surprised to see Dan pull out this envelope with all
Speaker 1: those clippings in it. Um I loved, you know, when
Speaker 1: Dan went into talk to Lucas in the weightlifting room.
Speaker 1: I was like, why is he in here? Why is
Speaker 1: he doing this making the rounds? Like what's the point
Speaker 1: of this conversation? And then he turned the corner of
Speaker 1: like not just being a bad guy and being like
Speaker 1: your mother should have had an abortion and you should
Speaker 1: never have, you know, been born, because I was like, God,
Speaker 1: what hustle this guy is And then he says something
Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly what the dialogue was. There is
Speaker 1: something about you've got so much life. You've got yes,
Speaker 1: there's so much life ahead of you, and that's what
Speaker 1: it was. It was like, that's and that's what Paul
Speaker 1: was telling us when he was on the show a
Speaker 1: few weeks ago about that he was actually looking at
Speaker 1: I was trying to in his weird, sick, twisted way,
Speaker 1: he was trying to look out for Lucas in the
Speaker 1: best way he knew how, and trying to get Lucas
Speaker 1: to see things from his perspective, even though obviously not
Speaker 1: considering Lucas's feelings or how it would affect him or
Speaker 1: impact him anyway. He was just and he really was
Speaker 1: genuinely so happy to see Lucas when he came to
Speaker 1: the dealership. He was like, you finally think I'm not
Speaker 1: a bad guy. You know my side of things. I
Speaker 1: was the dork that when he opened up that folder,
Speaker 1: I'm like, why is Paul pictures of chat? Like I enjoy?
Speaker 1: Had to explain it. She's like, it's Lucas. He's been
Speaker 1: saving them for years, Hilary, And I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: because he does secretly really care. He's you know, it's
Speaker 1: meaningful to him. That's that's why Dan's my favorite character.
Speaker 1: He just keeps unfolding. It's like an onion, you just
Speaker 1: keep peeling the layers. Yeah. Well, and you know what's
Speaker 1: cool about it is it's kind of what we were
Speaker 1: talking about last week, you know, like when we were
Speaker 1: all saying our opinions on whether or not it would
Speaker 1: have been an interesting choice to have had Brooke lie
Speaker 1: about the pregnancy from the beginning. Sometimes the most misguided
Speaker 1: actions can produce the most interesting on screen journeys. And
Speaker 1: what I loved was that we had because they're sixteen,
Speaker 1: that's really genuine scare. You know the pregnancy tests that
Speaker 1: home one says it's positive and had you ever taken
Speaker 1: a pregnancy test? And sixteen Oh my god, Oh my god. No,
Speaker 1: I was Hayley at sixteen. I've been dating my poor
Speaker 1: high school sweetheart for three years. That I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm still not ready, sweet angel. The idea of having
Speaker 1: to go by one, you know, terrifying. It's a big deal,
Speaker 1: and I and I think about I think about. Some
Speaker 1: of the beauty of this episode to me was the
Speaker 1: innocence and the fallibility, like Lucas had been fallible and
Speaker 1: gets his innocence back, and Brooks innocence of being in
Speaker 1: love for the first time is broken, and then when
Speaker 1: he says to her that hideous thing of how do
Speaker 1: I even know it's mine? That fight in the parking
Speaker 1: lot is Chef's kiss so good, It's so good. So
Speaker 1: you were awesome in this episode, Sophia. Yeah, we talked
Speaker 1: about Sophia's stamina because for the last like a lot
Speaker 1: of episodes, Brooke has been so hurt and so sad
Speaker 1: and isolated in her room and having to just sit
Speaker 1: by yourself and cry is so much harder than doing
Speaker 1: a scene where someone else is helping your work into it.
Speaker 1: And you know, frankly, I'm pissed that Peyton's got the
Speaker 1: reputation as the cry baby because you're outcrying, my as.
