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Speaker 1: Hi guys, it's Josh, and for this week's Select, I'm

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Speaker 1: going with our 2020 episode on blacksmiths. Growing up, there

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Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of smithing going on around me. Pretty

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Speaker 1: much zero smithing, actually. So I wasn't very familiar with

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Speaker 1: this topic. But I found very quickly that I really

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Speaker 1: enjoyed researching it and talking about it, too. And I

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Speaker 1: came to admire all the blacksmiths. on the videos that

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Speaker 1: I watched. It's just kind of mesmerizing. And if you

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Speaker 1: think about it, there are many things that people do

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Speaker 1: today that are essentially unchanged over the last few thousand years,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty cool. So I hope you like listening

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Speaker 1: to this one as much as I liked researching it.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's

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Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there, and Jerry's out there somewhere,

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Speaker 1: and this is Stuff You Should Know.

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Speaker 2: Did I tell you about my new hobby that started yesterday?

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Speaker 1: I'll bet I can guess.

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Speaker 2: Watching blacksmithing videos.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say the same thing, man. Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't have any desire to blacksmith myself.

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Speaker 2: Nope.

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Speaker 1: I just like watching these videos. There's something really amazing

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Speaker 1: about them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one. I don't know if you watched. It's

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Speaker 2: on YouTube. It's called Blacksmithing Forging a Bearded Axe.

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Speaker 1: No, I didn't see that one. Oh, God.

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Speaker 2: It just reminds me of the sort of the lulling

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Speaker 2: of that show, how it's made. But I watched this video,

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Speaker 2: and most of them have some sped up stuff, too,

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Speaker 2: because blacksmithing takes so long that a 30-minute video, I mean,

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Speaker 2: half of it is in fast motion, so it just

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Speaker 2: goes to show you, and it's edited.

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Speaker 1: And they always put it to Yakety Sachs.

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Speaker 2: But it's just crazy, though, when you see how long

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Speaker 2: it takes to make this one axe. And then you

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Speaker 2: think about outfitting armies. Yeah. It just feels like it

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Speaker 2: was every other person a blacksmith. And did they just

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Speaker 2: do that 24-7?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I get the impression there is a Walt Whitman

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Speaker 1: poem about blacksmiths. And he's basically like they were the

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Speaker 1: most important people in any community. Everybody loved them. They

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Speaker 1: owed no one anything because they never had any debts

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Speaker 1: because they were so vital that anything they did probably

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Speaker 1: was worth 10 times what anybody else could do for them.

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Speaker 1: They seem to have been pretty amazing people on the whole.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, and we'll talk about this more, but

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Speaker 2: when you think about just nails. Yeah. And how many

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Speaker 2: nails built this country and the world.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Those nails had to be forged.

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Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, when you watch some of these blacksmith videos,

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Speaker 1: and like you're saying, when you do see how long

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Speaker 1: it takes to just make an average thing that you

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Speaker 1: would like buy in a second these days, it really

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Speaker 1: gives you an appreciation for just what a sea change

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Speaker 1: the industrial revolution was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing.

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Speaker 1: To where this was automated and made, converted to mass production.

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Speaker 1: It just could have never happened before. And it didn't

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Speaker 1: happen before, but it was up to the lone blacksmith to...

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Speaker 1: equip their entire communities with all this stuff. It's pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: So are we going to do blacksmith history first or

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Speaker 2: the metal history first?

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Speaker 1: We'll do blacksmith history first, I think. Okay.

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Speaker 2: I guess we've got to look at the name because

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Speaker 2: if you look at other smiths, they were all a

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Speaker 2: little more specific. They were called bronze smiths. Blacksmiths are

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Speaker 2: not called iron smiths. No.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: Even though they work with iron, and most of the

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Speaker 2: other smiths were named for the metal that they work with.

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Speaker 1: Silversmith, that's a good one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, God, good silversmith.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 2: It's worth their weight, and it's gold.

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Speaker 1: Silver. Don't bring up gold to those guys.

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Speaker 2: Oh, no, no. But black comes from, well, we're not positive,

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Speaker 2: but one explanation is blacksmith comes from the hammer scale,

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Speaker 2: or these scales. If you're watching these videos, you'll see

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Speaker 2: when they're hammering this stuff, these little tiny, chunky scales, thin,

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Speaker 2: not chunky actually, just little chunks of thin scales are

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Speaker 2: falling off every time they hammer it. That's the hammer scale.

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Speaker 2: And it is black, and your hands get all black,

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Speaker 2: and your face gets black. Or it might have just

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Speaker 2: been because iron is black.

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Speaker 1: Typically, yeah, it's pretty dark. It's dark enough. Especially wrought iron,

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Speaker 1: it tends to be black. So that's why they think

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Speaker 1: one of those two reasons is where blacksmith came from.

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Speaker 1: And the name Smith itself, we actually talk about this

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Speaker 1: in our book that's coming out, you know, In the

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Speaker 1: episode on keeping up with the Joneses.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's right.

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Speaker 1: We talked about. You mean the chapter?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The chapter. In our book, we talk about how keeping

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Speaker 1: up with the Joneses could have very easily been keeping

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Speaker 1: up with the Smiths because the two names are so prevalent.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, Smith is the most prevalent name in

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Speaker 1: the United States. And it's all derived from blacksmiths and

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Speaker 1: just how many blacksmiths there were because every community needed one.

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Speaker 1: And then if you were in a large enough community,

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Speaker 1: you had multiple blacksmiths all working. Because one blacksmith had

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Speaker 1: to do all this work to supply this one community

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Speaker 1: with all this stuff. And they could only keep up

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Speaker 1: with a certain size community, you know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you had an on-site thing that you

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Speaker 2: were doing, you had a blacksmith with you. If you

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Speaker 2: were out at war in battle, you had blacksmiths there

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Speaker 2: because not only do they create these weapons and the armor,

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Speaker 2: but they have to fix stuff. You know, after a big,

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Speaker 2: long day of battle, you go in and trade in

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Speaker 2: your sword and say, fix this thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And those smithies got to be working around the clock.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they have, like, apprentices and help and all

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But, yeah, I mean, like, you

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Speaker 1: get the impression that the community could come to a

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Speaker 1: standstill when the blacksmith was sick for a week or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there were blacksmiths doing all kinds of work

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Speaker 2: all over the place, so many that they eventually, and

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Speaker 2: this makes sense, would become a little more specialized.

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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: And horses were a big deal back then. We still

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Speaker 2: love horses today, but back then they did a lot

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Speaker 2: more for humanity. They just look pretty and run around

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Speaker 2: in fields now. So they had to make horseshoes, and

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Speaker 2: it was a very specialized set of equipment for making

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Speaker 2: horseshoes as opposed to just regular blacksmithing. So that was

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Speaker 2: a very busy job. They were called farriers. And even

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Speaker 2: when blacksmithing as a whole kind of went away, there

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Speaker 2: were still farriers working because— It's not like a shoe

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Speaker 2: store where one size fits all. Well, shoe stores aren't

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Speaker 2: one size fits all, but it's very specific to your

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Speaker 2: foot size or your hoof size as a horse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So you can't just throw any old shoe that's close

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Speaker 2: enough on there. You got to make them a la carte, basically,

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Speaker 2: made to order, I think, in the fashion world. What's

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Speaker 2: it called?

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Speaker 1: Pret-a-porter?

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Speaker 2: Bespoke.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. That's the opposite of pret-a-porter.

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Speaker 2: And so farriers continue to work for years and years

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Speaker 2: and years, and I think they're are people that still

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Speaker 2: do farrier work today, aren't they?

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Speaker 1: Sure. Sure. Just to show off.

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Speaker 2: Right. Sure.

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Speaker 1: But I guess you kind of spoiled the ending. Blacksmiths

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Speaker 1: aren't really around much today because of industrialization. But they were.

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Speaker 2: They're around now. They're in Brooklyn, New York. I guarantee it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they are. For about 2000 years, they were extraordinarily

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Speaker 1: important to society. But, you know, society was around for

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Speaker 1: a very long time before blacksmiths came around. So there's

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Speaker 1: this this really important window in the historical development of

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Speaker 1: of human society that blacksmiths you know existed in um

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Speaker 1: prior to that you know we had tools but they

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Speaker 1: were mostly made of stone and then at some point

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Speaker 1: somebody said hey if you put tin and copper together

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Speaker 1: you can come up with this stuff called bronze and

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Speaker 1: it's pretty great you can make some pretty neat things

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Speaker 1: with it and one of the things about bronze is

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Speaker 1: that it has a fairly low melting point something like

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Speaker 1: um 1,742 degrees Fahrenheit, 950 degrees Celsius, which you could

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Speaker 1: get a hot campfire to that temperature to melt, melt

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Speaker 1: into molten liquid bronze, which means that you can create

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Speaker 1: casts and molds and you can pour that molten bronze

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Speaker 1: into it. And as it cools, you've got a handy

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Speaker 1: sword that you can make over and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: So bronze fulfilled this purpose for tools for many thousands

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Speaker 1: of years. So much so that— and these metals were so

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Speaker 1: important that we go back and call these historical ages

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Speaker 1: by the name of the metal tools that were being produced.

