1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Manam and I'm Joe McCormick, and 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: we're back with part three of our series on whistling. Now, 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: if you haven't heard the first two parts, you might 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: want to go check those out first. In the In 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: the previous sections, we talked about the physics of what 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: happens in the mouth when you whistle. We talked about 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: whistling based languages or variants of languages, and we talked 10 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: about the fascinating practice of Chinese transcendental whistling, as well 11 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: as some various psychonautical beliefs about the world changing power 12 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: of whistling. But today it might be interesting to turn 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: our eyes to ancient history and say, did people whistle 14 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: in the ancient world? And if so, how would we 15 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: know about it. This is such a great question that 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: I've never really thought about because I kind of took 17 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: it for granted, like, this is a sound that the 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: human body can make, Therefore people would have made this sound, 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I think for the most part 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: this is a a good way of looking at it. Things. 21 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: But then the other side of the equation is all right, well, 22 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: let's look at the evidence. What evidence do we have 23 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: in the literature of the ancient world that people whistled? 24 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: And then and then if they did whistle, well, what 25 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: are the attitudes concerning whistling? Because one thing that I 26 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: think we've already been able to distress in this series 27 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: is that that whistling is fascinating as it is, it 28 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: is not a a neutral thing. We end up having 29 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: these various cultural and uh and as we'll discuss, superstitious 30 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: weights attached to the practice of whistling. You know, I'm 31 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: just generally fascinated by the idea of ancient music. I 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: guess in part because for the most part, we don't 33 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: know what it sounded like. And so when you find, 34 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: for example, people who have tried to render into performances 35 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: some of the oldest recorded like a written notation of 36 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: music that we have, such as the the famous Hurrian 37 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: songs or Hurryan hymns that are from the ancient city 38 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: of Yugurit, which are these hymns to the goddess nicoll Uh. 39 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: They're they're written on cune of form tablets, and people 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: have tried to turn that music notation into performances that 41 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: you can hear today, and it's very haunting. Uh. The 42 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: same is true. I think there's an ancient Greek tombstone 43 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: that has some music notation on it that has been 44 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: translated into modern music. I think it's known as the 45 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 1: sec Loss or sec Loss epitaph. And when you hear 46 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: those sounds, they really do feel very alien. They're like 47 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: they're from another world. Uh, And it just it opens 48 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: the mind all these possibilities that the the ancient world 49 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: was full of music that we will never know because 50 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't recorded, of course it couldn't be, and it 51 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: also wasn't written down or notated in any way that 52 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: we can understand today. Yeah. Yeah, all this is definitely 53 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: worth thinking about and again and coming down to like 54 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: why is whistling important enough to take note of? Uh? 55 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: You know, this is a question that that remains on 56 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: one's mind as we look at these these different examples. 57 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: But what the main paper that I was looking at 58 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: that was really getting into this was a two thousand 59 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: paper by A. V. Van Stickellenberg titled Whistling in Antiquity, 60 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: and the author dives into like the basic question of 61 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: what evidence do we have that particularly the ancient Greeks 62 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: and the ancient Romans whistled or didn't whistle. And again, 63 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: on one hand, it's hard to believe that they didn't 64 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: and uh and stick Ellenberg points out that we know 65 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: the Romans, for instance, had many songs for different occasions, 66 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: and yet whistling was would also probably have been considered 67 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: vulgar and not something that a person of status would 68 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: do compared to other sounds that one might make. Proper 69 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: romans were not even supposed to sing, for example, I 70 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: did not know that, not me neither uh and yet 71 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: uh Stikellenberg writes, quote whistling a tune with there for 72 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: not have been compatible with the characters of many, if 73 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: not most, of the persona in ancient literature. Apart from that, however, 74 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: it is a remarkable fact that we also never meet 75 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: a slave, a fisherman, pimp, or soldier whistling a tune, 76 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: not even in comedy. So whatt Callenberry is pointing out 77 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: here is that, Okay, if if whistling is not the 78 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: proper thing to do, it's not the thing that you're 79 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: your heroes and your your your proper romans would would 80 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: have done. Well, what about the the improper characters in 81 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: your various writings. Surely somebody would come around, come along, 82 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: and they would whistle, and by whistling, signify that they 83 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: are an improper character and therefore deserving of ridicule or 84 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: the villain of the piece, that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, 85 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: I mean not uh. When you look at what kind 86 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: of Roman literature survives to us, it's not all uh 87 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,799 Speaker 1: lofty uh royal drama. You know, there are some really 88 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: body satirical Roman literature that still exists today. And so 89 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: you would expect the characters in this to engage in 90 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: all manner of vulgarity that the Romans knew about. Yeah, 91 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: like I think of our own cinematic history here and 92 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: also this in the literature as well. Spitting, uh, spitting 93 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: on the ground in front of you generally considered uncouth, 94 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: but in most circles, and yet you definitely see it 95 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: a lot in cinema because it's a great way to 96 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: establish that, well, this character is a little rough around 97 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: the edges. Um, and I think the Cowboy movies where 98 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: they're spitting, or Corman McCarthy novels where there's a lot 99 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: of spitting. So what Stikellenberg is saying, is that even 100 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: though we have Roman literature that has lower class characters 101 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: and characters who are understood as doing body and vulgar things, 102 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: we never in the existing corpus see them whistling, or 103 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: almost never seems to be the case, though Stikellenberg does 104 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: point out a few areas where we're not entirely sure, 105 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: and this is where we get into, uh, the the 106 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: imprecise nature of language and translations um. They point to 107 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: a part in Petronius satiricn from the first century CE 108 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: that describes a person who quote put his hand to 109 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: his mouth and whistled out some terrible stuff I couldn't identify. 