1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: It's July fourth, Independence Day in the US, and to 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 2: mark the holiday, we're taking a look at a financial 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 2: staple that's as fundamental to the story of America as 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: apple pie, Betsy Ross, and good old fashioned capitalism, the penny. 6 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: Penny. Collectors beware, the US mint is killing the penny. 7 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: The penny has been around basically since the start of 8 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: the Republic when we're minting, since even before the Constitution 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: was ratified. 10 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: Bloomberg reporter Stephen Dennis has been following the one cent 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: coin with interest since he first started covering Congress about 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 2: twenty years ago. 13 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: It really does feel like this time around the penny 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: is actually going to disappear. 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: In May, the Treasury Department made its final order of 16 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: penny blinks, the unmarked metal discs that get minted with 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: Lincoln's head to become a unit of currency. And after 18 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: it mints that final batch, the Treasury is going to 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: stop making new pennies. The move came after President Donald 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: Trump ordered his administration to ditch them. During this year's 21 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 2: Super Bowl second quarter, in a ten to nothing game, 22 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: Patrick Mahlmes trying to make a play. 23 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 1: And we had something to talk about in my household 24 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: over the chips and salsa. 25 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: Republicans and Democrats don't agree on much, but across the 26 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 2: aisle there's been a general consensus that the economics of 27 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: making the scent don't make sense because these days it 28 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: costs more to produce a penny than the worth of 29 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: the coin itself. 30 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 3: One of the things that you see chronically in government 31 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 3: is it's very hard to get rid of things that 32 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 3: don't work so that we can then invest in the 33 00:01:59,120 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 3: things that do. 34 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: That's President Obama in a twenty thirteen interview. 35 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 3: And the penny ends up being I think a good 36 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 3: metaphor for some of the larger problems that we've got. 37 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 2: And here's President Trump in February. 38 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 3: Thank you, Henny's said Nickel. 39 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: Next, so how did we get here? And what does 40 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: it mean that those little Abraham Lincoln's in your basement 41 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: coin jar will soon be a collector's item. I'm Sarah Holder, 42 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: and this is the big take from Bloomberg News Today. 43 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: On the show, we pay Tribute to the Humble Penny, 44 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 2: we look at its history, its symbolism, and what phasing 45 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: it out could mean for the US economy. When's the 46 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: last time you used a penny, really think about it, 47 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 2: was it to make a wish in a fountain, capitalize 48 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: on some sidewalk good luck, add to your growing coin collection. 49 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: I don't recall the last time I've used a penny 50 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: other than getting it off the floor and putting it 51 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: in a jar, and I think that's true of a 52 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: lot of people. 53 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Stephen Dennis is something of a penny enthusiast, and 54 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 2: even he acknowledges that very few of us are still 55 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: using pennies for their intended purpose of buying stuff. 56 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: In the last year or so, I think I've seen 57 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: two or three people in the US Senate cafeteria where 58 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: I eat most days, used pennies, and both of them 59 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: were US Senators near the age of eighty. 60 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: Elder statesmen in Congress, holding on to a relic of 61 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: the past years after society has moved on. There's some 62 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 2: irony there, for sure. But a few centuries ago, pennies 63 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: weren't just wedged in the corner of people's wallets. They 64 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: were everywhere. 65 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: In seventeen ninety three, the first penny, as we've come 66 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: to know it, was minted by the US Mint, and 67 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: you know back then, a penny was a lot of money. 68 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: In the early twentieth century, you could send a letter 69 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: for two pennies. In the fifties, a few pennies could 70 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: buy you a newspaper. In the sixties, a penny could 71 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: buy you a candy or a gumball. They were worth something. 72 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: Older people especially grew up on the idea of a 73 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: penny saved as a penny earned, and never waste a penny. 74 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: But we've dealt with so much inflation, and it's not 75 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: at the point where you can't buy anything with a penny. 76 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 2: And it's not just the value of a penny that's 77 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 2: gone down. The cost of making pennies has also gone up. 78 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: For the last twenty years or so, it's cost more 79 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: than a penny to make a penny. A penny right 80 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: now costs about three point seven cents for each one. 81 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 2: That's in part because of the costs for a penny's 82 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 2: ingredients today copper and zinc. Over the years, there have 83 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: been efforts to change the penny shape or its metallic 84 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 2: composition to bring down those costs, but copper especially is 85 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: just getting more expensive because it's used in renewable energy 86 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 2: projects and electric vehicle production. There are other overhead costs 87 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: attributed to making the penny, too, like staffing the US 88 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 2: myths and keeping the electricity running. So for the US Treasury, 89 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 2: making pennies just doesn't pencil out. The department reported losing 90 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 2: eighty five point three million dollars last year on penny 91 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: production alone. 