1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio, Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 2: Catharine Savia, you're the EU Commission for Innovation, Startups and Research. 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us on Bloomberg today. 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: You've just released this Choose Europe plan. This is going 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 2: to flesh out the strategy to boost research within Europe. 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 2: There's half a billion dollars at stake. Care tuk us 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 2: through a little bit of the strategy in what you're 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 2: trying to achieve here. 9 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: The strategy is very simple. It's first Europe always to science, 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: and so we want science to choose Europe. So that's 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: mean that for Europe science should remain open and independent 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: and we respect scientific freedom. This is the first, so 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: to say Pewer, of the strategy, and the second is 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: of course investing in talent, and the third is like 15 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: accelerate and boost the innovation. So those are the three 16 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: focuses on this Choose Europe for Science for business, I 17 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: would say. 18 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 2: And so when you think about sort of half a 19 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: billion dollars being deployed to that end, how does that 20 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: money sort of productively spent in order to achieve those ends? 21 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: So this is the half a billion for the next 22 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: two and a half years until the end of this 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: programming period of the biggest actually program for research and 24 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: innovation in the world, which. 25 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 3: Is Horizon euro Program. 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: That's mean that we want to focus, of course on 27 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: the early career researchers. We actually work on the pile 28 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: choose Europe for Science for the early career researchers, and 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: then we have European Research Council, in which council the 30 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: scientists decide the priorities, the calls and choose the projects, 31 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: absolutely autonomous and independent of the politicians. And we want 32 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: to deploy extra to hundred and twenty million for the 33 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: actually two hundred and eighty million almost for the extra 34 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: support for researchers, which is a research council. It's small 35 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: focus on. 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 3: Really the best researchers with their teams in the world. 37 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,839 Speaker 2: And you say it's sort of value neutral in terms 38 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: of what the science is investigating, but there certainly are 39 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: objectives within the European Union to try to boost certain 40 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: sectors and innovate and things like that. So what sectors 41 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 2: are you trying to get attract more of those researches 42 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 2: and scientists in order to give your that competitive edge. 43 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: You know, you open research couns, so I want to 44 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: say it, but of course I'm going to talk about 45 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: the sectors later. The Eupan Research Council, it's really bottom 46 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: up driven. It's not so it's open for everybody. I mean, 47 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: it's curiosity driven projects. So this is actually the fundamental, 48 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: the basic research without which we can not he have 49 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: excellent innovasion and breakthrough technologies. So this is the for 50 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: the European Resource Council. But the four, the sectors who 51 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: have really common European interest, are really important for European competitiveness, 52 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: European economic security. It's like moles, so I'm not going 53 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: to surprise nobody's AI. Of course, life science is it's 54 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: a bi economy, it's a clean tech. So those sectors quantum, 55 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: which one we have focused in so European Innovation Council 56 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: in space and. 57 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: So one of those sort of sectors. Because I know 58 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: I was talking to a startup in Germany. They did 59 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: fusion right, they do sort of fusion right, and so 60 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: what they had is their German company, they had all 61 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: the research out of Munich. They're very sort of well 62 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: equipped on the science. But then Colorado, the state of Colorado, 63 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: came and gave them a grant for two hundred million 64 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 2: dollars and they went to go build a lab in 65 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: the United States. And this is one of the sort 66 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: of things that Mario Dragi brought up, is that many 67 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: of the unicorns within europe eventure really leave Europe. How 68 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: do you solve that problem? How do you keep European 69 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: innovation European. 70 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a really important part. As I said, 71 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: truth Europe, it's the third peer of truth. Europe is 72 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: accelerating innovation. We are excellent in really starting in research 73 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: and the startups. Actually Europe creates most startups compared to 74 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: the United States and China. Uh. But yeah, we have problems, 75 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: strug says in the scale phase. So there is not 76 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: big pan European vices yet. 77 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 3: But we're improving. 78 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: Actually, if you see the data is about the vices 79 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: in Europe in the last couple of years. Actually they 80 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: are we're improving the more investment in vcs. 81 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 3: What we work is a startup scales strategy. I'm very focused. 82 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: Actually I'm the first startup commissioner every in the history. 83 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: We are focusing on the startup scales strategy with the 84 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: four Peers, like talent always talent. 85 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 3: Talent. 86 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: Talent is important for innovation. Those are the three t's 87 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: a tee of innovation, the finance, which is how to 88 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: create a big funds enough together with a private sector 89 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: because public I think will be never enough. And access 90 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: to market which is crucial, which means like fast access 91 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: to the market, which means also public procurement, which we 92 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: have on top potential there. 93 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 3: And then we have regulatory. 94 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: Obstacles and of course access to infrastructure, which is also 95 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: very important for innovators. 96 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 2: And then you talk about the three t's in terms 97 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: of talent, there is potentially a great thing. 98 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 3: This is the biggest strength of Europe actually. 99 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: Right, well, there's potentially a bigger pool for the Europeans 100 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: to tap in the United States, where you've seen a 101 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 2: lot of research, for example, being cut to certain institutions 102 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 2: within the US. What kind of opportunity does that provide 103 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 2: to the United too, I would say to the European Union, 104 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 2: you know the potential brain drain from the United States. 