Speaker 1: I learned a lot this year, but so good and
Speaker 1: like you can see the front of her being angry
Speaker 1: with Lucas and then how it turns at home and
Speaker 1: being able to do both is a lot of work, um,
Speaker 1: and you make it look easy. You do. Thanks. You know,
Speaker 1: it was really important for me to two I don't
Speaker 1: mean to be like hyperbolic, but it felt really important
Speaker 1: to do right by this storyline. If you were flip
Speaker 1: about it, oh my god, but you know, given some
Speaker 1: of what we were talking about, like girls who end
Speaker 1: up in this position and get you know, left tongue
Speaker 1: out to dry, Like how scary this is, and yes,
Speaker 1: how scary it is for kids in general. Like that
Speaker 1: she goes to him and says, I really don't want
Speaker 1: to have to tell you this, but who else am
Speaker 1: I supposed to talk to? Like it was something that
Speaker 1: I don't know why it was about it it I
Speaker 1: think because we rallied and kind of rode so hard
Speaker 1: for our characters. I was so heartbroken for her and
Speaker 1: and to show that for someone like her who on
Speaker 1: the outside looks like she has it all together, to
Speaker 1: really begin getting a window into Brooks world where she's
Speaker 1: completely alone. She has no parental support um, which she
Speaker 1: shared with Karen a little bit, which was why I
Speaker 1: loved that. Karen in that moment also asked me because
Speaker 1: how Brooke was doing it was so thoughtful. Um, but
Speaker 1: you know, this little girl who's facing this by herself
Speaker 1: was UM, something I wanted to honor. And in that
Speaker 1: youth and in that heartbreak when he insults her and
Speaker 1: and says the thing about her that, yeah, like the
Speaker 1: thing you're you're worried people would say to you that
Speaker 1: also is up fair because it's a double standard about
Speaker 1: boys and girls. But anyway, um, Kennel, Hello, Carousel, Carosel,
Speaker 1: caros Al, that's what she should have just said, carros Out,
Speaker 1: I'm pregnant. But you know, she stabs her, and she
Speaker 1: stabs him back, and it's a it's a reaction, it's
Speaker 1: not even a choice. And I thought it was beautiful
Speaker 1: because then she's sitting there going, oh, dear, I've said
Speaker 1: this thing, and how do I take it back? And
Speaker 1: that scene with them, I thought was so genuine because
Speaker 1: she did need him to apologize, but the apology, it
Speaker 1: just it breaks her heart almost even more because she's
Speaker 1: because he's good that she really loved, like he's saying
Speaker 1: all the things he made her love him. It was
Speaker 1: really good. That was really good writing for for Chad
Speaker 1: and I. It was really beautiful in this sort of
Speaker 1: cycle of the Brook and Lucas story too. Essentially bring
Speaker 1: these two back together in that bedroom and they're covered
Speaker 1: in cuts they've given to each other, like they've hurt
Speaker 1: each other, and nobody actually says I'm sorry. It's just
Speaker 1: that the communication is it just shows it's not always
Speaker 1: necessary to say. Sometimes it's necessary to say the words,
Speaker 1: but sometimes you just have to hear each other and
Speaker 1: and talk through. And I loved that he was so
Speaker 1: willing to just say, what do you want? I will
Speaker 1: be here for you, I will do I will do
Speaker 1: whatever it takes to be a great dad. I want
Speaker 1: I want to be a good guy. I want to
Speaker 1: do the right thing. You know. That's such a beautiful observation, Joy,
Speaker 1: because you're right, they don't apologize to each other verbally,
Speaker 1: but that scene feels so apologetic on both their parts,
Speaker 1: and they and they and they are sorry and they're
Speaker 1: yelling and they're honest about all the things that have
Speaker 1: happened between them, and I actually think that the unsaid
Speaker 1: but obvious apology of it all is what lets her
Speaker 1: finally sit alone and just cry. And it's going to
Speaker 1: let them be okay with each other in the future
Speaker 1: as the show moves on, because they've become such good friends. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the comedy, the comedy that evolves for Brooke and Lucas
Speaker 1: like over the years, is so good and so funny,
Speaker 1: and I do think you're right. I think this really
Speaker 1: lays the foundation for an honest friendship in the future.