110 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: Afterwards he told us it was Greek air. Now, it's 111 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: apparently an open question if the if the proper translation 112 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: is whistling, and if it is whistling, what what what 113 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: are we really talking about? Is it whistling like or 114 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: is it finger whistling where you create, you know, the 115 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: loud sound by blowing through your fingers, or is this 116 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: just bad singing? The idea that uh, you know, some 117 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: sounds are coming out of this person's mouth. They call 118 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: it Greek air. It's just bad singing. Oh, I see 119 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: so like, Uh, in order to be insulting, you might 120 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: describe someone singing as wheezing or something. Yeah, that sort 121 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: of thing. They point out that even today, a fictional 122 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: character whistling often means that they're they're what like they 123 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: think of a whistling character in a film you've seen. 124 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: It often means they're care free, or they're happy, or 125 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: there perhaps a bit of a doo fit. Uh. Sometimes 126 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: the whistling is like, what's going to happen to this 127 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: poor dope that's just whistling and a little uh um, 128 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: unprepared for the circumstances ahead of them. Does Buster Scruggs whistle? 129 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: I feel like he does. I think he does, if 130 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: memory serves when you know and and the Cohen Brothers 131 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: Buster scrugs the first bit in that anthology film. Yeah, 132 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: he's this so this white suited cowboy who at first 133 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: we think, yeah, he's just too he's just too much 134 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: of a goody two shoes. He's just gonna be eat 135 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: up by the world that he's writing into. And of 136 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: course we find out that he's more than a match 137 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: for the violence of the world. Yeah, I guess that 138 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: is the joke that he's like the whistling, singing cowboy. 139 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: But he's also a cold blooded killer. Yeah, that fabulous short. 140 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: I love that. Um. But at any right, we we 141 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: do see some variations on this. For instance, stickle Berg 142 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: points out that in Western literature we see whistling associated 143 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: with the Squire and the Canterbury Tales in the fourteenth century. Uh. 144 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: And this is a quote here singing he was or 145 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: fluting all the day. Uh. This is from the prologue. 146 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: And I guess the fluting here is what might be whistling, 147 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: fluting without a flute. That that's what I've always called 148 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: whistling Stackallenburg points out that, okay, this character, though the Squire, 149 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: is also a lusty lout, and we don't really see 150 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: a precursor to this character type in Roman and Greek writing. 151 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: But but here we have an early example of the 152 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: lusty lout who is also potentially whistling stick. Gallenburg also 153 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: raises the question of uh, perhaps humming was more common 154 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,719 Speaker 1: than whistling. But the problem there is we also don't 155 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: know much about humming in antiquity either the right quote. 156 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: Whatever the case, whistling apparently formed no part of the 157 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: paral linguistic stock used by Greek and Roman authors. This 158 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: stock was considerable, as recent studies show, and a few 159 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: studies are cited from UH from the ninety nineties and 160 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: include such emotional indicators as jumping for joy and nail biting. 161 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: So saying here that, okay, if you're gonna have characters 162 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: do things to indicate, um, you know, what's going on 163 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: in their heads are kind of emotions they're supposed to 164 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: be emoting on the stage or on the on the page, 165 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. Uh, you're gonna have things 166 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: that are being used like jumping for joy, like nail biting, 167 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: and yet there's no whistling. Now, they also get into 168 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: this concept of whistling in the dark a bit, which 169 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: of course is a well worn turn of phrase for us, 170 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: in which one whistles to stave off fear. One of 171 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: my favorite examples of this, or at least one that 172 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: I think I encountered the earliest and therefore I always 173 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: think about this is the Ichabod Crane and Headless Horseman 174 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: cartoon from Disney. This was in the Adventures of Ichabod 175 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: and Mr Toad, though this would have been This was 176 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: also a segment that was often aired on Disney TV 177 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 1: Halloween specials, So there's definitely some whistling in the dark 178 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: in that one, and of course it doesn't really work 179 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: um Ultimately, the things in the aren't come out to 180 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: chase about crane around. Now, Rob, maybe we will get 181 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: more into this in a subsequent part when we talk 182 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: about some psychology. I'm I'm not sure, but maybe. But anyway, 183 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: I wonder what you think of the function of whistling 184 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: in this type of scenario where you're afraid. Maybe you're 185 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: wandering by yourself past a graveyard or wandering by yourself 186 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: in the dark, and there's a breeze blowing through the 187 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: trees and you're a little bit apprehensive, so you start 188 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: to whistle. Now, I think the phrase like whistling past 189 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: the graveyard or whistling in the dark is supposed to 190 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: denote like somebody showing bravado. You know, they're saying they're 191 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: like trying to show off that they're not afraid, when 192 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: in fact they are. But what I noticed, and that 193 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: comes up in the example I just mentioned, is that 194 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: people often do this when they're alone, when there's nobody 195 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: there to see them, nobody to show off too. So 196 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: if whistling is to show off that you're not afraid. 197 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: It seems like the showing off must either or be 198 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: to yourself somehow, or to like the scary creature that 199 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: you imagine is watching you. Yeah, it would have to 200 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: be one or the other. But I guess in some 201 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: of these cases, and especially when you think about graveyards, 202 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: there's definitely an imagined other out there. And it might 203 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: not be an imagined other that you give a lot 204 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: of weight most of the time, but at least right 205 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: now it's on your mind. So we're gonna get into 206 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: several different examples of whistling as a potential means of 207 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: summoning or accidentally summoning or drawing the attention of things 208 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: that that should not be drawn in uh to your vicinity. 