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Speaker 1: So you get the Bronze Age, and then that was

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Speaker 1: eventually followed by the Iron Age. And one thing that

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Speaker 1: stuck out to me, Chuck, I hadn't realized before, is

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Speaker 1: that you think of history as progressing, you know, constantly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the Bronze Age, even though it was followed by

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Speaker 1: the Iron Age, the Iron Age marked a period of

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Speaker 1: cultural decline. where the Bronze Age, which had come previously,

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Speaker 1: was a period of cultural blossoming. But for the first

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Speaker 1: several centuries of the Iron Age, it was a step backwards.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the classical or antiquity societies kind of

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Speaker 1: crumbled at about the same time. They think possibly because

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Speaker 1: of climate change or mass droughts and starvation, kind of

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Speaker 1: like the Maya.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not like the iron caused that, but iron,

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Speaker 2: like really good bronze is, probably superior to iron in

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Speaker 2: a lot of ways. I think iron is a little softer.

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Speaker 2: It might rust a little quicker.

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Speaker 1: It depends on what kind of iron you have, for sure. Right.

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Speaker 2: But the iron that they were using, basically, they started using, and,

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Speaker 2: you know, there's not like a demarcation line. Then there

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Speaker 2: is some overlap, and no one knows exactly when the

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Speaker 2: big switch happened. But it was cheaper, and it was

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Speaker 2: more readily available than bronze.

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Speaker 1: Was.

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Speaker 2: So they just started using iron, basically, and it surpassed bronze.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Greeks pin a semi-mythical group called the Chalabes,

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Speaker 1: who supposedly were absorbed by the Hittites in Anatolia and Turkey,

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Speaker 1: and that they were the ones who figured out how

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Speaker 1: to mine iron. Because originally there was iron stuff, like

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Speaker 1: King Tut was found with a dagger made of iron.

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Speaker 1: And it would have been even more highly prized than

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Speaker 1: anything made of gold in his entire tomb because iron

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Speaker 1: was so rare at that time. Yeah. Because the only

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Speaker 1: source of iron on Earth, as far as humans knew,

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Speaker 1: came in the form of meteorites.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you had to find a meteorite above ground to

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Speaker 1: find your deposit of iron. Yeah, totally. making a dagger

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Speaker 1: out of that would have been, that would have been

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Speaker 1: a very special dagger. And then eventually they say, the

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Speaker 1: Calabese figured out, no, there's actually iron like in rock

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Speaker 1: in the earth. And people started figuring out that you

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Speaker 1: could take that rock and heat it to some pretty

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Speaker 1: high temperatures considering and then hammer it. And you can

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Speaker 1: hammer the other stuff out, the ore out or hammer

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Speaker 1: the iron from the ore. And you have something approaching

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Speaker 1: what you would consider iron, something called bloom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they just couldn't get the fire hot enough

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Speaker 2: basically at first to get to the iron point.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: But they could make it hot enough to get to

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Speaker 2: the bloom, and they would put it in an oven

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Speaker 2: known as a bloomery, and it would kind of just

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Speaker 2: roast out those impurities. It had iron, it had slag,

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Speaker 2: which is sort of a glass-like byproduct that you, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's so funny that you can just hammer this stuff out.

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Speaker 2: But bloom would eventually, when they, I mean, it worked okay.

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Speaker 2: You could heat it up, you could hammer it, and

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Speaker 2: it would get a lot of the slag out And

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Speaker 2: it was useful enough for tools. But when the blast

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Speaker 2: furnace came around, when you really got larger furnaces and

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Speaker 2: hotter fires that incorporated bellows to really get that oxygen

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Speaker 2: in there and get it super, super hot, that eventually

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Speaker 2: allowed them to get that ore to pig iron. And

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Speaker 2: pig iron was a pretty big advancement because from pig iron,

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Speaker 2: you could hammer that slag out to eventually get to

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Speaker 2: wrought iron.

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Speaker 1: Right. I want to give a shout out to Harold DeSmith, H-A-R-A-L-D.

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Speaker 1: He wrote an intro to iron smelting that talks all

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Speaker 1: about making bloom himself with pictures. It's pretty cool. It's

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Speaker 1: worth checking out for sure.

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Speaker 2: And the Grabster helped us with this one, right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, big time. Thank you, Grabster. But with pig iron,

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Speaker 1: that was like a, it was like you said, like

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Speaker 1: a pretty big change in that, like you could suddenly

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Speaker 1: make much purer iron because we had a much hotter

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Speaker 1: furnace that we were working with. And the thing about

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Speaker 1: pig iron is, In very much the same way as bloom,

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Speaker 1: you've got to hammer out those impurities. And so to

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Speaker 1: make pig iron into wrought iron, you would take this

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Speaker 1: pig iron, which is pretty impure, heat it up and

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Speaker 1: hammer it with a sledgehammer over and over again. Heat it,

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Speaker 1: hammer it, heat it, hammer it. Very much the same

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Speaker 1: process as bloom, but at higher temperatures and producing a

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Speaker 1: much purer iron. And then eventually you would have wrought iron.

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Speaker 1: And they say that they figured out how to use

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Speaker 1: water hammers, like water-powered hammers. In part because of the

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Speaker 1: plague of the 13th century, it killed so many people

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Speaker 1: that they didn't have the human power any longer that

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Speaker 1: they needed to hammer pig iron. So it made people

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Speaker 1: devise water hammers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, water hammers, steam hammers. You know, if you look

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Speaker 2: at these videos today, these people and their and their

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Speaker 2: shops and their sheds that they have behind their house have,

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Speaker 2: it looks like hydraulics, I guess, that are pounding this stuff.

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Speaker 2: And at first when I saw that, I was disappointed.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, man. But that's just the big

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Speaker 2: initial work. Like there's still tons of hammer work by

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Speaker 2: hand because there are many, many, there's a lot more

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Speaker 2: to it than that initial hammering to get to the

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Speaker 2: wrought iron stage. But I was, at first I was

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Speaker 2: kind of like, oh, man, what? They don't like swing

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Speaker 2: a hammer anymore?

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Speaker 1: Right, no. No, there's definitely— It's very smart.

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Speaker 2: They don't need to swing a hammer.

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Speaker 1: Right. It's called work smarter, not harder. But there are

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Speaker 1: traditionalists who are like, no, I want to use a hammer.

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Speaker 1: But so the different types of irons that humans have

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Speaker 1: come up with over the ages— and this is a really

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Speaker 1: important point I think we should point out here, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: Like blacksmithing— And all of the information and knowledge and

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Speaker 1: like ways of working with different types of iron, different

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Speaker 1: techniques and actually coming up with different types of iron.

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Speaker 1: All of that started with those people who figured out

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Speaker 1: that you could take rock from the earth and hammer

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Speaker 1: the iron out of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And just more and more people over the ages as

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Speaker 1: it spread and continued to be around for hundreds and

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Speaker 1: thousands of years. All the people working with metal contributed

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Speaker 1: to that body of knowledge. And so that's, I think,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that's so appealing about blacksmithing is

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Speaker 1: that it is a genuine human technology that was created

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Speaker 1: by humanity. You know, not just like a couple of

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Speaker 1: people who had a really good idea. It was this

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Speaker 1: group of humans, countless humans all working together over thousands

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Speaker 1: of years, contributing to one another's knowledge to create this

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Speaker 1: body of knowledge. And I think that's what makes it

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Speaker 1: so neat to me.

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Speaker 2: So cool. And like such a brute way of doing it.

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Speaker 2: You know, the finesse comes in for sure. And maybe

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Speaker 2: that's what I like about it is both. Like it's

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Speaker 2: swinging the heavy hammer. But it's also doing this really

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Speaker 2: beautiful finesse work later on in the project.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Really cool. So if we're going to– well, maybe let's

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Speaker 2: take a break and then talk about the types of iron.

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Speaker 2: How about that?

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Speaker 1: Let's. All right.

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Speaker 2: We promised you talk of iron types. There's Iron Maiden.

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Speaker 1: Sure. There's Take Your Iron Supplement. That's right. What else?

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Speaker 2: There's really just Iron Maiden.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess so.

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Speaker 2: That's all. That's all you need to know. Iron types,

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Speaker 2: they're based on the carbon content of the iron. So-

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Speaker 2: If you hear wrought iron, you might just think that's

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Speaker 2: like the cool thing that your staircase spindles are made

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Speaker 2: out of.

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Speaker 1: They are not made of wrought iron.

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Speaker 2: They aren't made out of wrought iron anymore, at least.

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Speaker 2: They used to be back in the day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But this is also called bar iron. It's about 0.08%

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Speaker 2: or less carbon. And this is sort of, from what

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Speaker 2: I saw back in the day, just the main— iron

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Speaker 2: that they would mainly use for the most part.

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Speaker 1: The wrought iron?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And the difference, the big difference between wrought iron

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Speaker 1: and steel is that wrought iron has silicates in it

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Speaker 1: that kind of ends up as like these fibrous filaments

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Speaker 1: that get hammered into order, basically, by the blacksmith from

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Speaker 1: pig iron, which gives it a certain structure. With steel... Steel,

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Speaker 1: like you said, all types of iron are basically based

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Speaker 1: on their carbon content. Steel has a much higher carbon

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Speaker 1: content than wrought iron does. And so it doesn't need

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Speaker 1: to be hammered like wrought iron does because it doesn't

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Speaker 1: have these iron silicates that need to be arranged just

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Speaker 1: so or else it'll make it brittle. Instead, because of

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Speaker 1: this carbon in it, it forms this kind of crystalline

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Speaker 1: structure in the iron that makes it hard and durable material.

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Speaker 1: way harder and more durable than wrought iron. The problem is,

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Speaker 1: is because that durability and the strength and hardness, it

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Speaker 1: makes it more difficult for a blacksmith to work with

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Speaker 1: down the line than it does wrought iron. But it's

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Speaker 1: also a much more effective, say, battle axe than a

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Speaker 1: wrought iron battle axe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And like you said, it's not what we use

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Speaker 2: on our staircases and wrought iron these days. It's not

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Speaker 2: wrought iron and the production of that in like a

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Speaker 2: big way went out in, you know, the 20th century

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Speaker 2: pretty much altogether.