105 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: Are you looking to capitalize on that other ways in 106 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 2: which you can tap into that talent pool that maybe looking. 107 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: For To be honest, yes, it's a big opportunity for Europe. 108 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: I think what happened. What happens is there is chance 109 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: for Europe because you know that finance have been stopped 110 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:17,679 Speaker 1: for researching health in vaccination for example, vaccines in science 111 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: link with the climate change some social science perspective. So 112 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: it's a big chance for Europe to attract some of 113 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: the best researchers and scientists from the United States to 114 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: come and work with their colleagues Europeans. And that's why 115 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: European research cons all these grunts that we provide. It 116 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: is an excellent chance for them to move here with 117 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: their teams. 118 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 2: And you get a sense that that process is a 119 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: little bit underway. Are you hearing from people? Is there 120 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: some kind I. 121 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: Have information from European universities that there is a big 122 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: interest from their collicues from the United States and they're 123 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: looking for how eventually they can revocate and move here. 124 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: And one of the issues I think also in the 125 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: United States versus Europe is that they also pay a 126 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 2: lot better in the United States. How do you how 127 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 2: do you solve this in terms of the private sector. 128 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 3: I don't know. 129 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: Did some maybe some university they pay more, but not 130 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: always is about the money only if you are not 131 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: allowed to read to research. 132 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 3: Money doesn't matter that much because you actually have to 133 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 3: stop your project high prices. 134 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's really freedom, it's matters, social condition matters. 135 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,119 Speaker 1: That's why I always start with the first actually pure 136 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: trues Europe is that for Europe, science matter. For Europe, 137 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: science has to remain open, independent, and scientists have to 138 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: have a freedom for research. 139 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: And I think that another thing that I've observed in 140 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: Europe is that you also have a lot of very 141 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: sort of impressive academic institutions, a lot of impressive research, 142 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: huge amounts of research, but you don't see that translate 143 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 2: as often into the private sector, I think, as you 144 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:58,559 Speaker 2: do in the United States. How do you get things 145 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 2: to move from the sort of sheerly academic research into 146 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: something that can be product terrivity driven, profit driven and 147 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: reallygious companies to Within Europe. 148 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, we have these. 149 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: I would say challenges that not very often the really 150 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: excellent universities and research organization are working with the private sector. 151 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 3: But we have more and more who do this. 152 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: And for example, I'm going I'm going to mention again Horizon, 153 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: which is actually almost half of the funds from Horizon 154 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: Europe it's a cooperative research which means academia and private sector, 155 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: traditional industries and public institutions work together to find solution 156 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: global challenges. So we have really huge progress in that 157 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: direction as well. So it's a big part of our program. 158 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: But it's not only the European funds. I see more 159 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: and more research organization who work very close with the 160 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: private companies. I also meet a lot of traditional big 161 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: organization of traditional European industry strong industries and they also 162 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 1: want to invest and work together. They also also want 163 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: to invest in the European startups. They also want to 164 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: invest in European research organizations. 165 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 3: So we are moving in the right direction. 166 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: One of the seconds we have the instruments actually, as 167 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: I mentioned, is Horizon Europe program, but we also Digital 168 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 1: Europe and other partnership together academia and private sector. 169 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 2: And one of the industries that is attracting a huge 170 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: volume of capital within Europe is the defense sector. I 171 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 2: wonder if there is some kind of partnership availab because 172 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 2: obviously a lot of innovation does sometimes you know, come 173 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 2: from the defense sector into other applications. There are ways 174 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 2: in which these two can work together as. 175 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: A definitely definitely and they should work together. 176 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 2: Some of these ones would be restricted away from. 177 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: The Horizon as Horizon for example, Horizon Europe is only 178 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: civilian research. But in European Innovation Council, this is one 179 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: of the pewers of Horizon Europe, which is innovation focused 180 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: on innovation and the startups UH and the European Innovation 181 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: Council Accelerator. We did propose this is the first omnibles 182 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: of defense to open it for door use and defense research. 183 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: And the same is like a step which is an 184 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: investment in equity in startups. 185 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 3: Of strategic interests. 186 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: We want to open also for do oils and defense 187 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: because in the modern research so everything can have a 188 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: due application civilian and research. 189 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 3: I think it's a huge potential. 190 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 2: Yes, and so if we speak a year from now, 191 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 2: what is going to be your sort of metrics of 192 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 2: success in terms of having launched successfully and kind of 193 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: what would you like to see happen a year from now, from. 194 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 3: Here from now, okay, UH Europe. 195 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: To preserve his first place of attracting talents to be 196 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: actually the continent, the best educated continent. We have UH 197 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: one fourth of the global researchers actually in European Union, 198 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: living and working in European Union, and even to attract 199 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: more and more. 200 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 3: But my goal is really to. 201 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: Really to shorten, to shorten the period from them discovery 202 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: to the market to be really easy if you are 203 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: no mata, innovative or a well established or young company, 204 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: if you want to expand in other and other member states, 205 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: to happen really easily. So this is I think the 206 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: metrics of sex to happen in less than one year 207 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: to be able to operate in a big single market.