209 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: So on one level, yeah, it seems a bit a 210 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: bit um uh dangerous if you're gonna actually fall in 211 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: along with some of these supernatural beliefs, like I don't 212 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: want to to summon the devil if I'm afraid of 213 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: the devil coming out of the graveyard at me. But 214 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: maybe part of it is like proving like not only 215 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: am I not afraid of the devil in the graveyard, 216 00:11:58,160 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and summon him. If he's here, he 217 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: come on out, and we'll go ahead and do this. 218 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: But I'm done with just being afraid of the devil 219 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: somewhere hiding in the graveyard. Okay, But I guess the 220 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: question is whether it's actually whistling or whether it's just 221 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: singing or humming some version of this idea singing when 222 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: you're afraid or singing through the graveyard. Does this come 223 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: up in ancient history as well? Do we have any 224 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: evidence of this from thousands of years ago? It seems 225 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: like we might. Uh's to Calenberg brings up another example 226 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: again from Petronius, and this is again from the satiricn 227 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: and it also concerns a werewolf. Did you know that 228 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: there were ancient Roman stories about werewolves? There absolutely are, Yeah, 229 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: and it's a This one's a pretty good one. Um 230 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: this is I'm gonna read part of it at least. 231 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: This is from a um Hesseltine translation. Quote. I seized 232 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: my opportunity and persuaded a guest in our house to 233 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: come with me as far as the fifth Milestone. He 234 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: was a soldier and as brave as hell, so we 235 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: trotted off about cockrow, the moon shone like high noon. 236 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: We got among the tombstones. My man went aside to 237 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: look at the epitaphs. I sat down with my heart 238 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: full of song, and began to count the graves. M 239 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: So sta Kellenberg writes the following on this, how tempting 240 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: to interpret this scene as a clever application of psychological 241 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: paral language, which has a superstitious and frightened slave indulged 242 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: in an ancient equivalent of our whistling in the dark. 243 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: Since the kntar represents many forms of musical expressions, we 244 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: would even be justified in translating it here with whistling. Unfortunately, 245 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: there is no straightforward indication that Petroni has had this 246 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: in mind. Okay, so, despite the fact that our expression 247 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: is often like whistling past the graveyard or whistling in 248 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: the graveyard, Um, this is a word cantare, which, in 249 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: whatever its Latin form is, could have meant whistling, but 250 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: could also just mean singing. Right. Yeah, So again we 251 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: get into the the imprecise nature of language, which continues 252 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: to be a theme with trying to figure out whistling 253 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: or not whistling, or making other sounds and various old texts. 254 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: You know, this is kind of a tangent, But I 255 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: feel like, since we're on the werewolf story, it would 256 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: be kind of a shame not to tell the werewolf story. 257 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: What happens in this story by Paternius here, okay, I can. 258 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: I can read the next little bit, which I think 259 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: brings it to a nice closure. Then when I looked 260 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: round at my friend, he stripped himself and put all 261 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: his clothes by the roadside. My heart was in my mouth, 262 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: but I stood like a dead man. He made a 263 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: ring of water around his clothes and suddenly turned into 264 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: a wolf. Please do not think I am joking. I 265 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: would not lie about this for any fortune in the world. 266 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: But as I was saying, after he had turned into 267 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: a wolf, he began to howl and ran off into 268 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: the woods. At first I hardly knew where I was. 269 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: Then I went up to take his clothes, and they 270 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: had all turned to stone. No one could be near 271 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: dead with terror than I was. But I drew my 272 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: sword and went slaying shadows all the way till I 273 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: came to my love's house. I went in like a corpse, 274 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: nearly gave up the ghost. The sweat ran down my legs, 275 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: my eyes were dull. I could hardly be revived my beer. 276 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: Melissa was surprised at my state, at my being out 277 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: so late, and said, if you had come earlier, you 278 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: might at least have helped us. A wolf got into 279 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: the house and worried all our sheep and let their 280 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: blood like a butcher. But he did not make fools 281 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: of us, even though he got off for our slave 282 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: made a hole in his neck with a spear. When 283 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: I heard this, I could not keep my eyes shut 284 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: any longer. But at break of day I rushed back 285 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: to my master giuss house like a defrauded publican. And 286 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: when I came to the place where the clothes were 287 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: turned into stone, I found nothing but a pool of blood. 288 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: But when I reached home, my soldier was lying in 289 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: bed like an ox, with a doctor looking after his neck. 290 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: I realized that he was a werewolf, and I never 291 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: could sit down to a meal with him afterwards, not 292 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: if you had killed me first. Other people may think 293 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: what they like about this, but may all your guardian 294 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: angels punish me if I am lying. Wow, that's pretty 295 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: fun and pretty staple werewolf sort of story. There. It's 296 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: a great werewolf story. But my biggest question is do 297 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: oxes normally lie in human beds? What does he mean 298 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: I was lying in my bed like an ox? Oh no, no, 299 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: not him. My soldier was lying in bed like an ox. 300 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not sure about that. I feel 301 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: like we're we're missing some kind of historical context there. Yeah, 302 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: I mean maybe it's like he's light, his body is 303 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: like that of an ox. I don't know. I don't 304 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: nothing comes to mind when I try and picture an 305 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: ox laying down. But yeah, it's really funny. Okay, So 306 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: this is the satir con by Petronius is first century 307 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: uh CE, so it's like two thousand years later, and 308 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: werewolf movies are still using the exact same trope where 309 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: somebody figures out