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Speaker 1: Went out with disco.

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Speaker 2: Oh, gosh, I wish it lasted until the 70s.

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Speaker 1: So one thing we should say also, Chuck, is we

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Speaker 1: tend to think of steel as like a modern invention.

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Speaker 1: Steel was perfected in the modern times. It was like

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Speaker 1: basically the thing that kicked off the Industrial Revolution, if

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Speaker 1: I remember from our robber barons episode. But that's not

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Speaker 1: to say that people weren't experimenting with steel long before that.

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Speaker 1: It was just the scientific understanding of it was lacking. Instead,

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Speaker 1: that was replaced by an intuitive understanding among blacksmiths of,

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Speaker 1: you know, what fuel did what to iron to make

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Speaker 1: it stronger. They weren't saying like, oh, if I use

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Speaker 1: charcoal or coke, it's going to make this a better

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Speaker 1: steel than say, you know, coal or something like that.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Then you've also got cast iron. If you

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Speaker 2: have a nice cast iron collection in your kitchen, it's

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Speaker 2: going to be 2% carbon or more It's very brittle,

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Speaker 2: so you're not going to hammer cast iron.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: It is formed into shape by casting it. That's why

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Speaker 2: it's called cast iron. And use a mold while it's

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Speaker 2: molten and pour it in there. And it's a great

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Speaker 2: thing to cook with.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we would have never been able to make

380
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Speaker 1: anything out of cast iron until those bellows were introduced

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Speaker 1: to the forge to really bring that temperature up. Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: has a very high melting point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're going to pour it, it's got to

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Speaker 2: be super, super hot. And we'll get to these temperatures

385
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Speaker 2: and the different kinds of hot later on, which is

386
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Speaker 2: very interesting stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So we've got, like, the blacksmiths are working with this.

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Speaker 1: They're figuring out that if you add, like, carbon or

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Speaker 1: if you do this, like, if you... Heat the iron

390
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Speaker 1: to a certain temperature and then take it off and

391
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Speaker 1: hammer it and then let it cool on its own.

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Speaker 1: It's going to form one type of finished product. If

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Speaker 1: you do something that's called quenching it, which is cooling

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Speaker 1: it down in a bucket of water and usually mineral

395
00:20:25,450 --> 00:20:28,230
Speaker 1: oil these days, it's going to cool differently. So its

396
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Speaker 1: structure is going to form differently. And again, they didn't,

397
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Speaker 1: they were passing this knowledge on, but they weren't using

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Speaker 1: terms necessarily that we were using. What's interesting to me

399
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Speaker 1: is we use terms that they came up with, like

400
00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 1: quenching and slag and scale and that kind of stuff.

401
00:20:43,180 --> 00:20:45,399
Speaker 1: Like those are all still very much around and it

402
00:20:45,460 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 1: makes sense still. Even after having made the transition to industrialization,

403
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Speaker 1: they still use words very much like that, if not

404
00:20:52,740 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: those same words.

405
00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:56,330
Speaker 2: Now, do you mean quenching as in how a human

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Speaker 2: might quench their own thirst?

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00:20:58,890 --> 00:21:02,500
Speaker 1: Kind of. Kind of, but rather than turning up a

408
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Speaker 1: bucket of water and mineral oil, you would plunge the iron,

409
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Speaker 1: the hot iron, into that bucket of mineral oil and water.

410
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Speaker 2: That's right. Very cool stuff.

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Speaker 1: Were you making a joke that I just missed? A reference? No. Okay.

412
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Speaker 2: No, I didn't know if you were saying the etymology

413
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Speaker 2: of the word quench was from smithing.

414
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Speaker 1: Oh, maybe.

415
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Speaker 2: And that when we quench our thirst, it's taken from that.

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Speaker 1: Maybe. It's possible. All right. I mean, smite, they think

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Speaker 1: that the words smite and smith are from the same word.

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Speaker 2: Right, because smite means very biblical meaning, or not meaning,

419
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: but they use a lot in Bible times to hit something, right?

420
00:21:42,060 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, to strike it, to smite something.

421
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Speaker 2: That's right, and that's what a smith does.

422
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Speaker 1: Smithies.

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Speaker 2: Should we talk about tools?

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Speaker 1: I think so. One of the cool things about blacksmiths

425
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Speaker 1: is that when you get good, you just start making

426
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Speaker 1: your own tools. Oh, man. Isn't that neat?

427
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Speaker 2: Tools to make tools. You got to start somewhere, though.

428
00:22:00,660 --> 00:22:02,379
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to lay down a little bit of

429
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Speaker 1: money first. But I saw this one blog post by

430
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Speaker 1: a blacksmith who's like, look, if you're just starting out,

431
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,609
Speaker 1: just get the bare minimum stuff. Get some used things.

432
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Speaker 1: See if you like it first. And then eventually when

433
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Speaker 1: you get good, you can invest a little money. And

434
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Speaker 1: then you can just start making your own stuff.

435
00:22:16,730 --> 00:22:18,730
Speaker 2: Right, which is very cool. I did see there was

436
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Speaker 2: one YouTube video that was like how to get going

437
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Speaker 2: for less than $ 100.

438
00:22:21,570 --> 00:22:22,780
Speaker 1: Oh, I'll bet, yeah.

439
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:23,630
Speaker 2: Some very basic stuff.

440
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,140
Speaker 1: Yeah.

441
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,699
Speaker 2: So if you're going to be a smithy, you're going

442
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,270
Speaker 2: to need some things. It might be less than $ 100

443
00:22:29,230 --> 00:22:32,510
Speaker 2: to start. You're going to need a forge, which is

444
00:22:33,170 --> 00:22:36,929
Speaker 2: the heat. There are different kinds. You know, the one

445
00:22:36,950 --> 00:22:38,419
Speaker 2: that I saw, the axe, this is sort of a,

446
00:22:38,450 --> 00:22:41,379
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's old-timey, but it was actually

447
00:22:41,660 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: using coal. And that's very appealing to the eye if

448
00:22:45,660 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: you're watching on YouTube. It seems like the backyard smithy

449
00:22:48,820 --> 00:22:53,859
Speaker 2: these days uses a gas-powered oven, a gas powered forge.

450
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: Were they using coal or charcoal? Because there's a big difference.

451
00:22:57,540 --> 00:22:58,020
Speaker 2: It was coal.

452
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 1: Okay. I didn't know much about charcoal until this. We'll

453
00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:02,590
Speaker 1: talk about it later.

454
00:23:03,070 --> 00:23:06,629
Speaker 2: But it seems like these days the gas powered forge

455
00:23:06,670 --> 00:23:08,830
Speaker 2: is kind of what you use. They're not very big.

456
00:23:08,930 --> 00:23:12,770
Speaker 2: It's sort of like a double size of a bread

457
00:23:12,810 --> 00:23:16,010
Speaker 2: box because when you're making something, you're not making, you're

458
00:23:16,030 --> 00:23:18,710
Speaker 2: not building a car out of iron. You're making a tool.

459
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,710
Speaker 2: You're making a a dagger or an axe head, like

460
00:23:21,730 --> 00:23:24,330
Speaker 2: they're all kind of small, something you can just sort

461
00:23:24,369 --> 00:23:27,109
Speaker 2: of stick in there. You're going to have your anvil.

462
00:23:28,250 --> 00:23:31,070
Speaker 2: Very key, very key piece. Yeah. You're going to have

463
00:23:31,090 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: a lot of other tools for like the more finesse work,

464
00:23:36,210 --> 00:23:38,959
Speaker 2: grinders and files and stuff like that. And you're going

465
00:23:38,980 --> 00:23:40,580
Speaker 2: to have a nice collection of hammers, of course.

466
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,300
Speaker 1: Yeah, you definitely, there's different hammers for different things. And

467
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,770
Speaker 1: like we said, you know, Hammering pig iron into wrought iron,

468
00:23:47,790 --> 00:23:49,670
Speaker 1: people don't do that these days. So you're not using

469
00:23:49,710 --> 00:23:51,430
Speaker 1: a sledgehammer. And so you're using like a little more

470
00:23:51,490 --> 00:23:56,230
Speaker 1: finesse and precision to kind of strike what's called the workpiece.

471
00:23:56,270 --> 00:23:59,429
Speaker 1: Whatever you're working on is called the workpiece. That's one

472
00:23:59,470 --> 00:24:01,389
Speaker 1: thing that really stood out to me watching some of

473
00:24:01,410 --> 00:24:03,889
Speaker 1: these blacksmith videos is like these guys do not miss.

474
00:24:04,550 --> 00:24:06,130
Speaker 1: At least if you're at the level where you're doing

475
00:24:06,190 --> 00:24:10,889
Speaker 1: close-ups of your work on video and posting them to YouTube,

476
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:13,770
Speaker 1: your hammer is not missing. It's going exactly where you

477
00:24:13,810 --> 00:24:15,750
Speaker 1: want it to every time, which is pretty cool too. Yeah.

478
00:24:16,020 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: It is, but I also, and this is not to

479
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,820
Speaker 2: knock the Smithies, it seems like a bit of a

480
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:23,060
Speaker 2: forgiving craft and art.

481
00:24:23,220 --> 00:24:24,370
Speaker 1: Sure.