92 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: Sort of a poster child for inefficiency, and it's arguably 93 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: America's least useful product. 94 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 2: Critics of penny production say it's especially inefficient because the 95 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: individual coins often don't make their way back into the economy. 96 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: Here's what I mean. Businesses are required to give customers 97 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 2: exact change when they buy something in cash, but many 98 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 2: customers don't actually use those pennies to buy anything after that, 99 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: So businesses have to keep restocking those rolls of coins 100 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: to make exact change, which means the Treasury has to 101 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: keep minting more pennies. Steven says that vicious penny supply 102 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: demand cycle helps explain why the Treasury Department has been 103 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: minting billions of the increasingly unpopular coins every year, and 104 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: why politicians have wanted to stop minting them altogether. 105 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: It's lost its utility frankly a long time ago. To 106 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: the point where even in two thousand and one, the 107 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: West Wing had part of an episode where they talked 108 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: about trying to get rid of the penny and ran 109 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: into resistance on Capitol Hill. He wants to abolish the penny. 110 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 3: He doesn't want to abolish it as much as he 111 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 3: wants to give his boss a reason why we can't. 112 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 2: For a long time, Washington's real life efforts to abolish 113 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 2: the penny ran into fierce opposition too. 114 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: The first efforts to go after the penny date to 115 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: like the eighties and nineties when Arizona lawmakers were trying 116 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: to get rid of the penny and one of the 117 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: things they wanted to replace it with was dollar coins, 118 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: and dollar coins use a lot of copper, and copper's 119 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: mind in Arizona, so you had sort of like these 120 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: regional interests in Congress fighting each other. And so one 121 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: of the ideas was, well, if there were fewer pennies 122 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: taking up space in your pockets, people might be more 123 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: willing to use dollar coins and have the weight of 124 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: the dollar coins in their pockets. That would lead to 125 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: more copper being mined in Arizona, more jobs in Arizona, 126 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: and so you could see how that would all have 127 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: sort of coin versus coin politics. 128 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 2: Coin versus coin politics, the dollar coin advocates facing off 129 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 2: against the penny lobby. 130 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: It's called Americans for Common Sense, where sense is spelled cents, 131 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: and it's funded primarily by the company Artisan, which makes 132 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: billions of penny blanks every year out of Zinc, primarily 133 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: in Tennessee. 134 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: Big Penny, as Stephen calls it, has been fighting efforts 135 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: to phase out the penny for decades. And it's not 136 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: the only one. 137 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: You've got Tennessee lawmakers trying to protect jobs. You also 138 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: have mint workers in Denver and Philadelphia who want to 139 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: keep their job. 140 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 2: There are also Abraham Lincoln enthusiasts and everyday nostalgics who 141 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: don't want to lose the penny, who think finding one 142 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 2: is good luck, or who like getting them pressed as 143 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 2: a memento at a museum, or who remember putting them 144 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: in their piggybanks as kids. In other words, there were 145 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 2: always people who'd be angry at lawmakers who took on 146 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 2: the penny. 147 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: You know, there's a phrase in Washington of is the 148 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: juice or the squeeze? And for many lawmakers, the amount 149 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: of money you could save on pennies maybe fifty to 150 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars a year, depending on the year, 151 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: is not worth the pain of having people angry at you. 152 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 2: All this helped the pennies stay alive for all these years, 153 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 2: but cost cutting in Washington won in the end. So 154 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 2: what changed? 155 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: The ball got rolling when Jony Ernst of Iowa, she 156 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: is the chair of the Senate Doge Caucus, and she 157 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: sent Elon Musk and his team a list of things 158 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: that she thinks could be cut. Now, she didn't say 159 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: let's get rid of the penny, but she did say 160 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: it's ridiculous that it costs now more than three pennies 161 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: to make one. 162 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 2: About two weeks before the Super Bowl, the official Doge 163 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 2: account posted on x highlighting those costs. 164 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 1: And basically hinted that the penny should disappear. 165 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: Then came game day when Trump posted on truth social 166 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 2: calling for an end to penny production. And that's all 167 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 2: it took. In May, the Treasure he replaced its final 168 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: order for penny blinks and said they'll run out in 169 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: early twenty twenty six. So what does it mean for 170 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 2: the average American that pennies are heading out of production? 171 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 2: That's after the break Bloomberg, Stephen Dennis says the loss 172 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 2: of the penny is mostly symbolic, but he says we 173 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: could see businesses make some shifts for. 174 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: The eighty four percent and rising percentage of transactions that 175 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: are now digital. You wouldn't see any change for the 176 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: increasingly vanishingly small percentage of transactions that are done in cash. 177 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: It would probably be rounded to the nearest nickel. 