Speaker 1: They both know that nothing was based in malice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and if you can get through really hard
Speaker 1: things like that with somebody, you know, you kind of
Speaker 1: know that you can get through anything. And them being
Speaker 1: able to have that as a foundation of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we made it through some really hard and look how
Speaker 1: young we are and we figured it out, like we
Speaker 1: can do this well. And I like that we got
Speaker 1: to model it too. There's a lot we got to
Speaker 1: model really well in this episode. The conversations around consent
Speaker 1: with Haley and Nathan, the honest apologies and like the
Speaker 1: owning of your failures and the ways you've hurt people.
Speaker 1: And I'm so curious how when we think about like
Speaker 1: the beginning of the repair of the rip for Brooke
Speaker 1: and Lucas. I'm excited to see because we still see
Speaker 1: the rip for Brooke and Peyton. I'm excited to see
Speaker 1: how these two friends begin their repair because they remain
Speaker 1: in the end game of it family, they remain best
Speaker 1: friends and well, our middle our daughter's middle name is Brooke.
Speaker 1: What I mean exactly how do we go from this? Yes, Baby,
Speaker 1: saw your Brook. It makes me feel emotional. I love it. Um.
Speaker 1: I think the title of this episode is like bedroom
Speaker 1: talks because the bedroom talks in this episode are so strong.
Speaker 1: We've got the Nathan and Haley bedroom talk where he
Speaker 1: spies there for the first time. We've got the Brook
Speaker 1: and Lucas bedroom talk. We've got the Karen and Lucas
Speaker 1: bedroom talk, and then we have the Haley and Peyton
Speaker 1: bedroom talk. I love that too. I love even discussed that.
Speaker 1: Yet you said the most lovely thing to her. Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, Haley pouring her heart out in a
Speaker 1: way that isn't like she's just been so honest. Before
Speaker 1: a girl loses her virginity, she thinks most girls think
Speaker 1: about whether or not they're going to do it for
Speaker 1: a very long time. It's something that gave me like
Speaker 1: hives and and horror Show. And I was so nervous
Speaker 1: that I built up this reputation about being like I'm
Speaker 1: a clean teen. You know. I really had a club
Speaker 1: called Clean Teen's in high school. I was like Queen
Speaker 1: Virgin and I dated a boy who was not and
Speaker 1: I remember crying in his lap, just like laying at
Speaker 1: a party, like I just need to know it's never
Speaker 1: gonna happen, and so you can tell me now if
Speaker 1: you want to, you know. And he he was lovely.
Speaker 1: He didn't um, which was nice. That like makes you
Speaker 1: feel nice when you take it off the table entirely
Speaker 1: and you're like, you know what, I like you. I
Speaker 1: just like being around you. And Nathan says that, so
Speaker 1: Haley laying it all out, I think it was important
Speaker 1: for girls to see. Yeah, I think so too. I
Speaker 1: loved that. Um the thing that Peyton says at the chalkboard,
Speaker 1: you were painting h J plus n S equals hard.
Speaker 1: It's so cute. And you said, um, I say something
Speaker 1: about how much I'm in love with him and how
Speaker 1: I feel and all those things, and you say, well,
Speaker 1: then you went further with him than I ever did,
Speaker 1: because just acknowledging that that there's so much more to
Speaker 1: a relationship and a connection than sex um. And I
Speaker 1: think Haley really needed to hear that. Haley got a
Speaker 1: lot of good info, good advice in this episode, I think,
Speaker 1: which is so nice because she's so often the voice
Speaker 1: of reason supporting everyone else. That's a great Yes, that's
Speaker 1: a good insight to watch her get supported and poured
Speaker 1: into and the one place she feels lost. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: to get lots of information, you know, this information from Peyton,
Speaker 1: that nugget from Lucas, all of all of these things,
Speaker 1: so that she can understand why she feels conflicted and
Speaker 1: that that's okay. And as you so wisely said, Joy,
Speaker 1: that there's no shame in that. Yeah. I mean, you know, Hillary,
Speaker 1: you're talking about how intense it felt for you to
Speaker 1: think about it. I remember my own anxieties like you.