482
00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:27,750
Speaker 2: So where you can sort of like if something didn't,

483
00:24:28,170 --> 00:24:29,609
Speaker 2: if you did strike in it and it kind of

484
00:24:29,650 --> 00:24:32,070
Speaker 2: did something you didn't quite like, you can change that.

485
00:24:32,550 --> 00:24:32,750
Speaker 1: Right.

486
00:24:32,810 --> 00:24:34,340
Speaker 2: You can restrike it. You can reheat it.

487
00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:36,030
Speaker 1: Yeah.

488
00:24:36,050 --> 00:24:37,689
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a lot of trial and error involved

489
00:24:37,710 --> 00:24:38,950
Speaker 2: when you're first getting started, you know.

490
00:24:39,470 --> 00:24:41,580
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure too. And then, you know, as you

491
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: keep advancing, you're figuring out new techniques and all that

492
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: kind of thing. But like you were saying, the anvil,

493
00:24:46,619 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: it's pretty neat. I didn't realize all the different parts

494
00:24:49,780 --> 00:24:52,540
Speaker 1: to it. Anybody who's seen a Wile E. Coyote cartoon

495
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,939
Speaker 1: can recognize an anvil and probably draw one from memory.

496
00:24:56,270 --> 00:24:59,110
Speaker 1: And you'd probably be pretty close. And that's a pretty

497
00:24:59,250 --> 00:25:02,510
Speaker 1: accurate image of what an anvil does. But all the

498
00:25:02,550 --> 00:25:05,469
Speaker 1: little different details from the point on the front to

499
00:25:05,490 --> 00:25:08,890
Speaker 1: the feet of it, all of those serve this kind

500
00:25:08,910 --> 00:25:13,010
Speaker 1: of group of purposes that come up pretty frequently in blacksmithing.

501
00:25:13,609 --> 00:25:18,010
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the anvil is super heavy. It is very hard, obviously.

502
00:25:18,530 --> 00:25:22,010
Speaker 2: You don't want the anvil itself to be dented or

503
00:25:22,190 --> 00:25:25,190
Speaker 2: start falling apart when you're swinging this heavy hammer on

504
00:25:25,270 --> 00:25:29,500
Speaker 2: metal on this thing or on iron. And so you

505
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,460
Speaker 2: also want it so it doesn't, like, just absorb the

506
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,020
Speaker 2: hammer blows too. So it's got to be the right

507
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,540
Speaker 2: amount of hardness. It can't be breaking. It can't be shattering.

508
00:25:37,980 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: You've got a horn on the front. You talked about

509
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 2: the pointy thing.

510
00:25:42,090 --> 00:25:42,209
Speaker 1: Yeah.

511
00:25:42,350 --> 00:25:44,689
Speaker 2: That's what's on the front of it. And usually in

512
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:46,470
Speaker 2: all the anvils I saw when I looked them up

513
00:25:46,530 --> 00:25:49,189
Speaker 2: to buy one just to have, although they were way

514
00:25:49,210 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 2: too expensive, it's got a little dip right before the

515
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: horn where the horn juts out. So the horn isn't

516
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,859
Speaker 2: exactly level with the regular base of the anvil. It's

517
00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:04,690
Speaker 2: down just a bit. And it's not by accident. That's

518
00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:07,930
Speaker 2: very much one of the big uses of the horn

519
00:26:07,970 --> 00:26:08,850
Speaker 2: is that little step down.

520
00:26:09,340 --> 00:26:11,740
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the neat things about anvils is

521
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:14,929
Speaker 1: like each little detail has a purpose, a larger purpose

522
00:26:14,970 --> 00:26:17,530
Speaker 1: that's hidden until you understand what you're looking at or

523
00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:18,189
Speaker 1: what it does.

524
00:26:18,430 --> 00:26:19,129
Speaker 2: What about those holes?

525
00:26:19,950 --> 00:26:22,850
Speaker 1: There's like two holes in every anvil pretty much. One's

526
00:26:22,910 --> 00:26:25,020
Speaker 1: round and one's square. And the round one is called

527
00:26:25,060 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: a pritchel hole. And it is basically a hole so

528
00:26:28,380 --> 00:26:33,260
Speaker 1: that you can punch holes into whatever workpiece you're working on.

529
00:26:34,220 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: I saw that if you're punching a hole, you actually

530
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,180
Speaker 1: want to punch it on the face of the anvil,

531
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: which is the top. Punch it on one side, almost

532
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: all the way through. Flip it over, punch it on

533
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: the other side, almost all the way through. And then

534
00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: you move it to the pritchel hole. And then that's

535
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,650
Speaker 1: when you widen it to the shape you want. So

536
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:52,350
Speaker 1: it just allows you to punch a hole all the

537
00:26:52,369 --> 00:26:55,109
Speaker 1: way through without harming the face of your anvil, really.

538
00:26:55,369 --> 00:26:57,230
Speaker 2: Yeah. That was one of my favorite parts of the

539
00:26:57,270 --> 00:27:01,330
Speaker 2: video I saw because that was where the axe head

540
00:27:01,530 --> 00:27:04,230
Speaker 2: hole went where you would, you know, put the axe handle.

541
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:05,130
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah.

542
00:27:05,150 --> 00:27:06,290
Speaker 2: So I was like, how are you going to do that?

543
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 2: And just to see it happen in front of your eyes,

544
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:09,580
Speaker 2: it was pretty awesome.

545
00:27:10,140 --> 00:27:11,660
Speaker 1: And then what's the other hole, the hardy hole?

546
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,620
Speaker 2: Yeah, the hardy hole is actually square.

547
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:15,580
Speaker 1: With the D?

548
00:27:16,540 --> 00:27:18,220
Speaker 2: Yes, H-A-R-D-Y.

549
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

550
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,859
Speaker 2: Yes, it's not hardy because it's very tough, although it

551
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:24,540
Speaker 2: is very tough. Sure. But it is a square hole,

552
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 2: which sounds counterintuitive, but it's not. And you can put

553
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: tools in there that allow you, like you might stick

554
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,990
Speaker 2: something in there and then use that to then bend the,

555
00:27:36,570 --> 00:27:39,570
Speaker 2: the hot iron around to make different bends and cuts

556
00:27:39,630 --> 00:27:40,470
Speaker 2: and shapes and things.

557
00:27:40,930 --> 00:27:42,790
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw this one tool in a couple of

558
00:27:42,830 --> 00:27:45,330
Speaker 1: different videos that fit into the hardy hole. The hardy

559
00:27:45,369 --> 00:27:47,669
Speaker 1: hole is almost like a Dremel tool, right? So like

560
00:27:47,690 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: there's all these different things you can put in that

561
00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:54,139
Speaker 1: square hole that hold it in place. But the difference

562
00:27:54,180 --> 00:27:57,290
Speaker 1: between them is what tool is attached to that square peg.

563
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:57,730
Speaker 2: That's right.

564
00:27:58,010 --> 00:28:01,830
Speaker 1: Square peg, square, square peg. That's right. And one of

565
00:28:01,869 --> 00:28:03,610
Speaker 1: the ones that I saw looked like a tuning fork.

566
00:28:03,650 --> 00:28:05,929
Speaker 1: It's like two rods that are very close together.

567
00:28:05,950 --> 00:28:06,369
Speaker 2: I saw that.

568
00:28:06,410 --> 00:28:10,820
Speaker 1: And you could put like a hot workpiece in between

569
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,419
Speaker 1: them and then, you know, bend it so you can

570
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,980
Speaker 1: make like an S hook. It's used for like very tight,

571
00:28:16,380 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: creating very tight curves in the workpiece.

572
00:28:19,180 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 2: Yes. Very, very cool.

573
00:28:21,020 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

574
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,389
Speaker 2: You got to have your tongs. Oh, and I think

575
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:26,750
Speaker 2: we should have mentioned, too, the anvil, it doesn't have

576
00:28:26,770 --> 00:28:29,450
Speaker 2: a sharp edge. Like the edge all the way around

577
00:28:29,470 --> 00:28:31,530
Speaker 2: the main work base of the anvil is a little

578
00:28:31,550 --> 00:28:34,850
Speaker 2: bit round because, you know, if you've got something super

579
00:28:34,890 --> 00:28:37,030
Speaker 2: sharp and you're hammering away, it's going to make little

580
00:28:37,090 --> 00:28:38,570
Speaker 2: creases in the iron. You don't want that.

581
00:28:38,910 --> 00:28:41,770
Speaker 1: I think the step is the sharpest edge of the

582
00:28:41,810 --> 00:28:44,150
Speaker 1: whole thing between the horn and the face, the top

583
00:28:44,190 --> 00:28:44,310
Speaker 1: of it.

584
00:28:44,350 --> 00:28:46,950
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's where you need it to be sharp.

585
00:28:47,610 --> 00:28:50,250
Speaker 1: One other thing I saw that I thought was really

586
00:28:50,290 --> 00:28:53,310
Speaker 1: interesting is when you buy an anvil, you want to

587
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:57,450
Speaker 1: actually fit it to a block of wood. And traditionally,

588
00:28:57,490 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: people will use like a good tree stump of wood

589
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: that doesn't split very easily. And like, man, you fasten

590
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: it to that wood, that tree stump, and then you

591
00:29:07,180 --> 00:29:10,300
Speaker 1: bury the tree stump whenever you can about three feet

592
00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:15,290
Speaker 1: into the ground. So that the anvil becomes part of

593
00:29:15,310 --> 00:29:17,630
Speaker 1: the tree stump, becomes part of the ground. Yeah. So

594
00:29:17,650 --> 00:29:21,110
Speaker 1: it distributes that extra energy that gets lost rather than

595
00:29:21,170 --> 00:29:24,010
Speaker 1: back up at you down into the ground where it's absorbed,

596
00:29:24,030 --> 00:29:27,490
Speaker 1: which I just find absolutely fascinating. But you make it

597
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: so well fastened to the stump that the stump and

598
00:29:30,380 --> 00:29:32,700
Speaker 1: the anvil become basically one.