it's a werewolf because they see the 310 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: monster get wounded on a certain part of the body, 311 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: and then later they see a human wounded on the 312 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: same part of the body. That's in like half the 313 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: werewolf movies they make Yeah, if it ain't broke, don't 314 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: fix it, right. And I think if I've seen this 315 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: in other animal transform and myths and stories before, like 316 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: perhaps some were tigers stories from China and so forth, 317 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: I agree it still works than alright. So for the 318 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: next bit, that's the Kellenberg gets into is is that 319 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: they break down a couple of things we've kind of 320 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: we've at least touched on, if not already to discuss 321 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: and when they break these out further later on. But 322 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: we have a semaphoric whistling or whistling as a form 323 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: of signaling, and this has been around for a very 324 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: long time. This is something that goes back to our 325 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: KaiC humans. Citing Peter f Otswald, they share quote, whistles 326 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: are easier to hear than words because they concentrate sound 327 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: energy into a narrow segment of the frequency spectrum instead 328 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: of spreading it. Generally, they occur in the frequency range 329 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: of one thousand and four thousand cycles per second, to 330 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: which the human era is most sensitive. Oh yeah, so 331 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: this is the same fact that was cited in slightly 332 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: different terms in that linguistics paper that we looked at 333 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: in the previous section. Myer, that was about how whistling 334 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: tends to be a good medium for transmitting information because 335 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: it's in that frequency range of one to four killerherts, 336 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: which is a good place to concentrate energy if you 337 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: wanted to travel the forest and be audible, uh and 338 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: carry distinct information the longest distance, because that's like, that's 339 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: that's sort of the bull's eye for what our ears 340 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: can detect and separate out from ambient noise. Now, the 341 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: next part here is where things get very biblical, because 342 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: Sticklenberg points out that the oldest reference to semaphoric use 343 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: of whistling can be found in the Book of Isaiah five, 344 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: where the Lord whistles to summon people. He uh quote, 345 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: he will raise a signal for a nation afar off 346 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: and whistle for it from the ends of the earth, 347 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: and low, swiftly, speedily it comes. So I started off 348 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: looking into this just by checking it in my Oxford 349 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: in RSV to see if the translation was different in 350 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: any significant way. And it's not that translations almost exactly 351 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: the same as what Stickellenberg has here. But in reading 352 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: it this passage, I thought I should explain more about 353 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: the context because it makes that quote especially interesting and 354 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: even scary. This is one of the most I think 355 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: one of the most powerful and chilling passages in the 356 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: Hebrew Bible. Uh. So what's going on here? Well, this 357 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: is actually a prophecy of doom. In this part of 358 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: the Book of Isaiah, the author is pronouncing a verdict 359 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: of divine judgment and punishment against the people of Israel 360 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: and Judah, because he says they have ignored God's instructions 361 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: and chosen to live in wickedness. And so there's a 362 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: section before this where he's just talking about the evil 363 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: they do, and you might recognize some lines from this 364 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: because they're pretty famous. The prophet says, ah, you who 365 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for 366 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet 367 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: and sweet for bitter, You who are wise in your 368 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: own eyes and shrewd in your own sight, Ah you, 369 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: who are heroes in drinking wine and valiant at mixing drink, 370 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: who acquit the guilty for a bribe and deprived the 371 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: innocent of their rights. Oh man, God coming out strong 372 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: against nixed drinks here, Yeah, against mixed drinks and against bribing, 373 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: so that the guilty win in court. But then it 374 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: starts getting with the really like scary expressive metaphors. From 375 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: here it goes into Therefore, as the tongue of fire 376 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: devours the stubble, and as dry grass sinks down in 377 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: the flame, so their root will become rotten, and their 378 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: blossom go up like the dust. For they have rejected 379 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: the instruction of the Lord of Hosts, and have despised 380 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: the word of the Holy One of Israel. Therefore the 381 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: anger of the Lord was kindled against his people, and 382 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: he stretched out his hand against them and struck them. 383 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: The mountains quaked, and their corpses were like refuse in 384 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: the streets. For all this his anger has not turned away, 385 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: and his hand is stretched out still. Then comes the 386 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: line about God whistling. From that it goes straight into 387 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: He will raise a signal for a nation far away, 388 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: and whistle for a people at the ends of the earth. 389 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: Here they come swiftly, speedily, And in this line the 390 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: people being referenced there, who are they? These are the 391 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: armies of the Assyrian Empire, and described in the following 392 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: passages in terrifying detail. The prophet says, they march without rest. 393 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: Their arrows are sharp, their horses hoofs are like flint, 394 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: their wheels like a whirlwind. They roar like lions. They 395 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: roar like the sea. And at in saying, the light 396 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 1: grows dark with clouds, And so the prophet is saying 397 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: here that the Lord will whistle to summon an invading 398 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: army to slaughter his people because they have done evil 399 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: and turned away from him. Wow. So first he does 400 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: recks and de stabilizes everything uh in this sinful nation, 401 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: and then he calls to an invading army to come 402 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: on over and finish him off. Yes, and the whistle here, 403 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: I think that takes on a totally different context that 404 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: makes it a whistle of absolute terror from on high. 405 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: It is something that should chill you to the bone. 406 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: But then it gets even stranger because the Callenberg points 407 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: out that the Hebrew word for whistle here leaves some 408 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: room for interpretation. And apparently there's still some discussion about this, 409 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: with some arguing that what we're talking about here is 410 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: indeed a whistle, but others say that it is a hiss, 411 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: the hiss of God. Wow. So you shared that fact 412 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: with me earlier, and I don't know what to do 413 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: that that is one of the scariest images I have 414 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: ever heard of the hiss of God. I mean, the 415 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: whistle is already scarier with the additional context that you 416 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: provided here, but but the idea of of God God 417 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: hissing and especially in in such a wrathful mode of behavior. 