Speaker 1: I hate that girls get so ashamed that they get
Speaker 1: hives thinking about that's heartbreaking, guys, It's never gonna happen,
Speaker 1: so I die. Honestly, we would go to parties. We
Speaker 1: would go to parties in high school and not drink,
Speaker 1: and like, at some point in the party. When other
Speaker 1: people started acting stupid, we'd yell out clean teens, and
Speaker 1: then the other girls would yell out versions for life,
Speaker 1: and that was like, oh my god. It was like
Speaker 1: it was like the call and response across a party,
Speaker 1: and we thought it was so funny because we were
Speaker 1: owning the thing that other people could have picked on.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I mean yeah, yeah, girls gets. There
Speaker 1: was one more thing too, that I want to say
Speaker 1: about Hayley's tattoo, because it just really started making me think, what,
Speaker 1: um what an intro like that? There's so many layers
Speaker 1: in someone who would get a tattoo and sixteen years
Speaker 1: old and hide it from everyone, even her best friend.
Speaker 1: It's literally just for her. Yeah, that that's that takes
Speaker 1: a certain amount of Um. I don't know. I'm a lost,
Speaker 1: I'm a lost for vocabulary words to anymore coffee, But
Speaker 1: it has that ever happened? Did you get a secret tattoo? Aver?
Speaker 1: I never got a secret tattoo? Mean that that takes
Speaker 1: a certain amount of introverted that I don't have, Like
Speaker 1: that's a level of I need something that's just for me,
Speaker 1: and or maybe it's just confidence, a level of self
Speaker 1: confidence that I didn't know where you can just be
Speaker 1: so comfortable that you're like, I'm getting something. I don't
Speaker 1: need to show anybody. I don't need to talk anybody
Speaker 1: but anybody about it. I'm just it's just for me.
Speaker 1: So y'all can all bugger off, right. I haven't thought
Speaker 1: about it so much in that way, but I'm realizing, like,
Speaker 1: oh I r L, I'm Haley. When it comes to tattoos,
Speaker 1: Oh you are Do you have all those white tattoos
Speaker 1: that nobody knows? I have a Yeah, I have a
Speaker 1: lot of secret tattoos. You guys have seven tattoos and
Speaker 1: only one is in color. That's awesome and I love.
Speaker 1: I love when I show them to people who I
Speaker 1: you know, trust and love, who go, how have I
Speaker 1: never seen this? And then they never unsee it? But
Speaker 1: and no one knows they're there, and they're just mine
Speaker 1: to do that. As an adult, that's like, it's wonderful.
Speaker 1: But as a kid at I can't because you met
Speaker 1: like we're all so desperate to be seeing, like to
Speaker 1: known firmed approved all of that stuff that for somebody
Speaker 1: to just be like, yeah, no, I'm I'm she's got
Speaker 1: another planets. So it was such a bold choice for
Speaker 1: a teenager. She had to figure out how to get
Speaker 1: permission or get that illegally and be yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: I I started getting mine at twenty three, And truly,
Speaker 1: I think part of it was was to make sense
Speaker 1: of how intense all the eyeballs on us because of
Speaker 1: the show felt. It gave me a way to make
Speaker 1: my personhood feel like it was just for me again.
Speaker 1: Your body's a secret again, Like there's a thing you
Speaker 1: don't get to look at or touch or comment on
Speaker 1: or know about. Where are we going to put our
Speaker 1: drama queens tattoos? I can't stop thinking about it. I
Speaker 1: have ideas if we want to talk about adults making choices.
Speaker 1: You know, we've been wishy washy on how old Nikki
Speaker 1: was um and in this in this episode, she talks
Speaker 1: about tuition money, so we know she's like right, she
Speaker 1: seems like she seems yeah. I mean, they certainly wrote
Speaker 1: her to feel that way. They hired a Manuel. She's
Speaker 1: got such good eyebrows and eye like she you know,
Speaker 1: she okay, so because she used to model and maybe
Speaker 1: she still does, I don't know. Um And they would
Speaker 1: need to sort of paint her eyebrows in different ways,
Speaker 1: like sometimes it would be really extreme to the side
Speaker 1: or like all the way up or whatever. So she
Speaker 1: plucked her eyebrows from the arch out like toward her
Speaker 1: ears arch out. They were completely gone. There was no
Speaker 1: eyebrows there. It was just the main part. And um,
Speaker 1: I had this when I went to ledge other I
Speaker 1: just had this conversation, was like, what's going on with
Speaker 1: your eyebrows? Because I'm so no filter? Yeah, but she
Speaker 1: told me it was because I'm modeled. And I went
Speaker 1: home and I plucked out my eyebrows from because I
Speaker 1: was like, she was so cool. She is so cool.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that is it's you know, should we
Speaker 1: get to see a human side of her in this?