599
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the anvil is essentially connected to the

600
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: earth at that point.

601
00:29:36,300 --> 00:29:40,950
Speaker 1: So nice. This just, man. I just keep thinking of

602
00:29:41,030 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: Thor and Led Zeppelin.

603
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: I know all the things J.R.R.

604
00:29:45,020 --> 00:29:49,700
Speaker 3: Tolkien yeah the smithy you gotta have those tongs and

605
00:29:49,740 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 3: these are not like grill tongs that you have on

606
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 3: your back porch these are those big thick metal.

607
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,490
Speaker 2: Iron they look like like like Gussied up nail clippers almost.

608
00:30:02,350 --> 00:30:04,190
Speaker 2: And that's what you're going to use to put stuff

609
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:06,590
Speaker 2: in the forge and that fire and pull it out.

610
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:10,890
Speaker 2: It's funny here. Ed says that pretty much no one

611
00:30:10,910 --> 00:30:13,870
Speaker 2: wears gloves. I didn't see that. I saw plenty of

612
00:30:13,890 --> 00:30:15,310
Speaker 2: videos with people wearing gloves.

613
00:30:15,570 --> 00:30:16,130
Speaker 1: I saw both.

614
00:30:16,730 --> 00:30:18,710
Speaker 2: And I saw some where they didn't. I guess sometimes

615
00:30:19,370 --> 00:30:21,590
Speaker 2: if you're working really near the heat, you might want

616
00:30:21,610 --> 00:30:23,650
Speaker 2: your gloves on, but you might also want to have

617
00:30:23,710 --> 00:30:26,270
Speaker 2: the hand feel during that finesse work.

618
00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:28,820
Speaker 1: Yeah, because, and I think it's worth saying one more

619
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,900
Speaker 1: time that, that, that, um, forge where the fire is, it's,

620
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it is very small. I saw as little

621
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: as like a six by six inch, um, like little

622
00:30:37,580 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: area of extraordinarily intense heat. So it's a small area

623
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,980
Speaker 1: of heat, but the heat that is there is so hot,

624
00:30:44,530 --> 00:30:49,250
Speaker 1: it can turn iron white hot. So yeah, you want

625
00:30:49,270 --> 00:30:50,810
Speaker 1: to not get too close to it. And even when

626
00:30:50,830 --> 00:30:52,810
Speaker 1: you're wearing tongs, it's smart to wear gloves from what

627
00:30:52,850 --> 00:30:53,510
Speaker 1: I saw. Yeah.

628
00:30:53,550 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: We, we never really talked much about the fuel, um,

629
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: Like I said, these days they power it with gas mainly.

630
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,550
Speaker 2: Back in the day, they would use charcoal. That was

631
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:06,950
Speaker 2: the first thing. And charcoal, apparently, if you're going to

632
00:31:06,990 --> 00:31:09,550
Speaker 2: be a Brooklyn hipster, you want to work with charcoal

633
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:13,650
Speaker 2: because that is the superior product and the superior fuel.

634
00:31:13,730 --> 00:31:15,110
Speaker 2: But it's really messy.

635
00:31:15,770 --> 00:31:16,510
Speaker 1: Very wasteful.

636
00:31:16,610 --> 00:31:19,940
Speaker 2: It's very wasteful. It's expensive. It takes a lot of

637
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,620
Speaker 2: wood to make charcoal. So then coal comes rolling around.

638
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: And there was a lot of coal, and it was

639
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,950
Speaker 2: super cheap. And they had to kind of rebuild their forges.

640
00:31:29,450 --> 00:31:32,630
Speaker 2: But coal, even though it has some impurities like sulfur

641
00:31:32,650 --> 00:31:35,010
Speaker 2: and stuff in there, they basically kind of made the

642
00:31:35,050 --> 00:31:37,170
Speaker 2: big switch to coal at a certain point in time.

643
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:39,790
Speaker 1: Yeah. And even better is if you can get your

644
00:31:39,810 --> 00:31:44,630
Speaker 1: hands on coke, which is a derivative of coal, just

645
00:31:44,650 --> 00:31:47,450
Speaker 1: like charcoal is a derivative of wood. It's just wood

646
00:31:47,490 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: with the sap and the water burned out. So it's

647
00:31:49,620 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: a really energy dense form of it. Coke is the

648
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: same thing with coal. It's got the impurities generally burned out.

649
00:31:55,140 --> 00:32:00,190
Speaker 1: So it's an pure energy-dense form of coal. But both

650
00:32:00,230 --> 00:32:02,990
Speaker 1: of them play a really important role in that they

651
00:32:03,130 --> 00:32:06,380
Speaker 1: produce really high temperatures, but they also introduce a lot

652
00:32:06,410 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: of that carbon that gets absorbed into the iron at

653
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: those high temperatures, which produces better, harder, stronger steel.

654
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,180
Speaker 2: Can you cook with that stuff? Can you cook with Coke?

655
00:32:15,620 --> 00:32:18,340
Speaker 1: Cook with Coke? I don't know.

656
00:32:18,460 --> 00:32:20,900
Speaker 2: Like in a Kamada, like egg-type cooker?

657
00:32:21,310 --> 00:32:23,230
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's one thing that I saw in

658
00:32:23,390 --> 00:32:25,810
Speaker 1: one of these blog posts about different types of fuel.

659
00:32:26,150 --> 00:32:28,030
Speaker 1: I think it was like the no BS, but they

660
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:29,790
Speaker 1: spell out the word BS, which I'm not going to

661
00:32:29,810 --> 00:32:36,260
Speaker 1: say here. Because they're blacksmiths. The no BS guide to

662
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: different kinds of fuel. They said one of the things

663
00:32:38,420 --> 00:32:41,140
Speaker 1: to consider is what kind of environmental impact is your

664
00:32:41,180 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: fuel having? Right. So that's a good question. If you're like,

665
00:32:44,540 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I should be cooking with this. Don't forget,

666
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,540
Speaker 1: you're going to be in a small enclosed room that's

667
00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:52,470
Speaker 1: your blacksmith shop. with that same stuff. And you probably

668
00:32:52,490 --> 00:32:55,150
Speaker 1: have a pretty high-efficiency chimney, but some of it's still

669
00:32:55,170 --> 00:32:57,590
Speaker 1: coming back. So that's definitely a consideration to think of,

670
00:32:57,970 --> 00:33:00,690
Speaker 1: your own health and the health of Mother Earth, who

671
00:33:00,780 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: is absorbing the blows from your anvil.

672
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: That's right. You do need good ventilation in your workshop,

673
00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: eye protection. Sometimes if you really want to kick it

674
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,500
Speaker 2: old school, you might have one of those leather aprons,

675
00:33:11,740 --> 00:33:14,860
Speaker 2: like a leather face. And then your quench. You know,

676
00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: we talked about quenching. It's called a quench or a

677
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,470
Speaker 2: quench bucket. And that is the bucket with the water and,

678
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,300
Speaker 2: like you said, sometimes mineral oil these days where you'll

679
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 2: plunge it in there just like on TV and in

680
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,860
Speaker 2: movies when it makes that great steamy sound and the

681
00:33:30,940 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: steam rises everywhere and they pull out a beautiful battle

682
00:33:34,340 --> 00:33:35,820
Speaker 2: axe or long sword.

683
00:33:36,460 --> 00:33:41,100
Speaker 1: Yeah. Apparently, so it's not that surprising when you consider samurai,

684
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: but the Japanese were really, really good at creating high

685
00:33:44,940 --> 00:33:50,340
Speaker 1: carbon steel blades. Yeah. And there's one guy named Goro, G-O-R-O,

686
00:33:50,460 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: who is like, well, widely considered the greatest Japanese swordsmith

687
00:33:54,740 --> 00:33:56,730
Speaker 1: of all time from back in the 13th century.

688
00:33:56,910 --> 00:33:58,830
Speaker 2: So he can throw together a katana, no problem?

689
00:33:59,910 --> 00:34:00,490
Speaker 1: No problem.

690
00:34:02,910 --> 00:34:03,650
Speaker 2: Should we take a break?

691
00:34:04,050 --> 00:34:04,870
Speaker 1: Yeah. All right.

692
00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:06,270
Speaker 2: We're going to take a break and talk a little

693
00:34:06,290 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: bit about and get quite a bit wrong probably about

694
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,339
Speaker 2: techniques right after this.

695
00:34:32,610 --> 00:34:33,230
Speaker 1: Know.

696
00:34:33,550 --> 00:34:40,509
Speaker 2: Stuff you should know. Stuff you should know.

697
00:34:41,070 --> 00:34:44,730
Speaker 1: All right. Let the parade of misinformation begin.

698
00:34:45,110 --> 00:34:48,250
Speaker 2: You know, these worry me more than other episodes that

699
00:34:48,290 --> 00:34:51,090
Speaker 2: we do when it's something very technical and very specific.

700
00:34:51,390 --> 00:34:53,540
Speaker 1: Because these guys make battle axes. Yeah.