178 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 2: Other countries like Canada have already gotten rid of their penny. 179 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 2: An economist at the Atlanta FED don't expect to see 180 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 2: any significant inflationary consequences when the penny goes away in 181 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: the US, But Stephen says, when you think about it, 182 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 2: many of the transactions that do come down to a 183 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 2: penny are more of a branding exercise than anything else. 184 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of retailers will go 185 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: to ten ninety five instead of rounding up to eleven 186 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: because of that psychology. You know, you're trying to spur 187 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: more sales, and if it has a ten in front 188 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: of it instead of eleven, there's something in our brains 189 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: that says lower, cheaper better. 190 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: To those that argue that getting rid of the penny 191 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: sends the wrong message on inflation that it says that 192 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: our money is worthless. 193 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: The thing is is our money is worthless, and I 194 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: think people know that, which is why they're not using pennies. 195 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 2: So everyday Americans shouldn't worry that the penny's death spells 196 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: higher costs. But will the change actually save the government 197 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 2: any money? Maybe? The Treasury has predicted that stopping penny 198 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: production will save the US fifty six million dollars a 199 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: year and costs. But there are some scenarios in which 200 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: this move could cause added trouble and expense. 201 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: John McCain, the late Senator, tried to pause pennies for 202 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: ten years. We're not going to mint them for ten years, 203 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: he said during the first Trump administration, and the research 204 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: arm for Congress did a study. They asked the US Ment, Okay, well, 205 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: what would happen if we just stopped minting pennies and 206 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: the mint was like, we would have a big problem. 207 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: Two hundred and forty billion pennies or so are sitting 208 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: in people's basements. And if people thought that the penny 209 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: was going away and they decided to return those two 210 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: hundred billion pennies to the government under fear that they 211 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to cash them into the future. The 212 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: government would have to house all of these pennies, and 213 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: they don't have the storage facilities to handle that huge 214 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: tsunami of coinage, and that could actually cost them a 215 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: huge amount of money to get those storage facilities up 216 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: and running for all these pennies. 217 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 2: But Steven says the idea that Americans are suddenly going 218 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 2: to collect their pennies and return them to the government 219 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: feels far fetched. 220 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: I don't think there's going to be some kind of 221 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: like panic where everybody's like, I've got to get the 222 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: coins in by such and such a date. And I 223 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: had a little short conversation with Scott Besson in the 224 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: hallway this year when I kind of pressed him, I'm like, so, 225 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: when are you guys to actually get rid of the penny? 226 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: You know, months had gone by, and he's like, we're 227 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: working on it. And he also clarified, you know, we're 228 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: not getting rid of it. We're just not going to 229 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: make it anymore. And so it'll still be legal tender. If 230 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: you have those coins for a long time to come, 231 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: you could still take them to a bank and they 232 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: will presumably accept them. But it's it is possible that 233 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: a lot of retelligent will stop accepting them. 234 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 2: And as cash transactions become rarer, the end of penny 235 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: production raises questions about the value of other coins. Nichols, 236 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 2: after all, cost about fourteen to make. That's almost three 237 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 2: times more than they're worth. And even without the penny, 238 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: the US mint will keep paying for many of the 239 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 2: same facilities, which come with their own costs. 240 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: Those administrative expenses, A lot of them will stick around. 241 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: You still have the buildings, you're gonna still have overhead. 242 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: You're just gonna have a factory that's not running at 243 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: full tilt anymore. And so penny people believe that the 244 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: cost of a nickel could go up to as much 245 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: as twenty five cents each, and so there's a good 246 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: argument to get rid of nichols as well, but that's 247 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: not what the nickel. 248 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 2: People want for now. Nickels are safe, and don't get 249 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 2: too sentimental about the penny. If history offers any guide, 250 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: it's possible that once the little guys are truly gone, 251 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 2: we won't really miss them. This was before your time, 252 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: but America used to have a halfpenny. It was discontinued 253 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: in eighteen fifty seven. 254 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: It costs more than half a penny to make the 255 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: halfpenny we got rid of the half penny sound familiar. 256 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. 257 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: The show is hosted by Me, David Gura, Wanha and 258 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 2: Talaa Mosen. The show is made by Aaron Edwards, David Fox, 259 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 2: Eleanor Harrison Dengate, Patti Hirsch, Rachel Lewis, Krisky, Naomi Julia Press, 260 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 2: Tracy Samuelson, Naomi Shaven, Alex Sugiera, Julia Weaver, Julian Weller, 261 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: Yang Yong and Taka Yasuzawa. To get more from The 262 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 2: Big Take and unlimited access to all of Bloomberg dot Com, 263 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 2: subscribe today at Bloomberg dot Com Slash Podcast Offer. Thanks 264 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 2: for listening. We'll be back on Monday.