Speaker 1: But you guys, just so you know, we were all
Speaker 1: so intimated by Emmanuel because she was cool, been with
Speaker 1: those little mean poodles she carried around with her. Go,
Speaker 1: why don't we we need to have her on? Can
Speaker 1: we get meta come? Yeah, she's cool, He's got to
Speaker 1: come on immediately. But it's interesting years people have always talked.
Speaker 1: I've gotten to note a number of times that it
Speaker 1: looked like Peyton was going to kiss her before she
Speaker 1: slapped it. And there she's a babe. Uh and we
Speaker 1: I think we wrestle in the next episode. Um, if
Speaker 1: memory serves me, I'm excited. Yeah. Yeah. We see Nikki's humanity.
Speaker 1: We see her humanity and it is really interesting. You know.
Speaker 1: We touched on this a little bit in the last episode,
Speaker 1: but there is something one of the things that creeps
Speaker 1: in you know again that came from a room we
Speaker 1: didn't have control of. That is weird for all of us, guys,
Speaker 1: is the reality that Nikki's in college and Jake is
Speaker 1: sixteen that she does again not written by Karen, the
Speaker 1: one of them. Yeah, she inherited this information for sure,
Speaker 1: from someone else, but that someone else cracked a joke,
Speaker 1: you know, wrote a line for Nikki to say, oh
Speaker 1: I like him young and if she's twenty in Jake sixteen, Like,
Speaker 1: we're talking about something that's not okay. And I just
Speaker 1: want to say, I know that that has been a
Speaker 1: bit triggering for some fans of the show who are
Speaker 1: realizing this information as we are, and because when we
Speaker 1: were kids we didn't even track it because we were
Speaker 1: all around the same age. But you know, if you
Speaker 1: have experienced something like that, you know, we don't mean
Speaker 1: to be redundant, but it does feel important to continue
Speaker 1: to remind ourselves and all of you guys that if
Speaker 1: you've been through something like this, there are resources you
Speaker 1: can reach out to organizations to help you. There are
Speaker 1: wonderful online and in person support groups and therapy groups
Speaker 1: and um individual you know, resources that you can reach
Speaker 1: out to if you need support to kind of process
Speaker 1: um something, just to even ask questions. Yeah, we don't
Speaker 1: want to be flippant about a thing that you know,
Speaker 1: in a court of law would be a statutory rape case.
Speaker 1: It is hard for us to realize that these were
Speaker 1: some of the things that we're not well modeled on
Speaker 1: on our show. Yeah, because what when she was a
Speaker 1: senior in high school, it was Jake like a freshman
Speaker 1: and eighth grader. I don't know, I mean even if
Speaker 1: she was, yeah, because we're all supposed to be we're
Speaker 1: all supposed to be freshman or sophomore. So we're all juniors,
Speaker 1: sophomores or juniors. Yeah, yeah, and Jenny's Jenny's about a
Speaker 1: year maybe less. So, oh my god, Jake was like
Speaker 1: fourteen when they hooked up. See that's rough. Maybe she
Speaker 1: was seventeen and then like you know, had the baby
Speaker 1: the next year or something. This is bad math. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't. It just doesn't feel great for us no
Speaker 1: matter what. And and you know, I think the three
Speaker 1: of us definitely went oh and she said, I've got
Speaker 1: spirit tuition money. We're we're like, oh we we we
Speaker 1: gotta we gotta talk about this. So but regardless, in
Speaker 1: real life, Emmanuel is fabulous, wonderful, smoking, hot, and so
Speaker 1: cool that she made or eyebrows out. Yeah, we've the
Speaker 1: least time anyone saw Emmanuel. I don't know has anyone
Speaker 1: seen her recently. I wanted to get her back when
Speaker 1: she when she drops the bomb on Lucas that she's
Speaker 1: Jenny's mother. His reaction is so good, so good. They
Speaker 1: both played that really, really, they really did. They really.