701
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,580
Speaker 2: And anytime it's a very specific craft or something that

702
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: you haven't done, like we haven't done, you can research

703
00:34:59,980 --> 00:35:02,580
Speaker 2: it and watch videos and do your best. But Until

704
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,660
Speaker 2: you've actually done it, you can't get it 100% right.

705
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,980
Speaker 1: I will say, though, the videos help tremendously.

706
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure.

707
00:35:09,860 --> 00:35:12,540
Speaker 1: If, like, this is even remotely interesting to you, and

708
00:35:12,580 --> 00:35:15,300
Speaker 1: hopefully it is if you're, you know, this many minutes,

709
00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 1: 33 minutes or so into this podcast that it is,

710
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,020
Speaker 1: go watch some videos. There's a bunch of them on there,

711
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 1: and I think you're going to be like, oh, okay,

712
00:35:23,860 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: I get what they were saying there. Oh, that makes sense.

713
00:35:25,890 --> 00:35:27,690
Speaker 2: Forging a bearded axe. That's the one.

714
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: I've got one, Black Bear Forge.

715
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:32,740
Speaker 2: Oh, boy.

716
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,620
Speaker 1: This giant man with a giant beard and a tiny

717
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:37,620
Speaker 1: little leather cap.

718
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:38,930
Speaker 2: And his name is Black Bear Forge?

719
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:42,750
Speaker 1: Which is adorable, yeah. The video I watched is called

720
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:45,629
Speaker 1: Scarf Theory and Making Chain, which we'll talk about that

721
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:48,489
Speaker 1: in a minute. But it's just amazing.

722
00:35:49,370 --> 00:35:51,250
Speaker 2: So cool. And like you said, I don't want to

723
00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:54,170
Speaker 2: do it. I want to have a friend that does it.

724
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:57,819
Speaker 2: I want to come over to their house and watch

725
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: them do it.

726
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,940
Speaker 1: Like, let's see if we can get John Hodgman into it. Yeah, Hodgman.

727
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,060
Speaker 2: Although, he's got very strong forearms.

728
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,820
Speaker 1: He does, freakishly, like Popeye.

729
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: All right, so here's some of the techniques. What you're

730
00:36:11,340 --> 00:36:14,339
Speaker 2: doing if you're a smithy is you are shaping hot metal.

731
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,739
Speaker 2: That's what it comes down to. And this is where

732
00:36:17,780 --> 00:36:24,300
Speaker 2: the temperature of the metal becomes really important because certain

733
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,860
Speaker 2: metals have to be at certain temperatures to do certain things.

734
00:36:27,950 --> 00:36:31,490
Speaker 2: These days, like I said, if you've got your gas-powered forge,

735
00:36:31,950 --> 00:36:35,290
Speaker 2: you can set that baby on whatever exact temperature you want.

736
00:36:35,950 --> 00:36:40,089
Speaker 2: And it's not quite as– it's still very impressive. But

737
00:36:40,650 --> 00:36:42,450
Speaker 2: back in the day when they were using coal and charcoal,

738
00:36:42,469 --> 00:36:46,710
Speaker 2: there was, I feel like, much more intuition and trial

739
00:36:46,750 --> 00:36:50,870
Speaker 2: and error and actually looking at the color temperature because

740
00:36:50,930 --> 00:36:53,810
Speaker 2: the metal will turn different colors at different temperatures.

741
00:36:54,130 --> 00:36:57,870
Speaker 1: Right. So there's white hot, orange hot, yellow hot, red hot,

742
00:36:58,070 --> 00:37:01,910
Speaker 1: different kinds of gradients of orange and yellow and white too.

743
00:37:02,170 --> 00:37:04,230
Speaker 1: There's glowing white, which is the hottest.

744
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:06,950
Speaker 2: Those aren't just expressions people say. No.

745
00:37:07,070 --> 00:37:15,380
Speaker 1: And that's, again, that's the etymology of blacksmith lingo, basically,

746
00:37:15,420 --> 00:37:16,720
Speaker 1: that has made it into.

747
00:37:16,820 --> 00:37:17,300
Speaker 2: White hot.

748
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

749
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:19,980
Speaker 2: Red hot.

750
00:37:20,219 --> 00:37:23,609
Speaker 1: Those abs of yours are white hot. Oh, wait, that

751
00:37:23,630 --> 00:37:29,370
Speaker 1: was a different episode. Yeah, that's right. But apparently blue-white-hot

752
00:37:29,610 --> 00:37:32,270
Speaker 1: is the hottest of all, but you don't typically see

753
00:37:32,290 --> 00:37:35,419
Speaker 1: that in blacksmithing. White-hot is about as hot as you get.

754
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:36,660
Speaker 2: And how hot is white-hot?

755
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,700
Speaker 1: White-hot, from what I saw, is 2,550 degrees Fahrenheit, which

756
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,020
Speaker 1: is super high in Celsius.

757
00:37:44,739 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: Okay. Yellow, I think, is just below that. Yeah. And

758
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:53,110
Speaker 2: then you've got orange. Right. And then you've got lame-o red-hot,

759
00:37:53,210 --> 00:37:56,779
Speaker 2: which is only 1,400 degrees.

760
00:37:56,780 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: 760 Celsius.

761
00:37:57,820 --> 00:38:00,300
Speaker 2: And you can't do anything with red-hot.

762
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,140
Speaker 1: That's actually not true. You can do some very limited stuff.

763
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 1: But at that point, the iron is, I mean, it'll

764
00:38:06,940 --> 00:38:10,339
Speaker 1: probably bend a little bit. I saw good old Black

765
00:38:10,390 --> 00:38:13,210
Speaker 1: Bear Forge was making some chain with what looked to

766
00:38:13,250 --> 00:38:17,330
Speaker 1: be red-hot iron at the time. And he was bending

767
00:38:17,390 --> 00:38:19,270
Speaker 1: it pretty good. But, I mean, I'm not the best

768
00:38:19,330 --> 00:38:20,270
Speaker 1: judge of color.

769
00:38:20,510 --> 00:38:21,229
Speaker 2: He was making chain?

770
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:24,670
Speaker 1: Yes. I'm just going to, I'm not going to wait

771
00:38:24,690 --> 00:38:30,070
Speaker 1: any longer. This guy made a chain, a length of chain. Perfect.

772
00:38:30,190 --> 00:38:33,009
Speaker 1: Each length was exactly the size of the last. Oh, God.

773
00:38:33,210 --> 00:38:35,650
Speaker 1: He was making them like in threes and then connecting

774
00:38:35,690 --> 00:38:39,089
Speaker 1: those threes to other threes. And he was using the horse. Chuck,

775
00:38:39,130 --> 00:38:40,810
Speaker 1: are you about to.

776
00:38:40,860 --> 00:38:45,660
Speaker 2: Climax or something? No, it's just so satisfying. It touches

777
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,740
Speaker 2: these parts of my body. You know, it's not sexual

778
00:38:48,780 --> 00:38:49,020
Speaker 2: at all.

779
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:49,660
Speaker 1: Right.

780
00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?

781
00:38:51,020 --> 00:38:54,339
Speaker 1: Oh, I know what you're saying. I know exactly what

782
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: you mean.

783
00:38:54,540 --> 00:38:56,430
Speaker 2: Although I haven't seen it. You never know what might happen.

784
00:38:56,969 --> 00:38:59,130
Speaker 1: Right. But this guy, so you know the horn of

785
00:38:59,150 --> 00:38:59,910
Speaker 1: the anvil, right?

786
00:39:00,210 --> 00:39:00,670
Speaker 2: Oh, do I?

787
00:39:01,250 --> 00:39:04,590
Speaker 1: He would make like, he would bend the chain initially

788
00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:06,770
Speaker 1: on kind of like a thick, about the middle part

789
00:39:06,790 --> 00:39:09,070
Speaker 1: of the horn. And then he would bend it even further,

790
00:39:09,130 --> 00:39:10,670
Speaker 1: moving it a little up the horn. And this guy

791
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: just so expertly put it exactly where he needed it

792
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,100
Speaker 1: to be. I think one of the things I like

793
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,660
Speaker 1: about Black Bear Forge guy is that he doesn't seem

794
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,420
Speaker 1: the least bit pretentious. I'm pretty sure he lives in Minnesota.

795
00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:27,750
Speaker 1: He's not wearing his little leather cap, ironically. He seems

796
00:39:27,790 --> 00:39:29,509
Speaker 1: very helpful. He was born in that cap. He's making

797
00:39:29,530 --> 00:39:32,339
Speaker 1: these videos to help. Yeah, I think you might be right.

798
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 1: And with a white beard. I think he was born

799
00:39:35,380 --> 00:39:36,460
Speaker 1: with a white beard as well.

800
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: Well, when you watch this bearded axe thing, what this

801
00:39:40,620 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: guy does is he starts with a block of iron

802
00:39:44,620 --> 00:39:47,530
Speaker 2: and then eventually makes an axe head. But he's hammering

803
00:39:47,570 --> 00:39:50,529
Speaker 2: this thing out. He's using this little rolling tool and

804
00:39:50,570 --> 00:39:52,930
Speaker 2: hammering that as he's kind of rolling it forward. And

805
00:39:52,969 --> 00:39:55,930
Speaker 2: it's almost like, kind of reminded me of baking, like

806
00:39:55,969 --> 00:39:58,310
Speaker 2: the way you would use a rolling pin to smooth

807
00:39:58,370 --> 00:40:01,270
Speaker 2: out dough. And then when it came time to actually

808
00:40:01,330 --> 00:40:04,930
Speaker 2: make the sharp part, I guess what he was doing

809
00:40:04,989 --> 00:40:07,549
Speaker 2: was forge welding. And we're kind of jumping around, but

810
00:40:07,570 --> 00:40:09,980
Speaker 2: this is one of the techniques. And it's also called

811
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,500
Speaker 2: fire welding. And that's when you combine different grades of

812
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,620
Speaker 2: iron and steel, and you're joining these things together in

813
00:40:17,660 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: multiple shapes together. I think that's what was going on

814
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 2: because what he did, he had this axe head and

815
00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 2: the sharp part he split. And I was like, well, dude,

816
00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:29,780
Speaker 2: what kind of an axe is that? That's crazy looking.