418 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it's it's kind of chilling, Okay. But so 419 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: if there's some ambiguity in the translation here, I guess 420 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: that would mean that whatever word is used has something 421 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: to do clearly with like a an expressive expelling of breath. Yeah, 422 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: and that's the thing we're getting into breath language here, 423 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: and and breath related sounds. And apparently in in various 424 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: ancient texts, there's a fair amount of leeway and how 425 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: we might think of a hiss or a whistle as 426 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: it relates to not only human sounds but also non 427 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: human sounds like leaves, arrows in the wind. Uh quote. 428 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: Hissing and whistling, when produced by humans, results the same 429 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: interaction between respiratory and oral agents. The only difference is 430 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: that in hissing, the oral obstruction placed in the way 431 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: of the airstream is the teeth, while in the case 432 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: of whistling, it is the lips. In antiquity, this difference 433 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: was apparently felt as too slight for differentiation between the 434 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: two sounds and for the establishment of separate terminology. The 435 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: lack of differentiation continues in some of the daughter languages. 436 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: Wow That's interesting because so we're we're trying to understand 437 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: the cultural significance of whistling, which in our context very 438 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: often means something like, you know, it's just kind of 439 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: like innocent, care free soundmaking, whereas a hiss, I think, 440 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: is almost universally acknowledged to be one of the most 441 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: hostile sounds a person could make. Yes, um, my son 442 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: would would hiss for a while. I forget where he 443 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: picked this up, Like there's something animal world, you know, 444 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: kids have the central affinity with animals. But I always 445 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: always approved of it because I'm like, yes, if if, 446 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: if threatened, like hissing sends a certain signal like that, 447 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: we're we're past language now. Now we're in a hissing 448 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: hissing zone. I am I am so mad at you. 449 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: I've become an animal. I am a snake. I am 450 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: a cat. It was probably a cat connection for sure. Um. Now, 451 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: the Kelenberg points to various examples in Greek writings, including Homer, 452 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: in which we also encounter this hiss whisper confusion. Both 453 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: are non verbal language substitutes. They point out that there 454 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: is still a distinct difference. Uh, you know, at least 455 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 1: you know, to our our modern understanding of all this. 456 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it just becomes difficult to try and 457 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: sort all of this, especially in these ancient texts. Was 458 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: this a whistle? Was this a hiss? Is this other thing? 459 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: Are we describing the wind as hissing? Or is the 460 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: wind whistling? How do we think of these? And that 461 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: connection between whistling and the wind uh is important in 462 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: other regards as well when we get into superstition and magic. 463 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: But Stikellenberg also gets into some other areas that I 464 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: hadn't even really thought about in connection to whistling. For instance, 465 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: the subject of cat calls uh not to be confused 466 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: with the wolf whistle. So this is interesting because I 467 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: think I would tend to think when I hear cat calls, 468 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: I tend to think of of what sti Kellenberg is 469 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: actually describing as the wolf whistle. Um. So Stakellenburg points 470 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: out that we do have clear Roman references to to 471 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: the cat call, to some kind of whistling used offensively 472 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: against actors, speakers, or performers in order to drive them 473 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: off the stage. You don't like the performers on the stage, 474 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: you don't like the speaker, Well, everybody just just sort 475 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: of whistles at them. They just kind of use a 476 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: bunch of these these cat calls in order to drive 477 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: them away. So whistling as just straightforward harassment or abuse. Yes. Uh, 478 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: Cicero even makes reference to the Cisero. Of course, they 479 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: have the famous rator who lived one of six to 480 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 1: forty three BC. Basically, it's a it's a letter from 481 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: Cicero to Atticus, and he's boasting about how popular he 482 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: is and how the last time he gave a particular 483 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 1: of speech he did not hear a single shepherd's whistle. Uh. 484 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: So the idea is that he's referring to a complete 485 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: absence of cat calls during his appearance because it was 486 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: just so captivating. And apparently the language is key here, 487 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: because if Cisero had been referring to hissing instead of whistling, 488 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: he would have used a different particular bit of terminology. Okay, 489 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: So while earlier STI Kellenberg was arguing that we don't 490 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: have references to fictional characters in Roman literature whistling, there 491 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: are some references to whistling in the in the broader 492 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: sort of descriptive literature about society. Yeah, and so, first 493 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: of all, this cat call area, which, um, you know, 494 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: my mind didn't go to here immediately. And also I 495 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: don't know that I've encountered this much. Maybe I just 496 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: haven't been to performances uh in a while where uh 497 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: that there were that were where there was like a 498 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: negative audience experience that is, I don't think that's maybe 499 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: where at least like modern Western audiences are going to 500 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: go immediately if they want to express their negative feelings, 501 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: like they're probably gonna boo or something. Right, Yeah, I'd 502 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: say booing is is more common in American culture. Yeah, 503 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: I've never heard an audience whistle as a form of disapproval. Well, 504 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: apparently it was such a thing that it was and 505 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: still is at least at the writing this was again 506 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: written in two thousand in the British theater, that whistling 507 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: was just such a fear like this would be the 508 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: force trying to drive you off the stage. That whistling 509 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: was was just not done in a British theater dressing room. Um, 510 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: and it's possibly linked to this now Stickkellenberg stresses that 511 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,719 Speaker 1: there seems to be a divide between whistling uh on 512 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: with the British stage and the American stage again as 513 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: of two thousand. Anyway, when this was written, pointing out 514 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: that okay, sometimes it seems okay and positive for American 515 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: audiences to whistle at the performers on stage, and this 516 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: this does click for me. I know, I've been to 517 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: performances where there's a certain amount of whistling, clapping, wooing, 518 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: you know, all sorts of different sounds that are made 519 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: as a positive sound at the end of her performance. 