Speaker 1: There was just no it felt like there was no
Speaker 1: acting in this episode. You know, sometimes you're doing a show,
Speaker 1: you're doing twenty two episodes and season after season, and
Speaker 1: it can start to just sometimes it just feels like
Speaker 1: you're you're a desk job. You can just you know,
Speaker 1: you know, when you're phoning it in, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got lunch and that like I'm supposed to be
Speaker 1: out of here by by noon. And I got a
Speaker 1: lunch meeting, like let's just get this over with. There
Speaker 1: was no phoning it in in this episode. Everybody. You
Speaker 1: know that the scenes where you're supposed to be acting
Speaker 1: like this is the best time ever, where I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: those scenes were the ones where you're like supposed to
Speaker 1: be at a club raging, except there's way music and
Speaker 1: everyone's just fake in the morning, the wrong. Oh god,
Speaker 1: those are my Those are my nightmare. Those are the
Speaker 1: ones where I'm like, all right, channel, get it together,
Speaker 1: get it together, think about it. Well, guys, should we
Speaker 1: like maybe look at fan questions and spin a wheel.
Speaker 1: The one thing I want to say about the end
Speaker 1: of the episode, I love how this episode ended because
Speaker 1: Lucas thanked his mother. Yes, mom, thank you if you're
Speaker 1: out there, thank your mother. Um. That was such a
Speaker 1: good note, especially for all the crap he's done in
Speaker 1: these first like eighteen episodes. You know, Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: a lovely way to end. Yeah. I'm wanting to work
Speaker 1: with Tom right on two other shows. Have you guys
Speaker 1: gotten to work with haven't? I would love to. He
Speaker 1: did White Collar and I was like, oh my god, Tom,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to see And then He called me
Speaker 1: because he was doing an episode of Castle and he
Speaker 1: um wanted me to come in and play a Kim Kardashian.
Speaker 1: I remember that no one would have ever thought of
Speaker 1: me to do that. But I think what we see
Speaker 1: in this episode where they let us do things we've
Speaker 1: never done before, a good director will see the potential
Speaker 1: in you that no one else has ever seen before.
Speaker 1: So yes, that's Tom right, talk, let's do a question.
Speaker 1: We've got a fan question from Bia, which I think
Speaker 1: is actually so genius. I wouldn't have thought about this,
Speaker 1: but we've talked in the earlier part of the episodes
Speaker 1: about how Chad had a tattoo on his shoulder and
Speaker 1: they needed to figure out how to cover it, so
Speaker 1: they gave Lucas a tattoo, and Bia is asking did
Speaker 1: Joy actually already have a tattoo? And that did that
Speaker 1: influence the Haley tattoo moment storyline, Joy, you've got tattoos,
Speaker 1: but I don't think you have one there. Oh no, no,
Speaker 1: that was just it was just painted on. That's just
Speaker 1: me sitting in a chair and then spray me with
Speaker 1: a stencil. Um. Yeah, it was a stencil. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like a it eventually was, but the first because we
Speaker 1: only saw it twice and we didn't know how many
Speaker 1: more times we were going to see it. So I
Speaker 1: think the first two times it was painted on and
Speaker 1: then they might have gotten a Stanci because I mean,
Speaker 1: if you see it, it it looks like a sticker at
Speaker 1: the saint right, and you know, it looks like when
Speaker 1: they would paint your tears your face with the cheerleading
Speaker 1: they are cheerleading cheek. Yeah, it was. I think it
Speaker 1: was the exact same paint, the same everything, and they
Speaker 1: just put just put some hair sprays mock on net.