817
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,980
Speaker 2: I thought he messed up. But then he put some

818
00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: other kind of metal in between and would use this.

819
00:40:35,380 --> 00:40:39,540
Speaker 2: And from what I gathered, it's, where is it? Flux?

820
00:40:39,739 --> 00:40:40,410
Speaker 2: Is that what it is?

821
00:40:41,140 --> 00:40:43,350
Speaker 1: Flux. Yeah. Like sand. Did it look like sand?

822
00:40:43,650 --> 00:40:45,130
Speaker 2: Well, it was in a bottle and it looked like

823
00:40:45,170 --> 00:40:47,209
Speaker 2: a little sandy chemical. So I guess that's what it was.

824
00:40:47,310 --> 00:40:49,620
Speaker 2: And he would. heat it up, and then spray this

825
00:40:49,660 --> 00:40:52,370
Speaker 2: stuff on it and hammer it together, heat it up,

826
00:40:52,450 --> 00:40:55,230
Speaker 2: spray some of this, and hammer it until that metal

827
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:58,810
Speaker 2: becomes one. And the really, you know, the super specific

828
00:40:58,870 --> 00:41:01,830
Speaker 2: metal that he needed for the sharp axe blade was

829
00:41:02,130 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 2: melded with the rest of that iron to where you

830
00:41:04,820 --> 00:41:07,219
Speaker 2: couldn't even tell. It was just like they became one

831
00:41:07,540 --> 00:41:08,140
Speaker 2: with one another.

832
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 1: He was probably reinforcing the axe head with a stronger...

833
00:41:15,210 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 1: a stronger type of iron. Totally, yeah. So there's slightly

834
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,220
Speaker 1: different carbon content. And then the outside was a harder kind,

835
00:41:21,300 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: so it resisted surface deformities. But the interior stuff was strength,

836
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,569
Speaker 1: was strong, so it resisted breaking. Probably, but he was

837
00:41:30,730 --> 00:41:34,650
Speaker 1: making these two one. I saw Black Bear Forge do

838
00:41:34,670 --> 00:41:37,290
Speaker 1: the same thing with the chains. Yes. He was using

839
00:41:37,350 --> 00:41:42,250
Speaker 1: a scarf weld where you make one end angled and

840
00:41:42,270 --> 00:41:43,969
Speaker 1: then you make the other end that it's going to

841
00:41:44,010 --> 00:41:46,190
Speaker 1: join to angled in the opposite direction so they kind

842
00:41:46,210 --> 00:41:48,410
Speaker 1: of fit tightly together. And then he would heat it

843
00:41:48,489 --> 00:41:51,029
Speaker 1: up and hammer it together and it just became one.

844
00:41:51,350 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: But he used flux as well. And from what I

845
00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:57,340
Speaker 1: could tell, when you use flux like sand or borax,

846
00:41:57,380 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: I think is something you can use, it prevents that

847
00:42:01,100 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: joint from oxidizing, which makes it a stronger... a stronger joint,

848
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,660
Speaker 1: a stronger seam rather than kind of a compromised seam.

849
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,980
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was also interesting to see how this

850
00:42:13,020 --> 00:42:16,469
Speaker 2: guy would, sometimes that block was out for quite a

851
00:42:16,489 --> 00:42:19,310
Speaker 2: long time of hammering and shaping and hammering and shaping.

852
00:42:19,930 --> 00:42:21,509
Speaker 2: And then it looked like when he got into the

853
00:42:21,550 --> 00:42:24,750
Speaker 2: little more detailed work as it became an axe head,

854
00:42:24,910 --> 00:42:26,910
Speaker 2: he would put it in the fire and he would

855
00:42:26,930 --> 00:42:29,660
Speaker 2: turn around very quickly and start hammering. You could tell

856
00:42:29,739 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: he wanted to do it very fast.

857
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:31,580
Speaker 1: Right.

858
00:42:31,660 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: And he would hammer it for like 10 seconds and

859
00:42:33,180 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 2: then put it right back in the fire.

860
00:42:34,260 --> 00:42:34,780
Speaker 1: Yeah.

861
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 2: And then pull it out and hammer it really fast

862
00:42:36,380 --> 00:42:38,779
Speaker 2: for 10 seconds. So whatever he was doing at that

863
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,250
Speaker 2: point required a super, super, super hot piece of, what

864
00:42:43,270 --> 00:42:44,509
Speaker 2: do you call it, ground piece?

865
00:42:45,010 --> 00:42:45,410
Speaker 1: Work piece.

866
00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:45,870
Speaker 2: Work piece.

867
00:42:46,330 --> 00:42:50,110
Speaker 1: Yeah. But, I mean, so most blacksmiths, you'll notice in

868
00:42:50,130 --> 00:42:52,489
Speaker 1: their shops, they set the forge and the anvil up

869
00:42:52,510 --> 00:42:53,950
Speaker 1: within just twisting distance.

870
00:42:54,210 --> 00:42:54,370
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.

871
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:56,410
Speaker 1: Like you're standing in one place moving from one to

872
00:42:56,450 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: the other so that you can lose as little heat

873
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,660
Speaker 1: as possible when you transfer it out of the fire.

874
00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 2: You don't walk across your shop.

875
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: No, you don't stop and like make a sandwich or anything.

876
00:43:05,940 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 2: There's also drawing, which is drawing that metal out into

877
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,580
Speaker 2: a longer, thinner shape. You might be shaping something into

878
00:43:14,620 --> 00:43:17,710
Speaker 2: a rod or a block into a blade like I saw.

879
00:43:18,350 --> 00:43:23,150
Speaker 2: And that's sort of lengthening it without flattening it out.

880
00:43:23,710 --> 00:43:23,870
Speaker 1: Right.

881
00:43:23,930 --> 00:43:25,850
Speaker 2: Because you can also flatten it. That's another thing. That's

882
00:43:25,870 --> 00:43:26,710
Speaker 2: called peening. Peening.

883
00:43:27,460 --> 00:43:30,980
Speaker 1: Yeah. There's also upsetting, which is the opposite of drawing,

884
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:36,509
Speaker 1: where you shorten the length of iron or steel by

885
00:43:36,590 --> 00:43:39,130
Speaker 1: hammering it. And that's what happens when you make a nail.

886
00:43:39,690 --> 00:43:41,250
Speaker 1: Would you want to talk about making nails here?

887
00:43:42,250 --> 00:43:44,950
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, we kind of mentioned earlier, you know,

888
00:43:44,969 --> 00:43:47,890
Speaker 2: the foundation. I mean, there were things that were built

889
00:43:48,510 --> 00:43:53,180
Speaker 2: with dovetail joints and corn cobs to keep logs together.

890
00:43:53,300 --> 00:43:56,419
Speaker 2: And there were technologies like that. But If you really

891
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,739
Speaker 2: want to talk about the building of the world, you

892
00:43:59,780 --> 00:44:04,190
Speaker 2: got to talk about iron nails and how many millions

893
00:44:04,270 --> 00:44:08,350
Speaker 2: and tens and millions of iron nails that were made

894
00:44:08,510 --> 00:44:10,630
Speaker 2: in the world by hand, by people.

895
00:44:11,630 --> 00:44:15,450
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, before industrialization, they were all made by hand.

896
00:44:15,989 --> 00:44:18,689
Speaker 1: And it's apparently harder to make them than you would think.

897
00:44:19,130 --> 00:44:22,610
Speaker 1: I watched a video by a blacksmith named Nick Kimball

898
00:44:23,210 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: on Instructables. And I guess his brother writes for Instructables

899
00:44:26,580 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: and interviewed him. And he's like a blacksmith at one

900
00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: of the colonial model farms. Yeah. I think maybe Mount Vernon.

901
00:44:33,460 --> 00:44:37,590
Speaker 1: They didn't say. No, I met that guy. So he

902
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,490
Speaker 1: looks like it too. He looks like a cool dude.

903
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:43,310
Speaker 1: But he showed how to make a nail. And he

904
00:44:43,350 --> 00:44:45,330
Speaker 1: says he can make one a minute. And this guy

905
00:44:45,370 --> 00:44:48,549
Speaker 1: is an advanced blacksmith. Like he has a job as

906
00:44:48,590 --> 00:44:50,770
Speaker 1: a blacksmith. That's how advanced this guy is in the

907
00:44:51,170 --> 00:44:55,260
Speaker 1: 21st century. And he can make one a minute. Apparently,

908
00:44:55,300 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: blacksmiths of yore could make 10 to a dozen of

909
00:44:58,780 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: them a minute. And it's very involved. You actually have

910
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,130
Speaker 1: to make the tool first to make the nails. So

911
00:45:07,170 --> 00:45:09,089
Speaker 1: you take an iron bar, flatten that, punch a hole

912
00:45:09,150 --> 00:45:12,029
Speaker 1: in it using your pritchel hole and a punch. And

913
00:45:12,070 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 1: then you take nail rod, little strips of the iron

914
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:21,290
Speaker 1: that's going to be nails, heat it up. hammer a

915
00:45:21,370 --> 00:45:23,750
Speaker 1: shoulder into it on the edge of the anvil so

916
00:45:23,780 --> 00:45:28,530
Speaker 1: that there's like a, it's narrower for the bulk of it.