520 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: Uh you relations as well, um, you know, various different 521 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: um non verbal sounds. But but this could include whistling, 522 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: whereas in the British context you still wouldn't whistle. You 523 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: might have you know, gotten a dirty look from uh 524 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: from from England theater goers if you were there whistling 525 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: at the end of a performance of Shakespeare and you 526 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: were trying to say, oh, this is great, I'm gonna whistle. 527 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: So you're saying that might have been interpreted by some 528 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: as like praising a performance by yelling get off the stage. 529 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Uh. Now, finally Stakellenberg gets to this, this 530 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: topic of wolf whistling, which again is what I thought 531 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: what a cat call was. But I guess I had 532 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: my terminology mixed up. On that uh, the wolf whistle 533 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: is a whistle to indicate sexual interest, not unlike a 534 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: cartoon wolf in an old animated short. Now, I was 535 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: reading a little bit about people trying to locate the 536 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: origin of the wolf whistle, which is a specific intonation. 537 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: It's like a rising whistle followed by a falling whistle. 538 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: You can probably hear it in your head right now, 539 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: woo woo. And for a while there was an explanation 540 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: going around that this was traceable back to uh specific 541 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: whistles used on naval ships, that there were like a 542 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: whistle with that intonation would be used to get sailor's attention. 543 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: But I've also seen some undermining of that explanation, so 544 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's exactly known where the the 545 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: the sexual harassment form of the whistle comes from. Yeah, 546 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: and when we go to look for evidence in antiquity, 547 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: this is another case where Stickmenberg says, there's just we 548 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: just don't know. There's like one account of possible wolf 549 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: whistling and Platius's mercater This would have been from the 550 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: very early fifth century, and it's unclear if it's a 551 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,719 Speaker 1: hiss or a whistle. Once again, it might have been 552 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: so it might have been a hiss, could have been 553 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: a whistle, some other sound of the mouth even thank Okay, 554 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: but Rob, I think we should switch over to talking 555 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: about some of the superstitions about whistling, because whistling apparently 556 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: is widely believed in many cultures to have some kind 557 00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: of power, often negative power, beyond just being perceived of 558 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: as rude or or a form of harassment or something 559 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: like that, that it actually could have dangerous magical power. 560 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, they're they're numerous examples of this discuss 561 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: and they have some similar trends. There's sort of the 562 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: idea of of whistling as wind magic and therefore their 563 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: potential elemental uh ramifications for whistling, especially kind of reckless whistling. 564 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: I guess that's what a lot of these teams to 565 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: get to the idea that when we whistle, we're engaging 566 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: in some sort of wind magic and we probably don't 567 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: know what we're doing and the effects could just be 568 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: completely out of control. Other ideas are that whistling is 569 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: some sort of connection to the spirit world, and whistling 570 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: can summon or attract the attention of things that we 571 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: don't want the attention of and uh and so forth. 572 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: Then there are also some other sort of environmental specific 573 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: examples that get into the dangers of whistling. You know, 574 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: I don't have um proof that this is the the 575 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: causal connection here, but I wonder if a lot of 576 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: these beliefs about the supernatural power of whistling comes from 577 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: the linguistic tradition of associating spirits with breath. You know, 578 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: like in Greek you would often use the same word 579 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: to indicate both that like a person's breath leaving their 580 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: body would be the numa, which is the same word 581 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: you use to indicate a certain kind of animating divine spirit, 582 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: or like the holy ghost the numa. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 583 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: I imagine there might be something to that. Now. The 584 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: first idea I want to touch on, though, it's just 585 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: the idea of and this is a pretty big one, 586 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: whistling at sea uh and and this is discussed in 587 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: a paper by Christina Whole that is titled Superstitions and 588 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: Belief of the State. This came out in the nineteen 589 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: sixty seven edition of the journal Folklore, and in it 590 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: she writes that at least in Western traditions, the whistle 591 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: was just a bad omen as it created a little 592 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: wind quote and by imitative magic may produce a greater one. 593 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: So you've got to be careful whistling because that whistle 594 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: could turn into a fearsome gale that could blow the 595 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: ship over, etcetera. And that's if men did it, and 596 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: if women did it, it could be even worse because 597 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,479 Speaker 1: it's kind of like the ideas it seems very sexist here. 598 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: It's kind of like, well, if men are at sea 599 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: and they are near a boat and they're whistling, they 600 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: might accidentally bring about a catastrophic wind that destroys everything. 601 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: But if a woman's doing well, she might be a 602 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: wind summoning, which she might actually know what she's doing, 603 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: and that's even more dangerous. Yes, So either way, though, 604 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: whistling at sea was bad luck for anybody. The rare 605 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: exception whole rights is that you did have cases where 606 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,479 Speaker 1: you'd have sailors stuck at sea in a dead calm, 607 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: so they're out there on the ship and there's no wind, 608 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: the ship is not moving. It's the it's the opposite 609 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: of the threat of the catastrophic wind. It's the threat 610 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: of no wind and a slow death out on the waters. 