Speaker 1: We filmed it. We filmed on film, you know, so
Speaker 1: everything was kind of soft and you could like fudge
Speaker 1: things like stubble and like tattoos. Now that we shoot
Speaker 1: on HD, if you don't actually tattoo it on the person,
Speaker 1: it looks so fake. So it's a different it's a
Speaker 1: different medium. That's hilarious. It would have actually been kind
Speaker 1: of amazing if they had had to cover you having
Speaker 1: a tattoo with a like it just would have Oh,
Speaker 1: that would have been funny. No, I don't have one,
Speaker 1: but did they because you have a cool tattoo on
Speaker 1: your foot? Did they cover that up for Haley or
Speaker 1: did they like they did h No, they covered it
Speaker 1: up most of the time. I think they were eventually.
Speaker 1: I mean there were times, and there were seasons where
Speaker 1: I was like wearing glasses in an episode randomly because
Speaker 1: I just like, I had my glasses on set and
Speaker 1: I forgot to take them off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: And then they were like, oh, Joy, Continuity, you're wearing
Speaker 1: your glasses. And I was like, whatever, I'll just put
Speaker 1: them on my face. And then Haley has glasses for
Speaker 1: like suddenly she's got bad vision when she reads for
Speaker 1: like an episode, and there's stuff like where you'll see
Speaker 1: my tattoo and then it goes away and then it's there.
Speaker 1: I mean, Continuity is a whole life of its own
Speaker 1: on this show. Yeah, when you're working eighteen hours a day,
Speaker 1: I mean it's impossible. You do start to lose your
Speaker 1: mind a little bit. I feel like they let you
Speaker 1: keep your foot tattoo. Once we came back after the
Speaker 1: time jump, Oh yeah, it might have been. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: could have been. Well, we'll see when we get there.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, when we get to season five,
Speaker 1: we're all going to be looking at Joy's feet. We
Speaker 1: will have an answer for you in season five. All right,
Speaker 1: here we go spinning the wheel. Most likely to be
Speaker 1: a social media influencer Bevin Bevin. Yes, in like real
Speaker 1: life and in in pretend land, because she's so likable,
Speaker 1: Like Bevin is the girl who could do a TikTok
Speaker 1: that you're like, oh my god. Yeah, and like I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with this company that she has started back in
Speaker 1: Wilmington's what's that? I don't know anything about Recess. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's so cool. Bevin had been like this high ranking
Speaker 1: Soul Cycle instructor for years. Started yeah, like at the
Speaker 1: major facility here in New York, and she moved back
Speaker 1: to Wilmington and the pandemic and opened up Recess, which
Speaker 1: isn't you know it's a gym where you do things
Speaker 1: that are like fun. Jim's can be so toxic and weird,
Speaker 1: and Bevin is fun. She's walking fun. Yes, she is
Speaker 1: so fun. I mean we were like campaigning for years
Speaker 1: to get Bevan on s and now I still stand
Speaker 1: by that. But it's it's been so cool to watch
Speaker 1: her find her passion and then, like Hillary said, you know,
Speaker 1: become like a top person in Soul Cycle which is
Speaker 1: such a huge company, and then go and start her
Speaker 1: own like what a what a legend? Yeah, wins wins.
Speaker 1: I like it when we have an easy answer, no doubt.
Speaker 1: Come back next week We've got episode twenty what is
Speaker 1: and what should Never Be? I don't know what happens
Speaker 1: in this episode. I'm like, I don't need fetching up
Speaker 1: with everyone, um, but we've had some much fun with you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for watching this episode with us. If you're not
Speaker 1: watching along, we encourage you to do so, or at
Speaker 1: least just this episode because this one was gold. Because
Speaker 1: this one's so good, maybe watch episode nineteen twice because
Speaker 1: it's it's really that good. See you guys later, Bye,
Speaker 1: love you, Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave
Speaker 1: us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Drama Queens O t H or email us at
Speaker 1: Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you
Speaker 1: next time. Were all about that high school drama? Girl,
Speaker 1: drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take
Speaker 1: you for a ride at our comic girl cheering for
Speaker 1: the righteen drama queens up girl fashion, but you'll tough, girl.
Speaker 1: You could sit with us, Girl Drama, Queens Drama, Queens Drama,
Speaker 1: Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama, Queens