917
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: And then up top, it just kind of is a

918
00:45:30,380 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: little wider and boxy. And then you put it into

919
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,980
Speaker 1: the hole of the tool that you made and then

920
00:45:36,020 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 1: you heat it up and you hammer the head a

921
00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:40,549
Speaker 1: bunch of times to flatten it. That's what you have

922
00:45:40,570 --> 00:45:43,770
Speaker 1: to do to make one single nail. And some blacksmiths

923
00:45:43,969 --> 00:45:46,430
Speaker 1: in the days of yore could make a dozen of

924
00:45:46,489 --> 00:45:49,230
Speaker 1: those in a minute. That's how good they were at it.

925
00:45:49,860 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 2: Unbelievable.

926
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,460
Speaker 1: I would have charged so much for nails, it would

927
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:59,100
Speaker 1: have been astronomical. I would have been like, no, I will, like,

928
00:45:59,140 --> 00:46:01,060
Speaker 1: let's make you some chain mail instead. What do you

929
00:46:01,100 --> 00:46:04,180
Speaker 1: need nails for? Let's do something cool. And they'd say,

930
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: you know, I need to build a second story in

931
00:46:05,780 --> 00:46:07,779
Speaker 1: my house. I'd be like, all right, it's going to

932
00:46:07,820 --> 00:46:08,339
Speaker 1: cost you.

933
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:10,140
Speaker 2: The Josh nail?

934
00:46:11,260 --> 00:46:11,470
Speaker 1: Yeah.

935
00:46:11,570 --> 00:46:12,469
Speaker 2: The Josh Clark special?

936
00:46:12,850 --> 00:46:15,189
Speaker 1: Because it would not be fun to make nails, for sure.

937
00:46:16,050 --> 00:46:17,450
Speaker 2: No, but boy, they made a lot of them.

938
00:46:17,469 --> 00:46:18,290
Speaker 1: They did.

939
00:46:18,590 --> 00:46:20,930
Speaker 2: There are also some other techniques. There's bending we've kind

940
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:24,650
Speaker 2: of already talked about when you're creating curves and things.

941
00:46:25,130 --> 00:46:31,529
Speaker 2: I mentioned the staircase irons, how they're twisted around. That

942
00:46:31,590 --> 00:46:35,270
Speaker 2: is done with a square bar, which is a bar

943
00:46:35,350 --> 00:46:38,169
Speaker 2: with a square hole in it. And that's placed over

944
00:46:38,190 --> 00:46:41,330
Speaker 2: a square rod of hot iron. And then you turn

945
00:46:41,390 --> 00:46:43,850
Speaker 2: that square. You basically, sort of like that Dremel you

946
00:46:43,870 --> 00:46:47,549
Speaker 2: were talking about, you stick that hot thing into the hole.

947
00:46:47,980 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 2: And you twist it around and you create those little twists.

948
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,230
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, every time it's a blacksmith tradition, you say,

949
00:46:54,590 --> 00:46:59,109
Speaker 1: et voila. You got anything else?

950
00:46:59,590 --> 00:47:02,720
Speaker 2: I don't have anything else. I know we got stuff

951
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,340
Speaker 2: not quite right, but hopefully the Smithies, hopefully our enthusiasm

952
00:47:06,860 --> 00:47:07,379
Speaker 2: won them over.

953
00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's hope so.

954
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:10,140
Speaker 2: Are they coming after us?

955
00:47:10,140 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: It cloaked our ignorance. Also, there's like a ton that

956
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,220
Speaker 1: we didn't talk about. It's a really, I mean, this

957
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,070
Speaker 1: is a countless human, thousands of year long body of

958
00:47:21,140 --> 00:47:23,370
Speaker 1: knowledge that we just tried to do in 45 minutes

959
00:47:24,290 --> 00:47:28,020
Speaker 1: and failed at that. But there's a lot to it.

960
00:47:28,070 --> 00:47:30,210
Speaker 1: So if you're interested in it, go check it out.

961
00:47:30,430 --> 00:47:32,569
Speaker 1: At the very least, go watch some videos. And since

962
00:47:32,610 --> 00:47:34,529
Speaker 1: I said go watch some videos, everybody, it's time for

963
00:47:34,590 --> 00:47:35,089
Speaker 1: Listener Mail.

964
00:47:37,950 --> 00:47:39,969
Speaker 2: All right, I'm going to call this Olympic Torchbearer.

965
00:47:39,989 --> 00:47:40,989
Speaker 1: Okay.

966
00:47:41,310 --> 00:47:44,770
Speaker 2: Hey, guys. I was a torchbearer for the Winter Olympics,

967
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:46,570
Speaker 2: and it was a lot of fun. The amount of

968
00:47:46,610 --> 00:47:49,650
Speaker 2: logistical coordination that went into it was incredible. I was

969
00:47:49,690 --> 00:47:52,850
Speaker 2: told four months in advance when, down to the minute,

970
00:47:53,290 --> 00:47:55,210
Speaker 2: I'd be carrying the lit torch, and it wasn't off

971
00:47:55,250 --> 00:47:57,350
Speaker 2: by more than a few, actually. A guy came to

972
00:47:57,390 --> 00:48:00,109
Speaker 2: our hotel with a bunch of toys, vehicles, and action

973
00:48:00,130 --> 00:48:03,490
Speaker 2: figures and modeled exactly what would happen. That's so cool.

974
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,030
Speaker 2: I had to be reminded by my handlers to ensure

975
00:48:07,070 --> 00:48:09,989
Speaker 2: that I kept it very high, high enough so as

976
00:48:10,050 --> 00:48:13,489
Speaker 2: to not light my hat on fire. The torch is

977
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:16,430
Speaker 2: pretty light but fairly top-heavy. I'm sure we were wearing

978
00:48:16,489 --> 00:48:18,890
Speaker 2: mittens to make it impossible for any of us to

979
00:48:18,930 --> 00:48:21,989
Speaker 2: make any finger gestures, even accidentally, that could be seen

980
00:48:22,050 --> 00:48:24,450
Speaker 2: by the world on the live feed. Didn't even think

981
00:48:24,469 --> 00:48:27,060
Speaker 2: about that. One term you didn't use that I thought

982
00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:29,660
Speaker 2: you'd appreciate, when one torchbearer passes the flame to another,

983
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 2: it's called a torch kiss. We went through training and

984
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,420
Speaker 2: practiced just this part. On the street, we did a

985
00:48:35,420 --> 00:48:38,340
Speaker 2: little dance after we kissed, and then I and whoever

986
00:48:38,380 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: just finished got back on the bus. As you mentioned,

987
00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:43,140
Speaker 2: a guy took my torch and extinguished it right afterward,

988
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:45,259
Speaker 2: and since it was still hot, they stored it in

989
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 2: a rack on the bus. When we got back to

990
00:48:47,780 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: the starting point, they removed the fuel cell and gave

991
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 2: it back to me.

992
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: Broke it in half.

993
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 2: And that is from Matt Jones. We had quite a

994
00:48:54,550 --> 00:48:57,330
Speaker 2: nice little exchange about this. He said he did get

995
00:48:57,370 --> 00:48:59,610
Speaker 2: it through work, but he was not a C-level executive.

996
00:49:00,710 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 2: He won it through a drawing at his work.

997
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: Oh, that's totally great.

998
00:49:04,380 --> 00:49:04,580
Speaker 2: Yeah.

999
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: That's great. He might as well have gotten it from

1000
00:49:07,780 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: contributing to society, as great as that is. Man, I've

1001
00:49:11,580 --> 00:49:13,739
Speaker 1: got to thanks for that, Matt. Also, I knew it

1002
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:15,810
Speaker 1: was called The Kiss. I thought I said it was

1003
00:49:15,850 --> 00:49:18,709
Speaker 1: The Kiss. And if I left that out, that drives

1004
00:49:18,750 --> 00:49:21,660
Speaker 1: me crazy, man. when there's a fact that I know

1005
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,420
Speaker 1: that I failed to put into the podcast that somebody

1006
00:49:24,500 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: then comes and says you left out this really awesome

1007
00:49:26,700 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: fact and I just drop to my knees like the

1008
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 1: Liberty Mutual guy in the elevator and go.

1009
00:49:31,460 --> 00:49:33,940
Speaker 2: No you know how much that bothers me when that

1010
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 2: happens to me.

1011
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,819
Speaker 1: How much none man it's like it'll ruin my week

1012
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,219
Speaker 1: My week's just toast now, thanks to Matt.

1013
00:49:41,500 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 2: There's the difference between you and I.

1014
00:49:44,180 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: Well, if you want to ruin my week and have

1015
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,100
Speaker 1: a neutral effect on Chuck's week, maybe even make it

1016
00:49:49,140 --> 00:49:53,450
Speaker 1: more positive, you can email us. Go ahead and type

1017
00:49:53,489 --> 00:49:56,470
Speaker 1: it out. After that, wrap it up. After that, spank

1018
00:49:56,489 --> 00:49:58,230
Speaker 1: it on the bottom and then send it off to

1019
00:49:58,290 --> 00:50:03,830
Speaker 1: stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.

1020
00:50:03,850 --> 00:50:05,989
Speaker 2: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

1021
00:50:06,580 --> 00:50:10,830
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1022
00:50:11,010 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.