611 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: So in some of these cases there are accounts of 612 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: of of the sailors daring to make like small whistle 613 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: slight whistles, and the hopes that they'll stir up just 614 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: enough when to get them out of this predicament. Oh, 615 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 1: this is this is the scene from the horror movie 616 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: where a character is in such a jam that they 617 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: have no choice but to do do the dangerous ritual 618 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: that they have been warned against by a wise old person. Yeah, 619 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: so I thought this was an interesting paper in general, 620 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: this one by Christina hole Uh and she argues that 621 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: the sea is a place where old, otherwise long vanished 622 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: tensions between gods and religions tend to rise up again. 623 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: And part of the explanation here is that for many Pagans, 624 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: the sea not only had a god, but in a 625 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: in a sense kind of was a god. It was 626 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: like a living entity with thoughts and desires and whims, 627 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: and the sea brought both blessings and curses. It's you know, 628 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: it's the bringer of riches, but it can also destroy. 629 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: And for this reason, proba wably god's embodying the sea 630 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: are often depicted as temperamental, unpredictable, alternately generous and murderous. 631 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: And one interesting fact I've never heard before, but Whole 632 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: talks about how in uh in European seafaring traditions, for 633 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: hundreds of years, priests, nuns, and clergy have been considered 634 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: bad luck on the sea, like you don't want to 635 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: carry monks or nuns on board. And she even tells 636 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: the story of a sea voyage taken by a friend 637 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 1: of hers, which, when I think it was crossing the Atlantic, 638 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,359 Speaker 1: had some Trappist monks on board, and the sailors were 639 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: blaming the monks for the fact that there was bad 640 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: weather and the boat kept rolling and everybody was nauseated 641 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: and throwing up. So in many cases, you're on a 642 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: boat and you not only do you not want to 643 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: be carrying monks or nuns or whatever, you don't even 644 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: want to say a word like priest. So why would 645 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: that be You would think, okay, these are these are 646 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 1: Christian sailors, so they would at least probably think that 647 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: the clergy would be a good omen, not bad. But 648 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: the author here speculates as follows quote, these beliefs have 649 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: nothing to do with anti clerical feeling, and many who 650 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: hold them are devout Christians win on land. They probably 651 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: run back to that transition period when Paganism was slowly 652 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: giving way to Christianity, and many people, especially those who 653 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: like sailors, lead a dangerous life, had a foot in 654 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: both camps, acknowledging Christ on shore but taking care not 655 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: to offend the old gods when at sea. Moreover, whatever 656 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: was holy and consecrated was once regarded as a center 657 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: of mystical power, which was as likely to be dangerous 658 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,760 Speaker 1: as to be beneficent, and was therefore to be guarded against. 659 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: And so of course that's just an interpretation. We don't 660 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: know that's the reasoning here. It's always hard to get 661 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: at the ultimate reasoning for folk beliefs, but that seems 662 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: plausible to me, and I really like that there. It's 663 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: the idea that there's a power in it, and just 664 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: the fact that there's a power in it is dangerous. 665 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: Even if the priest is supposedly the good based on 666 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: your current religious beliefs, just the fact that the priesthood 667 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: is a center of power makes it potentially dangerous when 668 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: you're in a dangerous situation like the sea. And I 669 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: think you could maybe say the same thing of whistling itself, 670 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: that whistling is perceived as having a power, and therefore, 671 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: even if the power isn't always evil, it's just the 672 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: fact that there is the power in it that makes 673 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: it scary. Yeah. Yeah, all this on top of just 674 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 1: sort of the other idea of falling back into older 675 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: beliefs when things heat up, when you're in a dangerous place, 676 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: and of course again this is the ocean, it is 677 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: inherently dangerous, and therefore, yeah, you can imagine this this 678 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: not only this idea of like I'm gonna slide back 679 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: into over belief systems because I feel like there's heightened danger. 680 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: But I wonder too, you have if you have more 681 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 1: specific gods and traditions that you can fall back on. Whereas, 682 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: you know, the new Christianity it might not it might 683 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: not have any like specific things you can do to 684 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: avoid uh a watery death. But the old ways they 685 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: might have had particular rights, particular things you could do, 686 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: things you were not supposed to do, a path you 687 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: might follow through the uncertain which I think, you know, 688 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: I think some of us might be able to relate 689 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: to that in a modern sense too, Like it's you 690 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,879 Speaker 1: can have more of an atheistic mindset. Uh. When you're 691 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: on the airplane and there's no turbulence, but when the 692 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: turbulence kicks in, well, what can you do? You might 693 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: you might let a prayer slip out here there, just 694 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: because you know, if if there is nothing practically you 695 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: can do in that scenario beyond you know, the obvious 696 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: safety parameters. Uh, then then there are these other scripts 697 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: you can turn to, these other uh models of of 698 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: reality that at least give you, like somewhere to devote 699 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: your attention and and just from the to the standpoint 700 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,479 Speaker 1: of the ocean. I mean, we could easily come back 701 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 1: and discuss these greater length. You get their whole lists 702 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: of various bad had luck omens that include things like, 703 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: of course the albatross is tied up in some of these, 704 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 1: but also things like bananas, and then various interesting um 705 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: like touch based uh positive good luck, like everyone has 706 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: to touch the same part of the ship. Um that 707 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 1: sort of thing, collar touching. I think cats end up 708 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: playing a role in some of these. Uh. So yeah, 709 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: there there it's a whole interesting world of like the 710 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: heightened danger of the sea and some of the superstitious 711 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 1: approaches to survival on the sea. Apparently seeing a drowned 712 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: cat was one of the worst omens. She says that 713 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,720 Speaker 1: would sometimes make people just turn around and go back. 714 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: Oh wow oh. But to come back to whistling. Another 715 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: thing that Christina Holt says here is that it whistling 716 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,359 Speaker 1: is not just a locusts of superstition on the sea. 717 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: There seemed to be all kinds of fears about the 718 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: power of whistling even on land, right, and that she 719 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 1: gets into this idea again that whistling may attract the 720 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: attention of things that you don't want to attract. Uh 721 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: And and some of these relate to the sea, some 722 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: or more related to the land. She points that in 723 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: the East Anglian Thins sportsman out at night never whistled 724 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: to their dog because they might call up the lantern man, 725 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,240 Speaker 1: which would have been a type of willow the wisp 726 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: creature that you did not want attracted to your whereabouts. Yeah, 727 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: fire fiend. And you know what, I wonder if there 728 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: is just a general similar line of thinking, or if 729 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: it could actually be based in that biblical passage about 730 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: you know again, one of the oldest references to whistling 731 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: as a signal to like attract attention. Is God whistling 732 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: to attract the attention of a ravaging army that will 733 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: come and destroy you. Yeah uh now in terms of 734 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: this is an interesting one. This one was when I 735 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: read and Carol Rose and her Compendium of Monsters. She 736 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 1: points to the merman known as the Denny Mara that 737 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 1: was considered a threat in some case by by the 738 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: people of the Isle of Man, the Manx people. Generally 739 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: the man of the sea that anymara was generally more 740 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: benevolent than other forms of the myth because you have some, um, 741 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: you have some truly awful mirror creatures out there in 742 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,439 Speaker 1: the world of folklore. But this one in particular, though, 743 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: if you were to whistle, you could stir stir him 744 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,480 Speaker 1: up and cause excess wind. So on one hand, it's 745 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 1: kind of a supernatural creature whose attention you might get 746 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 1: through whistling. But also we get back into the basic 747 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: wind magic of the thing, like, be careful whistling. You're 748 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: toying with the wind magic, and you're at sea, and 749 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,359 Speaker 1: that's where the wind is particularly dangerous, and the least 750 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: little thing can stir it up. Hole mentions another omen 751 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: related to whistling and that is the omen of the 752 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: seven whistlers. And this from from her description, it sounds 753 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: basically like a particular chorus of bird song that would 754 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: spell disaster for those who heard it, particularly say, before 755 00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: a battle. Now, coming back at least briefly to us 756 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: to Kellenberg's to Kellenberg points to Roman writer Colomela, who 757 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: shares that whistling could be used to encourage oxen to drink, 758 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,280 Speaker 1: which which to Kellenberg, links to the possible sound similarities 759 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,479 Speaker 1: between whistling and flowing water. So again, instead of the wind, 760 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,399 Speaker 1: this time we're talking about water and we're talking about 761 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: the similarities of the sound here. Um, this idea seems 762 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: to have survived into English traditions concerning horses at least 763 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: into the sixteenth century. But wait, so if you're an 764 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: ancient Roman, you can whistle to make oxen drink. But 765 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,799 Speaker 1: will that make Oxen lie in your bed? I'm not 766 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: I'm not certain about that. Now. Uh, somebody who has 767 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 1: Roman history knowledge it, can you explain the ox in 768 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 1: the bed metaphor? To us? I want to know what 769 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: that means. It is interesting that to think about this 770 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: idea of like the whistle as a sound that is 771 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 1: imitating not birds or other organisms, but but imitating elemental 772 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: forces the wind or in this case, the water, and 773 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: therefore allowing just the average person to tap in to 774 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 1: those the streams of of terrific and at times, you know, 775 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: catastrophic energies. Well, I would also say the same thing 776 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 1: for hissing. Hissing kind of takes away your humanity. You're 777 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 1: you're you don't sound like a person speaking or expressing 778 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: an opinion. You sound like a hostile animal or even 779 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: a hostile landscape. M I guess sometimes there is hissing 780 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:31,839 Speaker 1: in theater, right, like a negative that's hiss at the villain. Yeah, yeah, 781 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: you you know, you boo hiss when the Yago comes 782 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: on stage or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, all right, we're looking 783 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 1: at the clock now and we realize that we're out 784 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,319 Speaker 1: of time for this episode. But oh we we have. 785 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: We still have a lot more. So we're gonna go 786 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,840 Speaker 1: to a four parter on whistling, but we've got some 787 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: great stuff to come back to. We're going to dive 788 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: back in a bit to some Eastern traditions of of 789 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,799 Speaker 1: magic and whistling. We're going to discuss some more examples 790 00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:00,160 Speaker 1: of whistling superstition, and folklore. Um, and then oh, we're 791 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: gonna get into the psychology of whistling a bit as well. 792 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 1: Does the spirit dwell within you if it does, come 793 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,960 Speaker 1: back and expel that breath one more time? Yeah? Is 794 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: it okay to whistle while you work? Should we be 795 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: listening to dwarves on this matter? To begin with? Will 796 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,880 Speaker 1: the bit'll all be discussed in the next episode in 797 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: the meantime, If you would like to check out other 798 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 1: episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, our core episodes 799 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,640 Speaker 1: publish on two season Thursdays, and the Stuff to Blow 800 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,879 Speaker 1: Your Mind podcast feed on Wednesday's. We do a short 801 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,120 Speaker 1: form artifact or monster fact on Monday's we do listener mail. 802 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 1: On Fridays, we set aside most serious concerns and just 803 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 1: focus on a weird film in a weird house cinema. 804 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth 805 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch 806 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other, 807 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to 808 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,760 Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact at Stuff 809 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your 810 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 1: Mind It's production of I Radio. For more podcasts. For 811 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,719 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, 812 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:15,280 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen me to your favorite shows.